subtlety

[open vortex]

idk

our strat is still quick tho

[alpine wraith]

it is a better tech to phase on 5 set instead of 6

[warm marlin]

I think we're phasing on 4 set

[alpine wraith]

no idea then

[warm marlin]

id have to look

[open vortex]

even with our rl doing like 0 dps, our speed ranking is like 20th fastest kill or something

i just press buttons

[warm marlin]

yeah you guys were still 3s faster than us

though we had a buyer

maybe I can convince them to spawn them again

[open vortex]

just lie and say sub got funnel back

[plush roost]

We spawned them, went coin shock, bomb coin, bomb shock, fire shock

The ultimate parse strat

[warm marlin]

I actually think we might be doing a ranged parse strat

[plush roost]

Push was tight with a buyer tho

[warm marlin]

for our spriest

we spawn so many dynamite booty

[plush roost]

Ahhhh those damn RANGED DPS

[warm marlin]

but they're just hard to cleave

[plush roost]

We put the dynamite booty by the spin to win spot

So melee cleave then when he summons adds

[warm marlin]

coin shock, shock bomb, flame coin, shock flame

[plush roost]

Ew

[warm marlin]

the week before we spawned legit 0 adds

so disgusting

[plush roost]

Smhmyhead

I couldn't parse gally today because we killed him before the 3rd intermission adds spawned

Madgeee

[warm marlin]

id honestly be happy if they excluded all the booty adds from that fight

its a bit goofy

[plush roost]

Ah like rashonan bugs

They should make stix trash not count for parsing and add it to allstars just to fuck over people

Would be quite the meme

Like ulgrax

[warm marlin]

holy boss dmg

[plush roost]

Yeah our hunter goes kinds crazy

[warm marlin]

weve had a buyer every single week for gally

[plush roost]

Thats pure boss dps lmao

[warm marlin]

but our kill times still a bit sussy

[plush roost]

We had buyers on boss 5-7 but we also we're trying to speedrun the clear

Did it pretty fast lmao, 1:47:32 from vexie to gally

[warm marlin]

ya ur hunter going wild

[plush roost]

Waiiit you're binguspuppy

That sprocket parse lives rent free in my head man

[warm marlin]

lmao

that thing is hard locked

[plush roost]

Did u just never drop winning streak or what

[warm marlin]

idk all 3 pulls I was similar pace

my sim + 12% raid buff is around 3.4M

[plush roost]

Crazy work

[warm marlin]

I do game the tier a bit

i dont think its necessarily optimal

but if its like 25s out from flag and I have coup im just rupture spamming

[plush roost]

I was -5% dps cause blizzard hates fun 😦 but i almost got there on cauldron

Yeah i also do that lowkey

[warm marlin]

i am NOT losing my tier before flag casting black powder

u wont catch me dead

[plush roost]

Sometimes if my cdr is correct i may even not rupture for 10 second and building shadowcraft

[warm marlin]

yea same

after eleem recommended it

[plush roost]

Not sure if thats actually optimal but it seems right

[warm marlin]

I also dont know if its good

but I hold vanish

while stacking those sht

[chrome palm]

It feels good to get winning streak from those backstabs before your flag

[warm marlin]

to vanish SS flag rupture doing into cds

to guarantee FW

[plush roost]

Oh for fw big tech

[warm marlin]

very nice on sprocket especially

[plush roost]

Wait thats gigahead

[warm marlin]

u just sit at 0 cp stacking sht

[plush roost]

Yoinking that lmao

I think i may need to dinar zeethugs next week to parse

Cause eye of kazan aint it at this pace

[warm marlin]

no pacemaker?

im afraid of thugs since the lust prepull bug thing

[plush roost]

I have one but i have too much crit so it doesn't sim very well

I was playing assa all tier so im sitting at a comfy 31% as sub rn

[warm marlin]

I think thats what im at

crit seems pretty good

i have my stats set for kezan though

with pacemaker proc my maghar sometimes rolls crit which seems sussy

[plush roost]

Oh shit im probably fucccked on parsing

Im night elf

[warm marlin]

yea maghar goated

especially on stuff like vexie

[plush roost]

Yesh I've been considering it a ton

But idk having meld is so goated in m+ this season

[warm marlin]

just have a second rogue

[plush roost]

My healer might kill me if i swap off and we walk into priory

Getting leapt on more than twice in a 2 minute window on first boss

Is soooo cursed

[hollow spear]

You want to use blades right before or after your first sectec

[open vortex]

before

[hollow spear]

That wasn't a question haha. You can do either.

[open vortex]

is it really fine to do blades after sectec? or is it as long as you get the clone hit

[warm marlin]

im an after enjoyer

[open vortex]

ive always done it before

[plush roost]

Is there a string for raidbots i can use to sim the other races? Kinda curious how diff maghar is to night elf for me

Scrolled tc pins but i cant find anything

[hollow spear]

With after you just have to activate it before clones

They hit with a 1.0 and 1.3 seconds delay

[plush roost]

I always sblades .5 seconds after sec tec so I can sneak one more blades global in

[warm marlin]

should just be able to change this line in your simc input

[hollow spear]

There should be. I simmed with it

[warm marlin]

I think there's a way to top gear it

but that way will work just quick sim testing

[plush roost]

Oh i see i see

Ill remember that

When im home

[hollow spear]

90s racials when

[plush roost]

The monkeys paw curls

Troll racial (haste) is now 90 seconds

Sub aint gettin shit

[worn ivy]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-gif-7523306793289960933

[brisk onyx]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow spear]

There's other 90s classes that are more popular though, so there's hope

[worn ivy]

Ruski did all dungeons in 19 when we have extra 5% 🙂 now i need to do it normally or reroll assa two choice

Or outlaw 🙂

Outlaw more fun but age restriction

[tribal blade]

remove combat enhancing racials from the game

make races purely cosmetic

[keen dome]

Or do my genius idea.

Talent tree: 1 passive, 1 active point. every passive / active racial in it.

Mix and match

season with a load of bleeds? Stoneform. But the raid fight really values escape artist? Swap and go

Unsure what Passives would be but. It'd be a way to keep them but let you swap around. You could just have it be 1 active point you swap about.

