#subtlety

1 messages Ā· Page 191 of 1

tribal blade
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it's gonna be extreme downtime followed by huge burst

lilac stag
#

watch kidney shot drop the 4pc

wild hornet
#

that would be

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catastrophic

void hound
#

yes thank you

austere zodiac
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
feral barn
#

Do we ever backstab during dance to gain a stack of Danse Macabre ?

vale pine
feral barn
#

Ok thanks

smoky vault
#

Trying to map it with the WAIS curve, smart.

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But tbh, not far being wrong ...

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Try with the Kruger's one now !

solemn lance
#

Quick question cue related. Inama assuming if it comes up outside shadow dance and sech tech I hold on hitting any eviscerate until I can dance. Maybe refresh rupture in that time since it seems our damage outside cds is so low?

signal heath
#

damn @vale pine, I havent played sub in years and have been off and on with WoW due to work (growing up sucks)... but ive been lowkey stressed thinking i have to learn sub again. (my push seasons i usually am like 2/3 key levels below the highest key done with my RL group and usually get the first 3/6 bosses on mythic) I got to say, your wowhead guide is very well done, i can tell you out alot of time into it, had to give you your credit! the explantion tab in the rotation section is priceless.

tribal blade
#

just play normally

smoky vault
#

Once you're confortable with the burst, that the difficulty of those type of specs actually (like fire mage ), judging when you can / cannot throw skills related to CD timers. This takes a bit of practice. I tend to notice I can get back ST in Time if I stop at 15/20 sec before flag which bould be the interval to rupture

random hare
#

omegalul the guy who parses 50 probably doesnt miss gcd's but presses everything wrong and never learns

mental kettle
#

whoever designed the car driving in the new zone should never be allowed to touch any vehicle ever

tawny plume
#

So how bad was those class tuning for this week?

solemn lance
wispy zephyr
#

Whats the dmgtype of nimble flurry?

hazy breach
#

Physical

sick jackal
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
tribal blade
#

would be cool if nimble applied FW to targets hit

solemn lance
#

Last noob question hopefully. Are the supercharged combo points from symbols only the first finisher after hitting it? For some reason I thought it was tye next 2 finishers

hazy breach
#

Its two

solemn lance
#

Not in game atm. OK great

solemn lance
sick jackal
#

hey guys what do we think we will craft for first wek of the season?

lilac stag
#

dagger

sick jackal
#

and do we have a cata charge day 1 this season?

lilac stag
#

šŸ”®

wild hornet
#

yeah scath use that magic ball

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and answer the person

sick jackal
#

yeah scath what does my future look like do you see big parses?

lilac stag
#

nope, no one plays the spec so you're fucked

small juniper
sick jackal
sick jackal
lilac stag
#

pvp, aotc, m+

sick jackal
#

is it the ksm 1.6k in pvp or hero raid boss kill?

hazy breach
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get m+ score (2k?), kill last boss hc or get 1.8k in pvp

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or whatever the cutoffs are

sick jackal
#

that gives cata charge? i though it gave a tier

small juniper
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changed this season

sick jackal
#

so do we get 2 charges or 1?

hazy breach
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1

sick jackal
#

sadge

celest wyvern
steel zinc
#

2k rio is like every key on 8 or?

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wasnt it like 6 keys +10 timed

sick jackal
#

i think its 7 timed

swift tinsel
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Not even, I think I got it with a mix of 6ā€™s and 7ā€™s

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Itā€™s very achievable

keen dome
#

Yeah, you can do it with like 7's and 8's

hollow snow
#

when do the mage tariffs get announced

swift tinsel
#

Mage Training Arc is over, now their Main Character Arc begins

whole abyss
#

@swift tinsel - did you ever make that quick sub guide šŸ˜„

vale pine
celest wyvern
#

!wa

wicked joltBOT
void hound
vale pine
quick swan
#

How many more tier lists you reckon Petko can release before patch day

smoky vault
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Has many has business model is winning

spiral pagoda
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ok im quite dumb and either i legit cant read or maybe both idk cryy (trickster)
do i legit just spam BS/SS + Evis SecTec in dance until 7-8 mobs are infront of me and i switch to shuriken + BP?
and i guess the same is outside dance just that i replace BS/SS with shuriken?

lilac stag
#

in dance, strike, storm, strike strike strike

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out of dance storm

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we dont stab

spiral pagoda
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i assume in between each strike/storm finisher right pepegaThumbsUp

lilac stag
#

no

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sorry yes.

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read it as alternating storm and strike

swift tinsel
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Plus my voice is scuffed from being sick

spiral pagoda
#

to proc nimble flurry right?

lilac stag
#

stike is just way stronger than pressing storm, storm is only used as second bulider in dance to spread Find Weakness

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which guide are you reading?

swift tinsel
#

You donā€™t have to worry about nimble being up in dance bc sectech provides it every time

spiral pagoda
#

i read the pins, but the info to just spam single target up to 6 targets i just dont get what exactly you do when certain scenarios are up

lilac stag
#

!guide

wicked joltBOT
lilac stag
#

you're not going to figure the spec out by pins alone. fwiw

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the wowhead guide has pictures for exactly what you asked

lilac stag
vale pine
quick swan
twin surge
#

is it a bad idea to macro sec tec and symbols? since we dont want to macro sd and symbols.

lilac stag
#

yes

quick swan
#

Need sep binds

lilac stag
#

sectech is not always the first cast

swift tinsel
lilac stag
swift tinsel
#

lmao

sterile kiln
#

#showtooltip
/cast Symbols of Death
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shadowstrike

lilac stag
#

delete

#

that

#

now

swift tinsel
#

F tier

sterile kiln
swift tinsel
#

Too Bad for the List

full acorn
#

Thistle tea on Sub is this viable?

lilac stag
#

no

glacial eagle
full acorn
#

Its just so boring waiting for SOD to get of cd

lilac stag
#

that's the spec

swift tinsel
#

just watch the sectech and tier nerf is enough to make tea beat cb

lilac stag
#

enjoy it or dont

swift tinsel
#

cruel twist of fate

lilac stag
#

pressing backstab or storm isn't exactly exciting

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lol

swift tinsel
#

We're the shotgun blast of dopamine spec, not the steady drip

lilac stag
#

practice jumpingn and flipping

swift tinsel
#

hell yeah

steep raven
#

!sod

wicked joltBOT
#

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

proven plover
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ah shit trickster is F tier

