subtlety

[leaden prairie]

ye fake

[barren wolf]

proud and loud

[tribal blade]

oh are we having freedom chat right now

[lilac stag]

That is right now. S1

S2 isn’t now

[leaden prairie]

s2 is soon tho

[lilac stag]

And those sims aren’t complete.

[leaden prairie]

we can almsot say its now no ?

[fierce minnow]

ye was wondering about 11.1 preliminary ST sims of all classes, but it appears nothing is public yet

[lilac stag]

someone has a paywalled spreadsheet

[vestal escarp]

[vale pine]

!sheet - light mode 2nd tab

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

According to warriors anyone under 2.7 is

[vale pine]

rogues sandbagging confirmed

[leaden prairie]

whats our number

didnt check

[lilac stag]

what class/spec did you want @fierce minnow

[leaden prairie]

oh wtf

we under

assa is at 2.2

[leaden prairie]

[fierce minnow]

all of them, like a complete list, just out of curiousity, not just rogue

the current state of the gossip

[vale pine]

i will re-run stuff after reset tho

[fierce minnow]

deadge

[vale pine]

so lets see after that

[lilac stag]

You won’t find it, but the top half is 2.8-3

[tribal blade]

dw they'll rebuff sin to be the top ST rogue spec

[leaden prairie]

wait

rogue is so dead no ?

[barren wolf]

thank god they buffed assa aoe

LOL

[vestal escarp]

it's a give at this point

[leaden prairie]

you dont deserve hapinnes var

[worn cape]

In the current PTR state, we don't run DS at all anymore? Just Trickster for everything?

[barren wolf]

well it will get buffed

a big time

[leaden prairie]

you are american

[barren wolf]

french ass

[leaden prairie]

no!

[lilac stag]

You never ran DS on live either.

[leaden prairie]

i aint french

[tribal blade]

oh wee wee crousant

[barren wolf]

garcon

shut up

[leaden prairie]

both of you made mistakesd

[vestal escarp]

morderidre

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-baguette-toy-cute-gif-16071533

[leaden prairie]

while typing a single word

crazy no ?

[leaden prairie]

this one funnny tho

[barren wolf]

type a word in romanian

without google

[fierce minnow]

baguetted

[worn cape]

https://tenor.com/view/pedro-monkey-puppet-meme-awkward-gif-7230416695831822604

[barren wolf]

esti prost de iti curg balele @leaden prairie

[leaden prairie]

no

[leaden prairie]

idc you noob

cant even type a french word

bozo

[leaden prairie]

wait

this says my balls are leaking

what does it mean

[barren wolf]

it means youre so stupid you drool

[lilac stag]

Outlaw class description.

[tribal blade]

why be smart when there are smart people to make all these things for me to use

[worn cape]

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I am gonna miss DS 😦

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-awkward-awkward-dog-staring-dog-patchibana-gif-13086408744970718509

[leaden prairie]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/855552726934487061/1224411287375839323/993919954804035655.gif

[vestal escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-meme-cat-stare-cat-shocked-stare-gif-1398922735574533156

[lilac stag]

@tepid raven @final wasp

[keen dome]

Doggies

[brisk onyx]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[kind bluff]

So we are playing around the tier set and only using rupture at 25 seconds to cd window?

[hazy breach]

no

Not in general

Shockingly cutting the value of the tierset in half lowered the importance of playing around it

[random hare]

LLOOOOOOOOLLLL WTF IS THAT GIF

[steel zinc]

General no just highly depends on the situation especially in m+. Going into a next pack with Max stacks and full cds is very valuable.
I think you can compare it to having cds ready when a mob is below 10%. You will obviously not send then cds and you will obviously not want to lose your stacks if your gonna pull with cds and stacks the next pack/boss.

Also I think sub is really good and hard to show in dungeon slice imo since the value of first dance let's you play different

[random hare]

[void hound]

[keen dome]

[lilac stag]

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-monday-monday-sunday-hsr-sunday-hsr-gif-11559738718341554839

[round latch]

nerf outlul

or nvm

buff it

less outlaws to channels that matter

[vale pine]

i have yet to see outlaw perform as well as in sims

🙈

[lilac stag]

[round latch]

i dont mind,its outlaw,nobody cares,irrelevant spec

i care mostly for less pirate madness

rly value mental health

[lilac stag]

I would genuinely enjoy it more if cap was 8 and the apm didn’t flair my fibro

rtb can die

[leaden prairie]

Cap is 8

Or wdym

[lilac stag]

Soft sorry

[leaden prairie]

Ah

[keen dome]

Should be soft, def

Hard caps are BORING

[leaden prairie]

[round latch]

isnt cap at 8

[lilac stag]

fury same thing, but the flow to me is better overall there for me and I can actually play an entire raid. The joys of fibro

[lilac stag]

See follow up

[leaden prairie]

Fury has a bunch of uncapped stuffs tho

So it's fine

[round latch]

blocked msges fam,dont even dare^^

[leaden prairie]

I'm glad sap blocked me

[lilac stag]

I love you all.

[keen dome]

Same

[leaden prairie]

[tribal blade]

fury is uncapped cd damage and capped steady damage right

[lilac stag]

Like special ed class in discord and we’re all students.

