subtlety

[vocal narwhal]

thanks tho

[young mural]

exactly

[swift tinsel]

Yeah that's pretty normal lol

[vocal narwhal]

oh okey thanks

How do people maintain that high overall dps tho

ive seen someone with ish 2 mill overall

im stuck at 1.5

[swift tinsel]

knowing which pulls you can CD def helps

[vocal narwhal]

Yeah true

[swift tinsel]

and if your tank is pulling around your cooldowns, that'll be a big advantage

[vocal narwhal]

Okey,thanks mate!

[swift tinsel]

Np!

Sub isn't the greatest overall details spec compared to some others but we do really good damage and are spectacular boss damage spec

[hazy breach]

Having a premade tank and/or having the route be good for your cooldowns also helps immensely

[swift tinsel]

"hey wait 15 seconds and I can solo this pack"

but yeah, ran a few with a guild tank in discord and telling him when we can do big goes was way more fun than just trying to yolo it with a pug tank

[hazy breach]

Yes its a very large difference

[swift tinsel]

or when someone else is gonna send so stuff doesn't die mid-flag

[upper narwhal]

being able to say "I have cds pull big" will double your dps ong

[hazy breach]

I have cds = flag and blades is ready
I have BONGO damage = flag, blades, 8 stacks of 4p, coup and pot ready

[ebon oyster]

[candid raven]

Imagine having 4p

[swift tinsel]

Its looking like a vault/catalyst angle for 4pc lol

Just way too much loot competition on Zen token

[candid raven]

I have 0p right now 😦

[hazy breach]

[swift tinsel]

8 people on Zen

[patent lichen]

I NEED MOOOOOOORE

[alpine wraith]

big

[paper iron]

dont wait 15s it will loses house of cards stacks D:

[jolly pasture]

yall crafting lens on dagger?

[half comet]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ebon oyster]

maybe im very wrong but id say sending dagger craft is just insane value

dont know why would you almost ever craft sth else in normal circumstances

[alpine wraith]

why read numbers when you can ask

just so i can tell them to read numbers

[young mural]

!sb

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[young mural]

oo

[ionic wharf]

At 640 ilvl, doing like ~1.5 mil overall depending on the dungeon. I think this is on the lower side, yeah?

[alpine wraith]

depends if tank hates you it might not be as bad

[ionic wharf]

Hehe. That's fair. Living PuG life, so some tanks are rough to work with. 1.5 mil is average across multiple dungeons. My assumption is low because seeing other classes pull 2mil or so with similar ilvl.

Of course comparing other classes is a bit moot, but I don't think rogue is particularly far behind

[waxen hawk]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[indigo steppe]

are people using catalyst on hero track?

i see so many people with tier

im still 0 pieces lol

[random comet]

There’s nuance to it but the idea of holding yourself back to try and ensure everything you do is perfectly efficient seems nuts to me

[ashen terrace]

is the coup tier bug fixed? seems like it

[chrome palm]

I haven’t had it remove any stacks after pressing it so I believe so

Only when you press it like normal

[paper iron]

yea, we have 2 catalyst charges, so "just" need 2 parts from raid

[wide ravine]

When do yall start saving shadow dance for shadow blades to have 2 shadow dances up

[delicate rover]

so question, if i make a dagger without a crest because its still an upgrade for me can I upgrade it later on when I get a crest?

or am I sol

[hazy breach]

Kinda depends, but you need roughly 40s left on your second charge whenever you press flag

[tranquil garden]

Yes recraft

[hazy breach]

So 1 charge + 40s on the second one

[tranquil garden]

It costs but not as much as from scratch

[hazy breach]

So like 20-25

[wide ravine]

Oh I see, so the first one will build into the second one

[delicate rover]

oh swet ty

[steel zinc]

Someone with 4p is tier fixed?

[hazy breach]

Think so

[wide ravine]

Idk I was just thinking about it in terms of BFA assa if I pooled energy with 8 seconds left on toxic blades it would give me enough energy

I just switch to sub so I was trying to figure out the timing

Was looking for tricks

[hazy breach]

Roughly 20-25

[steel zinc]

Stealthi has 4p and sectech and coup

[wide ravine]

Kk

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

What

[steel zinc]

Sorry ment if the sectech and coup Bug with the stacks is fixed

[hazy breach]

Yes

[twilit phoenix]

bro I can't believe i've been playing with WM in keys this whole time

[steel zinc]

Wow insane they fixed it

[swift tinsel]

it treats coup as one hit now?

W

[hazy breach]

I think so

[gritty knot]

Is Signet of the Priory - Trinket really that bad or are the sims fked up? it's simmed as 658 and its still 40k worse than 639 empowering crystal from last season + 626 hc transmitter

[elfin hound]

i got 4p. it is comfirmed fixed?

[hazy breach]

It has a 3 min effective cd

Which is not good

[gritty knot]

2 min

[hazy breach]

Ye

But you dont use it

Until 3 min

[gritty knot]

okay. damn. i wanna change that fkn transmitter finally but no luck yet

[hazy breach]

If its not a 90s trinket, its not good

[random comet]

Sometimes even 90s trinkets that aren’t transmitter aren’t good either 😂

[gritty knot]

i got funhouse lens from delves too as 658 which has 1:30 min cd too. and it tells me to change with anub crystal. it sims 17k better but fk that 😄 i dont use 2x on use 1:30 min trinkets...

[obtuse shard]

Jump 3 times

[ashen terrace]

Press coup like 7 times and didn’t lose stacks

Gonna assume it’s fixed

[shell delta]

30m raid searching purple shit in melee

[copper siren]

reading wowhead rotation guide and have a question. I was understanding we use Secret Technique with Symbols during SD. I did a few keys and found often SD and ST come off CD around the same time. sometimes they are slightly off but usually not by much. The wowhead guide mentions in rotation under outside SD use ST during Symbols. So we should use ST regardless of SD if we have symbols?

for ST fights

[oak grotto]

Yo quick question, when you get Coup de Grace, should you send it ASAP or do you wanna get combopoints and then send it?

Also, if you send it with 5 cp, will it do 5CP + the 5 from Coup so it does dmg like it had 10 CP?

[spark cargo]

Are we dead in PvP?

