subtlety

[mighty citrus]

okay this works surprisingly well ^^

thanks guys

[tepid trellis]

trialed and tested in mythic

gives you free rank 1s

trust

[mighty citrus]

after i get the basics, maybe 😛

(never)

[lilac stag]

One of these things is not like the others

[steel zinc]

This also highly depends when your guild pushes

if it pushes close to 2min your screwed

[lilac stag]

Look at 18 mate. That’s nothing to do with pushing.

[tepid trellis]

he is australian

its reversed down there

what can you do

[lilac stag]

send the dingos after em

[alpine wraith]

a

ok discord is being silly

[steel zinc]

The difference between R1 and 18 is the 2min

[warm marlin]

yes that must be it

you are just cooked if you push at 2mins

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/dingo-roxy-the-dingo-doggo-pretty-girl-speak-gif-22822734

ffs they fucked up flag and blades.

[steel zinc]

yes you are. You will say later during full farm you need mostly 90-100 sec push to do good dam

its w/e its first boss doesnt matter

[lilac stag]

What if you turn it upside down?

[tepid trellis]

HE COMES FROM A LAND DOWN UNDER

WHOOP WHOOP

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/menatwork-downunder-vegemite-sandwich-vegemite-gif-25594639

[tepid trellis]

shrimp on the barbie

ya feel me

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/that's-not-a-knife-that's-a-knife-crocodile-dundee-gif-17875218452824390581

[tepid trellis]

they fucked up

they shoulve wrote "knoife"

[sly shore]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[honest grail]

Is there a fix for tricks bug?

[hollow spear]

How do I tell the apl to start rupturing X seconds before flagellation comes back up?

Could swear I saw someone posting it here

[lilac stag]

Cast tricks and hit something in the first 30 seconds.

[mild geyser]

guys can i trust the raiderbots dslice sim if it tells me to use old 2p + new2p?

instead of old 4p

[tepid trellis]

at high enough ilvls it will be

[valid vault]

for the coldblood on second sectech do we just not send it outside of cooldowns? it feels like it doesn't line up with any shadowdance

[alpine wraith]

you can have a dance there but it is whatever

need to plan for it

[lilac stag]

You just use with flag

[valid vault]

so we could lose like 2-3 uses in a 4.30 fight?

[mild geyser]

feels like if need to have 2 shadow back to back during flag+shadwoblade, i need to hold a shadowdance leading up to the CD back on?

[lilac stag]

correct, but you can fuck up way more by not using it right on cd. Just not worth it.

[mild geyser]

i just havent quite worked out when to start holding it. anyone has done the maths?

[young roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[mild geyser]

stealthi - can you please help me? is there a maths somewhere when i can start holding shadowdance to be able to have 2 dance back to back for flag + shadowblade?

[elfin hound]

anyone know how and when to bait amplifiers on mythic rik? we got double amps a lot

[alpine wraith]

it is in all the guides kinda

but you begin holding when 20 secs are left on flag

[lilac stag]

Right from the method guide

[mild geyser]

cool. another question is, are we actually doing not using winning streak (by not doing any evis / bp) until CD are back thing in key?

[swift tinsel]

I hear they let racoons write them over there

wild stuff, truly

[mild geyser]

45 seconds of no evis/bp feels sad if CD back but no big mobs really to be pumped then lol

[lilac stag]

raccoon has sepsis in guide still.

[swift tinsel]

why limit it to guides

[lucid jackal]

Ignore tier

[proper latch]

What is this blue icon?

[swift tinsel]

A relic of a bygone era

[proper latch]

You use it for Flag?

[swift tinsel]

(I don't like boring grey flag icon)

[mild geyser]

ok so ignore the pinged messaged

[lucid jackal]

What pinged message

[swift tinsel]

Didn't fuu make a recolor of the recolor that looks way better

[proper latch]

Got my 4 piece and I regret making WA for tracking it

[mild geyser]

lol, i swear i didnt make up, but that pinged message from elieen about holding 45 seconds only doing rupture is gone from pinged

[alpine wraith]

old things

tier got nerfed by 70%

[lilac stag]

[mild geyser]

oh so thank god we can ignore this game play style

cuz that would be so sad

[tepid trellis]

it was changed 2 weeks before tier launch

[alpine wraith]

but basically as many things if you have to ask when to hold

better never hold

[mild geyser]

i was about to find that pinged message, and i was able to read it even yesterday, but i can see now it's removed from ping

[proper latch]

Like not even 10 seconds before burst window?

[alpine wraith]

guess to not confuse people

i mean i would not use finishers that could reset it but over 100000 sims in average it wont reset enough to be important

[paper iron]

i was so hyped about spamming ruptures

i m sad

[tepid trellis]

on avg it wont matter

[gritty zenith]

is sub better than assasination is better for m+?

[alpine wraith]

sub is tankier at least

assa may do more overall

we have cooler cds thoo

[paper iron]

if u want overall

either ret or assa

[proper latch]

Play what you like

Do not compare ret to assa

Ret is pad damage

[alpine wraith]

why is ret pad dmg

[mild geyser]

I thought this season the top dmg would be sub rogue

but i will wait and see

[alpine wraith]

nah sub rogue wont top anything apart from burst maybe

[proper latch]

Because no prio

[alpine wraith]

if some specs didnt exist

sadly with tier set it was seeming kinda up there

[mild geyser]

sub if can do similar dmg to sin overall, i'd rather play sub, cuz it has more ST in m+ build

[gritty zenith]

i feel like the dps from sub is underwhelming

[alpine wraith]

sub is fine

[swift tinsel]

I'm having a blast while blasting

[tranquil garden]

people don't want to hear this but that's really how it should be in a balanced game. doing all your damage in a tiny burst window is an advantage of its own, you shouldn't also have a top-tier throughput if you have a top-tier burst.

[swift tinsel]

had a lil baby 18mil cinderbrew first pull

[upbeat sorrel]

ideal tier is everything but gloves yes

[swift tinsel]

Yeaa

can go rookery gloves or ones from raid

or craft if you really want to

[upbeat sorrel]

cool cool

[swift tinsel]

do you delay cds on hc rik or just start doing that on mythic?

[proper latch]

You mean for adds?

[swift tinsel]

Ye

[proper latch]

I saw Stealhi and Zac slightly delaying second set of cds

[alpine wraith]

yea on M you begin cds at like 14 secs

[hazy breach]

Idk im not really a fan of it

[alpine wraith]

on hc idk if you mind that much

havent gotten to the boss

so cant say on hc i just send it

[proper latch]

Like the second SecTec was for adds spawn

Maybe I misunderstood

[tepid trellis]

yeh delay em

[sacred magnet]

is house of cards 658 better than 639 transmitter?

