subtlety

[open vortex]

what's the loss if you never gambled and maintained 10 stacks throughout the whole fight, only pressing rupture outside of dance lol

[keen dome]

I've only been able to get a normal one so I'm going to exist in a blessed position of just getting a HoC

[lilac stag]

Tell me you haven’t played sub and realize just how little we do outside of your go without telling me.

[hardy snow]

then why tier provides the extra stack during dance then? i'd swap it for extra 2% shadow damage

[uneven scarab]

Think eleem said maybe like 3-4% worse?

[lilac stag]

We still need to generate stacks

[rocky wolf]

so the new tier sets have a bit of RNG to them are variences any higher than usual? i assume most likely not if they are tuned properly

[lilac stag]

like wtf

[clever delta]

and two shit trinkets being our second best option is cringe as fuck too

[lilac stag]

Are you really being this dense and wanting to die on “my evicerates” hill?

[clever delta]

jesus fuck actually mad

[hardy snow]

ok, now you're saying it. we still need to generate it. and that's still full control?

[open vortex]

more than i thought but not as bad i think

[lilac stag]

It’s a gamba tier. I can control its loss.

Others can’t

Rejoice

[swift tinsel]

Right, WW straight up loses its stacks once they hit 10

[lilac stag]

Or just play assa

[hardy snow]

oh, sin's talking a different story with 4% chance to lose stacks

[swift tinsel]

with zero chance of preserving them

[lilac stag]

you clearly don’t enjoy the spec.

[hardy snow]

and other specs have mechanism like losing but gaining something 10s

[vale pine]

panic?

[lilac stag]

And that’s ok

[swift tinsel]

Dave isn't for everyone

[bleak night]

if i just stopped playing things i dont enjoy then what would i complain about

that doesnt sound right

[swift tinsel]

true and actually

[clever delta]

neck options not so cool either

[tepid trellis]

dont ask me, you were the one who said that

[swift tinsel]

Can go crafted neck

if you really want

[tepid trellis]

i just told you we have control of not letting it drop

[alpine wraith]

yea crafted neck is safe

[hardy snow]

but you dont have the control of generating, and we need to generate it here or there. and the ultimate solution for not letting it drop becomes an endless rupt at the end of pull or at the beginning of a pull.
that's great, and you love this control, don't you?

[swift tinsel]

It's a tiny tradeoff for a large gain

[uneven scarab]

^

[hollow snow]

Bro just hit eviscerate ffs it's fine

[hardy snow]

i'm not arguing that part.

[hollow snow]

You do you

[swift tinsel]

having control of both generation and loss of stacks removes all of the gambling aspect of it

which is antithetical to design

and I would MUCH rather have control over the loss than the gaining of stacks

because you can play around that in a more meaningful way

[lilac stag]

yes

[hardy snow]

then i'd like to have control of generating it and lose it whenever it should.

[uneven scarab]

Then dont play sub

[swift tinsel]

that's fine, you can think that

[tepid trellis]

to me personally i dont really care, to me it just reminds me of old arcane mage playstyle which i dont mind at all, now can i agree with it being a dumb bandaid? Yeh but its not something im gonna lose any sleep for

[swift tinsel]

but you'd be in the minority

[uneven scarab]

because it doesnt work that way

[hollow snow]

Just play bm hunter then

Bind kill command to spacebar

[lilac stag]

BM the other 30% tierset, but with a much higher base spec dmg profile

[clever delta]

make me wonder why m+ build play rotten meanwhile st dont

[swift tinsel]

FW spread

[lilac stag]

for FW

[clever delta]

would make me thing that finality stronger in aoe

oo

[swift tinsel]

nah you need FW to enable BP

[lilac stag]

you need FW for BP

[clever delta]

very smart

[swift tinsel]

without the FW/SF boost to its damage isn't not as strong

[hardy snow]

i'd like to see 5 stacks gain every dance and lose it whenever they like after dance. tuning the numbers as well. so the game play proceed normally. i do rupt when rupt is applied. i do bp/evis when they are needed. simple.

[uneven scarab]

Just play unholy then

[swift tinsel]

^

that's literally unholy tier set

[uneven scarab]

They gain max stacks when the use cd’s

Yep

Cant tell you why it’s different for us but it is and its what we got

[hollow snow]

Dark transformation I think

[lilac stag]

i like watching netflix between cds

[hardy snow]

so they believe unholy deserve a solid control of gain due to they're relying on cd but sub dont'?

[hollow snow]

My guy bring it up with realz

[swift tinsel]

Its a different spec

[hollow snow]

Not us

[swift tinsel]

hence variety

[lilac stag]

you're quite funny thinking they look at sub for more then 10 minutes a ptr cycle

[swift tinsel]

if everything played exactly the same, whats the point

^

[clever delta]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

my guess is the tier set dev has zero clue how sub plays and realz has a slim chance of knowing the deeper bugs

it be what it be

[swift tinsel]

first part highly likely

[tepid trellis]

he mostlikely knows

[hardy snow]

if you already say we don't do damage out of dance anyway, then it means the gain from tier should come to the dance and cds.
and we dont generate solidly for that. instead we need to behave silly and perserve for next pull.
what would unholy think if they can only control not dropping stacks instead of solidly gainning them?

[lilac stag]

based on not knowing sectech issues when he first came on, it's 50/50

[tepid trellis]

but he cant just drop everything he is assigned to fix bugs that maybe others are assigned to fix the backlog on

[lilac stag]

ofc

havoc more important

[hollow snow]

He's on his DH arc tbh

[swift tinsel]

they're more purple than us

look at their healthbars

[hollow snow]

Tru

[tepid trellis]

at the end of the day he has superiors telling him what to focus on

[lilac stag]

but i joke

[swift tinsel]

[lilac stag]

we're not played, i wouldn't assign resources to us

i get it

[keen dome]

I would

Entire divison just to rogue

[swift tinsel]

I'll straight up venmo a rogue dev for attention

[uneven scarab]

It truly is very likely they just dont know how we play

[alpine wraith]

time to becone major shareholders of microsoft

[swift tinsel]

or have a roundtable

[valid flame]

Do you consider coup de grace (sp?) when thinking about when to hit shadow dance/symbols?

