wait true
#subtlety
alpine wraith
so the double dmg is around almost double to him too
crystal bone
ez +1 key level
alpine wraith
nah boss is a joke anyway
and most classes also cleave from it
idk how fire mage works with it tho
you can send sec tech on boss and evises on add
for maximum performance
alpine wraith
sec tech main target takes more dmg
wooden hare
Does anyone know if you can cleave onto the jail adds off of Mugzee?
hazy breach
As sub no
wooden hare
damn, ty
paper iron
once again, ignite op op ðŸ¤
wicked joltBOT
Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0
sly shore
alpine wraith
another one free from the curse
eternal hawk
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
jaunty umbra
also got this 2nd delve on my dh 
hallow sigil
any1 using the magnet already? how does that trinket work do you only use it on high stacks or do you just use it on cd?
molten citrus
also got this 2nd delve on my dh <:kekman:1069601603860037723>
yeh it was my 2nd
i got a bounty map from my 1st delve then energy drink from 2nd AND looted a 2nd bounty at the same time as the energy drink
like wtf
i can do like 8 delves and get no bounty on rogue 30+ delves and no good loot at all 
jaunty umbra
2 bounty maps ?!
molten citrus
yeah
jaunty umbra
i thought they capped at 1 per week now
molten citrus
i did the first delve last reset
idk if they're capped tho
because you can do like 3-4 per week afaik
but idk
im no delve expert
sly shore
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8XR7htnrTWY2bsVV654m8o tfd equal to WM over 5m for me
alpine wraith
ye tfd is very good overall
molten citrus
does doing a bounty map put the wave2000 shit on CD?
even on diff chars?
did the bounty map on DH and my rogue's wave2000 is on 24hr CD lol
sturdy moat
for high M+ which of the two do you guys usually take? the one that gives 8% more healing or the one that heals u off finishers
alpine wraith
finishers
sturdy moat
and what about elusiveness or cheat death, dungeon specific?
iron mauve
Why does ST builds use Replicating shadows instead of gloomblade?
vale pine
because it sims higher
iron mauve
for me gloomblade sim higher
vale pine
if gloomblade sims higher for you, also great
iron mauve
is a lot of rogues talents based on stats?
vale pine
one additional option you have is to move rotten to one point of finality
it might be based on gear levels
hazy breach
Well you cant pick gloomblade instead of replicating
Because you shouldnt have the talent above it
vale pine
oh right, it misses improved sht
iron mauve
ohhh
olive canyon
How is sub simming vs sin at the moment?
vale pine
no
i mean you can use sf
so you can go GB
unless you have more targets, in which case you would use improved storm
vale pine
How is sub simming vs sin at the moment?
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
patent lichen
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
olive canyon
Thank you
crystal bone
which one do u guys prefer to run in keys?
alpine wraith
always fade for me
im using vanish to get tfd going early
for bosses and pulls where i have cds sometimes
crystal bone
yea makes sense
keen dome
Ye, fade
hazy breach
Dont see any reason to ever use cloaked
Its only 18% shield VS 10% damage reduction
And the damage reduction is up on dance as well
keen dome
I run Bond in raid, execution in M+
crystal bone
i like that idea
keen dome
Execution is really nice in keys. Big shields
olive canyon
in between cds - do you just send your dance with symbols/sec tec
clever delta
damn i went from topping hc bosses to not see myself on bosses in one week 
spec fall off really quick
alpine wraith
it is what it is
keen dome
😨
alpine wraith
that is from the nemesis chest likely
loot from bountiful is 639
there are diff chests
nemesis and bountil chests are adventurer the one you open with key 639
alpine wraith
i got a warbound one too
molten citrus
im just laughing at my luck rn
hazy breach
Semi
sudden breach
mastery verse on every piece except tier 😮
spring zenith
I switched from 2p and 2p to full 4set.. do people feel like their dps is actually gone lower? What should i do different on rota rn ?
hallow yacht
I am still confused on the AoE rotation.. I am applying rupture to as many targets as I can, and then just basically doing the single target rotation? I'll also throw in a SS to get Fazed on targets. When should I be using BP?
lilac stag
I switched from 2p and 2p to full 4set.. do people feel like their dps is actual...
Wrong channel. #assassination
shy ermine
i'm definitely farming a badge
remote rapids
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
I am still confused on the AoE rotation.. I am applying rupture to as many targe...
basically send CDs as soon as they’re ready & mobs are gathered. Storm the second builder if 7+ mobs. BP over Evis at 7+
hallow yacht
basically send CDs as soon as they’re ready & mobs are gathered. Storm the secon...
Okay, so the only real difference is whether or not 7+ targets. If it's 7, use SecTec when you can as a finisher, otherwise SS and BP on spam?
lilac stag
We just cleave. We don’t really aoe
No you’re still using coup
There aren’t that many larger pulls
hallow yacht
I am thninking like the first pull of Workshop or Meadery as exmaples in my head.
lilac stag
sure
spring zenith
no?
hallow yacht
I have watched some videos of people getting their AoE DPS up to around 7-8M on the 4 target dummines in Dorn. I can barely manage to break 5. I am wondering what I am doing massively wrong for that low of DPS
I am 655ilvl with 2 piece tier at the moment.
For trinkets, I have Improvised Seaforiuem and Signet. Yes, I understand Signet is not ideal, but I don't believe that is the loss of such a massive amount of DPS.
lilac stag
4 targets isn’t aoe for sub. It’s just st rotation. Your 2 min trinket sucks. Farm 700 conquest for badge. Get tier.
