yes to delay coup till cds
#subtlety
tribal blade
haughty totem
Any website or page where we can see some more detailed CD management on each boss of undermine raid as sub?
Find it tricky to time on bosses like rik / mugzee / stix
solid lotus
and for my final painful question for the evening, how long does it take to farm the pvp trinket? progging mythic sprocket and i still dont have any cards š¦
tribal blade
i haven't done it but it sounds pretty fast
you just queue some bgs and stuff with the weekly quests and it should be pretty quick to bang out
final holly
If you work from home just farm crates between emails
brittle plinth
and for my final painful question for the evening, how long does it take to farm...
It can take a while if you get crappy weekly.
But you can also just do spark of war then do the normal world quests in a zone + crate
haughty totem
https://lorrgs.io
thanks
brittle plinth
It's fast
hazy breach
Nah dont bother with the BP, its typically better to just not finish if you have coup and flag is ~10s away (provided you have enough dance cdr because you didnt screw up earlier)
Sim should be updated sometime soon with that update, it doesnt really change the numbers at all just removes BP from casts so people stop getting confused
hazy breach
My BP and rupture spam single target
Pray blizzard buffs BP
So we can go deathstalker and unbind sectech, evis and rupture 
paper iron
So i can unbind evis
hazy breach
(this is sarcasm, i do not want this)
final holly
If you have coup up going into a SD do you coup before sectech even if it means wasting a bunch of CDR?
hazy breach
Well if its not the flag one
You either have sectech ready, in which case you'd already be dancing to send to sectech
Or you dont, in which case the cdr isnt wasted
paper iron
Btw eleem i feelcraft it but is it good to just stack so sht before sending cds ? I sometimes just afk alt tab 10s before sending cuz i dont wannz press backstab
hazy breach
But for the flag one yes you sectech first
hazy breach
Btw eleem i feelcraft it but is it good to just stack so sht before sending cds ...
Thats what i literally just said #subtlety message 
hazy breach
Backstabbing is worth still, esp if you dont have coup
paper iron
Ok
Yea or at least 2 stacks of ub since the first sectech Will guarantee cdg
I m guessing
hazy breach
The more the merrier really
Sim still says to continue backstabbing even at 4 stacks of coup, but idk i like throwing out a cheeky storm to waste my energy instead if im at 4
wheat edge
Sin sitting at 0 energy doing nothing and sub sitting at full energy doing nothing š¤
sand monolith
kek
hazy breach
And it makes me a happy frog
Sectech > get refund > coup
Dont waste any unseen blades and get a second coup before next sectech
Sim doesnt like forcing it really, but it feels good
paper iron
Yea it feels better
limpid sage
anyone know how to apply tier set stacks in Raidbots?
keen dome
Sin sitting at 0 energy doing nothing and sub sitting at full energy doing nothi...
that's what i call teamwork
fleet acorn
In raid fuu sub st sim Finality > rotten
Even my own sim is finality > rotten
Why Are All r1 Parses with rotten?
Was there a change i didnt notice?
hazy breach
The difference is pretty negligible
fleet acorn
So Most people just play rotten cause its less to think with almost no dmg difference?
hazy breach
They probably havent checked that theres a difference
wide kernel
how high should i be aiming to get my mastery?
limpid sage
In raid fuu sub st sim Finality > rotten
Even my own sim is finality > rotten
...
I think itās because APL uses Symbols before Shadow Dance so you canāt Dance->Backstab->SOD to get the most out of your Rotten stacks
hazy breach
I think itās because APL uses Symbols before Shadow Dance so you canāt Dance->Ba...
The APL does it because its not worth to delay
wide kernel
currently 87% mastery 17% vers 3% haste 25% crit
hazy breach
how high should i be aiming to get my mastery?
Whatever raidbot tells you is the best combination of your gear
wide kernel
how do i do that? i know droptimizer, and quick sim
hazy breach
topgear
wide kernel
ty
wild vine
Also not particularly more to think about with finality than with rotten
limpid sage
The APL does it because its not worth to delay
But you only gain 16% dmg on a backstab, wouldnāt it always be a gain to have another stack for Shadowstrikes (given find weakness is up)?
wide kernel
i dont understand what its asking when its asking me to select two combinations
wide kernel
what i'm wanting to know is if my stats are correct so if they are wrong i can go get differently statted gear to change it
what gear i have already doesnt help much, i already simmed it
hollow spear
or do a droptimizer to see what it wants you to get
hazy breach
It compares items, add items you want to compare
hollow spear
if it wants you to get a different item at the same ilvl, you will have your answer
wide kernel
is there not some formula already like 95% mastery and etc?
hollow spear
no
hazy breach
No
hollow spear
My circlet is going crazy rn. I can change one item and it switches from versatility to mastery.
hazy breach
But you only gain 16% dmg on a backstab, wouldnāt it always be a gain to have an...
You also possibly get 0.5s less uptime on your symbols, less sht stacks, fw isnt always up and not to mention the strikes and backstabs arent doing that much to begin with 
Its not like its massively worse to delay
Its just not better, and its more work
So why bother
hollow spear
I'd just mess it up
And get -3% dps
Backstabbing once has now become muscle memory
Now they can nerf something that makes us not want to do it anymore, to punish me
wild vine
My circlet is going crazy rn. I can change one item and it switches from versati...
Dang brother how much vers do you even have. 
hollow spear
According to my latest log:
hollow spear
I got a Roulette Wheel with high vers
wild vine
I have one with high vers low mastery aswell, but the vers mastery one from top sims better
hollow spear
With my current stats, the bot likes crit approx. as much as the other two
wild vine
Yeah same. I'm even running a crit>mastery waist
hollow spear
Would probably change if I had pacemaker
wild vine
Nah its that way for me even with pacemaker
hollow spear
I'd get 3k dps by upgrading pacemaker from 658 to 665, compared to my energy drink
cringe
robust igloo
Hey, I have question about scenario where there are a lot of mobs like 10~ or soo but they are going to die quickly, soo in this case is it better to use cold blood with ST on start before i stack flagg to use it on big pack?
