subtlety

[vale pine]

certain fights are also bad to parse on atm

e.g. the top logs on gally on subtlety have ~40% of their damage on adds

so how much you are able to pad could be relevant

[hollow spear]

Yeah I know, I did the same to parse

[vale pine]

Its interessting if you look at logr

[hollow spear]

But padding should be easier as shadow

[vale pine]

thats true

[vale pine]

because you see some ethical logs too

[warm marlin]

the only spec who can out burst sub atm is probably dev

[runic trail]

I'm blaming this for my low gally sin parse, adds just fuckin' melted before I could get spatters off

I did the most boss damage in the raid team though

[warm marlin]

i think if you time your ramps properly you should be able to monopolize all the pad as sub

[short radish]

based.

[runic trail]

Yeah, I didn't really, I should have checked lorrgs but I was more focused on not eating glue because it was the prog kill

[warm marlin]

oh ya i would cast on cd for prog

super unlikely you're going to wipe to those adds

[runic trail]

I cast mostly on CD, I held a bit before suppression but ye

[hollow spear]

Damage was never a problem for us on prog

[warm marlin]

yea gally is just survive and u win

[hollow spear]

Bomb carriers blowing up or tank/priest failing the last hand in was

Bomb carriers dying to standing in electricity

[runic trail]

Yeah, it was mechanical nonsense rather than damage, so I didn't focus on adds.

I hit the boss good though

So I did my part

[mint swift]

This final boss damage amp sounds really good for sub

Makes me consider dusting off my rogue

[runic trail]

I thought you were huntering again

[hollow spear]

With how our class works, there's still some middle ground between ethical play and parsing luckily

With some exceptions of course

[mint swift]

Most likely but idk

I just wanna see big numbers haha

Whenever I try and play sub again my brain just struggles to take in all the buttons. Or well

It’s moreso that it’s a lotta in for at once even if the spec is relatively simple

[vale pine]

Its 3 things even:

1. Fight length --- I think we discussed this yesterday, but fights have a evry good length for 1 min 30 specs and often bad for 2 min.
2. Adds/Padding --- Multiple fights have add damage as high impact factor, so parsing high will depend on how much you can pad.
3. Luck --- Critical strike and having procs/etc during cooldowns adds quite a natural rendomness to the output you can partly mitigate but not completely remove. You will still have a noticable diffrence in run to run performance

[mint swift]

Tbh I’m most likely just going for curve so it doesn’t matter too much on what I play as long as I enjoy

[runic trail]

That was my issue when first trying it but honestly, just spend some time at target dummies for a while until it's hammered into your brain and it's not that bad

[mint swift]

Yea

[runic trail]

It feels clunks AF at first but after a bit it clicks sort of

[mint swift]

Yea

[hollow spear]

Yep, say hi to my 35% sectec crit parse on lockenstock

[mint swift]

I mean if I play rogue and sub fails I can always go back to assa

[vale pine]

Thats true, subtlety is fun even if it has some rough edges

[mint swift]

Hi “remove find weakness // Colo’s”” 35% sectec crit pass on lockenstock

[vale pine]

and thats the biggest win

[mint swift]

Yea

I mean this season has been my best in terms of parses and mythic score even if I stopped playing like a month ago

99.5 is the highest I’ve ever gotten

So that makes me happy

I think I got some 99s on rogue but never more than 2 or smth

[keen dome]

Big blasting

[mint swift]

For sub parses don’t you need to be close to the person logging?

[keen dome]

You want to log yourself, yes

[mint swift]

Otherwise sec tech doesn’t count or something

Ah Kk

[keen dome]

Correct, it can get wierd

So the ideal solution is to log yourself

Like on Cauldron it can be far enough that Akaari won't be attributed properly

[mint swift]

Fair

[opal basalt]

Imagine

That is crazy

[mint swift]

Is that what akarri just sits at the bottom of the dps meter like

:3

Doing 0.003% group damage or smth

Cause that’s what’s happened with my bear too

[keen dome]

Akaari can absolutely out DPS some people lmao

[mint swift]

Just under everyone is
“Bear”

Yea but I think only some of the hits is counted there

[glacial orbit]

wtf

i didn't know logs could be affected like that

[mint swift]

Because when you get back to the person logging it counts as your damage

Idk, that’s my guess

[glacial orbit]

so to be accurate one must always log themselves ?

[mint swift]

Indeed

[glacial orbit]

wtf

[mint swift]

At least from my understanding

[glacial orbit]

first time hearing about that

[mint swift]

But I’m a BM

[glacial orbit]

is that a sub only thing ?

[mint swift]

So listen to someone more reliable

[glacial orbit]

or in general works like that

[warm marlin]

this tier at least, i think sub has a lot of agency to acquire pad for itself if it wants

[mint swift]

I believe in general

Anyway I really need to start my workout
Was supposed to start like 27 min ago

[glacial orbit]

bb

[warm marlin]

on rik/gally you can get your cb sectec off and a couple more globals, i.e. most of your burst before things die

even in a high damage group

on gally this week for example, our 7min adds dropped at 7:12 and were 100% dead by 7:17

rik kinda similar but depends more on barrel spawn positions

[vale pine]

thats true, but its not necessary the best gameplay to kill the boss the fastest

[runic trail]

[warm marlin]

yes 100%

and the kill time and luck stuff especially with the delve belt + tier is quite annoying

[hardy snow]

I totally forgot about TC, is it affected by haste?

[lilac stag]

Gally timings on prog right now making me nutty. Trying to save a dance for technicians and we obliterate them and gally is still in Africa or they live forever as I just sent it in gally since the adds were pointless the previous 8 pulls.

[keen dome]

Duo's continues to remain the worst content Blizz has ever designed, jfc.

[runic trail]

Did they fix the 'tabards make you 1 ilvl' bug yet?

[keen dome]

Yeah to their credit they fixed it really quickly

It just sucks as a mode because it's impossible solo

[runic trail]

But they put out duos instead of just re-releasing the brawlers guild

[warm marlin]

sounds like you're the one blasting them!

[keen dome]

gonna try it in a group

the boss this week is the shredder and it just.. does constant aoe and you have no control over movement or positioning or anything so it can just murder you and the npc tank, and then gg on score

And to get good scores you need to grind the mode to get items to help you get good scores and it's so bad but I require achievement points

[lilac stag]

Nah. They’re dead in 3 seconds or the entire raid forgot about the technician.

[mint swift]

There’s no talent changes or anything for the ptr right? So subs most likely similar in 11.2 right? (At least as far as ppl can tell so far)

[lilac stag]

something would actually have to change for sub or rogue in general. It has not.

[vale pine]

Subtlety seems fine in 11.2

it just follows the usual change, where the tier set might be good

but the spec has no new tools or shiny featrues

these are usually reserved for other specs

[tepid trellis]

surely they make us able to test the set soon

RIGHT?

[vale pine]

i mean you can test the set, the 4p is just not working tho i haven't tested today

[tepid trellis]

and not have it be bugged af until 2 days before patch

SURELY

[hardy snow]

is thousand cuts affected by haste?