[alpine wraith]

expected lul

but dont worry almost all sub rogues uninstalled already after the last 3 nerfs

maybe someone did a video with open mouth

[spark cargo]

We have less than 1% representation at 1800+

Aug, Guardian, Prot are the only lower

[paper iron]

isnt that just

a buff in pvp?

bit less of burst sure, but looks like a way higher sustain damage outside of big cds

but what do i know, didnt play pvp since tww launched

[alpine wraith]

you have time to delete that

before you get piled on

[swift tinsel]

Can we copypasta that Sectech buff please

[cedar eagle]

cant seem to find it, what ilvl is it worth going 2set/2set

[bleak night]

why no post in outlaw

[hazy breach]

new 2p by itself stinky

[cedar eagle]

pain

[cedar eagle]

i do not play pirate

[hazy breach]

You could sim it but unless its a massive ilvl gap i doubt its worth

[cedar eagle]

yeah thats why i asked cuz i simmed 2 piece w heroic pieces including a socket and its still a loss

[bleak night]

time to swap to sin

[young mural]

guys am i fucking r3tarded or something?

i want to switch from sub to sin

[foggy egret]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[true citrus]

Do you guys use black powder that much in M+, feels like a wet noodle to me (I am a Noob)

[bright elk]

Above like 6 or 7 targets it’s worth iirc

[jaunty heath]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vRLASxVUiQCrH2dyXQGfJA

I'm the odd one out for some reason

but the difference is so small

if u get unlucky surely old set is better

[icy mulch]

mine was the same when I got 2 set, ~5k gain to go 2pc/2pc

[flint umbra]

Any one know if transmitter is a sim bait? it's seem like i should keep the 626 transmitter until I get house of cards...

[young mural]

NOT SIM BAIT, GOOD TRINKET, INSANELY ANNOYING TO USE

[spark tusk]

It is absurdly powerful for sub and is not sim bait.

It is obviously worse than any other trinket, however, if you use the trinket and the ball spawns through a wall and floats off into space.

[swift tinsel]

I’m getting Nam flashbacks

[flint umbra]

Well that sucks, I seriously hate using that trinket.... Guess I'll be stuck using s1 trinket for a long time then xd

[frigid dragon]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

If you really hate it and dont get the house of cards a conquest pvp trinket is not too horrible

But it is absolutely worse than transmitter

[leaden prairie]

can blizzard nerf transmitter again

another 20% or so

maybe 50%

so its worth to use any random trinket instead

[swift tinsel]

Just delete it and replace my trinket slot with a 665 HoC plz

[leaden prairie]

guys

any trinket

i will trade it

against anything

[paper iron]

just get the trinket zac

it s easy

[final holly]

Even ascendency serum?

[swift tinsel]

I’m gonna get a normal hoc in my vault and I will choose it over tier

[leaden prairie]

lfr house of card

i will

[swift tinsel]

Which is a bad idea

[fathom gazelle]

only reason i hate trans is coz sometimes orb drops out of platforms

[paper iron]

show this to your lootleader

ez

[swift tinsel]

But it’s the principle

[paper iron]

absolutely disgusting that transmitter is still that high lmao, but that s a sub niche

[swift tinsel]

Make HoC add 10% Sectech damage as a cantrip effect in addition to the mastery

So we HAVE to get it first

Loot prio

[paper iron]

make HoC rogue only trinket

[swift tinsel]

It’s thematic

[paper iron]

[swift tinsel]

immersion

I mean

[jaunty heath]

Transmitter in 30mans

[swift tinsel]

We’re rocking a Spectral Gambler set

[jaunty heath]

That shitty whacky orb

[paper iron]

yea what a great mog

yet

[swift tinsel]

It’s thematiiiiiic

[paper iron]

cant play outlaw

[austere tangle]

anyone have a macro that smart summons g-99 breakneck in undermine, dragonriding mount in dragonrideable zones, and regular ground mount in non dragonriding zones like dungeons etc?

i used to have it

[paper iron]

so not fully thematic

[austere tangle]

but i cant figure it out for the life of me

[paper iron]

gimme a second

[swift tinsel]

Just do /cast G-99 Breakneck

As a macro

[paper iron]

#showtooltip
/dismount
/cast [nomounted, noflyable] G-99 Breakneck
/run if not IsMounted() then C_MountJournal.SummonByID(0) end

[spark tusk]

yeh but I only want one button

[swift tinsel]

And you can add it to Opie or anything like that

[paper iron]

this should work

[swift tinsel]

Oh yeah defer to LE

[spark tusk]

don't defer to me censi had the macro

[austere tangle]

yeah but this macro

it wont differentiate between a ground moutn and a dragonriding mount right?

it just picks 1

[spark tusk]

Is summon ID 0 random mount?

[paper iron]

i think yea lisonna, i dont use it myself it got shared in guild earlier

[austere tangle]

like basically the idea is

[spark tusk]

I used to have one that did this as well but stopped using it

[swift tinsel]

Sorry I’m a bit glonky atm

[austere tangle]

if im in dornogal

i want to summon my dragon riding mount

if im in m+

[rustic geyser]

it will pick from your favourites list - pick a df one if you CAN, will pick ground if you CAN, and will pick breakneck if you CAN

[austere tangle]

i want to flex spectral tiger

[swift tinsel]

Getting free birthday drinks and also chocolate peanut butter bourbon cake

[paper iron]

in dungeon fox, outdoor fly, raid car

i got it

[austere tangle]

ahhhhh i see i see

fuck

see its a bandaid solution

cuz that means u gotta unfavorite ah moutn and transmog mount

which makes them harder to find

but if thats the best we got i suppose ill go for it

i swear i used to have the real version of the macro tho

[rustic geyser]

you put the ah mount and shit on opie

[swift tinsel]

Opie OP

[austere tangle]

aintnobody got time for addons

[paper iron]

or on some hidden bar somewhere

[rustic geyser]

opie OP

[spark tusk]

gimme a sec

[rustic geyser]

you can also get like mount addons that will reorder the mount list by used

typically that will sit the ah/mog mounts super high

[austere tangle]

oh

now that could be tech

[rustic geyser]

but Opie OP

[paper iron]

#showtooltip
/use [mod:ctrl]Grand Expedition Yak;[mod:shift]Renewed Proto-Drake;[mod:alt]Trader's Gilded Brutosaur;[indoors]Carcinized Zerethsteed;[outdoors]Wastewarped Deathwalker
/dismount [mounted]

could also go with mod apparently

[rustic geyser]

yeah that's a fair effort

but that also requires only wanting to ride specific mounts

though...

hmmmmmm

nah Opie Op

[paper iron]

#showtooltip
/cast [zone:Undermine] G-99 Breakneck
/cast [flyable] Smoldering Cinderbee;[noflyable] Acid Belcher

this would maybe work to differentiate indoor and outdoor

[rustic geyser]

I have a thousand mounts, don't make me choose a favourite child

[paper iron]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/mount-macro-to-summon-g-99-when-in-undermine/2065455/6

just browsing through this post

[rustic geyser]

I wish instead of an area being labled as "ground mont able"
you could have a condition where flying is unable
so that you could say mount a spider in an instance, on the same macro as a flying mount is on
but the macro will still choose a flying able mount because they can ALSO ground mount

[tranquil garden]

The red text to be clearable if we just had a few more characters. That 255 limit is rough.