[sly shore]

paste your /simc output into advanced then put this under it with a space

profileset."Blood Elf"+="race=blood_elf"
profileset."Orc"+="race=orc"
profileset."Tauren"+="race=tauren"
profileset."Troll"+="race=troll"
profileset."Undead"+="race=undead"
profileset."Goblin"+="race=goblin"
profileset."Highmountain Tauren"+="race=highmountain_tauren"
profileset."Nightborne"+="race=nightborne"
profileset."Mag'har Orc"+="race=maghar_orc"
profileset."Zandalari Troll (Akunda)"+="race=zandalari_troll"
profileset."Zandalari Troll (Akunda)"+="zandalari_loa=akunda"
profileset."Zandalari Troll (Bwonsamdi)"+="race=zandalari_troll"
profileset."Zandalari Troll (Bwonsamdi)"+="zandalari_loa=bwonsamdi"
profileset."Zandalari Troll (Gonk)"+="race=zandalari_troll"
profileset."Zandalari Troll (Gonk)"+="zandalari_loa=gonk"
profileset."Zandalari Troll (Kimbul)"+="race=zandalari_troll"
profileset."Zandalari Troll (Kimbul)"+="zandalari_loa=kimbul"
profileset."Zandalari Troll (Kragwa)"+="race=zandalari_troll"
profileset."Zandalari Troll (Kragwa)"+="zandalari_loa=kragwa"
profileset."Zandalari Troll (Pa'ku)"+="race=zandalari_troll"
profileset."Zandalari Troll (Pa'ku)"+="zandalari_loa=paku"
profileset."Vulpera"+="race=vulpera"
profileset."Draenei"+="race=draenei"
profileset."Dwarf"+="race=dwarf"
profileset."Gnome"+="race=gnome"
profileset."Human"+="race=human"
profileset."Night Elf (Night)"+="race=night_elf"
profileset."Night Elf (Night)"+="timeofday=night"
profileset."Night Elf (Day)"+="race=night_elf"
profileset."Night Elf (Day)"+="timeofday=day"
profileset."Worgen"+="race=worgen"
profileset."Void Elf"+="race=void_elf"
profileset."Lightforged Draenei"+="race=lightforged_draenei"
profileset."Dark Iron Dwarf"+="race=dark_iron_dwarf"
profileset."Kul Tiran"+="race=kul_tiran"
profileset."Mechagnome"+="race=mechagnome```

[vale pine]

the entire fiall races:

[plush roost]

Ty kings

[vale pine]

Alright, time for a comparison:
old - 2.746M DPS
double buff- 3.001M DPS - +9%
new - 2.865M DPS - +4.3%

so back to the ~4% buff

[void ocean]

dead spec.

[vale pine]

not dead^^

[lilac stag]

Old - Dooming
Double Buff - We’re Back? Dooming.
New - Dead Spec Dooming.

[vale pine]

haha

[void ocean]

the only way

[lilac stag]

For one day Guy & I had a joint effort fighting off doom.

End of an era.

[void ocean]

tbh I gotta hand it out to Blizz for managing to make even long awaited buff feel like shit by overbuffing us for a day 😄

[lilac stag]

It wasn’t going to feel good at 5%

It was going to feel less bad

[void ocean]

i know

[lilac stag]

Then we actually did damage

So same result with feeling worse

Typical Sub treatment

The ironical part, the buff we actually needed was a mistake.

[alpine wraith]

now we are just mid but at least there

[plush roost]

Im just sad i feel like im griefing in keys as sub again

Maybe i can make ToP work

[fathom gazelle]

rip my 100 log parses on mugz as sub yday

[full acorn]

I feel disgusted how fast they hotfixed it

Like it was breaking the game or something

[lilac stag]

I’m curious if it was fucking with pvp. It sure as shit wasn’t in pve.

[plush roost]

I mean the 5% specifically did not effect pvp

Its in the note

Surely the extra 5% is the same?

[lilac stag]

But they left MM run wild for a month

[lilac stag]

No. They were buffed differently.

It was 2 separate ways of handling it.

[void ocean]

i told u they have an alarm on premises when sub tops any dps

[alpine wraith]

i parsed on some bosses but i could have done better

[void ocean]

u guys didnt believe me

[full acorn]

I just wanted to try the buff out some more in m+ :(

[keen dome]

4.6% less dooming

[tidal marsh]

World of Warcraft has been saved from the oppressive tyranny of the Sub rogue

Thank you mister Blizzard

[bleak night]

[hollow spear]

Wdym rip your logs

[keen dome]

All my logs are still there

[hollow spear]

Did they scrape them already?

[keen dome]

I'm WINNING

[bleak night]

i think my favorite part of this whole thing was realz starting to type then thinking better of it

[keen dome]

(At heroic)

He saw my heroic logs and thought "damn that guys gaming"

[alpine wraith]

rip our logs because better people parsed better

then it is donezo

but good thing is we are 2 raid buffs away to chip at them again

[keen dome]

I saw who stole my HCauldron 100.. And.. they did really good goddamn absolute blaster

[alpine wraith]

6% buff pog

[hollow spear]

My doom-o-meter went nuclear when I saw that

[alpine wraith]

he did well there are very immature people

[hollow spear]

Meh, I expected them to revert it anyway

I'm fine if we're mid

I'm just sad when we're absolute garbage dps

Of course the 9% would have felt better

[keen dome]

Ye

I mean we are still better than we were. We got a buff.

Middle of the pack is comfy for most stuff.

[hollow spear]

Maybe I won't have to scroll details down as much now

[lilac stag]

Always show me ✅

[hollow spear]

Hell no

[tulip gorge]

they are very scared of burst specs being good for some reason

[hollow spear]

Don't think that's true

[tidal chasm]

Why are so many of the top sub parsers running crit/vers neck with way more crit than me

but when i sim it I get loss no matter target count

[hollow spear]

Because sim tells them to?

My sim wants a lot of crit too

[tidal chasm]

why doesn't mine tho thats my question

[tulip gorge]

oh well at least I didn't make the mistake of crafting a neck for sub

[hollow spear]

I changed everything to sub

Won't go back to sin

Absolute snoozefest

[keen dome]

I don't think so because Devoker exists

Who can burst to 20m DPS

With like 2 butons

[hollow spear]

And gear doesn't matter for some bleed build +10s

[tulip gorge]

next season they will probably get gutted

just like unholy was with gargoyle

[hollow spear]

Marksman goes hard too with lust, no?

