subtlety

[small juniper]

feel like mark could just be made a buff on the player or

fixes it all

[alpine wraith]

so you have energy or sht to get cps back and use evis to get mark back

[swift tinsel]

ds aoe shit is still shit

[left ledge]

Still doesn’t fix DN

[alpine wraith]

we wish it was on the player

[left ledge]

Let’s say you reach DN in aoe

You MUST evis

[pliant topaz]

yeah but that would go against the "fantasy " of it

[alpine wraith]

you can cancelaura it

[pliant topaz]

blizzs design is fantasy > gameplay

[alpine wraith]

actually if you mess up it is better to do it

[left ledge]

Or sure cancelaura

[small juniper]

wasnt it a gain to not consume dn in aoe

[left ledge]

LOL

[small juniper]

or is that changed

[alpine wraith]

ideally you strike on 1-2 marks

[pliant topaz]

still isnt

cancel aura dn

[alpine wraith]

but if you mess up and shadowcraft on 2

[pliant topaz]

in aoe

[alpine wraith]

you cancel aura

then strike to get mark back

[left ledge]

It’s just all these scenarios

Make DS feel like shit

[pliant topaz]

i mean ds is shit

[alpine wraith]

i mean most people wont play ideally

[pliant topaz]

its dogshit

design

[alpine wraith]

so they will do even less dmg

[pliant topaz]

its disgusting and legit rude to even mak eit

[alpine wraith]

like try it

this feels bad this plays bad

this does no dmg

then they go trickster and dont look back

[pliant topaz]

every single thing in there is a tuning knob for a sub ability

rupture buff

builder buff

finisher buff

aa buff

[swift tinsel]

hunt them down existing is just insulting

[small juniper]

where did it all go wrong

sub was the best man

[alpine wraith]

fatal intent is worse

[small juniper]

and now its doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooog shit

[swift tinsel]

fatal is its own joke lol

[alpine wraith]

actually mark was not as bad when TWW began

but they krangled it to appeal to assa

[pliant topaz]

????

[alpine wraith]

then never fixed it for sub too

[pliant topaz]

mark didnt even funciton for sub what

u dont remember getting 9 stacks??

[alpine wraith]

that was on beta

not TWW release

[pliant topaz]

okay but it was litearlly fine for 5 days

[alpine wraith]

im talking about them fixing the thing for assa but leaving sub fucked

[pliant topaz]

then they introduced a bug

they couldnt solve

called it a feature

[alpine wraith]

and gave up

[pliant topaz]

and said here u go sin

fuck you sub

[vale pine]

the gameplay is still fun on trickster, its just tuned lower and has less options due to a lack of talent variety

[small juniper]

no it isnt fun fuu

not at all

its not fun enough to be fun when u do 0 damage

[vale pine]

i mean thats tuning

[alpine wraith]

i dont enjoy all my dmg being split either or how they bastardized FW

and the application of it

[vale pine]

blizz was extrmeely careful to not buff subtlety to do more damage than the other 2 specs

[alpine wraith]

like i would not even mind if they went back to no FW outside strike

[vale pine]

so they wanted it to be the "weaker" option

[alpine wraith]

and killed shadowed

[vale pine]

just close the gap a little

The problem just is the baseline design of sub

its punishing

[alpine wraith]

and annoying

never forget that

[vale pine]

it does not compete in aoe with other specs

[alpine wraith]

getting the cdr is annoying

[vale pine]

it does not offer execute

[alpine wraith]

getting FW/fazed is annoying

[small juniper]

they should just go back to 1 min dance and higher dmg outside dance

then it would be more noob friendly too

[alpine wraith]

you lose more players when things are annoying

[pliant topaz]

all im saying is one day on queen, i said alright i got RS bug, and i got the dogshit coup dash, and getting jack shit every tier, losing dust. im done. then they removed coup dash and buffed sub

we need one more CF to quit for more bug fixes

[vale pine]

^^

[small juniper]

every single rogue that becomes a cf quits to play my little pony or something

[pliant topaz]

idk man im playing league and ffxiv

[alpine wraith]

i got demoted so they killed dust

[small juniper]

ffxiv same thing

[swift tinsel]

make me green I'll quit on the spot

[pliant topaz]

im vibing

[alpine wraith]

makes sense

[vale pine]

like the design above would be fine

[pliant topaz]

ill let u know. im still levle 50 LOL

[vale pine]

if you have more area for mistakes

[ebon tiger]

wait hold up we get a full rework if all cf quit?

[pliant topaz]

no

just bug fixes

[vale pine]

it just means you need to also do more damage if you play well

its just

[alpine wraith]

there are 0 cf right now playing sub

[vale pine]

blizz is hessitant to do that

[alpine wraith]

apart from eleem

[lucid jackal]

Not me

I'm playing sub rn

[alpine wraith]

but that will change on next patch

oh true and guy

[lucid jackal]

I love rogue rn

[alpine wraith]

the rise of sub

[vale pine]

in fact they rather let sub be 5% behind other rogue specs while keeping it punishing

[alpine wraith]

believe

[lucid jackal]

I think legit rogue is in like, the most fun gameplay state its been in a long time

[alpine wraith]

they will forget to nerf us first week

[vale pine]

which makes no sense, but is why it does not feel "good" to play the spec

[alpine wraith]

after not looking at tier set being like 20% again

[lucid jackal]

there are a lot of issues, with a lot of the stuff we don't play RN due to tuning, thankfully

But the actual gameplay of all 3 rogue specs I've been super enjoying this expac

[small juniper]

yeah like sub

😄

[alpine wraith]

yea rogue is fun just cant forget all the krangled things

[lucid jackal]

Sub is good in current raid

[alpine wraith]

not like we hate rogue we want it to be better

[lucid jackal]

Post buff anyway

[small juniper]

good compared to fucking what

[alpine wraith]

we smashed aug

take that

[lucid jackal]

The other rogue specs

[swift tinsel]

my issues with sub are almost entirely unrelated to gameplay outside its aoe

[lucid jackal]

U play 1 rogue

the question is which do u play

[alpine wraith]

all rogue specs are kinda fine rn

once again

shining in their mediocrity

[lucid jackal]

Rogue isn't dev/mm but its like, good

[swift tinsel]

I don't really play the other two but I don't actively hate them

[small juniper]

havent played outlaw

[alpine wraith]

at least we wont get nerfed

[small juniper]

but assa feels a lot better than sub atm

[lucid jackal]

numbers or vibes?