[alpine wraith]

hold my amphora

[uneven scarab]

^^ yooo what if all of us from sub take hold of a majority of the shares

[swift tinsel]

I feel this is at least partially true

[uneven scarab]

we can finally kill aug

also

[alpine wraith]

dont think we have the means

[swift tinsel]

need to seize the means

[alpine wraith]

unless we hook that arab prince

[uneven scarab]

We got zeross

[alpine wraith]

need some billion dollards

[uneven scarab]

Hes a prince

[alpine wraith]

i have around 2 or 3 million maybe

[uneven scarab]

can hook us up

[open vortex]

you just send the coupe first in the dance before the sectec

[uneven scarab]

Just gotta rob a bank

[keen dome]

We'd have a posion toggle in a heartbeat

[valid flame]

so if you have it you send it, if not you ST

[uneven scarab]

We’re sub rogues after all

[tepid trellis]

if fazed is up, yes

[open vortex]

ye, cause it gives flawless form stacks which gives more finisher dmg so you have bigger sectec dammy

[lilac stag]

Sub has a long history of finding the most krangled way of pulling out dps from the spec going against how it was likely intended.

[uneven scarab]

I fully believe it mostly is

[lilac stag]

and how it was intended rarely works due to spaghetti code

[swift tinsel]

It definitely comes across that there isn't a unified view of how sub should function on the development end

[tepid trellis]

well that also happens from our side as well

[swift tinsel]

so we're stuck with the krangle

true

[alpine wraith]

time to bring back sprint vanish

[swift tinsel]

burst of speed plz

[hardy snow]

not burst of speed again

[alpine wraith]

ok everyone HOL UP ptr update

cloak and dagger was sillier than burst of speed

or first shadowstrike

[uneven scarab]

I just want to be able to sprint across water still man

[open vortex]

i prefer luna snow over cloak and dagger

[bleak night]

BURST OF SPEED

bring it back

[lilac stag]

#subtlety message

[lilac stag]

I rather catlike comes back

[alpine wraith]

yea it was funny iwas doing a video and suddenly i saw below

[swift tinsel]

thats the fall dmg right

[uneven scarab]

Catlike was cool

[alpine wraith]

SERVER GOING DOWN in 7 mins

[uneven scarab]

Ya

[alpine wraith]

uh oh

[alpine wraith]

i died so many times in bfa to fall damage

[swift tinsel]

I'm parked at the dummy ready to get DN stack marks and watch them not get consumed

[lilac stag]

wreck fools flying in open world PvP

[swift tinsel]

and also send cb + sectechs for 2mil

[alpine wraith]

im going to play PoE now just hope they fix something

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[uneven scarab]

True its time to ascend to commander today

for me

[lilac stag]

Tier set fix. 10 stacks while supercharger active

zero stacks when not

[swift tinsel]

man thats some nice control there

[lilac stag]

R we dks now?

[swift tinsel]

lemme check my runic power

[vale pine]

new tier set bonus: please put in your credit card details to increase your proc chance

[lilac stag]

add social security if from US

[uneven scarab]

just need the three wacky numbers on the back

[swift tinsel]

rename tierset to Bobby Kotick's Personal Tuxedo

[timber epoch]

they already have ur ssn

[charred ivy]

epic upgrade : you don't lose stacks anymore instead double the amount when you would lose them

[swift tinsel]

Perma-stacks bug was actually a preview of Loot Box Drop

[vale pine]

haha you got an good idea

[lilac stag]

Not if I’m an illegal

[timber epoch]

dr phill will be seeing you shortly

[uneven scarab]

“If you own the Gilded Brutosaur your chances to gain stacks are doubled”

[vale pine]

add time gating to forge the tier set bonus rarety

[lilac stag]

Nah. I’m white.

[swift tinsel]

Buy the season pass to halve time gate

[vale pine]

"farm this content for 2 weeks to upgrade your tier set bonus, you can upgrade it 4 times, each time adding a 25% chance of the tier set interaction to work"

[swift tinsel]

omg the last part hahaha

[lilac stag]

what’s the gamba percent on it breaking further when upgrading it?

[swift tinsel]

depends on subscriber tier

ultra platinum subscribers have 100% chance to break other people's tier sets to make yours look better

[vale pine]

jokes aside lets hope for some bugfixes

[lilac stag]

the ring should have stole other peoples tier set stacks and not stats.

[keen dome]

Gave me a new trinket idea. It's a slot machine. You activate the trinket and like transmitter, it spawns something: a slot machine. You then have to go over to it, use it. It'll roll and if get a buff depending on the jackpot. It takes 5 seconds to roll the numbers. Jackpot is a massive buff. But you can also just roll nothing and get no buff.

[swift tinsel]

I'm spam-clicking Reconnect lol

[bleak night]

hey ive heard this one before

[swift tinsel]

we got some nice ones this cycle

IT'S BACK UP

[vale pine]

glad you read the sub chat at any point during the last ~8 years

[bleak night]

[alpine wraith]

hey they fixed the bugs with NS

and sepsis

[swift tinsel]

pogchamp

[vale pine]

oh right

sepsis

whats that?

sounds deadly

[alpine wraith]

[fallen crescent]

[charred ivy]

please not the sepsis again

[alpine wraith]

this one got more hate tho from people

[bleak night]

i cant believe out of all the covenant abilities sepsis is the last one standing

[alpine wraith]

I CANT HIT THE BLUE POINTS

[vale pine]

it isn't they removed it

flagellation is the one one standing

[swift tinsel]

SBS is around but not the same

full passive

[bleak night]

who still has flag

[swift tinsel]

...

[vale pine]

subtlety

[lilac stag]

…

[vale pine]

[swift tinsel]

kekw

[uneven scarab]

LMAOO

[bleak night]

why would anyone play that

[uneven scarab]

…….

[rugged elk]

New Rogue Question:
Due to clear the witness (Deathstalker Talent), do you Shuriken storm after every mark application in single target?

[bleak night]

im more justified by the day

[vale pine]

not sure why anyone would play the strongest talent point in the talent tree

[uneven scarab]

flag was always the best one

Except when it gave haste

[bleak night]

OH its purple

thats why i didnt see it

i havent played in a while ok

[random comet]

just make the macro and change the icon for comfort 😛

[uneven scarab]

Red icon was better fs

[bleak night]

i actually like this icon better ngl

[swift tinsel]

nvm sectech still doodoo bugged

[vale pine]

#subtlety message

^ i redesigned the icon by adding some color

[bleak night]

that does look pretty good

[swift tinsel]

coup gives snd now

[open vortex]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

https://gyazo.com/75280d13ec46c7eb57165c2db35c0f73

[tulip gorge]

Huge

[swift tinsel]

tier bugs seemingly still in

[kind bluff]

Which tier bug?

