subtlety

[alpine wraith]

[vagrant thorn]

i'm so happy echoing reprimand is gone, i've been saying for years to remove it! 😛

[slate lantern]

#justiceforER

[languid trench]

thanks

[dense lichen]

Only use cold blood with SecTech while in Shadow Dance and Symbols of Death. I’d recommend if you’re just starting out, treat Cold Blood like a 1.5 min cd and only use it in ur Flag /Shadow Blade window

[vagrant thorn]

although to be fair, tornado USED to be clumsy because you had to integrate it with dance and not screw up a fast paced combo, if you now just use it during the down phase to casually spread some bleeds it should be quite easy right

[hazy breach]

Its still ass

Because it costs so much energy and feels odd

[tepid trellis]

Only thing sub needs is a slight single target dps buff, and for them to remove Shadowed finishers dependency on FW

[hazy breach]

The reason its not used with cds anymore is because we have shadowcraft, so if you use it during symbols youll get refunds which you will immediately waste by having the next tornado storm come in

The spell just doesnt work with the rest of our kit

[vagrant thorn]

makes sense

[languid trench]

cool i see lots of rupture in logs of rogue rupture black powder is good in aoe situation ?

[dense lichen]

Yes, rupture when you’re not in Shadow Dance and especially when the tank is still gathering mobs. It’s your cheapest finisher so it’s very efficient for CDR. Black Powder is only better than Evis if you’re engaging more than 7 targets

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[glass jasper]

I find my self pretty much never using black powder for aoe, prio damage on dangerous mobs just feels much more important.

[vagrant thorn]

once for DM? 🙂

[languid trench]

oh ok cool thank you

[dense lichen]

I agree. I play with a Boomkin in my m+ group so I don’t try to compete with padding numbers in aoe anyway lol

Unless it’s the first pull in Brew or Workshop

[dense lichen]

The Weak Aura list above has a simple target tracker that will let you know how many enemies are in range so you can decide when to switch between Evis and Black Powder

[languid trench]

Ok thanks

[glass jasper]

Yea same here!

[languid trench]

For now he look nice to play but more complex than outlaw haha

[glass jasper]

It's not too bad, sit target dummies for 5 hours and you should be good

Get that muscle memory

[dense lichen]

Honestly, once you commit the opener to muscle memory it’s pretty chill to play. You don’t have to worry about random procs or manage dots so for me personally I find I pay attention to what’s actually happening in a fight a lot more than with the other two specs.

[slate lantern]

sub is more straight forward than outlaw, but rewards more fight/dungeon knowledge plus you need to have your exact opener/burst down to do good damage

[lucid jackal]

Sub is low key the easiest rogue spec

[vagrant thorn]

elaborate!

[dense lichen]

Shhh! Don’t tell anyone!

I like ppl thinking we’re big brained

[lucid jackal]

The spec has like, 3 sets of rules to just remember like a script

the rest is just press backstab reapply rupture

Here is all of sub rogue

[vagrant thorn]

but doesn't that only get you 85% of the way there? I want pink parses

i think it's harder to get a pink parse as sub than fury

[slate lantern]

more turbo sweaters and less people on sub

[glass jasper]

Hardest part is to resist sending that extra dance you know you should hold, but it just sits there and calls for your keypress

[lucid jackal]

On most fights u dont need to actually do any amount of thinking to go from a 85 to a 99

I mean even fights like rik reverb arent really "playing good" checks

its "does my guild suck/not have a ww" check

[vagrant thorn]

as a pugger the worst feeling is when the only monk leaves the raid

welp, there goes my parse

[willow fulcrum]

I been sending SecTec with Symbols in between Flag/SB cooldowns, without Dance when it's too close. That's fine yeah? (single target)

[glass jasper]

If you will have enough symbols for burst

It should be fine

And will have sectec up again for burst also

So maybe not if you're 10-15 sec away from burst

[willow fulcrum]

yeah it's usually if I see I got about 30 secs until burst.

[lucid jackal]

ppl just overthink this spec

Cuz they think they have to mega mind it

[vagrant thorn]

lol 😛

[alpine wraith]

yea just get luckyt

get big crits

dont thing feel

[glass jasper]

For raid its pretty straightgforward and scripted I'd say

[alpine wraith]

still be 10th on details

no worries

[glass jasper]

M+ takes knowlegde and practice

[alpine wraith]

always show me

[lucid jackal]

What knowledge and practice do u need in keys lol

ITs the same set of rules

[vagrant thorn]

the best thing about this spec is when I see the tank gathering up a massive horde and I have everything ready I start laughing with anticipation of MEGABURST it feels so good -,-

[alpine wraith]

not really many places to get tfd on or get extra superchargers

[lucid jackal]

The knowledge is just "make sure you dont overlap cooldowns in low keys

[alpine wraith]

or know if you want to rupture more or less

[glass jasper]

To make sure you have big bursts for the packs you want it, pretty much

[tepid trellis]

the way i usually see the spec is that its a research spec more than a gameplay spec, if you understand the fight timers then the spec plays itself

[alpine wraith]

also look at your teammates and cds cadence

better if you can talk to them

worse if not

[lucid jackal]

theres like no research this tier

[alpine wraith]

dont need overall

just need to time the key

[vagrant thorn]

so would you literally wait and hold your cds for 1 pull to avoid overlapping? 🙂

[lucid jackal]

If ur just pugging 10s, 90% of the playerbase doesnt do damage and u can just cannablize their damage and it doesnt matter

If ur doing push keys, like actual high end keys, shit just lives forever and u dont even need to worry about overlapping

[tepid trellis]

if you wanna max out dmg, there still is

[lucid jackal]

What "research" are u doing on oab

[vagrant thorn]

so either way there's no problem basically 😛

[tepid trellis]

no class in this game can out snipe sub if you line up your cds so your 2nd dance sectech lands when they spawn

[lucid jackal]

the research to delay symbols and dance

[tepid trellis]

you do realize that 99% of the playerbase wont make that connection right?

you are thinking as a person playing at the level you are

[dense lichen]

Someone said the other day but the hardest part about Sub is just resisting the urge to pop SD and Symbols when Flag is almost off CD

[lucid jackal]

It really only matters when ur doing like, weekly 10s with geared players

[tepid trellis]

the masses dont follow that

[lucid jackal]

like doing 10s with my guild on sub are becoming pain

Unless they are on rat alts

[glass jasper]

@lucid jackal that would be correct

[dense lichen]

https://youtu.be/KbrMkfXo7gQ?si=s5ayaz9ceRRFMV9q

ur not wrong, average Sub player is just pressing everything off CD

[tepid trellis]

i mean i know

ive done waaaay to many log/vods reviews

[vale pine]

can confirm

[dense lichen]

If you actually look at guides or come to this discord for advice, congratulations, you’re in the top 20% of players lol

[pastel rampart]

its ok sub will be interesting when dust comes back next patch 🙏

[tepid trellis]

like sure, if you raid at WR 100 or less, you know to delay stuff after 1-2 pulls on a fight

but somebody at wr 500-1000

wont make that connection

unless you tell them

[slate lantern]

shout out to the aug in my trade chat guild of s3 df who was <5% parse on every heroic fight, we tell him to check out the evoker discord to figure out what hes doing wrong, says its too much work and gquits.

