#subtlety

1 messages · Page 204 of 1

tepid trellis
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radiant

ornate heron
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i know its depths for raid but is it same for m+?

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tyty

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!fuu

wicked joltBOT
naive cedar
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Ofcourse not, but 600 k simmed dps gap seems kinda huge. Especially when sub actually kinda needs uptime aswell

tepid trellis
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so does the other classes

hollow spear
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Just wait and see, there's no point complaining about bis gear sims

jolly pasture
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Warrior simming top snd being top in raid tho

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Alligned

hollow spear
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Especially with balancing happening way before bis gear will ever be acquired

naive cedar
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I guess my spot is locked in being the only rogue and all anyway 🥲

hollow spear
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Sub is popping off in heroic

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Have to see for mythic

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But most people here won't have progressed far by the point they throw out buffs and nerfs

naive cedar
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Ye pre-tier looking strong. Also cd timings feel good to me at least

hollow spear
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Our tier isn't even superbad

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Kinda average according to the usual comparison table

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Just bad compared to where it was before getting clapped haha

vale pine
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hello darkness my old friend,
i've come to talk with you again

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subtlety has a lot of burst which can help with bosses with downtime, there is a lot of adds too. Patchwerk is just not good to evaluate a raid

wild hornet
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Blue parses purple ilvl parses

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Sweet jesus

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Im doing worse that i thought i would

hollow spear
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Welcome to sub rogue

wild hornet
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Yes thank you i feel welcomed

manic ivy
wild hornet
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Especially when dropping from pink ret parses

hollow spear
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Small playerbase with a relatively larger amount of people who know what they're doing

wild hornet
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To mediocre sub parses

wild hornet
hollow spear
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It's usually harder to parse when playing a niche spec

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Way easier to parse on sin

wild hornet
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Id rather peel off my skin than play sin

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One of the most unfun specs ive played

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Also - when i get my new cd set after downtime do i try and build with bstab till full copo before sending cds or should i start using cds and then build with one/two sstrikes

obtuse shard
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i'm worried that blizzard might nerf sub after heroic week performance, i gapped my guild so hard in raid last night lol

keen dome
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I doubt they will but that's sub life.

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Also first week, imo, is getting good kills.

vale pine
keen dome
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Esp when learning new raid fights. First kills are always chaotic and messy for most groups.

wild hornet
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Always feels horrible when the boss dies right before the sectec cast

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Cause suddenly kill time went from 30 to 15 sec

keen dome
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My normal parses from yesterday are so bad because pugs are a nightmare, but I was still consistently close to top damage. It's very funny when you look at the log after. And you get like, a 40 parse. And then the guy doing 300k less than you gets a 70.

chrome palm
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Feels like every raid fight is don’t dance when there’s no adds so far

keen dome
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My ret buddy beating me by around 150k and he gets a 96, I get a 52 lmao

vale pine
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Whats the fight called with the pylons that blow up in the intermission

keen dome
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Rik Reverb

wild hornet
vale pine
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thanks

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rik will be fun once we unlock the 4 set

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and spam detection during the intermission

keen dome
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Oooh, yeah

chrome palm
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Detection works?

vale pine
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(detection should generate tier set stacks during combat)

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(unless blizz hotfixed that)

chrome palm
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Can we pre pull detection spam?

wild hornet
vale pine
wild hornet
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Sinking from 2nd spot down right below the assa

keen dome
vale pine
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but you can do the symbols pre pull stuff

chrome palm
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Detection spam definitely fits the subtlety class fantasy imo

wild hornet
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Then i have to explain why im not doing as good as on ret

slender abyss
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yo are we going for Authority of the Depths or radiant power?

keen dome
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my Rik kill on N is funny. I ended up at like 700k DPS because nobody else was clicking the amps. So I was madly running around clicking them lmao

wild hornet
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Kekw

vale pine
rocky ocean
vale pine
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we only cleared normal yesterday

wild hornet
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I always thought its harder to parse on more popular specs

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Since ur competing with like idk

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Thousands

keen dome
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How did you find it, Fuu? It felt more difficult than Nerubar, right?

vale pine
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but, so... how do i word it without sounding negative

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the raid kind of has not a raid vibe for me

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the bosses are good especially visual in clarity

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but the area is very same-ish and every boss is some form of robot

stone robin
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i dont like vexie and stix they just feel off

wild hornet
sudden breach
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What is the logic behind
Dance + Symbols - > Shadowstrike - > Shadowblades? (w/ rotten)

Shouldn't shadowstrike be used with shadowblades for extra 20% modifier with the rotten buff?
or is saving 1 global for shadowblades due to premeditation more worth?

wild hornet
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Cause of deadlines

keen dome
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I like Vexie because she kills half the raid on entering.

slender abyss
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yo are we going for Authority of the Depths or radiant power?

wild hornet
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Especially the ones eating feast

keen dome
vale pine
keen dome
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I think it's a good use of assets, imo. Re-using the zone, esp with the narrative setting, is cool.

vale pine
wild hornet
stone robin
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does sub loose dmg when switching targets? like swapping from vexie to the bikers?

vale pine
lucid jackal
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Why would u switch to bikers

keen dome
rocky ocean
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goofy guilds often require you to hardswitch to stuff

stone robin
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we played it weird yesterday and the bikers where all over the place

wild hornet
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And then see u did mostly boss dmg

stone robin
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so target switching is not a hard loss, but it would be better to just cleave

lucid jackal
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correct

rocky ocean
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well new target probably doesnt have fazed and expose

keen dome
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Ideally you just want people to stack so bikes come to you and you blow them up next to boss anyway, right>?

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So it should just 'happen'

wild hornet
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They dont

stone robin
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yeah that would be the best

keen dome
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The 'ol people in narnia?

stone robin
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the thing is nobody really cares about normal and early hc anyways so it was a little goofy yesterday XD

keen dome
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Yeah...

wild hornet
keen dome
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Mecha Dinosaur versus Cyber Gorilla is a funny boss, though. Really lovely big dinosaur animations

wild hornet
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Its all fun and games until you shadowstep into the beam

keen dome
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Hey, you know what owns?