[keen dome]

lmao

[leaden prairie]

Yes basically

[tribal blade]

maybe they should do that to outlaw

same philosophy

[barren wolf]

maybe they should remove outlaw

[keen dome]

Remake killing spree to just be a buff that uncaps everything. Letting you go on.. a killing spree

[hazy breach]

They already have it, its called blade rush

[tribal blade]

hahaha blade rush you right

too bad it's kinda noodle /cry

didn't outlaw have cannon barrage in it's first iteration

[round latch]

outlaw needs some srs attention,its completely silly atm

[keen dome]

bring back cannon barrage

[round latch]

but ye

lul

[tribal blade]

i think rogue in general

maybe not so much sin tbh

[round latch]

yup,after outlaw sub needs some srs love

sin kinda fiiiine

maybe fix the tree a bit

[tribal blade]

i'm just scared that if we get serious attention we lose the ability to have full ST dam in aoe talents

[leaden prairie]

Remove deathstalker

Remove fatebound

[vestal escarp]

sin tree has like 2 (two) nodes that are outdated

[round latch]

outlaw is the garbage u throw to the trash

every morning

[leaden prairie]

You can keep trickster for sub

[round latch]

holysht its bad

[lilac stag]

nimble is a thing.

[round latch]

yup and they need to move 1-2 to places that make sense

[lilac stag]

Keep DS theme. Delete everything else but the evasion/cloak talent

[haughty mural]

why are you ranting against those outlaw guys like this sap

[lilac stag]

It’s Monday. It’s what we do.

[round latch]

there is a reason for eveyrthing fam

[hazy breach]

I mean theyve apparently made "Totemic" a slapper hero talent that people want to play now

Despite it being DS levels of hated earlier in the expac

[frank musk]

Rogues and other Rogues are natural enemies.

Apparently

[hazy breach]

So they can do it, in theory

[lilac stag]

Just remember. sub tier in keys.

[lilac stag]

Yeah. They actually need to put effort into it though.

[leaden prairie]

Was it hated or just bad

[leaden prairie]

Worse screenshot in history

[lilac stag]

I can do better. Trust

Just post an outlaw details.

[leaden prairie]

Big number

[random hare]

Hated, it was stronger before trickster buff in some areas in season 1 I think

[uncut grove]

bro sub rogue rotation is so unituitive

[leaden prairie]

Wdym

[tribal blade]

yessir

[lilac stag]

We’re talking enhance

[leaden prairie]

Just press all CDs and do damage

It's not unintuitive

[hazy breach]

Hated

[uncut grove]

idk, it's hard for me to understand all these unseen blade mechanics, also why is even blackpowder here if we barely use it in trickster lol

[random hare]

deathstalker enhance

Good one

[tribal blade]

i hear totemic is absurdly simple to play

[lilac stag]

Totemic dumdum

[uncut grove]

• there is no sub rogue guide at all, on yt, and i can't read

[random hare]

Look what what he replied to

Maybe you’ll know

[tribal blade]

the guy on my raid team who fotm swapped to enhance can only play totemic to a reasonably higher level

if he plays tempest he does 0 dam

[random hare]

[lilac stag]

Eleem was comparing rogue hatred of DS to enhance hated of totemic. I know reading in here is a struggle.

[uncut grove]

tbh i miss good old times when everything u had to do was to use shuriken storm and BP

[slate lantern]

totemic is supposed to be more nuanced but on my alt i threw it on and was doing silly dps and spamming like 3 buttons?

[tribal blade]

i honestly have 0 clue, i'm just parroting what i heard 😉

but he was complaining about playing it while we were progging queen

"it's so annoying, i have to move the totem every time she moves"

and then several people were like "...bro, you can literally just macro it to every ability"

fotm players

[lilac stag]

mY t0t3mS

Does you key shammy only play ele @tribal blade ?

[tribal blade]

he knows how to play enhance which is what he used to play (because why would you play ele over enhance before)

but now that ele is an actual spec he mains it

[lilac stag]

gotcha. He was blasting as ele

[tribal blade]

he does! he's a good player

[lilac stag]

our shaman can’t play melee. Brain melts

[tribal blade]

he's the type of player who has the chops to make title but never has

because he always gives up

so this next season he wants to wait until we're close to bis gear midway through prog before we start a serious push

to avoid burnout

[lilac stag]

makes sense. So what I’m hearing is Monday double rogue vault keys.

[tribal blade]

haha maybe!

[hazy breach]

Its gonna be very silly on patch day

Since sub was omega buffed to compensate the tier nerf

We just end up being way stronger after patch

[steel zinc]

first week sub will blast

[hazy breach]

As we didnt have the tier

[lilac stag]

I enjoyed running keys with you. We had some silly pugs

[crystal bone]

myth transmitter in my vault tomorrow

[lilac stag]

I think my ST sim in current gear was up to 1.78

from like 1.5

Higher with TFD

[tribal blade]

my guild is doing 1 last queen kill next reset

i'm hoping to see crazy sub numbers

[lilac stag]

we are deep in the woods for RWL

[tribal blade]

OH SHIT

how close are you guys now

[hazy breach]

A lot of others also got insane buffs but ye

[tribal blade]

true yeah

[lilac stag]

trying to clean up p2

[tribal blade]

the warrs on my team are probably gonna go apeshit

[lilac stag]

We fired a monk. So our tank is swapping to brm

[tribal blade]

jesus

[lilac stag]

roster boss vs my sanity

[random hare]

u realize that totemic is also hated right

[lilac stag]

jesus

[random hare]

maybe u just like to reply random stuff but thats ok

[tribal blade]

damn swapping out a tank mid queen prog gonna be rough

[random hare]

i was replying to zac

not to you

its always the guy with a cat pfp

rat ftw

[lilac stag]

reading ftw

[random hare]

me when i pretend im correct 24/7

[vestal escarp]

yeah wednesday reclear is gonna be fun

but other classed got buffed more

[latent finch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

I think my fury sim with aoe stuff for queen jumped from 1.4 to 1.84

have to see how troll anger management is

[vestal escarp]

[haughty mural]

is zerossman ragebaiting

cant tell

[barren wolf]

wdym you cant tell

[vestal escarp]

not any different from usual

[random hare]

CHAT I WANT 1 DPSER

FOR PTR KEYS

!

