subtlety

[steel zinc]

Can't tell you anything else

[lilac stag]

have we tried it on differnt dummies?

[honest saddle]

only tried on org over the archway

but its broken as hell

stacks wont reset

[hazy breach]

Try dying or something ig

[honest saddle]

IRL or in game?

[hazy breach]

Ingame ofc

[honest saddle]

SURE SURE

if you take the armor off it does seem to reset eventually

but not sure what causes the actual reset

[hazy breach]

Idk why yours are working differently

[honest saddle]

did a 4 minute run, maybe I just crazy lucky on resets

[hazy breach]

prob some ptr jank

[lilac stag]

Make a new toon?

[hazy breach]

Well if you hit bp once on aoe with fw up

It should get removed insta

[honest saddle]

yeah over at the dummy as trickester spamming bp

no reset

yeah did like 100 bp no reset

its just broken

[hazy breach]

I mean your characters are broken ig

[honest saddle]

oh really

other people arent experiencing?

welp, put me in coach

[hazy breach]

No it resets on every hit instead, including shadowed finsihers

So bp on 5 targets is 10 rolls of 15%

[honest saddle]

lolololol

do other classes experience this same level of bugs that we do

I am sure they do

it just seems like we always have them

[lilac stag]

Yes. Just usually addressed way quicker

Like before they hit the ptr.

Hunters having weird hero talent pet interactions which are oddly like some of the Sectech pet issues.

Spaghetti code gonna be undercooked at times.

[slate lantern]

al dente

[lilac stag]

Not even.

Like the water didn’t even boil yet

[swift tinsel]

Wasn’t resetting for me the first 10-15 mins of ptr today but it’s been fine since then

[twilit phoenix]

Spaghetti code al dente

[sullen hare]

mmm crunchy pasta sitting in increasingly hot water

[warm marlin]

Havoc has a bug on ptr where a damage proc only procs from offhand attacks, unless you shadowmeld and remove both weapons and put them back on, then both hands work

[brisk onyx]

[tribal blade]

why did they announce the random DS fix but not all the sub ones

is it because the DS one is shared between specs

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

they probably didn't realize they fixed anything else

[steel sierra]

Took several weeks off from mythic raiding. Since when did Gloomblade overtake Backstab in Single tar Deathstalker? Or am I misremembering

[tepid trellis]

thats a long ass time ago

[steel sierra]

Well, shit

[worn ivy]

Yo any news ptr ?

[edgy zenith]

guys waht do if I'm first portal on platform 1 on ansurek

save flag for platform 2?

then flag first big add set?

or moan and complain is bis?

[tepid trellis]

you'd just cd platform 2

pad a bit on adds

[edgy zenith]

but then I can't pad on p3 minispiders 😡

[hybrid prism]

im 5/8m as a pug now. Just killed ovinax in a pug!

[tribal blade]

o7

[spark tusk]

😊

[tribal blade]

akaari's soul is like the friend who immediately abandons you whenever a cooler kid shows up

[spark tusk]

I wouldn't know, no cooler friends ever showed up than me
(because no friends ever showed up )

[tribal blade]

nooooo sad

[rocky thorn]

quick question, on queen, u guys use shadowdance whenever you have it? or save it for the big cds or not to overcap

[tepid trellis]

you sort of can

i hit the big mob on 2nd platform at 4:10 on our reclear last week

and smallies spawn at 5:40

so very very very tight

also pretty sure there are more small mobs on that 2nd platform than the spider spawns in p3

[edgy zenith]

I had like 20s on flag

our plat 2 and 3 are quick af I guess

I guess I could hold flag for second set of minispiders indstead of first set of big adds

[broken shadow]

does the tier set still not work for this spec on the ptr

[rocky ocean]

there is no hope

[fallow nimbus]

"No time to fix, will do later" 11.2 hits "rogue set fixed" new set bugged

[deft oar]

@alpine wraith I’m coming for you

[vale pine]

but 102 is the nicer number

[tepid trellis]

but 100 would be even nicer

[vale pine]

true

[keen dome]

Three chances to get a transmitter today. So far, one down.. Nothing. Come on lady luck

[tulip gorge]

Just get it 🤦‍♂️

[vale pine]

good luck

[tribal blade]

i saw this and decided to check my ranking for the first time ever

how in the hell am i 52

i guess this is what happens when nobody's playing sub /cry

[vale pine]

nice

[tribal blade]

i fully expected i was gonna be something like 200-250 range

also to highlight the level of sweat of sub rogues, annsie is the number 1 all star on wcl

that's crazy

[keen dome]

'Cos good Sub rogue, hell yeah

[tribal blade]

i think "good" is an overstatement haha

"above average" i think is better

[keen dome]

Haha, sure

I think I'm 213 for Heroic which is funny

[tribal blade]

SHEEEESH sub rogue represent

[tribal blade]

nice man!

[keen dome]

If I'mr eading it right, anyway. I can't do Myth as I have 1 kill which puts me at...

Which is also very funny

[tribal blade]

that's awesome man

[keen dome]

I'm very happy with my performance this season. I've improved a ton. But it's also a pretty big demonstration of just how few Sub rogues there are

[tepid trellis]

annsie has always been a parse demon

wish i had the motivation to still go for it

[tribal blade]

i can't imagine what goes into getting that done

[tepid trellis]

not much

you just sweat a bit more to pad a bit

that + good kill timers and a bit of luck

and a comp that allows you to pad on bosses where thats relevant

one example is him being on platform 3 for portals

allows you to pad a bit on spiders

and him perfect timing his burst for add spawns in p3

[void hound]

chyup

[tribal blade]

ahhh interesting

[tepid trellis]

so its like just a bunch of small things that you need in your favor

like you can probably still rank 1 the boss if you are 2nd platform

as long as you arent first portal

[void hound]

you can

second portal second platform is perfectly doable cause you got your dance out before