[spark tusk]

#showtooltip
/cast [nomounted, noflyable] G-99 Breakneck
/run local id; if IsSubmerged() then id = 1654 elseif C_Spell.IsSpellUsable(360954) then id = 1591 elseif IsFlyableArea() then id = 1282 else id = 847 end; C_MountJournal.SummonByID(id)```

Each of those `id` s is a mount ID. the first is water mount. Second is skyriding mount, third is no-skyriding flying mount, last is ground mount

I haven't tested this with undermine stuff but that's an old one I used to use

It does, however, require you find the mount IDs you want

[tranquil garden]

How many characters do you have on that lisonna? If you've got like 40 left, you should be able to clear the error text as well.

The command is uhh, I'll have to look it up

[spark tusk]

IdTip addon shows you the mount IDs on mouseover

[spark tusk]

Only 15 left if you take out the tooltip

[rustic geyser]

mount journal enhanced is a good addon as well

super good

[naive zodiac]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[naive zodiac]

[spark tusk]

ecks dee

[rustic geyser]

shit I need my smart md back actually, forgot to gget that again after I got a new pc

[tranquil garden]

It pleased me to no end when my Mount macro ended up at exactly 255 characters. Sadly no goblin car support though

[fathom gazelle]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[crimson tree]

is sub good this patch?

[young mural]

you GOAT

ok please dont let NA down

[rough sigil]

Why don't we like Remnant of Darkness trinket?

Just wondering to be honest

[errant tinsel]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[unkempt basin]

My guess would be cause it has no innate stats

[austere tangle]

this works if u change flyable to advflyable btw

[paper iron]

[austere tangle]

[grave delta]

What's the difference between last patch and new patch that makes us like a bit of crit?

[paper iron]

guess with more stats we get closer to dr so why not some crit. Also i m pretty sure sims do only 1 cb with cds and none in between. So 2x less cb casts = more power to crit. But that s just guesses

[molten citrus]

trickster

[unborn cave]

what do you do when your Fazed procs on a target that dies before you can Coup de Grace ? do you send Coup anyway on next target or you use Black Powder for 20 seconds ?

[timber monolith]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[brisk creek]

do sub rogues need dagger in both hands? or can i go for the mace from pvp vendor cause its mast vers

[jaunty heath]

Daggers in both hands

[molten citrus]

yes

[brisk creek]

ok ty

[molten citrus]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[molten citrus]

slow offhands are extremely bad for sub

[calm palm]

what is the approx gain on using cb on 1st vs 2nd sectec?

nvm found it

[acoustic lodge]

If I plan on doing M+ and Raid. Should I get depth enchant or raidant power?

[celest night]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[subtle zodiac]

dmg is heavily based on your main hands ilvl right not really offhand?

[vocal lantern]

peeps will correct me if I remember wrong but depth is for raids, radiant power is for m+ as far as I know

[acoustic lodge]

correct, that's why i'm unsure of what to do since i plan on doing both

[subtle zodiac]

^ i use one of each but idk if thats super optimal

[vocal lantern]

I personally use radiant power because its still decent for ST, whereas depth seems a little lackluster in aoe

[acoustic lodge]

That's what I was leaning towards as well

i guess i could check WCL

Ah each one varies

I may go with depths. Can't hurt to pump a little more into ST

[vocal lantern]

not all bosses are pure ST anyways so might as well get radiant power tbh but its your call

[acoustic lodge]

yeah that's true too

ill do radiant

[delicate rover]

trickster pulls ahead when you have 2/4 piece so deathstalker till then?

[unborn cave]

whats can I adapt when pugging M+ as Sub ?
I'm thinkin' delaying Dance to have 2 casts during CDs can be a big loss depending on tank pulls
A lot of the time I just want to send it and just use 1 Dance during my CDs
thoughts?

[barren wren]

do you guys had a bug on rik reverb when pylons just don't work on intermission ?

we killed on hc just fine but on normal we just don't jump lol

[delicate rover]

Oh psa you can get Wax off the goblins in undermine

[silent ruin]

Radiant power or depths ? For raid n dungeons

[lucid jackal]

The entier specs damage profile is concentrated within your cds

If you dont have 2 dances in your CDs the spec sucks

Play sin instead

There shouldnt need to be any adaptation for pugs

Just send ur CDs on CD

Sometimes ur gonna send cds on a small pack thats just how it goes in pugs

[young mural]

@lucid jackal nice xal atath profile picture

[indigo steppe]

i feel like they nerfed keys by way more than 10%

they feel super easy now

[stiff stirrup]

I play the same way with sub as well. Just have double dance for cds and send them every 1:30 if pack dies so be it just pug life

[misty hedge]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[young mural]

nice @vale pine you added the targets thing

[willow pawn]

I managed to get 4pc, should i dump runed crests on it?

Or we saving these crests for soemthing else

[solid lotus]

What’s the threshold to BP instead of Evis? 5?6?8?

[willow pawn]

7+ i think for trickster

[solid lotus]

Tyvm

And when do I SS not BS

3?

Sorry, ty

[sudden breach]

how important is it to keep up find weakness on all targets in m+?

via storm

[paper helm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tepid trellis]

653 with 4set

[young mural]

what about some fresh air bud?

(I haven't left my house since patch dropped)

[tribal blade]

@tepid trellis ok did a little grinding with some peeps

this shit was actually pretty easy

[lilac stag]

When we grinding bub?

[tribal blade]

one day 😉

[crimson jasper]

hi i cant read, how good is 4 piece when should i change over
Edit 2/2 piece

[lilac stag]

2 day without fiber set me back a bit. Hoping to do some keys this weekend.