[swift tinsel]

its barely better than a 626

[tepid trellis]

depending on your stats it might be neutral or a slight loss

[sacred magnet]

god i didnt get the heroic one and i just wanna get rid of transmitter :c

[swift tinsel]

for me HoC was 0.4% better so I'd imagine its a loss

[proper latch]

I don't have transmitter so I use pvp trinket

[cobalt vector]

I got myth signet, do I just hold it for 1m every time?

[hazy breach]

Yes, i would probably suggest trying to get the pvp trinket (or house of cards/transmitter ofc)

[proven plover]

Is there any world where one would refresh rupture outside of Pandemic window before sending Flag window

[hazy breach]

As 2 minutes is kinda oof

[tepid trellis]

if rupture wont last the entire burst

[proven plover]

Perfect ty

There are a lot of Times where rupture has like 12 sec left when 2nd flag comes off cd

And i already am holding coup

[subtle zodiac]

I have a mythic transmitter and still opted to use a pvp trink instead

Was like 1% loss but I feel like my openers are much more consistent and I'm not wanting to scream

[sacred magnet]

hahaha fair point yeah, for me right now is 0.6% loss, i might take it and get rid of transmitter
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nKRBdkcRCPsBZxG1cQRjAM

[valid vault]

might be hard to tell but if i only use coldblood on second sechtech throughout a whole dungeon would that be better than just macroing it?

[errant tinsel]

yes - one of the benefits of a separate CB/SecTec keybind is that it means we always use it during major CDs

which means a guaranteed crit on SecTec when you have another metric shitton of mastery

just full sending with a CB/Sectec macro every time means you'll guarantee a crit on a "normal" sectec (i.e. a sectec you cast between major CDs), which is a DPS loss as CB won't always be back up for shadowblades / etc.

oh wait

yes it would be better

sorry I answered the opposite of your question, have edited above

[valid vault]

so only sending in flag/blades would be a dps increase over a whole dungeon aswell, seems crazy but will keep at it

[errant tinsel]

yes

your major CDs account for a LOT of your damage

just try and get the tank to pull big when they're up

[valid vault]

and i guess as you get more comfortable you can try and squeeze a few extra CBs in outside of cds when you will have extended downtime

[errant tinsel]

yeah you could

but

[grizzled wharf]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[errant tinsel]

you'd be holding CDs for min 30 secs

if you wanted to align with the CB cooldowns of 1min

which is a bad idea

[lilac pendant]

When to use shuriken or backstab/shadowstrike on aoe?

[valid vault]

cd is 45 seconds, so you should get 2 every flag no?

1 during and 1 inbetween potentially

[errant tinsel]

wait am i stupid, i've been working on the assumption it was 1min

[hazy breach]

Yes but you need to use it literally on cooldown

Otherwise you end up needing to delay flag

Which is not good

[alpine wraith]

correct

[valid vault]

are you using it on cd?

risk it all

[proud prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/gamba-gif-25945486

[errant tinsel]

fine to risk it, probably ok to risk in dungeons that have a little bit of downtime between packs

but know the trade off is potentially delaying way higher damage

[frigid copper]

What's the thoughts on Eye of Kezan post nerf? still worth it as a second trinket?

[fast garnet]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[cobalt vector]

Why in the example from my quick sim is it using signet after flag ends

Its doing it at 22s into the pull which is weird. Its not correct I think

[burnt kestrel]

how do you guys play during the downtime after your major cds end? and do you use black powder in big pulls?

[cobalt vector]

pulls with more than 8 targets u can use bp

[burnt kestrel]

during shadow dance i only use shadowstrike to build, no matter the pull size right? and outside of sd can i use shuriken stom to build or is backstab with nimble flurry better for dmg?

[novel plaza]

should I backstab after secret tech if i have premed up?

[native zodiac]

@tepid trellis

[alpine wraith]

my man geared to the teeth

[native zodiac]

cant wait for our mythic reclear

[tepid trellis]

imagine getting loot from raid

couldnt be me

[errant tinsel]

In shadowdance you use shadowstrike. If there are 8+ targets in range, you can cast shuriken storm once for the Danse macarbe stack, but then you go back to shadowstrike.

Outside of shadowdance, you use backstab on ST and shuriken storm on 2+ targets

[alpine wraith]

only loot i got was the junk maestro trinket

[native zodiac]

i also cheesed it thats the real itemlvl with transmitter

jump x3 gang

[tepid trellis]

same as me

benched on styx tho so im just vibing

[native zodiac]

think im in unless we change something from last week

wouldnt mind beeing benched

dogshit loot on the boss anyways

[acoustic lodge]

Styx is the worst designed boss of the tier

[serene canopy]

Is there a reason why I cannot socket a red gem on my algari competitors leather goggles

[alpine wraith]

it is not a gem socket

[viral phoenix]

yo btw does 4 piece change any rotation at all in the slightest be it in raid patchwork or m+ between packs

[alpine wraith]

it is for engineer items

only change for 4 piece is you are sadder when it drops

[viral phoenix]

haha

[alpine wraith]

you can play around it a bit on m+ yes

but on raid it is mostly whatever

[serene canopy]

Ok, so what's the name of it and the best of it for pvp?

[fierce ivy]

I am in on Stix

[oblique pebble]

Hey guys, New at rogue / sub rogue, im curious when you guys use Shiv?

[paper iron]

as sub, never

the only purpose is the disenrage effect

[oblique pebble]

Oh. Well that makes it simpler

[glacial dome]

How can they bench the goat

I'm sending a strongly worded letter to <colour>

[paper iron]

not the worst in the world

there are no rogue loots there + melee sucks + getting ball during cds is a thing + stealthi is ungeared + can chill on bench tbh it looks like a frustrating boss to progress

[glacial dome]

Yea jokes aside it makes sense lol

that's the only boss exile has sat right?

[paper iron]

i said during the rwf prog on this, idk how lower guilds will do this boss without the bench

[paper iron]

yea afaik

[lilac pendant]

When to use shuriken or backstab/shadowstrike on aoe? trickester

[paper iron]

this is just stupid at this point

and then u have one armed, which is just cheeses by having 3 affli

[glacial dome]

it's crazy how one boss can have triple boomy

then another boss just has none

[glacial dome]

I guess that's what happens when you are giga good at one thing

[paper iron]

apparently blizzard closed mugzee a bit

they must have fixed some stuff cuz they were cheesing this boss again x)

last time i checked they played only one side, cheesing the other side and cheesing the soaks idk how

[lilac pendant]

so i need backstab on bars with stealth?

[paper iron]

u do

but u can also

[lilac pendant]

omfg

[paper iron]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[paper iron]

use that

[lilac pendant]

I can replace shadowdance hotkey woth that?

[paper iron]

yea so, u still need to have bs on your non stealth bar, and u can have another bind with this macro, in both stance

which, as said, make u dance when you re not stealth / dance, and bs when you re in one of them

[lilac pendant]

and is there a macro or something so the camera wont spin when using shadowstep?