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Shadowstep on Gallywix.

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"Oh shit let me ust get ba- oh I'm down the hole"

crystal kraken
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skill issue

stone robin
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Bro shadowstepping on gally is just Oooof

keen dome
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It's a real skill to shadowstep into a hole, yeah.

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I'm very good at it. One of the best, actually.

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I assume it's because the boss is set to be in the centre, or the edge. And then in P3 it gets fucking weird and they didn't update what you are actually stepping too?

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Because I noticed it was always either the middle, or the edge of the arena where he is in P2.

stone robin
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Its so weird

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Blizzard spaghetti code

wild hornet
west tide
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aww man 2p/2p is a downgrade for me haha

wild hornet
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Cause i did vanish sstrike and didnt fall

west tide
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is m +6 hero track?

keen dome
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But if you aren't expecting it, and moving at the same time?

stone robin
keen dome
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You'll easily yolo yourself down the hole.

wild hornet
keen dome
wild hornet
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Cant wait to farm green logs

tribal blade
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just crafted 675 dagger

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boom

keen dome
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Hell ya

slender abyss
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the ring citrine's are same for st and dungeon slice right? thunderlord / fathomdweller / legendary for ST?

keen dome
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How'd 7's feel, Prophet?

tribal blade
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not too bad!

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i'm fucking obliterating bosses

keen dome
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I did a +3 last night and it was very damage spongey but didn't feel bad. And bosses melted, yeah

tribal blade
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i'm legit doing like over a mil more than other dps on bosses depnding on the encounter

keen dome
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Yeah same, haha

tribal blade
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and some dungeons i've been outdpsing people with more gear than me

keen dome
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Final boss of Rookery I think I hit close to 4m burst and everyone else at 1.5 / 2

tribal blade
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so i'm very excited to see my dps after crafting dagger

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i just did floodgate for the first time

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and it was an 8 lol

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the elemental boss was fucking crazy hard

keen dome
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First rookery clear, though. coup_de_grace

image.png
tribal blade
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nice!

keen dome
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My dagger drought has ended.

tribal blade
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alright i've been playing all day, time to afk and chill ❤️

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have fun dude

keen dome
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Hell yeah, have a good evening

short radish
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Just full send

keen dome
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I'm really not smart enough to figure that out but I sent mine the first burn phase, sat on them on pull, and we got it down to like, 42% on the first blast.

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Because he fills the room up with goop, I guess it does make sense to get him as low as possible ASAP?

short radish
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I didn't realise there was a burn phase so I just full sent on pull

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But I just held cooldowns enough for the 2nd

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Tbh I think with lust its a hold angle

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But I'm not a professional m+ Andy so don't take my word for it

tepid trellis
stone robin
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how is skardyns grace on sub rogue? i got a transmitter but i really really struggle to do the mini game

tepid trellis
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bad

stone robin
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rip

silent ruin
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638 Transmitter is close to bis

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639*

stone robin
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i have a mythic transmitter with leech , but honestly im scared to use it i always fuck it up

silent ruin
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But ungettable because even you farm mythic kyveza you can't upgrade it

stone robin
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i hate this trinket so much XD

silent ruin
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Everyone hates it, it is what it is

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Try finding ball under broodtwister with all goop n adds

stone robin
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its pain

tribal blade
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but i was playing it safe

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but seems like for sure you can send 1 dance+symbols on pull to help burn the shield on these lower keys

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and then obv once the key level is high enough you send stuff on pull

smoky vault
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Feel like everyone were "this is range tiers" where I see again melee ST tiers. Except M+ probably. Allaiatola were like "raid isn't melee friendly", I notice that we rock DPS because lot of mono actually and lot of move involved for ranged (compensating lower sims)

tribal blade
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actually i dunno, considering how much damage you do on the burn

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might just let other people break the shield for you

smoky vault
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We'll see mythic raid but generally it implies even more move for ranged so ...

short radish
vale pine
short radish
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You can also kinda stagger shield break as well

tribal blade
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yeah depends if you can delay the shield break

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if it's possible to delay and not have people die it would 100% be worth

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sub rogue right now is nuclear ST damage in keys

stone robin
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i have a question, between our big cd's how many dance+symbols should i get?

keen dome
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The racoon is strong.

smoky vault
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The only question is , 4p assa better now, + design philosophy, will blizzard make assa the go to with high end gear again

keen dome
tribal blade
vale pine
smoky vault
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Yeah it goes smooth

vale pine
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but a sin buff or sub nerf could def. quickly change the status quo

paper iron
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Sub becomes to suck mostly if u lose uptime/cdr and presse feint every 20s. Aka kyveza progress Was, or at least Felt, kinda bad

smoky vault
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Feint is off cd now shouldnt play a role ?

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Oh " felt" OK

paper iron
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it s also energy it s kinda, u re already afk outside of cds, if u start to press feint 1/2 gcd it just feels bad x)

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Yersteday i had a fun pull on the boss that transform u into a ball. I pressed flag at 1.40, i got morphed at 1.45

short radish
paper iron
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but yea u lose a cd but

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u also do a 170m boom kekman

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that s all day worth it

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on our normal kill our hpriest was 2nd or 3rd dps on details because he got targetted twice x)

chrome palm
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Is there an easy way to tell how much combined damage a single secret technique did in wcl

tribal blade
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2nd boss in rookery you legit need to do 1 less dance between cd sets

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because of how much uptime you lose

paper iron
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oh yea

vestal escarp
paper iron
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this dungeon is great

tribal blade
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unless i'm missing a trick for uptime there

paper iron
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but not trashes after 1st boss and 2nd boss

vestal escarp
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Pirate problems

tribal blade
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other than that uptime isn't too bad

paper iron
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i feel like u can greed and get dragged in as long as you shadowstep out before it explodes

void ocean
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so what do you guys say for talents for N/HC raid, can we do the entire raid in st build?

paper iron
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but that might be impossible higher keys

tribal blade
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yeah it ticks pretty hard

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it'll def become impossible in higher keys

paper iron
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dont really need more aoe than baseline trickster and sectech

void ocean
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i havent seen some huge add spikes, i guess nothing that flurry wont cover

paper iron
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and anyway padding is spreazd all arround the map

paper iron
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darkflame?

