subtlety

[errant tinsel]

Can confirm it's a wonderful time. Absolute Bliss. Best gameplay experience. No Notes. 11/10

[modest delta]

was a 13 cinder we pulled about half the room

peaked at 18m

yeah it feels mad rng though but its not bad

[gritty zenith]

im so confused about something what is my aoe rotation outside shadowdance and during shadowdance

[hazy breach]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[lucid jackal]

Dude

thaddius might be the hardest mechanic of all time

[plush roost]

Red + blue = purple

Gosh do i love purple

Anyway cmere mr hunter

[wicked lark]

Is it just me or did Sub get silently nerfed (in pve) - I’m doing less dmg in delves

[lucid jackal]

@hazy breach

u around

[undone mesa]

witch rogue specs is the strongest one in m+? in trying to play sub but sometimes i cant do dmg enough 😦

[hazy breach]

Yes sir

[lucid jackal]

Okay

In this situation

Would u sod sectec

Or

Wait for the coldblood to lineup with the sectec

I would think hold the sectec right

I would think build, rupture, then just wait to do a sectec dance with the cb

[modest delta]

shouldnt CB that

[hazy breach]

Idk feels kinda risky to send the dance there, not sure you'd 100% get enough cdr for the flag

[lucid jackal]

well u always CB here

0 reason not to

Its just if its a dance or not

[quick latch]

is it okay to use sectec without dance when holding it for big cds -30sec

[lucid jackal]

if u CB right as it comes up itll be ready for ur CDs

just the way the math works

[lucid jackal]

So u would just wait for CB sod sectec then?

[hazy breach]

Ye

[modest delta]

if you cb by the time your dance and cb comes back up you might not have for your second sectech when u blades

[hazy breach]

But the ideal play was probably to not send dance in your previous symbols

So you could dance here instead

[signal heath]

how do you cheese blazikon tornados in DFC?

[hazy breach]

If you do it immediately when its ready you will

[modest delta]

also prob depends if you're in m+ or raid here ig

[hazy breach]

45+45=90

[signal heath]

just seen a vod of casualaddict and it looks like his group didnt get them the second time... like some on meld or some thing and broke the mech

[modest delta]

from that picture?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[modest delta]

5 secs left on cb means about 30 secs till blades window, and thats assuming he uses it literally the moment it's up after building cp and dancing etc

[signal heath]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eSvEeJpbv8

[hazy breach]

Yes

[signal heath]

11:20 secs

[modest delta]

i guess, doesnt really seem worth the risk though no?

[chrome palm]

later virgins

[hazy breach]

I mean theres no risk

If you use it literally when its ready

Its always up

[modest delta]

send them all to one candle

[warm marlin]

feel like especially in keys u always send the dance + sod + cb sectec the second cb is up

since u might not be sending flag insta on cd anyway

[signal heath]

oh i thought you always get tornados, so should every one go to one candle every time i dont get it?

[hoary lotus]

how do I choose between first dance and weaponmaster

[modest delta]

idk maybe ur right

i dont do that

maybe i should

[lucid jackal]

tfd dungeons

wm raid

[modest delta]

yeah, or the dot is reduced

something like that

i did it earlier for my 13 and it worked

[hoary lotus]

yeah, which dungeons or all

[lucid jackal]

Every dungeon

WM doesn't flurry so

TFD getting value like, 3 times is a better talent by a lot

[modest delta]

tbh im like thinking of just WM in pugs

i never get restealths lmao

[hazy breach]

On 8 target cleave, do you know how long the fight needs to be for WM to sim higher than TFD

[lucid jackal]

Dungeons have RP

U dont need restealth

[modest delta]

or ig dungeon dependant

yeah thats true

[lucid jackal]

If you get 3 TFD procs in a dungeon, WM is just better

[lucid jackal]

its like 9 minutes or something nonsense isnt it

[hazy breach]

16

[bleak night]

lmao

[lucid jackal]

Yeah lmfao

Think about workshop for example

[tribal blade]

workshop and ToP are the 2 that come to mind

the most

[lucid jackal]

U get it on first pull, first boss, first trash after boss, all the trash after 2nd boss, trash after the stealth section, the boss, the trash after the boss, the trash after the trash that leads to the boss

[warm marlin]

tfd feels weird to me when my cb sectec is the first global of 2nd dance

[tribal blade]

ToP you legit get TFD for every pull almost

[hazy breach]

Theres genuinely no dungeon where i would say wm is better than tfd

Even if you always chained everything and theres no RP or downtime naturally, pretty much all dungeons have downtime after a boss

[tribal blade]

the only dungeon where it's harder to get TFD to proc is cinderbrew

but you get enough

[alpine wraith]

floodgate also has lots of tfd

[tribal blade]

@hazy breach do you think it's worth running sin for cinderbrew?

[alpine wraith]

i always end up almost at 4m dps

[tribal blade]

for more sustain aoe

[alpine wraith]

sin will get murdered

[hazy breach]

Idk havent played it much

[tribal blade]

cinderbrew also has 2 bosses which have adds

[alpine wraith]

like no cap

dmg might be quite decent yes

[tribal blade]

oh is it not good atm?

[alpine wraith]

i mean that you just die

[tribal blade]

oh right haha

yeah true

[alpine wraith]

as sin but that is also a rogue thing

last boss dots and ipa etc have constant dmg

[tribal blade]

it's at least quite easy to press feint as sin

[alpine wraith]

like the beer dude heal just pops cds

but yea gotta get on the feint game

[tribal blade]

it's so annoying using feint as sub

25% of your energy bar to feint

feels turbo dogshit

[lucid jackal]

u have infintie energy in cooldowns so it doesnt matter

and outside of cooldowns u dont do damage so it doesnt matter

[tribal blade]

yeah in cds it's fine, more so outside cds

just big feelsbad

[hazy breach]

Like casual uploaded a +16 darkflame cleft where he is not running TFD. I checked and without playind differently he wouldve gotten 12 uses of the first dance across their 28 min dungeon

Is it worth giving up effectively 6 extra dances for 15% more strike damage to bosses?

[alpine wraith]

sometimes it is what it is

you can tell them but you cant force them

[west tide]

i did it guys

[lucid jackal]

Shit like this also doesnt even matter yk

[west tide]

whats the best honor farm

[lucid jackal]

Like random 1-3% talents

[hazy breach]

Ye ofc

[lucid jackal]

even 10% talents man

If ppl dont wanna run em they just dont

For no good reason

[hazy breach]

Yep like the chinese guys playing tea

[modest delta]

i literally never said i didnt run tfd

[lilac stag]

Why you running tea bruh?

