i think my brain is fried
#subtlety
worn ivy
I was just checking ever spec talent tree bro why they have cool stuff and we dont. 😦
Its so unfair locked in same build for ages.
wild vine
Most people will play whats best anyways
And that tends to be just one build for ST and one for m+
Build diversity is more of an illusion for most people imo
lilac stag
With Assa you actually have build diversity. 
wild vine
With Assa you actually have build diversity. <:dracthyr_shrug:100245415675115114...
And people still stick with the same "best build"
Except for top end m+ people and weekly 10 guys that think they are top end, which at that point is just the same as picking worse talents
obtuse nebula
When you compare Sub and Fire mage... how hard are they ? i'm asking, because i'm thinking about switching on SUB/Assa for next season, but i'm already an avg Fire Mage (not great, not terrible), but i struggle to keep attention on several things at the same time
mainly for Raids
lilac stag
Melee is almost always going to be a worse experience. Your field of view is usually shit.
Sub has multiple CDs to track and trends to be overwhelming for some. Assa has dots to track and that’s about it.
like everything. It’s practice and understanding cd timings with the encounter
obtuse nebula
So in the end, i might end up with worse performance, then i currently have sometimes
short radish
Its so unfair locked in same build for ages.
its great for raid though
can always do trash damage
keen dome
can always do trash damage
We are the Trashmasters
lilac stag
So in the end, i might end up with worse performance, then i currently have some...
Mage is tuned higher right now. Who knows what next season brings. Learning something new is almost always going to be worse/awkward at the start
keen dome
Haha, to drop the title?
It's really funny seeing so many people with it this season, 'cos I've been using it as my title since BfA
obtuse nebula
Mage is tuned higher right now. Who knows what next season brings. Learning some...
I played melees in the past (rogue last time in SL tho)... but i see what you mean, i would have to probably start training rn, to have it at least perform avg when S3 starts
lilac stag
My general advice is find a class you enjoy and learn all aspects of it.
If you dig rogue, go for it.
There’s not a lot of rogues in mythic. For many it’s not fun (no pretty visuals). Some of us just deal with the goofiness of the class because it’s what we’ve had fun on in both good times and bad.
I think most people crash out on sub after 2-3 weeks.
mighty citrus
i like sub more than the other specs. but unfortunately you need to do a lot more for the same dmg or less than for example what assa provides
started sub this tier
did okay, then assa buff and later bossfights favored assa
so what can you do in a mythic guild 😄
lilac stag
We’ve got 25 on our raid team. No one else wants to touch rogue. 
mighty citrus
xD
obtuse nebula
We got kinda same-ish situation with Mage as me (and other mage, who is backup) being only mages in raid rn 😄
lilac stag
mages are way easier to recruit
obtuse nebula
I like mage, but for example on Bandit, i couldn't even see fire Tornados running around due to me being almost half of time in combustion and visual being sameish
short radish
and one more person who wants to reroll warlock but cant for obvious reasons
short radish
theyre also really competent
opal basalt
mages are way easier to recruit
You think? We have a ton of problems recruiting ranged players in our guild. We’re very melee heavy because there’s so few ranged players.
warm marlin
not only am I the only rogue in our 25 man roster but most have 1-2 alts for splits and none have a single rogue alt
obtuse nebula
And also my perception (sorry, if it is bad one) is that i remember that meele played overall less mechanics compare to ranged DPS ?
lilac stag
I like mage, but for example on Bandit, i couldn't even see fire Tornados runnin...
Can’t see them in melee either. Especially with dev voker red circle shit. 
lilac stag
And also my perception (sorry, if it is bad one) is that i remember that meele p...
Fight dependent.
obtuse nebula
So if i get it right, Assa would be also easier to learn and is less punishing for mistakes, compare to fire (and when i get comfortable i could switch to Sub?)
lilac stag
You think? We have a ton of problems recruiting ranged players in our guild. We’...
100% idk where you guys are at, but ranged is fine to recruit when you’re CE. If you’re 4/8 melee tends to be oversaturated.
lilac stag
So if i get it right, Assa would be also easier to learn and is less punishing f...
See what you enjoy. Assa is basically target boss. Let caustic splatter cleave. Maybe snipe a rupture on an add.
opal basalt
So if i get it right, Assa would be also easier to learn and is less punishing f...
If you’re playing a pure dps class you should optimally be learning all specs over time. Being a one trick pony doesn’t help you much when tuning is abysmal.
lilac stag
Assa damage is high with adds to funnel and during execute. Normal ST type stuff right now all the rogue specs are mid.
Who knows where it ends up next tier
obtuse nebula
If you’re playing a pure dps class you should optimally be learning all specs ov...
I did that on S1... Played Arcane, then switched to fire, because it was more fun. But i wont ever touch Frost. I usually pick 1 spec and try to "master it" and if the other spec is fun, i try it
also we are just on Mythic Mug'Zee so i don't think that dmg really matters in sense of if it is S tier DPS or B tier
or like we never really had a problem due to dps or w/e
lilac stag
Because indeed we’re 4/8 rn
You’re in a recruiting dead zone. People are looking to move up. So they’re not going to lateral move or move down. You’re pulling from people that are aotc or 2/8 ish and that’s usually a lot of hunter’s and melee.
Non-mongoloid ranged isn’t easy to find, 
opal basalt
Like I know we’re in a dead zone for sure, but I would have never thought that’s the reason why recruitment for ranged players is so hard.
graceful crown
lilac stag
Melee isnt as needed. They tend to stay in their roles. There’s a surplus of rets, warriors, dare I say DK’s.
