subtlety

[tribal blade]

absolutely despises it

(non rogue or former rogue mains)

[short radish]

nobody enjoys being target locked

its so fucking stupid

they got rid of combo points on the target for rogue after mop or something

and then they add it back again

[haughty mural]

They always find ways to lock sin

Agonizing poison

Vendetta

DS

[tribal blade]

they removed it for outlaw

[haughty mural]

Let’s be glad flag does work the way it does

[tribal blade]

surely they can do it for DS too

[short radish]

true

thank fu ck flag works without having to target your target

[haughty mural]

It’s still awkward but I’m thankful for it

Could also be completely a buff on ourselves

[short radish]

yeah but you know

that'd be kinda smart

and make it fun

and nice and comfy

[haughty mural]

And easier to understand for new players

[lilac stag]

It’s (forced) conflict for the player putting the decision making process in their hands offering up good or bad gameplay. Is this not what you want to be top parser in x content?

https://tenor.com/view/napolean-dynamite-napoleon-dynamite-napoleon-ugh-ughh-gif-17242385

[haughty mural]

[lilac stag]

sarcasm if not clear. 5am here

[haughty mural]

It’s clear

[tribal blade]

i can't detect sarcasm, i always think everyone is mad at me

[haughty mural]

I’m not

[short radish]

i am

[hazy breach]

Nah thats probably just a tooltip error. The way sht works is that its got 0% chance to proc on your first two autos, 50% on your third and 100% chance on your fourth, whenever you get a proc it resets

Shadowcraft makes it so the 2nd gets 50% and the third gets 100% instead

[lilac stag]

If honestly depends if the day of the week ends in a Y

[tribal blade]

wait a second

EVERY day ends with a Y

[iron roost]

!fuu,

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

i wish they would bring back anticipation for sub

imagine in aoe you storm once on high target counts and build 14 CPs

and then back to back finishers

[formal helm]

would be fun

[brittle plinth]

My other class is MM and they have this hunters mark wa which tells you which target is missing hunters mark and has the highest health. I found it also helped with dm, for the few times I played sin.

[tribal blade]

nah that's not really the issue

the issue is you have to think ahead of time whenever you know you need to target swap

because if you need to target swap and don't have a vanish to spare, and you just put DN into the wrong target and are at 3 stacks of mark

you either have to cycle through the marks and THEN target swap

or smack the other target without mark up

other shit like today i accidently swapped targets and put DN into a small shitter mob instead of the big prio mob

i swear DS is gonna be the death of me

[brittle plinth]

Yeah fair enough.

I didn't play it much and don't think I ever will.

[tribal blade]

it's pretty horrible

[tribal blade]

that's not actually the worst part, imagine being able to lose your ENTIRE hero tree if you die or mess up applying it from stealth 🙂

[vale pine]

F

[brittle plinth]

U

[dry plank]

I did that on myth kill ansurek

And my vanish ambush also bugged out or smth I did not get it back on last phase

[tribal blade]

yeah dude that happens sometimes, it's rough

i honestly find it a bit sad there isn't more uproar about the state of DS

but the rogue population is pretty small, so not many people to cause a big enough stink lol

[fallow nimbus]

Assa rogues have stockholm syndrome with DS

They don't know better

[twilit phoenix]

Everything else about the tree is cool tho ngl

The cycling minigame is neat

CTW feels banger

Mark management can be tragic tho for sure

[lilac stag]

Is it amazing design?
does it add an aspect of thinking to assa?

The spec is fucking brain dead 16 iq to play. Being aware of target swapping is the one thing you have to manage. It’s fine.

poor assa having to choose an actual target to funnel into.

[tribal blade]

we hates it precious

[lucid jackal]

It's just fun for sin bruv

The mark mini game is fun

[short radish]

the fuck it isnt

[hazy breach]

The cycling is fun, not being able to move it is not

And main problem for sub is that darkest night isnt as impactful as it should be, esp on aoe

[lucid jackal]

Sub also by design doesn't really play deathstalker in the same way sin has to

Less lingering darkness synergies, less overall decision making when it comes to cycling ur deathstalker mark

[hazy breach]

In theory sub can line up dances with Darkest night

[haughty mural]

Fortunately for us, trickster exists

[hazy breach]

If the bug that you cant proc marks with DN up was fixed

It could play well on ST, and then they just fix so DN is worthwhile on aoe

[lucid jackal]

Ya

[brittle plinth]

DS looks like it was made with sub in mind but as far as to say "this fits thematically" and then fucked off for anything else

[hazy breach]

So like, it doesnt require much to make the hero talent actually good

Which is why its so infuriating that its not

[short radish]

no

DS was made for assi

[haughty mural]

I still remember when you could not get to DN as sub in beta 😁

[short radish]

it's like entirely assi related stuff

half the talents are plague (poison)

and also crit with fan of knives

also fuck having to get to max cp

[nocturne scroll]

DN should works on any finisher

[twilit phoenix]

A darkest night super charged sectech in cooldowns

https://tenor.com/view/load-blow-gif-27480509

[tulip gorge]

Is there any downside if they just make mutilate/ambush apply mark with no stealth requirement?

[vocal wolf]

Then you wouldn't get DN since you'd keep refreshing it me thinks

[tulip gorge]

I mean if the target has no mark

Basically how spatter debuff works

[short radish]

Just put the mark on the rogue

And call it comboier points

[slim field]

hey guys, can someone share the sec tec damage WA tracker?

[tulip gorge]

It would make no sense

[warm marlin]

you could technically snipe low hp adds that are about to die to proc DN for the main target

which would be a bit wack gameplay

[tulip gorge]

They could remove the DN proc on death

The only way to get DN is to cycle through the mark stacks

[short radish]

Almost like they are marked for deathmarker

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tsss-drum-band-gif-7320811

[warm marlin]

[brittle plinth]

Last message was 4 hrs ago, sub chat is as long as it takes to find a grp

[vale pine]

4h only, damn you are zooming

[supple flower]

I'm relearning sub after not playing it since Aberrus.

I'm trying to understand when to SecTech and why. I understand why SecTech is the first finisher in the first Dance after Flag, but I'm not sure if it should be the first or second finisher in other Dances.

SecTech gives a Flawless Form stack (+3% dmg spenders) and speeds up gaining Flawless Form stacks (Disorienting Strikes)
Casting Eviscerate as first finisher gives Danse Macabre stack (+6% dmg builders/spenders)

I think guides say SecTech should be the first finisher, although the wowhead overview page says second and the rotation page says first (Fish for the big hit). The APL says first if I'm reading it correctly.

I don't understand why casting Eviscerate first for the Danse Macabre stack isn't better than casting SecTech first, so I must be missing something.

[quasi mantle]

my basic understand is sending sectech first puts it on cooldown so your evis can reduce its cooldown, so you can get more sectechs in better cooldown timings later

[hazy breach]

Not all of our damage is from sectech, making sure you get your unseen blades and coup in dance is more important, and putting sectech on cd so it can be used again

No point thinking about macabre stacks anymore, its just a passive damage increase

[supple flower]

Thanks, appreciate the help 🙂

[serene notch]

starting to feel like im hitting a wall, busting more 15s than timing. can't picture doing 16s.