[tepid trellis]

in alot of cases

[dense lichen]

Many such cases!

[wild hornet]

i hit a 85 log on outlaw with sub gear and i was relatively close to the mistweaver

[glass jasper]

Played aug last season and can confirm it's too much work. Excelsheetgaming, and however much prep you do, and your parse still depends on others playing their CDs correctly

[wild hornet]

should i be worried

[slate lantern]

log on keys?

[wild hornet]

raid

[vagrant thorn]

the reviewed rogue is now rank 1 on his server 🙂

[wild hornet]

i would play outlaw on keys if blade wasnt capped

[vocal crypt]

!plater

[chrome palm]

!log

[dense lichen]

Target cap doesn’t matter much in keys like ToP or Workshop but I wouldn’t be caught dead as Outlaw in Cinderbrew

[slate lantern]

sub for first room, run out and switch

[wild hornet]

Cinderbrew outlaw is like sitting in the cuck chair

[wild hornet]

Well my tanks do big pulls later too

[vagrant thorn]

now imagine how I feel on my fury warr in there

[worldly tinsel]

Hey everyone, new to sub after maining Sin. I macro'd cold blood and Secret, should I also macro Symbols and dance together?

[vagrant thorn]

I do

but also keep just symbols separate

[dense lichen]

Have two SecTech keybinds, one with macro’d with Cold Blood one without

[worldly tinsel]

So you'll always want symbols when you use dance, but there will be times when dance isn't up and you'll still want sybols

[vagrant thorn]

what are your hotkeys for both these sectechs?

[dense lichen]

I play ESDF so my keybinds are pretty weird ngl

But it’s T for SecTech and Shift + T for CB SecTech

[vagrant thorn]

aha so that would be R for me

;D

[short owl]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1355225973259243590/image.png?ex=67e8280a&is=67e6d68a&hm=8c0e870467f0a679ef21f08f2b6659d4d59a1c849f113ad59f4519211b60d15d&

[rustic pond]

for me sectech is E and CB sectech is Shift E

[worldly tinsel]

excellent, tyty

[vagrant thorn]

the funny thing about this is like saying "an astronaut only needs to know how to operate a spaceship and 2 other things"

[dense lichen]

It’s actually the other way around. If you don’t have first dance buff up, your first SD during burst will be shorter than your Symbols buff, so you want to be able to activate them individually to maximize uptime

But there are also situation where you may want to use Symbols and SecTech without SD up, but I usually only do that at the end of a boss fight or m+ key.

[vagrant thorn]

ideally you would never macro anything and execute everything perfectly like a robot, but it is what it is 😛

gotta streamline the gameplay a lil bit

[rustic pond]

yea macro are a great help to get into sub. And once you have the feel you can min max , even if you have to rework muscle memory

[twilit phoenix]

[worldly tinsel]

Different keybinds for Backstab and Shadowstrike for macabre then too, yeah?

[vagrant thorn]

yep

[azure mauve]

teach me

give me more info sempai

[glass jasper]

V for regular sectech and shift-T for CB sectec. Yes I'm strange

[alpine wraith]

use sec tech around 0.7 as things are going to spawn

they spawn then get OMEGATRUCKED

others do dmg but you already ate millions off them

[glass jasper]

What spawns are we talking about?

[swift tinsel]

bombs, reel assistants

barrels

insert add here

[azure mauve]

oh ye i know that, im more asking how @tepid trellis plays OAB

[alpine wraith]

think you can watch his vods but im not 100% sure if he has them uo

[valid mason]

I macro backstab to dance instead, though if you do this you shouldn't macro symbols into the same macro, because you sometimes have to hit it twice to get a backstab

[azure mauve]

ye ty ❤️

[vale pine]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[vale pine]

i use this

[vagrant thorn]

then what's shift-V?

[torn sable]

Does this line read the way it's written, or is it supposed to mean "If all enemies are grouped, only apply rupture to the main target" ?

[vagrant thorn]

lol, I think it's supposed to be the way you said it 😛

[torn sable]

Yeah because the former would basically be implying that it's not worth it unless there's another target in range

But then there's an easier and less ambiguous way to write that

[alpine wraith]

you can apply rupture after cds

but you basically want to dance as soon as possible now

unless tank is grouping etc

[torn sable]

sup dino

[alpine wraith]

yo

[vagrant thorn]

tricks are to good, I love the fact that I can just abuse mobs while they run after the tank

[alpine wraith]

i dont think i've ran tricks once this expansion

[vagrant thorn]

omfg

🙂

[alpine wraith]

blackjack is just too good

[vagrant thorn]

and what amazing advantage do you gain with this blasphemy?

[torn sable]

yeah that's what I was thinking, so that sentence should read the way that I assumed then right?

But also, you're saying don't even bother with a single rupture if cds are up?

[alpine wraith]

you do one

as you already have snd running

you strike flag rupture

then dance

and even if you dont have snd you will get it on the first evis anyway

[vale pine]

i hope its easy to understand

but basically, if you have your targets grouped

you want to send cooldowns immidiatly

so you would only rupture once

but if your tank is still gathering mobs

[torn sable]

Yeah so it is the way I assumed

[vale pine]

you might use a few ruptures

[torn sable]

For others who are as picky about language as I am it might be better to reverse the word order in that sentence then

[vale pine]

and slightly delay your cooldowns to hit all targets

[torn sable]

Yeah that part was clear

[vale pine]

if you have ideas about better wording, any suggestion is welcome

[torn sable]

(I'm genuinely not trying to be difficult or anything)

from

Only apply Rupture to the main target if all enemies are grouped.

to

If all enemies are grouped, only apply rupture to the main target.

on wowhead under multi target > explanation

between rupture and shuriken storm

[severe vapor]

What's the diff between backstab and no backstab?