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well it was a good run

swift tinsel
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that's what I'm saying, dreams crushed

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maybe it gets reworked into something like Bandit or Scoundrel and moves up a few spots

lilac stag
#

feast on the tears of people trying to make out of CDs sub feel good

swift tinsel
#

that's what they steep Thistle Tea in I hear

hazy breach
#

Sectech nerf is technically a tea buff

swift tinsel
#

thats why I'm worried lol

lilac stag
hazy breach
#

Its only 5%, shouldnt matter

lilac stag
vale pine
clever delta
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Only reason I was surprised by this nerf is that I though sub isn't on top of performing specs

meager apex
#

If I'm sitting on 5 CP and only have one GCD left in my dance windows, do I send a finisher ?

clever delta
#

Apparently we are

hazy breach
glacial eagle
meager apex
#

thx

lilac stag
oak rune
#

sub players want to pump hard on the old raid on old timings for the last week before raid

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now we have no spec to play

lilac stag
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you're playing assa peeposhrug

proven plover
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at least they had fun for a week

swift tinsel
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Imma have fun every day

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bc I don't have to play deathstalker

proven plover
#

valid point

swift tinsel
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and nerfs don't change gameplay

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so I'm chillin

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the moment they do and trickster isn't fun, I'm dooming and then probably still playing it

oak rune
#

now i know why you guys hate this guy

image.png
#

had to look him up

swift tinsel
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is that fucking Izen

oak rune
#

yea

golden kelp
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Is there some bug with TFD in PTR m+? sometimes it starts counting insanely late after a pull

mental kettle
#

W H omegalul ?

lilac stag
hazy breach
#

Ye thats just how it is

clever delta
#

Damn i just realised that I liked season set bonus and will miss it

golden kelp
#

ah ok, just a thing with combat in general or bug?

clever delta
#

Season 1

hazy breach
acoustic lodge
#

I wish people would stop these bait tier list for views

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It really skews the community perspective

swift tinsel
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I'm gonna become a react streamer and just react to shitty tier lists

acoustic lodge
#

haha fuck it

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do it for the views

swift tinsel
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the cognitive dissonance would be too real lol

fallen fable
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Heya guys sorry to ask ! maybe some ppl asked much before me , is gonna be sin or sub meta for st ? aoe ? on raid and M+ ? ( actually ) ik its gonna change again with patchs

steel zinc
next fjord
#

Play what you want

steel zinc
#

gotta sim that

hazy breach
#

No

fallen fable
lilac stag
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sub is never meta.

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unless it's broken

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then it gets nerfed

swift tinsel
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meta isn't figured out for months

keen dome
vale pine
fallen fable
#

thank you fuu

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was for early raid ect to be sure

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that i can still play ass

next fjord
#

I'm getting my best numbers with sub so I'm playing that one

lilac stag
#

the fear of playing sub continues

plush roost
#

Sub is scary

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Bush man

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Looking me in the eyes

lilac stag
#

dave is not scary

swift tinsel
#

only time I didn't wanna play sub was when coup had the animation lock and it felt shitty

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dave can't be scary when he's dead

plush roost
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Look at him

swift tinsel
plush roost
#

Staring menacingly

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Longingly

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Seductively

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I mean uh

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Yeah coup animation lock

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So scary amiright guys

clever delta
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good people of this channel

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what gem combo we play in circlet after neef

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nerf

swift tinsel
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can probably sim

hollow spear
#

We don't put any gems out of protest

solemn creek
#

Killed me on last boss of ara kara. Wasnt paying attention to it

hollow spear
#

I might or might not have inted my raid with it

solemn creek
#

Happy its gone

swift tinsel
#

I didn't mind it dracthyr_shrug

plush roost
#

I almost failed a trial cause coup dash

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Fuck u web blades

solemn creek
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Ouch !

plush roost
#

(im joking it wouldn't have mattered)

solemn creek
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Why u die to webblade

plush roost
#

Random proc into coup dash true combo

vale pine
clever delta
#

tunderlord no longer bis?

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sry i missed that on phone

vale pine
#

^ you can look at the simulation of gem combinations i linked earlier

clever delta
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i simmed myself and thunderlord only 550 dps ahead

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so i just go fathom for aoe value i guees

steel zinc
vale pine
#

done

clever delta
onyx sinew
#

hey . is assa better now after tuning or sub still clears

rain stratus
next fjord
onyx sinew
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im looking for the better one actually ^^

rain stratus
#

The one you play better is probably better

next fjord
#

The real answer is Outlaw

grave delta
#

the answer is never outlaw

next fjord
#

Coward

grave delta
#

ye gl getting ur uptime when the boss makes u run on a treadmill in game because u wont do it irl

obtuse shard
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but the sheet is showing outlaw best dps between 3 specs PirateHeart

next fjord
#

Outlaw sim higher therefore play Outlaw

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Boom

smoky vault
#

Yet not parsing highest "WTF happens ?!" PogO

steel zinc
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
smoky vault
#

Outlaw was parsing 1st on the PTR junk or reverb boss can't remember apparently. But that's it. Often 1/2 boss where outlaw shines. Remember vuljin in BFA

vale pine
smoky vault
#

Like u needed 4 outlaw rogues on this one

steel zinc
#

you dont play really for the first bosses tbh

smoky vault
#

Sure

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Hands on

void hound
#

outlaw always sims high

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should tell you something about the accuracy of comparing sims across specs and classes

lilac stag
oak rune
#

outlaw requires high uptime on boss to reset cds

bleak night
#

imagine needing 2 sessions

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i open on a dummy once and master the spec

lilac stag
#

yeah CDR doesnā€™t play into sub at all? omegalul

oak rune
#

not nearly as much

fierce cedar
#

do we know how much of a nerf % the nerfs are

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oh never mind

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i saw pins

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lol

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dont mind me

midnight tulip
#

is there a good way to track supercharged combo points? Don't see a buff and weak aura i was using doesnt seem to show it?