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The dude with his candle

tribal blade
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oh i haven't done darkflame cleft yet haha

paper iron
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Already he s doing random melees as soon as the tank move 1 milimiter

tribal blade
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my guild is just farming 7s atm

paper iron
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secondly if u dont have 3 ranges

tribal blade
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and nobody wants to go there

void ocean
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im only thinking going TFD on a first few normal bosses

paper iron
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u will spend 45s every minute out of melee range

chrome palm
tribal blade
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i hear horror stories about that place yeah

paper iron
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requieres 3 casters

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oh and last boss u know u have this minigame where u can damage it before the encounter and get it to like 82 84% hp

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if u reset it once

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it goes back to 90 or 95%

tribal blade
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oh eyah i heard

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toxic

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does it still make you redo the minigame if you wipe?

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i know it did on ptr

paper iron
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maybe u can

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but we didnt

tribal blade
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ok cool

paper iron
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we were dumbies

molten citrus
paper iron
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just hitting and praying

tribal blade
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because it would send you back to throw the dynamite at the boss again if you wiped

chrome palm
molten citrus
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you can kinda drag on the timeline and single out the spell

shell delta
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Hey. Is it known bug for Coup de grace, when it has 4 stacks and wont proc. Doesnt even change icon of eviscerate, just puts a glow on Evis.

tribal blade
void ocean
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i did ToP yesterday and the 2nd boss wasnt there for a while when we arrived 😄 (the one that takes ur soul out)

tribal blade
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reload won't fix it

shell delta
tribal blade
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it doesn't happen too often though

shell delta
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How about char stuck on Stix boss

tribal blade
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i haven't heard of that one

shell delta
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I got some ability and char started tripping into trash forward and back multiple times. Lik running to the wall but with bounces back when hitting the trash.

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after i used shadowstep to get out of whatever it is

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i just got stuck in place

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All i could to move was SS

chrome palm
tribal blade
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interesting

shell delta
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yup

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alt f4 helped

west tide
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!fuu

wicked joltBOT
fallen fable
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hey do we know what sub/assa craft week 1 ?

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dagger .

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?

tribal blade
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considering what's going on with raid/keys atm i sent dagger

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because the last few bosses on heroic are hard af

alpine wraith
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yea last 3 are rough we are going m+ hunting until sunday

hexed dagger
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do we not take old + new 2set?

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wait for new 4set?

jaunty heath
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i wanna craft 2set so bad lol buyt havnt done herioc yet

lilac stag
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@tribal blade let me know if you want to do keys this weekend. I’ll set aside some time.

hexed dagger
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got mugzee down to 4%

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shouldve had it

vale pine
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you can see it on the sheet

image.png
hexed dagger
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ah I see, ty

vale pine
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old 2p + 4p is higher than the new 2p old 2p

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the comparison is not considering item levels to be fair

lilac stag
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Just sim it

hexed dagger
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yeah I mean i'll sim once I get tier

vale pine
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but the new 4p is rly powerful, so you want to try to get it asap

lilac stag
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Or play 2+2 on assa where it is strong

hexed dagger
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tell that to the two tier tokens for my group across both difficulties 🙂

vale pine
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on assassination

plain jay
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question, can you out range your shadow clones from sectec? like the first one hits but then your clones aren't in range or something?

lilac stag
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Ofc. But rogue likely ain’t walking out with 4pc this week

plain jay
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but like.... i'm in range of the boss, i'm attacking this mfer...

lilac stag
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So if you’re lucky to have 2p, you as assa maybe better option for a boss with a dps check if you’re stuck.

hexed dagger
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yeah Im fine, damage isnt an issue for us rn

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just planning ahead

lilac stag
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ye

hexed dagger
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we were any pull away from killing mugzee tonight

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just dumb mistakes

vale pine
lilac stag
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Idk where we are headed tonight. We did 4 heroic Tuesday. Maybe first boss mythic and back to heroic.

lilac stag
tepid trellis
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ret has been dethroned

image.png
shell delta
hexed dagger
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what are you sending rune crests on?

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just like hero trinkets basically?

jaunty heath
mighty citrus
tepid trellis
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8

honest grail
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!fuu

wicked joltBOT
jaunty heath
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damn thats big deeps bro haha which key was it? i just feel like a wet noodle when flag/blades down

tepid trellis
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floodgate

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we did some cranking on first boss

image.png
honest grail
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@vale pine why are the sims using different items than the wowhead BiS list

nocturne birch
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!wa

wicked joltBOT
jaunty heath
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chad gamer lol got any tier? i mean i can burst like 6m st on a boss but not sustain i think best boss for me is around 3.5

tribal blade
jaunty heath
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i hvant played it for ages but my god its fun when you have all your cooldowns

tepid trellis
tribal blade
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2/2pc is a downgrade right now sadly

jaunty heath
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for me itrs small dps gain but thats probly just because ilvl

tribal blade
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yeah if you gain a lot of ilvl with it it'll be good

vale pine
short aurora
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when im down in the gutter and i have only a 2 min trinket, should i hold my cd's for lining it? Probably right?

jaunty heath
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i was sin swapping over to sub and didnt have a mitter 😦 as i never picked it from vault and was having issues with lining up skardens with it nice everytime it lines up but yeh

short aurora
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ye im in the same boat

jaunty heath
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i have lost big burst every time it lines up but its just awkward when trinket on 30-40s cd and u got cds lol so im runnung honeybuzzer and passive for now till cards

vale pine
short aurora
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ye its skardyn's

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alrigthy that's what it thought

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so i probably send an extra dry sd + symbols right?

steel zinc
glacial hinge
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!fuu

wicked joltBOT
steel zinc
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And nothing for your 2nd burst

lilac stag
jaunty heath
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the dmg is lower then my passive now anyways

lilac stag
#

Just like 2m racials

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It’s not a good trinket.

honest grail
maiden gale
#

does this mean i have to switch to outlaw now ? :c

image.png
#

is it that good ?

honest grail
#

Pretty sure it's bis main hand

keen dome
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time to be an Outlaw, yep