[slate lantern]

0.5%

[vale pine]

sounds good

[vale pine]

it becomes more relevant with the new 4 set bonus, without its fairly irrelevant

alright, updated

[paper iron]

101% mastery unbuffed unlocked

Flag + house

[alpine wraith]

big

[crimson tree]

is it worth to use a treacherous transmitter at 619 ilvl?

[prisma ridge]

!feint

[wicked jolt]

Atrophic poison/feint in Raid: > Click to open Sheet <

[hazy breach]

If you dont have any other stat on-use probably

But id just recommend getting the pvp trinket, its really easy to get

[austere zodiac]

!sims

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[viral phoenix]

is it optimal to send sec tech second on non cd dances?

[alpine wraith]

there is not much of a diff if you use coup first

but ideally you still use sec tech first

[viral phoenix]

Why is that? for the naked sec tech cooldown?

[alpine wraith]

well in dances what would you prefer to buff 1 sec tech

or 3 or 4 evis

also makes getting a coup in dance more likely

[viral phoenix]

Ah okay that makes sense

[candid raven]

My guild recommended me to use Plater. I've just used ElvUI before. Can anybody recommend a profile to go off of? I don't wanna bother with configuring everything myself and much rather use a prepared profile and tweak it if needed.

[solemn creek]

Quazzi or something

I like it

Cev plater is good for rogue too

[soft stump]

How is Sub on Stix and OAB?

[vale pine]

rly good on stix

[soft stump]

Cuz like I'm not a fan of assassination on those fights lol

[lucid jackal]

Really good on oab

Sin is better on mugzee by far, gally is either or I think

[viral phoenix]

for bandit do you hold cds for a few seconds on pull for the coins?

i see the 2nd set is held to 1:40 for ads i believe and then its off cd?

[lucid jackal]

Cd's on cd

Push back symbols for when reel assistants come out

Rather than on cd

[dense lichen]

I'm a big fan of Jundies' profile but Quazi is quite popular as well

Jundies has some neat features like showing if and when your kick will be off CD during a cast

[candid raven]

I picked Jundies, but I wanna turn off Friendly Nameplates

But it keeps turning it back on

[hazy breach]

shift-v by default

[candid raven]

Yea I know, but I turn off "Show Friendly Nameplates" in Plater, but it keeps turning back on

It says in the info box, that it is a cvar in the profile, but Idk how to change it

Like after 10s or so it just turns itself back on 😦

[narrow oasis]

LMAO

Dinged 80 like 3 hrs ago

[vale pine]

congrats

[bleak night]

in options there should be a tab called Auto, make sure all of these are disabled

[candid raven]

Thanks! That fixed it

[viral phoenix]

do you guys run elusiveness on stix

i feel like i have to for the tesla power coil shit but cheats nice to have

[solar geode]

why's it so hard to get into a group ☹️

[lucid jackal]

Because you are competing against like 50 other ppl applying

[twilit phoenix]

Wrong class for pugging king

[warm marlin]

does that actually do dmg

[lucid jackal]

I have no issues with pugs but I'm like 665 ilvl

[warm marlin]

I swear it never did anything to me

[solar geode]

do people hate rogues......

[lucid jackal]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[twilit phoenix]

Guy gets carried by guildies

[jaunty heath]

No lust no Rez doesn’t help in pugs

So yeah you’ll need patience

Or IO

[solar geode]

i love waiting for pugs only to die 15 times from 1 pull somehow and then the tank leaves

[jaunty heath]

Tank/healer things

They just apply and get invited 10 seconds later

[solar geode]

i miss tanking

remove assassination add tank rogue

[viral phoenix]

if I get that + fire circles and i dont cloak it off it feels like a healthpot/healthstone skill check

[pine badge]

For m+ do we spam bp on 7+ targets even during flag/blades?

[twilit phoenix]

Yep

[pine badge]

ty

[lavish rose]

i assume u still want to switch for coup right

in that scenario

[twilit phoenix]

season 3 goremaw's bite tierset gonna go so hard

[twilit phoenix]

yeah you still press coup at any target count

but you're not eviscing at 7+

unless there's some prio target and it's only 8 or 9 mobs

[bleak night]

god i hope so

[keen dome]

[median nacelle]

is funhouse lens that good?

just checked bloodmallet

[twilit phoenix]

what's the highest theoretical number of DM stacks you can have

[bleak night]

7

[hazy breach]

Like 12 or so

[twilit phoenix]

would shuriken toss give you one

[hazy breach]

If it gives combo points then it gives a stack

[twilit phoenix]

i just got 10 in a TFD window

what am I missing

[hazy breach]

Cheap shot

[twilit phoenix]

oh shit

[hazy breach]

Kidney

[twilit phoenix]

i forgot about cheap

and kidney!!!

insane

do you get an achievement for stacking up to 12

[vale pine]

shiv

[twilit phoenix]

holy shit so that's 13

13 DM stacks

[golden totem]

Gotta disenrage that bloodhorn

[vale pine]

i mean you are limited by shadow dance

so even with tfd, you can't go higher than what you can get from 10 ability uses

[twilit phoenix]

rip

blizz doesn't want us to win

no way to clip dances fast enough to have DM carry over?

[bleak night]

do it in torghast with adr

[trail ginkgo]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[trail ginkgo]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[warped zodiac]

the rogue spreadsheet was updated to have shuriken tornado be used in m+. when exactly do i press that?

[dusk nest]

+7 enemies and to apply find weakness

[warped zodiac]

in or out of dance

[molten citrus]

That’s shuriken storm not tornado, no?

Nado is diff

[lusty swan]

when should we hold cds in preperation for out 1.5min cds?

[molten citrus]

Iirc you don’t even have to run it, but I think it’s outside of CDs

[molten citrus]

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[vale pine]

tornado is a filler

so correct, outside of cooldowns

[vestal escarp]

oh slice build has changed

oh bruh

[vale pine]

the dark brew build sims higher

[molten citrus]

I’m never playing nado idgaf

[vestal escarp]

naaah not the pv one perception

[vale pine]

but if you run the first dance, it is without tornado

[vestal escarp]

[warped zodiac]

i feel like i have to play nado in cinderbrew. the pulls r too big and i simply can not keep up

[vale pine]

the first dance builds are in general better

[molten citrus]

Nado isn’t necessarily going to help you keep up

[vale pine]

dark brew is something you can test in dungeons with low amounts of oppotunities to utialize the first dance

[west kite]

i literally came here to ask if tornado was worth playing for cinder

also feel so far behind

[vestal escarp]

i'll just wait the next bittersweet sub talents update 😌

[lusty swan]

just in aoe in general i feel ret just dwarfs me in overall

[molten citrus]

One talent swap isn’t gonna change that

[warped zodiac]

skill issue. im just bad. i will get better

thanks fellas

[west kite]

its not just you bud.

