what was your vault or you holding it?
#subtlety
native zodiac
hazy breach
Its way worse
swift crest
fucking hell blizzard
hazy breach
And yes you would hold
tepid trellis
what was your vault or you holding it?
boots
errant tinsel
@swift crest it effectively becomes a 3min CD trinket because you have to hold for Shadowblades
hazy breach
If you want an alternative you would get the pvp trinket
swift crest
yeaa ill stay ass
swift crest
untiu i get cards
errant tinsel
Transmitter jail is real
tepid trellis
lil +10 workshop, died on my cds in a big pull
tall girder
Transmitter is lovely
swift crest
is that the real jontic 
tall girder
Nah fake one
tall girder
No
swift crest
fake jontic
swift crest
i sim like 60k less and dont have to use brain on assa
pastel tusk
Hello, does the exploit of crafting a onehand weapon twice to save crests still work ?
tall girder
Sub is also pretty brain off
swift crest
BAHAHAHAAHHAAAH
well id never played sub before so true for me at least
if u have built up a decade of sub muscle memory its prob easy
native zodiac
this is if i sent crests but im gonna hold until rik rekill
sturdy moat
bloodmallet says the on use pvp trink is 3rd overall, is it worth using transmitter and badge?
shy ermine
this tier set is so frustrating
sturdy moat
the tier gonna go until summer bro u dont need all the gear by week 2
lucid jackal
bloodmallet says the on use pvp trink is 3rd overall, is it worth using transmit...
no u use one of the on use trinkets
and then u use 1 random whatever u want trinket
tall girder
You guys got cheats or something simming for 2mil
daring agate
is it a good idea to make a SD, Symbols, Flag macro?
tall girder
All together ?
daring agate
yea
tall girder
No
daring agate
which would you separate?
daring agate
you would as the opener no?
tall girder
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
spiral needle
can tell you from going from sin to sub, best not rely on macros, get used to doing it without em
it'll just make it harder to get it down
daring agate
having to press 2 different keybinds at every burst window just doesnt seem efficient lol
crystal kraken
you dont press them at the same time
spiral needle
there are lots of times where you gotta be able to dance, SoD, or sec tech without using the others
daring agate
you want a symbols with every shadow dance, right? so how would a macro be a bad thing?
spiral needle
supercharger
you want to supercharge every sec tech, but you may not sec tech within 2 finishers of dancing
errant tinsel
you want a symbols with every shadow dance, right? so how would a macro be a bad...
for your major CDs, they come off cooldown at different times, making you occassionally waste a charge of SoD
vagrant fulcrum
is there a transmitter WA that shows you where the ball is?
errant tinsel
You also sometimes cast SoD and SecTec without shadowdance
daring agate
i see.
spiral needle
you won't be able to macro your way out of it unfortunately
rotund depot
ive been facing this issue sometimes where sectec is off cooldown but SD is still on CD.
do i just send a SoD / secret tech
just changed from sin to sub, so much more fun
daring agate
im loving the spec but the complexities hurt my brain at times, in a good way lol
errant tinsel
ive been facing this issue sometimes where sectec is off cooldown but SD is stil...
in ST situations with near 100% uptime you can do it exactly once in fight
spiral needle
worst is going from never using transmitter as sin, then trying to do that minigame on top of learning sub
errant tinsel
Rule should be to see if you'll still have 2 charges of SoD and 2 charges of SD up for major CDs
and work backwards from there
there's good nuance to be found in the wowhead guide rotation page - scroll to the bottom and click the ability you want more info on
!guide
rotund depot
in ST situations with near 100% uptime you can do it exactly once in fight
sorry, i dont understand this part, i do understand needing 2 charges of each for major cooldowns (at the moment im starting to pull around 30-35 seconds on CD for flagellation)
errant tinsel
there's a quirk with how the CD of SoD and shadowdance can de-sync at the beginning of the fight where you have full charges of both
Normally, between your major CDs, you can SD, SoD and SecTec twice before the major CDs come back up
tranquil garden
!up
wicked joltBOT
tall girder
No way
sonic hamlet
Insane gains
errant tinsel
@rotund depot but after sending on pull, you are in a kinda odd spot where you can send a third SoD and SecTec, but can't send a third SD and still have everything you need for next major CD. You can only do this once though - doing it again messes with your SoD/SD availability for any future major CDs
tepid trellis
!ban @sand sparrow
tall girder
How am i supposed to get my 100k now
eager patrol
can someone send the sim line of suspicious drink champion level
rotund depot
<@151924300595593217> but after sending on pull, you are in a kinda odd spot whe...
this is noted, im gona try this on the dummy later on to see if it lines up a bit better for me than holding my sec tec for a SD. thanks for your help.
scarlet pasture
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.!symbol
errant tinsel
this is noted, im gona try this on the dummy later on to see if it lines up a bi...