[vestal escarp]

[molten citrus]

wait for kushin

[thorn stream]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[stoic lark]

why is sectec the first finisher in dance in the opener and not the second?

[molten citrus]

many reasons

[lilac stag]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[molten citrus]

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[molten citrus]

!burst

[wicked jolt]

During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.

[molten citrus]

what was the sec tech command again

[hazy breach]

Dont think there is one.

Main thing is to make sure you get two of them during your burst

Which is sketch if youre not using it as your first finisher

But also more unsseen blades and flawless stacks for the rest of dance

[lilac stag]

!kb

[molten citrus]

you right just checked

other than those its just !cb

[hazy breach]

We dont play around danse macabre anymore really. Other things have higher priority now

[lilac stag]

talents making a capstone ignorable. Peak rogue design

[keen dome]

It's just bonus damage

[lilac stag]

and most people that read are like oh wow that’s cool. So I can build up my finisher.

Then math says hello

I hate math.

[keen dome]

It's definently one of those awkward quirks. I, before I joined here, thought i had to play around it too haha

Back in DF

[lilac stag]

it reads like you should

[keen dome]

Ye

[stoic lark]

thank! i was just wondering cuz wowhead still says to use it as second finisher in dance in the box before the opener and i couldnt find any infos for why its not done in the guides

[hazy breach]

He probably just forgot to update, its likely adressed with the 11.1 update which should go live soon

[lilac stag]

SoD finishers are more a prio than dance

And the opener age should show it as first

[stoic lark]

it is live. at least it says 11.1 and updated today. thats why i was wondering what i dont get 😄

[lilac stag]

Literally first in dance/sod in opener

Also top priority in text

So not sure what or where you’re seeing what you’re seeing. @stoic lark

[molten citrus]

it's on the main sub page

[lilac stag]

@vale pine ^

it’s in the header. Just saw it.

unless fuu is going with the keep it simple route

not sure if just left overs

[molten citrus]

i feel like for some things keeping it simple causes confusion

[vale pine]

oh, thats a old version

[lilac stag]

That’s 11.1 live

[vale pine]

i had to wait for the release

ye

[lilac stag]

gotcha

[vale pine]

i have a newer locally

i can push later

[lilac stag]

Cheers

Thanks for clarifying.

[vale pine]

but the header, i did not realize, ill fix

moment

[molten citrus]

[lilac stag]

waits for sub rogue bug fix. Change current live version. Forget to change on upcoming deployment version.

revisit header conversation tomorrow.

[molten citrus]

as long as RS fix goes live

everything is right in the world

[vestal escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-glorpshit-mad-gif-12826934952903770254

[vale pine]

na, i did some edits yesterday i did not put on wowhead and will do more today, i have a bit of a rework of the rotation section

[lilac stag]

let me know when you push update. I’ll proof it then.

[vale pine]

ill give you a sneakpeak in dm's in a moment

[lilac stag]

Kk

[vale pine]

but still, ill fix the header

[cinder steppe]

hello
Trickster:Trickster:: Keep using eviscerates up to 6 targets in aoe. So dont start doing 1 storm in dance or BPs until 7 or more targets are present.
this is cuz of nimble flury buffs?

[vale pine]

as i did not realize its wrong

[lilac stag]

Yes

[lilac stag]

Technically not wrong, just conflicting and less dmg.

[tranquil garden]

there's no need to worry about getting coup de grace supercharged, right? since both just add effective combo points and it's linear scaling

[vale pine]

yes

you want to get supercharger on your secret

but for coup or else, it does not matter

[leaden prairie]

does it actually works with coup even

since coup is 3 thinggies

[valid vault]

whats the best trinket after kezan and cards?

[vale pine]

transmitter

[valid vault]

really?

[vestal escarp]

yes

[valid vault]

like say you couldn't get kezan because everyone wants it what would next option be

[vale pine]

i made it very clear on wowhead that the best trinkets are quite a bit ahead

[valid vault]

ah okay mb, i was just checking pins

[vale pine]

eleem did also mention it

[crystal bone]

m0's are tomorrow right guys?

[grave delta]

gonna miss my transmitter minigame

press a trinket get some stats

🥱

[valid vault]

yeah i was more looking for if i couldn't get kezan

guild wanted us to notify second and third trinkets

[vale pine]

don't worry, you will use transmitter for quite a bit in s2

[tranquil garden]

looks like cdg was originally a scaling number that could be supercharged, kind of disappointing that supercharger only really gets played around for secret technique but, I guess it makes the rotation easier

[grave delta]

I will be acquiring the world first heroic house of cards

[vale pine]

!sheet has trinket simulations (light mode, seaosn 2 tab)

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tranquil garden]

judging by history, transmitter will probably eat a major nerf in the first or second tuning passes after the release

[worn cape]

nobody knows

[vale pine]

they already nerfed it by 5%

[tranquil garden]

I know

[vale pine]

and i think we are one of the few classes still using it

*specs

[valid vault]

ty

[tranquil garden]

there's no way it doesn't eat a massive nerf in the first or second pass

[leaden prairie]

fake news

[vale pine]

possible, if so means i need to re-do the list again ^^

but essentially as its now

most trinkets + transmitter get you quite far

so you can farm delves/m+ for the first week

and then get cards (fro 6/8 boss) and eye (from the endboss) if you are lucky

[wild hornet]

Fuu my goat

[sand ore]

Rip me who doesn’t have transmitter

[slate lantern]

nope, tomorrow is dead week

[jolly pasture]

theres no reason to do m0s at all is there?