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Give 'em the 'ol iron thumb

vale pine
maiden gale
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but i don't wanaa

keen dome
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I'm enjoying Sub a lot more in delves this season

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I think branntanking new is good

west arch
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
fathom gazelle
#

my gear is mostly crit mastrey since i was assa last season , when i compare logs i do way more sec tecs but it doesnt deal dmg equal to others who stacks vers even if i have more casts of it , is that a stat problem or rotation problem generally?

lilac stag
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rotation more than likely

fathom gazelle
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thats weird coz i do 100% same as guide , where in every sd i bs into sec

small juniper
#

ofc its a vers problem haha

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if some1 has 20% vers

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and u have 5

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obviously theyre gonna do more secret tech dmg

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when u cold blood ur secret tech half the time

plush pecan
#

!wa

wicked joltBOT
lilac stag
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!bs

wicked joltBOT
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Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

paper iron
#

!up

wicked joltBOT
haughty mural
#

!wa

wicked joltBOT
haughty mural
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:3

tribal blade
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i totally forgot i need to start using backstab in first global of dance again

haughty mural
#

I also didnt yesterday

tribal blade
#

good thing i kept that bind for dance+stab empty

haughty mural
#

i came home, got invited, pulled boss

tribal blade
#

i knew it might pop up again

tribal blade
#

0.5%

#

won't make or break your dps by a huge amount

lilac stag
#

It’s less with s1 tier

tribal blade
#

does using a basic /cast dance /cast backstab macro break like the strike one

haughty mural
#

ye i know
i remembered my bind later on ... but i had better pulls when i didnt use it (rng)

clever delta
#

I'm sitting on lot of vers already

tribal blade
clever delta
#

Fucking vers back 😄

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Come with tittle

tribal blade
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i honestly can't wait to replace the ring, windsinger is super annoying to get the right stat buffed

fallow nimbus
#

Doesn't unequipping gear helps?

tribal blade
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it's just more so i can't get an even spread of stats

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either vers or mast will become super juiced

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i think it's an ocd thing

lilac stag
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when have we ever cared about stat spread garf_sit

tribal blade
#

my brain is just short circuiting

alpine wraith
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meanwhile me with 3k more matery than vers

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made diff

lilac stag
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and then you pop a vers flask and give no shits kekw

image.png
keen dome
#

Haha

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MORE MASTERY

lilac stag
#

19.6m 12.8v lol

keen dome
#

haha

void ocean
#

what do u guys think, I got 639 cloak and Im wondering if +5k dps is worth losing all that avoidance and bonus healing effect, or should I wait for a more significant upgrade?

steady fern
#

yo fellas, anyone already simmed whats better 2p2 or the old 4p4 until new 4p4?

lilac stag
#

sim your own gear

haughty mural
#

hell yeah

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appreciate it when i get 4pc in 3 weeks

keen dome
#

woo

tacit bone
#

does anyone know about a macro for symbols of death that dont make you fat finger it? so when its active you cant press it again? Surebud

feral knot
#

!wa

wicked joltBOT
small juniper
#

if u guys care u can get 658 free ring upgrade

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by equipping cyrces circlet in both ring slots and deleting it and getting a new 1

civic forge
#

lmao again

shadow lance
sacred yarrow
#

!sd

#

!sod

wicked joltBOT
#

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

shadow lance
#

Yes, this

tribal blade
#

unprecedented

shadow lance
#

CEO's son is playing sub this tier?

tacit bone
sacred yarrow
#

📈

sage depot
#

il y a un fr avec une grosse connaissance de la finesse ?

alpine wraith
#

you can ask zac most people here dont understand french

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but in dms maybe chat is mostly english

leaden prairie
#

I don't speak french

shadow lance
#

Can ask Zac or I can try to help you but I'm not a BIG sub player

small juniper
#

neither is zac

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hes an outlaw noob

shadow lance
#

Indeed

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Zac, you suck bro

tribal blade
#

apply outlaw "press on cd" to sub

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it'll end well promise

leaden prairie
#

It's funny cause we don't press anything on cd either

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I think pressing on cd apply as much as outlaw than sub

#

Just means don't hold shit

#

Idk

tribal blade
#

ah ok

vale pine
#

do we talk about one specific trinket, because subtlety def. does hold and plan around cooldowns very diffrently

left peak
vale osprey
small juniper
#

i got 639 and had to farm some rares

#

took 30 min to relvl it

hollow spear
#

I'll rename to "mauvaise connaissance de la finesse"

barren wolf
#

i got 658

hollow spear
#

And try to tidy up your burst window a bit

vale osprey
hollow spear
#

Shadow dance needs to be back to back, you probably hold because of macro

hollow spear
vale osprey
hollow spear
#

Yes

solid lotus
#

i think im okay?

hollow spear
#

You should open a log review

#

Guys

solid lotus
#

but i should be better

small juniper
hollow spear
#

There's a log command

vale osprey
#

I def need to work on the timings of when to start not-pressing it and waiting for the 2nd burst window

vale osprey
hollow spear
#

So your questions don't spam the general sub channel

vale osprey
#

Absolutely - what's the command and apologies for taking up space in the channel

hollow spear
#

I think it's log with an exclamation point

solid lotus
#

!log

#

thanks, sorry

hollow spear
#

Checking previous log reviews should also help you

vale osprey
#

!log

hollow spear
#

Because people tend to make the same or at least similar mistakes when playing sub

vale osprey
#

For sure - thanks so much mate. Will try to clean it up

errant tinsel
#

!wa

wicked joltBOT
solid lotus
#

besides that, is sub competitive with ass in keys?

