am i just doing it wrong, i'm getting much higher damage using tea instead of CB, grantide i'm not optimized what so ever for sub so i'm all crit/mastery
#subtlety
chilly kite
lilac stag
swift tinsel
lol actually not bad
chilly kite
probably because i've played sin for so long lol
tribal blade
😉
young mural
Are there any changes to the M+ trickster build?
swift tinsel
leaden prairie
i just watn to finish at 5
swift tinsel
new meta
young mural
zacro the troller
swift tinsel
actions.build+=/shuriken_storm,if=combo_points.deficit=2&buff.shadow_dance.up is the call I added for storm
leaden prairie
well send the whole sim
swift tinsel
I'm messing around with apl modifying to see if I can do stuff lol
tribal blade
ahhhh i see
alpine wraith
i just watn to finish at 5
crit rng 7 points hit harder than 5
in a world of 100000 iterations more cps more damage
when you crit
the diff between a 5 cp finisher and a 7 one is around 20%
or a bit more
builder dmg is not that big
and gcd economy in dance is already quite fine and shadowcraft resets help a bit making 5 cp finishers not as good
tribal blade
being at 5 CP in dance with skyfury is quite rare
whenever i hit 5CP in dance i notice there's no shammy in the raid/party
and then i mentally check out
leaden prairie
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nfQqKH14NugX2CevaNuqc1
so
tribal blade
ok i got sleep night night lovelies who are maining sub and will have a great tier suffering with me ❤️
leaden prairie
you remember how we said its from top to bottom
swift tinsel
ye
leaden prairie
that means the first line encountered that is true
will activate
in your sim here
all the lines before shuriken
if one of them activate
you never get to it
in that case shadowstrike
swift tinsel
ahhh duh
leaden prairie
you would put it above all the lines really in your case
swift tinsel
I'll send that then and see, thanks!
swift tinsel
appreciate the help
vestal escarp
Keep it rerolling zac
keen dome
Learning programming with Sub rogues. hell yeah
swift tinsel
so its just actions.build=shuriken_toss/storm or build=/
leaden prairie
so its just actions.build=shuriken_toss/storm or build=/
well if you use an = it delete the whole action list basically
you have to think of it as a variable, its the variable build, if you put = you start over since you reafect the variable
and then +=/ add it to the list
swift tinsel
gotcha
leaden prairie
since well its an action list
twilit phoenix
so its just actions.build=shuriken_toss/storm or build=/
=/
swift tinsel
xD
clever delta
What was that aoe line, strike sectech storm bp ?
swift tinsel
at 7+ targets yeah
light fog
!wa
jaunty heath
!wa
vale pine
!wa
lilac stag
!wa
swift tinsel
!wa
twilit phoenix
!wa
tidal marsh
!wa
jaunty umbra
remote rapids
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
kindred saffron
!wa
dusty pagoda
!fuuwa
wild hornet
!wa
fallen crescent
vague mason
Hey all. Is maghar orc is bis pick for sub spec?
lilac stag
yes
swift tinsel
um excuse me
bleak night
dont strikethrough that, thats the most important part
swift tinsel
orc female is one of the better transmog models
bleak night
swift tinsel
nelf/human female > orc female > belf/velf/nightborne mf
alpine wraith
human male supremacy
bleak night
tawny plume
Tauren no1
swift tinsel
if you could hide hooves or troll feet
keen verge
!prepull
chrome palm
Undead also have their grippers out for no reason
swift tinsel
yeah like I get the lore reasons for the ones that have them exposed
alpine wraith
you only need to use symbols pre pull
swift tinsel
but gimme the option
alpine wraith
ideally at least 20 to 17 secs before pull for optimal usage
but if only for supercharger as soon as you rezz you can use it
the other one is also to get 2 crit strikes from rotten but it is whatever
as you might expect
swift tinsel
also humans can't frontflip so they lose to nelf on principle
how are you gonna go for frontflip streaks with your straight jumps
next fjord
Lightforged Draenei supremacy
lilac stag
~~also terrible for transmogs~~
vale pine
thats not bad
mighty citrus
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
bleak night
its better than Baloo up there
vale pine
um excuse me
I can't identify a race from the screenshot
swift tinsel
I can't identify a race from the screenshot
maghar orc
twilit phoenix
vale pine
or maybe its worgen
swift tinsel
unless its for a meme transmog
vale pine
the feet don't look orc like
swift tinsel
Viscious Flamepaws, druid lookalike mog
from antorus iirc
took a break from the mariachi mog
obtuse dirge
coup de grace works with nimble flurry right?
hazy breach
Yes
vale pine
Human and elf are best for tmogs
humans are the least interessting race in the entire game tho
swift tinsel
I'm already a human, why be one in game
alpine wraith
yea it is cool hope it keeps you enterteined the burst is so good
clever delta
we went from shaman healer in every key to no shaman helaer ever
alpine wraith
there are many min max things to do in keys with supercharger and tfd
vestal escarp
more zeross doctored screenshots lezgo
alpine wraith
that makes me remember i have to config XcT again
i made it show sec tech FULL JOINED DMG
vale pine
I'm already a human, why be one in game
exactly, the entire game is about fantasy, why play a mere human
alpine wraith
and it was kinda cool
swift tinsel
they had Varian Wrynn
proper latch
BP at 7+ if that's what you're after
I'm after target count WA. I swear there was a command
swift tinsel
they are not mechagnomes
Honestly the most valid point
I don't even have them unlocked lol
swift tinsel
because nothing could ever force me to roll one
uneven scarab
ya same
alpine wraith
havent found a target count wa that does not brick sometimes
swift tinsel
I'm after target count WA. I swear there was a command
there's a ton on Wago.io
wild hornet
humans are the least interessting race in the entire game tho
That was an insult and a half
vale pine
human is dps wise great, and it is one of the better model for transmogs because its basically the standard model.
