subtlety

[swift tinsel]

early days sure its way worse

[young mural]

how do you get knowledge points?

[swift tinsel]

crafting orders, which show up in droves

[tranquil garden]

you get 3 catchup points a day

[young mural]

patron orders right?

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[young mural]

those cost money to make right?

[tranquil garden]

which is enough in a couple weeks to make a single craft you're interested in 5star

[swift tinsel]

barely

[young mural]

lol

[swift tinsel]

literally everything in the game costs money

unless you farm it yourself

which isn't hard

[keen dome]

You can actually (for a few professions) hit R5 day 1 with them off the back of the world profession knowledge, first crafts and books.

[swift tinsel]

because there's shit everywhere

[keen dome]

Of course that's with like, super narrow focusing and prior knowledge.

[swift tinsel]

I can get hundreds of herbs in just a couple loops around ringing deeps which is maybe 30mins

[alpine wraith]

remember there is darkmoon faire this week

for extra points

[tranquil garden]

engineering is an interesting one because stuff is guaranteed 5star but unless you capped out on knowledge you can't use the important finishing reagents, so you can still charge a premium for the craft

of course, the flip side of that is that nobody wants anything engineering has to offer, so, lol

see a couple gun requests every once in a while

[swift tinsel]

gotta get the mount parts

[keen dome]

That's a really good point, yeah

[swift tinsel]

but yeah they're kinda lacking for stuff outside potion bombs

[keen dome]

I think I've made 1 gun, and 2 bracers lmao

[tranquil garden]

the bracers and helm are interesting but only a couple specs would use those

[keen dome]

hang on

This is from the start of DF (FInished that with like, 5k crafts or something? combined)

But the difference is very funny

[swift tinsel]

I made an ultimate support aug with r3 potion bomb of power as the only thing I specced into deliberatelo lol

[young mural]

you guys are insane. I came back to TWW a few months back, and I've maxxed engineering on 2 chars and tailoring/leatherworking. it costs quite A LOT of time and a significant amount of gold to max the professions.

You people are saying all that effort is worthless because you dont need to spend conc for a r5 craft and its "just a button"?

[tranquil garden]

actually bracers and helm are infuriating because they don't use the regular embellishments, only the extra-shitty engineering ones

[keen dome]

Right?? AND the potion Engineering tinker is BAD

It makes me sad.

[tranquil garden]

man idk I just charge like between 1 to 5k depending on what I feel like and if somebody doesn't want to pay that they can find somebody else

[keen dome]

Also like 400 of those Engineering orders are just Aug's in S2/S3 wanting rez bracers.

[keen dome]

Nobody is saying it's worthless. I'm just saying that all you are ultimately doing is pushing a button and I personally think demanding high gold cost to that is silly when most people now just go "tip whatever you want"

[young mural]

i dont even do crafting orders, i did professions mostly for myself and friends. idc about tips, but what i disagree with is these dudes saying "you just press a button"

[tranquil garden]

well yeah if someone tells me that I tell them they can push the button themselves

people are gonna say whatever, that's the internet

[young mural]

yhea

[swift tinsel]

plus cost is relative

5k is nothing to me, something to others

[quaint lodge]

Yea, on dalaran you can charge a good fee and people will pay it cuz the server is dead

on area52, you ask me for 10k im juist gonna ask one of the other 10 people who dm'd after say lf craft

[swift tinsel]

same with farming mats, which I do when I'm bored which is often

[tranquil garden]

same on my server, suramar

5k isn't exactly outrageous anyway

or at least it wasn't

might be a bit much now and I'll cut it some

[keen dome]

You can probably get away with it week 1 tbh

[swift tinsel]

Malfurion usually has them for 1k a lot of the time

[tranquil garden]

surprised to hear that dalaran is dead I thought that was one of the busier ones

[keen dome]

Yeah, AD is effectively "tip whatever" and anybody trying to charge a fixed price gets laughed at.

[young mural]

stormrage is filled with crafters

[tranquil garden]

suramar/draka/windrunner/darrowmere are quiet but not dead, it's nice

[viral elbow]

Let’s be real, the tip for crafting isn’t the real issue. It’s the price of consumables. Worse than inflation in America.

[keen dome]

I miss R3 mats being so expensive because resourcefulness procs ruled

[tranquil garden]

I just have an alchemist that has infinite coreway catalysts that brings a potion cauldron to raid night

hearty feasts are fuckoff expensive tho

[swift tinsel]

I just have 700 potions and give them out lol

dude hearty midnight masqs are dumb

[old shale]

so is thug hotline sim bait? I see it outperforming eye of kezan not sure what to put on my bis list besides house of cards

[young mural]

btw you shouldnt be eating those as sub

secondary stat is better

[swift tinsel]

I provide feasts for the raid 99% of the time and unless I go get my own slum sharks I'm throwing away gold

[pulsar hemlock]

Eye did get a slight nerf

[young mural]

hearty beledar's bounty is better for sub

[swift tinsel]

not when I sim

[keen dome]

It's going to depend on your own statting iirc.

[young mural]

true

[tranquil garden]

sim yoself, as the kids say

[young mural]

[swift tinsel]

Masq is a whole percent better than beledar for me

[keen dome]

I just don't care and use Bounty 'cos I made like 500 at launch and am sitll going through them.

I'll sim when I run out.

[tranquil garden]

somebody else brings the flasks I bring the pots

[swift tinsel]

Oh yeah I have a ton for myself when I do keys

[tranquil garden]

and if somebody's feeling generous they have a hearty feast

and we're all good

[young mural]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[tranquil garden]

it's only like 2k for me to make a pot cauldron lol

[swift tinsel]

I've been prepping to have 4 feasts a week for 8 weeks for prog

bc that's about how long we go before people get really bored

[young mural]

This is what fuu's guide says about foods

O_O

[swift tinsel]

Okay but sim yourself

and see there's a difference

[young mural]

i thought "you should be eating secondary stat food at all times" meant I didnt have to sim

but i guess not

[swift tinsel]

if you're ever gearing ever you should

[keen dome]

It's also within, what, crit variance? Who cares. Use whatever, it's a buff regardless.

[swift tinsel]

because blanket statements don't always hold true

[alpine wraith]

primary stat is better now that we have more secondaries

maybe you can tell fuu to update that part

[young mural]

nice

[hazy breach]

Do you really need to sim which of the +470 highest secondary stat foods sim the highest

[young mural]

no, im talking about the difference between secondary stat food and primary stat food

[austere tangle]

r there dslice sims anywhere? im lookin at the sheet rn and the link to the sims on the sheet are unclickable. unless im bugged

[young mural]

and i know its irrelevant, but i like to know which one is better

[swift tinsel]

nah they aren't there for me either

[alpine wraith]

slice ones are not done yet

as for sub it is likely to be stronger because how dungeons work than expected

[vale pine]

huh?

