It’s amazing
#subtlety
jaunty heath
alpine wraith
well in 1 way being able to move a dance anywhere is also a strenght
as assa you cant really just move a shiv and expect to do some extra dmg
because then you mess up kb
or as outlaw well
sly shore
it's so funny dropping shadow focus for imp sstorm is a 4k dps loss in single target
what a dog shit talent
sly shore
muted plaza
hey guys, i used to be an outlaw main. Would you say sub is easy to pick up? and is harder or easier to play the outlaw
hazy breach
Both are kinda ass tbh, but ye leeching poison better
keen dome
I assume you mean soothing darkness, right?
But I bet we're hitting so hard this tier that leeching is gonna rule. Gonna get such good healing parses.
short radish
ikr can people start sandbagging please for the first 2 weeks
so we dont get nerf'd
alpine wraith
yep leeching poison is better than soothing
short radish
looking at you @tribal blade
short radish
tribal blade
i only did.. 3 bosses 🙂
tribal blade
my rank 1 court parse is still holding strong somehow
tribal blade
i wouldn't worry though, i'm not gonna do good damage in the first 2 weeks
while i'm learning the bosses
but that's just me
alpine wraith
i got quite close to getting a rank 1 in bloodbound first weeks
but didnt have transmitter unlucl
i did have the hidden tech tho ehehe
kiss of the dead+ another on use
before they fixed
stiff stirrup
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.!symbols
proven plover
i got quite close to getting a rank 1 in bloodbound first weeks
I had r1 on blood, but on outlul 
stiff stirrup
whats that macro so we dont spam 2 symbols?
vestal escarp
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
lilac stag
Crit/Vers dagger from weekly. 
random hare
@tepid trellis
alpine wraith
will check later but people seem city is fine on eu rn
random hare
About coup de grace, not sure if it’s a bug or not but I rarely don’t get coup back inside of cds
Any comments?
alpine wraith
only rng about coup is resets outside
you sometimes get it outside dance but not super often because sec tech gives you 2
so every combination of more than 1 stack usually gets coup inside dance
so unless you just used coup before entering dance(it is neutral but feels bad and i would not do it)
that is why you kinda hold it if dance is like 10 secs away
random hare
So it can happen ye?
alpine wraith
sometimes
alpine wraith
well right now apart from what has been found only thing you can do is gamble one way or another
no full wins
hazy breach
So it can happen ye?
Ye if you start your burst with 0 stacks it can happen
haughty mural
it’s been fine every time I’ve been on.
WM on or off ?
lilac stag
off. Some of the events get a bit of lag but not like release
tribal blade
@hazy breach does the dmg increase to nimble change anything regarding mass aoe outside of dance
hazy breach
I dont think so
tribal blade
i'm guessing it's still not worth backstabbing to proc it
tribal blade
I dont think so
cool cool
hazy breach
On mass aoe you would bp anyway right
so its like 4 or 5 targets it might be a small gain maybe
But its also less cdr
So its probably just a wash
tribal blade
yeah it's all kinda awkward
alpine wraith
in mass aoe you dont really drop flawless that much because you can sec tech
even without SoD if needed sometimes
tribal blade
yeah that's true
alpine wraith
but even then bp is doing more you are only really cleaving autos at that time
instead of evis
tribal blade
i just sometimes have to fight the urge to press backstab because i see flawless dropping
alpine wraith
ahaha
tribal blade
it's a bad feeling
alpine wraith
well new season dungeons there is no super mass aoe except priory
but it is kinda danger
or well motherlode too but same
those are big boi pulls
tribal blade
just from watching some of the streamers it did look like there were quite a few big pulls, but that's like rank 1 players doing mongo limit testing stuff haha
tribal blade
yeah you're always pushing the boundaries of wiping
lilac wharf
alpine wraith
you can type !help and it sends you some commands no idea if they are all of them tho
short radish
i don thtink that gets updated often enough
keen dome
BIG CRITS for BIG BOYS
swift tinsel
Season of Sub acknowledgement
sudden tree
isnt CDG being swapped to Evisc automaticly?
swift tinsel
Ye
quick swan
Thats a stretch
keen dome
It's the best key for Sub, right?
swift tinsel
Too bad everyone else hates it lol
keen dome
SV+10 and it was just
such an insane walk in the park
I love keys right now
15 minute +10 SV, so chill
swift tinsel
Are the dungeon nerfs that noticeable too?
proven plover
I'm dooming, its over
keen dome
So this is the week to knock portals out
proven plover
current numbers will kill us
remote shuttle
It's the best key for Sub, right?