[lucid jackal]

we aint talkin about u

Just a general thing

Its just how wow has always been

[alpine wraith]

nah too late we will flame anyone without tgd

[warm marlin]

they're not amazing sin adds though right

[alpine wraith]

it is comes with the class

[warm marlin]

the bees die insta and the droplets can't really be spattered effectively

ig the energy is nice for a bit

[tribal blade]

huuuUUUUHHH

oh they actually are look at that

[lucid jackal]

Is there even an argument for the talent btw

or like

are they just running it for fun

[tribal blade]

i think there was some thing about CN players looking up to 1 guy who does things wrong

and then they all do it

or they do things that makes things simpler

[hazy breach]

The +100 energy feels nice

[tribal blade]

it does actually feel good to play with

[hazy breach]

Because you can cast like two extra storms outside cds

The energy regen is negligible since its only base regen and not shadow techniques or relentless strikes

[lilac stag]

like playing outlaw?

[tribal blade]

yeah you have way less instances of not being able to fill globals

[hazy breach]

Sure it makes your BPs do like 8% damage during dance with tea, but CB is like +70% to sectech and lethality is +2% crit to everything as well as ~10% more strike damage (which cleaves)

[tribal blade]

feels nice

how would you guys feel about they take away 50 energy from vigor and put it into rogues baseline

so we have 150 energy baseline

[errant tinsel]

it's free energy

[tribal blade]

i think sub's downtime just bothers me more than most people

[lucid jackal]

Well thats like, the spec

[errant tinsel]

maybe sub rogue not for you

[modest delta]

why didnt he run it?

[hazy breach]

[lilac pendant]

On AOE should i use the AOE trinket with shadowdancE?

[modest delta]

what is THE aoe trinket?

XD

[hazy breach]

None of the buffs we have rn buff trinket damage

[brisk onyx]

They have a strong tendency to worship idols. As long as what the "idol" says will be the same as the Bible, if you try to talk to them using theory or SIMC, you will only get a disdainful response: He is the MDI champion, and what he says is the truth.

[lilac pendant]

sorry sleep deprived

On AOE should i use Ravenous Honey Buzzer with shadowdance one?

[tribal blade]

you are a funny guy

i've been maining sub rogue since wod

[errant tinsel]

[tribal blade]

yeah that's what i heard

from experience that's the chinese way

[errant tinsel]

You could always try another spec, or another class, that has a more consistent damage profile

e.g destro lock

[tribal blade]

very stubborn in beliefs and tradition

[tribal blade]

you are a funny guy

[errant tinsel]

but if you're tied to sub, then you're tied to sub

[pulsar gate]

How long is our downtime?

[errant tinsel]

idk man

[tribal blade]

i like you, i kill you last

what's wrong with thinking something could be improved with your spec

[errant tinsel]

Nothing

[brisk onyx]

[bleak night]

[lilac stag]

That’s everyone playing wow not in a class discord.

[errant tinsel]

legit had my RL tell me that he doesn't use his class discord because he's been playing this game for ~20 years and he knows best

[tribal blade]

CRINGE

[errant tinsel]

[paper iron]

be gnome and get +5% energy for free

[errant tinsel]

Pros: 5% energy
Cons: drowning in every puddle

https://tenor.com/view/trade-offer-gif-21546586

[paper iron]

good trade

[lilac pendant]

On AOE should i use Ravenous Honey Buzzer with shadowdance one?

[lucid jackal]

Theres no reason to have shadow dance up with buzzer

[lilac pendant]

Shadow dance doesnt increase trinket damage?

[short radish]

no

[lilac pendant]

ª

[muted frigate]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[lilac pendant]

Mister Lock-N-Stalk sucks ass right? And also anyone knows if activating the aoe mode for aoe is actually better?

[granite river]

Sim it

[twilit phoenix]

another day, another dfc run with the neck dropping for someone who can't trade it

[prisma sparrow]

In AOE, what is better to use, eviscerate or black powder?

[twilit phoenix]

[twilit phoenix]

depends on the target count

7+ is black powder

but you still press coup if it's up

[twilit phoenix]

NF is only up to 7

[lucid jackal]

This has gotta be the best talent ever made

[twilit phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/now-this-is-epic-gif-14506125224309254566

[prisma sparrow]

nice, ty!

[random hare]

Blackpowder at 7 targets

[west tide]

lowkey guys

[random hare]

And above

[west tide]

solo shuffle is goated

[twilit phoenix]

yeah solo shuffle is fun

if you can get a queue to pop

[gritty zenith]

is there a way i can compare my dps to other sub rogues that ran the same key and have a similar i lvl

[tribal blade]

just killed cauldron on mythic

sub is actually so down bad on this boss

jesus

[lilac stag]

no. Every key comp is different and your dps often will depend on how good or bad your teammates are playing.

[tribal blade]

i'm barely behind our WW and i'm 20% parse lower

[lilac stag]

sub just down bad outside of heroic

at least it’s fun

[twilit phoenix]

yeah that shit is not feeling good as sub

[tribal blade]

yeah mostly just the cd timings

are HORRIBLE

[twilit phoenix]

are you holding cds for when they clash in the middle?

[gritty zenith]

so how can i know if i perfom well or not compare to other subs? 😦

[twilit phoenix]

or just sending on either side

[tribal blade]

nah i looked it up, nobody doesit

[gritty zenith]

cause im trying so hard to improve and i feel like iv hit a wall

[twilit phoenix]

yeah I was just sending on either side

[lilac stag]

the timings feel fucked

For a number of bosses

[twilit phoenix]

might be a decent outlaw fight ngl

decent uptime

unless you have bad bomb baits

[twilit phoenix]

what are you struggling with?

[gritty zenith]

aoe pulls

my ST is really good

[tribal blade]

i did hold a dance+symbols for each clash

so i capped dance charges before each charge

[random hare]

Have coup for aoe cuh

It’s ur biggest dps gain

[tribal blade]

100% an outlaw fight

[vital mountain]

Hi, I'm getting some conflicted info, some people are telling me to Evis early (before ruptures) to get S&D up, others are saying Evis comes after you start popping your main cds. What's the play?

[gritty zenith]

beyond 7 as well?

[random hare]

Doesn’t matter

Both are same dps

[twilit phoenix]

yes that's what I said earlier

[twilit phoenix]

you coup at any target count

[random hare]

Evisc early is 300 dps ahead only

[random hare]

Coup on all targets

[lilac stag]

Simple opener is the winner

[vital mountain]

Cheers

Yeah

[twilit phoenix]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[lilac stag]

I’m actually tempted to send vault as pirate.