Good DHs are hard to find and no one plays rogue.
opal basalt
Like I’m trying to move up too. Both because I cba healing anymore and just cba being on prog for this long. Gotta see how that goes for me.
lilac stag
so those are the specs applying to 4/8
opal basalt
I’m playing Havoc as dps and rn trying to learn rogue, so maybe that helps my chances.
lilac stag
Our melee core has been the same for 5 tiers now with the exception being the revolving Warrior door.
hollow spear
Max raid renown is 13 before reset, correct?
void ocean
Max raid renown is 13 before reset, correct?
probably
ashen dock
!log
short radish
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
lilac stag
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
trail furnace
Oh my god I might have actual brain damage.. just found out house of cards is a use item and not equip, I’ve had it for a month and never used it once
I have brought great shame to myself
How much damage did I miss out on lol? Realistically how much damage increase does house of cards give? Compared to not using it at all, I’d be interested in seeing the stats
opal basalt
hazy breach
Like 2-3% or so
mighty citrus
is the buff already reflected in sims guys?
trail furnace
I’m a disgrace to sub rogues
hazy breach
is the buff already reflected in sims guys?
Not until its live on NA no
mighty citrus
ty
trail furnace
Assa rogue strong af but damn it’s not as fun as sub
hazy breach
Sometimes what they put in the data is not the same as what they put in the notes so raidbots aint updated until the data comes through 
Like early on in this tier when priest was gonna get a 3% nerf in the notes and then it turns out it was 4% in the data
void ocean
is sub buff up on NA?
worn ivy
They migh forgot again
Btw if you check other spec channels we are little bit behind on cooking.
haughty mural
Btw if you check other spec channels we are little bit behind on cooking.
???
keen dome
What data?
lilac stag
is sub buff up on NA?
It’s 4am blizzard time. You got a bit to wait.
void ocean
what blizzard time
lilac stag
two. cough rotten
keen dome
But that's not data?
void ocean
oh u mean atm
lilac stag
blizzard has data. They have bug reports via github
what they allocate time to is another story
void ocean
<@212854714197344256> finally broken into 18s
https://tenor.com/view/amy-santiago-gotcha-title-of-your-sextape-brooklyn-nine-nine-b99-gif-16002077
tribal blade
https://tenor.com/view/amy-santiago-gotcha-title-of-your-sextape-brooklyn-nine-n...
Pippi Longdockings
keen dome
Hell yeah, Prophet. You are blasting
tribal blade
the jump from 17 to 18 is rough
void ocean
quasi vector
Prophet you play sin right?
tribal blade
Prophet you play sin right?
right now yeah
worst part about playing sin is you have to suffer with DS
DS is an abomination
void ocean
i played assa for a fe weeks in keys and hated probably every minute
even tho the dmg is there
worn ivy
Easiest out of 3 specs
void ocean
playing sub again is gonna be a relief
worn ivy
Easiest and less fun
void ocean
its not about whether assa is hard or not (its not) its just gameplay feels weird
void ocean
i dont like going sround spreading shit asking myself "have i spread it enough"
worn ivy
Then do them again with sub
void ocean
then searching for my mt again
worn ivy
And outlaw
limpid sage
I go do 19•s as assa
Queue assa swap to sub as pull timer goes down
worn ivy
So i got invited
quasi vector
Lol @worn ivy thats exactly how I cleared my 14s last season lol. Did them as Assi and then again as sub when I had them on the resume lol
worn ivy
I played only 3-4 days assa got 150score
Its so booring to play that shit specs
Sorry no flame
quasi vector
I think assi is good too. Not as fun as sub but id rather play assi then 90% of the other classes or specs.
worn ivy
I think assi is good too. Not as fun as sub but id rather play assi then 90% of...
Also true
lilac stag
what blizzard time
Pacific Time. Severs come down in 3 hours got a 2 hour maintenance.
worn ivy
The reason i like playing sub is you need to think twice everytime u press any button
Cosistently trying to figure out what is gonna be next pull
Is he gonna chain now ? Do i need to hold dance here ? Ohh totem-cart-add spawning do i use dance ? Fuck i cannot use flag is coming in 20 oh i
Procced a trinket i can send extra dance here
This is what i think most of time during keys and its 5% of it 🙂
tepid trellis
Btw if you check other spec channels we are little bit behind on cooking.
then become a blizzard dev and actually balance our talents so we have options instead of what we currently have
worn ivy
Rework tea remove fw
keen dome
Why rework tea?
worn ivy
Its bad wdym why
tepid trellis
you could argue that it needs a touch up since its only "good" for 1/3 specs
and even for assa it isnt great
worn ivy
They should lower the energy cost of feint for sub
Most of the time you forced to use feint during dance
Its not bad timing its just the game mechanics force u to
Do it
keen dome
I feel like if you reduced Feint's cost then they'd reduce the DR it gave. But a reduction on it during Dance would be cool.
tepid trellis
we have it at home
worn ivy
😂
tribal blade
i would just completely remove tea and replace it with something cool
worn ivy
Instead of leech i start using shooting darkness btw
tepid trellis
Imo they should make regular feint free and make elusiveness feint cost energy
tribal blade
not sure which dev thought out of all the abilities they could have brought back from the past, THISTLE TEA IS ICONIC
tepid trellis
Since the first is only a conditional dr
keen dome
Imo they should make regular feint free and make elusiveness feint cost energy
That'd be a really interesting direction. That'd be cool
worn ivy
It would
Be nice if shooting darkness would
Work wit dance
tepid trellis
Sorry too op got removed
keen dome
I miss the Legion Soothing Darkness days where it would out heal the lava ticks on Argus.
vestal escarp
not sure which dev thought out of all the abilities they could have brought back...