[small juniper]

numbers

[alpine wraith]

it is getting a bit behind because of timers

but it was better before buff yea on mug at least

[vale pine]

assasisantion has little punishment for mistakes

[alpine wraith]

now it is whatever

[small juniper]

sub is fun but i cannot stand being below 8th on the meter

[swift tinsel]

Sub's bongo burst is still crazy fun to execute well

[lucid jackal]

We private log but I am doing a lot of damage on sub rn

[vale pine]

has funnel, has execute and is very easy to play

[lucid jackal]

more than I do on sin, we also sell a lot so

[alpine wraith]

im around 10th even on good pulls

[small juniper]

we do too

and maybe i suffer from shit kill timers

[alpine wraith]

but we also have elite classes most of the time up there

[small juniper]

most bosses this week

we killed just as my cds came up

so i got like 1 evis in cds off

then boss died

wasnt great

[alpine wraith]

like uhdk dev hunter

[tepid trellis]

love being 8th getting a 99 while a hunter being 2nd/3rd is doing an 85 percentile

[small juniper]

ye

[tepid trellis]

very fun

[small juniper]

i should just raid on hunter and warrior instead of rogue

mm hunter is fun

[bleak night]

mm is fun

[alpine wraith]

yea mm hunter is cool

[warm marlin]

sub is good in raid

[bleak night]

if my guild didnt already have two hunters i'd consider it

[alpine wraith]

more power to them fuck bm

my guild has 3

XD

or well had 1 rerolled i think

[swift tinsel]

I played ranged for prog in season 1 and I knew the whole time it wasn't for me

[vale pine]

hunter being 2nd/3rd is doing an 85 percentile while using the one button rotation macro.
fixed it for you

[alpine wraith]

to dev

[swift tinsel]

melee gang

[left ledge]

Just saying if atrophic didn’t exist you’d see quite a few guilds just not even care about a rogue

[small juniper]

i disagree

[alpine wraith]

even with atro we are not omegabenched+

[small juniper]

its not good compared to the other good specs

[alpine wraith]

because rogue players are made diff

[tepid trellis]

sub is good if your guild is letting you pad AoE

[alpine wraith]

the smartest most handsome

[small juniper]

bro on rik

[alpine wraith]

and better equipped

[small juniper]

barrels are gone in 0.5

[bleak night]

real

[small juniper]

we have 2 devs

[tepid trellis]

if everybody blasts AoE you wont do good

[bleak night]

rogue players are just built diff

[small juniper]

and they both hold shit

[vale pine]

subtlety can hold up because you can pad in logs

its undertuned

but tuned well enough to not be last on wcl

[swift tinsel]

I killed ranged barrels on rik, would step barrel blast step back

[left ledge]

Yeah I mean I have to time sectec to the fucking microsecond to do damage

[swift tinsel]

bc ranged cba to do their own

[alpine wraith]

you have to sec tech as they spawn so it hits on spawn

[vale pine]

and tuned good enough to make it playable for people who

well idk who subtelty is designed for atm

[honest basin]

I enjoy the gameplay of sub a lot. Really my biggest pain point with it currently is all the useless nodes and weird fucky interactions, and god do I hate find weakness.

[vale pine]

you are clearly ment to play assassiantion atm in all content

[alpine wraith]

sub is just annoying to do good with

[left ledge]

Meanwhile they fucking brain off press anything and it explodes in an atomic aoe

[alpine wraith]

like the spec plays fine but if you want to min max

and rng fucks you

unluck

even on opener

withour pre disorienting

getting 2 coups or not

[pliant topaz]

well the thing is, if u have 20 specs, 5 are gonna be great, 10 average, 5 awful

[alpine wraith]

like sure on sims doing it 100000 times it kinda averages out

[pliant topaz]

sometiems u gotta be awful sometimes u gotta be average sometimes great

[alpine wraith]

but if you are like me and never hit

[left ledge]

Sims are a fucking lie

[alpine wraith]

you go AAaaAAaaaAAaAaA

[honest basin]

That's something the other rogue in my guild and I talk about a lot. Blizz really pushes assassination very hard as "the spec" of rogue you should play and it's kinda cringe.

[left ledge]

My sim somehow always gets good coups in cds and 8 winning streak

[alpine wraith]

they are not a lie just we dont play as much as sims

[left ledge]

I get fuck all

[alpine wraith]

maybe we need to boost M in 10 chars

[tepid trellis]

not true, if you actively balance out of raid metrics how the raid design is, but they are being lazy with it

[alpine wraith]

to get the lucky pull

[small juniper]

ok hear me out

but

how hard can it be to do aura buffs

every week

or every 2 weeks

[tepid trellis]

if they wanted to

[left ledge]

It’s not

[small juniper]

based on performance

[alpine wraith]

they have been doing it

but forgot sub

[tepid trellis]

they can balance the classes to be within 5%

[alpine wraith]

then remembered

[tepid trellis]

after a few weeks

[swift tinsel]

they remembered too hard

[pliant topaz]

its just deminishing returns, once youre within 5% it just gets a lot harder to make the balance closer. u know

[swift tinsel]

and buffed us twice lol

for a day

[pliant topaz]

like easier going from 50-> 5 than 5-> 2

[alpine wraith]

2 days almost

[tepid trellis]

then something is no longer awful

[small juniper]

ye if u didnt get good logs in the 10% week

u are just fucked

or

did htey fix it on logs

[alpine wraith]

nah we got 2 weeks of extra raid buffs

[warm marlin]

[alpine wraith]

those logs are long gone

[pliant topaz]

depends on how u define awful though. if its 5%then the bottom 5% below are awful. if the benchmark is 2% then bottom 2% behind are awful

[alpine wraith]

and in 1 week we get another one

[pliant topaz]

to them if youre 5% behind theyre okay with that

[tepid trellis]

if something is close enough in value its not fcking awful

cmon

its not like Dev vs aug

[pliant topaz]

yeah but then they gotta fix for aoe/ single target

burst pad

kill timers

spread cleave

etc

its too much work

[tepid trellis]

as i said

[small juniper]

its their job

[tepid trellis]

they can

[left ledge]

Have different kinds of encounters?

[tepid trellis]

if they want to

[brittle plinth]

Sub is fun to play, so they did something right.

[small juniper]

i think if they did it properly it would be different classes doing well on different fights

and not just dev on top

every fight

[pliant topaz]

bro says their job. bro idk what their job even is. like the class team does tuning + talent tree design + stuff like that. but they put out like 4 lines of work per 4 months.