[alpine wraith]

but gear wont change much

[vale pine]

thats not from wowhead

[young mural]

oh my bad lmao

[swift tinsel]

stop stealing eleem's guide fuu

[young mural]

i meant @hazy breach's guide

[swift tinsel]

gonna have a turf war

[vale pine]

but as eleem mentiond, its whatever

[alpine wraith]

just dont talk about food like me

[vale pine]

try to have a food

[alpine wraith]

ez

[swift tinsel]

if I don't feed the babies they get cranky

[young mural]

YES

[vale pine]

but if you want good food, i would try ramen

[keen dome]

Don't raid on an empty stomach

[young mural]

whatever you tell me to order ill order tonight

what food am i eating tonight guys?

for well fed buff S2 start

[alpine wraith]

pizza

[keen dome]

burger

[alpine wraith]

when in doubt always pizza

[swift tinsel]

I'm going with a fat fuckin burrito

[vale pine]

okonomiyaki hiroshima style

ha

[keen dome]

gimme, damn. that's good ramen

[young mural]

had to google that

never heard of it, japanese pancake lmao

[swift tinsel]

there's a place like 20mins from here that has killer black garlic chashu ramen

[young mural]

i might go with pizza, had burgers yesterday

[silent rapids]

Potentially annoying question but which spec is going to be meta for m+ this season? I love m+ and need to start practicing.

[alpine wraith]

likely arms and enhance

[young mural]

and fire mage

and spriest

[swift tinsel]

totemic enh turbo fun

[alpine wraith]

actually dh

[young mural]

both for higher keys

[silent rapids]

My fault I meant of the rogue specs sorry

I do like fire mage tho so that’s good to know

[alpine wraith]

for rogues we can sit in the decline que

as the 3 specs

[rain stratus]

Assasination is kinda decent tbh

[swift tinsel]

I'm gonna list my own keys and decline everyone

[young mural]

IMO if your play is perfect, its going to go Sub > assass > outlaw

[alpine wraith]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/124169701881282560/823082725296701450/ezgif-3-662cd802c0f4.gif?ex=67c74845&is=67c5f6c5&hm=add58b095644c2bcd77716e6a55677ac3c86fe4846b2f2ca7b4896a39824a96d&

[swift tinsel]

except for feral druids and survival hunters

[young mural]

if higher keys i feel like assass will be better

[alpine wraith]

but for real the 3 specs will be doing mid to high fine

in higher keys you wont take rogues IN THEORY but as we always know

[keen dome]

Roll the dice and pick the one you like. That's the best way.

[alpine wraith]

rogue players made diff

skill>meta

[young mural]

personality diff

[keen dome]

Purple -> meta

[silent rapids]

I have almost zero experience with sub hoping to learn soon but I have got to 90-97 parses consistently on outlaw and assass so I’m comfortable on those.

[rain stratus]

I honestly think Assasination is just a straight tier ahead of sub, especially on high keys

[alpine wraith]

sub is not hard just complicated

it uses the same skills in the same order

just in different situations

[young mural]

could be true

[silent rapids]

If I found outlaw easy to understand and learn will I struggle to learn sub? Or is it harder?

[young mural]

assass is insane

[alpine wraith]

sub is more of a planning problem specially in m+

[vale pine]

I made both at home, see:
[Oknonmijaki](#1203397195588435999 message)
[Ramen](#1203397195588435999 message)

[young mural]

YES YOU WILL STRUGGLE INSANELY HARD IN MY OPINION I CANT PLAY IT CORRECTLY

[alpine wraith]

you have to CHOOSE what you use and how effective they will be

it is not like assa use cd on cd

[silent rapids]

Uh oh

[alpine wraith]

best you can do is try it a bit

or maybe watch gameplay and see if you like it

[keen dome]

You'll be fine. Just practice, read the guides, practice some more.

[young mural]

looks great, youre a good cook dude

[alpine wraith]

you can look at my videos for midcore content or the high key pushers maybe zac zeross casual etc will play sub

[keen dome]

It's all about learnign the why we do stuff and not just push button.

[young mural]

I can cook stuff thats good, but its never that presentable nice work

[swift tinsel]

dang these look reallllly good

[keen dome]

Also agreed they look stellar

[vale pine]

all sub tc's are good cooks

eleem posted some 5 star meals in the channel too

[silent rapids]

So when y’all try to learn a new spec you spend a lot of time watching videos? With outlaw I watched someone’s breakdown I forget who and the explained all conditions etc and with assass I tried something different I watched. High key players and watched the rotation they did and then read abilities to understand why that is the rotation

[alpine wraith]

yea i cook super good salads

yea for sub that would work

[silent rapids]

I will try ur vids hachadino

[swift tinsel]

I put my weakauras together while reading the guides so I know what to watch for and why

helps me see where the pieces fit together

[young mural]

thats what i was going to say, hacha's videos are quite good for that. he plays well

[keen dome]

I read a guide. I practice on a dummy. I am the dummy. I practice in dungeons and ask questions. Donezo. It's just takign the time to practice and to ask questions.

[young mural]

we need M+ content from @tribal blade tbh

[alpine wraith]

big blaster

[silent rapids]

Good advice

[keen dome]

You'll make mistakes. Stuff won't make sense. That's a natural part of learning. Just got to keep going and applying it until it's comfortable. If something doesn't make sense or is confusing: asking about it is good. Someone can explain it, or recontextualise it to be more easily grasped.

[silent rapids]

I have another question for y’all gamers. I currently use naowhs rogue weak aura as my main thing. Am I lacking anything thing I should be tracking or seeing?

[silent rapids]

Yeah I really fought against learning assass. I LOVE outlaw so I was like maybe I’ll just one trick outlaw but I pushed through and finally got to a point I almost love assass more

[swift tinsel]

unsure what his tracks

[young mural]

I use it too, albeit a very edited version. you're not missing out on anything important

[rain stratus]

Honestly, if youre new and wanna play Sub, I would strongly recommend LE's WA package

[young mural]

everything you need is there

[swift tinsel]

make sure you track symbols, dance, sectech, flag, blades, escalating blade

[silent rapids]

Ok good I think it has all that

[swift tinsel]

know when you do or don't have fazed on the target

[young mural]

it has unseen blades ICD tracker, escalating blade, everything

flawless form etc etc

[young mural]

yhea i'd add that @silent rapids it doesnt track it

[silent rapids]

This will likely be hard sometimes it’s super easier to lose my death stalkers mark on assass and idk who has it sometimes. I’m usually pretty good about it cuz of my player profile but sometimes I’ll lose it

[swift tinsel]

the nice thing for fazed vs mark is that fazed can be on any number of targets, not locked to one

[silent rapids]

Ah ok good to know, I have never edited a weakaura before where can I go to learn how to add something like that to itv

[young mural]

damn

[silent rapids]

Uh oh

[young mural]

idk where to go

[silent rapids]

Damn how’d u learn it?