Yes it’s massive
Dorm dummies also don’t work correctly with nimble
hazy breach
Think theyre fixed, but idk wouldnt trust it still
lilac stag
Oh really.
dry jacinth
Witht he 4 piece bonus. are we supposed to play around that at all this season? or are people fully passive about it?
lilac stag
unless it’s basically right before flag ignore it
hallow sigil
Damn man blasting. How the hell 
cobalt vector
Witht he 4 piece bonus. are we supposed to play around that at all this season? ...
Only thing is it is really important u chain ur dances properly, dont wanna accidently drop stacks mid burst.
But u should be doing that anyway
clever delta
no but we are so behind now
when ppl actually have gear
sweating my ass off with tranmistter
two season in row
bleak night
jokes on you
shouldve just not played last season so you never had transmitter to begin with
alpine wraith
it is only a 0.6% loss for me pog
vale pine
man if they dont send class tunning next week
wdym tuning, game is tuned the best it has ever been i assume
at least thats what i kept hearing every tier for the last ~2 years
from content creators
alpine wraith
unless you are an aug
bleak night
i mean it has been pretty well tuned the last couple years
as much as people meme heroic week tuning i think not having it this time definitely hurt
clever delta
i think i can just play better pvp trinket and make up for difference
should be easy
rustic mortar
i was denied champion -> mythic shoulder upgrade becauser the ww has more upgrade from max hero to mythic because he is already simming 2,6 million while im kreeping arround 2.1 oder 2.2
so put out some fucking classchanges
spice matrix
i was denied champion -> mythic shoulder upgrade becauser the ww has more upgrad...
Get ready for the WW to win house of cards too
vale pine
i mean it *has* been pretty well tuned the last couple years
it always depends how you look at balancing
and whats important for you
rustic mortar
no that will go to the frost dk which rerolled to unholy so he had a 5x dps upgrade that me
so
rustic mortar
i will game with this all season
past token
im having so much trouble playing downtime in raids, any chance i could get a log review?
vale pine
type !log
marsh magnet
Culminating Blasphemite is this gem the one that gives the dmg from the wep embellish or the other one?
past token
!log
hazy breach
Culminating Blasphemite is this gem the one that gives the dmg from the wep emb...
Any gem whatsoever
So it doesnt matter
alpine wraith
actually the blasphemite is the only one that does not work with lens
so at least need one of the elemental ones
do remember that you can get 2 sockets on neck/rings
with an item that can be bough on ah
void hound
vale pine
congrats
alpine wraith
my guild killed stix
vale pine
meanwhile, my orb is doing suicide
crystal bone
wait can i not socket the pvp neck?
alpine wraith
you need the pvp sockets
vale pine
pvp has diffrent gem socket items
alpine wraith
5k honor and 3 pvp rubies
west tide
wait can i not socket the pvp neck?
get to farmin buddy
the rubies are 2.5k honor each as well
crystal bone
zzzzzzz
west tide
can u buy the rubies on the ah?
ashen terrace
Yeah
hexed dagger
my transmitter orb literally climbed vertically up the wall in lockenstock's room
so sick
alpine wraith
you can buy rubies on ah
alpine wraith
my transmitter orb literally climbed vertically up the wall in lockenstock's roo...
it can also go down the tracks
crystal bone
where do i buy the stuff
honor quartermaster?
o nm
i need 4k more honor
ugh
or i craft a 675 one next week
honest saddle
remember when outlaw spent all of ptr dooming
cant play outlaw this tier, its deadge
lucid jackal
cant play outlaw this tier, its deadge
The outlaw channel is both the smartest and the dumbest channel by far
Its for sure the most dramatic, and its not close
twilit phoenix
leaden prairie
meanwhile, my orb is doing suicide
i would have jumped after it
twilit phoenix
did you get benched on stix?
vale pine
i would have jumped after it
haha, i wish i would get house of cards
crystal bone
no im starting rik reverb prog this weekend
vale pine
had enough of this trinket last season
twilit phoenix
richard reverberation?
crystal bone
yea thats what i was gonna try, learned that earlier today
twilit phoenix
trying to decide between holding cds for after the flight bs
vale pine
depending on yoru raid, might be worth to delay flag for the first barrels
crystal bone
but was told if u hold then u have good timings for adds?
lucid jackal
any real deals
vale pine
how is it compared to season 1
season 1 challange was a bit annoying because of how long it took especially early on with meh gear
vale pine
did not miss out on much
lucid jackal
Took 6-7 minsish
lucid jackal
You just send Cd's and then run around and kick balls into adds until he does shield
Send either symbols or flag into shield
Takes a bit but it's fun
Good title for it
"the real deal"
bleak wind
any real deals
soooo late... 
deft bobcat
is sub best spec for underpin boss?
dusty totem
On bandit do u guys vanish the fixate or is it trolling?
clever delta
fuck
vale pine
soooo late... <:2ez:587982296066424843>
nicu
lucid jackal
is sub best spec for underpin boss?
I liked it the most
U should probs just play something ur comfy with tho either way
and have more gear for
cunning turret
anyone got an issue with hoc desyncing from sblades?