shadow lance
#

Played both in 7, similar overall

paper iron
#

@leaden prairie are u enjoying it so far cuh? happy_holiday_pepe

shadow lance
#

I just think ass will struggle in longer boss fight

#

But will do bigger damages on huge pulls

solid lotus
remote rapids
#

I miss sin on trash but I do like sub way more on boss fights. Sub on trash just feels so weird so rarely casting BP and stuff. Caustic splatter in sin is just fun when you tons of poison bomb procs and stuff. Just hoping with tier one starts to feel better or worse so I can focus in on one

paper iron
#

remember that house of card is 90s

#

all i wanna say

remote rapids
#

But I do enjoy sub in raid so far, but I’ve always like sub in raid

solid lotus
#

i just wanna get like a little bit better at sub in raid haha

paper iron
#

current sub is really cool tbh, i started to hate it like late shadowlands but they changed it a lot ina good way happy_holiday_pepe

haughty mural
remote rapids
#

It will be slow getting by tier for me probably since our tier set isn’t as impactful as a lot of other classes, so sure I’m down on the list for getting it in raid. But easy to get extra catalyst charges now as well

lilac stag
#

Our tier is tied with arms for bis on our token

haughty mural
leaden prairie
smoky vault
leaden prairie
#

Idk why but that trinket actually nerf my damage so bad

#

Occupy too much of my brain

fleet acorn
#

Shadowstep buggy on last Boss 😂😂 porting me off map haha

smoky vault
wild hornet
smoky vault
#

Ofc but I mean chaos brand superior in any situation but M progress

wild hornet
#

Ehh

#

I wouldnt say its superior

#

Since its a spell with a cd and not a lot of duration

smoky vault
#

What ? Chaos is not a spell

#

Poison master, Pirate, Shadow Master

All assassin lore

That's how it should be renamed xD

limber relic
#

wowanalyzer not work for sub?

hybrid wave
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
atomic girder
#

is it worth to use this galaywix craft or naq

lilac stag
paper iron
# smoky vault Tbh, DH being on par with rogue + chaos brand makes me cry. 3.6% damage reductio...

i would agree with u, but sub currently brings a burst that is just phenomenal and could be usefull in some mecanics. Couple expac ago i would just have agreed with you and told you than rogue is a 3 dps spec that does only dps and should be top damage everywhere cuz it s just good at that. But now atro exists, all 3 specs have their strong strengh (outlaw's one being to be able to respec to sin/sub currently kek) and sub is so far doing very great damage in raid. For m+ it s another story, since bfa i guess they will not ever make rogue that meta again, they re scared idk

lean harbor
#

anyone have guide for sub pvp gear?

jaunty heath
#

Average Shadowstep experience

ShadowKEK.gif
keen dome
#

lmao

twilit phoenix
#

That shit is gonna stay borked

#

For the rest of the xpac

smoky vault
#

No look they are hotfixing bugs for rogue, hope xD

tribal blade
#

very likely they fix it because it bugs for other classes too i've heard

paper iron
#

be carefull what u wish for

#

when they fix a thing

#

they create 2 more bugs usually

keen dome
#

I'm 90% sure it's 'cos he's technically in two spots in P1 and P2 and are static

tribal blade
#

it's bugging for other abilities like feral lunge and other shit like that iirc

keen dome
#

and it's stepping those

paper iron
#

those could be cool or gamebreaking unplayable shit

keen dome
#

'Cos I don't think it happens in P1 / 2?

tribal blade
#

it's a massive bug

#

they will address it

keen dome
#

Massively funny bug coup_de_grace

#

(But agreed)

tribal blade
#

heehee

#

i'm very very VERY sure they will fix it

keen dome
#

Same

#

It's just funny

smoky vault
paper iron
#

No we gotta boon, we gotta stand still for 3seconds

keen dome
#

And then ti spawns the orb and the orb is SOMEWHERE inside the boss

shadow lance
#

Or the soak is in swirlies

keen dome
#

Haha yeah

#

Like you can play around it and adapt and plan it out but it's so much load for such an annoying trinket

#

god I hate I get HoC on reset

hollow spear
#

I feel like atrophic is underrated

paper iron
#

the one i hate the more actually is jump but because i m dumb

#

once i start pressing jump once

keen dome
#

big same, Censi

paper iron
#

i spam jump for 10mn

keen dome
#

Yeah, haha

hollow spear
#

True

#

trigger finger of doom

wild hornet
#

I dont think blizz woll give compensations

#

For the bug

#

Bad day to be at work

hollow spear
#

is there a new one?

paper iron
#

Leave your job and apply as a rogue dev

merry grail
keen dome
#

they should hire me

#

I'd get us what we need most

hollow spear
#

pay: a half eaten sandwich a day and a toilet break at 20.30 pm

keen dome
#

Poison toggle

twilit phoenix
#

Wish palmbee would take a toilet break on my head

wild hornet
#

An hour ago exactly

#

Patched now

#

Was about deleting the citrine to get discounted ring upgrades

shell bramble
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
wild hornet
#

Now its gone

hollow spear
#

I'd probably have messed up

shell willow
#

I broke my s1 4pc too quickly. S2 2pc and s1 2pc is so weak.

rare sedge
#

yoyo, as assa i heard we crafting dagger first week, is it also good for sub rog? or are the embelishments not worth concidering. or actually even wait with craft for next ids? 😄

twilit phoenix
hollow spear
#

Man, Eleem is such a tryhard :^)

image.png
shell willow
#

Nah i have 2 heroic tier pieces

smoky vault
#

Yes +10 ilvl 2pc S2 sims less that 4pc S1 for me

twilit phoenix
smoky vault
#

I guess it needs +20 ilvl

#

To overpass

twilit phoenix
#

Really?

shell willow
#

Yeah my burst windows are so weak now.

#

I see people bursting for 6mil while I'm at like 3.5

haughty mural
#

not new 4pc

half osprey
#

my dropped gear from m4-6 are siming higher then 636 crafter vers mast, even tho they are haste mast / vers crit.. they sim by 0.5%higher

twilit phoenix
half osprey
#

I rly dno how big it is losing versa? should I just go for the new dropped gear?

twilit phoenix
hollow spear
#

I don't think 2+2 pc is the reason you are bursting 2,5 mio less

wild hornet
lilac stag
#

Agility is good. Sims will guide your gear choices.

smoky vault
#

Wonder if void elf takes the 4pc too in their shadowfrost damage bonus

shell willow
paper iron
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
tribal blade
#

it's not - half your damage

shell willow
#

Do you have a log i can look at real quick of your opener?

