subtlety

[vale pine]

I think good animations would help too

[lilac stag]

Dev payroll to a spec with 20k players. Or same dev payroll to a spec with 200 players. Where is management putting payroll?

[hazy breach]

Thats not what im suggesting

[vale pine]

The problem Subtlety has is a very old one, e.g. the same happened in legion too.
Rogue specs always have one dominant one, and the population spreads between the 3 depending on that

[lilac stag]

If there’s no actual goal to increase the playrate you’re not getting payroll

Niche or not

[subtle bramble]

i think thats just the nature of 3 dps classes, but rogue specs dont have the same things that set them apart compared to hunter or mage

[vale pine]

e.g. if you look at legion or bfa, anyone that did not play assassiantion was a outliner, given that there ended up little reason to branch out from the spec (talking about raiding mostly)

[haughty mural]

i think as soon as ToS patch was shipped all 3 specs had a good playerbase (with assa still dominating in that aspect)

maybe i remember it wrong

[vale pine]

We end up in the exact same situation again in TWW, you have no reason to play sub over sin in the current content so people don't

[hazy breach]

I think a lot of people would be like "damn this sub spec can crit for 16M, maybe i should try that out"

[tulip gorge]

as I said, people just gravitate towards the stronger specs

[vale pine]

yes absolutely

[subtle bramble]

not only that but I think from the outside looking in, sub seems like a much more daunting spec for most people with less pay off than assassination

[hazy breach]

Nobody goes "oh this class hits 4m+6m+6m with a button"

[tulip gorge]

tune sub to be better than assa and outlaw and everyone will play sub

[vale pine]

but reminder that sub had the damage in one hit in Legion

[subtle bramble]

so theres no reason for people to even try it outside of them just thinking its cool

[vale pine]

and people still played assassination

[lilac stag]

It very much is

[vale pine]

having a heavy hit can be appealing, but having a more difficult rotational concept is what turnes away people

and again, we now share many similarities, so e.g. being more mobile is not a point for subtlety anymore

[subtle bramble]

Im always drawn to bursty melee classes so thats the only reason I even looked at sub to begin with

[lilac stag]

Visuals would be where my money would be spent off I wanted more attention.

[vale pine]

subtleties stand out feature is having a slightly higher survivability

[tulip gorge]

and the huge movement speed during shroud

[hazy breach]

Yep sectech should have a sweet ass animation

[vale pine]

its a tougher sell than e.g. in legion:

• Better mobility
• No fall damage
• Funnel damage
• Burst damage

[molten citrus]

I agree and I feel like the only reason they don’t all hit once is to give them more “flavor” than evis

It’s just kinda unnecessary

[vale pine]

Evis was one hit, they split it for flavor reasons

[subtle bramble]

which kinda sucks because the type of person looking into rogue as a dps option for them, I imagine very few of them are considering survivability

[vale pine]

find weakness dependency was introduced at the same time

[plush roost]

Hey since they're removing the charge from coup, will it actually play the animation in melee now?

[swift tinsel]

Doubt

[plush roost]

Haven't gone on ptr to check

[lilac stag]

Doubt

The animation was tied to range

[vale pine]

It just is not a problem to solve currently, thats why

[swift tinsel]

we don't get half of our non-coup animations currently

[plush roost]

Xd

[edgy zenith]

There’s an animation on Coup? Had no idea

[vale pine]

also tuning is relevant, assassination does a lot of damage

[plush roost]

The coup animation is kinda cool

Reminds me of fury warrior rampage

[vale pine]

e.g. why if you ask where to play subtlety in raid

[tulip gorge]

I don't even notice animations, I'm too busy staring at swirlies and WAs

[swift tinsel]

you literally aren't missing anything

[vale pine]

the answer is "you can play it, but its not better on any of the fights"
meanwhile assassiantion is clearly better on e.g. ovinax or the execute fight

[plush roost]

Go use the charge in a dummy in dornogal

[sly shore]

• RUNNING ON FUCKING WATER BOIIIIIIIIIIII

[swift tinsel]

I'd give both nuts for an Edge of Night capstone to give us some execute

[vale pine]

They gave that in BfA

and i am still sad that it got cut

[swift tinsel]

Running on water or Burst of Speed return would be lovely

[vale pine]

we won't get an execute, its the niche they want assassination to fill

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, unfortunately

[sly shore]

it was in legion too?

[vale pine]

don't think so

[haughty mural]

burst of speed was just broken

[vale pine]

but maybe i missremember

[sly shore]

I didn't play in bfa and I remember running on water

in legion

[plush roost]

Give sub reverse execute, more damage from 100-70% :^)

[vale pine]

hmm maybe it was in legion already

[lilac stag]

Water was legion

[haughty mural]

water was a part of the artifact weap

[vale pine]

but this comes to my point

[plush roost]

Waterwalk was a glyph before legion too

[haughty mural]

as was the no fall dmg

[vale pine]

the things seperating specs from each other get sucessively removed

[swift tinsel]

removed in 7.0.3

[haughty mural]

okay nevermind i was wrong then

[vale pine]

and tuning is not adjusted enough to give reasons to pick up certain specs

[swift tinsel]

2016, at least the glyph

[vale pine]

maybe we will see sub/outlaw played in m+ in s2

because survivability becomes a problem

[swift tinsel]

It'll be hard to bump sin from the meta perception after s1

[vale pine]

i mean sub got buffed

and sin still is beating it

[lilac stag]

I think outlaw has a better chance of doing that right more than sub but e we shall see

[vale pine]

just my 2c about tuning

[swift tinsel]

outlaw has history on its side too

[edgy zenith]

After playing Sin for a while now, I can definitely see why people play it more than Sub. It’s just more chill

[swift tinsel]

which can play a big part in perception of a spec

[vale pine]

It is sadly something we as players have no impact on

[edgy zenith]

You’re just a chill guy pressing Envenom on Sin, not a guy calculating if you can send a dance here

[swift tinsel]

It's very funny to get the "I didn't know sub could blast so hard" messages from pugs who don't know

[sly shore]

yeah cos no one plays it

[vale pine]

e.g. i voiced my concerns about sub getting too complicated in 10.2 which was feedback that was ignored

[sly shore]

sub got more complicated with the removal of dust

which is actually so silly

cos it was already pretty complicated

[vestal escarp]

Yup

[vale pine]

It is technically more complicated

it plays easier

[sly shore]

If you played sub for ages it isn't too bad

but still

[vale pine]

but your point stands

[swift tinsel]

I don't really find it that much more complicated

[edgy zenith]

I miss dust…

[swift tinsel]

just a diff focus

[slate lantern]

im an outlaw only boi who threw on a veteran dagger and did some dungeons trying out sub last night, with my disgusting 18% haste... i was surprised with the burst lol

[tulip gorge]

I prefer current sub compared to dust

[vale pine]

if you play sub as a new player you won't do damage

[tulip gorge]

I hated dust

[edgy zenith]

3 sectechs per flag was SICK

[vale pine]

and first impression is a important factor if you want to onboard people

[tulip gorge]

desynced CDs are an abomination

[edgy zenith]

Big blast

[swift tinsel]

3 sectech dust trickster was a banger for a while

fondly missed

[edgy zenith]

Dust trickster was daaaank

[swift tinsel]

but I do like the fluidity that comes with DP

[vale pine]

i rly liked dust, but i think the current form is better overall

[swift tinsel]

having sectech be the anchor for usage of sod/dance feels way better

imo

[edgy zenith]

Just make it so SB resets CD of SecTech

[dire geyser]

maybe they just need to make blades/flag reduce sectech cd so we have our 3x sectec windows back

[edgy zenith]

Now the button feel good to press

[swift tinsel]

though I do think having static dance cd would be a better iteration

[vale pine]

I think we also have some challanges

e.g. now that we are designed around 90 secs of cooldown cycles

not having a good 90 sec trinket is a big problem

[tulip gorge]

we do have a trinket now, do we not?