[paper iron]

i dont this there is a thig for that

u can maybe find a force camera stuff in wagoio or idk

but that s not something i m aware of. I know we have a weakaura on that purpose for killingspree, so that s possible but that s not a thing i ever heard being requested

big d energy

love to see that knowledge shared

[warm marlin]

not as good as him tho unlucko

[paper iron]

did your guild let u solo them or they still bangabang barrels ?

[pure jay]

i hate mythic sometimes

[warm marlin]

u assume there were strats being done besides kill stuff

[small juniper]

now show boss dmg

[warm marlin]

no

[tribal blade]

does anyone have a link to the loot table for delves

either i'm an idiot or can't find anything

[paper iron]

oh yea we need boss damage also

stealthi show both

[pure jay]

comparing to others im doing all the mechanics

[paper iron]

how could u do everything on vexxie

when u cant soak everytime

and cant throw bikes everytime

[pure jay]

i have ~8% more dmg on the bikes then 2 spot checks

so lots of downtime

[paper iron]

[pure jay]

im also probably bad

[paper iron]

meanwhile us on bikes

range job

[pure jay]

yee

[tribal blade]

my raid team assigned people to do bikes

and i wasn't one of them

as it should be

[hidden pecan]

is sub good in pvp rn?

[lilac pendant]

any tips on Cd usage on AOE'

[ornate heron]

how much of a damage increase is it to use backstab as first builder in SD?

[paper iron]

0.5% with tier set i think

less without

still an increase nonetheless

[cedar eagle]

wait share with the class

[hexed sluice]

" /cast Shadow Blades
/use Prized Gladiator's Badge of Ferocity "

would be how I do the macro yes?

[burnt kestrel]

when heading into a big pull saying for example 10-12 mobs in m+ ,are u spreading rupture on them before using your major cds?

[lilac pendant]

We dont use eviscerate on aoe?

or icy vein guide is SUS

[hazy breach]

We do

But not huge aoe

[quick latch]

below 7 evis , 7+ pouder

[lucid jackal]

[warm marlin]

he posted it publicly above

[hazy breach]

We love the big bonks

[warm marlin]

#subtlety message

[hazy breach]

Imagine if they didnt nerf our tier set on the ptr, our bonks wouldve been huge

[alpine wraith]

yea that was sad we werent even that good on overall dps

[lilac pendant]

Aside of Damage , does rapture gives us something?

[alpine wraith]

just got our niche back

rupture does not enable anthing no

[jaunty heath]

Every single time I get to that second secret tech

Im like

[alpine wraith]

this is not wod or mop

[hazy breach]

Nop

[jaunty heath]

Huh the guy is far ahead

Surely that one secret tech won’t bring me up there

You press that button

Top of the meters

[coarse bolt]

biggest bonk was tomb of sargaras DfA

[hazy breach]

Sectech does pretty similar

Its just split into multiple hits

[jaunty heath]

I can’t watch rwf currently as I’m on the go, is exile playing sub or sin for mugzee?

[grizzled wharf]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jaunty heath]

It seems like a really good sin fight to me

[hazy breach]

Trying both, currently on sub

[lucid jackal]

sectec is DFA if it wasn't the worst spell ever made

[coarse bolt]

fair

[hazy breach]

Like ye the animation sucks

But the gameplay is very similar

[warm marlin]

He was saying in chat you kinda need to play sub since assa can't easily swap to the gaol eles

[hazy breach]

Gameplay right now is kinda peak ngl

[warm marlin]

even if execute is sin

[hazy breach]

Just dont get sent in

Ive heard you can spatter of the boss onto the adds

[daring agate]

Having to blow all three symbols on trash pulls in m+ then hitting like a wet noodle feels absolutely awful

[warm marlin]

i know fmage can ignite spread to them

from watching firedup

[alpine wraith]

you put ignite on both then go outside and use the phoenix thingies to refresh it

[short radish]

Yeah don't do that

Sometimes you compete with tank for damage

And that's okay

[hazy breach]

Sometmes you oneshot a pack, sometimes you do healer damage

Thats just the way it goes

[jaunty heath]

Yep probably not intended but it works

@white briar tried in our raid today, obv heroic but I don’t see a reason why that would change

Boss is big so hitbox big

Man watching Firedup play mage is honestly such a treat

I don’t even like playing mage but every time I see him play I feel like playing mage (gladly I know that feeling is wrong and I don’t )

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[tribal blade]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cosmic viper]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[runic siren]

Im struggling to get that last shadowstrike in my dance windows on opener, am i reading the guides wrong?

[hazy breach]

You should be getting 8 spells casted during your shadow dance always

Otherwise you are not pressing the buttons enough

[runic siren]

Yeah im doing 7, cant ever get 8 the gcd seems like its so much more delayed nowadays

[daring agate]

I get that it's part of the way sub works but man it just doesn't feel good.

[hazy breach]

Idk i think its good

Or well, i think the payoff of being able to do a lot during your burst is worth not doing a whole lot outside of it

[runic siren]

Turning off all addons did the trick. now to cleanse.

[daring agate]

Trying to time a key and sitting there under the tank during trash feels like I'm not contributing lol

[hazy breach]

Well sure

But then youre soloing the next pack

[daring agate]

So would you say only use one symbols per trash pack? I'm having trouble knowing when to sit on them and when to blow them

[warm marlin]

between tfd and chaining 8 stacks of tier set entire dungeon sub feels pretty good in keys

[hazy breach]

You should always be able to symbols, sectech and dance twice during every flag+blades

[daring agate]

So save symbols for flag cooldown?

[hazy breach]

Absolutely obliterating bosses feels good too

[hazy breach]

Yesnt.

You want to use as many as possible inbetween, but still make sure you can use two during blades+flag

[warm marlin]

first boss motherlode/floodgate go hard

[hazy breach]

Ye those especially but even just standard bosses too

[daring agate]

And that's where I have issues. Guess I'll keep practicing i guess

[hazy breach]

Going into a boss with 8 stacks of tier, 4 coups stacks, pot ready, flag+blades ready and close to 2 dance stacks

You know that boss is getting sent to the shadowrealm

[twilit phoenix]

is it worth going elusive on mugzee

[daring agate]

Agreed, when I have everything up sub feels amazing lol

[twilit phoenix]

gally***

I mean

[alpine wraith]

yes

[twilit phoenix]

elusive?

[warm marlin]

I have yet to swap out of cheat in raid yet

[twilit phoenix]

was that a yes to my question

[warm marlin]

havent really felt like i need the dr from elusive

[final holly]

The only sad thing about sub burst is when you have literally everything up and the tank decided to pull like a baby

[daring agate]

Yesssss

[runic siren]

Thanks for this, for the 8th spell info, really made a big diff once i knew it was some addon that was messing up my latency

[hazy breach]

Good stuff

[vestal dove]

If you’re pushing 12 keys should you go with vers flask instead of alchemical chaos?

