So im still trying the 3 specs to see which one is fun to play
#subtlety
signal tangle
signal tangle
Idk, Assa seems to be the least enjoyable so far
tepid trellis
Assa can be quite dull
vale pine
you got a mythic transmitter or still heroic one?
tepid trellis
its a comfy spec, but very boring
tepid trellis
you got a mythic transmitter or still heroic one?
ive got mythic since first kill
oblique grove
I think sub is the most fun until the breakpoint of resets from outlaw
vale pine
oh wow nice
tepid trellis
got HC week 3 of the tier
oblique grove
Sometimes 12 in a row is 12 in a row
signal tangle
Outlaw was super fun when I played it back in shadowlands but I'm sure the spec changed a lot
tepid trellis
outlaw is the one spec i will never touch
signal tangle
So far I just hope assa is gonna suck S2
tepid trellis
unless i absolutely have to
lilac stag
did you meghar yet?
oblique burrow
So far I just hope assa is gonna suck S2
Why? đŚ
signal tangle
unless i **absolutely** have to
What makes Sub so much fun according to you ? Compared to other rogue spec at least
signal tangle
Why? đŚ
Cause it seems boring so if the other two specs sucks and Assa is good, I'll most likely have to play assa
hazy breach
objective correct answer
Objective as hell 
lilac stag
loves spreadsheet gaming.
oblique grove
I like frequent peak and valleys
tepid trellis
idm spreadsheet gaming
oblique grove
Ie shadow dance
tepid trellis
but im also the one that makes em
lilac stag
I like figuring shit out
lilac stag
fits project management brain waves
tepid trellis
just having stuff
tribal blade
sub i think is the most iconic rogue spec that captures what a rogue is
tribal blade
on a thematic level
oblique grove
Assassin feels like marvel slop of specs
signal tangle
on a thematic level
True
lilac stag
At our raiding level itâs mostly how to I work around doing the range mechanics because range is hard to play and do mechanics.
signal tangle
Outlaw is more how I would see a Pirate fight in a movie for example
vale pine
idm spreadsheet gaming
i think many of the long term sub players are willing to invest time in more detailed optimizations. But people who main other specs or classes are turned off very quickly from things like this.
void tendon
What makes Sub so much fun according to you ? Compared to other rogue spec at le...
Bursty, cooldowns feel nice. Outlaw pretty spammy but consistent on the meters
tepid trellis
What makes Sub so much fun according to you ? Compared to other rogue spec at le...
to summ the specs up right
Outlaw = Reactionary fast gameplay (zoomer spec)
Assa = Plate spinning with focus on buff/debuff uptime (slow af boomer spec)
Sub = Methodical playstyle where you need to think ahead and prepare for burst sequences (goes from extremely slow to very fast in cds)
rocky ocean
Humongous brain spec
tribal blade
the thinking ahead part is what makes it kinda rough sometimes
signal tangle
Thank you for the answers guys
oblique grove
The shadow dust incident
tribal blade
i forget sometimes how much other specs can just press their buttons when they come off cd
lilac stag
dust was never the issue
tribal blade
and they can play brain off
lilac stag
but go on
signal tangle
Do we have rogues that only play sub and stream regularly in the discord ?
tepid trellis
dust was never the issue
all it did was highlight a problem with cooldown design and raid design
lilac stag
Do we have rogues that only play sub and stream regularly in the discord ?
There are like 12 of us that play sub
total
oblique grove
I meant the shadow dust incident as a joke
tepid trellis
Do we have rogues that only play sub and stream regularly in the discord ?
i stream every raid and early season mythic+
signal tangle
Lmao ok that gives me plenty of choice that's good
oblique grove
I liked things being dynamic
tepid trellis
i stream every raid and early season mythic+
so in like 5 hours
lilac stag
Lmao ok that gives me plenty of choice that's good
Guess which spec is which.
signal tangle
so in like 5 hours
Dropped a follow
lilac stag
yep. Numbers so low it doesnât fit on the chart. 
signal tangle
I'll be there
signal tangle
yep. Numbers so low it doesnât fit on the chart. <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
Yeah I'm not surprised a lot of people like braindead spec
As long as it's doing numbers
tepid trellis
majority of people in this game think big numbers = fun
lilac stag
tepid trellis
and doesent care about how it plays
signal tangle
Can't blame them, I'm mained Ret most of the season I played
lilac stag
Dave still bis
oblique grove
I'll tell the other rogues that I love coup de grace and trickster in general and they respond like I'm a freak
tepid trellis
trickster is nice
tribal blade
sub is kind of like arcane mage
oblique grove
If killing spree didn't kill me all the time I would play trickster outlaw
tribal blade
where people will only play it if it's the absolute best thing
tepid trellis
(only reason i like trickster more than DS is because of the extra dance cdr)
they should really buff our baseline cdr slightly
lilac stag
Trickster fixes base sub issues
lilac stag
Haha
vestal escarp
They should change deepening and remove cdr
tribal blade
i played DS without Skyfury
why would you do that to yourself
tepid trellis
i didn't notice
until it was too late
i shouldve just swapped to assa that night
tribal blade
press feint- it's over
tepid trellis
even with 100% uptime
molten citrus
deepening shadows nerf never got reverted after dust was removed =/
tribal blade
at least on sin you don't feel losing skyfury
oblique grove
I once killing spreed on dawnbreaker and I no clipped to the backrooms
tribal blade
dude sub would feel so good with just a bump in deepening cdr
tepid trellis
it would yes
molten citrus
yep
tepid trellis
ive asked for this since Amirdrassil
tribal blade
i don't think it would have to be much tbh
tepid trellis
it doesent
tribal blade
just make it less aids
tepid trellis
just by 0,2 more per cp
tribal blade
yeah that would be enough
molten citrus
isn't that what it was pre nerf?