[slate lantern]

all the new toys and nothing to do with them

[hazy breach]

Just loot a house of cards

[jolly pasture]

we can go into m+ straight away

[slate lantern]

i mean i think you might have to do a m0 to get a key? but yea basically m0 is dead content, maybe fine for alt catchup?

[granite river]

There’s no m+ tomorrow tho

[slate lantern]

theres no m0 tomorrow either

[civic lava]

Ah truly ? sad

[granite river]

Yeah ok rip

More ptr it is then

[jolly pasture]

idk if this changed for this season, but we always used to get a key at reduced lvl at start of new season

[vale pine]

think m+ does not open before season start

i am not even sure if m0 works

did someone try on ptr?

[crystal bone]

m+ is in 1 week 1 day

not sure bout m0

[steel zinc]

article live?

[vale pine]

yes

[slate lantern]

idk how they could have messed up communicating m0 and heroic release dates

[deep adder]

yes there is m0 on wednesday reset

[vale pine]

the 11.1 guides are on wowhead, but i have a newer guide version for the rotation i sitll need to push later

the one on wowhead has only small adjustments

[lilac stag]

Ilvl, catalyst, valor stones, crests

[slate lantern]

how would there be m0 for season gear that the season hasnt started yet

wowhead itself says m0 and heroics release when the season releases

[vale pine]

season release is with raid relese

^^

[deep adder]

Yea

[raw wigeon]

any update with sims?

[deep adder]

catch up? who even says season gear

[jolly pasture]

i mean we will have m+

[slate lantern]

the new system is weekly lockout, with champion track gear for m0.

[vale pine]

!fuu has initial simulations in the Season 2 tab on the light mode, i will probably after reset start to move everything to a season 2 page and re-do simulation with (probably) last minute changes

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Not everyone is going to be geared to hop in +7

[deep adder]

bro wowhead says 11.1 starts 26th of February

[deep adder]

i mean who is not able to do +10 week 1 with s1 bis ?

[raw wigeon]

i saw this i meant with the new changes

[lilac stag]

People that can’t complete 12s

[slate lantern]

"will release at the same time of the season start"

season starts march 4

[jolly pasture]

if you played 11.0 you literally outgear m0 day one

[keen dome]

11.1 isn't Season 2. Season 2 is March.

[deep adder]

i know

lol

dead game if so

[bleak night]

need time to get your car

[vale pine]

as frontier posted

[keen dome]

M0 is pretty good for catchup / quick gearing since it's 636 gear iirc. Which means you'll quickly be hitting Myth S1 stuff.

[vale pine]

raid week is daily reset

[sand ore]

Most people

[tranquil garden]

you've got a week to play the new storyline instead of rushing to the endgame, big deal

[keen dome]

And vroom

[deep adder]

idk, wasnt 12 pretty easy for everyone rn?

[sand ore]

Most people I mean most of the player base

[keen dome]

The vast majority of people in WoW do not do difficult content. It is a minority doing 10's, let alone higher.

[sand ore]

Most wow players can’t do 8’s

[tranquil garden]

lot of us are switching characters for the new season

[keen dome]

I think AotC is something like 20%~ this season too. CE is still sub-1% (And I think low Mythic is around 5 - 8%?)

[deep adder]

Yea i mean but those who are doing higher keys rn will be doing 10s + day 1

[leaden prairie]

not timing 20s day one is kinda a skill issue tbh

[bleak night]

true

[keen dome]

It's actually quite interesting how small a percentage of the playerbase engage with the high end-game

[slate lantern]

Aprroximately 90% of people with an m+ rating didnt do a 12 this season

[sand ore]

Yeah, but the point is that most people won’t do 10’s for a few weeks if ever

[deep adder]

dunno about that one, 50% of wows player base are boosted anyways

[keen dome]

lol?

[sand ore]

What

[sand ore]

This is something someone who’s boosted would say

[leaden prairie]

characters *

which tbf is quite different

[lilac stag]

10s are 12s now. 7s are going to be the crest farms. 10s for vault.

[vestal escarp]

bro wtf i have title?????

[deep adder]

🤣🤣

[vestal escarp]

oh it's NA

bad bait

[lilac stag]

2 more weeks until edgelords vanish.

[keen dome]

19.7% of max level accounts have AotC.

[deep adder]

Thats insane

[swift tinsel]

Not really

[deep adder]

lmfao

[keen dome]

It's actually a bit lower than the DF seasons, but not remotely out there as a data.

[random hare]

rookery +12 end of key overall

ele getting pi

[sand ore]

Brother most wow players don’t do any dungeons or raids

[random hare]

sub is mega op if played well holy cow

[vestal escarp]

herotalents?

[random hare]

@leaden prairie

trickster

[keen dome]

damn, I'll never be mega op

[sand ore]

There’s a huge section of the player base that hit 80 then go sit in Stormwind and rp all season

[slate lantern]

true, i have a bunch of alts sitting at like 1k cause i would just mess around with them

[keen dome]

Looking at the data on what people do in WoW is superduper fascinating imo.

