subtlety

[keen dome]

I should get back to running my own.

[vocal wolf]

What Ilevel?

[runic trail]

I need to start logging , just so I can have something I can feed into wowanalyzer

[runic trail]

683

[formal helm]

just go hc

worst case scenario use one button rotation or highlight assisstant

[keen dome]

I have some LFR logs if you want to look at some haha

[vocal wolf]

You'll be fiiine

[keen dome]

Seriously though, you'll be fine. You know the fights. Which is more than a lot of people in Heroic will know.

[sweet turret]

That is why I asked, why black powder is not working with it
Would be very nice!

[vocal wolf]

Like gally dies even with goobers like this

They let me fix my parse so I didn't mind tho

[keen dome]

I should go finish my LFR parses

[vocal wolf]

LMAO

Pls no

[keen dome]

It's important work

[vocal wolf]

Not the lfr parses

[sweet turret]

Imagine black powder working with Deathstalker and more shadow DMG buffs to make us use finality & dark brew

[keen dome]

I must get 99 on everything except Mythic (where it arguably matters) because mythic is scary

[vocal wolf]

Lmfao who is logging my lfr kills

[keen dome]

me

[vocal wolf]

[fallow nimbus]

98 in lfr

[keen dome]

i'm pretty good at this video game

wait those are the wrong ones

[runic trail]

I was praying someone would log but doesn't look like it, did top damage but like, its LFR, thats a low fuckin' bar to clear

[vocal wolf]

Paladin sniped my hyenas

[keen dome]

They love doing that

[vocal wolf]

At least I have 99 stix on hero kek

Like many many weeks ago

[keen dome]

high5

I love my Stix 99's. They're a really funny duality of clear.

[runic trail]

No logs, but does the damage breakdown seem kind of as it should be?

Waiting to be told there's a main ability I completely forgot to hit

[vocal wolf]

Yeah bro why you not hitting DFA (/jk)

[runic trail]

They took it away from me

[vocal wolf]

True

[formal helm]

where bp

[vocal wolf]

LMAO

[runic trail]

On my bars but gathering dust

[formal helm]

someone mentioned dust?!

[runic trail]

shit

[formal helm]

[keen dome]

Oh no

[runic trail]

WHAT HAVE I DONE

[formal helm]

[keen dome]

reset our cooldowns

[sacred yarrow]

[runic trail]

You can run logs on training dummies, right? Tempted to just spend some time smacking them and seeing what wowanalyzer says

[keen dome]

Is it even setup for Sub?

[runic trail]

...I dunno.

That was my next stupid question but I'm trying to space out my stupid questions.

Lest I drown the channel

[vocal wolf]

Hold on ping fuu and guy

Let's start it up again

Round 2

[tepid trellis]

it is not setup for sub

[runic trail]

Ah, fair! At least I can get some logs to post in here potentially.

I think I have the basics sort of down, need to work on consistency but there's definitely gonna be some things I'm messing up that I'm not realising

[formal helm]

happens

but you're probably good to go in any content even like that

[runic trail]

Yeah, only started dabbling in it a few days back so, gonna be dogshit. Got 2.3mil on LFR gally which ain't great but, its enough for heroic pugs easily.

[formal helm]

yep.

altho I hate that fight for some reason

just weirdge.

[clever delta]

is the 4set bonus broken on ptr?:

i keep using evis but the coup buff is still there

[formal helm]

yes

[vocal wolf]

Infinite coup or just doesn't trigger it?

[lilac stag]

or …

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[lime anchor]

i get that the 4 piece is bugged...but like, is it even gonna be good? seems pretty crap compared to like shams and stuff. and coup aint even that strong

[hollow spear]

It's going to be strong

We don't know how strong, but strong

[keen dome]

A big part of it's strength will be the CDR it'll provide.

[lime anchor]

hopefully they give a l il rework, i hate how bad sub is when our all outta shadowdance

[final granite]

Like thats the whole kit of Sub, every 30 sec burst windows

[lime anchor]

yea but when u cant even pull 500k dps for a good 30 seconds cuz ur outta shadow strikes ur dps drops pretty good

[hollow spear]

That's heresy

[final granite]

yeah I smell issue somewhere else

[hollow spear]

That's why the 12 people who play sub like the class

[lime anchor]

well im 2800 sub so i know how to play , let me see ur dps with no shadow dance

[hollow spear]

Who gives a shit?

[final granite]

^

[lime anchor]

people who play rogue is more than just world content

[hollow spear]

If they give us more damage outside of cooldowns, they have to take it away from our cooldowns

[vocal wolf]

[hollow spear]

Nobody wants that

[lime anchor]

na h theres a reason why their one of the worst dps classes right now

[grave delta]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow spear]

Ok I cba discussing with you, your opinion is just wrong

[final granite]

I will respect and ignore your subjective opinion

[lime anchor]

thats fine, yall can cry about my opinion all u want lmao

[final granite]

Nothing objective here, pure waste of time

[lime anchor]

bye bye

[keen dome]

If you give Sub more damage out of cooldowns then cooldowns will have to do less damage and we just become a more flat spec. I think it's fine to have downtime. But like, more CDR = more Dances and SecTecs. So the tier set could provide that if you thought about it.

[vocal wolf]

I'm not one to be toxic, but flexing 2800 is kinda crazy

Js

Not even got the mount yet

[lime anchor]

rogue is my main but yet my alt shaman is 3k lmao

so that tells u howw crap sub is

[keen dome]

okay

[ornate current]

That tells me you are in the wrong class discord

[lime anchor]

just here to find out if they change something about sub, theres a reason all the top rogues went mut

[vocal wolf]

Might I suggest

[cold kernel]

Not really, if hes 2800 this late in the season, he desperatly needs to be in this discord

[lime anchor]

yea, here to see if they buff what needs to be buffed

qq

cry more

[keen dome]

Sub is fine right now, though.

[hollow spear]

Isn't 2800 just farming for weekly vault?

[ornate current]

No one wants that stop projecting

[keen dome]

Nah, that'd be 2k or 2.5k at most.

[hollow spear]

I'm at 2800 and I haven't pushed a single key this season

[hazy breach]

Sub is alright in keys

[lime anchor]

im sure u is big dawg

[hazy breach]

Not the best, but far from the worst

[runic trail]

2987, not pushed, just did 12s for the dinar possibility and one 13 that I got FUCKING TRICKED INTO DOING

[vocal wolf]

I'm about there on sin xd

[cold kernel]

2800 doesnt even break top 5 on my chars.

[lime anchor]

so u get carried lmao, u have teams, i dont

[cold kernel]

and im not even good

[dry plank]

Sub is good in keys just assa and outlul better

[lime anchor]

sub is good compared to aug lmao

[ornate current]

Here we go .... Its ome of those

[keen dome]

Do you just hate DFC? hahaha

[vocal wolf]

Outlul is great I'ma use that

[keen dome]

Powerful 15 though

[hazy breach]

Literally wrong

[vocal wolf]

No I just play outlaw lol

Just haven't done it

[keen dome]

I assumed

[cold kernel]

just preference or you think sub is meh in dfc?

