subtlety

[leaden prairie]

idk its mega annoying

[random hare]

it should have increased hitbox by like 5 yards 1st 2 bosses of rookery

and

2nd boss darkflame +10 yards atleast

rest are all literally fine lol

[leaden prairie]

well darkflame also need a redesign

you cant have melees run around

for flames

its silly

[sullen hare]

Ugh. I switched to just using a cast sequence macro when the poison menu got all messed up at the start of the xpac

[swift tinsel]

I do that for sin with dtb but didn’t make one for sub bc it’s just two

[granite river]

Delete whole darkness mechanic plz

[sullen hare]

I made the each for st and m+ since there is a difference in NL poison

[random hare]

YOPYOYOYO

GUYS

they changed loot table in raid on ptr from what it looks like all raid items that are socketable automatically drop socketed on raid

on all difficulties

sheeeeeeeeeesh??

[bright sundial]

damn just look at the guide and trans is still bis, really fk up that I swap to surv in s1 😭

[hazy breach]

Its not bis

House of cards is better with enough higher ilvl

[tulip gorge]

I won’t believe it until the gear actually drops

[random hare]

ye

i wont either

looks exciting tho

[keen dome]

Sounds weird 'cos it'd mean M+ stuff would just be socketless

And you'd have to use the currency for it, but not raid gear?

[random hare]

dude u know what im excited about

we are sorted for

cloak,wrist, belt

they are all vers mastery

in raid/catalyst

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[tulip gorge]

What if they remove the socket item from vault and replace it with dinar

[keen dome]

Love some vers / mast cata stuff

[tulip gorge]

[random hare]

also

theres a pure vers cloak

from mechagon

[keen dome]

Trashmaster cloak, yeah?

[random hare]

ye

[keen dome]

Jani provides for us

[random hare]

all necks are bad tho

so i guess neck craft should be a safe pick

[keen dome]

Crafted angle, I guess.

only -3 iLevels so it's not a big loss as no agi

[random hare]

ye

[keen dome]

I can carry my neck forward another season

[random hare]

also could be BoE who knows

[shrewd monolith]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[random hare]

good ring from Priory

m+

and theater of pain

good ring there too

[uneven scarab]

Top ring goat

[hazy breach]

Good ring from raid too

[random hare]

ye the rng raid ring

random stats

[keen dome]

Love a good ring around

[random hare]

we dont have any good boots

would be a craft angle i think

boots+wrist

[swift tinsel]

That’s what I’m rockin

Boots/cloak for me

[timid pulsar]

why isnt tierset changes in the official note?

[hazy breach]

Why would they be

[timid pulsar]

they counts as tuning, idk

[random hare]

so i guess bis crafts would be boot+wrist+neck and probably a mastery crit glove? or craft gloves but might lose some agi?

[hazy breach]

"Hey this thing you havent had was stronger before, but we nerfed it"

[swift tinsel]

Cloak/boots simmed best for me when I tried diff slots

[random hare]

well they all will be within 0.1%

so np

[keen dome]

Yeah, Cloak / Bracers / Boots were the ones I kept seeing but it was all pretty close so I'll just let loot rng decide

[swift tinsel]

Neck is prob craftable too

[random hare]

wrist and cloak are the weakest slots tho

so ye

[keen dome]

I ended up crafting gloves a few weeks ago 'cos vault refused to give me myth tier gloves and I gave up waiting

[swift tinsel]

I already have boots/cloak from last season so I’m gonna keep those unless I feel like something else

Prob crafting dagger asap this season for the boost

[keen dome]

Yeah same

Dagger first craft then it'll be OH unless I get hyper lucky

[swift tinsel]

Hoping for an early hero track

The raid and rookery daggers are interchangeable which is nice

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[frozen gyro]

Hello fellow subtle sneaky ones

I am thinking of switching from assasin to sub in the upcoming patch

[swift tinsel]

Do it sub owns

[frozen gyro]

How are sub in m+

[keen dome]

Pretty fine

[frozen gyro]

Is their aoe dmg sufficient for higer keys?

[keen dome]

What level of higher keys?

[swift tinsel]

We can do solid aoe without losing st

[frozen gyro]

I find the rotation fun but am uncertain about endgame with it

[swift tinsel]

Which a lot of specs can’t

[frozen gyro]

10+

[keen dome]

Yeah, fine.

[frozen gyro]

I have cone across i formation that sub is prefered in guild runs for raids due to shrot encounters.my life forces me to pug

Is that conpativle with sub spec?

[twilit phoenix]

do we always aim to have SecTech be the second finisher in a dance window?

[frozen gyro]

If i want to beat my friends in parses

[keen dome]

Well, again: what level of content? Heroic? Super easy. Sub is great. Mythic? Pugging mythic is pretty variable but yeah also probably just fine

[swift tinsel]

First is ideal but as long as it’s supercharged it’s okay

[twilit phoenix]

so we don't really care about danse?

[frozen gyro]

I see

[swift tinsel]

Nope not really

[twilit phoenix]

that's interesting

[frozen gyro]

Thank you for the i formation fellow subtle sneaky hobitts

[swift tinsel]

Danse gaming kinda got left in df

[twilit phoenix]

is there a gain/loss to going into a shadow dance with full cps?

[hazy breach]

If you wait with sectech you risk missing getting these in dance and/or risk having your coup not be in dance

And you want the +3% dmg flawless form buffs as soon as possible

[twilit phoenix]

gotcha

the only thing I'm trying to commit to muscle memory now is CBing the second sectech

[hazy breach]

Technically you can have it be second finisher in dance outside cds as deathstalker but it doesnt really matter (ie its +-0 in sims)

[twilit phoenix]

in the flag window

[hazy breach]

Since you need it to be first finisher during your flag+blades

Otherwise it wont be ready during blades again

So just always send first

[twilit phoenix]

dope dope dope

ty eleem :3

[random hare]

dope my ass cuh

@hazy breach for keys we go vers > mastery?