[haughty mural]

i think kush did even more with assa earlier

might be wrong

[vestal escarp]

ofc

[lilac stag]

Laps around dornogal bis

[vestal escarp]

cant beat assa on overall

[keen dome]

I miss the fountain

[lilac stag]

He did

[slate lantern]

training dummies HATE to see me coming

[deep adder]

wat 😂

[leaden prairie]

noob damage

[haughty mural]

"so assa mega op holy cow" aswell ?

[bleak night]

oribos lap timer was bis

only good part of that expansion

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-boy-cowboy-gif-9675394768794116913

[keen dome]

I've yet to find a good place in Dornogal but I did find a rock to idle on

Pretty big fan of my rock

[random hare]

it depends on the dungeon

[bleak night]

its not terrible to just fly around randomly

[lilac stag]

It’s more aoe and just tossing ruptures. Easier gameplay. Just bitch about boss dmg. Rinse and Repeat S1

[bleak night]

but it doesnt have as satisfying of a loop

[random hare]

rookery isnt much aoe

rly low

6 targets is like a decent pack there

[haughty mural]

that was my secret point

[lilac stag]

I found your technique

[slate lantern]

outlaw STONKS

[vestal escarp]

first pull rookery should be 12 or so

[keen dome]

How are people handling the corridor after boss 1 to boss 2, out of interest?

[haughty mural]

[leaden prairie]

kill mobs

[swift tinsel]

isn't that the bullet hell hallway?

or did they change stuff around

[keen dome]

All I remember is you'd jump down and pull to the room before boss 2. Curious how that's gonna be in M+

[swift tinsel]

I only vaguely remember it being annoying bc its a narrower hallway with a ton of circles on the ground that spawn pretty frequently

haven't been there at all since early season

[keen dome]

Yeah same

[random hare]

the adds?

i mean on +12 we dont rly cc and shit

on 15 i kidney on cd outside of cds

[steel zinc]

I pushed a bit after first weeks of prog keys and did my 11. Pre nerf 12s was not any fun with like 625. The System was omega poorly tuned at the start of the season

[keen dome]

Hoping S2 is a lot more chill and fun

[swift tinsel]

how's the darkness portion of DFC?

[sand ore]

Just turn up the brightness on your monitor

Ez

[swift tinsel]

based

also gotta min/max dynamite minigame

[sand ore]

Just light a fuse that’s tied to your pc

Ez

[frail swift]

i've never played sub before.... how hard is it?

[swift tinsel]

it takes a bit to get used to but its not really as bad as people think

once you get the core concepts

[keen dome]

Ye. It's less hard and more complex. Once you learn the fundamentals, it's great.

[frail swift]

harder than ass?

[swift tinsel]

Different focus than sin

you pay attention to different things than sin

[vernal junco]

What key level in this season is equivalent to M0 in the next season? in terms of numbers

[tidal marsh]

I'm genuinely curious

Do you actually think something like a spec has a universal difficulty?

[swift tinsel]

its hard to compare the two in terms of difficulty because they require different skillsets

Sub has you looking at your cooldowns and making decisions based on what you can send and when without borking your big cooldown windows

The vast majority of our damage is condensed into our flagellation+shadow blades window so maximizing the damage you do there is the most important thing

[nova heath]

Sub or assa have best ST in s2?

[rich dragon]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sand ore]

So are we able to do S1 keys still tomorrow?

[vestal escarp]

for score yes

[swift tinsel]

won't get an s2 vault until the 11th right

[vestal escarp]

right

[swift tinsel]

and we can get gear from m0 starting tomorrow but its a weekly lockout per dungeon?

[hazy breach]

Probably not

But who knows

[keen dome]

I am very curious about the M0 thing but my gut says it'll be S1 still

[swift tinsel]

I can't remember how it worked in s1

[twilit phoenix]

Yeah I don’t think we get m0s tomorrow

[vestal escarp]

until 5th dungeon pool should remain current

[random hare]

@leaden prairie ML +14

abit scuffed run this is before last boss wipe

[twilit phoenix]

Oh damn you played with psybear

[leaden prairie]

low dam noob

[twilit phoenix]

MEOW

[frail swift]

some specs have more crossover than others therefore you're relearning everything.

[tidal marsh]

So...the answer...is no

which was exactly my point

and which makes your question kinda pointless

[vestal escarp]

bro all i see is floorpovving

[random hare]

i want to see a real sham vs rogue ngl

ok

crims is coming @leaden prairie

big dps race

[leaden prairie]

crims is washed up no cap

[vale pine]

nice

[worthy axle]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[worthy axle]

Is there any weak aura to track new tier on PTR?

[shell willow]

@random hare in that Rookery key how often were you black powdering? Also are you just using backstab to get nimble up and just storming outside of cds and then shadowstriking in our dance window?

[swift crest]

omg this spec is to hard men

[bleak night]

i do love hard men

[swift crest]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[swift crest]

ffs

[twin basin]

why not recommended to macro CB & ST? wut

stupid app

[shell willow]

!cd

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[leaden prairie]

stupid app !

[bleak night]

[keen dome]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[granite river]

5 mil when

[fluid moth]

Does it make sense to use CB on Coup de Grace in dance windows? i.e. Dance --> Secret Tech --> Shadowstrike --> CB Coup de Grace

[granite river]

No

[sullen hare]

No

[fluid moth]

okie dokie

[random hare]

now soon

cooking cooking

[leaden prairie]

washed up no damage noob

[granite river]

We getting nerfed bc this screenshot

[proper latch]

Do you play around tier bonus stacks @random hare?