swift tinsel
True, I'm just bored of seeing every armor set modeled on human male on wowhead
alpine wraith
i began as undead then went human the blood elf then back to human
swift tinsel
Lol I was undead then human then blood elf now maghar
bleak night
blizzard makes every armor set for human then just hope it works for everyone else
swift tinsel
Actually I think my rogue was a troll male first back in cata
bleak night
then we end up with glaringly obvious transmog bugs on other races that never get addressed
swift tinsel
idk what it is but armor on human male model looks like 10% bigger than it should
homeboy looks a bit bloated
there real question is
do you have a mog in a dress with dual cleavers
swift tinsel
that's badass ngl
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
people: "bruh, i can't play this trinket its 0.3% worse"
meanwhile: "play whatever race looks best to you" means:
wild hornet
if i wasnt a fan of human id play the race w highest dps
but wts is as important as my left eyeball
uneven scarab
i was undead forever but swapped to human at the start of df
wild hornet
also im an avid hater of horde
uneven scarab
smh
wild hornet
all my characters that can be human are human
uneven scarab
horde goated
swift tinsel
been horde 99% of my time playing but swapped to alliance to pvp with friends when human racial was super broken
wild hornet
been horde 99% of my time playing but swapped to alliance to pvp with friends wh...
it still gives you the opportunity for two on-uses
instead of playing with m*dallion
vale pine
sry, this is the right value, had the wrong race to compare to selected
swift tinsel
this was like 10+ years ago and they all quit to play League so I went back to horde lol
wild hornet
sry, this is the right value, had the wrong race to compare to selected
undead compared to?
troll, orc or what
vale pine
orc
ye
orc/maghar orc
undead dps racial is terrible, and would need a massive buff/rework
serene moat
Which weakaura is your guy’s favorite one?
wild hornet
as a minmaxer id rather lose 2% than look at something i dont wanna look
vale pine
but dps racial balance is off for long
wild hornet
undead dps racial is terrible, and would need a massive buff/rework
did it get killed?
lilac stag
and i hate how much of a dps loss the racial is
Could be worse. You could be earthen
wild hornet
i remember it being turbo good
wild hornet
even to the point id play horde so i can play undead
vale pine
did it get killed?
it just is not doing a lot of damage
hollow condor
/wa
bleak night
here we go agian
swift tinsel
will of the forsaken was good
bleak night
!wa
wild hornet
!wa
swift tinsel
but touch of the grave is doodoo
wild hornet
i mean to be fair i also sort of agree w ppl that say to play smth that looks cool
id hate to look at an orc 24/7
uneven scarab
Touch of the grave just hasnt really scaled at all
compared to other racials
I feel like
swift tinsel
nah its like Fatal Intent level damage
wild hornet
id hate to look at an orc 24/7
or any other abomination
serene moat
Yeah, but which of the wa do you guys prefer?🤓
wild hornet
including short people
||for legal reasons this is a joke||
uneven scarab
Yeah, but which of the wa do you guys prefer?🤓
I use kieron’s
wild hornet
Yeah, but which of the wa do you guys prefer?🤓
robins
uneven scarab
they’re all good in their own right tho
swift tinsel
Goblin jump is unironically useful very often
wild hornet
Goblin jump is unironically useful very often
yeah for priests especially
but my priest jumped off platform with it
swift tinsel
as a pseudo-blink it goes hard
uneven scarab
Fr
wild hornet
isnt it more like a disengage
pulsar hemlock
Yeah, but which of the wa do you guys prefer?🤓
Devlins
random hare
ok its time
random hare
no shaman
to absolutely
fuck this dungeon
in the ass
and open up a new asshole for siege
tidal marsh
alpine wraith
time to limit break you have my power and my axe
lilac stag
Goblin jump is unironically useful very often
May as well go VE and get the port and the dps
And to not be a gobo
swift tinsel
doesn't ve port have a cast time
lilac stag
it has a very fast travel time now. Needs a second of planning.
random hare
time to limit break you have my power and my axe
ok they are all bots
they jsut kept dying
going to ptr
cba 
uneven scarab
acoustic lodge
Odd, question. Do devs purposefully keep dead talents around for fun? like, gore maw is never used and then the weird shrould speed bost to get the SoD Cd reduction
lilac stag
you don’t want the real answer
uneven scarab
Shroud speed boost goated
couldnt tell you why they decide to leave goremaw in forever tho
jaunty heath
why when i press SS>Flag>Evis>Vanish that this vanish pulls me out of stealth?
acoustic lodge
Tbh, I'd like to know!
vale pine
it is time, i think your colors look way to washed you need a better color profile
also still no font with unicode support
lilac stag
Tbh, I'd like to know!
