i mean it is more dmg what pad
#subtlety
alpine wraith
worn ivy
Did u watch the opener i do ? @alpine wraith
worn ivy
ye maybe elem tells me if im doing it wrong
@hazy breach brother can u watch this and telll me if im doing wrong opener
i know i missed 1 gcd on Coup
but in general
uneven scarab
Looks fine to me but i think you want cold blood on ur second sectech in opener
fallow nimbus
Coup is rng, you get 2 stacks after sectec, that means you get atleast 1 coup guaranteed inside cds
pliant topaz
i thought they fixed this in 11.0. funny af that they broke it for GB though LMFAO classic. fix the positive bug, ad a negative bug back in peak blizzard
hazy breach
They fixed it working without having the talent in 11.0
pliant topaz
oh yeah thats what htey fixed. good thing they keep making it more and more aids!
my blizzard, my devs ❤️
hazy breach
Not that it particularly matters
Its like a 0.8-1% talent
And thats including the crit
pliant topaz
its just funny that they broke it for GB
hazy breach
And if we end up preserving our tier set stacks its even less
worn ivy
I do like this SS - FLAG + (On Use) - EVIS - VANISH - SS - RUPTURE - DANCE SYMBOLS CB Sectech- Storm - BP - Evis (If coupe) otherwise BP than SS
pliant topaz
And if we end up preserving our tier set stacks its even less
speaking of tier, koji said hemight have time this weekend! so maybe we can finally play around with tier in simc
worn ivy
i forgot shadow blades
this was trickster
deathstalker is completly different im doing
maybe thats also wrong 😄
can i show?
im trying to learn tbh coz trickster iwas doing wrong all time
bleak wind
@worn ivy you could've used symbols when sec tech was on 10sec cd and then you would have your second sectech inside your transmitter as well
bleak wind
you have 2 charges of it, first one goes to bp second one to sectech
worn ivy
Trciskter = https://www.twitch.tv/lashga/clip/ElegantTardyDotterelKappa-4ejSK4Y7TuYFym5t
Deathstalker = https://www.twitch.tv/lashga/clip/AgreeableAnnoyingReindeerArgieB8-QTslzZJev25haJYj
really need to know if im doing something wrong
maybe brother @vale pine coach me for free
slate lantern
really need to know if im doing something wrong
is your life depending on it?
alpine wraith
best of luck
bleak wind
strike after the vanish is probably better as trickster and try to time your transmitter so you activate it just before your first sec tech, that is more of a thing for deathstalker since its tighter there and the thing I already mentioned about fitting your second sec tech inside the transmitter, but I guess those are more minor
slate lantern
Yes going for #1 sub rogue in M+
#1 sub rogue prob doesnt have to ask others for help! will be good enough to try out different things and see whats best amiright
slate lantern
vodka and a pentium processor, 13 fps, #1
vestal escarp
who?
worn ivy
they play like mw ele sub dk
all physical
unholy dk mw ele
sometimes warrior tank
but pala mostly
alpine wraith
like they should sub rogue power
all the buffs for us
praise
warr monk ele druid rogue ez
or enha instead of ele
and monk heals and druid boomkin idk
vestal escarp
veng
worn ivy
ele is physical bro
thats why
also range
some dungeons u need range bro to bait mechanics
vestal escarp
about three fiddy
worn ivy
you legit play on hardmode
twilit phoenix
That russian dude is cranking bro
willow pawn
do we still stack mastery/vers
worn ivy
i mean if i was playing assa i would play #1 keys right
like in BFA
but who wanna play that booring spec
i sit in que everyday 5-6hr to play 2hr
slate lantern
Don’t break an arm jerking yourself off there bro
willow pawn
i mean. If you played assa and pugging youd still be in que everyday 5-6 hrs
i dont think spec matters
twilit phoenix
Nah bro trust I can do r1 keys on my feral druid
willow pawn
i watch your stream rn
slate lantern
Nah bro trust I can do r1 keys on my feral druid
If I was playing Dev evoker id be number #1 in keys like in Cata
dry plank
nah if you play enh/aug/sub youd be doing r1 keys rn with a group
Aug does not work well with sub :)))
alpine wraith
it does fine actually they kinda pop things on cd for uptime now
just other specs are way better
baseline
worn ivy
3x DPS comps better for sub
alpine wraith
ye 3x dps for more dps buffs
worn ivy
it is trust me
alpine wraith
i wont be surprised because they suck for me always
worn ivy
3x dps
alpine wraith
im a lizarist
hazy breach
3x DPS comps better for sub
Yesnt. Its moreso that you want some solid sustained dps alongside you to offset your 0 dmg outside cds
Which enhance isnt
If you had like an outlaw/assa type spec that always had cds+aug+sub it would be fine
alpine wraith
new fire mage
alwyas in combust
just need to hit the 1 in 100 of him having a functioning brain
twilit phoenix
comBUST
sterile vessel
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
i didnt start playing yesterday brother
You disappeared too long. They think it’s your first rodeo.
alpine wraith
that will be armin when he comes back in 4 years stronger than ever
after getting 200iq from playing league
hazy breach
Not sure youre gaining IQ by playing league
lilac stag
He’s gaining the mental fortitude to deal with the shit blizzard shoves down rogue’s throat.
@pliant topaz :3
twilit phoenix
<@639956635300790285> :3
lilac stag
:3
twilit phoenix
:3
worn cape
i sit in que everyday 5-6hr to play 2hr
I thought you had a team to get your score 😮
alpine wraith
he is a man forged in struggle
lilac stag
Lashga built different.
twilit phoenix
bro is forged in the crucible of lfg
hazy breach
Or is it actually decent in keys
Sub is very solid in keys, among the best non assa/boomy/2xFrost specs
worn cape
So you are telling me, that I can become rank 1 sub rogue in Draenor by pugging? 😮
jaunty heath
So you are telling me, that I can become rank 1 sub rogue in Draenor by pugging?...