Or is it still better to use stacked flagg with cold.blood on for ex 3mobs
hollow spear
I would send CB early, but that's entirely feelycraft
if the targets that survive longer are more dangerous for the group, it's probably better to play ethical and send cold blood on 2nd sectec
golden totem
If you wanna optimise ur overall yeah for sure. But if you wanna optimise key timer and send the most damage possible on the healthier targets then you should follow the generic rule
robust igloo
Okay, thank you guys š¤
thick cedar
I'm at 98% mastery unbuffed is that too high guys?
dreamy badger
Nah its fine
thick cedar
Only 20% vers tho :\
shell bramble
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hollow spear
can't have it all
muted frigate
!up
wicked joltBOT
hollow spear
If in doubt, it's probably better to send your sectec directly on the barrels on Rik?
Sometimes I'm unsure about the aoe range if I cleave from the boss with sectec
fallow nimbus
I have 678 pacemaker, my gear is heavy mastery with vers and sim wants vers/crit gems with vers/crit enchants
alpine wraith
i want truckloads more mastery big D
fallow nimbus
Also simming 4 gem colors is a tiny bit better than just 1 for me, but i replace the haste one with the 1 extra the sim chooses
I have 21k mastery
cloud rover
What
alpine wraith
circe ring goes brrr
fallow nimbus
I also have a 665 house of cards
alpine wraith
yea if i didnt have the pvp neck i would be even higher
but also i dont think i can get more than 30k without inting stats a lot
glass jasper
Question, when I have all 10s, can I not deplete below 10s? Or does that feature kick in at 12s?
alpine wraith
only at 12s
fallow nimbus
At 12
fallow nimbus
All 12
vale widget
Hi, newcomer here
I'm sure chosing playing sub after a long time is a harsh decision but I always wanted to give a try.
The opener I got it, but I have issues to maintain dps during offtime, more at m+. And I saw sectech is always my first source of dmg, even at ST. But checking logs I saw evis is first source so... Idk what I'm doing bad.
Have I to do always bs > evis regardless CP or I have to spend at +6 CP?
I know I need more mast too, but idk if there's anything apart of that I have to correct
cloud rover
Like my Sim want me to drop high mastery Bandit ring against High vers ring
fallow nimbus
Sitting at sims after raid night and squeezing another 1k dps gain out of your gear is addicting
I use the versa flask after i got stupid haste from chaos in cds too many times
cloud rover
Im using it anyways
alpine wraith
i dont even look at it same kinda
cloud rover
Because its a gain and more def 
slate marlin
Hi, newcomer here
I'm sure chosing playing sub after a long time is a harsh deci...
You have 0 dmg out of shadowdance/sod, thats normal. ideally you spend at 6 cp. Idk about the log part
muted agate
wax whistkle is biggest scam
wild vine
limpid sage
sometimes I get my combo points refreshed despite being only 6 stacks of SHT - it only happens when I use coup though
is there something I'm missing as to why it does this?
hazy breach
Its a bug
Coup does its damage over 1 second. An initial hit, a hit after 0.4s and one hit after 1s
All of these counts as finishers for the refund of shadowcraft
So if you have 6 sht when you cast coup, but you get +2 around 0.6s later, the 1s hit will refund you
grim anchor
If you get out of melee during that 1s does it stop the extra hits from coup
limpid sage
So if you have 6 sht when you cast coup, but you get +2 around 0.6s later, the 1...
thought it might be something like that
meager coyote
the sub trinket sim list for st in the sheet has the rotten instead of 1 point in finality btw, is that an oversight? @vale pine
limpid sage
the amount of times I've been locked into shadowstrike in my spellqueue window where this would happen...
hazy breach
Coup has a 1.2s gcd though so technically theres still room to react
(and you can also not spam buttons if you end up couping at 5 or 6 sht)
But ye its annoying
vale pine
the sub trinket sim list for st in the sheet has the rotten instead of 1 point i...
yes, i would need to re-run it but it shouldn't change much in terms of outcome
modest river
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
meager coyote
yes, i would need to re-run it but it shouldn't change much in terms of outcome
cool : ) just wanted to confirm
vale pine
moment, can do in ~5 minutes
EDIT: done
mint swift
Guys what should I do if I accidentally ingested black powder
final holly
You're only the one target so it shouldn't hurt
vale widget
You have 0 dmg out of shadowdance/sod, thats normal. ideally you spend at 6 cp. ...
I see, I'm trying to learn but it can be frustrating sometimes
My friend keeps telling me to try assa because do more with less effort, but overall I enjoy sub
hollow spear
Coup has a 1.2s gcd though so technically theres still room to react
is that still a thing? I thought they normalized the gcd?
hazy breach
I thought so too but nah they didnt
Or idk if they did and then accidently reverted it
Its 1.2 right now atleast
silent ruin
Does gloomblade splash with nimble? Cause tooltip doesn't mention even when you talent into it
keen marten
Most of the time you can feel if you get the full refund or not
At least from my experience
You just look at your sht and press nothing until it either jumps or the gcd is over
Kinda like that tbh
It is random, but rewards fast reaction time
hazy breach
Does gloomblade splash with nimble? Cause tooltip doesn't mention even when you ...
Yes
grave delta
How do u do dmg on the adds that spawn at 1:30 on one armed bandit without blowing up...
Feels like I'm either always out of range or not cleaving all of them
hazy breach
You stand right next to them and nimble
"but what if i get focused?"