No worries! I should add that you don't have to send the SoD/SecTec without SD in the first CD window - it's effectively a free thing you can send at any point of a high uptime fight. Conventional wisdom would suggest doing it as early as possible though, as this situation comes up a little more frequently with lower uptime on a boss / mobs / etc. (i.e. you aren't getting the CD reduction on SD from combo point spend, while the CD for SoD keeps ticking along and is way shorter)
mystic remnant
!plater
vagrant fulcrum
wondering why don't we send blades on 3rd global with the backstab for danse macabre?
half quest
So it catches your second sectech without issue
vagrant fulcrum
ah
half quest
You can probably get very unlucky with combo points and not have it up by the time you get to it
Just guessing though
vagrant fulcrum
it says it's bc of premed but premed is used on 1st shs
chrome palm
Shadow dance gives you premeditation, which is wasted if you use shadow blades
half quest
Yeah there you go
vagrant fulcrum
this reminds me of old tfd
chrome palm
Functionally the same
obtuse dirge
do we do anything different with 4set?
half quest
Pray
runic current
for m+ do i want one authroity of depths or just 2 radiant of power weapon enchants?
sacred magnet
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.!sectech
fathom gazelle
is it normal that assa is simming higher than sub for me?
also a sub question , do u SoD always start of SD? or only if u sec next gcd?
half quest
Always sending them together is bad
You can SoD if dance and sectech will be up for the first or second spender
Doesn’t have to be the next gcd
obtuse dirge
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
vernal junco
great
vagrant fulcrum
Always sending them together is bad
I think so long as you have a seperate SoD bind it's not that bad
I don't think you really send dance without sod, even on opener your 2nd sod will pandemic the first
the main issue is that if it makes you lose supercharger before you can sectec
its bad
swift tinsel
You typically send them together outside of blades
hoary coyote
hey guys
swift tinsel
Stagger in the opener
hoary coyote
have a qucik question
what is the best way for farming conquest for that vers mastery neck?
random comet
Literally anything. Farm war crates while waiting in random bg queues
half quest
I don't think you really send dance without sod, even on opener your 2nd sod wil...
True but there are like 3-4 globals where you can hit sod without sd that you miss out on
vagrant fulcrum
True but there are like 3-4 globals where you can hit sod without sd that you mi...
which ones?
half quest
which ones?
Just build/spend where you don’t need both up
Sim and look at the action list
swift tinsel
Not always a good idea
half quest
Even on the opener you first symbols is covering your second dance sometimes
gritty knot
Great. Just lost my House of Cards to another sub rogue doing 800k DPS with Eviscerate on 1st dmg source and Secret Technique as 3rd after Shadowstrike on 2nd. I love this game
vagrant fulcrum
Even on the opener you first symbols is covering your second dance sometimes
looking into it now
random comet
Great. Just lost my House of Cards to another sub rogue doing 800k DPS with Evis...
Sounds like the dude needs the help
vagrant fulcrum
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7GywXFqCBHWPdvn4?fight=21&type=casts&source=17&view=timeline so using gram's log as an example
its the 2nd sectec
that gets screwed
if he would send dance + sod
together
swift tinsel
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
vagrant fulcrum
yeah that exactly
half quest
I mean it’s right there
ashen trail
is shadow blades and flagellation always used together
hazy breach
Yes, but not at the exact same time
ashen trail
Yes, but not at the exact same time
so bad idea to macro together then?
trynna get some of this button clutter off my bars
fluid moth
Flagellation is usually a few GCDs before so you can ramp up the stacks for your secret tech
unborn cave
is there a rule of thumb for when not to send your SD+SoD+ST combo based on the remaining cooldown of your main cds?
like, "don't send anything if there is 20sec or less on flag"
unborn cave
is it actually 20?
grizzled wharf
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
hazy breach
Ye 20-25ish
You just gotta make sure you have atleast ~40s left on your second dance whenever you press flag
unborn cave
I'm struggling a bit in M+ with sub, the spec is really rigid with CDs and dungeons have too much variance depending on routing, speed, etc.
sometimes I can't remember how many things ive sent between my cds and the downtime makes things desync and shit haha
unborn cave
You just gotta make sure you have atleast ~40s left on your second dance wheneve...
by 2nd second dance you mean the one you'll send 2nd during burst, right ?
so if I have 1 available dance and the other one has 40 sec left I'm good, otherwise I should delay slightly
hazy breach
by 2nd second dance you mean the one you'll send 2nd during burst, right ?
so if...
Yes
brisk raptor
Is it helpful to update spellqueuewindow for sub rogue?
twilit phoenix
is this from using all mastery gems and enchants?>
grave delta
add the affix too 📈
slender abyss
Why its not playing arround Winstreak in Sims ?
prime ice
Do we play around the new tier set at all? I remember before the nerfs there was talk of making sure to not drop stacks before Dance
alpine wraith
you can still playa round it a bit on raid if adds are about to spawn etfc
prime ice
ahh you just happened to be answering my question as I asked it, awesome!
slender abyss
i still belelive its good to play arroujnd in M+
ive OCD its impsosible for me to not play arround winstreak
digital frigate
Should we macro backstab into shadow dance for an extra Danse Macabre stack?
blissful gale
Should we macro backstab into shadow dance for an extra Danse Macabre stack?
we do
hazy breach
You can macro if you want to, but if you dont you have more flexibility by not needing to dance at 0 cp 
final holly
The macro I got from here needs me to press the button twice so it works fine even when you're at 6+ CP
spark tusk
You can macro if you want to, but if you dont you have more flexibility by not n...