[vale pine]

yes

[hardy snow]

i mean the reset rppm

without any waste, hidden blade effectiveness to coup is 2.67x next season. if reset affected by haste, it could be something interesting to try

[runic trail]

I heard people say it was working as of latest update

[vale pine]

spell data```Name : Thousand Cuts (id=441346) [Spell Family (8), Passive]
Talent Entry : Trickster (Outlaw, Subtlety) [tree=hero, row=3, col=3, max_rank=1, req_points=1, select_idx=100]
Class : Rogue
School : Physical
Spell Type : None
Spell Level : 1
Labels : 16: Class Spells
: 20: Rogue Spells
: 292
Proc Chance : 100%
Real PPM : 4.5 (Haste multiplier)
Proc Flags : White Melee
Attributes : Passive (6), Not In Spellbook (143), Do Not Log on Learn (355)
Effects :
#1 (id=1135747) : Apply Aura (6) | Add Flat Modifier (107): Spell Effect 1 (3)
Base Value: 10 | Scaled Value: 10 | Misc Value: 3 | Target: Self (1)
Affected Spells: Slice and Dice (5171), Slice and Dice (315496)
Family Flags: 18
Description : Slice and Dice grants $s1% additional attack speed and gives your auto-attacks a chance to refresh your opportunity to strike with Unseen Blade.

[runic trail]

Unless I misread

[vale pine]

oh, i can test later

if so, would be great news

[warm marlin]

4p def working on ptr

[vale pine]

nice

[runic trail]

Got fixed pretty quickly

[candid mural]

Is it just me or is the only 1:30 agi/mastery trinket not on the vendor?

[void hound]

fastest tier set fix in sub history?

[vale pine]

its https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/item=242494/lily-of-the-eternal-weave

[alpine wraith]

it is a m+ trink

hmm

[hazy breach]

That trinket is probably gonna fill the same spot pvp trinket filled this tier

The goto trinket until you get the raid trinket

Because yes its a 90s trinket, but its not particularly highly tuned and since it has passive agi less of its power is in the on-use

[alpine wraith]

yea the spymaster esque is just omegastrong

[short radish]

we use HoC over that?

[alpine wraith]

until there is more ilvl

you will just farm it on m+ until you get the raid one

[vale pine]

probably for the start

[hazy breach]

At the same ilvl hoc is better yes

[mystic vector]

im new at sub what guide do u recommend, wowhead, icy, maxroll...

[void hound]

is the spymaster trinket any good for sub?

[vale pine]

!guide all of them should have the same information

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[median nacelle]

cant find the spymaster trinket in the trinket list, am i blind? full name?

[mystic vector]

im always lost on when to use evis or black powd on aoe lets see if got some info there

[vale pine]

have fun, and if you got questions just come back here and ask

[mystic vector]

ty!

[short radish]

do not trust maxroll for anything wow related

[hazy breach]

Prism something

[mystic vector]

i've heard smthn bout AI guides

[short radish]

yeah

dont trust it

[hazy breach]

Yes ofc, big burst = good for sub

[tepid trellis]

last i checked the rogue ones were pretty good, but that was some time ago

[zenith prism]

unseen blade remains unseen is definitely dogshit

[vale pine]

I can't comment on maxroll as i haven't kept up with these guides, they def. had a bit of a bad start

[tepid trellis]

pretty sure it does have an animation

[mystic vector]

looks like rogue community have a lot of good guides and theorycrafters . Im a Brewmaster main and cannot say the same about monk community

[zenith prism]

UB it self has a sound, but reset of UB is totally untrackable

[tepid trellis]

ah the reset

well yeah thousand cuts

is unfortunately not track-able

[vale pine]

It will be a bit annoying next season

because we get even more resets

[hazy breach]

Idk its not like it would change anything gameplay wise if we could

[vale pine]

you could potentially do some micro optimizations

[hazy breach]

Like what

[tepid trellis]

its just the nature of wow players wanting to track every little thing, even if said thing is bordeline useless

[vale pine]

with multiple targets, not using backstab if you can't apply/proc UB

but the diffrence would be extremely low in output

and the resets might mean, its even more common to have UB

which i would asusme just means its whatever

[tepid trellis]

like i remember mal getting questions about AUI after i told him to remove tracking of finality Evis/BP people wanted to still see it, which just doesent make any sense

[mystic vector]

i've been doing some weird moves trying to optimize Danse Macabre (like using shiv to stack it )

[tepid trellis]

yeh dont xD

[alpine wraith]

dont worry im also an information maniac for those

i even used to trac stat procs

[vale pine]

thats normal, its the intuitive approach for the spell. And then you realize you essentially lose one global to a 0 dps spell and its worse than playing regular ^^

[swift tinsel]

Iirc I was typically trying for first in dance but if I had a coup waiting it wastes two EB stacks

[alpine wraith]

even if they do nothing and most of the time you wont ever play around them

[hazy breach]

Mfers tracking alacrity and deeper daggers smh my head

[vale pine]

haha

[alpine wraith]

i still track deeper

cool icon

[swift tinsel]

Also I’m 95% sure the ‘double dance between each flag’ dream is dead

[alpine wraith]

more likely triple dance with cds

but we shall see

[vale pine]

did you play around on ptr

[swift tinsel]

Yeah was doing that and it was working well esp with tfd

Yeah I tried doing more testing last night but I kept getting booted

[vale pine]

uff

[tepid trellis]

YEP!

[tepid trellis]

should be quuite doable with Skyfury

[swift tinsel]

Prelim findings with new set are tfd is really good for opener, was losing 7-8 EB stacks per 5 min fight, 1/2 Death Perception-2/2 Finality feels quite strong

[swift tinsel]

Was finding I was ~30sec off from being able to do it so it may be possible but either really tight or rng dependent

[north schooner]

that's very good tbh. Having to use the pvp trinket until hoc was horrible in s2, and this trinket is very accessible being from a dungeon despite being a bit underbudget on the active

[swift tinsel]

Also netherprism timing of using at 0:30 and max stacking by 3:00 makes that flag window quite strong

Was hitting over 10mil burst without any buffs pots etc

[vale pine]

The budget is low because it has agi. Its a common design to have lower power in trinkets which have main stat.

[swift tinsel]

Need a reliable skyfury bot for dummy testing though to get a better picture

[vale pine]

it means, we ideally want a trinket without main stats ^^

[north schooner]

so does HoC though, but being a raid trinket it has more on use on equal ilvl

[swift tinsel]

Inev also felt quite valuable for ensuring more cp towards 2nd coup outside dance bc energy bottleneck felt more noticeable

[hollow spear]

30s off when you arrived at the 3:00 flag?

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

[alpine wraith]

you would likely still use it every cd rotation for general use

but it is cool you can save it and use it later if the fight demants it

[vale pine]

Raid trinkers are also always tuned higher than dungeon ones, it one way to keep raid loot more rleevant

[swift tinsel]

I’m going to test more tonight, hopefully servers are less temperamental

[mystic vector]

Hmm we'll be going deathstalker next patch? or tricks still better?

[swift tinsel]

Trickster

[hollow spear]

Might end up having to sim a pool sht and hold coup aggressively and stick to alternating 2/1 dances vs. full send and trying to squeeze 2 always.

[alpine wraith]

very likely trickster

[vale pine]

trickster, unless they buff deathstalker in some capacity

but even if, the gameplay loop on deathstalker is in general worse

[swift tinsel]

Playing with the current dance cadence is fine and works well, you sometimes send an extra naked Sectech vs what we do currently but I think trying to fix 2x dance between each flag might take some extra finessing

If you save coup and auto attack for sht farm into flag though it is quite good

And the pre-pull disorient and supercharge makes the opener notably strong

Also having some sht going into flag gives a better chance to not waste EB stacks if you can luck into a coup - sht refund - coup which is a best case scenario

I do quite like the set though, now that the 4pc is working. The feedback loop of more UB-more double coups-more Sectech-more UB feels very nice to play with

Only caveat being losing 4x coups per 5mins (2 from lost EB stacks and 2x from the 4pc)

If other people could corroborate the lost EB stacks though that would be helpful

[hollow spear]

Sounds realistic that you'd lose about that much

Especially if you hold coup for a bit

[swift tinsel]

If you could store stacks in the background while you have the 4pc buff that’d be cool

Kinda like sht

Or just change the buff

To literally anything besides escalating blade lol

Would make tiptoeing around disorienting strikes not nearly as annoying

[tribal blade]

god i hate /2 sometimes

had to go digging through logs to make sure someone wasn't gaslighting a rsham asking if eye of kezan is bis or not

and some idiot was telling him it was

[swift tinsel]

Isn’t it pickmeup and jug

[tribal blade]

yeah those 2

and then pick me up and the candle wax thing for M+ it looks like

[swift tinsel]

Bc that’s what ours was harping about all season lol

Ah yeah

Blazikon’s or whatever it was

[tribal blade]

yeah our rsham went looking into all that, she said if a fight is super long in raid it could be worth running eye

but looks like most don't, even on gally

iirc she said eye isn't worth because it takes time to stack, and then you aren't at full power at the start of gally

[keen dome]

Just confidently tell people, never fear.