The spec is one of the least played. Even with the reworks it’s never fully iterated on so 1/2 ass shit gets left in while the good stuff is buggy as hell. You end up playing sub because you love it and just get used to dealing with it.
vale pine
What if he likes the boxes
boxbox fanboy
uneven scarab
boxbox fanboy
my riven goat
acoustic lodge
I'm not trying to hate on realz or cause negative energy. I just like to understand why things are down ya know? like there has to be a reason because I feel like they don't just make something with no intent.
lilac stag
I'm not trying to hate on realz or cause negative energy. I just like to underst...
Time. Literally that’s the answer.
uneven scarab
i always like to wonder if any blizz employees actually play sub rogue
swift tinsel
they had him working on rogue and dh rework in same ptr cycle
uneven scarab
boxbox was not that good, eu had quite a lot of better riven otps
Yeah true, i just liked his content back in the day
acoustic lodge
jesus poor guy
vale pine
he is entertaning for sure
acoustic lodge
THen DH was in a horrible spot so he had to dedicate more time to havoc
vale pine
I'm not trying to hate on realz or cause negative energy. I just like to underst...
what is it you are annoyed about?
lilac stag
the time allocated to rogue is either insufficient or mismanaged. Take your pick.
swift tinsel
and gets funneled into assassination
uneven scarab
what is it you are annoyed about?
Mainly that half our tree is nonexistent
acoustic lodge
what is it you are annoyed about?
Not annoyned about anyting Fuu. I just wanted to understand philsophy of design
lilac stag
Have a 35% BP buff while you wait.
uneven scarab
Have a 35% BP buff while you wait.
Dont forget backstab buffs too
for the finisher spec
acoustic lodge
I really enjoy how sub plays at the moment. Thank guys for the clarification!
swift tinsel
We're def in a good spot gameplay wise
vale pine
Not annoyned about anyting Fuu. I just wanted to understand philsophy of design
subtleties design philosophy currently is "big burst"
vale pine
Mainly that half our tree is nonexistent
as much as it annoys me, its good enough
the talents we can play are good
swift tinsel
if they inject some meaningful choice points, that'd be pretty cool
vale pine
it would be amazing
uneven scarab
Yeah i mean the stuff that works, works good
vale pine
but hey, we can't have everything
swift tinsel
like right now, we switch 1 talent between st and aoe
acoustic lodge
subtleties design philosophy currently is "big burst"
i love the 90 seconds goes! Makes the playstyle much different from sin
vale pine
subtlety will remain one of the lowest played specs in the game
and as such we won't get that much attention
acoustic lodge
WIld to me
swift tinsel
they'd have to make it more accessible if they want bigger engagement numbers with the spec
vale pine
its intentional
acoustic lodge
I remember, enhance was barely played until they got a a giga rework. Now it's all over the place
vale pine
they can lower dev time/costs by focusing on what people actually play
uneven scarab
Community perception also still kinda digs this spec into a hole
acoustic lodge
^
uneven scarab
“pvp spec”
acoustic lodge
Facts
lilac stag
@tepid trellis you around? 
vale pine
it also makes a lot of sense why assassiantion is typically tuned higher since S4 or gets more attention, it is easy to pick up and perform compared to more complex designs like subtlety has.
swift tinsel
and has a lot of important niches like funnel, execute, etc
swift tinsel
Edge of Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
uneven scarab
vale pine
wdym
swift tinsel
with Edge of Night
swift tinsel
Idk if that's true
swift tinsel
unless you mean devs
uneven scarab
besides hacha maybe
swift tinsel
the 10.2 rework felt like they grabbed prev legendaries, azerite powers, and cov abilities and threw them in
shell willow
goremaw is kinda pvp niche
vale pine
the problem comes from it solving a problem that does not exist anymore
swift tinsel
It can be a pvp talent
uneven scarab
It doesnt really fit with the way sub plays at all rn
vale pine
we don't struggle with energy
acoustic lodge
Tbh edge of night was legit. I wish they’d give us another cool weapon interaction like that
swift tinsel
yeah we don't care about energy
shell willow
it needs to be redesigned or binned
solemn creek
with Edge of Night
Yes plz
swift tinsel
and as an in-between cd button it doesn't really do much to fix like you said a problem that doesn't exist
swift tinsel
having an opt-in execute would be so much better
acoustic lodge
Midnight will be our expansion for a sub rework. I can feel it
vale pine
also told me how they would change EVERYTHING about the spell
basiclaly making it a completely new spell
just keeping the name
shell willow
execute would make this spec a shoe in though you'd swap been sin and sub based on fight timers at that point
uneven scarab
I mean the name is cool
swift tinsel
also I'd like to see weaponmaster and swift death swapped
uneven scarab
execute would make this spec a shoe in though you'd swap been sin and sub based ...