I've noticed it happen, but only in m+
lucid jackal
cuz its better
lilac stag
That’s the largest possible dps gain
dusty totem
flawless form and flag
small hemlock
ok cool ty
dusty totem
u have more stacks of both on the 2nd sec tech
dusty totem
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.U can macro sec tech and cold blood as long as u have another keybind where it is not macroed
lilac stag
ill need to unmaro that to sectec
Just add a non macro version of Sectech. Leave the cb macro for second cast
vestal escarp
F sF
small hemlock
yea
vestal escarp
lucid jackal
why is it a gain
cuz flag is ramped
small hemlock
ye makes sense
turbid roost
is sub harder to play then assasination?
frigid prawn
!wa
wicked joltBOT
turbid roost
it looks like its a decent bit better in keys though rn right?
slate marlin
how do u fix coup not going off?
molten citrus
how do u fix coup not going off?
relog
magic kernel
I’m seem to be struggling with sub, I think I’m being too impatient with Symbols and dance. Do you generally hold them only for major cds?
sand monolith
So somethign I've been wondering is does Feint work against single target casts against you like Savage Mauling from Capt Dalicry?
hazy breach
So somethign I've been wondering is does Feint work against single target casts ...
Theres no way of knowing without trying and/or checking logs
wild spindle
Does bubbling wax have enough impact to viably run in any content or is it just a meme?
hazy breach
That attack specifically no
sand monolith
Hmm that means if your healer is not on point, you should just spec into the elusiveness instead of cheat death
ig
lilac stag
it looks like its a decent bit better in keys though rn right?
assa does more aoe dmg with a lot more consistency. Sub pumps boss dmg and has a good bit of downtime between cds.
hazy breach
Hmm that means if your healer is not on point, you should just spec into the elu...
Think you can evasion it too, but its more of a dps thing since it stops doing it once you break the shield
sand monolith
Oh yeah that's nother thing. If my cloak doesn't stop the hit, that means I can evasion it right?
hazy breach
Nop
vestal escarp
vale pine
why isnt tuning announced
if we see tuning, we will see it with the next reset
hazy breach
Oh yeah that's nother thing. If my cloak doesn't stop the hit, that means I can ...
Theres literally no consistent way of knowing besides trying or checking logs
That goes for evasion, feint, cloak and vanish
wild spindle
anyone any info on bubbling wax at all?
vale pine
defensives always need to be tested, many mechanical implementations are diffrent, so there is usually no consistency
but you can assumpe physical attacks to be evadable
hazy breach
Ive written up some of the most unexpected interactions in the dungeon section at the bottom of the page here https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/subtlety-rogue-pve-dps-mythic-plus-tips
vale pine
and aoe attacks to be reduced by feint
hazy breach
anyone any info on bubbling wax at all?
Its fine to use instead of whetstone on ST (sim about the same) but falls of on aoe
Think you can only use one though
Idk
Mostly a meme, but usable if you want
vale pine
you can only use one because it does not stack
wild spindle
yeah can only use one, just was curious on it being a meme mostly for sure
vale pine
its not rly a meme
but also no real reason to use as whetstone is cheap and consistent
wild spindle
that makes sense go for the direct buff over a proc
sturdy moat
do you guys go tricks and the 1hr tricks talent for m+?
lucid jackal
yeah?
lucid lily
Yes and I’m so glad they finally got rid of the tricks icon over our heads
hazy breach
I've been waisting so much energy
Ye like i said, no real consistency, that shit should 100% be feintable but it isnt 
sand monolith
do you guys go tricks and the 1hr tricks talent for m+?
I don't
hazy breach
And lots of dots that shouldnt be are also feintable
sand monolith
Ye like i said, no real consistency, that shit should 100% be feintable but it i...
Yeah I'm reading through every single one of these like huh, that's so silly
Evasion dodging rock casts would;'ve been useful knowledge a week ago
stone patrol
Hello boys, 3rd boss Myth with 2 sub rogues..does 1 need to delay cds for adds? Both in adds is overkill..we have add problems and we have to delay cds..
vale pine
Evasion dodging rock casts would;'ve been useful knowledge a week ago
you usually test every physical attack with evasion as a rogue ^^
at least thats what i do typically
sand monolith
If it's a grey cast on the bar, is that a physical attack?
vale pine
you know from the damage type
sand monolith
Soooo death recap?
vale pine
if it does magic damage, it usually is not evedable
stone patrol
Personally, I always make sure SecTec is up for barrels
Sectec sure ok but then you often delay big cds another 30 secs
vale pine
you can check in the dungeon journal, think mdi tools shows mobs/casts too, else can also check on websites like wowhead
i kind of hate how inconsistent stuff is
some things you 100% think you should be able to cloak
you can't
for example
and as eleem mentioned, some things are weird that feint works on them
lean cradle
is house of cards heroic trinket that good that its worth taking over myth track neck "crit/vers"? yeah, sims are telling me house of cards but i hesitate to take heroic track trinket from vault tbh
vale pine
house of cards is rly good
best trinket this season
used together with a passive option
sour void
its also inconsitent if cloak will work or not. For example 3rd boss on motherlode
vale pine
you can alternatively get the pvp trinket
vale pine
which is close-ish in value
swift tinsel
yep
vale pine
AND NOT GETTING CONSUMED
rip
hazy breach
its also inconsitent if cloak will work or not. For example 3rd boss on motherlo...
Huh
sour void
You can cloak that the rain of liquid will not spawn but it can also spawn and dmg you despite cloak up
vale pine
keep in mind that cloak has a "stronger" immunity shortly after used
which can be used too
so cloak always has 2 things to test
hazy breach
Hidden extra mechanic thats never explained but sometimes the first second immunes things the rest of it doesnt
sour void
You can completly deny her casting of azerite catalyst with cloak
But that doesnt always work
hazy breach
If you show me a log of it not working i can almost guarantee you that you didnt have the first second of cloak up for it
vale pine
some knockbacks can be dissabled by using cloak at the rigth time for example
sour void
still the dmg effect is fire dmg and the ground stuff also or not ?