Best for TFD surely
keen dome
Best for TFD surely
ye, but also third boss for physical
swift tinsel
DB is TFD heaven too
keen dome
Also second boss is cleave city
tribal blade
i mostly preferred sub in city because you're just way tankier than sin
last boss i'm not panicking
as sin i was
swift tinsel
Existing as sub + Feint
alpine wraith
IN CITY
it was always good yea because lots of tfd same with downbraker you can also get some superchargers going while rp is doing things
swift tinsel
Live lord
hazy breach
HOW DID WE NOT PLAY SUB MAN
alpine wraith
eleem with the I TOLD YA SO
hazy breach
But assa ended up doing fine damage in city anyway, carrying the after second boss part
Whereas sub was doing kinda mid damage there
vestal escarp
Yeah sin picks up there
tribal blade
sin prio and funnel was just insane in city too
vestal escarp
You have 2 massive pulls after second boss
tribal blade
you deleted the important mobs
vestal escarp
And you cant flag both
hazy breach
Also if you get "too lucky" with the amogus game you end up with really cringe cd timings
leaden prairie
its the most op shit in the planet
you know sub got buffed quite a lot
leaden prairie
an 18 is like
alpine wraith
praise me im the biggest punner
leaden prairie
a 15 anyuwya
keen dome
praise me im the biggest punner
punny.
alpine wraith
you still need to upgrade the keys anyway if you want to get to like the 25 that was an old 20 i think?
leaden prairie
who has the key conversion system
alpine wraith
no idea tbh they have changed it so much
leaden prairie
old vs new scaling
keen dome
I think Haptics had an image of it somewhere..
leaden prairie
i think its like -5 key level lol
swift tinsel
Lemme find the link
keen dome
Like a +10 feels easily like a 6/7
vestal escarp
should be 6
alpine wraith
vestal escarp
in DF between seasons it was 6
keen dome
It's insane how easy that SV+10 just was, a dungeon I was fucking scared to attempt last week
alpine wraith
might be more than 5
swift tinsel
leaden prairie
so a 18 is a 14
alpine wraith
this week is a weird one tho
keen dome
Hell yeah
tribal blade
14s are chill
alpine wraith
because the m0 ones are still not out and those will have new baselines
leaden prairie
this week is weird cuase you lose aug
alpine wraith
so it makes sense for the scaling to be lesser
keen dome
Best week to finish off portals, though.
keen dome
Also they're just fun doing astrnomical damage in 10's
swift tinsel
Same I need six lol
kindred saffron
Rip aug ~~
alpine wraith
aug is now just another dps
keen dome
A quick in and out
swift tinsel
I have mists and nw portal
alpine wraith
might be decent with sub actually
swift tinsel
Two that aren’t coming back in s3 lol
tribal blade
that's kind of nuts that portals have a certain amount of difficulty to get and then at the end of the season you can just blast em out when the scaling is wack
alpine wraith
i have i think dawn mists and nw
leaden prairie
@faint basalt gratz on taking back r1 sub 
keen dome
that's kind of nuts that portals have a certain amount of difficulty to get and ...
To be fair this season was just way to hard for too long.
random hare
a 15 anyuwya
a real 18 sub would do way more lol
what are u smoking
u will have ur 1.5min cd for all adds
keen dome
But yeah, I hope next season is just smoother
random hare
at the start
leaden prairie
yes? i didnt say the opposite
tribal blade
To be fair this season was just way to hard for too long.
i feel like every season is kinda the same
alpine wraith
it will happen same thing kinda with the way they made seasons work
keen dome
i feel like every season is kinda the same
yeah true
alpine wraith
s2->s3
keen dome
yeah
random hare
leaden prairie
a real 18 sub would do way more lol
just saying sub got massive buffs
keen dome
Being lazy wins again
leaden prairie
make sense we werent playing it before yoiu know
swift tinsel
S3 sub rework
alpine wraith
now im just hyped to sell my 400000 depths enchants
keen dome
S3 sub rework
swift tinsel
We call in orbital strikes on each pull
alpine wraith
when patch hits
leaden prairie
1min 30 in high keys lines up good
swift tinsel
Hard lock-in meta pick
leaden prairie
you can 1min30 every set of miniboss
random hare
just saying sub got massive buffs
how big were the buffs tho
leaden prairie
in a 19
swift tinsel
Stack 3 sub rogues
alpine wraith
i will have the most mastery of them all again!
random hare
@hazy breach how big are the sub buffs?