[steel jolt]

damage is rarely the limiting factor

just die less

[dawn vector]

Is the flask of versatility worth it for sub ?

[dawn vector]

nvm

got it

[chrome palm]

You can sim it with this

but it probably isnt

[tribal blade]

i've heard rank 1 players like ellesmere say that before, how damage doesn't matter at all and it's just kicks/ccs/etc

but i think they take for granted everyone they play with does top tier dps

it's not until you're playing with people who do no dmg you realize how important it is

(but you are right, padding the death meters is the surest way to brick a key)

[serene notch]

It’s sad but one of the biggest predictors for me when keys don’t time is when the other dps do less then me.

Outside of some keys that seem to favor us

[tribal blade]

yeah it's probably the most consistent problem you'll see trying to do any remotely high keys

[steel jolt]

damage is definitely a factor, just not the most significant one

[hollow spear]

Damage can be a reason for deaths if packs don't die before you run out of stops and interrupts or defensives

If people die before the group runs out of these things, it's a people don't use their buttons/standing in stuff issue

[tribal blade]

the way i like to put it is

doing a LOT of damage in keys can fix most problems

[chrome palm]

18 FG

sub op

[opaque barn]

Did my first undermine and got three combat spec drops ;-; hero level 6 fist weapon that i can't even mainhand without bricking backstab

Is good drop but also i weep

[tribal blade]

HUGE

[opaque barn]

Oh holy shit you're the top one huh? 6.3m goes insane

[tribal blade]

how did you use cds on big momma

[chrome palm]

i cucked myself to kill adds ;_;

[tribal blade]

i'm guessing

yeah

adds dying more important anyways

[chrome palm]

i think i had 1 dance for any intermission lmfao

[tribal blade]

that's not too bad

[chrome palm]

i mean for all of the intermission it was just 1 dance

i was definitely spamming a little bit too much BP when the wind ups started going off

i love panicking

[tribal blade]

haha

you get 1 evasion to just sit in melee

and then the rest you run around wishing blind worked

[chrome palm]

sub absolutely blows up big momma though i did nearly 3mil without any trash being pulled into it

and it just lives it really nice

[tribal blade]

just timed an 18 cinder, so close to resil

[chrome palm]

godspeed on priory

[tribal blade]

i spent 2 hours spam running a resil priory

it was hell on earth

boomy and mage dying left and right

[chrome palm]

lmao

[tribal blade]

tanks diong the wonkiest stuff i've ever seen

this one tank body pulled a pack and then refused to accept he did it

[chrome palm]

are you cosplaying a UDK as sin?

in meta comp?

[tribal blade]

lol so sin is insanely good in priory

it's dmg profile

but you're passenger princess on cc

rogue is useless for cc in priory

[chrome palm]

rogue is useless for cc in priory

[tribal blade]

TRUE

kidney is really good situationally

but it's not great in priory

when there's 8 casters spamming

[chrome palm]

im about to download a dr tracker for kidney

[tribal blade]

that too

i love sending a full CP kidney into a DR'd mob

and it does nothing

[chrome palm]

this is basically how kidney works when you play with half of the classes which spam aoe stuns

[tribal blade]

yeah my group is vdh and enhance

so between 2 cap totems and 1 nova

everything gets dr'd to hell immediately

[chrome palm]

kidney ignoring dr soon Prayge

[tribal blade]

aoe kidney soon pray

[chrome palm]

non dr kidney or prey on the weak

would make it interesting at least

ig prey would only work if it affected elites

otherwise it would be useless

[tribal blade]

this season is making me realize they need to normalize the amount of aoe stops every class has

[tribal blade]

yeah it would be sick if it worked liek that

[chrome palm]

its been so long but i remember prey on the weak being kinda useful

probably not with how dungeons are designed now though

[tribal blade]

it was kinda cool

[chrome palm]

maybe if rogue stuns increased damage dealth to the mob by x%

[tribal blade]

my former push group used to play around it

[chrome palm]

for like a group prio util

[tribal blade]

i ran with a brewmaster during SL S2

and he would get wrecked by casters

[chrome palm]

but it probably would be impossible to balance

[tribal blade]

so i would kidney casters in hall of atonement and we'd nuke it down

[chrome palm]

the good days ;_;

good for rogue at least

[tribal blade]

that was the "why are you pressing BP" days

"why aren't you funneling"

[chrome palm]

i love that people still have that mindset

[tribal blade]

"why black powder"

[chrome palm]

if they see BP in your damage log you are automatically padding

[tribal blade]

yeah it's stupid

it's right for some pulls

when it's all small shitter mobs and 1 big ass prio target

but not EVERY SINGLE PULL

[warm marlin]

playing rogue and then going to boomie alt and watching vdh grip -> beam -> silence sigil

[chrome palm]

even during like stix prog i remember if you have a good pull someone will say "ok lets check his BP damage..."

[tribal blade]

haha i was actually super ethical during stix

just spammed evis

only BP if nimble dropped

[opaque barn]

So is there a form of the sub build that goes all in on the shadow damage stuff, or is it just too much weaker

[tribal blade]

in the 18 cinder i just timed it was me, boomy and ret

and they did 0 prio

i had to carry ALL the prio

[tribal blade]

might be on par dps wise, but it plays like dogshit

and dmg profile is worse

[chrome palm]

dark brew builds emphasize shadow damage somewhat more but they generally arent competitive. the only use for a dark brew build that i know of is swapping to it for high rookeries after 2nd boss for burst damage on last boss

[warm marlin]

doesnt deathstalker have better prio/funnel than trickster

[opaque barn]

How would it play like dogshit? What would it even really change in your rotations so much

[chrome palm]

because you lose a charge of symbols

[opaque barn]

To be clear these are questions from like. A local fool, im still getting geared here and this is my first season back in ages

Ah, thats true

[tribal blade]

it does, but it has no cdr for dance

[chrome palm]

and i think the rotten

[tribal blade]

so trying to fit in sectec into 2nd dance in cds is omega cursed

[chrome palm]

deathstalker is also the shadow damage hero talent but its played never

[warm marlin]

mmm

[tribal blade]

i think it's fine if you're pixel perfect with every gcd and shadowcraft refund

but nobody's perfect

[opaque barn]

Unfortunate, I thought gloomblade looked cool

Oh well

[warm marlin]

ive never talented ds as sub so i wouldnt know

[tribal blade]

give it a try, it feels like ass haha

[chrome palm]

gloomblade's main purpose SHOULD be to enable you to proc find weakness without being behind the target, but it is (bugged?) and doesnt even do that

[tribal blade]

also you have to consume DN in aoe to reapply mark

[warm marlin]

[tribal blade]

and DN does nothing for aoe

as sub

[chrome palm]

deathstalker used to run gloomblade in S1 because of lingering darkness, I think

[tribal blade]

yeah gloomblade and lingering was mega strong early DF

[opaque barn]

I didn't even realize ds would be better the two, I just saw all the sort of talents leaning into shadow stuff and was curious if they added up to something functional

[chrome palm]

deathstalker talents just all do plague damage which is shadow+nature, and it buffs shadow damage with lingering darkness