I should be immune during cloak
lean cradle
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
warm marlin
Ive written up some of the most unexpected interactions in the dungeon section a...
first second of cloak immunes the dot on 2nd boss priory
timing is a bit wacky though
open vortex
You can take two stacks, cloak it off and take another one
young mural
trinket de-syncing with CDs was driving me insane, I had to go farm this BS
hallow sigil
You can completly deny her casting of azerite catalyst with cloak
also works with vanish/shadowmeld
worked everytime for me so far
steel zinc
novel plaza
during AOE situation in SD window with >7 targets do I coup de gras or not as finisher? Icyveins guide says yes but wowhead doesnt mention
hazy breach
Yes use coup immediately once its ready
final holly
Is there a good tool for figuring out who the pi target should be in raid? I know bloodmallet exists but that assumes all things equal, I want a tool that can look at a log and tell you where and when PI should have been used. I'm getting PI at the moment and I'm pretty sure that's just wrong
young mural
Is there a good tool for figuring out who the pi target should be in raid? I kno...
if youre a sub rogue, youre 1000% not supposed to be recieving PI
paper iron
and only trust people who can sim
and you d rather pi a tank than a sub most of the time
young mural
facts
final holly
We have a prot pally that honestly pumps so he'd probably be a better target I imagine lmao
young mural
veng DH and guard druid probably benefit more from PI compared to sub rogues lmao
young mural
PI the fire mage or destro warlock
final holly
Like here's our gally kill for the week, maybe just seeing this will explain why bloodmallet rankings alone might not tell the whole story:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xVp9vA8mrMDgNwWG?fight=15&type=damage-done
solemn creek
Wdym
U got targeted by pi. But. I dont understand your conclusion
In 10000% case. U shouldnt have
young mural
Like here's our gally kill for the week, maybe just seeing this will explain why...
give PI to elemental
final holly
I'm aware I shouldn't have
young mural
next question
final holly
I just wanted to know if there was a tool to figure out who the best pi target is in scuffed raids where people are wide ranges of ilvl and skill
warped ferry
Whats the max ilvl i can get for the pvp trink assuming im a normy pve player and i just crate farm?
young mural
Whats the max ilvl i can get for the pvp trink assuming im a normy pve player an...
658 like everyone else
solemn creek
I just wanted to know if there was a tool to figure out who the best pi target i...
There isnt.
warped ferry
Okay perfect, better than 639
solemn creek
But if someone is struggling to do his burst in cd
Then pi is wasted on said individual
young mural
But if someone is struggling to do his burst in cd
literally better to give it to a struggling elemental shaman compared to a sub rogue
solemn creek
That we all agree on
young mural
sub literally 2nd worst dps spec to recieve PI
solemn creek
The question was what can we tell from.the log. And beside checking each player of your team if they are doing something good or bad during the 2 min cd. U cant tell from a log alone
U should use that for pi value
sand monolith
trinket de-syncing with CDs was driving me insane, I had to go farm this BS
How long did it take to do? I've been debating getting it too. Hate pvp too
young mural
How long did it take to do? I've been debating getting it too. Hate pvp too
im not sure, maybe 30-45mins worth of crate farming?
aroun that
30-1hr max
young mural
look for crate farming groups in LFR
they're groups that fly around the open world opening the PvP crates that spawn for 60 conquest each
sand monolith
Oh, I've never done war mode
runic sleet
trinket de-syncing with CDs was driving me insane, I had to go farm this BS
does it work well for sub too?
heard its only op on outlaw.
clever delta
man im SO DONE with transm
like
it ruined both my stix and rik kills today
cant be playing trinket which need cloak to be used
sullen hare
does it work well for sub too?
It's better than accidentally not using your transmitter because it's 5-10 seconds offset from your cooldowns
slate marlin
get pvp one
mystic minnow
It's better than accidentally not using your transmitter because it's 5-10 secon...
Wait this was happening to me last night and I have it macro’d to flag. Is transmitter bugged or something?
slate marlin
affix reduces the cd on your cds, so they will be off every time it appears
molten citrus
heard its only op on outlaw.
outlaw can use the other pvp trinket, not the one he linked. and i wouldn't call it op
the on use pvp trinket is pretty strong for sub tho yes
mystic minnow
affix reduces the cd on your cds, so they will be off every time it appears
Ahh that makes sense and also makes me angry, thanks.
north coral
!wa
wicked joltBOT
lone halo
Hey guys. Anyone running Eye in keys?
hoary light
for our 4 set, do we stack faster or get double stacks (16 max vs 8)
lone halo
Im finding that stacks just seem to hard to get
hazy breach
Hey guys. Anyone running Eye in keys?