Classic nostalgia
void ocean
Instead of leech i start using shooting darkness btw
so did u hit it... the darkness
tepid trellis
Agrammar?
tribal blade
Classic nostalgia
it wasn't even cool during classic 😦
void ocean
i would just completely remove tea and replace it with something cool
cloak of shadows for 2 additional party members
keen dome
I meant literally standing in lava outside the raid instance
Soothing Darkness would heal more than they did
tepid trellis
Oh
keen dome
And they didn't break stealth
random hare
Lashga are u cooking non tfd builds for m+ again
worn ivy
No
tribal blade
cloak of shadows for 2 additional party members
we lose damage then technically
worn ivy
Too good to be ignored
tepid trellis
Lashga are u cooking non tfd builds for m+ again
His access to the kitchen has been revoked
worn ivy
After vanish trigger
vestal escarp
it wasn't even cool during classic 😦
insane pvp talent wdym 
tribal blade
but i like the idea
tribal blade
insane pvp talent wdym <:Laughge:887654484338151454>
oh is it actually? haha i'm so out of the loop with pvp
full acorn
What is the pro for sub? Is it like arcane mage for phys comps or what’s the deal
random hare
His access to the kitchen has been revoked
Missed ur yap in zac’s chat i was joking the other day 
vestal escarp
oh is it actually? haha i'm so out of the loop with pvp
in classic mind you, im joking anyway
random hare
worn ivy
I dunno hows zac doing more than assa that dungeon
tribal blade
in classic mind you, im joking anyway <:Laughge:887654484338151454>
OH right
short radish
What is the pro for sub? Is it like arcane mage for phys comps or what’s the dea...
we can shroud really fast
worn ivy
Is priory reallt good for outlae ?0
short radish
so in cinderbrew we can move from one section to the other really quickly
random hare
I dunno hows zac doing more than assa that dungeon
He isnt
I fucked up and chose wrong talents
Sin is way better its not even close
full acorn
But dont they have really good prio or something
void ocean
we lose damage then technically
oh I know, I know: shadowy duel, but for pve, u stay 1v1 vs boss... 😄
random hare
Sin is good in every dungeon, outlaw is abit stronger in ToP in full melee comps
tepid trellis
Missed ur yap in zac’s chat i was joking the other day <:cuh:1368031415987339405...
ah i just showed up typed some nonesense when i saw the wipe then went back to work
random hare
But idk i have to check ToP again because in kultharok wing, sin is the strongest in the game
By a rly long shot
random hare
I am doing outlaw dps on 1st boss too so i have to check again later
Managed to pull off above 7m with new rotation
worn ivy
1st boss ?
random hare
Ya
worn ivy
U dont press garrote on opener no ?
random hare
Managed to pull off above 7m with new rotation
While shiving bloodhorn twice in cds
2 useless shivs
random hare
U dont press garrote on opener no ?
U press it on cd in that fight
worn ivy
1st sooth is too early to waste shiv on it
random hare
1st sooth is too early to waste shiv on it
On 20 i cba wiping to shit and it wont change speeed of the key
worn ivy
Do u save shiv for 2nd sooth or is it happening naturally
worn ivy
Dps loss
clever delta
then become a blizzard dev and actually balance our talents so we have options i...
that would not help, they would assign you to any work just not rogue, as rogue being worked on only during lunch break 2 day before release of new patch 🙂 thats known fact
random hare
2nd one is guaranteed wipe, 1st idk never tried and wont try
worn ivy
Get feral or hunt 🙂
random hare
Why is that
random hare
What buffs
random hare
Whats the best comp for assa btw
Idk
worn ivy
Should go feral war
full acorn
Is sub the best spec at anything?
random hare
U need certain classes for some keys only
haughty mural
Yes
worn ivy
Is sub the best spec at anything?
No
random hare
U need certain classes for some keys only
U cant stack up havoc dh’s ofc
That class sucks balls
Like if something’s close to good
Then thats enough
worn ivy
For assa u can play any comp
Its ok without skyfurry
For sub u need 100% skyfurry / outlae u need physical comp / assa free af
Change lust to give randomized stat
Atleast it gonna be more fair for other specs
I mean sub gain nearly nothing from lust
U can farm
Dances and thats it 🙂
random hare
Assa and sub are the same with skyfury
You just need to know how many finishers u need without it as sub
worn ivy
Is it okay to play sub in galllywix progress ?
tepid trellis
yes
worn ivy
Is it too far behind
short radish
boss randomly falls over
trail furnace
I found H Gally way way harder than H Mug and OAB
tepid trellis
btw the sub buff goes live on reset aight?
yes
short radish
btw the sub buff goes live on reset aight?
hopefully
tepid trellis
Is it too far behind
sub is arguably better than assa at the only hard part of the fight
random hare
?
tepid trellis
which is P1
short radish
nah stealthi right
you have dance+symbols for the 1st add set
assi has nothing there
and thats the only part of the fight where any damage matters
leaden prairie
All ur dps is useless on minibosses
Wdym
random hare
If ur not sin/arcane
worn ivy
Outlaw better than than p1
tepid trellis
Outlaw better than than p1
it has to die fast
the first set of adds
so not really
random hare
@leaden prairie i did priory yesterday on 19 guess what
random hare
My sanguine blades did 7%
tepid trellis
nah
round latch
also my magic ball says buffs not doen yet
random hare
With monk buff maybe 8%
tepid trellis
Assa will still do more overall on the boss
random hare
worn ivy
Nice than i play sub for gally progress already played assa for aob and mugzee
leaden prairie
With monk buff maybe 8%
Ok well that would still put you under me tho
Skill issue ?
