ye war cant use that trinket its only agi right
#subtlety
leaden prairie
lilac stag
It’s all 3
leaden prairie
okok
supple pawn
is the wowhead guide good for this class?
hazy breach
Warriors, unholy and kinda arcane/boomie
hazy breach
Theyre like 1:40
lilac stag
What does enchance fall under?
void hound
What does enchance fall under?
being broken
lilac stag
Ret and Enhance were actually broken for so long. Now they living the good life.
hollow spear
it's like someone else said earlier (maybe in the sin channel)
when enhance is OP (again), they whine about just letting them be strong this one time
rinse and repeat every patch 😄
leaden prairie
i mena
there is strong
and there is strong
i dont think you need to have enhance be doing 50% more damage than everyone else
for them to be meta
you know
hollow spear
I think the gap on PTR is even bigger than it is on live
but ok, half of the stuff isnt working
so hard to say really
lilac stag
Ptr is such a shit indication
vague oar
I like to base all my decisions on early ptr balancing tbh
lilac stag
good times
hollow spear
it's not great for sure, but enhance is the strongest spec on live and it still is on ptr
I got a feeling it might still be on top when 11.1 hits
hazy breach
Fwiw assa's funnel with the m+ spec is comparable to some of the sub iterations with combo
tribal blade
shuriken combo?
hazy breach
ye mb
keen dome
Fwiw assa's funnel with the m+ spec is comparable to some of the sub iterations ...
Yeah, I noticed that when I was reading Ass theory. It was really interesting to see how they've recreated it sort of but not.
tribal blade
i believe that was the exact sentiment that came from realz when we asked if it would ever come back
keen dome
Yeah.
tribal blade
if it's true it's more OP than combo ever was
tribal blade
because they're doing aoe while maintaining it
tribal blade
yes true it's less storm>evis haha
hollow spear
yeah the whole rupture into mut into actually funnelling
keen dome
Maybe that's their design goal where it's not applicable in every situation.
keen dome
Whereas Shuriken was applicable in every single situations that had multiple targets, no matter what, iirc.
tribal blade
i would like to see sub get it's old funneling capabilities back
the original sub rogue design
keen dome
Yeah
lilac stag
I miss sub
tribal blade
maybe with more flair than before
leaden prairie
Because you need a lot of setup
i meaan
with ic its kinda not that much different
after spreading 2/3 bleeds you are already spamming 2 button
hazy breach
It is though
leaden prairie
like sub
hazy breach
Because theres lots of situation where adds live for like 10 seconds
hollow spear
but sub doesnt care if a target dies
vague oar
Idk if this is a take but my least favorite part of sub rn is pressing flag. I don't like that button
hazy breach
And if youre gonna spec 5 seconds of that applying bleeds
hollow spear
yep
leaden prairie
ye sure
hollow spear
that's why everyone thought outlaw was op when 11.0 hit
leaden prairie
i see what you mean
hollow spear
because you can just blast right away
leaden prairie
I mean after a while you would think people learn about that
outlaw always does good in hc week in dungeons
hollow spear
imagine believing that lmao
tribal blade
Idk if this is a take but my least favorite part of sub rn is pressing flag. I d...
did you play sub during SL/
leaden prairie
yes assa wont look good when they cant even press their cds indeed !
tribal blade
?
hollow spear
happens everytime
it took like 3-4 weeks and sin was already leaving outlaw in the dust
if it was even that long haha
vague oar
did you play sub during SL/
No I played hunter for most of sl. Came back and played outlaw for s4
Venthyr outlaw in s4 sl was prob my favorite iteration of that spec
tribal blade
flag was a very different button then, it had more dopamine when you pressed it
since the flag lashes actually did damage
which target you put it on actually mattered
leaden prairie
venthyr outlaw was funnyt
tribal blade
it kinda sucks flag does literally no dam now
leaden prairie
cause a lot of people tought it meant outlaw had burst
when it litteraly still had none
tribal blade
venth outlaw with dust SHEEEEESH
one of my favorite iterations of rogue ever was playing venth outlaw dust with the DF talents
vague oar
I was there for boss dmg. I was a pillow princess while my sv and destro killed all the trash
leaden prairie
one of my favorite iterations of rogue ever was playing venth outlaw dust with t...
that shit was kinda braindead ngl
you had like 100% uptime on db
tribal blade
that shit was kinda braindead ngl
me likey braindead
leaden prairie
ye i get that
leaden prairie
not sure it would be funny for that long tho
would you like if sub was perma in blades
tribal blade
is the pack gonna live for 10 seconds? who cares, send everything
leaden prairie
surely after a while its a bit boring no ?
tribal blade
hey they kept stealing sub talents from the class tree into the spec tree
leaden prairie
no one asked for that tbf 
tribal blade
yeah universally nobody was happy about that one
i wonder if they'll do that again since it's a trend
delete something from 1 spec and give it to the other
void hound
imagine shuriken combo with trickster 😩 🌰
tribal blade
trickster would be fucking incredible with combo
leaden prairie
you mean assa then
tribal blade
target capped sin lol
void hound
assa? dont know that spec
leaden prairie
got everything
void hound
never heard of it
tribal blade
get ignored by the devs for long enough
that's your reward
sin rogues earned that shit
hazy breach
It definitely is
leaden prairie
i wish bf was softcapped lol
void hound
softcapped? how about kneecapping assa
hazy breach
8 target hard cap is more damage than 5 target soft cap until like 13 targets
vague oar
I'm not gonna say my outlaw cooks. I told Zac my outlaw cooks a few months ago and he called me an idiot
leaden prairie
well cause its 5 lol
you have plenty of shit that are softcapped at 8 also
its not really a fair comparaison
hazy breach
I mean ye but like
At 20 targets
Youll be doing like 45% more damage than at 8. Whereas without a softcap you would be doing 150% more
leaden prairie
ok and i will be doing 0% more damage
than at 8
with my hard cap
the onyl real cap
vale pine
it is why dot based damage often outdoes other scaling
leaden prairie
when you have dungeons like necrotic wake
wehn suddently if you are target capped you are useless
vale pine
having one instance where its not balanced well is fine
if you don't have one better in all cases
which was the case this xpac
but lets not go down that rabbit hole
leaden prairie
and then on the other hand theater of pain, which, if you were supposed to be "tuned properly" you would obliterate everyone then, which will never be the case
leaden prairie
having one instance where its not balanced well is fine
idk about that
outlaw litteraly does healer damage in these type of situations
lilac stag
pretty sure m+ is just an afterthought with tuning. They only really care about the bars leaving now wcl
leaden prairie
im not sure that should be the case ?