[hazy breach]

If you want to

They sim pretty similarly

So if you want the DR go ahead

[hidden pecan]

guys is sub good in pvp ? if so what situations does it excel in compared to the other specs?

[short radish]

#pvp

[hidden pecan]

this is a sub specific question

[twilit phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/kiss-star-wars-revenge-of-the-sith-anakin-gif-26782869

[hidden pecan]

so?

[lucid jackal]

Ppl in here just dont pvp

Better off asking in the channel of pvp players

[umbral sundial]

How does Sub's boss damge sit compared to Sin in the typical M+ build ? (comparing standard M+ sin vs M+ sub)

[hazy breach]

Not literally twice as good

But close

[umbral sundial]

OH wow, wait are you saying Sub's m+ build is almost twice as good at bosses than Sin's ?

Or which direction was your comment

[hazy breach]

Sub pretty much plays its full singletarget talents in keys

So yes

[umbral sundial]

Ohhh gotcha, thats cool

[hazy breach]

(theres practically no aoe talents to even choose)

[umbral sundial]

Actually I did realize when I was just taking a look at the wowhead builds it was very very similar to the raid st build.

Sorry I'm just touring here from Assassination. I want to try Sub!

Thanks for the info Eleem

[hazy breach]

Twice is a bit of an overstatement for sure, but def like 50% more

More if the fight is like 2 min like they often are right now

[random hare]

no first dance keys

[hazy breach]

First dance pretty close even on ST

But ye thats the "pretty much" part and not the literal exact same

[pure jay]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9jCi3AsPnQW94nkzhXXB2a

[edgy zenith]

yo anyone know a fix to the tricks bug?

invalid target shit?

[alpine wraith]

tell them to take the thing that blocks annoyances off

[plush roost]

Riktus Reverberation has been slain

Now i get a day off or maybe 2

As i am off of stix

[vestal dove]

I would run with this weakaura to apply your tricks with

https://wago.io/n9Sg1NLb5

[swift tinsel]

net a 95 on our first Rik kill with the holding tech, heck yeah

[plush roost]

I was holding but my guild actually started annihilating barrels after 12 or so pulls

[edgy zenith]

the what?

[tribal blade]

when exactly are you holding

[lilac stag]

dn

[swift tinsel]

you hold cd's until 14ish secs

[tribal blade]

ah ok for adds to spawn

[swift tinsel]

yessir

[tribal blade]

cool cool

[worthy pulsar]

whats the difference in damage betwen 2 tier v 3 tier whetstone?

[lilac stag]

damage

cost

[pure jay]

working at all for anyone? I'm not getting any buff from it now, feels like it broke more

[visual basalt]

Is there a bug with Coup? Some pulls it's not being consumed and not building stacks

[upbeat sorrel]

!logreview

[remote rapids]

can you cloak ice spike on mugzee?

[native zodiac]

uneq and eq it again might solve this unless its a new bug

[frank bobcat]

no

[waxen matrix]

is there a target counter weak aura?

[main ridge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

alt-f4 to fix that

i just did an 11 priory with the tank single pulling the whole dungeon after 1st boss

holy shit

yeah sub tanks in damage when the tank is not pulling well

[pure jay]

new bug it seems

[cedar eagle]

@tepid trellis so you are using flag/SB at 0:14 1:50 3:55 and 5:23 am i reading that right?

then just dancing between then

reading this hurts my head cuz i dont think of timers this way lmaoo

[warm marlin]

Yeah that’s what it means

[cedar eagle]

i have dance up with sectech for quite some time during these downtimes how long is it worth to sit on?

[warm marlin]

As long as ur not overcapping charges it’s fine

I moved the 355 blades slightly earlier to like 342 which let me get another dance sectec off on the add set at like 410 since we wiped to it

But that could’ve been a mistake

[cedar eagle]

kk were pulling it so ill keep these notes up and try to watch

[short radish]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[short radish]

Bottom one

[cedar willow]

any hot tips to do "some" damage in between cds during keys?

[solemn sonnet]

spreading ruptures is usually decent

[lucid jackal]

The spec does 0 damage outside of cooldowns

Just how it goes

[cedar willow]

and after do you shuriken storm -) evis? or shuriken blackpowder

[zenith hollow]

do you just always hold cb for the 2nd sectech in the burst window?

[lucid jackal]

yer

well u can use it on CD afterwards just to get an extra use but yeah

In cds its better to CB 2nd sectec

[solemn creek]

im finally out of the transmitter

[shell willow]

Grats

[solemn creek]

had to pay 100k for it

worth it

was stuck with this heroic transmitter, not even the 636one

[swift tinsel]

stix sucks fuck that boss

[crystal kraken]

we use Backstab once every time we Dance right?

[crystal spear]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[solemn creek]

yes during premed

[long marlin]

it is wierd that the method guide doesnt include using it

but the wowhead guide does

[copper siren]

anyone else use Afenar weak aura pack? i've been using it forever so idk if its still good but it hasen't been showing me when I have supercharged combo points

[tribal blade]

when can you get the key deplete protection

[lucid jackal]

If ur talking about afenarsa modified, I dont track it cuz U dont need to

I try to only track stuff that does anything

[long marlin]

also the rank 1 world parse on gallywix does not use backstab inside shadow dance at all

[lucid jackal]

and what about it

[wicked urchin]

rolled 100 on eye of kezan but why couldn't it have been house of cards

[copper siren]

not the modified, just the standard pack Afenar | Rogue | TWW weakaura

[lucid jackal]

I'd personally suggest mine over his fwiw

I use his as a framework but make it more useful to ppl playing rogue

[copper siren]

ill check it out 🙂

[bleak night]

its relatively new info that its worth doing again, and its a minor optimization even then

so yeah sometimes you'll see that

just like how some high logs are still sending cb on first sectec

[muted agate]

guess we're crafting neck this season

dog stats

[random hare]

guess we're crafting neck this season

dog stats

[twilit phoenix]

how many sockets did you get for your pvp neck

[young mural]

!UP

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[shy scarab]

Gotta grind like 50k honor for 2 sockets.. hahaha

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[twilit phoenix]

ya it's 10k

kinda rough ngl

[lucid jackal]

cant u just buy em

[twilit phoenix]

you need the pvp socket item

which is 5k honor per

[warped ferry]

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[lucid jackal]

Yeah Ik can't u buy those off the ah?

[twilit phoenix]

you can buy the other item you need

but you gotta farm out the 5k honor per socket

it's like some blood crystal + 5k honor

[lucid jackal]

I swear u could also buy them on ah

[twilit phoenix]

if you can that'd be based

i wasn't aware

[random hare]

In DF we could use normal sockets

Now u need PvP ones

[wicked urchin]

How we feeling about crafts next week?