[alpine wraith]

sec tech krangle

[vale pine]

just fyi coup de grace for some unholy reasons (means spaghetti coding) does multiple hits and not one

[half comet]

Did tier set get changed for the tier set gameplay pin

[vale pine]

nope

[half comet]

I dont remember reading it is why im asking

[vale pine]

nothing changes

[swift tinsel]

coup still per-hit

no other bugfixes I've found so far besides snd thing

[vale pine]

season 2 is very mild in gameplay canges

it comes down to conserving your tier stacks for big burst

essentially all ther is to season 2

the rest is bussiness as usual

[swift tinsel]

nice lil qol change

went through most of the trickster bugs from eleem's sheet but didn't find any other fixes

same with tier and dn/marks

[sly shore]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tulip gorge]

apparently ptr is going down again

[vale pine]

👍

[vale pine]

rip

[swift tinsel]

the must have forgotten to put all the nimble flurry bugfixes in

[vale pine]

https://tenor.com/view/la-abeja-maya-bugs-clapping-gif-10907849

[swift tinsel]

idk if it not interacting with blades is a bug tho because its a separate spell from flurry'd spells

unless it did at one point and interaction was broken/removed

[mortal snow]

Good morning noble rogues, are you excited for the next patch? Have they announced the cowboy spec yet?

[swift tinsel]

new patch lookin pretty good for sub

I am excite

[heady sierra]

We pumping? 😄

[swift tinsel]

To the moon

[heady sierra]

Oh baby!

[swift tinsel]

then we chill

[heady sierra]

Can't wait to be chillin in space with the boys

[swift tinsel]

Hell yeah 🌚

[mortal snow]

I like sub more too, before I thought that sub could have better animations but I played DK Unholy for a while and I couldn't see anything on the floor with the defile, so I changed that idea in my head.

[heady sierra]

[uneven scarab]

Really looking forward to that first opening pull with 4 set

[swift tinsel]

dude same

wave hello to everyone from a mile at the top of the meter

[slate lantern]

20m dps

[swift tinsel]

kinda like now but more lol

[uneven scarab]

The entire screen can be clear and u wont see much still for sub

we dont really have any cool animations

Unfortunately

[swift tinsel]

I'm usually ~10ilvl below the raid group bc I never really do +10's but I wanna go for it this season

[slate lantern]

because we're stealthy obviously

[random comet]

I really like sub in raid but not really in keys, I feel like a freak

[swift tinsel]

its def a different beast in m+

[uneven scarab]

If u can get a tank friend and teach them your cd’s it’s brilliant

[swift tinsel]

^^

if they pull around your burst cooldowns its lovely

[random comet]

Yeah maybe it’s that

[uneven scarab]

It definitely is

If they pull big right after you use everything

Its awful

[random comet]

Been mostly pugging and find myself doing zdps half the time and to the moon the other half

[swift tinsel]

that's sub

lol

[uneven scarab]

Truuu

[random comet]

Yeah

[swift tinsel]

when you don't have cd's you just kinda chill and throw out ruptures

[random comet]

Which is fine if you know what to expect and can plan

[swift tinsel]

kidney here, kick there

[random comet]

But pugging landscape is…not it

[swift tinsel]

pugging this season was rough for sure

[random comet]

At least not in the keys I’m doing haha

Certainly a different vibe from my usual outlaw enjoyment

[swift tinsel]

Sub's kinda mysterious to a lot of people which doesn't help

people that know, know

and those that don't have zero clue what sub does lol

[random comet]

I last played it in DF S2 and 3 and it feels pretty different

But that was kinda BP spam

[swift tinsel]

there's a bit more nuance to it now, especially if you play trickster

well, DS too but miss me with that bs

[random comet]

DS is locked in when I play assass

[swift tinsel]

Deathstalker is pretty divisive for sub

[random comet]

So that’s enough of that

[swift tinsel]

some folks dig the playstyle, others think its way too slow and cumbersome

I personally think current trickster sub is one of the most fun iterations the spec has had

[lunar bluff]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-seal-sad-cry-meme-seal-gif-19608082

[random comet]

It’s nice, I like to play all 3 specs and each one having a different preferred hero tree feels like I can get a bit of everything

But I’ve definitely played the least of sub this season

[lunar bluff]

forced to play sub rogue

[bleak night]

https://tenor.com/view/its-over-its-genuinely-over-seal-sad-seal-breaking-news-gif-243396507301445550

[steel zinc]

@vale pine is there any s2 trinket list I can copy pls? (Wann sim on my own) ty

[swift tinsel]

in tc

#tc-research message

[vale pine]

#tc-research has one pinned

[steel zinc]

But that's all gear or? Ok will try it ty

[swift tinsel]

there's a trinket section

[vale pine]

someone earlier today reminded me to add the energy drink trinket from the new delve, so that one is missing but i added it to my local list

ye

[steel zinc]

Yeah I wanna sim not omega bis mythic stuff but everything from hc and delve champion to see what you really can get in early prog

[vale pine]

if you open the file, you see the list is human readable, i did design it that way

you can just replace item levels

ilevel=xxx is at the end of each line

[steel zinc]

Yup gonna do that

665 is hc right?

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

max hero track

[steel zinc]

And 652 is champion?

[vale pine]

hmm if that would be in the file too

[steel zinc]

Yeah and tbh that's the gear you will most likely kill the ensboss with

[vale pine]

delves = hero track possible

[steel zinc]

Yeah going to pc gonna sim in a min

[steel zinc]

Yes but rng dependent to much I guess

[woeful fulcrum]

Is the "tier vs. no tier" number % comparison based on S2 tier vs. 639 S1 tier, or equivalent ilvl S2 gear that isn't tier? Wondering at what points to replace 4 and 2 piece from S1

[molten citrus]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

the tier set % comparison is only the bonus, i enabled/dissabled each of the boni

so there is a bit of a item level diffrence too thats not considered

[molten citrus]

pretty sure the s2 tier is so strong you replace s1 tier at equal or greater ilvl pieces

[vale pine]

for sub yes

[molten citrus]

but i don't know the exact numbers for the comparisons

[vale pine]

for assassiantion its very close, we might run 2p2p

welll

[steel zinc]

even with the stealth buffs from yesterday?