If you stay in combat its good
lucid jackal
Guys
lucid jackal
not really
shrewd lantern
blue circles break shields around the pylons
only diff i can really see for melee?
alpine wraith
you need to charge more the pylons
also frontal has to be soaked more and if you drop below 75% you get charmed
shrewd lantern
otherwise you follow and hit boss for melee im guessing
alpine wraith
for melee basically you have times where you have to hold position for a bit
so it does not drop the pylon on melee
shrewd lantern
also frontal has to be soaked more and if you drop below 75% you get charmed
oh thats how the charm works
shrewd lantern
hold position as in?
alpine wraith
wait a bit with zap before going to pop the shield
otherwise you can bait the amplifier onto the other one
stacking 2
shrewd lantern
oof
alpine wraith
making it dangerous in the interphase
terse ravine
is Eye of Kezan worth it for M+ ? The damage/heal at max stacks seem super underwhelming and the downtimes in some dungeons look meh for the stacking mechanic.
lone halo
is Eye of Kezan worth it for M+ ? The damage/heal at max stacks seem super under...
i was just asking the same thing.
hazy breach
Ye the damage is underwhelming because it gives an absurd amount of stats
If you can keep the stacks up its insane
lone halo
Can you use a target dummy to preload it?
hazy breach
No
lone halo
what about in raid prior to pull
terse ravine
I think that if you average 13 stacks in m+ is pretty much the same as all the other passive trinkets in terms of stats.
of course if you can keep it higher it's worth it, but for dungeons like Theater, seems a bad choice
clever delta
its time
hazy breach
Can you use a target dummy to preload it?
You cant put down dummies in raid or dungeons
shrewd lantern
otherwise you can bait the amplifier onto the other one
btw do you send cds on pull
paper surge
there is something about sub in m+ that is kind of confusing me.. the down time.. do i send everything as it comes up? do i send everything sit on stuff while i wait for everything to come back up? yall know of a video or guide or anything like that that goes over this?
hazy breach
Its the same as in raids really
The most important thing is making sure you always get 2x sectech, 2x symbols and 2x dances in flag and blades
paper surge
kk
in raids i send everything and once its all back send it again lol
if im doing that wrong ill have to go back to the drawing board lmao
shrewd lantern
your damage outside flag and blades is kind of memeworthy
small hemlock
is the pre symbols worth it on a 10s pull timer
hazy breach
No
lucid jackal
Just do it right when u get res'd
small hemlock
ok ty
hazy breach
Do it once you get ressed ye
hazy breach
any real deals
Doesnt this fight just suck lmao
hazy breach
ok is there a residual buff we are farming from it then
Supercharged CPs
The rotten is whatever
lucid jackal
Doesnt this fight just suck lmao
Its a bit of a headache but I did nt hate it
small hemlock
just been playing sub the same way i played it in DF getting round to reading it now
got some ok parses but some are sad af
lucid jackal
Subs damage profile makes it fun cuz u just do ur cds then run around and play kickball
hazy breach
Idk i felt like it would often just land right next to them and not blow up
bleak night
Doesnt this fight just suck lmao
i'd argue its more fair than zekvir tbh
you can avoid basically all the damage by dealing with the adds properly
bleak night
zekvir was kind of just kick the boss and hope you stat check him
hazy breach
Atleast imo
bleak night
oh its not fun yeah
mainly because interacting with the bombs is a pita
even with interact key bound
hazy breach
And slidy oil
bleak night
and cds not resetting after a wipe
hazy breach
Which i cant kite away from because brann is stupid and the boss runs to brann even if i dont have tricks
bleak night
actually yeah this fight fucking sucks
small hemlock
ok the only shit im doing wrong is the 2nd sec tec and the backsab for the macabre stacks i think
bleak night
the oil i didnt have much of an issue with, but the boss also kind of just ignored brann for me
sometimes he would target him with a flamethrower or crush but otherwise i could get him to move around the room with me
lucid jackal
Idk i felt like it would often just land right next to them and not blow up
A bit yeah
TOok like 7 or so attempts
I mean I love these shitty solo contents so
I had fun
bleak night
Is it character specific of an achieve
arent all achievements warband now anyway
except maybe like m+ title or something idk
hazy breach
There was some duo stuff next patch that could be fun
hazy breach
Hopefully its tuned in a way that makes it fun for me, but im not holding my breath
shrewd lantern
wasnt sure
bleak night
honestly easiest way is probably bm hunter lmao
he doesnt do any damage anyway so just free movement to do adds
small hemlock
so i can just spam a couple symbols before pull for instance if we are on break
and have a full super charged bar
and have full symnols back
alpine wraith
in some dungeons you have some places you can sneak one SoD
like ToP after first boss and after each boss
before taking the minecart
in floodgate also while kelp boss spawns and after it dies
alpine wraith
sometimes it is not super worth do note that
like if you only have 1 charge
better begin the fight with 2
than 1 and 2 chargers
alpine wraith
so you can get an extra dance with SoD after double dancing and tfd
small hemlock
if i can begin combat with 2 and do it then do it
novel plaza
if im still using transmitter is it beter to open with SS>flag>evis>vanish>rupture
or just do the SS>flag>rupture
small hemlock
im im capped out of combat probs worth
alpine wraith
yea basically if you can begin combat with 2 or 1 and close to 2
small hemlock
but if im going into combat with less than one then ive fucked up
alpine wraith
it is usually fine
lucid jackal
if im still using transmitter is it beter to open with SS>flag>evis>vanish>ruptu...
skip vanish
crystal bone
11 priory, im gettin better
also prot warr 4th dps
also this affix is big doo doo
remote rapids
I'm really trying with sub in m+, hated it at the start of the season but slow getting there ... love raid, but keys just feels so strange to me
mossy ledge
question for those who have done rik, is it ideal for me to swap to bombs when they spawn? or is just ST then evis good enough?
celest zodiac
hey, I´m new to sub rogue this patch, can I macro SD and SoD together?
lucid jackal
question for those who have done rik, is it ideal for me to swap to bombs when t...
