subtlety

[swift tinsel]

yesssss

[vale pine]

sorry for bad pain skills, but so my assumption is, if the initial attack hits (within the attack range around you), then moving the target out of the cycle still has it trigger the clone attack

[swift tinsel]

Ah, yeah that's what it looks like is the case

[vale pine]

but if the attack is stationary

it would only trigger within the "blue" zone

[half comet]

are we crafting neck this szn

[vale pine]

and if the target moves out of it

[half comet]

none of them look good right

[vale pine]

it would not hit

with clone attacks

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, that makes sense. It would appear that isn't not stationary, thankfully

[steel horizon]

Just the animation itself is

[vale pine]

hope my paint explained what i mean ^^

[swift tinsel]

I need to find a warrior and have him leap as soon as the phys hit lands

really test the distance lol

[swift tinsel]

Yep! message received and understood

[half comet]

is there a list with all items obtainable this sesaon so raid mythic+ together catergorized by slot

[edgy zenith]

gamers, are you sending the rupture on bandit opener or you padding on the guys?

[vale pine]

any of the low impact slots is a good craft, best is to sim it, #tc-research has text files to copy/paste in top gear to help with that

low impact slots are back, neck, boots, belt, bracers and such

[edgy zenith]

or maybe put up rupture but skip the snd?

[half comet]

ya im just lookin and it seems theres no good neck but we have options for the rest

[vale pine]

there is a good neck from m+

but vault roulette

[half comet]

which?

crit vers?

[swift tinsel]

Glowtorc

Been simming better for me lately bc I'm swimming in mastery

[vale pine]

yes

crit is not bad because we have so little

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[edgy zenith]

i htink I'm like 103% unbuffed mastery

or something wild

[vale pine]

and the higher item level is good too

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I'm at 101% lol

and that's with Trashmaster cloak lol

[edgy zenith]

yeah, same

lmao

[vale pine]

so you are a german train woohiii

[swift tinsel]

Azerokk trinket is a nice mastery injection but very troll to play with lol

[swift tinsel]

I wish I was this cool

[alpine wraith]

azerokk is for true rng enjoyers

can go a whole fight without proccing it on dance

[swift tinsel]

I have a weakaura to tell me its Biggest Bonks time when it procs during flag and dance

[vale pine]

i probably keep my enegry drink in 2nd slot of a while

[swift tinsel]

I do not see that message often lol

[vale pine]

need cards, so game pls

[edgy zenith]

how good is that energy drink actually?

i should sim it

[paper iron]

that some paint skills what the heck

[swift tinsel]

I'm hoping for a Drink or Zee's in next vault

even just champ track

[edgy zenith]

i don't wanna do delves

[swift tinsel]

Oh man I love delves

[paper iron]

next time draw the sub rotation guide

[vale pine]

haha

[edgy zenith]

I have a 4/6 Zee's is a drink ever gonna be better?

[swift tinsel]

Possibly

[edgy zenith]

we simming now

pray for me

[vale pine]

#trinket1=suspicious_energy_drink,id=235363,ilevel=665

[edgy zenith]

i mean realistically, even if it shows up in vault as hero track, I'm never grabbing it over a mythic track piece, no?

[vale pine]

copy pasta below your top gear

quick to sim

[edgy zenith]

ty king

[bleak night]

sussy drink is pretty good

[vale pine]

its even better if you are low on hp

[edgy zenith]

it's over

i gotta farm delves for trinkets

not like this

[dry plank]

8k is nothing

[paper iron]

Do relative dps always on sims, raw numbers are confusing

my brain still think in early df when i see numbers

[low steppe]

no I was just a goof and changed my keybinds and forgot to put the macro on my stealth bar

[edgy zenith]

it's something when I can't get another upgrade from anywhere but like Jastor ring/houseof cards/eye of kezan

gearing this season sucks

[dry plank]

I’m playing panda bro coz I love animation so much and have -56k dps coz I’m idiot )) compare to top race. 8k is nothing do not force yourself

[edgy zenith]

i yearn for the mines

[vale pine]

its not too bad

[crystal bone]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

you need house of cards

and the rest seems fairly whatever

weapon you can craft

some slots you can catalyst

[edgy zenith]

I mean in terms of feel. nothing feels like a meaningful upgrade

[vale pine]

2nd trinket slot has many trinkets you can farm

oh fair

i think you rly feel the caps

but its maybe just my personal opinion, as i am not a fan of the crest caps, valorstone caps and similar

[edgy zenith]

yeah, sitting on 4/6 hero track bc you have to preserve gilded is like

[twilit phoenix]

i think the upgrade and shit will start to feel better in another 2 or 3 resets

[edgy zenith]

super annoying

and doesn't feel good

[twilit phoenix]

but the cap is for sure annoying

at least i don't feel valorstone capped this season

i feel like I was always short on them the last few seasons

now I'm just perma 2k

[swift tinsel]

Being gatekept early by crest caps does not feel good

let my effort or time investment be my cap plz

[lucid jackal]

They had the philosophy for awhile and people hated it

[alpine wraith]

would make mythic splits a thing

it would be very weird

if gilded were not capped

it is sad but what can we do

[swift tinsel]

People hated not being capped?

Hm

[edgy zenith]

well

casuals

[shy ermine]

Many people hated artifact power etc

[edgy zenith]

"I can't get into a group because these unemplyed

[lucid jackal]

Artifact power, titanforging

[void hound]

i think the cap is good

[lucid jackal]

These are systems that exist to "incentivize grinding"

Noobs hated them

They felt "forced"

[shy ermine]

Spamming m+ all day for a full set of titanforges was bis content before I started working 👌

[swift tinsel]

I think that's different though, because crests are deterministic

[hazy breach]

Well no but they hate feeling like theyre griefing their team because they couldnt spam maw of souls 14 hours a day due to their job

[swift tinsel]

I get that

but current gear systems have gear upgrades that are finite, and the friction there of having the gear to upgrade but being gated from being able to is a friction point that I don't feel needs to exist

Esp now with how easy gilded are to get

or insert crest/valorstone here

[lucid jackal]

Well then what everybody does week 1 is literally grind their enjoyment out of the game by doing like

Literally 30+ dungeons week 1 and full upgrade all hero track gear to 6/6

And then also be able to make every mythic item instantly 6/6

The raids would have to be balanced around this insane level of gear acquisition now given the the majority of the player base

[alpine wraith]

30 dungeons you are missing a 0

think we did like 490 maw of souls

[lucid jackal]

Yeah it'd be a gross af number

[swift tinsel]

Realistically, how much of the playerbase does that affect though

[alpine wraith]

it is kinda a double sided blade

[hazy breach]

Like a couple of people from most raids

[alpine wraith]

the top people feel "forced"

[hazy breach]

So most raids are gonna feel bad

Because some of their raiders are doing it

But they cant

[alpine wraith]

then the others feel sad when they see their titanforged full stack

you cant win

[warm folio]

is it a dps loss to macro battle pot into blades?