[twilit phoenix]

i'd need to play HO

i have 0 haste gear

i legit have to haste flask to have enough haste for HO

[tribal blade]

oh no

our server's going down

gingi EMP activated

[lilac stag]

lol

[tribal blade]

we're on rika rika reverb and our whole raid got dc'd

[lilac stag]

Fuck. I need to run keys still.

Brain already in raidlog mode.

[tribal blade]

oh it was just mass lag

we're ok

[lilac stag]

[elfin yew]

does sub rupture everything in aoe?

[alpine wraith]

if you are out of cds sure

[elfin yew]

kk, thanks

[alpine wraith]

on pull rupture like 1 or 2 times while tank gathers the pull

then go into cds

[topaz cipher]

Send priory trinket with dance at 2m or hold till 3m to send with flag/blades?

[short radish]

hodl

[topaz cipher]

Figured as much, yea

[wild hornet]

Hacha i remember you said you sod 17s before pull

Does that still hold true

[alpine wraith]

yea around that 20s to be super safe but 17 s is fine

[quaint verge]

Is there a point leading up to Flag/Blade window where we should hold a charge of dance to ensure we hit 2 dances in burst window?

[errant tinsel]

rule of thumb is to make sure you hav <40secs left until your second SD charge is up when you start to send cooldowns

[alpine wraith]

you want around 1 charge and 20 secs left of the next one

[errant tinsel]

so yes, you should hold to make sure that happens

[rocky ocean]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[rocky ocean]

what's the weakaura that calculates the number of dances/symbols for the burst window

[tribal blade]

LE's

[quaint verge]

another quick question about burst window, i notice sometimes i proc 5 combo points, do i send the evis anyway in window or spend another shadowstrike.

[tribal blade]

just evis

shouldn't happen too often if you're running with a shammy

[placid storm]

good morning ppl. do we know which WA pack is used in this video by any chance? ^^

[tribal blade]

but if you mean burst window as in cds, that should not happen

because blades gives full CPs

[tribal blade]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[brittle helm]

In learning Sub, I’m happy with my opener but is there any tips or guidelines to be followed for how cds are spent outside of the main burst windows? I know flag/blades I want 2 shadow dances in each, but I have trouble deciding if I should be spending my next shadow dance right away, when it’s appropriate to use symbols and when not, etc. Specifically between the flag/sb windows. Is it just eyeballing and guessing if you can get away with using dance or symbols and then stopping when you think the necessary cds (2 dances/symbols) will then be able to lineup with the 1.5 min cooldowns?

[lucid jackal]

You stop using dance/sod at around 30 seconds before flag/blades are up

In between you just symbols every sectec when its 10 or less seconds on CD

dance if its available

should start with the wowhead guide

If nothing there makes sense just ask

[quaint verge]

Yeh i suppose it would only apply for dance/sod cd's outside of blades.

[tribal blade]

yes exactly

[brittle helm]

@lucid jackal okay, thank you! And sorry, what do you mean by sectec here? I have read the ivyveins and wowhead guides each 🙂 I understand how they’re worded as far as the main windows themselves, but yeah, it’s maybe more of just the “down time” in between I was having trouble understanding fully and figuring out how to maximize.

[errant tinsel]

Secret Technique = sectec

[quaint verge]

so do i still send the 5 points on evis during the dance and sod or spend the extra to overcap

[lucid jackal]

downtime sub does very little damage so

if u feel like ur damage sucks out of cooldowns, it does

[quaint verge]

I still think sub has the better playstyle of the 3! I enjoy it more

[brittle helm]

Haha okay just knowing what sectec means to fill in that gap there, your answers are exactly what I was looking for, ty again! Really appreciated.

[weary crag]

Guys at what point do you use black powder instead of evis in m+

[lucid jackal]

8 or more targets

[plush roost]

anyone know if house of cards is retroactive with sec tec? like sblades is

[glass jasper]

How much of an increase is BP on 8 targets? I feel like in prectice my dps doesn't really improve much by using BP. Most cases it feels better to still evisc prio targets. Just feelycrafting here tho

[plush roost]

If i press cards after sec tec do clones still benefit?

[lucid jackal]

Yer

[lucid jackal]

U need to make sure you also have fw active on the targets

[plush roost]

okay cool i cna brain off macro it to sblades then !

[lucid jackal]

But yeah I mean, the prio of evis is a factor you can take into consideration

[tribal blade]

BP should be on 7 or more targets unless something changed

[round latch]

Foreversubguy

[weary crag]

fw?

[round latch]

find weakness

[weary crag]

ah

i realized recrntly

that i basically never use bp

[round latch]

its relevant in highcounts

bigdam

[weary crag]

im brain melting

how was fw applied to everyone?

[round latch]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[round latch]

😉

[random comet]

rotten buff + shuriken storm

[random comet]

or just imp storm and pray yeah

[tribal blade]

nah no praying needed in cds 😉

you consume the 2nd rotten charge with storm

[short radish]

nah just cold blood into shuriken storm

[tribal blade]

and that applies FW to all targets guaranteed

[tribal blade]

(he's memeing doing do that)

[short radish]

oh yeah dont listen to me im being stupid

[tribal blade]

didn't you know no fun or jokes in here

[alpine wraith]

you can also go deathstalker for more crit on storm

[round latch]

too much outlaw in u fam

[tribal blade]

very srs bsns

[alpine wraith]

but you will hate your life

[short radish]

no fun allowed.

[alpine wraith]

always suffering

[short radish]

okay lets not go that far

[round latch]

most based take 🤘

[alpine wraith]

gotta let the people at least try that poisoned well once

so they feel grateful trickster exists

shock therapyu

[round latch]

someday d@gstalker gonna overtake trickster

i believe

[alpine wraith]

after they buff assa 2 or 3 times

they will also buff deathstalker

and builders again

[random hare]

Brother what the hell

[tribal blade]

bro either my char is bugged or i have insane rng

i haven't been sent down to duel on xav in llike 3-4 keys

no joke

[alpine wraith]

i was always sent down

like a dog

[tribal blade]

i tell every group "i ahve no dmg dueling, kill me always"

[alpine wraith]

i had a warlock that just sat down and gave his back

fucker didnt even hit me

[tribal blade]

LOL

[round latch]

my mage is always send down,i immediately press combust 😂 😂 😂

[alpine wraith]

i had to waste 1 dance

[round latch]

most fun season ive had since i cant remember

[tribal blade]

it's like doing a world mob

you either take forever to kill it with stab and evis

or you pop dance and kill it with 1 sectec

[round latch]

yup

[alpine wraith]

that is why we are also quite useful if we want

we can always kinda bank 1 dance for downwards

so we can finish in 4 secs and go back

[tribal blade]

true that's a dance you would be sending on the banner anyways if you don't get sent down

[worthy ginkgo]

do you backstab every dance? or just the opener or just in cds?