leaden prairie
pretty sure m+ is just an afterthought with tuning. They only really care about ...
i mena ye it is
vale pine
the entire topic comes down to the problem of feeling left out
lilac stag
it’s like us beating ourselves up over the issues with sub. Afterthought.
vale pine
"why does x spac do x when i am not able to"
and this is a rly big issue that just got worse by magnitudes in DF
vale pine
where the design team did suddenly give specs everything
lilac stag
mhm
leaden prairie
but also there is not being able to do everything
lilac stag
So rogue is fine
leaden prairie
and being so bad you are under tank ?
vale pine
exactly
leaden prairie
like i understand being worse than assa in big uncapped pulls
but being worse than the tank ?
idk about that
lilac stag
Our hero talents are just shit. More so than others.
We don’t have visuals to bring any non dps joy
vale pine
what you just notice is a diffrence in stance, the dev team thought assasisantion was missing all the things it now has that sets it noticable ahead
while you as a person think maybe it would have been smarter to try to spread things out between specs
there is no right or wrong, and the one benefiting from a change will always be happy about it
e.g. subtlety is now also in a better spot, even tho it only got the weaker version of BF
lilac stag
the hard part is, from a 3 spec class when is it ever “an outlaw raid”
vale pine
could have gotten the op version instead ^^
lilac stag
Where you look at warrior. This is a fury tier. This is an arms tier. Yadda
leaden prairie
the hard part is, from a 3 spec class when is it ever “an outlaw raid”
when its tuned 20% higher
wait nvm
its the case rn
and its still not an outlaw raid
vale pine
I think the idea currently is not to make the less popular specs more appealing
but make them good enough to be picked as an alternative
it does not matter if there is one thats dominant if you can at least say the others are relevant
vale pine
ofc we also don't know what will happen in the future
vale pine
subtlety is good
lilac stag
Hahah
vale pine
but only as good as sin in best case, only diffrence is survivability
vale pine
gameplay is a lot easier and fun than before
lilac stag
Rogue isn’t a good class. It lacks any actual visual representation
vale pine
you can't ask for the same treatment as the popular specs
lilac stag
It’s incomplete at best
vale pine
because blizz is heavily leaning towards popularity
so sub ofc, being the least played spec in game
tulip gorge
rogue being awful to level with doesn't help
lilac stag
Nope
vale pine
has lower attention than e.g. ret paladin or hunters
keen dome
Just gotta convince people to play Sub rogue.
tulip gorge
whenever a rogue spec gets attention ,it just gets nerfed 🙂
see assa rogue in dragonflight
hazy breach
Outlaw would still do tank levels of DPS on first pull of necrotic wake, even if it was softcapped because it just doesnt have cooldowns
Like sure it would do 25% more damage on that pull
But that assumes youre just getting the softcap without taking any hits to bladeflurry to compensate, which is unlikely
leaden prairie
why is it unlikely
tuning wise rn it wouldnt change anything
you just wouldnt be doing tank damage in nw
tulip gorge
it's not like bladeflurry is that amazing below 8 targets anyway lol
hazy breach
Im just saying y'all are vastly overestimating how much the cap matters
leaden prairie
you would still not win against anyone
leaden prairie
Im just saying y'all are vastly overestimating how much the cap matters
i mean sure
tulip gorge
they should buff it back to 60% damage
leaden prairie
but on a 5 target pack i can roughly compete
if the pack last a bit im not doing tank damage
on nw im under tank
so it does matter
worn cape
Do supercharged CP expire at some point?
hazy breach
Again, you'd be getting like 20-25% damage. Not like 60%
leaden prairie
ye and
hazy breach
Do supercharged CP expire at some point?
There is no timer no. But pulling a boss or starting a key resets it down to 2
hazy breach
ye and
Theres also just a handful of pulls across all the dungeons that are actually above 8
leaden prairie
yep
hazy breach
And most of them are 9 or 10
leaden prairie
but they are the most important pulls in the dungeon
hazy breach
Which is practically the same
tulip gorge
I think they should just rework killing spree to be a huge aoe damage button
hazy breach
Well no CD spec does less damage than specs with CDs
tulip gorge
fits with the name
leaden prairie
the onyl argument against softcapping bf i always hear is "it doesnt matter"
then ok we agree
it doesnt matter
soft cap it then
why arent we doing it
barren wolf
if there wasnt aug in the game and there was another guy to bust CDs i dont think there would be a problem
keen dome
I think they should soft cap everything instead of hardcap because hardcaps are boring.
barren wolf
rogue + shaman busting cds on same pack is big overkill
(ofc buffed by evoker, but still would be overkill)
keen dome
There's the psychology of a softcap, too. Hardcap's are just.. bad feeling. Softcaps may result in a pretty dramatic falloff, but they feel better because you still get to see numbers increase.