[tribal blade]

and the first half of gally is the hard part

[keen dome]

I see it a lot though, people asking about Kezan and the best question to ask in turn is what kind of content are they doing

[tribal blade]

i do see a lot of high end key pushers like kira and his team using eye

[keen dome]

Yeah

It makes sense when you cans tay in combat most of the time and stuff lives for so long

I think for most people it's extremely mid, though

[tribal blade]

but you need a cooridinated group for that, they do stuff like pull stuff earlyish when half the group isn't ready yet

to delay out of combat time

[keen dome]

When someone asks and it's "I raid heroic and also only do +5 keys" it's like nah buy something else

[tribal blade]

yeah it's really bad for that

esp if you die it's REALLY bad

[keen dome]

Ye

[tribal blade]

or if you drop combat for too long, which happens a lot in pugs

[keen dome]

It's why I think it's always best to ask someone what they're doing, what content, what level

[tribal blade]

my thinking is anyone asking /2 for advice is not doing high end content haha

[keen dome]

The typical issue of most people only having a look at Archon or murk.io or w/e and deciding this is for them, with no further thought. Or deciding that the only content that exists is the content they do.

Also that, yeah, absolutely

[tribal blade]

i just had to speak out and correct it because that could have led to that guy wasting a dinar

[keen dome]

You see it in Newcomer chat a lot "What spec is best for X" or "What should I do to mythic raid"

I always do the same. Giving advice is good imo, it makes the game better.

[tribal blade]

true!

[hollow spear]

What do you tell them?

Play sub rogue, it pumps?

[keen dome]

absolutely

[tribal blade]

plus that guy came back into /2 and said "lol the sham discord all told me eye is shit"

[keen dome]

Hahah

Victory

[tribal blade]

you know what, i think i'm going back sub for the start of next tier

[keen dome]

There are quite a few sub rogues who don't engage with external resources that think running a 1HMW in their OH is the right chocie

[tribal blade]

sub rogue must be one of the most godawful specs to play without knowing how to play it

[keen dome]

Yeah haha

You see quite a lot of people trying to solve the 'downtime' or no damage stuff without understanding the why it's like that

[tribal blade]

kind of like going from riding a tricycle to a harley davidson with nothing inbetween haha

[keen dome]

hah

[tribal blade]

yeah that's a common thing i get asked

[keen dome]

man, two outlaws in this pug

[tribal blade]

"when i'm not in cds i can't press anything, am i messing up?"

[rotund pawn]

feels extremely bad to do that

[swift tinsel]

Then they spec tea

[tribal blade]

the last boss starts P3 with a 200% dmg amp????

sub rogues everywhere rejoicing

[keen dome]

hah

[upper narwhal]

Surely more energy outside of cooldowns is good, so you can press more 0 damage buttons!

[keen dome]

noo they want to hero vexie on pull. Sad.

[opal basalt]

pressing buttons is good

thats why there's no real pure burst specs in the game anymore except for sub

at least that's my theory

[runic trail]

If I was trying to figure this shit out intuitively I'd have zero chance

I feel like most other specs I could cobble something together, sub would be a lot harder

[opal basalt]

there's cleverer people than me for that

just like i copy someone's build in poe

i copy talents and rotations in WoW

[tribal blade]

same here

[runic trail]

Yup. I'm dumb but I'm smart enough to listen to the people who know things at least.

[brittle plinth]

Been a good couple days. Got invincible and second binding (10 years apart). Time to quit wow now.

[opal basalt]

gratz

[hollow spear]

It's still good to understand why guides recommend stuff

Helps you build some intuition

[brittle plinth]

A guide is a starting point, you should still play with the talents on your own (my opinion)

You should understand why the guides recommend what they recommend

[short radish]

most people arent smart enough to understand that

or at elast understand changing talents around

[remote shuttle]

I never Copy/paste, i need to understand why i do things 🤣

[brittle plinth]

Each talent has a mouse over, if you type the name of a talent or ability in search bar it will highlight everything that affects it

It's has never been easier to build yourself up

I mean I guess mop talents but still

[short radish]

yes and no

you cant just select random talents

[brittle plinth]

Of course you can and you should

[zenith prism]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[short radish]

that leads to people selecting goremaws bite

[brittle plinth]

You should learn how the class is structured

Ya and they learn why it's bad instead of repeating it cause they heard it in disc

I get this doesn't appeal to everyone

[short radish]

mhmmmm

i still dont agree

i mean you should know what talents do

[brittle plinth]

Absolutely acceptable

No one dictates how you have fun in the game except you

I'm just an avatar and words haha

[short radish]

but 80% of players dont even get aotc

[brittle plinth]

Aotc?

[short radish]

half the builds ppl will cook up are going to be omega scuffed

[brittle plinth]

That's heroic raiding?

[short radish]

ahead of the curve

[brittle plinth]

M+ exists, why would I raid?

Although I should give it a shot

[swift tinsel]

Some people enjoy raiding

Some don’t

[brittle plinth]

I used to

Maybe I should try

But aotc isn't a definitive measure of ability like it was ever since m+

Especially with how easy and "cheap" it is to get

[short radish]

well

80% of people also dont get ksm

[brittle plinth]

2k?

[short radish]

ye

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

[brittle plinth]

Fair I guess

[short radish]

my point is

most people in wow are really bad

[tribal blade]

it puts things into perspective when you realize you're doing stuff in this game that the vast majority of people can't do

[short radish]

them being able to just copy a wowhead build

is more than good enough

[brittle plinth]

I'm sorry but I never suggested that wasn't acceptable. I just said my opinion was people should freely explore and build their talents out themselves, at some point.

[runic trail]

Trust me, you don't want me to cook, it's safer this way

[brittle plinth]

I'd love to see what wild shit ppl come up with lol

[short radish]

yeah and i disagree

people should not cook random builds

[runic trail]

Meth. I'd be cooking meth.

[short radish]

99.9% of the time it's going to be just wrong

[tribal blade]

if you are really proficient at this game and play it at a super high level, go ahead and cook

[short radish]

^

[meager coyote]

soo belt pin update when? :3

[brittle plinth]

I've defended plenty of meth cooks, I'm comfortable with you as long as you are miles away.

[short radish]

its updated

[alpine wraith]

yea we use crit everywhere now

[hollow spear]

There's not much point in cooking up builds when there's just clear numerical winners. Guides usually also tell you if there's alternatives that excel at different things.

[runic trail]

It'd be the kind of meth that results in the house exploding

[tribal blade]

because with how talents work in this game it's pretty much impossible for the average wow player to cook up a halfway decent build

[brittle plinth]

I've had one of those too ... Not full explosion but fire department did show up

[tribal blade]

you need to have a very good understanding of how everything works

[meager coyote]

cool cool

[hollow spear]

Kinda depends on the content of course

[brittle plinth]

You are saying that the destination is more important. I am saying the journey in building your own, to understand how things work together is.