We had entered the holy land. We saw the light of god. Why have we been cast back into the fire
Of casting backstab in dance
worn ivy
ive been hitting dummies arround 2hr already playying arround winstreak in st and aoe
alpine wraith
blame tier nerfs
alpine wraith
yea maybe over 100000 tries it can be almost neutral
worn ivy
hold 8 stacks always
alpine wraith
but on most bosses you can kinda play around it
only time will tell tbh
i also changed from legendary to windsinger
ramping
tepid trellis
I had 27k mastery at some point
alpine wraith
big stealthi
i have drink and mechano core ready to upgrade just need to get any 655 trink from m+
swift tinsel
Can you get enough mastery to out-buff our tier set
alpine wraith
spamming darkflame just in case i get logs or cloak/neck too
mastery is worse already likely than vers/crit at like 23k where i am
tepid trellis
With the affix this week. I go to 233% mastery during flag
alpine wraith
but you wont find me caring enough
alpine wraith
make finishers do so much you just dont evis outside dance
edgy zenith
you guys using double lens rn? or the nerubian thing with weapon?
alpine wraith
one true way
swift tinsel
I can get behind this
alpine wraith
im usiing blessed grip rn
next week im crafting dusk or dawn in helmet
vers/mastery
alpine wraith
yea you only need at least 1 gem to proc it
edgy zenith
gotcha
severe vapor
iirc theres talk of a haste breakpoint for sub or ?
paper iron
not at all
alpine wraith
no haste breakpoint no
west tide
guys i love sub ❤️
dense mountain
how do i fix coup not working in raid?
alpine wraith
yea sometimes it bugs out
west tide
ahh ok
paper iron
and never spend it in coup
tepid trellis
iirc theres talk of a haste breakpoint for sub or ?
Sub has almost 0 haste scaling
alpine wraith
you get some extra ticks of rupture and faster autos
now if fw miss rate didnt exist maybe haste would be bette
alpine wraith
but we get a fatty 18 to 22% miss rate on autos
alpine wraith
bring back halondrus
alpine wraith
if we had old old shadowblades maybe it would be stronger than this one
it made autos not miss at all
steady dune
the max level pvp tricket is simming only 6k dps behind my heroic transmitter, time to farm some conquest and rid myself of this stupid mini game
hazy breach
guys i love sub ❤️
Sub slaps. Its really fun
I love doing 0 damage and then shooting up to the top with my cooldowns 
west tide
its so fun and i now my ass misplayin but it seems like so is everyone.. lmfao
cause i be winging it mid pull in between cds still and im doin fine hahaha…
im like hmm i think i spend some right now..
maybe a symbols here..
steady dune
I love doing 0 damage and then shooting up to the top with my cooldowns <:ez:587...
i love hitting 5 -7 mil burst in aoe pulls, the mobs dieing shortly after, and looking like a god that pull
midnight geyser
why is assass usually played over sub in rwf
rustic geyser
ease and execute
bleak night
hasnt exile been sub every fight
steady dune
i thought you meant m+
swift tinsel
on our last gallywix kill it took a full minute and a half for someone to catch up
then 2nd flag came lol
steady dune
Is it not worth taking sub-opitimal gems to maximize the effects of the .15% crit bonus thing?
random comet
I’m usually getting gapped by two marks hunters on pull sadly
crystal spear
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
steady dune
Thanks 🙂
digital frigate
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
valid flame
What's the strat to parse on Vexie aside from pumping in intermission, stand closer to adds?
swift tinsel
good bike baits, nimble/sectech cleave
crystal spear
!wa
wicked joltBOT
hazy breach
maybe actually sub rogue buff??
I would be very surprised if we get a buff tbh 
tribal blade
I would be very surprised if we get a buff tbh <:kek:365510869557444628>
i agree highly doubt it
hazy breach
But nerfs to other classes are indirect buffs to us, which is what i suspect will happen
bleak night
plus you get to hear them complaining in raid the week they get nerfed
hazy breach
I mean sub is strong
tribal blade
yeah for sure
i think i'm slightly dooming seeing those meters
but not too worried
hazy breach
And its fun, i did a 6.5M opener on a ST boss today in keys with a fully stacked mastery buff
(+pot, +8 stacks, +coup stacked etc)
alpine wraith
yea shaman is so craszy
bleak night
im gonna play sub in normal raid on friday just to see how i do
tribal blade
but i mean come on
short radish
assi = sleep
swift tinsel
ToP is so much fun as sub
chrome flax
Im first dps in raid yet I parse grey for ilvl, blue-purple for all sub. Guildies parsing 90%+ in total so they are not that bad yet I finish above. How can I be doing so good yet so bad? Is sub rogue just that strong?
swift tinsel
first boss is straight Gapplebees
bleak night
Im first dps in raid yet I parse grey for ilvl, blue-purple for all sub. Guildie...
and how many ilvl parses are you comparing to
there are probably so few that you literally cant tell anything from it
swift tinsel
ilvl parses make me feel huge
chrome flax
casual guilde
we take long
half the raid is kinda bad
while other half doing good
short radish
ilvl kinda means nothing at this point
swift tinsel
oh yeah its pure ego
chrome flax
Word
bleak night
as long as you're hitting the boss and its dying you're doing well enough
chrome flax
Yeah, but for some reason I parse grey
I dont have the trinket of last season, is it that strong?
bleak night
there are probably people here who can point out any obvious mistakes if you post a log
and yeah transmitter is pretty big
chrome flax
Ok, I only have signet
which doesnt sink with flagelation and shadow blades
sync*
I was thinking maybe its because my guild take twice as long to kill a boss than the average 655 raider lol
short radish
could also be that
chrome flax
ok, yeah, im looking at parse and in heroic the boss take 2min we took 7
chrome flax
the average is 3min
chrome flax
Its a casual guild
violet torrent
Should I be fitting 2 dances between each flag/blades cd?