It’s like becoming rank 1 feral druid on Draenor
Yes you can
pliant topaz
Not sure youre gaining IQ by playing league
nah ive ascended. I have a better understanding of human psyche now than ever. you think league is a game of strategy and skill, but its all psychology. simply roam botlane, perma camp the enemy draven, he will afk at 7 minutes. thats how u win.
lilac stag
Sub is very solid in keys, among the best non assa/boomy/2xFrost specs
I played with my first decent boomy in keys. Holy shiet they crank.
jaunty heath
Does feral have more players nowadays than sub, and in players id mean people that do endgame content
Of course there’s millions of druids outside of that
lilac stag
Yes
pliant topaz
He’s gaining the mental fortitude to deal with the shit blizzard shoves down rog...
honestly true, my mental is stronger than ever. yesterday i had a 45 minute game where my GM toplaner went 0/12. my gm jungler was 1/14, and my masters botlane was 3/20. and we still won because i employed the most disgusting split pushing rat shit ive ever seen in my life
lilac stag
Blizzard fixing backstab in a nutshell
lilac stag
There is no hope for RS is there.
pliant topaz
i swear people should play league more
it frees you from petty things that makes you angry
you understand the meaning of life
worn cape
It’s like becoming rank 1 feral druid on Draenor
I am rank 24, after only starting 3 months ago, so you must be right 😂
hazy breach
Im just vibing playing the bazaar
alpine wraith
more people should try WC3 or SC or SC2 pvp
hazy breach
Game goes hard
swift tinsel
idek the last rogue key I ran
hazy breach
Very chill
pliant topaz
Im just vibing playing the bazaar
fuu talked to me about it too! heard its a banger
alpine wraith
i might also play it when it releases
still trellis
more people should try WC3 or SC or SC2 pvp
man i suck ass at sc2 pvp
alpine wraith
everyone does but the most sweaty people
lilac stag
it frees you from petty things that makes you angry
Me playing SV right now.
still trellis
i did the story like 10 times already, but i just suck at that game 
alpine wraith
2 min matches
getting ran over
you have like 4 dudes and they go at you with like 50
still trellis
2 minutes into im happy to have placed a new base
vale pine
your mythic+ group looks weird
still trellis
they have 3 bases, almost at unit cap and a drop on my drones
(im exaggerating but you get it)
alpine wraith
steelcaps varus
wait rofl he also went edge of the night
should have also bough zonhya
that rat
pliant topaz
nothing helps you achieve enlightenment more than when your jungler runs in 1v5 when enemy botlane roamed for grubz while ur botlane didnt. dies 1v5. spam pings the team. instead of idk doing liteally anything else on the map like getting enemy botside jungle, dragon, covering top in case of dive litealrly anything
pliant topaz
your mythic+ group looks weird
its the meta comp trust
hazy breach
fuu talked to me about it too! heard its a banger
Its a bit like tft+slay the spire, you can just afk whenever and you dont have to scout other boards to see what you can and cant play etc. Very neat would recommend
pliant topaz
wait rofl he also went edge of the night
dude u dont understand the menace i was. they had to litearlly send 3 people to just stop my push
alpine wraith
you can even do it like multi table poker
hazy breach
Although since its beta they do sweeping balance changes every patch so its changing a fuckload
pliant topaz
like no one could match, so they couldnt end, cuz they needed litearlly 3
alpine wraith
those are the cool games tho
pliant topaz
we were 10k gold behind at 20
alpine wraith
become the irl sandman
vale pine
I got a bit bored of bazaar, i think they still figuring out the game
hazy breach
I got a bit bored of bazaar, i think they still figuring out the game
Last weeks patch made it way better than the previous patches imo.
pliant topaz
Its a bit like tft+slay the spire, you can just afk whenever and you dont have t...
might check it out! seems chill. i like tft a lot
hazy breach
But ye waiting for release could be a good idea
Should be soonish in like 2 months or so
void hound
i swear people should play league more
its a good game, im playing right now too
vale pine
Last weeks patch made it way better than the previous patches imo.
100% agree, they did remove some of the infinite nonsense, but i don't like the power progression curve atm.
e.g. the december patch did give you the highest amount of control, you had a clear idea of your strengh and when you woudl win/lose
this patch is still to a degree "hope you don't get hit by random bullshit"
hazy breach
Its me, im the random bullshit aquatic lad
alpine wraith
ah the turtler
vale pine
and the game sucessively turns into a coinflip then longer you need to play with each lose you get
alpine wraith
i saw kripp have a fun haste ray game
where he got like 4 jellyfishes and other haste thing
+beginning of combat haste
the mfer had like 2k dmg in like 1 sec
or the super inferno sword
man i love some items
hazy breach
Unfortunately every item has a 0.2s minimal icd
alpine wraith
wonder if he will upload that one it was super entertaining
hazy breach
So cant proc it more than that 
alpine wraith
i mean remember the dagger that had no icd
and you could freeze it but you still died
from leftover procs
vale pine
So cant proc it more than that <:kek:365510869557444628>
well, can i introduce you to power drill?
for some reason, it has multiple charge triggers and each one has its own icd
aquatic is also not rly random bullshit
the problem atm is there are certain too strong outliners and some unique but unfun stuff you can face
e.g. hitting level 10 gives you 3 enchants, which can vary insanely in power level. One of the NPC fights has a roughly 10% chance to give you a Overpowered skill. Multiple level ups give you skills, where you actively try to get very specific ones because they are op....
you can never be sure if you are in a good position because your enemy at any point can just completely destroy you
alpine wraith
new fort is also op
vale pine
which does not make the game bad, but i think still needs to be tuned further
alpine wraith
and funny
some enchants are super umbalanced sadly but that is part of the fun i think
vale pine
facing a pyg day 12+ means you 90% of the time lose the fight
neverless, #off-topic probably better place to discuss
hollow spear
it's not like there's any sub news to discuss
I find bazaar discussions entertaining 😄
hollow spear
biggest change we'll get
alpine wraith
fazed with nimble too
hollow spear
and tier won't be ready for 11.1 launch
pliant topaz
they fixed blades with sec tech
wait fr?