[hollow spear]

If you do some world questing, delves or m0

[brittle plinth]

I'm not saying actually using wild builds as a normal practice.

[hollow spear]

You can burn the kitchen down and still succeed

[brittle plinth]

Like I said no one has to agree with me, but I enjoy it.

[hollow spear]

And if it feels fun to do that, all the power to the player

[tribal blade]

i think it's better to take the standard build and then look through it and figure out why it's good

[brittle plinth]

Not the meth

The talents

[brittle plinth]

Also important

[tribal blade]

i don't want to say it's a complete waste of time, but it's kind of not a great use of time trying to cook a build with wow talents

[hollow spear]

Guides kinda take away that feeling of novelty and experimentation, but you cannot just wing it in high level content and succeed.

[swift tinsel]

Plus sub isn’t the most intuitive so building a talent build with no knowledge of how the spec functions isn’t necessarily going to teach you that

[brittle plinth]

Not everyone plays at high end, like we discussed.

And not everyone wants to make their own builds.

[hollow spear]

Yeah, sub is definitely a no cook zone

[tribal blade]

but i do get what you mean, it can be very fun to look through it all and make something that is "yours"

[hollow spear]

Lashga still burns the kitchen down every now and then

[alpine wraith]

it used to be you had some close builds in DF

like the ER one for dungeons etc

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1106224572811984956/1367129809951395871/9sftfb.gif

[alpine wraith]

funny to do and not super bad

[brittle plinth]

Exactly

[swift tinsel]

Rip

[alpine wraith]

but now everything is so cut and dry

[runic trail]

And then he paid for a personal chef

[brittle plinth]

Lash was the guy who got upset about the rainbows?

[tribal blade]

but thing is it's a WAY better use of your time to come in here or go to a wowhead guide and educate yourself

[tribal blade]

RIP

[hollow spear]

Posting no sectec builds and fifteen gem combination sims afterwards

[brittle plinth]

Hahaha

[swift tinsel]

Best part is I made that gif for something completely unrelated lol

[tribal blade]

i couldn't figure out if he was trolling or serious

with his builds

[brittle plinth]

Only thing I want is a reason to drop my circes

[swift tinsel]

I think he just genuinely didn’t know how the spec works

[brittle plinth]

I'm willing to move on from this topic

[hollow spear]

I fear that he was serious

[swift tinsel]

Bc he tried building No Flag, No Sectech builds

[hollow spear]

No, we're talking about Lashga now

Different context

[brittle plinth]

Or he understood

[swift tinsel]

Or would link stat weight sims thinking certain stat setups would net a key level higher

[tribal blade]

no

[brittle plinth]

Flag sucks and so does sectech, if we could get away from it tho :p

[tribal blade]

i had to explain basic sub rogue things to him

and he was the supposed former rank 1 sub rogue

there's no way

[swift tinsel]

Sectech is awesome wym

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I could never square that circle

[brittle plinth]

Bait

[hollow spear]

Best sub rogue globally

[keen dome]

SecTec rules, yeah

It's an awkward skill in how it works but it's a great button to push

[brittle plinth]

Imagine a world friends

[swift tinsel]

If it was one damage hit it would rule the world ngl

[tribal blade]

i wish i could remember exactly what i educated him on

[brittle plinth]

Where they didn't have to fix sectech

Cause some meth head made a build that didn't need it

Junkie engineering at its finest

[swift tinsel]

Losing our hardest hitting ability

Hmge

[tribal blade]

"i want to drop 1 talent point that makes up 20% of our damage"

or w/e % it is

[hollow spear]

I don't know what the alternative talent to sectec would have to look like

[swift tinsel]

Respec

[hollow spear]

But it has to be some kind of nuke

Maybe arcane mage

[void hound]

sectec is a cool button, it just looks boring

[hollow spear]

Kyveza sectec when?

[north schooner]

it's right there, it's called PV

[void hound]

sub would be the best spec if it leaned into shadow clone mechanics

[swift tinsel]

Ew ew ew

[swift tinsel]

Hard agree

[brittle plinth]

Sectech is an ability that should be cool but isnt

The clones should be more pronounced

[hollow spear]

They'll release vfx dlcs with midnight

[swift tinsel]

Fuckin hope not

[brittle plinth]

Did you know our hands have purple drip during cast?

[hollow spear]

49,99 for Kyveza sub rogue

[brittle plinth]

Cause we sure as fuck don't see it

Shadow clone dbl down would be great

And swaps between them

[tribal blade]

imagine if sectec spawned a clone for every target hit

[swift tinsel]

Oh man

[north schooner]

69,99 your Sectec doesn't use pets to attack and actually hits

[brittle plinth]

Stop

I'm already hard

Sectech is hard capped at 5 right?

[swift tinsel]

Multi shadow clone jutsu Inc

[swift tinsel]

Soft

[tribal blade]

so it would be the initial hit would act as a "tag" on the mobs

[swift tinsel]

Uncapped but soft capped at 5

[tribal blade]

and then the clones would hit every mob tagged by the initial hit

[brittle plinth]

Not soft yet soon

[swift tinsel]

And then poof into logs after they hit

[brittle plinth]

100% required

[swift tinsel]

Also give sharingan

[brittle plinth]

I wouldn't mind a second aoe where they explode after a few hits as capstone

[swift tinsel]

Like you plant a mini bomb on them

[brittle plinth]

Ya

[swift tinsel]

Then boom

[north schooner]

fuuma shuriken instead of sectec

[brittle plinth]

Yall said sectech was great and then immediately agreed with me in intent

Just saying

Sectech lacking atm

[tribal blade]

i think turning sub into the melee arcane mage would be a start

[hollow spear]

Sectec doesn't lack imo besides looking lame

[swift tinsel]

Not mutually exclusive

[brittle plinth]

I regret making hunter my range alt

Should of done mage

[swift tinsel]

Sectech is great

Obv could be better but most things in game can be improved

[brittle plinth]

Although marksman dark ranger is gonna be bonkers if they don't get nerfed

[brittle plinth]

It's just an evis with a second DMG component that sometimes doesn't work

Could be more

[hollow spear]

They'll balance stuff for sure

[swift tinsel]

And we all accept sub could use improved visuals

That’s a given

[brittle plinth]

I'd take desth from above over it

[hollow spear]

Some stuff is completely out of whack on ptr

[north schooner]

how about fatal intent instead of sectec

[swift tinsel]

Shut up

Ew

None of that

Fatal intent needs to go or get buffed by 10,000%

[void ocean]

id argue we need improved stealth

[hollow spear]

You'll get a taste of fatal intent if you keep this up bud

[void ocean]

we could use full stealth, like our char invisible to us as well

[swift tinsel]

Sub ignores truesight gogo

[north schooner]

will it be as tasteful as the one in game?

[swift tinsel]

Would make our shrouds immune to truesight

Plus the 100% move speed

[void ocean]

#ShroudIsNOTaRaidBuff

[swift tinsel]

Plus you’ll never play deathstalker because the tier set feels omegabad so miss me with the fatal tickle

[void ocean]

maybe we should try smth similar

[tribal blade]

priests have basically no cd soothe skips

locks have 2 min cd gate skips

this has been a trend

[short radish]

各位大家好，sorry I ping you but this very 很重要 thing 😔🙏

This week PTR patch note 出来了… and not even 一个 tiny mention about our Death Grip 问题. They just say “Abomination Limb is gone but 是一个buff”?? 啥？？你在骗我？You remove strong arm and call it present?? Are we panda or clown 🤡?