tepid trellis
yeh
vestal escarp
Yes
molten citrus
tepid trellis
it has been nerfed mutiple times tho
molten citrus
i was really surprised they didn't revert that nerf
tepid trellis
i started out at 1sec per cp
molten citrus
when removing dust
tepid trellis
the devs has 0 clue how sub works
swift tinsel
1 sec deepening would be bonkers, Iâm in
signal tangle
the devs has 0 clue how sub works
It feels like the devs have 0 clue how anything works tbh
swift tinsel
Ye weâd be back to huge uptime again
vestal escarp
Normal dance dmg is low anyway
vale pine
they should really buff our baseline cdr slightly
+1 shd cdr is too low especially on ds
tribal blade
It feels like the devs have 0 clue how anything works tbh
it's not just the devs, it's the wow community in general
including max
liquid max
tepid trellis
max is just a spreadsheet gamer now
vestal escarp
Make deepening give cdr based on finishers in dance and not on total cp spent before next dance
tepid trellis
this just needs to be 0.7-0.8
tribal blade
if i have to watch him do a 3 hour video going over every spec and him getting to sub and going "...strike damage buffed you know what i have no idea what this means"
swift tinsel
Is he still like 99% reaction content outside of rwf
tepid trellis
and we are chilling
oblique grove
Tyler1 sub rogue arc
tribal blade
he does a lot of going over every single spec in the game
swift tinsel
0.7 would be great again
tribal blade
and every time he gets to sub he completely skips it because he has no idea how sub works and doesn't care
swift tinsel
Esp with next seasons set
tepid trellis
and every time he gets to sub he completely skips it because he has no idea how ...
its why we need jpc the yapper
to come back
tribal blade
i sound jaded for no reason over max, but it's significant because he's the most followed wow content creator
and the devs listen to him
swift tinsel
vestal escarp
this just needs to be 0.7-0.8
Did you look at new cycle of hatred for dh? I think thats where we should be headed
swift tinsel
Since you fire off three dances in the first 30ish seconds that would frontload the cdr a ton
tepid trellis
only class other than rogue i have a slight interest in atm is enhance
swift tinsel
If we went to cycle style
vestal escarp
Not the same ruling
For cycle is a bit too much because you get cdr just for pressing the button
But theres no more the whole deal of focus on spending constantly
Which could be reserved to other specs imo
Since sub already farms its cdr mostly in dance+sod
The poorly tuned deepening does its part but you would still be in the negative loop of trying to farm too hard outside symbols for a fee casts more
fossil dove
Tyler1 sub rogue arc
lol what
rancid lichen
For cycle is a bit too much because you get cdr just for pressing the button
you guys can have cycle
it's kinda uncessearily cringe for DH anyway
vestal escarp
Ik nobody asked for new cycle
rancid lichen
Realz insisting on that version of cycle instead of just flat CDR sadly
it is what it is
vestal escarp
Must most dhs still complained no dmg outside surge and surge windows too far apart
And yet nobody picked old flat cdr cycle
Abysmal playrate
rancid lichen
Must most dhs still complained no dmg outside surge and surge windows too far ap...
Oh yeah, definitely an issue
I mean yeah, it was kinda unplayable in dungeons as it requires uptime
Most people just want cycle to put eye beam on a 20 second cooldown though
instead of needing to cast 4 eye beams before it's down to 20
rancid lichen
Don't want to spam the rogue channel with DH yapping but u need 4 casts, not 2
vestal escarp
Its 2 pointer with 2 points subtracting 10s per cast?
vestal escarp
It got nerfed then lmao
rancid lichen
Nah, it was 10s with 2x points in it before
vestal escarp
Yeah it got nerfed by removing the second point
rancid lichen
Yeah it got nerfed by removing the second point
Nono, it used to be 5s per talent point
vestal escarp
We're saying the same thing
rancid lichen
We're not
vestal escarp
rancid lichen
I'm illiterate LMAO
tepid trellis
1 point 10%
vs 2 point 10%
rancid lichen
yeah, it was always 5 seconds per cast I meant, 2.5s with 1 point
vestal escarp
It's ass now omg 
oblique grove
I'll have what they're smoking
rancid lichen
It's dope having 20 second eye beams in keys but the whole idea of having desynced EssB and EB at the start of the fight is bleh
no more DH talk or people will find out we are busted on PTR
tepid trellis
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
only class other than rogue i have a slight interest in atm is enhance
enh got heavily hit by bugfixes too
lilac stag
always are
worn ivy
Any news ptr ??
swift tinsel
sectech busted atm and not always benefitting from 4pc
worn ivy
New set bonus better than s1
Set bonus ?
tepid trellis
by alot
worn ivy
Noice
thin lion
How are WE looking in General ? I mean ITS Most likely Just a guess at this Point in time, but are we lacking dmg compared to Others (i mean obviously to the so called "S-Tier" Specs) but how is Ur feeling at the Moment ?
alpine wraith
overall from first looks seems we will be quite good just after getting tier
then become mid
tier set power is quite big
but trinkets and other things are not crazy for sub
rose pond
they have barely touched rogue for adjustments yet, i think there will be bigger changes coming in next few weeks
grand wyvern
they have barely touched rogue for adjustments yet, i think there will be bigger...