[tepid trellis]

the main issue for parsing is gonna be how many fury warriors you have in p3

[void hound]

chyup

i only got my rank 2 parse when we had one warrior with us

allowing you more than 2 globals on the small adds

[tepid trellis]

would have gotten a 2mil parse a few weeks back but we decided to wipe

its the same for bosses like Rashanan, Bloodbound Ovinax

[tribal blade]

i feel that, our fury warr is consistently top dps because of pad

[tepid trellis]

and to a certain degree Silken court

if you are on the DK side

you get free cleave

[void hound]

silken court you can get fucked now too since it dies before the last amp

[tribal blade]

sadly i'm not on DK side

and do P3 webs

[tepid trellis]

gotta readjust cds every week when we still had ramping dmg buff

we get 2 amps in p3 and then its dead

[tribal blade]

still managed to get a good parse on court last week which i was very happy about

[void hound]

thats what i mean

for us it died before the second amp

last kill

so you automatically lose out to people who kill the boss 15 seconds later

oh well

[tepid trellis]

i think we still get that one

but that was with someone dead, so maybe not

might have to rethink my cds

[void hound]

6 seconds dead after the last flag cast 💀

[tepid trellis]

yeh ours died at 7:05 last week as 19 people

[vestal escarp]

Have ptr aficionados checked if focus works with sectech now?

[alpine wraith]

not yet

it does not work with the extra copies hits

but with the first hit only

[still trellis]

aight i finally got a transmitter (only hc but whatever), im ready for S2 to play sub

[hazy breach]

Not quite Weekly PTR update

There has been no announced changes for sub but they have actually fixed some long withstanding bugs that the spec has had that some would consider actually worth more than a buff. These include:

• Shadowcraft can no longer refund combo points on replicating shadow rupture ticks
• Secret Technique clones now properly benefit from shadow blades 

There are some other minor bugfixes but these two are the most important and impactful. RS fix especially
PS: Tier is partially fixed, but still bugged. (<t:1739640176:D>)

[keen dome]

🙏

[median nacelle]

woop woop, champagne worthy

was gearing my dh as new main for m+

now it might stay an alt

[vale pine]

👍

[tribal blade]

the sectec clones benefiting from blades now comes just in time for us to have a ridiculous shadow amp during dance

perfect timing

someone get kush on the line, RS fix finally in

i would @ him but i don't know which one he is in here

[keen dome]

Just ping them all. Spread it far and wide

Shout the fix from the rooftops

[vale pine]

bugfixes give us dps again, common theme ^^

[subtle bramble]

is the tier set still bugged?

[tulip gorge]

btw, are we still going to use sec tech as the first finisher in dance?

[vale pine]

likely yes

rotation stays likely as is, there is some small min/max potential but we need to first get the tier set working

[tulip gorge]

tier is still bugged?

[vale pine]

yes

[mint swift]

Oh cool

SB fixed at least

[subtle bramble]

thats insane that we're most likely less than a month away and it still doesn't work

[tepid trellis]

[mint swift]

so that's what
2/3 of the specs witha bugged tier set
Or is outlaws bugged too

[lilac stag]

@topaz egret #subtlety message RS bug

[tribal blade]

it's exciting!

[vale pine]

bugfixes are welcome for sure

[mint swift]

So i assume you now use dance and blades at the same time

Instead of doing an ST then blades

[tulip gorge]

it's interesting how the PTR has been up for like what, one month? And rogue tier sets are still unusable

[lilac stag]

Normal

Nothing new for rogue

[tepid trellis]

dont think anything changes in that regard

[vale pine]

I think he knows, it is probably the first thing he tests on ptr ^^

[tepid trellis]

or it likely just wont matter at all

[tribal blade]

between activating dance and pressing sectec

probably anywhere in between there

[vale pine]

^ probably this

[lilac stag]

I’ll go with it won’t matter

Just sounds good that it’s fixed

[tepid trellis]

it almost never does

[vale pine]

you likely want to time blades in a way to have both secret casts in it

[tribal blade]

would the blades damage from sectec only work if blades is active before you press sectec

or would the clones benefit if you press blades after the inital hit

[tepid trellis]

and thats almost impossible to not do

[tribal blade]

just curious

[tepid trellis]

no matter how you line it up

[vale pine]

ye

[tepid trellis]

2x dance = 16 sec
blades = 20

so yeh

[tribal blade]

it'll be no issue getting 2 sectecs in blades as trickster

i haven't played DS in long enough to know

[lilac stag]

Blades is 16

[tribal blade]

oh yeah i'm dumb

[vale pine]

blades was nerfed to 16 ^^

[tepid trellis]

true

[haughty mural]

[tribal blade]

guaranteed

[vale pine]

but 16 is still easy to have both in it

[lilac stag]

You’re not doing that on DS consistently

[tepid trellis]

yes you are

[tribal blade]

i wish they'd revert blades back to 20 secs

[haughty mural]

just play trickster

[tepid trellis]

if you dont fit 2x sectech in both dances you are majorly fucking up

[lilac stag]

The clones

[tepid trellis]

yeh?

[lilac stag]

On the tail end

[tepid trellis]

doesent matter

you still fucked up

sectech should come back after 1-2 finishers in the 2nd dance

thats with me fucking up a shadowcraft refund

[topaz egret]

real?

[vale pine]

yes, the bug was fixed on ptr

[topaz egret]

wtf...

[lilac stag]

Real

[tribal blade]

it's finally happening

sectec also benefiting from blades now

[lilac stag]

Guess not.

[vale pine]

fair, i mean i also only infrequently log in and test things

kind of wait for RC to go through all bugs again and evaluate

too much effort else

[alpine wraith]

i mean they can still do a switcheroo on us like last time

but it is unlikely

[vale pine]

unlikely

[alpine wraith]

the intern that messed up the merge is now a trooper

[hazy breach]

Ye its a bit silly since shadow damage amps effectively double dip with blades

[tribal blade]

sub is about to be doing monster dam in cds

[hazy breach]

For example if we only had the 60% from the tier and none of the other shadow amps.
Without the 60% from the tier: If gloomblade did 100 dmg baseline, shadow blades would add 20 damage. for a total of 120
With the 60% from the tier: Gloom would do 160 damage and then blades would do 160 x 0.2 x 1.6 = 51. For a total of 211

[tulip gorge]

not if heroic week tuning has anything to say about it

[hazy breach]

Theyre not gonna redesign a spec during heroic week

[tulip gorge]

no but they can nerf it into the ground

[tribal blade]

that sounds so sexy

[tulip gorge]

it's a rogue tradition at this point

doing well in the first couple of weeks? get nerfed bozo

[vale pine]

is there a heroic week?