[hollow spear]

Has to be ragebait

[lime anchor]

oh bunch of non subbers in here no wonder why they all crying aobut what im saying they dont want sub to take the rogue #1 spot ROFLLLLLLLLLL

[hazy breach]

Sub is amazing on the only part of the key thats hard, candleking

But the overall is lower than assa or outlaw

[vocal wolf]

Honestly sub is just fine

[lime anchor]

and just about every other dps

[keen dome]

huh

[cold kernel]

yeah sure overall is gonna be lower, was just wondering cause sub feels good there, to me, that is

[hollow spear]

iGestalt gets seizures if he logs into anything that's not a sub rogue

Clear non subber

[keen dome]

That's not true, I have some Assa logs

Because one night I forgot to swap out of it and went "oh well"

[lime anchor]

noone cares lmao

[dry plank]

You should not go that way. Here is a lot of sub enjoyers and a lot talented tc which are top players on sub.

[void hound]

i tried to play some assa but its such a snoozefest in raid

[sick geode]

Well, this discord has been an eye opener in the first ten minutes

I’ve clearly wasted three weeks learning sub…

Started TWW start of this month, what spec should I be for m+

outlaw?

[keen dome]

Sub if you wanna play it.

[dry plank]

You need learn to play and enjoy spec or reroll to other spec class

[hollow spear]

Play aug

[hazy breach]

Play sub if you want to play sub

[hollow spear]

Literally better than sub

[runic trail]

But its less purple

[keen dome]

Like - Sub is in a good spot. You probably won't play it in 18/19/20 keys. But like, if you need to ask what to play you probably aren't doing them right now anyway. So play the spec you enjoy. If you wanna be Sub, be sub.

[void hound]

how was it a waste if you wanted to play the spec

[runic trail]

If you're not pushing for title, just play what you find fun.

[sick geode]

Everyone’s saying it’s whack, though 😂

[runic trail]

Like

Its fine

[hazy breach]

No sub is good

Just not the best

[alpine wraith]

sub is very entertaining

if you like it

[hazy breach]

Very different from being bad

[lime anchor]

sub is fun as hell it just is terrible when ur outta shadow dances

[lilac stag]

Just don’t suck at it. Those are the people saying it’s whack.

[dry plank]

Sub is good even in top 19keys so if you like sub play sub

[hollow spear]

Everyone is saying it's whack?

[alpine wraith]

yea we are above average in all content except pvp

[hollow spear]

There's literally only one clown here saying that

[sick geode]

Yeah it’s a fun spec to play, but I’m aiming to start pushing keys

[lime anchor]

and when u have a tank constant chain pulling or in a raid and the fights are l ong u run out of dances quick

[hazy breach]

Ok so

[alpine wraith]

that is not how sub works

arguably we are least affected by chain pulling

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/frankly-thats-a-skill-issue-hazzikostas-ion-ion-hazzikostas-skill-issue-gif-21595688

[vocal wolf]

It is perfectly fine, it excels at its niche which is absurd burst windows which is great for some fights (last boss of rookery comes to mind for me)

[sick geode]

Maybe I’m skim reading & getting the wrong impression

[keen dome]

You are, ye. You joined at an interesting moment, haha.

[lilac stag]

So any time?

[vocal wolf]

LMAO

[hollow spear]

Meh, some entertainment on a hot afternoon

[lime anchor]

i run the first dance and that lone makes dance last long enough i can almost get it fully recharged before it runs out, if a tank is chain pulling i dont get this and the 4 sec less is very noticable

[lilac stag]

bring on kyveza DH spec.

[hollow spear]

Make shadow dance baseline

[void hound]

bring in kyveza sub rework

[dry plank]

What key lvl are you planing to push? Sub is fine for very high keys

[lilac stag]

You mean finish the rework.

[void hound]

any day bro trust

[vocal wolf]

Surely

[lilac stag]

If the rework it again, with same completion rate, we lose another 70% of our talents

[ornate current]

Thats literally the point dude, thats what the majority of sub players wanted... What are you on about ??? Go play outlaw

[lime anchor]

nah ill stay sub

thanks tho

[void hound]

that would still leave us with dead talents

[sick geode]

Honestly I don’t have an aim,
I’ve done a couple 10/11’s

[lime anchor]

"this is what we wanted, we wanted to run out of dances so we can pull 300k dps for 3 0 seconds"

[warm marlin]

My damage on sub in keys is mildly lower than outlaw

And outlaw is very very strong

It’s perfectly fine

[flat turtle]

do you even play sub ?

[hollow spear]

But what about your damage outside of dances?

[lilac stag]

Not purple enough

[hollow spear]

Enlighten us pls @warm marlin

[dry plank]

Then you completely fine playing on sub bro. It is very good, you just need fine comp. Dh and shaman preferably and you could do up to 19 easy

[lime anchor]

they dont even need to up the damage out of dances, just make it so when u backstab u dont have to sepnd 20 seconds trying to get combo points and lose everything u just gained

[keen dome]

If you are running out of dances I think you are making mistakes because you should be able to have cooldowns and stuff when needed. It's relatively easy to do very competitive damage in keys, esp as packs last longer and longer.

[vocal wolf]

I've run a few keys where I was getting schooled by sub rogue (tank was waiting for tfd but still was some absurd damage)

[lime anchor]

after 2 dance su outta energy and ur just waiting 5 seconds to backstab run out of energy u now have 3 combo poitns waiting 5 more second to stab for another combo point LMAOoO

[warm marlin]

Yea it’s garbage but that’s what the spec is

[hollow spear]

Nah, just poking fun

I know and I'm fine

[void hound]

ragebaiting in #subtlety just to feel something

[keen dome]

Confusing all six of us for a few minutes

[hollow spear]

Back to the mines boys

[vocal wolf]

Par for the course no?

[void hound]

yes, everyone here is part of a psyop to make it seem like people play this spec

[ornate current]

Sorry man i must not be too low rated we cant all be 2.8k elite m plusers

[keen dome]

We are? oh no

[void hound]

part of the ship, part of the crew

[lilac stag]

Sub does plenty of damage. Treat the entire key as one big boss fight and not individual trash packs.

[warm marlin]

if you’re backstabbing at the end of a key pack instead of stacking sht I will find you

[lilac stag]

and give them kisses?

[warm marlin]

🤐

[vocal wolf]

You don't kiss your homies goodnight? Smh my head

[swift tinsel]

jk, unless...

[vocal wolf]

Need some more hot takes up in here

https://tenor.com/view/cmon-gif-372569189493173744

[sharp lake]

they should give Shuriken Toss the ranged auto attacks part back for better shadow techniques uptime

[vocal wolf]

How do y'all feel about all 3 rogue specs just being Blade/Nimble/Poison Flurry

[void hound]

stacking SHT on a coup proc before flag is a dps gain right

[vocal wolf]

I forgot about this hahaha

[void hound]

horrible, homogenization went too far

[swift tinsel]

its whatever, not great but a bandaid

there's times its okay but I'd like aoe to be a bit more fleshed out

[runic trail]

My endless battle trying to get warcraft logs working on the target dummy continues

[vestal escarp]

The game itself doesnt want to be fleshed out

[swift tinsel]

did you end the log

[runic trail]

I thought I did

[vestal escarp]

Homogenization is the way its taking

[swift tinsel]

are you using the in-game app or wcl uploader

[runic trail]

WCL uploader

[swift tinsel]

the uploader acts weird for me

[vestal escarp]

It's only various degrees of keeping up

[swift tinsel]

personally

[runic trail]

But yeah its just picking up some random DK hitting a different target dummy

[swift tinsel]

I usually use the in-game app and it's been more reliable

oh yeah it'll do that

just filter yourself

[runic trail]

WHERE'S MY INSTANCED TARGET DUMMY, GAME?