tribal blade
holy fucking shit the entire of wow is omega lagging
or at least my entire server is
supple verge
yea its fucked
violet torrent
Illidan is fucked
supple verge
im on a super small server and we never have issues
tribal blade
i heard classic is also lagging
plush roost
Rip liquid
supple verge
and its totally unplayable
paper helm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
short radish
plush roost
#GingiEMP
tribal blade
yeah our entire raid is running in place
sudden bone
for sblades/flag after opener, what cd should my shadow dance/sectec be at to ensure I'll have 2 for the window? assuming no down time and I can use every gcd
swift tinsel
have 1 dance ready and 2nd with 30sec or less on its cd
sudden bone
cool ty
tranquil garden
small server life, immune to lag spikes
ashen agate
30 seconds without reduction?
swift tinsel
Malfurion exploded
deft rain
i love being stuck under the map on sprocket lagged out
ashen agate
Stormrage is dead as well
sudden bone
ed is also dedge
warm marlin
apparently other blizzard games are down too
swift tinsel
ms went from 16 to 1600
warm marlin
gingi has deployed an absolutely massive emp
bleak night
sir a second gingi emp has struck na
deft rain
zul'jin on fire as well
sudden bone
seems like it's un-broked now?
swift tinsel
seems so
sudden bone
jynxed it
past token
im using the [LE] Rogue UI weakaura, why does it sometimes say "Use Black Powder" on one of the bars? i dont see BP in the rotation in the guide
tribal blade
probably a ddos
hazy breach
Presumably because it thinks you should be using black powder
supple verge
guys im cancelling all your raids
sudden bone
maybe it's telling you to use during shadow dance foor dance macabre
hazy breach
It is in the guides
sudden bone
nvm I was thinking shuriken storm
past token
it says it on ST fights
warm marlin
probably to save coup if flag blades is coming up soon
tribal blade
ok i started using stab in dance again
was not so bad going back to that since it was muscle memory for like 2 seasons
short radish
yeah feels okay
obtuse dirge
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
runic current
is so tricky bugged?
young roost
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
left ledge
this tier is giving me brain damage
paper iron
or u inspecing a sub as assa
twilit phoenix
your explanation is accurate with my recent experience
warped ferry
Anyone able to review my mugzee logs on sub from tonight? Feel like im doing fine on some pulls but not on other pulls
candid raven
Is there a way in raidbots that I can choose a specific loadout as default? Like when I sim and are specced into first dance for dslice, I can choose my non first dance build, but it doubles the iterations, because now it wants to sim 2 different talent builds. I just want it to sim the one I selected and forget about whatever I had specced originally, so it doesn't double the iterations
signal cobalt
Hey friends, is there a good sub rogue video guide I should watch to learn? Only played assa before
vernal junco
one silly question:
do we still need to equip a dagger in offhand? why?
paper iron
!oh
wicked joltBOT
Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.
paper iron
@vernal junco
vernal junco
ty
acoustic lodge
these overcoat mogs go so hard
Wait, there's black one?
simple garnet
is there a link somewhere in this discord for a good plater profile to track debuffs
thick temple
anyone know why this back is m+ bis (and its simming higher than my back with mastery). ive never seen one secondary enchantment alone before. does it give a lot of agi or something compared to others?
steady dune
i was almost able to get that last m+ /cry
someone got it and didnt need it, but the stupid ilvl rules
also verse is about equal to mastery
thick temple
i thought the ratio was still like 80/20/15/5 for like mas>vers>crit>haste
steady dune
so all the verse is worth more than less mastery with a useless secondary
hexed ore
I'm picking rogue up sub again for the first time since mid Dragonflight (good riddance invigorating shadowdust)
Can I get a quick once over to check my opener is correct (minus the cold blood SecTech which I know should be the 2nd SecTech)
steady dune
weights change based on yoru gear, just sim it and be happy
hexed ore
I've set up stand alone key binds but also have a Dance/Symbols/Backstab macro to cut down on opener keybinds, would there be any issues with that?
steady dune
I did have a question though, if using the PvP trinket with a 1m CD, shoudl i use it on cd or wait for the burst window? looks like it will be up every other burst
!macro
wet plank
Flag/blades it wouldn’t be worth it like the priory trinket if you used it every other
molten citrus
I did have a question though, if using the PvP trinket with a 1m CD, shoudl i us...
you hold it for burst
thick temple
is there an incentive for me to find some ppl killing mythic kyveza so i can get myth transmitter, was not able to raid at the end of s1 and the tier list says mythic transmitter is 2nd best before house of cards
steady dune
sweet, you guys are the best.
its a dps loss over the transmitter, but id rather the qol
thick temple
well i dont plan to get myth cards soon, no guild atm
molten citrus
is there an incentive for me to find some ppl killing mythic kyveza so i can get...
just get a pvp trinket or heroic house of cards
wouldn't say its worth trying to go back and farm kyveza 
steady dune
no doubt, farm up 700 conquest and be happy
you wont have to do the stupid mini game
thick temple
better than hero transmitter in terms of use trinket?
old anchor
i have a dumb question does details overexaggerate dps cause compared to logs im losing out on 100k dps
molten citrus
better than hero transmitter in terms of use trinket?
nah just about equal
molten citrus
i have a dumb question does details overexaggerate dps cause compared to logs im...
if you mean for keys logs generally look lower. if you mean raid its sometimes because certain add dmg does not count in logs etc
swift tinsel
hey got an Azerokk's so now I can get trolled with out-of-cd procs exclusively
heady garden
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
shrewd shadow
think i may have a tad to much mastery out of combat
shrewd shadow
how much until its not worth statting it?
shrewd shadow
heres my sim currently only a 642 item level https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5CgQWoQTzkDdv61s45KtAQ
not great
random hare
yeah too much
That’s it? 
silver obsidian
i have a dumb question does details overexaggerate dps cause compared to logs im...