[hazy breach]

There is not

[vale pine]

baited

[tribal blade]

depends how blizz feels

sometimes they let it ride

sometimes they decide to nerf into the ground

but sub has actually not been on the end of excessive nerfs in quite a while

if my memory is right

[lilac stag]

no assa getting hit and no one playing sub so no data

[tribal blade]

yeah sin was high performing and they "readjusted" it's dmg profile accordingly which netted in a hilarious overall slight buff

the last time i remember sub getting nerfed was S3 of DF, and that was -6% to evis

which was actually barely anything considering our performance in raid was that good

just took them forever to finally get BP numbers back up

[alpine wraith]

sub got nuked in legion

[hazy breach]

But ye sub burst is about to be very silly

[alpine wraith]

got the triforce of nerfs

legendary nerfs overall nerf and new tier set was cheeks

[hazy breach]

Hopefully we do 0 dmg outside so our overall dps isnt too insane

[alpine wraith]

i remember farming the nighold set on titanforge was better than the new last raid one

yea we coming back to WoD or pandaria lvls of sub likely

just instead of 1 min 1:30

that one is easier to balance too i guess

[tribal blade]

i remember that moment, was quite sad

[leaden prairie]

I honestly can't tell, last I tested it was fucked, but testing it is very annoying since you have to roll like 1000 times to get decent data

[hazy breach]

Assa tier works

[alpine wraith]

time to make a raid of 20 outlaws all rolling for 1h

[mint swift]

Oh is the outlaw set RTB

[alpine wraith]

GET THE DATA

[hazy breach]

But ye idk i feel like theyre gonna nerf our set a bit

[alpine wraith]

this weekend JOIN THE OUTLAW GATHERING

they will nerf set or make our builders be able to proc the reset

[hazy breach]

If we have the tier fully stacked+sectech blades fix

[alpine wraith]

instead of finishers

[hazy breach]

Sectech is gonna do around 140% more damage than it does currently

Which is

Uh

[alpine wraith]

otherwise we will kinda squirt around in ST

[hazy breach]

A lot

[leaden prairie]

Ye, so having to test rtb proc chance, is as you would imagine

[alpine wraith]

yea we will get to 20m+ sec techs

[tribal blade]

doesn't seem crazy considering some numbers enhance does right now

[hazy breach]

Sectech is already at like 16-18m per cast

[alpine wraith]

yea it kinda goes like that i guess

[hazy breach]

Or well, the second cast in burst

Not every cast obviously

[alpine wraith]

well we can get some silly highrolls

with cyrce cuck ring

giving like 8k mastery etc

[leaden prairie]

The big enhance hits are way less often tho

[tribal blade]

fair enough

[alpine wraith]

you can check dh they can do some silly burst

[tribal blade]

all i know is looking at surging totem on details haha

[alpine wraith]

but cant maintain it like us

[leaden prairie]

It's like primordial wave with tempest and bunch of wolves type shit

[alpine wraith]

ah surging totem is a diff build

[leaden prairie]

While sub just does the same dam with every sec tech

[alpine wraith]

but yea that one can hit for 80m

the normal m+ one is the tempest one

likely the one most people see

[tribal blade]

true tempest in M+

[hazy breach]

LIke in mists if we had the new tier and the sectech+blades fix our last sectech would guaranteed, no rng, do like 120M

I dont think theyll let us have a button that does 40M (with current gear, not next season) on a single button press to a single target

[alpine wraith]

yea it will be kinda interesting

there is also the second trinket too that can proc stats

well they let many classes/specs have that

[vale pine]

maybe if they don't know

[tribal blade]

hopefully they don't over correct

[vale pine]

jokes aside

[alpine wraith]

yea with the way things go the set wont be fixed for release

then they fix it

and suddenly

SUB COMES IN WITH A STEEL CHAIR

[tulip gorge]

I think it will be the other way around

blizzard will come with a steel chair and nerf sub into irrelevancy

[alpine wraith]

well not the first time

but there is also hunter and ret

with some silly things goin on too

and dk

so idk

[tulip gorge]

yeah but hunter got reworked so it's allowed

[lilac stag]

mm gonna get nerfed

bm wont sit still for it

[mint swift]

That sounds soooo fun

:(

[alpine wraith]

ah yea bm hunters the most audacious

also moonkins and shadows

[tulip gorge]

that's a big list of strong specs

[lilac stag]

they want their pets game, screw the other two specs

[alpine wraith]

yea if you only play sub it is hard to see

[tulip gorge]

maybe they will just buff the rest of the specs at the same level

[alpine wraith]

but there are kinda a lot of busted things

so no idea what they will even nerf

fire also got buffed twice again too

[steel heart]

There is balance if everything is OP

[alpine wraith]

tbh i do miss when we completely obliterated bosses

in like 1 or 2 mins

with full gear

now even being BiS you take almost the same time

[tulip gorge]

I thought that was just me

I noticed the bosses taking way longer than usual to die

even with close to bis gear

[hazy breach]

This tier its fine though

[tulip gorge]

but I thought my pug groups are shit

[subtle bramble]

brood even with bis gear

[hazy breach]

Previous tiers was way worse

But ye no 20s fights

But 2-3m is fine

[alpine wraith]

brood even with 2 tanks 2 heals taking like 6 mins

zzzzzzzzz

[tulip gorge]

sub on zaqali assault

[upper narwhal]

I wish they would put the bug fixes in ptr notes but thank god they’re done fucking huge

[alpine wraith]

sometimes they do but most of the time they dont

like they fixed something with singular focus

but idk what

[upper narwhal]

I didn’t even know SF was bugged until I saw notes tbh

[alpine wraith]

well it still is bugged for sub

does not work with sec tech copies

[upper narwhal]