lilac stag
real
lilac stag
Don’t
pliant topaz
im not logging in but thats bigger than i thought ngl
pliant topaz
im guessing still no blades with nimble though
pliant topaz
cinema
lilac stag
The real question, will the fix be included in the distribution to live.
pliant topaz
so blades works with clones now? not just the intiial hit right?
worn ivy
do i still need mind numbing to dispell enrage?
alpine wraith
yea works with both
worn ivy
or shiv itself is enough?
alpine wraith
shiv itself
lilac stag
Shiv
hybrid prism
Do y’all use vanish as an offensive cd? I am not sure how worth it it is. I pretty much save it to negate abilities on me
It doesn’t feel necessary any more
rocky ocean
I use it to crank up my flag
pliant topaz
I personally use vanish when im trying to cosplay as devs working on rogue
uneven scarab
its useful for premed but its def better used defensively
pliant topaz
okay jokes done, meeting time
rocky ocean
World of Warcraft has begun
uneven scarab
big nose log in
hybrid prism
I should be clear, in raid
tulip glade
Hope this is the right place to ask - I’m trying to decide what melee class/spec to play next season. Right now I’m deciding between WW, havoc, UH and maybe Sub. I play around 3k IO and somewhere between 6/8 and CE. Guild had a lot of quitters this tier, so spots are pretty open (and I can’t stand Druid for another season…)
How is sub looking so far? It’s the only rogue spec that I seem to vibing with from my initial testing (havent touched rogue seriously since Vanilla/BC 😅)
Appreciate any input!
hybrid prism
Play sub I don’t even have to read. We are way cooler
rocky ocean
I agree with the above
hybrid prism
Plus honestly you can get way better info, especially on here. We have a small community but those of us that do play it have a pretty massive amount of knowledge between us. And you can just @ the dudes that write the guides and ask them questions
lunar bluff
play outlaw
uneven scarab
barren wren
Outlaw spy
molten citrus
yea works with both
hybrid prism
Shut the actual fuck up.
That is pirate propaganda
barren wren
Dude recruiting in his gambling religion
rocky ocean
Bro chose scurvy and rum 💀
hybrid prism
Prob has scurvy and it’s affecting his judgement
See we all see it
The dude is unwell
rocky ocean
Hell yeah
hybrid prism
Honestly popping our opener(when you figure it out) feels so fucking sick. Butter smooth and you feel like an absolute powerhouse
twilit phoenix
wouldn't call it butter smooth lol
lunar bluff
yeah but what about getting 5 BTEs off in your crackshot window with RP up?
alpine wraith
yea man now we only need sprint vanish back
twilit phoenix
sub opener awk af ngl
hazy breach
wouldn't call it butter smooth lol
Trickster one is imo
Unless you get unlucky and dont get coup before second sectech
twilit phoenix
i'm a certified trickster enjoyer
hazy breach
Casting your second sectech right as its ready feels good imo
lunar bluff
me when i shadowstrike flag/trinket rupture dance symbols shadowstrike boom boom BOOOM!
(is that even right)
rocky ocean
Subtlety
hybrid prism
Bop bop muthafucka
Okay I need to actually pay attention in class and take notes, I take my leave. To summarize, sub is the best, play that. Outlaw uses a bigger weapon to compensate for tiny pp.
Now.. to ancient history masters classes…. ✌️
idle aurora
Man I am still struggling with weaving in black powder lol was so much easier when it was all evisc xD
lunar bluff
black powder is bound to shift F
edgy zenith
Casting your second sectech right as its ready feels good imo
12s left on sectech, pop SoD and feel the juice
feels soooo good
or the rare 15s left on sectech with coup up
kind bluff
we still not working on ptr?
hazy breach
The tier set is still bugged yes
swift tinsel
would laugh pretty hard if they just remove that part of our 4pc instead of making it work
tulip glade
Sounds like I can safely lock in sub as an option! 👍😁
worn cape
Imagine not having a tier set in S2 😂
hardy snow
it gives 2 stacks during dance, but no shadow bonus
hazy breach
It also doesnt work on shadowed finishers
And the 15% chance to lose the stacks are calculated per hit, not per cast
Which includes shadowed finishers
So on 5 targets with bp you have 10 rolls of 15%, which is roughly a 80% chance to lose your buff
swift tinsel
And if you talent out of SF you very, very rarely reset your stacks
hardy snow
then you stack on hits either
pliant topaz
And the 15% chance to lose the stacks are calculated per hit, not per cast
my hope is this is intentional, and turns out its a dps loss to take shadowed finishers (it wont but id like to imagine)
hardy snow
but anyway, that's not a very big issue
pliant topaz
that would be cinema
hazy breach
It doesnt increase how many stacks you get
How many stacks you get is 10 rppm
Just like everything else in this game
pliant topaz
I think he means u cant lose during dance
so its only outside of dance u lose
but also kekw man
outside of dance if u have ruptures going, the tier still matters
a lot
hazy breach
Ye so you end up with like 6 stacks during your flag window and then instantly lose them
And never get any until your next flag window
hardy snow
why you lose them
swift tinsel
or you drop between dances in flag
hazy breach
swift tinsel
gonna have a big rupture icon cover my screen when not in dance
uneven scarab
Ye lemme just rupture in aoe
300k dps pov
swift tinsel
Ye lemme just rupture in aoe
intended design
hazy breach
Ideally you dont even proc DN
pliant topaz
Ye lemme just rupture in aoe
youre gonna do it in single target, why stop at aoe 
hazy breach
You swap your marks to avoid DN
hardy snow
adapt to it, i say, if that's what ended up. not optimal anyway
pliant topaz
elemefeyooh
vale pine
problem solved, just stick to trickster
hardy snow
this is like sin tier, most likely they just fix it
not a big deal to discuss or complain anyway
hazy breach
But also "yo lads here are some new tier sets, go try em out on the ptr and let us know how they feel"
"oh yeah your tier aint gonna work for the 6 weeks ptr is up"
hardy snow
it's very agile now, we're not their priority.