[tribal blade]

sub is very much locked into 1 set of talents atm

[warm marlin]

unrelated but if you enjoy outlaw at all it is extremely strong atm

in basically every dungeon

[chrome palm]

but trickster is decidedly the only real option

[tribal blade]

i haven't seriously played outlaw since... S1 of DF

i might pick it back up again

for fun

[chrome palm]

is outlaw good outside of the phys comp? sin seems really nice because you can sorta slot it in and it has the prio damage niche

[tribal blade]

now that they changed stuff like how BtE works and crackshot windows

sounds like it's fixing a lot of issues i didin't like

[warm marlin]

i mean its damage is so high and it is so tanky (when you aren't dying to killing spree) that you can kinda slot it in anywhere

[opaque barn]

How hard of a play style switch is it to try outlaw? I did just get multiple gears for it

[warm marlin]

here's a 17 brew before we wiped to our poor tank getting blasted

only monk buff

[tribal blade]

do you know what details dps was

[warm marlin]

7.7 ish

[tribal blade]

nice nice

[chrome palm]

typically i run with vdh and shaman so i have to imagine sin is stronger than outlaw for that reason alone

[tribal blade]

also how was ret that low

1 button rotation

[warm marlin]

i think he died on some pulls

it was not the cleanest key

[tribal blade]

yeah that would do it

[warm marlin]

look at our tank ilvl

bro needs to farm some crests

[tribal blade]

wait what

and brewmaster is already the tank that struggles the most in big pulls right now

[chrome palm]

brew makes do

[warm marlin]

brew kinda insane ngl

[chrome palm]

i had a 674 brew tank a 19 dfc

no problem whatsoever

i love playing with brew

[tribal blade]

ah ok i guess i was lied to

[warm marlin]

yea he was fine in the dfc 16

and ws

[tribal blade]

i watched some brewmaster talking about phys comp and he made it sound like it's a massive struggle

[chrome palm]

i think they need a bit of help from healer

[warm marlin]

im a bit biased but i do think outlaw is rather difficult to play to full potential

[chrome palm]

compared to vdh obviously

[warm marlin]

and it is very different to the other 2 rogues

[tribal blade]

outlaw is difficult for sure

you have to get used to the fast paced rotation

and then learn how to react apprpriately for every gcd

outlaw is quite reaction based rotation

[chrome palm]

outlaw simply has a much longer ruleset for every button

reason why outlaw sim takes so damn long

(i imagine)

[tribal blade]

after every button press as outlaw you have to quickly evaluate what to do next

whereas sub and sin is a bit more streamlined rotations

you know what button press order you'll do ahead of time

mostly

[warm marlin]

much more so than most specs you just need to play a bunch and practice to get used to the various scenarios you commonly find yourself in

[opaque barn]

Sounds kinda fun...on the fly stuff

Sub is my favorite for the class fantasy, but

Worth a try maybe.

[tribal blade]

it's fun but you'll see how you mess up a gcd or 2 as outlaw

and then it snowballs

and then you mess up more

and it snowballs more

[opaque barn]

Hm hm

Yeah...

[tribal blade]

and then buffs drop

and it snowballs more

and then you're in hell haha

[warm marlin]

but yeah I don't really enjoy sin that much, it's not so bad in raid but i just don't like juggling dots on nameplates as a melee

[tribal blade]

the entire spreading bleeds outside of IC and juggling DS mark is pretty annoying

i think IC should also have it's own button or something

[warm marlin]

zugzug mutilate big DN envenom is fun in st

[tribal blade]

so you reset it's cd from true stealth

[chrome palm]

sin is just too bare in raid, at least in df there was a bit more of sequence to keep you engaged during your CDs

[warm marlin]

you mean like it used to be?

[tribal blade]

yeah! why not

on like 45 sec cd or something

maybe 30 so you can perma keep up ruptures

i dunno if that would make bleed build too OP in aoe though

[chrome palm]

seems to eat into the whole design of IC/subterfuge though

[tribal blade]

yeah but nobody likes that playstyle

i'm on the bandwagon of removing all power from stealth+vanish from rogue

[chrome palm]

i dont think it would be the end of the world if sin had something like replicating shadows

[tribal blade]

i like that idea, give replicating to sin

whysper already said it's something sin should have, weird that sub has it

and then give sub something else

[chrome palm]

just not having to cast 5 different ruptures would be nice

[tribal blade]

make sub like arcane mage

yeah it's kinda awkward having to spread 5 individual ruptures

it's like playing mouseover macro nameplate simulator

[chrome palm]

just 2-3 would be much more managable

[tribal blade]

outlaw right now is the only rogue spec that doesn't need to play around constant target swapping or nameplate mouseover shenanigans

in keys

[warm marlin]

well mouseover is sometimes good

mouseover bte is very strong on some fights

[tribal blade]

fair enough

[warm marlin]

but ye its not integral

[tribal blade]

i didn't actually realize outlaw does that now

[warm marlin]

floodgate duo boss is first one i can think of

bte the guy running around and flurry the caster woman

while building cp on woman

[tribal blade]

i hate doing that boss as sin

it's very annoying

[warm marlin]

every time i play sub in there they separate as soon as my cb sectec comes up

[tribal blade]

i dunno why blizz is hellbent on making every single dungeon encounter hell on earth for melee

while ranged are just chilling

[warm marlin]

its definitely much worse this season than s1

[tribal blade]

yeah it's horrendous this season i feel

ranged has like 1 hard part

2nd boss of ML

that's it iirc

everything else melee is running around in a panic while ranged is laughing in the back haha

[warm marlin]

imagine my surprise when i learned the giant pillar on workshop 3rd boss isnt los

for whatever reason

[tribal blade]

oh for the plant?

[warm marlin]

no just to hit the boss

even if you turbo screw up and get separated from the group during beams it just doesnt matter

[tribal blade]

oh i see

i suck on that boss, so my full focus every time i'm in there is just dodging

[warm marlin]

it is quite difficult

[chrome palm]

my pov on that boss

https://tenor.com/view/squidward-spongebob-car-drive-flatten-gif-16881641755937747949

[tribal blade]

i play with ~200 ms

and i have naturally slow reaction time (thanks dad)

so doing that boss is my kryptonite

just thinking out loud, i think i start use numbing over atrophic in priory

the casters getting casts off is what kills every single priory

[civic oyster]

I'm trying to decide what to spend my dinars on and only have gally left. I see a lot of top logs with pacemaker but it sims lower for me than hotline, is it because they probably swapped from sin?

[tribal blade]

nah pacemaker is good for sub

if you're simming pure ST hotline will be better yeah

but thing is this raid tier there's only 1 pure ST fight, so pacemaker is overall better

[civic oyster]

I see, might as well send it then they're close anyway

[celest iron]

Do we ever use Backstab over Shadowstrike during shadowdance?

[tepid trellis]

as first builder with premeditation up yes

[fleet wharf]

if you fuck it up and used ss as the first builder it's not worth trying to fix it with a backstab since premed won't be there right?

[civic oyster]

I think it'd still make sense to use it if you are in shadowblades before using st but it's a pretty small damage increase

[tepid trellis]

not worth it

[dry plank]

Top sub use numbing everywhere except may be workshop

[tribal blade]

a lot of top rogues use atrophic

because it's overall more useful

numbing tends to be kinda useless on bosses

[dry plank]

But he is número uno ))

[quick pendant]

You guys doing high keys as sub?