barren wolf
its ok @leaden prairie ww monk is softcapped at 5 and does no burst aoe
supple pawn
!guide
barren wolf
and has CDs
worn cape
There is no timer no. But pulling a boss or starting a key resets it down to 2
so if you do it prepull, will it go away or stay 2 when you pull the boss
hazy breach
2
worn cape
Is it worth doing?
tribal blade
you're basically adding an additional 6 CPs to your opener
so you're ramping your 1st flag much faster
def worth
tribal blade
haha faster
keen dome
It's free damage 
hazy breach
Ye its like 0.2% or something
keen dome
Honestly I keep forgetting to do it because I get distracted by other things pre-pull haha
tribal blade
i got in a good habit of doing it every pull
hazy breach
The real big tech that only works for farm stuff is striking and killing a critter before pull
tribal blade
couldn't figure out a WA for it so now i just do it by instinct
hazy breach
So that you have DN up on pull
keen dome
Hah
hazy breach
Because that delays your marks 1 sequence so you'll end up with supercharger on your DN by the second sectech in your opener
supple pawn
any changes for sub next pacth?
supple pawn
oh, mb
swift tinsel
Been getting at least three but no more than six resets per minute
hazy breach
And the tier set is completely dysfunctional atm so 
swift tinsel
With no Shadowed finishers its still 0-1
left ledge
It’s okay, the tier set will be fixed when it’s live. They wouldn’t let us just be bugged during actual prog
Especially not sub rogue
supple pawn
It's fine. We'll still be top damage.
i was curious to ask, how is sub doing in that regard?
and how much worse is it for deathstalker?
keen dome
For 11.1? No clue. Probably strong, probably just as good as we are now. Right now? Strong, good. Deathstalker is fine and i Believe stronger in some fights. It's just a lot less fun to play with awkwardness surrounding consuming DN for the big hit. Trickster just plays better.
hollow spear
without the transmitter shenanigans, DS might not be as cursed during Flag
keen dome
Truth, that's a very good point.
But I still dislike how cursed the CDR feels and how annoying the rotation can feel with SecTec and DN and shit.
hollow spear
I am still not great at getting the transmitter buff exactly when I hit my first sectec
yeah, it's still pretty ass
supple pawn
without the transmitter shenanigans, DS might not be as cursed during Flag
elaborate
hollow spear
it's hard to fit two sectecs into the 15 seconds of transmitter buff
so if you get the buff earlier than you should (because of the minigame) it's even more cursed
with a "I press a button" trinket you have way more control
keen dome
Deathstalker doesn't have as strong CDR as Trickster, and SecTec has a shorter cooldown as Trickster. Because of this, fitting everything into your windows is a little more fiddly and less 'fun'
hollow spear
and yeah, what @keen dome says; DS has less cool down reduction (on trickster, coup gives more CP and you have disorienting strikes giving 10% on sectec), making it harder to squeeze the 2nd sectec in
supple pawn
Also, I can't find the talent, what's causing half of my eviscerates to refund all their combo points?
swift tinsel
Shadowcraft
supple pawn
Nothing in the rotation guide notes it, and I can only find it in the opener
keen dome
supple pawn
Shadowcraft
Ah, I see thanks
Also, is it normal to have periods where I have no energy?
keen dome
And then Shadow Techniques is:
swift tinsel
Outside of cool downs, yeah
keen dome
Also, is it normal to have periods where I have no energy?
Yeah. Outside of our cooldowns we're a backstab machine.
swift tinsel
That’s intended
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
supple pawn
man I just wanna level
swift tinsel
Good luck
supple pawn
lemme spam black powder and shurikens for 1 damage >:(
keen dome
Sub is all about the 'windows'. Dance+Symbols. Blade+Flag+Dance+Symbols. we stack everything, we burst, we backstab, we burst, we backstab, we burst, we backstab, we stack everything.
If you are leveling, you can take The First Dance and you'll probably kill most things in a single dance.
supple pawn
So it's like a ramp class in that it feels horrible to play in lower level dungeons
hollow spear
rogue feels terrible in lower levels anyways
keen dome
Also you won't have any of your major kit at lower levels, haha.
So much of our power is quite late.
lilac stag
Also, is it normal to have periods where I have no energy?
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
supple pawn
Also you won't have any of your major kit at lower levels, haha.
I'm spamming TWs from 70-80 haha
swift tinsel
And that’s emphasized by most of our non capstone talents being effectively zero damage gains
supple pawn
DF survival hunter in a nutshell
NGL I'm a bit upset we have good talents now because we have so many less
Like sure RPF and SA are nice gameplay differences. But CA and SH played so much differently to each other
I'm grateful we got the S4 tier set to be S1 tbh. It was bad but it offered multiple ways to play
keen dome
Sub is all about learning some relatively unintitive rules (I.e., everything is used around SecTec), and learning to combine your major abilities. Once you have those all setup and learned, it's not a complex spec and then you'll be doing the mondo mega blast damage
supple pawn
Sub is all about learning some relatively unintitive rules (I.e., everything is ...
Is it fine in lower level content to use symbols for the energy?
keen dome
Anything is fine in lower level, non-endgame content honestly. But i'd say try to pair them together if you are above 70. Like, you wanna be hitting Symbols+Dance -> Strike -> SecTec to get into the flow for it (if trickster i forget the rotation for DS oh no)
Get into the flow and the muscle memory
But we do no damage outside of Dance because Backstab does nothing useful.
supple pawn
Also please correct me if I'm wrong but all the WA buffs I really need to make to track stuff is
Shadow Blades+Lingering Shadows (can occupy the same space)
Darkest Night
Shadow Dance (for FlagBlades because you use twice for that as far as I read?)
Also I was reading the AOE opener... It said to spread ruptures, is that trying to say what I think it means
OH and slice and dice
Forgor das oop
keen dome
You don't need to track Lingering Shadows, no. DN / Dance is good, too, yeah.