[lilac stag]

4p 13% better than no tier. You don’t run 2+2. Running your own sims would have answered this.

2+2 is an #assassination thing

[crimson jasper]

ok ty

[lucid jackal]

U really do love to see it

[languid mortar]

so prior to getting tier, are we still wanting to use secret tech as the 2nd finisher in dance?

[lucid jackal]

Tier changes nothing

[languid mortar]

so always 1st finisher?

[lucid jackal]

Generally first but in between cooldowns you can send your dance/sods with 10 or less seconds on sectec

If that makes sense

[green scarab]

Anyone know if karuichopper from liquid is streaming?

[tribal blade]

may i obtain that for my persons

i need it

we needs it

[young mural]

This new coup de grace looking and sounding great

[round latch]

irrelevant but ive waited 2 hours to watch u talk about Rogue on max's stream

needless to say that with this voice u are doing a deservice to urself to not work on a radio or something

the rizz is real

[misty estuary]

Is sub just cucked for bis gear if you arent raiding deep into mythic? Seems like almost all the versa gear is in the raid oddly enough

[jaunty heath]

Imexile on twitch

[bleak night]

karuichopper lmao

[young mural]

we be watching max

[tepid trellis]

nah exile is my boi, we be watching him

[young mural]

@tepid trellis's gear is better than exile's

[lucid jackal]

[tepid trellis]

sending hc crests soon

just need a trinket to drop from m+

[young mural]

nutty

[clear osprey]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[flint widget]

sheesh

[worldly violet]

guys , one question would it be okay to spend my 2 catalysts with 2 heroic parts to have 2-2?

or ai waiting the chest

[flint widget]

i would suggest you wait till vault, for example you calayst your legs, and you get tier legs from ur vault and nothing else

in that case it would be sadge

[lucid jackal]

Considering this has been my dungeon loot so far

no

[tepid trellis]

0 reason to go 2p2p

[lucid jackal]

40 dungeons done this szn

I have equipped 2 pieces in total

[worldly violet]

i have 0 pieces , 8/8 n 6/8hc + lfr = 0 tiers

[tepid trellis]

ive done 34 so far, but i didn't play a whole lot yesterday, had to dip midday

[lucid jackal]

Ive had covid + food poisoning

[tepid trellis]

skill issue, just dont go outside

[lucid jackal]

I DONT

[tepid trellis]

then u wont get it

[lucid jackal]

MY DAD DID

[tepid trellis]

tell him to stay outside

ong

[lucid jackal]

I DO

[young mural]

who else in here is a breaknecker?

certified drifter

[dry burrow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[uncut hinge]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[round latch]

[fickle jacinth]

been a minute sincew i did M+ as SUb. Do you spam BP still instead of EVicerate with multiple mobs?

[molten citrus]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[tepid trellis]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[rain ingot]

do we have any weakaura for tier set ?

[odd sandal]

Guys does talents change at all after getting new tier set?

[hexed dagger]

what's your move when you get fixated by adds in first boss darkflame cleft?

[tepid trellis]

evasion

[hardy gull]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[spiral pewter]

wtf buff rogue, we are sux

[rocky ocean]

no shaman 💀

[spark tusk]

From my understanding tracking it is not really essential and can only be minorly useful in between m+ packs to preserve a stack when a pull is about to end for going into the next pack.

I am not currently tracking it in my pack but I am considering just adding a minor indicator /counter somewhere.

[spice escarp]

I added a basic one, dunno where/if i want it yet

[midnight folio]

so if sec tec comes up like 25 seconds before flag + blades and im saving sod for the window, i just dont press sec tec right? kinda plagues me

[molten citrus]

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[void hound]

thats right

btw has anyone messed with 2 points finalty?
i find 3 charges of sod in m+ to be kinda useless

[tepid trellis]

its not only about the 3 charges tho, it also gives an higher amp onto SoD

[void hound]

of course

i imagine finality is better for trash and rotten for ST

[wild hornet]

sometimes i like using just a sod charge

in some garbage pulls

(pugs)

[ember hound]

!FUU

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

it was asked a lot, so i thought ill add it

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[buoyant wigeon]

!craft

[keen yacht]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warm geyser]

Hello here, I have question, what is the best race between Night Elf and Orc Mag'har ?

[clever delta]

Orc

[warm geyser]

okay ^^

for the racial ?

[clever delta]

Ye

[warm geyser]

okay, thanks you

[dark echo]

Is mag'har also best for Assa ? If you switch between specs ?

[swift crest]

nelf is best for all classes and specs except tank

[warm geyser]

No I play sub

[raven maple]

Hey guys I just started using Sub Rouge. Should Shadow Dance only be used along side Symbols of death?

[warm geyser]

Only sub XD

[swift crest]

let me pull out my nucleur powered super calculator compuer device and find the answer

[dark echo]

I am playing Orc right now and playing both specs

[tribal blade]

yes better for sin i imagine

because it's on a 2 min cd

so you have it for every deathmark

[warm geyser]

y

[molten citrus]

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[molten citrus]

!burst

[wicked jolt]

During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.

[swift crest]

https://tenor.com/view/calculation-math-hangover-allen-zach-galifianakis-gif-6219070

[raven maple]

Oh shit

[ornate heron]

this any good for sub?

it looks good on paper but why is it so mid?

[raven maple]

thats a command, thank you @.@

[frozen lily]

Probably because sub is s burst spec and that thing has random uptime

[keen yacht]

Sub does most of our damage within blades, which is why trinkets that ensure you have big stats for those 15s are so good. If you can't control the stat booste, ie taht trinket, its not great

[ornate heron]

thank you for the explantion guys ❤️

[keen yacht]

IF it lines up, hell yeah. If it doesn't - a different trinket that does provide that is way better

[gleaming imp]

Good morning guys

Out of curiosity, have you guys already spent your first craft, if so, what did you craft?
If not, why not?

[keen yacht]

I sent on a weapon w/ Focusing lens

Idk ab others tho

[raven maple]

"You do not want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal."

So Is a macro fine on the first charge of Shadow Dance and Symbols of Death? Just not on the second one?