You already kinda do that though
swift tinsel
since the lower left is all SoD talents
uneven scarab
the right side of the tree is really where i question stuff
vale pine
one example
vale pine
"what if goremaws instead of giving energy empowered a finisher to do more damage"
"and make it give you full combo points"
swift tinsel
so combined flag/blades
clever delta
rewrite the trinket guides righ meow
swift tinsel
mini
vale pine
"and it should do at least as much damage as secret technique"
"maybe it should cleave too"
wild hornet
what if goremaw acted like touch of death but it was from 95% health instead
still sundial
Sounds good, ship it
swift tinsel
"and also does my taxes and laundry"
I think all of that points to the issue of goremaw in that if you replaced it with anything else, its a positive change
vale pine
don't get me wrong, a goremaws which is a auto cleave secret technqiue, fills your full combo bar and gives you 3 charges of supercharger sounds great
but thats exactly my point
thats not goremaws
thats a new spell
shell willow
haha word
swift tinsel
put goremaw where tornado is
still sundial
Make it half cd if target is below 30% too
wild hornet
i think in faith of this season goremaw should have the following stats:
99.99% chance with a successful crit that you oneshot the target youre hitting...
0.01% chance you get banned from the game
swift tinsel
I think anything builder-related doesn't really belong, so scrap WM, PV, Lingering
shell willow
if it was like a version of serrated bone. on pull you stab em with goremaw and all your shadow damage done infuses the dagger when you are ready you reactivate to release all the stored damage
still sundial
i think in faith of this season goremaw should have the following stats:
99.99%...
This is the gambling season..
swift tinsel
unless its dance-dependent and buffs strike
wild hornet
This is the gambling season..
exactly
swift tinsel
sub is super fun
shell willow
sub is an absolute blast
wild hornet
ret got a bit boring
swift tinsel
I think if we had some options to change the flavor of some of that fun, it's healthy
uneven scarab
Just give all rogue specs iron wire and we can be meta too
wild hornet
at least i hope this season i get pink parses
shell willow
reminds me of ret when it was a 2min burst spec
wild hornet
and not give up on sub
swift tinsel
if they take 1.5min niche and make us 1min or 2, that's bad
still sundial
Just give all rogue specs iron wire and we can be meta too
Except everyone was dropping iron wire end of season lol
wild hornet
reminds me of ret when it was a 2min burst spec
it reminds me of when there were different colored judgments
and everyone was a mouse clicker
shell willow
lol that is a call back to a dark time bro
uneven scarab
Except everyone was dropping iron wire end of season lol
Well yeah end of season its alot less strong
vale pine
Just give all rogue specs iron wire and we can be meta too
doing a lot of damage with low effort is part of why assassiantion was so dominant in s1 😉
karmic hull
Red was OP bro
shell willow
ret got way too boring for me no complexity
shell willow
I like sub having to actually think
vale pine
its not all iron wire
wild hornet
silken and queen
uneven scarab
doing a lot of damage with low effort is part of why assassiantion was so domina...
Literally just garrote/rupture and you’re already cranking
swift tinsel
ret gets holy power thrown at them at breakneck speed, it feels kinda bad
wild hornet
(i had 0 choice i had to)
vale pine
the spec had iron wire in DF already
shell willow
just hate not being able to like tank or heal for faster q's but sobeit
vale pine
its just that
wild hornet
ret gets holy power thrown at them at breakneck speed, it feels kinda bad
yeah at one point i got an insane amount of
divine purpose procs
vale pine
assassiantion did look completely busted in m+ since beta
wild hornet
and the free DS cast
vale pine
and somehow dodged all nerfs
wild hornet
on top of that
vestal escarp
@vale pine source for sub is you?
vale pine
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> source for sub is you?
wowhead took the guides and extracted the information
karmic hull
Arcane lol
wild hornet
<@194804407706189824> source for sub is you?
is that at what ilvl you drop the ring?
swift tinsel
lemme de-ilvl my ring plz
shell willow
Do we drop it due to the amount of stats lose? The TOP ring is a ton of vers and mastery. @vale pine
swift tinsel
top ring 678 is bis
vale pine
Do we drop it due to the amount of stats lose? The TOP ring is a ton of vers and...
there is the effect ring too
its like 0.3% dps diffrence
which is rly low
still means we will use the ring for quite a while
shell willow
i'll likely start running top gears next week but i figured we'd keep the ring for quite sometime
swift tinsel
which goes against their directly-stated goal for the ring lmao
shell willow
half way through season replace
swift tinsel
they wanted it to be heroic-competetive
wild hornet
i'll likely start running top gears next week but i figured we'd keep the ring f...
mythic rings are a pain to get
especially before you get one with dinars
swift tinsel
but replaced before mythic gear
shell willow
yeah the mythic rings are likely dinars
vale pine
ye
wild hornet
it being irrelevant in 11.1?
being starter for the season
vale pine
some tanks
swift tinsel
lemme see if I can find the post
swift tinsel
but basically the stated intent is to have circlet until you get max hero track rings
wild hornet
might play the ring in s3
if they give it a few ilvls it could be a possibility
shell willow
lol unless they nerf the ring not happening
wild hornet
like for ret if they could use 2 they would
wild hornet
lol unless they nerf the ring not happening
theyre nerfing it .5 / .7
shell willow
I'm fine with them being solid for s2 and getting replaced in s3
the ring choices are kinda walls to acquire
wild hornet
i still have 0 clue why they make a majority of bis gear on the last bosses
shell willow
atleast it isnt weapons
wild hornet
true that would be worse
shell willow
this season is especially bad in that respect
vale pine
tbh all these short term systems are easy to solve
just give players who did not play the content
a option to get the ring
via a dialog or so
wild hornet
just give players who did not play the content
cant they get it now?