alpine wraith
baseline got buffed quite a bit
hazy breach
18% or so
leaden prairie
ye
alpine wraith
yea around that
leaden prairie
like
random hare
oh shit
leaden prairie
keen dome
Big flurry buff
random hare
or
alpine wraith
pre buff it was mighty decent
tribal blade
not bad, but not great
alpine wraith
now it is a blaster
swift tinsel
Shhhh
leaden prairie
pre buff
I mean i have considered goign sub for 19 city ye
but then i never did it
alpine wraith
you are way more tanky
alpine wraith
but dmg situation you won some lost some
alpine wraith
as someone said the tfd and supercharged things you could do gave you some power
twilit phoenix
I think at this point going “xd” is more cringe than “XD”
alpine wraith
xd
leaden prairie
there are no rogues in tgp
basically what happen is
twilit phoenix
We’ve come full circle
hazy breach
Enhance 2 min was just too strong, so you always ended up with scuffed pulls for sub
leaden prairie
and takes forever
hazy breach
Not in city specifically, but in general
leaden prairie
sin was good for that
random hare
dude i just did city and
when i dont use cds
the pack lives forever
LOL
i think im just playing with noobs tho
vestal escarp
bandwagoners discovering sub in keys
shrewd shadow
bandwagoners discovering sub in keys
swift tinsel
Get more eyes on the spec so they can finish our 10.2 rework
leaden prairie
dude i just did city and
in high cities sub would have had cds on every pakc
leaden prairie
1min 30 timer was quite goated
swift tinsel
Why don’t you spec tea
swift tinsel
I saw casual go 2/2 vigor + tea you’re all dumb
alpine wraith
i saw someone playing tea
!!!
they were blasting
until you tell them it does not matter anyway
swift tinsel
Link them a sim, get called a fucking nerd
alpine wraith
well tea is a bit diff
hazy breach
Theres definitely a bunch of shit that could get smoothed out for sub.
alpine wraith
lots of talents only make half sense
but i think we are not escaping that prison this expansion
hazy breach
Like CB being passively on sectech (always or only sometimes)
hazy breach
Condensing flag+blades into one cd, or just remove flag and buff blades shadow damage
twilit phoenix
hazy breach
And fix dance+symbols not being macroable somehow (or condense them, but probably just fix it)
sour girder
!wa
sour girder
No was?
sour girder
Seems like a sub season (?
hazy breach
It plays exactly the same as season 1 yes
We had effectively no changes that impact our gameplay
placid elk
/s hi guys i heard sub rogue is S tier and rerolled what is rotation? i just spam black powder but it doesn't work.
twilit phoenix
shy orbit
whats sub's sims in M+?
whole abyss
Anyone know of a good updated sub video guide?
sour girder
/s hi guys i heard sub rogue is S tier and rerolled what is rotation? i just spa...
I was not going to ask that 
shy orbit
!fu
sour girder
I was going to ask what changed from df s2 to now lmao
alpine wraith
i think i will make a new one even if not much has changed
well 1 thing did change at least the CB thing is better now than before
swift tinsel
I’m have one in the edit bay but it’s 30mins and I don’t wanna finish it lol
whole abyss
I believe, a lot will need it
alpine wraith
yea they are around that you can check my 11.0.5 one it is almost the same
placid elk
finally sub feels nice to play, i missed the cold blood sec techs
alpine wraith
we dont really play around tier i will make that one apart if people like to gamble
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tribal blade
no M+ sims?
i don't think he's released in that spreadsheet yet
i don't remember the last time there was this much influx of players into this channel
prob after the DF rework
was the last time
broken spindle
!WA
alpine wraith
dont expect a lot of people until m+ begin as the first week looms more may enter
our high baseline will be very noticeable
tribal blade
the rotation is less daunting than dust gameplay too 😉
vale pine
Condensing flag+blades into one cd, or just remove flag and buff blades shadow d...
i still like the idea of just giving blades passive during dance
swift tinsel
Make dance 1min flat again
If they do that
Orrr 45 sec flat so we can still keep 1.5 min niche
alpine wraith
im in favour of murder shadowed finishers and make only strike apply FW again and make it stronger
and just make sec tech apply FW
swift tinsel
Make dance cause evisc/BP to do full shadow damage
alpine wraith
in aoe
sinful zephyr
Lets hope we are not victims in the next tuning pass
alpine wraith
nah rogue baseline is high but our peak is quite low
swift tinsel
No split
dusty totem
Just sandbag i beg all of u
alpine wraith
we get absolutely destroyed as more people get gear
hazy breach
Just sandbag i beg all of u
No 
swift tinsel
Bro if I can’t brag to my guild about briefly having world rank 35 heroic kyveza what’s the point
Ignore the fact it was before eu and Asia got 11.1
haughty mural
Condensing flag+blades into one cd, or just remove flag and buff blades shadow d...
hmm i'm liking the latter
swift tinsel
Let me have this
dusty totem
No
swift tinsel
I’m not gonna take orders from a KiR pirate
Take your flat-ass damage profile outta heeeeere
dusty totem
Honestly pretty fair although i am dirty fotm andy law s3 ass s1 and now sub s2
alpine wraith
no remorse
tbh sub is funny this season because likely we will soak the shit trinkets no one wants
while everyone gets house of cards but us as last ones
tulip gorge
our high baseline will be very noticeable
I expect a nerf after the first week of raid 
alpine wraith
oh and same with jastor
swift tinsel
Hey we get all the vers/mastery gear no one else will touch
alpine wraith
I expect a nerf after the first week of raid <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
maybe they nerf warrior and enh/ele but if they nerf sub
we are going to the gutter
tulip gorge
like it's the first time it happens
dusty totem
Hey we get all the vers/mastery gear no one else will touch
I think mage is also vers mast tho
hazy breach
Pretty sure fire just wants infinite haste
dusty totem
Ohh my friend is a dirty liar then
swift tinsel
Typical mage
lilac stag
Shocking. Buffed base spec to offset nerfed s2 tier and we slam with one of the better s1 tier sets. WOW! Meta s2 for sure.