I never play DS other than pure ST so never had a chance to notice I suppose

[tribal blade]

i'm holding out hope trickster will be the play next tier

[vale pine]

trickster feels nicer to play

but DS is not abyssal

[tribal blade]

considering you get more dances as trickster could be better? and more dam in dance

[vestal escarp]

Rotten with storm needs to be fixed

[vale pine]

another fairly old bug

but i agree, def. would be nice to get that fixed

[vestal escarp]

you can storm before sectech, spread fw and then spam SS with ub resets

defo high prio

still BP tuning makes no sense, having to use it inside nimble range is a design loss

[tribal blade]

the major issue with the rotten bug is it creates a situation where you need to use more brainpower to use it correctly

[vestal escarp]

storm first with no bug would feel more natural

unless you enter dance with full cp

[alpine wraith]

would not want to storm first anyway because of premed

and DM

so not much brain power apart from a whoops

[keen dome]

I got boots, I got bracers, I got nothing from vault. Three transmitter chances, nope. Please, blizzard. I beg of thee. Deterministic prizes.

Why can't the dungeon weekly just be a deterministic item

[alpine wraith]

dont worry every week is hc chest

just praydge

[keen dome]

Every week is a dissapointment

[alpine wraith]

at least next season we will have dinar week 12+

kekw

or is it 17 i forgot

[keen dome]

An improvement going by my luck, lmao

[chrome palm]

16 💀

[alpine wraith]

yea i also will never forget i never got the spine of deathwing trinket from raid

i got the lfr one and they gave the normal one to another

then hc never dropped

[hazy breach]

The most recent post they did had no mention of the dinars

[alpine wraith]

AAAAaAAaAaAaaA

[keen dome]

I saw that too, which was.. concerning.

Hopefully they just forgot to include them. Right.......?

[alpine wraith]

it was on the post for the reputation thingies

week 16 like messer said

kinda late but oh well

[hazy breach]

Not the most recent one

Is what im saying

[alpine wraith]

oh maybe havent checked that one

but they are still on the ptr data

as items so

[keen dome]

Maybe they're coming earlier and we get more and they're reworking it all to be good and cool

[alpine wraith]

likely the intern forgot to write those down

[hazy breach]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24173073

[alpine wraith]

he is not getting milk this week

[hazy breach]

So theyre either removed or theyve been changed away from the renown track

[keen dome]

Oh, wait. Isn't this a different track?

Isn't there one general and one for the raid?

[chrome palm]

Just one track

[keen dome]

Liberation of Undermine. 11.1 will feature a new Raid-Only Renown Track aimed at providing a host of power increases over time, as well as some cosmetic rewards and improving the quality of life for raiders. This Renown is earned exclusively through completing the raid

Complete Side Gigs for the different Cartels to put you on the track to earning Valorstones, Profession recipes, Crests, and other rewards like a new mount—The Topskimmer Special—at Renown 19 from Renown Quartermaster Smaks Topskimmer and a new title— "The Explosive"—at Renown 20.

So there should be two.

[hazy breach]

Ye maybe

[keen dome]

That's how I'm reading it, since one is exclusively raid, and the other is the zone

First quote is from: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/111-raid-renown-feature-preview-and-context/2045483 for context

It also has radically different rewards, so this furthers my confidence in saying that there's just two tracks. One is the typical zone one and one is purely the raid

[chrome palm]

That does seem to be the case

[lilac stag]

yeah i thought the raid was a completly seperate track

[bleak wind]

tbf this tier its just queen that is a little bit of pad, everything else is just boss damage, and we kinda don't have much add damage so I was assigned to the adds anyways so I wanna say I am mostly clean this tier

[alpine wraith]

nah man broodkeepr as DS

tornado BRRRRRRRR

[void hound]

this tier is like 3 and a half bosses that are padding lol

[alpine wraith]

top boss dmg big singular focuser

same in rasha nan

ethical padding

i havent tried to pad on bloodbound horror but if tank is fast you can snag 4 targets to bp with boss marked too

[twilit phoenix]

Yeah idk how you can pad ads on rash this late in the season

Without outright asking people not to hit them

They just die insta to ret paladins and woyers

[bleak wind]

you can do it in alt runs if your guild is doing them

[alpine wraith]

there is a reason that boss is disbaled kinda

you can also spawn extra adds

[bleak wind]

but rasha'nan and brood are not on all stars so it doesn't matter

[twilit phoenix]

Based

[upper rock]

what would be the best embelishments for m+ content?

[lilac stag]

Doesn’t really matter

Vers, Ascension both fine and overall minimal

[keen dome]

I like Ascension

[upper rock]

what ascension?

[lilac stag]

Darkmoon

They’re all shit basically

[upper rock]

oooh okok, and that on both daggers?

[keen dome]

Nah, just one.

And then you run the patch to buff it

[upper rock]

thanks a lot

🙂

[keen dome]

Like Scath says though they're all whatever

Run whichever you personally think is the most fun sounding or sim them

[slate lantern]

vamos

[keen dome]

grabby hands

[upper rock]

authority of the depths as enchant? is that right?

[hazy breach]

Generally no. Its technically like 0.1-0.2% better on pure ST

But id just recommend radiant power

[twilit phoenix]

Is writing armor band the one that buffs it?

[upper narwhal]

yes buffs the ascention thingy

[clever delta]

With that change we blades before sectech again right

[hazy breach]

Shouldnt matter if you do it before or after really

As long as you do it after the strike its fine

[clever delta]

Parsing on queen as sub is actually cringe isn't it

Like gotta sectech those critters

[violet monolith]

Is fazed only usefull for the rogue itself? or does it also affect other people in raid for parrys? it says you on the ability though so i guess only for me?

[solemn creek]

Parsing on queen is actually cringe isn't it

there fixed it

[clever delta]

You can do fine as assa tho with just blasting boss

As sub adds are only way

[hazy breach]

The 5% is only for the rogue. The parry removal should only be for the rogue but currently works for everyone

[violet monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/pjjfanbase-gif-21393231

[twilit phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/macaquinho-gif-17267953830504704456

[limber folio]

so is it trickster or deathstalker for sub ST raid

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker should be marginally better for pure ST

[limber folio]

ok

[lilac stag]

More raid dps getting rid of parry. Don’t give in to DS

[void hound]

yep

its hard padding in p3

[limber folio]

wait wtf

3 charges of SoD

🤨

[haughty mural]

?