Then you immediately vanish 
grave delta
what if it swaps target to my monkey warrior
and he blows us up
Vanish seems dangerous..
hazy breach
Not if you do it immediately
sly shore
you hold vanish on pull
hazy breach
Could use a WA like this. It will give you a TTS voice saying "Vanish" whenever the mobs starts casting on you
sly shore
grave delta
it links to someone elses cat..
grave delta
What's on his nose
sly shore
the sun
grave delta
that's not the sun...
grave delta
wicked joltBOT
Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.
raw wadi
is it true that i can send a third symbols between the first to second and third to fourth cd window?
grave delta
Yes the tale of the hidden 3rd symbols is true
empty cargo
Hey, whatās the website Iāve seen mentioned in here that shows the highest parses on boss kills & when they used what?
vale pine
^ clickable link:
> open lorrgs <
honest brook
is ratfang toxin delv trinket is good on sub you think?
. For you? 
delicate wind
when in doubt, sim it out
swift tinsel
I think I've had one in every vault this season lol
alpine wraith
big rat
shy orbit
is it normal for devestation to have a higher burst than my subtlety?
swift tinsel
what context
swift tinsel
flameshaper is pretty fun and big aoe
bleak night
and its like 3 buttons
bleak night
i mean before the first big burst of damage
they keep pressing buttons after obviously
swift tinsel
well yeah, they get their second sectech as their like fourth global
2x engulf is big dam right out the gate
bleak night
if i didnt already have like 3 alts i cant choose between i'd consider dev as an alt
swift tinsel
was originally thinking survival or arms but gave fs dev a go and its big fun
and its kinda like sub where your in-between goes are lining up stuff for engulf like we do with sectech
bleak night
i'd also be more willing to play dev if it wasnt for
you know
the transmog situation
swift tinsel
I just use gleeful glamors
bleak night
true i need to stock up
swift tinsel
minus hover cancelling all animations
so you shoot beams from your chest while you don't move at all
bleak night
iron man type shit
swift tinsel
its like someone is click-dragging your immobile toon around lol
I might respec my enchanter to make glamours
save a bit of gold
bleak night
i remember some of them were overpriced as fuck at the start, are they still way too expensive
swift tinsel
Umm I think r3's are like 8-900 last I checked
I don't remember if they last through death, if not its not worth paying that much
shy orbit
question when my first shadow dance ends should i immediately go into the second one
or do i wait until the CD on ST is close
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
remote shuttle
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
spare elm
My buddy plays sub in our push comp with guardian disc uhdk and ele shaman. I know sub is far better single target and considering the other 2 dps are uncapped aoe would it better to put him on single target priority focus or is subs aoe good enough that it's not really necessary. We make huge pulls around cds and idk what the flow of sub looks like to know if it would be better to just let him aoe or if st focus would be better utilized
hazy breach
My buddy plays sub in our push comp with guardian disc uhdk and ele shaman. I kn...
Cant swap any talents anyway
tepid trellis
so i cant go vanish 0,1 sekunden before they spawn?
as soon as it fixates you, you just vanish it off
raw wadi
yeah but isnt it like another one gets a fast fixate?
spare elm
Cant swap any talents anyway
I know he can't swap talents but I know that during cds subs aoe is basically the same as single target but outside of cds idk if it would be better to have him do his aoe rotation or just continue with single target on priority mobs
hazy breach
He does no damage anyway
spare elm
is subs aoe outside of cds really that awful?
spare elm
How many mobs can sub aoe in dance with cds.
raw wadi
is this bugged again or intended? i was the only sub @Cauldron
hazy breach
If the person logging is more than 100 yards away
That same issue hasnt been fixed since DF launch
raw wadi
kk so i should log myself also?
Did someone racial sims recently?
iĀ“ve read tauren and dwarfs are bugged and their racial is doubled
shadow lance
How many mobs can sub aoe in dance with cds.
Wdym?
inland hedge
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
alpine wraith
oh i saw an augmentation evoker
tidal python
iĀ“ve read tauren and dwarfs are bugged and their racial is doubled
wtf
jaunty umbra
oh i saw an augmentation evoker
limber relic
oh i saw an augmentation evoker
I thought those all went extinct
alpine wraith
he left
quaint orbit
Do I always secret tech with 2 super charger combo points or is 1 super charger combo point ok too?
delicate wind
Do I always secret tech with 2 super charger combo points or is 1 super charger ...
yes
hazy breach
No, its completely fine to symbols > evis > sectech
kind bluff
In between our flag windows is it OK to hold my small burst windows till I have coup to send coup into s3ctec for the extra flawless stacks?
twilit phoenix
Not really worth holding mini burst for coup
kind bluff
And I finally made it into the top 10 on Allstars for heroic (it's only heroic but it was a goal when I swapped rogue this tier)
void hound
can you hit two adds when the boss stands between them on bandit?
like does nimble hit both
clever delta
very cool item just 0,1% dps loos
steady dagger
Is there a weak aura to see when the last moment I can secret tech in my shadowdance window?
steady dagger
very cool item just 0,1% dps loos
it's worth to give ally stats probs
clever delta
yeah fuck ally
tepid trellis
its just when there is more than 1.3 sec left of dance
steady dagger
ik
clever delta
already losing dps for play pvp trinket
steady dagger
a WA with a line through a graph would make it easy
tepid trellis
probably not something anyone has made since its not really something we do ever
tepid trellis
use it as first finisher depending on fazed status and coup status
steady dagger
for a fat tech
slender idol
If I just hit 80 and have absolute rat gear does anyone know if sub or sin would be better while gearing?
like does one scale better than the other
shrewd wren
sub sub
slender idol
Wicked
shrewd wren
check your question
dunno if you meant assa or outlaw
id say play what you like more imo
astral minnow
I think fury
latent finch
use it as first finisher depending on fazed status and coup status
Sorry to ask but when do we dont use it as first finisher outside of the shadowbladed window?
tepid trellis
fazed up + coup rdy
latent finch
thanks
wispy bolt
If Iām in like a 10+ mob pack, my meters show using BP does less damage than just using evis. I must be doing something wrong right?