[red raven]

!Fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[young mural]

i just clicked a bunch of shit until it worked tbh

[silent rapids]

Lmao I can do that

[young mural]

then i started learning what each thing did with time lol

[swift tinsel]

if you want you can just add an aura that tracks the debuff Fazed on your target

[silent rapids]

Worst comes to worst I can delete and reinstall I suppose . Been wanting to add my engineering belt sprint and cloak glider to the aux bar anyway

[young mural]

just edit the deathstalker's mark aura on aura bars, go into triggers and change the Spell id to fazed

[swift tinsel]

I'd duplicated the aura vs editing mark

[young mural]

duplicate the deathstalker's mark aura and edit it

[swift tinsel]

so that you still have both and don't have to start over

[young mural]

yhea thats what i meant lol

my bad

[silent rapids]

Ok that doesn’t sound bad I can do that

[swift tinsel]

its pretty easy, just right-click the mark aura, duplicate, then under Triggers change the spell name to Fazed

[young mural]

1 sec ill send it to you

[swift tinsel]

might need to look under the Load tab and make sure its enabled for Trickster

[silent rapids]

I’m in class right now so I can’t appt what ur saying at this moment but will def try as soon as I head home

Maybe I missed it but I was in here other day looking for a list of helpful rogue macros is that something that exists somewhere? I have some great ones but sometimes you don’t know what your missing until you see it and I wanted to explore for more

[young mural]

I made the aura for ya, sent it in DMs

[silent rapids]

Tysm? Much appreciated

[young mural]

(and for myself too lol)

[silent rapids]

Y’all have def been extremely helpful ty for all the advice

[cloud gale]

so is it 5+ or 7+ cuz every place says something different

😩

[alpine wraith]

7+ now as trickster

as of 2 or 3 days ago let people update things

[hexed dagger]

outside of dance do we storm on 2+ or 3+?

[young mural]

2 or more

more energy efficient

2 cp for "cheaper"

[crystal rain]

what is the range

of nimble flurry?

[swift tinsel]

8 yards

[crystal rain]

nice, what is the range of caustic on sin?

same?

[swift tinsel]

[leaden prairie]

is sc working with sec tech cdr

i have a clip of a situation here that it doesnt

[swift tinsel]

sc?

[leaden prairie]

supercharger

[swift tinsel]

ah

[leaden prairie]

https://www.twitch.tv/zerossxdd/clip/PeppyHilariousAardvarkSuperVinlin-rHazXs536JApIzt5

this clip isnt working on sec

so he pressed sod at full cp with 8s left on sec tech, should be 7s of cdr + 3s from sc

yet sec tech is still on cd

[hazy breach]

Its just sectech cdr being weird

[mortal trout]

I come back from a ass season and im confused. Can someone tell me for dummys hownoften i should use dance between major cd-dances? I dont get the timing

[hazy breach]

Its the same if you have 7s left and use a regular eviscerate

[leaden prairie]

so it works fine as long as you arent overcapping cdr basicallyt ?

[hazy breach]

Its reduced to 1, not to 0 for some reason

[leaden prairie]

ok so you get full cdr but never get to 0

[hazy breach]

Ye

[autumn glade]

the symbols was sent after the evis, no? so it didn't spend a supercharged point

[small spruce]

Is it just me or does House of Card trinket sim fairly low? currently doing some Droptimizer HC upgrades and HC HoC is only 1,1k dps upgrade.... Is that correct? or is the sims currently kinda wonky?

[hazy breach]

Its correct

[autumn glade]

it shows the symbols after the evis in the gcd tracker and you can even see that sectec goes to 1s before symbols was sent

[small spruce]

Fair enough, but the main upgrade is getting rid of Transmitter...

[hazy breach]

Unfortunately we only get mid trinkets this expac

[vestal escarp]

erm

anyone got any idea whats going on with tuning?

another one 1hr ago

[swift tinsel]

those BM hunters know what they did

[molten citrus]

ye true it looks like symbols came after the evis here

[mint swift]

Guys out of all of the sub rogues here

Who is the sneakiest

[swift tinsel]

Dave

ez

[glass jasper]

Is the new balance note another 5% sectec nerf AND another hunter buff? Or is it a revision of the previous one?

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's def Dave.

[hazy breach]

Its just the old nerf

But they changed the hunter buff from 10% to 5%

(aka its nerfed)

[small spruce]

Any thoughts of why every guide says Pyrotechnic Needle-Dropper is listed as bis on every site, but when simming, Random Number Perforator sims higher?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5ZxNbwE6k7G1tRy9fxsRLa

[glass jasper]

Thank god

[small spruce]

Dunno if you can see these numbers aswell, but it seems quite odd atm

[autumn glade]

you're not simming them at same ilvl for one and pyrotechnic is bis stats

[hazy breach]

Well its 3 ilvls higher unupgraded

But it also doesnt really matter much

[small spruce]

8k dps for 3 ilvl?

[hazy breach]

Its just different stats

[autumn glade]

melee dps really likes weapon ilvl lol

[swift tinsel]

Run the droptimizer at max upgraded level instead of as it drops

[small spruce]

I'll run it now with max upgrades, just seemed odd so had to ask around 😛

[broken swallow]

really confused they didn't revert the sectech nerf

I'm skeptical theres going to be as much downtime as apparently they expect?

[autumn glade]

I expect it's gonna be down longer than they expect lol

[golden kelp]

how come it's recommended to send the trinket with Shadowstrike rather than Sectech?

[small spruce]

actually crazy, when they now are same ilvl it sims 1,6k dps more (PND that is) xD Trinkets still seems fucked, but I guess HoC still stays bis even tho the sims are completly fucked with trinkets xD

[swift tinsel]

there just aren't good trinkets

[hazy breach]

Why would the sims be fucked with trinkets

Theres just no good trinkets

[small spruce]

These three for instance, sims this high

While HoC

[swift tinsel]

they had to change house just so we'd have a 1.5min that wasn't 99% useless

look at what they'd replace

top trinkets replace a passive

vs house which I'm assuming is replacing transmitter

[kind bluff]

That Sim shows u using 2 on use

[vale pine]

does not matter much, its easier to just send it with cds

[kind bluff]

That is the issue

It's using hoc and transmitter

[mint swift]

True

[swift tinsel]

p sure its transmitter and contract

[mint swift]

Bro imagine living in a house of cards

The bill must be low

[hazy breach]

Ye theres also like 3 from dungeons, 2 from delves and the crafted ones

That sim pretty much identical

[small spruce]

How do I get it to show with correct setup? cuz when i unhide the variations it shows basically the same

[hazy breach]

Wdym correct setup

[half comet]

So if cp rules are 6+ everytime but ur in dance u got 5 cp and one finisher left u still clicking shadowstrike?