rogues in general look good next patch
hazy breach
Wild
cyan lava
pliant topaz
I do think that is insanely cringe and stupid of them to fix the least relevent bugs that most people wouldnt even notice that do nothing except slightly shift around your details numbers
instead of fixing bugs that make the gameplay experience worse
swift tinsel
yeah not taking on RS first was weird
pliant topaz
but hey, who am i to tell them about priorities
alpine wraith
i guess finally a proper dev got his tea break assigned to rogue
alpine wraith
and he fixed those 4 bugs in 30 mins
swift tinsel
RS is literally causing people to quit
alpine wraith
then now we wait
hardy snow
what's RS
alpine wraith
replicating shadows
pliant topaz
yeah not taking on RS first was weird
my guess, they dont know how to fix it, would take a while to figure out the b ug and fix it. what they fixed is low hanging fruit. takes like 5 min probablty
fallow nimbus
IC but bugged
alpine wraith
has an annoying bug making shadowcraft refreshes go between instant and 1.2 secs
swift tinsel
my guess, they dont know how to fix it, would take a while to figure out the b u...
Oh yeah def this is a quick "hey at least you got X" thing
hardy snow
it's very clear we dont have priority and also should not in a degree.
anything, like you said, if can be fixed in 30mins, they would just fix it some time.
and all numbers will get fixed again after week 0.
pliant topaz
"should not in a degree."
swift tinsel
bold of you to assume
hardy snow
and for RS, it is most likely they simply dont know how to fix.
it would be nice if they give UB cooldown somewhere or an event that could be monitored
swift tinsel
Like flawless form or fazed debuff?
swift tinsel
yeah, you just make a timer that counts after that hit/buff application
idk what they'd do blizzard-side to monitor that
pliant topaz
cant, because autos reset the cd
swift tinsel
Yeah, so the timer just resets
pliant topaz
and theres no event associated with the cd reset, so u cant track it
swift tinsel
LE has a WA that does just that
pliant topaz
sure but thats not the point, the timer always counts down from 20, but u dont know if a reset has happened until you press backstab
vale pine
"oh yeah your tier aint gonna work for the 6 weeks ptr is up"
tbh we are used to it ^^
pliant topaz
and see a reset has happened
he wants to know when reset has happened so u can act according to it, instead of pressing backstab and seeing reset has happened / or not
hardy snow
you cannot track UB cd if you have the talent causing your auto reset it
swift tinsel
he wants to know when reset has happened so u can act according to it, instead o...
ah, I'm just used to playing around not knowing which only really affects like...1 backstab here and there in aoe
sometimes 2
hardy snow
and waste several gcd there
swift tinsel
tbf that's between dances where our damage is kinda neglible anyways
hardy snow
how about cps?
swift tinsel
I'd argue still pretty negligible
pliant topaz
I'd argue still pretty negligible
not really.
before .5 patch
we used to bp in single target
to not consume coup
if we knew when it woulda been reset
alpine wraith
coup is big
pliant topaz
we coulda played around it
alpine wraith
i fonly flickerstrike
was not such a sack of shite
like if it reset 2 or 3 every like 30 secs or something
pliant topaz
1 more bp buff and we prob bp in st again
alpine wraith
so we could yknow PREPARE
swift tinsel
I guess I don't see having to BS once or twice in aoe as breaking cp economy
alpine wraith
like usb does
weak bridge
you just need more frenzy charges
lunar verge
man rogue/sub abbreviations are cursed or what
idle aurora
So on 5 targets with bp you have 10 rolls of 15%, which is roughly a 80% chance ...
My god…soooooo just not play around it then? Lol
vale pine
man rogue/sub abbreviations are cursed or what
its not too bad, but can get confusing if you mix between specs
a good example is ss
lunar verge
nah I just come in here and I see CP, DN, USB
vale pine
which means something entirely diffrent on all 3
alpine wraith
yea they are
lunar verge
its like the devs are doing it on purpose
vale pine
nah I just come in here and I see CP, DN, USB
USB is my favorite
universal serial bus iirc
hazy breach
My god…soooooo just not play around it then? Lol
Presumably thats a bug and not intended.
But yes you'd just ignore it
void hound
if you have to mark worms you might as well afk
otherwise its fun
especially when people get infested
so you suddenly have a ton of CDR
and you can adapt
sneak in some extra sec tec
vale pine
nicu
tulip gorge
surprised bdk is so popular
molten citrus
i think bdk is just very fun
alpine wraith
it is very strong with gear
swift tinsel
It's never really that bad, just very easy to be overshadowed
alpine wraith
same as pala
swift tinsel
Plus this is all key levels so paladin is gonna have a ton of representation no matter what
vale pine
kings of m+
raid is the same
lilac stag
Plus this is all key levels so paladin is gonna have a ton of representation no ...