[jaunty heath]

dudes, does sub play like it did in early df or has it changed much?

[random hare]

or

how big of a difference is it to go mastery > vers

[hazy breach]

It doesnt really matter

[random hare]

really?

like

i can stack full vers

and its the same?

[keen dome]

If by early DF you mean 10.0 or 10.1 then yep, quite a lot has changed.

[hazy breach]

Theres not a huge difference no. But like, for the most part you just get a vers+mastery item and you dont really get to decide its distribution

And sockets+enchants make very little difference

[swift tinsel]

Vers/mastery gems/enchants are equal any time I’ve simmed

[hazy breach]

But like, we're gonna have a fuckload of vers either way

[swift tinsel]

So if you want the extra defensive value from vers you aren’t inting

Plus it isn’t much

And we’re immortal anyways

[hazy breach]

And its not like you should really be down bad for the defensive value from vers

[swift tinsel]

Right, should have 10-12% damage reduction going into s2

[random hare]

scaled at 678

hey hey

is this enough vers

or do i need more?

[small spade]

is transmitter still bis even if its 626 ?

[hazy breach]

No

[twilit phoenix]

40% vers next tier is gonna go crazy

[round latch]

vers/mast full send

[acoustic lodge]

Which items are crafted?

[proven plover]

cant wait to be returning to sub this week

I'm coming home

[vale pine]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

[wheat elk]

did they do anything to dinars after removing them from renown rewards?

[hazy breach]

No

[wheat elk]

ffs

[hazy breach]

They mentioned theyre likely to be introduced in .7

But thats pretty much the same timeframe as the renown was

[wheat elk]

no raid no dinar D:

[hazy breach]

Dinar wouldnt have come until like september anyway

So

[wet robin]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen dome]

Please let them come in 11.1.5...

[random hare]

is red not a good idea for keys?

[hazy breach]

The 6% crit symbols is pretty much the only talent that does anything out of those

Whereas the green has two talents (reduced symbols and premed)

[random hare]

o i see

i guess crit one is more aoe?

also was it simmed with our new big burst tier sets?

[hazy breach]

Timing gets really annoying with the symbols cds

[random hare]

ye i can imagine

idk we have big burst

maybe it could be decent or

[clever delta]

my brain really hurt swapping between bp and evis as trisckter

[vale pine]

just use evis

🙂

[west tide]

guys i looked at 1 log and saw someone in the opener doing a sec tech immediately, back in my day we had to do it as 2nd finisher for macabre stacks

i have much to learn

[hollow condor]

are there any raid logs fom liberation raid i can study to get prepared for S2?

[vale pine]

wcl might have some unlisted ones

if you search for the zone

[hollow condor]

ill try ty

[hazy breach]

Ye sure the burst will be slightly higher. But the symbols cd gets really scuffed later on in the pulls

And premed is really strong for ST

[small epoch]

wait actually? The discord guide for sub has it that we sectech the second finisher O_O

[haughty mural]

i love premed

[hazy breach]

The what

[random hare]

ye but theres downtime in some keys

wouldnt it be decent

[hazy breach]

I dont think it matters enough to scuff it

[random hare]

actually

if i were to play back in my tea build days i'd rock with it

but honestly the extra cd on symbols is cracked

cdr

lines up perfectly for my dances

sometimes i even need an extra symbols if i keep on first dancing

ngl sub is fun to play

all specs are

rogue just feels nice to play rn

[small epoch]

@hazy breach sorry on the wowhead, forgot rogues dont have the guide in discord like spriest

[random hare]

maybe outlaw is bad atm

outlaw is probably the worst playstyle rn

kinda hate outlaw

rerolling 24/7 for 5 buffs is cringe

[haughty mural]

true

[small epoch]

atleast with kir next patch you potentially can hit the perma 5 roll with kir

[random hare]

im literally talking about next patch

its bad

[small epoch]

potentially* being like 4 in 5 pulls

oh

[random hare]

like even live it isn't amazing

but ye

should've kept season 3 DF playstyle untouched

until ppl get bored of it

ppl still want that gameplay

kinda crazy

[hazy breach]

Ye fuu already said hed fix it, its just an old thing he forgot to change

[small epoch]

my fingies gonna fall off with outlaw smh

[vale pine]

this should be live

[west tide]

awesome ty fuu

[small epoch]

thankyou ❤️

[west tide]

gonna deep dive your guide for season2 soon ❤️

[vale pine]

also i just aksed if i am allowed to switch format for some sections

because i have some rly cool changes i want to implement to the page

[hollow condor]

2 quick questions: 1, Friend recomended using macro for shadowdance + shadowstrike - is it good? ,2, when popping CD´s - SD or SoD first? ( i dont have it in macro together )

[hazy breach]

1. No, you dont always dance at 0 cp
2. It doesnt matter

[hollow condor]

ty

[warm veldt]

3. I love you

[hollow condor]

i´m kinda scared tbh. played 3 seasons of Press evo - now switching to Sub.. gonna be a ride

[west tide]

does anyone still use one of those backstab sstrike macros or is that archaic now

i know blizz changed stuff

[thin lion]

The Last Patch notes: they did Not mention the Tier Set Tuning for sub anywhere or am I blind ?