I personally track: Blades + Flag duration. Dance + Symbols duration.
supple pawn
And I guess technically rupture because I just learnt about pandemic windows
supple pawn
You don't need to track Lingering Shadows, no. DN / Dance is good, too, yeah.
Oh, I don't? But don't I use shuriken storm for lingering
supple pawn
The Wowhead guide said to line shuriken storm up with lingering shadow, no?
Sorry, shuriken tornado is it
I don't remember the name
keen dome
I'm not sure. Let me have a look because I think I might be misunderstanding.
supple pawn
Lingering darkness my apology
fathom adder
whats the trinket change i read about?
keen dome
whats the trinket change i read about?
House of Cards is now a 1:30 trinket down from 2 minutes.
fathom adder
thank you
keen dome
Lingering darkness my apology
Aha! Yeah, that makes sense. Right, I follow now. The Shadow amp after baldes falls off for DS. Yeah, I guess tracking that is a good idea. I personally never really thought about it, haha
For DS I just track mark stacks + DN and cull the witnesses and that's it.
supple pawn
Also I was reading the AOE opener... It said to spread ruptures, is that trying ...
And what of Ruptures?
lilac stag
80 
keen dome
I think it depends on the pull. But ideally, you want to spread ruptures around while the pack is being pulled together. If stuff is together, bursting is probably better. But if they're gathering: spread 'dem ruptures. You've got Replicting Shadows which will hit your main target + 1 nearby target with a rupture. So you can just quickly rupture up the entire pack.
I think the rule is: If a target is going to live longer than 15 seconds, Rupture is worth it. But never during a Dance window as there are better uses for your casts than a rupture.
keen dome
Replicating is 'smart' so it'll spread to un-ruptured targets. But it's only +1, so you are more efficently able to tab or mouse over to do it.
fathom galleon
The tab targetting sounds annoying...
@mouseover's served me well
fathom adder
is it okay for sectec to be the 2nd or 3rd finisher in your second dance in your opener or should i wait to dance until i get sectec back? maybe i am thinking to hrad about it and should just press Sd and sectec with symbolds (and dance at best) to not lose a cast and thats it
hazy breach
Its fine for it to be 2nd or third
You should send dance immediately after the first ends
Otherwise youre losing out on blades and transmitter
fathom adder
thank you
do you usually send the 3rd Sd + symbols after the 2 to chain 3 dances at the pull or do you wait a few seconds/delay it even longer until f.e. sectec is ready and canbe your first finisher inside dance again?
idk how strict those 2dances ü symbols per shadowblades/lfga should be to not walk into timing mistakes down the road?
hazy breach
Getting 2 in cds is the highest prio
sly shore
hazy breach
Afaik it doesnt
The onuse doesnt actually do anything besides locking it
So you'd use it when you want the stacks but you need to move/stand still because of mechanics
tepid trellis
you juggle it by standing still or moving
for what its worth min maxing it is kinda w/e
worn ivy
ahh i see
than prefer spyglass
not worth
i would actually play the lantern if i had champion version
alpine wraith
yea it does not share cd
tepid trellis
yeh they use effect of egg
can just be pressed w/e you cant keep the stacks (i usually do that just before sending cds when im playing it)
hollow spear
twilit phoenix
worn ivy
how big is +17k dps
tepid trellis
like what 0.3%?
at 2+mil dps
you can see that on the sim tho
0,7%
is the correct answer
tepid trellis
20-10
real panther
what can I say... That is a TRUE rogue lover xD
twilit phoenix
what can I say... That is a TRUE rogue lover xD
that guy is a gamer
vestal escarp
real panther
wait with this ovi trinket both do i need to lock at 15 ?
you are ticking every single box on rb, I think it'll leads to wrong decisions in some case (I mean, your group size is like 9 man with this setup 😄 )
foggy geode
what can I say... That is a TRUE rogue lover xD
Canatnkok 
azure mauve
can you explain me how do i use this ovinax trinket
you dont lol
fierce ivy
Transmitter + Mercurial so you can play mini-games while playing the game
lilac stag
thorny rune
Hey i have a question, why dont i get slice and dice everytime when i do eviscerate?
is there a bug or smth i dont get it
alpine wraith
it can also do no dmg if you ahve no snd randomly
thorny rune
rofl ty xd
edgy zenith
it can also do no dmg if you ahve no snd randomly
that's what that is from?
holy shit I was wondering why my Coup would do no dam sometimes in long AoE pulls
happened last night in a NW
thought I was crazy
alpine wraith
you were crazy how did you even drop snd
nani
kekw dont worry it is as weird as it seems
edgy zenith
I only press one evis on pull to apply
then we go into big bang AoE and I don't press it again bc BP
and he chained like two packs so I was perma BP
noticed it fell off like 2s ago, pressed coup and nothing happened
alpine wraith
yea but there is something called timers
it can be sad tho
bug lifes
if coup was not bugged to not give snd it would not happen anyway
edgy zenith
listen, there is a scenario where you have 1s left of SnD and Dance and 3 stacks of unseen blade, so you prio the BP as the last finisher in dance, proc unseen on next generator, then press coup and it does nothing
that definitely didn't happen
but it's possible for it to affect you even with perfect play
alpine wraith
you would actually snd in that case
idk why i still have the muscle memory of using snd at the end of pulls or beginning
but yea the 2 bugs are annoying
edgy zenith
no way losing SnD uptime for 1.5s is not worth the damage loss from evis to BP in high target counts
alpine wraith
does not help RS is also there to fuck things
i mean not worth or worth cant be really said as you need to evis when it has like 10 secs or so left
not as it is going to drop and then you choose
but if the bug didnt exist every coup would give 15 cp worth of snd from our passive
so would not be a problem ever
edgy zenith
yeeeeeah
but we're the bug spec
is current rogue the most bugged a class has ever been?