PLEASE

[swift tinsel]

seriously though

that would be so amazing

[ornate current]

I agree but also sub and sin had really dogshit aoe gameplay before it

[swift tinsel]

D4 has one

[ornate current]

Especially sub

[swift tinsel]

and its really nice

[ornate current]

It was 2 button spam

[vocal wolf]

BP spam ftw

[runic trail]

instanced target dummy that lets you do buffs etc

it'd be so nice

[swift tinsel]

you can set what kind(s) of dummies and how many

[vocal wolf]

I played sub in keys for S2 df was such a snooze fest haha

[runic trail]

But yeah, logged it, for some reason it hasn't collected half of my things

[swift tinsel]

yeah having raid buffs so you can see more contextualized info

where are you logging?

[runic trail]

Like, hello, please

[swift tinsel]

the org dummy by the old brawler's guild entrance is my go-to bc its way less crowded most of the time

[runic trail]

May try there

[swift tinsel]

just be mindful of the pvp dummy

[lucid jackal]

Can try the silvermoon ones

[swift tinsel]

^

those are usually fairly empty too

[lucid jackal]

Or just like, get any of the training dummy toys and put those down anywhere

[runic trail]

Finally had a good attempt where I didn't beef my opener, and it doesn't work

[swift tinsel]

[runic trail]

!log

[tepid trellis]

need to check it for overkill

thats the same one you posted but with overkill turned on

[runic trail]

Ah

Okay, that makes more sense, thank you!

[formal helm]

see you guys had fun with the m+ pusher

[lucid jackal]

Damn that looks like mm with that burst

[runic trail]

pls no judge i'm new to this

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/crow-of-judgement-judgement-bird-army-intensefies-gif-20318504

[runic trail]

pls

[vocal wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/imabesavingthatforlater-imabesavingthat4later-imabesavingthat-ima-be-saving-that-ima-be-saving-that-for-later-gif-16548514061732001937

[wary plover]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rough geyser]

Any rogues here notice critting inconsistently with finality procs?

I swear sometimes i pop a 2mill and then next rotation exact same modifiers up/wep procs and its 1.3

[dull shale]

hello, can i play deathstalker as a sub or its just bad ?

[frosty stag]

no it's bad

[vale pine]

there is no reason to play it

if you rly want to, can do

[dull shale]

Ok ok ty

[final granite]

ye this alone tells me Rogue is just ur alt and you don't know how to play it

[vocal wolf]

Oh we're back

[sick geode]

Why does this happen every time I open this discord? 😂

[latent finch]

https://tenor.com/view/were-back-its-over-gif-24400541

[vocal wolf]

It's great isn't it?

Makes work pass by faster for me

[sly shore]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[runic trail]

The important thing is, I'm beatng the one button rotaton on dummies.

So, it could be worse.

[brittle plinth]

Jokes on you, I can't even beat dummies.

Sub AoE needs the following:

1. Secret tech kills every mob within 5000 yards.
2. More bugs

[vale pine]

please not more bugs, i am not a big fan of insects

[left ledge]

Been a while since shadowstep made us fall through the world

Let’s time walk back to that

[shrewd lantern]

The best was you didnt die

due to catlike negating fall damage

[runic trail]

its not a bug, its a free teleport to westfall

silver lining

[left ledge]

And while we do that somehow make something else bug Shadowcraft out

[left ledge]

If only

I got locked out of a raid night in nathria

Because I was on unstuck cd

[brittle plinth]

#subtlety message

[vocal wolf]

LMAO

[left ledge]

Ah they beat me to it

[alpine wraith]

that is the rite of initiation to rogue now

used to be only sub

now assa can also enjoy its prowess

[sacred yarrow]

even that they took from us

[north schooner]

they should make secret technique a real secret and show nothing on your screen when you press it

[shrewd lantern]

assa has always had step

albeit only 1 charge

[alpine wraith]

you woudl be trolling hard to get step on tbc or wrath

as assa

well maybe in pvp

[shrewd lantern]

wrath

👴

[steel zinc]

any reason why the versa one is not better then the crit one next week?

[vale pine]

they are both very close

so both are fine

[steel zinc]

Assuming the crit one has a higher variance or?

[vale pine]

its more that we have a lot of vers already

so crit gives slightly more benefits

[charred sandal]

they should make evis have DFA animation with the animlock included

[swift tinsel]

so symbols can consume marks during DN but finishers still can't lol

so if you wanna completely ruin your burst later you can game marks and supercharged cp to send a string of supercharged dn evisc sectech dn evisc lol

[tribal blade]

i just tried using the 1 button rotation on the cleave target dummies as sin

this thing is really bad

[thick temple]

Is it possible to have too little haste lol the only haste I get is from headpiece tier set. Sometimes I try to resocket my gear and raidbots will tell me to use vers+haste gems or crithaste gems

[lucid jackal]

link sim

[sly shore]

Ya, did you know you can find spoons in the kitchen

[tribal blade]

WHAT

WHAT IS THIS HIDDEN TECH

[sly shore]

[tribal blade]

damn you weren't lying

[bleak night]

wow i never knew spoons were so versatile

[tribal blade]

no shot

[swift tinsel]

Propaganda from Big Spoon

[bleak night]

where can i meet big spoon

asking for a friend

[swift tinsel]

If I knew that I wouldn't be here my guy

certainly wouldn't be backstabbing a dummy for an hour to verify 2pc reset rates (its pretty much right on 30% +/- ~0.7%, tested without Thousand Cuts or casting Sectech for Disorienting Strikes)

[vocal wolf]

Idk but you can meet big Sppon in the Kitchen

[swift tinsel]

also I have a feeling the execute trinket will be pretty decent

[tropic pier]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

not flaming this lock btw, don't blame him in the slightest

it's just stupid how unbalanced the utility aspect of this game is between classes

[tribal blade]

i finally finished resil 18

now on to not getting invited to 19s 🙂

[chrome palm]

https://tenor.com/view/satan-devil-hell-darklord-suffer-gif-8384910

[vocal wolf]

You forgot cheap!

You finally are fufilling the prophecy

[tribal blade]

yup it happened fast

[vocal wolf]

ALREADY

LMAOOOO

[plush roost]

Dw next season they made priory more annoying (yes the ground overlaps with the aoe cast)

[tribal blade]

wait wtf are those ground effects

[vocal wolf]

Too much X-Lax

[plush roost]

He doesn't throw spears anymore on ptr, he instead drops puddles that last the entire fight

[tribal blade]

GROSS

[vocal wolf]

I mean the spears were a bit buggy but why?

Maybe just to shake things up?