I'm definitely thinking I'm gonna rip my second 675

[lucid jackal]

I'm on team neck

[wicked urchin]

I'm currently on team boots but only because my boots are turboshit

They're simming pretty similar

Guess I wait for vault tho

[twilit phoenix]

ya I finally got the pvp neck, so I think boots, bracers, or gloves are the move for me

[near stratus]

boots, bracers or neck prob

i'm leaning team boot, even though my bracers are the weakest slot. 🤞 bracers from raid

[dense geode]

Neck maybe one day get lucky and get BOE boots

[round latch]

in s1 u could buy bloodstones from AH

im not 100% sure if u can buy the entire socket though

im farming honor on my mage so i dont bother looking,its rly easy

[twilit phoenix]

yeah I think you can still buy the bloodstones

[round latch]

it was a nice way of making gold early as a pvper,10k gold per bloodstone

[twilit phoenix]

but gotta farm the honor it looks like

[round latch]

yup most likely

[graceful rock]

!log

[empty raptor]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-solo-leveling-sung-jin-woo-gif-13542164166832837846

Kill all mages

[shy scarab]

Could you buy the thing on AH?

[full pollen]

in heavy aoe fights 7++ targets. shadow dance is running. should i shadowstrike while dance is running or should i shuriken storm to generate combopoints ? right now i shadowstriked during dance and shuriken storm afterwards ?

[dusty sparrow]

Hey guys does anyone have a list of spells in m+ that I should use feint on? Right now I'm using it whenever I see incoming damage but I was told that I should only aim to use it for unavoidable damage

[shy scarab]

You can get the s2 dungeon weakaura pack, calls out aoe dmg etc etc

[uncut juniper]

Is it fine to use sword/axe/mace/fist for off hand?

I don’t have a second dagger

[tame terrace]

!prekey

[jaunty heath]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[jaunty heath]

Here’s your answer, in short - no, 2 Daggers

[uncut juniper]

I see

But imma use it till I get another dagger

[short radish]

Do not.

Buy a green dagger

[midnight folio]

how random is cyrce's circlet?

also asking this because signet is still bugged in sims (iirc), it doesnt matter if i change my highest stat to vers from mastery right bc they are somewhate equal?

[crystal kraken]

whats the command for the dance bs macro?

[jaunty heath]

!sd

It’s not this

Hmm

!dance

Rip

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[jaunty heath]

Got it

[crystal kraken]

ty

[analog lynx]

Is this necessary if you can simply do
/SD
/backstab
?

[stable viper]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[full pollen]

on 7+ targets, do i use shuriken storm during dance ?

[crystal kraken]

always SS in dance

[full pollen]

perfect. thank you

SS shadowstrike. just to be sure 😄

[crystal kraken]

sorry

[full pollen]

np :D:D

ty

[young mural]

AOE opener = ST opener?

[uncut juniper]

Very similar

[vale pine]

similae but not the same

[uncut juniper]

You use shuriken storm at fisrt global after shadow dance iirc

[vale pine]

but you can think of it like "you play single target during cooldowns up to like ~7 targets

[young mural]

Do you know the changes i should do? I've been doing the ST opener/cooldown rotation on 6 or less targets and feel like my damage is kind of low during burst windows. Need to optimize more

[young mural]

Yhea, should i shuriken storm 1st global during dance with the rotten to apply find weakness?

[uncut juniper]

Yea

[young mural]

idk if its worth it since sec tech aoe damage is shadow damage and that already ignores armor

[vale pine]

the main diffrences are here

[young mural]

idk

[vale pine]

you will adjust in your aoe opener to the situation

is the group gathered, you might send cooldowns asap

is it not gathered, you might want to spend a few ruptures

simialrely you might want to send cold blood on your first secret

if the group dies fast, like in a lower level key

[young mural]

yhea, i've started to adapt to that if damage is strong in group

[vale pine]

subtlety has the benefit of having so much damage in cooldowns

so you can adjust to your group, to pulls

also the backstab in dance, especially on 7+ targets, you can skip

it becomes fairly damage neutral, but it is in the apl as well as the guide

for consistency

[young mural]

Ah ok

[uncut juniper]

Do you bind backstab with dance?

[young mural]

I was still backstabbing 1st global

[vale pine]

(apl mostly because the condition is simpler, and simpler is usually better)

[vale pine]

i personally handle it this way

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[young mural]

yhea i adopted it because im just done with having too much buttons

[vale pine]

^ the macro does keep my button count the same

and i can just press dance a 2nd time

and poof backstab

[cloud rover]

This is only while Shadow Blades are up?

Or also without

[young mural]

I had to spare a button for the CB + Sec tech macro

[vale pine]

always

[cloud rover]

[vale pine]

i did simulations on all combinations

and with the highest gear

it is not diffrence

but someone in this chat did try out the same chanegs with lower gear levels

[uncut juniper]

I feel like I miss a global if I don’t bind backstab with dance

[vale pine]

and he had backstab always as the slightly better option

you can skip it too

its 0.3% dps without tier set

[young mural]

you shouldnt since dance is off global

[vale pine]

and gets to ~0.5% with the new 4 set

[cloud rover]

Well

0.5% is still more than heroic Hosue Of Cards

[uncut juniper]

I’m not fast enough to press dance,symbol, and backstab at the same time haha

[rustic geyser]

fuck that I sold transmitter

HoC is huge lol

[young mural]

fuu, when im sending a "naked" symbols + dance combo in a pack, should i stack danse macabre? like we did in DF

example= dance, symbols, backstab, evisc, shadowstrike, sec tech?

i dont get why i would want to do that, besides to get sec tech cdr rolling

but if i dance with 10s remaining on sec tech i feel like im good

[short aurora]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[young mural]

or maybe delaying the symbols so backstab doesnt consume a rotten stack

[young mural]

dude my fingers are gone after a couple hours of M+

[cloud rover]

Sir

[uncut juniper]

But it’s weird that I can outlaw

[cloud rover]

Have you ever played outlaw

Sub is chill

For your Hand/Wrist in comparison

[young mural]

oh i havent touched it

[rustic geyser]

OL is a different beast

[young mural]

im waiting for them to bring back combat rogue

[short aurora]

@cloud rover

[uncut juniper]

My brain melts when doing sub rotations, it’s about practice ig

[cloud rover]

[short aurora]

[cloud rover]

Hell yeah 40% melee attack dmg

[young mural]

@vale pine sorry for pinging you i couldnt hold myself back

[short aurora]

Bring back long arms

[young mural]

like what is this

[vale pine]

you never send naked symbols + dance

[young mural]

what

[vale pine]

secret cdr is higher than dance cdr

[young mural]

oh yhea thats what i meant

[vale pine]

basically dance cdr's at half the pace of dance

[young mural]

sec tech + symbols + dance

[vale pine]

so you will always have secret up for dance

[young mural]

w/o flag, trinket or blades

[vale pine]

means there is no "naked" symbols/dance without secret

[young mural]

my bad on wording lol

[rustic geyser]

oh shit, that scared me coz I didn't know what was being referred to as "naked symbols / dance"

[vale pine]

for danse macabre

it actually does not matter much

you can absolutely do

symbols-dance-evis-backstab-secret (for example if you are on high cp)

and the sim will do that often too

but the sim would also symbols and dance already before secret comes off cd

so the first finisher would cdr secret enough to use secret 2nd

[young mural]

yhea, so that evis brings sec tech back

[vale pine]

the treshold to do so is roughly 10 secounds of remaining cooldown

[young mural]

sometimes i get a CDR of 12s

[young mural]

thats exactly what im doing, with around 10s remaining on sec tech

idk why im doing bad damage, i need to find where my CD windows fit best i guess

[vale pine]

the exact amount would be:
2 sec (from gcd's)

• 6-7 sec cdr from the finisher
• 3 sec from supercharger

[young mural]

oh yhea

and even extra if your sending coup de grace

right?