Copium overdose my friend
thin lion
Thanks and gameplay wise? From what Im reading here, it is sounding quite degenreate to apply rupture over and over again Just for cdr
rose pond
i dont think its copium, stuff still doesnt work and there have been minimal number adjustments all of ptr.
swift tinsel
Thanks and gameplay wise? From what Im reading here, it is sounding quite degenr...
you won't really do this
outside of when flag is close to coming up again
You can if you want to hard-preserve your stacks
but it kinda evens out
lilac stag
Release candidate. Patch in 2 weeks. Yep plenty of changes inc.
swift tinsel
New bug is omegabad because sectech loses a lot of damage
leaden prairie
i heard they were reworking sub rn
summer mica
i dont think its copium, stuff still doesnt work and there have been minimal num...
big problem is, dev(s) working on rogue have close to zero clue about the class, how it works and where to take it from here
rose pond
i cant tell if they are trying to push people to sub or outlaw. sub does well but outlaw is getting 6% dmg buff
thin lion
but it kinda evens out
Ty man
And btw I Love the sub Community its refreshing to get actual answers and talk with passionate people 
rose pond
theya re just peppering in small buffs here and there
i feel like they need to get the tier sets to work first before they can start adjusting numbers
then again rogue is usually the last class to be worked on every ptr
swift tinsel
i heard they were reworking sub rn
huge if true
lilac stag
Pushing 12 people to outlaw. Good god man
grand wyvern
i feel like they need to get the tier sets to work first before they can start a...
i just wonder what data are they gonna base it on if they still havent fixed
swift tinsel
WHAO
lilac stag
i just wonder what data are they gonna base it on if they still havent fixed
Theyâll come in here in a week asking us to log.
fallow nimbus
I never understand why cdr got yeeted to 0.5 from like 0.8 or what is was without testing 0.6/0.7 first
old venture
Theyâll come in here in a week asking us to log. <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
why would they ask us to log something they won't bother looking at?
lilac stag
probably a tick box in the âcompletion listâ
alpine wraith
well they cant look at raid testing because no one plays sub
but hey you have this weekend to "test" m+
log in with sub pog
fallow nimbus
Better cdr would just make everything more smooth. We are capped by sod charges anyway so what harm would it do if we could just use 1 dance extra when the boss is about to die?
grand wyvern
this is the easiest sandbag ever, we just have to play dogshit for a week
swift tinsel
Except we don't get the kind of attention for a sandbag to work
old venture
sandbag? I play like dogshit every week
vestal escarp
Idk if sandbagging ever worked
lilac stag
Sub doesnât know how to sandbag
lilac stag
sandbag? I play like dogshit every week
What are you playing? I know it ainât wow
old venture
What are you playing? I know it ainât wow
I'm playing the line of doing enough to not get fired before I drop my 2 week notice on my boss this monday
alpine wraith
new poe league
tepid trellis
Rogue* doesn't
rats over at outlaw are keeping bugs hidden
old venture
no I got a new job already
old venture
rats over at outlaw are keeping bugs hidden
They're just confused fury warriors
lilac stag
Nice
old venture
think about it
tepid trellis
fair
vestal escarp
Ol is a war spec
old venture
Nice
smol pay raise as well
"smol"
to put it in perspective, my new employer admitted to underpaying me
lilac stag
doing what?
tepid trellis
condolences
lilac stag
selling of soul
lilac stag
Luigi did nothing wrong
old venture
well its auto insurance defense
vale pine
no I got a new job already
congrats
old venture
sometimes
hollow snow
Luigi did nothing wrong
free luigi
old venture
congrats
ty friend 
I interviewed for a more honorable position that pays a little less but is still a significant raise from what I get paid now
and it's state government work
hollow snow
inb4 defunded
old venture
I would be coordinating attorneys for the poor at 20 different district courts if I get that job
naw it doesn't get any federal funding
it's safe
hollow snow
Oxi im in law school, how bad is the bar exam
hollow snow
MA and federal
old venture
I haven't heard anything terrible about the Massachusetts bar exam
alpine wraith
is that massachusets or whoever is written
alpine wraith
master assasin state
hollow snow
F
old venture
few pointers: def take the time to unwind while prepping for the bar. You don't wanna turn up end of July looking/feeling like shit
also invest in Adaptibar, it's the best way to prep for the MBEs
it's worth every penny
alpine wraith
maybe
swift tinsel
what are those
alpine wraith
knowledge points
lilac stag
enchanting knowledge points
old venture
@hollow snow I sped through the videos and shit with Barbri and took notes on shit I wasn't super knowledgable in because I don't learn like that. I focused by outlining practice essays given to me by barbri and doing adaptibar questions. 2 weeks out from the bar exam I was outlining 12 essays a day and doing 200 MBEs. It worked well for the old Michigan bar exam but they swapped to the UBE recently so idfk what it entails anymore
I also had the perks of having areas of law that weren't tested for over 20 years
which I reviewed with my friend the night before and the morning of
and we both passed by the slimmest margins
alpine wraith
not even close
hollow snow
So Adderall buff the bar got it o7
old venture
not even close
you know what they call someone who passes the bar by 1 point and the guy who passes by 100 points?