[hazy breach]

You want a 90s trinket

Its either transmitter or house of cards

[small spruce]

nvm, too much on my mind.... ofc it's replacing 1 on use and one passive

xD

mbmb

[lilac stag]

You basically want HoC if you’re tired of playing trinket games

[small spruce]

yy, 100%, i just didn't understand the sims with the initial numbers that showed, but makes sense that it would just sim the swaps vs your current on use/passive

well, ty for the replies ❤️

[quick swan]

Transmitter will surely cop another nerf soon

[lilac stag]

doubtful. Were the last it’s that good for afaik

guess we shall see tomorrow

[vale pine]

you are probably better off using top gear, therea re text files you can copy and paste from #tc-research

[small spruce]

ty, i'll do that aswell!

[tranquil garden]

shadow-binding ritual knife, can it drop from all delves?

[swift tinsel]

yep

[tranquil garden]

alright cool

[swift tinsel]

pretty sure the pool is all-delve wide

otherwise hero track from the vault

[tranquil garden]

so spam r8 bountifuls, hope it drops from vault or a map

[swift tinsel]

yep that's pretty much the play

[keen dome]

Only one map a week

[swift tinsel]

I need to burn 100 keys next season to get the 250 bountiful achiev

[keen dome]

Same..

[swift tinsel]

the only delve achievement I didn't get last season lol

[oak rune]

What does the golden key do

[swift tinsel]

what golden key

[jaunty heath]

JPC is in Dornogal

Is he coming back?

[keen dome]

There's an achievement reward for some Do A Lot of Delves one

[swift tinsel]

he asked about dungeon sims earlier, you missed it

[keen dome]

Which gives a Golden Key item

[jaunty heath]

no way

[swift tinsel]

Oh, the cosmetic one

[jaunty heath]

h o l y

[keen dome]

Dunno what it'll be used for. Might be a transmog?

So you can be Kingdom Hearts in woW

[swift tinsel]

Yeah it's a back cosmetic piece

[keen dome]

Haha that rules

[swift tinsel]

#subtlety message

[solar charm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[golden kelp]

gotcha, assuming I wouldn't mind sending it like that. What's the benefit of doing so?

[vale pine]

you aim for the effect to be up during cooldowns

both ways would guarantee that

[spare quiver]

Guys u use symbols when the last just finish?

[grizzled bobcat]

Hello boys, i've been practising on dummies for the last day and i can't get my cds back on time reliably, is there any RNG involved or just git gud?
Currently i'm doing:
Flag Blades 2 Dances 2 SoD 2 SecTec cds
1 Dance 1 SoD 1 SecTec
1 Dance 1 SoD 1 SecTec
Flag Blades 2 Dances 2 SoD 2 SecTec cds
1 Dance 1 SoD 1 SecTec
And repeating that

[sand ore]

I took symbols off my bar

I only press shuriken throw

[lilac stag]

Which guide suggests that?

[vale pine]

you use symbols for secret techniques

you want to play around supercharger

[spare quiver]

ty

[jaunty heath]

you dont have skyfury buff on dummies

which helps a lot

[grizzled bobcat]

True

Gonna call a friend and i'll try with the buff

[mortal trout]

2 dances with major cooldowns, then 2 dances without major cooldowns, then wait for 2minute trinket to come back to go 2 major cd dances again!?

[keen dome]

Sub doesn't want to be using a 2 minute trinket, ideally. Our cooldowns are 1:30, so we want a on use trinket to line up with that.

[vale pine]

the problem is, you can't align them well to 90 secs

but a 2 minute damage trinket is perfectly fine as 2nd trinket

its just transmitter/house of cards + X

[keen dome]

The cursed imp telephone...

[steel horizon]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[vale pine]

[sour forum]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

probably should put a season 2 upgrade list there

[keen dome]

That'd be rad

[mortal trout]

comin from ass, only have skardyn qq

[fathom adder]

"as for sub it is likely to be stronger because how dungeons work than expected" what does that mean exactly? what makes it stronger?

[vale pine]

rip^

[mortal trout]

but the 2x cd, 2 without cd dances is right

!?

[bleak night]

you should be using actual bis trinkets like me

[keen dome]

I'd guess: more downtime, more RP moments, more time for us to get dance / symbols / SecTec up. Good packs, etc.

[oak rune]

It means op as fuk

Jk

[lucid jackal]

@tepid trellis me booting up sub rogue for this upcoming raid

[mortal trout]

But the rotarion 2x wirh cds, 2x wirhout cds and then wait till cds are rdy is right yeah?

[twilit phoenix]

holy shit jpc posted earlier

guess harvard is on break rn or something

[oak rune]

I’m using skardyns regardless over transmitter just too lazy

[keen dome]

Yeah. 2x Dance in CD's (With a SecTec Each). Two between in the first non-burst. Then 2x again. Then I believe it's just one. and it cycles.

[mortal trout]

Thanks mate

[keen dome]

It's all about packing in the damage as much as possible.

[ornate heron]

in aoe, is it not worth it to get more stacks for Danse before you sec tec?

i see its the first finisher you press after all your cds

but that would send it with the least amount of danse stacks? just wondering! thanks guys

[hazy breach]

No

You need to use sectech asap so your unseen blades fit within your dance

[keen verge]

Any cheatsheet as to when we swap our old tier set (639) or we just sim as we get new pieces?

[ornate heron]

what is unseen blades? sorry im noob

[earnest flower]

Any place i can go to get some macros for Sub. I just want to see if my macros make sense and what everone else is doing

[bleak night]

he said the m word

get him

[lilac stag]

We don’t use macros as sub

This is it:

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[earnest flower]

ah ok thats not what i am doing lol

[lilac stag]

Can use a Sectech CB macro for second cast of Sectech in flag window but you need Sectech bound separately

[slate lantern]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[hazy breach]

Trickster passive

Or well, the unseen blades from disorienting strikes

Anyhow danse macabre is not something we care about or play around anymore

[bleak night]

are there any bugs we're aware of with shadowblades randomly doing giga damage

ive only had it happen twice that ive noticed and only in open world or old content

so it might be a scaling thing

[hazy breach]

Yep scaling thing

[keen dome]

I've seen it happening in old content on and off the whole expansion. It's very sporadic though.

[bleak night]

one was in undermine though which is weird

[earnest flower]

I am doing this which seems fine i still have Symbols of death on a keybind tho

[keen dome]

Maybe it clipped a critter or something and did something weird

[bleak night]

rip that rat

[earnest flower]

it is tho lol

[ashen terrace]

Putting symbols in there is a little weird if you wanna precast it before sec tec

[earnest flower]

its off the GD so figure cant hurt right. saves me a button press. I get what you mean tho if you want to get the CD rolling

I might take it off if i get more comf. with it

[lilac stag]

Did you play Fatebound assa?

[earnest flower]

nope

[rough mirage]

Didn’t realize we don’t recommend macro cold blood secret tech anymore. Why is that ,if someone has time to explain to me.

[autumn glade]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[autumn glade]

You can still have it macrod but, you’d need a naked sectec on your bar somewhere too or using modifiers, whatever your preference is

[rough mirage]

Yeah it was the experience I had like cold blood wasn’t being used at the right time

[distant plinth]

If you delay it at the opener for the second sechtech, does it always realign correctly after that?