swift tinsel
#

do you use a combo point WA

oak rune
#

wa

fierce cedar
#

it was a smaller nerf than i thought

swift tinsel
#

otherwise it shows on your regular cps

fierce cedar
#

sub should still be pretty good then right

swift tinsel
clever delta
#

man why is still undermine giga lagging

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are they sleeping in blizzard or what

midnight tulip
#

yeah combo point wa but cant get the trigger to work since there is no buff

oak rune
#

dont worry it will stop lagging 4 weeks in

hazy breach
swift tinsel
#

you add conditions

hazy breach
#

Its not a buff, but you can track it through the cp

swift tinsel
#

ye

lilac stag
#

Ohh eleem got a screenie

novel plaza
rain stratus
swift tinsel
#

can also do the cp background and/or fill if you don't want the border

image.png
novel plaza
#

based on the ring nerfs are we still going for legendary skipper still or swap to windsinger?

vale pine
novel plaza
midnight tulip
#

working now thanks everyone!

lilac stag
swift tinsel
#

no u

random hare
dapper cradle
tranquil garden
#

Best gems are 4 different colors and movement anyway!

lilac stag
#

3 different colors. Fuck out of here with haste.

tranquil garden
#

Little bit of a bad secondary for 2% move speed? I'll take that any day

hollow spear
#

Wdym bad? Crit is good

stiff stirrup
#

How do we get FW debuff in aoe as trickster? Are we supposed to shuriken storm once in dance?

flint sundial
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
swift tinsel
torn storm
swift tinsel
#

so you Strike - Sectech - Storm - BP at 7+ targets

stiff stirrup
#

And if 5 target? Storm - Evis?

swift tinsel
#

you wouldn't need to storm

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the FW is for BP

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at 5 you just do your regular ST

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Strike - Sectech - Strike - Evisc

muted plaza
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
winged prawn
#

Why the hell is mag orc simming 1,3% higher then nelf on my char ?

twilit phoenix
#

Buffs

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So it simmed higher for some people

winged prawn
#

damn even tho its on a 2 min CD

lilac stag
#

Weā€™re a burst spec with 2 good secondaries. It buffs either one.

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So even using it as a 3 min racial it trucks

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and the defensives are not bad at all

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flat dmg racial are ā€œmidā€ on sub

dusty totem
#

drarf is only around 0.2% worse but will ofc mean less burst

twilit phoenix
#

Ye dwarf is better for outlaw

#

But marginally. Orc/morc has a larger benefit for sub/sin

dusty totem
#

mostly for sin tho cause 2 min

lilac stag
#

Youā€™re underestimating how good it is with second Sectech hit

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it just lines up better for assa

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for DM

edgy zenith
#

i don't htink it does

twilit phoenix
edgy zenith
#

you'd have to delay flag

hazy breach
#

What

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if you macro your racial to blades

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It lines up perfectly

lilac stag
#

Why would I delay anything?

edgy zenith
#

orc racial is 2m, no?

hazy breach
#

Yes

lilac stag
#

It literally lines up with blades

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You treat it as a 3 min

dusty totem
#

only every other time tho

edgy zenith
#

oh, I thought you meant on second sectech of 2nd flag

hazy breach
#

Ye and its still like 0.5% better than dwarf

lilac stag
#

ā€œOnlyā€ kekw

dusty totem
#

so u lose value but whatever pkay what u want

hazy breach
#

I mean ye you "lose value" but you gain dps

dusty totem
#

Yes

twilit phoenix
#

But dps = value

lilac stag
#

so you gain

#

New math is hard

dusty totem
#

i only said that maghar is more better for sin then for sub

hazy breach
#

Its not though

lilac stag
#

Itā€™s not

rain stratus
#

jeez

hazy breach
#

Sub is way burstier

lilac stag
#

folks really donā€™t get stacking CDs in wow

cedar willow
#

Did some nerds run sims for new nerfs ? Am I still excited to play sub?

lilac stag
#

Pins nerd

solemn creek
#

its more of a "why" then of a "how much"

#

also sin buff way too low but.. they are looking at rogue now, thats the big message

cedar willow
#

I mean we do prefer small adjustment to hammer of gods

brisk onyx
#

Why doesnā€™t TFD always start counting down after leaving combat? In fact, it often takes 8 to 9 seconds to reset

hazy breach
brisk onyx
hazy breach
#

Its still really good

#

Might catch another, but we'll see

cedar willow
#

I just like big secret technique numbers

sullen hare
#

I also like big techs and I cannot lie

plush roost
#

I wish coup was one damage instance

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Hitting a fat supercharged 10cp envenom just

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Man thats the stuff

broken swallow
#

Tbh, as a flavor re roller, I don't know where you're supposed to get dopamine from the spec except massive sec techs

plush roost
#

I get dopamine for about 16 seconds every 1:30

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:^)

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Thats like a 16.5% dopamine uptime

broken swallow
#

Outside of the sec tech hits, I feel like I'm just playing an enh shaman for those 16 seconds, and then I go back to feeling like I'm assa with DM and KB on CD.

plush roost
#

Ye thats rogue for ya

full acorn
#

When do you start using BP instead of evis

plush roost
#

7+ targets with findweakness on them

sullen hare
#

^ for trickster. Deathstalker target count is lower

plush roost
#

Ah true, deathstalker just bp's on 2+ targets

winged prawn
#

so we only need to apply Find Weakness in AOE if we AOE with Powder ?

plush roost
#

Yeah, you're wasting a global doing storm to apply fw, when you can strike and get a flawless form stack

full acorn
#

So when do you Shuriken storm? like with 5+ targets

swift tinsel
#

strike does more damage and procs unseen blade

steel zinc
rain kernel
#

what does sub trick mean?

hazy breach
#

Strike always does more damage than storm

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Regardless of target count

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(as trickster)

hazy breach
plush roost
#

Out of curiosity whats the dps loss on doing a single storm+single powder at 6 targets

sullen hare
#

Pretty sure the context is bis rings vs. Circes right?

vale pine
full acorn
#

The windsinger bug is so nice

hazy breach
brisk onyx
plush roost
#

Thats what i figured, what about during tfd, 2 stacks of danse worth it for 4 extra seconds?

hazy breach
#

Nah

plush roost
#

Or too niche not big diff

molten citrus
plush roost
#

Oki ty eleem, I'm not a tc thats why i ask question!

honest saddle
#

You can make target count wa but it's pretty costly cpu wise

brisk onyx
#

!wa

wicked joltBOT
lilac stag
hollow spear
#

But doesn't it have to count then anyways?