Esquire
alpine wraith
a pass ia a pass same as my master or doctor you get the paper
and it is signed the same as the others!
hollow snow
Can I cloak student loans
alpine wraith
you can try and vanish but it wont work
old venture
Can I cloak student loans
there's a hack I did
go self employment route
get paid in cash
make less than 40k a year on paper
hollow snow
Cheat on taxes?
alpine wraith
hey life is rough
old venture
I've paid exactly $0 in student loans since 2019
old venture
Imma kick that can down the road until they get discharged
or until I die
either way
old venture
i'll rework it np
keen dome
I've paid exactly $0 in student loans since 2019
High5, hero.
old venture
High5, hero.
the fact that student loans are higher interest than a mortgage is fucking obscene
it's actually legalized usury
hollow snow
<@737752189962813460> I sped through the videos and shit with Barbri and took no...
Thank you oxi, you should do law school class guides on the side tbhđ
keen dome
it's actually legalized usury
It's gross, yeah
I plan to take my student debt to where it belongs: the grave
old venture
old venture
Thank you oxi, you should do law school class guides on the side tbhđ
the most important part is to take breaks while studying
keen dome
Hell yeah, good advice
old venture
otherwise you'll burn out by the time end of july rolls around
keen dome
Also sometimes it's worth just looking at the things that sparked your interest in the first place.
lilac stag
Watch Legally Blonde twice a week during studies.
old venture
I worked until first week of June, then I sat down and focused on studying. I made sure to take a day every week to just do anything except study
keen dome
Remembering why you're studying it
keen dome
I am continually amused by the amount of rogues who studied law
there's so many of them
tepid trellis
the most important part is to take breaks while studying
i used to split my week 50/50
keen dome
Well, maybe not many but more than you'd expect
leaden prairie
i cant tell if they are trying to push people to sub or outlaw. sub does well bu...
outlaw is doing tank damage on ptr rn, i think you are safe even with the outlaw buff
hollow snow
i used to split my week 50/50
Are you a lawman too?
tepid trellis
yuhp
old venture
european lawman
hollow snow
Holy
grand wyvern
i always thought rogue would be more of a STEM class
keen dome
You'rea peeing Lawman
rose pond
@leaden prairie so its sub or bust right now?
old venture
i always thought rogue would be more of a STEM class
the vast majority are
keen dome
i always thought rogue would be more of a STEM class
I can double up then 'cos I have both
old venture
ryfie is also a lawman if peeps remember him
tepid trellis
gone but not forgotten
hollow snow
I member him, didn't know that
old venture
gone but not forgotten
leaden prairie
<@352916297262301194> so its sub or bust right now?
ass prolly also good still
hollow snow
Stealthi what county
old venture
he got a better/more demanding lawman job and quit wow
hollow snow
Country
tepid trellis
Denmark
lilac stag
@old venture are you still white at new job?
lilac stag
got it
haughty mural
there is law and order in here
lilac stag
keen dome
I should re-watch that
lilac stag
low key really good
keen dome
Yeah I love it. It has it's issues but it really has a great vibe
I love all of Stallone's terrible and stupid sci-fi films.
Love me some Demolition Man
lilac stag
One of the remakes I actually enjoyed quite nicely
keen dome
Yeah, Urban Dreadd is fantastic
I would love a TV series in that style but that's also because I love karl urban
rocky ocean
Rookie, judgement
keen dome
You know what dredd property also ruled? the ps2 judge dredd game
granite river
!guide
still tulip
I want to believe in the sub dream for 11.1, but this bugged tier set has me spooked. Am I worried over nothing here?
keen dome
Yeah it'll probably be fine
frail swift
is sub looking like its going to pop off in 11.1?
keen dome
It's been getting more fixed by the week. It'll either be janky or be krangled. But we'll make do.
keen dome
is sub looking like its going to pop off in 11.1?
Who knows, they could tune it the second before it goes live and nerf everything. It'll probably be fine for most content though.
Play it because you wanna play it, not because it might be meta, imo.
hazy breach
Even if sub does low damage overall (which i dont think it will). The burst it does with the new set is immense
So its still gonna be powerful
keen dome
What was it, 60M SecTecs?
tardy badge
i was thinking about playing sub again but i played mostly outlaw and assassination. is it performing really well right now? looks good from playing around with it last night after not playing retail for months
hazy breach
If you count blades yes somehting like that
keen dome
The Big Hit! 
hazy breach
i was thinking about playing sub again but i played mostly outlaw and assassinat...
Yep sub is good. In the current patch all 3 rogue specs are superb in raid and really solid in m+ 
frail swift
i've been playing with ass this season. is sub looking like its going to out perform the other rogue specs/
hazy breach
New patch only time will tell
fair stump
With sectec benefitting fully from blades, do we blades on the first sectec now?
hazy breach
You can if you want to, but it doesnt matter
Even if you delay it like now blades are still up while the clones hit
vale pine
clones is where the damage is, and they hit 1 and 1.3 sec after
hazy breach
As they hit 1s and 1.3s after
Should probably just suggest sectech before just to avoid the question right fuu
Since in sims it didnt matter
chrome palm
Do we know what the raid boes are yet?