It does speak to how low interest for rogue there is.
swift tinsel
patent crystal
Does tier set work in ptr yet?
swift tinsel
not the shadow damage portion
vale pine
Does tier set work in ptr yet?
to a degree, still not completely
patent crystal
surely they fix soon
pliant topaz
found @hazy breach
alpine wraith
did you people remember when they changed blades?
was it 3 years ago
or 2 and something
i remember it was s2 DF to S3 DF
pliant topaz
or 2 and something
it was like a year ago
lilac stag
Is time really going that slowly?
pliant topaz
thats the old blades though
alpine wraith
yea im counting from the next one now
barren wren
next one is new blades
alpine wraith
so 1 year and 3 months more or less
pliant topaz
yeah makes more sense
15 months
also, crazy to think this patch has been live for only 4 months
yet feels like 9
time really do be going slow when youre not having fun
alpine wraith
yea bland things do that to you
barren wren
real, this patch killed pug m+ for me
vale pine
the problem is the in between content wasn't that interessting
tepid trellis
🤝
vale pine
so it feels a lot longer
alpine wraith
wonder how many glass tables have been broken because of RS and shadowcraft things
barren wren
I still cannot time 12+ dawn cause ppl wiping on firt boss
tepid trellis
we were boosting that night
alpine wraith
rip
just needed to crit more
i cant wait next patch on any aoe fight to lose my win streak first bp i do
vs someone rnging 3 or 4 in a row
or stacking eye of kezan in 2 mins vs me on 5
barren wren
maybe you will be that someone
alpine wraith
and then wipe
tepid trellis
would have been higher if we didn't boost
tepid trellis
this was just a 6/8 run
lilac stag
What do 6/8 boosts go for these days
molten citrus
i think mount alone is down to 6m now
it's dropped quite a lot
nvm it's 5m now even
lilac stag
@molten citrus what are you mostly pvping on
molten citrus
<@629463378250956810> what are you mostly pvping on
right now nothing really, i haven't really pushed in over a month
the only thing i've q'd in the past month is rogue really
alpine wraith
notrickz going big into other games
molten citrus
but i've mostly played feral this season
feral > rogue > dk > hunter > warrior > pally
lilac stag
Pvpers upset that arns got buffed?
molten citrus
notrickz going big into other games
ye a lil ff14 and osrs here and there
molten citrus
Pvpers upset that arns got buffed?
no idea. i'm astonished they are buffing BM/arms/fury
but we'll have to see how it plays out when it goes live
lord knows if those changes were pushed on live right now things would be BAD
molten citrus
Pvpers upset that arns got buffed?
BM, Ret, Fury, Arms are the most played things in pvp
lilac stag
Pve warriors were down bad on both specs until buffs
molten citrus
i think most of those buffs should've had a "(not applied in pvp)" to them
but i know they'll do some pvp tuning the first few weeks of the season
BM right now is so good and easy
lilac stag
Assuming aura modifiers
lilac stag
Solo shuffle or?
molten citrus
yeah
shuffle and blitz make 1.8k piss easy as any class really
shuffle rating gains are just much faster
lilac stag
The ah greens better than heroic or mythic gear?
molten citrus
The ah greens better than heroic or mythic gear?
nah
they're 613 pvp ilvl
honor gear is 626 pvp ilvl
bloody token gear is 636 pvp ilvl (very easy to get too)
lilac stag
Ah. I hadn’t kept up on the scaling
molten citrus
if you're starting out with pve gear, you just need a lot of vers
and pvp trinkets
balmy thorn
What WA packs do you guys use? I have used Luxthos in the past and tried Zacs and one or two others but can't really seem to click with one
lilac stag
!wa
lilac stag
LE is lovely
balmy thorn
I've tried Devlin's which is great for outlaw
lilac stag
I modified LEs. Ultimately pick what works for you. Not what works for someone else.
balmy thorn
Yea that's what I'm trying to do. I've go so used to Luxthos' over the years but I want to steer away from his and into someone that actually makes it for rogues
Also I hate how everything he does is with a shitload of custom code which means if you want to tweak things it's virtually impossible and it also seems to run very slow because of all the custom code
lilac stag
LEs coding is very good. Fuu’s s well. Can’t speak to the others
upper narwhal
Luxthos is super easy to customise tho
I know cuz I use a heavily customised version of his pack
vale pine
In the end its personal preference
raw wadi
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
balmy thorn
Luxthos is super easy to customise tho
Yea in the custom options and a few other simple things but I've found in the past if you want to change things like fonts for specific auras and not the entire pack you're shit out of luck lol
Ok in the event that I have symbols on cd but dance is coming off cd, should I hold dance to line up with symbols?
hazy breach
Yes, and hold both of them if it would make it so you couldnt 2x dance+symbols during flag+blades
You generally need 1 charge of dance and ~40s left on your second charge when you press flag to secure it
balmy thorn
Right so it's all about fitting 2 x of those into flag window
And as for shuriken storm, my understanding is you only press it in aoe if you don't have dance up, which in that case you press SS as your builder?
Also assuming that flagellation damage is really not something to write home about on aoe but it's the mastery it provides?
slate lantern
I've tried Devlin's which is great for outlaw
But Devlins wasn't great for you for sub?
balmy thorn
But Devlins wasn't great for you for sub?
It's what I'm currently using, I don't hate it, I just feel like something could be different for sub
I'm not sure what though lol so I'll keep sticking to his for now
slate lantern
im a devlin truther for outlaw for sure so just was seeing
balmy thorn
I think for me I would prefer a larger, cleaner look for the energy/combo points bar
Similar to kierons or luxthos' but his everything else is goated
ember hound
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
idle aurora
What WA packs do you guys use? I have used Luxthos in the past and tried Zacs an...