[swift crest]

https://tenor.com/view/math-complicated-problem-solving-dreaming-gif-14024542

[gleaming imp]

Interesting, I personally haven’t crafted yet, was lucky by getting a hero track dagger from the nemesis delve drop, apparently it did better on DC sims than raid dagger lol

I’m thinking about doing boots or something depending on vault

[subtle jay]

why that trinket is A-tier? we get haste proc as lowest stat and it's weight is literally 14.1 so there's literally almost no point in that imo

[molten citrus]

it would be a 3rd keybind just for the opener, kinda pointless

[raven maple]

How do you personally have it binded?

[molten citrus]

just dance and symbols on their own binds, no macro

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[keen yacht]

You're going to end up wanting different boots though, I think you will eventually forgoe some primary stat for having embellishment on boots instead of something like cloak

[molten citrus]

can use this so you don't accidentally double press symbols as well

[raven maple]

I see

Thank you

[calm rose]

anyone have a weakaura that displays the number of mobs around you?

[molten citrus]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[calm rose]

you wouldnt beleive how many times i saw those packs

and never noticed the last one

fml

[molten citrus]

it just got added

[calm rose]

thanks

[molten citrus]

like yesterday or somethin

[calm rose]

ah ok

cheers

[frozen lily]

Nimble flurry and black powder have different range right?

[bleak night]

nimble is 8 yard, bp i think is 10 or 12

[open coral]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[frozen lily]

Looks like 10 on wowhead

[bleak night]

sounds right

[frozen lily]

So now i have to math it out if hitting 6 targets with BP is better than hitting 3 with nimble flurry for example

Surely LE has a weakaura for this already

[shy scarab]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[midnight granite]

yooo, im currently changing to sub rogue from assa and i wanted to ask, is it useful to make a macro with flagellation and shadowblades?

[ashen terrace]

no

[midnight granite]

oh okay, thanks

[solar charm]

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[spiral ingot]

What’s the benefit of this

[uncut juniper]

Is nimble damage enemy around you or around the target you’re hitting?

[hazy breach]

Around you

[void hound]

finality gaming

[pallid merlin]

Not needing a seperate backstab key

[short aurora]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[jolly pasture]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limber dirge]

at what point do I use my first vanish?

[wild hornet]

Hello, ive noticed something. During the opener why are we using rupture first before using any evis for snd

[tepid trellis]

cuz applying it the old way is neutral

so it was removed and just have this now

[wild hornet]

so bstab for danse macarbe is now viable to do?

[tepid trellis]

quicker into burst now

yes

unfortunately it is

[dry plank]

For every dance or first on burst window?

[tepid trellis]

every dance

you consume premed it with it

[wild hornet]

i thought we wouldnt be using any bstabs

for danse

[solar charm]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[fathom adder]

Still trying to get comfy with sub in m+. Do you try to fit 2 dances between your 1:30 cd window as well in m+ situations? (2 big -> 2 -> 2 big - 1 repeat like wowhead guide regarding st?)

[tepid trellis]

generally yes

some downtime might fuck with it

[golden totem]

you adapt to pulls and cooldown aligning but yea usually

[fallen mortar]

That's an old macro

[fathom adder]

thank you

[frozen lily]

The bonus eviscerate shadow damage to fw targets doesn’t flurry?

[fathom adder]

hard to get the same overall as assa in 7 keys right now, will need to practice more. Dmg outside of dance feels so weird in comparison to df s1 and 2

[smoky vault]

Sometimes just using cold + secTec with dance/sod enough if you're not sure about timing (low keys). High keys different cause CD every 1/2 packs

[tepid trellis]

from the main target iirc it does

[smoky vault]

Assa still best AoE anyway look at archon

Where sub shines is burst boss

[frozen lily]

Hmm can’t make the math add up for bp at 7+ targets then

But it lines up nicely if it doesn’t flurry

Unless i suck at math, which is quite possible

[tepid trellis]

bp is like 80% of an evis or smth like that

[frozen lily]

Evis is 28% before that 50% bonus

Bp is 19%

Idk, i should just look at some logs

[wicked solar]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[fathom adder]

@smoky vault i can trust archon?

ty

[wild hornet]

so at the end of the day the builder before sectec will always be a bstab?

[fathom adder]

so you trade a little bit overall for more valuable st + burst i guess (?)

[hazy breach]

It does but since nimble is physical it gets reduced by armor

[frozen lily]

Right i forgot to account for armor

Ty

[hazy breach]

Also shadowed finisher is 30% is premitigated damage

Just to make things more confusing

[tepid trellis]

maff

[tribal blade]

just make all sub rogue finishers shadow damage and remove shadowed finishers

[hazy breach]

Amen brother

[tribal blade]

went on a tear today

just slamming keys back to back to back with a set group

this is the most fun i've had playing sub in years

i'm having such a blast

[wild hornet]

just make all sub spells do shadow damage

including feint

[tribal blade]

true shadowstrike could do shadowstrike damage again

[wild hornet]

nah actually make that physical

[tepid trellis]

it once did

[tribal blade]

bring it back 😦

[wild hornet]

imagine naming a spell after 2 schools

just for it to do 1

[sacred magnet]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[solar charm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[spiral ingot]

i meant like whats the benefit of backstabbing over shadowstrike

[tepid trellis]

danse stack

so it ends up being like 0.3% dmg increase

[spiral ingot]

ahh ok

[sullen flare]

!sims

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[tribal blade]

another day of forgetting to do backstab in dance tech

[clever delta]

Is it for both st and aoe

[sullen flare]

homies what are we supposed to send the first spark on ?

[tribal blade]

sent mine on dagger, biggest power spike of the season

[smoky vault]

And rename the spec "Shadow" 😄

[heavy goblet]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[smoky vault]

Rework 11.2 : "poison master", "ranger" (trap and bow... Oh wait remove hunters theb), "shadow master".
ARPG here we go

[dry plank]

On wowhead opener and optimization are different that confuses

[heavy goblet]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[worn cape]

How to survive baron braunpyke's altar dot? All I can think of is Crimson Vial and maybe cloak.

[wraith gust]

what altar dot? you mean the dot from soaking?

[worn cape]

Yeah

[wraith gust]

spec elusiveness

[frozen lily]

Elusiveness later once we learn the dungeons well enough

I for sure do still get better value from cheat

[worn cape]

I'll swap to elusiveness for this dungeon already then and keep cheat death for a little longer.