Noticed we have like 5-6 slots without a mastery vers option
swift tinsel
We have a lot of mastery so it's not the worst idea to have some non-mastery/vers gear
vale pine
possible
swift tinsel
and there's realistically only like 1-2 slots that don't have mastery/vers
non-tier slots I mean
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hiDiNeanJ4XtroVaWgHY9i new highest so far
still tweaking
KPB noted forcing primary + 3 type gems has been leading to higher sims overall
granite river
Do we know what the raid boes are yet?
Think I saw boe mast/vers boots
vale pine
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hiDiNeanJ4XtroVaWgHY9i new highest so...
nice
swift tinsel
the gems and enchants have a habit of swapping between mastery/vers and vers/mastery for the non-crit ones, and the ring enchants hop around a bit too
gonna mess around with crafted slots a bit later after my meeting
made a baseline simc input for top gear with that gear set so you don't have as many combos to sim other options and have it take 25mins
fallow nimbus
Don't go down that rabbithole
swift tinsel
I love simming lol
its a fun puzzle
sometimes the pieces are janky as fuck but still fun
fallow nimbus
I mean the gems
swift tinsel
Oh, yeah those will change around at the slightest touch lol
fallow nimbus
Yeah
swift tinsel
thats like bottom-tier prio for what I'm looking at, its mostly to have the 3x but that's a mini-optimization itself
bc iirc that part adds like 10k dps or less
lilac stag
Guys I hear Sub is playable next tier?
swift tinsel
Its in the bin, scrap and start over
fallow nimbus
Now that you mentioned gems. I wanted to test what happens when i replace the haste green gem with a standard mast one
keen dome
Guys I hear Sub is playable next tier?
big news if true, imo
lilac stag
I played assa all tier. Sub easy to play?
swift tinsel
idk I do like seeing Akaari dice roll her damage
keen dome
I played assa all tier. Sub easy to play?
Do you like the colour purple.
swift tinsel
haven't done any more looking into the weirdness from last night yet, I don't wanna get annoyed until after lunch
lilac stag
Do you like the colour purple.
I dont see color
swift tinsel
got that dog in you
lilac stag
just like flag icon
keen dome
gotta like purple to besub
still trellis
but sub rogue color is blue, why do i need to like purple
keen dome
teal lichen
hey may i ask what is the best race for sub ((Raid)) ?
lilac stag
Meghar
hazy breach
Yes, just pretend its got 3 min cd and macro it to blades
lilac stag
we donât like passives as much
We are a burst spec
Passives may sim closely, bust racials just better
in the end play what makes you happy.
keen dome
in the end play what makes you happy.
the most important suggestion imo
lilac stag
yeah but asking what is bis, just gotta spit đ
swift tinsel
Does a race change gkick you or just faction change?
keen dome
I think just faction change
But don't quote me on it i've never done one 'cos I am a boring human
swift tinsel
worst case I use my alt account to invite myself back
vale pine
only fraction change does
haughty mural
yeah but asking what is bis, just gotta spit đ
Spitting facts all day long
lilac stag
Does a race change gkick you or just faction change?
Faction yes. Race no.
clever delta
does the delay CB tech for sectech work even for DS or only trisckter?
haughty mural
What if they just bake CB into sectec 
fathom adder
what if we just bake Cb + sectec into bs 
swift tinsel
always crits, crit grants crit damage
haughty mural
Now we are cooking with gas
young path
we donât like passives as much
Mechagnome so so strong in keys⌠itâs like 2 extra augment runes at all times. Rarely am I less than 10 stacks for an entire dungeon
young path
Guys I hear Sub is playable next tier?
Itâs playable now!
lilac stag
I listen to raccoon.
two more weeks of fury hopefully Queen goes boom. Roster boss is sketch.
keen dome
two more weeks of fury hopefully Queen goes boom. Roster boss is sketch.
I believe in you. Blow the spider up
With a can of RAID
lilac stag
We seem to be racing FatBoss for race to world last
Er not farboss⌠other guide writing guild.
Ready check Pull
swift tinsel
Question since I canât check myself atm. If you join a follower dungeon can you get a sky fury buff then leave and have it still active
woeful rain
while playing sub we never press BP in trickster or?
swift tinsel
Or do you lose the buff when you leave group/dungeon
lilac stag
You press bp
hazy breach
while playing sub we never press BP in trickster or?
5 or more you press bp
lilac stag
!guide
woeful rain
5 or more you press bp<:Surebud:1083827360815665235>
gotcha tyty
swift tinsel
Ah Iâd imagine it would be the same between live and ptr but jic
keen dome
I'm shouting at her but she's ignoring me
swift tinsel
I can hop on in a bit, wanted to ask in case anyone knew offhand
keen dome
Druid gave me versatility immeidately though so let me check if I keep that
Nah it dropped immediately, couldn't take the mark buff out of there
dry tapir
Do we bind symbols to anything or best to manual press?
swift tinsel
Can you teleport out like in a regular dungeon or do you get dropped?
keen dome
I'm going to test that right now
I full left so let's see.
Teleported out this time. Immeidately lost the buffs.
swift tinsel
Boooo
keen dome
Also the Shaman outright refuses to give the buff
swift tinsel
Thanks for checking though!
keen dome
đŤĄ
swift tinsel
ptr servers down for anyone else?
vague oar
Do we bind symbols to anything or best to manual press?