[hazy breach]

No

Thats fine

[alpine wraith]

depends on boss but usually it does not matter

like first boss is free as f

[hazy breach]

Sometimes you might want to hold the pot until the next set of cds, but most of the time no

Its better to macro it than to forget to use it

[swift tinsel]

I have a flag+pot macro and a naked flag/naked pot binds and swap fight-by-fight if needed, works pretty well

[warm folio]

i dont ever like forget to use it but im struggling with information overload in my opener (especially in m+ when i have to be doing other things too) and was wondering if i can make it just a little easier on myself

[orchid gate]

Is the performance difference between sub and Assa i keys big or equivalent to one another?

[steel zinc]

Why is finality simming for me 20k ahead?

[orchid gate]

Cause im an old Assa player, so sub tends to feel a bit weird 😅

[lucid jackal]

Barely any but do you not remember the constant complaining about renown in shadowlands

Or korthia

Or the maw

Or titanforging in legion

Or ap in legion and bfa

Like, they've tried letting people grind forever for infinite power and people hate it

I don't! But people do

[quick latch]

any1 with raidbots premium can sim a all dungeon droptimizer for me pls ❤️

[alpine wraith]

it is better for many in st

[steel zinc]

how come? I mean its in aoe a loss apperently

[swift tinsel]

Rotten in aoe grants FW spread, finality does not so that makes sense

[alpine wraith]

yea rotten in aoe lets you put FW

[edgy zenith]

well you only do the storm trick at 7 targets, no?

[hazy breach]

Ye

[edgy zenith]

so I think in raid you just always use finality

[hazy breach]

Yep

[alpine wraith]

yes

[hazy breach]

Barely any difference either way, but yep

[swift tinsel]

No finality rupture in dance right

that's all done with

[alpine wraith]

just have rupture rolling for cds

[edgy zenith]

you don't play around it iirc

[swift tinsel]

good, more globals for bonks

[edgy zenith]

you didn't like pressing rupture twice and praying for tier set proc!?

shadow rupture was hype

[swift tinsel]

I still had the tooltip pull from that tier set on my rupture aura until like a month ago lol

[edgy zenith]

lmao

[swift tinsel]

some silly numbers on it back then but good riddance

my Nightblade icon is free

[vale pine]

nope

we only did that because of a tier set bonus

which did snapshot on top of finality

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I don't miss playing around that

[vale pine]

it was poorly designed

but we gave that feedback early

so at least it was not something considered problematic

[swift tinsel]

spamming low cp ruptures is always a good design to avoid

[glacial hinge]

can we bind HoC to any cd? maybe blades? or should be earlier cuz of Stech

[vale pine]

house of cards with blades

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[vale pine]

^ can macro it too like in the lower of the two

[slate marlin]

do you use coup before or after st?

I assume after for cdr

[vale pine]

detailed answer

you want to send it asap in your first dance during flag

but outside of that both is fine, using coup first can give you more procs so might be prefered

[fluid moth]

Flawlesss form procs, right?

[slate marlin]

ye, coup gives you 5

ill stick to using it after if its equal, i prefer the cdr

[sweet knot]

Why is Macro'ing Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols considered bad ?

[solemn creek]

there is a point where u wanna dance but not symbol

[hazy breach]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[solemn creek]

and symbol but not dance

and u want cold up for 2nd secret technique in flag window

[paper iron]

rushed normal with guild, 1.20mn kill timers are

[pulsar lintel]

I have insane dmg during the first half of fights but fall off noticeably on longer kill time fights. Is it likely I'm fucking up CDs further in fights or is this just kind of how sub plays?

[paper iron]

hmmm as i said above, it wil depends on your kill timer. But you should not be super low, middle/top of the pack usually

[fluid moth]

I think you can still get cdr if you use it before depending on where you are with your st cooldown

[paper iron]

so u might do some stuff wrong like not using correctly your big cds or little ones between big cds

[solemn creek]

i hate that the pvp neck is so strong XD farming 25k honor for 2 socket takes forever

[hazy breach]

You dont need 25k honor

You can buy the bloodgems on AH

[solemn creek]

WHAT

[hazy breach]

You still need like 5k x2 for the actual item

But the 3 bloodstones or whatever theyre called can be bought

[solemn creek]

uve just saved me 2h of farm

didnt even think this was buyable

[half comet]

do you need a spark for the pvp neck

how does it work

[hazy breach]

You buy it for conquest

From the vendor

[half comet]

and it just comes pre statted

[solemn creek]

its 500 conquest.. wich takes 2 min to farm

the 10k honor is longer

[slate marlin]

theres another craft available next week, think its easier to just craft a neck next week

[crude jasper]

Does anyone have a general list of M+ dungeons best suited for First dance vs Weaponmaster?

[alpine wraith]

first dance is always better imo

[crude jasper]

If you have a chain pulling group, would it be best to fall back and wait then?

6 seconds feels like an eternity outside of long walks

[hazy breach]

Then dont bother with it

[edgy zenith]

I just take weaponmaster because I CBA worrying about the out of combat thing

[hazy breach]

Its still gonna be up from RP and after bosses

[half comet]

u dont have to worry about it

its still better

if you dont ever think abou tit

[proven plover]

I need an ideal out of blades cb wa which counts down from like 5 when you could enter a dance symbols Window so that the 45sec cb cd comes off right before pressing sectec

So it will be up 45 sec later for blades window

[hazy breach]

Weaponmaster is effectively useless in any form of aoe and bad on ST

TFD does something

[crude jasper]

Aight, thanks yall, sounds like i was overthinking it

[hazy breach]

Like in a 8 target cleave sim

The sim has to be like 16 minutes for weaponmaster to be better than TFD

(than the 4 seconds at the start of the fight)

[edgy zenith]

oooo, I actually have a question about this: say I have coup ready going into a fight, am I:
flag > rupture > gen > sectech
or
flag > rupture > gen > coup

is there a definite answer?