alpine wraith
Pretty sure fire just wants infinite haste
they also got the cursed bracers back kekw
not as big of a win like back in bfa but still
hazy breach
And a weapon
swift tinsel
oh god I forgot about those
alpine wraith
ah true the zap one
swift tinsel
hyperthread wristwraps
alpine wraith
or was it from lower
lilac stag
Giga zap dn
alpine wraith
we get heart of azegamba
PROC THE 20k AGI IN CDS
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
nvm always procs outside
lilac stag
just have no CDs
wild hornet
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.!wa
swift tinsel
!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
plush roost
Can still have it
keen sinew
is it necessary to have seperate binds for shadowstrike and backstab? seems like the game sometimes fks up and hits backstab still when im in shadow dance when i have them on the same key just the different stance bar
plush roost
Just have a base sec tec button as well
plush roost
You're lucky they nerfed the tier set, we were using slice n dice kekw
swift tinsel
Me, still having SnD bound
plush roost
I started using focus macros and just made my snd that haha
swift tinsel
originally had it on G but switched that to my flag bind
placid elk
i still find myself pressing snd key when out of combat to get rid of extra cp
placid elk
it also sounds cool when you activate it
fallow nimbus
Bp animation > snd
keen sinew
is it necessary to have seperate binds for shadowstrike and backstab? seems lik...
quick bump if anyone knows
acoustic lodge
Yes, i have seperate binds
placid elk
i do and im sure most players have different binds for those
looks fine to have them on same key until you hit the bug you just described
keen sinew
kk thanks all<3
hazy breach
ye
alpine wraith
yea that one is not escapable
so best thing you can do is just hands up
oh werll
naive zodiac
alpine wraith
greetings
the invasion wont come yet dont worry
at least until monday or tuesday
grave delta
sullen hare
sly shore
haughty mural
worn cape
fathom adder
swift tinsel
keen dome
vestal escarp
uneven scarab
grave shore
I expect a nerf after the first week of raid <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
I think so , yeah
Now looks like insane damage pettern with buffed nimble fury cleave. It’s literally not legal
swift tinsel
Just pick it up immediately?
right as you pick it up shadowstep - sectech if you're further away
lilac stag
how do you guys handle transmitter if it's the orb?
The way you handle everything else. Time it with Sectech
valid flame
gotcha, and the first sec tech is pressed before or after shadow blades?
swift tinsel
either or
as long as you have blades up for when the shadow clones hit 1 second after the physical
dry plank
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
sudden tree
Why do we vanishj in opener?
proper finch
Is sub target switching friendly?
alpine wraith
Why do we vanishj in opener?
premeditation to get full cps with the next shadowstrike
otherwise you can only backstab
sudden tree
Fair
swift tinsel
I kinda like the feeling of skipping the opener vanish and using it after flag ends
leaden prairie
ah you mean that way
swift tinsel
ye
haughty mural
where my snd
swift tinsel
the first evisc in dance
you don't lose any 1k cuts procs unless you get an immediate reset
sims neutral
hazy breach
I double checked and ye that eviscerate practically doesnt matter in simc either
swift tinsel
its like .004% worse
but you get 3x sectech in your combat potion
if you vanish-strike right as flag ends
kinda like old dust
hazy breach
You could just delay the pot
leaden prairie
swift tinsel
ohhh no
hazy breach
So that doesnt matter
haughty mural
hmm
swift tinsel
! is no or not in the apl right
hazy breach
ye
swift tinsel
cool ty
vestal escarp
swift tinsel
its all coming together
vale pine
! is no or not in the apl right
! is a logical not
| is a or
& is and
swift tinsel
`!` is a logical not
`|` is a or
`&` is and
thanks!
I think I've got a pretty good idea how the pieces work together so I'm gonna do some thought experiments to practice
vale pine
one thing you might find at some parts confusing is the use of *
swift tinsel
is there a way to sim between two different apl's in one sim, or do you just do two different quick sims and compare
alpine wraith
yea you can just put the diff things in each gearset
has to be in advanced sim tho
granite river
@random hare accept me
swift tinsel
ah, I'll have to look into that a bit more
vale pine
because lines can include stuff like combo_points>=5+2*talent.x.enabled
alpine wraith
remember you need to paste the full part that you modified
vale pine
conditions use boolean logic so its 0 or "not 0" more or less
leaden prairie
is there a way to sim between two different apl's in one sim, or do you just do ...