[tribal blade]

i guess the spear mechanic was a non mechanic

you had to be blind to get hit by it

[vocal wolf]

I mean this isnt either

[vocal wolf]

sometimes it just hit people not in the line

[plush roost]

In high keys you may have to pull differently to accomodate space and also makes lynx/sharpshooters onto boss more annoying

On its own its nothing tho, unless you get ground into savage mauling instantly

Which i think will happen

[vocal wolf]

Is the drop centered on him or a target?

[prime glen]

is zee's thug hotline the go-to now? do we just forget about eye of kezan for single target?

i feel like a lot of the logs show zee and seaforiums over eye these days

[vocal wolf]

Eye is only really good for long fights

Cant speak for the specifics of sub but this is a general thing

[tribal blade]

i'm guessing the new melt pot will come in very handy there

[prime glen]

damn, guess ill have to pick up the zee

thx

[vocal wolf]

I'd confirm with a sub main before locking that in, was just my 2 copper

[tribal blade]

eye of kezan is kind of a useless trinket now

unless you're doing gally'

or you have a tank who keeps you in combat the entire dungeon

[vocal wolf]

but my TFD! (/jk)

[paper iron]

or you re pulling for the tank

🤭

[hollow spear]

Which one was that again?

[short radish]

dont forget vanish -> cheapshot

[tribal blade]

ew

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

dude could you imagine if they decided to put vanish on like a 30 second cd

baseline

maybe 30 is too crazy, how bout 45-1 min

feign for hunters is like 30 iirc, why not

[plush roost]

30 sec vanish meanwhile outlaw rogues

[short radish]

outlaw basically 30 seconds anyway

[plush roost]

Meanwhile assa in aoe

Yeah it'd be zero tho LOL

You'd have to make vanish not reduced by restless blades if that ever happened, or only 30 sec for sub

[tribal blade]

yeah that was my thought, adjust restless cdr for vanish

or take it off entirely

BRO YES 30 secs for sub

[formal helm]

what the fuck is this

fuck this

this was a cozy boss man

[tribal blade]

they could have done anything to make priory less of a shithole

and they made it worse

[formal helm]

ye

and I've heard the respawn is in front of the cathedral

and not inside it anymore

or smth along those lines

which is also a shit change

[tribal blade]

yeah looks like they've adjusted a bunch of respawn points

i think the big one is halls of atonement

[formal helm]

I'm hoping at least some are good

imagine running all the way in arakara again

[tribal blade]

ara kara they also adjusted i think

[formal helm]

what have they changed?

[formal helm]

thank fuck

that one was a stinker

[tribal blade]

respawns throughout the key

instead of being sent back to the start

[formal helm]

big

interested in where we respawn now tho

[tribal blade]

yeah thank god

[formal helm]

also have they changed any adds / bosses?

[tribal blade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwkXCnps3tc

really good tldr video

[formal helm]

oh, ty!

[tribal blade]

of all the changes so far zorthar found

in M0s

[formal helm]

ait ait, ty ty ❤️

[runic trail]

Putting S3 dungeons up for a vote was a mistake

[tribal blade]

people just chose based on gear lol

[formal helm]

yep.

[runic trail]

Yup

[formal helm]

I mean w/e

[tribal blade]

all high key pushers saw priory and were in shambles.

[formal helm]

yep.

our tank had to take a minute of silence

when it was announced

[tribal blade]

i legit thought priory wasn't that bad

[runic trail]

Do we have a 90 second trinket in any of the m+ dungeons?

[tribal blade]

up until 17s

then once i started 18s

priory suddenly became hell on earth

[formal helm]

yea, tbh, we've tried the 15 one a few times

but we need our feral druid to be online

[tribal blade]

iirc we have a few options

[formal helm]

if not we don't have the dmg

we somehow completed it but it was overtimed af iirc

[tribal blade]

charrend gave good tips for priory

just pull 2 casters at a time

and then chain in more once they die

[runic trail]

Options are good, being stuck with only 1 option from the 6th boss wasn't the best

[tribal blade]

usually most of the deaths come from casts going off overlapping other mechanics

[formal helm]

yep

I mean we just have to try again

but no time kinda lately

we have to catch our tank and feral online

and nobody's too fussed about logging in atm

[tribal blade]

for 15 you don't need to pull too crazy

[formal helm]

we're a casual aotc guild so ye

[tribal blade]

depending on your dmg ofc

[formal helm]

ye idk

probably doable now

since our last try was like 3 weeks ago

or smth like that

[tribal blade]

should be much easier now

well not much, but you prob have more gear and the belt and all that stuff

[formal helm]

yep

and we tried it with another feral from our guild

and no offense to him, but the other guy does almost 30% more dmg

so ye.

[tribal blade]

haha yeah

not surprised

the most surefire way to find yourself people to play with through lfg is do a shitton of dmg

[formal helm]

yeh

[tribal blade]

people are willing to forgive almost all mistakes as long as you're blasting

[formal helm]

yep.

our comp's a bit weird-ish too

vdh, deva, sub, feral and disc

[tribal blade]

that's not bad

[formal helm]

cries in no shout / skyfury

[tribal blade]

oh YOU HAVE NO SKYFURY

[formal helm]

yep.

eh, it's fine

[formal helm]

but like I did a key with our sham and warr

that was a whole 'nother world brudda

[tribal blade]

oh yeah it's a crazy difference haha

[runic trail]

Is skyfury a big boost for us? I guess cos of shadowcraft maybe?

[formal helm]

felt insanely miserable in next key

[tribal blade]

pretty big yeah

you get more CPs

more energy

[formal helm]

and well shout doesn't really need an explanation

[tribal blade]

i did do a dfc as sub w/o skyfury and it was still fine

just felt energy starved all the time

[formal helm]

our tank's thinking of rerolling to bm monk if they make it fun

which I don't really mind since mystic touch's a thing

[formal helm]

ye no, it makes for so much of a smoother play

but alas.

our deva is usually a dk main

but he felt miserable this season so he rolled deva

[tribal blade]

wait what

[formal helm]

yeh

[tribal blade]

he had the option to play udk??

[formal helm]

fdk

[tribal blade]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[formal helm]

he hates udk with all of his being

[tribal blade]

LOL

can't blame him

[formal helm]

he says it does dmg but has whacky gameplay

[tribal blade]

that was literally me pushing S3 DF as sub when outlaw was the meta rogue spec

[formal helm]

that doesn't feel good at all

[tribal blade]

i've played with like 1-2 fdks

the last time i tried 18 cinder with a fdk and fury warr

i blew both of them out of the water

...and the fdk lost to the fury warr

[formal helm]

yeh

[tribal blade]

target capped fury warr

[formal helm]

I mean you saw that tettles video probably

where he outdpsed think fdk and arcane with one button

rotation

in a +17 ml think it was

[tribal blade]

oh right yeah, i think that might have been with the macro

but also both those other 2 did no dps haha

[formal helm]

and then he procceeded to be almost the same dps as fdk in +18 dfc

[tribal blade]

sub 4 mil i think

[formal helm]

think so

but doing 4m+ dps with one button rotation

is wild.

it's just stupid

[tribal blade]

that might have been with an exploit to remove the gcd penalty

[formal helm]

no think he didn't use that one

[tribal blade]

not sure, but it was a thing

[formal helm]

btu idk

[tribal blade]

ah ok

[formal helm]

he made a follow up video

about how one button rotation is insanely unhealthy for the game

[tribal blade]

yeah agreed

[formal helm]

bc it removes "brain lag" and just removes gameplay

[tribal blade]

if he did indeed do 4 mil in a 17 ML using 1 button rotation

[formal helm]

highlight assistant is good

[tribal blade]

that's very bad

[formal helm]

and he said that sure, it does 15% less dmg than sim

but what % of people do their sim dps?