round latch
Assa will still do more overall on the boss
yeah i mean in general,not specifically a raid fight
random hare
Not really lol
tepid trellis
yeah i mean in general,not specifically a raid fight
answer doesent change
random hare
Sin is by far the strongest spec in priory no matter the overall
tepid trellis
Assa will still do more dmg, until bosses gets waaaay to short
worn ivy
Why do u snd bug during keys ? @leaden prairie you got caught
round latch
Assa will still do more dmg, until bosses gets waaaay to short
im gonna flex at you again on the next sub buff again but ig u know better,i dont raid
random hare
Assa will still do more dmg, until bosses gets waaaay to short
Sin is good in short boss fights in m+ tbh idk if u mean that
tepid trellis
i do not care about m+ in the slightest unfortunately
tepid trellis
if it aint about raid i sleepge
round latch
worn ivy
Its tos 🙂
random hare
Tos my balls
leaden prairie
You got boosted in s1 you absolute clown
worn ivy
Ahahahhaha
leaden prairie
Bro said it's TOS to press buttons
short radish
random hare
Thats one hell of a diabolical reply
random hare
If i were you i wouldnt only leave the discord
worn ivy
What he does 🙂
random hare
I’d change planets too
tepid trellis
Thats one hell of a diabolical reply
i almost spat out my coffee
random hare
leaden prairie
Bro mad I'm using a silly bug that does litteraly nothing
You know how many times I have abused bugs that do nothing
That's litteraly wow
random hare
It was op in the old iteration tho
leaden prairie
Maybe
random hare
Rly rly op
leaden prairie
If you say so
trail furnace
What bug y’all talking bout
tepid trellis
tbh like as long as the bug being abused doesent negatively affect other people its fcking w/e
random hare
Not 200k dps op but it was op
worn ivy
I was just joking
leaden prairie
I wasn't
random hare
I think it was enough to make us stronger than all classes in DF @leaden prairie
Mage+priest
leaden prairie
I think it was enough to make us stronger than all classes in DF <@3529162972623...
But when they fixed it
Nothing changed
So wdym
random hare
Alot changed
leaden prairie
What did
worn ivy
I was telling to friend yesterday hoe zac play outlae on diff level
random hare
Saying it didnt is delusional
leaden prairie
My damage litteraly didn't move in overall
worn ivy
And look what he says 🙂
random hare
Ye u learned how to dps the keys better and the pulls became more effecient
leaden prairie
I was telling to friend yesterday hoe zac play outlae on diff level
Ye it's only bug abuse
random hare
Ur dps is supposed to increase over the season
leaden prairie
I'm trash at the game
random hare
Not stay the same
lilac stag
unless you’re sub rogue. Dps goes down over the season.
random hare
Sub is unbelievably trash in m+
Not even a 10% buff will save that shit from drowning
worn ivy
I wish there was a way to use last season tier set with this ilevel
It was way better
Imo
random hare
It sims exactly what it does in the meters
Old tier set felt like absolute dogshit last time i tried it in ptr
Your only talking based on feeling as usual lashga
Even when it literally feels like less dps too
tepid trellis
iirc numerically there is like a 2% diff between the old and new if at same ilvl
random hare
I look at the meters all the time, even post tier nerfs it was better
leaden prairie
I mean current tier set for sub is horrible
Feels like shit
Losing all your stacks before a window
random hare
Doesnt make it worse
random hare
Losing all your stacks before a window
Skill issue
leaden prairie
Is cringe af
worn ivy
Yea even with not losing
leaden prairie
Ye skill issue you either afk doing 0 dps
worn ivy
Its not that big
leaden prairie
Or you risk losing stacks
tepid trellis
just dont get unlucky and have both of your sectechs bug out
leaden prairie
Its legit the most cringe tier set ever
random hare
Ye skill issue you either afk doing 0 dps
?
round latch
iirc numerically there is like a 2% diff between the old and new if at same ilvl
like put both on 684 on sims? 
im curious
can i sim it now
random hare
Its sub’s playstyle it isnt outlaw
worn ivy
like put both on 684 on sims? <:sus:787773784085757972>
Ye sim and share now u have the bis sub gear
round latch
Ye sim and share now u have the bis sub gear
my rogue is fairly bad,veyr low ilvl,been playign mage or hpally
random hare
No one is doing that
round latch
doing arenas for the most part
worn ivy
Stealthi has the bis gear
worn ivy
For sub he can sim it
leaden prairie
I did
random hare
I bet u wont do that dps only with brewmaster sucking ur dps off
leaden prairie
Wdym
round latch
For sub he can sim it
yup he could,bigboi gear
tepid trellis
this was the sims for it early season so about 5%
worn ivy
this was the sims for it early season so about 5%
After nerf ?
random hare
You donkey !
No u
lilac stag
Why do I need to beat it I litteraly beat that 5 weeks ago
5 weeks ago he wasn’t on outlaw bus
random hare
They both have different dmg profile
worn ivy
So we can say outlaw is more pad ?
lilac stag
yeah Outlaws is better
random hare
Can't wait to gap you again in every single key
Ye unless u dont get invited cuh
tepid trellis
They both have different dmg profile
sorry i dont see dmg profiles only overalls
random hare
So we can say outlaw is more pad ?