copy="SECOND PROFILE"
vale pine
means if e.g. a cooldowns is not up or a talent is not enabled it goes to 0, and you can use that to control details
leaden prairie
you gotta copy the whole part of the apl that you chagned, so the whole actions list, that means the part taht start with an =
like if i change a line in stealth list i gotta copy the whole stealth list in the second profile
make sure you have the base apl pasted on top of your sim aswell under the default profile
swift tinsel
yeah bc it does a top to bottom check right
leaden prairie
yes
and everytime you have a xx=yy you override that xx
and then xx+=/yy just adds
to that initial list
vale pine
is there a way to sim between two different apl's in one sim, or do you just do ...
you can do stuff like this
swift tinsel
all of this is super helpful, I really appreciate the info!
hoary sun
Do the dummy's in dornogal work correctly with nimble or is it still bugged?
alpine wraith
still bugged
leaden prairie
so maybe it works with nimble !
alpine wraith
wait reallyu
leaden prairie
ye
alpine wraith
then who knows
leaden prairie
The damage wasn't correct until this reset
hoary sun
Alright ty
leaden prairie
Idk what the issue is exactly with nimble?
alpine wraith
goremaw still does not cleave
leaden prairie
I assume it's the same as with bf
hazy breach
Probably ye
leaden prairie
Or was
alpine wraith
it just added armor wrong
sand ore
Garf be nimble garf be quick
alpine wraith
or smth
sand ore
leaden prairie
or at least its good on these 2 guys
sand ore
Me when I can’t be garfed
leaden prairie
alpine wraith
you would need to pay me a bit to check on the 5 dummies
leaden prairie
nob
alpine wraith
do it then you fool!
leaden prairie
im at work
alpine wraith
same
leaden prairie
alpine wraith
unluck
sand ore
Same
swift tinsel
e.g. manual steps:
[Sim](<https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uBG5BKuTxyU...
made an apl channel in my personal discord to save these to so I can watch after work
alpine wraith
i did some videos about simc way back
vale pine
if you have questions just dm me
alpine wraith
but i stopped them for some reason maybe got busy
swift tinsel
will do!
vale pine
the apl wiki is good ye
alpine wraith
alpine wraith
ahaha
leaden prairie
i will block you
alpine wraith
pressed delete at the same time
swift tinsel
Yeah some of it is a little dense for me because I don't have any kind of coding or programming background but I do a ton of formula writing in excel and sheets so following logic strings isn't too tough
alpine wraith
when i wanted to take embed off
swift tinsel
hoping that by the time s3 comes out I can contribute some more than just bug testing on ptr
void mesa
does shadowheart work during dance windows or only literal stealth aka an actual useless point
hazy breach
does shadowheart work during dance windows or only literal stealth aka an actual...
Does not work during dance
So yes its useless
teal hemlock
Copy Account Data is greyed out on PTR but I can copy my character. How do i bring over my WAs and settings?
lilac stag
@heady dragon love to see it
swift tinsel
copy the export from retail weakauras
import into ptr weakauras
@teal hemlock
idk if copying your Interface folder works but just exporting the WA strings you want works
can do the same with plater profiles
heady dragon
<@346293680883236864> love to see it
keen dome
Hell yeah
trim lily
!wa
cobalt veldt
is the crit going to work for the shadow clones of ST or not when done this way?
alpine wraith
nope
graceful crown
ideally you want to use blood b4 or at the same time oyu cast secret
alpine wraith
no it has to be before
graceful crown
cuz if you cast it after, it will apply to your evisc instead
i have it macrod with
and it works fine
cobalt veldt
okay okay thanks
prisma void
Do we evis outside of dance?
graceful crown
yep
alpine wraith
depends with current tier yea
prisma void
new tier
alpine wraith
with new one you can choose to gamble or not depending on situation
it is your choice
on average it is at most neutral
but you wont catch my ass taking chances if next set is of cds
maybe dino the other 100000 pulls did fine
but i know my luck
cobalt veldt
and following up, this guy used CB for the second ST in his opener. Is it a gain ?
swift tinsel
yeah
prisma void
what was cb again
swift tinsel
minor, but a gain nonetheless
swift tinsel
what was cb again
cold blood
alpine wraith
well depends it will be like a 1.2% gain
swift tinsel
guaranteed crit on your next ability
void mesa
although it is good to get used to have 2 buttons anyway
couldnt you just cast sequence to save the keybind? something like ST CB ST with a reset 20
swift tinsel
well depends it will be like a 1.2% gain
when did it double?
alpine wraith
new tier set and gear
cobalt veldt
well depends it will be like a 1.2% gain
why is that acutally? btw new to the rouge game couldnt find such info on standard guides
swift tinsel
more flawless form and flag stacks
cobalt veldt
ah ye flag
prisma void
**__Subtlety WA's:__**
Class packs:
> ### <:fuu:1184251947352608768> [Fuu's](<ht...