#

You just won't show the number and glow an icon instead

lilac stag
#

The WA yes. The number is irrelevant to the user so why have an updating count

hollow spear
#

True

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I used to have the number

lilac stag
#

just more resources

hollow spear
#

Then I deleted the wa on ovinax

lilac stag
#

Hahah

plush roost
#

Lol

molten citrus
plush roost
#

Ouch oof owie your frames

hollow spear
#

Giga lag

versed terrace
#

!craft

lilac stag
#

dagger

hollow spear
#

I have a top of the line pc and my frames still went down the drain

lilac stag
#

assa and caustic splatter with nameplates would wreck people

#

I rarely got any drops as sub

plush roost
#

I was playing base plater when learning assa

#

Holy debuffs

lilac stag
#

hahaha

#

L

hollow spear
#

Sin funnel was too good to not play it on Ovinax

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At least for me

plush roost
#

Sbs, rupture, garrote, crippling, deadly, amp, caustic, atrophic on every frame

#

Ahhhh

lilac stag
#

sub was fine. The timings were good. The funnel in execute pushed assa ahead

tranquil garden
versed terrace
#

what's the best stats for craft pls ? crit/master, crit/vers, vers/master ?

lilac stag
#

Vers Mas

tranquil garden
versed terrace
#

ty

lilac stag
#

crafted is almost always vers mas as sub. You can gem and enchant the crit if you actually need it.

versed terrace
hollow spear
#

It wants me to craft crit mastery actually

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The answer is always sim yourself

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These questions are completely pointless

plush roost
#

It wants me to craft crit haste with warning signs. Rupture maxxing :^)

hollow spear
#

Nobody knows what gear you have

vale pine
lilac stag
#

for what sim and whatā€™s the difference?

versed terrace
#

i'm simming but I need choose stats first

hollow spear
#

You can sim different combinations?

plush roost
hollow spear
#

Minor difference, like 1k

versed terrace
#

I can't I guess

image.png
hollow spear
#

But outside error

tranquil garden
lilac stag
#

Iā€™ll take the extra vers for def thanks.

#

Hilarious

hollow spear
#

But that wasn't the question

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The question is always about dps

dusty totem
lilac stag
#

Whatā€™s your crit at now? Are you abysmally low?

hollow spear
#

I also stick to vers as long as I don't int

#

Would have to check, not even that low

lilac stag
#

and are you running Tea garf_sit

dusty totem
#

Yeah i mean there is zero chance crafting anything but vers mast is gonna be good

swift tinsel
#

does sub have any 8 yard abilities

#

afaik they're only melee range or 10 yards

frank musk
swift tinsel
#

but I think nimble is 8

steel zinc
#

Are the Ring nerfs already live?

hollow spear
swift tinsel
#

not that it really matters

#

just bored and wanted to know nimble range lol

hollow spear
#

I think nimble was 8, yeah

swift tinsel
#

that's why I figured bc its less than storm but more than melee range from our character

#

thought it might have been melee range from target but its not

warm wyvern
#

Guys how looks Sub in high keys ?

near obsidian
#

crankaholic

slate lantern
lilac stag
#

The same it looked in S1

warm wyvern
#

and in term of performance ?

warm wyvern
bleak night
#

depends on your pc

lilac stag
warm wyvern
#

that means trash as far as I understand

hollow spear
#

yes it's complete trash

near obsidian
#

i played sub in s1,,,,

lilac stag
#

rogue wasnā€™t meta. Assa did the most overall of the three specs. Degens ported out and used sub for last boss due to bust ST.

#

if you enjoy it, play it and make it work

molten citrus
lilac stag
#

if you have to ask how itā€™s playing in high keys via ptr and prepatch tuning your guess is as good as any.

near obsidian
#

just go ptr hit dummy n find out

left ledge
#

Wait

#

Are we a meta raid spec

#

This channel been popping off too much recently susge

hazy breach
#

Possibly yeeees

frank musk
#

If nothing else, we can reliably be the dark horse.

left ledge
#

Damn I open pins and we got nerfed again

frank musk
#

They fear that which they forgot.

#

Let them fear.

lucid jackal
left ledge
frank musk
#

It will always be meta in my heart.

#

Even if it isnt on a technical basis.

near obsidian
#

btw is this the first time since bfa s1 that sub isnt awful in dungeons

hazy breach
jaunty umbra
#

what

near obsidian
#

like has sub been like meta in aoe since then

hazy breach
#

Sub was meta early dragonflight and has been really solid ever since

near obsidian
#

o

jaunty umbra
#

it was also meta s2 SL

hollow spear
#

nobody plays it if it's not omega broken

#

which is why nobody knows how it compares I guess haha

upper narwhal
#

Yeah S2 SL was decent (cringe gameplay tho) and DF was decent for M+

versed terrace
#

how can I do make raidbots understand that I want only two crafted items at the end of sims and not all of them selected ? I run an error due to the embelish limitation of 2 when I put it on every items selected ....

image.png
upper narwhal
#

but it was bp spam which is also cringe gameplay

lucid jackal
#

It was good last szn, nobody played it, it was the best spec for most of DF in keys, and in sl it was mostly the best spec to play, although it went back and forth with outlaw and sub on some season/dungeons

hazy breach
#

So go into that section at the top and max out the resources

jaunty umbra
versed terrace
hollow spear
#

maybe you filled one (or multiple) slot(s) with only embellished options?

versed terrace
hollow spear
#

works for me tho

versed terrace
#

Its strange bcs it's occur on some itmes and not others

fossil frost
#

If you're planning to play sin and sub (but probably mainly play sub) which stats is it better to build?

versed terrace
#

Crafted gear bugging : neck, cloak, feet, ring, wep // crafted gear working : waist, wrist

hollow spear
#

vers/mastery/crit all good

#

sin doesn't really care

#

just try to avoid haste if you wanna play both

versed terrace
fossil frost
#

sick, so focus mas/vers? I'm already stacked on mas/crit from being sin last tier

naive zodiac
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
sterile kiln
versed terrace
sterile kiln
#

usually the error happens when you don't have a non-embellished item that it can replace the embellished one with to generate the combinations (in each gear slot)

versed terrace
#

that's what I thought when I restarted but even before I selected a wep it ran an error again :/

night sparrow
#

Hello o/ you always ST with SoD, but do you always SD for ST ?