The boss always dies to damage
You wipe to bombs
lucid jackal
hey, I´m new to sub rogue this patch, can I macro SD and SoD together?
nop
molten citrus
hey, I´m new to sub rogue this patch, can I macro SD and SoD together?
it's generally not advised to do so, no
jaunty heath
Im grateful that I don’t shadowstep outside the arena on gally anymore don’t get me wrong
But shadowstepping on gally is still dog
pliant wren
Anyone farmed pvp trinket by any chance? How long does it take to upgrade it? I started sprocketmonger progress and playing it with fucking transmiter kills me
molten citrus
Anyone farmed pvp trinket by any chance? How long does it take to upgrade it? I ...
a bunch of people have yeah
you upgrade it with pve crests
tidal copper
I know we dont want to macro Cold Blood into Sec Teq since you only want to use it with the 2nd Sec Teq, but can I macro Sec Teq into Cold blood so it uses it right after? similar to Shadowstrike after vanish/Shadow Dance?
hazy breach
Ye
You can have a macro for it, but you need a regular bind for when you dont want to cb
tidal copper
yeah
i'll have one for just SecTech, but if there's not any reason to cast CB without using SecTech right after then i'll put them together for spamming
hazy breach
Put them together 
celest zodiac
a bunch of people have yeah
does it needs to be the conquest one?
celest zodiac
got it, thanks! any recommendations for someone who (almost) never played pvp to get my hands on one? lul
hazy breach
Join a group that farms the war mode crates
forest moss
dailie/weeklies near the pvp vendor
also the wintergrasp quest for 250 conquest (the one to kill 10 npcs)
remote rapids
I might have to give up and go for that trinket too since pacemaker doesn't exist
celest zodiac
Join a group that farms the war mode crates
war mode crates give conquest? didnt know that
does it take too long to farm the 700 conquest?
forest moss
i think i did the 1500 honor epic bg quest, wintergrasp and 1 war crate to get enough for the neck (I think its 575?) took maybe 2/3 hours
i lost every epic bg though
💀
celest zodiac
i lost every epic bg though
i heard that´s the classic pvp exp lol
forest moss
yeah i was hoping for mercenary mode, where you can switch to the opposite faction to queue for BGs - but I think they removed it
i used to switch to alliance and just win 70% of the time
paper iron
u still can i m pretty sure
hazy breach
Its only active if your faction has way more people qeueing than the other
forest moss
it used to be a npc you spoke to
forest moss
jagged coyote
!Wa
wicked joltBOT
hazy breach
If hes not there it means your faction is outnumbered already
paper iron
gosh i hate oribos, leaving this place rn
coarse tundra
how am i supposed to play around shadowcraft?
final holly
You press your finisher twice, sometimes you just play outlaw for a second
rotund depot
I know we arent supposed to bind cooldowns together but is dance/backstab acceptable? sometimes im forgetting to spend my premedition on backstab
lucid jackal
also no
coarse tundra
so i just play like regular and enjoy the proccs
lucid jackal
yep
molten citrus
but gotta go to oribos / dalaran
nah there's one in Dornogal
molten citrus
yeah i was hoping for mercenary mode, where you can switch to the opposite facti...
still exists yeah, there's an NPC in the training dummy area of Dorn
molten citrus
Yeah he’s standing like on the wall outside
Between the cleave pvp dummies and the 5 dummies
hazy breach
paper iron
molten citrus
paper iron
or something something like that
crystal bone
he still got 4 flag windows like every1 else
maybe he cooked there
although a few got 5
hazy breach
paper iron
yea i would bet in couple weeks it will be a lost with more gears and stuff
lucid jackal
"maybe he cooked" - rank 4
paper iron
but rn it s a cook that does stuff
lucid jackal
noob 
young mural
buddy went all the way to oribos for nothing
hazy breach
"maybe he cooked" - rank 4
Bro akaari is stealing my damage
Because i forgot to log myself
young mural
hadnt seen this
paper iron
hazy breach
So since the logger is 100+ yards away the log doesnt know that akaaris soul is my damage
hot dagger
Do they ever fix your logs if you have the akari soul bug? Just killed cauldron and had akaris soul show up as a player that did 100k dps
molten citrus
hot dagger
like shouldnt that be in my damage in the logs?
wraith sphinx
It's akaaris damage now
molten citrus
He’s talking about it rn
lone halo
Is the Eye bugged or is the proc rate really that bad. I’m not even getting 20 stacks on a boss fight in heroic
final holly
When you say 60% more damage do you mean via nimble flurry?
pure jay
whats the command for log audit?
young mural
Is the Eye bugged or is the proc rate really that bad. I’m not even getting 20 s...
not bugged
young mural
whats the command for log audit?
type !log
pure jay
!log
young mural
or !logs
crystal bone
When you say 60% more damage do you mean via nimble flurry?
yes
molten citrus
When you say 60% more damage do you mean via nimble flurry?
yh
final holly
Do you flag the boss you're gunna swap to? That's a really cool tech in general I'm gunna do that on Sunday
young mural
doesnt matter, by the time clash ends the debuff part of flag is gone
pure jay
How do I use nimble flurry optimally on Rik Reverb mythic?
great question
just killed it and did horrible
hazy breach
Is the Eye bugged or is the proc rate really that bad. I’m not even getting 20 s...