Details only tracks dps while in combat, WCL counts the entire dungeon time
swift tinsel
I still have 4pc s1 lol
west tide
backstab in dance not in the apl ?
swift tinsel
I've got one in my vault but I'm trying to also escape 0pc prison
so I might get the pvp one in the meantime
random hare
I’m rdy for mythic prog now
shrewd shadow
so I might get the pvp one in the meantime
wdym?
random hare
Man does it feel weird to use a normal trinket again
swift tinsel
we're only on hc atm so won't see mythic for weeks
west tide
praying for my vault
swift tinsel
I can't wait to just macro a trinket to blades and never think about it
random hare
Well I told my RL it’s a 8k dps gain but I can lose gcds and I’m not that good on transmitter
I didn’t play it in s1
At all
So
I kinda took it on normal which was 8k dps
swift tinsel
even if you did the fuckbag orb can troll you and float through walls
west tide
#scammed
random hare
bro it was prob 40k for someone else
Not rly
The other guy was like 9k
We do splits
west tide
dam no way
ahhhh ok ok
its still massive for us everywhere dam shame
i aint seein that shit
random hare
Ye
random hare
even if you did the fuckbag orb can troll you and float through walls
Yea it’s really bad in this raid
Had it go under the floor many times
It’s mega cancer on gallywix
swift tinsel
idk I'll see what drops from raid tomorrow and probably take HoC and then get 4pc next week with vault and cata charges
bc if nothing drops from raid the best I can do is 3pc and fuck that
slate lantern
Man does it feel weird to use a normal trinket again
Yeah now i hit flag and my brain is ready to do everything besides what I need to do lol, but it'll be so nice once I readjust
lucid jackal
anyone know why this back is m+ bis (and its simming higher than my back with ma...
Stats for sub are vers=mastery > other
So its just a lot of good stat
left ledge
so is it better i just dont press my finishers before i go into cds?
swift tinsel
wym
old anchor
do you every SoD with ST when shadows is still on cd?
swift tinsel
with streak stacks?
old anchor
or just wait it out
swift tinsel
eh, unless you've got a big amp
swift tinsel
you just kinda play normal
swift tinsel
you can hold if you want
random hare
i just dont press
If u have stacks ye
left ledge
then didnt get any stacks until second dance
pure dust
guys on gallywix, it is possible to shadowstep into the hole
random hare
U can just rupture ur way into ur cds
pure dust
I just found out the hardway lol
random hare
Originally with the old set it was 1% dps gain
When it was 10 stacks and 3%
Now it’s 8 stacks and 2% and shadow dmg is a lot less
swift tinsel
yeah iirc its no different to hold or play totally normally
random hare
U can if there’s a big pack it’s a big gain
tribal blade
i feel like if you're close to cds and have high stacks you def want to save em
random hare
But st idk
tribal blade
you ramp your cds way faster
jaunty heath
how do i sim all flasks?
strong ingot
i feel like if you're close to cds and have high stacks you def want to save em
Which stacks are we talking here?
swift tinsel
I'll see if I can dig up the old apl call for the undermine set and holding stuff
strong ingot
Got you
random hare
Btw
tribal blade
if you on your final 1-2 finishers cast evis or bp and lose like 4-8 stacks
tribal blade
it feels really bad
swift tinsel
actions+=/variable,name=undermine_tier,value=set_bonus.thewarwithin_season_2_4pc&!buff.shadow_dance.up&cooldown.flagellation.remains<25 if you wanna play with it too
tribal blade
before flag
tribal blade
yeah it feels so bad when it happens
tribal blade
i just have a seperate sectec+CB macro haha
random hare
Ye same I was just eating
tribal blade
yeah i don't want to manually press CB
random hare
So it was abit sus
tribal blade
haha gotcha
swift tinsel
thats my old BS in dance bind lol
random hare
Brb
swift tinsel
been playing with that !bs macro and its been kinda nice
tribal blade
i just left my old dance+stab bind empty
just in case it came back
and it came back
swift tinsel
I just had it on R since that was my sin ambush bind too so the math checked out in my brain lol
but then that became naked sectech
steady dune
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
warm marlin
yea keeping old cb sectec macro and making a naked bind is the way
hoary lotus
how many bleeds out before you start your cd's like first pull of the dungeon
swift tinsel
until tank stops moving
can just put it on biggest mobs and maintain after cds
on stuff that'll live >=10sec
can reliably get 3-5 casts which is 6-10 ruptures with replicating
skip vanish opener and just jump in
slate beacon
yo ok quick question, im kinda dumb so i cant do the wowhead guide for some reason, is there a video that explains sub rogue for 11.1. the one video i saw was from ptr the other was a guy in a +3
plain dust
id just trust the guy in the 3
slate beacon
basically, im gray parsing all over the friggin place (fury warrior main btw)
ok sick
but fr tho i'd like to keep my raid spot n shit
steady dune
is there a way to macro a healthstone if you have one and its off cd, or a health pot if not?
random hare
That’s one hell of a pfp if ive ever seen one
steady dune
Carlos?
random hare
but fr tho i'd like to keep my raid spot n shit
I mean grey logs 
slate beacon
u want a link i dont get it
silent ruin
Why are we pressing back stab in dance now?