As a brand new sub and I tried all of them I can see merits of all and I can see how some might be great when I get better but for me as a new sub player this season LE really helped me with the easy to follow tracking of dances and marks and coup and phase or whatever the backstab debuff is. I rearranged a few of the buttons so they matched my key layout
I also liked that kicks and potions didn’t pop up or weren’t around the core abilities so I could really focus on those few things vs seeing a mass of objects but I’m also colorblind red green so I need less clutter or stuff literally disappears from my vision
balmy thorn
See that's the thing I hated about LE's. The resources are so hard to follow. The colours blend in which each other and they are also hard to understand when you're at the right CPoints for spenders
idle aurora
lol see totally to each their own 😄
balmy thorn
I like Devlin's for that. I just modified his base colour for "spend now" to be white which is what I'm used to
idle aurora
For me it made the spec click and instantly made me better once I got it
balmy thorn
But I love everything else about LE's lol. I wish I could just mash them together
idle aurora
I mean you totally can
Turn off the auras you don’t like from one
And do the same for the other
You could do it in an hour or two
balmy thorn
Yea I suppose I could do that. It would mean running two packs side by side. Surely that has a performance hit no?
idle aurora
It’s putzy but VERY rewarding
Well if you turn half the pack off
It’s the same same
balmy thorn
True I could put never load and it shouldn't load those at all
idle aurora
All a pack does is hold like 89 weak auras your just cherry picking the parts you want
balmy thorn
I'm just trying to save my load times which are already like 20-30 seconds long lmao
idle aurora
Don’t get me wrong I love trying every weak aura but I usually selectively turn off off or keep one or two triggers from others I like
Sometimes people “overdo” everything they display
On the flip side you might be running elvui and that might be your entire visible display so I get it lol
thick temple
Hey sometimes my luxthos wa is green for like 5/7 or 6/7 but then when I try to BS to make it white 7/7 it like magically reaches 7/7 before the BS goes off so I essentially use bs when I am 7/7
Anyone know what's going on there, very punishing during an dance/sod window bc I'm wasting time
idle aurora
I just wish I knew why my weak aura constantly says fatality in a weird high pitched voice xD
idle aurora
Anyone know what's going on there, very punishing during an dance/sod window bc ...
Luxthos has a discord with a ton of people in there that might be a good one to mention
jaunty umbra
I just wish I knew why my weak aura constantly says fatality in a weird high pit...
you can check auras for this sound icon then look at conditions/actions
to see which one is making what sound
prisma burrow
quick question here. my cold blood , secret tech macro doesnt cast cold blood in combat. what did i do wrong? #showtooltip Secret Technique
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique
molten citrus
It looks correct
prisma burrow
is it just a combat dummy thing then?
wind canopy
quick question here. my cold blood , secret tech macro doesnt cast cold blood in...
Did you put it on your stealth bar?
pliant topaz
Did you put it on your stealth bar?
call scatch for the meme
wind canopy
lilac stag
call scatch for the meme
should be a discord sticker at this point
balmy thorn
Wait let me check mine....
In an absolute shocking twist of events, it turns out even though I have it macro'd correctly, there is something else macro'd that is using cold blood as well lmao
Now I have to find out what it is lmao
Turns out I had it macro'd to evis. I don't even know why
ebon oyster
!guide
idle aurora
you can check auras for this sound icon then look at conditions/actions
Woah thanks looking out homie!!!!
jaunty umbra
np
wind canopy
call scatch for the meme
Honestly should have this pinned
pliant topaz
Maybe a “change my mind”
Command ?
balmy thorn
How important is the "spread ruptures" part of this opener?
Like am I spreading to 4 or 5? Am I spreading to everyone even on like 10 mob pulls?
lilac stag
You spread while tank gathers and if they’ll live long enough
Rupture is a good bit of dmg
wind canopy
Maybe a “change my mind”
Command ?
tribal blade
killed kyveza as my cd's were coming up again
worst part about trying to parse as sub
lilac stag
Banger kill time for assa
spark tusk
Any changes to blade usage now that it works with sectec?
also is that fix just on ptr or is it live?
tepid trellis
Huh?
spark tusk
did I believe a lie
swift tinsel
AFAIK it’s just ptr
spark tusk
oh ok
swift tinsel
Haven’t been home yet to check retail
tepid trellis
pliant topaz
Any changes to blade usage now that it works with sectec?
prob not. but ill look into it a bit more when tiers pushed to simc
swift tinsel
Are y’all going ahead with it assuming the shadow amp isn’t working and adding it later or waiting until it is?
Out of curiosity
lilac stag
Typically it’s whatever the spell data actually does
pliant topaz
Are y’all going ahead with it assuming the shadow amp isn’t working and adding i...
no idea . whatever koji makes i guess
prob assume things work as intended
if goes live bugged, we'll adjust
fiery crater
anyone got a talent build for ptr?
molten citrus
quick question what ilvl is everything next tier
I think max is 678 so you can probably just -13 for each drop down
molten citrus
anyone got a talent build for ptr?
Afaik you can just play the same stuff as on live
tribal blade
I think max is 678 so you can probably just -13 for each drop down
cool cool ty
late helm
ember hound
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tribal blade
all my homies hate deathstalker
EXACTLy
spark tusk
You already have it
short radish
worn ivy
lilac stag
oh shit i got a good princess parse
Feeling any better?
tribal blade
Feeling any better?
still sick, but yeah feeling better 😉
btw i think i know why my parses are getting better
i've had enough time playing the new version of sub to be able to glance at the cds of dance+sectec+symbols charges and remaining flag+blades cd and make faster judgement calls on what to send
sub right now at it's core is just executing dance windows properly and using cds appropriately in between cd sets
void hound
oh shit i got a good princess parse
nice job
hollow spear
!wa
tribal blade
do i have this right, coup is not coded like evis to grant snd, yet coded like evis to p much guaranteed drop 4pc stacks if you press it outside dance
cloud rover
Bold of you to assume it was codede in the first place
rocky ocean
If (player press stuff)
} do something {
hollow spear
I am trying to move away from macroing CB to Sectec, but now that I have to think about when to press, it's getting confusing 😄
vale pine
coup is still based on the skeleton of death from above, it is why it behaves so weirdly
hollow spear
I feel like the CB in between Flag burst make it difficult to line up with the 2nd Sectec
(in the next Flag window)
hazy breach
I feel like the CB in between Flag burst make it difficult to line up with the 2...