Blizzard 现在完全 ignore 我们的 feedback. So now — 我们 make them listen 💢

If you是 DK and inside 心 say “this 不公平啊!” — then I beg you, go Twitter, go 微信, go 你最喜欢的 social media, and type:
👉 #GripIsNOTaRaidBuff
Type like you never type before. Like typing summon Army of the Dead 🧟‍♂️

Unholy 战士 who sick of Wounds mechanic, and dev pretend it 不存在 —
👉 #DeleteWounds
Post until they look! Post until they cry!

⚠️ Important 注意事项：
No angry words 😤❌ No 骂人, no threaten, or I 把你踢出去!
We DK, not 恶霸. We fight with honour… and pet ghoul.

[north schooner]

can you soothe skip the first pack of priory

[void ocean]

dahell...

[vale pine]

For what reason?

[tribal blade]

In the deep of Dire Maul奏出伤的歌 Every man for himself 提悲伤的歌 Mage cannot save you 提悲伤的歌 Blink Blink 提悲伤的歌 To the door of light 提悲伤的歌歌

[short radish]

兄弟腐化者 brother corrupter 应用绿色盾牌 apply green shield 牺牲撩人的女士 sacrifice sultry lady 发展优秀的破坏 develop excellent devastation

[void ocean]

im sure there will be plenty 😄

[vale pine]

Yes, but this applies to most classes/specs

[void ocean]

if not for what they did to us in 11.1

[vale pine]

their post has a very clear goal of getting attention in the raid buff discussion

[hollow spear]

Not sure if 12 people starting a riot will be noticed

[vale pine]

which is for us solved because of antropic

[tribal blade]

Grobbulus 小球 Disease cloud 疾病云 move with urgent haste 急忙搬家 kill the bloopers 杀死暴徒

increase patrols in the grassland to detain warchief's sun thieves - 增加在草原的巡逻，以拘留酋长的晒太阳贼

邪恶的骑士 Evil horseriders 一起站 Stand together for falling sky 带走武器 Steal weapon 避免黑洞 Avoid pancake of darkness 圣光波 Change position often

Strong bear 強熊 swipe paws 刷爪 engage robot gift 搞机器人礼物 to increase velocity 增加速度 and hold attention 引起注意

kel'thuzad boss fight 克尔苏加德 using paladin money-throw strategy 使用圣骑士撒币大法, mobs wondering around 小怪到处鲁乱跑 like go shopping on the street 就像逛街一样

wise men failure 基爾紮紮德 swordmen killed by ice wizzard 冰精灵 scandinavian rage 危險地上的圓圈 require new blessings 朋友是

ICE MAN 冰人 red circle bad 红色圆圈坏 friend fight friend 朋友打架 big bug come 大虫来了 Board the bone fort in the sky. Kill the Lord to bring back his box -- 登上空中的骨堡。杀死耶和华把箱子带回来

loatheb big green man 大绿人 protect darkness 保护黑暗 hug orange ball 拥抱橙色球 raise hand to fill green bar 举起手来填补绿色栏

sapphiron 冷蜥蜴 mobile refrigerated shower 🤌 移动式冷冻淋浴 large damage location 大寒冷的地方 fly into great sky 龙去空中 use liquid water elemental 霜药水 turn man into frozen dinosaur 恐龙冰块 hide behind statue 隐藏冰冻的人

heigan dirty man 黑衣脏人 disease spread far 疾病传播得很远 make the fast dance 跳快舞 become friend with small worm 和小虫子成为朋友 do the disco party 参加迪斯科舞会

sapphiron 冷蜥蜴 large damage location 大寒冷的地方 fly into great sky 龙去空中 use liquid water elemental 霜药水 turn man into frozen dinosaur 恐龙冰块 hide behind statue 隐藏冰冻的人

[alpine wraith]

ok

[tribal blade]

hahaha i'm so sorry

[hollow spear]

Holy copy pasta

[short radish]

Hey everyone, sorry for the ping, but this is important.

With this weeks PTR patch notes going out, without even an acknowledgement of our feedback about Demonic Gateway being non viable as a raid buff, and their justification for the removal of Rocket Boots making us worse, while treating it like its a buff has gone too far. They aren't listening to us, so we need to make them listen.

Anyone who believes what's going on right now is an absolute injustice to Warlocks in general, i implore you, take to whatever social media platform you prefer with the hashtag #GatewayIsNOTaRaidBuff, and keep doing so until they respond.

For Destruction folks done with everything going on with Destruction and their ignorance of our feedback as well, you can throw in #DeleteEmbers.

i DO NOT want to see is any disrespect to anyone, no threats, no ne of that AT ALL. If i see it, you WILL be banned from this community. Our goal is to get them to hear us, nothing more.

[brittle plinth]

What did abom grip do again?

[short radish]

是也许是 ANDIN DID TELDRASIL是也许是 AZERITE FUEL NO MELT TREE BEAM? 是也许是

the crab walks on all 螃蟹走在所有 no escape from prison 无法越狱 balls not being swallowed 睾丸不被吞 unite on the circle 团结在圈子上

<Domino's Pizza> 基爾紮紮德 KILL THESE DEAD 冰精灵 thats just rude and bad manners 危險地上的圓圈 famed slayer of secret 朋友是敵人 italian man bark order 怪物不死族出現 wise men dont use compendiums 智者應用鎖鏈

祝福你 Putin mind control by Jailer祝福你Next expansion raid boss 祝福你Anduin KGB spy 祝福 All male draft to azeroth army

cross over the beams 越过梁 line the healer 给治疗者排队 miss the hole 错过这个洞 inescapable prison 无法逃脱的监狱

Is your guild wiping 200 attempt hungering destroyer??? 肯德基 KFC ULTIMATE ZINGER BOX designed 消滅飢餓 to deSTROY hunger

powerful crab 強大的螃蟹 dodge magic swirl 閃避魔法漩渦 heated potato bomb 加熱土豆炸彈 walk down path 走下小路

英雄联盟 TORGHAST 8 ZINGER BOSS? 英雄联盟 18 FLOORS CONTENT? 英雄联盟 씨발 17 SPIRES 17 HOURS? 英雄联盟 PRIDEFUL EVERY PACK CONTENT? 英雄联盟 OVERTIME POLICE 英雄联盟

kelthuzad 基爾紮紮德 ICE WIZZARD 冰精灵 circles on ground dangerous 危險地上的圓圈 friends turn enemy 朋友是敵人monster undead appear 怪物不死族出現 wise men apply chains 智者應用鎖鏈

英雄联盟 TORGHAST 8 ZINGER BOSS? 英雄联盟 18 FLOORS CONTENT? 英雄联盟 씨발 17 SPIRES 17 HOURS? 英雄联盟 PRIDEFUL EVERY PACK CONTENT? 英雄联盟 OVERTIME POLICE 英雄联盟

[void ocean]

what is going on...

[tribal blade]

very important things

[vale pine]

can we please not mimic twitch chat

thanks

[short radish]

Glory to the CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY干得好 we are declare war for indonesian 你被中共开除出党 are gold bots 中华business thievs中华. 公开处决 DO NOT buying glod from indonsia. you have been warninged 中华人民共和国

okay sorry

[brittle plinth]

Yeah this is stupid

[short radish]

i'll stop

[tribal blade]

correction, this is hilarious

[hollow spear]

Twitch chat reflexes right there

[short radish]

i prefer to think of it as frostmoune raid general chat

[tribal blade]

sorry sorry

[brittle plinth]

Brainrot took over instantly

[hollow spear]

The second a pasta appears, all hands on deck

[tribal blade]

one of the best parts about raid nights

[void ocean]

whats next, anal jokes...