[dry plank]

That’s might be difference )) I’m joking. Playing pug numbing better

Constant group I guess atro better. BUT fuk blizzard, it shouldn’t be talent conflict node. We should be able to choose both and switch

So we could use weapon swap in fight and apply everything

[dry plank]

Yes

[cobalt vector]

poisons dont apply to ur weapons anymore havent for a while

[dry plank]

Ye I know. Bring I back as well ))

[tribal blade]

haha someone i do keys with thought i was making up stories about why i couldn't help him do keys

and just found out that i, in fact, am sitting in dornogal half afk mass crafting

and making gold cap

[keen dome]

high5 sitting afk in dornogal making gold cap

[short radish]

high5 sitting afk in dornogal and just being afk

[tribal blade]

high5 being a rogue in a god comp world

[lilac stag]

high5 being a rogue and letting you subscription run out

[keen dome]

impossible

Def feeling the most 'done' with WoW I have been in a long time though. This patch (11.1.5) has not been good.

[zenith prism]

nerf sub

[keen dome]

buff sub

[short radish]

delete aug

[lilac stag]

delete pc wow. Xbox only port please.

[haughty mural]

What did ?

[brittle plinth]

Tell me more

[haughty mural]

Haven’t checked in yellow for ages

[vale pine]

100%, sub is too good, needs nerfs ^^

[keen dome]

[tribal blade]

sub is unironically not bad

in keys

reposting the 17 DFC i did the other day to test sub

i was quite surprised

sub pros: better boss dmg, tanky

[haughty mural]

I really like sub in dfc tbh
My boss dmg matters and our burts line up really nice on many pulls

[tribal blade]

sub cons: have to choose between doing prio or mass aoe, tank dmg outside cds

[tribal blade]

yeah candle king is the hardest heal check boss of the entire season

[haughty mural]

It is somehow fair I guess, since we are one of the specs that just don’t loose single target dmg in m+

[tribal blade]

so playing sub there is very good

[haughty mural]

Yea for sure

[tribal blade]

if nimble was soft capped instead of hard capped

sub would be very good in keys

[haughty mural]

Soothing heal is also quite nice on candle king

[tribal blade]

i looked up dmg taken on the fight after the key was over

all the other dps and healer were taking ~800-850k dmg per sec

i was taking ~600k dmg per sec

[haughty mural]

Thanks to EE

[tribal blade]

so very significantly less

[haughty mural]

Wouldn’t that just delete bp ?

[tribal blade]

kind of yeah, but who cares

BP is so awkward as trickster

[tulip gorge]

giving bladeflurry to sub was a mistake

[hexed sluice]

BP can be death stalkers gimmick

[tribal blade]

they want you to just press strike in dance but you can't apply FW unless you storm with rotten

hella awkward

[tulip gorge]

they need to keep spec identities separate

[tribal blade]

they gave bladeflurry to sin

they gave BETTER bladeflurry to sin

[haughty mural]

Yea true
The rotten bug is really annoying

[tribal blade]

so why not all 3 heehee

[tulip gorge]

at least the assa bladeflurry is slightly different

sub bladeflurry is straight up copy paste

with lower range

[tribal blade]

it is, that's why i think it being soft capped would be better

sub is supposed to not be a hard target capped spec

[keen dome]

Delete all hard caps

[tribal blade]

it's kind of how blizz deals with dmg profiles

[silent ruin]

is mythic gally more conducive to sin play or sub ?

[haughty mural]

Poor ww

[tulip gorge]

idk if anything they should restrict trickster bladeflurry to 5 targets and encourage black powder more

[short radish]

either make everything hard capped

or nothing hard capped

[tulip gorge]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/morgan-day-talks-dps-rankings-with-chinese-dps-competition-commentary-and-q-a-377263?utm_source=discord-webhook

[haughty mural]

Ngl i kinda got used to alternating between flurrying and bping

[keen dome]

[tulip gorge]

in this interview outlaw was mentioned having a capped aoe

so maybe they will do some changes about that

[tribal blade]

all 3 rogue specs are mid on gally

play whichever you enjoy more

sub has more add dmg ofc

[silent ruin]

alright thanks

[keen dome]

that's good balance

[short radish]

nothing matters on gally

except the adds at 30 seconds

[tribal blade]

yeah just live gally

and it'll die

[short radish]

boss will just fall over no matter what spec you play

mythic gally is just
kill adds at 30 seconds quickly enough
deal with overlap at 3ish minutes

[tribal blade]

sin is kinda weird because you do a big move right as KB comes up 1 min in

so you have to delay KB

and then you delay cd set to line up with adds

hey is the AH broken for you guys on EU too

[keen dome]

Let me check

Seems fine. Broken in what way?

[tribal blade]

been like this for a couple of hours

[short radish]

shits fkt

[tribal blade]

i think the entire of NA is affected

[keen dome]

Huh, it wasn't showing that to me.

Seems absolutely fine for me on AD-EU

[tribal blade]

i was doing keys earlier and people were having to log onto alts to transfer consumes over haha

[keen dome]

geez, haha

[lilac stag]

NA are the beta servers. What are you expecting, a working game?

@tribal blade want to bet I’m still stuck at 2499/2500 renown after reset?

[vale pine]

the renown grind is real ^^

[lilac stag]

can’t grind what your can’t earn

[vale pine]

true

[tribal blade]

LOL it might happen, seems like wow is falling apart right now

[haughty rose]

love it when i get invited to a +15 and get kicked right after i used my port to the dung because "thought you are assa"

[tribal blade]

1. you can see specs while people are queueing dingus
2. you can use whatever spec to time a 15 dingus

[haughty rose]

tell that the arcane mage who invited me lol

[tribal blade]

so if there's an arcane mage in the group

YOU DON'T NEED A SIN ROGUE

[haughty rose]

bet i'd done more damage than him anyway

[tribal blade]

you would

[haughty rose]

because there has to be a reason an off meta spec has higher io than a meta spec right? lol

[tribal blade]

people are dumb

[haughty rose]

honestly i really only care about my time and port CD + HS CD lol

[tribal blade]

nah i get incredibly tilted when people do shit like that

especially if they kick w/o saying anything

[haughty rose]

for a sec i do too yeah but i have ebough self control to not /w somethign that would get me into trouble

so i'll keep it to a "thanks for wasting my time dear mister meta sir"

[tribal blade]

haha i usually just /w "rude" or "bro"

i actually once gave someone a lecture because he kicked me without saying anything for a higher key in a previous season, while i was at title range and he wasn't

basically saying you can't treat people that way doing title range keys

because the community is so small

[haughty rose]

yeah better like that. blizz is incredibly harsh on bad lang. i once got a 1 week chat ban for saying "calm your man boobs nerd" when a sin rogue blamed me for a loss in solo shuffle lmao. and a chat ban is basically a game ban if you pug only.