Its best to manual press. U can bind if ur super lazy but that's worse to do and don't do that
lilac stag
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
latent finch
wait we dont macro cold blood with sec tec anymore? When do we not want to use them both togehter?
hazy breach
You always want it on your second sectech in cds
latent finch
thanks makes sense
vague oar
Does anyone actually like cb? Think that buttons cringe
keen dome
It should just be made part of SecTec imo
vale pine
it isn't even that strong
hazy breach
Does anyone actually like cb? Think that buttons cringe
I dont like the button but the concept of making sectech 100% crit sometimes is nice
vale pine
you can also just macro it to secret with only small damage trade offs
ideal is ofc what eleem mentioned
vague oar
I feel like all it does is add clunkyness to an already kinda clunky spec
I 100% macro that button. I can't be assed to manually press it for the slight optimization
random comet
Just natty roll a crit instead, easy
keen dome
I think rolling it into SecTec really wouldn't be a big issue. It'd smooth it out and maybe put something cooler there.
granite river
I dont like the button but the concept of making sectech 100% crit sometimes is ...
Now for the concept of sec tec to 100 benefit from tier set
keen dome
Bake CB into SecTec. Take speed shroud out of our tree and put it in the normal tree. And uh, do the next bit
hazy breach
Like if it was "During shadow blades your secret techniques have 100% crit chance" that would be better than current iteration for sure
Or even just first
keen dome
That'd be cool. I was going to suggest "first SectEc in dance has 100% crit" but uh
I realized the problem there.
keen dome
Isn't it a bit moot, though? Since you might as well just bake it into SecTec itself then 'cos you only really use it once per cast of them anyway.
vale pine
you could also make secret reset the cd
so you could have diffrent power levels outside and during cooldowns
keen dome
Nod That'd be interesting
edgy zenith
when do we get a pin like this:
đĄ
(joking)
(but not really)
(but mostly joking)
hazy breach
When we feel like we can make it without lying
edgy zenith
bro just lie
hazy breach
But also sims are made assuming the tier is gonna work, and, well.... đ
vale pine
when do we get a pin like this:
sooner to s2
edgy zenith
think you guys should send the sim code to blizzard
might help them bugfix the tier set
you guys got it working đ
vale pine
i mean most of it is also "no change"
talents might have small chanegs to DB or at least take one point finality
edgy zenith
i mean most of it is also "no change"
i was joking, rest easy king
keen dome
"Sub is still really purple" there, that's a pin worthy answer to the state of sub rogue to keep people going until meaningful knowledge is ready
hexed sluice
How much difference is embellishments lookin
frail onyx
New to sub and just wanted to say spec fun and thank you all for the info in here
vale pine
How much difference is embellishments lookin
not much, can even ignore them kinda
uneven scarab
How much difference is embellishments lookin
literally like 0.1-0.2%
hexed sluice
I really wanna run wacky embellishment, cause I like cantrips
keen dome
New to sub and just wanted to say spec fun and thank you all for the info in her...
Don't hesitate to ask questions! Everyone is very helpful here.
frail onyx
Don't hesitate to ask questions! Everyone is very helpful here.
Appreciate i just started playing it last week was working on leveling classes in down time and went from that to really enjoying the class so plan to play it for season 2
keen dome
Hell yeah more sub rogues
glacial hinge
yey we are growing đ
solar charm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
frail onyx
I had tried assassin and outlaw before and wasnt a fan should have just tried sub a long time ago
hexed sluice
literally like 0.1-0.2%
Bless, maybe I'll be a stilettos/binding/captured starlight gamer this season
uneven scarab
im not sure about any of those but ascension/thread/grip are the three best options for us i believe
hexed sluice
I'm rocking thread now, but it's boring, and the two JC ones are looking tempting if the % is so low
swift tinsel
ascension/weps will likely be good until you can replace them with max myth
double lense has been simming pretty well but they're still up in the air
hexed sluice
My guild just casually does heroic mid season, so defensive usually work better for pugging and guild stuff
swift tinsel
we can't die unless we fuck up
hexed sluice
Yeah, I enjoy it a lot, felt like arcane mage in bulk
swift tinsel
and with cheat you can fuck up once and not die lol
hexed sluice
Having mained arcane forever till finally jumping
Oh I run the feint talent
Reminds me of mana shield
uneven scarab
Elusiveness good but cheat death on prog too valuable
swift tinsel
Plenty of stuff in heroic can oneshot you during prog
kind bluff
Our shadow dmg is considered magic correct?
hazy breach
yes
kind bluff
Tyty
jaunty heath
Helo guys I see sub do damage on droki stream can plz tell if sub is meta? 
keen dome
Sub's always meta in my heart
swift tinsel
I prefer death meta, sometimes symphonic speed meta
lilac stag
Hi guys I see kush playing tea. Is tea best?
swift tinsel
depends on if you're british or not
keen dome
I prefer death meta, sometimes symphonic speed meta
I wonder what music Sub rogue is
It's ska, isn't it
twilit phoenix
nah outlaw is for sure ska
twilit phoenix
sub is prolly like kraftwerk
swift tinsel
animals as leaders
twilit phoenix
polyphia
swift tinsel
tru
twilit phoenix
god that one twink from polyphia is so cute
swift tinsel
I could see devoker being ska bc there's not much to it but its kinda fun
uneven scarab
polyphia goes hard
Same with animals as leaders
pretty accurate to a sub music genre
lilac stag
It's ska, isn't it
twilit phoenix
most of the outlaw WA packs sound like ska
uneven scarab
Banger
uneven scarab
Truly iconic
keen dome
Sub is def Ska. Madness ska.
lapis hatch
hey guys when playing sub in aoe, if theres less than 20 seconds on flag am i just holding cd's and building with shuriken storm , spending on black powder? feels like complete ass dps doing that lol
hazy breach
You want to make sure you can fit 2 dances, 2 sectechs and 2 symbols into every flag+blades yes
twilit phoenix
@hazy breach I was looking at your DS logs, and you flag right before your first evisc?