how do we use shadowcraft wa btw
swift tinsel
how do we use shadowcraft wa btw
it plays a sound when you get a shadowcraft refund
so you know not to use a builder
cobalt veldt
need to read flawless form again xD
swift tinsel
and waste combo points
uneven scarab
need to read flawless form again xD
Its basically just % finisher damage
in a nutshell
uneven scarab
ye
cobalt veldt
makes sense
swift tinsel
and using coup on a fazed target grants 5 stacks which usually happens between your first and second sectech
on top of the ones you get from unseen blades and sectech
shy orbit
does this mean shuriken + rupture should be repeated?
cobalt veldt
uh thats true
swift tinsel
does this mean shuriken + rupture should be repeated?
yeah
shy orbit
how many enemies should have rupture on them?
swift tinsel
on to a few targets
spice saffron
is it important to use shuriken storm once before your big sectec in aoe to have find weakness on everything or does it cleave from your main target
swift tinsel
is it important to use shuriken storm once before your big sectec in aoe to have...
yes, storm once with 2nd stack of The Rotten
uneven scarab
how many enemies should have rupture on them?
doesnt matter necessarily, just rupture until your mobs are grouped, the longer you delay actual cd’s the worse
it be
hazy breach
is it important to use shuriken storm once before your big sectec in aoe to have...
Not for the sectech no. Most of sectechs damage is shadow so ti doesnt care about armor
shy orbit
doesnt matter necessarily, just rupture until your mobs are grouped, the longer ...
if theyre all grouped up, could once be enough?
lucid flume
uhm hey guys, I wanted to ask a question if someone knows how to reply
I'm a assassination main but i've been trying out subtlety and so I did a sim to try and spot my mistakes
I kept pulling roughly 150k below what I should so I kept trying to spot mistakes and this time I finally managed to pull the same damage as the sim was saying
Now my question is... the simulation says my top damage should be eviscerate -> Secret Technique, but for some reason it's Secret Technique quite above Eviscerate
Does any of you know what the reason might be? thank you in advance and sorry if i'm bothering ❤️
hazy breach
At 7 or more targets you would storm once i dance like haptics mentioned, but thats for your BP to do damage through find weakness
spice saffron
yes, storm once with 2nd stack of The Rotten
is that for the 35% buff from rotten damage or to apply findweakness
distant bison
shuriken storm eats 2stacks of rotten. so u wanna use it in dance once u have 1 rottenn stack to not waste the other stack
swift tinsel
you storm with 2nd rotten for FW if you're gonna black powder
the guaranteed crit from rotten + improved shuriken storm
spice saffron
you storm with 2nd rotten for FW if you're gonna black powder
oh so just for 7+ targets ok
prisma void
Does sec tech snapshot or we need active shadow dance for clones?
swift tinsel
it does not snapshot afaik
rain swallow
Yeah can you please send it? much easier to see if im invis that way
hazy breach
Does sec tech snapshot or we need active shadow dance for clones?
Does not snapshot
swift tinsel
only rupture finality does right
and that's less a snapshot and just a specific buff to rupture
spice saffron
do you experienced sub rogues still fuck up the refunded combo points from shadowcraft as i react to it like 30% of the time atm xD
hazy breach
You should be using sectech asap once you enter dance
swift tinsel
I know when I'm going to get them with the combo point tracker I have
spice saffron
I know when I'm going to get them with the combo point tracker I have
Could you share it?
hazy breach
So you should never be close to them missing your dance
spice saffron
thankyou 🙂
vale pine
do you experienced sub rogues still fuck up the refunded combo points from shado...
easy way to avoid it is to use a weakaura with a sound notification
prisma void
question bombardment
alpine wraith
the random proc is a reset for unseen blade
but if you enter dance with 2 escalatings you always get coup inside dance
because sec tech gives 2 resets
spice saffron
easy way to avoid it is to use a weakaura with a sound notification
i do but i'm too slow atm lmfao
dry plank
guys how much is dps gain to deal with CB+SecTech on 2nd dance? or cba and press it on cd?
hazy breach
guys how much is dps gain to deal with CB+SecTech on 2nd dance? or cba and press...
~1.2%
lilac stag
1%
vale pine
i do but i'm too slow atm lmfao
just needs some practice
spice saffron
just needs some practice
for sure
alpine wraith
at least they fixed the RS bug
dry plank
it was less in s1 loss right?
alpine wraith
that one has taken some years off me
yea s1 we had less stats
and well less baseline etc
prisma void
%1 is big tho
lilac stag
More Boom now
hazy breach
it was less in s1 loss right?