[tribal blade]

NO WAY they banned you for that, that's crazy

[haughty rose]

i used to play BF4 a lot and the stuff you see in chat there is insane. everything from racism to xenophobia and so on. no consequences unless the server admins care which they usually don't

[tribal blade]

i've seen so much worse

[haughty rose]

honestly i was baffled too. i only found out because i said that they have to tell me by EU law (which is true btw)

funny thing the sin rogue literally said my moms a wh*re and that i'm the worst rogue in EU and i need to uninstall before he hacks my PC und uninstalls for me lmao

[tribal blade]

i don't think what you said there crossed a line

[tribal blade]

lol of course he did

[haughty rose]

it's just that i didn't report him for that but he did

[tribal blade]

which begs the question why didn't they look at the entire interaction

[haughty rose]

i mean maybe he got banned too i don't think they would tell me. but i didnt report so maybe it flew under their radar

[tribal blade]

might possibly be an automated thing

[haughty rose]

maybe yeah

from what i read online people gat banned for literally nothing and when they ask why they won't get a reply except for some automated response

that's where i learned that a company that offers service to the EU is obligated to give out all the information they have about that costumer if he asks for it which includes ban reasons

only then they sometimes unban because they have to look i to it and see that the ban was unjustified

can you imagine that? getting banned for no reason and only getting unbanned because they HAVE to look into in by EU laws

and the bans for nothing usually means getting mass reported by salty players and their guild or trade cartels

[tribal blade]

that's interesting it's written into law

[lilac stag]

They got caught doing something, but everyone loves a good sob story.

[haughty rose]

maybe yeah. but i can fully imagine just auto ban mass reported players

[brittle plinth]

It was volume of report based likely, and that just happened to be the last thing said.

No one gets a silence for a single report.

[tribal blade]

it's kinda crazy i've played wow for 20 years without ever even getting a warning

[brittle plinth]

Funny how that works right?

Blizzards system is ripe for abuse though.

AQ gate opening in classic was a very public display of it.

But it's safe to assume the majority of these are deserved.

[tribal blade]

i don't think his was deserved, what he said didn't cross any lines i think

but that's just me

[fallow nimbus]

Back in the day gms were awesome, now it's just systems and numbers

[brittle plinth]

No one gets a silence for a single private message, they might for a public one that's mass reported.

[fallow nimbus]

Maybe it crossed a threshold

[brittle plinth]

Basically what Valthan saying, you don't get a qualitative review of your content till much later in the process.

He tripped a quantitative rule

[fallow nimbus]

Like get 7 reports in a timeframe and you are gone

[tribal blade]

ah i see

[brittle plinth]

Blizz says they have eyes on all the actions but I can tell you from my experience that can mean less oversight than a machine.

[haughty rose]

it was literally the worst thing i said

"worst"

[brittle plinth]

I'm not arguing your virtue, I'm just telling you that's not how it works.

[haughty rose]

of course i often reply with a "fuck off" and other mild stuff like that but that one thing was the "worst"

[brittle plinth]

They may have tried to get you mass reported but I doubt that happens in retail like it does in classic?

[brittle plinth]

There you go. Every time someone hits report, its a +1

Hit a number and auto silence.

No one even looked at what you said.

[haughty rose]

idk. or i got reported before for stuff like "fuck off" and what not

that one employee showed me the massage where i said the man boob stuff

[brittle plinth]

It's community based justice.

You escalated enough that they pulled a transcript, guy threw whatever in to it.

[haughty rose]

yeah but taking a "fuck off" into that is ridiculous

[brittle plinth]

I'm not saying you're guilty or wrong

[fallow nimbus]

Gms have chat logs and a ban trigger saves that

[brittle plinth]

I'm just saying how it works

Before voice chat became a thing and I was a much angrier gamer, I would just say the mean stuff outloud to avoid typing it.

[haughty rose]

yeah and makes sense

[brittle plinth]

Eventually the desire goes away

[fallow nimbus]

When the silence system started it was pretty much abused

[tribal blade]

i guess i've never gotten in trouble once because i very rarely lose my temper on people in game

and even when i do i keep it mostly civil

[fallow nimbus]

Like take your guild and mute the raidlead of your rival guild

[brittle plinth]

It is.

[keen dome]

Yeah, you can get anybody silenced by abusing the automated system. It's very dumb.

[haughty rose]

tbf i only get angry when my game lags

but i also don't let unjustifies insults slip

[brittle plinth]

My GM in SoD caught one for yelling the same word over and over before going into RFK for the p2 grind.

4th run in and he was silenced for a week.

We would finish, walk out half a second to reset, he'd spam, and we would be back in. Accumulated enough of those reports for an instant silence within an hour or 2.

[keen dome]

It's the typical issue when you fire 99% of your staff and go to automated systems for most things. A full account ban requires a human investigation but a lot of stuff that's tempoary is automated.

it's real dumb. Blizz used to want hotel-level customer service

[brittle plinth]

In their defense, automated punishment based off of community reporting is fine as long as their is punishment for abuse of it.

And the punishment is minor-ish like a silence.

[keen dome]

Absolutely, it has a place.

But it needs human involvement.

[brittle plinth]

Dirty Money - Cartel Bank is a good example of how little human involvement means

[keen dome]

They've done a very good job with automatic filtering of slurs and stuff. The game outright won't let you say some stuff which is a great system.

[brittle plinth]

This is more of a calibration problem, but I don't know enough to really diagnose.

[keen dome]

No, you still need human involvement because false positives happen and they need to be investigated.

Fully automated solutions do not nor will ever work when dealing with moderation of people.

[brittle plinth]

I agree but it has to be more substantial than "a human looked at this."

Cause you'll get the "down enter" position

Human approved barely read no thought given

[keen dome]

Then the system is broken and doesn't work anyway?

Like, that's just immediately assuming the system can't work

[brittle plinth]

It's a scale problem

Wow too big

[keen dome]

No, it's a problem that Blizzard fired most of their GM's and closed the offices.

Scale is an issue but to decide that the issue is exclusively scale is missing the entire situation lol

[brittle plinth]

Under the assumption that people will play longer and pay more if there is high quality GMs

The expenditure doesn't have an ROI

We will play regardless

Even ppl banned will likely reroll

[keen dome]

No I don't think they will

[brittle plinth]

I'm not being cynical, but the decision is made off actual player behaviors rather than moral-right that we would expect

The moment that Vevendi deal happened, finance decisions were inevitable. Gamer devs would consider the "right thing to do" as self-justified. But it's now a question of "will this action, or lack of action, have a meaningful impact on player engagement (as related into revenue) to justify the expenditure over X period of time?"

So if this automated rule silenced a hypothetical 100 accounts a year of which 25 quit cause if it. It would have to be 25 x money generated from whatever analytics, sub, cash shop > cost of salary, other employment costs (benefits, office space, tech, management, and onboarding) over a period of time (I used one year earlier).

That looks way longer on mobile than I intended.

[thin sinew]

Anyone help me understand exactly why i'm getting 'such a bump' from gemming for crit?
It is purely because of my second trinket needing crits to extend and mines pretty low now?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/x6ow75sEpUtqguz66BAuMh

[warm marlin]

crit is a good stat and you have almost none of it

if you sim recrafting it probably would like at least one of your rings and some of your other pieces to be recrafted to crit/vers

[tribal blade]

people are starting to see such a bump in crit because most people started talenting finality over rotten for raid

and losing the guaranteed crits from rotten means crit as a stat gains value

[thin sinew]

yeh just done that and it's saying 1 ring recraft but then keep verse>mas gems

[warm marlin]

ye with pacemaker itll be a bit less extreme

but with kezan for me it likes neck/ring to both be crit/vers

[thin sinew]

that's actually a very good point

[tribal blade]

it's always like that

[thin sinew]

i mean doing this is a bit tryhard for 10k dps but you know every little helps

[tribal blade]

like if you try untalenting CB crit as a stat gains value again too

[tribal blade]

it won't make or break your dps for sure

like for my sin M+ set i took a small dps loss to gain more vers

[thin sinew]

definitely not, especially with the raid i play in :S

[warm marlin]

echoing void is also still bugged fwiw

would prob play gushing for raid

[thin sinew]

jesus really?

i'll go snag that then especially for the last 2 bosses

[sharp lake]

I need to know, do we actually get much of a dps increase from bloodlust?