[keen dome]

Possibly! I'll bet 1 gold that they won't be.

[bleak night]

mm goes hard if they get procs

[keen dome]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kp4YthHqZn7VQjbm?fight=33&type=damage-done&source=342 Image is from this log

[bleak night]

but dev does it every time

[keen dome]

It's wild

[hollow spear]

The adds on aob help ofc

[bleak night]

yeah its so funny actually

[keen dome]

I thought i was playing well and I glance down at my details and the guy is fucking MASSIVE

[bleak night]

looking at damage on thsoe adds

[keen dome]

And it's like "what the fuck!!!!"

[hollow spear]

Dev eats those for breakfast

[keen dome]

It's amazing

[hollow spear]

They don't survive until second sectec

Maybe a cb on first sectec angle actually, I played sin on that fight tho

[fathom gazelle]

!logs

[lilac stag]

The really aren’t. Just sub rogue since they seem to be convinced we have some magic juju.

Fury ran wild nearly an entire tier on Queen.

Enhancement multiple tiers

Dev is doing dev things

Arcane doing sub profile better.

[tulip gorge]

didn't they notoriously destroy warrior last season

[lilac stag]

nope

[tulip gorge]

pretty sure they did

they nerfed the shit out of them

[lilac stag]

Neefed, yes. It was still very strong

and it was literally 2 buttons instant burst

Versus actual setup

[tulip gorge]

so needed they ended up giving multiple consecutive buffs to warriors

warriors got memed on last season

[lilac stag]

I mean it got tweaked and adjusted. The ST profile for both were not great

but the burst hard carried that fight

All they way until like the last 6 weeks of the season

[alpine wraith]

doing ovi nax week 1

and queen week 2

warriors got the sub treatment tho

[lilac stag]

and enhance ran wild all tier

[alpine wraith]

snapped in 2

fdk also got nerfed like three times

[tulip gorge]

yeah the enhance situation was disgusting

[alpine wraith]

and was still good

[lilac stag]

and FDK still is top spec

[alpine wraith]

im wondering has there ever been a time when sub got nerfed but was still good

hmm

[tulip gorge]

was it though

[alpine wraith]

every time we have gotten any nerf it was back to assa

[tulip gorge]

wasn't fdk played just because it was tanky

[alpine wraith]

or outlaw

[tulip gorge]

and the m+ season was cancer

[lilac stag]

nope

[alpine wraith]

nah fdk was blasting

everything

[lilac stag]

FDK was blasting

[tulip gorge]

at the start yes

[lilac stag]

st and adds

[tulip gorge]

but then they got nerfed

[lilac stag]

And still blasting

[alpine wraith]

was still one of the best melees

[tulip gorge]

and the community threw a hissy fit and they got nerfed even harder

[lilac stag]

and still blasting.

[alpine wraith]

now i do find funny how it got benched whole tier for RFW

but is still quite good now

[tulip gorge]

but enh shaman was incredibly overtuned after their mini-rework

and they got slaps on the wrist

[alpine wraith]

in normal people's raid

[lilac stag]

Warrior struggles with their execute shit. Just like assa. Way stronger for prog, falls off with quicker kills.

[tulip gorge]

dk was undertuned in raid at the start of the season, they had to get buffed to be good

[lilac stag]

Also wtf does whirlwind still exist.

[tulip gorge]

warrior has a button bloat problem

[lilac stag]

DK was simming higher than rogue at the start. lol

[tulip gorge]

ok but sims != reality

[lilac stag]

our sims were mid to low.

We are mid to low

= reality

[tulip gorge]

assa is the lowest simming spec and it's doing quite well in raid lol

[mental flume]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Assa is doing well on fights with execute or adds to funnel

Assa is shit on ST and quick kills

it’s going to continue 📉

[tulip gorge]

fdk is one of the highest simming specs but in reality it's hard to get these numbers

[lilac stag]

our two don’t seem to have issues

Get the numbers just fine

also good pi targets

[tulip gorge]

this discussion makes me want to play DK now lol

[alpine wraith]

unholy dk is fun

[lilac stag]

It’s sure as shit not as convoluted as Sub

[tulip gorge]

current unholy is disgusting

[alpine wraith]

but not because of gameplay

just because big numbers

[lilac stag]

I think people just struggle with planning movements

On DK more than anything else

[tulip gorge]

if sub had their numbers I would play sub 100%

but sub is not allowed to

[lilac stag]

double buffed we were still 200k behind ST sims and behind in game

no fun allowed

[alpine wraith]

i mean we were only 1 million dps behind hunters

could be worse right

[tulip gorge]

you could be below aug evoker

[alpine wraith]

we were

but only 200k dps

whew

[tulip gorge]

I need to learn my lesson about playing specs that are good at the start of a raid tier

[alpine wraith]

i mean sub is infamous for those kind of kekw

[tulip gorge]

they are just guaranteed to be bad later on

[lilac stag]

sub is just a walking red flag 🚩

[bleak night]

Yeah if your spec is good week 1 it's gg

[lilac stag]

blizzard chooses the bear over the sub rogue

[tulip gorge]

if the RWF is stacking your class, it's over

[lilac stag]

One rogue complaining it was shit on the fights.

it never started.

[wicked urchin]

remember when we were sniffing copium and saying the extra buff wouldn’t get reverted

i do

[tulip gorge]

expecting blizzard to not prioritize positive bugs

lmao

[lilac stag]

rather we have a bit of hope than non stop dooming when something good happens.

[tulip gorge]

you can rot with negative bugs tho

[lilac stag]

so now just carry on playing assa and dooming.

Like nothing happened

[tulip gorge]

when is 11.1.7 releasing?

[wicked urchin]

i just hate being passionate about a spec and being ignored

[tulip gorge]

in June?