[muted harness]

I'm returning to rogue for the first time in like 4 expacs, can someone explain why you shadow strike here towards end in 7+ targets

#10 in this

[lusty swan]

dance mecab

prolly

[muted harness]

ah makes sense if so

[vale pine]

you only use storm once

[molten citrus]

You only storm once in CDs

[vale pine]

you use storm to spread find weakness

[molten citrus]

To spread Find Weakness

[muted harness]

for the weakness spread?

ya

[vale pine]

you only do so because 7+ is the breakpoint to use black powder

[muted harness]

so it's just to refresh the find weakness just like the first storm?

or reapply rather

[lusty swan]

so because the rotten makes it 100% crit

it applies find weakness to everything

[molten citrus]

The first storm in the graphic is outside of CDs so it’s not guaranteed to spread FW

[lusty swan]

the first one before cds wont be 100% crit

[muted harness]

gotcha thanks 🙏

I will say the rogue guides are so well detailed compared to other classes it's wild lol

[lusty swan]

i feel theres so much more going on then other classes

[muted harness]

but also me returning

[vale pine]

it is to apply/refresh find weakness on all targets

[jaunty heath]

how big is wep on sub?

like I'm rocking a 626 dagger how cooked am i

[lusty swan]

weapon dmg is king

[jaunty heath]

you reckon it's like 1m overall

to go to 675

[vale pine]

mainhand weapon is a strong dps increase, offhand is probably one of the weakest item slots

[rigid hemlock]

hey, anyone know if alchemy trinket is simbait?

currently trying to figure out what to spend 3rd spark on and alchemy trinket is simming 140k dps higher than anything else

assuming seaforium is just bis for tempo?

[jaunty heath]

honestly

i feel energy starved 247

in keys

its so aids

[mighty citrus]

how would i sim then how to spend my next set of gilded best? is there kind of an upgradeimizer? 😛

or just gear compare?

[lusty swan]

in top gear you can add items and upgrade

in raidbots sim

[rigid hemlock]

sounds like rotation issue mate

[mighty citrus]

i want to know basically if its worth tospend more on my hc pieces to make them 6/6 or offhand or ring or whatever

if i just upgrade everything in topgear ofc it would take all the upgraded items no?

[jaunty heath]

idk my overall's fine

doing like 3.2m in fg with a 626 dagger

i have giga high haste too

bc outlaw gear

so idk

[vale pine]

you can upgrade in top gear

[mighty citrus]

yeah but lets say i upgrade all my pieces it will show me that every item i upgraded is better

but i have only 90 gilded

or am i just stupid an miss something here

[lusty swan]

creat gear sets

[pastel rampart]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[safe orchid]

so, in that scenario, you use storm to get find weakness and then keep using shadow strike for generation?

[vale pine]

yes

strike is noticably stronger in output, so you would only use storm once to spread find weakness

[safe orchid]

tyvm

i've been doing that wrong

I came here to ask something , read a bit, completely forgot what my question was. lol

[vale pine]

you also would use storm always as 2nd builder for rotten

because of a bug where storm would consume rotten stacks per target hit and not per use

means if you would use storm first, both rotten stacks would be wasted

[safe orchid]

oh! I don't see people using shuriken tornado in murlock io

[pastel rampart]

omg! brew back! rotten dead! everyone press tornado while we wait for shadowdust return

[fathom gazelle]

outside of flag window , do we want our sd to have sec as 1st finisher even if u have coupe proc?

[vale pine]

the first dance is typically better in dunegons, and you would not run tornado with it

it becomes relevant once you drop the first dance

[safe orchid]

ok, so any time i use symbols second generator should be storm so that i don't consume stacks per target and lose a stack of it

[pastel rampart]

on 7+ ye

[safe orchid]

I came in for one thing and i'm getting so much more info. ❤️ you're all awesome. tyvm.

[pastel rampart]

so you'd never run the brew build with tfd?

[vale pine]

you have higher trade offs

for the dark brew build

you would simply switch tornado to the first dance

the rotten build can take the first dance with lower trade offs

so while both are close in output if you use the first dance

rotten is slightly ahead and more dynamic due to the extra symbols charges

means, there is not that much reason to pick dark brew in combination with the first dance

[pastel rampart]

i see, thank you :D

[median nacelle]

might be dumb q, but whats the spell id to track the pvp trink

[woven arrow]

so with a chain pulling tank and next to no use out of the first dance, it may be better to play the new dungeon slice sim talents?
i am confused xD

[median nacelle]

tried to find on wowhead but im potato

[vale pine]

229780 should be the item id

[hazy breach]

No more jumping 3 times

[upper cosmos]

which dungeon should I convince my guild to vote for if I wanted to make sure there was plenty of decent sub loot in the pool for season 3? dawnbreaker?

[thick temple]

That's crazy bc my first time here I asked for help and I was told to roll a different class

[fathom gazelle]

dont be a cheater just like that , respect the relationship

mine is in bank

[random hare]

gz cuh

[fathom gazelle]

will never forget the moment where i died in queen just coz i was following my orb

[vale pine]

unlucky, can't confirm the deletion like this

gz tho

[thick temple]

No way the jump 3 times is the worst for y'all I hate when I pop trink, platform spawns, and the tank pulls the boss away from the platform coincidentally

[small juniper]

mythic?

[hazy breach]

Not yet

HC

[hazy breach]

No

[random hare]

wait what the hell ohouse of cards sim bis for sin too

xdd

?!?

prob way more broken on sub tho

[final holly]

Jump 3 times feels like it takes the longest to complete on average. Plus if you're moving and jumping you have way less control over your movement so if you're doing precise dodges you just have to either stand still and jump for a sec or just delay the jumps

[random hare]

@hazy breach eleem

[final holly]

That's how I felt about it anyway

[random hare]

does symbols increase trinket dmg?

or not anymore

[hazy breach]

Nop

[random hare]

o interesting they fixed alot of those things this expac

[vale pine]

it does if you run PE

damage amps don't work on trinkets since bfa

[random hare]

what is pe

[vale pine]

planed execution

[random hare]

oh right

[vale pine]

increases your crit chance during symbols

[random hare]

ye

i mean

[vale pine]

but the crit increase is global

[random hare]

lingering works on the trinket

lingering darkness

[vale pine]

so your trinket crit is also higher

lingering is a exception

[random hare]

is it implemented in simc btw?