random hare
U just want to send double dance and double symbols on every cooldown
swift tinsel
Why are we pressing back stab in dance now?
says in the pin
rocky ocean
yesterday my friend showed how he played sub
bro pressed everything on cd like it was ret paladin 💀
random hare
U just want to send double dance and double symbols on every cooldown
That’s ur way out of grey logs already bear guy
slate beacon
saying just play sin isnt really real rn
random hare
it is really real
rocky ocean
saying just play sin isnt really real rn
send logs
random hare
silent ruin
says in the pin
Can't find anything on it
bleak night
opener is a mess
gotta reread wowhead guide and spend some time on a dummy
right away that'll get you out of grey parses
swift tinsel
yeah was just gonna ss that
rocky ocean
💀
slate beacon
that's literally what im doing right this minute
so i fat finger SoD alot so i use the macro but it doesnt help
steady dune
your symbols is after sectech
slate beacon
slate beacon
yeah the double tap is cringe but like i said i come from fury where i press every ability 6-14 presses PER ABILITY
and im trying to unlearn that
fury is like frantic button mashing
and this is ... not that
and it's hard AF to unlearn so i double tap shit
steady dune
fix that first and then ask people to look at your logs
civic forge
can someone explain the first 3 globals in 200ms? 
my brain's not big enough
slate beacon
like i sometimes send a SPENDER on full CP when they're refunded
random hare
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
slate beacon
yeah im usin that
random hare
like i sometimes send a SPENDER on full CP when they're refunded
Send a sender
What
random hare
U didn’t even write sender
slate beacon
like ill shadowstrike on full CP b/c they got refunded and im button mashing SStrike b/c that's what i would have hit
random hare
swift tinsel
!wa
wicked joltBOT
bleak night
honestly practicing the opener is biggest thing you can work on, not doing that properly messes up everything that comes after
random hare
honestly practicing the opener is biggest thing you can work on, not doing that ...
Ofc ofc
Ofc ofc cuh G sheeeesh
swift tinsel
also recommend opening from stealth
slate beacon
that's an outlier (hopefully) i normally do that
swift tinsel
looking at your vexie log is a bit of a mess
opener jumble on lockenstock, you wanna flag after first strike, then finish
CB 2nd sectech in blades
rocky ocean
I think cb is the least problem from the pic
bleak night
you can still use the macro, just gotta have a seperate bind for sectec without cb
swift tinsel
oh yeah the jumble sums up the rest
bleak night
but ye the log review basically comes down to go hit a dummy
swift tinsel
always finish after flag, always build after blades
kind bluff
I don't see it in the guide, do we play around our tier set?
swift tinsel
you can if you want
if you wanna preserve stacks just rupture/snd with 20-25left on flag or something like that
with 8 stacks idr how long it takes on average to max
random hare
I don't see it in the guide, do we play around our tier set?
it’s just being a main rogue thing
slate beacon
on backstab 1 do i press symbols and dance in the same global prior to stab or with it
warm marlin
fury is like frantic button mashing
unless you’re trying for like a big change why not play outlaw
random hare
on backstab 1 do i press symbols and dance in the same global prior to stab or w...
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
slate beacon
unless you’re trying for like a big change why not play outlaw
i dont have an answer to that question, idk
i didnt realize that i was gonna have 30 tabs open on a wednesday night researching this like a thesis tbh but i do want to get it so im just gonna keep at it
so if i use the !bs macro does that replace SD on my action bar permanently or do i just have another instance of SD?
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
misty dome
anyone in here use northern sky wa's?
acoustic lodge
https://www.wowhead.com/item=231550/darkfuse-lowdown-coat
oh boy it's a boring grind to get it
lilac plume
Is it even worth picking the Rookery buff when it always ends up breaking stealth?
15k a second sounds low
random hare
What rookery buff
lilac plume
Bird buff after first boss
misty dome
i click that buff off instantly
swift tinsel
oh boy it's a boring grind to get it
Yeah it’s abysmal so I’ll either get it eventually or literally never
lilac plume
Per player; yes, but you can remove it from yourself
lilac plume
Lasts 5 whole minutes, usually not up for boss, only for the trash
lilac plume
And it also breaks stealth, wanted to know if it was not worth it as much as it seems worthless
silent ruin
the dance backstab macro doesn't work on the stealth bar, correct ?
rocky ocean
luck issue
wild hornet
!logs
plush roost
After the first intermission on reverb is there a reason some logs are holding flagblades for 20ish seconds, theres no barrels for about 25ish seconds well after cds
Is it for flawless form stacks going into the next barrel set?
Can really hold it for those barrels either since you're losing a cast. Yucky timer
Only had time for like 10 pulls tonight maybe missing something
crystal oasis
TW scaling might be broken
modest delta
what class is the best dps increase for hoc hypothetically?
spriest?
or sub better
crystal oasis
only 3rd best for spriest
Just get everyone to sim but sub is probably the best user of it
modest delta
ya apparantly according to sims my 616 trans mitter to hoc heroic upgrade isn't the biggest upgrade in my guild somehow
trying to figure out why that is
spriest dev got it over me according to sims
random hare
Because it isn’t big
crystal oasis
Maybe they just have even worse trinkets. Gotta remember you are replacing one that is equivalent of 650 in most other trinkets
random hare
Hoc is mainly an escape from transmitter angle
Not really a huge upgrade
Affects ur gameplay more than ur dps
You get to send ur dps without doing weird shit
Orb falling or losing gcds potentially
molten citrus
i mainly just fucking hate TT
get pvp trinket
if ur transmitter is 616 its prolly even an upgrade
chrome palm
can someone link me dance backstab macro
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
molten citrus
the badge?