[tribal blade]

they need to tune it then if it's able to compete

[formal helm]

basically just pressing one button and you outdmg 80% of heroic raiders

he suggested 50-75% aura dmg nerf to it

[tribal blade]

yeah they should

[formal helm]

bc gcd penalty is a joke

"punishes energy classes and rewards dots classes"

smth alongside those notes iirc

[tribal blade]

there should be no world in which it's anywhere close to being viable in high end content

[formal helm]

yep.

I'm somewhere for in between 50% and 75%

60-ish % nerf is good

bc it eliminates compete dead weights

but still makes you want to improve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNcu3gnqY4A

here's the video

[hollow spear]

I had a discussion in sin chat where someone told me that a majority of heroic players perform above the one button rotation

I still cannot accept that

[runic trail]

The drunk social raid my guild does is having an 'all one button rotation clear' on friday, so I'll report back

Waiting for it to go smoother than normal

[hollow spear]

My take is that some people just don't know how good the average heroic raider is

[strong kernel]

If I pick the gloomblade talent, will all talents that normally apply to backstab, also apply to gloomblade?

[runic trail]

Because we kind of live in a bubble of higher performing players so we have less exposure to the average

[short radish]

reminder that only 20% of people manage to get aotc

[hollow spear]

If you always join a run full of mythic raiders who want to reclear for rep or a single heroic piece, you won't know how bad the average raider is

[keen dome]

Haha, absolutely

I've ended up in a few of those and they're always a ton of fun

[runic trail]

The social raid has a few players who are gonna see huge boosts in performance due to one button for sure

[hollow spear]

You're probably the most experienced of us in the heroic trenches, iGestalt

[keen dome]

One of my guildies who is very casual swapped to using it. She's gone from doing like, 5 - 10 grey parses to 25 - 30 with it.

[runic trail]

Though the social raid is haunting me after trying to lead those fuckers through the meta achievement run. It was like herding fucking cats

[keen dome]

Another buddy who did okay (30 - 40) parses but couldn't play a lot due to wristi ssues has found it a godsend though. Just a huge QoL that lets her play M+, engage in other content and play for longer sessions.

[runic trail]

'Now make sure to drink the second potion on cauldron.', then I watch as 3 of them just... don't

[hollow spear]

Sometimes, when I'm bored, I join some guild runs who haven't completed heroic yet. I usually stay until they quit and it's quite eye opening.

[keen dome]

Ye! This is a lot of fun.

Always worth remembering that these are the majority of players

[hollow spear]

They're maybe probably better than the majority

[keen dome]

True, a lot of people don't even touch the raid.

[formal helm]

yep

or they do story mode / lfr

[keen dome]

But in raiding, I'd say the AotC / casual groups tend to be the majority of raiding people.

Although that's still only, a rough estimate via incomplete data, 25 - 30% of the population at level cap.

[hollow spear]

Reminds me of the famous George Carlin quote, but adapted : "Think of how bad the average player is, and then realize half of them are worse than that."

[latent finch]

But isnt that even bad for them? Im not sure if pressing 1 button and kill more bosses is more fun then playing your spec you want to play natty and maybe dont kill the boss?

[keen dome]

It's really fascinating

[keen dome]

Different people find fun in different ways.

The first person I mentioned found that by using one-button she could focus more on movement, cooldowns, mechanics. So it made the fights more engaging for her. And in the second, it's accessibility. She can now play the game for longer and do content better.

[hollow spear]

I think the argument is that some people just don't care about becoming good/better. They want to get the result without the effort.

[keen dome]

I agree with the first bit, but I think it's hard to really apply what effort is. because it's very relative.

[formal helm]

my response to that is that idle games already exist

sure, accessibility is nice

[hazy breach]

Yes, but worth noting that the gloomblade tooltip lies, it wont apply find weakness on a crit unless you are behind the target

[keen dome]

For some people, hitting 2k is a huge effort and a monumental achievement. For others it's something they do day 1 of the season.

[formal helm]

true

idk it's just in a really weird spot

[hollow spear]

I agree but isn't that a bit different

[formal helm]

and also I've seen complaints how pressing one button over and over is terrible for their hands

[keen dome]

I imagine that's going to depend on the person but ye, I can see it not helping some people

[hollow spear]

The one button build is the least effort you can put into improving your gameplay from a rotational perspective

[latent finch]

It feels to me like the goal from blizzard with it is really good. Make the game more accessible, content better for the major playerbase. But if the how they did it was the right way im not sure

[formal helm]

oh deffo

I do appreciate the goal

it's just that it seems like it's a very wrong way of going about it

[hollow spear]

If you argue that you just don't have the mental bandwidth to do that and play difficult encounters

I'm fine with that

[keen dome]

Ye

[hollow spear]

It's just that some classes are so close to optimal that I feel it went a bit too far

[formal helm]

idk about that

[keen dome]

I think it's something they need to refine.

[formal helm]

I'd argue the hard thing is pressing your rotation correctly in hectic movemennt fights or smth

but if you just completely remove one of the things in there

[keen dome]

I tend to agree but it's relative, really.

[formal helm]

it's just you're just moving then

idk, if you can't even do that

[hollow spear]

I haven't looked too deep into that. But if I hear that some classes are like 10% off the sim target, I'd bet there's even a decently large mythic raiding population who'd improve by playing the obr.

[formal helm]

yes

that's the argument basically

[runic trail]

I'm just happy I'm beating OBR on dummies, I tried it out of a sense of morbid curiosity

[formal helm]

same

but still.

[fallow nimbus]

The best button for the 1 button is V because you can press it while running into fires with wasd and jump all at the same time

[keen dome]

Hahaha

I think the system needs refinement, but all they've done is adapt an addon and throw it together with accessibility. It's a good system, just gotta refine it. And it lets people engage with the game in a way they find fun.

[hollow spear]

I'm all for the accessibility part

[keen dome]

'Cos it's important to remember it's a game. And if it let's someone play it in a way that is fun to them then that's good. And doesn't hurt your own fun at all 'cos it's an optional choice.

[hollow spear]

The question then becomes: how close to optimal do you get to be?

[formal helm]

I'm gonna quote tettles on this in saying that it's not even good for "better" players
bc what if someone pressing obr beats you?
How does that make you feel?
It just incentivises people to go into that more and more

[keen dome]

Personally I wouldn't care.

[hollow spear]

I don't care personally

I ain't getting beaten by that

[keen dome]

OBR can be perfectly optimal and I won't use it because I don't find using a single button to do my rotation fun.

[formal helm]

fair

[formal helm]

bind it to different keybinds

[hollow spear]

Can I get beaten by a one button balance druid in m+? Probably.