[vale pine]

basically DF added new talents which worked on items again

[terse knoll]

/m

[vale pine]

but 10.1 did remove most of it again

[random hare]

to force use this in lingering darkness

[vale pine]

TWW introduced some new ones

[random hare]

is this in sims?

maybe the sin guys know

might be different there

oh

[vale pine]

the damage is correctly changed in sims from shadow damage sources

[random hare]

it is

use_item,name=junkmaestros_mega_magnet,if=cooldown.deathmark.remains>=30&!dot.deathmark.ticking&(!talent.deathstalkers_mark|buff.lingering_darkness.remains<10)|fight_remains<=10

[hazy breach]

I dont think the magnet does shadow damage in sims

Because it didnt matter when i tried changing it

And it should

But then again, deathstalker way behind anyway

[random hare]

ye just a sin thing im asking for

dude ngl

sub needs to get their nerfs reverted

we seemed op as hell because of transmitter when ppl had no trinkets

[vale pine]

probably, unlikely to happen

[tepid trellis]

our numbers are slowly going down

[vale pine]

statsistics also only slowly adopt to the change

because we use 2 week of data

so will be at minimum 2 weeks before people even have relevant statistics

[paper iron]

it s dooming time

[vale pine]

not rly dooming, just stating what is happening

[paper iron]

i thought rogue was good but eh, it s just going down like not scaling at all while others get buffs and stats idk how and why

🤷‍♂️

[vale pine]

scaling is a meme

[paper iron]

We re not even the best burst spec

it s bizarre

[vale pine]

i mean we got nerfed

because blizz took pre raid statistics from the old tier to balance

[paper iron]

sprocket kill of tonight, 17s first seconds

23 more seconds of lust for ll the cuties in the raid meanwhile u go down

[vale pine]

I think it is a bit of a problem

because i don't think i ever managed to have a meaningful balancing discussion

it is what it is

[paper iron]

🤷‍♂️

guess we hope for buffs in .5

i was pretty sure we were in a good spoot but with the latest patch and how the things looks, it would be very bizarre

[final holly]

Do any of the other bursty specs have as much fine control and consistency over their burst? I feel like that's worth something at least

[paper iron]

to not be buffed*

we re also kinda depending on unseen blade

[hazy breach]

Subs randomness is kinda mid

Compared to others

So its mostly fine

[hollow spear]

MM hunter seems to be a bit out of control

[paper iron]

mm is a lot of randomness

[keen trellis]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[untold tusk]

Hey I am only playing outlaw but am reaching 14/15s keys where I will be too much of a liability in meadery playing capped outlaw so I decided to check out sub again. I played a bit of sub in SL S1, but usually only played outlaw with the usual breaks of 6-12 months once game got boring.

Is there any information that kind of gets to the point on basic gearing and general rotation or should I just read up the guides linked in the FAQ channel? 😅

[plush roost]

Lowkey, learn assa, do the first pull as assa and swap to outlaw

If you wanna stick outlaw that is

[untold tusk]

is assa that much better in m+`? I thought sub was pretty good rn?

or is assa just ezpz 😄

[plush roost]

Assa is kinda king in meadery

[solemn lance]

How big does sin go on first pull. I topped out around d 25mil before dropping g off

[hazy breach]

Sin doesnt drop off

But its not 25

[plush roost]

Yeah usually end the pull at around 17-18m

[solemn lance]

But if it's 10 steady that's uge

[plush roost]

The prio dam just goes insane

[hazy breach]

Probably higher than that

[plush roost]

Like the first thug is just dead in 10 seconds with assa

[hazy breach]

Crimson tempest goes brrr

[solemn lance]

Bloodbath

[plush roost]

Thats a fury warrior ability hehe

[solemn lance]

Lol I know but the CT is just a bloodbath

[plush roost]

Ya i joke

[untold tusk]

okay so I guess I'll just check out assa then thanks 🙂

[plush roost]

Still sub is good so dont let me shy u away :p

Has its moments

[hazy breach]

I do think that sub is better than people think im m+

[untold tusk]

I mean if I gotta learn a spec I might just go with the better one

I would just start in first room and then swap back to law

[hazy breach]

But for meadery specifically assa is def the way to go

[untold tusk]

And I guess sub has changed a lot since I played it in SL S1

[plush roost]

Yeah then assa is probably the way

[untold tusk]

So its not like I would safe a lot of time because I know shit

Thanks, I'll annoy people in the assa chat then

[plush roost]

Agreed, esp in places like workshop and ToP. I compete very well

[plush roost]

Speaking of meadery, i was considering playing assa the entire dungeon and then when theres 1-2 yes men left at the end running out and swapping to sub for boss

Not sure if theres a time loss gain

[shell bramble]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Sounds like it would be a loss

Probably takes too long

[plush roost]

You think so? Sprint out (5ish seconds), swap (10ish seconds, speedshroud shadowstep upstairs (5ish seconds)

Gotta wait 10 seconds for rp so ig its like how much time do u lose not dpsing yes men

[topaz stag]

Is sub the strongest curently for raiding?

[slate marlin]

u bp at 5 fw with the dark brew tricster build right¿

[sturdy cliff]

!logs

[fallen fable]

Heya whats the most strong spec atm M+ pushing ? sub or assa ? i seen sometime ppl play on sub and assa but idk what the real thing about switch and why ?

[paper iron]

aoe / most cases assa. ST / Low target cleave sub

to do simple

so can be top workshop sub, then assa

but nuu meta nuu data nuu nuuthing yet

[fallen fable]

idk

i did priory 14 with 3.7 overall

i was first of the key

when i seen other rogues doing 4m2 ,

or even outlaw 4.8

idk how they reach that bro

its make no sens

[paper iron]

they play better

nothing else to say

not only as a player, but as a group probably

if you re first at 3.7 it means other are low low and so packs live for too long and blablabla

[paper iron]

can be the routing also

so many factors

[fallen fable]

what u see wrong on this ?

[paper iron]

i see no sham

i see no sudden demise

And i see french

[fallen fable]

sudden demise

what is that ?

[hazy breach]

Bottom right talent

[fallen fable]

i play this ?

like last sz ?

did u change guys ?

sorry to ask , iwas playing sub till now

[paper iron]

fixed

[fallen fable]

its a lot of gain ?

[paper iron]

sim it

try it

be happi

[hazy breach]

Probably better to head into #assassination pins and/or check out the updated guides

[worn ivy]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ePDRFGJcQQjh9nqmpFSWmN can someone show me how to sims stats for Dungeon Slice?