[vale pine]

we do, and there is now one for the next season

[swift tinsel]

yeah, but its a mastery buff which we'll likely be hitting 20% dr so its not as impactful

with flag and s2 gear

[lilac stag]

I still think the dust removal was an over-reaction. Should have adjusted CDR where it would have made sense vs the perceived chaos you had with dust.

I don’t mind the supercharger stuff but the CDR base spec issues still very apparent with DS gameplay.

[dire geyser]

how strong is house of cards compared to transmitter, and how long will we be sticking with it lmao

err sticking with transmitter

[vale pine]

good enough to drop transmitter at one point

[tulip gorge]

time to get some crit vers gear

[vale pine]

because of item level

[swift tinsel]

Agreed, it makes the valley between the two feel really, really bad

[dire geyser]

its gonna feel wierd losing the minigame tied to transmitter it makes you feel giga goated when you pull it off but dogshit sometimes too xd

[swift tinsel]

I'm not going to miss it at all, I do not like those kinds of trinkets

[edgy zenith]

Think one of the main reasons people don’t like Sub is your main CD Shadow Blades doesn’t feel impactful. You already generate full combo points in dance anyway basically. On Sin DM makes you have more energy on an energy starved spec, AR obviously for Outlaw, and for Sub the button that changes your gameplay the most is dance, not your big CD Shadow Blades. Kinda odd for most people I think

Shadow Blades needs a rework of some sort I think

[leaden prairie]

idk

dm doesnt do much either

[swift tinsel]

Flag and blades kinda enable each other though

[leaden prairie]

like in aoe do you even notice dm

[swift tinsel]

so it's hard to look at one without the other

[vale pine]

It is in the end what it is, blizz works in mysterious ways and the dev team likely views the game and spec standing in different ways. Even if you ask in different channels, people see the state of sub probably way more positive or are happy that sub is not played.

[swift tinsel]

Flag give more finisher damage, blades gives more finishers

[edgy zenith]

On God have never played Sin in AoE, unless you count Broodtwister

But idk DM feels like it gives more energy in raid anyway

[tulip gorge]

nah I love current shadowblades

[haughty mural]

imagine combining flag and blades

[edgy zenith]

I think this is the answer

[swift tinsel]

you always do so they might as well

[crystal bone]

do u guys macro flag with blades anyway?

[haughty mural]

[vale pine]

nope

[haughty mural]

no

[round latch]

[edgy zenith]

Just bake SB into Flag, people will like the button more

[lilac stag]

Yep. Same as not wanting to touch outlaw.

[dire geyser]

you blades after first sectec in flag no lmao

[edgy zenith]

People like hitting one button and popping the fuck off

[dire geyser]

honestly i'd rather they combine both buttons and their duration rather than making blades 20s again

[swift tinsel]

16 second flag plz

[crystal bone]

is there a reason for popping it all at once in aoe opener?

i notice u hold blades in st opener until after sectec

[haughty mural]

why not both

[dire geyser]

HOLY if only

[vale pine]

Damage plays a central role too, people often flock to a spec because its overtuned.
A good example is Sv hunter, the reason we saw the BOMBA memes.
And for this xpac/beta obviousely assassiantion in aoe/dungeons.

[dire geyser]

honestly im really happy with how sub is tuning wise esp with how unpopular this spec is in the general community

[lilac stag]

SV needed that level of tuning to get people to swap to it.

[haughty mural]

anyone mentioned bombs ?

[dire geyser]

just feels like a cozy comfy sleeper spec to blast with

[lilac stag]

And it was just a 2 button WA spec

[vale pine]

sub does great damage in raid, mythic+ also decent enough

the spec is competitive

and does not play like shit

so better than a lot of times historically

[lilac stag]

The rework since, to me, is nice. And the qol iteration are improvements.

[stiff stirrup]

Decent in m+ compared to meta specs or other rogue specs

[swift tinsel]

Give me bug fixes and updated/working visuals and sub is pretty amazing

[stiff stirrup]

Kinda bored of assa and was looking to regear into sub till patch launches

[round latch]

Avatar Button,make sht baseline passive and synchronize them timings naturally.First sectech buffs the next up to 3 times 10=>20=>30%

[swift tinsel]

Then they can start looking at fixing spec tree once more of the bugs are fixed so they dont just add more to the pile

[vale pine]

well i am not the one to judge it, but if you invite people to your mythic+ run how likely is it that you look for a sub rogue if you search for a rogue?

[edgy zenith]

Ooooo I don’t hate the idea of like a full moon type beat with SecTech

[round latch]

3 times might be alot though assuming we can back to back sectech

[vale pine]

subtlety can compete in damage to a degree, might not compete with the absolute best but you can run higher keys on it just fine

[round latch]

the 3rd sectech could make nagasaki look like a sneeze

[swift tinsel]

Just keep stacking 10% every time you use it, uncapped

there's our execute

2nd cooldown window is ramping orbital strikes

gimme Death Star sub

[dire geyser]

next 13 min boss fight gonna go CRAZY

[swift tinsel]

oo or make it per hit

since they wanna keep splitting our damage events

[round latch]

last sectech will oneshot the boss

[swift tinsel]

I'm down

[edgy zenith]

I like the idea of building towards a final hit on Sub. Which is why I love SecTech now since 2nd SecTech bangs, but most people don’t notice it’s different. Adding something that makes the ability “different” will make more people feel the feeling knowledgeable Sub players get

[dire geyser]

bro what if once we go past 10 stacks it just starts counting as a seperate fucking entity on logs 😭 and it doesnt count as our dmg gg

[swift tinsel]

Akaari's Soul says hello

[round latch]

bruh

buff akaari's

echo dmg

[swift tinsel]

I miss her

[round latch]

me too

[dire geyser]

400% damage buff but now it is intentionally not counted as our damage on logs 💀

[round latch]

(not my ex)

[swift tinsel]

I could honestly see it

and she BP's at 400% effectiveness with each finisher

Jokes aside, I am happy that at least some of our bugs have been addressed, and I hope with the few weeks that are left that we see more

[hollow spear]

From a damage perspective, House of Cards will probably noticeably nerf our ceiling, but also significantly buff our floor.