[molten citrus]

ye cause you can just hold it

[distant plinth]

So you'd just use a naked sechtech bind once and then the normal macroed one?

[autumn glade]

Like it says in the cb command, you lose out on casts overall but, you get more damage for always having it for second cast

[molten citrus]

like you don't even have to get a usage in between CDs iirc from what Stealthi told me

sometimes you can squeeze in a use between flags but afaik you don't have to

[swift tinsel]

yeah unless you can guarantee consistently that you don't mess it up between flags its not worth it

[molten citrus]

if that's what you wanna do sure

[tranquil garden]

S*** I need to get some bling transmog before our first rain on Thursday

Been focusing on gear but I forgot what was truly important

[swift tinsel]

mariachi

[distant plinth]

I guess it's better to just train to not use any macro at all...

[molten citrus]

Some people use 2 sec tech binds

[autumn glade]

just personal preference, I have a naked sectec and a cb sectec macro

[molten citrus]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it

[swift tinsel]

It's a simplification that doesn't really have a downside as long as you use it correctly

[distant plinth]

Do some people use a bind with sd/symbols together as well? (While keeping a single sd and symbols bind for the second sechtech during flag burst)

[lucid jackal]

There is no point in that

Genuinly the only macro u should have is a sectec CB macro
Every other macro is bad

[distant plinth]

Roger

[molten citrus]

Trinket/pot macro is okay

But that’s about it

[swift tinsel]

Oh yeah those are fine

Like any 16 second trinket I’m adding to blades unless its a mini game one

[distant plinth]

Do you macro pot+ trinket with sb? Or keep it separate? Or another spell?

I racial with Sb but not sure about trinket/pot

[swift tinsel]

Pot I had with flag bc it’s a 30 second buff but I might move it

[hollow spear]

I think I will macro pot with SB

might be able to squeeze my dance after the opener into pot

[maiden oar]

how over is it for me if my rogue does not have transmitter and i cannot guarantee a house of cards, should i just play a different spec instead?

[bleak night]

just go s3

[distant plinth]

Is symbols prepull the new standard?

[molten citrus]

if you have enough time yes

[hollow spear]

might as well uninstall

just symbols right after you res

to at least guarantee the supercharger stacks

[maiden oar]

no...

[maiden oar]

no......

[molten citrus]

you'll be a few % behind, just depends on the content you're doing

[maiden oar]

mostly concerned about raid performance

[upbeat folio]

in shadowdance & symbol, after supercharge ends, if you shadowstrike and get 5cp, you gonna press shadowstrike again for last 2cp? thats wierd

[maiden oar]

if its sub 5% i can tolerate it probably

[molten citrus]

sim it and see

idr the exact %

those trinkets are bigly

[bleak night]

the running theme this season seems to be "all the trinkets suck" so i doubt its 5% to use a different one

[maiden oar]

maybe its a farm priory and play sin or craft 1h and play outlaw until dinar / i join a guild angle

i see

[molten citrus]

if you aren't in a guild and raiding mythic you'll prolly be fine without it for now

[distant plinth]

Not as bad as sylvanas dagger I hope?

[maiden oar]

yeah i wanna parse heroic to get into mythic since im other mmo refugee and i used to do their mythic equiv

so its a recruitment issue hehe

[hollow spear]

good luck parsing on sub

[warm marlin]

even if you get one you can't upgrade it anymore 🙂

[maiden oar]

ty

[hollow spear]

even with transmitter 😄

[molten citrus]

i don't even remember how much % sylv daggers were

i got fed hard with sylv daggers

[tepid trellis]

around 10% or so for both

[hoary lotus]

You can parse heroic with no hands bro

[molten citrus]

pretty sure i got mythic sylv dagger on my first kill

[maiden oar]

oh ok

[molten citrus]

and had heroics for prog

[maiden oar]

ok i wont worry so much then

[distant plinth]

Strange how they destroyed spymaster but not treacherous

[paper iron]

Sylv daggers

[hollow spear]

iirc sub is a bit of an outlier with transmitter

not sure about other classes, but I'd wager a guess that they would replace their mythic transmitter with a different heroic trinket

[twilit phoenix]

One less piece of gear to worry about

Myth track dagger in vault week one

Or heroic shadow knife

[patent crystal]

i want funny weapon again

[cerulean stream]

do we need to do like 8 delves and all that bs this week? like are the vault rewards tomorrow scaled?

[clever delta]

I want sub to be go to raid spec, unfortunately assa will overtake again

[bleak night]

dratnos said you bring a sub rogue though

so its confirmed

[brisk hornet]

hey guys, rather new to the spec, is it normal for the rotation to have these moments of downtime where I seem to have no resources coming in?

[quick swan]

Probably on the execute fights

[bleak night]

outside of cds you go afk

[twilit phoenix]

!design

[brisk hornet]

good to know, is this unique to rogue? Ive played many classes and specs but i either do 5 mil or I do 400k

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[bleak night]

change your music

watch some youtube

[edgy zenith]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[bleak night]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[clever delta]

If the execution fights are the important ones. Why even bother with sub

Just kill the spec already

[bleak night]

because dratnos said so

[brisk hornet]

Very clear lol, thanks guys

didnt assa get buffed? is it now better? 😄

[tepid trellis]

Assa in execute bearly does more than sub

[twilit phoenix]

[slate beacon]

im watching the dratnos vid rn

[tepid trellis]

in a full 5min execute sim

[slate beacon]

he's saying sub

[quick swan]

There is value in playing both and learning both

[sour forum]

Nah it will be like last season, 2-3 weeks on sub then assa gets 3 buffs

And we go back to assa

[clever delta]

No, I refuse to learn sub. Very hard spec

[quick swan]

It is

[bleak night]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tepid trellis]

sub all tier baby

all gas no brakes

[edgy zenith]

do NOT let guy see this

[sour forum]

Tag guy with the word dust

[clever delta]

Gotta finish tier before 3rd sub nerf and 4th assa buff

[sour forum]

So 2 weeks?

[tepid trellis]

sub sims under 2.5mil now, it would be kinda funny if sub gets another nerf

[clever delta]

+-

Real spec suppose to sim 2.8 now

[paper iron]

below 3m it s unplayable ngl

[sour forum]

With assa slightly underperforming atm, i expect em to buff it like crazy after rwf

[clever delta]

True

[swift tinsel]

If I don’t step into the raid and blink and kill the boss what’s the point

[paper iron]

cant wait for a 40% aura buff on outlaw 🥺

[sour forum]

Outlaw is waiting for another rework, where KS becomes an actual CD and the spec is finally viable

[midnight tulip]

Is there any reason to delay crafting a dagger this week with gilded crests? Seems safe to do asap

[swift tinsel]

Outlaw the most ethical damage spec wym

[paper iron]

actually cant be more ethical than outlaw

[sour forum]

Im still waiting for that outlaw prog tier

[swift tinsel]

You can’t cheese burst, your aoe is 100% reliant on your st

[paper iron]

outlaw will be a prog spec after the next rework where it will have 2mn bursts and downtime

aka

every class in the game

[sour forum]

Assa with guns

[swift tinsel]

Oh man another 2min spec lemme get my party hat!