[paper iron]

16mn sim

[hazy breach]

Sectech first

[vale pine]

^

[hazy breach]

You want the cdr

[edgy zenith]

couldn't you fit the second sectech in CDs anyway?

[hazy breach]

You could

But you wouldnt fit your unseen blades and possibly a second coup

Nor would the flawless form stacks from your coup be up for the second sectech

[edgy zenith]

do they really run out?

never noticed

[hazy breach]

They last for 12 seconds

[edgy zenith]

oh yeah

it's like 11s ish

with good RNG

between sectechs

that's quite tight

[hazy breach]

No its 13s

Because you wont have coup

Since you used it before

[edgy zenith]

yeah, i mean normally

that's interesting

[sweet knot]

Anyone have any weakaura's to track the timer for flag?

Ive seen it on streams but can never find it on Wago

[versed swift]

Wait so tfd in raid too then ?

[hazy breach]

Are your raid bosses 8 target constant cleaves

[void verge]

!log

[spark tusk]

!wa these packs have trackers for such things

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[versed swift]

Does my RL and 6 mf's that don't shut up count?

[quick latch]

how much mastery% should i have atleast?

[molten citrus]

a lot

we don't really aim for any exact %s, just sim gear to see what you should use or target to get from dungeons/raid/etc

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility > Critical Strike > Haste

[molten citrus]

sometimes pieces with no mastery can sim higher if they're higher ilvl etc

[quick latch]

i have 64% with 660ilvl , the only 2 items i can replace are belt and boots , i have no clue how i can get up to like 90% like everyone else

most of my items are from the bis list

[molten citrus]

"bis" items can be different depending on the rest of your gear

they aren't an end all be all

i've got 3 pieces with no mastery and i'm at 87% so idk how you're so low but

sim your gear

[quick latch]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/de_de/character/eu/blackmoore/Zimmerman

got like 2 items without mastery

like i said belt and boots

[soft stump]

How much of a dps loss is gloomblade

[warm marlin]

no mastery neck and top ring with low mastery is ur entire difference

[quick latch]

i simmed a mastery neck it said less dps

[warm marlin]

well I would trust the sim

[vale pine]

not much

[warm marlin]

but for me for example pvp neck and top ring with heavy mastery sims well

which is like 6k mast u dont have

stat %s are meaningless tho trust the robot

[quick latch]

yeh i guess i gotta do that

[autumn glade]

You have house of cards and suspicious energy drink, not surprised that sim probably devalues mastery at a certain point cause you'll have that house of cards mastery for every big burst window

just trust the sim

[soft stump]

What would I swap to use it?

[hazy breach]

Replicating shadows, after youve swapped improved storm

But it would be terrible on anything with any adds

And i dont see the point to spec gloomblade to begin with

[quick latch]

yeh i was thinking to replace it with eye of kezan but didnt sim better , so im keeping it

[vale pine]

^

its only a pure single target option

[soft stump]

Okay

[hazy breach]

(you still have to be behind the mob to apply find weakness, even with gloomblade)

[soft stump]

Ahhhhh

Well then I guess I'll just get good

Not used to the be behind lol, I main assassination and I'm just seeing how sub plays out for me

[warm folio]

is this opener good? is there anything i can do better or is it as it should be?

[paper iron]

looks like

u forgot to press symbol before your second secret tech

[warm folio]

i pressed symbol into eviscerate and still had one supercharger for it no?

[paper iron]

oh yea u did

kinda hard to track without an action tracker mb

[warm folio]

nw, my mistake. i thought about adding one before i posted it and then got distracted with something else lol

[paper iron]

looks correct to me at a first glance but very hard to say to me without an action tracking, i m not used to

[half comet]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

i was distracted by the speed meter at the middle of the screen

also the pop in combo points

but a hot tip for "is this good"

use details ability timeline, trufigcd or a weakaura to show your ability use

so its is easy to follow what you are doing, looking at button animations and buffs is a very cumbersome way to see rotations

[paper iron]

here in details settings, enable action tracker

[lone cypress]

Hi what poisons do you run for sub usually for m+

[vale pine]

instant + numbing

atrophic if you push higher keys instead

[low nacelle]

Hello all why we are using emproved ambush ?

[alpine wraith]

+1 cp on shadowstrike is very big

[low nacelle]

ok ty

[hearty steeple]

Hello everyone, what would be the second best item to craft after dagger for mythic+

[vale pine]

more cp = more finisher = more damage = more cdr = more dances = more better

[hazy breach]

Neck, cloak, boots, bracers, ring

Whatever is your worst slot really

[vale pine]

you usually want to craft one of your weakest slots or a slot with low stat budget like neck, bracers, boots, belt, back or ring

[hearty steeple]

From what i noticed, bracers would be good, most of mythic+ loot are haste and other secondary state

At least neck belt …. Have a good stat combo for subt

[west tide]

i finished my pvp neck experience ❤️

i crafted boots pvp neck might craft cloak or bracers next idk..

or maybe save my gilded crests to max my weapon and use the heroic free craft crest for cloak 🤔

[kind bluff]

My verse has gotten so high that my ring now gives verse instead of mastery

So my mastery took a dump

[west tide]

chat is pirate trinket good for sub

[olive mural]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[remote rapids]

feel like I'm struggling a bit with Sub in keys, not really rotation-wise I don't think since I play it in ... more just like when to send CDs, basically hold Flag for boss maybe? Everything else send on CD more or less?

[hazy breach]

If the pack isnt going to be dead halfway into your flag

You generally just send

Cant be holding much

[remote rapids]

Ok, I think I was holding a little too much but I also don't run ML so don't have a great feel for that place either

I think I did 2.2 overall, which is pretty low, but not super bad just when hunter does 3mil overall feels bad

[vocal crypt]

any changes for second bis trinket next to house of card with the hotfixes ?