[paper iron]

also yea this is shadow small burst chat

[hazy breach]

I like bleed more

KB stinky

[paper iron]

yea but nuu boss damge then

[hazy breach]

Like 1% less

Blindside stronk

[paper iron]

just did a 13 ML, sub cds sucks

u do good on one pack, like just good not insanely good, then next pack u do nothing

[west tide]

i did a 14 a few days ago im a key guy now

[mint mica]

What's the deal with 1hr tricks...buff seems to apply sometimes but doesn't others, any idea?

[paper iron]

press tricks, will apply a 30s buff

hit a thing, will make it 1h

[worn ivy]

kinda garbage not gonna like 😄 +14 +2 ML

[warped ferry]

Omg you're a god

+2 a ML? Damn

[worn ivy]

.... was cooking fuu's builkd

stop beign sarcastic

[warped ferry]

huh? im being deadass my ass cant even get into 12s

Always thought anything higher than 14s you're timing within an inch of your crack

So +2 is actually nuts

[jaunty heath]

+14 +2

[bleak night]

damn that dude actually just lied on the internet wtf

[potent relic]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[rapid pendant]

hey guys, I feel I am struggling with aoe / cleave damage during keys. For boss fights I am doing fine. Are we underperforming in overall damage at the end of a run. there are +4-6's

[lucid jackal]

Sub can be kinda shit in low keys because we do so much damage

Like it dies before your ramp

[steady dune]

Small pulls are killing me as well

[slate marlin]

how does only 2 sod play?

[worn ivy]

feels klunky

[rapid pendant]

is that a real thing? but if you are chain pulling your still pretty much buffed. Unless youre talking about our 1.5 min cd's

[soft mist]

is sub still revolving aroudn shadow technique?
that was rly fun for me in DF

[bleak night]

pull pack>pop cds>everything dies before second sectec

[rapid pendant]

yeah then you wasted all your cd's but you still have shadow dance

[rocky ocean]

What this build is good for?

[bleak night]

well the point being a large amount of your damage is in that second sectec

so if you arent getting that off before things die your overall suffers in low keys

[rapid pendant]

in some boss fights with more mechanics are you noticing that shadow blades falls off before your secod sec tech because you really only have a 2-3 second window to get line up the second sec tech with shadow blades

[bleak night]

thats something you just cant let happen

[west tide]

i was doin keys with a ww and we both popped off on the same packs mf takin my dps

[ornate heron]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rapid pendant]

black powder is performing really well in that document

[tame terrace]

do people do log reviews in here/does the log command work and do people look at it sometimes

[civic oyster]

is there a downside I'm not seeing to this? https://www.wowhead.com/item=229780/prized-gladiators-badge-of-ferocity?bonus=12030:12020:11984:1546:10255

been unlucky with house of cards and this has more agi and lower cd than my heroic transmitter

not that the cd matters much

[hazy breach]

Nope, no downsides

Thats why its recommended

It only goes to 658 though

But still better than hc transmitter usually, slightly worse than mythic transmitter in sims typically but still good since its less effort

[civic oyster]

I noticed it looking at logs and it says 678 champion I guess that's just a visual error?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[tame terrace]

is the triple dance opener still a thing

[hazy breach]

Not really no

[barren sand]

Do we generally only use one cold blood during a 90 second cycle?

[tame terrace]

!logs

[jaunty heath]

No, every dance uses one

Oh

Cb

My bad

There is one you could fit in between but it’s tight and almost neutral

So just using in cds ends up practically better

[barren sand]

Sweet, ty for that. Sims were just using on the second st and wanted to make sure that was okay

[edgy zenith]

Guys what is another fun class.

[muted birch]

Depends what you mean by "fun"

complexity

etc etc

[lucid jackal]

Ret is fun!

[muted birch]

If im to be honest

Pala tankin is fun

[hollow snow]

liar

[muted birch]

The only class I can think on such short notice might be mage

pvp, pve, vending machine

[bleak night]

Idk I think Ret is pretty fun

Every 30s just start glowing and call down the wrath of god on people

[edgy zenith]

Might be a Pres angle

[young mural]

is this enough mastery

[jaunty heath]

Under 200

Not enough

[young mural]

yhea im poorly geared tbh

[tepid trellis]

pressed HoC log invalidated

try again

[muted birch]

cheating

[young mural]

Caught me, cant lie

[rapid pendant]

Is shurikan tornado with black powder more ideal for mythic + ? are there any rotation guides on that

[lucid jackal]

Tornado bad

[round latch]

who would write a guide

no guides written

[hazy breach]

Its the same

[plush roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tame terrace]

is the best neck we can get just the pvp vers/mast one

[topaz stag]

Hi, whats our strongest spec atm for raiding in LOU?

[tribal blade]

ok i ran all sin keys today helping my tank gear up his vdh

sin is way better in mass aoe

sad

[robust igloo]

How come it is possible for me to die in a middle of the fight just after getting CR, from melee attack on Kul'Tharok in Theater of Pain

[alpine wraith]

tank was not in melee range

[tribal blade]

this season has quite a few bosses where the tank needs to be in melee always because the boss doesn't move

well, a few

[dense lichen]

this will never not be true. Sub has great Prio and Boss damage while still having decent mass AoE. Assa has crazy good AoE but their boss damage is... Ass. Pick your poison

[tribal blade]

yup sad days

sin also has amazing prio, might still be the best in the game

[cinder steppe]

i just be pinging people when im tanking 🙂

[honest brook]

guys how many rapture you have to spread in aoe for start

[hollow spear]

If you play the hybrid sin build, your boss damage isn't actually that bad either

Imo, sin is quite a bit better in m+ than sub

But sub is way better than s1 rn

Definitely playable

[rose crag]

Does anyone have a recommendation for a WA that tracks Fazed uptime? Learning Sub this patch and trying to hone my AoE rotation

[alpine wraith]

i use the LE ones a bit

and have my own too

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[rose crag]

turns out i'm just blind and Luxthos does track Fazed thank you!

[shy ermine]

Luxthos has quite a few things disabled by default, go in and enable what you want if you want to see more

[limpid sage]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dense geode]

When I pug I only play sub cause boss dmg. Love sin for all around though so much more fun

[hollow spear]

Need to fix my plater

I keep losing my mark when I play sin

Sub is more fun for me

[honest brook]

what poison sub use in m+ guys?