[sour forum]

This should have been outlaws patch

[fathom gazelle]

is fuu sheet updated?

[twilit phoenix]

Make a 1.15 min spec

[sour forum]

With the gamba and tierset and fatebound

[bleak night]

make outlaw burst every 17 seconds but their keyboards turn off outside of that

[swift tinsel]

No that’s Dave

[sour forum]

U rtd, dont hit 5 buffs, wipe the raid

[twilit phoenix]

Just make outlaw coup bug baseline

[sour forum]

Cant wait to have 0 haste gear again

Then have to swap assa

It was great last time so ill do it again

[fathom gazelle]

i see the numbers on fuu sheet are diffrent i think its updated

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[crystal rain]

are we still running

focus lens embellishment?

[hazy breach]

Yes

But theyre all pissweak so it doesnt really matter

[crystal rain]

fair enough

figured maybe that first dagger thing from the first boss

could be good

[hazy breach]

What

[small juniper]

is it actually best one anything more than 1 target

[hollow spear]

Seems like writhing + ascension isn't even a thing anymore, at least in my sim

Might go straight for focusing lens

[frigid dragon]

Does anyone know how to work with plater scripting stuff. Can't figure out why my rupture tracker for sub isn't working, just duplicated my working one for assassination and changed the spell ID to the sub rupture and it still won't work

[hazy breach]

In dslice yes, could probably cook up something 0.05% better for mass aoe if you really wanted to

But like, i cant overstate how useless the embellishments are

[autumn glade]

check that you don't have it set to only load for assassination in the plater script load conditions

[hazy breach]

Most dont scale with ilvl

Were talking about the embellishments being worth 10-15 ilvls on your bracers

Its like 1/6 of the value it had in dragonflight

[hollow spear]

Yeah actually disgusting

[frigid dragon]

it isn't

[steel zinc]

We need buff and a working tier set

Just revert the nerfs

[hazy breach]

I would be incredibly surprised if sub gets a buff

Way more likely it goes the other way

[steel zinc]

We are dead after nerfs only in raid for the buff

[steel zinc]

Wdym all melee look better then rogue

Warrior looking like minimum 2

[autumn glade]

Can't say with certainty why you're having issues then - is it a script or a mod? Difference matters

[frigid dragon]

Script

I have it as 1943 for the Rupture

[steel zinc]

I am probably to dumb but how do you come to that conclusion?

In raid sub is very basic rn I think

[small juniper]

have u not seen sub dps week 1 if u get a weapon

sometimes like 20+% ahead of the rest

[lilac stag]

We fall off week 3

[autumn glade]

That Spell ID underneath definitely isn't 1943 lol

[frigid dragon]

I know, I deleted the wrong one before the screenshot. I tried it out by just typing in Rupture in the add trigger box

[fringe palm]

just swap to assa in week 3, will have two more 4% buffs by then

[frigid dragon]

But put it back to 1943 afterwards

[lilac stag]

Havoc prob close to sub first 2 weeks

[steel zinc]

Haha we are doomed with warrior being so strong

Also ret looking insane first weeks

[open vortex]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

no one actually plays rogue so gz on your raid spot

[autumn glade]

sent you a dm so we don't talk plater script stuff here

[blazing brook]

oh man im setting up my bars

and it seems i've ran out of keybinds

anything i can macro?

[twilit phoenix]

Get a sphincter-activated kegel controller

I use one and it’s great

[blazing brook]

🐢 huh

[young garnet]

I might be doomed, my CE guild asked me last second to switch to rogue. Sub being my spec of choice. Its over boys we're cooked

[solar geode]

how come you'e cooked

sub is cool 🙂

[young garnet]

I like it a lot but my brain isn't putting the puzzle fully together yet

I think the main thing i get tripped up on is CD usage mid fight

[lethal gale]

sub has a lot of rules but once you learn them it isnt over difficult

[young garnet]

i might dump a couple quick questions

[brisk hornet]

me too, why am i shit

2nd question, how does one go from being shit to not being shit

[young garnet]

• Should i be trying to hit a Symbols of death for every ST, or if i have ST up but no Shadowdance or Symbols do i just send it

[swift crest]

just say ill play rogue on the condition its assa spec

[brisk hornet]

i jsut went assa and i literally did 0 dmg, im sort of ok with sub, how does that work

felt like I had no weapons equipped

[lethal gale]

look at logs and copy what they do

[swift crest]

true. theres no going back after these 4mil+ openers on sub

[brisk hornet]

right? what went wrong, is assa supposed to built up its dmg ? longer uptime?

poison creep?

[swift crest]

it did everything better s1 i think not sure

[lethal gale]

the rule is you will always ST with every symbols but you dont just wanna send symbols because you always need 2 sod 2 symbols 2 st with cds

[ornate heron]

In aoe inside dance do you always build with SS?

[lilac stag]

Try putting poisons on your weapons

[patent crystal]

was there a sim with all the trinkets?

[hazy breach]

Yes shadowstrike does significantly more damage than shuriken storm (as trickster that is, but im assuming you are)

[ornate heron]

Yes I am trickster thank you

OUTSIDE of dance do you build with shuriken storm or do you try to get flawless form up with backstab so you can aoe evis?

[hazy breach]

At 7+ targets when you ideally want to BP you want to have every aoe dance be strike > sectech > shuriken storm > bp > continue to strike/bp

Just spam storm outside of dance

[ornate heron]

Kk ty eleem

Sorry the fuu guide was reading a bit confusing

[swift crest]

whats the deal with weapon master vs first dance in keys

i see conflicting guides

[lilac stag]

TFD is better

[hazy breach]

Weaponmaster does literally nothing on aoe

TFD does something

[lilac stag]

WM does less on boss fights than TFD in keys as well

So you take TFD and learn to stealth

[swift crest]

stealthi has his guide going WM on the method guide so was just wondering

[lilac stag]

For ST sure. For keys

maybe raccoon had lostark raiding on brain.

[tepid trellis]

i havent updated the string

[lilac stag]

see. Busy with lost ark.

Next question!

[rapid kite]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Sleep schedule back to normal?

[hexed dagger]

i’ve seen some guides say rotten on ST and others say Finality

which one is right?

[fierce cedar]

neither ||no clue||

[lilac stag]

Rotten

[hexed dagger]

kk

[lilac stag]

You could also sim it

[hexed dagger]

nah I have rogue geniuses to do that for me

[tepid trellis]

gonna try and sleep in 3 or so hours

[lilac stag]

Good luck!

[signal heath]

most important things you wish you thought about when learning sub?