It takes on average 4 minutes to stack it to 20
So if the fight is like that or shorter, kezan is not great
However if the fight is long, the trinket is very strong
hazy breach
Do you flag the boss you're gunna swap to? That's a really cool tech in general ...
You dont need to hit the target you have flag on
young mural
When weaponmaster procs, do you get only double damage or also double combo points?
hazy breach
Double combo points too
final holly
You dont need to hit the target you have flag on
I just re-read the tooltip after I asked and I'm not sure why I thought that you did
hazy breach
I just re-read the tooltip after I asked and I'm not sure why I thought that you...
Intuitively i think it should work that way, but ye it doesnt
young mural
Double combo points too
Thats very strong, I've been playing around with TFD in raids but feeling like going back to WM now
finite citrus
How do I use nimble flurry optimally on Rik Reverb mythic?
Anyone?
hazy breach
Very strong is an overstatement, but ye usually better than WM unless the fight is like 2 minutes
finite citrus
While hitting boss?
young mural
Btw flurry is a radius around my character and not my target right?
young mural
gotcha
dont you end up losing danse stacks with TFD on your 2nd sec tech?
since when 1st dance ends when your sec tech is basically up, generally i see myself sending sec tech 1st global in 2nd dance with TFD
lucid jackal
While hitting boss?
The boss will always die to damage
You do wipe to barrels
I'd just swap until like, you so overgear the fight that you can just payphone
finite citrus
I am asking how to optimally do this, do a wait until unseen on a barrel then swap to it so it spread dmg
I kbnow ow the fight works
hazy breach
what
Nimble is from you
Not from some mob
you dont need to proc unssen blade on them
remote rapids
any particular tips on gally? just tunnel and cleave adds?
empty cargo
!log
lucid jackal
any particular tips on gally? just tunnel and cleave adds?
Hold ur 2nd flag for when adds spawn
rest of the fight itll just line up with the mechanics convienently
empty cargo
hey guys. tonight was my first time doing logs. im trying to upload them, what link do i need to send?
to post in here
lucid jackal
@tepid trellis are u on oab yet
hazy breach
5% wipe to mr sprocketmocket here 
tepid trellis
<@83652604344664064> are u on oab yet
no we had 3x sub 3% wipes on locken
lucid jackal
when ppl get to this boss
they are going to overthink these sub cooldowns
so hard 
Its so auto pilot
but im already ready for "WHERES THE STEALTHI COOLDOWN SHEET"
tepid trellis
tribal blade
hey stealthi got a spreadsheet handy yet
lucid jackal
I upload a youtube video
tribal blade
?
lucid jackal
Its gucci
smoky egret
I always take a look a lorgs tbh, just to make sure. Helpful to look at line ups.
remote rapids
Hold ur 2nd flag for when adds spawn
Hold for the first set of adds?
lucid jackal
ya
it happens at like 1:50ish
and then afterwards flag just lines up perfectly with adds
sudden stirrup
!fu
lucid jackal
I always take a look a lorgs tbh, just to make sure. Helpful to look at line ups...
But theres no mythic one armed bandit logs
brisk raptor
wicked joltBOT
young mural
But theres no mythic one armed bandit logs
what guild do you play for?
lament hearth
!up
wicked joltBOT
dense coyote
hey question
can i primer 6 supercharged combo points before a fight essentially ?
with symbols of death ?
tepid trellis
boss combat
dense coyote
okay
hazy breach
Also on key start
remote rapids
should I be hard swapping to the small adds on gally or just cleave off boss?
lucid jackal
what guild do you play for?
gn
modest delta
pog m+ titles are out from last season
lucid jackal
should I be hard swapping to the small adds on gally or just cleave off boss?
off boss
remote rapids
sweet, thanks
modest delta
@tepid trellis whats our cd breakdown look like for m stix?
do you have a note like you did from richard reverberation?
empty cargo
Can I just copy & paste my logs in here or is there another way to do it?
tepid trellis
<@83652604344664064> whats our cd breakdown look like for m stix?
i wasent in for it
modest delta
i wasent in for it
are we just turbo ass for it?
tepid trellis
atro does nothing on the fight
twilit phoenix
Heres how u do ur cooldowns
lucid jackal
and then I think 2nd cds happen right as he flies around
so then u hold for when he lands
then u press ur cds again
twilit phoenix
lucid jackal
Insane technology
twilit phoenix
yo deadass?
modest delta
https://tenor.com/view/glorp-explosion-gif-7138394752046712707
LOL WHAT TIS THTAT GIFF
charred nimbus
On mythic one armed bandit do you play with improved shuriken storm over shadow focus
lucid jackal
you press shuriken storm so yes
modest delta
getting away from house of cards man
i mean from TT
is insane quality of life increase
simple garnet
Yeah I got some random hero trinket and got rid of that thing immediately 😂
Still instinctually jumping after I press flag though 😦 traumatized
tribal blade
On mythic one armed bandit do you play with improved shuriken storm over shadow ...
there's pretty much no need to ever swap off imp storm
lucid jackal
Only worth on sprocket
hazy breach
On non-mythic sprocket even
Because its slightly better to possibly apply fw from storm if the boss is facing you
warm marlin
<@83652604344664064> whats our cd breakdown look like for m stix?
from lorgs its on cd after sorting
worked fine for me
you might lose a dance or two holding at times but u wont get griefed from getting balled and u delete any bombshells already gripped into melee
green scarab
!weakauras
lol. Does anyone have one that helps with tracking free finishers without staring at your points?
lucid jackal
!wa
wicked joltBOT
lucid jackal
Mine has a shadow technique tracker that glows when it's ready
And soft glows when it's almost ready
green scarab
Thanks!
twilit phoenix
didn't know guy had his own pack
gleaming locust
meadery is cursed this week I swear
slate lantern
didn't know guy had his own pack
Guys pack is huge, you didn't know?