Yea
lilac stag
you’re just trapped in KS hell
random hare
Well
leaden prairie
Ye unless u dont get invited cuh
???
random hare
Certain keys outlaw is troll
round latch
after the nerfs to the tierset
so this tier set is actually designed to highroll sht to be better than the previous or what
random hare
Like worskhop
leaden prairie
I mean it's good In workshop
random hare
Like worskhop
Everytime i open zac stream hes dead there
tepid trellis
so this tier set is actually designed to highroll sht to be better than the prev...
well it was, now its not really that rng
random hare
Dying doesnt help with key time zac
leaden prairie
To play workshop is
worn ivy
He was trying to cook wa where u mark your ks starting point. Didnt go well
leaden prairie
That's all
tepid trellis
our variance basically didn't change from last season
random hare
Well
We had an almost r1 run in ToP yesterday zac
With udk
We lost r1 only from death timers
leaden prairie
Unlucky
random hare
Rly bad deaths we had
tepid trellis
i need to watch more zac keys in Rookery
watching him slowly get more and more mad
is a joy
worn ivy
Swap sub after 2nd boss
worn ivy
Melee arcane mage
jovial cipher
Melee arcane mage
From wallmart
random hare
I’ll still have to play it tho fuck that spec
worn ivy
20
Rookery is the hardest i think
leaden prairie
tepid trellis
sub is teemu arcane
worn ivy
Nah sub is like tesco or asda
random hare
Sub is better in last boss but it isnt good enough cuz it doesnt do enough dmg to 3 phase
full acorn
So the 5% buff does nothing basicly
random hare
Maybe not
worn ivy
Sub is quality
tepid trellis
So the 5% buff does nothing basicly
in raid it will help a bit
m+ it wont really change much
random hare
In raid it’ll be nice im sure
full acorn
I just looked at logs for Dungs and raid and I dont see a single sub this is sad
tribal blade
sub is less of a tuning issue, more of a how the spec works in aoe issue
leaden prairie
Sub is better in last boss but it isnt good enough cuz it doesnt do enough dmg t...
I think you have to think about 21 anyway right
hazy breach
The 5% is really nice, people are just jaded as hell
leaden prairie
With the big head and belt
hazy breach
If youre not doing 20s it doesnt matter
leaden prairie
And there is no way any spec ever 3 phase that boss in 21
worn ivy
BOIS THERE IS A REASON YOUR STEALTH icon is similar to best spec icon change my mind
tepid trellis
tune it high enough and it suddenly isnt an issue
tribal blade
true lol
random hare
And there is no way any spec ever 3 phase that boss in 21
Well
random hare
Double sub is more than enough to 3 phase
random hare
But i wont argue with you again about it i’ll just try to time it with our vdh instead
leaden prairie
And if both rogue go out you lose a lot of time
tepid trellis
was about to say what classes come close to sub in burst, Arcane, MM and Stormsurge enhance?
random hare
Warrior+monk
leaden prairie
Hmmm
hazy breach
was about to say what classes come close to sub in burst, Arcane, MM and Stormsu...
On a boss like last boss rookery when we can pool everything nothing really. Enhance is close during BL
MM might be too to during bl
tepid trellis
live ive done some ethically shit on my shaman
tepid trellis
unethical*
hazy breach
But outside of BL its not close
leaden prairie
I wanna swap for last pack tho
Not after second boss like you do
I think that's cooked idk
random hare
U have to swap last pack as outlaw
trail furnace
Question, my buddy says Priory Signet is good when a majority of players have it, does that means it’s likely better in raids than Pacemaker due to more players being likely to have it? Or is Pacemaker better than it almost always
tepid trellis
prime two tempest then get like 6 off in ascedance
random hare
Also zac
jovial cipher
On enh u just spam chain lightning till burst phase and send those 3 billions tempest with ascendance
leaden prairie
Ye you do the other pack last ?
random hare
Grp kills 1 guy alone
leaden prairie
Hmhm
hazy breach
Question, my buddy says Priory Signet is good when a majority of players have it...
The friend effect on priory is effectively nonexistant
worn ivy
1st shield you
Commit dance + cb / 1st phase all cds / 2nd shield 1 dance will be enough no cb / 2 phase all cds : 3rd shield 2x dance / last phase every dc u have.
random hare
Idk how good ur at sub but
trail furnace
The friend effect on priory is effectively nonexistant
So my buddy is capping hard asf
leaden prairie
What do you do with CDs on pull tho ross
hazy breach
I mean its like +200 stats
random hare
U have to pool alot if ur x1 sub
hazy breach
For 20s
random hare
But
hazy breach
Its nothing
random hare
If ur x2 sub
leaden prairie
Idk how good ur at sub but
I got r1s in raid when I played it
random hare
U have to do different things
leaden prairie
It's an easy spec anyway
random hare
Ok let me explain
hazy breach
Sub should absolutely not be playing signet in any situation
random hare
If ur solo sub
hazy breach
Its terrible
random hare
U send coldblood on opener
And 1x more dance and thats it
But if ur x2 sub u can always send dances and u just need 1.5 dance for ur cd window in amp
trail furnace
Its terrible
Thanks just making sure
random hare
So u can send aggressive dances with x2 sub
trail furnace
My buddy made it sound incredibly Op if like 5 players have it in the raid
random hare
U have more than enough amp dmg that way anyway
leaden prairie
Hm
random hare
Btw
tribal blade
My buddy made it sound incredibly Op if like 5 players have it in the raid
doesn't matter if you can only use the trinket every other cd set
worn ivy
You will never have 3x dance that fiight if sonyour doing something wrong
random hare
I want full 2.0 dance charges +14 stacks of shadowtechniques on all amps + 8 stacks of tiersets and it didnt kill the boss zac
2% wipe
On +20
patent crystal
crit more
random hare
With 4 superchargers too
leaden prairie
I mean you probably need a bit of help from others as well
random hare
No we pulled the boss 8 times what rng do u want me to pull out of ur ass or what
tepid trellis
he is him
worn ivy
You can actually play more trash on last boss theoricly but no one tried it
leaden prairie
No we pulled the boss 8 times what rng do u want me to pull out of ur ass or wha...