[random hare]

no

u can if theres a big pack coming

[molten citrus]

zeross still learning

doing bigdam

[leaden prairie]

sub is op

nerf mayeb ?

[vestal escarp]

chat why is zeross posting details screenshots of 1 pull?

[random hare]

?!

thats 3 pulls

[honest saddle]

Unless the pull was 2 minutes long

[random hare]

YOOO CLOAK IS

MASTERY VERS

SHEEEEEEEESH

in catalyst

ok ok

[honest saddle]

BIG CATALYST

[random hare]

i check belt and wrist in a min

[leaden prairie]

sub season

gg

[honest saddle]

feels good man

until nerfed

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[random hare]

oh i think

the catalysted other items

[fickle mason]

Is sub stonks for prepatch week? Over sin?

[random hare]

are just pre catalysted from tier set mob

[fickle mason]

For raid

[crystal bone]

lets see damage breakdown

even using bp anymore?

[vestal escarp]

he is

[honest saddle]

either one is perfectly fine. Play whatever you want for prepatch week

[vestal escarp]

first upll is big like 9 t

[random hare]

yea

[crystal bone]

oh which dungeon

[random hare]

this is 1st pull ML

motherlode

scuffed pull tho

[honest saddle]

show boss dam on first boss @random hare please. I know it has the dam amp

[random hare]

we wiped on it

[vestal escarp]

expand BP zeross ty

[random hare]

tank was sus

yea i want a clean 1st boss pull

i think i can nail off 5m end of fight

depending on kill timer ofc

[leaden prairie]

how is nimble doing taht much damage when you are spamming bp actually

[tropic nimbus]

sS

[vestal escarp]

he pressed a bunch of evis

[random hare]

shadowstrike does dmg

and evisc

few evisc

[distant bison]

what u guys do with rotten as trickster? sstrikes or shuriken to apply find weakness

[random hare]

shadowstrike first stack

2nd is shuriken in aoe

[leaden prairie]

you barely pressing evis tho thats crazy

nerf nimble

[hazy breach]

Strike > sectech > storm > bp > strikes at 7 or more targets. Otherwise just pure ST

Oh mb wrong response

@distant bison

[shell willow]

Lol so much BP damage

[honest saddle]

evisc and shadowstrike do like 4.5% of his dam

multiply that by like 10 adds

and then multiply the nimble by 60%

[leaden prairie]

26.6%

[honest saddle]

well its like 7 adds because of cap

but yeah

[distant bison]

isnt it 8 targets? main + 7? i do powders 8+

[hazy breach]

No

7

It was 5 until nimble got buffed a couple of days ago

[distant bison]

nimble tooltip says up to 7 additional targets im confused

[hazy breach]

Yes

But BP does more damage anyway

On 6 targets bp and evis with nimble does the same damage

[distant bison]

so i do strikes no matter how big is the pull and if its 7+ powder?

[hazy breach]

On 7 bp does more

[hazy breach]

#subtlety message

[honest saddle]

is it big this season to not run nado

or can I just run veil and be similar

[vestal escarp]

also that BP dmg is missing a few FW

it could be even higher

silly

[crystal bone]

only 1 storm for find weakness?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[vestal escarp]

[crystal bone]

but in 6 targets or less

no storm

in dance

[hazy breach]

Correct

[shell willow]

storm is most efficient energy though no?

[vestal escarp]

storm and strike same energy

[hazy breach]

Strike does like 10x the damage of storm

And lets you get coup stacks

[shell willow]

yeah but a storm in a 5 pack gives you enough cp to bp immediately

[honest saddle]

were discussing during dance

[shell willow]

oo okay

yeah dance is pure st rotation

[hazy breach]

You cant strike outside of dance

[shell willow]

yeah i know i thought we were talking outside of dance

myb

[honest saddle]

death perception kind of makes dark brew unplayable

like I have a feeling if darkbrew was where rotten was

its a WAY better talent

like how do we ever play dark brew now

[shell willow]

my pvp build takes dark brew but i basically abandon that side of the tree

[honest saddle]

ahhh I hadnt considered pvp

thats good it gets used at least

[clear osprey]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shell willow]

1 pt in perception and then you can grab 2x finality and brew

[honest saddle]

did you drop macabre or shadowcraft

[shell willow]

kept both drop flag

staying on a target for 12 secs is not really feasible

[honest saddle]

yeah makes sense

[shell willow]

so much control and in our burst windows people just fall over it is kinda insane

[hazy breach]

Dark brew+1 death perception was equal to the standard build before they nerfed the tier set

[molten citrus]

Build on one and swap

Unless ur talking bgs that isn’t possible a lot of the time in em ig

[random hare]

@honest saddle whole run

1st boss was scuffed because i had an entire phase of no cd

so we got bombs + no cd into pre bomb + cd but boss died before that

[gleaming imp]

Beating the strimmer

[random hare]

4.14m dps on 1st boss

with really bad kill timer

[gleaming imp]

Not too bad

Wonder how assa would perform in that scenario

[random hare]

below enh for sure

[gleaming imp]

Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised

Sub seems pretty solid all around compared to the two other specs or am I just coping?

[leaden prairie]

Noob damage gg

[steel zinc]

Show talent build pls

[leaden prairie]

No don't !

[steel zinc]

Cause imo ds with db is cooked in some dungeons

[leaden prairie]

He plays trickster

Just normal trickster

[steel zinc]

Ok 👌

[gleaming imp]

Trickster doing trickster things

I’m guessing it’s still pulling ahead in raid also?