[quick swan]

Curious about to see if Gally is going to be harder or easier than Ansurek week 1

For that sweet vault

[tepid trellis]

that i picked a hero class and not a rogue

[signal heath]

be like that some times.

[lilac stag]

That I should have rerolled classes

[signal heath]

the thumbnail is fire

why sub rogue not good this season?

[lilac stag]

To one that actually gets dev attention.

We’re one BP buff away from straight up misery

[signal heath]

all things ebb and flow my friend

i usually play outlaw lol

im learning sub again bc outlaw tits

[lilac stag]

I’m shocked

[shrewd lantern]

wait until they turbo buff sin

week 3

and stuck playing it another tier

[lilac stag]

Join the other degens invading

[signal heath]

i didnt play S1, DF3 was the last season i played, outlaw was bonkers.

was sin bis S1 M+ TWW?

week 3 lol?

[lilac stag]

It will be again

[signal heath]

i dont mind sin

outlaw>sin>sub for me lol

but i usually just play whats strongest, love rogue lol

[shrewd lantern]

think as a base spec

Sin is the best designed.

11.0.5 was when blizz decided "yeah envenom go brrr"

[jaunty heath]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[quick swan]

Remember when each spec had dance

What a nightmare

[shrewd lantern]

Not really sin it was just a 1min cd you pressed with kb.

And outlaw it was basically a worse 2nd vanish.

[quick swan]

I mean it didnt really add much complexity it was just shit thematically and wasnt necessary

[wicked urchin]

my brain is still trying to comprehend how to unmacro cold blood without my fingers exploding

[lucid jackal]

u make 2 macros

1 for with 1 without

U only use without in the cooldown cycles

[wicked urchin]

it's more that my keybinds have been inefficient so i have to rewire my brain to make it less awkward

i'll figure it out it'll just be a rough first few weeks

[lucid jackal]

valid

[slate lantern]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shrewd lantern]

I feel thats every season i play sub

[wicked urchin]

my binds were fine some time a while ago but fall apart with added button bloat

[shrewd lantern]

because some new interaction with sod/dance/blades changes

[lucid jackal]

the spec doesnt have that many buttons atm tho

[wicked urchin]

my binds are semi-cursed

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah sub doesnt have much bloat

especially since we lost needing to press snd ever

[wicked urchin]

i think it'll feel better for me when transmitters gone

[teal hemlock]

Don't think you get rid of transmitter until mythic House of Cards

[warped ferry]

Jokes on you i never got it

D:

[blazing brook]

man i wish there is a button to reset your cds so you can practice easier

[opal comet]

Hey guys, so i sustained 600k at ilvl 621 no tier, is that decent? im pretty new to sub

[jaunty umbra]

imagine not having a proper testing room after 20 years

[wicked urchin]

my pain rn

how big of a dps lost is it to cast blades with dance+SoD before the first sectech?

[blazing brook]

i added alt tab to my opener

🛌

[solemn creek]

Is secret tech shadow clone still randomly losing stacks?

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[modest delta]

am i tripping or why does BP just feel terrible

even a ton of targets

is it always just ST rotation perma?

[solemn creek]

At 7 and more target bp does more damage

[modest delta]

does or doesnt

[solemn creek]

Sry typo 😅

[modest delta]

even while in dance?

[solemn creek]

Outside of dance. Damage is whatever

Like its not that high

[solemn creek]

Yes. The difference is u ss in dance

And shuriken outside of dance

[austere tangle]

wats bis m+ embellishment the vers over 80% hp thing or this rando ST damage thing

[solemn creek]

Shadowstrike*

[austere tangle]

i have a disease

cuz i thought it was the vers thing but now im seeing some conflicting information

[opal comet]

How much dps should one be doing with 621 ilvl and no tier??

[austere tangle]

42

[solemn creek]

420

[opal comet]

420k??

[wicked urchin]

okay macro question

[opal comet]

ST im doing around 600-700k, last mythic i did over all i did 1.2mil over all

[wicked urchin]

could I do something like

#showtooltip
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=10 Symbols of Death, null

assuming i have symbols on its own

that way it'll cast both for the first cast of cds but wont cast symbols for the second usage

[modest delta]

feels like you're doing too much

[wicked urchin]

it's more that I had them macroed together before

[modest delta]

and also symbols is kinda situational after ur first dance i think so kinda hard to line up a timer

i did too

but learned it in a day, not too hard

[wicked urchin]

symbols has a dedicated key

[molten citrus]

embellishments this expansion are insanely weak

the vers one is fine

[wicked urchin]

i'm looking at logs and i haven't seen any scenarios this wouldn't work (yet)

[arctic heart]

do we have any good sub guide here for a quick look?

[slate lantern]

There's no number to shoot for, different dungeons and different comps will do different damage. Better to see how your cd windows were done/if you were holding on to them incorrectly

[slate lantern]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[slate lantern]

We have 3!

[arctic heart]

@slate lantern thanks my good sir

[austere tangle]

augment rune was insanely weak and yet everyone still put one on

if i can have .05% more dps ima take it

[molten citrus]

ye i know

[molten citrus]

you'd probably have to sim with your gear to be sure, but the Dawnthread/Duskthread Linings are likely your best bet for m+

[stable marlin]

Hey guys pardon if this is somewhere in the wowhead guide I couldnt find it, how many Sec Tecs can we get off in our opener within the flagellation buff window, I've been getting two but cant seem to get a third on a target dummy

as trickster

[wicked urchin]

not sure if it's why but

no skyfury remember

[cloud kestrel]

I think 2 is the limit atm, saw something about squeezing a third but involved a trick

[stable marlin]

for sure I may be misrembering I thought we were getting 3 at the beginning of the xpac, and right no skyfury could be a big contribution as to why im not getting close

[molten citrus]

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[molten citrus]

2

[stable marlin]

Ty I appreciate it

[tepid trellis]

they all kinda suck, but id wager the vers will be slightly better for AoE

[wicked urchin]

waiting for cds to reset on dummies is slowly ruining my life

[brazen steppe]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sudden bone]

!pandemic

[wicked jolt]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[finite citrus]

I use Luxthos WA package for sub but I feel like there should be something tracking faze other than on your target, is there a WA that shows when it's off cd and will be applied?

[spare grove]

Are the tier %s in the pin correct following the nerf?

Still 3% for 2p and 11% for 4p?

[opal comet]

Ok, yeah im kind of new. And i was opening wrong, i was going all CDs instead of the subsequent, slice n dice, vanish. rupture then go into CDs

[slate lantern]

yeah its just a practice and learn kind of spec, need to get that muscle memory up for the piano-esque opener

[opal comet]

yeah, i didnt realize had to get shadow blades first, then go into vanish and rupture, then into symbols, flang, dance, then reg rotation

Which i went on target dummy from around 650k-700k to 750k on a 6 minute timer

[edgy zenith]

okay, sooooo what's the final verdict on rotation changes? send ruptures instead of evis with 25s left on flag?