[swift tinsel]

Strike replaces backstab during stealth/dance so no need

[hazy breach]

Why would they

Its not in the game yet

"Hey this thing you dont have yet used to be stronger, but now its nerfed"

When they could just not say that

[thin lion]

Kinda Logic thanks

[void ocean]

WHAT?

when did that happen

[swift tinsel]

Unless you have it bound somewhere beyond your stealth bar

[uneven scarab]

It happened like 5 years ago bruh

Nah idk how long ago it actually was

[bleak night]

Lmao

[uneven scarab]

but yeah it does

[leaden prairie]

what

[bleak night]

Some time in df I think

[hearty edge]

Hey all, is there a reason why the 11.1 single target spec runs Improved Shuriken Storm rather than Shadow Focus?

[swift tinsel]

Wanna say it was after 10.2 rework but a bit after

But idr

[void ocean]

I mean, I understand if u put it on the same place on your main action bar which turns into a stealth bar

[leaden prairie]

it only replace it because you have it bound that way

[swift tinsel]

It’s not like sinister strike/mutilate with HO or the sin one

Which is legit replacement

[void ocean]

but when u first mentioned it I dead-ass tho the spell itself turns into the ss

and since i havent played 11.0 I was a bit taken by surprise

[leaden prairie]

so there is no replacement at all

[swift tinsel]

Nah that’s why I added the “unless it’s on somewhere besides your stealth bar” part

[leaden prairie]

wdym

[swift tinsel]

Does sinister strike not become ambush

[leaden prairie]

ye if you put it on your bars

that way

it does with audacity proc tho

[swift tinsel]

Yeah that’s what I mean

[lethal gale]

pressing sd def does not replace backstab with ss

[leaden prairie]

but you said strike replace bs during dance

which is not true

[hazy breach]

Technically shadow focus is like 0.1% better on ST yes, but its significantly worse when theres ever a single other target

[void ocean]

yea, it was clear after that

[quiet wasp]

What is the reasoning for Secret Tech being the first finishing move in Shadow Dance now? Is it to just get it on CD?

[hazy breach]

First of all: The extra energy during dance is not needed, we already have enough energy.
Secondly: The number on SF is just so low that even if we needed energy it wouldnt matter

[hearty edge]

Thanks, appreciate the response - this makes sense!

[uneven scarab]

Tier set, flawless form stacks

And get it on cd yes

So you can fit a second in the burst window

[hexed dagger]

how big of an issue is to to bind CB to sectech?

[quiet wasp]

which is a higher prio during Shadow Dance: Secret Tech or Coup De Grace?

[hexed dagger]

do we want to not use it outside of CD sectechs?

[hazy breach]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[hexed dagger]

gotcha ty

[hazy breach]

Its fine to have 1 macro and 1 non-macroed sectech

[uneven scarab]

ye thats how i do it

one naked and one macro

[hexed dagger]

yeah thats likely what I'll do

[hazy breach]

But just having it macroed and forgetting about cb is a ~1% loss or so

[hexed dagger]

for sure

only other question (havent done sub since early this patch): the use case for vanish is just to get some quick flag stacks now? otherwise should I just consider it a movement button at this point?

[hazy breach]

It gives you a full bar of cp too through premeditation

But ye its not a big deal at all

[hexed dagger]

right to use for flag stacks

[hazy breach]

Yes in the opener, outside the opener you can just use it whenever

[hexed dagger]

but like, it wont line up for second CDs

ok sweet

[quiet wasp]

if im in Shadow Dance, and I have all my buffs rolling (Symbols, Shadow Blades, flawless form, flag buff, etc.), is it better to cold blood SecTech or Coup de Grace? and is Coup de Grace or SecTech a higher prio in this instance

[hazy breach]

Secret technique, you want to get it on cd asap

So your second one is ready asap

[random hare]

@vale pine Use Shuriken Storm on 3 or more targets with Flawless Form up.

how many targets do we shuriken storm without flawless form or is it mandatory to proc it

highest prio to proc flawless form i guess?

and blackpowder is 3+ targets without flawless form yea?

[fallen crescent]

I thought currently was bp on 5+ targets

[hazy breach]

Also you should always cb on sectech, nothing else

[kind bluff]

7+ now

[hazy breach]

Ye and then they buffed nimble flurry

[kind bluff]

After buffs

[fallen crescent]

But thats onreset

7+

[kind bluff]

Yes

[vale pine]

you don't

you use backstab

to get flawless form back up

[random hare]

and blackpowder finisher rule without flawless form? i guess that barely happens tho

[vale pine]

dropping flawless is already not that common

[random hare]

is there any reason to play around shadow technique combo point's it generates for energy management?

on single target

[vale pine]

no

^^

[random hare]

ty ty

[vale pine]

you get more than enough energy from symbols/etc

[random hare]

ok i think im close to knowing everything for sub rogue

[clever delta]

its kinda funny

see all the ppl comming to sub and seek help now when sub look dominant 😄

it remind the dust time

[quiet wasp]

Im just getting back into rogue

[random hare]

ye never happens to other specs when they become good dont they

xdd

[young path]

Math is hard… 45 sec plus 45 sec is 1:30…. CB gets used outside of blades?

[quiet wasp]

I was playing hunter and i dont like the reworks

[hazy breach]

If you use it immediately on CD you can use it yes

[clever delta]

when assa is god there is not much to teach 😄

[hazy breach]

But every second you delay cb is a second you should delay flag, so its really bad to delay it

[random hare]

assa is way harder than sub in m+

[dusty totem]

nahh bro that is bs

[clever delta]

kek

surely

[young path]

I’m trying to think if I’ve ever not had CB available in blades and I really don’t think it’s ever been unavailable

[random hare]

ur just coping because its braindead in raid

[hexed dagger]

I play sin until sub is undeniably better, then come crawling back until I can play sin again lol

[uneven scarab]

Yeah press ct and spatter

200 iq

[random hare]

ye its definitely just that

xd

[uneven scarab]

xddd

[hazy breach]

I mean sending it on the first sectech is also less damage

[dusty totem]

assa is just boring tho

[random hare]

and then u just suddenly get gapped by 500k+ dps

no wonder

[young path]

That’s a super fair point with the new tier

[hazy breach]

Has nothing to do with new tier

[random hare]

sub is the easiest rogue spec rn

in m+

literally has nothing to it

[uneven scarab]

as long as ur tank knows what tf spec your playing sure

[young path]

But if your timing your goes around 1:30 and your loop is consistent, should be an irrelevant concern in theory?