[vale pine]

thats what i am going by

[vale pine]

yes, the flexibility is rly nice

[limber folio]

just gonna have to re-figure out sub

SL s1 sadge

[lilac stag]

Shocking a spec has changed over 3 expansions.

[limber folio]

yes

ofcourse

its shocking

[lilac stag]

more shocking news. Assa is the aoe spec.

[limber folio]

i just wanna go back to bfa

DfA sub

them making it a pvp talent is just abyssmal

[lilac stag]

I don’t think you want to go back to bfa chief

[limber folio]

you cant tell me what i want and dont want

[lilac stag]

Bfa classic will be here soon enough for you

[limber folio]

nah id rather have bfa legion first

when outlaw was the most fun

well in bfa too

[vale pine]

you basically play around secret now

so you 2x symbols, 2x secret and 2x dance every 1 min 30

[limber folio]

also why have they discoloured flagg

[vale pine]

and in between align cooldowns around secret cooldown

[vale pine]

so you don't know if you are skilled into it or not ^^

[limber folio]

yes

pogga

[vale pine]

no reason else

i made a colored version of the icons

#subtlety message

[limber folio]

even this is more purple

than in game

theres literally no colour grade on the ability

only gray and black

and white

[vale pine]

thats why i added color to them in the edit

[limber folio]

well ive got a bunch of trinkets to use, but what to even use tho

i figured transmitter and contract seemed best

[lilac stag]

Transmitter + x

[vale pine]

any of the frist row is fine

[lilac stag]

Who knows what ilvl they are though. Just sim

[vale pine]

but as scath mentioned, you rly want to get transmitter

trinket is our absolute best

[limber folio]

well

all of the 4 on the top row

are 639

[narrow night]

even the delve trinket?

[slate lantern]

pogger hax

[limber folio]

ah no

[lilac stag]

Haxor

[upper narwhal]

why do u have 3 crystals and 2 skardyn's tho

[limber folio]

i wish

[vale pine]

[limber folio]

i dont think ive ever gotten a single heroic dagger trinket tho

[twilit phoenix]

The delve one?

[limber folio]

yea

[twilit phoenix]

That trinket is based

Still using a 619 one on my surv hunter since it sims so high

[leaden prairie]

wait

what does flag look

like

[leaden prairie]

ah ye

thats indeed bad

i like the purple one

[vale pine]

purple looks more sub like

also it was just me not liking the icon saturation and just creating a colored version to fix it

back in october when it was changed ^^

[alpine wraith]

yea i also remember someone making a cool one too

i saved it but i forgot to use it

[left ledge]

i made a purple flag

imma have to find it though

[vale pine]

i think i replaced my one with the purple one

and completely forgot i did so

[left ledge]

ah it was based on old flag icon

[alpine wraith]

yea old one was better

[vale pine]

oh, interessting

[crude cloak]

hey guys does sub have abetter damage profile for mplus than outlaw

im kinda struggling to do more than geared tanks

[hazy breach]

I think youre moreso asking about damage in general and not specifically the profile. But yes sub is strong in m+

[crystal bone]

think outlaw is a bit of a meme atm. sub/sin are doin work, sin outperforming sub slightly

[hazy breach]

Outlaw is typically harder to play, but outlaw plays exactly the same regardless of what youre doing

Whereas sub has a lot of stuff dependant on when you pop your cooldowns

[crude cloak]

okay is it okay in raid also?

[hazy breach]

So if you hold onto your cooldowns for too long or dont use them well as sub you'll do very low damage yes

In raid all 3 rogue specs are superb

[crystal bone]

^

[hazy breach]

Like all 3 specs are in the top 10

So just play whatever you prefer

[crude cloak]

okay. i just am struggling in 10s to do damage as outlaw.

im just watching ret pallys and legit any other class kill me on pacs

[leaden prairie]

10s is kinda outlaw playground tho

[vale pine]

sub is more fun tho

[lilac stag]

Check in #outlaw for help? Likely a gameplay issue. 10s you should be blasting

[vale pine]

(def. not opinionated from a subtlety enthusiast)

[leaden prairie]

now that rs is fixed

you are allowed to say sub is fun

[vale pine]

it is not fixed on live tho

only on ptr

[crude cloak]

thanks dude

[leaden prairie]

ye but soon

[vale pine]

™️

[hazy breach]

Once they fix the sub tier set its very likely well be doing enhance level bursts

But then we do 0 damage until next dance so

[void hound]

real shit?

[lilac stag]

Nerfed one week into patch. Enhanced will go untouched.

[void hound]

🦆 🚬

[slate lantern]

he do be boofin

[crystal bone]

is it weird that instead of making an enhance as my first alt i want to make a 2nd rogue and have them be sub only?

[void hound]

no i have 3 rogues

[lilac stag]

Yes it’s weird unless you’re echo, liquid or method.

but that’s ok

Be weird. Embrace it.

[leaden prairie]

tbf in st sub already kidna does enhance levle of burst

unless they high roll

[crystal bone]

based

[hazy breach]

If they didnt have any tempest banked sure ye

Ig without bl/pi we do tbf

Just always see shamans with PI in keys

[leaden prairie]

why do you not ping eleem

you know thats toxic

[lilac stag]

Agreed

[narrow night]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[crystal bone]

not pinging zac is def toxic

@leaden prairie

[lilac stag]

[crystal bone]

still using ur WA pack btw zac

for all 3 specs

[leaden prairie]

ty for ping

[leaden prairie]

same

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/i-gotchu-gif-22729913

[hazy breach]

Idk i feel like its more toxic to ping

But ye blades working on sectech is big stonks for big burst.

Esp with +60% extra shadow damage once tier works, but i suspect that it will get toned down

[vale pine]

tl;dr: more damage during burst = more burst = good

(maybe too good, so we expect tuning at some point)

[kind bluff]

Did they fix blades and sectec?!?!

