buit this tier was still kinda a sub tier
#subtlety
hollow spear
Early
leaden prairie
S3 was admi ?
vale pine
because first 2 weeks it was not rly nerfed
leaden prairie
No I meant just prog
leaden prairie
Like progging bosses
vale pine
how fast someone progresses is very dependent on the raid enviroment
like wrf
will have assassiantion tier then
while you have it as a sub tier
leaden prairie
I have kinda progged every tier since the start as sub (or outlaw when I didn't care about it, but with sub being the spec)
thin sinew
I'd say it's still a sub tier with how some of these fights are the numbers are just off
leaden prairie
But maybe I kinda lucked out in navigating prog timers
thin sinew
so the sheep flock to what the charts and those dumb tier lists say
vale pine
like initially
the only fight sub was played was smolderon
because of the perfect timers
thin sinew
oh but those were so good timers
vale pine
but as mentioned the nerfs made sin fall out of favor
leaden prairie
idk im just comparing to outlaw lol, and im still waiting for an outlaw tier
vale pine
this tier was a outlaw tier
leaden prairie
while every tier is a sub tier or a tier where ytou play either sin or sub by choice
vale pine
as stupid as it sounds
leaden prairie
It's definitely not an outlaw tier
limpid sage
you can't get the greater enchant yet right
leaden prairie
I wish
limpid sage
aight so there's nothing else to do past getting a mask, 3 talents in the horrific visions thingy and the lesser rune?
leaden prairie
Like I do good damage rn on gally
vale pine
unlocks are time gated sadly
leaden prairie
But playing outlaw on gally prog is just trolling
vale pine
like 2 fights ended up diffrent
sub was better on barrels
and execute made sin best on the actual end boss of the tier
limpid sage
T-T
vale pine
the first one
leaden prairie
Ye mug was a sin fight I cannot argue with that one
vale pine
does not matter now and did not matter quickly for everyone
leaden prairie
So I guess we could call it a sin tier for that
vale pine
so the only fight outlaw is bad now is mug?
leaden prairie
I mean
As I said
If you progged any of the end bosses as outlaw
You were trolling hard imo
Killing spree is just not something you should ever be pressing in prog
vale pine
idk gally on outlaw seems completely fine
leaden prairie
You are wasting pulls
leaden prairie
Ye if you like trolling your raid
vale pine
KS needs a rework
plush roost
Just make it blade dance already smh
leaden prairie
I do good on gally rn on reclears
But I'm playing like a psychopath
You would never do that on prog
vale pine
fair
leaden prairie
And you would lose prog pulls on outlaw just being outlaw
Like no questions asked
vale pine
i mean
leaden prairie
There is no way killing spree is a real thing you just press on prog on these bosses rn
vale pine
most sub players don't play sub anymore in raid at all
leaden prairie
Like on bandit it's similar
vale pine
so if you compare it
leaden prairie
Ye but that's relcear
vale pine
thats actually worse
leaden prairie
And like honestly
That's your own fault
I have played outlaw in every reclears
No one cares about reclears damage
You just play for fun
vale pine
i think you miss the point ^^
leaden prairie
Do I
vale pine
i am not playing something else
plush roost
I miss the point as well
leaden prairie
I find it hard to sympathize with sub being "bad" on reclears you know
Like it's just farm
I sympathize with sub being bad in m+
Or prog
Except it was good on prog
plush roost
I mean people progging still probably swapped off sub by now. Assa is just miles ahead
vale pine
the progress for many is not over in a month ^^
leaden prairie
Ye sure true
vale pine
but well
lets just drop the discussion
we def. have diffrent time frames which are important to us
there is no rason to fight if outlaw or sub is worse off if both are barely played at all
leaden prairie
I mean sub should have gotten buffed months ago don't get me wrong
vale pine
thats contradicting with what you mentioned a few lines above, but thanks
leaden prairie
idk about months
i said months
i meant it should have been buffed along with the other specs
vale pine
no i mean, you did say you have no sympathy for sub rogues in raids because it was played first 2 weeks
short radish
why does only prog matter for spec balance?
leaden prairie
No I just meant I don't have much sympathy for tuning in farm
short radish
why does only RWF prog* matter
leaden prairie
why does only prog matter for spec balance?
Because farm tuning doesn't matter
vale pine
why does only prog matter for spec balance?
it does not, but everyone progresses at diffrent paces
like anecdotally
leaden prairie
But then when you are in guilds that are progging rn still
vale pine
people can clear the raid on 660 or 670 just fine
leaden prairie
You probably are playing random specs anywya
vale pine
but any mythic raid will flame you if you are not 680 or bench you now
power perception and balance is very important in wow
leaden prairie
but any mythic raid will flame you if you are not 680 or bench you now
wel we are 684 now tbf
short radish
Idk how long prog last for people
it lasts until the tier is over
thin sinew
Idk how long prog last for people
for the majority the whole patch
sick jackal
for the majority the whole patch
from what i can see the raid was really easy some non CE guilds got CE already
thin sinew
that doesn't mean prog is over
haughty mural
But then when you are in guilds that are progging rn still
Poor souls getting the elitist trashing
keen dome
Idk how long prog last for people
That'd be a cool thing to find out to see the spectrum of what it means to different people. I know Heroic groups who won't clear until the end of the season so it's reeeeeeal broad and weird
thin sinew
BASED
leaden prairie
Ok but then my point still kinda stand
keen dome
RFWL is the best content in wow
Truth
haughty mural
Based
short radish
Ok but then my point still kinda stand
what is your point
i acutally lost what it was
keen dome
I still think the idea we discussed in here a while back is the pinnacle of raid content
Race to first AotC but entirely done in pugging.