#

I'm doing something really wrong.

tribal blade
#

can't remember if i even did a great opener here, but orange parsed it so must be ok

shell willow
#

Lol 5 mil opener yo wtf

#

You peaked at 10mil in the damage amp and I was at 7.8 or so.

tribal blade
#

damn i'm looking i'm sandwiched between all the people with 658-675 mainhand daggers and i'm using a 639 on this log

#

oh well 1st week logs don't matter

lilac stag
#

what’s next? Prog logs don’t matter? omegalul

tribal blade
#

haha fair

twilit phoenix
#

Peep the peak ez

shell willow
#

@twilit phoenix Haha y'all just piling on now

lilac stag
twilit phoenix
#

I should have saved pot for peak

#

Would have been giga

sonic elm
#

Look at sub logs, come to the realization that I'm old and I suck. Nothing new here peeposleep

keen dome
#

high5

lilac stag
shell willow
#

it hurts

sonic elm
#

I did play assa last season because vault gave me myth skardyn on like week 3, hated every minute of it

paper iron
#

everyweek logs doesnt matter copium

shell willow
#

The only big gear differences i see is the amount of vers ya have then I do. 10k to my 14k or 16k

paper iron
#

that s what i m telling myself since i m washed up

tribal blade
#

well there's such an enormous gear disparity 1st week

lilac stag
tribal blade
#

depending on when you do the bosses vs how much key spamming you do

keen dome
twilit phoenix
#

A nice log makes my peepee feel good tho

void ocean
#

I got my hero track dagger from hidden trove this morning 😄

swift tinsel
#

I locked in my 100 ilvl parses so no one can ever call me bad

viscid urchin
#

big number good for monkey brain

paper iron
#

and i took a screenshot when it mattered

#

now it doesnt

lilac stag
shell willow
#

Yeah I'd like to not be a crutch to my guild

paper iron
#

back when it mattered

image.png
jaunty heath
#

Yo isnt an 8 bountiful delve supposed to give you a guaranteed map

#

i read something like that

keen dome
#

Nah

lilac stag
#

No

keen dome
#

The nemesis spawn does if he shows up

paper iron
#

now i m happy with low purple

swift tinsel
#

They’re still rng

keen dome
#

Otherwise it's random drop, but you get one drop a week

lilac stag
#

You can use an item to force it

keen dome
#

I'm happy with a kill week 1. Then I'll worry about blue or purple prases eventually. Kill -> all.

jaunty heath
#

im so confused

twilit phoenix
#

insta bust

swift tinsel
#

I think I got my map from my 7th bountiful or something like that

keen dome
#

I got mine on my 8th or something, yeah

lilac stag
twilit phoenix
#

You can buy the item that summons the dude

#

Who drops the map

keen dome
#

25 - 28 gilded for such chill work each week owns

swift tinsel
#

And got a cloak that’s a downgrade from my 636 crafted lol

twilit phoenix
#

Scath knows the tech

#

You can guarantee a map

keen dome
swift tinsel
#

Uh oh

jaunty heath
swift tinsel
#

DUDE

twilit phoenix
keen dome
#

It's complete fucking trash, I think

swift tinsel
#

They nerfed it so fuckin hard

lilac stag
swift tinsel
#

It used to have no cooldown

keen dome
#

Hell yeah, high5 Scath

swift tinsel
#

And was awesome

limber relic
#

All i've gotten is chest cloves and legs that i can't equip becasue its less dps then S1 4 set :/

lilac stag
keen dome
#

I simmed it and it was like 100k~ worse than transmitter and 40k worse than crystal lol

viscid urchin
swift tinsel
#

Man that sucks they slapped a 2min cd on it

lilac stag
#

was trying to beat our RL (hunter) to first 11.

#

though I did get 1st deathless 11

swift tinsel
#

It was spammable and you could use an @player macro every 10 seconds for free damage

keen dome
#

Haha damn

#

I'm pretty happy with my rng so I can't complain

#

642 euqipped, 646 bag atm

lilac stag
#

higher than me

swift tinsel
#

Yeah I got a priory ring with speed last night

keen dome
#

645 bloody token stuff is nice

swift tinsel
#

And have every slot catalyst option

keen dome
#

Versa / mast cloak and gloves to 645 for very minimal effort

swift tinsel
#

And depending on how we do tonight starting heroic I should have 7, maybe 8 hero track vault options

keen dome
#

But it'd be nice to have a hero piece

#

No hero kills yet 'cos pugging is a nightmare

solemn lance
#

People running weaponmaster for m+. I think the sim shows it that way but tmbuod guides show the sgmhadow dance extension. I'm assuming it's weaponmaster if there is lots of chain pulls

lilac stag
#

WM is shit

swift tinsel
lilac stag
#

swap to TFD

swift tinsel
#

I’m hoping to get to +6’s by the weekend tho too

#

The guildies I’ve been running with have been cautious about going above 4’s lol

#

Which is fine

void ocean
#

if we vanish during boss fight and stay idle 6 sec do we get tfd again? 😄

swift tinsel
#

Boss fights don’t drop combat lol

void ocean
#

I know, that was a joke

keen dome
void ocean
#

would be a perfect filler between dances tho

keen dome
#

Although I wanna try to finish a 10 for reset but c'est la vie

#

Not gonna sweat it. Week 1 aotc via pugs dream isn't happening this tier.

swift tinsel
#

Dang, yeah this raid doesn’t look like the most pug-friendly

void ocean
#

i think pug ends with 1 arm bandit

keen dome
#

Yeah. Normal was rough enough in pugs. Heroic seems to be getting stuck on Rik / Stix atm.