Get better noobos
worn ivy
You need to play 1 big guy extrs
leaden prairie
You can actually play more trash on last boss theoricly but no one tried it
Can't really, the big dudes hurts too much
random hare
You can actually play more trash on last boss theoricly but no one tried it
No one in ur grp tried it
Everyone tried it
If u mean high key pushers that is
worn ivy
I dont have group i just log im que up My own key coz never get invites .)
Assa st is really fun when u get lot of procs
Assa st in m+ is sleeper
void ocean
assa m+ in st gkick
worn ivy
Assa has highest st ?
leaden prairie
It's quite decent now
People just play cooked builds
You play good builds and assa st is normal like other specs
random hare
Except
leaden prairie
You play trash on boss and then assa funnel
random hare
It does way higher in certain dungeons
leaden prairie
It's silly to say assa st is bad
leaden prairie
Ye
leaden prairie
Funnel You mean
random hare
Yea
leaden prairie
Cause it's not as good for st than funnel aoe
random hare
People just play cooked builds
Crazy that ppl said im cooked and that i’ll end up playing bleed build
Then everyone of these ppl copied me
void ocean
i tho u named urself after zeross build
random hare
Wdym ofc not
Its just what ppl call it because they weren’t sure it was good or not
Eitherway
It sims same as bleed build
Way better in certain areas too
So i dont rly have anything to prove now
random hare
Extra energy thinggy
worn ivy
I dont know the names on assa tree
random hare
Yes extra energy thinggy
worn ivy
Dashing Scoundrel ?
random hare
Dashing Scoundrel ?
Yea
@leaden prairie btw
I changed my playstyle alot on sin yesterday
Felt way better
I think im doing way more dps on certain fights now
Crazy ngl
Maybe i can do 8m dps on 1st boss ToP with monk buff
And no wasting shiv
worn ivy
@random hare https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-tww-2/17314358-19-darkflame-cleft am i playing right build ? I copy from your talents. Dont look gear its wrong gear
Maybe this build is not good for low keys
Has to be better for 20+
21’s should be better
bright elk
Wheres all the sub talk 
brisk onyx
keen dome
It's a little subtle today.
granite river
Felt way better
Explanation when
lilac stag
Wheres all the sub talk <:peepomad:585733840954458124>
They get muted in the other channels
brittle plinth
Is there a list of the damage amps in dungeons? Or a wa pack that calls them out
plush roost
I changed my playstyle alot on sin yesterday
You best give me a university dissertation on this so i can compare notes grrr 
plush roost
Is there a list of the damage amps in dungeons? Or a wa pack that calls them out
Rookery last boss, floodgate big mama, the stuns on workshop first boss, stopping the defend casts on footmen in priory
Thats about it afaik or can think of
worn ivy
ML first boss
haughty mural
ML second boss
plush roost
Oh ya here i am forgetting the number 1 sub rogue pad bosses
45 second interval damage amps 8)
void ocean
ML second boss
what amp is on the 2nd boss
void ocean
oooh
never paid attention to that one but i know its awesome for both, my dk and rogue
haughty mural
The big add ye
lilac stag
Some off the plater profiles will put a box over the amp add
hollow spear
If the key is low enough, cleaving off the boss is actually a dps gain
Not sure by when you have to hard swap
Mostly just doing farm keys
short radish
If the key is low enough, cleaving off the boss is actually a dps gain
wait how
dont you do more damage to the mob
then you cleave onto the boss for more
latent finch
then you cleave onto the boss for more
Not sure if you meant that you do more dmg to the boss from cleaving from a dmg amped mob. Because that doesnt work. You still cleave the same amount then if the mob has normal dmg taken. If you cleave ON to a target which has such a modifier that works. But its for each instance seperate. No other mob witch doesnt has it will get higher dmg
short radish
oh
right
but then still
if youre doing 100% damage to teh boss and then 35% or w/e cleave is to the add
amped 200% so 100+105% damage
but if you do on the add
its 300% to teh add and then 35% to the boss
surely thats more overall damage right?
am i mathing wrong?
latent finch
Should be more overall dmg but less boss dmg. So depense what you need. Do your group needs more dmg on a add or on the boss
short radish
i like seeing me do more overall 🙂
it gives me a sense of pride and accomplishment
tepid trellis
its 300% to teh add and then 35% to the boss
doesent work like that
its a debuff on the target so you only flurry for the normal amount
as if the mob had no dmg amp
tepid trellis
or am i misunderstanding you?
short radish
💯
hollow spear
Oh really? If you cleave off the boss, the flurry doesn't get amped?
tepid trellis
other way around
limpid sage
I think it's the other way around
ye
didn't even know the mob had amped dmg taken though
need to time my cb sectecs for omega pad
full acorn
Why do people say myth signet and hoc are the same when myth hoc is Way better?