[hexed sluice]

We can dinar the house of cards right?

[hazy breach]

Well yes

But the dinar-esque item isnt available until week 17

[vale pine]

week 17

[vestal escarp]

[hazy breach]

Which for nerubar palace would be around new-years

[lucid lily]

How many raiders will I have lost by week 17 to burnout?

[hazy breach]

Ig they said you could get to 2 on the first week, so it would be week 16

But still

[hexed sluice]

Honestly fine by it

I still havent seena single heroic transmitter

[lucid lily]

We had the same problem with spymaster’s

[hexed sluice]

My raids one transmitter dropped our first kill when I was healing for an absence

but zero on my rogue

Still huffing the copium that maybe the heroic timewalking boxes will take pity

Cause im assuming we still use it until we get a House of Cards

[twilit phoenix]

They should just put raid items in the wow shop

Smh my head

[vale pine]

i think it fits into the system design of wow, rewards like this are assumed to be too powerful to be given out in a reasonable timeframe. It just sucks as a player because delaying it so long defeats the purpose

[hollow spear]

There should be a system that let's you trade in a mythic item for a heroic item of the same slot in the first 6-8 weeks and from then on you can trade mythic for mythic

[vale pine]

I think there are many good ideas

but most ideas give you as a player more agency over loot and shorten the gear farm cycle

[keen dome]

Hopefully this trial run of the renown tied determinism has enough feedback they not only keep it as an evergreen each season, but reduce the time to getting it to be more reasonable.

[vale pine]

both don't work well if your aim is to keep people engaged

[keen dome]

I've got the solution.

[hollow spear]

That all wouldn't be as much of an issue if there wasn't such a canyon between trinkets

[keen dome]

Mandatory pet battle AP grind.

[vale pine]

haha

[hollow spear]

Transmitter and spymasters are just omega op

[vale pine]

true

[keen dome]

Yeah, absolutely. Or, other additional ssytems of bad luck protection

[alpine wraith]

in the grand scheme they are not super op

[vale pine]

but having strong trinkets makes them exciting

[alpine wraith]

but they are noticeable enough

[vale pine]

if all of them are just passive and simialr value

[keen dome]

Because I need just point at my 20 Ky'veza kills on Heroic where only two trinkets have ever dropped. It is not good.

[hexed sluice]

Finally a reason to do pet battle acheivements

[vale pine]

you lose the chase after a gear piece

[hollow spear]

Idk, transmitter was a 60k upgrade for me

Feels pretty canyon-y

[vale pine]

e.g. igestalt, how many times did you kill heroic to get the trinket

and how likely would it be to go heroic if you had the trinket lets say week 2 already

[keen dome]

I am a terrible example because I like to raid so I would keep pugging it weekly

[vale pine]

haha

[keen dome]

But, hypothetically, you are correct that once you lose the chase items you are less likely to engage with the content.

[vale pine]

[hollow spear]

I pug to get better/create muscle memory

But many ppl just quit once they have their items

[swift tinsel]

idk I engage with raid content to play with my friends

[keen dome]

I killed queen on heroic week 2. I didn't kill her again until week.. uh. I dunno. 14? 15? Because the rewards from killing her versus the effort needed were massive

[hollow spear]

You have friends? I only have pugs

[swift tinsel]

get aotc, 4/8 mythic then chill til we stop

[hollow spear]

I don't like m+

[vale pine]

a interssting thing season 2 df showed tho

[hollow spear]

So raiding is all I have haha

[vale pine]

was that many people engage more with content if the gear chase is faster

becasue they play more alts

[keen dome]

But, like - I think two months is a reasonable mark for a deterministic token. So week 6 or 7 giving it to you. Lot of rention, but the carrot to keep you going until then.

[swift tinsel]

I've been super casual about m+, this was the first season I got any portals

[keen dome]

100%, yeah. That metric is super interesting

[vale pine]

if people are having fun

then they play more

wild, isn't it

[keen dome]

shocking

[void hound]

S2 df was too fast with how quick you could gear
This season is striking a better middle ground

[keen dome]

It's why I'm pleased about a lot of the S2 changes - not becaue they're good design (they are, but that's immaterial) - but because we're heading back to the DF style of design, loot accessiblity and content accessibility.

If content is easier, and more rewarding to get into, people will play it more and push harder into other content because there is less friction. The feedback cycle we saw in a lot of DF. By easier, I do not mean less challenging because challenge in WoW is very relative. But easier in the sense that it's less time consuming, less frustrating, less punishing to engage with.

Which is something we see with M+ in S1 right now where it is a lot harder for very arbitary, frustrating reasons. Both in reward and gameplay

[alpine wraith]

coral was about 23% dps things like hollow toxin and assurance were around 40%

trinkets nowadays are babies compared to the old ones

soul cap was like 30 to 40% too

[void hound]

Those are truly absurd numbers

[alpine wraith]

yea diff times

that is why in wod going from blackhand to achimonde

you could kill bosses in 10 secs with the ring pop

items were silly

but even in pandaria you had stupid strong trinkets

the lei shen one was so good they ahd to literally delete monk mastery

and warlocks

[uneven scarab]

Soul cap was cool

[swift tinsel]

Rune of Reorigination was legendary

[pearl tide]

Hi, can someone pls tell me if the finishing move with [supercharged] talent should be used at max combo points or is it like the kyrian covenant?

[uneven scarab]

Max cp ideally

it goes above max cp’s

[pearl tide]

so if i have like 3 combo + supercharge, it would be like im using 5, right?

thats nice

im some way, but i liked the kyrian, it was like a minigame inside the rotation

[uneven scarab]

i liked kyrian on outlaw alot

Didnt really enjoy it on any other spec

[pearl tide]

I've never been good at rogue in general, was a healer main for so long, and a mage before that

but i really like the visuals of sub

This season and s2 i'll try to stay on rogue

[twilit phoenix]

Soul cap was the shit haha

[uneven scarab]

Subs in a good spot rn

Staying that way too

[uneven scarab]

That trink owned man

want more stuff like that

[vale pine]

I have a hard time knowing whats reasonable tbh.
Not getting the item you need for weeks always feels bad

[vale pine]

worked rly good with the design back then, unsure if it would with current raid design

random proc sounds not great if you have damage at very specific parts of the rotation

[hazy breach]

Moreso that all the other trinkets suck

[hollow spear]

True

[twilit phoenix]

True

[hollow spear]

I took the ovinax trinket over contract because it simmed better

Worst decision I've made in s1

[twilit phoenix]

F

[hazy breach]

By dragonflight standards transmitter isnt even noteworthy

[twilit phoenix]

Enjoy ur new WA

[hollow spear]

Now I'm playing with a 606 bell instead

[alpine wraith]

egg is fine

[viscid ocean]

yo lads

when i war grim and transmitter

do i use grim or transmitter while flag?

guess transmitter with flag and grim without flag right?

so i dont have to delay flag

[hazy breach]

If grim is skardyn then i'd suggest you replace that

But yes you line up transmitter with flag and blades

Can go buy the vrykul lantern from siren isle for basicaly free and it will be much better than skardyn

[ember hound]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[edgy zenith]

actually? myth track Skardyn better though?