[full pollen]

i dont understand the part with backstab. why would i backstab instead of shadowstrike while dance is running ? i think im missing some information 😅

[vale pine]

if you dance-backstab-evis-strike-secret

would be even +1 sec

[young mural]

because of strike gcd?

[vale pine]

because you send one more gcd

before using secret

[young mural]

yhea

[vale pine]

it is fairly simple

premeditation makes your next combo point builder generate full combo points

backstab is a combo point builder, and you want to send it early in dance because of how bad its damage is

the generated danse stack is worth the trade off

[full pollen]

oh shit. i totally missed that part. so after dance i should do a backstab to get combo points from premeditation, after that i shadowstrike?

[young mural]

no, after that you secret technique

the main point is for stacking more danse macabre so your attacks during dance deal more damage

premeditation makes it possible to send backstab because it will give you 7cp anyways, so its the only moment during dance that you can sustainably send it

otherwise if you backstab w/o premeditation, you will recieve little combo points and probably will have to shadowstrike after to build more cp, and that makes backstab not worth it during dance

(i fucking think)

[full pollen]

oh damn. so backstab is another 6% because it's a different attack used, afterwards i shadowstrike, so another 6% = max dmg . right ?

[young mural]

exactly

[full pollen]

wow.. thats min maxing 😅 and the dmg gain is only around 0.5% overall ? on bigpulls it cant be that low right ?

thank you guys for explaining. ill macro dance+backstab right when im at home

[young mural]

backstab (with premeditation gives max combo points) > secret technique > shadowstrike > eviscerate > > >

[proven plover]

Would it be benefitial at all to send symbols after dance + backstab before first sectec?

[tribal blade]

it's not gonna be a huge min max because strike does way more damage than backstab

[tribal blade]

would probably be more optimal, but it's not a huge deal

[proven plover]

Im looking for small deals

[young mural]

idk im attached to stacking danse macabre from DF

[vale pine]

yes, but as mentioned above the backstab optimization is very minor so feel free to skip it initially and start doing so once you get more familiar

[young mural]

so ill keep my backstabs inside my dances

[young mural]

agreed, its insanely min/maxy and you should nail down more important stuff before worrying about 0.5% dps gain

oh what the fucky @vale pine

[full pollen]

really that minor ? i feel like on big big pulls in m+ those 6% more dmg during dance can make a big difference in burst ? no ?

[young mural]

we dont run legendary??

[proven plover]

It got nerfed

[vale pine]

nope

[young mural]

yhea, no more sea mother or something like that

but damn, i wasnt aware we stopped wearing it for that

[vale pine]

huh?

[young mural]

sorry, that was my reaction to realizing that we dont run legendary citrine anymore

i got startled

[vale pine]

ahh

[vale pine]

you trade off a global of doing a inefficient builder

danse macabre is a bit of a tricky spell because you usually forget about trade offs

many people especially new to subtlety try to be very creative to get it up to as many stacks as possible

[next pulsar]

Guys, share your keybindings pls. Trying to figure out layout on sub after assa.

[vale pine]

because thats intuitively what you would asusme does the most damage

but in practice, we have so many inefficient spells and secondary dependencies

that going for "bro 7 stacks secret goess brr" is not a very smart move

[full pollen]

makes sense. you guys are good in explaining stuff

[young mural]

thats a thousand percent me

during DF

i was doing atrocities to get an extra stack

[analog lynx]

How u Guys sim for m+ ?

5 tar 5 min patch?

[vale pine]

thanks, i do theorycrafting for quite a while now, so i hope i am not too bad at it ^^

[young mural]

dungeon slice is good for now

[young mural]

fuu is good, im just trying to replicate what he says

[vale pine]

dungeon slice, and if you want to optimize for more specific parts of the key the specific thing

e.g. if you want to optimize for aoe, do a aoe sim

[analog lynx]

Ty

[vale pine]

if you do so, keep in mind:

• You won't have all raid buffs ---> so tick off the raid buffs you don't have
• You probably want to sim for more than 40 sec

[analog lynx]

Jop

[vale pine]

^ 2nd point is important, you migth want to sim for 2 minutes at least to remove impact of bloodlust and the initial burst

a lot of people loved to do 20 or 40 sec simulations with all raid buffs in the past

and to quickly highlight why this is bad

a sim has a 20% lengh variance

so a 40 sec sim is 32 sec - 48 secs

if you have bloodlust

it last as long as the sim

or lets say a on use trinket

it lasts 15 secounds

you have 1/3 of the sim that

short fight lenghs just have too high impact from things which would averge out better on longer figths, and as such are mostly missleading

[young mural]

thanks for the clarifications fuu

Is anyone aware if they have patched the free 658 ring upgrade yet?

The trick with siren isle ring

[tidal nacelle]

how much of a nerf did the circlet get? it still sims higher than using my 658 rings for me still

[vale pine]

the have not

[vale pine]

its still good up to like mythic

[jaunty heath]

Fuu btw, I swear we ran thunderlords crackling gem for a while no?
Did they nerf it?

Or I guess with more stats shit like that died

[vale pine]

the old gem setup should be somewhere in the tc channel, the new one i had pinned but i removed the balance pins recently

there is a text file in #tc-research too you can copy/paste for the ring to sim all combinations

they nerfed some of the best gems

some specs/classes just swap gems

for us its enough to make the ring slightly worse in general

lucky subtlety

[young mural]

fuu, how does flask of alchemical chaos interact with tempered potion? I've seen some people saying it makes the potion stronger

or i might just have misinterpreted the fuck out of some statement

[dawn trellis]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

you can sim the combination and see if there is a impact on output in the combination, but i would say there isn't

also you can just use vers flasks instead for more consistency

[young mural]

versatility flask for ST and mastery for dungeons?

i cant open raidbots again im going insane

[vale pine]

haha both should be fine

think top players typically use mastery because of better aoe

[young mural]

okie

ill go back to my mastery flask

[thin lion]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dry zodiac]

Tempered potion gives you stats for the thing you aren’t flasked for. So if you have mastery flask, potion gives haste & vers & crit, but not mastery

Alchemical chaos is not a tempered flask so you get all 4 stats from the potion

That’s why it “makes the potion stronger”

[young mural]

oh wow, that was unexpected

[tribal blade]

not worth it for sub because if you get the haste buff with alchemical chaos in cds it's very sad

[white briar]

Morning all, did someone ping me then delete it? I have a message notification but no message

[young mural]

have you simmed it prophet?