[graceful mural]

please how macros works - lets say shadow blades+pvp trinket.
it will be like this - and just once push the keybind?
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast xy(name of trinket)

[tribal blade]

yes it will perform all the abilities in the macro at once

[tribal blade]

we legit just had our tank soaking most of em on a 10

and then if you have cloak up you can use it to solo soak a bunch

[mighty citrus]

team why doesnt it put together 2 x 2 set

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9NtAJ634DmtHCvurc1b4dX

[brisk onyx]

cuz 2+2 is suck

[alpine wraith]

not really just our last 4p is quite decent

sadly a lot of power also comes from new 4p

[tribal blade]

2pc by itself is cringe because no dance protection

just perma drops all the time

press coup and say goodbye to all your stacks

[alpine wraith]

or play around it then begin dance at like 5 stacvks

first sec tech drops all of them

EYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[hollow spear]

I could swear the sim hasn't proposed double on-use before

Did something change?

[alpine wraith]

double on use can be decent

if your other trink sucks enough

[tribal blade]

oh is kush doing RWF as dh

when sub rogue is so good right now

damn

[alpine wraith]

that is the woe of rogue sometimes

even if 1 spec is decently good other classes exist

well also after blizz nerfed our good value in raid being burst we still do quite decent

but like 20 to 30% less than what was though on patch beginning

[lilac stag]

Havoc is better. Likely sims higher as well. Just numbers.

[alpine wraith]

before the 3 moving around power and things

so now we are back once again to "decently" high burst

but nothing crazy enough to shift things around

[lilac stag]

echo gonna spreadsheet game anyways

I’m curious what the ST sim difference is between him on havoc and perfecto as sub/assa

[alpine wraith]

at least we have our trusty karuichopper in liquid

if the havoc has the cool shit should be around 200k to 150k ish at most i think?

[lilac stag]

and assuming they can play them equally that’s a lot At this point in tuning

[alpine wraith]

yep unluck

i mean we already had the sylvanas situation

rogue was "decent"

[daring raptor]

Does anyone have the right bus list with sim?

[alpine wraith]

but then warrior was decent and raid cd

[lilac stag]

I think the dmg output it too high to drop atrophic

[daring raptor]

Max Roll.gg and wow head are not the same list

[lilac stag]

so you’re brining one

[alpine wraith]

they can run 1 rogue eventually i think

but maybe on dagger bosses

so loot is not wasted

kekw

then last 3 because of atro

[lilac stag]

it’s interesting seeing the variance in numbers on the first boss

[daring raptor]

Are we really going for flickering glowtorc for neck? And not vers mastery neck?

[lilac stag]

of logs that have been posted

[alpine wraith]

you can craft neck

the diff is not big

[daring raptor]

But what is the bis list

Different sites list different bus lists…

[alpine wraith]

oh boi

[lilac stag]

Useless bullshit.

[alpine wraith]

as long as item has no haste and high ilvl

it is equipable

dont worry about bis lists

for some months

[daring raptor]

Kinda need bust list for priority for guild runs

[lilac stag]

You don’t

[alpine wraith]

then leave that neck to others

you can just craft yours

[daring raptor]

And myth proc

[swift crest]

we need a master of physics to answer some of these questions

[lilac stag]

Just droptimizer the raid

List what the upgrade amount it

[daring raptor]

That is true

[alpine wraith]

ideally rogue in raid only has 2 items jastor ring and house of cards everything else can be crafted or is decent

[lilac stag]

then droptimizer crafted

[alpine wraith]

you can also soak the vers mastery leather

[lilac stag]

And decide how greedy you want to be

[daring raptor]

Think I will just craft dagger tho

Have the crests

[alpine wraith]

well of course you craft dagger

[lilac stag]

I mean you’re silly not to

[alpine wraith]

it is like 120k dps

some people

[lilac stag]

MH Wdps is far and away bis

compared to other crafts

[daring raptor]

Yeah

[alpine wraith]

and even if you drop a mythic dagger in raid

you need crests to upgrade it

[daring raptor]

No idea what to use the free hero crest for tho

[alpine wraith]

so same shit or even worse

the free one you wont use likely

[lilac stag]

Worry about that when you have a second spark

[alpine wraith]

if you lready have for dagger

because by the time we have second spark a champion/hero upgraded item

is just better

[lilac stag]

crafts aren’t unlimited

At this point

[alpine wraith]

embellish are omega ass this tier

they are like 10 ilvl

effective

that is why if you craft wep you can just run blessed grip or lens and the other s1 piece with patch just change it

for a hero item

[cold jungle]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[hazy breach]

That top one is not an on-use

Or do you just mean priory as on offtrinket i guess

[hollow spear]

I know

But I put it as a reference

[hazy breach]

But ye all trinkets just suck ass this expansion

[hollow spear]

i.e. a passive trinket seems to sim on par with double on-use

crazy

[hazy breach]

Feint

[worn cape]

I seem to to die to the dot more than the aoe effect tbh

[hazy breach]

yes im referring to the dot

Feint work on spells coded as aoe, it has nothing to do wether they are a dot or not

It works on the dot

[civic forge]

backstab premed isn't in the APL yet right?

[heavy goblet]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[vale pine]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[muted oriole]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[civic forge]

with backstab dance does that mean we always want to start dance at 0cp to consume premed with backstab every time?

[tribal blade]

ideally 0 yeah but if you have a few CPs it's not the end of the world

[lilac stag]

the cycle of sub. Stab in dance. Don’t stab in dance. Stab in dance.

[leaden prairie]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

either on low combo points or on values you can finish with

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[vale pine]

you can use this macro if you want

[leaden prairie]

do you bs

in aoe

fuu

[alpine wraith]

it is actually stronger in aoe if you are in a first dance

[leaden prairie]

no way man

do you do it in any dance or just the big cds

and do you do it in the second dance aswell

in blades

[alpine wraith]

more globals with extra damage

does more dmg

riddle me

second dance depends

[civic forge]

ah so if you're full CP is it better to just dance finisher? or spend, dance backstab finisher?

[alpine wraith]

sometimes you begin dance with full cp so you evis and maybe proc a shadowcraft and sec tech instantly other times you get a builder in between so yea you would stab

sub is kinda rng for second dance

but as you use SoD later anyway you do stab

[vale pine]

there is nothing wrong with dancing with full cp

[alpine wraith]

right now dropping rotten actually makes things easier

[civic forge]

kk so the extra danse stack isn't that important that you spend before dancing

[alpine wraith]

but idk if you can do that pre new 4 set havent simmed things yet

[tribal blade]

seems like it's overall quite a small optimization

[alpine wraith]

it always is

but you know what is not a small one

using sod for charger in ToP while moving around!