#

Or yeah, Bandit

void ocean
#

pug on discord maybe

#

but just pug without rl is never gonna be able to do coins

keen dome
#

Ye, a competent RL is the most integral thing to pugging

#

and 80% people just form a group and go "okay do the boss"

void ocean
#

i mean for some raids just having proper WA was enough

keen dome
#

Yeah. I think the first two and lockensprocket will be relatively free even this week in pugs

#

it's just stix / reverb that suck

vestal escarp
#

Im raiding with tfd

#

Banger experience

keen dome
#

I've seen pugs trying to 3 or even 4 tank Rik

vestal escarp
#

If only the big dance was there for every flag

wild hornet
#

Only if flag was on a 30 sec cd

swift tinsel
#

I’m gonna run Tfd on our normals 100%

wild hornet
swift tinsel
#

Gonna keep doing them til everyone gets 4pc or close to it so might as well blast

keen dome
#

Oh that's a good idea

swift tinsel
#

Our RL is having us do Tuesday normal Thursday heroic prog for a couple weeks

tribal blade
#

i did normal splits with my guild this week so our normal kill times were LONG haha

keen dome
#

So, like. am I going insane or is this tier more difficult? What do you, the competent raiders, feel?

#

In relaton to Nerubar, specifically

swift tinsel
#

We got a lot of bunk drops Tuesday so it’ll def help

#

Normal didn’t feel too bad, we oneshot everything except mugzee which we twoshot

keen dome
#

Nice

#

I'm wondering how much is just critical pug difference, haha

tribal blade
swift tinsel
#

But we have a really good raid leader so that helps a lot

tribal blade
#

mugzee is on steroids

keen dome
#

I didn't lead my normals and lemme tell you: holy shit pug leads.

swift tinsel
#

He plays ret so he can focus on timers and callouts lol

keen dome
#

the first one was literally just spamming "SOAK THIS" on the first two bosses. non-stop. And on RiK Reverb he explained Stix instead.

tribal blade
#

normal felt pretty ok, i did normal splits with my 599 ilvl arms warrior

#

and didn't die once

keen dome
#

Nice

tribal blade
#

btw arms warrior is so brain dead haha

void ocean
#

even Echo and Liquid wiped a few times on bandit and above during splits

tribal blade
#

felt nice to not think as much

swift tinsel
#

Mugzee was just kinda rough bc our tanks moved him a bit slow

#

And some of the mines just didn’t move

keen dome
#

I do think these fights are gonna become turbo easy in a month or so with gear because so much of it is % based phase changes (Gally, Mug'zee, Bandit? I think?) etc

swift tinsel
#

Crawlers ain’t crawling

keen dome
#

Where big damage is gonna make it so much easier

swift tinsel
#

Oh yeah 100%

tribal blade
#

yes absolutely

swift tinsel
#

Is anyone else running a third tank on Rix to soak

keen dome
#

Pugs are, yeah

swift tinsel
#

That’s what we did and it made it turbo easy

keen dome
#

Honestly seems like a good idea

swift tinsel
#

We had a prot warrior do it but I could see other tanks being even better

#

We just have infinity warriors lol

keen dome
#

Haha

swift tinsel
#

Kills my tier dreams dracthyr_cry_animated

#

One of them is absolutely cracked though, dudes a machine

keen dome
#

Hell yeah

#

HP inflation is gonna rule this tier. Almost at 7m

#

I bet we'll be close to 9.5 - 10m by iLevel cap?

swift tinsel
#

That’s something I’m a little frustrated by early season, could do higher keys and survive more but I can’t break tier set yet lol

keen dome
#

Yeah..

swift tinsel
#

As soon as I can it’s like an 8-10 ilvl jump

small spade
#

!wax

wicked joltBOT
swift tinsel
#

Did get a Motherlode helm to replace Betrayers so my mastery is liking that

keen dome
#

I wish I could just keep running normal for gear like M+

#

I love raid fights

swift tinsel
#

As a boss obliterator fan, absolutely me too

wild hornet
#

I got two daggers from mplus

#

So idk if ill bother crafting a dagger

keen dome
#

Hell yeah

#

Can see what youg et in vault?

wild hornet
#

Got two more raids

#

Since i got fucked with loot

#

Cuz of blizzard

swift tinsel
#

I crafted one at 658 before our normal and got one from Rix so I’m just gonna upgrade it as soon as I get some more gilded

wild hornet
#

Small indie company

keen dome
#

Daggeh is 675 at gilded, so unless you get a myth it's gonna be good

wild hornet
keen dome
wild hornet
#

I barely got my rogue to 630

swift tinsel
#

Oh I am for sure

keen dome
wild hornet
#

Ill probably get fucked in a 10

#

I run in shit forgetting im not a paladin

keen dome
#

It's 25 - 28 gilded a week from delves which you can do in groups. So even if you don't touch any other fgilded content

wild hornet
swift tinsel
#

I just had a bunch of runed crests from spamming 2’s and I’m pretty sure it’s as many crests to craft as it is to upgrade the raid dagger to 658

keen dome
#

that's 3 weeks to a -3 ilevel capped dagger

wild hornet
swift tinsel
#

I really wanna run 7’s before reset

wild hornet
#

I should do delves

keen dome
wild hornet
#

But idk how hard are s2 8s

wild hornet
swift tinsel
#

I think if I can do 3 that’ll give me enough crests

wild hornet
#

After ditching me on wednesday morning

swift tinsel
#

I’m gonna have to pug probably

wild hornet
keen dome
#

7's are 10 on timing.

swift tinsel
#

But I might be able to convince one of our tanks and possible a healer

keen dome
#

Not sure on non-timed.

swift tinsel
#

ToP 7 should be pretty easy id imagine

#

Can hard-carry first boss lol

lilac stag
#

So you can evasion the stun on Rick Reverb

swift tinsel
#

Badass

mystic ether
#

Is bloodmallet uptodate?

lilac stag
#

@keen dome you laugh but you can do uninterrupted opener with evasion

haughty mural
lilac stag
#

The big orange circle under him

flint widget
#

sub definetly feels a blast to play this season, having fun early on

image.png
haughty mural
#

ah amplifier

#

yea

lilac stag
haughty mural
#

or that

shell willow
#

@tribal blade @twilit phoenix thanks for your logs. I was messing up my transmitter. Basically didnt do the task some times unless it was jump 3 times.

keen dome
twilit phoenix
#

That’ll do it

#

14k agi is p good

keen dome
#

"Where the fuck has my orb gone.."