shell willow
yeah on a new character it is a few hours to get it upgraded which isnt terrible when you think about the dps gain
swift tinsel
the full upgrade is an hour, maybe two. not sure how long it takes to get gems
vale pine
and people hate to need to go back to old content to get current content power level
bleak night
its pretty low effort
wild hornet
the full upgrade is an hour, maybe two. not sure how long it takes to get gems
if you get them on a main char
u can buy them
swift tinsel
yeah
bleak night
but i agree people shouldnt need to go back and farm old content to do current content
bleak night
its fast
wild hornet
except where stalagmatos was bugged
bleak night
you can straight up buy skipper even without having it before
wild hornet
and people were farming him for hours
bleak night
and the bosses are perma dying
shell willow
when you think about the time investment and roi for the item it think it is a pretty fair trade off
whats the alternative? Farming M+ for a trinket that WILL NEVER DROP
wild hornet
i think they should make dungeons and raids mutually exclusive
as in being able to get fully geared with only one
vale pine
splitting content isn't good
bleak night
that sounds like a terrible idea
wild hornet
i was just about to say im coming with the worst take
uneven scarab
Bring me back to doti farming 60+ runs for the daggers
swift tinsel
NO
uneven scarab
Great times
shell willow
oof
bleak night
me when i never got the dagger
uneven scarab
I got two back to back after the 60 runs lmao
vale pine
like let me give you one example
wild hornet
uneven scarab
crazy
vale pine
we currently have delves, m+ and raid
now lets assume you can only farm gear for the content you do
so delve gear would only be upscaled to work during delves
acoustic lodge
Delves are so bad
vale pine
mythic+ gear only upscaled in mythic+
bleak night
when is blizzard going to give up and admit transmog is more of a pillar content for wow than delves
swift tinsel
I actually quite like delves
bleak night
i dont think they're terrible
vale pine
and raid gear only upscaled in raid
for blizz this would be insane
because you now created 3 times the content
bleak night
but i dont think they deserve to be a pillar like they claim they want it to be
vale pine
because if you would want to paly mythic+ you suddenly can throw out all other gear and only can farm in m+
bleak night
they do keep improving them though so maybe my opinion changes in a few years
vale pine
and for delves/raid the same
wild hornet
by mutually exclusive i didnt mean that you can only use the gear for raid/mplus
wild hornet
i meant about being able to fully gear from 1 to do something else
shell willow
This is why pvp is so frustrating
To play optimally you effectively need multiple gear sets
vale pine
by mutually exclusive i didnt mean that you can only use the gear for raid/mplus
i mean thats what mutally exclusive means
no?
wild hornet
i mean thats what mutally exclusive means
bad wording then
i meant being able to fully gear from 1
shell willow
Which increases play time but its annoying as hell
wild hornet
without the need of the other
vale pine
like, per definition
shell willow
that gets boring and kills the player pop
wild hornet
Which increases play time but its annoying as hell
i mean for the most part pvpers only pvp
bleak night
To play optimally you effectively need multiple gear sets
they almost fixed this in wod by standardizing stats
but people lost their shit
swift tinsel
having multiple pathways allows for more engagement
bc if you only get gear from raid which you kill each boss once
vale pine
the opposite would be
shell willow
Yeah also speeds up gear acquisiton
swift tinsel
you're hard locked out
shell willow
without M+ seasons would have to last a whole year or you'd have to run lfr/normal/heroic every week
wild hornet
without M+ seasons would have to last a whole year or you'd have to run lfr/norm...
theres a lot of improvement for an idea like mine
swift tinsel
plus raids don't give things like rio rating with prestige attached
wild hornet
i just threw it as an example
shell willow
Yeah of course but whats the point of say doing m+ if the best gear comes out of raiding.
wild hornet
some people do it for the challenge
shell willow
Lol
wild hornet
i only do it so i dont get benched
shell willow
human psychology will go to the path of least resistance
swift tinsel
titles
wild hornet
my tipping point was bieng in q for 1 day and bricking 3 keys
wanton flame
What is the best way of gearing alt chars now to 638 ish? Have a fresh toon i want to get going until next week! Any smart tips that came with the patch?
shell willow
the m+ community would die
swift tinsel
most of the time the best weapons and trinkets come from raid
bleak night
if pvp didnt give gear competitive gear it would immediately die
swift tinsel
you don't see m+ dying those seasons
bleak night
99% of the community dont are about the ladder or challenges
shell willow
Yes because there are gear incentives to do keys
bleak night
you don't see m+ dying those seasons
because it still gives competitive gear, even if it isnt bis
shell willow
notice how once we get into latter in the season key competion rate tanks
bleak night
and even then m+ did see a downturn in seasons where gearing was easy
swift tinsel
but why do people keep pushing dungeons when they're effectively gear capped
bleak night
but why do people keep pushing dungeons when they're effectively gear capped
thats an incredibly small amount of the playerbase
random hare
also still no font with unicode support
whats that
shell willow
no need to run keys
vale pine
you need to farm months of raid to get gear
wild hornet
yeah as you said there could be token systems for each
since it is indeed insane farming for a year to be full mythic
vale pine
whats that
support for diffrent alphabets, basically a font which does not show [] on e.g. russian names
shell willow
The first week of every season i usually run damn near 60 keys to try and replace as much gear as I possibly can. If raiding was the only gearing system most people would just raid log and call it.