[alpine wraith]

if you already have transmitter no

[lucid lily]

I took a myth track skardyn back at the beginning of the season so I could upgrade my transmitter for free

[alpine wraith]

nice

[lilac stag]

Our rogue still doesn’t have transmitter. Using a heroic skardyns

[edgy zenith]

ahh, so talking double on-use, gotcha

[sage pond]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

[lilac stag]

[keen dome]

Another week, another Heroic Ky'veza without a drop.

But I did manage to get another very low ilevel Assa rogue some daggers which is always a win.

I've taken it upon myself to always invite a low iLevel rogue to my pugs so daggers don't go to waste

One of the absolute cursed Ovi'nax pulls, too. Just complete chaos and yet it somehow died.

[twilit phoenix]

Our mythic ovi reclear ended with 0 tanks alive

I eva tanked right until boss started his movement phase

And we killed during intermission

[keen dome]

Haha, nice

[pliant topaz]

bro wow straight up cooked

we got like 14 people in discord now all playing league over wow

had like 4 people quit wow after i quit

cinema

[alpine wraith]

armin began the chain reaction

we may have lost like 20% of the sub player population

[pliant topaz]

i mean, a lot of these people playing other games are gonna play wow again when new season comes, but it was funny to see other people also leaving

i got this like 5 minutes ago shes quitting too apparently

[alpine wraith]

the set trender

beware

[pliant topaz]

trend setting stonks

[wind canopy]

[lilac stag]

Who dat?

[mint swift]

People stop playing

when there isn't much to do
Then come back when there is something to do

[lilac stag]

[pliant topaz]

shes one of our raiders

[small juniper]

becomes a cf > quits wow

name a better duo

[pliant topaz]

real af

[vale pine]

[alpine wraith]

dont worry we still have cfs in our hearts

we will never forget solo

armin the same

[small juniper]

dratnos

the goat

[pliant topaz]

i miss solo big time

[alpine wraith]

he comes back then goes away

rogue irl

[pliant topaz]

but ill be around im still down to TC for sub

[alpine wraith]

yea im also staying here foreveeeer

[pliant topaz]

theres like 6 of us playing lost ark too

gonna be fun

[vale pine]

i should try lost ark

[pliant topaz]

kinda seems dead ngl, but im playing with friends

so shold be fine i guess

[lilac stag]

Shadows & Shadowblades playing other classes.

Sub Rogues & Broken Shit

[swift tinsel]

Lost ark is…interesting

[alpine wraith]

every time i see stealthi chars they are so pretty thoi

they know what sells

meanwhile they nerfed alex and sylv

smh wow

[jaunty umbra]

[swift tinsel]

It’s fun with friends

Solo you just kinda…do stuff I guess

[jaunty umbra]

idk i never played with friends, only some guilds back in the day but having to do "homework" in a game is never fun

[swift tinsel]

I played a bunch back in 2022 when it hit NA and it was super fun, started playing again maybe a week or two ago solo and its been alright

a few guildies and I would do guardian raids and whatnot

[jaunty umbra]

yea I can see it still being fun if you have a premade group of friends for raids which go on their own pace

progging raids in that game is giga fun

[swift tinsel]

plus for some reason I can only do 1 chaos dungeon per day instead of 2 bc it consumes all of my aura of resonance for the first one per day

which is annoying

Also has anyone been able to check if RS was bugfixed or is ptr too laggy to confirm

[small juniper]

what u reckon

with 3 lines of changes

u think a 2+ year old bug is fixed

[swift tinsel]

they didn't list the othe bugfixes in notes

[alpine wraith]

rs is not fixed last time i checked

[swift tinsel]

ah ty

[alpine wraith]

but i may log on again this weekend

they did fix sec tech with blades at least

15 month bug SLAYED

[swift tinsel]

yeah, that and backstab FW

gotta wait for water to boil so I can hop on and check

Just did a full 5min with no refund delays

gonna do a handful more

promising

I think they might have actually done it

I've had zero cp refund delays with shadowcraft when talented into RS

need others to confirm on ptr

15 mins of combat

[wind canopy]

[swift tinsel]

Gonna go for an hour's worth of combat time

and see

[wind canopy]

If they're fixed, that'll be really nice

[swift tinsel]

also the Rupture gameplay is fucking cheeks

feels fucking awful

and sending sod/sectech with no dance is scary af

Kinda wish SoD was the no-reset condition instead of Dance

and by kinda I mean I'd greatly perfer that

[small juniper]

wouldnt need an hour

just do a normal opener and u would be able to tell easily

it consistently happens

[swift tinsel]

Need varied sample size

[small juniper]

why

[swift tinsel]

because that's how you model research

[small juniper]

if it happens once its joe over

its quite easy to replicate

just auto to 5 stacks

symbols and use a finisher

see what happens

[swift tinsel]

Which is why you need more than a sample size of 1 opener

[small juniper]

okay

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I'm 95% sure RS delay is fixed on ptr

30 openers later we're gucci

[alpine wraith]

that is so cool

[swift tinsel]

made sure there wasn't trickery with talenting in and out of it

gonna check as DS 🤮

if they fixed DN/mark bug too

[hazy breach]

They hadnt yesterday

[swift tinsel]

nah DN still doesn't consume

But RS cp delay is looking very promising

gonna go down the list and see if the snuck in anything else

also ds feels even worse than trickster outside of dance with reset

plz just make it sod dependent

also super annoying that even if a single hit of coup lands outside of dance it can reset

@hazy breach for the bug on your sheet "Nimble does not interact with shadow blades" does that mean it doesn't cleave the shadow portion?

[hazy breach]

There is no interaction

[swift tinsel]

ah, ty

[hazy breach]

It doesnt cleave, nor does nimble proc it

[swift tinsel]

Trying to make sense of 1 blades-buffed Strike having 1 strike hit, 5 Blades hits, and 4 Flurry hits

[hazy breach]

Prob melees

[swift tinsel]

on the Org dummies

ah

also didn't realize it counts wep poisons

also shadow rupture portion of RS is only 17%

[tribal blade]

GONG HEI FAT CHOI

happy chinese new year

[oak idol]

Subtelty rogue isn't real

It can't hurt you

[slate lantern]

is there any actually dfecent video guides to the sub rotation or just stick to the written ones

[pliant topaz]

theres guides on @hazy breach's channel

[paper helm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

i hate the fact that i still keep snd on my bars

so i can click it to farm some cdr between pulls in M+

[hardy snow]

maybe they simply needs to add SB to nimble's list

and then it becomes a problem where SB act on skills that are not intended for cleave

[tribal blade]

there's a lot of things blizz could do to make sub better

unfortunately it's just sitting here twiddling our thumbs waiting

[lilac stag]

sorry not twiddling thumbs. got to p2 on second night of prog

[tribal blade]

nice!

[cloud rover]

on da queen !?