[keen dome]

I absolutely see your point though and how it would upset people. And create a potentially difficult argument of like "hey we need everyone to use this" etc.

But at the same time. That's gonna exist in one form or another.

[hollow spear]

Can I get beaten by a one button sub rogue? Ain't no way.

[formal helm]

it's just an easy way out kinda

and you know lots of people are gonna take it

[latent finch]

Im pretty sure that could get pretty bad in lower end mythic guild where you get flamed for not using it if you dont perform better for it

[keen dome]

Yeah, absolutely.

[formal helm]

why spend a month or two or more to learn a spec

when you can just go and press obr

and be better than 70% of playerbase

[keen dome]

But that's a social issue rather than anything else and dogshit low mythic guilds that are run by the stupidest people will always exist.

[hollow spear]

If a raid leader told me to do that,I'd just quit

[formal helm]

oh true

[keen dome]

If it isn't the OBR there's gonna be another thing they hyper fixate on and mandate.

[formal helm]

I mean I agree, but that's why you also have to account for people while doing these

[latent finch]

Also a bit off maybe. But would it not better to just decrese the dmg of everything about a flat amount instead of the gcd penalty. I tested it quick and it just feels ... clunky

[hollow spear]

It's like Haptic said. His guild tells people to do more dps while ignoring mechanics.

These people exist.

[formal helm]

yes, that's what people are advocating for now

[keen dome]

I think that would probably feel worse, but that's not a bad idea. Just have it do 10% less damage or something instead of GCD reduction.

Feel worse in a psychological way, I mean.

[formal helm]

i mean there has to be some drawback to using it

[keen dome]

But at the same time I think for the target audience of this kind of system it'd be fine 'cos they probably won't care if it lets them play the game.

[formal helm]

the target audience of this is probably doing 20% of their specs' sims

[keen dome]

Less

[formal helm]

so this lets me 4x their dmg while doing nothing

which isn't good.

[keen dome]

I play with quite a few people who this system is really good for and it's been fascinating seeing the difference.

[formal helm]

oh no, I see that point too

[hollow spear]

If there was a pushback from the community against a 25% damage penalty, we'd at least know the accessibility argument was never a serious one.

[formal helm]

I'm also gonna enjoy the people doing more dmg

[keen dome]

25% might be a bit too harsh. But yeah.

[formal helm]

bc it makes it so nobody does 700k dps with 680 gear

[keen dome]

Ye. I think the way I've been looking at it is that it raises the skill floor.

[formal helm]

tettles advocating for 50-75% dmg aura nerf even

[keen dome]

Haha

Geez

[latent finch]

Thats a bit extrem holy

Then we are back at square 1

[formal helm]

I mean guy outdps-ed people in +17 and +18 by pressing obr

[hollow spear]

It won't save the "hands of anything that isn't WASD while I panic" crowd

[keen dome]

The problem with a damage nerf is people will look at it and go "If i use this I will be worse" even though they don't realistically hit the point where they'd notice the damage nerf. It's all about the psych of it.

[lilac stag]

Welcome to 4/8m and rotating out 30% of your roster every tier

[keen dome]

Maybe the problem is moonkin

[hollow spear]

The problem is always moonkin

[formal helm]

hmmm....not quite sure?
it makes the way up a lot steeper.

[keen dome]

I saw that video and I do think there's really good point that it shouldn't be that efficient.

[latent finch]

You think they have WASD bound
we have someone in our guild who doesnt

[vale pine]

This is a genral problem with casual raiding

[formal helm]

there's specs that perform better than even it with obr so

[keen dome]

do.. do they arrow keys??

[formal helm]

but I do agree that it might be an issue

[latent finch]

Nop only mouse

[keen dome]

Powerful

[lilac stag]

You’re just seeing how convoluted sub (and rogue is) compared to other dps designs

[formal helm]

yes, 100

[latent finch]

It was a issue with gallywix because he had a hart time dps while moving 😄

[hollow spear]

Look at fuu calling mythic raiders casual. Most elitist tc confirmed!

[keen dome]

Sure, but I think the people using it aren't going to be the kind to typically improve. SO in that sense, you'e got people going from 500k to 1.5m with this system. So it's like, raising that level of the floor up which is good for everyone.

[vale pine]

basically there is a certain toxicity if your guild is very slow or does not get cutting edge.
Because people want to progress fast and people will shoot others every time there is a slight hickup

[formal helm]

yeah, no I get that

[keen dome]

But then leaping off the OBR and learning is probably a thing only a minority will do.

[formal helm]

yes

that's my point

why bother for 5% increase

when you can just jerk off and do 80% of your specs sims

why bother

[keen dome]

I think it goes back to why you play the game. What you find fun.

[formal helm]

sure, there's people that will try to improve

but those are already a minority

and I'm pretty sure some of those that are trying to improve now would just take the easy way out too

it's just...idk

[keen dome]

Yeah - I think you have a point but it's also a bit moot. I think a lot of the people who'll stick to using it won't be looking to improve their rotation anyway.

[hollow spear]

I think our problem is that we probably are a minority in the game that doesn't really see this thing from the perspective of a casual player.

[formal helm]

I agree

[keen dome]

Absolutely

[hollow spear]

Discord is explicitly not casual

[lilac stag]

Nah. The toxicity is basically stress of trying to get the guild out of mid tier relegation. It’s near impossible to recruit for 6/8 to push to CE if you don’t have a history of CE. You end up carrying a roster that is either just not good enough or doesn’t have the time. Once you break through that it’s way less toxic (stress ridden)

[hollow spear]

Okay, maybe sometimes there's some loser showing up asking to improve damage outside of shadow dance

We should have asked them about obr

[formal helm]

he's pushing high keys, leave him alone!

[keen dome]

Another way to look at it is the same as people who say "I'm using hekili and.."

Similar sort of thing. not the same, obvs. But it's still the same wheelhouse.

[keen dome]

The rare situation where I'm sitting here thinking "But.. even I'm higher .io than that...."

[lilac stag]

absolutely no one is playing this game for 6-8 hours a week spinning your wheels on the 5th boss for a month and enjoying it

[vale pine]

i define casual very diffrent

[hollow spear]

With hekili you at least get some visuals of what you're supposed to press and keep that in mind. Is that the case with obr?

[hollow spear]

I know, just memeing

[keen dome]

You see a similar thing in Heroic guilds, too. Scath. Except, obviously, it's way, way stupider.

[formal helm]

at 1st I've thought it'd be really nice thing to learn the rotation
but apparently it's pretty hard to see what it's trying to press and, according to some of my guildies, it even shows wrong icons when casting some stuff
so it's just...not for that?
and even if it was good for it, my take would be that highlight assistant is just so much better bc it still helps you but makes YOU play the game

[lilac stag]

Heroic you can actually muscle through though

[formal helm]

ikr, same

[keen dome]

In theory

[vale pine]

basically for me, a casual guild is a guild which requires a low total amount of play time to be able to raid

[lilac stag]

You can also adjust raid size

[formal helm]

apparently pretty shit visuals so ye

[hollow spear]

Depends on the muscles

[keen dome]

Yeah. I think a huge improvement would be.. Have you played FF14 at all? They have these cool guides on "how your rotation" works and the flow of abilities.