thin sinew
just got to look here to see that people are clearly still progressing
leaden prairie
what is your point
Tuning matter less for people that are progging late, similar to farm, or doing weeklies
keen dome
Yeah, probably.
leaden prairie
Because you have more gear, more damage, every boss got nerfed 15 times
short radish
yeah but theyre still progging for a reason
leaden prairie
Ye
But you know it matter less lol
Idk why you are trying to imply it doesn't
You know it yourself
keen dome
You could also include that it results in less volatility in classes, etc. Like, you know what X is gonna do for a few months whereas early on stuff can change really quickly
leaden prairie
That's kinda delusional to say it matters just as much as early prog
keen dome
Later in the season stuff isn't going to change as much
leaden prairie
Similarly, tuning doesn't or barely matter for doing weeklies
Yet some people still are progging weeklies
keen dome
Ye
I mean I think a better way to look at it might be that most people don't care or notice the tuning in the content they're doing.
leaden prairie
still im not saying you shouldnt continue tunning tho !
sub should have been buffed
keen dome
If only
short radish
But you know it matter less lol
it matters less but it still matters
short radish
RFWL guilds arent all grey parsing andies
the majority are sure
but pumpers also exist there
keen dome
Sure but that doesn't mean their players are aware of or care about tunning to the extent we, the class discord guys, might
haughty mural
That’s me 
vale pine
i think the point i made earlier got lost
thats why i did say you can kill the boss on 670
but your raid will want you to be 680
simialrly, people will look at your relative output
if you play sub and are similarly geared to a assassinaiton player
they will bench you or assume you are a bad player
if you are geared slightly worse
you will be almost exiled
vale pine
this is how the community works, you can play what you want but others will judge you based on it
and everyone has a certain tolerance
which is in modern wow fairly low
keen dome
Yeah, community perception and attitudes will often override actual understanding and facts
void ocean
"just play smth else", just had that one thrown at my face a few mins ago
"u have 3 dps specs"
haughty mural
Lmao
keen dome
It's why I think it's important to keep perspective in WoW and understand how few people engage in higher end content, etc. It makes some of the design make a lot more sense.
haughty mural
Classic
keen dome
"just play smth else", just had that one thrown at my face a few mins ago
swap to outlaw and go "okay I'm playing something else"
void ocean
might as well play different game
keen dome
And see if they go "no not that one"
haughty mural
Your case is a strong argument that tuning still somewhat matters
short radish
fuck blizzard
holy shit
how do you release shit this fucked
wait
nvm
i got baited
by guild
vale pine
thats old news
vale pine
very old
void ocean
how long was i sleeping
short radish
so ar least some months
About 5 years
short radish
huh, did my Details just swap to show the burst % done on Vexie during the amp..
Yes
It does that now
Dunno who asked for it but it does that now
void ocean
swap to assa, easy top 😄
void ocean
gotta prepare for covid
void ocean
got more booster shots than sub buffs
haughty mural
?
alpine wraith
oh ye 2020
the great boe reckoning
where billions of gold went poof
by 1 patch note
half remnant
remember about zoom
alpine wraith
well after big gains you diversify
always
so wont affect the good investors
but like the sub bubble of pre patch anything can happen
we though we had reclaimed our burst
in a parallel universe we are blasting
keen dome
Yeah..
median nacelle
vale pine
i will do them later, not sure
merry agate
https://www.wowhead.com/news/corruption-tuning-for-february-5th-echoing-void-wil...
Bring back my boi appendage 
lilac stag
But you know it matter less lol
It doesn’t matter less, the content may be nerfed but we’re trying to get people mounts eventually and it is a race against the end of season which we don’t know when it is.
No point in putting up additional speed bumps by putting in a spec doing 250k less dps when they’re playing it over a better performing spec.