most bugged/time spent bugged
our bugs/sec number must be crazy
edgy zenith
sub is looking very good for one-armed bandit
timers for adds look like good lineups
at least from strat northern sky is using
alpine void
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
supple pawn
@mouseover's served me well
I mean tbf I was one of those fuckers in DF that did the tech for Latent Poison Injection in M+
frosty pilot
anyone cook up a sub ptr build?
supple pawn
when tf did they remove waterwalking from sprint???
supple pawn
tbf i stopped playing sub in 8.0
tribal blade
quick PSA, don't try to change ring stones in the middle of a key
you can take them out, but not put em back in
supple pawn
cursed
supple pawn
can we macro dance to symbols?
rocky ocean
You can but you still need separate symbols button
swift tinsel
Helps to have them on two binds that aren’t awkward to press together
supple pawn
here's my atrocious binds atm
swift tinsel
Having them with the same modifier is good if you’re gonna bind them that way
floral dagger
Helps to have them on two binds that aren’t awkward to press together
mw up + down 
supple pawn
mw up + down <:dracthyr_kek:1002454136706580620>
omfg
swift tinsel
I can’t do wheel binds lol I camera scroll too much
swift tinsel
That’s fine
rocky ocean
I can’t do wheel binds lol I camera scroll too much
Then add ctrl or shift
swift tinsel
Nah
I’ve had my action bar bindings the same for over a decade so I don’t really need to change now
supple pawn
anything else i could macro together?
supple pawn
alright
swift tinsel
With cdr and rng cps
hazy breach
Not really
The only time would be if youre specced into tornado. Since its so stupidly expensive
supple pawn
how would i want to play around tornado?
tepid trellis
use it just before dancing
small juniper
@tepid trellis what spec looking good next tier
i think im gna play the best spec for once instead of playing sub
is it just assa
small juniper
@hazy breach
supple pawn
do we ever use tornado in ST?
hazy breach
do we ever use tornado in ST?
You can if you know for 100000% sure that there wont be any adds coming within a minute
But it doesnt really matter much
(and you absolutely do not spec it for a pure ST scenario)
vagrant sinew
sub saved by trinket change
@hazy breach you should see stealthi in lost ark, hes all grown up now
hazy breach
Ive heard he is a large lad
hazy breach
Im just purposefully staying away from lost ark, played too much before 
vagrant sinew
hazy breach
ok guys nice <#316923898501529600> discussion
np
small juniper
wannabe
tepid trellis
<@212854714197344256> you should see stealthi in lost ark, hes all grown up now
im still tiny @hazy breach dont listen to him
rocky ocean
The sub discussion is stealthed
Together with the ptr fixes
thick temple
here's my atrocious binds atm
what yall think
tepid trellis
criminal
supple pawn
what yall think
tf is sprint
spark tusk
my sprint is ctrl mouse wheel up
barren wren
got queen's ass boys, p1 can suck it
every time I coup de grace during the pop.... what a memories \
tepid trellis
both are jail worthy
lilac stag
all hope is gone
thick temple
criminal
I thought this was a 1 2 3 4 class so I saw close range as 1 and then long range as 2 lmao
wild hornet
rocky ocean
Numbers after 5 are cursed
dry plank
what yall think
rocky ocean
them fingers be long
hollow spear
Symbols on 1?
round latch
its binding,whatever everyone feels comfortable with its fine
(i do find flag on X and stepsis on shift X distrubing though)
hollow spear
its binding,whatever everyone feels comfortable with its fine
No judging. It's just my spam button and I'd totally mess up 😅
Never played with a mmo mouse, so I also have issues understanding how you can use rotational abilities on your mouse
My brain would explode
keen dome
Give it a little memorial spot, imo
vale pine
its binding,whatever everyone feels comfortable with its fine
hand size and keyboard plays a central role for it too.
E.g. shift is very comfortable to use for me, while people with big hands might like to use control instead
dry plank
drag and drop sepsis to hell
It’s old picture from start of the season
tribal blade
It’s old picture from start of the season
cool cool 😉
alpine wraith
tribal blade
poor hacha
mint swift
Idk if they changed the rota that much next patch
But this is how I feel doin my shadow dancin
tulip gorge
Is it true that with the new tier set you have to do cringe stuff like using rupture instead of eviscerate outside of dance?
tulip gorge
I guess they will have to add rupture in the list of abilities that remove the winning streak
tribal blade
our tier set will basically be perma dropping if they added rupture to it
since how it's coded on sin how every tick has a chance to drop your stacks iirc
hollow cobalt
That sucks
supple pawn
i dont know if anyone cares but i slapped raszageth vocals onto a track i made inspired by a separate raid boss anyways hope everyone is having a good day (water and food check)
void hound
nah they were shit buttons
never trust a blue sword button as rogue
void hound
i dont know if anyone cares but i slapped raszageth vocals onto a track i made i...
thats sick
supple pawn
void hound
i could see fyrakk's lines being good too
supple pawn
Those would be fun to play around with >.>
Guess which boss this track was inspired if you'd like, it is another Dragonflight raid boss
hazy breach
I guess they will have to add rupture in the list of abilities that remove the w...