[vale pine]

s2 sub 4 bonus is 30% dps

[molten citrus]

until a certain ilvl maybe

[vale pine]

yes

[woeful fulcrum]

Makes sense, thanks for the clarification

[molten citrus]

but 2p2p won't be bis for assa, at least going off whispyr's newer numbers

[alpine wraith]

sub is full on lfr mode for tier

no remorse

speedrun it

[molten citrus]

yeah

[uneven scarab]

Yeah literally need it asap

[vale pine]

oh interessting, i can re-run my sims on assa tomorrow

[vale pine]

^ thats combined with 2p

but just shows how absurdly strong the bonus is

[bleak night]

maybe a dumb question, but is backstab in dance not a thing anymore

[vale pine]

basically the new 4p is at minimum twice as good as the old one

[uneven scarab]

its not

we dont play around dm stacks

[vale pine]

no, we dropped that with tww

[bleak night]

shows how long its been since i played sub

ok ty

[molten citrus]

so assa might run 2p2p until a certain ilvl breakpoint, no idea personally just happened to see that earlier

[vale pine]

nice

i did not re-run it

so fair

(again, can do tomorrow or so)

[swift tinsel]

no changes with build that just dropped a bit ago

[bleak night]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[swift tinsel]

must be saving tier fixes for monday

jk jk

maybe

[bleak night]

so based on that command am i right in thinking this graphic is out of date, and to move that cb to the second sec tec in opener?

[swift tinsel]

eh, for the general playerbase its kinda fine

people that wanna optimize more can go for 2nd cb tech

[bleak night]

sure, but i do intend to get back into mythic raiding this tier so i'd prefer to learn the better optimizations

[swift tinsel]

the general player base never sees mythic so its not necessarily intended for you

[lilac stag]

First step. Learn what cds we have.

[bleak night]

IT WAS PURPLE

i cant be blamed

i tried to do my homework

[molten citrus]

might be some more unannounced changes

[lilac stag]

It’s not purple never was.

[tulip gorge]

do you CB only for that 2nd dance in flag?

[swift tinsel]

could be, I've just been going through eleems sheet and checking for fixes

[steel zinc]

Wdym without tier? So when the patch goes live with current gear we just afk before our burst window?

[molten citrus]

unless u were talking about sub bug specifically

[swift tinsel]

only one from both builds today has been coup now giving slice and dice duration

yeah

[molten citrus]

ah i gotchu

[bleak night]

ok let me rephrase the question then, since i didnt mean to say the graphic is wrong

is it more optimal to move that cb to second sec tec

[swift tinsel]

I like to check for stealthfixes since we literally never get notes on the ones they've fixed

[lilac stag]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[swift tinsel]

optimal, yeah

[uneven scarab]

Yes its a minor gain

[swift tinsel]

but its a .6% optimization iirc

[bleak night]

ive done worse for less

[random comet]

I’ve done worse for nothing

[left ledge]

Yeah I cba for that

I’m macroing them

[swift tinsel]

but again, for the vast majority of sub players macroing them is fine

[solar charm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

which is what wowhead is more geared towards

[bleak night]

yeah thats fine

[molten citrus]

he's just making an example of how slow Sub is in between burst windows. not saying that you should follow the new rotation without the new tier set.

[lilac stag]

Waiting for it to be higher than .6 with new tier

[molten citrus]

we do not do the new rotation until we have the new 4 set

[bleak night]

i was just confused a bit by the dissonance between the command and the graphic, but knowing the reason behind it is good enough

[swift tinsel]

ah, yeah the command is more for the folks seeking out those optimizations

[steel zinc]

ok that pin was just confusing me a bit.

[molten citrus]

yeah he's just pointing out that sub is already very slow during that time before Flag, so swapping 3-4 eviscerates for ruptures really doesn't feel that bad. just pointing it out because a lot of people have been saying "we're going to spam rupture?! LUL"

[steel zinc]

ah ok. Yeah I mean idk sub is just a pure cd spec thats the fun stuff.

ty for clearfiying ❤️

[vale pine]

thats a small optimization

you essentially can do so for a bit of dps gain

but if you do so, you need to not bind secret with cold blood

[bleak night]

yeah makes sense

[vale pine]

so mostly depends on how far you min/max

and how much comfort you want to trade off

[left ledge]

I was already spamming ruptures

One step ahead of the game kinda brain rot

[vale pine]

as mentioned earlier, i did some changes for the guide for 11.1 and will probably still review it in the comming days

which goes life next week

[swift tinsel]

you can realistically keep the macro but you need to have a naked sectech bind

and only use the macro for 2nd

[bleak night]

will have to see how it feels when im practicing and decide then

or just use the macro until im comfortable with sub again then try for more optimization

anyway thanks for help

[lilac stag]

!burst

[wicked jolt]

During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends, despite Secret Technique not being ready.
Secret Technique will come up during the second dance, and you want to make sure that it will be supercharged. To do this hold onto Symbols of Death and use it when Secret Technique
has 10s or less left of its cooldown.
This is why a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.

[ember hound]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[shell willow]

Just have two secret tech. I Have naked bound to shift2 and sec/cb bound to shift3

[swift tinsel]

R & Shift+R

[tulip gorge]

4 & Ctrl + 4

[bleak night]

ngl

i dont use shift as a modifier key for anything i press semi often

feels weird to press

[deep adder]

what is going to be our off piece in s2

[lilac stag]

Hands

[swift tinsel]

hands

[deep adder]

ty

[lilac stag]

But you’re taking 4p however you can get it

[fallow nimbus]

it was so easy in the end. the pvp guys did it all along. the key word is fire-eater's vial. toy offgcd with a cd of 10 secs
#showtooltip Secret Technique /castsequence reset=20 Fire-Eater's Vial,Cold Blood /cast Secret Technique

[leaden prairie]

\

[deep adder]

++

[swift tinsel]

yeah its way too strong to be picky until you have the option to swap pieces

[slate lantern]

what modifier do you use

[molten citrus]

...?

[lilac stag]

New command

[bleak night]

alt mainly

i do have shift bound for some but i rarely use them

[molten citrus]

but why'd you ping me with it

[lilac stag]

You’re informative

[molten citrus]

ic

[lilac stag]

[molten citrus]

[bleak night]

[molten citrus]

i really hope they don't take the 4set out back

it's going to be so sick in pvp even with the -50% pvp modifier

[tranquil garden]

I've never had luck with cast sequence macros, for some reason the reset doesn't always trigger right for me. Maybe user error but I've just had them be very unreliable.

[swift tinsel]

as long as the 4pc is above like 3-4% it'll still be solid

[tranquil garden]

By doesn't always trigger right, I mean it seems to over trigger sometimes

[swift tinsel]

instead of 6%

Coping hard

[thin lion]

did they nerf the tier set?

[swift tinsel]

not yet

but likely

[molten citrus]

well in pvp that'd be 1-2% and would probably not be used in favor of stacking more mastery

[thin lion]

because 33% dmg imporvement seems silly? 😄

[lilac stag]

nerf tier, no base adjustments except buffing BP.