[neon frigate]

Does anyone know what the catchup total is right now for fractured spark of fortunes if you start alt?

[formal helm]

ye, I've dabbled a bit

during SL when there was that ffxiv exodus

[keen dome]

Yeah, haha.

[formal helm]

that was kinda cool

and I think highlight assisstant's cool af

[lilac stag]

I play 6 hours a week (only raid) am I casual?

[keen dome]

I think it'd be cool if you could open the OBR / asistant and it'd explain the abilities, their usage, situational chocies, etc.

[formal helm]

sure, it makes you press some stuff at wrong times but it's still nice

[formal helm]

[hollow spear]

Direct link to fuus guide

[keen dome]

Haha

[lilac stag]

They can’t even get tool tips right.

[keen dome]

It would be far from optimal, but it'd be about giving people the tools ot learn if they chose to do so.

[hollow spear]

The pictures don't load, can you post them here please?

[keen dome]

Look I just want to see shuriken toss mentioned in the Sub one and for all of us to collectively go "Blzizard!!!"

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/clippy-terminate-survivors-evil-sinister-gif-1264220431037217276

[formal helm]

doesn't even have to be insanely optimised
just make it so people understand the general prio of spells and how and what to combine

[runic trail]

Yeah, in terms of in game information there's... really not much. But it'd be neat if each spec had something like this in game

[keen dome]

Yeah!

[latent finch]

This is such a pain. I had a friend try out rogue. And i needed to explain so much talents that they dont work like they sound they do

[keen dome]

Absolutely, 100% to you all.

[runic trail]

Just, an overview, something to follow.

Cos at the moment you're dropped in there and without resorting to external sources its just, you've got nothing other than trying to fumble and figure something out

[keen dome]

Instead of having to figure it out. You have a little guide and flowchart of what the OBR will do in different circumstances. "If there is one target, you will want to Shadowstrike Eviserate once Rupture is up. If there are 7 targets, you will want to BLack Powder" etc

[formal helm]

have a guildie that's leveling a sub rogue to try it
that's gonna be fun explaining

[hollow spear]

Sub is just cursed for someone who gets there without any prior knowledge

[formal helm]

yeh, you have to have someone show you the ropes

[hollow spear]

People see a cooldown button be ready and they want to press

[formal helm]

but that's like...basically true for everything?

not in wow per se

but in life in general

[hollow spear]

It's true for everything, but in different shades of grey

[formal helm]

yes

[hollow spear]

Our grey is quite black

[formal helm]

🐈‍⬛

idk, just always a bit tilting when you have specs that do your dmg but are drooling at their keyboard

but alas.

(looking at ret pala)

at least the weapon mogs in next patch seem nice!

[keen dome]

Yeee

It is what it is. Frustrating but I've stoppedc aring about what other people do (more or less)

And just focusing on what I can do.

Not much, I guess but!

[formal helm]

yep

I just compete with a few players in our guild and don't care about others 🤷

[runic trail]

I only care about beating the other rogue, gotta secure my spot.

[latent finch]

Also Blizzard could make it in every language far more reasonable then people who write the guides.

If you ever had the joy to try to translate a guide to someone who doesnt understand even a tiny bit of english its not fun.
If you cannt read guide because of a language barrier you have such a hard time to improve

[runic trail]

Yeah, they already have localisation teams so, it'd be way easier

[keen dome]

Yeah, absolutely. More accessibility like this would go so far.

[hollow spear]

I hope they're in this discord

[runic trail]

I've never seen them post here but they're here

[hollow spear]

Just casually throwing the gauntlet

[runic trail]

Okay last post 2017 I think I'm safe

FIGHT ME, NERD

(ilu rly)

[hollow spear]

1v1 for the raid spot

[vale pine]

If you do no mythic+ and do this the entire season yes

[formal helm]

have no other rogues in my guild

[runic trail]

spot secured lets go

bringing that atrophic

[formal helm]

[runic trail]

Even if atrophic doesn't work half the time

[keen dome]

yeah but they don't need to know that

[runic trail]

If the raid leader doesn't know about atrophics limitations then it doesn't exist

[formal helm]

it's psychological warfare

[runic trail]

Its 3% less damage bro,trust me

[latent finch]

You need to use the rogue skill number 1: gaslighting

[formal helm]

"dude trust me, sub rogue is good even without aura buffs"

[latent finch]

No parry chance for the whole raid thats HUGE

[runic trail]

Would have been great on bosses where my kingsbane kept getting FUCKING PARRIED

Happened twice in a row on prog once, I damn near alt-f4'd

[latent finch]

I tried to get our other rogue to play sub on bandit so it doesnt happen anymore ^^

[hollow spear]

Yeah that was annoying, luckily they removed kb parry eventually

[keen dome]

Now that's clever

[runic trail]

I am now the sub rogue, I lost that battle

[hollow spear]

He's the dom rogue then

[keen dome]

Sub is the best spec, anyway

[latent finch]

Still not sure why they dont just nuke parry. It just feels bad and doesnt add anything

[runic trail]

shit

[keen dome]

If you do bad damage just blame it on factors outside your control, like.. uh..

[runic trail]

Boss sneezed during cooldown window

[keen dome]

Saturn was in retrograde that night. bad damage.

[formal helm]

details isn't working good, lowers our dmg

not our fault.

[keen dome]

Someone is using the WA to reduce our damage

[hollow spear]

"My clones fell down the hole again, sorry!

[keen dome]

Okay but that's a legitimate reason

[formal helm]

I just blame my cat 🙂

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[hollow spear]

What if there's no hole though?

[keen dome]

They fell through the floor

[hollow spear]

My clones are on strike for better working conditions

[formal helm]

cat be sleeping behind me but if I fuck up my cds or smth I just curse the cat

[vale pine]

but basically time investment is a big part of what definses the level of raiding.
Some examples:

• If you do 2-3 delves and maybe 1-2 mythic+ per week and raid 4 or 5 hours a week, i would consider it casual
• if you do 2 delves per day, 8 mythic+ a week and raid 5-8 hours i would say its probably not casual anymore
• If you do 20-31 mythic+ a week and raid 8-16+ hours, maybe do extra days for the first weeks and split raids, we def. fall more into hardcore.
  The amount of time you spend will always go down with patch length, but how much time you spend during the first part of a patch cycle is important to make a distinction for me.

[formal helm]

bailout 101

[hollow spear]

I'm not casual anymore

[vale pine]

i mean, its not a hard line for me

e.g. i spend ~40h a week playing but because i did not get as many upgrades from mythic+ people in my guild called me a casual in the past

the line is diffrent for everyone

and most people don't care how much you play, they want you to be geared asap

or are toxic fucks

Toxicity often breeds from expectations not beeing met, and expectations also highly depend on how fast or efficient you clear content

e.g. if you progress slow in mythic, expect a lot of people to complain once you hit any boss which requires more than like 20 pulls to kill

[sage pond]

what's the upside of playing Finality over Rotten in raid? It's a slight sim advantage but I honestly can't fathom why you would want more consistent dmg over a little more dmg in burst window? I might have a wrong feel on this though

[keen dome]

Fuu, do you think I'm casual? And, keep in mind when I ask this what my /played is.