[molten citrus]

gonna take a lil longer than 5minutes to figure it out

[fallen crescent]

[random hare]

@tepid trellis big zee's thug hotline buffs

login

[strange rover]

ayo is there any notable trinkets for sub that got buffed ?

[random hare]

ye

thug hotline

and

idk what else

maybe magnet might be good now

[vale pine]

nicu

gz

[strange rover]

that good that you can concider it as replacement to transmitter till you get house of cards ? or

[native hawk]

i

have royally fucked that then and screenshot the wrong trinket

... goon squad rise

[drifting fable]

thug hotline gotta be op now with the buffs

[alpine wraith]

yea many items got buffed

the magnet might be quite good depending too

[lucid lily]

Wasn’t zee’s already close to BiS for us? Should pop off now

[alpine wraith]

remnant of darkness and grim codex still a bit sad tho

[twilit phoenix]

Sussy drink probably still stays giga strong

[half comet]

so is there no optimizaiton in the apl around our tier set

[alpine wraith]

nothing that could net wins over 100000 tries

[void hound]

tier got nuked unfortunately

[alpine wraith]

but you can critically think and see on fights if adds are spawning

and that will be a win

you do get lots of stacks on cds anyway tho

[dense mountain]

will any of these trinket buffs free me from transmitter?

[random hare]

@tepid trellis LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

THE OUTLAW TRINKET

IS NOW BIS FOR USB TOO

AHAHHAAHAHAH

SUB*

GG

LOGIN

nvm deleting hidden tech sim

[ocean star]

its ok ill post it

jkjk

wtf is that trinket, delve?

[random hare]

ye

[ocean star]

frick

[strange chasm]

i have eye surely i am safe

[hazy breach]

Its not bis, but yes its solid

(pirate trinket that is)

[jaunty heath]

Does it beat energy drink

[hazy breach]

About the same

[jaunty heath]

Thank god

[strange chasm]

Eye still bis?

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jaunty heath]

Eye is bis on long fights forever prob

[hazy breach]

Same as before

[jaunty heath]

Hard to beat it there

[hazy breach]

Bis on longer fights, not bis on shorter fights

[stiff kiln]

so much trinket buffs 😦

[manic bison]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[void hound]

what are the best options for shorter fights currently

[rustic mortar]

Where the fuck are sub changes

[bleak wind]

zee thug is not bad

[stiff kiln]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/trinket-hotfixes-on-live-servers-many-20-buffs-to-undervalued-trinkets-376030

[void hound]

11.2 probably

[rustic mortar]

thats it

[strange chasm]

ah sin is back

sorry boys pack it up

[stiff kiln]

idk can't saw the link of assa buffs

[vocal crypt]

do we also get a buff ? Cant find it on wowhead

[hazy breach]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-incoming-march-25/2080741

[tepid trellis]

we are too good at padding

so no

we do not

[remote rapids]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vocal crypt]

atleast no nerf

😄

[hazy breach]

Also this trinket tuning seems mostly annoying

We went from having all the stat trinkets being good so you just get the highest ilvl of those

To all the damage trinket being good so you just get the highest ilvl of those

[mystic ether]

Anyone else experiencing issues with transmitter? I macro it to Flag but it stays on cd longer that Flag

[hazy breach]

M+ affix reduces cd of class spells

[jaunty heath]

affix gives 30% cdr

[hazy breach]

Not trinkets

[mystic ether]

Bruh...

Ok ty

[vale pine]

weird

i don't know why you would want trinekts to change

it was fairly well balanced

[alpine wraith]

they buffed lots of sucky ones

[paper rock]

Sub dodging buffs is beyond me

[stiff kiln]

hotline seems good

[upper narwhal]

Gooner trinket buffed

[vale pine]

don't think we saw any buffs or nerfs

[finite token]

so what do we think about not getting any buffs

[molten citrus]

what

oh

[hazy breach]

Others are getting nerfs

Indirect buff

[upper narwhal]

Sub is fine idk don’t need buffs

[paper rock]

Cooked take

[upper narwhal]

Nerfed the outliers sub is fine

[strange chasm]

Will be interesting to see numbers for sin now

[finite token]

came back after stopping in DF season 2 and sub feels worse than it was in SL and DF

[alpine wraith]

new tech run remnant of darkness and have 14k extra agi at 1 min 30

or be unluck and pop it just before cds and have 0

suffering from success

[vale pine]

sin buff might mean sub will lose player base again

[alpine wraith]

as expected

[covert apex]

Honestly, they added some really cool shit in the df sub rework, but i can't say im particularly satisfied about how it feels overall

[vale pine]

its the classic ye

[alpine wraith]

i mean rogue playerbase was already low enough

[covert apex]

I mostly really liked shadowcraft

[vale pine]

sub and sin performed about equal in logs

[brisk raptor]

Are they buffing assa?

[finite token]

is it a big loss to run vigor 1 over forced induction?

[molten citrus]

yep

[vale pine]

so a 3% buff to all damage + ambush/mut buff

[hazy breach]

Enormous yes

[vale pine]

is interessting

[hazy breach]

Vigor sucks complete ass

[finite token]

still salty about them changing acrobatic strikes

[hazy breach]

And supercharger is like what the spec revolves around

[tepid trellis]

i want someone to explain to me

[strange chasm]

Mut/Ambush buffs with 3% and talent swaps might be pretty big for sin

[tepid trellis]

why dev was buffed

[paper iron]

i legit dk

[upper narwhal]

Ye that makes no sense

[tepid trellis]

that shit is beyond

insanity

[brisk raptor]

Can someone link me notes? I can’t find them

[hazy breach]

Buffing their tier is fine

[strange chasm]

Was dev cracked?

[vale pine]

yep

[paper iron]

even our devoker, which is one of the greatest in the world he just do rank 1 over and over (he again did on stix)

[hazy breach]

But giving them other buffs besides that is silly

[paper iron]

dont understand why he s getting buffed

[tepid trellis]

they buffed their baseline as well

so like??????????

[strange chasm]

15% aug buff though guys

[tepid trellis]

are we just this out of touch

[covert apex]

Dev is pretty good right now

But kinda boring

[finite token]

dont think it will make aug meta again though

[hollow spear]

Dev was omega blasting already

[paper rock]

Don't tell me youre surprised lul

About them being out of touch

While being a sub enjoyer

[hollow spear]

Sin with the mutilate change might be back to the 20 apm gameplay

[brisk raptor]

Can you link changes?