[lilac stag]

[wicked urchin]

god forbid us be good

[tulip gorge]

can't wait to doom on PTR

[lilac stag]

If it’s like 11.5 it’ll get release and the content shows up a month later

[bleak night]

[lilac stag]

Perhaps don’t play rogue then

[bleak night]

Should've been a mage

[wicked urchin]

you can’t tempt me to the dark side

i’ve played my character since late vanilla

[lilac stag]

nothing is going to change. Literal pages of changes for other classes. We get a foot note if we’re lucky.

[wicked urchin]

i’m an otp through and through

[alpine wraith]

yea i learnt from bad lessons if you play other classes

you end up not playing rogue for prog

because it is cheeks most of the time

[north schooner]

it's way easier for them to fix a simple bug that they just introduced, rather than bugs which have existed for months tbh

[wicked urchin]

and like i’ll play assa because i love progging but

it’s not the same level of fun

[tulip gorge]

I was hyped at the start of the season to play sub

but at least outlaw is playable in m+

[wicked urchin]

assa on sire was pretty fun though

p2 was great

[lilac stag]

I’d be hyped if they actually fix sub’s core spec

that ain’t happening

[alpine wraith]

sub is kinda weird rn in that it has some things that are useless

and more annoying than helpful

[wicked urchin]

sub just needs an overhaul but i have no clue what the best thing would be

[alpine wraith]

also "burst" lasting 30 secs

is laughable

you even need to ramp

[lilac stag]

They just need to finish the rework they started

[alpine wraith]

2 easy things i would do fast is kill shadowed and sec tech multi hits

[lilac stag]

and not purposely zero value the talents they didn’t get to

[alpine wraith]

just make sec tech give the big hit once and that is it

no copies fuckery

maybe if they want to keep FW get it to old power to 100 or 80 and just ditch all this shadowy nonsense

[lilac stag]

Improve CDR by .1-.2 seconds

[wicked urchin]

i just feel we should have some agency outside of our burst window

which is almost identical every time

[alpine wraith]

what agency we had that in dust and people rioted

and that is also how you get 6 diff cds with diff timings

[wicked urchin]

am i the only person who liked dust

[alpine wraith]

because fuck you

[wicked urchin]

surely i’m not

[alpine wraith]

i liked dust

it let me play like i wanted

but people want to macro 5 things together

and use them every min or so

we are the minority

[lilac stag]

our agencies outside of CDs is CDR. That’s it. The cost of abilities makes it feel worse than it is.

[wicked urchin]

adjusting timings for important parts of fights felt good

[wicked urchin]

and god forbid you lose uptime

[lilac stag]

Which is why people cope that tea is amazing.

[wicked urchin]

tea is cringe for every spec

[alpine wraith]

it would be good if higher energy abilities that did lots of dmg existed

[wicked urchin]

i will not take that back

[alpine wraith]

like imagine if you had a 70 or 100 energy finisher

[tulip gorge]

doesn't current sub kinda allow you to hold on your dance windows a bit?

[alpine wraith]

that you would want to use sparingly but it was more powerful

[wicked urchin]

it was cooler slightly when you could do it only manually

[alpine wraith]

we are just made as if energy didnt exist or something

[lilac stag]

Dance should be the power. Not flag/blades

[alpine wraith]

where were the devs that did the math of opportunity cost

vs usage

[lilac stag]

But we’re so far away from that

[alpine wraith]

rn energy is cosmetic

[lilac stag]

symbols should be the dance enhancer like it is with super chsrger

[alpine wraith]

you do nothing with it you just have infinite or none

[lilac stag]

1 90sec cd

None of this disjointed shit

[wicked urchin]

gally was miserable with energy for us

[lilac stag]

and the spec magically gets a huge QoL

M+ is awful trying to pay around 2 90 seconds cds not getting fully used

unless on a boss

[wicked urchin]

being on adds and them running to narnia and missing a few seconds of cdr when i needed it

[lilac stag]

Delete the final part of the SL covenant shitshow please

[full acorn]

Is the meta to just funnel damage as sub in high keys?

[alpine wraith]

ahahaha

[vestal escarp]

#subtlety message

This funnels

[north schooner]

m+ would also feel better if the dances were every ~30s instead of ~45s like now, even if peak burst (outside of blades) was lower. It still aligns with 90s cds, but it becomes more flexible between packs

[solar charm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Because that channel was the one and only “non abused” place on this server.

[vale pine]

people might just want to play deathstalker

[lilac stag]

People wanting to play DS aren’t people.

They’re monsters.

[bleak night]

[alpine wraith]

i mean if you read and dont know it works it sounds cool

but then you play it

singular meme fatal joke

darkest nuts

[wild hornet]

Good riddance chat

See you on the other side

[void ocean]

what joke

[lilac stag]

it’s in tc research.

The date stamp should be obvious

[void ocean]

dont make me go there

[short radish]

tell your RL i called him a try hard nerd

[alpine wraith]

he lost 20 dinocoins too

the currency of the future

[short radish]

another L for this RL

[wicked urchin]

petition to rename it DD for deep depression

Dark Daggers

Rogue enough

[formal helm]

could've been nice if they actually tried

the theme was nice enough

but the implementation of it was...

uhh.

yes.

[wicked urchin]

deep depression?

or just simplified to miserable

it’s bad

even with assa at a base level DS was awful

[wild hornet]

Give me that 4m log on bandit and write it under my name

[wicked urchin]

different timings on ansurek p1? rip mark

court? rip mark

[rocky ocean]

Guy named mark

[hazy breach]

Sub doesnt care about the mark

Its super easy to reapply

[wicked urchin]

and i mean if you play around it and it wouldn’t happen unless you fuck up but holy shit it was annoying

ya i’m talking about ass rogue

[vestal escarp]

Ass rog 🗣️ 🗣️

[void ocean]

Hacha-Tuah coin 😄

[tribal blade]

hey guys is it true we're double buffed?

[alpine wraith]

wake up dog

parsing time is over

[tribal blade]

sad days

i still managed to get a good sub parse on bandit tonight

[alpine wraith]

i got something like an 80

[void ocean]

i finished vision farm before we got nerfed

and one delve

whop-di-fckin-do

so much to tell to my grankids

[tribal blade]

oh damn i got stomped on, it was a 97 at the time and now it's a 94

reeeee

[void ocean]

omg, uninstall 😄

[lilac stag]

Another washed sub rogue playing too much assa

https://tenor.com/view/game-of-thrones-shame-got-shame-gif-11998610

[void ocean]

turn on one button rota

[lilac stag]

I’m waiting for Fuu’s gnome sequence input for assa

[frozen lichen]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[void hound]

surely WCL wiped the logs

[tepid trellis]

you'd prolly have to go and ask em about it

[lilac stag]

another hidden buff!