Prophet

do you wanna hear something stupid what happened to me yesterday

[tribal blade]

what happened to you

spill the tea

[tribal blade]

the shitty part is you feel like you're speeding along in prog, but then it becomes a problem of trying to get everyone out of P1 and P2 alive

[cloud rover]

Well i tried Sub for the first time in raid

did like 5 Bosses, first 4 and kyveza

and when we were at Ovinax i switched back to Sin

and only after FOUR bosses of Sub

i forgot the Opener of Sin

Because muscle memory kicked in for Sub

[tribal blade]

lol sounds about right

[cloud rover]

Like how i can forget the sin opener i use for months !?

[tribal blade]

i also have that issue

[cloud rover]

I legit opened wowhead

[tribal blade]

i have a hard time swapping between stuff

[fallow nimbus]

Place the spells like you play sub

[tribal blade]

i find the opener for sin kind of annoying

but then again if i wasn't maining sub i imagine the opener for sub would be a nightmare lol

[fallow nimbus]

It kinda is with all the off gcd spells that are not macroed together

[cloud rover]

For Sub its more intuitive

i think

[tribal blade]

it has a lot of things you have to cast in precise sequence

with no time to think

[fallow nimbus]

We should have gotten just 2 sod charges total but inev working on builders and finishers

Other sod stuff buffed accordingly

Like 1 sod covering cds

[tribal blade]

i think 2 sod charges should be baseline

[fallow nimbus]

A fluid 30 sec gameplay loop

[tribal blade]

because it makes 0 sense to only have 1 baseline and it can't cover the entirety of our cd set

[cloud rover]

I accidentely used all 3 Stacks of Symbols

[tribal blade]

that's a massive yikes

you're basically afk at that point /cry

[cloud rover]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

i've had that situation happen where i've accidently used 2 sod charges

by fat fingering

and then i can immediately see the ripple effect across my entire rotation

[cloud rover]

But is it just me, or is Sub rn very straightforward

[fallow nimbus]

The sod macro is essential

[cloud rover]

or is this a Deathstalker thing

[tribal blade]

i think it's more straightforward than before, but it's still somewhat complicated

[fallow nimbus]

Once you know yes, else no

[tribal blade]

you're still juggling a whole bunch of cds that are desynced and refresh at different rates

and you can't send them on cd

[fallow nimbus]

The core every wow player has is that cds are used on cd

But sub isn't that way

[tribal blade]

whenever i play my warrior it feels so chill

you just press buttons as they come up

and you're fine

also the order you press them isn't as important

[fallow nimbus]

Imagine you tell someone that never touched rogue he has to hold a 30sec dmg amp cd

[cloud rover]

WEll isnt that "weird to me" but prolly because i also played in amidrassil

so im kinda used to it

[tribal blade]

yeah exactly, if you're an existing sub rogue it feels chill now

but for anyone newer to it it's still not simple

dude having to look at the cd of dance, sectec, symbols, symbols charges and remaining cd of flag+blades to decide what to do next

i think that's the part that's melting people's brains

[cloud rover]

Idk i kind of looked at the Shadowblades CD

[tribal blade]

they removed the difficulty of flag+blades being desynced which makes things MUCH simpler, but then added symbols charges which adds difficulty again

[cloud rover]

at 60 seconds and 30 seconds i used SD SOD

I looked at a log of eleem, and saw he used SD SOD like every 30 Seconds

so i just took the SB CD as timer

when to use my stuff

worked for me

[tribal blade]

yeah it works, but then you have the situation of needing to hold stuff for next cd set

and you can't just dance+symbols every 30 seconds or else you screw up cdr or charges before next cd set

so it takes some micro managing to know when you can either dry symbols+sectec or just sectec before next cd set

i think maybe i had more difficulty than most getting used to that

it would be awesome if they just made dance a flat cd and sectec became the only spell with cdr

[fallow nimbus]

And all that is different between trickster and DS

Also more cdr when adds are present, so different again

Forgot to pot at ovinax and probably could have gotten r1

[vale pine]

[wispy ridge]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[wispy ridge]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Bugs - Subtlety Rogue

[wispy ridge]

What is the fix for Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not working?

I have

#showtooltip Secret Technique
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique

But when hitting the macro, it says spell not learnt

[rocky ocean]

the fix is to learn the spell you're welcome

[alpine wraith]

relog

if you played fatebound it krangles

[grand wyvern]

poe leaking

[subtle jay]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns.
The following macros are an exception:yaml /cast Cold Blood /cast Secret Technique

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[hollow patio]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[cursive vapor]

what macro is better dance with tea or shiv with tea?

[alpine wraith]

we dont really use tea as sub

[barren wolf]

shiv on sub

[glad raven]

sub on shiv

[tidal python]

[tulip gorge]

What if you have to dispel an enrage

[barren wolf]

then you tea too i guess

[lilac stag]

You probably need tea for shiv since a dps slut won’t shiv during dance and you won’t have energy out of dance.

[subtle jay]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility > Critical Strike > Haste

[tribal blade]

redesign tea because nobody likes it

remove nature amp on shiv on sin

put it on a new button for sin

put shiv back down to 10 sec cd

there i just fixed a whole bunch of problems

[hazy breach]

Its not much of a problem though tbf

[tribal blade]

true it's minor things, but it's always bothered me how needlessly complicated they made the spell shiv

and how it completely screws with the utility aspect because they attached it with power on 1 spec

sin also has no keybinds, so it wouldn't be the end of the world to give them 1 more

[lilac stag]

Imagine tranq shot as a dps gain and a dispell. Shiv is dumb on assa as an amp.

[vestal escarp]

When there was toxic blade waaa too many keybinds

Toxic blades gets removed waaa too few keybinds

[vestal escarp]

Yeah not to talk that sub played almost a year with feign death as its major offensive cd

[lilac stag]

Just let utility be utility. they don’t need to be cute with it.

[hazy breach]

Vanish has pretty much never been utility though

[vestal escarp]

They probably have some weird audit system on abilities

And when players dont press one at all some weird development mechanisms start

[lilac stag]

Stealth utility vs an enrage dispell are slightly different buckets. Folks have argued vanish being a dps cd esp on assa is bad for seemingly ever.

blizzard and stealth based gameplay have a lot of opportunities

[vestal escarp]

Except seasons when all party was nelfs

I guess

[lilac stag]

Instead of 20 year old stealth mechanics

[hazy breach]

I meant that vanish has pretty much always been a dps cd

So saying "go back to when it was only utility" is kinda weird since thats very very rarely been the case

[alpine wraith]

yea it was even stronger before

than even with dust

because remember dance didnt use to have all these amps etc

[hazy breach]

Right now its pretty much the weakest its ever been for sub

[alpine wraith]

but getting FW up was huge

or extending it further

remember SoO tier set was literally chance of getting your backstab converted into ambush

then i dont remember the other bonus

and for WoD you had the OG deadly shadows

in cata you had super dance and also the rng fangs proc where you wanted to get FW up on the 5 evis

in wotlk you didnt really play sub in pve but comparatively to hp pools ambush was very strong and FW was still 100%

legion well you had subterfuge and shadowstrikes

[bleak wind]

I think it was the same in sepulcher with the 1 dance builds

pretty much used it for the empowered shadowstrike

[vestal escarp]

hm oh yeah then

MA and such...