vale pine
you need to farm months of raid to get gear
^ meanwhile you could nolife mythic+ for 2 weeks and ended up pmuch "set" in gear for the entire patch
at least thats how it worked for 2 xpacs
random hare
support for diffrent alphabets, basically a font which does not show [] on e.g. ...
how do i add that idk
wild hornet
^ meanwhile you could nolife mythic+ for 2 weeks and ended up pmuch "set" in gea...
i mean you get heroic gear at best
not mythic
would take about the same amount of time
bleak night
heroic gear is effectively bis for the majority of the playerbase
shell willow
thats a big ilevel increase and dps gain though
vale pine
upgrade tracks ended up very close
between heroc and mythic
only this xpac
introduced a big "gap"
so even with upgrade tracks, you had high power level from doing mythic+
wild hornet
i mean yeah, mplus is the fast gear path up to heroic and then raids was for the better loot
vale pine
it was partly so extreme that guilds simply kicked people who did not do enough m+
because due to their opinions,
wild hornet
it was partly so extreme that guilds simply kicked people who did not do enough ...
i got benched once
vale pine
they sabotaged the raid and inted
shell willow
we can likely farm 10s next week the drops are 655
wild hornet
cuz of that
vale pine
or in other words
wild hornet
and i was trying to queue mplus
shell willow
that is a substantial power increase
wild hornet
maybe my first mistake was being in q as ret instead of prot
shell willow
the only limiting factor is time and drops and stats
vale pine
"should not be raiding mythic, rather do some world quests"
bleak night
maybe my first mistake was being in q as ret instead of prot
you queueing as ret
wild hornet
you queueing as ret
yeah i prob will only q as prot
shell willow
lol tough sledding
vale pine
we can likely farm 10s next week the drops are 655
it was a big "missstep" in season 1 to not allow people to grind power level excessively
wild hornet
i got burnt out this season and stopped at 2.7k rating
and just finished ce last week
vale pine
i wonder if that changed in s2 noticably
vale pine
yep
shell willow
I'm torn. I like the degen but its not healthy so if they have to put up guardrails for me sobeit
swift tinsel
removing myth track from the m+ end of dungeon was an interesting move
wild hornet
removing myth track from the m+ end of dungeon was an interesting move
think it was for the better
swift tinsel
I get they wanted to slow down acquisition
swift tinsel
you get 3 chances at myth track gear in vault per week from m+
vs raid where you get 3 vault chances + however many bosses you kill
shell willow
They attest it is so why dampen the rewards unless it is the little brother to raiding
swift tinsel
and can do funnels and whatnot
shell willow
Yeah but that requires coordination and friends lol
swift tinsel
so a guild
shell willow
Lol you wont find me complaining
bleak night
they could maybe do something similar to how weeklies work
swift tinsel
and I'd argue more often than not a mythic guild has loot considerations
bleak night
x number of keys at y lvl will drop a mythic piece
shell willow
i mean im only fighting for tier slots basically
swift tinsel
m+ is tricky with how timing and chests work
shell willow
daggers are all mine and offspec pieces that are vers/mast are basically mine as well
swift tinsel
daggers are all mine and offspec pieces that are vers/mast are basically mine as...
lol same
its nice
wild hornet
same
shell willow
yeah i love it
shell willow
yeah thats why i swapped
bleak night
in amirdrassil igira would not stop dropping daggers
wild hornet
so i just got sent to the yellow chamber
bleak night
and i was the only rogue lmao
sour girder
in amirdrassil igira would not stop dropping daggers
Fucking igira man
shell willow
My biggest gripe is the stat distribution being so different between the 3 specs its obscene
wild hornet
while being 1/2 max
wild hornet
My biggest gripe is the stat distribution being so different between the 3 specs...
need a whole new item set
just to offspec
bleak night
My biggest gripe is the stat distribution being so different between the 3 specs...
tbf its really just between sub and outlaw
sin can use either sub or outlaw gear perfectly fine
swift crest
My biggest gripe is the stat distribution being so different between the 3 specs...
big true
shell willow
outlaw hates mastery though
swift tinsel
and we dont like haste lol
bleak night
thats what im saying
shell willow
like you really need 3 different sets
bleak night
the gap is big between sub and outlaw
swift tinsel
perfect mismatch
lilac stag
like you really need 3 different sets
- To play assa you need to replace a ring and a neck and that’s about it.
shell willow
sin wants a little of everything vers aint a killer but i'd rather be more mastery/haste as sin
alpine wraith
next raid not even a ring
bleak night
blizzard saving you from even considering playing outlaw
alpine wraith
as both use jastor
swift tinsel
I kinda love our stat preference as sub
uneven scarab
blizzard saving you from even considering playing outlaw
you MUST get 20% haste
wild hornet
blizzard saving you from even considering playing outlaw
id be happy to play outlaw aswell
but im avoiding assa like the plague
alpine wraith
and even if bone ring or wheel sim better im not taking signet off for 1k dps
lilac stag
Jastor DN
wild hornet
and even if bone ring or wheel sim better im not taking signet off for 1k dps
signet brand?
alpine wraith
- raid people also proc things
wild hornet
that trinket was so goated
lilac stag
I kinda want to run NE if I get it.