[vale pine]

every dance

[manic steppe]

Can I just put /cast backstab into my Dance macro to get the extra danse macabre stack? Downside to this?

#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Backstab

[errant tinsel]

Ignoring the tea

If you have full CPs and press this you waste the CPs from backstab premeditation

[manic steppe]

True but you're supposed to Dance with low cps right

[errant tinsel]

Sure but not always

This removes that ability

Also if you press it too soon after your last ability backstab won’t cast

[tribal blade]

trust me, you want to macro as little as possible with sub

unless it's a no brainer macro

[errant tinsel]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[tribal blade]

because if you have to unlearn a macro muscle memory

it's super rough

[vale pine]

you might start dance with full combo points, and would waste 7 cp like this

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[vale pine]

^ this is overall a slightly better macro because it gives you control

[manic steppe]

Yeah then I could just press that once, spend CPs if necessary, and then press again to get a BS in

more control, I like it

One other macro question around Dance and SOD; is it only recommended to not macro bc you want to press SOD by iteself as well? So if I have a separate keybind for SOD, but also macro it with Dance, what's the downside? Is the downside that you would be clipping 1-2 secs off of SOD bc of the duration vs Dance, or something else?

[tribal blade]

there are many downsides to macroing dance and symbols

if you macro dance+symbols your flag+blades window will always be scuffed

sectec generally won't have enough cdr to be off cd by the time your 1st dance is over in cds

you want to be sending dances back to back to fit in blades, and if you try to do that with them macro'd chances are you won't supercharge sectec

the option to get around that would be to delay your 2nd dance in cds until sectec has 10 secs or less on cd, but then that means you'd have to use 1-2 naked finishers between the 2 dances which also has a chance to drop your tier stacks unless you press rupture (which is also really bad)

[wicked jolt]

Thistle tea use:
It is recommended to macro Thistle Tea with Shadow Dance like this:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```

[manic steppe]

ty, that makes sense, its due to lining up the supercharge

[obtuse phoenix]

i have everything on it's own keybind, but i also have a single keybind i use to kick off the big go. it sends pot -> dance -> backstab -> blades -> symbols in one button, so i dont have to press 5 things in one global

after that no macros

[tribal blade]

i've been warned so many times by people in here to not macro stuff and i ignored them

and then ended up having to unlearn stuff which was massive pain

so now i'm on board the no macro train

[manic steppe]

Yeah it is a pain.

Next one I need to learn is having two separate keybinds for sectech with and without CB

[tribal blade]

i think i've had to unlearn macro stuff almost every tier since SL haha

[tribal blade]

i learnt that one recently too

it's not too bad

[vale pine]

i kind of disslike it

i think many spells could be easier

e.g. backstab could just change to shadowstrike during dance

[tribal blade]

yeah sub has a bit too much going on in cds i think

[vale pine]

or my old idea that shb is always up during dance

cold blood could make each of your secrets crit or sth

[jaunty heath]

All of that would be so nice

[vale pine]

there is room to make the spec easier in terms of buttons at least

[manic steppe]

Yeah compared to sin, sub is way more technical I feel

[tribal blade]

yeah CB is such a useless button for sin and outlaw

[jaunty heath]

Theres no point really in seperates flag and shb

[tribal blade]

better to just move it to sub and make it a passive like that

[jaunty heath]

Once they made them the same CD

[tribal blade]

it is incredibly awkward they reduced blades to 16 secs

[jaunty heath]

If they wanna keep it 1.5min but passive can just add a line to flag that says „your next shadow dance activates shadow blades“

[vale pine]

because right now we have all of the optimizations back that people dislike:

• not being able to macro symbols/dance because of pandemic
• not being able to macro cold blood because of flawless form
• not being able to macro blades because of premeditation
• requiring a backstab bind for backstab in dance

[jaunty heath]

Something like that

[jaunty heath]

Isn’t there something with coupe too, at high tier stacks within x range of cds

Idr because I never bothered

[vale pine]

coup is just evis

you don't need an extra bind

you can optimize it by using BP/rupture/snd when close to cooldowns

so you would delay the proc for big cooldowns for a short time

tho i would say thats a micro optimization, its worth very little dps (0.2% or so)

[lucid jackal]

current sub is like, so perfect to me

Fuck all these dumb macros man ppl need to grow tf up

Im so srs

Its the thing that makes like nooooo sense to me reading this channel so often

[tribal blade]

r u rly srs bsns

in hr

[lucid jackal]

Is ppl needing like 40 macros

It makes no sense

[tribal blade]

i understand because i used to do that too

looking to macro as much as possible

[alpine wraith]

it is a different mindset

[tribal blade]

but it teaches really bad habits

[errant tinsel]

Forever guy coming in here like grandpa after a carton of beers

[tribal blade]

really, really bad habits

[lucid jackal]

its just such a bad foundation to build upon man

[vale pine]

people want to reduce their button count, so it makes sense

[bold hatch]

yo, I have a quick question, if Shadow Technique comes off cd while I have no Dance, do I just send it with Symbols alone or do I wait for Dance and pair them together for the ST?

[lucid jackal]

This spec doesnt have a lot of buttons

Like be fr

on st theres like what

Flag, Blades, Backstab, Shadowstrike, Rupture, Evis, Dance, Symbols, Secret Technique?????

And then waht

Storm and black powder

this is nothin man

9 core buttons

[warm marlin]

people just have issues pressing many buttons quickly especially multiple off gcd

[lucid jackal]

and then storm bp is so whatever

[warm marlin]

I don’t think it’s that crazy

[tribal blade]

yeah it's more the piano key pressing in cds

[lucid jackal]

The piano is so easy tho

Just press the keybinds

[tribal blade]

yeah it's not so bad once you get used to it for sure

[manic steppe]

cold blood too

[tribal blade]

i think it's just very daunting to people newer to the spec

[warm marlin]

Pressing dance symbols backstab blades pot cb sectec in around a second is decently difficult when you’re starting

[lucid jackal]

I mean I use macros

But I mean the like

"Sod dance, flag blades, backstab shadow dance????"