#

I'm afraid to not have double SD charges during Flag+SB

fathom adder
#

how do you sually do your aoe opener if you have to burst asap? i get that you can run around while gathering mobs and rupture them before using cds, but cds asap? i guess ss or storm -> sd/symbols -> sectec/sb and keep going?

versed terrace
#

Since my sim doesn't work like I wanted, I would know if it's better to go for Crafted Wep Everforged Stabber with Darkmoon Sigil: Ascension and a gear (cloak, wrist, boots, waist) with Writhing Armor Banding OR with Elemental Focusing Lens (I will play assa too so if it's can be useful on both sub and sin would be nice)
My sims without embelish showed me that : crafted neck (+65k) > Raid neck (+49k) > M+ (+45k) The crafted neck gives more damages than anything so is it better to go for that craft ? It's not mentioned at all in sub and sin wowhead guides so it's look like a trap for me to go for the neck idk

fallow nimbus
sterile kiln
versed terrace
hazy breach
#

Youre overthinking how much the embellishments and the crafts matter, and also why bother with it right now and not wait until like 2 weeks when you have the resources available to actually craft it

sterile kiln
#

you could also just craft the dagger with ascension and the neck with EFL if the ilvl upgrade is the main thing as the embellishments themselves are really close to each other

hazy breach
#

Unless you loot a mythic dagger the best option is almost certainly to just craft a dagger

versed terrace
fossil frost
#

For coup de grace, outside of dance we just send it and inside dance we should send it before sectec, right?

sterile kiln
versed terrace
tiny flint
#

what stats breakpoint for sub in s2?

hazy breach
hazy breach
sterile kiln
tiny flint
hazy breach
#

Yes

tranquil garden
ashen terrace
#

does feel a bit weird to craft a dagger early on with where it drops in the raid

sterile kiln
#

imo dagger is usually safe cause you can equip 2 so you don't just replace the crafted if you get lucky

#

unless you get 2 HOLY

ashen terrace
#

Isnā€™t offhand very meh

rain stratus
#

indeed

hazy breach
#

You can just wait it out, but you risk it not dropping for a long time

jaunty heath
#

Which week can we even craft

ashen terrace
#

I think Iā€™m just waiting until after farm the 2nd week cause there probably wonā€™t be any dps checks the first week unless you are in a guild that raids a lot

jaunty heath
#

Is it next week or why are we panicing

void hound
ashen terrace
#

You can craft next week yes

sterile kiln
hexed dagger
#

we'll still be getting a spark every other week starting next week right?

uneven scarab
#

Offhand is meh but the stats are still good

#

so either way crafting a dagger is almost always worth

#

for mh

jaunty heath
#

Heckin love week 1 crafts

#

Just craft a dagger and be done with it

#

At some point youā€™ll want an oh anyways

#

If you get lucky with a drop it is what it is

sly shore
#

weapon is astronomically the highest increase

uneven scarab
#

Ya exactly

#

Trolling urself not crafting one

ashen terrace
#

Feel like itā€™s also a bit troll to craft giga early before thereā€™s even a dps check but to each their own

rain stratus
#

Yep, just need a crafter to guarantee you r5 on wednesday šŸ™‚

sage grail
#

hi. im new to sub. are these macros ok to use?

image.png image.png
sly shore
#

no

#

!macro

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
dense coyote
#

hey so im on wowhead ... and for this point in the multi target opener can i macro all of those together just to have a easy button to press for the opener for that part ? or will shadowstrike not benefit from premeditation if i do that ? im obviously not looking to replace shadow dance and symbols for that macro lol im just wondering in context to having an easy button for that part of the opener

image.png
uneven scarab
#

i mean u can have a dps macro that uses trinket/pot

dense coyote
#

but ... not trinket pot dance symbols and shadow strike all at the same time ?

uneven scarab
#

dance/strike macro doesnt work

#

!macro

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
hollow spear
#

Technically, you could macro a lot of things if you have enough keybinds left

#

But I feel like there's not enough value

fossil frost
#

how much of a dps loss it it to macro sectec and CB?

hazy breach
#

Like 1%

#

Slightly more

rain stratus
#

Big enough to not do it really

dense coyote
bleak night
#

pot and trinket macroed to shadowblades would probably be fine as long as i press it before sectec right

fathom adder
#

do you try to fit 2 dances between the 2 dance + cd combo in aoe too like in st?

dense coyote
#

wait why is macroing secret technique and cold blood bad ...?

midnight geyser
#

always

bleak night
quaint lodge
#

!cb

wicked joltBOT
#
  • Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
    When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
    (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
bleak night
#

you can have a macro still but you need a naked sectec bind as well

dense coyote
#

well yeah of course

#

ok good to know

#

i have a naked everything haha

#

i just like to macro what i can to make certian parts of rotation easier when i cna thats all then i have the abilities seperate

#

i have access to 40 keybinds that i know with muscle memory very well

jagged hamlet
#

Just have a modifier to cast sec tech naked and problem solved

dense coyote
#

ok

#

thank you !

hollow spear
#

I have a modifier to cast it "dressed"

real panther
#

I personaly have dance+sb+strike in a macro. It is not super opti as it is not recomended, especialy if you don't master the rotation, but if you do you can land your 2nd sectech in it no prob

hollow spear
#

WA question: I've decided to mark my combo points purple if my shadow techniques stacks are >= 7.
Is there anything risky about that compared to the sound alert due to some bugs?

swift tinsel
#

I have colored borders and I've never had issues

real panther
#

same

swift tinsel
#

or rings around the cp border

lucid jackal
#

I just track stacks

#

It glows when it's ready to refund

#

!wa

wicked joltBOT
lucid jackal
#

Wait wtf

#

My package never got added

#

@vale pine add my weakaura

serene owl
#

if less then 7 targets do i still shadowstrike eviscerate? no shuriken storm to build CP?

hazy breach
#

Yes, no storm in dance until 7 or more

#

The only reason to storm is to apply find weakness for bp

serene owl
#

ahh perfect ty

hazy breach
#

Backstab and storm both practically do 0 damage

#

Strike does damage

serene owl
#

yeah just though the aoe damage might be betetr but got you

hazy breach
#

Strike also does aoe damage

void hound
#

only thing storm has going for it is generating more CP

worthy relic
#

storm is good to spread FW to all targets and to get a DM stack

#

thats why u use it once in dance

#

oh eleem said the same thing like 5 msg ago, mb

serene owl
#

would you storm outside of dance though waiting for dance to come back

hazy breach
#

More cp

serene owl
#

no point of backstab

hazy breach
#

Well backstab does more damage on 1 target

#

But the combo points on 2 or more is worth more from storm

vale pine
lucid jackal
keen dome
#

Best trinket in the history of WOW in that screenshot. 10/10.

vale pine
#

!wa

wicked joltBOT
sand ore
honest saddle
#

@vale pine is Sub Trick in the pin sim what the ring was at before the nerf?

cunning turret
#

Been practicing sub again this past week and have a few questions.