Iāve tried so many different things and evis just seems to do moreā¦ plus prio so idk
plush roost
If Iām in like a 10+ mob pack, my meters show using BP does less damage than jus...
Are you applying find weakness
wispy bolt
Yes with shuriken
plush roost
Are you shadow striking during cds for flawless form stacks
wispy bolt
Shuriken once and then shadow strike
lilac stag
Shuriken once and then shadow strike
No
Strike then storm. Make sure you have rotten.
wispy bolt
Yeah if Iām starting the pull I strike
plush roost
No you always strike>storm
wispy bolt
I mean I apply find weakness then go back to strikes
lilac stag
No
plush roost
For your rotten charges
lilac stag
Storm eats both rotten charges
You strike first
Getting told what your doing wrong when you ask and arguing
plush roost
Honestly if you had a log or a clip people could probably help you out asap. Just mathematically bp at 7+ is correct
quick current
!wa
wicked joltBOT
willow bobcat
@tepid trellis I saw mention from Fuu that you guys are working on numbers for incorrect play on transmitter. Do you guys have any speculative numbers yet are is that still too uncooked?
willow bobcat
What were the conditions for that loss?
Like just messing up solving the puzzle in time?
tepid trellis
Missing your 2nd sectech in it
willow bobcat
So more like getting the buff too early and having it fall off before you hit the big dam sec tec
tepid trellis
Yes
willow bobcat
Ty homie, appreciate you and all that you guys do.
next pulsar
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
steep geyser
Can anyone help me understand why my sim is telling me that i shouldn't recraft my haste vers peices..? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/347TmztwRDDDmuhSVfkhY3
patent crystal
hazy breach
You didnt sim a non-hastevers neck
wet jacinth
i have a question regarding sod and shadow dance. i know that symbols doesnt need shadow dance but shadow dance is always cast with symbols. The thing i dont know however is if you always use symbols on cd and pool withing 30s of flagellation or if you only use symbols and shadow dance mini burst when they cap on max charges. (tldr. do you use symbols and shadow dance only when they cap on 2 and 3 or on cooldown and pool 30s before flagelation big burst )
thanks in advance
subtle jewel
Can anyone help me out with a gear question? I just got 645 Glowtorc and currently have a 645 crt/vers from a bountiful delve. The delve neck sims higher but the Glowtorc is BiS according to the list on Wowhead. Is this current list not up to date and I should listen to the sim or is the sim actually wrong? (likely user error on my part). Link to my sim here: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/h4d5wPp1C8frGQdooZAsQi
swift tinsel
BiS is relative
since there's a ton of gear combinations that sim within a very small margin of each other
subtle jewel
So my sim isn't user error?
swift tinsel
Nope
subtle jewel
Awesome, thank you sir
swift tinsel
it shows the best combo of gear you sim, so adding different pieces to a top gear sim will yield different results based on what your'e simming
BiS lists are pretty much a meme so I wouldn't follow them too strictly, they're just required for wowhead and whatnot
subtle jewel
I did not know that! Thanks for the info I will follow it more as a guideline then
Actually makes things much simpler
chrome palm
Can anyone help me out with a gear question? I just got 645 Glowtorc and current...
Fyi the PvP neck is really good for sub if you donāt mind farming
subtle jewel
the glad one? I don't mind farming it
void verge
has anyone had sectech bug out on them where it doesnt reduce the cd with spent combo points?
indigo steppe
did anyone get dc'd
void verge
did anyone get dc'd
yeah my whole (small) guild did
real panther
i have a question regarding sod and shadow dance. i know that symbols doesnt nee...
30s of flag = dance+sod if dance ready. if >20s of flag = sod solo
stoic lark
!upgrade
real panther
its a rule of thumb, ofc if you only have 1stack of sod cd dont do that (the sod solo part)
woven hinge
!Wa
wicked joltBOT
thick temple
How often do you guys reslot gems when you get a new piece? I know gems give relatively smaller increases compared to actual gear but I just get confused when sim tells me to get crit vers gem and then a couple of upgrades later it's better to have another gem supposedly
hazy breach
Literally never
young mural
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
solar geode
I just realised I got house of cards and immediately started doing way better on damage
am I carried?
honest brook
guys should i use primary game on neck on sub?
hazy breach
It doesnt matter where you primary gem is
honest brook
It doesnt matter where you primary gem is
some one said sub use thunder gem insted of primary
hazy breach
I have no idea what a thunder gem is
amber blaze
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
proper latch
Tried Eye of Kezan in PSF and I think it's good
honest saddle
!wa
wicked joltBOT
small juniper
@lucid jackal your raid leader not happy
small juniper
his blood is boiling
twilit phoenix
guy streaming rn?
molten citrus
Gratz @lucid jackal
lucid jackal
kind bluff
Gratz!!!!
twilit phoenix
rogue nowhere to see
lucid jackal
just watched that shit live
btw
I've gotten 2 pieces of mythic loot the entire tier 
3 actually (Dagger doesnt count)
No hoc, no eye of kezan, no jaster fuck my chungus life
twilit phoenix
twilit phoenix
No hoc, no eye of kezan, no jaster fuck my chungus life
you'll have all 3 in vault next week
and you'll have to make the hardest decision of your life
huge grats tho
silent osprey
is there a weakaura that tracks secret technique total dmg per cast?
molten citrus
So my vault is fucked
i know a rogue 
lucid jackal
I already ahve no fucking gear bro who tf cares
I literally get penis dick and balls vaults every tier then no raid loot drops
GG fuck my chungus life
spark tusk
but boss is dead you won you beat the game
twilit phoenix
spark tusk
congrats btw
paper iron
he has 3foot long fingers fr fr
paper iron
also no atro 
guess you were double rogue anyway
paper iron
sub 30th also
that s real good
dang i just stalked u guys were 27th on nerubar also
GN stands for gamers nuts, too good too good
lucid jackal
also no atro <:monkaW:675691826505711626> guess you were double rogue anyway
That was amirdrasil bro
paper iron
yea i know
that was tindralshit
dont worry i wont ever forget how many kb he parried me
lucid jackal
Gallywix is a really fun boss
Just a bit too easy
I hate that people conflate pull count with a good boss
queen was good for reasons more than just a 400 pull count 
twilit phoenix
queen was good for reasons more than just a 400 pull count <:OMEGALUL:5881870120...
yeah that dump truck
almost as unreal as broodkeeper's wagon
shut ridge
outer parrot
sry for tag but same thing has been happening to me since tww came out, cant reproduce it outside of raid/m+ so equally as confused
winter stratus
can you cloak frost spike on mugzee?
short radish
80% sure no
acutally 90% sure no
i definitely know you cant human racial out of it
bleak night
100% sure no
winter stratus
What about dodge?
steel horizon
sry for tag but same thing has been happening to me since tww came out, cant rep...