latent finch
Probably other spec?
swift tinsel
who's saying they're the same?
cobalt vector
Why do people say myth signet and hoc are the same when myth hoc is Way better?
for sin they are p similar. For sub its a big difference.
swift tinsel
1.5min trinket for a 1.5min burst spec > 2min trinket for a 1.5min burst spec
full acorn
Might have read assa player takling in here then
fleet wharf
other way around
Wait so you want to target the amped add and that damage gets amped to the boss through flurry?
short radish
Wait so you want to target the amped add and that damage gets amped to the boss ...
no
amped damage doesnt get replicated
but if you want bigger overall numbers
you want to target the amped add
bleak night
we love big numbers
short radish
CANT WAIT FOR RAID TODAY
full acorn
Hows the prio damage compared to arcane like is it possible to remplace them?
fleet wharf
Are we going to be optimal for raiding or just good enough to not feel bad playing in raid?
short radish
hopefully the latter
fleet wharf
I mean that sounds good enough to me tbh, but why not the former?
is it because we'd be slated for nerfs later?
short radish
because we're not going to be optimal for raiding
and hopefully the buff is strong enough that we're not going to feel bad
but also
who cares
play whats fun
this tier is a meme
swift tinsel
buffs bridge the gap, but gap still exists
lilac stag
Why do people say myth signet and hoc are the same when myth hoc is Way better?
You’re in the wrong channel boo
No one in here gonna say signet better than HoC
full acorn
It was a assa player in the sub channel i Got confused
bleak night
worn ivy
buffs live already or ?
short radish
are the servers live?
short radish
dunno i just found this out 2 hours ago
bleak night
to prevent a bunch of jank with flurry effects
lucid jackal
Because when bosses have adds that take bonus damage, they would literally get 1 shot
bright elk
Rextroy would have a field day with that lol
lucid jackal
I mean imagine mugzee, those lightning side adds take bonus damage
They are takine 100%? Bonus damage
if you could just target them
its basically giving the boss a 100% damage amp ONLY to specs that have access to a blade flurry effect
It'd just be stupid and beyond difficult to balance
short radish
WAIT
the lightning adds take bonus damage?
fuck
ive been targetting the wrong thing the entire time
no wonder warlocks are so bonkers
wet lava
Wait so in moyherlode on the rock boss whe u are hitting the add that takes a lot of dmg, ur blade flurry isn't amped and pwninig the boss w cleave
That's so lame
tepid trellis
I mean imagine mugzee, those lightning side adds take bonus damage
sometimes i think most people in this game dont actually understand the fights they are doing
short radish
no one ever told me there was a damage amp on them!
tepid trellis
read the dungeon journal
short radish
tepid trellis
bright elk
I don’t understand anything dratanos himself hasn’t explained to me
short radish
i dont play this game to read
strange chasm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
swift tinsel
lol linking dungeon journal abilities is my go-to when people don't understand shit when progging
"that wasn't in the Ready Check Pull video..."
tepid trellis
guess people never wondered why destro locks did so good dmg on this fight xD
swift tinsel
there's usually cheese involved unless they just have the best damage profile for a fight
serene notch
Is today the day sub becomes best rouge again :3
tepid trellis
still shit
swift tinsel
just 4.6% less smelly shit
strange chasm
If sub is still worse than sin but by a lot less of a margin thats fine for me now
esp for reclear
tepid trellis
just 4.6% less smelly shit
4.6% buff to 0 dmg is still 0
serene notch
Highest FPM(fun’s per min) spec in game
tepid trellis
quick maff
serene notch
I can’t wait to do slightly below avg damage in keys.
serene notch
Work T-T
lucid jackal
sometimes i think most people in this game dont actually understand the fights t...
WAIT YOU CAN VELF OUT OF MUGZEE CAGES!?
fleet wharf
wait ppl def talked about that during rwf
tepid trellis
WAIT YOU CAN VELF OUT OF MUGZEE CAGES!?
WAIT YOU CAN STEP OUT AS WELL?
lucid jackal
tepid trellis
fleet wharf
is everything in dungeon journal or where would I go to learn about these interactions
swift tinsel
I mean it won't tell you "you can shadowstep out of these"
but guides often have sections
swift tinsel
but stuff like damage amps, etc will usually be in the journal
fleet wharf
but guides often have sections
like mythic trap? where else would you recommend checking for boss mechanics in more detail?
swift tinsel
yeah they've got okay info there
keen dome
Mythic trap is good, reading the journal is good, asking questions / watching kills is good, too. Just a whole spectrum of stuff you can do to see how people do stuff.
Some of the class guides also have very useful information too
fallow nimbus
Go in blind, learning by doing 
sterile kiln
the 0.4% was the friends we made along the way
lucid jackal
Is it 4.6% or 5%
(I’m late to the conversation)
4.6%
x% aura buff is always less than the %
young path
I feel bamboozled
fiery pewter
I want my damn 0.4
That's for the next balance update
lilac stag
the 0.4% was the friends we made along the way
Yeah well it’s not buffing your enchants and embellishments.
dapper jasper
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
limpid sage
I don’t see an option to add Bubbling Wax to your weapons in sims, does anyone know what the difference is between using it and not?