[left ledge]

Guys I think they forgot to buff us too

They’ll get us in the next patch though dw

[rich prairie]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-incoming-march-25/2080741

[molten citrus]

#subtlety message

[tranquil garden]

we don't need buffs

[molten citrus]

eleem already posted the link

earlier

[left ledge]

Good for you or sorry that happened

[vale pine]

Trinket Tuning | Class Tuning (No changes)

Tl;DR: Direct Damage trinkets got buffed, we can now use a direct damage trinket in our 2nd trinket slot now.

Simulations: > Single Target < | > Dungeon Slice <
Notes: Hotline is now the highest simming second trinket, Eye of Kezan remain better on longer fight lengths.
Other trinkets which are now valuable include: Mega Magnet, Spare Keys, Wax Whistle, Sigil and Honey Buzzer .
Trinket selection for Mythic+ does not change much.

We still always use House of Cards as the main trinket, alternatively Transmitter or Prized Gladiator's Badge.
And the best from the trinkets we have in the second slot.

!sheet is up to date with the changes.

[strange rover]

oh my god they pushing assa to meta spec again i cba

[paper iron]

the real meta is outlaw

sorry

get your noggenfogger and enjoy

[hazy breach]

[keen dome]

The real meta is playing the spec you enjoy

[tepid trellis]

[tepid trellis]

he doesent know

[vale pine]

you are not entirely wrong, i think outlaw is underrated

[paper iron]

well thing is

[vale pine]

but the sin buffs seem jucy

[paper iron]

KS is probably not playable in like 3 bosses in raid

[strange rover]

i mean outlaw is pumpin but assa gona be broken with buffs its already decent

[paper iron]

but noggenfogger abuse

is just beyond reasonnable

[tepid trellis]

[weary crystal]

Assa assa assa

[paper iron]

Did they buff it btw?

[strange rover]

yes 3% aurabuff

and small st buff

[vale pine]

3% aura buff and buffs to mut and ambush

so likely leads to talent changes too

[vestal escarp]

chat where's the 40% buff to backstab?

[paper iron]

look at this masterpiece

[vale pine]

could be more than flat 3$

[hazy breach]

Should be like 5%

More or less, for assa

[paper iron]

and that s without PI, this thing scale with haste

[hazy breach]

While sub, which is doing pretty much the same ST gets nothing

Because we pad on adds

[paper iron]

oh no dont buff our builder again, we want burst buffs

[vestal escarp]

sin expac

[paper iron]

it s always the same

listen

outlaw strong early nerf (here the nerf is making ks viable) > buff assa until it s op > nerf assa suddenly and boom sub is meta last pitch of the season

[vestal escarp]

what about pirates^

[hazy breach]

Good thing we got nerfed by 4% before the tier started

[vestal escarp]

checkmate

[molten citrus]

fix inc

[paper iron]

this balance patch is kinda disappointing on some notes. Devoker buff???? Fire nerf only 3%???? ww still rock ????? assa giga buff not touching sub ????? boomie got actually buffed in aoe not in ST ?????

[vestal escarp]

like, sub could have not eaten all those late ptr nerfs, be moderately cracked like some specs are rn and still have eaten 4% nerfs every 3 weeks

[patent crystal]

and tierset nerf, even though they were a little warranted

[tepid trellis]

WW bis sim going from 2.94 to 2.84

WOW

[gritty knot]

Can't wait for all those sub rerollers play that spec suddenly and then have eviscerate as r1 dmg source like I've seen a lot lately

[stiff kiln]

buff on assa not looks great tbh idk

[hazy breach]

How is boomy getting buffed on aoe

[paper iron]

but still as i already said multiples time, sub is in a good state and it s fine, didnt deserve a buff (neither did assa)

[hazy breach]

Is wrath cleaving or something

[vestal escarp]

WW spun the roulette this patch

[strange rover]

are you trolling they are already strong in keys with this buff they gona crank

[paper iron]

have u seen starfire?

[brisk raptor]

So is everyone now thinking assa is going to outsim sub?

[hazy breach]

Well the damage buff is only to the primary target

[paper iron]

isnt this linar calling massiv

oh

you right

it s primary target

[strange rover]

i mean i wouldnt mind to play assa if it wasnt such boring doghist spec

[jaunty umbra]

boomy is giga in m+ now or

[stiff kiln]

don't meant keys i'm talking for raids

[patent surge]

Geargrinder is buffed like a lot man

[bleak night]

well

[gritty knot]

Well it is what it is guys. At least we know one things certain. People in this channel are highly intelligent

[bleak night]

the buffs both work against each other in m+

since you dont cast wrath at all in elune build

[strange rover]

assa needs to be moved to 0 iq

[bleak night]

so its not a huge buff for them in m+ no

they were already very good though

[patent surge]

Assa with deathstalker is pretty intelligent i think

Complicated

[jaunty umbra]

you cast star surge and starfire

[worn ivy]

losersw buffing assa still

[strange rover]

your username says it all

[worn ivy]

i cannot believe

[patent surge]

[jaunty umbra]

so yes they got huge buffs in m+

[worn ivy]

WHow iwn the hwell they bwuffing aswsa

assa

[bleak night]

yes, neither of those are very large buffs though

[patent surge]

Caught me

[bleak night]

yes its a buff, no its not very large

[jaunty umbra]

sure

[past marlin]

clown company clown class balance

[vestal escarp]

main spec

start to get used to it

[patent surge]

Im just wondering if subtlety is still strong enough in raid

[rustic raven]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[strange chasm]

It will be strong still in rogue terms lmao

[patent surge]

[tepid trellis]

sub is still good at padding

just sucks at everything else

[strange chasm]

Ass caustic spatter though

[patent surge]

Cuz i got like perfect stats for sub

[tepid trellis]

Assa cant snipe adds

they way sub can

[strange rover]

yeah they made first 4 bosses with tones of pad so sub looks good for now aswell as outlaw

[patent surge]

M7 is assa only imo

[strange chasm]

I think outlaw is underrated and under represented.