[bleak wind]

same as vault of the incarnates, you used it as a teleport for razageth pushback

[lilac stag]

You use it for roots on Queen. So it still has (situational) utility. DPS impact def down for Sub.

[haughty mural]

outside of opener

[hazy breach]

Its not massive in the opener either, it just feels way better

[lilac stag]

Even on opener it’s whatever

What Eleem said

[worn ivy]

https://tenor.com/view/fall-balance-fail-gif-7874141187447670661

[lilac stag]

Nometa not wrong on meta

[vale pine]

diffrence is not high enough tho

[lilac stag]

What’s eleem playing in his push keys?

[worn ivy]

assa

xD

imagine

[vale pine]

🇸 🇺 🇧, what else

[hazy breach]

Not playing any push keys at all

Checkmate bud

[vestal escarp]

Im reaclearing all 15s as DS

[alpine wraith]

god help you

[lilac stag]

Welcome to League

[vestal escarp]

it's not as evil as it might seem (it is)

[lilac stag]

Blink twice if you are being held hostage. We can send help

@pliant topaz we ride! @vestal escarp is in trouble.

[alpine wraith]

but at least he gets practice for season 2

[vestal escarp]

^

idk whats worse between trickster FW management or DS godawful cdr

[upper narwhal]

trick question, DS DN in AoE is much worse

[vestal escarp]

but ds can reserve some hidden treats sometimes like this

breakdown on the tree guy

[upper narwhal]

I wanna see how big the pulls were for Singular Focus to do that lmao

[vestal escarp]

zul's shadow still lingers (it doesnt)

it was first pull of mists

9t

the very little shadow evis is because DN is bugged on live

[alpine wraith]

if you used the special tech it would be even bigger

actually those kind of pulls are even better because you have at least 2 targets to kinda change from that are still big boys at least

[vestal escarp]

but SF would be spread on more guys

[sick jackal]

We play ds next season?

In keys

[pliant topaz]

🔮

[vale pine]

possible, but we probably just stick to trickster

[spark tusk]

Not a 🔮 . 🙅 DS ever

DS isn't real it can't hurt you

[vestal escarp]

for raid i'd rather unsub than play DS

esp prog

[pliant topaz]

ty LE.... my therapist said that too, but when i close my eyes, i see darkest night proccing then mark randomly dropping

its ruining my relationships. my life... idk wht to do

[dry plank]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

"replicating shadow cp refund delay does not exist, it cant hurt you"
"replicating shadow cp refund delay does not exist, it cant hurt you"

[alpine wraith]

someone was saying it was fixed

but i havent been able to log in to check

[vale pine]

on ptr

would be huge

[alpine wraith]

yea i wish too

but im not logging in today either i will check tomorrow

tbh im happy the sec tech+blades one got fixed finally

it is a surprising amount of dmg now with our power lvl and mastery

[vestal escarp]

4% sectech nerf incoming

unforch

[wind canopy]

Haptics was testing it and saying RS got fixed

[alpine wraith]

dont worry they made our finishers have double the chance to reset tier

[tulip gorge]

hallelujah

[alpine wraith]

little do they know we wont use those outside dance

unless in aoe

[tulip gorge]

I doubt they will allow that degenerate gameplay

[vestal escarp]

?

[alpine wraith]

it is not degenerate

[vestal escarp]

they're enabling it

[alpine wraith]

yea they are super enabling it

i actually like it a bit

i mean would you use a 200k evis outside dance maybe ONCE or twice

or get super dmg amp

[tulip gorge]

how is it not degenerate to not use finishers outside of dance?

[alpine wraith]

you still use rupture

and you overstimate how many cps you get outside dance by a lot

[tulip gorge]

are you going to spam rupture in single target?

[alpine wraith]

if you think it affects rotation

no but you will pool energy and cps

as god intended

[vestal escarp]

if it is, degenerate

it can nicely go down the que of the things that already are for this spec

[rocky ocean]

so the burst spec just got more burst?

and even less dps outside dance?

[swift tinsel]

and we got RS fixed

[vale pine]

yes, burst spec does burst

[swift tinsel]

also landing last hit of coup outside dance and it dropping stacks is gonna be funny

the new coup charge rage moment

[hazy breach]

I very much doubt its intended to be proccing on every hit

As that would make the set completely useless in any aoe scenarios

[swift tinsel]

I'd like to think its not intended

[pliant topaz]

so? just buff bp to comensate ez pz. oh wait bp does more than evis now hmmmm.... fuck how do i fix that? oh I know! gonna make another mage talent! right on it 🫡

[lilac stag]

Glyph for elemental lightning bolt color changes

[pliant topaz]

yeah that could fix it too

[lilac stag]

RS fixed or just lag on PTR 🤔

[swift tinsel]

Its working normally in dorn, zuldazar and org for me

getting insta-full refills every time

[hoary sun]

Do not worry the bug will be back once 11.1 goes live

[worn cape]

Another day of adds not wanting to die on Bloodbound. 🙃

[worthy pulsar]

Can rogue scientists here tell me how subtlety looking for 11.1? My wrist fkd so thinking switching spec lol

[hazy breach]

Theres been no changes to any rogue spec

So it looks exactly as it does rn

[worthy pulsar]

Cool thanks. Been away since November. Will keep an eye

[pliant topaz]

but you havent seen next weeks patchnotes yet! heard theyre huuuuuuuge

[hazy breach]

Its just a copy paste of last weeks note innit

[vale pine]

[alpine wraith]

praydge for more bugfixes

those have been big

[pliant topaz]

nah ive heard atleast 3 new mage talents

and new shaman animations

[alpine wraith]

the new warrior animations were cool

[wind canopy]

I heard the LB animation change is a nerf to one of the hero talents

[hazy breach]

Ye i was just refering to the rogue section

Or well sub specifically

[alpine wraith]

watch them nerf us because of bug fixes

like wait that is illegal you cant do dmg

also inb4 it is worth to play transmitter and house of cards at the same time and do 2 dance wait 2 dance wait 2 dance

until better passive trink

[keen dome]

[toxic knoll]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[brittle orchid]

hi hi, im getting back into sub rogue after a few seasons, does coup de grace work with the supercharger combo points?

[hazy breach]

Yes

Supercharger is just +3 cp to your next finisher

No need to be at those blue cps anymore

[alpine wraith]

yea it is way better than before

rip

but good riddance

[brittle orchid]

ty !

[wind canopy]

Bring back ER

[hazy breach]

Would rather get sent to the ER

[pliant topaz]

zac that you? LE that you?

[wind canopy]

But you hardly know ‘er!

[wind canopy]

[lucid lily]

That sounds like too realistic of a possibility, I’m both scared and excited

[slate lantern]

I was excited to pick a heroic reward for the plunderstorm thing so I can get a heroic transmitter for my outlaw boi without farming 😦

[vale pine]

can make it a outlaw skill

[slate lantern]

Does it fit more with outlaw since there are more cases you want to finish with less cps?