[brittle plinth]

It's a matter of tuning for your details and lumberjack site

[pliant topaz]

idk what the fuck theyre doing

like u go to office

what do u do for 8 hours

[alpine wraith]

i mean i always wonder

[pliant topaz]

for 4 months

that results in 2 specs getting 3 lines

[alpine wraith]

but then i remember game dev is never performance based or has KPIs

[small juniper]

they probably do a lot of teambuilding exercises

[alpine wraith]

so you can just

not do things

[small juniper]

seen videos of twitter and google employees

im sure blizzard is the same

[vale pine]

next tier will be interesting when Assassiantion gets the same niche subtlety had in 10.2.
Something people labeled as completely busted and op. (especially from other specs)
The ability to adjust your cooldown timing to boss fights.
One thing to keep in mind is assassinaiton keeps other benefits it has over subtlety in addition to this like execute, better haste scaling, actual funnel, stronger aoe, ...

[pliant topaz]

a lot of those got laid off. it was a covid thing

[alpine wraith]

maybe they are stunlocked in teams calls

[brittle plinth]

I'm sure those videos are honest and not based on a bias or anything

:p

[pliant topaz]

most people working at big tech are not big happy like that

they are actually giga working

my friends at amazon get off work, go hom,e work more

[alpine wraith]

keep in mind we gotta treat our poor devs well

likely not their fault they get bad directions too

but we never know

until someone breaks and leaks

wtf is happening

[pliant topaz]

its a blizz specific thing that seems like barely any output is being shown (atleast for that team - idk maybe that teams also designing helmets or w/e but i doubt it)

my friend at google, works legit 11 hours a day

[alpine wraith]

even their infraestructure team is asleep

[brittle plinth]

There is some project manager with a backlog that is prioritizing metrics that sub isn't hitting

Easy as that

[lucid jackal]

I mean wow is a giant video game, shit like housing is probably taking up a lot of man power

[pliant topaz]

I work at a hedge fund not a big tech, but we are an HFT fund with a lot of tech, still i work sometimes 55-60 hours a week

[lucid jackal]

A lot of wow systems are made a long time in advance

[alpine wraith]

i mean we have worked with companies 10x the size of blizz

that has less fat

or well try to have less fat

we never know with MS now

steering ships somewhere takes time

[pliant topaz]

thats not how these work though. u dont just get jimmy who designs helmets and say okay now go fix the engine.

[alpine wraith]

that is why the art team is always a banger

[pliant topaz]

its the class design team that their output seems no where to be found

[alpine wraith]

and music too tbh

[bleak night]

art team always carries

[alpine wraith]

they just have trolls on design and cant escape

[honest basin]

Yeah, for me at least I'm gonna try to make sub work as much as I can since I prefer it but I already have an inkling that the last 2/3 bosses will be sin territory again :/

[alpine wraith]

or have tried and failed

that also happens

[ionic thorn]

it's not unlikely that their class design team is made up of people who have other roles in the company

[alpine wraith]

also likely people with the credentials to work on something like WoW

[lucid jackal]

Wow doesn't have individual class designers that make 1 spec and thats the teams job

[alpine wraith]

just dont want to work there

that also does not help

[lucid jackal]

So when "Rogue gets 2 lines of text" its not like realz sits there twiddling his thumbs all day doing nothing lol

[alpine wraith]

or already worked but left

that is the problem

if the implementation of routing fails on some nodes

i get assblasted

and fined

if some "team" messes up class balance

well idk

[swift tinsel]

they get a sword

[alpine wraith]

maybe a mug with 25% less coffe

like there is no accountability

[idle aurora]

lol yall are making me not want to go sub next season

[alpine wraith]

sub will be fine

in numbers for sure

[idle aurora]

The doomscrolling is real

[bleak night]

its ok ive seen like 3 damage amps so far

[swift tinsel]

you get the "we want to do better next time"

[bleak night]

sub season for sure

[swift tinsel]

ad nauseum

[alpine wraith]

i mean i do understand them somehow

[small juniper]

nah sub will be good in heroic week cus u got a weapon early

[alpine wraith]

getting actual people wanting to work on game design

[small juniper]

and then u get a 10% nerf

[alpine wraith]

then on blizz then on wow

[left ledge]

Damage amps don’t necessarily mean anything for sub anymore

[alpine wraith]

is like filtering 99%

[small juniper]

and u can sit there until week 14 farm where u get a 5% buff to barely scrape past aug

[alpine wraith]

of devs

[left ledge]

They’re good but like every other spec can do the same shit

[swift tinsel]

plus their reputation as a company isn't stellar

[alpine wraith]

yea glassdoor is kinda

demonic

on their tells

[lucid jackal]

What

[alpine wraith]

maybe MS can allocate some more people

[swift tinsel]

gotta get someone to put the loot boxes in

so I could see it

[left ledge]

#subtlety message

[alpine wraith]

man if wow had mtx lootboxes

[idle aurora]

lol I’m giving up on rogue and just going feral the rogue that is bendy enough to clean itself.

[alpine wraith]

suddenly 100x money and they can finally reinvest in the game

[warm marlin]

truly why sub is the best spec in the game on rookery last boss right

other than arcane

[alpine wraith]

instead of having teams of 4 people doing 13 classes blance

[lucid jackal]

This is so painfully wrong though

[bleak night]

reroll to feral then get scammed into playing boomkin

[lucid jackal]

I don't understand how some of you play this game all day and you say shit like this

[bleak night]

its a slippery slope

[swift tinsel]

this or animations/tints

[left ledge]

You’re right, if only there was a damage amp boss in the current raid

[bleak night]

careful friend

[alpine wraith]

bro new animations for skills

[idle aurora]

lol true

[swift tinsel]

wouldgo SO hard

[alpine wraith]

would sponsor a new game alone

[left ledge]

Guys

IF ONLY

IF ONLY

[pliant topaz]

yes but as far as ive been told what their other roles are, it seems very very small in terms of output. Like i know 4 different things theyre responsible for. then I see the utput im looking for those 4 things and im like woah nothings being done

[left ledge]

We had an amp in current raid

Man

Wouldn’t that be crazy

[alpine wraith]

like we are adults we want shiny things

[small juniper]

i mean hes not entirely wrong, but ye dmg amp is rly big for sub

but its also rly big for other classes

[lucid jackal]

Hes insanelyw rong

[swift tinsel]

I wanna be able to add purple shaders like diablo

[left ledge]

Wouldn’t it be insane guys

[small juniper]

u think sub is the best spec for dmg amps?