Is there a prefered spell sequence for when you're coming into your 2nd flag+blade window? should i be at max combo points going into flag?
is there a list of how long i can hold each ability for cd window? such as dance, ST?
it feels like i'm either holding ST for like 20 seconds before 2nd flag, or using it and then not having enough cp spenders to get it back in time for cooldowns.

for 2m trinkets, should i send with just dance+symbol when it's up, or hold for each flag window?

also, i've tried running a few logs i have through wowanalyzer to see if there's any glaring issues, but it says that my spec isn't supported. is this just due to the new patch?

vale pine
honest saddle
#

but what is Sub trick

vale pine
#

thats the default

#

the baseline

#

each profile below replaces the first ring with the circlet

#

and you can see how much better/worse it is

dusty pagoda
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
hazy breach
#

!burst

wicked joltBOT
#

During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.

hazy breach
#

!cds

wicked joltBOT
#

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

honest saddle
#

the confusion comes in not knowing what the baseline is @vale pine

Now I see it is Jastor and Ritual Bone Band

image.png
hazy breach
#

And for 2 min trinket you just use it with blades and pretend its 3 minutes

vale pine
hazy breach
#

(which is why theyre not great)

twilit phoenix
#

did the ring changes affect which gems we're using?

#

i know some people are dropping legendary for windsinger

hazy breach
#

Ideally you werent using the ring anyway with s2 ilvls

rain stratus
#

Does that mean that the ring information on wowhead is outdated atm?

hazy breach
#

But yes you can swap to windsinger

twilit phoenix
hazy breach
#

Well yes right now we are

twilit phoenix
#

haha yeah that's what I meant

hazy breach
#

But not once you get some decent rings from next season

honest saddle
#

I mean, I think for a lot of people, getting a ring is coming via vault and prayge for good stats. The chances we get a ring in raid with 19 other vultures is not high

twilit phoenix
#

I know we drop it earlier next season

#

but I'm just curious about current gem usage

honest saddle
#

or we craft a ring most likely

vale pine
# cunning turret Been practicing sub again this past week and have a few questions. Is there a p...
  • you aling everything with secret.
    Basically every 90 seconds 2x secret/dance/symbols
  • You essentially align things to secret techniques in between
    It is already possible to use sybols/dance ~10 secounds before secret comes off cd, the important part is to get superchaerger on secret
  • ~20 secounds before your 90 secound cooldowns, you won't use cooldowns.
    --- hope i did not repeat too much of what eleem stated ---
twilit phoenix
#

windsinger it is then

hazy breach
cunning turret
#

Thanks Eleem! is there anywhere i can post a log for someone with a bit more experience to take a look and see where i can improve? just to make sure i'm not turning anything dumb into muscle memory :p

honest saddle
#

yeah, I wasn't sure if heroic level rings from m+ passed the siren ring

twilit phoenix
#

have the ring changes been implemented into SimC?

cunning turret
#

Thanks fuu šŸ™‚

vale pine
rain stratus
#

Wasnt trying to point fingers or anything just wanted to make sure

#

You are doing too much for the community already

vale pine
#

oh no, its good

#

if you find something missing or wrong, always good to mention

honest saddle
#

pulls out dictionary, and magnifying glass to look at guide to find mistake

vale pine
#

haha, possible that you find something

flint parrot
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
vale pine
#

let me quick see what gems we use now, so i can update the info on the gear page

vestal escarp
#

I dont even know what roaring Queen citrine does

vale pine
#

ring seems no on par with a good heroic ring

#

heroic with socket

tranquil garden
#

Really glad ritual knife is viable because sweet monkey Christ is it gonna be hard to get the other trinkets before dinars finally come out again

vale pine
#

so somewhere heroic with socket/mythic is the mark you drop it

slender escarp
#

howq important is snd as sub in kreys?

vale pine
#

you get snd from evis

#

you use evis for coup

#

so it maintains itself

#

no need to worry about it

tranquil garden
#

Thanks for the sims, didn't realize how good ritual knife could be

vale pine
#

trinekts all kinda suck this season

twilit phoenix
#

i just want my cards ASAP

tranquil garden
#

Can't wait for cards to drop so I can stop hunting for transmitter spawn

twilit phoenix
#

no more of this jumping and standing on platforms

jaunty heath
#

!macro

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
worn dock
#

Hi everyone, as a new Subtlety rogue user, does anyone can recommend me a good guide for S2?, I see some guides using and spamming Shadowstrike but I still don't see how to without being stealth, also wanting to learn rotations.

I just read wowhead guide, but still missing the part in how Shadowstrike is properly used.

Not a native english speaker, apologice my bad english.

vale pine
sullen hare
#

#subtlety-faq has several guide writers in it if fuu's wowhead article potentially missed something

#

generally speaking there's not a way to spam shadow strike

#

it's just our default builder in shadow dance

vale pine
#

!guides

wicked joltBOT
vale pine
#

!design

worn dock
#

icy-veins guide has backtab as points builder, now it makes sense for me. Thank you all.