[tribal blade]

is people spamming copypastas in /1

and raid chat

[brittle plinth]

Anal [Lethal Intent]?

[hollow spear]

We have sin chat for that

[vale pine]

i have the general raid channels deactivated

[tribal blade]

you're missing out

[vale pine]

because its just mindless spam most of the time

[short radish]

i have freshly cooked pasta to ask for raidbuffs

[hollow spear]

Fatal Intentussy

[runic trail]

The DK copypasta is funny as fuck at least, imagine starting a hashtag because of slappy hands being taken away

[tribal blade]

dm it to me

i need it

[brittle plinth]

Find weakness is personal to us right?

[hollow spear]

It's very personal to me

[void ocean]

well we r the ones that find the weakness, yes

[hollow spear]

Sometimes I can't find it

[void ocean]

man in the boat?

[hollow spear]

Backstabbing air maybe

If gloomblade did what it says it does

It might be good for some fights

[void ocean]

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fgklbkvwmndv91.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D3113b0aa51dc587287a33e140d83f0a1b623039d

[short radish]

https://tenor.com/view/community-ken-jeong-for-ants-gif-11383549

[brittle plinth]

Good Chang reference

[void ocean]

dunno, im on ultrawide rn, its quite alright

[tribal blade]

that's senor chang to you sir

[brittle plinth]

El tigre?

[tribal blade]

si si

el tigre

[brittle plinth]

That rap exit song he had

Lives rent free in my head

[tribal blade]

my favorite episodes were the paintball ones

[hollow spear]

Guys, stop memeing and get back to the ptr mines

[short radish]

what are you, my raid leader?

[hollow spear]

Yes?

[tribal blade]

can't be on the ptr mines when i'm in the trying to time keys mines

[short radish]

oh okay

[void ocean]

some of us have to work

adulthood n shit

[hollow spear]

Doesn't look like you are

[runic trail]

Same but I've done all the shit I needed to do so I'm just on here instead

[void ocean]

lies.

[brittle plinth]

https://youtu.be/RHHs8TW0AB0?si=E-mQ1I47eUFg53Rz

[hollow spear]

Fuu, can you open a gofundme for an afk shaman on ptr so sub rogues can do dummy tests?

[brittle plinth]

If the buff is passive

I don't mind staying logged on

I always assumed they casted it

[swift tinsel]

I just got to work so its 'hang out on discord for a lil bit while sipping coffee' time

[swift tinsel]

I tried getting mine set up on NA but I keep getting the No Realms Available brick

though I think it might just be a DF client account not upgraded to TWW

would be lovely if there was a buff NPC by the gear vendors

[short radish]

bring back party buff scrolls

[lilac stag]

can we get a scroll of DK Grip?

[runic trail]

Scroll of abomination limb time

[short radish]

dk isn't a raid/party buff

[lilac stag]

I do enjoy that we’re one of (maybe the only) to have a utility spell canceled out by a consumable / racial.

sad and hilarious at the same time.

[swift tinsel]

besides brez and cables yeah

[tribal blade]

tell that to every dungeon this season where grips are enormous utility /cry

[swift tinsel]

thats the only other one I can think of

[short radish]

i'd drop teh copypasta again but then fuu will tell me off

[tribal blade]

hahaha

EU servers operate differently than NA servers

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/doja-cat-star-wars-gif-25078126

[lilac stag]

How many specs have combat res vs how many have stealth

[vale pine]

i rather not hape the chat spammed with copy/pasta

[short radish]

no i'm a coward

[vale pine]

a meme from time to time is fine tho^^

[lilac stag]

I didn’t see it

Let me see it you bastards

[tribal blade]

DAAAAMN nice one

[short radish]

#subtlety message

[lilac stag]

Sorry links aren’t working.

[short radish]

[lilac stag]

Just says subtlety

[void ocean]

phishing probably

ur acc is gone

[lilac stag]

likely

[swift tinsel]

SadscAth inc

[lilac stag]

Doggo pict should be worth a copypasta

[short radish]

i tried to rick roll but i got told off by the bot

[vale pine]

haha, to be fair your message is also in line with what you would expect from a scammer

[short radish]

that was the joke!

[vale pine]

well just means the bot does a good job^^

[short radish]

you can't have any fun pretending to be a scammer anymore

true

good @wicked jolt

[zenith prism]

WTF is this

[short radish]

content

🙂

[zenith prism]

looks like you ate a poisonous mushroom lol

[vale pine]

Many people are on multiple servers, and the DK discord did ping everyone in an attempt to get a raid buff for their class. People meme about it.

[spark plover]

#GripIsNOTaRaidBuff

lmao

fuu did sub get the hidden buff this patch or not ?

[zenith prism]

Ah I see. As a Chinese, I'm so confused

[spark plover]

remember seen on your spreadsheet something about sub getting hidin buff on ptr , it is now on live ?

[vale pine]

No

[alpine wraith]

i hope the symbols are not random but are they?

[vale pine]

they realized before release

[alpine wraith]

as a chinese do they mean anything

or is it just a meme

[short radish]

my home cooked pastas are google translate

but my limited chinese knowledge says the dk one is just random shit

[meager coyote]

admitedly

I do want abo limb back on bloodk

[zenith prism]

mostly is

[meager coyote]

removing utility from tanks is just bad for everyone

[alpine wraith]

they could give gorefiend 2 charges

[vale pine]

google tanslate says they are not random, e.g. the initial word translates to "hello everyone" and the second phrase translates to "very important". But its hard to know if these make sense in the way they are used

google translate is not exactly good for memes

[meager coyote]

also, weird question to all you lovely people

[swift tinsel]

my favorite kind

[meager coyote]

does anyone happen to have some kinda belt reminder weakaura that pops up on idfk ready checks or whatever cos God knows I will end up with wrong belt in raid/keys/different specs

[zenith prism]

各位大家好，sorry I ping you but this very 很重要 thing = Hello everyone, sorry I ping you but this is very import thing

[short radish]

just go through and update your saved gear sets now

and delete all your old belts

[meager coyote]

gear sets don't save different belt modes tho do they??

[zenith prism]

random translation of some words in a complete sentence

[short radish]

oh right i forget theres different modes

[meager coyote]

ye

that's my problem

[short radish]

assi and sub use the same though

or just run the crit one

[meager coyote]

nah

and also other classes

kekw

[swift tinsel]

shouldn't be hard to make one that loads in an instance for a few seconds/minute

that just says "check belt" or something

[vale pine]

I see it a lot with the ai or low effort google translate wave most meme sites atm have

[swift tinsel]

if you're familiar with weakauras

[vale pine]

german memes are almost 100% of the times not how a german would write it

[swift tinsel]

hit us with a german meme

[meager coyote]

on a very basic level, thought maybe someone already had one that's more advanced (ready checks or w.e)

[formal helm]

they don't have those, they take jokes very seriously, ja

[meager coyote]

german humor is no laughing business guys

[formal helm]

ja.

[meager coyote]

Naturlich

[swift tinsel]

https://wago.io/TitanBeltCheck

found that on wago pretty quick

[meager coyote]

xoxo

[formal helm]

loved opening this channel to a spam of chinese memes

[vale pine]

haha, think we had enough memes for today, another day maybe

[swift tinsel]

fair enough lol

[meager coyote]

ah seems cooked

[swift tinsel]

check load conditions

[meager coyote]

nah

think it uses

lower ilvl item ID

ye fixed it

by re-tpying the item name

[swift tinsel]

should be able to fix with triggers then

ah nice

otherwise was going to recommend getting idTip and changing item id in triggers if that's what it used

[meager coyote]

doesn't seem to work on player_equipment_changed

but that's not a big deal

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/german-germany-flag-flagge-fahne-gif-12228915

[honest grail]

Ïs the belt out this week

[keen dome]

It was out last week.