[vale pine]

the minigame did not work well on subtlety

the combo point generation with shadowblades, shadow techniques, etc is just not great if you want to finish on very specific combo point values

[slate lantern]

Makes sense. Loved it on outlaw as a "didn't get proc" safety but seems like it wouldn't work on sub

[small spruce]

Wonder if our tier set for sub will be fixed before live

[vale pine]

likely

[edgy zenith]

[pliant topaz]

most mentally sane wow player turned to league player

https://tenor.com/view/me-atrapaste-es-cine-its-cinema-cinema-esto-es-cine-gif-12869046600151364058

[slate lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/league-of-legends-meme-hop-on-hop-on-league-gif-27081663

[wind canopy]

Isn't that like top lane or mage matchup in mid in general?

[pliant topaz]

lowkey wouldnt know! i just play zed at this point and dodge if I get top LOL

might just put my 2ndary role jg and zed jungle whne i get it

im 72% wr in past 25 games surely challenger soon

[wind canopy]

[pliant topaz]

4/7 losses in past 25 were me getting autofilled top

[slate lantern]

I was a top main back in the day, before s1, started when urgot was first released 👴

[pliant topaz]

its time to Q up again

urgot super stonks right now

send it

[slate lantern]

Lmao never again. Got Dota pilled by the end so still watch that, but league is a happy memory of childhood

[pliant topaz]

#1113808355677442108

[slate lantern]

Even as a top main, my main gurl was anivia

Fucking loved anivia

[pliant topaz]

zeus played anivia top last night

LOL

[wind canopy]

Yeah, been seeing that all over my YT feed

[pliant topaz]

I was working from office today so went to bedge and didnt see games

gotta watch the cadreal vods today

boys, weekend starts in 5 minutes, gotta go to a yoga class then its gaming time

[wind canopy]

T1 vs. GenG tonight

[pliant topaz]

OH FUCK

SURELY

nvm its gg

we are gonna get lck faker

bros gonna forget what his Q does mid game

u need worlds faker to win vs geng

[wind canopy]

I still can't believe GenG folded so badly against them in Worlds

[pliant topaz]

nah faker worlds goes craaazy

[alpine wraith]

bro his akali was rabid

[honest saddle]

on ptr what are thoughts on how we handle the streak heading into a dance, it seems like basically the last finisher we do before a dance is just rupture everytime to avoid resetting the stacks. Other than that, I don't really know how else to gameplay the 2pc and 4pc

maybe that isn't worth, but if that isn't worth, then the tier probably has no gameplay impact

[tribal blade]

did you mean drop stacks instead of refresh stacks

[fallow nimbus]

He means avoiding dropping stacks with a flag eviscerate then dance

Instead flag rupture everytime

[alpine wraith]

think my man is heavy on the floof

you dont really drop stacks on cds

[fallow nimbus]

With dance up yes, but a finisher before that could drop them, or am i wrong?

[alpine wraith]

you dont deadass use evis before going into dance

it is like putting the fingers in the shredder and hoping you dont get hit by the blade

[honest saddle]

I mean you are gonna use an evisc at some point before the dance. It may not be the global before but its gonna happen

could be 10 seconds before

but if it resets your stacks

it wasnt worth

[alpine wraith]

i mean you say that

but i tried it on ptr and it is likely you wont

you just pool sht energy etc and do ruptures and stabs

as DS you even prep the 1 mark before dance even likely

[fallow nimbus]

And raidlead is like "go kill that add". looks at dmg when a wipe happens "why so low?"

[alpine wraith]

it would still happen anyway

a 150k evis is not going to kill that add

let me tell you

[honest saddle]

I mean not in cds, were tank dam anyway

[alpine wraith]

you will do more dmg autoing it with hunt them down with the tier buff

[honest saddle]

real and true

[alpine wraith]

than sending a noodle as evis or bp

[kind walrus]

Not at my computer to check but is macroing Shadow Dance and Shadow Strike still broken?

[alpine wraith]

yes

it does work if you press it more than once

but not as a 1 button thing

[kind walrus]

I thought so. Thank you!

[worn ivy]

Yo lowkey

deathstalker build might be better in Ara

[stiff stirrup]

Will sub stats usually always look like vers mastery top priority? With the way it’s made

Or will crit ever gain value over vers

[warm depot]

idt crit will overtake them while we use cb

[swift tinsel]

Really hope they fix DN/mark so you aren’t sitting on it and 3 stacks the whole time between dances

Also say goodbye to ever sending sectech/sod without dance unless flag has like 45-1min left on its cd lol

[idle aurora]

What’s the command to see when to shadow dance

Like the suggested timers

When to start saving for flag

[wind canopy]

I don't think we have one?

Usually just 1 charge + 40 seconds left before your CDs is when you can send iirc

[idle aurora]

These was one it gave some build at 23 seconds info or something unless I was dreaming which is possible

Is there a way just to see the diff info commands lol

[spark tusk]

no

the shorthand way is hold dance 30 sec out, sectec 20 sec out from flag

you want to be able to use 2 dance and symbols during cds.

I don't go by timing I use this and try to keep the numbers at ~1.6 on dance and 2 on symbols when outside of cds:
https://wago.io/nyidlKqRB

[idle aurora]

Perfect cause I use your weakaura ❤️

Saving this

[spark tusk]

oh if you use my pack then this is already in there

[idle aurora]

Thank you lisonna 🙂

[spark tusk]

you don't need to download that one then

np

[idle aurora]

Love the weakaura btw ❤️ best in class among all classes I have played

[pearl swan]

fuu

!spreadsheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Hard to tell since the bugs make the stacks more than twice as likely to fall off as theyre supposed to (and significantly more than twice on aoe)

[vestal relic]

those new tier set really seems on point for rogue next season

i'm so waiting for us to release bricked

[hazy breach]

Im fairly confident its gonna be mostly fixed for release

Its moreso annoying that it ended up on the ptr this way to begin with

[tulip gorge]

it is kinda crazy they still didn't change the assa tier set

[hazy breach]

But seeing as theyve fixed some decently long standing bugs this week the tier set is probably soon to follow

[hazy breach]

It doesnt proc of ticks anymore afaik

[tulip gorge]

well that's an improvement

I'm curious how much dps does the tier give now

do we know how good the sub tier is?

[hazy breach]

No

Waiting to see how it works ingame before its implemented in simc

[tepid trellis]

lets be real who wants to test stuff on ptr anyway

[hazy breach]

Ye i mean im not doing keys and stuff, i just go hit a dummy so it can be implemented in simc

Purposefully avoiding doing that stuff as its more fun to do it on release, new content that is

[tulip gorge]

who needs to pay for QA when the playerbase will test for free

[hazy breach]

That is the problem yes

[tulip gorge]

I swear Publicly traded companies are the worst thing when it comes to any product

if the company is publicly traded, it is guaranteed to sell products with shittier quality and with more cut corners

[odd knoll]

anyone has transmiter wa handy?