Like I have 3 macros and thats it

Sectec with and without cold blood

And then blades with pot/racial

Which will become pot/racial/trinket when I get house of cards

[vale pine]

Single Target:
builder: Backstab(1), Shadowstrike(2)
Finisher: Evis(3), Rupture(4), Black Poweder(5), Secret Technique(6)
Cooldowns: Symbols(7), Shadow Blades(8), Shadow Dance(9), Flagellation(10), Vanish(11), cold blood(12)

[alpine wraith]

enough for a big mmo mouse

1 handed rogue players rejoice

[lucid jackal]

I have a basic 2 button mouse

[warm marlin]

I think ur also a bit biased guy being an outlaw player

[lucid jackal]

and thats all I've ever used

[alpine wraith]

i dont really use my mouse buttons for games

most of them are for work

efficiency

[tribal blade]

how're you gonna do that rotation without shuriken toss

[alpine wraith]

you also need shadowstep so you can hide below the floor sometimes

and get chain dcd for 20 mins

[errant tinsel]

Don’t forget cloak and feint

[lucid jackal]

I mean outside of the opener this spec is literally 3 apm

[errant tinsel]

And evasion I guess

[lucid jackal]

So its like

its chill but u literally arent playing the game for most of this spec

[errant tinsel]

Crimson vial

[warm marlin]

Ya but compared to like devo or destro lock or something

[errant tinsel]

Unless utility spells don’t count?

[warm marlin]

Bm hunter

[lucid jackal]

I mean if you mean all rogue defensives, rogue has soooo much shit

Kidney, cloak, feint, tricks, step, sprint, vial, evasion, cheap

[vale pine]

Outlaw:

[lucid jackal]

Probs more I'm forgetting

[vale pine]

Subtlety

[alpine wraith]

that 1 sec of waiting for outlaw

[vale pine]

assassiantion

[alpine wraith]

must be like hell for them

imagine what could be done in that 1 sec

[warm marlin]

[lucid jackal]

This doesnt tell the full story yk

[alpine wraith]

i like how pooling is 0.1

[lucid jackal]

Cuz like the spec goes from outlaw apm, to like 5 apm

[vale pine]

i mean it kind of does

it shows the rotaitonal keys

[alpine wraith]

yea you forgot the rik decided to do his interphase so you lose adr

[vale pine]

but then like

[alpine wraith]

then become javier

[vale pine]

ambush is the same key as mutilate

so assassiantion is the spec pressing their main builder the most

[warm marlin]

I think by casts outlaw is close

Just shorter gcd

[vale pine]

the reason people want to macro stuff is

because the button count can go quite high if you add cooldowns, racials, trinkets, pots, utility spells etc

e.g. i already macro stuff and am around 30 key binds

so what is complained about is a new player being like

"this is too much, what can i macro"

which for me does seem like a reasonable question

[alpine wraith]

yea that is when you say macro this

idk which ones i would use the cb + sec tech is 2 buttons anyway but i still use the old one anyway

dance+stab never resonated with me

as i already have stab outside the dance bar so

[smoky goblet]

lol the 1.7s of black powder

[vale pine]

Single Target(outlaw):
builder: SS(1), PS(2)
Finisher: Dispatch(3), BTW(4)
Cooldowns: GS(5), AR(6), Vanish(7), RtB(8), KiR(9)

did i forget something?

[alpine wraith]

rest in piss sepsis and er

[vale pine]

so comparable

[warm marlin]

Killing spree

[alpine wraith]

ahahaha

[vale pine]

outlaw has 9 rotational spells, vs. 12 on subtelty

[alpine wraith]

someone somewhere is playing outlaw trickster

and there is nothing you can do to stop them

[warm marlin]

many someones nowadays unfortunately

[vale pine]

trickster seems good in dungeons

also

looking at the wcl statistic, maybe it is the time for

[alpine wraith]

the weak people began playing sub unluck

big props to outlaw for culling the weak

[vale pine]

Single Target(assassination):
builder: Garrote(1), Mut(2), FoK(3)
Finisher: Rupture(3), Env(4)
Cooldowns: Shiv(5), DM(6), KB(7), Vanish(8), Tea(9)*

did i forget about a spell?

[hardy agate]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/43

Well, m+ is another story

[vale pine]

deathstalker with the fok ^^

[vale pine]

it shows equal play of assassintion/subtlety and outlaw seems underpresented

[hardy agate]

True, tbh i would love outlaw to shine, was my main for a long time, but f* that target cap

[vale pine]

sub is target capped too

just saying

[hardy agate]

Soft capped

[vale pine]

no, hard capped

[alpine wraith]

only witness is uncapped

everything else kinda just has a max

[vale pine]

nimble is similar capped

unless you mean BP, we switch to on 7+ targets

[hardy agate]

I mean sectec

Or am i reading the tooltip wrong?

[vale pine]

the only soft capped BF variation is this

i mean similar

you could argue outlaw is uncapped

because of blade rush

it is just that BR is tuned lower and more damage of outlaw is in general in BF

e.g. if you compare 2 dungeon slice simulations

outlaw has this as their top damage

[hardy agate]

But is secret technique really hardcapped? The tooltip reads like softcapped to me

[vale pine]

vs. subtlety

[vale pine]

is br hard capped?

tooltip does not state hardcapped

reads like softcapped or uncapped to me

[warm marlin]

blade rush isnt a real spell

[hardy agate]

No but like in your screenshot slaps br like a wet tissue while sectech is our nr. 2/nr.1 aoe spell

[warm marlin]

sub can press BP to somewhat mitigate its cap as trickster

[vale pine]

my point

the main diffrence is BP not secret

sub can switch off BF

and use BP

but does trade off single target for it

it is why sin was so dominant last season, it did better aoe and did not have this trade off

and thats the main thing in any discussion around target caps

a target cap only matters if you:

• pull big enough for the AoE difference to matter
• tuning is not done correctly
• trade offs are similar

outlaw was the dominant spec in some seasons in m+ with the target cap besides having big pulls

[alpine wraith]

assa also had 2 things going too singular focus and witness plus being able to proc DN with their spender that actually does aoe with spatter

[hardy agate]

In a high-end key or wr100 scenario you are right but i think its also a matter of personal preference. It just doesnt feel good if you pull big like mechagon first pull or nw first pull last season and hit like 10% of the mobs as outlaw

[slate hedge]

Hello guys - which method do you suggest as the most efficient to improve my rotation/cd usage etc in M+? Dummy for ST and AOE? More M+ and practise? something else?