We could still SnD 
But ye no way to verify thats actually better before it actually works, so
lilac stag
Kidney Shot time.
formal helm
supple pawn
im shit mom
alpine wraith
happens
tulip gorge
since how it's coded on sin how every tick has a chance to drop your stacks iirc
I doubt that’s intended, they must fix it
supple pawn
u just need couple good lobies and u can even see 2.3-2.4
this is my main for reference
in blitz
and in shuffle
yeah no lol
round latch
in blitz
blitz though 💀
im talking about rated arenas or shuffle,which is the closest that respect rated arenas
good stuff though, 2.4 still 2.4
but if u want an analysis of ur numbers u can still do better
supple pawn
i know
round latch
ur ratio is approaching that of 50%
supple pawn
i got 2.4k in shuffle in DF as arms but that was even worse
round latch
u can still turn it around with couple of good lobies
supple pawn
u can still turn it around with couple of good lobies
i need to learn how to play sub first
im playing this shit like it's warrior
i forgot i need to play it like sub xd
round latch
im playing this shit like it's warrior
u wont learn playing sub in shuffle
ever
find a team,coordinate ur ccs,learn when ur cds are more impactful
que those 3s
shuffle is probably the lowest quality of rated pvp u can ever have
ppl mindlessly press their cds and scoobydoo
dogsht@ss gameplay without any reasoning
keen dome
ppl mindlessly press their cds and scoobydoo
i'm in this post and I don't like it 
the urge to slam every button
round latch
the urge to slam every button
im gonna say it many times over and over again
sub is extreme but it requires the proper mindset to shine
keen dome
Haha, yeah, I've been winning a lot more now I've been holding everything until I see something worthwhile happening
Unlearning the pve mindset of push cooldown
worn ivy
yo i heard ML is coming back ? https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-bfa-3/the-motherlode/world/leaderboards-strict/0
alpine wraith
yes motherlode is baack
worn ivy
any other bfa dungeon?
alpine wraith
you can check s2 dungeons let me see
ToP
seems from sl
but no more from bfa
ah wait mechagon
i guess
worn ivy
yea Junkyard was omegafun with zap
lilac stag
ToP allegedly the most enjoyable of what’s been tested. What kind of works are we living in?!?!
tribal blade
can't believe we're going back to workshop AGAIN
can't wait to get farmed by the 3rd boss
i hate that boss so much
alpine wraith
yep that is the one
alpine wraith
boss also has super hp
tribal blade
i hope they nerf that boss
i just realized we have to do the gauntlet maze thing in workshop without door of shadows
kill me
lilac stag
Go VE
tribal blade
can you step people there, i forget
lilac stag
Don’t remember tbh
umbral relic
Hello!
I'm new to retail sub and trying to learn the fondamentals.
I see differences in opener between icy veins and wowhead guide, which one would you recomand?
lilac stag
They both should be correct. Look at talent options / which hero talent is selected.
umbral relic
oh ok, that's disorienting, but ok!
mint swift
i dont know if anyone cares but i slapped raszageth vocals onto a track i made i...
This goes so fucking hard
Holy shit
umbral relic
do you have any tips on good behaviour to begin with? or any cool macro to get?
worn cape
Heey, I finally got transmitter yesterday. I macroed it to flag and then try to do the minigame before I hit sectech, is that correct?
void hound
do you have any tips on good behaviour to begin with? or any cool macro to get?
actually not macroing stuff is good behaviour
you can put transmitter on flag along with pot
worn cape
Am I the only one that can't find the orb straight away? My team is quite melee heavy so it tends to get a bit obscured. I know it starts NE from me, but then it floats away while I do my other stuff and I can't find it
void hound
Am I the only one that can't find the orb straight away? My team is quite melee ...
that is why you want to position in such a way so it doesnt spawn in the middle of all the melees
kinda like this, notice how im standing to the right side of the raid so i have clear vision of the orb
(it didnt spawn in this pull but you get the point)
worn cape
I see, thanks!
alpine wraith
Am I the only one that can't find the orb straight away? My team is quite melee ...
do a 90º before using the trinket
same as in ovi nax
alpine wraith
yea
lilac stag
oh ok, that's disorienting, but ok!
this is correct https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/subtlety-rogue-pve-dps-rotation-cooldowns-abilities
don't use macros.
this spec isn't designed like any other dps specs. a lot of shit isn't obsious or has very small details that are important. it's often not exactly a fun spec to learn
alpine wraith
many times they are not using strictly together
umbral relic
coz every rotations use flagelation with shadow blades, and cold blood with secret technique
alpine wraith
you use blades some secs after flag
and cold blood is best used on second sec tech in cds but it is fine to have it macroed
the diff is not big
supple pawn
This goes so fucking hard
I can send you what I've got so far if you'd like?
umbral relic
ok it seems fun actually
i don't have a second screen, do you know any addon to have notes on screen?
nevermind MRT does it well!
hazy breach
Hello!
I'm new to retail sub and trying to learn the fondamentals.
I see differ...
Theres no difference though 
Or well, i guess the cold blood thing isnt mentioned on wowhead in the opener section
lilac stag
I knew your guide had it correct so I just linked that. 
edgy zenith
here's my atrocious binds atm
Shift-1 for Shuriken Toss is WILD
that button is a DPS loss, shouldn't even be bound. especially not on prime real-estate like that
rocky ocean
you still might need it for the open world stuff
swift tinsel
or mechanics force you out of range
hollow spear
That's when you yell "LAG" and Alt + F4
edgy zenith
or mechanics force you out of range
it's a dps loss to press even if you can't get uptime iirc
as long as you don't cap energy, which is pretty hard to do outside of CDs
swift tinsel
I could only really see that being the case if you're at max cp
in which case, depending on situation, SnD for cdr
uneven scarab
bro i dont have that shit bound at all
alpine wraith
have you seen the one i use?
it is the LE standalone one
check if you like it
!wa
thorny rune
Hey guys i have a question! 🙂 when i have +7 or more stored combo points from before i press Symbols and full combo points, why dont i get the 7 combo points from using evisc?
do the combo points have to be earned during symbols?
alpine wraith
welcome to another bugt
thorny rune
i mean i press symbols with 7 or more stored combo points and a full bar then evisc
aaah
lol
alpine wraith
when you begin dance it can bug out
thorny rune
rofl
alpine wraith
and just when you pressed it too
spark tusk
i want it like bar
I changed my main one to an icon. However here's my older version which is a bar
I haven't continued supporting it but I don't see a reason why it wouldn't still work
vale pine
i like the green with thee white radiant
worn ivy
TTY
odd sandal
@vale pine do you know what can be a reason for symbols and shadow dance texture bricking?