[sick jackal]

Does our tier set work now?

[odd knoll]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[lilac stag]

Does Cloak works? Y/N
Does Feint work? Y/N

[fallow nimbus]

Evasion works at rik reverb first crash

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/rickroll-roll-rick-never-gonna-give-you-up-never-gonna-gif-22954713

[tribal blade]

oh what did they fix

[fathom adder]

i am still in learning phase with the (for me) new sub. When i use the opener i get 5cp and the last gcd is not usable in dance anymore. should i use the finisher and then SD/symbol and further or schould i use dance asap finisher -> further? in my second dance in the opener i seem to not be able to use sectec as one of my first finishers because of the cd, it is mostly the 3rd. is that normal or a mistake on my part?

using the wowhead opener for now

[hazy breach]

#subtlety message

Allegedly RS fixed too, but its annoying for me to confirm since i have like 300 ms on ptr

[keen dome]

I'm going to believe it is fixed because that's real cool.

[tribal blade]

oh shit there's some banger fixes there

well 1

sectec benefiting from blades is very significant

[hazy breach]

Not noted there but they also fixed backstab applying fw from the front

[tribal blade]

nooOOOOO

[hazy breach]

(and included gloomblade in that fix too, so a gloomblade crit from the front wont proc it either)

[tribal blade]

positional requirements for sub incredibly cringe

why do they focus on fixing beneficial stuff before stuff that actually hurts us

btw does the shadowcraft fix bork our energy

[keen dome]

Maybe they're just working down a list of all the bugs.

Could also be a different team doing bugfixes, I guess.

[tribal blade]

if i get my rogue set up on the ptr any time soon i might be able to see considering i'm always at ~200 ms

so any time i go on ptr i either have the same or lower ms

[hazy breach]

Dont think it matters a whole lot no

[tribal blade]

awesome

nimble fix essentially means we have 5% more nimble damage during dance

so does this count as sub attention

[tulip gorge]

will this increase the number of targets before you swap to black powder?

[tribal blade]

good question

i'm guessing no, 5% isn't a big number

but who knows

but it means trickster is gonna be doing slightly better aoe during dance, so i'm all for it

[tulip gorge]

I heard they also fixed some bug with sec tech

that should be another aoe buff

[tribal blade]

blades now works with sectec

which is big

[tulip gorge]

I assume new tier also scales better in aoe

[tribal blade]

honestly no clue considering there's no consensus on how the tier is actually supposed to function yet

[swift tinsel]

I can try and get video confirmation of RS fix if that helps

Tried to test out a bunch of others from the list but they were still borked as far as I could tell

[clever delta]

no way they fixed RS after more than year

[swift tinsel]

My ms is only like 60 on ptr so it’s typically pretty stable lately

[alpine wraith]

i think it is quite likely it got fixed

[runic sequoia]

But is the coup de grace refund delay fixed too or

Because playing without RS is easy

I'll have to hop on after work today

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade did you want to do any keys today?

[lilac stag]

It still has to make it to live.

[plush roost]

Bro if they have RS bug fixed then this is a best patch of all timer

[fallow nimbus]

We will see when the patch goes live

[lilac stag]

It’s insane to even joke that a bug fix at the one year mark makes it the best patch of all time when they have done nothing with the spec compared to basically everyone else.

fuck the bar is so low for rogues.

[alpine wraith]

it is what it is but hey

they fixed 3 bugs that were haunting us

and some others that were plain annoying

i take the W

i mean when we can use a sec tech and hit for 11m getting 20% on that is kinda nice

trickster may not be as lost

[swift tinsel]

I'll gladly take this over tuning

bc that can change at any time

[tulip gorge]

was trickster lost? I thought it was the popular hero talent?

also thanks for the tip for the aoe rotation a few days ago, that has improved my gameplay

[alpine wraith]

well in the next tier basically it buffing shadow dmg

DS is quite ahead likely

[tulip gorge]

[hazy breach]

DS already ahead

[alpine wraith]

yea but not oh nooooo ahead lvl

it will be more than 5% this time i think

also actually let me try something and see if it still works

[clever delta]

which one? i wasnt around much

and what is buffing shadow dmg? tier set,

[tulip gorge]

inb4 they change the shadow damage to finisher damage

[swift tinsel]

4pc tier set

[alpine wraith]

ok nvm it doesnt work what i wanted to try

they fixed it unluck

[swift tinsel]

what were you trying out?

[alpine wraith]

secret

but it doesnt work so it w/e now

[fallow nimbus]

Would be better

[lilac stag]

They should not be a choice of either or. That’s so backwards ass.

[swift tinsel]

I'm still hoping they switch it to during sod instead of dance

[lilac stag]

Fix your damn game bliz

[swift tinsel]

we don't really need tuning though

[lilac stag]

based on what, the current live game and ptr? You know what other specs are doing on the ptr?

Live is raid log farm time. Ptr isn’t working. Tuning is still needed.

[hexed sluice]

Long as I can continue to feel like an unkillable God in world content and Max tier delves, in happy. Will be a sad day when I can't kill any elite in opener

[lilac stag]

along with fixing the game

[keen dome]

🙏

[clever delta]

its kinda funny how rogue community happy with little 😄 it just show how they shitting on us for so long 😄

[keen dome]

You can be happy with the improvement and still ask for more, too. I'm happy to see bugs being fixed, it's a good thing. But I hope they continue with it, it's nice.

[lilac stag]

exactly

https://tenor.com/view/donald-duck-please-beg-daisy-duck-heres-a-penny-gif-9204998

[clever delta]

i mean would be nice if bug was fixed year ago

not like they did not know it exist

[edgy zenith]

Shadow Blades works with sectech now?! And RS fixed?

no fucking way

20% more dam on sectech!?

that's enough for me

[keen dome]

The real reason this is the best patch ever is the DRIVE car has a horn so I can be an absolute gremlin in the zone

[alpine wraith]

hooonk

[fallow nimbus]

Honk has a debuff

[lilac stag]

Nohooonk

[silent ruin]

Does dark brew amplify all plague damage ?

[kind walrus]

When I start learning a spec I smack a dummy around for 5 minutes at a time and compare to a target dummy sim. Trouble is, I note that the sim is using Shadow Strike much more often than I feel I can when smacking a dummy.

Is there anything I might be missing in regards to making sure I squeeze every SS I can into my stealth windows?

[silent ruin]

With shadowcraft it's about 3 strikes in dance window

[kind walrus]

Got it. I'll aim for this next time I'm logged in. Thanks!

[silent ruin]

but if you dont proc shadowcraft finishers, then it's 4

• of course any weapon master procs

not sure if sim counts those procs as casts or not

[kind walrus]

This I'm unsure of. It folds it under the Shadow Strike cast but I'm not certain if it's counted in the total casts of the ability.

[hazy breach]

Yes plague damage is considered shadow (and nature for assa)

[hardy snow]

and increased by 4pc during dance?

[uneven scarab]

Should be if the 4pc even working yet