[hardy agate]

I mean i remember in bfa when outlaw being uncapped they played triple outlaw in the MDIs due to the reason they didnt had a tradeoff from AoE to ST + being uncapped. Now with the cap you won't see any outlaws in any mdis anymore ever i guess

BtE stunning the mobs was probably also a part of the reason

[alpine wraith]

outlaw kinda was capped just wits got out of control

[vale pine]

mythic+ tuning was always bad

thats why we saw these polarizing combos

the only dominant rogue showing we had lately was assassination in s1

seasons before had rogue often not played

or as a gimick pick like sub in indoor dungeons because of speedshroud

[tribal blade]

casual at least has been doing high end push keys with sub

but we'll see if it continues to be a top tier spec in M+

he's been mixing between sub and sin

[slender echo]

!log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BnrpAVqh71z6DXak?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=2

[light finch]

is it smart to macro backstab on your shadowdance ?

[vale pine]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[hardy agate]

How people doing this? Do they have already two gear sets? How you play two specs so early in the season without doing compromises in stats/trinkets/crafted gear/embelishments

[tribal blade]

you only need to swap a few pieces realistically, like rings and neck

[fringe palm]

trinkets are the same, embelishments dont matter, gear is not as important in the end if you can swap rings or smth

[tribal blade]

to have decent enough stat allocation

the main thing you want as sin is a lot of crit

so you get the 2 rings from ToP which are crit mast

and you're set

it's also why you should ask if people need literally all pieces that drop from M+ at the start of the season

i've built up enough crit/mast pieces where i could swap to sin right now and have really good stats for it

[hardy agate]

Good call, but looks like i shouldnt have crafted neck as second craft then

[proper latch]

I need to stop using SD when Flag has around 25 seconds cd left, right?

[fickle mason]

what is this

[fringe palm]

preworkout made with coffee

[fickle mason]

have yall got some good shit from your delve maps

[proper latch]

No

[fickle mason]

IG the poiso trinket is better?

[vale pine]

your probably best 2nd trinket for now

[fickle mason]

is there a macro that always tricks the tank in m+

[vale pine]

nope, i got a haste neck

!tott

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[fickle mason]

sadge

[haughty mural]

gratz.

[halcyon schooner]

Does sub Rog require big pulls to do decent damage? I have always played outlaw but to a casual level, 12-13s and now that sub is apparently good I thought it would be a good moment to learn it.

However my tank does normal pulls, so I have been wondering on how sub performs in this kind of environment

[random comet]

most things need big pulls to do big dam tbh, sub not really any different

but it does very well in small target counts as well

*with cds

[dreamy oasis]

When do you want to use the second Shadow Dance during Blades? Right away as the first one runs out? Or when u have secret tech up again to use as the first spender?

[wise pilot]

after the first one

[dreamy oasis]

Do u mean after the first one?

[stoic lark]

There is a weakaura that uses a Special macro to do Just that. Just search Auto Tank misdirect weakaura and you should find it and the Makro is in the description

[wise pilot]

yep mb

[errant tinsel]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[golden kelp]

speaking of tricks, is this fixed btw? was bugged on ptr

[hallow sigil]

Doesn't look like it to me. Sometimes it just doesn't work, other times my tricks will still be up on someone when I'm no longer in a group with anyone

[golden kelp]

😦

[maiden trench]

hey, when I look at my logs I see that my shadow blades do waaaayy less dmg than it should be, do you know how to fix this? What am I doing wrong?

[glacial stag]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[proven plover]

I feel like delve maps shouldnt be hard capped at 1 per week

Why not make it into some blp for raiders or m+ players, so they have incentive to play delves aswell

Where you would get currency from a run or raid boss, which you can purchase maps with

[random comet]

means you're not doing enough damage while its up, probably getting your opener wrong

needs logs to see

[maiden trench]

Ok that’s what I thought.. would you look at it if I link it here?

[tribal blade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8jgekCT0v4

wtf this makes zekvir look like disneyland

[random comet]

im not the best log viewer but someone will look at it

[tribal blade]

this is literally what gallywix should have been

[maiden trench]

Ok ty anyway bro

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/A8RzTtJCh1KD7QFp?fight=16&type=damage-done&source=212 in case someone want to help a new sub player 😄

[rocky ocean]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[clever delta]

Damn we had 20 pulls on rik, and the only pull i die on that boss is kill one... how is this allowed

[spark plover]

have down it as sub btw. is pretty simple once you understand you have to bait properly the location of new adds

[keen dome]

Bandit in pugs is such a nightmare. 99% of wipes are someone picking up a coin and not dunking it. Aaaaaa, this design

[vale pine]

keep in mind that these figths will get significantly easier with more gear

[spark plover]

taking coin should be also press the extra button and not only run on it

[keen dome]

Yeah

[plush roost]

Ngl the entire first 30 seconds is just horrendous haha.

You open with strike rupture, which means slice n dice isnt running, you then build with backstabs instead of using vanish further delaying slice n dice, then you use flag-sblades at the same time, then you shadow dance at full cp and press shadow strike again. THEN you finally evis, and then secret technique. THEN in your second shadow dance you dont even use secret technique. Theres quite a bit to work on, i recommend hitting a dummy and following fuu's infographics on the wowhead guide for sure haha

[haughty mural]

i imagine firing the coins back through the raid all the time is pain

in pugs

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's annoying

but the big issue is the actual mechanic with the spin to win

People pick up one of the coins and don't dunk it.

So you just wipe, lol

[hollow spear]

I second that. Most reviews here are basically me opening them, checking for five seconds and then saying "look at our guides, study and practice the cooldown rotation and then come back"

[plush roost]

Pmuch takes one look at a shadow dance to see if they know the fundamentals of the spec

[viscid urchin]

Spreadsheet gaming ftw baby

[vale pine]

what i noticed is a decrease in willingness to "learn" a spec

a lot of people contacting me have little knowlage even what cooldowns they have

[remote shuttle]

Sad cuz is so fun to play and learn sub

[vale pine]

and just want a pattern of play they can afk to and not think

[remote shuttle]

Is the most fun part for me

Learn improve and rise up content u can play

[plush roost]

Fuu when do i press sepsis?

[hardy agate]

This pattern exists, its called beastmaster/ret pal

[vale pine]

well yes, most come from assassination/ret or similar

so i guess thats where the expectation comes from

i don't know how "pre defined" assassiantion is tho, or if people just love to do it on the spec

[viscid urchin]

That'll teach that guy to come here asking questions

[vale pine]

oh no, i am not referencing a recent discussion ^^

just a trend that came back

i remember a similar one in SL

[plush roost]

A lot of questions can be answered with:

1. Did you read the guide?
2. Are you sure?
3. Read the guide before you ask.
4. The answer is in the guide.

[vale pine]

haha true

[remote shuttle]

Guys, fast question for the ones streaming on twitch, how can u show all spell u cast in that timeline bar? Is that a wa or an addon?