If I had any legitimate reason to run sub on what we are progging I would because fucking hell assa has me reaching for bottles of no-doze.
haughty mural
You guys wanna hear smth stupid ?
lilac stag
hit me
haughty mural
Forgot to turn in dinar quest on my rogue
Just realized as I wanted to accept the new one
haughty mural
Now my alts have more dinars then my rogue
lilac stag
we’re back in fucking shadowlands
haughty mural
lilac stag
which unironically was last time I canceled
haughty mural
What a bummer
keen dome
The fact it doesn't have catch-up and is like this is just.. lmao
Why do they keep doing this. It's ludicrous
haughty mural
My own fault I guess
keen dome
No way
lilac stag
they’re idiots
keen dome
It shouldn't be designed like this
haughty mural
Turned it in on my alts
lilac stag
Their systems are fucked
keen dome
It wasn't in DF S4 for instance, you had catchup
lilac stag
The time gating is fucked
haughty mural
Monk week I guess
lilac stag
Thier attention to what the players use the most (classes and specs) is negligent at best.
ooooh look at player housing. Wow saved.
fuck off
keen dome
PLayer housing does look really cool though
lilac stag
PLayer housing does look really cool though
- WoW turned into virtual housing simulator. No longer a MMO.
lilac stag
Nope
lilac stag
pets need to be good indoors
haughty mural
lilac stag
no fighting
keen dome
you can take my bad pokemon game from my cold dead hands
lilac stag
add it to the list of other dead things you enjoy in wow
keen dome
Hahaha
I saw a group wipe on Vexie this morning
Heroic Vexie, that is
That was fun
haughty mural
keen dome
Nobody did bikes. Hero on pull. Most people doing sub 1.5m DPS
lilac stag
nice
keen dome
Also a Lockensprocket where 98% of the riad was dead for the last 10% (and like 5 people died on pull????)
I love pugs
digital zodiac
guys quick question, do you always backstab for the 1st spell on every dance or only on the opener with cds
lilac stag
Should be every dance unless sitting on full CPS going into dance.
digital zodiac
thank u sir
haughty mural
Now that I won’t get dinars this I’ll just full send sub idc
My keys are resilient anyway
void ocean
sub cant hurt u anymore 😄
haughty mural
I’ll be a passenger in my own keys
wide kernel
echoing void is best dps enchantment?
i heard here its not very good and not working properly
wide kernel
what do i pick
short radish
tis definitely bugged
haughty mural
Void ritual ig
void ocean
whaat? bugged? impossible
wide kernel
i need a different secondary item for the greater enchantments? how do i get that one
lilac stag
Wait two weeks
wide kernel
is that serious? i cant progress more until then
lilac stag
You should look at #wowheadnews once in awhile
wide kernel
i did, i must have missed that part, what I read was that it uses a different component that takes twice as many runs to get
wide kernel
so its some random time gate on it that isnt specific
gleaming geyser
Yo my haste hit an all new low of 1%, does it matter? I remember needing something like 3-4% back in SL?
keen dome
I don't think it matters, no
lilac stag
robot tells you what you need
haughty rose
bru him turbo confused with the visions stuff. i read the whole wowhead article and still don't know shit.
keen dome
just do them and get currency
haughty rose
do i just kill alleria over and over again?
also how do i get the black blood residue? haven't got a single one so far
wide kernel
thats actually nice
glad i dont have to farm this more this week after all the 10 spam of last week
tepid trellis
also how do i get the black blood residue? haven't got a single one so far
bosses in the side areas drop them
wide kernel
i get one per each chest at the end after i kill a boss
i hear people get one after killing each boss but ive not seen that
haughty rose
i get one per each chest at the end after i kill a boss
lol i spammed it 3 times now and nothing so far
wide kernel
yeah i know
the guides are horrible and give you zero information even if you youtube it
haughty rose
but something aint right. spamming the dungeons that takes 1 minute if im lazy over and over again is weird idk
i think i'm playing it wrong
wide kernel
i did the same thing at the start
haughty rose
the guides are horrible and give you zero information even if you youtube it
yeah right? xD i read the whole wowhead article and wasn't any smarter afterwards
wide kernel
a tip tho, you can just go and do 2 bosses and let sanity run out, you get black blood at the end
tepid trellis
end
wide kernel
1 per boss?
tepid trellis
yes
tepid trellis
alleria doesnt count
short radish
do all 4
wide kernel
yeah, but a run should only yield 3 then right
wide kernel
are there not 3 areas?
tepid trellis
there are 4 zones
wide kernel
apparently yeah
tepid trellis
wide kernel
i saw 3 for some reason
tribal blade
what're we upset about today
wide kernel
apparently that this is timegated content
tribal blade
if we could file for overtime with wow i'd be a millionaire
wide kernel
i meant for the complaining we are contractually obligated to do for this channel
tribal blade
oh i see
vale pine
you lose sanity over time in the not starter zones
this is basically your limiting factor
tribal blade
i'm not sure to be amused or annoyed that blizz recycled content
and put it out as
"new"
keen dome
I think re-using content is fine
Esp such old content
I think it coming later in the patch is weird though
wide kernel
i would be happier if there were more cosmetics
wide kernel
this is also a lore thing right
short radish
Sub State, Timegate, Bugs
so same as usual?
keen dome
Sub State, Timegate, Bugs
I had a pug group wipe on Heroic Vexie this morning, we should add that to the list
wide kernel
I had a pug group wipe on Heroic Vexie this morning, we should add that to the l...