[warm marlin]

you say this but bandit doesnt count

[left ledge]

Guy is insanely right

[warm marlin]

its a 10% amp with like a 60% uptime

[left ledge]

Vexie

?

[lucid jackal]

Vexie

[warm marlin]

oh ya

hmm

well that one is just cursed

[left ledge]

Oh yeah omegalul guys

[alpine wraith]

sub is not bad on amps but for it to be stellar they need to be a bit diff

[vale pine]

I mean, it will just comes down to how much better subtlety is in general. It might offer higher burst and can switch targets more freely. I am still a bit concerned because the 90 sec niche was intentionally selected to allow specs to shine in certain areas.

The amount of niches specs have now can vary a lot depending on how much time was spend on the tree, specs with a lot of time put into them usually have multiple niches and a high amount of talent options to select from.

This is only relevant if everyone is tuned simialrly (within like 3-5% of each other), so its still the old tuning discussion.

[warm marlin]

its too long + too late

[left ledge]

Valid example exists omegalul

[bleak night]

vexie damage amp is long as fuck, the ones coming up are like 15 seconds

[small juniper]

200% for 15 sec ye

[bleak night]

significantly better for sub

[small juniper]

supposedly

[left ledge]

Ok and since when does damage amp mean it’s the second coming of amirdrassil???

[lucid jackal]

200% for 15 seconds is a bit better for sub thant he vexie phase

[small juniper]

but why wouldnt u just bring dev evokers

they do more

[left ledge]

Or mm hunters

[jaunty heath]

I like this CD style of rogue, but I'ma say it, I also really liked it when we always had damage. And our CDs were pretty much fake

[small juniper]

mm hunters is too rng for prog

[bleak night]

because lizards cant transmog

[lucid jackal]

How many amp phases are these bosses going to have?

[bleak night]

so why would you bring them

[lucid jackal]

Sub bursts harder than MM does outside of lust

[warm marlin]

sub does similar burst to those specs in 15s windows

[small juniper]

200% 15 sec is once on demensius i think

[warm marlin]

or better

[lucid jackal]

Same as dev

[alpine wraith]

as sub you can prepare more resources maybe

we shall see

[lucid jackal]

Desptie sub "being mid" sub is one of the highest burst specs in the entire game

[alpine wraith]

but dev is kinda silly

[lucid jackal]

Its like top 3-5

[alpine wraith]

have you seen their tier set

XD

[bleak night]

dev is definitely a silly spec

theres no denying that

[small juniper]

it depends when the amp phase is

cus ive heard its start of p2

[lucid jackal]

Also true

[small juniper]

so imagine u land

[idle aurora]

I mean you can always make the argument of pick number 1 and number 2 top dmg class if you are not one of them xD

[small juniper]

and it insta starts

[bleak night]

dragons go hard as fuck

[jaunty heath]

Make sub benefit from haste

[lucid jackal]

It depends on where you lust as well

[left ledge]

So it’s also true but my statement is insanely wrong

Ok

[lucid jackal]

You are just an idiot thats the issue

[left ledge]

Good to know how rogue is handled

[vale pine]

subtlety can spec into talents to increase burst even

[small juniper]

ur statement isnt wrong but it also is

dmg amps matter for sub ofc

but other specs are good at it too

[lucid jackal]

Again, despite sub "being mid" sub is one of the strongest burst specs in the game

[swift tinsel]

saw these too and laughed

[lucid jackal]

It bursts slightly worse than MM does, and thats MM IN LUST

[swift tinsel]

engulf is already a nuke

[left ledge]

Ofc that’s why I followed it up with what I said

[lucid jackal]

And MM gains A LOT from lust compared to sub

[small juniper]

mm burst is rng tho

[alpine wraith]

nothing to see here just engulf buffing dots by 120% and a 400% ao nuke

[warm marlin]

we literally had this discussion the other day

[swift tinsel]

now their nuke got a nuke attached

[warm marlin]

and went to simc

[small juniper]

i have bursts of up to 11 mil on mm hunter

and other pulls u do 5 mil burst

[warm marlin]

to see that sub is the highest burst spec in the game outside of lust

[ionic thorn]

that would be nice then it and ouitlaw could at least share stats

[small juniper]

yeah thats true

[ionic thorn]

the most tilting thing about playing a class is when all 3 specs have different stat wants

[idle aurora]

My guild has asked me to play sub next season for m+ cause we have some huge aoe burners and assassin is trash at single target boss fights. Unless I play single target spec which is wildly unfun

[left ledge]

I don’t understand how being the highest burst spec outside of lust does anything for us though? If timings are shit it doesn’t matter? Our damage fucking falls off a cliff afterwards too

I don’t get that logic

[small juniper]

it depends how relevant the dmg during the amp phase is

if sub is played or not

[warm marlin]

if its a damage amp you just hold

[pliant topaz]

it matter for first 2 weeks if youre a top 50 guild (2 weeks only, and a big maybe)

then it doesnt

[swift tinsel]

if a certain haste threshold removed an auto from shadowcraft requirement

[warm marlin]

especially since you play spymaster

[alpine wraith]

sub will be quite cool to plan things around with new spymaster

inb4 it gets a 60% nerf

[left ledge]

I mean sure it COULD skyrocket sub on the fight

[swift tinsel]

yeah that's what I'm waiting for lol

[left ledge]

But it also could be completely neutral

[swift tinsel]

I do like playing around building a juiced 3min flag

with 55k agi going into it

[alpine wraith]

you can even kinda double trinket it

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[alpine wraith]

we may be able to prep a triple dance

[swift tinsel]

lily on pull and first flag

[small juniper]

what was the last trinket we had that decreased per ability

[alpine wraith]

and use blade s a bit later

[lucid jackal]

its 100% a huge boon its just how big of a boon is it vs raw tuning

[small juniper]

it was in df

and u used it on sectec

[alpine wraith]

irideus

[small juniper]

no

it was a raid trinket

[alpine wraith]

yea it was that one was there another?