alpine wraith
circe's signet
bleak night
me when i get a slightly better ring so take off circes to fuck the raid
swift tinsel
A. No one else wants our rings/neck/off pieces
B. We're very tanky in raid and m+
C. We get a bonus when we use damaging trinkets
alpine wraith
i will once again be weird likely i kinda want to use engi helmet and wrist again big mastery enjoyer
it is nice boots are boe with vers mastery
so i can craft belt
keen dome
Hell yeah, being weird and being a Sub rogue
swift tinsel
how much haste do you end up with with tier gloves?
keen dome
hand-in-hand. (this is good)
shell willow
I kinda love our stat preference as sub
1000%
swift tinsel
if you go engi helm
alpine wraith
not much more
swift tinsel
and what's the mastery diff?
wild hornet
stacking vers in dragonflight gave me nightmares
alpine wraith
also mastery stonks with ring trust
wild hornet
and being slapped by bosses
swift tinsel
fr fr
alpine wraith
around 7k more mastery almost
bleak night
stacking vers is bis
swift tinsel
jeez
wild hornet
stacking vers is bis
i was on ret then
wild hornet
so when tanks die im their first target
alpine wraith
jastor is too good tho
swift tinsel
with all gems and enchants
alpine wraith
so that one instead of wheel is like 2k less but still
swift tinsel
yeah
swift tinsel
they've already nerfed the stat steal once didn't they
alpine wraith
imagine giving jastor to a rogue
bleak night
imagine getting jastors
maybe wont need to spend dinar on kezan
then jastors will be mine
swift tinsel
If I could hard-res an m+ item it'd be top ring
alpine wraith
the bad thing also of being in a decent but not op guild is that i will likely have 2 vaults filled with M items that cant be jastor
and only 1 slot with hc
for so long
swift tinsel
we always extend our mythic clear lockout and kill each boss once
so its heroic farm slots in vault
except first week of mythic prog if we kill 2 bosses lol
bleak night
yeah my last guild basically never recleared once we got about halfway through
shell willow
Yeah depends on the tuning
bleak night
so i never got mythic pieces lmao
swift tinsel
like last tier I think we killed first two bosses twice but only sikran and rash onces
shell willow
Once we started on silken court we were locking out
alpine wraith
that is kinda sad
swift tinsel
luckily got dagger on first myth bloodbeast kill
never saw a stitchflesh dagger all season so I have a hero-track delve oh
alpine wraith
my off hand is a crafted one
bleak night
swift tinsel
I debated crafting but I think the gain was minimal since my oh is already crit/mastery
i forget what the % dif was
next fjord
That's why I did an offhand
swift tinsel
my gilded crests were at a bit of a premium on my rogue since I swapped back later in the season and missed like 8 clears worth and didn't do as much m+ by that time
swift tinsel
didn't realize I only did 6 heroic clears and 1 kill of mythic first 4 bosses lol
uneven scarab
felt like it took forever to get any
tepid trellis
<@83652604344664064> you around? <:Trashpandascheme:1082778449015480330>
Waddup?
slate lantern
Racoon gang
swift tinsel
mainly cuz i was playing 3 characters after aotc but
this was my issue too, did all of prog as mage then couldn't decided what to play instead and settled back on rogue after trying a few others
alpine wraith
got a buff you missed it
rain ingot
!wa
alpine wraith
still does not cleave tho
swift tinsel
gonna try and only play rogue for the season and not divert my attention all over the place like I have since cata lol
uneven scarab
gonna try and only play rogue for the season and not divert my attention all ove...
Still trying to figure out if i wanna switch it up this season, been progging as sub forever now
swift tinsel
was an lfr hero for SO long so the concept of locking in to one character didn't really matter
uneven scarab
Mage does sound enticing
shell willow
just stick with 2 alts and a main raid toon
vale pine
Okay, my wishlist for this raid:
#1 Subtlety rogue > Assassination rogues for the higher dynamic it brings.
#2 People not undervaluing the benefits of "no parry" we provide.
#3 Raid strategies starting to utialize [spell=382507] for raid mobility.
swift tinsel
SL was the first time I joined a raiding guild since Wotlk
swift tinsel
hahahaha
shell willow
lol
swift tinsel
that's shroud boost right
alpine wraith
fuu is talking in numbers
vale pine
its Shrouded in Darkness
ember hound
fuu the no parry thing with trickster is a bug tho yeah?
swift tinsel
1000%
vale pine
alpine wraith
call it a feature
swift tinsel
might as well be a raidbuff at this point
vale pine
fuu the no parry thing with trickster is a bug tho yeah?
exists since beta now 
it is a bug
swift tinsel
but we don't wanna say that part too loud
vale pine
but also, i like it
lilac stag
Waddup?
I got tossed back to rogue on Queen last night. They’re going to have me do a platform portal. What portal would be best for our CDs? Hold them on shield and full send plat 1?
bleak night
its Shrouded in Darkness
wait yeah
ember hound
so no parry for all of melee if you have a trickster correct?
bleak night
isnt it basically a roar
vale pine
yes
swift tinsel
so no parry for all of melee if you have a trickster correct?
correct
bleak night
just it has to line up with your shadowdance
ember hound
crazy
bleak night
so a bit more restrictive
uneven scarab
Prot pallies/dks’s been kissing my feet for this one forever now
swift tinsel
you'll still get 1 or 2 bc its not up 100% of the time but its a large improvement
vale pine
but you can reduce the cooldown
ember hound
yeah
swift tinsel
lemme find something quick from the other night
vale pine
so can have it quite frequently
ember hound
its from fazed right?
uneven scarab
its from fazed right?
ye
tepid trellis
I got tossed back to rogue on Queen last night. They’re going to have me do a ...