[patent surge]

buy what about st

[vestal escarp]

outlul could have chowed a 2-3% tho

just for spite

[paper iron]

now the only niche sub has is yoinking fast aoe during CDs

😎

sub good only on rik

gg

[worn ivy]

i rather

not playinwg rogue than wplaying assa in dungeopn

[vestal escarp]

drenched in the blood of your enemies

[tepid trellis]

what if i told you that dev evoker now sims the same as WW did before the nerfs?

[paper iron]

i m not suprised

as i told

our devoker

[tepid trellis]

they literally just swapped around WW with dev

[paper iron]

is in shocked rn

u know when they nerfed sub from being the best burst to being the best burst?

they did the same to devoker

[tepid trellis]

this shit is too dumb for me, imma go watch series and pretend this never happened

[paper iron]

buffed from being a great spec to being an event greater spec

[jaunty umbra]

the scalie dev never disappoints

[paper iron]

there must be more lines coming to this patch

[vestal escarp]

good thing i droppped signet!

[paper iron]

i cope

[vestal escarp]

!

[paper iron]

but i cant believe that s it

[hazy breach]

Maybe in 2 weeks or when .5 launches

But until then probably not

[paper iron]

this is just saying "we gonna nerf by 3% mages 15 times in a row until it needs buff"

to me

[bleak night]

well

they have to nerf fire slowly

so they can buff frost or arcane to be even better

so the mages dont get upset

[brisk raptor]

Sub will still be good tho eh? It feels good to me right now and they didn’t change it

[alpine wraith]

good at what

existing

maybe

[paper iron]

i cant read the trinket hotfix, it s a mess to read, i ll wait sims

[ocean star]

kekw

[zenith thorn]

good at RIK REVERB

[paper iron]

Even hacha is losing his mind, no goremaw buff patch number 304104140123

😔

[vestal escarp]

riririririk rriverb

[hazy breach]

Basically all the damage trinkets are now good, play whatever you have the highest ilvl of

[alpine wraith]

nah i already expected you can just go read my messages

they buff assa

[brisk raptor]

Why would it be so much worse now though?

[alpine wraith]

as always

[vestal escarp]

[hazy breach]

Instead of all the stat trinkets being good and play whichever one of those you ahve at the highest ilvl

[zenith thorn]

assa has always been blizz love child for raid

[brisk raptor]

Is the assa buff really that good?

[alpine wraith]

it is not worse nothing has changed apart from assa is better now

[patent surge]

Yeah

5% roughly

st

[paper iron]

i see, got a vexxie geargrinder thing in hc, maybe that s better than my peacemaker thing

kinda that thing

[alpine wraith]

big junkmaestro buff

[brisk raptor]

Ahh yeah that’s pretty big then I suppose

[alpine wraith]

now you can press that button

kek

[green scarab]

Is there any way to filter details to not track 1s fights? Its always bloated on dummies cuz of rupture

[brisk raptor]

Yippeeeee for farming assa gear now lol

[small juniper]

just equip anything u have in ur bags

ggs

[vestal escarp]

pacemaker bis

goodge

love it

ah wrong chat

[hazy breach]

probably not for sin either

Its probably magnet

[bleak night]

apparently magnet and pacemaker are close in st but pacemaker still better in aoe

[mighty citrus]

quick tldr: no transmitter nerf?

[vestal escarp]

el magneto

[bleak night]

thats just preliminary pin info from mr whippet tho

[worn ivy]

i still wcwannot

believe

[hazy breach]

No changes really for sub

[worn ivy]

wtwhey bwuffing asssa

[mighty citrus]

tyty

[tiny sierra]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[west tide]

sin execute gonna be nice…

[young mural]

fuu please dont make me use a damage trinket

[patent surge]

Man with or without execute

sin is insane rn in raid

[lucid jackal]

Dude the one tier I get a fucking bis trinket from my vault they literally buff every trinket

[patent surge]

Imo

[lucid jackal]

Kill me

[patent surge]

couldn't really understand why they buff sin like that lot

[fallow nimbus]

What you got?

[lucid jackal]

Sin is kinda ass this raid

[patent surge]

pure insanity

[lucid jackal]

It's like, good on mugzee

Otherwise it's mid

Buffs make it better on mugzee, can play either now on gally probs

[alpine wraith]

wont be good on mugzee when we get there

[patent surge]

i mean in rogue

[alpine wraith]

will be less than 2 mins

last phase

[lucid jackal]

Yeah I think both sub and outlaw are better than sin rn

[paper iron]

gonna have to start simming assa and hover stuff for it i was happy comiting to sub early for once

[alpine wraith]

so sub just get 2 cds and assa 1

[patent surge]

it's 100s right？

[vale osprey]

Me picking myth track pacemaker in vault on Weds (Already have hero track HoC and Junkmaster's phewf but still a "wasted" vault)

[strange chasm]

pacemaker is bis for sin now 😄 time to swap

[lucid jackal]

Nope!

[paper iron]

for m+ that is, i think that s a lovely buff in raid for assa but it just makes it on par with sub / outlaw noggenfogger

[lucid jackal]

It's worse on oab even with buff

[strange chasm]

You think sin still worse on oab?

[lucid jackal]

100%

[strange chasm]

I think oab is a good outlaw fight

[solemn creek]

Oab?

[undone mesa]

following this sheet, outlaw is the strongest rogue spec overall for m+ content?

[paper iron]

i m thinking about outlaw for oab

[lucid jackal]

Yeh, good sub/otl fight

[paper iron]

yea

one armed bandit

[paper iron]

u cant compare different spec by sim numbers

[dim trail]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-incoming-march-25/2080741

Assa go big

[solemn creek]

Look at log if u wanna compare. Fight by fight

[narrow night]

prob in the fantasy world in which you never fight more then 7 mobs at a time ye

[vale osprey]

Thanks for linking none of us had seen this yet 🙃

[dim trail]

srry

[solemn creek]

The damage profile of each fight is so different from 5 min sim patchwerk

[kind bluff]

I struggle with outlaw and idk why. Sub and sin I can get 95-98 every fight so far but outlaw I can't play for shit

[paper iron]

outlaw takes practice

[strange rover]

whats your age?

[paper iron]

it s super not fail friendly

one mistake and ur gone

(not litteraly one but u got my point)

[undone mesa]

yeeah i do

[frigid dragon]

I play better as Outlaw than I do the other two specs.