Yes which is why you dont
Unless you can use it within like 2 seconds of it being ready
But most of the time i guess its actually fine to delay flag a bit for it, as long as you dont lose a cast. But in the sim its literally just using cb during flag
void hound
yeah there is some room to min max if you know your fight timings well
generally i find it worth it on silken/ansurek
but less so on kyveza
hazy breach
Most of the time you can use it exactly on cd though
hollow spear
So the 0,5% (?) dps improvement of using CB on the 2nd sectec even includes not using CB outside of your flag window?
hazy breach
Yes
void hound
if you use it on cd its the same
sure, i find that rarely the case in practice
alpine wraith
yea bigger hit bigger dickus
void hound
i got used to checking my cb before entering burst
lilac stag
You’re just shifting the start time
drowsy moon
What's cb
alpine wraith
cold blood
drowsy moon
Oh
alpine wraith
it is like blood but cold
void hound
well you cant
drowsy moon
Oh
void hound
max you can have is one sectec in your burst, and one between burst windows
with cb that is
drowsy moon
Hmm
cloud rover
maybe rogue soon <:HOLY:1250893440183570533>
haughty mural
Well its not like that they are actually massive
im pretty certain most wouldnt have realised them
molten citrus
the warrior ones yesterday were kinda big
that's 3 classes now that've gotten a couple animation updates this ptr
trail mantle
!stats
wicked joltBOT
The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility > Critical Strike > Haste
molten citrus
<:copium:854628182104080414>
sacred yarrow
disregard new animations
invest in hot rod vehicle parts in undermine
still trellis
the question is, do we want animations or a working spec 
cant ask for both, this isnt christmas
keen dome
Well, the spec does work. So.. ANIMATIONS
cloud rover
Well, the spec does work. So.. ANIMATIONS
Does it
lilac stag
Actual visual animations.
jaunty umbra
yes you're right its working great
sly shore
maybe rogue soon <:HOLY:1250893440183570533>
we just got new animations for flagellation silly
molten citrus
sly shore
leaden prairie
we just got new animations for flagellation silly
we did ?
keen dome
Yeah, when they changed the icon or w/e it got a new vfx
Or wait, no. When they replaced all the SL covenant effects
sly shore
exactly
lilac stag
Another very obvious rogue visual
still trellis
another?
lilac stag
Yep. Stands out like every other rogue visual except poison bomb. No one can ever see poison bomb.
keen dome
My favourite is Shadow Blades
Which, unlike it's name, does nothing to your blades
the effect is purple dark farts around your hands
Flagellations effect is actually on the weapon, but is so hard to notice.
lilac stag
as noticeable as the weapon poison visual.
keen dome
There's a poison visual?
keen dome
Sub has a giant glowing multitool if you want it.
lilac stag
Sub has a Swiss Army Kniff over their head.
keen dome
High5 Scath
alpine wraith
the coins are cool
keen dome
it's so you know who you are fighting.
alpine wraith
they even drop on the ground
keen dome
X marks the spot
alpine wraith
with the face or cross animation
lilac stag
High5 Scath
keen dome
Shadow Dance is almost a good visual. And with the elite season set, it actually looks really cool.
tribal blade
https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-walter-white-youre-goddamn-right-gif-1460075...
CRINGE
fallow nimbus
Red flag is best flag
tribal blade
i love the fact that they changed the flag icon for literally no reason
not a single rogue actually wanted it
good use of time 👍
tulip gorge
they want people to forget shadowlands existed 
vale pine
idk, the new icon is alright
cloud rover
Anticipation
vale pine
it needs a bit of color
cloud rover
For Colour you need to ask Stealthi i think
vale pine
haha^^
lilac stag
You guys …
haughty mural
that i laughed my ass of in my work chair as i read all the things 
tribal blade
For Colour you need to ask Stealthi i think
damn i actually got this joke
i think i've been in this channel for a bit now
get the camera ma, i got an inside joke
median nacelle
daily drop by to let everyone know rs bug still exists, unsquishable 🪳
if pala had a similar bug it would be fixed same week
cloud rover
if pala had a similar bug it would be fixed same week
*mage
sick jackal
daily drop by to let everyone know rs bug still exists, unsquishable 🪳
Thats not a bug its a feature now
hollow spear
ugh
tribal blade
don't worry they'll fix the parry bug
lilac stag
It broke Armin from wow completely. drove
me to swap to SV.
tribal blade
because useful bug needs to be fixed first
vale pine
XD
sick jackal
It broke Armin from wow completely. drove
me to swap to SV.
Its about to break me from wow aswell
cloud rover
because useful bug needs to be fixed first
True
vestal escarp
We're at 3 positive 2 negatives
subtle bramble
how is sub looking on ptr?
subtle bramble
W
lilac stag
lilac stag
Good broken or bugged as fuck
Just like live answers that.
vestal escarp
subtle bramble
its okay dh was the same way til the most recent ptr, now some of it sort of works
wild hornet
Just like live answers that.
Lovely
lilac stag
Yeah DH is apparently getting what little attention realz and team has for the 2 classes. 
subtle bramble
yea we can sort of test it now so itll be interesting to see, it still needs more tuning for sure tho
lilac stag
tuning would be the least of my concerns
subtle bramble
was just curious about sub cause ill probably kms if i have to play adrachi all tier
lilac stag
I’m sure they just buff BP again for sub
subtle bramble
i havent played sub since beginning of the expac, do we still not press buttons outside of dance
lilac stag
was just curious about sub cause ill probably kms if i have to play adrachi all ...
Pretty much same boat. The two classes seem very similar with how development is being handled. I needed off sub. Not going to deal with deathstalker or assa in any form with the hope of it getting fixed.
Like 4 buttons in 12 seconds outside of dance
subtle bramble
Pretty much same boat. The two classes seem very similar with how development is...
yeah i think thats a safe bet for rn, hold out for a few more hunter reworks and we'll have our time surely..
bleak wind
@hazy breach are the bugfixes for ptr or live?
vale pine
tear lists
hazy breach
<@212854714197344256> are the bugfixes for ptr or live?
ptr
subtle bramble
Like 4 buttons in 12 seconds outside of dance
so ur still like perma energy starved if u press anything?
bleak wind
lilac stag
You can’t press anything because there is no energy and even if there was they don’t do anything beside help get cdr reset
hazy breach
so ur still like perma energy starved if u press anything?