[uneven scarab]

otherwise

[random hare]

sub is just all about info

if u know everything ur good

[hazy breach]

What

[young path]

“Not” macro’ing CB

[clever delta]

idk i see some know rogue struggle and than i see kush ultra gap i would say there is some skill involved even playing sub

[boreal finch]

Sorry I'm new to sub. How can we do 2 evis in a row during opener?

[young path]

The only modifier I guess could be TFD extra 4 sec if u send there

[hazy breach]

What are you talking about

The second sectech does more damage than the first one

Because of flag and flawless stacks

[random hare]

people suck on all rogue specs

not just sub

[young path]

Why u wouldn’t keep CB macro’d to sec tech

[random hare]

didnt take me long to play sub at a high level

its not that hard honestly

sin was a ride tho

[hazy breach]

Then you would often use it on the first and/or not have it for shadowblades

[tropic nimbus]

Bc the first sec isn’t cb’d

[random hare]

sub was always especially if ur a rogue main

[young path]

So are we not sending sec tech in blades?

[tardy solar]

I watched him gapping some PTR keys, those other players he was grouped with were dogshit

[random hare]

because like

sub never changes almost

[tropic nimbus]

Yes twice

[hazy breach]

?

[uneven scarab]

?? Of course you are

[random hare]

just has few rules, apart from dragonflight's dust fiesta

[young path]

Then why not keep it macro’d?

[hazy breach]

?

[tropic nimbus]

Brother

[hazy breach]

#subtlety message

[uneven scarab]

Because you want you second sectech in cooldowns

To have cb

And if its macrod

It wont

[small epoch]

so with the new dungeons are we always going trickster for keys or are we doing deathstalker, especially with so many having bigger 10-16 target pulls

[shy orbit]

this is me trying the rotation out, how bad is it https://streamable.com/jlohg5

[uneven scarab]

Is that a 1 hander

[young path]

Second cooldowns… that come up 90 seconds after your first go

The logic here is completely escaping me

[hazy breach]

If you have them macrod

You wont use it on the second sectech

[shy orbit]

1 hander?

[tropic nimbus]

On second dance

[leaden prairie]

[boreal finch]

is it worth to use cold blood on coup de grace or does secret technique do more damage?

[hazy breach]

Always sectech

[uneven scarab]

Not a dagger?

[keen dome]

Are you using a sword in OH?

[shy orbit]

fist in off hand

dagger in main

[uneven scarab]

Oh no

[shy orbit]

is that terrible?

[keen dome]

Yeah, you need to use two daggers.

[uneven scarab]

U want two daggers

[leaden prairie]

[uneven scarab]

Bad

Very bad

[keen dome]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[keen dome]

Because of this.

[shy orbit]

thats embarrassing

[young path]

Am I missing something or is it bad to send during the first dance of blades?

[uneven scarab]

I knew i saw a sword mog LOL

[keen dome]

It's an easy mistake to make if you just look at what Sub can use.

But we absolutely want dual daggers

[hazy breach]

The second sectech does like 25-30% more damage

[uneven scarab]

Your SECOND DANCE IN BLADES SHOULD HAVE COLD BLOOD ON THE SECTECH

[hazy breach]

Because flawless form and flag

[dense geode]

Is this ragebait

[hazy breach]

No hes usually like htis

[twilit phoenix]

bro is a top 50 all star sub rogue trolling you guys

[void ocean]

so how are y'all, the fotm players 😄

[young path]

Like what? I’m literally asking questions

[twilit phoenix]

with the deadpool pfp as well

[clever delta]

this channel is pure cinema

watching eleem trying

[hazy breach]

Youve asked the same question 4 times and gotten the same answer all the time but

[random hare]

you missed 2 gcds trying to press shadowstrike while shadowdance isn't up

[clever delta]

is smg else

[twilit phoenix]

bro is mischievous

[random hare]

also you ruptured inside of dance

kinda illegal u have to pre rupture

[uneven scarab]

We do a little subtle trolling

ya gcd’s in dance are very important

pressing rupture in dance is bad

u want only damage

[clever delta]

there were times we rupture in dance

maybe he come from this age

[random hare]

also dont wait for rupture to run out completely

[uneven scarab]

Finality days

[random hare]

theres a pandemic window of 8 seconds

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-i-member-memberberries-south-park-i-remember-oh-yeah-gif-20408218

[shy orbit]

no i just started practicing for this rotation like yesterday

so i def dont come from that age

[void ocean]

Hacha did all kinds of things in his Dance cookouts

[random hare]

also

if u want to be an excellent dpser

[keen dome]

It's very much a "Practice, practice, practice" spec. Easy to make mistakes on, as stuff isn't logical.

[random hare]

nvm i take this back i dont want ppl to ramp up in logs

[twilit phoenix]

an entire playlist dedicated just to smashing pumpkins

I kneel

[uneven scarab]

[twilit phoenix]

excrutiatingly based

[uneven scarab]

The Goat of bands

tyty

[twilit phoenix]

siamese dream

goated album

GOATED

[young path]

Am not! I’m a shitter

[shy orbit]

okay thanks guys, i just wanted to know how off my rotation was.