[chrome palm]

Probably like ~80k dps over 5 minutes but you can sim it. Fight timing will obviously be a big factor there

80k probably too high

[vale pine]

not rly

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

its like ~2% dps, so somewhat low

[leaden prairie]

@vale pine the belts arent socketed

[vale pine]

oh, you are right. I can re-run it tomorrow with sockets

[leaden prairie]

[vale pine]

will be fairly similar gains for everyone ^^

[leaden prairie]

i was checking aoe sims

its crazy

its a dps loss

for legit everyone

[vale pine]

ye

[leaden prairie]

idk why blizzard keeps doing these procs thingies

everytime its the same story

they are bad in aoe

and since you give the things no stats

its just bad in aoe

or just make the procs actually do something in aoe for once

[vale pine]

they proc stats

so you can use the mastery proc one to get a bit more aoe while improving your single target

[leaden prairie]

meh

[vale pine]

tho i would assume the best is just to pick charged bold everywhere

or not use it

[keen dome]

I wonder if they'll do another pass afrt a week

[vale pine]

possible

[keen dome]

Kinda doubt it 'cos I feel we're in "okay 11.1.7 is done everyone into the 11.2 and 12.0 mines"

[jaunty heath]

Sub has been in 13.1.7 times for the whole season

[vagrant fulcrum]

hot take

they need to replace nimble

its not a good fix for the spec

[brittle plinth]

Oh I'd like to subscribe to this newsletter

Any ideas? I love good tc

[hollow python]

... I tried to write a tldr on how/why/when nimble flurry works and how to game it in certain aoe situations for the other sub rogue in raid, but the tldr was like 2.5 paragraphs and he followed the meta and went assassin and proceeded to blast doing whatever his addon told him

[brittle plinth]

It's easier to just not track things like nimble or fazed and follow a priority sometimes lol.

[hollow spear]

Did I miss sth? Since when is nimble flurry complicated?

[brittle plinth]

I'm dumb so I just assume if I press my buttons in the right lil dance that it'll always be up

I'm sure someone here has some nuance to it

[warm marlin]

how does one game nimble flurry

[paper mortar]

any tips on how to get into sub? seems like alot of buttons and tracking

[warm marlin]

besides just positioning yourself near the aoe while hitting your desired mob

[warm marlin]

practice the flag/blades burst window until you can do it correctly and you're already 75% of the way there

[paper mortar]

just st on a dummy right? from my light research it seems like theres not much value in even learning keys as sub atm even in low stuff

[warm marlin]

yeah just st. keep in mind that the shaman raid buff helps a lot with cdr timings and energy so by practicing on a dummy you're playing on hard mode

and you can play sub in keys if you like it, it's a bit behind the other rogue specs but it is not unplayable

[brittle plinth]

Play what's fun, and depending on what your goal is, sub might be fine.

[cyan saddle]

hey guys looking to swap to sub for one fight for Mythic from sin. Do i need to worry about stats at all? currently high mastery and crit

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility > Critical Strike > Haste

[cyan saddle]

oof

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter much

Just dont stack haste and its fine

[cyan saddle]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[wild hornet]

sweet fucking jesus

im considering going back to cheat

[chrome palm]

Did you run elusiveness and not feint?

[warm marlin]

No cheat in raid?

[chrome palm]

Cheat death saved my trial fr

[wild hornet]

i mean i stopped dying to

mines

elusiveness does wonders

[wild hornet]

i was in feint

and i still got shat on

[hollow python]

it wasnt gaming so much as just untangling the spaghetti noodle hero talents descriptions of how fazed, flawless form, disorientating strikes, surprising strikes, nimble flurry, coup de grace, and unseen blades are all their own thing but loose spaghetti square knot tied together in a way thats kinda confusing to read coming into the spec... its just confusing and should not be

[warm marlin]

Ya I mean if there’s any fight this tier I think u could maybe argue elusiveness it would be mugzee

Does it really save you from walking into a mine though?

It overkilled me so hard on prog it just went through cheat

[wild hornet]

oh yeah it goes thru cheat

and it helps on big aoe spikes to not die

liek the rest

[zinc niche]

I really thought this was going to be a strong sub tier, not sure why it wasn't

[chrome palm]

I think your healers are bad

[warm marlin]

Yea u shouldn’t need feint + elu evasion to survive aoe dmg as a rogue

[wild hornet]

i think its time to uninstall

[chrome palm]

the person with payload should be recieving an external

and topped off at least

[night sparrow]

is there's a world where single target u use Goremaw on the "dry" symbols+sectec every 2 bursts + on cd ?

also as anyone tried shuriken tempest for m+ ? seems pretty fun

[alpine wraith]

nope goremaw is not the play

as for tornado it is ok as deathstalker but as trickster it is a bit annoying

[steel zinc]

Gore is so undertuned since forever

I assume they want it to be thar way to reduce button bloat

[steel zinc]

In s3 we are screwed with one stat being dead

[vale pine]

we won't reach hard caps on all 3 stats

[steel zinc]

I mean we are already at mastery dr

Versa soon too

Crit not really

[vale pine]

exactly

[hazy breach]

I mean the DR doesnt particularly matter

[warm marlin]

who needs stat scaling when you have mystical 5% buffs magically appearing

[hazy breach]

How good the tierset, trinkets and rare items are for the spec is significantly more important than any sort of stat scaling

But ye if it all goes to shit, just drop a 5%er and none of that matters anyway

[warm marlin]

oops I meant who needs stat scaling when you have mystical 5% 10% 5% 10% buffs

[steel zinc]

When we had 5% +5% damage buff evoker was still better in raid.

[chrome palm]

bit of a bias considering they are spoonfed pi

[hazy breach]

Dev doesnt have particularly good stat scaling

Their damage numbers are just high

[warm marlin]

speaking of eleem is the mistake still present on ptr

[hazy breach]

ye

[warm marlin]

[formal helm]

mistake?

[chrome palm]

Wednesday raiders in shambles

[warm marlin]

crazy to have the same mistake happen within a month

crazy work

[formal helm]

what?

[hazy breach]

The extra 5% that was applied with our 5% buff

Is still active on the ptr

So its probably going live on reset

[formal helm]

[formal helm]

blizzard fr

[wild hornet]

sweet jesus mugzee is such a pain

always the prog kill is the one with the shit log

[white briar]

speak for yourself, i just r1'd on first kill

[steel zinc]

Really?

Ok nice hope that just adds into class tuning

[hollow spear]

That just adds into NA Tuesday raiders getting good parses, while the rest gets to suffer after they inevitably hotfix it again

If they were fine with us getting 10%, they wouldn't have removed it the first time around...