[swift tinsel]

or they buff SF

40% but it breaks more

[uneven scarab]

im gonna take you out back if u say that anymore

i cant handle it

[swift tinsel]

Find Weakness now 50% instead of 30%

[molten citrus]

lets just never cast eviscerate again

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-excited-groove-moves-gif-16779278

[swift tinsel]

causes clones to give you the finger instead ofdoing damage

[molten citrus]

replace eviscerate with powder on your bars

[swift tinsel]

I want literally zero difference between my st and aoe rotation

[lilac stag]

At that point you’re casting envenom

[uneven scarab]

Hey atleast we’d basically have acro back

[swift tinsel]

lmao

stop

[uneven scarab]

with the range on bp

[molten citrus]

it's actually wild that BP is more prio than evis at a point

[swift tinsel]

"Rogues aren't casting BP enough, lets buff it so its their only finisher in all scenarios"

"Rogues aren't casting Eviscerate enough, lets buff it so that BP is their only finisher in all scenarios"

[lilac stag]

Each hit of BP now removes a stack of the tier set

[uneven scarab]

Soon enough we’ll be back to DM maxxing with BP

[swift tinsel]

and playing around Tornado

barfbarfbarf

[molten citrus]

luckily arena is only 3 targets so it's still not even on our action bars 🥲

[swift tinsel]

BP now quadrouble dips on tier set

if you press evisc or rupture it casts BP instead

[uneven scarab]

Just give us crackshot from outlaw

Casts a bp at half effectiveness whenever u press evisc

[swift tinsel]

we take their toys already, why not lol

give UHUH but its Dance instead of AR

[thin lion]

so is it assa again which is coming out ahead in season 2?

[swift tinsel]

Sod suspends dance duration

[slate lantern]

brother we are in season 1 rn

[uneven scarab]

🔮

[slate lantern]

how can we know

[swift tinsel]

inev gives 5sec per builder

[lilac stag]

Arms warrior. BM Hunter.

[swift tinsel]

Havoc DH

[slate lantern]

Fire mage

[tropic nimbus]

Reroll reroll

[slate lantern]

Chase that carrot, its your class thats holding you back

You'll have fun in the video game then

[random hare]

@leaden prairie

how far behind does HO sim on PTR?

i think HO might be back to where it was in s2 DF

where it undersims compared to KIr

KIR

[slate lantern]

@random hare #outlaw

[lilac stag]

Rogue is right above prot warrior sims. Great place to be.

[uneven scarab]

[leaden prairie]

wrong channel my guy

[uneven scarab]

LMFAO

[leaden prairie]

same thing as s1 tho

[uneven scarab]

bro zeross ur a goat

[random hare]

fixed

[uneven scarab]

[slate lantern]

Oh no zeross od'd on red bull 🚑

[fallow nimbus]

one button sectec macro done and tested, when you don't spam it works good

[swift tinsel]

what'd you macro together?

[lilac stag]

Imagine not spamming

[bleak night]

thats a dealbreaker

if i dont press the key 20 times during the gcd it doesnt do as much damage

[swift tinsel]

same with ADADADADADAD

[fallow nimbus]

yeah but i rather have 1 key i don't spam than to separate a thing that should be baseline when activating dance

until blizz nerfs fire eater's vial

also purple smoke fits(sometimes it's green)

other option would be to switch around hotkeys i played with for too long

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, purple smoke

[uneven scarab]

Fire eaters vial is cool ive been macroing it into my cooldowns forever

[jade urchin]

is there a minimal amount of stacks to keep or is it rupture regardless of stacks

[swift tinsel]

regardless

[fallow nimbus]

i totaly forgot about it but it can be a wonderful replacement spell in castsequences

low cd and offgcd

[vale pine]

reguardless

oh haptic was faster

👴

[swift tinsel]

I keep forgetting to reply directly to people lol

[vale pine]

I currently do devil's work

[jade urchin]

oh thats very streamlined then

thats good i think

[swift tinsel]

half the time I try to click the reply button but chat is moving and I tag the wrong person lol

[jade urchin]

no weakaura tracking for that

[fallow nimbus]

1 click for cb less sectec, spam for cb. so you can even cb in first dance if you play some low lvl m+ and mobs die before you reach 2nd dance or something

[vale pine]

trying to find out what SEO "optimization" got added to the guides

so i can add some extra paragraphs nobody reads

[lilac stag]

Porn tags

[jade urchin]

i will for sure read them tho :P

[tulip gorge]

btw what is the difference in dps between doing the rupture thing vs just using eviscerate?

[swift tinsel]

1%

in favor of rupture <25

but it also depends on if there are damage amp phases coming up

[tulip gorge]

well that's not a big deal if you screw up

[fallow nimbus]

i set the reset to 15, but if we ever fire sectec every 15 sec then we have other problems. 10 works to but casts more toys

[swift tinsel]

which you would absolutely want to preserve stacks for

[upper narwhal]

1% on average, remember tho if you gamble and hit it big your dps goes up!

[swift tinsel]

or in m+ if a pack is winding down

you'd wanna perserve for next pack

[lilac stag]

Gamba on 2 stacks vs 10. That’s a bigger swing

[vale pine]

haha, nice of you

[lilac stag]

Fuu let me know if you want a proof reader

[viral phoenix]

question, why are we going RS on single target? Just better than any other option like TFD?

[swift tinsel]

It's a dps gain and doesn't int cp refunds anymore

[lilac stag]

It does more dmg than TFD in raid encounters

[fallow nimbus]

#showtooltip Secret Technique /castsequence reset=15 Fire-Eater's Vial,Cold Blood /cast Secret Technique
reset=10-20 what ever feels best for you, need the toy Fire Eater's Vial
https://www.wowhead.com/item=122129/fire-eaters-vial#

[swift tinsel]

TFD probably wouldn't be that bad if you swap WM for it

even in ST

[random hare]

@vale pine

[swift tinsel]

idr what the % diff is

[random hare]

fuu i was gonna ask a dumb question

but i noticed of how dumb it was so i wont bother

i take it back completely

un@fuu

well

[viral phoenix]

on retail rn tfd is equal or slightly better than WM on 3 minute or less st encounters right?

[lilac stag]

It’s used to be 3 min fight timer or less it was better. Not sure now if it’s still there.

[swift tinsel]

Imma sim it quick lol

bc I'm curious now

on 3/5 min fights

[lilac stag]

Do 2, 3, 5

[swift tinsel]

Ye

[vale pine]

thanks, but i can't share wowhead pages outside of wowhead team members due to how system is set up

[lilac stag]

No worries. I wasn’t sure if they had a non live post

[vale pine]

basically, you would not be able to read links i would send you

[lilac stag]

I’ll try to check Monday

[random comet]

having so many CD buttons badly bound was shooting myself in the foot turns out

rearranged binds to make more sense and sub feels way better right away

we like it

[swift tinsel]

2, 3, 5

[lilac stag]

dB?