the thing on top to show how many stacks i have is fucked
idk why
hazy breach
Thats the way fuus WAs are
uneven scarab
Ah idk then
hazy breach
(as in the squished bit)
uneven scarab
the timers look like they’re under the energy bar
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> do you know what can be a reason for symbols and shadow d...
no idea, works well for me
odd sandal
no idea, works well for me
damn, it worked all the way and it broke for some reason
vale pine
It looks squished
i went with a unconventional/unique style by having the icons bookshelf style
vale pine
damn, it worked all the way and it broke for some reason
weird, i can sadly not re-create the problem
uneven scarab
Im used to ur wa’s like that it just looked extra squished for him idk
odd sandal
weird, i can sadly not re-create the problem
Will need to troubleshoot it somehow, ur WA is too good not to use
vale pine
lilac stag
<@194804407706189824> do you know what can be a reason for symbols and shadow d...
Get the mechagon hires icon addon
odd sandal
Get the mechagon hires icon addon
which one?
lilac stag
which one?
odd sandal
https://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info25064-CleanIcons-MechagnomeEdition.ht...
didnt fix
:<
@vale pine now that i look at it, it looks like every icon in 1
like script doesnt work or smth
keen dome
Looks like it's calling the wrong icon or something
There's one that's all of them in a table and then there's the indiviudal ones
odd sandal
There's one that's all of them in a table and then there's the indiviudal ones
will look into it but im so green in WA overall
keen dome
I remember having a similar issue when I tired to do my own take on it for my personal WA's but I can't recall if I made it work in the end or just binned it and gave up haha
vale pine
^ very good ideas
spark tusk
There was a recent WA addon update. I didn't see anything in there that would sound like it would cause this, but just FYI to update or possible something needs changing in response to that
trail mantle
!stats
wicked joltBOT
The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility > Critical Strike > Haste
odd sandal
^ very good ideas
I've tried all and nothing rip me:(
vale pine
odd sandal
i will reinstall WA addon itself maybe it does anything
odd sandal
!WA
odd sandal
nothing still and i get this :<
lilac stag
have you tried just deleting all of your settings for WeakAuras and everything within your WTF/Account/(Account#)/SavedVariables directory?
Back stuff up but that’s likely your next step. Or get help where they are better able to help. https://discord.gg/weakauras
odd sandal
have you tried just deleting all of your settings for WeakAuras and everything w...
i have deleted WTF and cache
odd sandal
Will do that then
supple pawn
Shift-1 for Shuriken Toss is WILD
I LIKE HAVING MY BARS FILLED REEEEE
spark tusk
nothing still and i get this :<
I got all these errors too when I fresh imported
spark tusk
<:F_:606874756859297802>
I think WA updated their structures and a function you were relying on is gone now, or at least is moved. This is likely to impact anyone who newly imports
This is aura_env.region.texture, SetTexCoord is not there. I don't know if it was there before the recent WA update or not.
spark tusk
Will do that then<:r_zerotwocrywog:1080069292323782716>
I made a temporary fork with changes that fix the issue, I'll coordinate with Fuu, I think it's nighttime where they are and they probably won't be back on for a while
You can use this one for now until then
alpine wraith
yea it is almost 3 am here in eu
just do a fast @ to him and when he wakes up he will see it
or dm i guess
spark tusk
Yeh I'm already in dms
fallow nimbus
Quick tldr? What happened to weakaura?
spark tusk
the update to weakauras probably breaks anyone using Fuu's pack
spark tusk
Quick tldr? What happened to weakaura?
Fuu's code was relying on a function inside of Weakauras table structure that got moved around with the update
It's easy to redirect to, it's just in a location that Weakauras doesn't expect people to pull from so they don't support using those functions directly in that way, thus they will freely move them around without notifying authors
fallow nimbus
When did the update happen?
spark tusk
The weakauras addon update? 2 days ago
It would only break the charge icons, the rest of the pack would continue to function
fallow nimbus
So glad i did my own stuff and kept it basic from the start
spark tusk
Yeah the WAs team is a big ship that has a monetary incentive for their built-in stuff to work. Relying on their built in stuff as simple as possible, as much as possible, is the best way to ensure things continue working. Can't do everything like that, if you want to do some things you need to do custom but even when you do custom, you can rely on WA framework stuff still (like Watched Triggers), which they'll continue to support and you can trust will work
Lean on them to do all the heavy lifting
as much as you can
worn ivy
instant poison does z dam
is there any poinmt using wound poison
in pve ?
maybe in mists maze
i dunno
spark tusk
#subtlety message @odd sandal
alpine wraith
yea you use can use wound if there is almost any healing
tribal blade
"why does my rotation feel so shit right now in this random heroic queen pug"
after kill
"oh we had no shammy"
lilac stag
"why does my rotation feel so shit right now in this random heroic queen pug"
Had I known I would have had you join our Sat Hero run
plush roost
spark tusk
like something to track the internal CD
https://wago.io/gNf0y7O9P - Emphasis on "Estimate", there is no way to "track" it, it can only be estimated based on combat data
steady dune
Thank you @spark tusk !
still sluice
anyone knows why this button wont work for me? i cant unload any auras
tribal blade
Had I known I would have had you join our Sat Hero run
it wasn't for gear or vault, me and guildies just helping random people in lfg get aotc 😉
lilac stag
it wasn't for gear or vault, me and guildies just helping random people in lfg g...