ye 658
modest delta
Bet i gotra farm that forsure
what would line ups be like for blades tho cuz its 1 min cd
every other ig?
warm marlin
just macro to blades like its a 90s trinket
random comet
that's why its only barely equal despite having 35 ilvls
you're holding it for 1/3 of the time
mystic remnant
!wa
wicked joltBOT
sudden breach
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
round latch
TW scaling might be broken
its fine wdym 
crystal rain
oddly enough, i feel like im doing less dmg with 4p vs old 4p, is there anything im suppose to change? or am i just shit
round latch
west tide
-0.1% compared to 626 transmitter
oh no way really that close vs mythic?
nice time for some pvp..
random comet
626 is heroic transmitter
random comet
its still pog
west tide
im in prison..
worn ivy
Do we play arround winning streak or na ?
short radish
Feel craft says we do when coming up to flag
valid ocean
Can someone clarify what this actually means from the wowhead guide:
It is worth mentioning that Unseen Blade still takes priority over Secret Technique if the target is under the effect of Fazed.
There is no mention of Unseen blade or coup de grace in the rotation section/opener etc talking about it having prio over sec tech, what am i missing?
the icy veins does explicitly list coup de grace in its prio list but has it below sec tech
wild hornet
!atrophic
tribal blade
does anyone know if you can evasion or cloak the big knock circle on the 1st pull of darkflame
bleak night
ive definitely panic pressed both of them and not taken damage
tribal blade
oh it's physical, does evasion work?
tribal blade
it's prob evasion yeah
i vaguely rememebr doing that too 1 time and still got hit
maybe skill issue
short radish
does anyone know if you can evasion or cloak the big knock circle on the 1st pul...
No
short radish
I'm like 90% sure you can't do either
tribal blade
ok yeah that makes sense
bleak night
i try not to test stuff like that lmao
pure badger
hey guys, question is the current tier set just a downgrade from the previous?
tribal blade
because i have definitely panic pressed both cds and gotten hit by it
short radish
I tested week 1 and I'm pretty sure it went badly
tribal blade
how do you do 1st pull
pure badger
or do you need to change how you play
tribal blade
just bust immediately on the 1st pack?
because if you wait for the other packs to get pulled it there's no way to dps
bleak night
actually i should start noting down which stuff works on what when im doing keys
cause this shit is random as hell sometimes
about what works and what doesnt
like i learned the hard way you cant precloak to soak on priory
vale pine
Can someone clarify what this actually means from the wowhead guide:
```It is wo...
where is that from, i miss context maybe it has the wrong spell id
oh i see it is a typo, ill fix thanks for mentioning
valid ocean
oh i see it is a typo, ill fix thanks for mentioning
Thank you 🙏
vale pine
it just mentions that you would coup first if you have it and fazed up instead of secret first
jolly pasture
Ppl using pvp trinket now over transmitter??
valid ocean
it just mentions that you would coup first if you have it and fazed up instead o...
Ah okay, that felt like something I should be doing but wasn't. Is that only true outside of the opener?
shy scarab
Ppl using pvp trinket now over transmitter??
Some are transmitter still better i think. Or ppl that doesnt have it
vale pine
you won't have coup up in the opener before using secret
the pvp trinket is a decent/good short term option
i can put it on the trinket sim
jolly pasture
Will have to sim that. We gotten 0 hoc drops and im pretty far down the prio because sims..
vale pine
what is the item level you can get it ?
valid ocean
you won't have coup up in the opener before using secret
yeah fair I guess I mean on a flag+sb big go in m+ where I do sometimes have a coup from a previous pull
vale pine
would still secret first probably because you want the cdr on secret asap
valid ocean
Cool thanks
molten citrus
what is the item level you can get it ?
The PvP trinket? 658
thorny holly
anyone know how much mastery i should aim for
bleak night
All of it
molten citrus
You never really aim for a set number of stats
molten citrus
You just sim your upgrades
bleak night
vale pine
thats how stats are distributed on "bis"
you see a lot of mastery and vers, not much crit and close to no haste
thorny holly
i thought crit was better
than versatility
just looking at warcraft logs
was just wondering
molten citrus
just looking at warcraft logs
No one is full bis yet
vale pine
crit is still good, but if you want to know whats best within the gear you have
a simulation is the best option
thorny holly
whats a good sim for retail
molten citrus
Raidbots
thorny holly
any way to import it with gear in my bag to see whats best or nah?
molten citrus
Simc addon
Simulationcraft or w/e
Then you type /simc and copy the string
And paste it into raidbots website
@vale pine the pvp trinket might need some kinda conditions added to hold for flag/blades since it’s a 1min
I have no idea if standard sims do that on their own or not
vale pine
ye, its not showing up on the sim, let me quick check
errant raft
!sims
wicked joltBOT
Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
errant raft
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
jolly pasture
Is there really no optimization with tier? Like sending evis on 8 stacks before dance feels bad, and this feelycrafting also feels bad
bleak night
Sending ruptures to preserve stacks going into cds was the optimization
Then they nerfed tier
Now it’s even, and still worth doing if you’re going into a damage amp/large pull
molten citrus
Is there really no optimization with tier? Like sending evis on 8 stacks before ...