[small juniper]

it was 1 every1 played

maybe it was just ashes

[alpine wraith]

oh ashes

yea it was that one

[small juniper]

cus it wouldnt last

[alpine wraith]

but it was per time not ability

[small juniper]

till 2nd sectec

ye time

ok

[swift tinsel]

I just set Ding reminders for that kind of thing

[lucid jackal]

Heres MM on sprocket

[bleak night]

i need to try mm on the ptr

[lucid jackal]

Here is sub on sprocket

[bleak night]

they seem sick

[lucid jackal]

Both are bursting for 12m, the difference is sub is bursting for 12m every singlet CD

This can very easily matter in a raid encounter

Didn't end up mattering much in undermine, this tier has a lot of amp phases and shields

It can very easily matter a lot, and be a huge boon that you can just "have the rogue do this job"

[warm marlin]

killing 20s faster here also pushes it to near top all logs sprocket

[leaden prairie]

waht do you play as trinket

cause

[lucid jackal]

Yeah but sub is bad

[leaden prairie]

this does nothing on pull right

[lucid jackal]

Its spymaster

[leaden prairie]

ye

but thats the only "1min30" trinket right

[lucid jackal]

It does proc damage the entire pull, and then the on use is big burst

[warm marlin]

seemed fine to just macro it to blades

[lucid jackal]

U could also just use it as a hoc yeah

[leaden prairie]

but the thing is you have nothing on poull tho

[lucid jackal]

Ya

[warm marlin]

ye ur pull is cooked

[leaden prairie]

ye idk

that seems a bit cooked

im

[warm marlin]

there's a dungeon one that's hoc lite

[swift tinsel]

that's why I've been double on use

with ^

[warm marlin]

from eco dome

[lucid jackal]

You could do 1:30 the entire fight

and then use spymaster on last blades of the fight

and drop a bomb

[warm marlin]

if you end up holding flag for 15-20s for dmg amps spymaster also goated macro trinket

[swift tinsel]

iirc its like 11-14k agi if you use it ~30sec in

[small juniper]

nice u can backstab for 30 seconds

[alpine wraith]

even if it does not much on pull you still use it before second or third sec tech

then every 1;30

[swift tinsel]

but its pretty easy to game with a 1.5min trinket in other slot to have a giga 3min

with just a couple stacks it beats lily

[alpine wraith]

you can also plan around yea

[swift tinsel]

plus the damage is nice

just from having it equipped

[alpine wraith]

can even use lily on pull then prism on 1:30 lily on a double dance in between then nether again

or just prism all the time and the op execute trink

depending on fight

that one migth also get balanced

[swift tinsel]

yeah thats the setup I'm thinking if I don't go double use

it wasn't doing crazy dam and it was skewed bc dummies sit at 1hp

[alpine wraith]

can even use prism and PVP trink for some funny things

[swift tinsel]

for a while

but theres lily, execute, pacemaker/antenna

decent options

haven't tried too many others yet

[alpine wraith]

can use pvp trink on double dances in between 1;30 mins and on pull

or lily too even maybe

[swift tinsel]

I've been prisming the dance right out of cd's but haven't played with too much beyond the 3min

[alpine wraith]

we might have 4 or 5 trinks to shuffle around

[swift tinsel]

yeah which is kinda cool

[leaden prairie]

there is a 1min30 trinket ?

[swift tinsel]

annoying to collect them all

[leaden prairie]

there isnt no ?

[swift tinsel]

from Ecodome

check journal

[alpine wraith]

new dungeon trink

[leaden prairie]

ah m+

ok

thats hwy i dont have it

[swift tinsel]

its agi/int with mastery

[honest basin]

Yeah

^

[leaden prairie]

sub is gonna be so good on this boss

1min30 is perfect

[bleak night]

https://tenor.com/view/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther-tchalla-bruce-gif-16558003

sub is doomed

[leaden prairie]

bro

its legit

[honest basin]

True

[leaden prairie]

the perfect sub boss scenario

[bleak night]

no positivity

[warm marlin]

u prob want to pool sht and coup a bit more for that btw

[honest basin]

Sub is cooked

[leaden prairie]

1min30 add phase

followed by 1min30 amp phase

[swift tinsel]

I might just always roll lily and then prism the dance after

[leaden prairie]

[honest basin]

That's so hot

[swift tinsel]

need to fuck around more

[leaden prairie]

do i change talents on ptr

or

im just on normal raid from live rn

[swift tinsel]

only thing I noticed was tfd feeling bigger

[leaden prairie]

ye well

[north schooner]

yeah you need PV

[leaden prairie]

cant play tfd if i dont have a trinket on pull

xd

[warm marlin]

you can try this

[swift tinsel]

just play hoc is the same as lily

[leaden prairie]

so like

[warm marlin]

is what i had the best results with

[leaden prairie]

double on use with the trinket

and you just use the trinket

once in the fight

in the damage amp

[warm marlin]

ye if its 3min amp u def hold it

[swift tinsel]

what i've been playing with

is 1.5min on pull

prism at 30sec

1.5min on next flag

then prism is at 15 stacks for 3min flag

[warm marlin]

probably better to just prism at 20s ish when you can imo

[swift tinsel]

but you can send prism early whenever it makes sense to

[warm marlin]

and just overcap a stack

[swift tinsel]

yeah that's like that latest you can send is 30

to have it maxed

so like 20-30 is perf

[alpine wraith]

if you tweak it a little that is just kinda when third dance comes

[swift tinsel]

yeah that's what I anchor it to

and it maxes like 2-4 seconds before 3min flag

[leaden prairie]

nvm

bro

boss phase via hp %

[swift tinsel]

ah rip

[leaden prairie]

so its perfect

but not perfect

cause you pahse 10s earlier

and you are the worse spewc in the game

:)

i love hp based phasing

we wont stop dps !

[warm marlin]

💀

[leaden prairie]

surely

[warm marlin]

stop dps dmg amp boss with flying downtime surely outlaw playable

[leaden prairie]

[hollow spear]

Looking forward to seeing what the sim will reveal

[twilit phoenix]

No goremaw’s bite?

[warm marlin]

fk no

[twilit phoenix]

Unfortunately

[sly shore]

@leaden prairieoutlaw tier?

boss phases at 50% or 01:55

nexus-king, that is

damage amp 4 mins

[leaden prairie]

idk

this boss looks very good for sub

if

you phase on sub timers

otherwise

gg

might aswell delete spec

[sly shore]

damage amperoo no sub timer

but fine I guess

[alpine wraith]

you can make any timer a sub timer with prism kinda

[sly shore]

but in reality

rogue fucking sucks rn

[alpine wraith]

rogue is just in the middle

but then you see the other tier sets

[runic trail]

Too institutionalised to play anything else

I'm just here

[alpine wraith]

and then idk chief

[frail kindle]

thats kinda cracked

[brittle plinth]

Protection must be an error there ya?