[hallow sigil]

So sub<assa again after the hotfix?

[alpine wraith]

depends on boss and kill timer

just kill bosses in 3:50 or 5:50

[void hound]

@tepid trellis beat me to it, god bless

[tidal chasm]

do all the parses with the 10% buff stay up

[tepid trellis]

depends on what they answer me with

if they wanna scrap them or not

[warm marlin]

[tidal chasm]

well seeing as I didn't get to parse they should all be taken down

[warm marlin]

I thought about messaging them myself tbh

[alpine wraith]

ahaha

big parse situation

[lilac stag]

There’s only what 500 or less parses to scrape

[alpine wraith]

there were like 3xx na ones then maybe another 200 then like 400 from eu maybe?

who knows

[warm marlin]

My sprocket

[alpine wraith]

take a ss now

[lilac stag]

does it bring all the boys to the yard?

[void hound]

yeah they are up currently

[warm marlin]

They should leave them up since surely they will add back the extra 5% aura next week

[tidal chasm]

you make us all look like little pepegs take it down i can't handle the shame

[warm marlin]

you know deep in your heart it was with the extra 5%

why shame

[opal basalt]

why did they have to hotfix

[lilac stag]

rogue not a dps class

[warm marlin]

I’m also not entirely convinced there wasn’t some other stuff going on early

We raid very early after reset and even if you subtract 10% from that sprocket it’s still r1

Something seems fishy

[lilac stag]

kill times?

[warm marlin]

Ya it was a very good kill time

[lilac stag]

idk what other specs you have got buffed

imagine the timing just hit the sub juice rather well

[warm marlin]

Good rng, kill time, etc

[tidal chasm]

maybe you got lucky and your tierset actually applied to all your sectechs

[warm marlin]

It was also before the extra buff was even noticed

I wouldn’t be surprised if they insta applied a hot fix that semi reverted some things

[lilac stag]

Idk I was pumping on pull of mugzee later in the night

[warm marlin]

[lilac stag]

and that was going on when I think people noticed the extra

I wasn’t watching discord

Just going to run TFD and say fuck it. Will swap to assa if we actually need execute

I can’t take any more assa ST

[tribal blade]

i think mugzee is a long enough fight where WM would be better

[warm marlin]

Something about tfd not making me cast symbols right as sectec cd hits 10 makes me upset

If only it was a couple extra seconds so the second sectec would hit in dance

[alpine wraith]

nah mug zee still tfd mostly because you sometime can use storm

if you cast like some storms at all in the fight the paltry dps wm gives extra is lost

[tribal blade]

ah ok fair enough

[lilac stag]

I think more burst at the start to push faster is what we need at the moment.

[tribal blade]

i did the entire of mugzee prog as sin 😉

[lilac stag]

plus there is some downtime

[alpine wraith]

i was put on gaol duty

[lilac stag]

WM falls off if you’re not on the boss

[alpine wraith]

did shite dps and we also didnt break last zap boys

so rip dps there too

[lilac stag]

I have one jail to deal with

[tribal blade]

mugzee is pretty rng on parsing

[alpine wraith]

i did all jails

xd

[lilac stag]

superstar

[tribal blade]

heavily depends on your assignments and what mechanics you get

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/superstar-molly-shannon-gif-19565558

[alpine wraith]

nah fuck that at least we only do 3 now

[tribal blade]

like if you have a pull where you get back to back jails and boots

you're not parsing

[alpine wraith]

we skip second one

no it is worse i have to go inside always

so parse is dead anyway

[tribal blade]

yeah that's omega sad

[warm marlin]

Is it really that bad to play gaols

[lilac stag]

I just want boss dead

[tribal blade]

you lose uptime doing gaols no matter what you do

[warm marlin]

I volunteered when I swapped to sub

Seemed fine

[lilac stag]

it’s me and the dev in one

Should be out immediately. Lol

[warm marlin]

The first gaol is rather unfortunate

I think we’re doing the 3 minute push strat now though

[tribal blade]

it's probably fine for sub, as sin every jail set lines up with KB

[warm marlin]

Seems pretty good for sub tbh

[tribal blade]

so if you get a jail you ahve to lose 50% of your KB uptime

[lilac stag]

KB such a big CD

[warm marlin]

Yeah sin getting gaoled and not gripped is a war crime

[tribal blade]

yeah but that's KB with shivs attached /cry

[lilac stag]

I know

also fuck assa

[old venture]

wtf

[warm marlin]

Our last kill the timings were weird and I had to send a KB in the jail

[lilac stag]

I’ve done my time. I can’t do it any more.

ST is abysmal

[old venture]

You’ve done your time good meme

As if sub wasn’t the best spec like all of DF

[lilac stag]

Good thing you like sub

[old venture]

Yeah loved shadowdust sub

Great version

[warm marlin]

Assa had a great time in amirdrassil wdym

[old venture]

Loved spreadsheeting bosses and having kill time varieties

[warm marlin]

Surely they did not get old yellered

[old venture]

Sub was better for the 3 bosses that mattered

[lilac stag]

better than envenom simulator 5000

[warm marlin]

Paid for augs sins

[lilac stag]

You mean you love having Stealthi spreadsheet bosses

[old venture]

Stealthi released his sheet while I was deep in p3 Fyrakk prog big dog

[bright elk]

When did we swap from the rotten to 1/2 finality in ST? I must have missed that change

[swift tinsel]

few months ago

[lilac stag]

Months ago

[native zodiac]

since the start of the tier pretty much

[bright elk]

oof lol

[old venture]

Didn’t do much except give me proof that my varieties weren’t cooked

[lilac stag]

Now we’re swapping to TFD

[bright elk]

I copied my talents at the beginning of the tier, must have been shortly before that. didnt realize it changed

[lilac stag]

If you want to be ahead of the meta build

[warm marlin]

TFD delaying my carefully planned flag timings 😦

[bright elk]

is this for realsies or a meme

[lilac stag]

real

5 minutes sims is basically a wash

[warm marlin]

I need to play assa on vexie next week

[bright elk]

intersting

[warm marlin]

But 2/2 finality is a cook for that fight

[lilac stag]

Galy likely only boss for WM still

[warm marlin]

Maybe even the full PE burst window cook

[bright elk]

so basically past 5 mins WM pulls slightly ahead?