You can upgrade it this week.

[hollow plinth]

@short radish nice filter

almost banned you

[alpine wraith]

aay

almost rick rolled to the grave

[lilac stag]

I feel slightly responsible. Tempted by doggo picture

[brittle plinth]

Is there any sense in using shuriken storm during our big cds window, to spread find weakness (via rotten) ? it seems to do slightly ahead on dummies but I suspect something obvious is missing.

other than blowing both charges of rotten by sending 1st

[remote shuttle]

2nd buffed by rotten builder in aoe Is good

Not as 1st cuz It consumes all rotten buff charges (Is a known bug, Wish they Will fix...)

[brittle plinth]

right

ty

[remote shuttle]

Np yw

[swift tinsel]

the ol' Strike Sectech Storm BP

[neon frigate]

Hey guys allround question. If a mount drops from a mythic legavy raid. Do you still need to roll for the mount or is it some kind of personal drop?

[swift tinsel]

pretty sure its all personal loot

for legacy content

you can still bonus roll for some of the old ones if you still have tokens

[patent lichen]

Need everything every time

[short radish]

In hindsight, doing that not even a week after whispyr had his account scuffed was not smart

But I'm also not smart

[lilac stag]

duh. You play sub rogue.

[short radish]

[candid mural]

The new DH specc is actually just a sub rogue rework. Even wears our old tier set. Uses Shaodwstep and Secret Technique xD

[runic trail]

Waiting on the voidstrike and voiddance ability to be added

[swift tinsel]

that has to be the worst cobbled-together transmog set

for a boss

that I've ever seen

[keen dome]

Yeah it looks like shit lmao

[swift tinsel]

colors all over the place

[keen dome]

makes sense though

[swift tinsel]

no cohesive theme

[keen dome]

he's a DH

[swift tinsel]

true

[candid mural]

well he#s blind, you know^^

[swift tinsel]

Imma pull up on him on my yak so he can rethink his attire

[lilac stag]

[hexed sluice]

Subs in BTM again, any triple sub rogue enjoyers?

[vale pine]

XD

[swift tinsel]

that's gotta be a placeholder model

I'm convinced

[lucid atlas]

how can i get crit chain

[hazy breach]

If you hover over it ingame it will tell you

In the belt menu

[lucid atlas]

thanks!

[velvet linden]

Does sub not use the belt or is my sim just slightly wrong ?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/e7xtsvMzuwYsXE673pG2ab

[hazy breach]

Are you simming with charged bolts

[swift tinsel]

looks like its the lightning rod one

[velvet linden]

Lightning rod

[hazy breach]

Ye get the crit or vers one

Lightning ones were nerfed by like 50% on reset

And stat ones buffed

[velvet linden]

ahh fair enough, ty

[keen dome]

It's a lot of crit

[vale pine]

its rly good and we don't run high amount of crit

[hollow spear]

I recrafted some pieces to crit/vers a couple of weeks ago

I am in shambles now thanks to crit chain

[keen dome]

I hit 15% crit from swapping to the blet so it's just real good

[hollow spear]

Have to do 15 gem resims at least

[keen dome]

I also run pacemaker though, so crit city

[dry plank]

It’s easier to add new spec than rework sub rogue so no big expectations on next xpac

[warm depot]

wheres my kyveza spec madge

[delicate wind]

So you’re saying reroll dh? Hah

[hollow spear]

Imo we don't need much of a rework. They just have to fix hard caps in general and find a way to balance soft caps between specs. It's not like we're the only spec that struggles with large scale aoe. There's quite a few with exactly the same problem.

[lilac stag]

Try Felhammer

[keen dome]

New spec isn't real. nope.

No evidence, nothing.

[swift tinsel]

wait

[keen dome]

it cannot hrut me

[swift tinsel]

you mean to tell me

that colored spell icons don't directly confirm a new spec?!?!?!

[keen dome]

we painted illidan purple: job done

[swift tinsel]

in a world where the same spec got different colored icons

that were found in the same manor as purple meta icon

[lilac stag]

They decolored flag, so coloring something does confirm this

[swift tinsel]

grey rogue inc

[warm depot]

madge

[swift tinsel]

see our new tier set

[lilac stag]

Already exists. Sub rogue dmg compared to other specs

[swift tinsel]

kekw

[keen dome]

lmao, dman

damn, even.

Walked into that one, but it's a strong one

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-hi-hy-hey-gif-8520159980767013609

[keen dome]

I should re-watch that movie

[fleet hearth]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[haughty mural]

@random hare I get sent this screenshot from a mage friend and he asks if sub is op
Can you sandbag a little bit pls

[vale pine]

[haughty mural]

I can tell you those guys really believe it

[hazy breach]

Its third

[haughty mural]

That’s what I told them

[hazy breach]

Like literally in the screenshot its last on the dps

[sullen hare]

conveniently cropped image

[swift tinsel]

must have screenshot right as sectech hit those adds lol

[serene notch]

Being first on any pull is unallowable ~ that arcane mage probably

[swift tinsel]

billy has no cds up

[haughty mural]

Yes

[dry plank]

It was such a nice dream to wait kyveza animations on sub! 😦
Damage will be tuned 100500 times so dw

[random hare]

idk ptr is lagging abit

i think i can do alot more but its rly bad still

i only fked up 1 set of cds

[void hound]

are shocker counted in logs on mug zee

or no?

i didnt follow the developments

[hollow spear]

Not since 11.1.7

[void hound]

thanks

do the rocketeers count?

[hollow spear]

Not sure, should find that info in a current mug log

They usually tell you there

[runic trail]

Asked if I can try sub for the first 2 bosses of reclear only to find out we have no fucking shaman

pls

I beg

[alpine wraith]

aaaaaaaaaa

[runic trail]

[void hound]

looks like its counted

[runic trail]

Well, got a 37 mythic log, but considering its my first time bringing this to raid AND no shaman buff, I'll take it I guess.

Though the cauldron log bug is a thing

[keen dome]

Ye. Well done though

[runic trail]

I only said I'll try sub so I can see how the shaman buff feels

AND THE SHAMAN ISN'T HERE

[keen dome]

shamans

can't trust 'em

[runic trail]

I get to the boss where I don't feel comfortable on sub, fucking shaman comes back

I SEE HOW IT IS

YOU FUCK

[keen dome]

hahaha

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/cinema-gif-5935759059195122434

[runic trail]

I hate my guild sometimes ._.

[daring raptor]

Am i tripping or something or is the new belt worse for sub?

than just a vers mas or crit vers belt

[alpine wraith]

change enchant on it to crit

[daring raptor]

oh damn

thought it was first on wednesday the tuning was coming

i have too much crit now what is this

22%

[haughty mural]

[swift tinsel]

new build inc apparently, plz be new 4pc implementation

[daring raptor]

?
for ptr or for live?