Can barely take it
dense swallow
whats the best wa for rotations out of the 6 you guys think
dense swallow
alright just still new to subtlety rogue so didnt know if one was maybe more simplistic/new friendly
weary kite
if one is more noob friendly its def always Luxthos but hey try multiple
dense swallow
alright ty
brazen meadow
would we only press storm on OAB with bombs out or would we still press it on just the 1 prio add
quaint lodge
Usually its pretty easy to tell shadowcraft is going off based on the points you get fro
Can somebody explain the interaction between coup and the stored combo points
west tide
ok sprocket transmitter is not that bad
stiff stirrup
Does Shadowheart (2% leech in stealth) also work in dance?
raven maple
Just curious, what's ya'll favorite UI weakaura for sub?
frozen patio
Do we still back stab once during shadow dance for macabre?
fringe lava
!wa
wicked joltBOT
honest saddle
I have now spent 3 hours on Stix. I think it's the worst encounter they have ever made. I might be overreacting, but I don't think so. It's up there with Sennarth.
Incredibly comp dependent is my biggest complaint. Can be done with any comp, but really biased towards having a lot of range.
twilit phoenix
Do we still back stab once during shadow dance for macabre?
it's a minor optimization
frozen patio
Meh
twilit phoenix
like .4%
frozen patio
Oh pff OK
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
frozen patio
Oh that'll help with button bloat thank you
lucid jackal
I have now spent 3 hours on Stix. I think it's the worst encounter they have eve...
its p stinky
clever delta
Idk I liked stix
honest saddle
Idk I liked stix
how many melee did you have
we have 8
it's miserable.
8 plus the tanks plus a monk healer in melee
so 11 in melee
no its 10. We have 7 melee dps
shrewd lantern
Is there an ideal way to hold for optimal dam on rik
honest saddle
yeah, just delay your opener about 12 seconds.
honest saddle
look at lorrgs, it gets pretty complicated with barrels
shrewd lantern
Yeah i mean barrel spawns arent guaranteed to be near boss
was more wondering if need to delay some post opener cd sets to get more damage in on boss+barrels
vale pine
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
cloud rover
wicked joltBOT
warm marlin
how many melee did you have
Mid fight, also 10 melee and only one boomkin
glass jasper
Incredibly comp dependent is my biggest complaint. Can be done with any comp, bu...
I feel this whole patch is really range biased
glass jasper
Just look at dungeons also, swirlyfiesta in meleerange on almost all packs and bosses
Some fights you have like 30% uptime as melee
lucid jackal
None of the trash or bosses feel that bad
glass jasper
Rest of the time is running away from slurries
lucid jackal
other than 2nd boss rookery tbh
glass jasper
Yea that's the fight i had in mind specifically
lucid jackal
Feels mostly just like the raid is suuuper wizard favored
I mean that fight is just the worst melee fight ever made 
glass jasper
Made it +1 just in time, would have been easy +2 if that boss was playable as melee
But rookery in general doesnt really like melees
Last boss is fine, other than that the whole place is mostly just melees having to dodge shit 70% of the time
Last boss would be annoying too if it wasn't the case that his hitbox is pretty much the whole room, so you can stand wherever you want and still smack him
glass jasper
Feels mostly just like the raid is suuuper wizard favored
Yup!
lucid jackal
esp the later half
glass jasper
Havn't done rocketstocker longstockings M yet, but that fight seems to be OK for melee atleast?
lucid jackal
ITs free for melee lol
U do literally nothing the entire fight
u just chase the boss lmao
lucid jackal
But oab, mugzee and gally are just free eats for wizards
oab isnt killable without enough shadow/aff
alpine wraith
i saw exile playing on mug zee and oh boi
glass jasper
Do WWs count as wizards this patch?
lucid jackal
nop
alpine wraith
ww is good but not omegaop just some fights favour burst and they have a lot and then they dont fall as much as rogue
so basically ww is a better rogue rn
and burst aoe too
of only our tier set did not get mangled rip
hollow spear
WW kinda does what we do but better
dry dune
Any tips for super quick delves thanks to stealth?
alpine wraith
sluice is kinda fast but not thx to stealth
you can speedrun tak rethan abyss depending on the version
dry dune
Thank you, will look at that one
hoary lotus
Do I want more mastery or vers in keys? This stupid ring snapshotting shit is so annoying. If I don't take stone out I have like 22 or 23k vers. Otherwise I have more mastery. Raw stats are pretty equal. 16k each ish
tribal blade
Do I want more mastery or vers in keys? This stupid ring snapshotting shit is so...
mastery will be more dam in keys
but i purposefully get to around 20ish% vers if i can because i like being tanky
glass jasper
but i purposefully get to around 20ish% vers if i can because i like being tanky
Same, staying alive = more dam
vale pine
has the same range as bp, so ye
oblique delta
Not sure if anyone is interested, but i made a "The first dance" weakaura, to have some more control as to when you choose to enter combat.
Wasn't anything like it on wago.
https://wago.io/BUNsI2wuw
clever delta
how many melee did you have
Like you
You burn it little bit here and there
But did not die on this fight during progress single time I think