I mean it doesnt really matter if we had more energy outside dance
Like ye sure you could get a couple extra 60k backstabs
lilac stag
we do zero dmg outside of cds
subtle bramble
ya i was jw, havoc is the same way but atleast u can press ur 60k dmg buttons
lilac stag
I just finally said fuck it. I’m playing SV.
at least there are blue text updates
that aren’t just PvP nerfs
hazy breach
Fairly sure havoc does significantly more damage than sub does outside of dance
Like significantly
subtle bramble
ya it does, sub has higher peaks lower lows than havoc
lilac stag
Sub does Veng auto attack dmg outside of CDs
subtle bramble
dmg profile is kinda similar tho
tulip gorge
idk why people expect for energy classes with 1 second baseline gcd to always be casting something
lilac stag
I don’t. Best part of the spec right now, at least with trickster cdr
cloud rover
I just finally said fuck it. I’m playing SV.
I mean SV also got rid of its "meme" spec
lilac stag
still uphill battle, you could just play range. 
tulip gorge
honestly it feels great to just chill until you have to use your CDs
cloud rover
Ye but isnt seen as "haha the meme Spec" anymore
lilac stag
I’m having fun this tier if it kills me
cloud rover
its more common
lilac stag
Ye for sure
hazy breach
Like i pulled up the kyveza pull prophet mentioned. At 2:45-3:05 he is doing 410k dps, where 120k of it is the ring, 60k is his trinket and 30k is an enchant. So just the class damage for these 20 seconds is roughly 200k 
lilac stag
our RL also knows it’s good so that helps
vestal escarp
Fairly sure havoc does significantly more damage than sub does outside of dance
Havoc did no dmg otside beam-surge this season either but beam beam window > sub dance
lilac stag
How quick are beam resets these days?
subtle bramble
ya cycle of hatred is super convoluted on ptr but 20s cd when ramped
vestal escarp
Cdr on your miniburn spell just for pressing it and not for spamming stuff outside it
If only.........
lilac stag
it really is the same team working on both. 
subtle bramble
yeah... i feel like both specs are intentionally dsyfunctional
havoc definitely has an easier time though
hazy breach
Wouldnt say sub is dysfunctional, its just not very intuitive
bleak wind
Like ye sure you could get a couple extra 60k backstabs
I think its more the cdr that would do something, like getting an extra dance/sectech during the fight
lilac stag
Design by unmedicated adhd gamers
hazy breach
I think its more the cdr that would do something, like getting an extra dance/se...
ye but even then thats not nearly as strong as it sounds. But obviously it would be more damage
subtle bramble
yeah maybe unintuitive is a better way to phrase it
it might not be that much more dmg but would it feel better to play
probably right?
subtle bramble
u think so? if its just a flat cdr
bleak wind
sustained aoe would be alot better though
hazy breach
Oh ye if dance was just a flat cd it would be better imo
subtle bramble
oh ya is sub aoe still ass after they buffed black powder for the 15th time
hazy breach
I was assuming you meant infinite energy
worn cape
I’m sure they just buff BP again for sub
Blizzard: "Your tierset doesn't work so here is 400% buff to BP"
vale pine
energy is not as big of a issue due to symbols/shadowcraft
hazy breach
Idk when they try to introduce stuff to make sub easier it often ends up not really being easier. Like the removal of dust shouldve in theory made the spec easier, but that just shifted the complexity from timing your flag/blades well to timings your symbols/dances well
vale pine
think dust was harder to get a mental model for
so it is easier than before, but also still complicated
lilac stag
I honestly don’t think it gets better until they put a different team on rogue.
this one either doesn’t have time for it or just overcooks
vestal escarp
Wouldnt be so sure
Alpha hero talents for rog
Looked like they were designed by someone rather new to the class
Still, stuff is not signed so everything is subjective
lilac stag
mmhm. Maybe someone new is what the class really needs.
Clearly what is being held onto isn’t reaching mass population in fun
tulip gorge
idk if trying to please everyone is the right solution
jade urchin
mmhm. Maybe someone new is what the class really needs.
giving us something fancy like shoot frostbolts, or fireballs
lilac stag
but yeah. Nothing is signed so just mindless chatter
haughty mural
lilac stag
idk if trying to please everyone is the right solution
The playrate is abysmal. Not about pleasing everyone. About making it more enjoyable and appealing.
subtle bramble
I feel like a small team of people who play the spec would be the best way to balance instead of just 1 person but blizzard probably wouldnt do that
tulip gorge
The playrate is abysmal. Not about pleasing everyone. About making it more enjoy...
people will always gravitate towards the stronger spec
lilac stag
Assa has everything. Playrate still shit.
tulip gorge
idk why people have this obsession with play rate
haughty mural
what are you on about ?
subtle bramble
ya i dont think play rate is a good correlation to how well a spec is designed
hazy breach
Specs people enjoy have decent playrate regardless of how well their numbers are
subtle bramble
especially a spec like sub which is pretty niche
hazy breach
Specs people dont enjoy only have numbers when the numbers are high
tulip gorge
enjoyment of a spec is subjective
tulip gorge
I enjoy rogue specs very much despite it not being such a popular class
I find ret paladin and bm hunter boring
hazy breach
(like the coup dash for example)
lilac stag
enjoyment is a very important part of design, you don’t set out to design a spec to be played by nearly no one.
vale pine
(the coup dash will be removed tho)
tulip gorge
it is okay to design something for a niche segment of the playerbase
hazy breach
I genuinely think sub would be significantly more popular without any gameplay changes whatsoever if they made evis/coup/sectech all 1 hit instead of small hits
tulip gorge
not every class has to be dumbed down to the most common denominator
hazy breach
It would play the exact same way yet be way more satsifying