Yes, new tier buffs sectech a bit more (and blades work on sectech now)
vale pine
season 2 set makes our cooldowns more impactful
alpine wraith
it kinda is reason it is not recommended anywhere to use macro now
vale pine
so you lose more if you don't min/max
alpine wraith
also yea blades working on sec tech
dry plank
thanks bois love you xD
haughty mural
No you
shell willow
!bugs
hazy breach
So not only is sectech doing ~20% more damage from tier its also doing ~27% more damage from blades
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
hazy breach
Yes
prisma void
faint basalt
<@264803164576940042> gratz on taking back r1 sub <:xdx:1098666316937826444>
tyty xD
rocky ocean
Always use it on second sectech in blades
Is that because of flagellation?
hazy breach
And flawless form stacks
sick plank
Yeah can you please send it? much easier to see if im invis that way
!WA:2!1nvZUTTrq4iOdbGjanvXXi1jTr1PWfffiOY12P5sDfTPGtGILajDC6LsVK7qXnLAxIDxAlLJc9qp7hbb0CQOh0JGFcwy0Na)i4NGolPqrqrToODMHF7(n)8nn61AClAl6V)1srPoNXb5GJc7)Yd9KtgKMQaDJfuMQiNmneMOppi0RB)Wd82)svgHko7NRb94BTGWtYeYHcgxhVN3HHE(fT)OBgLkKJj6OIinBmS0RrX9skvAXylIJkOen4dNcC9vKsmkrZsoMr1zUDrxjjrZeC1o(knrQDItzCMkZXfp0oZ0s2OrGu9lBixA(bx90cWNukjBEH9FvbKNZOQ1C788FylZDIpai56SRuLXvSoucPSj(bd963Fwf4xsvoxxQaVji5b1roXTejm2wyG0NtgdkN)9jcktXNyr0EDdcJcc76hoNcXyWqmvKh41FyVJ6FEjFzk6SH5(FWSI5bMhFI5oMhA(mZAMh5y(CZxyAB(sZtCmRUwCNoB35fDmRBEQ5RCSJJ3vYXEXPWMe(0IpLuzhw)IVwqH)8wfRFZT(XcAKe70NuSXndkhgrsMgLMleYSZvqEA9K1Dqy4Gx7Mk46I7pmSDaHRAFirkfN12vKtNJncFyKDoT2QMvUeDJjj)6iuDXPU5cc9nxLKtuQicNgH94eNynjh7CR6pUmxZC8R(8QMTCCTFU2G9EWAmZYBa6C0s53BRLFnNlR402KD1y1u8T3CPrNIZmwsKotcQmmNNEoHZSInbFhZN07cGOGaTe4J0z32SIlxWHlPO(XIiYQPKkirWPQzwOwsn76oMW49m)iEbZUMFY014IN37)gP4P3CIviHeMc5OzXJ(FrvB4BbtNBtaw1cHZSZes6XssXSJxAiFhUwXsN623Rx4CTi5umNrSpSXFTY6m61(IrLqBLUs)du506(4(pzrQef0y1t0KMxxVt3ZgYwLXb7575DymsDkBKZMLm6INF8GjVFhY39n(YlXLwe(GI6SYprKlKVQj(Br90AVQanA0O5CCjbOv72)2DxW41vgEnNRrvgi5K83uNX)rlv82pRZlE23360)(T)d
idk if this is complete
there are two separate spell ids for stealth depending on talents
but idk if there are others i am unaware of yet lol
lilac stag
Jesus. Link it on wago
alpine wraith
ye happens sometimes
lilac stag
have a wall of code in chat.
rain swallow
```
!WA:2!1nvZUTTrq4iOdbGjanvXXi1jTr1PWfffiOY12P5sDfTPGtGILajDC6LsVK7qXnLAxIDxAl...
What a chad you are thanks
alpine wraith
but hey if it works it works
sick plank
didn't think it would be a big deal for a small WA but i'll do it differently next time
swift tinsel
teams still asks me if I'm sure I want to use the updated version
even though it went live in like july of last year
random hare
@leaden prairie lol guess what
remmeber the subterfuge bug
for outlaw
apparently its the same on first dance
if it reactivates while its up and ur in combat it just continues going
alpine wraith
yea has been known since beta
kinda bugs out and maybe you need to be out of combat longer
very annoying
so sometimes instead of 6 secs it is more like 10
you can kind of dampen it stayin further away
but many healers have hots and shit that take you in combat anyway
i have a little corner in NW necropolis i stay between pulls ahaha
and in mists
uneven scarab
Mistweaver been trolling my stealth for years
uneven scarab
I forget what spell it is but they have one specific one
swift tinsel
renewing mist iirc
alpine wraith
the statue and renewing
sullen hare
They'll also never fix the stealth breaks in the maze section of mists
swift tinsel
yeah I just kinda hang back
so I don't get combat tagged while trying to restealth lol
sullen hare
I just walk to the next pack and stealth after the spawn hahaha
upper narwhal
At least with Sub you only lose a strike if you get yoinked out of stealth, pre subterfuge rework Assa was painful
leaden prairie
if it reactivates while its up and ur in combat it just continues going
hm how does that work
steel zinc
At least with Sub you only lose a strike if you get yoinked out of stealth, pre ...