[swift tinsel]

dark brew, its from the og sim eleem sent me

[lilac stag]

RS was the check

[swift tinsel]

forgot to remove it

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Or is the name just krangled

[swift tinsel]

?

[lilac stag]

Testing RS vs TfD

[swift tinsel]

Oh I was testing WM or TFD

[vale pine]

not sure if koji already added the tfd tech

[swift tinsel]

I'll run RS vs TFD quick

[vale pine]

we asked him to implement something to evaluate it better

[swift tinsel]

TFD and RS are effectively equal until 5min where RS wins by .4%

like 1k diff at 2min and 500 diff at 3min in favor of TFD

[uneven scarab]

That’s kinda insane

Rs kinda poopy

[swift tinsel]

Yeah could use some love

(or rework rupture to be interesting)

[keen dome]

SecTec spreads rupture

bam

[swift tinsel]

or detonates it

[uneven scarab]

I would really like to see some synergy with it somewhere

oooh

[swift tinsel]

I've always been a fan of primer-detonator effects like Anthem

[uneven scarab]

Should be like the stacking wither thing that locks have rn

sectech adds a stack to rupture/increases its damage or tick rate or somethint

[swift tinsel]

is that the stacking-collapsing dot mechanic?

[uneven scarab]

yeah

[swift tinsel]

Having it get ramping/stacking damage per finisher that hits it would be kinda sick

if balanced properly

"finishers above 5cp"

so we don't send 1cp bp's

[keen dome]

i'm onboard. this is a good idea

Setting up ruptures on pull and then BLAM

[uneven scarab]

Detonating it would be sick though

yeah

[swift tinsel]

right, would be super satisfying

change it to a little bomb

and bp amps the bomb or sets it off

[keen dome]

Yeah

[swift tinsel]

that way its not too derivative of wildfire bomb

even tho they lost Infusion

[keen dome]

Change rutpure to something like Void Impale or something. We shove a void essence into the enemy

then SecTec detonates it

[swift tinsel]

Then its not just a maintenance dot that we literally don't care about

BP adds stacks, sectech detonates

some mix of something like that

we're a finisher spec, having our finishers interact would be awesome fantasy

I'd be all-in so hard if they did

if it's in cool ways

[keen dome]

I'm not sure how it'd work in raid, but having it basically be like: more combies spent = more stacks. SecTec detonates. So you'd set up stuff for explosions during amp

[uneven scarab]

Yeah im just still surprised to this day rupture has literally 0 synergies

[bleak night]

any excuse to have more of the void themed vfx is a win to me

[keen dome]

I've been working on an Etheral profile and I realized today that purple ethereal = void ethereal haha

[swift tinsel]

I like the idea of cp's spent adds stacks for sure so ST doesn't lose out entirely

[young path]

Just curious, but is TFD being accounted for as always available or partially available in the dungeon slice sims?

(It currently sims much lower than it should from my experience)

[lilac stag]

Dslice is more for gearing options

[uneven scarab]

Yeah tbh im not sure how its even setup for dslice

[tepid trellis]

last i checked its not implemented good in sims

[uneven scarab]

I imagine its just set a certain number of procs over the course of the sim

[tepid trellis]

but its something thats beeing worked on getting added for dslice

[swift tinsel]

I can imagine it'd be a bit of a mess to implement

[lilac stag]

Dslice just looks to get stealth.

[uneven scarab]

Yeah for sure it would

[vale pine]

^ as stealthi mentioned, we will get a option to decide how regular we can trigger it

sooner or later

^^

[swift tinsel]

dang now I'm gonna be thinking of fun finisher interactions at work all night lol

such a fun design space to explore

[keen dome]

Let us put Kyveza lines on enemies

[swift tinsel]

helllll yeah

I wouldn't hate a shadow-themed Blade Rush

like her dash

or strike teleport is a blade-rush

so you can position for better dam

[keen dome]

Another idea: Ethereal Blade. Wehn an enemy has (rupture or w/e) and you use a finisher, it causes an ethereal shadow to strike them for x. Finishers on finshers

ethereals in etherals

[swift tinsel]

I'm on board

[young path]

Not sure if you have tried the Macabre and Unseen Blade stacked tornado BP spam for the last couple seconds using TFD, but it goes giga big on live

[swift tinsel]

I hate tornado

so no lol

[worthy relic]

sounds like nightblade with extra steps

[uneven scarab]

I can see the vision

But ya tornado L

[young path]

Might change your mind, just sayn XD

[keen dome]

I have a way to make tornado worse, but cooler.

Void Cyclone: Summon a whirling vortex of the void on a targetted ground marker. Which is just a static placeable shuriken storm but it LOOKS COOl

[swift tinsel]

nothing could make me change my mind about tornado unless its a full rework that is nothing like current tornado

[lilac stag]

Tornado is useless

[steel zinc]

omega ideas bro (no meme) I have an idea fixing the list of bugs the spec has been dealing now forever

[swift tinsel]

like they've been working on all ptr

[keen dome]

We just got two bug fixes!!!

[fallow nimbus]

using tornado mid dance is a gcd loss

[keen dome]

You want more?!

[lilac stag]

Delete the spec. Bugs go away.

[swift tinsel]

up to 7 bugfixes

so far

[young path]

Absolutely is but also worth it, trust

[steel zinc]

wdym which ones? The tier is still broken

[lilac stag]

It’s not. Cool story.

[swift tinsel]

yeah but it could be more broken

[uneven scarab]

If they fix the 4pc shadow amp and change nothing else

We are absolutely locked in

[swift tinsel]

Agreed

[uneven scarab]

For gigablasting

[keen dome]

RS and uh the other one. But yeah, realtalk I agree with you. Bugifxes first

[swift tinsel]

that's literally the only bugfix I care about lol

tier set or spec-wide

[uneven scarab]

Yeah its also arguably the worst bug and its the newest

[young path]

I’d love to run double rogue keys with a few of u, lemme know

[steel zinc]

yeah they fixed stuff on ptr just the core mechanic of the tier is not working.

[swift tinsel]

Nimble works with fazed, RS fix, Sectech benefits from blades, coup now gives SnD duration

plus a few others

[lilac stag]

Maybe tier getting deleted.

Maybe spec getting deleted.

🔮

[empty oyster]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen dome]

They can't delete Sub because if they do how am I meant to annoy people in /trade by saying it's the best rogue spec?