[short radish]

instant

[fallow nimbus]

And the other one

[wild vine]

well you dont need to swap off in the first place

[tribal blade]

there's the deathstalker's mark WA there

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[tribal blade]

helps quite a bit

usually a pull goes like:

1. know which target you're gonna be kicking>set as focus
2. find your mark target

[hollow spear]

I think Quazi has a mod in his plater that changes colour based on debuffs

Will probably try that out

[tribal blade]

that WA does it too

changes the nameplate to purple and it has a special outline

[hollow spear]

In the picture it's only a purple outline

Maybe the picture is outdated

I need stuff to be a bit more "in your face" 😄

[tribal blade]

oh no you're right it's just a purple outline my mistake

[keen dome]

Did a test pull in a mythic pug on Cauldron and that boss is def puggable. Just going to be a pain.

[gritty zenith]

which flask is better for m+? vers flask or chaos flask

[wild hornet]

pov stix fight
get my last gcd hit -> get stunned by the small aoe -> instantly wts and shadowstep for another gcd
proceed to get called out for getting hit by it

[keen dome]

[wild hornet]

some people might call it minmaxing

some brainless no mechanic play

[keen dome]

Haha

I now have 3 mythic kills on Vexie and have yet to parse higher than 20. I am bad at rogue.

[fleet acorn]

funny a ww monk is laughing at me doing 200k less overall in a top +13 when his first dmg skill is spinning crane kick

with 17 kicks and i did 32

[paper iron]

Fun à ww in à high single target key Who s winning

[real panther]

I was re-reading the guide on wowhead and I don't get that part. If you don't macro it you can align it on the second sectec? I don't understand

[paper iron]

His mom must be proud

[limpid sage]

sad part is that they win on aoe as well

[paper iron]

I mean idk why People think rogue is top tier when it s at most mid bottom

They just dumb

They probably still think shroud is broken and we re cc king

Lmao

[real panther]

Ok lol, I thought it was about using a second cold blood xD. Ok but why is it giving a better output?

[brittle echo]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[keen dome]

I'm an optimist and I think it's mid top! It's good!!

[paper iron]

U just stack more flawless form for your 2nd sectech thats why

[hollow spear]

If you pug it, odds are your burn phases are 15 seconds long

[paper iron]

I can be OK with mid mid. Last trade words

[keen dome]

Nah, we had almost full ones. I just suck + raid leading it is stressful. So much to keep track of.

[keen dome]

🫡

[paper iron]

U guys hold your 3rd CD on vexxie now?

Or your guild hold for 5mn

[hollow spear]

The rule is

The second you send your 3min, people start actually doing mechanics

So you don't get your 4.30/5.00 into the burn

[keen dome]

Haha

true

[hollow spear]

Which is why I don't send

[paper iron]

I can show u my damage in burn phase

Which we do at 4.20

I m behind some healers

I should hold

They dont want to pot + CD at 5mn

They prefer do top 10 speed world

This is NM burst phase we did for fun cuz to help to gear Some alts since ours warlock was late at raid

55s phasing

[hollow spear]

You were on the toilet then right?

[paper iron]

I was out of dances

[keen dome]

that druid, lmao

[paper iron]

[jaunty umbra]

guess who wins hoc

[paper iron]

Not you

Tbf

They re right

Dont gear the rogues until buffs

Useless class

[keen dome]

Did they fall down the hole immediately on Gallywix?

[jaunty umbra]

he got boosted

[keen dome]

ah

[void ocean]

Thats AA dps

Has to be

[jaunty umbra]

but still rolled 97 on hoc with speed while being last 5 dps in this run

is what it is, sometimes you get lucky and often times you dont

[fluid moth]

Does nimble flurry work similar to caustic spatter as described here? #assassination message

[paper iron]

More like blade flurry

It s arround u

[hollow spear]

Are you pugging?

[fluid moth]

Ty

[jaunty umbra]

yea it was my dk alt

[hollow spear]

Your fault for not having five rogue alts ig

[jaunty umbra]

as much as i love rogue, it would bore the fuck out of me

playing mirror alts

[hollow spear]

Yeah I got an alt dk too

@paper iron is devo fun?

[paper iron]

I havent played this expansion

But

[jaunty umbra]

I got dk dh and evoker this season

[paper iron]

It can be fun

Just slow as fl

Fk

About 25 apm

Since you full channel desintegrate

[jaunty umbra]

yea I log devoker when i want to chill max

[vocal crypt]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[nova raft]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow spear]

How can there be such a huge dps gap between a good and a bad devo?

Positioning?

[paper iron]

not pressing the right buttons

basically

you have 3 buttons

but 12 procs

positionning must be involved when we start talking about cleave

and also rng crit, if you double crit your dragonrage, you do 11m dps opener, if not, you do 4m. (in single target)

from what told me our devoker

which i totally trust btw

(hc)

also most devokers comes from prevoker / aug, so they just learning i would assume

[lucid atlas]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[hollow spear]

pumper

stix and mugzee ruin my otherwise good looking parses

[paper iron]

he s doing R1 mythic every tier since devo release

just to say the least

this dude a beast, he quitted progressing 6 days a week cuz he got a real life

[upbeat escarp]

guys is the mega magnet trinket simbait or? how are you supposed to use it

[hazy breach]

Its fine, you just use it whenever except less than 20s before when you want to use your stat on-use with cds

[rocky axle]

Am i trolling if i craft head this week ? I can't see my guild killing 1armed bandit withing 2 weeks anyway

[hazy breach]

Getting a hc/normal tier helm at 658 and crafting gloves is likely a bigger increase

Or rather, probably a similar increase but better longterm

[rocky axle]

This is exactly what i was looking for. Ty

Except, u meant wrists right ?

[hazy breach]

No

[rocky axle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d5UTq516gz4mJ5gGWzkaVU

i've got champion wrists and HC set gloves. Do u mean to replace the gloves set cuz secondaries suck ?

[whole lichen]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[strange shore]

just got 4p finally, and looking for a bit of help. Does rotation stay pretty much the same, or do we try to hold our finishers or slow going into our next dance to keep the buff rolling?

[alpine wraith]

you dont change almost anything with tier

there are some choices you can do

but they are at most neutral

at worst gambling with 15% chances

[rose comet]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[strange shore]

Cool that is what I was thinking! I also have a question about the second SB of a fight (or 3rd/4th if it is forever LOL). About 45ish seconds out I have a thing where I only have one charge of Symbol, Secret and dance are off CD. Right now I am holding Secret, Dance, and Symbol so that I can have 2 full Dance windows in SB. Is that the play, or is there enough time to yolo a Dance/Secret combo without Symbol so that I can still have the 2 charges of Symbol going into the big cd?