You lose more
First dance talent
upper narwhal
well you can lose it sometimes, if the yoink happens before the talent resets
leaden prairie
i dont understnad
leaden prairie
first dance is a out of combat timer right
random hare
if it manages to re activate or something
leaden prairie
nothing to do with stealth or
random hare
ye but
i vanish in combat
and shit
idk how it works
but it keeps going in ocmbat
steel zinc
first dance is a out of combat timer right
It starts 3 sec after your out of combat
It's more like 10 sec no combat
leaden prairie
I mean i will need to test myself, i dont track it yet
tepid trellis
but it keeps going in ocmbat
some mobs give combat if you are remotely close and some just give global combat
leaden prairie
but i should
leaden prairie
but i dont get waht you guys are saying rn
leaden prairie
will have to try msyefl
upper narwhal
combat flags are giga inconsistent
tepid trellis
oh
random hare
ya
alpine wraith
some bosses or mobs actually dont have a combat trigger
random hare
idk how to trigger it tho
alpine wraith
like first boss of GB
random hare
wait rly
leaden prairie
first boss gb isnt even a boss
alpine wraith
but that one is the most reliable
alpine wraith
HE IS MASQUERADING
plush roost
Hey don't yell at gb first boss, hes just angey
Shouting all the time
Making me spend 20 energy
alpine wraith
strong vibes
vestal escarp
double sub
random hare
the other rogue is 640 equipped 
diidnt know u can do that
alpine wraith
hope you have a shaman
plush roost
Banger
vestal escarp
is literally pulling every pack at 90s interval
alpine wraith
yea new zone gear goes up to 645
random hare
?
plush roost
Yeah 2 chested a 17 siege yesterday xd
plush roost
Shit is nerfed af
leaden prairie
The health scaling is linked to damage scaling
I mean it's just the new scaling isn't it
That's all
random hare
new scaling is worse
leaden prairie
The damage is linked to their health
random hare
idk how this became easier
random hare
zac
hazy breach
I mean they nerfed the scaling of the keys
alpine wraith
the +12 mod is diff now
random hare
idk if u noticed
alpine wraith
only affects dmg
hazy breach
But they didnt buff m0
alpine wraith
yea this week is kinda weird
random hare
its legit so bugged
hazy breach
Which is what theyll do next week (ie when the new ones come)
leaden prairie
Ye I noticed
alpine wraith
because new scaling is weighted towards new m0 baseline
mint swift
its legit so bugged
First boss of GB
alpine wraith
ROLF
mint swift
XD
alpine wraith
mobs were training
random hare
dude
alpine wraith
like THIS IS THE LAST WEEK BOIS
plush roost
They randomly made arcing void have an indicator
alpine wraith
MAKE THEM SUFFER
random hare
u know the azerite extractor? in motherlode
mint swift
The rock spikes coming up like 2 seconds before they should
random hare
he drops aoe circles
dude
that guy
drops like
3-5 per second
and
each explode after 1 sec or somsehit
alpine wraith
lots of hp fucken
mint swift
so if u dont react like a motherfucker
Nelths lair moment
random hare
tuning is rly bad man
some mobs do no dmg
some do alot
all mobs have infinite hp
some 15s feel like a +10
some +13 feel like a +19
mint swift
I’m sure they will just fix it later
random hare
alpine wraith
nah they are not fixing anything
alpine wraith
this dungeons are not in s2
mint swift
Oh
random hare
some +13 feel like a +19
no that i meant s2
alpine wraith
so just under the rug
mint swift
I for some reason thought s2 ones
alpine wraith
oh you mean s2 ones yea they are krangled
alpine wraith
some of them already did lots of dmg in bfa
they already nerfed ToP a lot tho
and even then
random hare
ToP is kinda overtuned in some areas
alpine wraith
i still expect xav to jump and break my neck
like good old times
having to feint and vanish
plush roost
Mfw a single thunderbolt cast goes through in the rookery
mint swift
i still expect xav to jump and break my neck
For some reason I thought you meant Xal
plush roost
Ouch oof owie my health
mint swift
Fuck ToP
random hare
the duel thing is ASS
lusty narwhal
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
mint swift
Hated it in SL
alpine wraith
yea that boss was always an endurance match
mint swift
Why couldn’t they bring back SL halls instead
alpine wraith
you needed a comp where at least 2 of the 3 dps could blast someone to make it go faster
alpine wraith
ah the adds on him
random hare
ye
leaden prairie
Zeross
vale pine
does this mean shuriken + rupture should be repeated?
the "explanation" tab should help go into details about the ability use ^^
alpine wraith
they dont jumo if you are in melee?
leaden prairie
Can you use not even close
leaden prairie
And check last boss siege
random hare
like u have to premove
leaden prairie
With your assa stats
alpine wraith
you kanda had to trust tank and move with him to the safe place with no meat hooks
otherwise you got jumped and raped
random hare
1 shots on 18 i think i didnt check zac
last time i pushed high key siege it was +16 early in season
alpine wraith
you need elu anyway on that boss
random hare
we were maybe 615 ilvl
alpine wraith
the dot initial hit is mental
random hare
us