[vale pine]

and it follows the same pattern always:

• Complain about the people that are 2-5 item levels behind, it does not matter if its due to rng, luck, lack of time, etc or if their performance is still adequat.
• Complain about the weakest dps, this ofen can be a group of 4-5 people even because some classes will perform worse on certain fights and some players will due to gear or gameplay mistakes do so too.
  This while in 98% of the cases, the problem lies in multiple people not playing mechanics and not having a dps or gear problem. I experience this cycle every patch in my guild ^^

[keen dome]

(I agree with you completely, though. It's such a subjective thing)

[lilac stag]

Tell me you haven’t raided CE without telling me. This just isn’t the case.

[vale pine]

I raided CE

[lilac stag]

When?

20 pulls is a load of bullocks

or you have a guild of unrealistic expectations which isn’t an actual ce guild

[vale pine]

legion/bfa, i even raided hardcore in wotlk. The guild i am in can make ce but it rly depends on the tier so i would not lable it as a CE guild as there is no guarantee we kill the last boss.

what i am saying or lining out is

and you will have this in any guild

once you are "stuck" on any boss, people will pick on what they think is the factor holding them back

[sage pond]

I think if a guild wiped 20 times first week on let's say Rik Reverb because for example they had bad dps on the canisters, then I could see people being frustrated since that boss was supposed to be very low pulls for a lot of "CE" guilds. Like 20 pulls is a lot for starter bosses

while that being an okay situation for a non CE guild

[vale pine]

so even tho we try to keep the toxicity levels low, and remove people who are problems

it is a consistent fight because every time you need longer for a fight the above pattern happens

and it is also quite logical why

the majority is not analyzing logs, and the easiest factor to point at is item level

if someone is 5 or 8 item levels behind, he is the first victime and attack surface

after that, the damage meter is the secound obviouse thing

this also has nothing to do with level of play

ofc when you go up in WR, you will def. have more people who nolife wow

so a lot of this friction fades

[latent finch]

Does it count if i got mad on a fury warri not pressing whirlwind on our prog on that boss?

[sage pond]

totally understandable. I exaggarated a lot saying 20 pulls first week on that boss. I just saw my old guild around wr100 took over 20 in first week... in our one day project raid we attempted it 2 weeks later with way more itemlevel and then it was few pulls so sorry I am not in the loop for the actual early progression this tier

[lilac stag]

HoF and CE are different animals. A casual CE guild isn’t going to lose their shit if boss 3 happens to take 15 extra pulls. It’s once you stop reclearing and hitting a 100 pull boss that maybe takes you 25% longer and you start to realize tier is ending sooner than later.

[short radish]

yeah

there's so much range in CE guilds

like guilds that are in RWFL

but still get CE

are a CE guild

and holy shit some of those players

[runic trail]

Listen, I'm not THAT bad....

I'm worse.

[short radish]

yeah i was calling you out in particular

[runic trail]

i probably deserved it

[lilac stag]

just wait. You’re going sub rogue.

[short radish]

but it's also guilds at that level

[runic trail]

RFWL is an uncoordinated mess but it adds drama to the season I guess.

[short radish]

the raiders just dont know the fight

like they dont acutally know 20% of the mechanics of what the boss does

[runic trail]

Will we CE? Will we spend 3 hours inting on some boss devising an elaborate strategy that makes no fucking sense?

Its a coinflip

[lilac stag]

Late tier CE is marathon runners hitting the wall at mile 21.

[short radish]

i bet if you asked a RWFL raider - what is the name of the mob we add to kill first and why

[lilac stag]

Roster boss is the real struggle

[short radish]

they cant answer you

@runic trail CAN YOU ANSWER ME

[runic trail]

I'm bad with names I just know the position they spawn in

[short radish]

WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE MOB ON GALLY WE KILL

AND WHY DO WE KILL IT

[runic trail]

IT SPAWNS AT THE BACK AND IT DROPS THE BOMB

(I'm probably wrong)

[short radish]

good enough

[lilac stag]

I don’t need to know name if I change nameplate color for priority target.

[short radish]

i bet half ppl dont even know it drops the bomb

[runic trail]

But yeah I'm very bad with names its a technician thing

But it spawns at the back

So thats my base

[short radish]

yeah im kinda bad with names as well

[sage pond]

optimization question for raids: do i try play around having a finality'ed rupture for my dance windows or is that a non issue?

[short radish]

non issue

dont think

just send

[keen dome]

Frank and because he's being a weird little guy

[lilac stag]

I don’t have any room for game names left. Fuck I’m lucky if I remember the owners names of the dogs I teach.

Ohh technician? You’re purple nameplate now.

[short radish]

actually

funny thing about names this raid

did you know that in the trash leading up to richard reverb

there is a dog mob

and it is called subwoofer

[lilac stag]

I can’t remember half the boss names

[short radish]

i find it incredibly hilarious every time i see it

[runic trail]

me still mixing up stix and sprocket

[short radish]

and have a giggle

[runic trail]

Like, I've worked in the same job for 7 years and I legit don't know half my colleagues names, AND YOU EXPECT ME TO LEARN BOSS/MOB NAMES IN A TIER?

[keen dome]

Just develop a flawless visual memory and memorise where they come from and look like.

[lilac stag]

I’m also casual ce soooo. Maybe we finish gally this week or next

[runic trail]

We surely kill Monday, we got him to 14% after hitting p2 3 times

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/green-mile-im-tired-boss-michael-clarke-duncan-gif-2375696290766999196

[runic trail]

we went straight from 400 pulls of queen prog to undermine

i'm so tired

i swear

[lilac stag]

We just sorted out the last overlap in p1

[runic trail]

Yeah once you're past that you're sorted. Next week for sure.

[keen dome]

jesus

this is why I can't ever consider Mythic haha

[lilac stag]

That was us and I had warrior and rogue going because we couldn’t recruit a fucking warrior

[short radish]

you can do it

and then enjoy a nice break

[lilac stag]

I think we had 250 queen pulls

[runic trail]

gonna nap so hard.

[short radish]

dude

the best part about playing wow

is not having to play wow

[runic trail]

At least I'm at the point of the season where I don't need M+ or vault

[lilac stag]

Best part

[runic trail]

I'd raidlog but then they added in dinars and corruptions and the delve belt

And its just

pls

[lilac stag]

Reclear scared me

I don’t remember any of the bosses

[runic trail]

400 and only got to p3 once

We were legit hitting our heads against a concrete wall hoping for a miracle

[keen dome]

What was the issue? Just DPS or just.. stuff not clicking?

[lilac stag]

The p2 platforms

[runic trail]

We had some people who just... didn't live.

[lilac stag]

People have to live, move and use defensives while dpsing.

[formal helm]

randomly dying yep.

[runic trail]

P2 platforms should have been fine cos we had 4 fucking eleshams

So like, 4 sets of giga burst

But the p2 platforms were absolutely not fine

[lilac stag]

If only 1 lives lol

[runic trail]

They weren't fine at all

[keen dome]

Ah, that old problem. Yep.

[runic trail]

I think it was the guilds first time hitting the end tier boss, so it was a jump up for people

[keen dome]

Makes sense, yeah