I thought we flag after the vanish rup in opener
hazy breach
No, use before evis
uneven scarab
It doesnât necessarily matter if itâs rupture or evisc before flag
sly shore
depends on if you're british or not
wth
keen dome
love me coffee
uneven scarab
Like real coffee is alright
But anything youâd get from any fast food place or whatever
Nahh
its so shit
jaunty heath
I'm british and I'm going to take a stand.
Wait I thought ur German
keen dome
Nope, English sadly.
keen dome
But anything youâd get from any fast food place or whatever
oh yeah, 100%
Piss water
lilac stag
I would like a royal with cheese
keen dome
which royal
weary kite
looking like sub rogue might have the sauce in keys next season
lucid frost
looking like sub rogue might have the sauce in keys next season
go on
swift tinsel
I mean we have the sauce in keys this season
thick temple
Yeah all 80 of us this season
twilit phoenix
idk about all that
twilit phoenix
i think what he meant is that sub might be THE move rogue-wise next season
no more sin snoozing
swift tinsel
uneven scarab
I mean yeah if u consider a super bugged op tier set the move
twilit phoenix
no more coup charge either
uneven scarab
Thats surely to get touched again
random comet
Ooo are we deathstalking?
swift tinsel
miss me with that shit
thick temple
I saw casual upload a few runs of m+ sub in 11.1 beta but Im confused why is the damage numbers insane. Is it normal for dps to just keep getting higher and higher as the season progresses
swift tinsel
our tier set has been bugged
random comet
I mean yeah
twilit phoenix
miss me with DS for sure
swift tinsel
consistently over ptr
thick temple
Like no flag packs would pull like 7 mil dps
uneven scarab
Bugged tier set
swift tinsel
not losing 10 stacks affects your BP a lot
uneven scarab
ye
swift tinsel
like a lot
uneven scarab
Thats alot of damage on bp
swift tinsel
and turns your downtime into not-as-downtime
uneven scarab
Even outside dance
swift tinsel
without the balance of low floor and high ceiling your overalls are gonna be higher
twilit phoenix
shhh don't call it a bug
weary kite
not losing 10 stacks affects your BP a lot
so once this gets patched sub rogue might b normie dmg?
lilac stag
so once this gets patched sub rogue might b normie dmg?
If you donât enjoy the spec and are just looking for meta I wouldnât put my $14 eggs all in one basket
uneven scarab
Assa is probably still the one to look for if u wanna be meta
swift tinsel
so once this gets patched sub rogue might b normie dmg?
it will still be very good
uneven scarab
The tiers will get touched again
swift tinsel
idk about meta but still able to do high keys
uneven scarab
Yeah
swift tinsel
sub burst is still extremely strong
uneven scarab
Wont really be able to tell relative power levels until itâs released
leaden prairie
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
Always is
random comet
If the game was played in simcraft I guess đĽ˛
slate lantern
Everyone knows the meta is to only pull 8 mobs at a time in cinderbrew 
lilac stag
The Mets just avoids cindervrew
lapis hatch
just to clarify, outside dance windows in aoe we dont do much damage right? been using shuriken storm and black powder with a couple ruptures out
uneven scarab
Yeah thatâs pretty much all you can do
uneven scarab
ya
lapis hatch
so if flag has 15-20 seconds left on cd i have to do no damage basically for 15-20 seconds?
uneven scarab
lapis hatch
lol
alpine wraith
ruptures do a lot of dmg
lapis hatch
ah do they? maybe im under-utilizing
lilac stag
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
uneven scarab
just spam ruptures out at that point
alpine wraith
also you would not dance anyway in those 15-20 secs
alpine wraith
so nothing of value was lost
leaden prairie
@vale pine https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/weaWyrYeQLHb7RtAjnu4SJ with talent changes
random comet
Golly
swift tinsel
META
leaden prairie
nerf outlaw !
slate lantern
uneven scarab
is it better
slate lantern
OUTLAW BAK
leaden prairie
Is tier set still terrible for outlaw or
its quite good now
you kjnow they nergfed it
then buffed it again
number wise its good
uneven scarab
leaden prairie
fun wise idk its weird
lapis hatch
and is first sectech of rotation meant to proc flawless form/nimble flurry? or is it just to get 2 sectechs in your burst window
leaden prairie
its just weird to think you have a 17% chance of rolling a 5 buff
cause then you arent happy when you arent rolling a 5 buff
i preffered when 5 buffs werent a thing
uneven scarab
and is first sectech of rotation meant to proc flawless form/nimble flurry? or i...