you have to submit it to HR, after that there is a 6-8 week process in which summons will be issues for sub rogues to protest your issue
there is currently a 9 month delay on new complaints
tribal blade
no shot i just ran a dslice sim that took forever and forgot to include the 1 item that would have given me a dps increase
wide kernel
with void ritual how does it work? similiar to each ability has X chance to activate? the TT isn't that clear
hazy breach
Almost everything in wow is rppm, this one is 1.5
aka it procs roughly 1.5 times per minute
limpid sage
surely this is just a tooltip bug
solar geode
i just simmed my dinar choices and apparently myth geargrinder keys is better than myth pacemaker?? both are in slot 2 wiith my slot 1 being hc house of cards
chat is this real
limpid sage
i just simmed my dinar choices and apparently myth geargrinder keys is better th...
tied for me on ST
solar geode
yeah but on dungeon slice apparently its 0.3% better
what the hell
wait nvm i got it mixed up
for me they're the same on dungeon slice but keys is 0.3% better on st
limpid sage
how much crit do you have
solar geode
25% i think
limpid sage
because might just be diminishing returns on crit
solar geode
i see
limpid sage
ye I'm sitting around 18% and it's equal in ST
solar geode
i honestsly have no clue where all the crit is coming from
oh
the neck
how come there aren't any necks with vers on them this season this is bullshit
solar geode
oh shit that's true
maybe i craft a vers/mastery neck and then pacemaker will be very nice
orr am i overcooking
tribal blade
nah crafting vers/mast neck is very good for sub
hazy breach
Idk just sim 
void ocean
nah crafting vers/mast neck is very good for sub
was my first craft this season
(i got hc dagger from the hidden trove)
solar geode
Idk just sim <:Surebud:1083827360815665235>
i actually have no idea how to sim crafted items
void ocean
dropptimizer or u can do it with top gear too
hazy breach
Just like any other item, you add them into top gear
gritty knot
wtf am I supposed to do with those visions? Do I upgrade the talent tree shit first? or is it irrelevant? The bosses don't drop those items I need for the head enchantment and those guides are horrible
solar geode
Just like any other item, you add them into top gear
oh shit you can do that??
haughty rose
Do we expect any change in playstyle with those corruptions?
hazy breach
Do we expect any change in playstyle with those corruptions?
Absolutely not
void ocean
oh shit you can do that??
hazy breach
Theyre pissweak
haughty rose
Absolutely not
good
tribal blade
damn sin chat popping off
tribal blade
nah people piling on zeroess lol
haughty mural
what're we upset about today
Dinars not having catchup 
void ocean
what did he do
tribal blade
Dinars not having catchup <:dracthyr_kek:1002454136706580620>
oh do they not? that's rough 😦
tribal blade
what did he do
he said they listened to his bug report about the belt not having stam
on ptr
and now they're calling him a manchild
tribal blade
i dunno, i'm steering well clear of all that lol
tribal blade
so if you missed last week you're boned from 3 dinars?
left ledge
Allegedly
tribal blade
1 week behind
haughty mural
So you are boned from this weeks
left ledge
Idk if that’s how it works
haughty mural
I atleast couldn’t accept new quests this week on my main yea
left ledge
Just to be clear you are going to the wanted poster for the quest right
haughty mural
So my alts now get more dinars then my main
haughty mural
Just to be clear you are going to the wanted poster for the quest right
Ofc
left ledge
Rip
fallow nimbus
Did you finish the first?
lilac stag
Love when we can’t formulate an actual argument so we just revert to insults.
void ocean
Did you finish the first?
always 😦
haughty mural
Did you finish the first?
Just didn’t turn in
For whatever reason (maybe lag idk)
lilac stag
Time to swap to SV
fallow nimbus
And you turned it in this week?
heady helm
which dungeons is sub good at?
haughty mural
Was standing in front of the guy when I logged in today after reset and realized I still need to turn in
So I turned in
No new quest
lilac stag
Worth playing? None
heady helm
i mean rookery last boss?
haughty mural
My alts do have new quests
void ocean
"just play something else, lol. u r 3 dps spec"
haughty mural
Time to swap to SV
void ocean
try top and work
lilac stag
then try it
heady helm
I have 679ilvl lmao
void ocean
bruh
lilac stag
and?
void ocean
still gonna get outdpsed by 650 demo
heady helm
from hitting target dummies
lilac stag
You mean your ST rotation?
heady helm
i guess it might not be that much different idk i want to try it out
lilac stag
Then try it
heady helm
I have assa and outlaw specs
just wondering if there are indeed certain niches where its good
haughty mural
heady helm
outlaw did better than asssa on rik i had second most barrel dmg behind a furry warrior as outlaw
lilac stag
it’s not good
sacred yarrow
why yall fighting now
heady helm
idk whoever this scath guy is just keeps saying dont play sub lmao
haughty mural
Just join bad people pugs and gap them as sub
lilac stag
No one it fighting. That the poison channel
lilac stag
void ocean
is scath a 3500 io player?