[lucid jackal]

Mugzee is still a slow boss

[lilac stag]

You can sim it, but it’s like 5000 dps diff with 100% uptime.

[bright elk]

good to know, will do

are we still 100% trickster or is there a use case for the other tree?

[twin surge]

the tfd bug is still valid? the one in the pins.

[brittle plinth]

Yesterday I did some math on how many crests I would need, broke it down by runs and how long runs take. You know what I didnt consider in my calculations?

the 40 mins to get into a run lol

[lilac stag]

It’s a 5:30 or less. The strat matters. And if you’re casting Storm at all WM goes even lower.

jump more pump on pull

Not gonna make or break anything either way.

[brittle plinth]

This is the entire list for 10s this morning haha

[lilac stag]

12 is the new 10

[brittle plinth]

Ya I kinda went alts after getting 10s and didnt realize this

I need to get up to 12 I reckon

should do 11s I suppose

[tepid trellis]

yeah i started making it when you were in p2 hell

i remember giving you editor access to it

[old venture]

Pain

[old venture]

Turns out our Druid was just not putting mark of the wild on the adds

Or doing damage

We replaced him with our new enhancement shaman and killed Fyrakk in 5 pulls

[vale pine]

lol

[tepid trellis]

huh?

[old venture]

Yeah…

He also kept messing up his seed in p3

It was pain

[tepid trellis]

nah im confused af

mark of the wild?

[swift tinsel]

mark the raid buff?

[tepid trellis]

the raid buff?

[old venture]

You could cast mark on the adds

[tepid trellis]

oh

the healer adds

[swift tinsel]

ohhh

[old venture]

He just never did

Because why would our healers benefit from the healing adds receiving more healing for a single global for a guy who was doing no damage anyway?

[tepid trellis]

well just a vers buff no?

[old venture]

Ye

[tepid trellis]

so all you are really getting is a tiny DR on them from the ticking dmg

[old venture]

It affected their heal on the tree too apparently

Or at least that’s what I was told

[tepid trellis]

think you got gaslit

[old venture]

Probably

Fyrakk was sad times for me

397 pulls

[tepid trellis]

yeh we did not buff em with mark

on our prog

at all xD

nvm we did

[old venture]

Well we died a lot in p2 to adds being fucked up

So it would’ve been nice

For them to have that vers

[vale pine]

to be fair the fight was visually a clusterfuck

[old venture]

His replacement saved us from a wipe on the kill

[tepid trellis]

fyrakk is still my favorite end boss

[vale pine]

haha

but sylvanas was the most epic one ^^

[tepid trellis]

hell no

fyrakk actually felt like a worthy end boss

[swift tinsel]

the whole chain section completely ruined that fight for me

[vale pine]

i was memeing, i think echo or liquid had that meme of sylvanas being the best end boss

[swift tinsel]

though it did provide plenty of laughs for one of my guildmates constantly falling in cracks

[idle pilot]

They used to call me the silver surfer.

[dire chasm]

Now, with the correct buff, in a progress raid (bandit 10% atm) do you recommand to still play assa or go for sub ? (I like to play both, I'm fine with both, just want to give the biggest output I can for my guild)

[tepid trellis]

Assa will do more overall dmg

more boss dmg, sub will do slightly more attendant dmg

[dire chasm]

on the spreadshit sub seems to sim higher, and in the past 2 weeks, the boss dmg from sub was a bit ahead from sin

that's why I'm asking :p

[fleet wharf]

If you can play both shouldn't it lean a bit towards sub unless the adds are melting instantly?

[lilac stag]

sub should technically higher dmg for the boss. If the adds can get funneled in assa will pull ahead

[solemn lance]

when did the hotfix on sub go live that pulled us back 5 of the 10%

was it that Tuesday night?

[tepid trellis]

last night

[lilac stag]

430 pm central wed

[solemn lance]

oof, thanks

[full acorn]

Fastest hotfix ever done

[solemn lance]

lol literally ever! They said you know what you are not overperforming even with 10, but F that

gone

[lilac stag]

If you’re kiting bombs around in the last phase assa should win out.

[lusty epoch]

do you guys know if there's a crit cap for sub? I think I'm simming correctly and it want me to change stats on crafting item from 602 mastery into 602 crit. But changing 903 mastery into crit is a loss of dps.
Just checking to see if I'm doing something wrong

i'm at 23% crit right now, 7383 crit

[lilac stag]

stop worrying about raw stat numbers and just do top gear sim with enchants and gems.

[dire chasm]

thanks for the info, actually adds are melting, we've got enough cleave, I just want to melt the boss :p

[lilac stag]

play whichever you enjoy more than

or wherever CDs lines up better with projected kill time

[lucid jackal]

Sub post buff is really solid

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[lyric lily]

Hows the huge buff bois?! Sub back on top of the foodchain? 👀

[lucid jackal]

Seems good in raid at least

did more damage on sub on basically every boss

[bright elk]

Has the sheet been updated with the 5%?

[tidal chasm]

how bad is taking finality instead of rotten in m+ actually

[tepid trellis]

quite bad

[chrome palm]

The rotten is really good at consistently spreading find weakness which is quite important on 5+ tar, at the same time being quite close in ST

[tepid trellis]

Rotten is basically your guaranteed FW spread

[fallow nimbus]

Until the storm talent has a better position

[chrome palm]

The rotten but worse

We love silent storm

[vestal escarp]

tree is fine chat

[chrome palm]

Every time I see momentum of despair in the talent tree, I die a little

No I’m thinking of terrifying pace/night terrors

Because sub has mobility problems

[hollow spear]

It's not... There's just too many great talents to choose from!