Its for all the above actually/tier set
leaden prairie
at least im not cringing when im on my 10th roll of the pull and still didnt get one
uneven scarab
Yeah i mean
leaden prairie
i dont even think its more rng btw
alpine wraith
dont worry as sub you can live not critting any evis in cds
leaden prairie
its just feel wise you get me
uneven scarab
Id rather have a SUPER low chance for a 5 buff
alpine wraith
for a cool -40% dps
leaden prairie
like 1% you mean
random comet
And then your group wipes on your god pull
leaden prairie
cause you are never thinking about it
alpine wraith
like legion rtb?
uneven scarab
Yeah thats how it should be
alpine wraith
that one was good but uh
random comet
Or your key tank afks for the next pack
leaden prairie
you get one once a year and you are happy but it doesnt change anything
now its going to be a bit weird
but eh
its ok
could be worse
leaden prairie
ye its huge but not huge enough you get me
uneven scarab
Ye ye
leaden prairie
like if it was something like 40%
uneven scarab
Thats what she said
alpine wraith
what zac is saying is that with that % there are chances in 4 min pulls
or so to just not get it at all
if you are dino enough
uneven scarab
yeah its a weird number for it tho
alpine wraith
basically as outlaw you can get no 5 roll bad ring procs resetting the other ring shitty kezan trink does not stack
and want to rope
alpine wraith
i played the same as always
suddenly -50% dps
hmm
i mean sub will be kinda the same but at least you can pad the numbers on some bosses because you can blast some adds and take dmg from other people with burwst
alpine wraith
yea some here or there
but more importantly some bosses have 2 min phases you know what that means
yea we get 2 cds
others get 1
uneven scarab
oh baby
alpine wraith
and as always for sub first weeks will be crazy because tier set is strong and transmitter too
and isle ring is decent
alpine wraith
so likely we just get nerfed then go into obscurity until s3
after people get gear by week 3 or 5
twilit phoenix
Outlaw s1 treatment
alpine wraith
kinda fury warr treatment too
uneven scarab
i just hope they wait to do any nerfs until we have some real numbers
hazy breach
We'll see if they fix tier first
uneven scarab
Fury treatment too ya
alpine wraith
or arcane
actually i think they are going to add sec tech to resets on tier set
but forgot to add support or tooltips
so now we see the first implementation on the copies
that can lose the tier
hazy breach
Well the clones arent in dance 
paper stirrup
what is the target cap when i should choose black powder over evis and shuriken storm over shadowstrike?
paper stirrup
tyyy
jaunty heath
For trickster I think itâs always strike in dance, outside of dance you storm unless you need to get fazed up
Then you backstab until you have the huff
Buff*
DS just Storm
jaunty heath
Oh really
white briar
Then you backstab until you have the huff
I have the huff the moment I spec into sub 
paper stirrup
so basically 2+ targets = storm over backstab?
jaunty heath
I have the huff the moment I spec into sub <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
Back to your channel pesky pirate
jaunty heath
so basically 2+ targets = storm over backstab?
Yes, what Eleem says goes
I thought getting the agi is tied to fazed so it might be worth but apparently itâs not
hazy breach
Well proccing it gives you 3% more finisher damage yes
But it also costs more than a global, since you have so little energy and only get 1 cp
Instead of closer to full cp so you can bp and get more refunds
jaunty heath
I see, ty sir
hazy breach
Again the difference is small, but why bother doing something if its not better
swift tinsel
is there a specific ptr custom apl to use in mimiron or sending natty
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/weaWyrYeQLHb7Rt...
nice
willow pawn
ptr still down?
swift tinsel
back up for me
was down for a good while earlier
Akaari still weird
reset still per hit
no apparent changes
alpine wraith
it just has a % to reset because sec tech copies are not inside dance
man it is so funny
swift tinsel
had another 2 diff akaari hit scenario
but coup has been not resetting as much for me, might just be feely atm
slate marlin
ptr been down the entire day, there has had to be some changes right?
alpine wraith
likely they are doing some internal things for the m+ testing
swift tinsel
usual suspects still appear to be bugged tho
alpine wraith
oh seems i can enter now
alpine wraith
will see in a sec i logged off near dummies
slate marlin
that would be amazing
swift tinsel
still bugged
slate marlin
im happy with rs bugfix anyway
swift tinsel
no consume with DN up
vale pine
also wtf tier set is 730
huh
vestal escarp
730 is 12.0 ballpark?
lunar bluff
hey sub rogues, we feelin pretty shadow dancey today?
ill take one subtlety burger please, hold the fan of knives please
hazy breach
Smh bro cant even shitpost correctly
twilit phoenix
noob
vestal escarp
he said hold the fok
lunar bluff
You All Better Hope I Dont Cast Shuriken Storm On Your Neighborhood.
haughty mural
This is buggy right ?
alpine wraith
someone was working on next raid and did a whoopsie
funniest shit is it got even sent to prod and implemented
true fable
that is why they havent made changes to rogue 
kind bluff
So I can buy 1h weps but not daggers on ptr?
hollow spear
What's the top gear you're comparing it to?
swift tinsel
House/Eye
hazy breach
Worth noting that transmitter actually sims the same as a fully upgraded mythic house of cards 
slate marlin
!wa
alpine wraith
almost the same yes
alpine wraith
we dont really use 2 on uses no
swift tinsel
not a fan of double anyways