[silent ruin]

Has this forum been ever more active ? @foo

[oak rune]

Subtlety is so hard to spell

[twilit phoenix]

Subtletee

[uneven scarab]

Im a big Pisces Iscariot guy

just love the band entirely

[hexed dagger]

@hazy breach when will your guide be updated for the new patch

not that much is changing

[hazy breach]

Should be today

I remade most of the formatting

[shy orbit]

how different is the single target rotation to the aoe rotation?

[twilit phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/pov-you-giga-chad-chad-meme-gif-25615024

[clever delta]

where is eleem making guide 😄

thats new to me

[hazy breach]

Icy veins

[hexed dagger]

the big IV bro

[twilit phoenix]

is there an updated Fuu gooning guide coming in s2?

[clever delta]

man isnt icy veins like oldest guides?

[uneven scarab]

Nah yall gotta hop on the eleem youtube guides

[clever delta]

i swear i was watching icy veins when i started with wow

[leaden prairie]

icy veins still exist?

[clever delta]

and never since

[oak rune]

Icy veins outlived tank spot

[silent ruin]

I only read icy veins since wowhead is banned in my country

[random hare]

dont flame icyveins

eleem does icyveins

[hazy breach]

Like wowhead it just completely depends on who is writing the guides

[clever delta]

i dont flame its just

idk so old 😄

[leaden prairie]

both websites are trash

dw

[random hare]

both websites are trash
dw

zac

if both websites is trash

what isnt trash

?

[void ocean]

I liked wowhead until it stopped being provisioned for my country 😄

[leaden prairie]

could be good if they didnt have 20 pages per guides that are useless

[clever delta]

i will give you click eleem once you update

[silent ruin]

Icy veins content is better usually

[leaden prairie]

just to make clicks

[twilit phoenix]

zac just reads the APL

[random hare]

true and real

my guy knows marketing

wtf

did u study marketing

?

[leaden prairie]

like there is good content

and then

[molten citrus]

the pve stuff is pretty good

[leaden prairie]

its just drowned out

in 10 different page

of shit

because mister wowhead master guy

[uneven scarab]

I love wowhead with 30 ads before i get to my class guide

[leaden prairie]

wanted more money

[random hare]

pls save poopstalker — Today at 12:23 AM
I love wowhead with 30 ads before i get to my class guide

[vale pine]

rip

[uneven scarab]

pls save poopstalker — Today at 12:23 AM
I love wowhead with 30 ads before i get to my class guide

[keen dome]

I'm going to take ads out that talk about how cool Sub rogu eis

[oak rune]

I don’t like the font on icy veins - it’s like the cheap adobe font

[random hare]

wowhead is becoming these annoying anime websites asking you to suck their balls with ad clicks so that they can use it for their goon needs

[uneven scarab]

HAHAH

[leaden prairie]

real

[uneven scarab]

based opinion

[uneven scarab]

Bro i got adblock plus

[silent ruin]

@fuu happy cause channel spamming

[uneven scarab]

It doesnt even save me

[random hare]

wowhead has something new now

"disable adblocker"? "whitelist this website"?

[hazy breach]

Happy is not the word i would use if im being honest

[random hare]

pops everytime

[molten citrus]

bro wowhead on phone

is so miserable

[random hare]

not everytime but ye

HOLY SHIT YEA

LMAO

[uneven scarab]

YA BRO

[random hare]

WOWHEAD ON PHONE

IS CURSED

[uneven scarab]

thats mainly how i use it

Too

[random hare]

HOLY SHIT

[leaden prairie]

i mean also like, why is there so many shit in these things

[uneven scarab]

Its so fucking bas

[random hare]

worst website in the world

on phone

[leaden prairie]

like why so many buttons

[silent ruin]

Does this mean whyspyr fuu wars

[leaden prairie]

everywhere

i swear you dont need that many

[random hare]

that shit is trash dawg get that shit out of the airwaves

[leaden prairie]

its so simple to find what you want yet im always lost

[molten citrus]

that shit is trash dawg get that shit out of the airwaves

[uneven scarab]

that shit is trash dawg get that shit out of the airwaves

[oak rune]

Diablo II resurrected skill calculator nice

[young path]

That’s the money! Thanks!

[leaden prairie]

also the funniest thing is

you get to the main page of a class guide there is only a few diff pages

you click on one

[random hare]

zac do u play wednesday

[leaden prairie]

BOOM

WTF HAPPENED

[random hare]

wanna do new content together

?

[leaden prairie]

WHERE DID THESE CAME FROM

[bleak night]

lmao

[leaden prairie]

its next week no ?

[random hare]

idk how early u play

[stoic flower]

In DF it was flag -> finisher -> shadow blades, but looking at our opener is it now flag -> finisher -> sod/SD -> shadowstrike -> sectech -> shadow blades

[random hare]

no this week is the car stuff

we do that

quests and shit

theres new mario carting

in wow

[leaden prairie]

ye we can but i play late as always

[random hare]

faster than dragonriding

i never tried it tho

[leaden prairie]

18h30

[random hare]

ah

[hazy breach]

You can blades before sectech too, it doesnt matter anymore

[random hare]

kinda too late

ye

[oak rune]

Don’t forget 6 hours queue time to patch and world servers

[hazy breach]

Main thing is that you want to utilize the premed from dance before pressing blades

[random hare]

this isn't shadowlands launch

barely ppl play patches or

new tiers*

[oak rune]

Oh shit why are we here then

[random hare]

like to get an insane queue time

[silent ruin]

Why is sin channel dead though

[keen dome]

Everyone is going to be coming back to drive a cool car though

[random hare]

asmongold being gone kinda fucked wow abit

[leaden prairie]

[random hare]

it isnt, sub is just too alive

[leaden prairie]

amongold

[keen dome]

Undermine is just going to be a massive congestion. Gotta pay the congestion charge

[hazy breach]

[leaden prairie]

no wae

[hazy breach]

Aint no way bro brough up asmongold

[random hare]

dude ngl most ppl are casuals

they watch him alot

[uneven scarab]

[molten citrus]

https://tenor.com/view/asmongold-wow-impressed-amazed-surprised-gif-17005737533308574776

[random hare]

OMGOMGOMG NEW RAID

150k viewers

like

dude

[twilit phoenix]

Ross is a mod in asmongold’s stream

[random hare]

my guy made server queues fucked up

nah

[molten citrus]

bro shush !