[vale pine]

yes

also as eleem reacted, we have a pin summerizing the changes

[steel zinc]

Ptr or live?

[hazy breach]

Ptr

[steel zinc]

Cool 😎

So we can just use flag Finisher blades then I guess

[hazy breach]

You'd still want to strike with premed

Thats the main reason why blades is delayed

[vale pine]

only ptr, ptr has all the nice things

[edgy zenith]

so is it actually a gain to not evis with new tier set? just spam rupture?

[kind bluff]

Niceeeeeee

[edgy zenith]

or still bugged so we have no idea?

[hazy breach]

Still bugged so no sims yet

[edgy zenith]

lmao

[hazy breach]

But probably yes

[kind bluff]

I'm just thrilled to see them touch the long standing bugs we have had

[patent crystal]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[steel zinc]

The rotation will be actually easier outside of dance.

[edgy zenith]

bro if we're tuned properly and have that degen gameplay, we're banging. downtime means nothing to us

even more than now

it is cringe though and I hope I don't have to do it

[vale pine]

we will see

there was no tuning and bugfixes might come in in the next builds

so lets keep the pitchforks in the barn for now

[crystal bone]

if u say so

[vestal escarp]

finally....

high highs low lows

took only 15 months

😭

[keen igloo]

They’ve fixed all the bugs I’m aware havoc had passed two weeks. Surely that means we’ll be next

[alpine wraith]

we got many of the important ones fixed kinda

only mark bug left and some shadowed finishers krangle

and some singular focus one not much more

[vestal escarp]

"several"

[ancient raven]

Havoc still has major bugs but they’re gradually fixing them just like for sub

[vale pine]

they are fixing bugs, which is a very good direction

so

[hollow spear]

they just have to fix tier set and make it viable for trickster

and the world is a better place

[swift tinsel]

It makes our dances very strong which is good for trickster

[deft oar]

wait i just realized you are on GPO, i was watching your team's stream when you downed queen

fellow stormrage sub gamer

[slate lantern]

yall use a plate border or something for tracking ruptures in m+?

also as im learning the spec and pretty much only doing m+ these days, should I just stick to trickster as I learn and deal with DS changes next season when we see how the dust settles?

[hazy breach]

Theres no changes for DS next season

Theres no changes whatsoever for sub really. Its pretty much only the new tier

[swift tinsel]

I use a bar color changing plater mod which works pretty well

[slate lantern]

got a link or did you just set it up yourself?

[lilac stag]

But did you watch him run pug triple rogue vault keys this week? Had one of each spec. Sub, Outlaw & Survival.

[deft oar]

i missed that one unfortunately

survival rogue do be hitting hard

[swift tinsel]

its a fork of https://wago.io/398Lv0cuq , just add the spell ID for rupture in the Constructor tab if you're familiar with plater modding. Its super easy

[lilac stag]

Yeah I love it.

[slate lantern]

familiar enough, thanks! dirty outlaw doesnt track shit so my plater game has been slackin

[swift tinsel]

quick grab from the spriest one for a guildie

Originally made the rogue one for sin to track garrote + rupture but it works the same for sub

[deft oar]

thats rough

[void hound]

[deft oar]

are you guys intentionally getting parasites to pad

[small juniper]

hows 3.3 mil still r1

[void hound]

we got a whole bunch but not intentionally

[deft oar]

thats what they all say

joking

[void hound]

my raid is notorious for sloppy mechanics

if my guys wanted to do it intentionally they would have a harder time im sure

[fallow nimbus]

i didn't believe and used a dance combo before kyveza died but could have gotten 1 sectec into flag blades, now it's just r3

[hard inlet]

hey how is sub looking in m+ in 11.1?

[alpine wraith]

no idea

[open vortex]

what is exactly bugged with the 11.1 tier set?

[alpine wraith]

does not affect shadow dmg

[open vortex]

oh, that's not ideal

[silent ruin]

Anyone else having vantus / flask / food despawn in raid

My second week in a row with this

[tepid trellis]

no rats to spawn a million parasites

or comps with fury warriors in em

[small juniper]

gg

[hazy breach]

The majority of it
2p does not buff shadowed finishers, only the phys part
The reset of the 2p is per hit, not per cast, and includes shadowed finisher hits, so a BP on 5 targets has 10 seperate 15% chances to cancel your buff (aka it falls off instantly in aoe, and about twice as often as it should on ST)
The shadow damage part does not work

[open vortex]

hmm.. all of those seem pretty important to the tier set

unfortunate

[vale pine]

rly outdpsed you there

gg

[void hound]

misplayed two globals

unluck

[vale pine]

but rly good performance

[keen hare]

is sub still a target capped spec? haven't played it since SL

[slate lantern]

do we swap the eviscerates to BP after the sectec in the multi target opener if at >5 targets?

[hazy breach]

BP is softcapped at 8

But theres extremly few spells that arent softcapped at 8 or 5, in the game as a whole

[hazy breach]

5 or more yes

[slate lantern]

thanks!

[alpine wraith]

meanwhile witness

tututut

[kind walrus]

I'm seeing in sims that symbols and sec tech are cast outside of dance at times. Is there a hard rule about this or is it just when dance is on cooldown and symbols/sec tech are not?

Playing Trickster.

[hazy breach]

When you can while still making sure you get 2 of each (sectech/symbols/dance) inside blades+flag

[kind walrus]

Lovely. Thank you!

[hazy breach]

So i would generally advise against doing it as it more often than not will scew up your cds

And doing it correctly without screwing anything up is a very minor gain

[alpine wraith]

anyone learned what did they fix with singular focus

i checked and only thing i found was first hit of sec tech working now

but i dont remember if it worked before

[hazy breach]

Ye that worked before too

Not sure what they fixed

[vestal escarp]

Code talk

[molten citrus]

i'm hoping it's related to SF locking you in combat/breaking stealth and CC

[alpine wraith]

that could also be it

[molten citrus]

i'm gonna check rq

been reporting that one since beta :|

oh shit

i think they fixed it

wait maybe not

[slate lantern]

in LE's combat logging WA, what do the ( 5 )'s mean?