[slate lantern]

we are finish on 6+ cp always no matter what correct

[kindred saffron]

Crims also dooming about fire mage because he was getting beat by bamkin during keys

[swift tinsel]

Sounds mage-coded

[timber walrus]

When are m0's starting?

[leaden prairie]

Mage is op

[shell willow]

Sandbag inc

[leaden prairie]

It looks bad on ptr because they have to hold combust for like 30 s at end of packs

Because the keys are too low

And mobs have too little hp

On live you will send again for free

[wheat elk]

is it worth dropping fade to nothing for shadow focus?D:

[kindred saffron]

That's the perspective yes

But he was losing on the meters during a 16, was just lols

[granite river]

Skill issue

[vale pine]

Shadow focus is worth very little

[drifting fable]

is it worth to finality rupture in dance

or just never in dance

[vale pine]

skip

[drifting fable]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/815858867430490113/1343121817132466186/rx1C4Jz.gif

[vale pine]

haha i mean you don't rupture in dance

[drifting fable]

ye i got it lmao

[vale pine]

But it is worth to refresh rupture before/with flagellation so you don't need to use it once you go into dance/blades

[random hare]

@leaden prairie before the jumping boss guy in rookery

dude jumping boss is fucked

[leaden prairie]

the hit box is so small right

i hate all the mobs in there

they all do the aoes lines you know

and you always are like

not in range

so cringe

jumping boss is so cringe for mleees

[wheat elk]

hypothetical question, suppose there is 25s left on flag cd but the fight starts, is it ok to use dance symbols or wait for both dance charges for flag duration?

[random hare]

jump is 13 sec

each jump

[leaden prairie]

it can jump and afk casting

[random hare]

u cant send

sub cds

bro

like

wtf

is this

?!?!?!?

[leaden prairie]

the boss can just jump in poop

and afk

[random hare]

13 sec then he jumps

[leaden prairie]

its crazy

[random hare]

dude

u cannot dps without saving cloak for cds

its so stupid

[leaden prairie]

i swear there is no blizz dev playing melee

everything is so bad for melees

[random hare]

ye

'

its fucked man

dude

u know that the boss was chill?

2 weeks ago

[vale pine]

you can symbols + dance one time before your cooldowns are ready so do that

[random hare]

because u could bait jump

now u cant

xd

[wheat elk]

thanks brother

[swift crest]

why so many cds>?>>>>

[keen dome]

There's like four

[vale pine]

❤️

you will learn to love each one of them

[swift crest]

im shaking

[snow vapor]

casual talked about a bug that is giving sub dmg. How big is it? like wounded quarry big?

[swift crest]

my only comfort is not playing deathstalker

[hazy breach]

No, its like -1.5% or something, not huge

[swift tinsel]

Which bug is giving us damage?

[hazy breach]

Nah its the opposite, mb didnt read properly

[swift tinsel]

lol was gonna say that’s news

[keen dome]

Bonus damage would be nice

[swift tinsel]

Nah they’d fix that right away lol

Wouldn’t get a 2-year life out of that one

[keen dome]

Hey, you never know

[fickle mason]

So right now it is 6474 sin rogues on m+ 15 and up, 490 sub rogues, do you guys think itll be more Sin, sub, or outlaw(769) next season if tuning stays as it is.

[swift tinsel]

Sub supremacy

[keen dome]

Ask me in six weeks

[swift tinsel]

No other rogues

Triple sub meta

[keen dome]

God, could you imagine

one pack would die so quickly and then the next one would be alive froever

It's be glorious

[swift tinsel]

Maybe quad if healers go cosmetic again

[keen dome]

Why not five.

Just rotate evasion

[swift tinsel]

And were tanky af

It’s possible

[keen dome]

I could totally tank an M+

[boreal finch]

does nimble flurry work with blackpowder, on the tooltip it only says auto attacks, backstab, shadowstrike, evis?

[hazy breach]

It does not

[swift tinsel]

Nimble BP would scare me

[gritty gorge]

What makes us tankier than Assa? Hero?

[hazy breach]

The two defensive talents we have in our tree and the vers stacking

[keen dome]

[hazy breach]

Ig we technically have 3. but we can only really use 2 of them

[boreal finch]

Oh so what they mean here is we only use black powder on 7+ targets, otherwise just use evis?

[hazy breach]

Blackpowder does more damage than eviscerate on 7 targets

[boreal finch]

so 6 targets we evis instead

crazy

[versed terrace]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[vestal escarp]

pls buff nimble a lil more

[keen dome]

🙏

[hazy breach]

Ye it should be evis up to and including 8 targets, so it makes sense

But oh well

[keen dome]

Maybe we'll get another 10%

70% flurried SS/Evis

[swift tinsel]

a dream

[keen dome]

Or maybe they'll buff Evis..

[hazy breach]

Probably not without an aura nerf

[keen dome]

😨

[granite river]

I’m p sure casuals !11.1 command is outdated

[swift tinsel]

lmao strikes cleaving like s3 sl again

[keen dome]

Hahaha

[vestal escarp]

wdym sub is middle of pack rn

[hazy breach]

Definitely middle of the pack in m+

It doesnt seem turbo op

But its def good

[vestal escarp]

we'll see when things start to matter

sub cant join TOP

either duel or banner

ez brick

[swift tinsel]

good thing a bis ring is from ToP

[keen dome]

oh no

[swift tinsel]

I'm gonna save cd's for duel

[keen dome]

Same

[swift tinsel]

and make people my bitch

[vestal escarp]

for farming that wont matter at all

[keen dome]

It is more important I win the duel than anything else

[swift tinsel]

should be a leaderboard

[keen dome]

Comedy option of it being two Sub rogues nuking each other

"Why are they taking so long?"
Non-stop kidney / cheap / blinds

[swift tinsel]

time cooldowns for maximum duel uptime

[granite river]

You think sub is bad for banner?