[bleak night]

INVITE TO ASMON SHARD

[uneven scarab]

Bruh aint no way people still listen to what he has to say

Cap

[random hare]

ofc not

[molten citrus]

you can't be giving him up like that somnius

[hazy breach]

Ye and now hes just a political streamer

[keen dome]

can i have the reverse. i wish to be as far away from him as possible

[random hare]

true actually

his takes are wild

[bleak night]

i used to watch his transmog competitions but yeah the shit he says

i just cant watch it lmao

[keen dome]

he's vile

[silent ruin]

I think fatebound assassination will shine

[leaden prairie]

he is american guys

[torpid snow]

when to use BP 5 or +7?

[oak rune]

O? Why

[random hare]

guys guys

i think

[uneven scarab]

Nah i dont claim him bruh

he’s not

[random hare]

trickster assassination is op OMGOMGOGM

[silent ruin]

It will, watch n see

[hazy breach]

7. Technically 5 until patch hits but who cares about that

[random hare]

trickster assa op in ptr @leaden prairie

[vale pine]

wowhead wanted to make the selection smaller, so it does hide many of the less visited sections if you are on the main page. not our decision sadly

[random hare]

can u belive?!?!

[uneven scarab]

God i can’t wait to press killing spree guys

[leaden prairie]

i mean its good but it should be that way always

[uneven scarab]

[leaden prairie]

why is there 50 diff pages

per guides

that all say the same shit

[silent ruin]

Gear scaling , 40% critical good defensive , n single cast mutilate with deal fate to get 5 cp n go envenom

[random hare]

they are milking money zac

told u already

[vale pine]

you know what the term seo means?

[oak rune]

It’s like why do you even need an outlaw or assassination channel just have a subtlety channel at this point

[random hare]

the website is monopoly rn

degenerate ad behavior

[leaden prairie]

ye i know whisper explained it to me already

[bleak night]

more pages, more views, more ad revenue

[random hare]

ye

[bleak night]

god i love late stage capitalism

[random hare]

search engine optimization

[keen dome]

[random hare]

hated that project

in uni

holy fuck it was so annoyying

[vale pine]

from me some days ago

[leaden prairie]

guys

do you get the same amount of crests in 8

than 9

[sand ore]

From fuu just now

[random hare]

there was a good website we had

that fixes ur website

[silent ruin]

Give trickster n fatebound flensing knives to even the hurt

[random hare]

if it has any issues

too bloated and stuff

would link to the wowhead guys ngl but i lost the link

[leaden prairie]

from ninloc also just now, he was showing waht fuu said just now

[molten citrus]

[uneven scarab]

[molten citrus]

from zacro rn

[swift tinsel]

[molten citrus]

from zacro rn

[bleak night]

[sand ore]

My dog just restealthed

[uneven scarab]

Damn

[keen dome]

Pet the doggie please.

[leaden prairie]

dawg

[uneven scarab]

Hes literally the stealth icon

[random hare]

from notrickz rn

[void ocean]

Buck

[swift tinsel]

Ye that’s a Dave-ass dog right there

[uneven scarab]

On God

[swift tinsel]

[vale pine]

from zeross rn

[sand ore]

What have I done

[fluid moth]

https://tenor.com/view/what-is-that-what-is-happening-sam-neill-remove-sunglasses-gif-15770358

[vale pine]

you know when you open obs to look at your podcast

and it starts to infinitely loop on itself

[sand ore]

Me when I open obs to my 100,000 adoring fans

[swift tinsel]

Fuu stream when

[sand ore]

Ninloc stream when

[stoic flower]

In DF we could also SoD/SD when sectech had like 15 seconds left or whatever because we could game Danse.

But now since sectech is first finisher we have to wait for it to be up before SoD/SD -- is that right?

[uneven scarab]

Subtlety rogue stream when

[sand ore]

I will become the premier sub rogue streamer this toer

[swift tinsel]

Imma stream heroic prog

[sand ore]

Tier

Just you wait

[swift tinsel]

Compelling content

[uneven scarab]

You can pop dance with like 10 seconds on tech as long as you make sure the tech gets supercharged by sod

[sand ore]

I stream me clearing molten core for nightslayer belt mog

[keen dome]

Legit imo

Fashion is the best endgame

[stoic flower]

Ahh so the second supercharge, got it thank you man

[uneven scarab]

yeah ideally you just do it with the first but thats fine

[swift tinsel]

Can hear one of my guildies talk about cocaine like it’s a personality trait

[stoic flower]

but nothing wrong with waiting for the sectech to be up before SoD/SD?

[uneven scarab]

As long as ur not delaying stuff its fine

[silent ruin]

Transmitter runs out, n it's close to Bis apparently this season too

[sudden bison]

Is non-cd damage for sub really low?

[swift tinsel]

Yes

[sudden bison]

Like healer damage low?

[uneven scarab]

Yea

[hazy breach]

Outside of dances yes, or atleast close

[sudden bison]

So by CDs it’s meant dance, or the full suite of CDs?

[hazy breach]

You do absolutely no damage outside dance

You do not do a whole lot outside big cds

Small dances are not no damage, but theyre not big

[swift tinsel]

It’s pretty good if a prio target or adds come up for your mini dances

[silent ruin]

Basically if you screw up up blades + flag, you're done for

[lilac stag]

Yes.