They dont have slayer or raging blow 😛

good ol notes

[hazy breach]

Fucking love execute man

Overpower super stinky but pressing execute on my male troll warrior slaps

[drifting fable]

i mean we say this every tier

we'll be fine

[alpine wraith]

i love execute so much

love my warr

the other smash is also kinda good

[runic trail]

I just need to doom a little bit to get it out of my system

[shrewd lantern]

demolish fun button

[swift tinsel]

Easily one of the most satisfying button presses in game

Very bonk button

[viscid mulch]

Is there a weakaura for backstab, but shows shadowstrike in stealth? Or anyone know how to se that up?

[opal basalt]

Havoc has such a sick set too

I’m really undecided if I wanna play rogue or dh. Potential 3rd dh spec mid-season aside, rogue is kinda ahead rn. I just like the sub burst window so much.

[swift tinsel]

If it helps your decision there is no third dh spec

Aside or otherwise

[tall tusk]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

exCUSE ME?!

just a flat +20% to execute and overpower

which are both strong spells

on top of the additional benefits

i chose to not look at other tier sets so i could be blissfully ignorant, and now i'm in shambles

[alpine wraith]

yea people thinking our tier is cool or good XD

i mean double coup is strong

[tribal blade]

yeah it's strong, but it's nowhere near as strong as that

the rank 1 arms locken parse

#2 & #3 dmg sources getting a flat 20% bump

[bleak night]

[warm marlin]

20% to 40% of damage is not even 10% though

[bleak night]

https://tenor.com/view/big-lebowski-the-dude-your-opinion-gif-4476328

[tribal blade]

oh is it? i don't math good

[warm marlin]

i dont play warrior so idk what the rest of it is

[tribal blade]

it just procs more of the hero tree

slayer's strike is ST proc on your target

reap the storm is an aoe thing

[alpine wraith]

the 4p is stronger

[tropic horizon]

Good evening, could someone tell me if there's a website where I can see where the top parsers use their CDs during the Undermine fights? I think I'm messing up my burst window — I use everything at the start, but I think many others don’t.

[chrome palm]

Lorrgs.io

You typically use flag/blades on pull and on cd but there is a specific sequence to using dance and symbols in blades

[tribal blade]

sorry i use dance and symbols on cd

and sectec on cd

[jaunty heath]

Ahead as in better? Dh is definitely better than rogue by far.

[chrome palm]

https://tenor.com/view/emoji-blue-emoji-let-me-in-let-me-out-stan-twt-gif-1129823411457615480

[tribal blade]

i also started using vers flask over chaos as sin in M+

with how much dmg is going out in every key

marginal dps increase not really worth over taking less dmg

[oblique grove]

is sub better for fast push chugzee

[chrome palm]

yeah and using the first dance makes it even better

if by better you mean at pushing the boss before 3min

[oblique grove]

yea

whys first dance the thing to go

well we accidentally recleared it without wasting 3 hours again so nvm

[tribal blade]

lol i got perma banned from a r/movies on reddit

i think reddit might be the most toxic website i've ever been on

hands down

[keen dome]

What did you do

[bleak night]

he said the prequel trilogy is actually the best one

[tribal blade]

i got a temp ban for breaking a rule, which is fair

the mod who did it gave me a seriously unprofessional comment and then banned me for 69 days (seriously)

so i wrote back saying how unprofessional it all was

BUT wrote back saying basically

i don't wish ill will on anyone, and in the end we're all in this together, so much love

and then he perma banned me

so

i must have struck a nerve

[keen dome]

lmao

[tribal blade]

i did say "i've heard stories about reddit mods, and to see it with my own eyes has been illuminating"

because i've heard all the memes about reddit mods

and to actually experience it

and realize it's all 100% true

[keen dome]

You called them unprofessional, infering there's profesionalism within modding reddit

that struck the nerve

[tribal blade]

TRUEE

this has been my experience with reddit and why i don't go on there often

whenever i do go on there it'll be a mix of people being extremely toxic or bandwagoning on you about political stuff

or starting arguments about absolutely nothing

[keen dome]

Starting arugments about absolutely nothing is part of being on the internet, though

[tribal blade]

i like to think i'm not a toxic person (mostly)

i've gone 20 years of playing wow without so much as a warning from GMs

[keen dome]

Ye, same.

[tribal blade]

btw i timed 19 top today

[keen dome]

Fuck yeah

[tribal blade]

slowly digging my way out of the pit of hell that is being at the start of a resil key level

[keen dome]

I guess you can say you are on aTOP the world.

[tribal blade]

haha nahhh

i'm a top medium

i'm mediocre top

BUT mediocre isn't bad

i like to think

[keen dome]

Haha, yeah

Pretty good imo

I wish there was a "yes, give me it all" option when visiting all the rep pcs on a new guy

[tribal blade]

what timing for this to pop up because i'm searching lfg under 20, and a 9 rook shows up with 2024 in the description

given what we were just talking about reddit

incredible

[keen dome]

haha

[tribal blade]

haha yeah they could do a lot to improve the interface

[keen dome]

That key will be miserable.

[tribal blade]

any time someone is talking this way it always ends in disaster

[keen dome]

Yep

[tribal blade]

esp if someone begs to join your key saying they're a massive pumper

there's this disc priest who queues up for every key with the same note

"massive dick pumper something something something"

and he made it so easy for me and my friends to remember never to invite him

by marking himself like that in lfg

[keen dome]

These are just red flags to me now

[tribal blade]

yeah we invited him once or twice

and he was not good

he also fell significantly behind non meta specs as the meta healer

which is also a red flag

[keen dome]

We're at a point where if you are really really good then it's very easy to find out via other resources. So having to say that in a note is typically a sign of the opposite

Lotta people in WoW have internalized the idea that they have to be the exceptional player to do anything when in reality just being good enough is fine in 99.9% of situations.