[shrewd lantern]

You will waste a talent point on shroud movespeed and like it bozo

[swift tinsel]

nah that one's actually useful

[plush roost]

I wish speed shroud was on all 3 specs on god

Anytime I'm sub in a key i just make race car noises in comms

Idc zoooom

[old venture]

Maybe in 12.0 they’ll fix it

After they rework shadow priest 4 more times

[hollow spear]

Everytime I go back to sin

I feel like a dk

[swift tinsel]

between shadowrunner and speedshroud its zoomin time

dude same lol

[old venture]

Why is Dave always so upset

[swift tinsel]

I think we all know the answer to that

[keen dome]

Speed best stat. Just stack speed.

[swift tinsel]

if I can't have Burst of Speed I'm damn well gonna pretend

[vale pine]

dave is not upset

[old venture]

It probably smells in that bush

I wouldn’t blame him if he was

[glacial orbit]

[old venture]

[serene notch]

Just shadowstep to the adhd DH tank dummy 😏

[vale pine]

[swift tinsel]

I def shadowstep in stealth for the extra lil burst of speed

[keen dome]

Same

[serene notch]

Prob goated all time movement ability going to say SS and heroic leap

[swift tinsel]

Idk tiger's lust pretty goated

[chrome palm]

Step killing you because it’s not quite a teleport

Not what I’d call goated

[swift tinsel]

def never done that, not once

[lilac stag]

catlike reflexes is the goat of all movement abilities.

[swift tinsel]

I miss her

[lucid jackal]

I legit felt the opposite yesterday because I didn't have enough steps for mugzee

Because no DSM step reset

[serene notch]

I use SS so much to reposition onto prior targets in messy pulls so much it’s hard when I play other melee

[lucid jackal]

Without this u cant 3 step mugzee charges

[hollow spear]

True

I just sprint the first or second one usually

[night sparrow]

Sprint the first then double shadowstup worked fine on Mugzee for me

yup

so u have it again for icelance

[lucid jackal]

3 step > 2 step

[graceful crown]

[serene notch]

Listen to this guy his math checks out

[plush roost]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NFwA7yrhLzgXbYT2?fight=63&pull=3&start=18489520&end=18510229&type=damage-done&source=2&target=823

I did this build in rookery 19

for last boss

and holy schmokes does it blast

15m dmg amp with lust, 14m second shield, boss died before the third shadow hit on cb sec tec lmao

kaboom

[lilac stag]

TFD for one lethality me thinks

[hollow spear]

Aren't you burning tfd during shield?

Might not be worth

[plush roost]

tfd aint it on that boss for sure

you need to dance on shield once

[lilac stag]

idk still maybe worth

[hollow spear]

I think you want to juice amp damage as much as possible

[plush roost]

ye

[hollow spear]

And tfd will be gone by the first amp

[worn ivy]

Guess the bottom yellow

[plush roost]

I compared it to other rogues doing the normal m+ setup and its 3m dps higher per amp

[lilac stag]

Compared after buff or?

Genuinely just curious and tossing out conversation nothing else.

[plush roost]

I have a post buff and prebuff log of it, talking prebuff numbers rn

Post buff its like an extra 150k to the difference

[lilac stag]

The 3m less was with your talent setup or?

[plush roost]

Normal m+ build according to a zeross log i looked at, did 11-12m per amp window

This setup doing 14-15m

[warm marlin]

Pretty sure Eleem said that talent setup would do better in cases like rookery boss when he was talking to zeross about it before

The dark brew one

#subtlety message

[plush roost]

Yeah and downstairs is all 5 target pulls with civilians spattered anout

So swapping to it isnt a big loss without rotten

Since u dont storm for fw at 5 targets

[crimson wind]

Are these buffs going to make sub great again or what, please give me any reason to come back and not play sin anymore

[plush roost]

Nah

Decent in raid now

M+ maybe ML and ToP

[lilac stag]

rookery last boss.

[crimson wind]

I mostly care about raid

[plush roost]

And that

[random hare]

hmm

[plush roost]

Well it aint bad it in raid middle of the packisg

[random hare]

i see what u did there with removing rupture

[plush roost]

Hello king

[random hare]

i think your into something

[lilac stag]

if youre still progressing in raid its a toss up. If youre reclearing it doesnt matter

[plush roost]

I think so too planned execution kinda bangs

[random hare]

i like ur cook

[lilac stag]

There’s no reason to try to get to the shield phase faster at that lvl? Or does that just naturally happen fast enough.

[random hare]

will try on my next rookery

[crimson wind]

Progging myth rn, on stix, it’s pretty hard to justify playing sub over sin rn I just want A single good reason and I’m back lol

[plush roost]

I think you can 3 shield 21 rook with this

Lowkey

[random hare]

nah

u cant

i like how ur eager about it tho

[lilac stag]

24 hours later. Zeross: I think you can 3 shield rook 21 with this cook

[random hare]

nah cuz

[plush roost]

Idk the health pool maybe im over shooting

[random hare]

19 and 20

is a big gap

[plush roost]

Definitely 3 shield 20 tho

[random hare]

but

21

is like

maybe 2-3% wipe

amps on 20/21 are harder than u think tbh

[lilac stag]

powers combined with arcane

[shrewd lantern]

If you’re still progging it doesnt matter

[plush roost]

Yeah breaking the shield on time is hard on 20

[shrewd lantern]

90% of things stopping you from progging this late

are mechanical failures

[lucid jackal]

Sub is good in raid now

If u wanna play sub play sub

[lilac stag]

Some bosses are still better suited and if you’re still progging this level guess what dps still matter to make up for lower overall talent of the raid.

[lucid jackal]

If u don't wanna play sub don't play sub

[shrewd lantern]

I feel mugzee is the only clear sin winner

[lilac stag]

but play whatever makes you happy

[shrewd lantern]

no?