[plush roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[undone mesa]

im really trying to go sub, but this is spec is hard as f

[hazy breach]

Trinket Tuning (Live right now)

Class Tuning for other specs (Live with weekly reset)

Basically all damage trinkets are now good, play whichever one you have at the highest ilvl as your second trinket besides House of Cards.
Thats stuff like Magnet/Spare Keys/Honey Buzzer/Wax whistle/Grim Codex.
Zee's Thug hotline is like 0.2% ahead of the others with the bis profile, since it is good on shorter fights. (<5 minutes)
If the fight is really long (6+ minutes) Eye of Kezan is still good.

[paper iron]

Bye eye of kezan

was good to hold u

😔

🤭

[kind bluff]

I've got heroic zees and HoC. So I'm happy lol

[paper iron]

good job eleem

[lucid jackal]

Actually so fucking lame, the one tier I get an insane trinket from vault, it ends up not being good after they buffed every trinket in the game

[strange chasm]

I think eye still will be bis for the longer fights

[vestal escarp]

lucky the guy that got keys for crests i guess

[strange chasm]

anything over 6 mins im pre sure

[paper iron]

yea he edited after i wrote my message ahah

[strange rover]

unlucky 🙂

[paper iron]

It s like that Guy, rogue cant have hapiness, it s against blizzard tos

[lucid jackal]

[strange rover]

based actually 100% real

[small juniper]

unless u play assa

[paper iron]

Every season so far a bullshit happens, amirdrasil hard commited assa early, gg u can respec and play dust sub now

[fallow nimbus]

What you got? I fully upgraded a myth pacemaker

[vestal escarp]

permanently doomed with a boring gameplay

[lucid jackal]

Yep

[paper iron]

tww s1, comit outlaw, gg nerf heroic week go respec

[molten citrus]

i dropped a hero track noggen fogger from my map and its getting nerfed

[paper iron]

[molten citrus]

like come on

[solemn creek]

Im.still questionning the nerf they did 3 days away from patch release

[vestal escarp]

dmg tuning is cope

[molten citrus]

i was so hyped

[paper iron]

i think next season imma commit on the trash rogue spec

[molten citrus]

just to be shit on lmao

[tribal elbow]

is nimble flurry's range big enough to hit the lost souls from draw soul on kultharok in theater of pain when you attack boss and they're up against the wall

[small juniper]

same

[fallow nimbus]

We dropped so many spare keys and i have none

[vestal escarp]

we rolled spare keys for crests

lmaoooo

[strange hornet]

what even is the point of a trinket buff like this?

[paper iron]

of they re totally up against the wall, probably not

[hazy breach]

To make damage trinkets less bad

And in the process make stat trinkets bad

[patent surge]

To make damage trinkets less bad

[hazy breach]

[vestal escarp]

cause people were instavendoring them i guess

[patent surge]

But spare key is pretty good for sub now

it will better after that fix

[vestal escarp]

goonsquad

[patent surge]

so pure gain for sub

[hoary lotus]

How they gonna buff sin

Smh

[vestal escarp]

#subtlety message better late than never

[tribal elbow]

ty i'll have to improvise

[strange rover]

zerocool sleeping well tonight i guess

[hoary lotus]

I swear to God if the lingering darkness trinket is good now ima kms

[paper iron]

depending on your comp u can just ignore them and start cleaving them when they re closer

[sour forum]

Reee whats the verdict what forsaken BS trinket i gotta farm now

[paper iron]

if u re in voice with a premade u can also just call if u can do damage on it or nah, playing double rogue we often call who s gonna dance sectech on them in a bit higher keys like 14

[solemn creek]

I got whistleblower trinket last week in vault. But it was mid. So i didnt take.. looka like i should have. 😡

[molten citrus]

sim

droptimizer

[sour forum]

😦 fineeee

[hazy breach]

Goonsquad on short fights

kezan on long fights

[sour forum]

1 more assa buff and we swap anyway, just like last tier

[jaunty heath]

Well

[undone mesa]

!sd

[jaunty heath]

You swap

Not we

[gritty knot]

Any guess for m+ yet ?

[undone mesa]

someone have the shadowdance macro?

xd

[paper iron]

for the backstab?

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[undone mesa]

that one, tyy

[hybrid tree]

quick question regarding the tricks node on trickster, i see a tricks buff for 30 secs still after taking the 1hr node, do i not have to press tricks at all anymore after pressing it once on tank?

[hazy breach]

Hit a mob

[sour forum]

Cheers, i got some mastery weird trinket from delve. Sims better than heroic kazan atm lol

[hazy breach]

It makes the 6 second threat transfer window 60 minutes, not the 30s pre-window

[paper iron]

and so when your tnak dies, it send all the threat to him and mob evade until they snap and kill him when he s the less prepared

[hybrid tree]

ah i see

[paper iron]

i genuilly hate it sometimes

[hybrid tree]

LMAO

[paper iron]

best thing that happened to me was on rookery last pack, he died, and since he respawn on the upper floor and blizzard cant handle verticality since 2004

he s getting meleed from them

[silent ruin]

It's actually useful, if mobs are low n tank dies

[jaunty heath]

Cinderbrew is fun

[paper iron]

oh yea they go through doors and stuff

[misty condor]

Adding to the Tricks of the Trade question, does it get cancelled if the tricked target died? Or only if the rogue tha tapplied it dies?

[jaunty heath]

I pulled the whole bossroom of ipa and group pulled right side first pack

Huge pack

We died but

[hazy breach]

It doesnt get cancelled

[jaunty heath]

Surely we see something like that in the mdi

[tribal elbow]

yeah i'm new to sub, just messing around in +7s at ilvl 641 with no set bonus from this season or last, to see if i like it. very different perspective...

[hazy breach]

No changes really. The damage trinkets went up so theyre less bad.