Its rng man. The only thing i find that helps is trying to delay the SS slightly. It bugs more often if i SS like 0.1 seconds after the vanish
outer parrot
Its rng man. The only thing i find that helps is trying to delay the SS slightl...
ye ive been doing this too lol not like its a huge loss just weird
azure notch
Could any experience sub look at my logs n tell me what I'm doing wrong please ? I'm new to sub
I really don't wanna go back to assasin
short radish
Could any experience sub look at my logs n tell me what I'm doing wrong please ?...
!mistake
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
waxen spire
are we -always- pressing rupture after flagellate even if rupture is up?
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
short radish
are we -always- pressing rupture after flagellate even if rupture is up?
if you have < 20 seconds or something
you can overwrite in that condition
because you dont want it to run out during your burst
and have to reapply
waxen spire
if you have < 20 seconds or something
makes sense. if you have plenty i assume you just hit eviscerate instead?
barren wolf
Gallywix is a really fun boss
yeah its really fun when mechanics happen every 20 seconds or so
between those its not very
alpine wraith
just woke up big ggg now free to play PoE2
lucid jackal
Well 
Idk if I'm doing that
I'm going out tomorrow and then idk, I'll see if theres any cool builds by day 2-5
I'm so negative on PoE 2 still
waxen spire
im coming from outlaw learning sub and between burst windows it truly does feel like my ankles are broken š
azure notch
do !log
Is it the type of thing random ppl might look at at some point?
Also is more mastery or.more vers better for sub?
cobalt vector
mast is better esp in cds. But u get a decent amnt of both. Funny enough vers flask is often better than mast so that ur pot gives u mast during cds.
limpid sage
are we -always- pressing rupture after flagellate even if rupture is up?
Itās a 1% dps increase to only use ruptures when flag is less than 10 sec cd left according to APL
short radish
Is it the type of thing random ppl might look at at some point?
yeah someone will look at it eventually
hopefully
jaunty heath
Itās a 1% dps increase to only use ruptures when flag is less than 10 sec cd lef...
If you have decent tier wrecks yes, otherwise no
slate hedge
So we make sure that in fight, when Flagellation & S Blades coming off CD, we need 2x Shadow Dance and 2x Symbols are ready/available to be used?
waxen spire
1x shadow dance and change are fine because of the cdr you'll get from the first one
short radish
So we make sure that in fight, when Flagellation & S Blades coming off CD, we ne...
roughly 1.5 dances/symbols
slate hedge
yea makes sense, this is something that i am not paying too much attention
if I give you a log from a HC raid would it be easy/fast to give me some feedback on my mistakes?
short radish
do a !log and someone (probably) will look at it
slate hedge
!log
umbral topaz
!wa
wicked joltBOT
remote shuttle
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
limpid sage
If you have decent tier wrecks yes, otherwise no
ye donno how to check for that in the APL so I feelycraft that part
lavish iris
!wa
wicked joltBOT
brittle plinth
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
tulip gorge
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
potent summit
Mh seems even if you have every key on +13 you wonāt get invites for +14
alpine wraith
you class has lack of red tones as a melee
midnight geyser
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals of during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
potent summit
you class has lack of red tones as a melee
Ya like every season 1-3 specs are just locked. In all 13 I did I were ahead of unholy dks. But well itās meta slave in pugs I guess
alpine wraith
yea it happens too
trail idol
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
cerulean stream
!up
wicked joltBOT
potent summit
I just donāt get why one class is so strong damage wise and has a brezz or a bloodlust. Kinda have the feeling thatās the problem.
alpine wraith
m+ has always been kinda broken one way or another
be it on cc dmg or other things
hazy breach
This season is weird because you dont really need much survivability, relative to other seasons
Priest can just shield you for 15M and you wont get oneshot
alpine wraith
also give you dr
crimson meteor
hey i was wondering, if you use flask of alchemical chaos do you get all the secondary stats from tempered potion or does it take into consideration the current stats you're gaining from chaos and consider it as a tempered flask
hazy breach
You get all 4 yes
dense torrent
Ya like every season 1-3 specs are just locked. In all 13 I did I were ahead of ...
You can beat a fotm dk maybe but real dk burst is not real. Friend peaked 35 mil on CB first pull
tulip gorge
how much dps do I lose if I don't do the backstab thing in dance?
potent summit
Ya I know I just win against those dks cause they are bad. Thatās kinda the problem bad players get carried by their class
dense torrent
Meanwhile sub get nerfed 4 times
tulip gorge
fuck
lilac stag
you should be doing it
tulip gorge
I have to unlearn my muscle memory
lilac stag
hit a dummy for a bit. Wonāt take long
candid raven
Do you backstab every dance?