2x in p1 and hold for platform 1, then you are probably gonna do a portal on platform 2/3
and then you have 2x cds in p3
swift tinsel
from our fury warrior for a full clear
ember hound
thats sick
lilac stag
2x in p1 and hold for platform 1, then you are probably gonna do a portal on pla...
Kk. Thanks
swift tinsel
now multiply that by every melee
and their respective dps implications of landing most melee hits
for resource gen, procs, etc
tepid trellis
and if you wanna help with killing spiders in p3 you time your first set of cds, so you flag when she starts moving to the corner for spider drops
then your 2nd dance sectech will rdy to snipe spiders
wild hornet
Okay, my wishlist for this raid:
#1 Subtlety rogue > Assassination rogues for th...
live laugh love cunning elusion
dense mountain
Okay, my wishlist for this raid:
#1 Subtlety rogue > Assassination rogues for th...
does the no parry effect from fazed make the boss not able to parry the entire raid's attack? I assumed it just applied to myself
swift tinsel
does the no parry effect from fazed make the boss not able to parry the entire r...
whole raid
dense mountain
holyyy
i thought it was just me
its worded as "your attacks". blizzard tooltip moment i guess
lilac stag
then your 2nd dance sectech will rdy to snipe spiders
I think our havoc will annihilate them
tepid trellis
you can snipe them faster than any other class
think i did 80m to them in 3 seconds
wild hornet
havocs arent that fast or smart
lilac stag
Shoes were comfy last night. #subtlety message
wild hornet
they take their sweet time with fel rush and beam
spice saffron
!log
vale pine
wait yeah
hmm, not sure if it works in combat
i thought it did, but got told it does not
alpine wraith
they need to be out of combat to get the buff
vale pine
yes, but not your raid members
lilac stag
@tepid trellis did you clear this week? Didn’t see a log when I looked yesterday.
bleak night
just make them all go shadowmeld
tepid trellis
<@83652604344664064> did you clear this week? Didn’t see a log when I looked yes...
no we arent raiding
vale pine
you can just use it with vanish/dance
tepid trellis
we never raid on prepatch
vale pine
but if its only applying the speed buff to you
tepid trellis
we thought about doing it
vale pine
limits the use
tepid trellis
but we only needed ansurek ring on people
bleak night
yeah that definitely ruins the plan
tepid trellis
and that thing is obsolete after a few days of m+
lilac stag
makes sense
alpine wraith
they are getting their asses ready
to farm ToP
also this trinket from cinderbrew for tanks holy
need tank to sit on pull
to get crit
want agi
uneven scarab
Yeah that one just got buffed too
latent parcel
Any video guide for m+, pref aimed at a 5 year old.
alpine wraith
have many m+ videos but best you can do is just ask if you ahve any questions
uneven scarab
Best way to do it for sub
alpine wraith
m+ is a bit more complicated than just st or aoe
shell willow
then apply it in a key and fail fast and try again
alpine wraith
best advice i can give is that if you see no shaman on the group
suddenly you need to have piano classes and gtg
still vector
im having some trouble after the opener, what should we do after we are outside our burst window?
manic ivy
why is my cb + st macro not working in combat wtf
vale pine
im having some trouble after the opener, what should we do after we are outside ...
relax
you essentially fire your cooldowns
alpine wraith
why is my cb + st macro not working in combat wtf
it is telling you it is time to go
alpine wraith
gotta separate them
still vector
hahaha
manic ivy
it is telling you it is time to go
:(
still vector
i can do that
vale pine
and press some storm/bp and spread ruptures to everything that survives a bit longer
lilac stag
Or you speced fate assa
manic ivy
IT IS I SWEAR
stoic forge
What is that macro? I'm new to sub. 😦
still vector
and press some storm/bp and spread ruptures to everything that survives a bit lo...
will do thanks fuu.
slate lantern
What is that macro? I'm new to sub. 😦
No macro
frank musk
There is no macro, there is only the Sub.
vale pine
and if you get secret ready
hollow spear
we want cold blood to be < 12 seconds when we go into flag right?
vale pine
you can do symbols dance and secret
lilac stag
a bad macro
A good macro for second secret. A bad one for the first.
hollow spear
still trying to get a rhythm for the cb between bursts....
vestal escarp
3m overall dawn 16 before last boss
vale pine
nicuu
vestal escarp
ret is stupid
at wake 17 first pull i was 14M peak he was 11M
bro 11M with no burst class?
wild hornet
i mean
vestal escarp
literally uncapped OL
vestal escarp
pirates seetheing at pink class
the hero talent dot
stacks like crazy during wake
wild hornet
the hero talent dot
which?
vestal escarp
and still ticks after
wild hornet
you mean shake the heavens?
vestal escarp
empyrean hammers
wild hornet
yeah u can carry over shake the heavens if youre fast enough
swift tinsel
yeah hammers were doing bonkers damage for a whiiiiile