Dpswise
lilac stag
You can use the enchants and consumables listed in #tc-research
Just use whetstones. Wax is for the poor. 
we're so back boys
tepid trellis
almost lost to the target capped bozo
lilac stag
lfr vexie
tepid trellis
its joever
vernal hull
we're so back boys
Where was the warlock
grave shore
*lfr vexie*
Lfr vexie 😂
stiff remnant
which corruption are yall running with for raid? is echoing void still bugged?
haughty mural
What’s dead can never die
limpid sage
You can use the enchants and consumables listed in <#266712108861751296>
Oh ty!
inner pollen
Does the rogue spreadsheet have the sub changes in it for tomorrow?
lilac stag
Take your sim. Multiply by 4.6%
merry agate
WE'RE BACK?
haughty mural
Always
swift tinsel
merry agate
OH BOI
cant wait to stand there dick in hand after 2 trash groups with no SD charges and boss next pull!
A little melodramatic i know
keen dome
You never need to be back if you refused to leave in the first place
lilac stag
keen dome
Just a teeny tiny Kezan
lethal thorn
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
keen dome
Hell yeah
spice matrix
echoing void still seems poop, guess they haven't fixed it?
or we just gushing gang now
raw flicker
I'm finding the people on the channel very discouraged and pessimistic about the buff. I got here all excited wanting to increase my motivation to change from assassination (boring bleed) to sub, change my transmog from a poison theme to shadow but I confess that I got discouraged!
lilac stag
Play whatever. Play it well.
Rogue is kinda mid in raid. This buff ain’t changing that.
?
lilac stag
puts us back at the start of the season. Everyone else still got buffs.
lilac stag
<a:bombcheer:1256108897106923611> ?
haughty mural
swift tinsel
I'm finding the people on the channel very discouraged and pessimistic about the...
because a lot of us have seen our position on meters drop week after week relative to others so 5% this late in the season feels kinda meh
It's nice, sure
but a bandaid on a bandaid
lilac stag
Lulz. Visions broken. Fucking blizzard quality control.
keen dome
The best thing you can do is just do your best. And have fun. If you wanna play Sub, play sub.
swift tinsel
9th Mask
lucid jackal
What's broken about visions?
haughty mural
how did they break em ?
swift tinsel
blizz coding
lilac stag
can’t interact with them to enter at all
lucid jackal
I can?
lilac stag
Did one and got sent out
lucid jackal
I finished my whole quest already
lilac stag
Sweet. You got it done before server shit itself.
keen dome
I'm just gonna slam VR on and call it a day.
real panther
bro.. that head enchant making 0.5% of the overall is killing me...
vale pine
Is it 4.6% or 5%
(I’m late to the conversation)
its somewhere around 4% iirc if you include corruption
not all damage is amped by the aura
so trinkets, enchants and other item effects will not be impacted
keen dome
Excited to be 4.6% better tomorrow.
vale pine
is the buff on raidbots already?
lucid jackal
Is there anything secretly bad about the thug hotline or am I just blowing a dinar on it for sub this week
tepid trellis
Excited to be 4.6% better tomorrow.
personally im excited to only be 25.4% behind evokers
hazy breach
And if you dont get the BL proc its not a good trinket
vale pine
haha
keen dome
personally im excited to only be 25.4% behind evokers
Hell yeah, progress
We just need a few more Sub rogues to every Dragon. Easy.
nocturne scroll
If your ranged uses BL before you have hit the boss
I was happy not knowing that was a thing ty -.-
nocturne scroll
True
serene notch
I hope sub stays middling at best, got a real shot to be top 100 this season cause there’s only like 200 😂
fiery pewter
If your ranged uses BL before you have hit the boss
I never thought this was much of an issue. Usually hero isn't cast until a few seconds after the pull for my group lol
fiery pewter
Not if you beat them to it
hazy breach
I checked like 10 logs of bosses with BL on pull
fiery pewter
Early evasion
vale pine
hmm, seems like the buffs are not on raidbots yet
hazy breach
and only 2 got the BL proc
swift tinsel
pulls were a crapshoot for us bc tanks would pull anywhere from 3-0.1 sec left on pull timer
vale pine
dusk stone
I'm finding the people on the channel very discouraged and pessimistic about the...
because some of us have mained sub since start of the patch and feel really let down by the intentional neglect of our spec. like its really bad
lucid jackal
I'm finding the people on the channel very discouraged and pessimistic about the...
People in here suck
serene notch
I mean nothing materially changes as far as gear/talents with just a flat % buff right?
vale pine
I'm finding the people on the channel very discouraged and pessimistic about the...
a buff is a buff, so don't just enjoy subtlety :))
shrewd lantern
I mean realistically
why are boomkins pulling ahead of the timer
on the regular
swift tinsel
bc their brains are made of chicken nuggets
bleak night
because you cast wrath twice prepull
nocturne scroll
why are boomkins pulling ahead of the timer
Brain gap
bleak night
and multiplying a cast time x2 is hard
tepid trellis
as long as we are tuned below avg, ill keep calling the spec shit
serene notch
I always felt it’s all kinda tongue in cheek, if you stuck with sub at this point you just enjoy the gameplay loop
fiery pewter
They are forced to be ugly giant chickens
shrewd lantern
can we go back to a boss like fyrak
fiery pewter
shrewd lantern
where boss just oneshot early puller
hazy breach
Gally does too
shrewd lantern
isnt that because gally has a massive hitbox
swift tinsel
its fucking huge
shrewd lantern
fyrak is an og mf just leaps at you
swift tinsel
so I could see it
shrewd lantern
to give you business
dusk stone
did they ever fix with weirdness with gallywix and shadowstep
tepid trellis
isnt that because gally has a massive hitbox
he targets who ever pulls and shoots em