Coz in the wowhead guide in the opener section it is only done once in the first dance
Oh it's only with premed. I'm dumb
potent summit
is this normal in damage spread? It was a +14 Dark Key
paper iron
Do you backstab every dance?
u dont backstab if you dont have FW and you re not behind the target, other than that, u can backstab every dance
best exemple is sprocket, where u re sometimes forced to be in front of the boss
limpid sage
best exemple is sprocket, where u re sometimes forced to be in front of the boss
gloomblade tech 5head
alpine wraith
and btw the FW rule is because sometimes you are holding coup
paper iron
well
limpid sage
(unironically)
alpine wraith
and you get to like 10+ sht
alpine wraith
so you want FW for when you sec tech then coup
limpid sage
because it was a 3% increase with gloomblade over rupture talent when striking from the front when I tested it
and only .1% loss when perma behind
alpine wraith
gloomblade is a funny one
candid raven
best exemple is sprocket, where u re sometimes forced to be in front of the boss
Why are you force to be in front? I'm still stuck in Stix hell
paper iron
the only non funny thing as rogue is when assa becomes an envenom spam bot
paper iron
Why are you force to be in front? I'm still stuck in Stix hell
because on sprocket you have polarities, which mean you ll sometimes be forced to be on the side of the actual tank, whihc means in front of the boss
hazy breach
u still need to be behind for FW with gloomblade
It was at the start of the season atleast
Havent bothered to check again
alpine wraith
i havent talented gloomblade either for a while too so didnt check
hazy breach
You could also storm
alpine wraith
but yea basically only thing you gin is from shadow amps not bothering with armor and the dmg
limpid sage
gonna cook up a build that loads all dmg into gloomblade
hazy breach
the only non funny thing as rogue is when assa becomes an envenom spam bot
The bleed build for assa just wants to sit above 50% for sanguine on ST 
limpid sage
wet noodle in cds
paper iron
The bleed build for assa just wants to sit above 50% for sanguine on ST <:ez:587...
not on ST tho, right?
hazy breach
Yes
candid raven
The bleed build for assa just wants to sit above 50% for sanguine on ST <:ez:587...
Don't tell me that. I already feel like I go afk when I play bleed on st boss fights.
paper iron
i m just learning ST assa for mug since ystday
hazy breach
Don't tell me that. I already feel like I go afk when I play bleed on st boss fi...
? bleed has significantly more APM than the others
Because of blindside
limpid sage
ok gloomblade requires being behind still
limpid sage
wack
hazy breach
Ye raid build silly
paper iron
candid raven
i m just learning ST assa for mug since ystday
You don't play bleed on mug zee
paper iron
yea i dont even play build in keys cuz idk assa ST damage is already trash and i dont wanna lose kb, but maybe that could be a thing to consider
i need to do sims
candid raven
? bleed has significantly more APM than the others
True, I kind of feel afk on every talent build, when I play Assa in keys on st bosses.
paper iron
i mean even the single target which is probably the biggest energy gain has a lot of downtime
it s just assa
but it s less afk than sub outside of cds
limpid sage
@hazy breach I tried to find out how to check for winning streak stacks in the APL but didn't find anything that helped me. Do you perhaps know how? D:
slate marlin
The bleed build for assa just wants to sit above 50% for sanguine on ST <:ez:587...
dont tell me optimal play is to only mutilate when at 200 energy or something
paper iron
look at them rogues afking
hazy breach
should just be buff.winning_streak_subtlety.stack
candid raven
but it s less afk than sub outside of cds
Yea, but I like the burst style of sub. It's not really a hard apm thing, more a feely thing.
limpid sage
I tried that but didn't work
hazy breach
dont tell me optimal play is to only mutilate when at 200 energy or something
Thats how you keep over 150 yes 
limpid sage
but maybe I put in a typo
slate marlin
Thats how you keep over 150 yes <:kek:365510869557444628>
sir i dont want to believe you
paper iron
assa really cooking
slate marlin
whispyrs dream, 100% of pooling uptime
limpid sage
should just be buff.winning_streak_subtlety.stack
ye worked - I accidentally wrote stacks instead of stack ._.
slate marlin
assa gonna be slowmode again if it happens
whispyr dream, pooling even on discord
paper iron
yea i overestimate kb
i still think we re in the 2 first weeks of armidrasil
Dslice
and 10 targets 1mn
intresting actually
imma try that thing
hazy breach
Sims also doesnt account for demise
Which is like 45% stronger on bleed
So thats another 2-3%
hazy breach
Sudden demise cant be modeled accurately in sims, so its not in
(the pops that is, the +15% bleed damage is in)
paper iron
so if i go, let s say cinderbrew, can we say 6.3% of people are smarter than 93.3% of players?
alpine wraith
likely not as cut and dry
hazy breach
Opinions usually take a while to shift. Its only recently when bleeds been doing good in sims
alpine wraith
but demise on bleeds is gnarly
slate marlin
i still think we re in the 2 first weeks of armidrasil
"kingsbane damage reduced by 20%"
hazy breach
Because it was previously kinda unthinkable to not have KB, so a lot of things in the sim was tied to KB and wouldnt function well without it
paper iron
they capped it lower in stacks and stuff
alpine wraith
yea
paper iron
as well as reducing damage, and all that shitty stuff, kingsbane became plebsbane
alpine wraith
like the sub change after killing our tier set
they are scared of big numbers
but blood beast can pop for 356m
paper iron
i laughed so much btw
uhdk / lock taking PI for 10 years no changes
assa using PI BOOM NERFED INSTA WTF U CANT HAVE FUN U MELEE PIG
hazy breach
Hilariously though, the bleed assa build is actually one of the best PI targets on ST
paper iron
alpine wraith
deathmarked bleeds with lots of mastery crit
suddenly meets extra ticks
but i still find silly
slate marlin
Hilariously though, the bleed assa build is actually one of the best PI targets ...
in execute or out of it too?