[tribal blade]

haha trueee i noticed that doing keys today

[alpine wraith]

you can begin last boss with 4 chargers a lot of the time and still get 4 in cds on pull more

[tribal blade]

some keys have considerable downtime

[tribal blade]

it depends how your group does ToP

if you leave up the 3 pack to do before last boss then i think you don't want to send all 3 symbols charges

[alpine wraith]

yea that is a thaing

[tribal blade]

we're doing the classic routing in ToP right now

[alpine wraith]

but it is easier to get all % just doing bigger pull on the necro side

[tribal blade]

pulling rager into 1st boss

and shrouding 1st 3 pack

[tribal blade]

true true

[alpine wraith]

we are so good vs the skele mages

6 sec cheapshot

8 sec kidney

[tribal blade]

6 sec cheapshot is actually kinda crazy

[sacred magnet]

if you were to create a rogue now would you choose dwarf or maghar for the most optimized?

[alpine wraith]

dwarf

[tribal blade]

maghar is overall better for damage

dwarf is overall better for living

in keys

[alpine wraith]

even on raid it can cleanse some nifty things

[tribal blade]

stoneform is kinda cracked this season

i'm already getting a lot of mileage out of it

very tempted to go maghar though

because it looks cooler

[dry plank]

Mechagnomes power

[alpine wraith]

be human and get that free extra mastery believe

[tribal blade]

LET US CHOOSE RACES BASED ON APPEARANCE BLIZZ

/wrists

[alpine wraith]

we will get to 25k mastery for sure

and just crit every evis and sec tech

[lilac stag]

The only downfall is most of the mogs look like ass if you don’t like huge shoulders

[tribal blade]

i actually love the maghar model 😉

[dry plank]

How it is different from orc?

[lilac stag]

It’s not. Both suck for shoulders and moment in stealth imo

less customization on maghar

[oak grotto]

Do we use Rupture in more Cleave/AoE?

[lilac stag]

It’s like VE not having nearly the number of options as BE. Orc has a lot more to mess with.

[tribal blade]

yes so long as targets live 12 secs or longer

exact time might have changed, but it's roughly that

[oak grotto]

How many targets until we dont apply rupture?

[lilac stag]

When cds are ready

Nothing to do with targets

[hollow spear]

can we vanish the Leaping Sparks in floodgate?

[alpine wraith]

dont do that

as all the shit that happens it can go on tank

[mint swift]

Well its now their problem so whatever

Jk

[manic island]

do we break s1 4p for s2 2p?

[valid vault]

where do we get the vers mastery feet from?

[hazy breach]

Crafted or boe

[valid vault]

thats unfortunate

[hazy breach]

But like, it doesnt matter much

Just get something else meanwhile

Its fine

[valid vault]

yeah i just thought it might be cata again

which would still be a lategame thing

[hazy breach]

The difference between vers/mastery and crit/mastery is very very very negligible

Stat differences are vastly overrated

[smoky salmon]

[valid vault]

yeah its just nice to have

angels will be pleased when i sign up

[swift crest]

i need to speak to an astro physicists regarding the use of symbols of dance

[oak grotto]

Would it be viable to run Tea instead of Supercharger?

Or well maybe not viable, but would it be just straight dogshit or can it be playable with Tea instead

[hazy breach]

Absolute dogshit

If anything you would swap cb

[severe vapor]

Yeah the leather loot in m+ is horrifically itemised

Some off pieces are raid or craft or cya

[hazy breach]

But even that is not great and doesnt really do much at all. Im assuming you think that tea is gonna help you feel less energy starved, which is not really the case

As the by far best usecase of tea is to macro it to shadowdance

[oak grotto]

Both yes and no, I mainly thought that the mastery buff could be nice

20% and then you combo it with CDs and just nuke was my thought

[iron hare]

https://gyazo.com/5d58aae7ceb02990626eb695c79a1b06
which loadout would you recommend for m+ right now? (not relying on sims)

peep the huge 619s lmao was really unlucky last season

[rotund depot]

just starting playing sub, am i ever using symbols not with shadow dance?

[alpine wraith]

yea sometimes

[void hound]

you can

[hazy breach]

Tea is not 20% more damage though, its 20% additional mastery. And since with flagellation up you would already have roughly 150% mastery.
So then tea only increases your finisher damage by roughly 8% (2.7 instead of 2.5 modifier)

Whereas supercharger is +43% on two finishers always

[hoary sun]

Do we storm on aoe whitout rotten in dance as second builder too?

[lilac stag]

proc tea out of cds.

just don’t

Ever

[steep raven]

I would suggest pvp trinket as an active one, easy to get and if you don't have big transmitter loses only to house of cards

[iron hare]

havent seen this one yet, will have a look ty

[steep raven]

Idk why it's not in any guide/sim, it's really good

[iron hare]

really wanna get rid off transmitter already

[alpine wraith]

it is quite decent as a second trinket too for m+

but nothing crazy power lvl of trinkets overall is quite low

you can see it on they can nerf transmitter by 15%

[iron hare]

currently using thugs but I was thinking about replacing with remnant

[alpine wraith]

and it is still so good

[clever delta]

Step sis I'm still stuck with 2 season 1 trinkets

[alpine wraith]

yea remnant is quite decent for m+ but same as thug

it is just rng

[placid crown]

Hello guys. I feel like 4p last season was better than 4p this season. Tell me i'm wrong

[iron hare]

fits this seasons theme I guess Smoge

[alpine wraith]

you mean the set that got nerfed by 66%

then another 33%

[clever delta]

Gain of current season tier set is so small so I would agree

[alpine wraith]

why would you think it would be not as good !

[hazy breach]

Numerically it is better

But all sets this expansion have a lower power budget than previous expansions so

[upper narwhal]

the 4p is really good, it's the 2p that sucks

[clever delta]

Still 4p on heroic track can't beat upgrade of dagger

That's 4 items vs 1

[placid crown]

Do you check the number of stacks before really attacking ? Or you go just normal as if it wasnt here ?

[hollow spear]

My recent M+ drop would like to have a word with you

[clever delta]

You don't want to lose stacks before cds

[vale pine]

sub set is still rly good, just need the 4p

[upper narwhal]

we get a catalyst every week and a spark every 2 weeks right?