[swift tinsel]

ptr

[alpine wraith]

someone told me 4p was fixed im going to try it this weekend and see

[swift tinsel]

it is, in that you can cast 2nd coup now

but it still blocks eb stacks

which is the part I'm hoping they change

[alpine wraith]

likely it still will

[warm marlin]

i mean realz said the trickster 2p was under heavy consideration

[swift tinsel]

but I don't want it tooooo

[warm marlin]

im hopeful it will be changed

[alpine wraith]

maybe it can give extra escalating stacks

[swift tinsel]

I'm curious what direction they'd take it

[alpine wraith]

the 2p was stinky for sure

almost any change can be good

[warm marlin]

escalating just really really needs to stack to 8

[swift tinsel]

6 or 8

[warm marlin]

would solve most of the issues

[alpine wraith]

8 would be hype but unlikely

[swift tinsel]

would you still have it consume 4

so you can bank 2

well, 4 casts with 4pc in that case

[warm marlin]

with my testing yesterday, if you are also attempting to hold coup for dance you can get screwed by the coup requiring fazed thing as well

[swift tinsel]

but yeah having stack insurance would be nice if they're not gonna change it

yeah ran into that a few times as well

[warm marlin]

and then you send sectec to put fazed up

[swift tinsel]

and lose a stack

[warm marlin]

thus ensuring you burn both your unseen procs while coup is up

[swift tinsel]

yep

real feelsbadman

which sucks because holding coups for dance/flag is pretty strong

[warm marlin]

alternative: you proc coup maybe 7 seconds before dance timer

black powder to spend

then chain proc 2p procs with coup ready

and munch 3 unseen blades

its so cooked

oh let me spend coup outside dance instead

oh i have no energy

[swift tinsel]

dude that part has been annoying

having to send 3cp coups

bc you can't build enough

and don't wanna waste it

[warm marlin]

there's literally no way around it outside of like pooling sht outside of cds

so you can coup backstab with like 4sht

and then your fazed falls off because you're pooling OR you munch unseen blade procs

like why does the spender of escalating blade require proccing escalating blade shortly beforehand?

[chrome palm]

I feel like the fazed requirement does not need to exist

It doesn’t add anything

[warm marlin]

it also seems like proccing sht at 3 unseen blade stacks in cds is just bad

[chrome palm]

Fazed in general is really weird

[warm marlin]

im wondering if when you have like 3 seconds left in dance, 7 sht, 3 unseen blade and a disorienting proc ready

its probably optimal to shadowstrike at full cp to proc coup, then coup coup

idk seems like with the current limitations there's a ton more complexity

[austere tangle]

anyone know the simc code to permanently set ur eye of kezan at 10 stacks? like start the sim w/ 10 stacks instead of build it

[chrome palm]

I was thinking something similar because consuming sht with eviscerate feels really bad when you’re gonna have coup after

Had a lot of instances of only one coup in dance and the 2nd after

I was also using dance for the first coup and only supercharging the 2nd one so I have it for sec tech

When you have coup before non blades dance

[warm marlin]

i had it before lemme see if i can find it

[swift tinsel]

this actually sounds kinda decent, I'm gonna have to play around with that a bit

have either of you tried out only running 2 charges of symbols

feels way less restrictive than I was expecting

[daring raptor]

problem is you are losing 3 % extra dmg

don't think that extra point in finality is gonna make up for those 3%

[chrome palm]

2 sod sounds bad for tfd

[swift tinsel]

current best db build only uses 1/2

[chrome palm]

If you’re looking to triple dance

[swift tinsel]

it comes back up right as you're going into third dance

iirc its not until 2nd dance after flag that you have to wait at all for symbols and even then its like 5-7 seconds

[chrome palm]

But you might be wasting flawless form

You keep those flawless form stacks for a little bit

Since you usually get another double coup near the end of blades

[warm marlin]

should be this:

raid_events+=/buff,buff_name=eye_of_kezan,stacks=20,first=0,cooldown=99999

[alpine wraith]

the idea is to not int our extra unseens that give escalating

we feel all the wastage on our hearts

praydge for 2p change

[swift tinsel]

yeah thats like my only big ask for the rest of ptr for sub

[chrome palm]

The tier bonuses for rogue just show how clunky all the hero talents are

[warm marlin]

your third dance with tfd can be as early as 24s

or 23

youd have to hold for a few seconds

which ig without current tier isnt the end of the world but

you're missing an eviscerate in flag (and with all the extra cdr from new tier you certainly would have your third dance timing much earlier)

[chrome palm]

Did anyone notice how easy it was to proc tfd using the macro

It felt super consistent compared to live

It worked every time I tried it

[austere tangle]

legend

[austere tangle]

dude

this thing is +700k on 10t

wtf

[swift tinsel]

[warm marlin]

yeah its goated full stacked

[fleet hearth]

hi, what is the best enhancement for head now ? is Echoing void still bugged ?

for raid and m+ content

[hazy breach]

Void ritual or gushing wounds

Doesnt matter much

[fleet hearth]

i just checked the pins mb ty !

[tulip gorge]

I'm free, I killed mythic gally

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[runic trail]

Congrats!

[steel sierra]

Going to swap from Rotten to 1/2 Finality. We're still going to pre use SoD, correct? Just that the 20-25 seconds before timing doesn't matter anymore?

[hazy breach]

It doesnt really matter with rotten either

The vast majority of the value is the supercharge

[clever delta]

i feel like that 2p bonus is kinda joke

its all about 4p

[warm marlin]

the 2p enhances the power of the 4set a lot

and unseen blade is kinda blasting

[clever delta]

did i read it wrong

i think i read it wrong 😄

[swift tinsel]

yeah the 30% damage buff feels notable fs

there's just some friction with the extra UB resets

[clever delta]

30% chance to refresh its cooldown immediately.

i remembered only this

for some reason

[swift tinsel]

yeah and that 30% doesn't have an icd or anything so the resets can reset

[warm marlin]

from hitting a dummy yesterday for 7mins

unseen almost as high as blades

[clever delta]

yeah sure

its just we already have random reset of unseen

and we extra chance

which feels dumb

[hazy breach]

I think its fine to spice up our out of cds gameplay with some more procs

[clever delta]

yeah for sure

[hazy breach]

But it kinda doesnt do anything during burst which feels a bit bad

Since we already have disorienting strikes on most builders

[swift tinsel]

it does though make the non-dance coups feel pretty bad if you don't have banked sht

[clever delta]

but hitting stab and being like "maybe i proc extra unseen"

not so cool for me

[hazy breach]

But ye 2p is likely to see changes

[hazy breach]

Idk just dont finish at 6+

[clever delta]

just pull energy for non dance coup

but do we really need to use non dance coup tho

[swift tinsel]

yeah that's what I've ended up doing, just feels kinda stinky but the extra cp baked in works out

[hazy breach]

A coup at 2 CP is like a 7cp finisher, so its still good

[swift tinsel]

yeah

just need to rewire the noggin a bit after only finishing at 6+

[clever delta]

cant wait for finisher rules in dance

[swift tinsel]

and those aren't terribly common

[clever delta]

so far im doing Sectech coup coup

idk if i should not do coup sectech coup

[swift tinsel]

you're wasting 2 eb stacks that way

if you aren't getting sht refunds on them

[warm marlin]

coup sectec coup is a possibility but you really need timely sht procs

[clever delta]

yeah idk i did not really think about it

[warm marlin]

or else your coup is going to run out

[hazy breach]

Youre likely to get a reset anyway

[swift tinsel]

yeah depending on where in the window you are, was only testing without skyfury which would help

coup into a reset coup feels real nice tho

[hazy breach]

Like ye i agree the wasted stack feels kinda bad but im fairly sure we just strike anyway and dont care about it

[clever delta]

hope so

[swift tinsel]

I think you're right, losing 2 coups + 2 free coups over the course of a 5min fight doesn't sound game-breaking

[clever delta]

dont want to feel overcooked

[hazy breach]

Because building to 14 sht is too much

[swift tinsel]

ye

I need to get a bigger sample size for the wasted ones

to get a better idea

[hazy breach]

Maybe you do some build to 4/5 sht to try to have it proc after the sectech so you can go sectech > strike > coup > coup or some shit