3500 iq
heady helm
so extreme tism
heady helm
M+ is the best part of this game
lilac stag
delves are
lilac stag
So is m+
void ocean
alright, jokes aside, sub is alright, depends what u want, u will be alright in 10-12 keys, probably wont top dps, more like fighting with tank but its not terrible
heady helm
nah m+ is fun as hell
lilac stag
The game ain’t hard
lilac stag
Just keep slamming your head against something
lilac stag
And it eventually dies
void ocean
u will do great boss dmg, u will do good dmg when u pop ur cds on the pack but between all that u r just not even showing up
heady helm
My prot war is like 657 illvl and smacks
sub boss dmg has to be better than assa lmao
void ocean
it is
heady helm
even though ass is doing like 6 mil overall in my 13 and 14 keys lmao
twilit phoenix
Sub is doing the same damage it did like 2 months ago bro
We’re down horrendous atm
heady helm
outlaw doing like 5 mil constant freight train but even in the 13 and 14 keys i cant get a tank to constantly pump the pulls
lilac stag
Sub is undertuned. It is reliant on a tank to pull correctly. You need skyfury and shout to try to keep up. You do no dmg outside of CDs and your clones don’t always hit what they’re supposed to on certain bosses. If there was any legitimate reason to play this spec in a key I would.
void ocean
thing is great portion of sub dmg can come from TFD, which requires u to be 6 sec out of combat, in keys where u chai pull that can affect u big deal
but in places like top and work u have usually time to restalth for that much between packs
so u probably do better there
heady helm
yeah assa has issues with restealthing but idk if its a smooth run its a smooth run
kk
void ocean
u have 2 vanishes, u cant have issues 😄
left ledge
thing is great portion of sub dmg can come from TFD, which requires u to be 6 se...
“6 sec”
heady helm
nah assa doesnt have many issues lol
lilac stag
u have 2 vanishes, u cant have issues 😄
Don’t bring up 📠 here
left ledge
I know I know 
hollow spear
@keen dome I think I know why your time played is so high. You probably spend 30h each week alone pugging heroic
hazy breach
thing is great portion of sub dmg can come from TFD, which requires u to be 6 se...
#showtooltip Vanish /cast Shuriken Storm /cast Vanish
Here you go, problem solved
left ledge
Is that how to bug tfd
heady helm
welp lets see if i get gapped by ele and havoc in this 10 mech work lmao
hazy breach
Yep, makes it tick during combat
But it wont start ticking during boss fights or during dance
hazy breach
Any delayed damage
lilac stag
lol
left ledge
I swear I’ve had it bugged on a boss
hazy breach
First boss of grimbatol ye
haughty mural
What
void ocean
wait, what r we talking about now
tepid trellis
you can game TFD
void ocean
im listening
tepid trellis
"force" it
hollow spear
I have no game
void ocean
no rizz
half remnant
I swear I’ve had it bugged on a boss
that's the next step, figure if it is possible to bug it during boss combat.
haughty mural
Why is doomblade set red 
sacred yarrow
we the flash now
hollow spear
that's the next step, figure if it is possible to bug it during boss combat.
They'd bugfix that harder than you can imagine
half remnant
Let me stay on my 
supply pls
hollow spear
And nerf sectec by 10% while they're at it
left ledge
At least then we have confirmation they’re aware we exist
formal helm
`#showtooltip Vanish
/cast Shuriken Storm
/cast Vanish`
I'm stealing this
remote shuttle
`#showtooltip Vanish
/cast Shuriken Storm
/cast Vanish`
Is shuriken storm needed if u just aim to grab tfd buff?
hollow spear
At least then we have confirmation they’re aware we exist
They are. They just like where we're at
half remnant
Is shuriken storm needed if u just aim to grab tfd buff?
No, but it is the easiest setup so far to get tfd buff during combat. It's storm not tornado so there should be no problem
keen dome
<@95119747300995072> I think I know why your time played is so high. You probabl...
Hahahah
void ocean
im confused, we ss/vanish and then chill for 6 sec?
hazy breach
No
half remnant
Actually you can do normal rotation
formal helm
im confused, we ss/vanish and then chill for 6 sec?
it ticks in combat
so you don't have to be out of combat for those 6 secs
with this
void ocean
3k here i come
hazy breach
Any delayed attack type thing works, clones, bp, coup etc
lilac stag
3k here i come
It’ll get hot fixed tomorrow.
left ledge
Sounds illegal but you’re still gonna get dogged on by any actual spec
hazy breach
But storm is just the easiest because A. Its got a short travel time so its hard to get knocked out and B. Its got no cd so its easy to fit into the rotation at any point
formal helm
Sounds illegal but you’re still gonna get dogged on by any actual spec <:ICANT:9...
nah let us cope!
half remnant
Also trinkets might trigger it like Geargrinder Keys, tinker socket like Neltharion's Breath etc
void ocean
Sounds illegal but you’re still gonna get dogged on by any actual spec <:ICANT:9...
jokes on u, im into dogging
not rly
maybe
hazy breach
Also trinkets might trigger it like Geargrinder Keys, tinker socket like Nelthar...