[void ocean]

how much of dance cdr do we get during one blades+flag dance?

[hazy breach]

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[void ocean]

ah awesome, tnx

[vestal escarp]

in good cases you can farm 43 cps in the first burst dance

which are 20s off second charge if it's in cd, + duration

flag prep ramp etc

[long carbon]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[void ocean]

hmm arent we still missing like 10 sec? with 20s cdr + 8sec + flag cast and evis/rupture right after?

[vestal escarp]

it's enough

[west tide]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[lilac hornet]

would i be losing a significant amount of dps using only evis in 10 target cleave with trickster? not sure how to sim evis only vs optimal evis/black powder usage

[paper stirrup]

this season bp when 5+ targets

season2 is 7+ targets with the buff

[simple garnet]

What buff? Tier?

[paper stirrup]

buff to nimple flurry

[hazy breach]

On 10 targets

[lilac hornet]

ty

[twilit phoenix]

We still generate with shadow strikes no matter the target count in dance right?

[hazy breach]

Whenever you would BP

You would use 1 storm per dance with rotten to make sure everything has find weakness

[twilit phoenix]

Thanks king

[hazy breach]

But otherwise yes strike

[vale pine]

6% is not that bad

given the slight gain in prio

[young path]

Wild guess, but would that 6% pad loss be around 6% prio gain?

[vale pine]

probably not that much prio gain

because BP does do decent damage to each target

[graceful crown]

man, coup de grace charge killing me on blades will never get old

i cant wait for the removal of it

[swift tinsel]

savor your last day of it

or days if youre eu

[graceful crown]

days

[vale pine]

^

[graceful crown]

:(

i hope they did find a bettr animation for it tho

[swift tinsel]

you can actually see the animation now

instead of just when it charges

[graceful crown]

wow, technology!!!

[bleak night]

ok

i thought i was going crazy

the animation just doesnt fucking work

that explains a lot

[swift tinsel]

on retail atm it does not show

unless you trigger the charge

[bleak night]

yeah my character just does one of the generic animations

ok im glad thats being fixed

[swift tinsel]

now to just make it purple

[bleak night]

ive been playing sub in the casual content ive been doing, and i will admit the feeling when you use a giga buffed sec tec is nice

but then coup felt like i didnt even press a button

[swift tinsel]

Sectech would be cooler if the clones showed up and did the flourish attack

then we can ask them why they aren't buffed by tier set

[paper helm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[snow vapor]

I know kezan + cards is super bis on ST. Will Kezan specifically be that far ahead for m+ too? Not sure how easy it is to ramp/retain stacks

[clever delta]

i saw ppl running around with that serum trinket in m+

[pulsar hemlock]

The delve one?

[hazy breach]

I would be surprised if it wasnt atleast close to bis despite losing stacks

[bleak night]

surely they do some trinket tuning so literally every spec in the game doesnt want the same trinket off the end boss

right

[swift tinsel]

Its possible

[bleak night]

surely

[swift tinsel]

bc its across the board bis prettymuch

[twilit phoenix]

Wasn’t it like that for the vault council trinket

Basically everyone used it

[bleak night]

kinda yeah, but i feel like that was less problematic since it came from what could be the second boss

though it was a rare drop so it did have its own issues

[rugged condor]

surely we dont use the shadow dmg proc mace right

[hazy breach]

Absolutely not

[rugged condor]

thank fuck

[tepid trellis]

HELL NAW

[bleak night]

slow offhand bad

[hazy breach]

Its really really really bad to not use a dagger

[tepid trellis]

bad is an understatement

[hazy breach]

Its like -10% energy and combo points

[swift tinsel]

someone simmed with it as mainhand and asked why their damage was so low

[rugged condor]

LOL

[digital jacinth]

is it a meaningful loss to use SB with everything else rather than delay here?

[tepid trellis]

whats meaningful to you?

[digital jacinth]

0.5%?

[tepid trellis]

then it wont matter for you, aslong as both sectechs land inside of blades duration you are fine

[hazy breach]

There you go

[swift tinsel]

dang

[digital jacinth]

lmao

thank you

both

[vestal escarp]

[leaden prairie]

what if

you use everything else when you press blades

instead

trinket pot blades cb sec tech !

big tech i just invented it

no cappa

[tepid trellis]

well that would suck

[vestal escarp]

zac cook

[tepid trellis]

considering cb is used in the 2nd dance and not the first

sir

[leaden prairie]

hey man

that aint my screenshot

you understood

sir

dont sir me

sir

im a master main sub

[swift tinsel]

swifty macro dream dead

[leaden prairie]

and i have sec tech bound separately

than my cb sec tech macro

[swift tinsel]

no razer naga

[leaden prairie]

im no noob !

[tepid trellis]

nah u just a big noob

[leaden prairie]

bro

wtf

no wae

I hope you get banned

[tepid trellis]

same

free me from this god forsaken game

[crystal bone]

[pliant topaz]

dont worry my lil french pirate, ill defend you. ill bring this mean behaviour to the mods

[pliant topaz]

its easier than you think mr racoon

[leaden prairie]

thank you

i knew i could count on you

always

nerf sub !

[sly shore]

@hazy breach does sub track tier set

[pliant topaz]

mashallah

[leaden prairie]

i will track your tier set buddy

[vestal escarp]

you can track it for placebo

[leaden prairie]

well wasnt there something about not finishing when you are about to enter cds

[vocal bear]

the first dance talent seems bait VS weaponmaster in M+
Are there really scenarios of "6sec stealth between packs" ?
I mean everyone is chainpulling or pulling eachpack within an interval of 3sec.
6sec seems like a lot

Am I crazy or what ?