[tribal blade]

honestly no, but i prefer running either vers or mast flask

for less rng with damage

[keen dome]

@tribal blade I've got a quick M+ question for you. Detection mobs and distract. I was told by a tank last night that if we used Distract on the big horseman (I.e., the detection mob) at the start of ToP, it would 'turn it off' and we could shroud past him and into boss without him. Is.. that a thing? Would distact actually do something? 'Cos it didn't work for me, haha

[young mural]

detection?!?

[tribal blade]

yes it does work for a little bit

[keen dome]

Huh, damn

[young mural]

what

[keen dome]

Well, I've gotta practice it then.

[young mural]

oh you mean true sight mobs?

[tribal blade]

if you shroud then distract the mob away from everyone you can get past, but it'll only work if people are far away enough

it's very finnicky

[keen dome]

Yeah, I can imagine. I assume it operates on typical stealth detection where they have less sight 'behind'?

[tribal blade]

so if you mean the rager after the 1st pull, i don't think it'll work with that mob

because that mob is so close to everyone when you're shrouding

[keen dome]

Yeah, precisely that guy.

[tribal blade]

i'm not 100% sure though

i would need to test it

[tulip badger]

This even work for delves, you can distract, into shadowstep into sap the elites that have true sight

[keen dome]

He was adamant we could, and I'm curious if it's possible.

[tribal blade]

it might work yeah

[young mural]

does this mean for me my BIS trinket from dungeons is the mechanocore? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sGVrdy432ZqfELXVrQ73KT

[tribal blade]

like if you didn't have someone who could open the shortcut in mists at the start you could do that

[keen dome]

I know back in DF, in the megadungeon, you could do it to the drake that flew in after the second boss. But you had to time it just as it landed.

[tribal blade]

you would go right, shroud everyone and distract the tree

[keen dome]

Makes sense

[tribal blade]

and everyone could walk past and not aggro it

but that tree is a lot further away than the rager

[keen dome]

Yeah. The gap is tiny.

I'll go practice it solo and see if I can do it properly 'cos it seems like a neat tech

[tribal blade]

and yeah i think it's a small window of time for everyone to walk past

so the timing has to be precise

[keen dome]

Ye. Probably not going to happen in most pugs.

[tribal blade]

but also there's no need to do that, the optimal routing is you pull that rager into 1st boss 😉

and blow it up on 1st boss

[tulip badger]

I think i've seen some video where monk ring of peace the horse guy away and with distract/priest one they can go in with shroud, maybe i'm wrong and it triggers combat

[tribal blade]

i don't think you can ring that mob

[keen dome]

Agreed. But, the tank was adamant and I'd rather make sure than just believe I'm right haha

[tribal blade]

it does definitely work for sure

(in general)

[keen dome]

Rules to know!

[tribal blade]

never tried it on that mob though

[mighty citrus]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3nxZkdzTfJCMmq4j?fight=27&type=damage-done gus why is my akaaris soul again not in my dmg?

[dry zodiac]

We used to skip it in SL and then fight it at the end while waiting on mordretha rp. So you can definitely get by(or could then). But I wouldn’t trust a pug to do it.

[keen dome]

That's cool to know. So i guess you all pack up on the rogue on the left, they shroud, then distract the mob to look away and book it?

[tulip badger]

Just checked, you are right is the pull before. Misinformation avoided

[dry zodiac]

Saw someone say it has to do with the person logging being too far away. So if the logger is on Dino when you’re on gorilla.

[mighty citrus]

that would make sense

[tribal blade]

usually pretty big elite mobs like that are un-ringable 😉

i didn't know for sure but i had a hunch that was the case

[keen dome]

If in doubt: convince a monk.

[tulip badger]

You can just try it on SL version, no need to go for m+ one

[tribal blade]

oh also that mob requires a soothe, so if it was cc-able it wouldn't be a scary mob at all

[keen dome]

Yeah. That's where I'm gonna go practice today. Just hop into it on normal

[young mural]

i need a energy fucking drink

urgent

(trinket)

[cloud rover]

Good for you

That in Delves an energy Drink is obtainable

go get it champ

[zinc river]

overal which is better subt or Assa ?>

[keen dome]

They're both great!

[teal coral]

!warn @young mural filter evasion

[young mural]

sprry

[paper iron]

Purple in sub

[vale pine]

subtlety is purple, so checks out

[rocky ocean]

fuu why are you not purple

[simple inlet]

guys isnt the pvp trinket just as good as the hero transmitter?

[cloud rover]

Because he is orange

https://tenor.com/view/tkt-smart-gif-20642718

[hallow sigil]

I am growing a bit frustrated with my gameplay as sub seeming to fall off a cliff ever since I read more guides and gotten 4set so I've got some questions of any can provide some answers.

1. Should I play around new set in any way or just treat it as passive?
2. Should I backstab at the start of every dance window?
3. Should I ever send sectec without dance and symbols up? My CDs sometimes come to a point where I can symbols and sectec but dance has 25-30sec left on cd. Do you save or send symbols+sectec in that regard.
4. Is my dance not having 2 charges in a cd window me missplaying my CDs (the 2 uses 2 uses 1 use rotation) or does it just line up like that at some point?

I seem to be playing it all wrong after reading more on it. For instance I sim at almost 2mil ST, my DPS mug HC was barely over 1.6mil and in general I can't seem to log higher than in the 80s

[rain ingot]

guys

[rocky ocean]

I like how people who struggle with fundamentals get advice about small optimizations

[rain ingot]

i need a plater profile

what is the code ?

[placid elk]

i see blades comes before 1st sec tech.

a lot of logs have blades right after sec tech, is that an error on the players or am i reading the guide sequence wrong?

[rocky ocean]

1. doesnt matter
2. doesnt matter
3. you can, if that won't ruin the blades/flag window
4. 1 dance and 40sec left for second charge is enough for blades/flag window

[vale pine]

i explain it in the "optimization" section, but it does not matter if you use blades before or after secret as long as the cast is before the first clone hit which is exactly one second after the cast.

[placid elk]

nice, thanks fuu

[paper iron]

1 no, its passive.
2 yes u can, it s mostly important during cds but since u ll get the habit do it every dance if You meet the conditions
3 if u cant send another dance sod before CD, it can be optimal to send à dry sectech as long as its ready for your next CD set
4 You should always have 2 sod 2 dance,in your CD. So yea u overusing it in between probably

[cursive vapor]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[waxen wraith]

Hi, what do you mean with point 3? how can blades/flag window be ruined?

[rocky ocean]

every window needs 2 symbols

[waxen wraith]

oh!