People learning the wrong lessons, instead of learning to improve

[tribal blade]

i have yet to meet someone who puts a note like that and be like "holy shit this guy is incredible"

[keen dome]

yeah, same

In raid pugging, it's often a note saying "can do all mechanics"

And then you ask them to do a mechanic and they reply "don't know that one"

[old anchor]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[short radish]

happens all the time with sprocket bombs

[keen dome]

Precisely where it happened to me haha

Invite a guy saying "I can do all mechanics" so I tell him to do bombs, he says he can't do that mechanic so I kick him

(he was a full immune class, so he could)

[flat kite]

hello guys did anyone manage to create a perfect rotation macro for Sub rogue?
like a perfect rotation?
macro 1:
/castsequence reset=35 shadowstrike,flagellation,rupture,shuriken storm,rupture,shadow dance,shadow blades,backstab,symbols of death,cold blood,secret technique,shadowstrike,eviscerate,backstab,eviscerate,backstab,eviscerate,backstab,eviscerate
/cast 13

macro2:
/castsequence reset=35 shuriken storm,symbols of death,backstab,eviscerate,backstab,shadow dance,shadowstrike,secret technique,shadowstrike,eviscerate,backstab,eviscerate,backstab,eviscerate,shadow dance,shadowstrike,eviscerate,backstab,secret technique

But i feel like i lose some dps

[keen dome]

Just use the one button rotation assistant if you want to do that

It'll be easier and more reliable than trying to do a rotation macro

[flat kite]

since some decisions from 1 button assistant are weird and also is not using Shadow Blades for me looks like is not the way to go.

[warm marlin]

Good luck making a long macro for an opener with random combo point procs from shadow techniques

[hollow spear]

Whatever you're trying is definitely also not the way to go

[limpid sage]

There’s some addon that helps with making these kinda macros iirc

It sequences macros together - might be worth looking at

[hollow spear]

These macros are generally not great, but even less so on sub

[keen dome]

I don't think you can make a functional one button macro for Sub.

It will always be inferior, and almost certainly worse than using the OBR Assistant

[hollow spear]

OBR + manually pressing blades has to be much better

[keen dome]

Yeah

Absolutely

[warm marlin]

Macro2 is also a little funky, why build with storm just to press symbols after then backstab then use a supercharger charge on a non dance eviscerate

Or is it supposed to be the second half of blades

[flat kite]

Normally is made to be use after the first macro

but is kinda lacks the use of the shadowdance and symbols.

[warm marlin]

but then there are only 4 dance globals before back to backstabbing and a shuriken storm in what appears to be single target, judging from the backstabs outside of dance

[flat kite]

ok so definitly room for improvement..

[short radish]

@rustic geyser help its happening again

[warm marlin]

I’m not trying to be toxic, just confused about the choices made

[keen dome]

Why not just use the OBR though?

[warm marlin]

Maybe it was phrased poorly

[flat kite]

when testing OBR does like 5 mil at most. Right now i've manage to do around 8 Mil with the first macro if you precast simb before

[proven plover]

Why not just play the game like its intended

[short radish]

no. the best part about playing wow is not playing wow

unironically

[proven plover]

Where is the fun in the game if u press 1 button

[keen dome]

Subjective experiences. Some people will get more enjoyment if it opens it up to them in another way.

[short radish]

but yeah one button rotation macros aint it

[flat kite]

to be honest 1 button macro for eveything is not really realistic. At most 1 button oppenenr or burst window

[limpid sage]

I don’t think sub is the spec for castsequence macros btw. If you want to make macros like this I recommend looking at GSE (Gnome Sequencer Enhanced)

Maybe you can do some conditional loophole stuff in there

[warm marlin]

The wowhead guide should have an example of the first 16 seconds or so of a fight. Should be able to just throw that in a macro while removing any consecutive finishers, since a macro cannot react to refunds like that

[opaque valve]

my cold blood + secret technique macro is not working on the PTR. CB + Envenom works, however. Anybody encountered the same? Says spell not learned

[proven plover]

You could write a Script that follows the opener sequence, reacts to All procs, executes the spell Priority queue and also reacts to things Happening based on World meshes and visual qs, then Name it smth like hnrbddy and have fun playing the game

[warm marlin]

Strike, flag, rupture, dance symbols stab, sectec blades trinket, strike, evis, strike, evis, strike, evis, dance stab, evis, strike, symbols evis, strike, cold blood sectec, strike, evis

Something like that

The symbols placement might be a bit weird, idk what the cdr looks like without refunds

[hollow spear]

My guild took that to the next level. Instead of one buttoning, we have now stopped raiding for the season!

[keen dome]

Damn, the zero button raiding assistant

[hazy breach]

Gotta relog after playing fatebound

It bugs out and the fatebound version is what youre stuck with, which you cant use as sub

[wicked arrow]

is sub awful for visions or am I just bad

I can’t kill 5 mask rexxar at 654

[lilac stag]

Rogue in general is awful at solo content. Assa is easier with the bleed build. Sub is fine you’re just waiting for CDs. So when you don’t have CDs you do no damage and well you need to typically go slow on rexxar to take care of each add then him.

[wicked arrow]

I read a suggestion to gift of the titans off the first boar and then try to blast him but it didn’t work

rexxar stinky af

[hollow spear]

How do ptr encounters look for sub so far?

[tribal blade]

your ilvl is pretty low

top end ilvl atm is ~684

so you're like -30 ilvls

[remote eagle]

god's hardest battles for smol sub rogues

[opal basalt]

2 seconds

[tribal blade]

losing a key to a tiny amount of time is the worst because literally any 1 thing done differently you would have timed

[latent finch]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[remote eagle]

yeah its just healer decided to die to nothing on the last boss :c

hardest part is getting invited again

[runic trail]

I need to start using the backstab for danse stacks, still not used to that yet.

[lilac stag]

Like not playing sub?

[tribal blade]

lol true

sadly sub feels like complete turbo dogshit to play in cinderbrew

granted i haven't play sub in there in a hot minute so i'm not sure what it's like now

[lilac stag]

same garbage is probably a safe assumption. Just 4.2% better

[keen dome]

The first pull is a lot of fun if the rest of your group isn't good and also it's only a 12. that's my Cindermead take

[sick jackal]

does the ptr vendor not have the lily trinket?

[swift tinsel]

Nope

I don’t think it has any trinkets from dungeons besides the s2 ones

[hardy galleon]

Hey guys, just hopping into rogue and learning sub, is Shindigg´s youtube guide on 11.1 sub rogue legit? Or what would be good material to try and get ur head around the specc

[short radish]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[short radish]

start with the wowhead guide

it details out the burst window very well

what to do and why

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[short radish]

like 80% of your damage is in your burst window

anything you do out of it is whatever

[vestal escarp]

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[short radish]

so as long as you can learn that

youre good

[vocal wolf]

Man's got all the commands ready

[runic trail]

He was waiting for this moment.