paper iron
wait
alpine wraith
all their dots
paper iron
are u telling me eleem
alpine wraith
still ticks less than our rupture
hazy breach
Bleed sucks on ST
paper iron
hazy breach
So no
alpine wraith
like MM hunts
with PI they get silly
but not the best %
but just do more dmg than anything
because rng
hazy breach
Like devs default profile gets +160k dps from having PI on them (so like 2.9>3.05)
bleed build gets like +140k from having PI on ST (so like 2>2.14)
Just bleeds ticking faster and more sanguine during deathmark is good
Kingsbane caps so quickly and doesnt scale with haste, and you get the same amount of envenoms either way so regular build doesnt care much about PI
autumn flame
Dev got buffed
steady dagger
I level my sub rogue and all I see is my spec channel talking about other classes
im in shambles
alpine wraith
dont worry rogue is very good at just existing
really good players play it
even if it does nothing special
sadly raid is also not super tuned to need our 3.6% dr
mug zee kinda was but it got nerfed a bit
void ocean
attro not stacking, right
alpine wraith
dont tell anyone
paper iron
cant wait for the
Reworked atrophic : Giving 3% dr against the poisoned targets > Now give 1% dr from aoe effects for the poisoned targets
golden totem
dont tell anyone
??
vale pine
dont tell anyone
its not a big problem, people will always bring a rogue to reduce their incomming damage w/e if its needed or not
void ocean
cause theres always that one guy who refuses to reroll š
hazy breach
Balance is rarely that bad that fotm rerolling is required, people tend to vastly overestimate the differences between specs
Most people are gonna do better on something theyre comfortable with rather than something theyve just rerolled to
Especially at non-damage related things
solar geode
class balancing isnt bad but player mentality is š
void ocean
I just like how fdk, even tho it never rly had a complicated rotation, managed to get even simpler one this patch and its still high dps
solar geode
tier list terrance slave to the meta
void ocean
and now i feel it will suffer next 5 years bc of that
strange chasm
Is bleed sin really kinda starting to blast
tulip gorge
I just like how fdk, even tho it never rly had a complicated rotation, managed t...
Did they actually change anything for fdk this season?
void ocean
Did they actually change anything for fdk this season?
well rotation is now just oblit -> fs -> oblit -> fs š
tulip gorge
So you donāt play breath anymore
tulip gorge
Do you still play deathbringer?
void ocean
i think its like 55-45 in favour of just oblit/shatter
breath build is with db
oblit/shatter is rider
tulip gorge
Damn dps DK is completely braindead this season huh
void ocean
yea
like literally u spend rime only when frost fever is about to expire
everything else just switch between oblit and fs
tulip gorge
Sounds like garbage
void ocean
what i find sad is that its dual wield oblit
meaning u dont get those huge 2h oblit crits that rip your screen apart š
tulip gorge
Donāt you also get less procs with 2h tho
spice matrix
hey guys dae play Paladin
steady dagger
void ocean
well of all bosses, sub seems the worst rogue spec on all bosses except Rik, and it seems the worst in keys too
so some love wouldnt be the worst idea I guess
I dont mind respecing to assa in raid but Id rly hate to go assa in keys too
warm marlin
sub is probably the best rogue spec on rik, stix, bandit, gally
hazy breach
and not like 5% on BP
If they buff bp by a substantial amount its completely over
void ocean
(tho Im not a key pusher, doing only 10s, but still, I dont mind topping overall once in a while) š
hazy breach
A big BP buff would literally brick deathstalker
void ocean
sub is probably the best rogue spec on rik, stix, bandit, gally
on gally? u sure bout that
warm marlin
gally less certain as I havent watched much
void ocean
for mythic not enough logs yet and for hc we r like bottom 5 I think
for Stix M all 3 rogue specs perform very well but sub still seems the worst
warm marlin
it's really just that sub can do jobs that are important in this raid that the other specs can't, it fills the niches required very well (except on mugzee where assa gaps it). if anything I would say sub could probably use an eviscerate buff as the pure single target is a bit low
alpine wraith
its not a big problem, people will always bring a rogue to reduce their incommin...
was talking more than diff rogues atros stack
somewhat
autumn flame
Maybe not a big buff but reverting the energy cost increase on storm would be nice
That change felt weird
golden totem
Yea probably not a huge diff but I agree it still feels weird to not be able to spam storm while being gcd locked
twilit phoenix
make goremaw's bite great again
autumn flame
Like sure we don't do DMG outside dance but slap on the rough energy costs and its just joever
solemn lance
can we start a petition to change rupture's name to something more accurate? Papercut? Scrape? Boo boo?
twilit phoenix
can we start a petition to change rupture's name to something more accurate? Pap...
sub rupture does more damage than sin rupture btw
in cds
hazy breach
sub rupture does more damage than sin rupture btw
Not with bleed build
void ocean
can we start a petition to change rupture's name to something more accurate? Pap...
Sectumsempra š
paper iron
sub rupture does more damage than sin rupture btw
and i u had darkbrew to that
sub rupture hits like a real truck
actual 20 wheels truck
sly shore
!wa
wicked joltBOT
dawn cobalt
should bp be higher? or anything else? 13 mechagon
2.4 m dps at 660 ilvl, feel like im doing something wrong š
open coyote
should bp be higher? or anything else? 13 mechagon
nimble flurry is usually much higher for me, maybe you're using black powder too much
this was from a priory 10 i did
swift tinsel
Depends on how your tank is pulling
short aurora
idk this is new
i kinda like to see the dmg split in average
so judging based of this, looks good
swift tinsel
Take with a grain of salt, that's from 24 logs and some are from the same player
dawn cobalt
fair, some indication i guess. ty!
just feels like my dam falls of a cliff from 10s to 12-13+
but i guess that's sub in general
sick horizon
Im sure its been asked many times and im very sorry for asking again but we always run dagger/dagger and never dagger/slow weapons right?
hazy breach
Yes, you lose like 10% of all of your energy and combo point generation if you run a non-dagger
Since shadow techniques are tied to auto attack speed
brittle echo
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
ember hound
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vestal escarp
dreamy badger
should bp be higher? or anything else? 13 mechagon
Spread looks alright, just low overall, flurry could be a bit higher, there shouldnt be much bp in workshop
uncut shuttle
do the opener pictures in the subtlety faq channel just not work?
wild hornet
wdym
uncut shuttle
They just loading constantly for me or just show like they dont exist. I restarted my discord to check if it was just me
humble frigate
should bp be higher? or anything else? 13 mechagon
Where were you before the gauntlet? Lots of tanks fuck up the gauntlet with shields
Priory really isnāt a comparable dungeon either. Priory is closer to flood or brew than mech
hazy breach
do the opener pictures in the subtlety faq channel just not work?