[lilac stag]

Best rogue spec RIP

Next issue?

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-gif-9546693964669088570

[lilac stag]

Just need Dave’s face

[uneven scarab]

[swift tinsel]

gimme a sec

[keen dome]

10/10

[swift tinsel]

imma see if I can make it bigger

There that's a little better

[timber walrus]

sub doesnt use storm in dance windows, even on 8+ targets, this is what i know. But what about window without dance? Backstab>storm still, even on multi?

[vale pine]

you use storm once in dance, it is a small optimization

[timber walrus]

ye, for danse stack

[vale pine]

yep

[swift tinsel]

well, with rotten to spread find weakness too

[vale pine]

without dance, you always storm

well

unless you have no flawless form

[swift tinsel]

true

[vale pine]

then you might throw in one or two backstabs

to get it back up

if that makes sense

[timber walrus]

so, with flawless, backstab will do more dmg because of nimble flurry than storm

[flint sundial]

No, but you need to bs to get form back. Storm is still cp generator

[molten citrus]

you backstab once or twice to get flawless form back up

storm main builder outside of dance

[timber walrus]

ok, i forgot to read unseen blade carefuly

outlaw has only 1 hero talent tree 😄

[lilac stag]

Each rogue spec only has one hero talent tree

[limber folio]

just so i understand the 2+4piece, is it 2 piece from palace and 4 from undermine?

or the other way

[random comet]

wha

[limber folio]

the pin

[random comet]

no, means the value of the 2pce bonus + the 4pce bonus

[vale pine]

you can't mix sets

[limber folio]

aha

[vale pine]

there are only 5 tier set slots

so you can only have one set at the time

[limber folio]

yeye

[vale pine]

if you look at my sheet you will see 2p + 4p

because people got very confused when i only had one of them mentioned

[limber folio]

which tier was it that you could run 2p+4p tho

was it legion

[vale pine]

because "4p" for many could mean "only the 4 set bonus"

while logically you would know you can't have 4p without 2p

but having this format is a lot easier to understand

[limber folio]

aight

[random comet]

i think legion had 6 tier slots? maybe 8?

[limber folio]

6 i thought

you had boots?

[hazy breach]

Yes they made it 6 because of legendaries

[limber folio]

or idk which other piece

[vale pine]

yes legion had 6 slots

[hazy breach]

It was cloak

[limber folio]

ah ye cloak

forgor

[random comet]

ah right, yes, if your 2 legos were in tier slots it would have made life a bit tough

[swift tinsel]

@hazy breach got another bugfix for the sheet

[vale pine]

we had 2p + 2p + 4p in legion too

[vale pine]

what got fixed?

[swift tinsel]

coup granting snd duration now

[vale pine]

with double ring legendary

[hazy breach]

Only duration

Or does it give it too

[swift tinsel]

gives it

[hazy breach]

[vale pine]

nice

[swift tinsel]

from no buff to buff

[vale pine]

[steel zinc]

WoW insane

[swift tinsel]

we're so back

[steel zinc]

imagine all bug fixed and tier still not working 😄

id rather they fix the tier

[random comet]

isn't tier like...not quite BUGGED but just clearly being used in a way that wasn't predicted?

[open vortex]

is it a gain to pot in your second set of cds

since you should have more tier set stacks

or kinda w/e

[hazy breach]

it was pretty neutral when i checked in simc

Obv assuming you dont lose a cast

Since sim always has BL on first

[open vortex]

ye

gotcha ty

[hazy breach]

And yeah we dont benefit that much from BL as other classes do, but its still more damage

[swift tinsel]

blue bar is snd

[random comet]

yes i mean just as a clarification since people are still saying sub set is "bugged"

[jaunty heath]

I mean if it’s intended that secret tech hits sometimes don’t work with the 4p then someone should get fired

[vale pine]

it is likely not intended

like many things

the beauty tho is, blizz can decide whats intended and not

[keen dome]

I like those combies

[vale pine]

because only they know what their design idea is

[swift tinsel]

thanks! customized them myself

[vale pine]

i noticed this when playing other games

and having devs state "people often don't see bugs, but when i watch a stream i see a lot of them"

[swift tinsel]

red rings are 1-7 ShT and a second set of gold rings is 8-14 so I know a reset is coming in sod

[vale pine]

but these bugs often are things you can't know without knowing the intention of a interaction

[swift tinsel]

also have the backgrounds set to turn blue with lower alpha for supercharged cp's

[vale pine]

so its not a bug for the player

but for the dev

[swift tinsel]

donuts

[vale pine]

looks fancy

but i don't like the blur

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, I'd rather they be more defined circles

that's one of the fixes I'd like to make to it

[vale pine]

i like my weakaura set atm

tho i think i need some tweaks if i have time

[swift tinsel]

my ptr one is a bit more frankestein-y

I usually spend the weekend before patch drop (this weekend) doing updates for the new tier

I do like the color diff for the corresponding ShT stacks so I can tell at a very quick glance if I'm likely to get a refund

[pliant topaz]

my ui > your ui

[swift tinsel]

we are not the same

[pliant topaz]

i remember when stealthi used a bunch of Zed abilities in his UI

[swift tinsel]

Oh yeah thats right lol

[pliant topaz]

i thiknk he used deathmark for sectech

maybe contempt for the weak evis? cant remember

[lilac stag]

I just turned every WA into Pedro

Sectech is Rose

https://tenor.com/view/mapache-pedro-gif-7206648027763736533

[pliant topaz]

hoooly

you might have the best ui then

https://tenor.com/view/apt-blackpink-rose-apt-rose-mak-rose-rosé-gif-17440988294150416254

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/apt-rosé-blackpink-bruno-mars-gif-1539050173426684783

[pliant topaz]

okat but recently newjeans going craaaaaazy frfr

might need new memes

[lilac stag]

I’m concerned for rose’s weight loss

[vale pine]

i could make you a league themed wow ui

[pliant topaz]

sounds tempting, but dont think its enough to bring me back

[teal prawn]

Shilling for riot in my wow chat. SMH my head

[pliant topaz]

okay but like, i dont have anything positive to say about wow so...

[hazy breach]

Gallywix music is pretty good no?

Some good 20s gangster vibes going on there

[keen dome]

Jazz tier best tier

[pliant topaz]

havent heard it, but wow music is probably the best part yeah ill give you that

[keen dome]

Undermine in general has a very different music style and it's real good.

[hazy breach]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5gntV49y54

Sax goes hard at like 50s

[pliant topaz]

thanks for the link, ill check it out after work!