[hazy breach]

Well even so the difference between that and a good neck is smaller than people think

[upper narwhal]

4p on reset should be easy

[clever delta]

There are couple that are 10% better really good

And not one

[hollow spear]

Yeah true, but it's still kinda the worst of the worst options 😄

[oblique grove]

Sometimes when I close my eyes I can hear the shadow dance sequence

[iron hare]

fuu I dont see a recommendation on ascension for m+, does it make a differance if I have lens or asc?

[placid crown]

an other thing to track.. x(

[alpine wraith]

embellish are whatever

blessed grip and dusk are a bit better on m+

but who cares

[iron hare]

ok ty

[alpine wraith]

ascencion is decent lens is also

[iron hare]

gonna wait for vault till I craft

[alpine wraith]

there is no reason not to craft dagger

[clever delta]

Sub. Will fall off on later bosses already can feel it

[alpine wraith]

even if you get a vault dagger you are using gilded on it

yea sub is kinda mid on higher gear but we already knew

at least we still have somewhat decent burst

[upper narwhal]

I see Assa being played on One Armed Bandit and Mugzee 100%

[clever delta]

Sub is heroic week hero

[placid cove]

Hi, I noticed the opener changed in wowhead guide. Quick sim still shows the old way with Vanish etc. , Is wowhead opener the way to go ?

[alpine wraith]

you mean atro is played in one armed bandit and mug zee

warrior does like 600k more dps there

[upper narwhal]

Gally seems like a good Sub fight for bombing the ads but depends what mythic looks like

[spice escarp]

Every 2 weeks, theres an in game timer at the catalyst

[upper narwhal]

ah tyty

[alpine wraith]

you could play outlaw and no one woudl care about the dps diff

[upper narwhal]

ofc they will stack as many arms as they can for those fights, but if they use a rogue assa will just be better

[clever delta]

Got outlaw weapon in raid so I may aswell

[alpine wraith]

better at dying to raid dmg maybe yea

the diff between rogue specs is so low even in execute assa needs to get at least 2 cast of cds to be decent

if sub gets 2 and assa gets 1 last phase dmg is better too

it is not as easy as

OH LAST PHASE IMPORTANT

meanwhile execute execute execute mortal strike

overpower overpower execute mortal strike

[oblique grove]

Ok but do they get the fat coup de grace sound

Didn't think so

[clever delta]

Good old tindral time when more rogues than one was played

[alpine wraith]

they also dont delete parry!

[clever delta]

Now even kush playing dh and liquid don't even have second rogue

[alpine wraith]

makes sense after nerfs we are just worse warrior or monk

and dh does a lot of dmg too

and i dont mean our burst is not good just

it is not as spectacular or needed

[oblique grove]

They need someone to give the Agi daggers to

I love that role

[alpine wraith]

and the junk magnet

like i got

it is decent on sub and quite bad for everyone else

[oblique grove]

The only trinket we got on the first raid clear was the keys from the first boss

I have heroic transmitter and mythic mandate so

[clever delta]

Magnet drop

But was like dps loss for me

Compared to my s1 teinkets

[alpine wraith]

apl for it is a bit krangled

it does not get used correctly

but it is also nothing crazy

does like 1.x% of dmg

a bit more of some mobs are around

[short radish]

feels kinda safe to send insta weap craft right?

even if get a myth track dagger from vault next week

dagger in OH still used

[alpine wraith]

yea

send wep

[jade urchin]

i love sub so much and i pray i get fucking house of cards tomorrow

cause i cant take this anymore

[alpine wraith]

if you do pvp you can get the pvp trink

also

[jade urchin]

whats the pvp trinket name?

[alpine wraith]

go back some messages

[oblique grove]

how much pvp

[alpine wraith]

badge of ferocity

[oblique grove]

I did 9 hours of islands for the essences

[jade urchin]

simming so hard rn

[oblique grove]

I'm strong enough to do that again

Is heroic transmitter a "big" one or is that only mythic

[jade urchin]

transmitter in general

[alpine wraith]

mythic is the only one that stays until mythic house of cards

but still the next one is hc vs hc house of cards

[oblique grove]

So you're saying a 626 transmitter only loses to the house yea?

Hero track

[jade urchin]

fully upgraded nhc house wins too

but only slightly

[oblique grove]

Guess you could say

The house always wins

[cinder axle]

In big AEO Pulls do I use Shuriken storm in my Dance window or do I always use Shadowstrike regardless of mob count?

[steep raven]

658 pvp, 626 transmitter, 665 house of cards (this is on my character, just an example)

[vocal narwhal]

what sim is this? or how can i do it?

[jade urchin]

once at 7 targets for danse macabre stack

[steep raven]

wdym, just raidbots

[jade urchin]

else shadowstrike

[vocal narwhal]

oh sry i have never seen this. Do i download something?

[jade urchin]

wait are we back to using backstab for danse macabre?

[cinder axle]

Deals more dmg or is there another reason?

[steep raven]

Google raidbots

[jade urchin]

shuriken storm really weak

[vocal narwhal]

oki thanks

[jade urchin]

standard m+ build entire dungeon

paints the picture i think

[hazy breach]

Thats also not including the flurries from strike

[sonic hamlet]

does mastery drop off at all? currently at 81%

[alpine wraith]

it is better to sim the gear than try to get some specific stats

and as always dont copy me

i just like mastery

[sonic hamlet]

[candid raven]

I just saw that the raid trash drops vers/mastery boots with high vers. I wonder why they aren't bis. Wouldn't that allow us to replace the crit/vers neck?

[frigid prawn]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[alpine wraith]

you dont just replace something you do combinations

[plush roost]

We like a lil crit

[cinder axle]

In big AOE is it worth to use the second finisher after Tech with BP even if we got Coupe? So i supercharge Powder and coupe after

[alpine wraith]

and if that neck sims better it is for a reason

[alpine wraith]

you use coup as soon as possible unless sec tech is off cd

to get 5 stacks of flawless

[candid raven]

I was mainly wondering if the trash loot was even considered. But if it was and sims worse, that's fine. Was just asking.

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter

[alpine wraith]

ye it is just combinations

also they are quite close anyway

[cinder axle]

So coup always after tech if i have it rdy? Even if its like 30 mobs and i could use the second charge for powder?

[plush roost]

The boe boots will be useful for a non insignificant portion of the patch anyway, just sim it

[hazy breach]

Coup if its ready

[alpine wraith]

yea

good thing about boe boots is you can buy them with avo or leech