[leaden prairie]

uh finishing as in real finishers

to not lose the stacsk

is that gone already

!

simmers where are the sims !

[vestal escarp]

yes ( no)

[latent finch]

is there still the bug list command?

[hazy breach]

Mostly yes. You could skip if you wanted to

In a dummy scenario you wouldnt need to know about it

But if you want to hold stacks for a burst phase and/or not lose your stacks on a mob with 2% hp left in m+ it could be nice

[tepid trellis]

the fuck u finna do?

ill bully zac all i want

[leaden prairie]

No

[leaden prairie]

But is that fake DPS then

Why would it not be worth on a dummy

Explain

[hazy breach]

On average its not worth on dummies

[tepid trellis]

real world scenarios vs sim

[hazy breach]

But if you need to burst down an add with a tight dps check

[leaden prairie]

Ok

If damage amp coming im allowed

Otherwise I'm not

[tepid trellis]

was about to say

think about first boss mist

when you are pooling dances for the burst anyway

stuff like that

[leaden prairie]

Ye

[hazy breach]

Ye would you rather do two eviscerates on the tree or have 20% more damage during the burst

[tepid trellis]

or like early prog ansurek, the mob before you get send up had no health and you needed sub cds for platform 1, you couldve done some pooling for that

[hazy breach]

Its only 15%, so most of the time the eviscerate is going to be better

But if you lose the stack, it fucking sucks

[leaden prairie]

Ye

I'm ngl I hate the tier set btw

Idk about you guys

It just sucks losing it before cds

[tepid trellis]

then dont gamble it away

[leaden prairie]

It's shit design

As always with rogue stuffs

Is ok tho

[tepid trellis]

atleast they gave us 1 crumb of control on it

[autumn flame]

when does ds beat trickster

[vestal escarp]

when it gets reworked

[autumn flame]

cinderbrew maybe?

[steel zinc]

Maybe only dungeon and only at the start

So kinda depends on comp

[granite river]

how big is holding coup for dance ?

[tepid trellis]

DS just blows

[tepid trellis]

not worth it

send it whenever its up

[granite river]

love that

that used to be a thing tho ?

[steel zinc]

Not worth just send it

[pliant topaz]

im telling mom

[steel zinc]

yeah ages ago

[tepid trellis]

back before Shadowdust was removed yeh

[autumn flame]

eh gonna try it in cinderbrew

[steel zinc]

like start of exp

[steel zinc]

Thats what ptr is for

[granite river]

beaut, hated doing that

thanks

[vestal escarp]

finished all 15s as DS

[autumn flame]

real

[granite river]

DS would be fine imo if you could just move the mark whenever

[hazy breach]

Thats not really an issue for sub

Main issue for sub is that a DN eviscerate is not good in aoe

[autumn flame]

singular focus should be alright prio no?

[hazy breach]

And the fact that it sucks to press Sectech during DN as you wont get any mark damage

[vestal escarp]

focus is good

[tepid trellis]

it just wasent made for sub

and it shows

[hazy breach]

Yep

Its clearly made for assa

[autumn flame]

just strike for mark then powder goes brr?

[hazy breach]

Just like trickster is clearly made for sub

[tepid trellis]

considering they fixed it for assa

and broke it for sub

doing so

id say yeah

[tepid trellis]

im watching casual play outlaw atm

[valid flame]

When new patch comes out, is it still better to use CB on second sec tech?

[tepid trellis]

im getting dizzy from him pressing KS

[tepid trellis]

yes

[hazy breach]

Its actually even better

[steel zinc]

DS mark is one of the worst stuff ever. Its like classic combo points bs where its on the target and not on you

[valid flame]

so def don't want em macroed lol

thanks guys!

[kind edge]

I have both. Macro and not macro. Like dance with sob and w/o.

[hazy breach]

Its usually better when youre the one "driving" rather than watching the stream, but in the case of KS its literally the same when playing

You just get whiplashed around

Luckily it doesnt look too hot

[tepid trellis]

gotta love stuff like BF needing to get tuned every patch

[naive zodiac]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[naive zodiac]

[hazy breach]

[molten citrus]

[valid flame]

Also, for the second set of flag/sb how many seconds should your SB have left on CD when Flag comes up?

I'm finding I have like 7 seconds with flag up waiting for SB

[hazy breach]

You want to be able to use blades when you should be using blades in the burst sequence

Its mostly just pull using flag 2 globals earlier

Like on pull you'd go flag > evis >strike>rupture>send
Whereas mid fight you'd go flag>rupture>send.

[valid flame]

makes sense

tysm

[misty hare]

anyone know why my CB/sectec macro isn't casting CB? isn't that off the gcd

[tepid trellis]

make sure the macro is on your stealth bar

[mighty citrus]

i had that problem when i was playing assa fb before

[tepid trellis]

also that

[mighty citrus]

then cb did not trigger anymore

[hazy breach]

Oh ye if youve played fatebound with the cb talent you need to relogg

For CB to work

[bleak night]

lmao

[misty hare]

LMAO sec tec being on stealth bar...4head

[steel zinc]

Guys it's over 24 hours until patch and rogue tier still broken.

We need to start the doom

[kind bluff]

If u want doom go to the enh disc

[steel zinc]

Sectech not working is how much %?

[hazy breach]

Why are enhance dooming

Are they just predooming

[kind bluff]

They added a soft cap

[steel zinc]

They and ele need to be nerfed

[hazy breach]

Idk like 1% or something, not nearly as big now

Since the 4p buff is 1/3 as strong

[steel zinc]

Ok then we need a 5% baseline buff. But no meme ur sure only 1%? Since it's inconsistent it won't be added to sims or?

[autumn flame]

bruh how is the enhance disc dooming