[fallow nimbus]

Man why is my raid always later that week when such a thing happens?

[steel zinc]

This

[steel zinc]

ngl whole tier is f imo if that happens

only fun thing during farm is gearing alts and parsing

[hollow spear]

It already happened

If it happens again, we won't even have enough catchup with the reward track to make up for it

[steel zinc]

yup

exactly

last time it was not that bad since in a few weeks or now 2 weeks left we catch up

[brittle plinth]

Serious sub question

How do I make friends?

Can I buy them? AH?

[steel jolt]

you gotta stack charisma

it's the BiS stat for the friend build

[solar geode]

whenever you find someone in a pug group that you think would be a positive influence to keep around you, send them this message: "Hey baby 😘 i like your style. wanna hang? i added you btw..."

works every time

[bleak night]

Remind them that you're a sub

[north schooner]

don't forget the cat ears and thigh high socks. It doubles the success rate

[cyan saddle]

can someone link me a good log for M Rik? trying to see cd usage

[brittle plinth]

This made me lol

[warm marlin]

lorrgs.io is your friend

[steel jolt]

https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/rik-reverb

[cyan saddle]

ohhh yaaaa forgot about that thanks guys!

ok so it seems you always want to hold a SD for barrels makes sense.

do we always save CB for sec tech?

[shrewd lantern]

Not really you just hit barrels near boss

[brittle plinth]

I know some ppl post youtube videos for informative purposes where they may even share insights, but making a video saying sub is the worst dps just makes it harder for me to sneak into grps 😄

[tribal blade]

trying to time 18 priory

is the only time this season i have thought "i really wish i could play meta comp right now"

[warm marlin]

cinder 12 holy moly (the havoc did infinity more boss dmg and prio than I did)

[plush roost]

On god i guarantee you with whatever comp you're playing if you just pull 2 casters maximum and chain in more as you move through the dungeon you can time this key

Everyone falls over because they pull like they have chains beam silence cause its what the meta comp does

Or they'll pull 2 lightspawn and 4 casters into amiya

Theres only a couple mandatory 3 caster pulls and as rogue you can use kidney and prio one down to stabilize

[hazy breach]

Yep

Mobs having literally 0 cd on casts that do most of your hp is cooked though

Like the rookery triple thunderer pull is just ugh

[plush roost]

Yep bolters are the most annoying trash and i wish they all had a thing that would break up the bolting agree

Like the spiders in arakara

Had the venom nova cast

Slower cast and you can solve it with pct

[hazy breach]

Give back the longer lockouts when you kick so a kick is actually good but aoe stops aint op as shit

Idk surely they do something in s3 right? They wouldnt just let beam and silence sigil be and keep the big caster packs right?

[plush roost]

Actually yeah, they nerfed kick lockout from 5 to 3 in df s2

[hazy breach]

Just as they surely will do something about meld, right

[short radish]

remove casts from the game, let us zug and do damage

[serene notch]

am i crazy, ret pallys are always chronically the worst when it comes to kicks?

[short radish]

larger population

so you notice it more

but it alos makes sense

since they can play from ranged

except when they need to kick

so they try to kick and theyre out of range

[viscid mulch]

hey, new to rogue and playing sub. can anyone recommend a combo point tracker weakaura? something that isnt on name plates.

[serene notch]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[tribal blade]

ahhh interesting

good tips!

[tribal blade]

yeah it's kinda ironic blizz wanted to cut down on how aids casters are in M+

and then this season happens

[prime glen]

Gushing Wound looking like the go-to for helm

[hybrid heath]

Is the First Dance Bug still a thing? using this macro?

#showtooltip Vanish
/cast Shuriken Storm
/cast Vanish

[prime glen]

for single target at least, is this correct

[short radish]

sure

[short radish]

bug fixed

[prime glen]

woot

yeah just checked warcraft logs, sure looks like it is, gonna give it a try

thx

[plush roost]

I mean aside from priory and rookery, which imo having one or 2 kick heavy dungeon in a season is fine, there aren't like too many mega scary bolters this season. Just rookery and priory. Necrotic bolts in top aren't going to one shot, till around 22, free samples doesn't one shot, boiling flames doesn't require a kick and won't rechannel on a stop, flood gate has a couple bolters at the very end of the dungeon, mechagon has only a few, motherlode bolters won't one shot and can be lived with a defensive/insane hps, dfc 6 bolters total throughout the dungeon. Idk last season was significantly more bolt dense

[tribal blade]

i guess so yeah

[plush roost]

They exist, but its not like arakara which had a bolter in every single pack till the last third of the dungeon

[tribal blade]

probably just feels bad to me right now because i'm in priory hell haha

[plush roost]

Or grimmyB

Even dawnbreaker had some bolters, they just got avoided at all costs

Our group hasn't rolled 1 priory 20 and i just wanna give it a go already zzz

So many mechagons and rookerys

And mechagon is farming us 😦

[tribal blade]

screw workshop

screw that 3rd boss

@plush roost is this season going to be the worst ever in terms of people buying title you think?

because of the resil system

[plush roost]

No idea depends on just how annoying it is to buy 20s next week

19 sales are already done and honestly not too difficult with a good group

Ik belt will be like 2% gain but thats only if people play charged bolts and not a defensive option

And idk how well the mastery option will play in aoe packs compared to charged bolts

Or w.e option works better for other classes

There were already plenty of buyers at the end of season 1 that magically got grim 16 and stonevault 17 etc

But there is only a finite amount of buyers, not everyone has the money or cares enough to purchase title so it could just be similar

I do think title will be higher tho, simply because a good friend group of gamers can ram their head into priory 19 for 6 hrs and time it via prog

[tribal blade]

yeah that's been a lot of this season

timing keys with someone's resil

i have the most IO in my group, and once i get resil 18 they get a free ride into getting all the 18s they need lol

[plush roost]

Yeah i get asked a lot if i have flood prio rook 19 in my bags

If i do and am bored i say I'll run some, my key is resilient but my time and patience is not

[tribal blade]

haha fair

i haven't asked a single friend once to run their resil keys

don't wanna be that guy

but maybe i should

[plush roost]

Eh worst thing that happens is they say no tbh

If you're not cringe about it ofc

[tribal blade]

TRUE

[lucid atlas]

eye of kezan or pacemaker for m+?

[upbeat cradle]

depends on if your tank lets your group have downtimes between each packs or not imo

but as soon as you drop out of combat Eye of Kezan loses lots of value

[keen dome]

Pacemaker, imo

[brisk onyx]

[vale pine]

eye is rly good if your tank chain pulls

[brisk onyx]

How much damage difference will there be if we backstab during dance or not?