[molten citrus]

i can restealth a lot longer than on live

before stealth breaks

[vale pine]

with or without subterfuge?

[molten citrus]

it's unrelated to subterfuge

[kind walrus]

Really solid advice. I was hoping I wasn't missing anything in the guides.

Thanks for the info!

[molten citrus]

now when my ruptures end, my stealth breaks

SF is still keeping me in combat, but not instantly breaking stealth

[wind canopy]

Were you hitting the five dummies in Dornagal?

[alpine wraith]

ok so they fixed like 50% of the bug

[molten citrus]

i suppose so

still need to test if it breaks CC, i'm assuming it still does

[slate lantern]

Aye, ye cracked the case

I imagine there's no numbers in that blades window we can shoot for, just that we successfully get off two buffed sectecs in the blades window correct?

[wind canopy]

More like getting two sectecs within your flag window

For this patch, your first sectec is right outside of SB (dunno if that’ll change in 11.1)

[hazy breach]

The clones (aka majority of the damage) is still inside blades

But yes until 11.1 blades do not buff sectech

[molten citrus]

okay so:
Singular Focus is still breaking CC, and breaking stealth
it just takes longer to break stealth compared to live

so whatever they changed, it didn't do much

[dry plank]

Notes said “fix some issues”. Nice job blizzard. Keep momentum

[simple garnet]

Chat is this real

[alpine wraith]

loot at pins

we found them like some days ago

but yea they are true

[short radish]

did i gaslight myself or did i read somewhere that they removed the "charge" feature from coup

because i swear i read it

and then i coup'd into the boss and almost wiped the raid on queen (we wiped later anyway)

[tepid trellis]

in 11.1 its removed

[alpine wraith]

yea that was one of the early changes

but for next patch

[short radish]

thanks

i did gaslight myself

[hazy breach]

Calling them "big buffs" is overselling it

But yes its nice to have them fixed

[wind canopy]

How much of a gain is it in the end for each of the bug fixes?

(or loss)

[hazy breach]

The rs one is kinda impossible to math out since you technically could play around it before etc

Sectech+blades is like 2% or so

So while its nice qol i wouldnt call them big buffs numerically

[wind canopy]

Yee, if it was a bigger amount, probably woulda fixed it a while back

[vestal escarp]

fix rotten fix rotten fix rotten fix rotten fix rotten fix rotten fix rotten fix rotten fix rotten

[lilac stag]

Buff Flag Buff Flag Buff Flag Buff Flag Buff Flag Buff Flag Buff Flag Buff Flag Buff Flag

[vestal escarp]

Buff Flag Buff Flag Buff Flag Buff Flag Buff Flag Buff Flag Buff Flag Buff Flag Buff Flag

(if tier set remains degenerate it wont be necessary)

[spark tusk]

Number of unique targets. In this case this means you hit 5 different enemies during the window.

[subtle bramble]

itd be more if the tier set ever works right?

[hazy breach]

Slightly yes

[slate lantern]

Thank you! Loving the pack, just trying to get to know what all the lil widgets mean while learning the spec

[spark tusk]

[tribal blade]

buff flag as in the lash damage?

[late helm]

is it valid to swap to elusiveness on a raid fight rather than use cheat?

im looking for more defensives for queen

[brisk onyx]

Queen no

normal feint is enough

[hazy breach]

More defensives fort what lmao

20% dr on evasion is not even remotely close to the power of cheat

Elusiveness doesnt make feint give 40+20%, it makes feint do 20% dr if the 40% doesnt work

But on queen the 40% already works on everything you would feint

So it does nothing for feint

[tribal blade]

cheat is vastly more superior than elusiveness on queen

[hazy breach]

Honestly should be better in some keys too

[late helm]

idk im looking for a way to live on the wrest better

on platform 2 im getting wrested then entering a portal and taking 90% of my hp bar

[tribal blade]

press feint

[late helm]

is wrest aoe damage?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[late helm]

oh

[tribal blade]

feint works on it 😉

seems strange, but it does

you can also commit cloak to that moment

[hazy breach]

Theres nothing dangerous on queen that isnt aoe

[tribal blade]

if you need it

[open vortex]

feint wrests in p1->p2, feint aoe casts in p3 if sketchy, and cloak shackles in p3

[late helm]

oh interesting

yeah i just was barely pressing fient because it didnt make sense in my head

just did a pull pressing it on alot more stuff and i was way more comfy

[worn ivy]

SB BEFORE SECH TECH

?

[tribal blade]

we wiped on queen at 4%

our fury warr died right before a gloom hatchling set in P3

that was about to be a FAT parse

[open vortex]

[late helm]

RIP

hey is there ever a time to use shuriken toss?

[forest zealot]

Im new to sub, does anyone have a good rotation that works?

[molten citrus]

not really. if you are out of range and would overcap on energy you can cast it, but you shouldn't be in that situation pretty much

[molten citrus]

check out #subtlety-faq

or

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[molten citrus]

^one of the guides

wowhead has some rotation graphics

[forest zealot]

i need to build a oneshot macro rotation

i have one for assassin

this is for PVP

[molten citrus]

ah, we have #pvp for pvp discussion

but i generally recommend against one shot macros for any spec

[slate lantern]

Coward

[molten citrus]

chill man

[slate lantern]

“Cowards die many times before their deaths;

The valiant never taste of death but once.

Of all the wonders that I yet have heard,

It seems to me most strange that men should fear;

Seeing that death, a necessary end,

Will come when it will come"

[molten citrus]

veni

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-mad-door-slam-quit-gif-22084787

[dire jolt]

trickster sub feels weird being all nimble flurry.

It's like "We'll just make them outlaw."

[wind canopy]

I mean, that's all three specs in general

Splatter is basically BF. Nimble Flurry is BF. Blade Flurry is... Wait.

[slate lantern]

Whirlwind is blade flurry

[tepid trellis]

@pliant topaz peak content

[edgy zenith]

bro how tf do I fix my Broodtwister and Silken parses? we skip last burn with pot on Silken. and Broodtwister requires the most scuffed pull

should I play Crimson Tempest on Broodtwister?