[plush roost]

That being said I'm also that person since i dont read guides kekw

Lots of hidden gems in those guides

[plush roost]

Details streamer plugin, or various other cast trackers

[vale pine]

there is:

• timeline feature in details
• a addon called "trufigcd"
• weakauras doing the same
  so pick your poison

[viscid urchin]

Tbf that's most class discords. A place for old heads to chat, and to point newcomers to pdfs

[vale pine]

XD

[keen dome]

It's better to point people to resources they can learn from than simply give an answer they may not be able to use.

[viscid urchin]

At least from my experience going a lot of class hopping

[haughty mural]

[remote shuttle]

Ty fuu

[vale pine]

tbh we often have good discussions in here and theorycrafting information is in discord first always

[haughty mural]

what a random hot take this morning

[viscid urchin]

Is it though?

[keen dome]

Yes

Read the guides because they exist for a reason

Then ask specific questions after you understand the fundamentals.

That's how learning typically goes

[viscid urchin]

I guess so

[vale pine]

"i am not that old, i was a child when the game came out"
"the game came out 25 years ago"

[hallow sigil]

TBF if you ask questions without even looking at the guide at all it feels kinda disrespectful to the person making the guide

[keen dome]

It's also going to be hard to help, in a lot of cases, because the person won't have a fundamental understanding of the spec

[vale pine]

i think questions are important

[plush roost]

In other news, I got a 658 house of cards from time walking and before i would never sacrifice 5k dps. But now i feel so close to freedom from transmitter jail. I am conflicted

[vale pine]

if you learn, you will always have things not explained or covered

[hallow sigil]

Like I asked plenty of questions couple of days ago but only after reading both the wowhead and icyveins guide then wanting further information to clear some things up

[keen dome]

freedom from transmitter jail is a bigger gain

[vale pine]

or just don't understand certain connections

so i am all for questions

[haughty mural]

i would immediately - after lockenstock yesterday evening

[hallow sigil]

And I got answers from fuu and couple other helpful ppl and improved with the info provided

[haughty mural]

thats how it should go

[plush roost]

Ah nothing like transmitter lining up with intermission eh?

[keen dome]

The orb is on a merry adventure.. INTO PAIN

[haughty mural]

yeaa
also with all the stuff going on there - happened i just lost the orb

[solid lotus]

any mythic rik reverb tips

kekw

[plush roost]

The orb is ez, it activates quick

Its the platform you stand on for 3 seconds that gives me pain

[keen dome]

Haha yeah

[plush roost]

Flag at 14 seconds into the fight, lines up with barrels, then can cd pmuch on cd

[solid lotus]

ok ty

[plush roost]

Theres specific timings somewhere stealthi posted

[steel heart]

do you know where I can find that?

[vale pine]

barrel padding is fun

[plush roost]

You can probably search the media section on disco ngl

He screenshot posted it

Im at work so service kinda weak images wont load

Or just search stealthi's name, he doesn't post in here TOO much so a little digging will find it

[steel heart]

OK thanks

[ornate heron]

at what target count do you use one shuriken storm during dance?

[paper iron]

Hey it s not padding

It s optimising boss mecanic

Let the pad to ret players

[paper iron]

Check eleem logs work as well

[steel heart]

Thank you for this!

[haughty mural]

good thing details shows fight time

[paper iron]

if u raid u probably use MRT

there is an integrated combat timer

[plush roost]

Can literally just set reminders kekw

Its op unironically

Instead of yoloing it like i did

[haughty mural]

true yea

[plush roost]

Yolo it and my cds were halfway done and all the barrels were dead

My guild does too much damage madge

[haughty mural]

thats what happened to me this week aswell

[lilac stag]

Everyone figuring out how to pad

[paper iron]

yea

like

this is so shit

[haughty mural]

unluck if ranged decide to pad on melee barrels

[paper iron]

imma show u our kill

[plush roost]

Im gonna probably not run around this week, and just dance on the clump set and then go back on boss

Rip parsing hah

[lilac stag]

We’re just cosmetic dps. It’s fine.

[paper iron]

these sp

and dh

held their cd

for barrel

[plush roost]

Nah all dps is real dps

[paper iron]

i couldnt do more than 1 sectech

i told them to not care about melee barrels and get a fast kill

nah

[haughty mural]

most ethical SPs

[paper iron]

they kept for barrel

[lilac stag]

Rogue is just cosmetic.

[paper iron]

our ret was even told to go m+ build

so he lost

like 20% st damage

he did tank dmg to boss

to do this ammount on barrel

[haughty mural]

[fierce ivy]

How to do damage on Reverb -> get lucky barrel spawns and ethical ranged

[lilac stag]

Your padders didn’t get the memo.

[haughty mural]

he should be the most annoyed by these priests

[lilac stag]

Show boss dmg

[paper iron]

boss damage

[fierce ivy]

Tbf i think i just popped on cd on boss, no delaying, but got lucky with kill timings

[paper iron]

dont flame on me i had to do lot of stuff

[lilac stag]

That’s what I wanted to see. There’s Havoc

[paper iron]

fk my uptime

[haughty mural]

[paper iron]

devoker active uptime

this is one of the best devoker in the game btw

he rank 1 like half bosses raid every tier, yet he s chilling at 25 apm

i feel like devoker is kinda a scam gameplay sometimes

look at the sp at 5.30

😠

i dont even get to send my cb sectech

barrels died in 2 gcd

[haughty mural]

he learned from your first sets

[paper iron]

like i m under cd there, there were 3 barrels stacked (not close to boss but still), yet they deleted them

[lilac stag]

Don’t worry. Assa or Outlaw wont have to worry about these min maxes.

[paper iron]

We have 15s to destroy them

not 3s

i wonder how s assa on that

hey, not so bad actually

[lilac stag]

nope.

[paper iron]

we re middle of the pack rn, for sure we dont get either buff or nerf, what a perfect spot to be in right?

i told outlaws to stop pumping they ll again complain about a nerf while being the worst spec in the game rn

[haughty mural]

im happy for WWs tbh

[paper iron]

i also am, but they re probably getting rekt in the next patch

[haughty mural]

sadly

[void hound]

this statistic is essentially only the first three bosses

stix hasnt even been downed by a non sub rogue yet

[paper iron]

it s like 40 kills

there must be one

[void hound]

nope

[paper iron]

ONE

(in public logs, who knows about private)

[fierce ivy]

If I had an outlaw weapon...

[paper iron]

that s crazy to me

on hc stix

there are 28k ret

5k sub

[narrow night]

wanna guess which spec is easier?