[hardy galleon]

lol ok thanks :D yeah i looked at the guide yesterday and tried to pracitce bit on dummies, its just that there are so many CDs that its quite confusing to learn just from written guide at first

wowhead guide that is

[runic trail]

Is the 40 seconds left on second charge with windfury? Because windfuryless I've found that with 35 seconds or so left I've screwed myself and found myself missing a few seconds from the second dance mid cooldowns.

[swift tinsel]

If you don’t have skyfury it’s closer to 30 seconds

[runic trail]

Fair enough, good to know! Apparently whenever I spec sub I have an anti-shaman charm on.

[vestal escarp]

35 is

[swift tinsel]

I usually aim for 30-35 to be safe

[vestal escarp]

If you can coup first dance

[runic trail]

Sometimes 35 is fine, sometimes it ain't, 30 is my safespot.

[vestal escarp]

If you cant coup first dance your cds are screwed in many ways

[swift tinsel]

Pre-disorient stonks

[vestal escarp]

Ngl after almost 12 months into tww

Getting to play these convoluted designs for no return is getting real dull

When game is full of 4 buttons blasters

[tribal blade]

yeah it's kinda why i swapped to sin

[runic trail]

But then sin has to deal with deathstalker nonsense.

[vestal escarp]

Sin has its row of bs too

Just rog has to be like this

[runic trail]

Deathstalker wasn't too bad this tier, but silken court prog with deathstalkers....

[vestal escarp]

[runic trail]

Painful

[fleet wharf]

isn't it better than being bored out of your mind because your rotation is too simple?

[vocal wolf]

Don't remind me xd

[runic trail]

Having to fight with my hero talent whilst also dealing with that dance.

[vocal wolf]

Holy hell I had to plan my spenders to try and not drop the mark

[runic trail]

Good design.

[vocal wolf]

Was cringe

Stupid intermissions would last ages

[runic trail]

Like, just put the mark on the rogue

And its fine

[fleet wharf]

i wasnt playing rogue last tier, but wasn't court a good boss to be sub in?

[vocal wolf]

Managing the hero talent was obnoxious

[vestal escarp]

Yeah

[vocal wolf]

I was sin on that fight, but same gripe

[vestal escarp]

Dust sub on blue side was banging on court

[runic trail]

It was made worse that I got dragged into mythic raiding late on that tier. Going from never mythic raiding to progging kyveza and court

'Hey, you never tried drugs before, want some fentanyl'

[vocal wolf]

Kyveza was a great fight

[fleet wharf]

ah, dust. I forgot that existed lmao

[runic trail]

[runic trail]

Kyveza was chill, mechanic happens, go to your place, dodge some things.

Biggest gripe was the damn warrior next to me in intermissions who DIDN'T SIT FUCKING STILL

[vocal wolf]

Hahaha

[vestal escarp]

Kyveza best fight so far since DF and tww

[vocal wolf]

I got assassinated so many times on court

[runic trail]

Thankfully he died a lot and there was legit a feeling of relief when he died

I can now survive intermission

[vestal escarp]

Unsure if majority of other class players complain and dont stick to em becaus its too simple

I enjoy complexity in rog but it's out of place in wow

So wow doesnt let me enjoy complexity in wow

[spiral pewter]

do we have any viable build for ptr for now guyz?

[vestal escarp]

TC hasnt gotten to that point yet

Current build is fine

Trickster set is straightforward

[spiral pewter]

ive just tested fatebound with kb and deathstalker seems terrible

😄

lemme try another one :p

[vestal escarp]

[spiral pewter]

hunter just finished one key with 7m overall

😄

[vestal escarp]

Bro i think you're talking about assassination

[vocal wolf]

What you haven't tried Fatebound Sub yet??

[spiral pewter]

oh yea:D

confused there xD

[vocal wolf]

[spiral pewter]

but trickster sub now im trying 😄

[vestal escarp]

[brittle plinth]

DR was already good and accessible, now it's better and somehow easier

[lilac stag]

Can’t wait for the why doesn’t Cold Blood work question.

[vocal wolf]

Hey why doesn't Col-

[swift tinsel]

I see there’s another raid boss where you can’t get behind it for FW

[brittle plinth]

My problem with cold blood is that it has one of the coolest (ha!) effects but we send it on basically the same gcd so we don't get to enjoy it (much like most of subs effects, like shadowstep also has dripping shadows off arms). Make the effect linger after with some minor increase to something.

[brittle plinth]

Any other class with positional conditions?

[swift tinsel]

WW used to but I don’t think it has that anymore

Was something with RSK doing more damage from behind

Either remove Find Weakness or make it 70% and only apply from Strike plz

[keen dome]

not with that attitude. I'll find a way

[swift tinsel]

U wont

Jk jk I belieeeeeve

[keen dome]

The mission: get behind and apply FW.

Nowhere does it say I have to stay alive after that. 🫡

[tribal blade]

the big issue is it's in the class tree and it's not a good spell for both sin and outlaw

[swift tinsel]

Unless you’re forced into it with Fatebound

[tribal blade]

yeah the fact they forced fatebound into it is just doubling down on their mistakes

[swift tinsel]

That’s the blizzard MO more so nowadays

Doubling down on things that either aren’t working well or people actively dislike

[tribal blade]

maybe they should make cold blood something where it guarantees a spell on each spec will crit every time but deals reduced base dmg

actually nvm sin doesn't have a spell that works like sectec

[swift tinsel]

Or gives increased crit chance during a major cooldown or during Subterfuge for outlaw

Or crit chance and crit damage

Idk

[tribal blade]

yeah i was thinking crit chance and crit dmg

[brittle plinth]

Assassination becoming a 90s class kinda cooks us or we gonna have a niche ?

[swift tinsel]

Since bte already has the crit chance buff

[tribal blade]

from what i've seen fatebound is not good atm

[runic trail]

Nah, cos fatebound is still wank and it won't be ran

[swift tinsel]

Watching whispyrs vid atm and it sounds like their 90sec thing is cooked

[lilac stag]

until they tune it.

[wheat edge]

well with how it currently is, the 90 second fatebound stuff involves holding stuff so its still a 2 min spec

[runic trail]

And even with the 90s cooldowns, you can't send at 90 due to needing cold blood lined up

And other things

[lilac stag]

and assa cooked is like ezmode for sub players.

[runic trail]

So it's 2 minutes

[brittle plinth]

Lol actually?

[swift tinsel]

Yeah