[keen dome]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KXTR8yz5Ls Is also worth a listen

[hidden oar]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[graceful perch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[proper latch]

There is no proper way to track Unseen Blade reset, right?

[pliant topaz]

nope

[terse dirge]

any reason why im getting shuriken storm casted in my opener for my single target sim? using basic deathstalker raid talents.

[proper latch]

Clear the Witness talent maybe

[terse dirge]

ah your right, is that actually a gain tho? i dont see that many ppl doing that on logs.

[molten citrus]

what are your talents in the sim

if you're talented into premed it def shouldn't be doing that after vanish, even without premed that seems sus though

[molten citrus]

link sim?

[hazy breach]

Its for clear the witnesses yes, it doesnt matter if you use it or a strike

[molten citrus]

i'm fried

[hazy breach]

Premed still works on other builders

[molten citrus]

yeah

[hazy breach]

Its more a case of it doesnt matter in the sim

For results

So we didnt bother adding 2 conditions to the apl and make it more complicated just to "fix it"

[proper latch]

Inability to properly track Unseen Blade is driving me insane

[hazy breach]

Why

[proper latch]

Probably should not use WA that tries to predict reset

Because for some reason I always try to enter SD window with 3 stacks so I can use Supercharger on giga Evis

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter if you supercharge the coup or a regular eviscerate

The combo points scale linearly

[proper latch]

But mah cdr and dmg

[wintry vapor]

Evening guys, sub seems to be best rogue spec for upcoming season? Appreciated 🙏

[hazy breach]

Like say evis is doing 100 damage per combo point. Coup does 1200 damage, 1500 with supercharger so it gets 300 extra.
A regular eviscerate does 700 and then 1000 with supercharger, so it gets 300 extra

[proper latch]

Also I've been watching your vods Eleem and sometimes you use CB for Coup

[molten citrus]

you get the same amount of CDR regardless, no?

[proper latch]

Maybe just a mistake idk

[minor aurora]

What are the main differences between deathstalker and trickster? Unsure what tree to pick..

[hazy breach]

Ye because i forgot to use it on sectech 💀

[proper latch]

You don't have separate hotkeys for macroed SecTec ana naked SecTec?

[hazy breach]

Well if i press the naked sectech when im supposed to press the cb one

It doesnt matter how its done

[molten citrus]

there's really no way of knowing, every spec will be viable for the greater majority of content

[proper latch]

It's 12 cp vs 15 cp

[hazy breach]

But those keys are from a while ago, ive gotten more used to the cb stuff now

No

You get +3 cdr from supercharger either way

It doesnt matter if you use them on a regular evis or a coup

[molten citrus]

where you spend the supercharger points and the coup points does not matter, it ends up being the same CDR

[hazy breach]

You get the same amount of damage and cdr regardless

[proper latch]

Oh...

[hazy breach]

Like 7+3 and 12 is the same as 7 and 12+3

[proper latch]

That makes my life easier, ty

[hazy breach]

Its 22 either way

[proper latch]

Also if SB works on SecTec in 11.1 should we just press SD + SoD + SB?

[hazy breach]

No, the main reason you delay is to use premed

[wheat elk]

aside from the new tier set playstyle and all, is the season 1 guide in wowhead viable still?

[hazy breach]

yes

[wheat elk]

ty

[molten citrus]

What about deathstalker?

Or do both have a delay between dance/sod

[hazy breach]

Huh

I was mostly talking about the blades

for the others

!burst

[wicked jolt]

During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends, despite Secret Technique not being ready.
Secret Technique will come up during the second dance, and you want to make sure that it will be supercharged. To do this hold onto Symbols of Death and use it when Secret Technique
has 10s or less left of its cooldown.
This is why a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.

[hazy breach]

Obviously you could just macro it if you want, but its not ideal

[honest saddle]

I just want to confirm what I think is optimal.
I have two keybinds for sec tech. One is with CB and one is without.

On opener and during each flag window, I use my non CB on my first press, and on my second I press my CB Sec Tech macro. I know this is optimal.

It has occured to me that since shadow blades is supposed to be used after the first secret tech lands, and since I use a seperate CB for this only during flag window that I can just macro blades to this key.

Does anyone see an issue with this?

[molten citrus]

I didn’t mean macroing, just the CD usage in the opener

Like is moving blades up to get the first Tech in it worth or nah

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter

As long as its after youve used premed

The phys sectech hit does about the same as an eviscerate does anyway

[molten citrus]

Was just curious

[sudden bison]

can i swap out shurken tornado for something else? if so what

[hazy breach]

Yes you dont need to run nado

[lunar bluff]

Me when there’s no skyfury in the group 😦

[hazy breach]

Idk what youve got, but prob the first dance

[hazy breach]

Ye sad times

[lunar bluff]

Me when I forgot to rupture instead of eviscerate (the mob had 10% hp remaining)

[sudden bison]

i was looking at Veiltouched for the extra damage. but u think The Last Dance is the move?

[hazy breach]

Well you should already have veiltouched, otherwise you cant path to the stuff below there

[sudden bison]

oh lol

i dont even have the right build

AWK

[bleak night]

its ok

i didnt know sub had flag still

we all make mistakes

[sudden bison]

i miss the time when finality/dark brew was a viable build

[hazy breach]

Rn it still is for deathstalker on aoe

And its fine next patch for either, sims very slightly below standard build on ST

[sudden bison]

what about m+

for deathstalker u gotta keep prio-ing 1 mob right?

[honest saddle]

yes if you dont you wont get stacks

and stacks = big dam

when you finish at max combo points with darkest night

[molten citrus]

You don’t use darkest night in aoe

[honest saddle]

he still needs to know that it exists for bosses

[molten citrus]

Ofc

[honest saddle]

and it still depends on the pack size

or is it just bp at 2

[hazy breach]

At 5 or more you dont use darkest night during dance

[sudden bison]

i aint trying to play a build that has me needing to prio something

that was absolute cancer on ol with bte. dont want to relive that nightmare

for m+

[honest saddle]

I cant seem to find the 3.5% ST the pinned comment is showing on sub on mimiron for trickster. Maybe it doesnt show up until max max gear? I am simming use bis ptr gear which is like 676ilvl

[hazy breach]

Enchant Weapon - Authority of the Depths damage dealt per stack increased by 74% at Quality 1. Damage dealt per stack increased by 48% at Quality 2 and 3. This does not apply in PvP combat.

Wtf is this

Siponing Stilleto damaging effect to enemies increased by 7%.

[honest saddle]

what a strange choice

[alpine wraith]

da fuck

[hazy breach]

[alpine wraith]

i have like 400 of those enchants ready