Or the buff after first boss in rookery, which is why it frequently procced there
void ocean
its classified
half remnant
Or the buff after first boss in rookery, which is why it frequently procced ther...
Oh that's true.
half remnant
3k here i come
I believe in you, you can do it 
void ocean
I believe in you, you can do it <a:cheer:1208150025818079252>
I can and I will... on my fdk...
😄
its on 2997
half remnant
formal helm
formal helm
think I'm at like 2.97k?
formal helm
oh, lying, it's 2.98k
heady helm
but its complete dog shit
void ocean
some good guys demanded 3200+ in lfg, i applied like dong give af, they still invited me... easiest 12++ in my life
was drunk too
void ocean
"community"
half remnant
void ocean
WF Gally or dont talk to me
formal helm
Do you have CE and 3500io?
4k or I'm not talking to you scath
hazy breach
Its not like its horribly unplayably bad, its just not great
lilac stag
4k or I'm not talking to you scath
We rolling 8K now
hazy breach
Like a 5% aura buff would make it completely fine
formal helm
We rolling 8K now
16k is the best I can do
swift tinsel
hollow spear
Does he play sub?
formal helm
he is sub
void ocean
well connected Scath
lilac stag
Didn’t have time to play the game. Too busy managing my twitch stream
formal helm
dom rog pog
void ocean
hey chat...
lilac stag
I've switched to dom rogue
Which talent options did you go with for assa? 
? 
? 
?
void ocean
is it true hybrid is now actually better?
hollow spear
Which talent options did you go with for assa? <:BleedBuild:1358218723986509834>...
Wdym. I'm playing arcane mage. More damage and more purple.
void ocean
by "now" i mean since apl got tinkered
lilac stag
trueeeeee
crystal bone
swift tinsel
True and actually
hollow spear
I will be good at it in four years
void ocean
arcane is dogshit more often than sub afaik
hollow spear
Have to finish my PhD in arcane barrage utilisation
lilac stag
arcane is dogshit more often than sub afaik
The other two are more often than not way better than any rogue spec
swift tinsel
Arcane has been giga strong at the start of expansions then gets taken out back
hollow spear
It's quite strong rn
void ocean
Arcane has been giga strong at the start of expansions then gets taken out back
frost dk story
void ocean
this is probably first season after a while that fdk stayed strong
in raids, i mean
it is usally good in keys
void ocean
last season probably best example
lilac stag
But it’s kept up
hollow spear
For some reason I could just never get into dk
swift tinsel
Yeah usually unholy takes over for the MDI-style massive pulls but now with blood beast they all feel like that
void ocean
first 2-3 weeks pog, then qq
swift tinsel
Dk is my other loved dps class besides rogue
void ocean
Dk is my other loved dps class besides rogue
same, broda
lilac stag
For some reason I could just never get into dk
you get forced into a extremely slow gcd 16 ability opener. No one wants that shit
swift tinsel
Yeah plus festering wound gameplay is actual aids
hollow spear
Doesn't it feel a little too wheelchair for you guys if you play rogue as mains?
swift tinsel
Tertiary resource that feels omegabad
lilac stag
Legit just cast sequence the opener.
void ocean
rider dk is a rocket
swift tinsel
Doesn't it feel a little too wheelchair for you guys if you play rogue as mains?
Nah bc it means you can also immune every single mechanic so who cares about speed
swift tinsel
Plus you get a Roar/WRT if you need to move
I play both rider and db
SF tho, I don’t love breath but it’s better now that it’s not perma-breath bc that just felt like worse Sinful Brand havoc from SL
haughty mural
Thought deathbringer is back
haughty mural
Just saw the numbers of one in my groups
swift tinsel
Close enough where you can pretty much play either. DB has the most variance in the game so it can be realllllly frustrating
haughty mural
Mark hits like sectech
swift tinsel
If you get good resets on Mark
You’re living the dream
Otherwise you’re praying for death
haughty mural
Maybe gonna level my dk soon
swift tinsel
Yea imagine if Sectech hits could chain proc Sectech
That’s how powerful it can be in aoe if you get lucky
swift tinsel
I think it has over 1mil variance between top and bottom iterations in sims tho so the pendulum swings quite hard in both directions
void ocean
Thought deathbringer is back
depends, i prefer rider in keys where mobs move a lot, like Priory
heady helm
sub rogue is a support class?
that shit is buns
only good for bursting down a prio target then boom gone in the wind
swift tinsel
Yeah rider is very cozy in keys and you don’t have to rely on extermination reproccing
Plus thematically it fucking owns
And you kinda get necrotic plague back via whitemane
void ocean
u have 45 sec cloak + occasional procs of it inbetween 😄
swift tinsel
My fav playstyle 😭
haughty mural
And you are unkillable actually
haughty mural
Same Brother
swift tinsel
Until they remove wounds from unholy
haughty mural
Also the „again“ is same
swift tinsel
Then I’ll dabble in that too
haughty mural
swift tinsel
It’s wild, seeing a spec get mostly intuitive tuning/any at all
haughty mural
I dislike breath tho
swift tinsel
Same, I only play shattering builds as frost
Unless breath is crazy strong which thankfully it isn’t
haughty mural
We are the same
swift tinsel
Plus with a mouse over frost strike macro it makes shattered frost builds suuuuper easy to play in keys
No target swapping at all
void ocean
i dont even use that and im still close top if not top in overall
i always just hit my main target
swift tinsel
I have one for fs and oblit for trollbane chains and it’s notably strong
severe prism
Soooooo if i'm "unintentionally" proccing tfd every 2m, there's no way weaponmaster still outperform it in raid right ?