We did that with our 587 dk tank.
tribal blade
We did that with our 587 dk tank. <:garf:1320173032743899157>
damn surprised he could actually survive it
lilac stag
We had a good number of class rerolls for 11.1. He got through everything but Queen yolo.
Queen needed one of our current tanks to swap.
tribal blade
it was fun watching our tanks get absolutely shit on by queen during mythic prog
lilac stag
I’m excited for Tuesday
I need to try to get one key done on Hunter. Have 4 done on warrior.
tribal blade
we can do that, i'll be around
mint swift
it was fun watching our tanks get absolutely shit on by queen during mythic prog
Mine were for heroic prog too X
Same in rash'anan mythic (We usually just go for curve, tried a few more bosses and i was happy with 4/8. Yes ik its puggable)
mint swift
Nah i think most people were finished then
I heard the horror stories of ovi
I did get some good mythic logs for first 4 tho
lilac stag
Nice
tribal blade
yeah ovi is a big step up
mint swift
lilac stag
Ovi is misery
mint swift
Ik it is haha
lilac stag
The WA shit show
Princess is fun
Court was not fun, but I don’t like long end loaded fights.
vale pine
i hate the amount of weakaura dependencies this patch
hazy breach
Court dispel too
void hound
i guess yeh
bright elk
Is there a good guide video on sub pve rn or for the next patch?
molten citrus
Is there a good guide video on sub pve rn or for the next patch?
not much has really changed so far at all from s1 to s2
just a tier set that isn't completely working yet
lilac stag
Is there a good guide video on sub pve rn or for the next patch?
Eleem on YT
bright elk
When did the shadow dust get removed? I’ve not played sub rogue much since amirdrasill so I’m trying to catch up on what’s different
west arch
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
supple pawn
i sent a clipped version of this yesterday that i edited raszageth voicelines onto, here's the full thing
This is a WIP of a track inspired by the Dathea, Ascended fight. Any thoughts appreciated
spark tusk
anyone knows why this button wont work for me? i cant unload any auras
It's not a button, it's just an indicator of the load status.
vale pine
i sent a clipped version of this yesterday that i edited raszageth voicelines on...
sounds nice
i am not that big of a dubstep fan but cool idea
sacred yarrow
what do you mostly hear
vale pine
i have no specific genre i am married too, just a list of songs i like. E.g i liked the new lol single
sacred yarrow
great way to put it, I am of the same sentiment
tranquil garden
I'm having some weirdness w/ tricks of the trade. whenever I turn it on and target somebody, I've got this annoying red cloud texture above my head while it's active. anyone know how to turn that off?
it leaves afterimages when I move too...huge PITA
tranquil garden
...who the hell thought that was a good idea, wtf
maybe I can use leatrix to squelch the texture
rocky ocean
...who the hell thought that was a good idea, wtf
nobody did, they just applied 60 min tricks, which already had this graphic effect
pliant topaz
hf looking at it
they give you animations you bitch. they dont give you animations you bitch. smh cant satisfy anyone
lilac stag
@pliant topaz i think i'm free
vale pine
lol
alpine wraith
kek
lilac stag
do you really NEED atleast one though?
Not really. but atrophic is gonna atrophic.
we went from 2 to zero rogues.
pliant topaz
hope you haev fun whatever class you decide to play next
if not, we can grind league together mashallah
lilac stag
mad bomber arc inc
dear fbi this is a video game joke, nothing more
I keep my hipster status at least.
keen dome
Hell yeah explosions
lilac stag
SV. Hense the melee column.
I’ll offspec mm if needed, but they know my vision does better in melee
vale pine
i know hunters who also think they are melee ^^
lilac stag
RL is hunter as well
so I’m backup mark if he wants to dip out of actual raid and watch to see what’s going on
pliant topaz
oh nice, youre pulling a DK as well then!
pliant topaz
gl gl
lilac stag
Ronkels is my guiding hand. Hah
vale pine
nice, have fun and good luck
keen dome
I hope you kill the big bug real quickly and have fun doing it
keen dome
Roster boss the single most difficult fight in WoW and no amount of addons can improve it, it's true
tranquil garden
oh well, created a feature request for leatrix plus to disable it (and any arbitrary visual effect)
void hound
congratulating rogues on rerolling like cheering on the homies who made it out of the hood
alpine wraith
you need to put m+ in the title
worn ivy
hmm
dry plank
guys question? i spent 4-6 CPs and consume darkest night, is it fine? i though we need to 7 CP
alpine wraith
it works with supercharger but build to full anyway
small spruce
Is there a place in this discord where I could ask for some simple help with log reviews etc?
wind canopy
Is there a place in this discord where I could ask for some simple help with log...
You can ask in the specific spec channels
small spruce
You can ask in the specific spec channels
So, here, basically? xD Since it's a Sub question
wind canopy
Yes
small spruce
I played my first proper raid today on my rogue as sub and i was wondering what the big difference was between me and one of the better logs with same kill time.
we have the same amount of casts etc, but his seem to hit alot harder, so just wanted to see what i'm doing wrong/if i'm missing something.
He has transmitter and i don't, but i don't think that should've done that much dps difference 😛
Any help here would be nice ^^ ❤️
vestal escarp
I played my first proper raid today on my rogue as sub and i was wondering what ...
!log
bronze hatch
alpine wraith
it is quite hard to make it work so yea
small spruce
yeah, checked there and tried to figure some stuff out in raidbots too with sims, but wasn't that much help xD so rather try here to see if there's anyone who got a bigger brain than me xD
viral girder
Might faction/race change to orc.
I like the female nelfs, but I also like female orcs and i kinda want the racial to ink a little harder
small spruce
Might faction/race change to orc.
I like the female nelfs, but I also like fema...
I will never swap! 
hazy breach
The guy he is comparing to is playing velf, and their racial literally doesnt work so
But ye orc good despite 2m cringe with 90s cds