[vale pine]

not that much, its like 0.3 or 0.4%

[short radish]

its also bad if you dont have find weakness up for sectech

[brisk onyx]

This is the trouble I have, especially M Lockenstock

😂

[short radish]

yeah

locken i dont do the backstab stuff

or i pay more attention if i cbf

[sly shore]

rogue sucks ass to parse in this raid rn

for later bosses, anyway

[heady dragon]

just pay everyone to not evaporate adds in 0,8seconds, and pray your tanks actually move the boss for once, wdym

[lilac stag]

Rogue just sucks.
(Fixed)

[sly shore]

This was a really fun vexie

[leaden prairie]

kiiiieeerrooooooonnnnnn

[sly shore]

zaaaaaaaaaaccccccccccccccccccc

[leaden prairie]

yas its me

[sly shore]

https://tenor.com/view/okey-smile-black-guy-okay-gif-13451179

[leaden prairie]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1071623449056915458/1204479291010850856/1089685999552036936.gif

[sly shore]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241219457238700142/1299880346401112115/bubuh.gif

[hollow spear]

I feel like the one time that happens is so bad that I am considering not doing it anymore

And I kinda cba tracking my FW

[hazy breach]

Its not. Macro still works

[short radish]

?????

i was lied to

[iron fjord]

what does this refer to? What bug?

[hazy breach]

If you press the messages thats being responded to youll find it

Oh the pin for it has been removed

[iron fjord]

x(

So it's fixed? :P

[hazy breach]

no

#subtlety message

[iron fjord]

you're the best, tyvm

[tepid trellis]

there were some people a week or so coming in saying it was fixed

so fuu prolly took the pin down

[hazy breach]

Ye doesnt matter much either way, but ye its not fixed

[haughty mural]

Maybe it should be pinned again?

[hazy breach]

Pins will likely be cluttered anyway come ptr so its fine

[haughty mural]

Agreed
I didn’t use my brain

[sly shore]

very surprised ptr not been announced yet

hopefully this coming reset

giving them 2 months

[hazy breach]

Waiting for .1.7 to hit so .2 can take up the ptr

[sly shore]

they've already got .2.5 on their internal ptr

[hazy breach]

Would be surprising if there was no news this week

[plush roost]

In a surprising turn of events blizzard shadow drops 11.2 and 11.1.7 was all a clever disguise

Tl scrambles

[swift tinsel]

can't wait to go through the list of bugs every new build to see which unnanounced fixes they put in

[plush roost]

Echo remains a day behind

[brittle plinth]

The heroes we need

[plush roost]

And every fix they broke again

[swift tinsel]

probably gonna get a DS-favored tier set, just wait

[keen dome]

oh no

[swift tinsel]

and they'll still leave Mark/DN bug in so we get to play with that

[brittle plinth]

Imagine

[keen dome]

I was surprised they didn't drop any info at the recent Xbox thing but yeah, maybe after 11.1.7 is out we'll get 11.2 info next week

[swift tinsel]

bug checking/tier/trinket testing is the only real fun I have in the game so it can hit ptr any time now

[keen dome]

Excited to see how buggy Delves become on reset

[swift tinsel]

I'll laugh when they aren't open bc they're too broken

a la AH merge

[keen dome]

haha

Timewalking dungeons getting their huge balance overhaul has the potential for immense comedy. Lorewalking and Arathi quest should be okay. Delves.. Well, Brann is a villain.

[brittle plinth]

"in and effort to fix player representation, we will be trying to encourage players to play underrepresented trees.

Sub players perk up

"This is specifically noticable for the rogue spec subtlety"

Sub players lean in further

"So in an effort to help balance things, and to cut down on the oversaturation of trickster players, we will be focusing on itemization intended to guide some sub players to death stalker"

Sub players wonder if this means bug fixes

"We feel this is all that's needed to get more diversity into the spec that is already working as intended"

Sub player vanishes

[keen dome]

Oh, the one-button / rotation assistant stuff is probably going to be interesting and also create a load of tedious discourse

[runic trail]

I'm working on getting my raid group to agree to play a few pulls with it on without saying anything to the raid leader

[keen dome]

I hope you pull it off because that's really funny

[runic trail]

I mean it'll get me benched for sure

[keen dome]

If I had a raider that could convince the entire group to give up their damage for a joke, I'd be deeply impressed.

[runic trail]

True, can't even get them to give up DPS to stay alive half of the time

[keen dome]

I am really curious to see it in action, but I fully expect it to be a situation of "the people who'd benefit the most refuse to try it"

[swift tinsel]

I know a few people in the guild who are excited for the rotation-assist feature, idk if anyone is gonna use the 1-button

got called an elitist for implying that people who need to use something like that or the 1-button thing might not be cut out for mythic raiding

[runic trail]

I raid lead the drunk Friday social raid, there are some people in there that... Yeah, in pushing for them to go one button.

I say raid lead, I more poke the drunk stragglers with a stick to make sure they're vaguely in the right place.

[daring raptor]

is there any sims for the titan disc belt for sub rogue anywhere?

[tidal marsh]

I heard there might be pins or summin

Not sure though

[daring raptor]

can only find for outlaw

Think i just found a way

will link it after

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/e7VVvHdiCrKuErGhKut6hF

if this is true

[swift tinsel]

check fuu's sheet

there are belt sims

[daring raptor]

it is so ass for sub compared to outlaw

where is fuu's sheet?

[swift tinsel]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

it stands to reason that a random damage proc effect would look better for a spec without a major burst window

[lilac stag]

Run a pug that requires only 1 button on. See how much soother the raid goes.

[keen dome]

Oooh

[swift tinsel]

day-one aotc in 11.2 with that

[keen dome]

lmao

[tidal marsh]

If not in 11.2, then defo in 12.0

When they kill add-ons and to compensate, turn all raid bosses into target dummies

[brittle plinth]

If 1-button means ppl don't die to fire, it's a win. But I suspect there will be some tuning involved.

[swift tinsel]

with the gcd penalty it introduces its own level of tuning

[keen dome]

I know multiple people who would benefit so much from using it, or at least giving it a go. Maybe they will.

[sly shore]

I think a full hc clear with it would be funny

maybe the first 6 mythic too

[keen dome]

Yeah, it'd be a lot of fun and a pretty interesting experiment.

Esp if you do it with a group that has a lot of logs. Because you could have a really good comparison between it in active use.

[orchid rampart]

So how is the belt dimming for outlaw as of right now? And can we only start simming it on Tuesday?

[sly shore]

it's on fuu's sheet

basically you equip it and get charged bolts in it

for almost every class in the game

[keen dome]

We zap now

[upbeat cradle]

Did they fix echoing void simming higher than normal ?

[brittle plinth]

Is every dungeon gonna be extra sparkly cause of all the bolts now?!

[upbeat cradle]

Pins don't say if it was fixed or not

[sly shore]

it's still there

which says to me

with my deductive reasoning skills

that it has in fact not been fixed

[runic trail]

If it was fixed, it'd be updated, still bugged unfortunately

[leaden prairie]

this guy is so smort wtf ...

i wish i was him

[sly shore]

someone in my guild was watching your stream the other day

and were disappointed

[leaden prairie]

why

[sly shore]

cos you swapped to sub on rookery

for last boss

[leaden prairie]

bro kieron

[vale pine]

lol

[leaden prairie]

i did a 5 phase

in 19

as outlaw

[sly shore]

(the 1.5m cd spec that has cd's for every single damage amp)

[leaden prairie]

5 phase

[upbeat cradle]

My youtube feed randomly recommended me your video, and i was like. That name and pfp looked familiar

[leaden prairie]

??

we 3 phase in 20

5 phase in 19

??

[sly shore]

crazy how good burst cd's are on a damage amp

[upbeat cradle]

ToP 21

[sly shore]

shocking, even

[leaden prairie]

Honestly kieron