lilac stag
It’s wild, seeing a spec get mostly intuitive tuning/any at all
It’s almost like they don’t know all of the minor shit that goes on in certain specs and instead of trying to sort it and make it better they just shove it under the rug like a kid doing chores at home.
swift tinsel
Surely you can’t be talking about subtlety
lilac stag
your words
swift tinsel
Preposterous
half remnant
Soooooo if i'm "unintentionally" proccing tfd every 2m, there's no way weaponmas...
It does not work during boss fights for now afaik
severe prism
Makes sense vanish doesn't really drop combat in raid
swift tinsel
Blizz shelving sub 
lilac stag
You only drop combat in raid if you’re the last targetable player and then fight resets
severe prism
Yep
gritty knot
for m+ its echoing void corruption aswell right?
hazy breach
Idk shit seems bugged
gritty knot
ye u saw that u wrote smth about 1 corruption being bugged but i couldnt remember what u wrote and didnt find it anymore
*i saw
lilac stag
TD random ass
GW seems consistent
We back at its doesn’t matter. 
just like Sub to blizzard
next up we should revisit embelishments and replacing OH crafted daggers
haughty mural
vale pine
ye u saw that u wrote smth about 1 corruption being bugged but i couldnt remembe...
assassination channel has a pin, but its fixed already apperently
but i guess corruption won't be stable beofre a few days or a week in the event
worn ivy
Blizzard is fooling us. There is no point paying subs to this game anymore.
slate marlin
worn ivy
They robbed us.
haughty mural
Just enjoy the game lashga
worn ivy
I have never seen an MMORPG with a development unit that are so far removed from the people that pay their wages and play the game, they are currently hiring after firing large numbers of developers and all they are going to do is hire more people who ideologically agree with them and have very little love for the game. Widening this chasm and magnifying the problem.
How can a company update a game when the people who make the content have near nothing in common with the people that consume it? Can you imagine taking the current wow developers and players and putting them in a big room together in 2025? both groups would be on either side of the room looking for the exit to get away from the other that they think are "awful people".
haughty rose
what am i reading
worn schooner
a crash out
fallow nimbus
He's at his limit
alpine wraith
well gameplay with classes should be somewhere in prio
sadly i think they just kick the can down the road with sub
since quite forever
haughty rose
bubbletea rogue
alpine wraith
but also like someone said games thrive if the people that make the game want to play it themselves
old venture
Ain’t no way this guy wrote a short story about his displeasure with wow development
worn schooner
my cope is squarely on another rogue overhaul in 11.2
Till then ill play hang around rogue and dabble in other classes ezpz
old venture
keen dome
Nah, has to be a copy and paste
alpine wraith
it is funny how feral is kinda a cooler rogue somewhat
keen dome
Also it's worth considering what the normal playerbase is too
old venture
it is funny how feral is kinda a cooler rogue somewhat
????
brittle plinth
it is funny how feral is kinda a cooler rogue somewhat
It really is
keen dome
Rogues can go meow, too
brittle plinth
But I didn't pick sub, sub picked me. I'm still having a blast.
old venture
Play female undead
Then you do a front flip
It’s actually the sickest finisher animation
alpine wraith
taurens go hard too
old venture
Shame the racial are dogshit
haughty mural
Poor lashga
alpine wraith
they do an omega punch
haughty mural
That’s the second time today
brittle plinth
Sectec graphic is so amazing, half the time you assume something happened even if you can't see it
brittle plinth
I heard
old venture
Low key I love kul tiran
old venture
Well it’s not that they gave up
brittle plinth
We are the ducttape spec
old venture
It’s the 11.5 people still maintaining wow, have more important things to fix. Like bugs that give us more damage
alpine wraith
nah they did when it broke after bfa once or twice it worked sometimes or lost 1 copy
then they said fuck it
brittle plinth
Held together with a prayer and red neck ingenuity
old venture
alpine wraith
and just made it disappear
idk when in sl
did you see the tfd reset exploit oxi?
old venture
I did not
alpine wraith
we are made of tortellini
alpine wraith
you can vanish after any multi hit thing or delayed
old venture
Call it a week lmao
alpine wraith
they first need to know what tfd is
keen dome
We really are spaghetti
alpine wraith
apart from the first descendant
old venture
Anything that gives more damage gets fixed first
old venture
I started leveling my pally alt
half remnant
it would require to fix stealth and combat, or just putting vanish on gcd 
old venture
And I have like cool hero talents
worn ivy
If Blizzard don't sort themselves out, they are not going to have much of a future outside of warcraft candy crush.