shell willow
#

Yeah because lol i have the rotation down and im like yo wtf

twilit phoenix
#

Fuck that trink tho

#

These 30 man raids

tribal blade
shell willow
#

Yeah cant wait to drop it

twilit phoenix
#

And spell effects

tribal blade
#

i'm over transmitter

keen dome
#

I'm 100% certain I missed it multiple times on my normal prog

#

and I just don't care

tribal blade
#

can't wait to equip house of cards

keen dome
#

I hope they nerf it again

#

Keep nerfing it so the fucking trash orb on a 2m cooldown is better

twilit phoenix
#

No please no

wild hornet
#

Cant wait to hate on keys again

twilit phoenix
#

Keys are banger rn bgl

shell willow
#

I have it macro'd to blades as well so that doesnt help either. Gonna run it naked it likely press it after i flag and before a finisher

twilit phoenix
#

Ngl*

keen dome
#

Yeah they feel good.

keen dome
#

So I can pop it and let it sit until I need it

twilit phoenix
#

i just have trans on flag too

wild hornet
#

First boss on cinderbrew was a nightmare

keen dome
#

(this does not always work because THE ORB LEAVES)

wild hornet
shell willow
#

Oh okay maybe that will work as well so I dont completely forget it all together

wild hornet
#

Shadowstep sectec

#

Dz

#

Ez

keen dome
#

Hahah yeah

shell willow
#

also moved backstab to my stealth bar for dance macbre

wild hornet
#

Thats how i died on dino boss

#

And got cussed

calm rose
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
digital frigate
#

Maybe a dumb question so I am sorry, but in M+ at what target count do we not care about rupture or do we always care?

lilac stag
#

We rupture when cds are not up an it lives 12 seconds or more

haughty mural
#

eg you can spread ruptures when tank gathers

wild hornet
#

When youre a few seconds before cds do you do backstabs till max copo or just send an sstrike or two during dance for copo

haughty mural
#

and if it is gathered you blast em

digital frigate
#

I've been rupturing at beginning of the pull but if a quick gather starting to think that is a feels bad

#

definitely not rupturing during sd or anything

wild hornet
#

Wouldn't it be fine for a danse macabre stack before sectec

lilac stag
#

No

haughty mural
#

stop it

lilac stag
#

Jesus

haughty mural
#

before fuu finds another one

keen dome
#

My backstab macro broke so I can't macro in dance anymore

#

a tragedy, really.

#

can't fix it.

wild hornet
haughty mural
#

backstab is back

slate lantern
wild hornet
shell delta
#

tf is copo

wild hornet
#

I dont want to say the other abbreviation

haughty mural
#

whats wrong with

#

cp

#

?

keen dome
#

I say combies

wild hornet
#

So i just say copo

keen dome
#

Combies should become the norm.

#

Stackin' me combies.

wild hornet
slate lantern
#

idk i think its pretty clear we're not referring to that other shit when talking about wow skills lol

wild hornet
slate lantern
wild hornet
slate lantern
wild hornet
sonic hamlet
#

sometimes i'm just unsure if i should hold it or use it and secret technique

random cairn
#

if i have a delve map should i use it on lvl 8 or higher as possible?

tall venture
#

Hey! Can we solo soak the Goblin-guided rocket Mugzee using Cloak ?

fluid moth
#

But I’m not a sub expert

chrome palm
lilac stag
shell willow
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!logs

worn cape
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We are a "when the stars align" spec

honest grail
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Have you guys noticed that cloak doesn't work on a bunch of stuff in the new dungeons?

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Like rookery second boss debuff, if you get it while cloak is active it deals damage to you as if you didn't have it up

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And priory second boss, soaking with cloak active will remove it from you

woeful rain
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anyone have that sweet dance/backstab macro?

swift tinsel
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looking at logs and yeah, Vexie is my favorite boss

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chilly falcon
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we dont use coup out of dance?

dreamy oasis
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What is the command for the add count wa for BP usage?

swift tinsel
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did almost 20% of all damage during the vuln peak lol

lilac stag
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@keen dome which bountiful delves are up in EU?

autumn glade
keen dome
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Excavation Site 9

dreamy oasis
lilac stag
keen dome
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🫡

wild hornet
vocal lantern
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!up

wicked joltBOT
keen dome
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Man, priory fucking rules as Sub

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Also just in general. Fun.

swift tinsel
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yeah I get why people don't like it but I had a blast the one I've done so far

wild hornet
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Just say skill issue and move on

keen dome
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Just did it on +4, and we didn't time it 'cos nobody in the group knew what the boss 2 or boss 3 mythic mechanic was lmao

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So we just wiped to it. And then killed it. But would've been fine otherwise. But it was fun

swift tinsel
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Lol we did a 3 and timed by like 25seconds for the same reason

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went overly cautious until we hit the last room and the pulsing damage got spicy lol

lean harbor
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which one should i buy for 2set?

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shell willow
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Did a 6. Last boss was a bitch

swift tinsel
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I can def see it

lean harbor
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to get this

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swift tinsel
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That's the only boss where I felt in legitimate danger

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also people kept getting blinded lol

keen dome
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Hammers on boss 2 are gonna kill a LOT of people

swift tinsel
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Yuuuup

keen dome
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But otherwise it's very easy

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'easy' simple

swift tinsel
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if your tank isn't proactive in moving him away you can get rolled

keen dome
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Yeah

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I'm curious how routing will end up 'cos we had to clear the full final room

swift tinsel
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we ended up over count

keen dome
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But trash outside seems easier than trash inside

swift tinsel
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and could have skipped the two packs right by last boss

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but weren't sure if they'd aggro with him

keen dome
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The two left and right of her stairs?

swift tinsel
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yeah

keen dome
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They aggro when you pull her on heroic at least

swift tinsel
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that's what we thought, yeah

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bc we did the left side mini boss instead of the right and got a fair bit of trash

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and did a few lynx pacs

keen dome
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Left miniboss miles easier

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right miniboss is non-stop fire armageddon

swift tinsel
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Yeah, a few guides I saw said to do the right one

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but left was cake

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just don't nuke yourself with reflect

keen dome
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Maybe they're right, I dunno

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We didn't die but it was chaotic haha

swift tinsel
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idk we had zero trouble outside of ass-pulling

keen dome
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I hit 11m on one of the packs. That was nice.