[paper iron]

aug is the easiest

500

joke besides, it s pretty crazy to me how ret has just a giga playerbase

[void hound]

its a good spec

[paper iron]

every season even when it s not good

[void hound]

good gameplay and good class fantasy

[rotund depot]

is there anyone that can DM me that is willing to have a look at my log? my raid has 2 sub rogues in it and i am being outperformed, any feedback or criticism would be great

[paper iron]

[paper iron]

try to !logs with your log link, some people in here can take a look at it, it will open u a special chat room with only giga rogues

[haughty mural]

you can clearly see how healthy it is when aug gets shot

[paper iron]

paladin is down only in pvp, it wasnt always the case but never been THE giga overplayed class in pvp

[paper iron]

lemme tell u that s a way to wrongly read the chart

people are playing what they play in raid currently

[rotund depot]

!logs https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DjHVRPz4kBLq8YTy?fight=3&type=damage-done

[narrow night]

last season it was heavily played tbf

[paper iron]

with the way rerolling is eased, u can pretty much expect a closed meta again

sadly

[haughty mural]

i meant, in the past you played around aug at some point

[paper iron]

i was hopping not, but it surely will

yea kinda arround aug, but it was also overtune

like if restoshaman is broken rn u play arround it you know what i mean

but i see what u mean

[haughty mural]

ye i'm with you

[paper iron]

i let u guess when aug get released

it s very hard to notice

[molten citrus]

gotta do "!log" without the S

nvm

[paper iron]

it worked yea, i wasnt sure about the S either so i double checked if it opened a room

[molten citrus]

it made the thread

i just don't see a chat msg about it being made

idk

[paper iron]

that s maybe moroes being slow again or something 🤷‍♂️

[molten citrus]

naw i think its on discord's end

!log test

this bit

[rotund depot]

wait is it fine

[molten citrus]

yes

[rotund depot]

it made a thread

[wild hornet]

I see his logs

[molten citrus]

you're fine dw

[paper iron]

intresting, so the S works but doesnt open the link in the current chat

[solid lotus]

okay we kille mythic rik

[paper iron]

ANY DAGGER?

[solid lotus]

that cooldown timing was shit as

yes

dagger

[paper iron]

[fierce ivy]

hell ye

[young trench]

Poggy Woggy gz

[wild hornet]

Sometimes its nice being the only rogue

U get all daggers funneled to u

[solid lotus]

i did not do good

[fierce ivy]

send on cd wins again

[paper iron]

i also used to get all the bow / rifles for mogs

since rogue was able to unlock these mogs

[young trench]

the true endgame of wow 😉

[paper iron]

it was in amirdrassil i think, i had a bag full of mythic hunter weapons

CUZ VOLCOROSS WAS DROPPING 2 WEAPONS EVERY KILL AHAHAHA

[wild hornet]

Yepge

Outlaw stat stick

Kekw

[stone robin]

how important is rupture in dungeons? like on the big first pull in meadery, how many adds should be ruptured?

[paper iron]

in classic i had the best stat stick bow u could find

😎

[paper iron]

ideally, everything that live long enough

in reality, just spread as many ruptures as u can in between CDs

rupture is doing a shitload of damage per press

[stone robin]

so its important to get it on alot of stuff? the thing is, it feels so wrong to rupture everything first in a big pull when the CDS are ready, but yeah looks like a lot of dmg

[solid lotus]

not the best but still good

[fierce ivy]

W mog

[paper iron]

if things live long enough for rupture to be worth, it s a very good button to press, even if it feels bad

[stone robin]

i really underrated rupture

[paper iron]

also, keep in mind that rupture can t reset your tier set stack, we dont really play arround the tier but sometimes u can just try to stick on stack if u know u can pump next pack. That s just a feeling thing more than a rule

yea lot of people do underrate it

[stone robin]

so its very important too, to not drop it in Raid Single Target fights aswell i guess?

[paper iron]

yea

u would almost alway refresh rupture before CDs, cuz casting rupture during your CDs / dance is no bueno

[stone robin]

so if my big cds come up , can i refresh rupture even when its not in pandemic?

[paper iron]

this is far from perfect play, this is cauldron mythic 90parse, all that damage from only 15 ruptures is really to not be underrated

[paper iron]

if u have 30s of rupture left, obviously not, but if u have like 15s, i personnaly would refresh it so it doesnt drop. I know we have a little rule about it but i dont remember how

[stone robin]

aye thanks! :D

[plush roost]

The little rule is, if it will drop during cds refresh it before cds

Simple as

But if you're reupping rupture correctly you should never have to do that afaik.

[paper iron]

yea so something like >16s i guess, maybe my maths are wrong

[plush roost]

Usually it lines up nicely

[light imp]

Is this dpet including nimble?

[paper iron]

didnt understand

nimble is shit on cauldron

[stone robin]

i have another question, how many Dance+Symbols should i fit in between big cds? and sometimes its just a symbols + sectech right?

[paper iron]

this can be a tricky question

[light imp]

Oh shit. I thought we were talking m+ I read cinderbrew somewhere, my bad, coffee hasn't hit the brain yet

[paper iron]

need more coffee !

[void hound]

It is worth mentioning that Coup de Grace still takes priority over Secret Technique if the target is under the effect of Fazed.
is this still up to date? @vale pine

[paper iron]

#subtlety message

here and go downward, fuu's talking about how do we play with charges / cdr kinda

understanding how everything work together is the most important

[stone robin]

thanks! i will read through it!

[light imp]

Thoughts on thistle tea over cold blood? The common builds on archon.gg are running thistle under the 'high key' option

[hazy breach]

Not necessarily, you can cleave a lot during the clash . If you really want to you can not use cds on pull and have cds for every clash

[hazy breach]

No reason to ever spec tea

[sly shore]

Guys I got rank 1 ⁿᵒʳᵐᵃˡ bandit!

[paper iron]

i ll look into that actually

sounds bad at first glance but maybe not

[hazy breach]

Its not more common, theres like 2 chinese guys playing it in +15s

[haughty mural]

[sly shore]

I love normal it's a really good difficulty (to not press feint)

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, blasting

[vague laurel]

rogue soo dead in M+ 🥲

[keen dome]

Rogue is amazing in M+

[paper iron]

not a single log with delayed CD

guess u lose a cast if u do so

but it would line up pretty well actually

[vague laurel]

nah

[molten citrus]

[keen dome]

Absolutely is

[hazy breach]

Ye but every cast does 60% more

[vague laurel]

did you played 15's keys with mages, druids and dks?

[paper iron]

i ll sacrifice myself and do that next week

we will kill the dinau so fast

[vague laurel]

you would know that they do way more damage