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

steel zinc
#

Fuu please read dm

half comet
#

anyone know where the ersonance crystals are atm

#

the orbs u fly through for crests

hazy breach
#

Isle of dorn

steel zinc
#

Yo guys I have a cook I just wrote fuu. If you remember shards of domination you could increase the stacks with Stealth Detection ability. You can do this now also with the new tier set and get faster winning streaks. This is especially useful on rick reverb.

half comet
tidal copper
#

Is rogue like really unpleasant to do open world content? or is it just Subtlety? or am I missing something?

swift tinsel
#

sub is yeah

#

unless you're using dance/sod kinda liberally you just poke stuff

#

sin is solid for open world

tidal copper
#

I dont expect it to be as good at is as my WW, but its completely different

swift tinsel
#

rogue in general in open world is kinda lacking

hazy breach
#

Yep rogue is rough

swift tinsel
#

compared to most classes

tidal copper
#

ok, cause Feral wasn't this bad

swift tinsel
#

one plus is that we can obliterate rares pretty easily solo

tranquil garden
hazy breach
#

Like doing delves as rogue sucks ass

tranquil garden
#

Press sd and sod and do massive upfront damage

swift tinsel
#

I do delves as sin most of the time

tidal copper
tranquil garden
#

Everything dies before your CDs run out

swift tinsel
#

bc dance makes threat screwy with brann

tranquil garden
#

Then you've got stealth on top of that

#

The key is to just always hit your CDs when you go to fight something

bleak night
#

words to live by

swift tinsel
#

strike teleporting all over in the open world is fun though

tranquil garden
#

But in general you just immediately get 6 points from stealth, pop sod and sd, and slam off a supercharged sec tech. Most open world stuff dies right then and there

vale pine
swift tinsel
#

that one is so irksome to me for whatever reason

#

the only non-underwater one I dislike

bleak night
#

its way better now, but holy fuck i hated it on launch

#

the spores respawning constantly

#

and i was playing hunter so my pets were perma in combat with them

swift tinsel
#

yeah that was incredibly troll

bleak night
#

dragging them over to me

vale pine
#

you could speedrun it even with meh gear in ~4 minutes

bleak night
#

you could abuse them to kill the mobs yeah

#

but for casual stuff it was so annoying

pure dust
#

I hate enhance shamans

swift tinsel
#

ironically enough the Trickster mobs in the underwater ones are the most annoying delve element to me

swift tinsel
pure dust
#

one button , every 30 sec blows everything up

#

lol

swift tinsel
#

this is my 593 rat lol

trail bane
#

@vale pine ring gems on wowhead updated now? So we dont use Legendary Skipper's Citrine at all anymore?

swift tinsel
#

I'm redoing my whole WA setup for it bc I'm bored

pure dust
vale pine
#

to the top simming for m+/raid

trail bane
#

awesome

swift tinsel
#

I toyed with the idea of playing it as an alt just to feel the rush

vale pine
#

but ye, its the same in both content now

image.png
trail bane
#

should remove this then next time your editing it "When investing time into farming the ring, the best combinations will always include Legendary Skipper's Citrine Legendary Skipper's Citrine due to the power level of the gem"

raw dust
#

hi i want to play sub for s2 mythic+

#

and.. i usually save 1shadow dance + 1symbol before i start flag- & shadow blades combo.

#

is it right??

pale python
#

you should always have 2dance + 2symbols for each Flag/Blades burst

pliant topaz
#

no, you need 2 dances and 2 sods rfor every flag/blades window

hazy breach
#

!cds

wicked joltBOT
#

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

raw dust
#

oh.. thanks

hollow spear
#

man, the music during the questline is really nice

maiden oar
#

with the charges now it goes like this right:

opener: 2x sd/symbol/sectech
between opener and 1m30s: 2x sd/symbol/sectech
1m30s: 2x sd/symbol/sectech
between 1m30s and 3m: 1x sd/symbol/sectech

and then it just repeats?

#

havent played much since dust

#

and you get 1 free symbols charge to use anywhere

hazy breach
#

Roughly yes

maiden oar
#

ok ty

hazy breach
#

With more targets you someitmes get one extra

maiden oar
#

wasnt sure if the 2x between opener and 1m30s was because of the 1 free charge or if its loopable

hazy breach
#

If you lose uptime you might lose one

#

etc

#

Youre also missing a ton cps from skyfury if practicing on dummies

maiden oar
#

yeah

#

it is what it is

#

rn im just using flag cd as a benchmark but knowing what the ideal situation looks like is nice too

hollow spear
#

couldn't the tech be to set up a dummy in a follower dungeon for the buffs?

hazy breach
#

Ye you could

#

Skyfury is like ~10% more cp or something like that

#

So its very noticeable

old kayak
#

new season is it worth macro shadow dance and symbols ?

hollow spear
#

yeah, timings are getting quite sketchy sometimes on the dummy

hollow spear
old kayak
hollow spear
#

!macro

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
hollow spear
#

forgot the other command

hazy breach
#

!burst

wicked joltBOT
#

During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.

hollow spear
#

very nice, need to remember this one

steel zinc
old kayak
#

!race

steel zinc
#

say that still

vale pine
#

i only changed the section below

night sparrow
#

Hello ! Been training on target dummy a lil. When I use Symbols for every Secret Tech, I end up finfind myself in a spot I don't have Symbols back for every Secret Tech after 5 or 6mn. Is that normal ?
Also do you guys always use Dance for Secret tech or there is some case you don't ? I guess not but then how do u identify what Secret tech u don't Dance based on remaing Dance CD's ? Thx ā¤ļø

vale pine
#

fixed, thanks

vale pine
night sparrow
#

Alright I'll delay sectech a lil to avoid that then, thank you !

steel zinc
#

Eye isnt that good anymore imo and showed in sims

vale pine
#

ye

#

i will re-run the sheet soon-ish

#

and after that update trinkets

#

the list is fine, but eye is def. not S tier anymore

hazy breach
#

The way it looks right now is just get house of cards and then use whatever is the highest ilvl in the other slot

hollow spear
#

can we still get heroic ilvl knife?

hazy breach
#

Yes from maps or vault

hollow spear
#

might actually try to farm that with maps

hazy breach
#

You get at most 1 map per week

vale pine
#

you are limited to one map per week now

#

its capped

hollow spear
#

really?