[honest basin]

One good reason to play sub: spec fun

[warm marlin]

Meh mugzee is either at this point

[lucid jackal]

Depends if Ur doing p1 push strats

[plush roost]

We went into 20 rook and wiped after first boss, due to dk pet aggroing the pack when we fell, but wanted to see how last boss went and yeah those shields kinda banged

[shrewd lantern]

granted nukkz is r1 all rogues

as sub rn

[lucid jackal]

Rankings don't tell u what spec is better

[clever delta]

i usually step first two and than sprint the short one

[lucid jackal]

If Ur doing fast strats, sub will be better

Our guild stops dps at 3 minutes almost on the dot

[graceful crown]

I always mained sub but this season changed to outlaw maybe its time to do less dps

[lucid jackal]

So sub sucks

[warm marlin]

Sin was better on mugzee when execute damage was really important and the extra goon damage was useful

[random hare]

what boss are u talking about

[warm marlin]

Ur so buffed at this point that both of those niches are whatever

[shrewd lantern]

mugzee

he has highest rn

[random hare]

half our wipes i end at 3.8m dps btw

on mugzee

[clever delta]

yeah, now sin inst anything special

[random hare]

as sin

[shrewd lantern]

but yeah isnt current mugzee strat good with sub

the push before 2nd jails

[lilac stag]

That’s what guy just said

[warm marlin]

We are pushing at 3mins so ye I do think sub is prob better with that strat

[lucid jackal]

That is exactly what I just said! Yep

[random hare]

i got r3 while being in jails

on last phase

was REALLY BAD

[shrewd lantern]

i think we cant pot

[random hare]

going in jails as sin

is like

[shrewd lantern]

else we push too early

[random hare]

-500k dps

[shrewd lantern]

for prot’s bubble

[random hare]

at last phase

cuz execute+pot+cds

and cleave 3 goons

or 2

[shrewd lantern]

go velf

noober

[honest basin]

Velf

Ez clap

[random hare]

im nightelf for m+

w.e

[plush roost]

Haha velf this late into season

[random hare]

idc about lgos that much

if i did i'd swap to velf ye

[warm marlin]

Just have your friendly priest grip you out

[shrewd lantern]

just go maghar and wipe if you get a jail

[honest basin]

I'm velf because the guild I joined 3 xpacs ago was alliance and it's the closest I can get to belf

[shrewd lantern]

obvs

[plush roost]

You're nelf now? Not maghar? Meld too good huh

[random hare]

on maghar i think i can end mugzee at 4m dps

lmao

if i get lucky ofc

no jails

no bullshit

then its gg

[plush roost]

Just blindside more bruh

[random hare]

u need good rng too for that dps kinda

[shrewd lantern]

i think with our current timings

if i play sin i only get 3rd set of dm

[hollow spear]

How's sin's rng compared to sub?

[shrewd lantern]

and one kb

and boss dies

considering we have him at like 17%

[random hare]

idk i'd say the same

[shrewd lantern]

as jails go out

[random hare]

sin feels more rng imo

[hollow spear]

Sin just feels bad if you don't get procs or mut doesn't crit

[random hare]

idk how it is in sims tho

but

as a guy who likes to watch details more than irl

i can tell u rng on sin feels bad

[plush roost]

Sin when u have to mut three times in the opener :(((

[random hare]

💀

[lilac stag]

Just get more blindside procs

[shrewd lantern]

sin is funny when you proc so many blindsides in opener

[lilac stag]

Shit assa spec

[shrewd lantern]

that ambush is your #2 dam

[warm marlin]

When you’re specced into sin :((((

[random hare]

well

u need blindside procs in ur kingsbane at 35%

and

[plush roost]

Yeee thats the big one

[random hare]

blindside procs at last set of goons + u have to not get in jail

if u do

its gg

[plush roost]

Blindside in execute

[lilac stag]

You need blindside procs to stay awake

[plush roost]

Lmao teue

[shrewd lantern]

real

[plush roost]

Especially with vv build

[hollow spear]

Not even those help

[plush roost]

Holy resident sleepwr

[hollow spear]

I hate vv build

[shrewd lantern]

also its kinda annoying

[random hare]

vv is crazy good once u optimize it well

[hollow spear]

One mut every five hours

[shrewd lantern]

how getting tank soak makes you miss dry shiv

[warm marlin]

If you have turbo haste and crit u can still do it

[hollow spear]

I i know it's good, it's just resident sleeper

[lucid jackal]

Cuz u don't cycle Ur DSM as fast

[random hare]

wtf is dsm

[lucid jackal]

Deathstalker mark

[plush roost]

I optimize vv by simply proccing blindside more

[warm marlin]

My profile I get infinite dsm cycling

[random hare]

brb taking my pre key break

[lilac stag]

I optimize my mental health by not playing assa

[hollow spear]

DSM cycling

[shrewd lantern]

also like

[hollow spear]

Are you lance armstrong or what

[plush roost]

Dads going to get milk

[lilac stag]

One testicle?

[shrewd lantern]

tanks positioning mugzee for spatter

is hit or miss

[hollow spear]

I'd say miss

At least when I play

Prisons were never a sin argument in my reality

[lilac stag]

our positioning hasn’t been great

More like herding cats

[shrewd lantern]

sometimes boss is positioned to spatter both goons

sometimes one

sometimes neither

[bright elk]

Is that splatter damage even relevant? My guild has us slow dps on them so the frost boots go out before the gaols break

[tepid trellis]

it is not relevant no

for killing the boss that is

for parsing yeh it would be

[bright elk]

Fair

[lucid jackal]

The boss on early prog was very different than turbo boost prog lol

The boss used to be an execute lust dps check fight where spatter hitting goons was an additional boon

Now tbh, it's a fight about meeting the dps check to skip the jails

Which sub is just better at tbf

[warm marlin]

how the turntables

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/dj-lethal-fred-durst-sam-rivers-john-otto-wes-borland-gif-13992651

[lucid jackal]

Boss dmg on gally

I fucked up on sub CDs too

Sub is so back

[random hare]

boss dam on gally

i dont see no sub's here cuh

must be bad or something

[old venture]

@ornate ruin ?

[lilac stag]

WCL systematically helping blizzard by removing all sub rogue parses from reset.

[gritty knot]

That one lost pirate there killing spreed' the shit outta gallywix

[ornate ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/ohhp-gif-14866908656190480427

[old venture]

God ur so hot

[lucid jackal]

Yo nice crop bro

[random hare]

ty

[random hare]

im also assigned to soothe the big guys

so

thats cringe too

[old venture]

Damn

[random hare]

YES BUT