Opener picutures? 
The sub FAQ channel only links to the guides
jaunty umbra
he means these i think
alpine wraith
kidna
hazy breach
We should probably get rid of those, they havent been kept up to date
alpine wraith
the ones from last expansion
uncut shuttle
he means these i think
yeah, where should I be looking to instead?
uncut shuttle
ok ty
vale pine
We should probably get rid of those, they havent been kept up to date
they are archived, so don't think anyone rly looks at them
tho we can delte them if people are super confused, its justt he first tiem someone actually mentions it ^^
lilac stag
well of all bosses, sub seems the worst rogue spec on all bosses except Rik, and...
I think even Rik is up for debate
void ocean
I think even Rik is up for debate
wouldnt go that far
lilac stag
both sub and assa look good with good add spawns.
outlaw can target swap way quicker
for the rng shitters
lucid jackal
on gally? u sure bout that
100%
Wcl statistics page is shit stop using it to make evaluations
void ocean
why is it shit
lucid jackal
Because it doesn't actually tell you what spec is best
lucid jackal
It barely even tells you what specs do the most damage
hazy breach
Like on mugzee, damage during p1 is irrelevant. Intermission+p2 damage is whats going to kill the boss
lucid jackal
Or remember that outlaw log that was the best stix pull by far
Wcl stats page would say outlaw is the best spec in the game on that fight by far
But it wasn't even the best rogue spec. There was just an insane strat they did
void ocean
well not if u shuffle through %
i dont just look at max
i check all % till like 50
and see if i can find a pattern
how statistics shifts with ilvl etc
lucid jackal
Why would I do this
Why wouldn't I just, if I wanted to, look at actual rankings
And see how each of the specs actually perform against other rogue specs
Or I could just use my brain
Wcl will never tell you sin is the best rogue spec on mugzee
If not one of the best melee on that fight overall
void ocean
i get bored sometimes š
hazy breach
Arms probably better, but its def close
lucid jackal
Arms probably better, but its def close
Eh
hazy breach
Sub p2 damage is oof though
lucid jackal
I think spatter makes it better
hazy breach
Ye its spatter on adds VS a little bit more boss dps
lucid jackal
"you stop damage" better than not having enough
I was top spatter damage other than warlocks and I never hit them a single time
hazy breach
I was top spatter damage other than warlocks and I never hit them a single time
Remote gooning
lilac stag
splatter is so good
paper iron
i love how this channel went from
sub best rogue spec to outlaw is doing so much damage wtf to spatter is just insane go assa
lucid jackal
U play sin on 1 fight
lilac stag
sub best rogue spec to outlaw is doing so much damage wtf to spatter is just ins...
it's always been good. look at ovi. assa getting ST buffed certainly helped its cause
paper iron
i have worse challenge hacha : No dooming OR off topic in outlaw for more than 10mn
alpine wraith
imagine the FUNNEL
paper iron
alpine wraith
oh wait
lucid jackal
Sin might be ok on gally as well but
Shields on pull might be pain for no reason
Plus u don't have damage for adds
lucid jackal
U need to kill shield on pull
That's kinda the only dps check
Boss just dies if u don't die
lilac stag
craft that longsword
alpine wraith
finally a challange to my arcane mage
lucid jackal
so you mean outlaw boss
Then shields don't die
hazy breach
They might buff sub, but im not entirely convinced. Wouldnt surprise me if theyve found that people dont like playing it so theyd prefer to keep assa stronger
lucid jackal
They might buff sub, but im not entirely convinced. Wouldnt surprise me if theyv...
Rogue will get chain buffed all season
lucid jackal
maybe make KS hit shields for 200% dmg
Well you can't cuz then you die to the stun lines
alpine wraith
then get ressed you are the big player on the team
hazy breach
Rogue will get chain buffed all season
Sure, but i think assa will get one too if sub gets one
hazy breach
Rogue will get chain buffed all season
Theyll see sub being bad in m+ and theyll buff BP again right
alpine wraith
i do find funny how they made spatter work on you and target
they will buff rupture and builders
lilac stag
Theyll see sub being bad in m+ and theyll buff BP again right
followed by Tornado Buffs
alpine wraith
or make goremaw cleave finally
lucid jackal
I think just like last season, rogue will get chain buffed
hazy breach
And then it turns out if they buff BP by any substantial amount deathstalker just gets completely bricked
twilit phoenix
goremaw's bite will be so based
lilac stag
buff rupture kekw
hazy breach
Stops using eviscerate on ST, stops using rupture in aoe, stops using sectech in big aoe
alpine wraith
literal person that did things on it got fired or kept harrasing the ladies
yea just bp
lilac stag
just dont take sectech
alpine wraith
sub becomes a ret pala
twilit phoenix
BP as main spender would go super hard
hazy breach
just dont take sectech
If BP gets like a 30-35% buff unironically yes
Atleast for aoe
lucid jackal
Aoe build
lilac stag
idk if they understand why no one wants to play DS as sub
hazy breach
So if thats what happening deathstalker is gonna turn out even dumber
alpine wraith
they will buff all plague dmg by 60% again as sub
ez fix
go next
mark gonna hit for almost 3m
hazy breach
Cancelaura darkest night on aoe so you can continue to BP and get the mark damage
alpine wraith
cant even cancelaura that shiz
lilac stag
lol
hazy breach
Still gotta do it once every so often for snd