[hazy breach]

45s is usually enough

Its ~25ish where you stop sending

[alpine wraith]

yea that is one of those 2 dances in between cds

if it is the 3rd one

[strange shore]

Copy that! Still with Symbol if it is before 45?

[alpine wraith]

yea you will get another

then the second one will charge while you are on cds

you dan use flag when you have like 1 charge and like 10 secs or so left of the second one

[strange shore]

Nice thank ya!

[limpid mica]

Hello here are my sim and log from dummy can You please help me and tell, what im doing wrong/how i can improve?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/B4tHxTPf2WyCVcgz?fight=last
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bCss8TfsosM3SKeijJhbpi

[split path]

Hello ! Guys, do you think it's a good idee to craft 2 daguers 675 ? My weapons are 639/632

[alpine wraith]

craft only 1

off hand dps is very low

[split path]

Oh ok, so the neck is the best way as 2nd ?

[alpine wraith]

sim it i crafted head for example

but some people crafted neck others belt or cloak

[hazy breach]

Neck, bracers, belt, boots, gloves all fine

[split path]

Ok thanks for your advices 🙂

[void ocean]

Putting Ascendance on off hand is not a dps loss, right?

[hollow spear]

Doesn't matter

[void ocean]

(im not near my pc to sim)

[hollow spear]

I just use the focusing lens

[void ocean]

I do too, atm but im considering enabling assa spec as well

[alpine wraith]

ascendance and blessed grips are fine for sub

a bit better if there is more than 1 target than lens

but also most embellish are whatever

[fleet acorn]

Anyone here happy with aoe sub dmg ? Being losest dps ?

[void ocean]

I feel like im starting to fall off in m+ as gear progresses

Now im over 660 and cant top overall

Still usually top on bosses

[quaint lodge]

Your opener is wrong.

It should be shadowstrike - Flag - Rupture then going into shadow dance. YOur backstab needs to be inside of shadow dance for it to be a dps gain because of danse macbre.

Your symbols should only be used to supercharge secret technique.

I recommend you open the wowhead guide and read the opener because the entirety of subtelty rogue is p much the opener. Once you've mastered that, everything falls into place relatively smoothly.

[twilit phoenix]

It really depends on the dungeon tbh

ToP and Mechagon sub is really strong

But assa is pulling ahead in the other ones i’d say

I like sub in ML too

[fleet acorn]

Im Talking about +13 keys like in top im doing almost 2.9 with 662 ilvl and my log says pink with 99.
but Fire mage/boomie/ww/dk Today all did over 3.5 I cant Even get close and get laughed at

[bleak night]

well m+ logs are a meme so you shouldnt be basing anything on that

and top is not a good boomkin dungeon so if they're doing so much more than you that you're getting laughed at...

[wet jacinth]

quick question i use my sod and shadow dance to not cap. my hekili (dont judge) doesnt use it until the flaggelation burst window. do yall use your "mini" bursts in between flaggelations or do you actually pool cds for 1:30 ?

[alpine wraith]

capping dances does not really happen

[twilit phoenix]

Hekili

[wet jacinth]

i get confused sometimes so it helps for that :^(

[twilit phoenix]

Just practice on dummies man

You’re not learning anything

[void ocean]

Whats Hekili

[short aurora]

The forbidden addon

[wet jacinth]

blasphemy thats what it is

[twilit phoenix]

It’s a rotation helper

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/speechless-stickguy-walking-away-no-words-nope-bye-gif-20466513

[pure dust]

is there any shroud tech around the group of mobs before candle boss in darkflmae cleft?

I know locks can gate around

[viral phoenix]

You can stealth around them by walking on the staircase railing thing if I recall

[dense lichen]

You can Symbols + Dance in between Flag windows as long as you’ll have 2 stacks of each available while you’re bursting.

[hazy breach]

You dont need 2 stacks whenever you start either, as long as it comes up for when you need them its fine

For dance that is roughly 35-40s left on your second dance charge

[fallow bone]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[main bay]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[soft stump]

I mean a rotation helper isn't bad per say. I use one and i parses oranges and purples lol

[long marlin]

Can you evasion or cloak the whatever the stomp mechanic is called on reverb?

[soft stump]

Nah, if you get hit you'll be stunned.

[long marlin]

Ok thanks

[soft stump]

You can reduce the damage, but the stun still happens

[void ocean]

Which one is the stomp dmg

[nocturne rose]

You can use evasion on reverb

to avoid the stun

[void ocean]

For the brown circle u can evasion but u gotta look at the boss

[hazy breach]

You can evasion it

[rancid axle]

guys can we see on sims with how many cp is the sim using spenders? I can't find it

[limpid sage]

I have a friend that uses it purely in mechanic overload situations

considered doing that personally as well

[vale pine]

6+

[rancid axle]

I was looking for it on an outlaw sim, cuz i feel like I'm doing more dmg using 6-7 cp than 5+ like all guides say :/

so I simmed myself to look for how many cp is using the sim but I can't find it

[real panther]

thanks

[vale pine]

huh?

[rancid axle]

was talking about outlaw D:

[vale pine]

ah fair

outlaw has diffrent finishing rules

[molten citrus]

The outlaw guide does not say to finish at 5+

It says to finish at 6+

5+ is only during Crackshot

And a few other rules

[rancid axle]

yeah I just noticed, audacity proc, PS proc and subterfuge

but we're almost always with one of these rules XDD

[molten citrus]

Yeh and outlaw has a lot of different rules for different builds

[soft stump]

Like they'll tell you what to do, but you also take it with a grain of salt

Like they won't tell you to hold CDs or anything

[limpid sage]

I’ve found that I need to be around 30 for it to consistently overlap without a single global outside dance - is it because you’re counting Coup proc as well?

Or is there something I might be overlooking

[ornate lake]

When will the humiliation ritual from demolocks, retpalas and bm hunters end bros? I'm so tired

[limpid sage]

I feel like retpalas have been disgusting since their rework

[ornate lake]

Absolutely humiliating to play with them

30-45 second burst

Top st top boss dmg

Giga survivability

[oak grotto]

Is Weaponmaster worth it in higher keys? Instead of First Dance

[hazy breach]

Nop

Even if you never play around it you get far more value from tfd than weaponmaster

Weaponmaster is practically useless

[oak grotto]

Is it worth sending Rupture on like <4 CP if the target wont live the +20 seconds

[valid palm]

Hello ! I'm a new sub rogue !

[vale pine]

welcome

[deep yew]

how good is eye of kezan for m+?

[vale pine]

depends how good you can keep stacks up, its usually suggested to run other trinkets