[gleaming locust]

Honestly it is my least favorite key to do in a long time

[jaunty heath]

Oh yeah the key itself isn’t great

[bleak night]

cinderbrew is fun on boomkin

[jaunty heath]

Just having fun with friends and snapping mobs through walls is fun

[paper iron]

the design of sub is either hit or miss, big bonk during cd then chill alt tab do some amazon shopping check what s happening on twitter, then come back and bonk again

[bleak night]

its fun finding dumb stuff in keys

[hybrid tree]

my priest friend mind controlled 1 mob in brew and it snapped the 4 men upstairs into the bee boss

lol

and snapped a bunch of random mobs

really weird

[bleak night]

ik motherlode is old so people probably already knew this, but you can get the thugs before first boss to knock you onto the roof of buildings

[jaunty heath]

Yeah we‘ll see a lot of cooks in that dungeon

[bleak night]

and just avoid everything

lmao

[jaunty heath]

Im actually excited to see that

Not a huge mdi fan but watching this one

[bleak night]

found that out accidentally while playing boomie

[hybrid tree]

well mdi is basically tgp now and there is no mdi as it was before anymore right

[tribal elbow]

i know, it's been killing me in low keys because i'll make a poor decision and do big CDs on a single pack. the pack melts so quickly that the pug tank then chains into an irresponsible next pull while i'm in reading emails mode

[jaunty heath]

There is

They are doing mdi and tgp both in one tier

[safe widget]

I enjoy outlaw and Sub in M+ and raiding. But dps seems lacking. And with the 8 target hit cap in M+, I’m more willing to swap to sub. How’s it playing this season?

[jaunty umbra]

saw a clip of some mob in floodgate when MCed that pulls the whole first area

[bleak night]

the demolitionist guy ye

he just straight up targets every enemy in los

lmao

[hybrid tree]

lmao the demo guy yeah

that was nuts

[jaunty umbra]

so funny

[paper iron]

you ll get it, it s a lot about understanding your strenght and how to play arround them

[paper iron]

i think that was jsut a S1 thing, they re just doing one of them this season and add another week on it

if i ve read stuff correctly

[jaunty heath]

So just mdi this time around

[paper iron]

Also they copypasted fearless from riot, the most played specs are banned after day 1

[jaunty heath]

Well I guess participation is lower when you do both

It’s just prep from mdi into prep for tgp

Which sounds draining

[alpine wraith]

tbh i like that

fearless makes things cooler

[jaunty heath]

Fearless is cool ye

[paper iron]

yea but

[bleak night]

its called mdi but its about pushing keys now like tgp

[paper iron]

the issue with the way it s done in wow

is that it s just for the first day

[bleak night]

plus with fearless which is funny as fuck

[paper iron]

not the last days

so u play it just differently

should have been for all stage of the competition and i would have really liked it

[bleak night]

the better teams will just play worse specs day 1 then use the real specs day 2 to push tiebreakers

and the worse teams get fucked

[tribal blade]

looks like sub is about to become irrelevant after the next tuning patch in keys

damn

[dusty totem]

Yeah

[paper iron]

yea it was already bad (imo)

now it s gone

[edgy zenith]

?

[tribal blade]

well it wasn't TURBO bad like the start of S1

sub is quite decent right now

[alpine wraith]

we just do nothing special

[tribal blade]

but these changes are gonna bump it out of being decent

[alpine wraith]

as always

[paper iron]

i feel like sub is decent below 15

[edgy zenith]

I think our ST is pretty special

[alpine wraith]

have you seen ww

[paper iron]

above 15 for the whole season it s gonna be just a spec that does speed shroud u sometimes

just for speed

[edgy zenith]

"have you seen one class that is like turbo crazy broken"

[paper iron]

but u know

i think that about all 3 rogue specs currentlyu

[edgy zenith]

yeah of course, but like WW is NUTS rn

[tribal blade]

i agree, great ST

[alpine wraith]

and they also have a buff

same with enh

or even feral

they give motw

we give

[tribal blade]

but yeah we don't bring anything really special

[paper iron]

SPEEDSHROUD

[tribal blade]

hacha right

[paper iron]

WE GIVE SPEED

[alpine wraith]

a paltry dr or some extra as

[paper iron]

on a 6mn cd

[hazy breach]

3

[alpine wraith]

3 and speed

maybe sub is played on ToP

big bosses big speed

tech

[paper iron]

sub sounds good in top

but then u think about CDs

[dusty totem]

Yeah i think sub is still better timer on top

[paper iron]

and i feel like everything collapse

[alpine wraith]

we are actally very good on xav

[paper iron]

the lich area sucks for sub timings

[tribal blade]

@hazy breach btw for some of these massive pulls in keys i'm spreading rupture outside cds but it feels like i could be doing more just pressing BP, what do you think

[sour forum]

rn i play sub in rookeri, top sometimes mechagon if im too lazy to switch

[tribal elbow]

yeah it's been a fun experience :D

[paper iron]

^

actually

in workshop

sub is doing good

[alpine wraith]

floodgate is super good for sub too

[hazy breach]

If the targets live for most of it no

[paper iron]

not doing anything special, but doing good

[hazy breach]

BP just doesnt do much outside dance

[paper iron]

floodgate is really a sin realm

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1184888068264689756/1352787688977338528/image.png?ex=67df4936&is=67ddf7b6&hm=185570d7311e2d1b0fd589d8b03c75266ad81ddf794cb340e367294b3a056834&

[alpine wraith]

you get lots of tfd and supecharged tech

[paper iron]

this is floodgate

[sour forum]

rookeri and top are rly good for sub i feel

[pastel rampart]

sub is op on xav because u can absolutely farm ppl in the 1v1

[paper iron]

sub cant reach that ever

[edgy zenith]

no way, especially if you have CDs coming up soon and are spreading ruptures. having like 6-8 ruptures rolling CDs is BIG fucking dam, you can't have that if you are spamming BP outside of CDs

[dusty totem]

The difficult part is finding keys where sub is good but where sin is not better

[tribal blade]

oh yeah before cds for sure

but i'm sometimes going to rupture spreading after flag is over

[hazy breach]

Sub is gonna be alright in keys

[tribal blade]

i feel like i'm thinking too much, should just be pressing BP and ookook dam

[paper iron]

and anyway, it s not about overall, it s just rogue brings nothing, all 3 specs

[hazy breach]

But why not play assa which does some of the highest aoe in the entire game instead

[sour forum]

10s are melting idd Kappa

[tribal blade]

i started setting up my sin gear

for some of these dungeons

because sub feels so mid in mass aoe

[paper iron]

Yea i ve to elaborate, rogue will be fine unless u push for top world key level, it s gonna be able to get title and all of that

imo

[sour forum]

priory, cinder, darkflame, flood have assa written on them