[tepid trellis]

dont think sub has crimson tempest

might be hard to do

[edgy zenith]

how is parsing on Broodtwister as Sub?

also requires cursed pull?

or?

[tepid trellis]

nah its fine

[edgy zenith]

maybe that's the strat

[tepid trellis]

as long as you know when to dance is semi free

[edgy zenith]

do you flag pull 2nd set or 1st set 3rd set?

prob pull 2nd, ye?

[tepid trellis]

yeh

[edgy zenith]

bro I don't even know if parsing is possible as Sub, those adds fucking explode

[tepid trellis]

sub dmg is frontloaded

assa is backloaded

[edgy zenith]

ye but so is our 2 Fury warriors :/

and FDK

[tepid trellis]

sectech is faster

[edgy zenith]

maybe it's a send flag slightly early to make the second sectech smack all hard angle

since I get like 2 globals max

also, I was thinking. we lost the tier set which makes sectech bang. but Shadow Blades bugfix basically just gives it back for free lmao

[tepid trellis]

i did like 3.2m few weeks ago without sweating for it, just playing normally

blades also double dips with shadow dmg stuff

so

[edgy zenith]

from new tier?

or you mean DS?

[tepid trellis]

new tier

[edgy zenith]

wait DS only gets shadow amp after blades

nvm

ye. sectech gonna hit fucking HARD

[tepid trellis]

trickster will do some obscene burst dmg next patch

[edgy zenith]

and RS bugfix. and no aids on use

kinda excited tbh

[round latch]

Do we know what of an actual % RS bug fix is

[tepid trellis]

barely anything

[edgy zenith]

yeah, nothing

just makes me not wanna die

[tepid trellis]

it happens quite rarely (where it fucks you over)

[round latch]

cool cool

[tepid trellis]

its just a detilter

[edgy zenith]

the glitchy combo point shit triggers me

[round latch]

thats for sure

[tepid trellis]

ive been fishing in lost ark for over 2 hours now

im loosing my mind

[round latch]

ild be losing my mind as well fishing between boobs and all

😂

[tepid trellis]

still have 30 more min to go

[edgy zenith]

is Lost Ark grindy?

osrs vibe?

[round latch]

AF

[tepid trellis]

you are kinda locked

[round latch]

or at least looks like it is

[tepid trellis]

with how much you can do

3 raids per week per character

[round latch]

u are basicly a roachin' farmer if u arent a whale

[tepid trellis]

1 daily boss + 1 daily dungeon

3x daily quests

[round latch]

yup

🪳

[tepid trellis]

takes me like 35min

[edgy zenith]

i thought Lost Ark was a survival crafting game

am I stupid?

[tepid trellis]

to clear the daily on all ofmy charrs

thats Ark survival

Lost ark is a KMMO

[edgy zenith]

o wtf

[pliant topaz]

lowkey banger content

[tepid trellis]

the game only has 2 redeeming qualities

the skins

and the combat

the new Gunslinger skin they gave out today

is 10/10

[tepid trellis]

cant tell me this aint 10/10

[wind canopy]

That's a pretty sick skin

[pliant topaz]

thats gorgeous what

thats soooo clean

[round latch]

💀

[tepid trellis]

ingame

[round latch]

thats one

cute babe

😂

idk how can u focus

what is this game

[tepid trellis]

the skin is free, you just need to claim it and open it on a GS

in there

[supple pawn]

Trying to make a recruitment profile on raiderio, does anyone know why it keeps removing a day when I try and list availability for the whole week?

[tepid trellis]

no clue didn't know people used raiderio for that

[hexed sluice]

Labour laws on working more than 6 days

[round latch]

welcome to Greece^^

[supple pawn]

damn fr?

[round latch]

yes fr

[supple pawn]

i guess im just incorrect for being free for more than 6 days xd

[round latch]

i work 6 dys a week,off-hours sunday

[supple pawn]

so im available all times on saturday, which day do i sacrifice xd

i think imma dump tuesday since it's reset night for me

who tf even plays on tuesday on god

[tepid trellis]

my guild does

[supple pawn]

recruit me? pushes fingies together

[tepid trellis]

my guild raids thursday, sunday, tuesday

[supple pawn]

????

WHAT AM I MISSING

FUCK THIS SHIT

[tepid trellis]

EU guild 3day wr 50

[jolly pasture]

Actual 3 day?

[tepid trellis]

3.1 if you wanna get factual xD

[jolly pasture]

Or first 3 weeks 5 day scam

[supple pawn]

i gues im just incorrect for being available any day of the week xd

[supple pawn]

3.14159..

[pliant topaz]

no shot! dude thats insane! kk claiming that shit tmrw mashallah

[tepid trellis]

yeh have to admit to the 3.1 cuz we have 2 weeks with HC on wednesday

however we do NOT enter mythic on those wednesdays

we clear hc, then we fuck off

[jolly pasture]

Respectable

[supple pawn]

damn

[tepid trellis]

id like to see how far the guild could go, if we stated doing splits

• added a 4th raid night

[barren wolf]

yeah idk we need hc week

i liked hc week so much...

[tepid trellis]

i like it cuz its chill

but it hurts my guild more to have it

[barren wolf]

i like it cause i hate hc sweating

[tepid trellis]

just dont have splits

[barren wolf]

on the clock hc gaming

[tepid trellis]

then there is no sweating xD

[barren wolf]

thats a good point

no thanks i like having 4pc first week guaranteed

[supple pawn]

how do yall like

[barren wolf]

too bad thats the only loot i get

[supple pawn]

find a guild tho

[tepid trellis]

gonna say the same now with your 0.3% 4p

[tepid trellis]

wowprog and send apps

[barren wolf]

idk have been in the same one for 4-5 years couldnt tell you

i need to quit this shitass game

[tepid trellis]

i joined current guild end of SL

i just apped

[supple pawn]

I been trying but no one wants me :<

[tepid trellis]

cuz got asked if i was interested in applying

cuz i knew their other rogue

[barren wolf]

well how do your logs look like

i joined my first mythic guild with hc logs only 0 previous experience