[jaunty heath]

Does a day go by where there’s no purple tagging David?

[vale pine]

don't think thats a positive

[lilac stag]

I can just share my blocked users from the channel. They seem to keep needing special attention from the purples.

[hallow sigil]

Thanks a lot man. So I'm playing mostly correctly it's just not overusing CDs. I tend to send every time sectec is up unless 20-25sec before flag+sb

Guess I have to get used to the 2-2-1 rhythm for CDs how it's listed in eleems guide

[paper iron]

2 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 1

Is kinda the flow

That s in st

In aoe u get more CP so more cdr so can squeeze some more dances

[hallow sigil]

So 2 uses of dance+sod+sectec in CDs and only 1 in between all the time?

[paper iron]

On Phone rn so çant really image myself

Do u Know lorrgsio ?

[hallow sigil]

Not familiar

[paper iron]

Get on the website and sélect à boss without bizarre mecanics like cauldron

U ll get to see CD usage maybe that Will help

[hallow sigil]

Thanks

What I had in mind with 2-2-1 was this

[vale pine]

> Link to website <

[hallow sigil]

Yeh I'm guessing my in my opinion shitty DMG compared to my SIM also might have something to do with how mugzee HC is designed and me trying to play ethically with the soaks and such

[paper iron]

Both stealthi messages here

From 2j ago, sorry for my french

[paper iron]

Gotta do what u gotta do and adapt

[hallow sigil]

Yeah I also definitely overused dance between big CDs as well.

Gotta do better

[valid vault]

why are people using backstab on the first shadowdance in cds but not the second one where the coldblood sectech is?

[hallow sigil]

Danes macabre stack

Oh that I don't know. From what I gathered you should do it in every but it's small optimization

I try to backstab after every dance

Unless I'm at Max CP already

[hallow sigil]

Thanks for all the answers btw. Just gotta improve my cd usage and reacting more to shadow technique procs as I sometimes strike with full CP coz too much spamming

[spice saffron]

if i find myself in a situation where i have to kidney first 2 spenders after popping cds, does kidney eat a charge of supercharger?

[valid vault]

probably not recommended but i've put kidney and cheap on the same keybind on stealth bars for that

[paper iron]

Pretty sûre it doesnt since it didnt eat er

Have to test idk

[true citrus]

is 4 set that much of an upgrade for sun rogue?

sub*

[spice saffron]

it does not consume it, just tested

[jolly pasture]

Can someone teach me how to setup tts notes for cds?

[placid elk]

i just write with marker on my monitor

[jolly pasture]

Dont have a marker

Unfortunately

[placid elk]

when i dont have marker i just make a method raid tools note

[jolly pasture]

How

Is there a note maker tool?

Idk how to write the note

[vale pine]

we can quickly discuss it

[placid elk]

install method raid tools. open it with /mrt and on top right you got Note.
you write one and then you can move it on screen

[vale pine]

if the cooldown magaement is not obviouse

i am not a big fan of a set order but lets discuss

basically, you use 2 symbols every 90 secounds, so you have 2 symbols of death casts set in your 90 sec interval

[haughty mural]

@vale pine

[vale pine]

symbols of death has a cooldown of 25 sec, so you generate at least 3 charges of symbols of death

[jolly pasture]

I mean a note like healers have that plays the game for them. Like you get a tts "blades in 5"

[vale pine]

3 charges would be 2 during big cooldowns and 1 in between

25 sec cooldown on symbols means 3 charges are 75 sec of 90

this means you generate additional 15 sec of cdr every 90 sec

the reason people state 2-1-1-2-1-0 is this

over 2 "cycles"

you generate 30 sec of additional cdr

[steel zinc]

Yes

[placid elk]

ah ok. i dont use those so they must be weakauras with sound queues, maybe someone has them

[vale pine]

with 25 sec cooldown on symbols, means 5 extra sec of symbols

so technically, if the fight goes on very long

[jolly pasture]

Nowadays its not as big but back in dust days they were huge

[vale pine]

you might get to 2-1-1-2-1-1 very late in the fight

tho most fights end before that

when you use the "in between" symbols is also not that fixed

as long as you are not overcapping on symbols, you have a certain amount of dynamic

given that we align symbols with other cooldowns

you also see how aoe does not change the above noticable

just makes it easier to get dance to every symbols use

[lilac stag]

They use MRT plus a WeakAura. https://wago.io/n7l5uN3YM

[jolly pasture]

But how do you write the note for this wa to work?

[lilac stag]

read the guide for MRT

you setup a personal note with time stamps

[gritty gorge]

!shroud

is there a good wa for shroud?

[lilac stag]

check wago

[sly shore]

https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/vexie-and-the-geargrinders?difficulty=heroic

hover over the name and click the file icon

Then put your character name in

you can then edit it as you please

and use that formatting

[hallow sigil]

Is this based around having 2 or 3 charges of symbols? If the "rotation" is 2-1-1 why does eleems guide say 2 in CDs 2 in between 2 in CDs 1 in between so 2-2-2-1 now?

[obtuse shard]

do you guys thinkg Vexie is bad for sub because most groups will just delay for 2m timing

[sly shore]

no

[hallow sigil]

I'm sry if I'm dense and misreading your explanation too

With 3 charges of sod I never really find myself without a stack of sod, more so without a 2nd dance if I overuse it

[vale pine]

think thats a missunderstanding on yoru site

its 2 symbols during cooldowns

then 1 or 2 between

2 should happen every 2nd cycle

so you start out with

symbols-symbols(during flag/blades) and symbols 2x before the next flag/blades

after that the next cycle has

[hidden oar]

What do you thinkg about first dance vs weaponmaster, it feels like in most of the dungeons I dont benefit that much form first dance, and also tank chain pulling is kinda meh for it too

[vale pine]

symbols-symbols(during flag/blades) and only 1x in between

because you don't have enough cdr on symbols for another one

and after that you essentially have enough to return to the first one

[hallow sigil]

Oh yeah that is how I understood it maybe it's just my failure to put that into coherent words that makes it weird. But basically that is how we should generally aim to use our CDs yea?

[sly shore]

Like this

[tribal blade]

it's not really a huge deal because sub has more damage in cds than other specs

even 2 min specs

[hallow sigil]

So now I have some avenues to improve my play in cd usage less spamming and proc wasting and then finally getting rid of the CB+sectec macro

[hallow sigil]

Yeah that's what I had in mind

[vale pine]

i should probably do a fancy picture to explain it, cooldown management seems like a thing people struggle with

[keen dome]

I think it would help, yeah

[sly shore]

and then it goes completely out the window on rik reverb

[hallow sigil]

Granted this is the 2nd week I play sub in ever but yeah. I think cd management is the thing I struggle with the most. And cold blood without a macro

[sly shore]

smile

[hallow sigil]

At least when it comes to stuff unique to sub. Can definitely be a spammy baboon when it comes to any spec though