[tame terrace]

any rotation changes going into the season?

[edgy zenith]

and is that only with 4set, or 2set as well?

[tame terrace]

oh its in pins nvm

[edgy zenith]

we aren't gaming tier set anymore after the nerfs? @molten citrus

[finite citrus]

Anyone able to help with this? I found something but it doesn't track resets from auto attacks.

[molten citrus]

nope

that plan has been dead for a while now

[frigid dragon]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[edgy zenith]

yeah I stopped keeping up to date with rotation stuff bc shit was changing so much

ty

[frigid dragon]

Is the wowhead page up to date for rotation stuff?

[edgy zenith]

correct, no way to track unseen blade reset with Thousand Cuts.

[molten citrus]

ye, make sure you also check out the Optimization section etc

[edgy zenith]

only way you can for sure know you will apply fazed is if you sectech, or next 2 backstabs/shadowstrikes after sectech

[lucid jackal]

transmitter nerf

[molten citrus]

?

[shut ridge]

let's fucking go

[molten citrus]

oh shit

https://www.wowhead.com/news/treacherous-transmitter-nerfed-again-by-10-375508

[shut ridge]

rip bozo

[molten citrus]

it didn't show up for me at first

another 10%

[molten citrus]

@random hare

[dusty totem]

Is it not just effectivly nerfing sub with respect to other classes tho untill we all get hero track house of cards

[warm marlin]

[edgy zenith]

Sin is in boys, pack it up

maybe next tier 😦

[molten citrus]

sub will still be fine with a new weapon early on

[shut ridge]

I mean, sure, but this is one nerf I can live with

[molten citrus]

now you just actually want a heroic HoC

[edgy zenith]

so does every other class though :/

it's cooked

[muted girder]

is it looking like you will still use transmitter until mythic cards even if you only ever got hero track transmitter?

[dusty totem]

I agree was super cringe that if u did not get 639 u would be super behind

[tropic nimbus]

it was just nerfed again

[molten citrus]

no

[foggy egret]

!SIMS

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[chrome palm]

its never been more over

[rugged condor]

https://tenor.com/view/frieren-falling-on-snow-frieren-falls-on-snow-frieren-faceplant-on-snow-sousou-no-frieren-frieren-tired-gif-2984850760477554558

[paper iron]

i now feel good to never have dropped it

[late marsh]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[spice matrix]

good bye sweet transmitter

[random hare]

https://tenor.com/view/aintnoway-gif-27058877

[left ledge]

funniest thing is

we prob still use transmitter until last 2 mythic

so this is just another nerf to sub

[elfin hound]

finally no shit mini game, looking for your task in 20 ppl with a giant boss and 100m spells

[random hare]

Wait till they realize buffing new trinkets is the solution

Not the other way around

[left ledge]

i dont even think they realize our tier is bugged

actually idek what they're aware of

pretty sure they just spin a wheel

[elfin hound]

whats still bugged about tier?

[spice matrix]

[molten citrus]

Dropping stacks when it shouldn’t and something else idr

[left ledge]

sectec doesnt benefit from it

and coup drops stacks

[elfin hound]

[random hare]

Ya

[left ledge]

devs probably looked in here for 0.5 seconds

saw people who looked new to the channel

[random hare]

U basically have more than double the chances of removing all ur stacks

[left ledge]

hit us with a nerf

nah but fr this transmitter nerf is just stupid

new trinkets need to be stronger, not old trinkets made weaker

idk why blizz always does this dumb shit

instead of making you feel more powerful

they just make you weaker

[random hare]

The devs responsible for season 2

Are the dumbest people on the planet

Literally every season 2 is fucking bad

Holy fuck like why do we keep giving them things that they should do but they end up doing the opposite

Fuck blizzard dude they are full of monkeys it was exactly the same in dragonflight s2

[late marsh]

Can someone tell me why after vanishing into shadowstrike doesnt work on opener?

[pure jay]

tell us how you really feel

[random hare]

Trinkets that don’t even kill a critter

[molten citrus]

no u

[random hare]

What do u want blue name guy

[pure jay]

huh

[random hare]

a lot of people are gonna quit s2 again

And come back in s3

[elfin hound]

hate is real

[random hare]

It happens every expansion

[pure jay]

idk even know why my name is blue

😦

[random hare]

Idk what to tell you

Like

I reported it on ptr that all the trinkets suck balls

And they end up buffing useless trinkets from being extremely useless to useless

So they aren’t gonna do shit in both cases

[hard trellis]

what is the reason we dont macro symbols to shadowdance ?

[random hare]

Because of

!symbols

Idk the command but

[hard trellis]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[molten citrus]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[random hare]

U kinda want ur symbols to align with ur secret technique

[warm veldt]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/treacherous-transmitter-nerfed-again-by-10-375508?utm_source=discord-webhook

[night rampart]

you dont symbols right as you use your 2nd dance in opener, you want to symbols only when sectech is on <10 sec

[warm veldt]

READ EM AND WEEP

MY BROTHER

[molten citrus]

LOOOL

[random hare]

NONONO THAT WAS THIS WEEK

NOT LAST

?!?!?!

[night rampart]

so sectech is empowered by supercharge

[pure jay]

its just a trinket

lol

[random hare]

Yea

[rugged condor]

your s2 tierset has a chance to delete winning streaks on finisher casts, you dont want to lose these stacks in ur cds. if you're in dance you dont lose stacks ever, so you chain dances 0.1 in cds, meaning you'll likely do dance-finish-build-finish-symbols+build @hard trellis

[night rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/im-doing-my-part-serious-stare-gif-11979677

[random hare]

U want ur first sectec and last sectec to be empowered by supercharger

And they don’t usually align with that

[elfin hound]

GOTTEM

[brave moth]

I am trying to add few buffs I want to track for my sub rogue. Is there a list with all spells and buffs I can check. Cba pressing spell remembering the correct name and what it does and then adding it to plater

[broken swallow]

What do I want to farm to replace transmitter now? Or is it still not nerfed enough?

[oak rune]

Delves

[hard trellis]

what is the buffed called that supercharges finsiher

[molten citrus]

its been 10 minutes man

[molten citrus]

it isn't a buff

[rustic raven]

all it took for sub to die

[hard trellis]

yea it doesnt give a buff

so i cant track it with a weak aura

[molten citrus]

you can, but its a little pointless

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[molten citrus]

i believe some of these have an indicator for it

[left ledge]

@devs can we get another sub rogue nerf

please

[rugged condor]

?????

[left ledge]

think we need another 5-10% nerf

[rugged condor]

another 5-10% nerf and we play bench

[brave moth]

Doubt transmitter nerf will "kill" us

[rugged condor]

[oak rune]

Is sub doing that well to get two hotfix nerfs before patch?

Doubt

[dusty totem]

I just hope that somehow sub won't be good in rwf so we can get the buff we deserved

[night rampart]

they realized we cant have big pps and big numbers, so they fixed one of those