#

man

vale pine
#

but they changed it

#

so you get a higher chance to get a map

#

every time you don't get one

hollow spear
#

my grandiose plans shattered immediately

keen dome
#

Mythic knife when šŸ˜¦

hollow spear
#

is it just me or is tinkering with your weakauras weirdly addictive?

swift tinsel
#

I mess with them constantly lol

keen dome
#

Same

#

It's a lot of fun.

swift tinsel
#

making a totemic enh one right now

bleak night
#

Canā€™t get addicted to tinkering with weakauras if you never learn how

steel zinc
#

I mean even if your guild does split you should have a 9 slot vault first 2 weeks imo

bleak night
steel zinc
#

So gl getting knife

edgy zenith
keen dome
bleak night
#

Fair

#

I remember seeing a feral that had popcat for combo points

swift tinsel
#

scritch's!

bleak night
#

Yeah lmao

#

So good

swift tinsel
#

ran a plaguefall with scritch back in SL

keen dome
#

lol, that's such a good WA

outer osprey
#

How does SecTech and Escalating Blades proc work? I can't seem to find how to predict it properly

hollow spear
#

that's what's taking your dps up to 11

hazy breach
#

Escalating blades proc from unseen blade in the trickster tree

cyan perch
#

how big of a loss is sending 1st sec tech with cb vs holding for 2nd

hazy breach
#

Like 1%

cyan perch
#

oh bless up i thought it was gonna be bigger

round latch
#

!guide

wicked joltBOT
dense coyote
#

!guide

wicked joltBOT
earnest flower
#

Looking for a good WA for my Rogue i use Afenar but is there a better one let me know if there is a good one you like

vale pine
#

!wa

wicked joltBOT
vale pine
#

pick your posion

half comet
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
cloud perch
#

why exactly does Shadowstrike not do Shadowstrike dmg ?

lucid jackal
#

?

shrewd lantern
#

Did something change from s1 that mast>vers now

hollow spear
#

mastery was always better than vers for trickster

#

generally speaking

shrewd lantern
#

so it was more of a deathstalker thing

hollow spear
#

Deathstalker liked vers a little more than trickster, yes

solar charm
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
molten citrus
#

!bugs

wicked joltBOT
hazy breach
#

Mastery doesnt increase the damage of your auto attacks and plague damage garf

rocky mortar
#

what is sub ST looking like?

vale pine
#

but we have strong burst damage

rocky mortar
#

numerically where would it be? top 5ish specs or no?

lucid jackal
#

Strongest burst in the game

#

Especially outside of lust

#

High st overall, probably top 5-7 specs?

rocky mortar
#

m+ also looking solid?

lucid jackal
#

This raid is pretty cleave heavy tho, with adds that have to die fast

#

1:30 timers also seem a bit better than 2 on some fights

swift tinsel
#

trickster is great for cleave so we're positioned well

rocky mortar
#

tricster helps with that

#

^

hazy breach
rocky mortar
#

1:30 also puts WW very high up.

#

if it's burst cleave

lucid jackal
hazy breach
#

Might aswell pick it anyway

#

Shadow focus is legit useless

lucid jackal
#

What do u lose, focus?

#

I think these fights u literally never press storm tho

#

But maybe u just run it anyway ig

hazy breach
#

Ye

#

Focus is barely better than margin of error

thorny zodiac
#

on icy veins it says in AoE opener you should use flag as 2nd cast, before rupture spread. But on wowhead it says to use flag after rupture spread? Which one is it? or does it not matter?

cunning turret
#

!log

vale pine
#

the opener is very much dynamic

hazy breach
vale pine
#

your tank will gather mobs, you can use the time to spread rupture

#

and then go flag into cooldowns

#

which is what i suggest

#

there is a 2nd tab in the opener section on wowhead "explenation", it goes more in detail

thorny zodiac
vale pine
#

no

#

the supercharger resets

#

but you can press symbols right after the key starts

#

the timer is 10 secounds

#

and you will take another 10 probably to move to your first pack

steel zinc
vale pine
#

so you don't rly lose anything for using symbols streight with key start

steel zinc
#

otherwise you can stack them up endlessly and one shot bosses

#

first day on ptr that was possible

#

fun times

vale pine
#

only reset is when you "start" the key

steel zinc
#

yeah or pull a boss in raid

#

but you can "store" one supercharge

thorny zodiac
#

in m+ AoE, if i end a pull with SnD up, can i skip the SS>Eviscerate opener step?

acoustic lodge
#

Question, the last boss in nerotic wake. When you go down to the add. Whenever I shadow dance the mob doesn't allow me to hit it and completely bugs out. is this common?

thorny zodiac
#

and SS>rupture spread instantly

hazy breach
hazy breach
acoustic lodge
#

oh gotcha

#

that's sda

#

i was the only death :/

hazy breach
#

You can either click of the tricks buff or throw a kidney on the mob

acoustic lodge
#

okay gotcha! i'll do that next time. ty El!

shrewd lantern
#

Iā€™ve seen some st builds play sf some play replicating

#

whats with that

stone robin
#

is there a good video tutorial to learn sub?

cold scaffold
#

my vanish breaks almost instantly before I have the chance to use shadowstrike, is there any smart way to play around this?

quick swan
#

How big of an increase is holding CB for the second Sectec

hazy breach
quick swan
#

So worthwhile

night sparrow
#

Hey, is it worth to sometimes tempo for 5 shadowcraft charge to make sure you get 6+ cp so u don't waist energy on an additionnal backstab while not in 1m30 burst or Symbols+SecTech window ?

quick swan
#

Gotcha

shrewd monolith
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
steel zinc
# hazy breach Like 1.2%

Eleem its getting bigger the number it was like 0.6% yesterday now its 1.2% an hour ago it was 1%

hazy breach
#

It was 0.6% in s1 profile

steel zinc
graceful rock
#

Do I just let me rupture fall off if Iā€™m mid CDs?

hazy breach
#

For flagellation you'd do it even if its not in pandemic

lucid jackal
#

Flag rupture blast

civic lava
#

!macro

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
stone robin
#

so i always rupture with flag?

shrewd lantern
#

You just dont want rupture to fall off

#

during cds

graceful rock
#

And we only flag-> Evis in the opener for snd Iā€™m assuming

steel zinc
stone robin
#

is it good to macro backstab into shadowdance for the danse macabre stack?

hazy breach
#

No, you should not be backstabing in dance for a macabre stack at all

stone robin
#

okay thank you!

#

and what about shadow dance and symbols of death together?

hazy breach
#

!burst

wicked joltBOT
#

During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.

dense coyote
#

!rotation

#

just kidding

stone robin
# hazy breach !burst

thanks! is there a overview of all commands somewhere? i really want to get better ^^

hazy breach
#

No theres no list. Theres not that many, and its all info thats already available in the guides

stone robin
#

okay ty :3

steel zinc
dense coyote
#

I know Raichu was a sub rogue

tired hound
#

!guide

wicked joltBOT
odd cedar
#

do we ST first in dance even after we drop s1 tier set

lucid jackal
#

Always