alpine wraith
man the swirling hammers
old venture
And I’m like wow no wonder everyone else loves this expansion
alpine wraith
are peak hero spec
and we have some coins wet purple farts that are buggy and annoying
old venture
Are the purple farts trickster?
alpine wraith
and some yellow lines that if you do 4 of them like coke
you can crash out and flail a bit
old venture
Can confirm that on my monk and hunter
It’s fucking wild
old venture
Then I play my rogue and I don’t even notice our hero talents lmao
alpine wraith
holy shit
haughty mural
Conduit and BA going harrrrrd
lilac stag
One spec that does no dmg. One spec that tries to kill itself every 16 seconds. One spec that needs no doze at the ready. Thanks devs.
old venture
Does death stalker have ANY animations at all?
lilac stag
Purple star
haughty mural
Above their head
old venture
Terrific
haughty mural
Almost invisible
old venture
Wow!
haughty mural
As sub is on meters
lilac stag
I can’t wait for this tier to be over
alpine wraith
fatal intent also has an animation when it pops
fiery pewter
One spec that does no dmg. One spec that tries to kill itself every 16 seconds. ...
I somewhat enjoy Outlaw, but I did a DFC and once I Killing Spree'd into a wax figure it immediately killed my desire to play the spec lol
haughty rose
In Dornogal’s hush, where the nightwind sighs,
A rogue sat brooding with flame in his eyes.
Steel at his side, but his fury ran deep, or numbers don’t lie, and shadows don’t weep.
“I danced once,” he whispered, “with blades like a flame,
Each strike a stanza, each kill earned my name.
Now I shadowstep, vanish, strike true, yet mages and monks pass me like dew.”
They told me ‘be subtle,’ they told me ‘be grace,’
But what is finesse when you finish last place?
He sipped his regret in a tavern of gold,
A ghost in the meters, forgotten and cold.
So raise not a cheer for the rogue in the shade.
His cuts are clean, but his value decayed.
For what is a shadow that no one will fear?
Just numbers in grey, then gone, and disappeared.
alpine wraith
but it is like finding waldo
lilac stag
It’ll be a rehash next expac too
I’m done
haughty mural
Meanwhile I press conduit and my whole screen is green and I am pulsating
alpine wraith
as arcane you have a craked out phoenix slamming iconic spells
old venture
Maybe we’ll get animations for them by the 3rd try
half remnant
That doom reading is making me think I shouldn't have this much fun as I have playing with sub. Going back to my copium chamber before I notice real world
alpine wraith
as sub you have some flailing
keen dome
I can’t wait for 2 more expacs of death stalker trickster and fate bound!
don't worry in midnight they'll have the word Void suffixed on.
old venture
don't worry in midnight they'll have the word Void suffixed on.
Pog
keen dome
And in last titan?
We get something even cooler: Affixed'd Titan
Titan Trickster Void
old venture
That doom reading is making me think I shouldn't have this much fun as I have pl...
Sub is fun as fuck man, it shines despite all the duct tape and dental floss holding it together
lilac stag
Maybe we’ll get animations for them by the 3rd try
Nope. Too busy being a housing simulator to do anything for a class.
haughty mural
Always a pleasure when you’re here
lilac stag
Sub is pain. The wax wings flying too close to the sun.
haughty mural
To rant with us
old venture
They spent 2 expacs making sub have the sickest niche
Only to gut it for one boss in bfa
worn ivy
lilac stag
Just a state that never changes.
old venture
Leave the spec dead for the rest of the expac
And then slap a purple puff aoe finisher
That makes zero sense thematically
lilac stag
Leave the spec dead for the rest of the expac
And then give that niche to others
haughty mural
The zul incident
keen dome
That makes zero sense thematically
You could say this about a lot of Sub's stuff. 
worn ivy
fiery pewter
Needs to lean fully into being a Ninja so I can become Hokage
haughty mural
Lashga don’t crash out
Everything will be alright
hazy breach
That doom reading is making me think I shouldn't have this much fun as I have pl...
Many such cases
alpine wraith
instead of the cuck dance spam of course
hazy breach
Just vibe, frick the haters
alpine wraith
big numbers as in big crits singular ones
keen dome
Just vibe, frick the haters
hell yeah
keen dome
I'm having fun in the visions 'cos SecTec deletes stuff so hard if i pull a ton
haughty mural
Legion had that too
alpine wraith
not even first dps
old venture
Brother you’re still riding the hopium of your corruption crits
haughty mural
Big numbers big crits
alpine wraith
it was fine in gameplay just dps was horrible
old venture
Bfa sub was absolutely dogshit to play
alpine wraith
it was also easy
old venture
The traits were all trash
alpine wraith
i did hate azerite
but i hated more having 3 rogues
and ll of them getting 4 shit legendaries and blizz LYING ABOUT SOFTCAP that one still irks me
worn ivy
U had to use nightblade to trigger the bufff
alpine wraith
and having to play shadow priest