[vestal escarp]

you cant win duel and help kill banner so the guy down there with you has to win duel, and not all specs can do it fast for free, if they burn they're in the same position as yours

[leaden prairie]

ok thats mega cope

thats like assa players saying sin is middle of the pack this season

[vestal escarp]

5 specs above sin in dmg so definetly middle

[granite river]

Fair enough, i would just /sleep for duel

[leaden prairie]

wdym 5

[granite river]

Idk depend on who you watch

[swift tinsel]

spam sit and turn around

[leaden prairie]

its like

enhance

elem

[hazy breach]

Ye thats what the is for

[leaden prairie]

boomie

[granite river]

No one doing more than casual

[leaden prairie]

??

[keen dome]

?????

[leaden prairie]

what else

[vestal escarp]

aug

[keen dome]

We're Sub rogues. /dance is right there haptics!

[leaden prairie]

ok well sin isnt doing less damage than aug lol

[granite river]

Aug is dead brother

[swift tinsel]

not me obv

[leaden prairie]

meta wise aug is better you can say that sure

[stone robin]

hello , new sub rogue question do i want to wait for my vanish when my second flag comes up?

[swift tinsel]

/sit makes you get crit

[keen dome]

Doesn't just being hit in the back do that too or does it have to be sitting down?

[swift tinsel]

iirc its sitting

[keen dome]

Huh, the more you know.

[copper linden]

I haven’t looked at raid timings yet too much, is it true that subs damage profile fits the raid better than sins?

[swift tinsel]

back attacks were always parry

[keen dome]

Ah, yeah

[granite river]

Only reason boomy better is motw

[swift tinsel]

so if you get sent to duel and you have nothing up just turn around and spam /sit so you die fast

[clever delta]

as trisckter in aoe

i strike bp

[keen dome]

Gotta do /dance then immedialy turn around and sit.

[clever delta]

not storm bp

or

[jaunty heath]

One storm after secret tech

For FW

[clever delta]

alright

[jaunty heath]

Strike - tech - storm - bp

[clever delta]

ty

[leaden prairie]

not really no

boomie also just does more damage in some keys

• the damage profile of boomie is mega op

you are able to hold your cooldowns forever

very good in mist for example

cause you can desync your cooldowns without losing anything

you can also cd first phase then cd second phase

you can also cd first pack

then second pack

and have it back for boss

idk if they do that

rn but ye

having 2 charges on your main cooldown is mega op

[granite river]

Damn zac yeah you right

I was also thinking 11.1 tbh

[dry plank]

We have 2 dances

Need x2 flag xD

[granite river]

Sub also lined up real nice for mots

[dry plank]

And sb

[steel zinc]

huh?

Patch?

[vale pine]

preoading possible

oh wait its ptr

[keen dome]

They're giving us new animations

100%

[twilit phoenix]

Killing Spree will have a new animation

Flash bang epilepsy bomb

your screen will cut to footage of 2012 ibiza raves

[swift tinsel]

inc full spreadsheet of fixes

[bleak night]

trust

for sure fixes

[keen dome]

believe

[swift tinsel]

(partial reversion of the nerf to 4% shadow damage from 4pc)

[keen dome]

Just pour positive thought into it: bug fixes, animations, POSION TOGGLE

[vale pine]

Killing spree rework waiting room

[swift tinsel]

giving Dreadblades back

[vale pine]

[keen dome]

[swift tinsel]

Make poison menu open vertically on horizontal bars again

Been opening horizontally for me entire ptr cycle

[keen dome]

Just RNG it

the orientation it opens is purely random

[swift tinsel]

delete and reroll for new GUID

[frozen lily]

Oh no, the plague has spread to #subtlety

[vale pine]

haha, i asked for a rework in beta ^^

i think killing spree is probably one of the top rogue spells in need of work

mostly because its such a core component of trickster for outlaw

[random hare]

speaking of hitboxes, 2nd boss darkcleft flame has the worst hitbox in wow history

[frozen lily]

Maybe 11.1.5

[leaden prairie]

ye

but first boss rookery feel worse

or second boss rookery

[frozen lily]

For now we can try trickster by playing sub

[vale pine]

absolutely

trickster subtlety is the best

[calm kernel]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[random hare]

xd theres no way no

u didnt play darkflame last week or 2 did u?

because hitbox got nerfed by like

[leaden prairie]

no but

[random hare]

70%

[leaden prairie]

i know

[random hare]

if not 90%

its literally 3 yards now

[leaden prairie]

but also you can just stay in meelee

[random hare]

u have to be under his ass

[leaden prairie]

like it doesnt matter

[random hare]

????????????????

[leaden prairie]

rookery you have aoes you have to dodge out of

[random hare]

u didnt try the boss

[leaden prairie]

and you always lose melee

[random hare]

u cant just say it doesnt matter without trying it

[leaden prairie]

bro

i did it like 2 days ago

i know xd

[random hare]

u never lose melee in rookery tho on 1st boss

ever

like only swirlies

on ground sometimes

[leaden prairie]

its too small

everytime you have the aoes lines

you have to go out of melee without going out of melee

then you have the aoes around players

which is the same

if you have 3 people in melee its gg