iirc its net even to send ruptures before flag window
so like
if it feels better to you, you could still do it if you wanted i think
it just isn't impactful enough to be a gain to do
jolly pasture
If its net even then id do it because its a way to mitigate rng
molten citrus
i mean you're trading those finishers doing zdps
for a little more % on your first dance
so its kinda w/e
i don't think 'mitigating that rng' would cause you to do more dps
jolly pasture
True
So i guess its just cursed and this tier parsing will be about rng of not dropping stacks before dances
random comet
the entire theme of the sets is gambling so yeah
jolly pasture
Not in a fun way
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> the pvp trinket might need some kinda conditions added to ...
trinket use condition change does not seem to be a gain
molten citrus
trinket use condition change does not seem to be a gain
idk who cooked up the first pvp trinket sims, maybe Eleem
@lilac stag is the one who first told me about it
molten citrus
maybe its the opposite
gritty knot
I have 626 HC Transmitter only and PvP Trinket always sims around 50 k less dps than Transmitter. Is that normal? I thought it's pretty equal
molten citrus
there is one instance of eleem talking about it in the internal channel
but that had more to do with pacemaker sim issue i think
molten citrus
I have 626 HC Transmitter only and PvP Trinket always sims around 50 k less dps ...
with fully upgraded pvp trinket?
vale pine
both -1.9% dps
zinc bluff
Does fuu have any recorded/logged dungeon gameplay?
gritty knot
with fully upgraded pvp trinket?
Yes
molten citrus
thats in line
what level transmitter
molten citrus
yeah
vale pine
but there is no apl change needed ^^
molten citrus
ye
vale pine
unsure if its worth to add to the trinket sim now tho
molten citrus
are sims weird about all trinkets
vale pine
as it is very far down if you compare
molten citrus
being in certain slots
jaunty heath
Okay I get it… I need to do pvp… hc transmitter Andy…
vale pine
are sims weird about all trinkets
raidbots sims both slots, so its whatever
JUST use top gear
and not gear compare
as gear compare or dropoptimizer don't
molten citrus
Okay I get it… I need to do pvp… hc transmitter Andy…
i mean you don't HAVE to, it's technically slightly worse than heroic transmitter.
rocky lava
I replaced champ track transmitter with pvp trinket. Godsent with all the sensory overload mechanics this tier 
umbral topaz
I have a mythic transmitter and even i consider taking the dps loss and having to do PvP over using that shit.. 
jaunty heath
i mean you don't HAVE to, it's technically slightly worse than heroic transmitte...
Yeah but the qol
molten citrus
its just that pvp trinket is really good for people who have no transmitter
jaunty heath
A lil bit of suffering for freedom
molten citrus
or are tired of transmitter
umbral topaz
God i fucking hate that trinket
molten citrus
unsure if its worth to add to the trinket sim now tho
well its definitely not a BiS trinket, its just really nice for people who just swapped to sub or don't have a mythic transmitter
for early gearing purposes
vale pine
fair
gritty knot
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
void ocean
wtf, did they rly kill 1-Arm Bandit that fast
molten citrus
like for me, i'm just coming back to pve this season so i have no s1 gear
wild hornet
Anyone able to check my logs thread?
wild hornet
wtf, did they rly kill 1-Arm Bandit that fast
Yeah its tuned like a 3rd boss
molten citrus
so pvp trinket being good is great in my shoes for rn
wild hornet
It just takes a bit of brain to do coils and coins and boss is free
Lockenstock needed a nerf mid prog
vale pine
wtf, did they rly kill 1-Arm Bandit that fast
possible, the problem here is mostly the diffrent weekly reset, means liquid got the kill faster due to being the first one to progress the fight with the new power level from reset
it is a bit sad
void ocean
but they had troubles with Sproketmonger even after the reset
molten citrus
echo is gonna blast through that boss as well i'm sure
wild hornet
echo is gonna blast through that boss as well i'm sure
I hope
molten citrus
bandit i mean
jaunty heath
Global release is about time man, I’m from EU rooting for liquid and I think it would be the best for everyone involved
vale pine
echo is gonna blast through that boss as well i'm sure
echo does not get the world first for it
which is what i mean
wild hornet
echo does not get the world first for it
It all comes down to who pulls thru for gallywix
jaunty heath
Makes EU feel bad when they loose, makes NA get stupid comments when they win and loose
molten citrus
wf only matters on last boss really
jaunty heath
Everyone is sick of it I think
Yeah but still
People on social media love to hate on everyone
wild hornet
wf only matters on last boss really
Thats like naowh with "world first lvl 80"
vale pine
wf only matters on last boss really
thats correct
molten citrus
Thats like naowh with "world first lvl 80"
well i assume thats just fun for him yk
jaunty heath
Even tho I support liquid I like watching the race in general and perma comments on the release gets annoying real quick
wild hornet
well i assume thats just fun for him yk
I didnt say its a bad thing
Just threw it in
Cause the real prize really is at that fat boblin
bleak night
with the multiple emps, maintenances, and instance issues liquid has had i dont think there even is any time advantage at this point lmao
molten citrus
is naowh in the race these days?
tall girder
!sd
weary crag
fumbles on the magnet trinket yesterday cos i have the crit mythic+ one
dry dune
Can someone tell me why should I or should not use vanish in my opener? Wowhead has opener without vanish and method with vanish.
vale pine
and blizz does not care about 
tall girder
which one is the SoD macro
molten citrus
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
jaunty heath
I will say as a PLAYER EU resets are goated
molten citrus
that one
tall girder
cheers
jaunty heath
Short, way less issues
bleak night
na beta testers