Yeah
#subtlety
keen dome
alpine wraith
not really you have 1 extra symbols you can use the whole fight
everything else is kinda cdr locked
hollow spear
That's what I am saying, or at least what I mean
But I feel like it's more than 1 extra symbol per fight. Depending on how long it lasts.
hollow spear
No wonder you have symbols left 😄
keen dome
Logic as I understand it is just to have maximum uptime of empowered Sectecs. So two per burst window, then two outside of it, then naked, then sitting on it for next window?
barren wolf
its not like ive played a lot of sub lol
it has been 2 raid nights of 5 bosses each
hollow spear
If you feel like symbols + sectec without dance is bad. Wait until you have to send a sectec without anything.
barren wolf
2 weeks apart
hollow spear
Doing some dummy training really helps
barren wolf
i did, 3 minutes
hollow spear
😄
barren wolf
not doing more
just need to know bare minimum to swap to sub for NW lol
dumb aaaaa dungeon
keen dome
It does feel a lot more natural once it clicks and you can adjust on the fly around cooldowns (and being sent down, etc, since i assume final boss?)
keen dome
I don't play remotely high enough to offer good advice but it'll probably feel natural after a few tries. Just keeping all cooldowns together and using Dance+Symbols optimally is big dam
hazy breach
Make sure you are always able to use 2 dances+2 symbols during flag+blades
silent ruin
Are there any conditions when the dance symbols macro fails to trigger symbols?
barren wolf
Make sure you are *always* able to use 2 dances+2 symbols during flag+blades
do i instantly use 2nd dance after first one
hazy breach
Which means you need roughly 1 charge and the other charge on ~40s cd when you flag
Yes
barren wolf
sus cause sometimes feels like sectec wont be up
hollow spear
I think it was like 10-11 seconds
to fit it into the 2nd SC charge, if you wanna send symbols earlier
barren wolf
considering im full assa gear, i didnt play awfully
idk how much being full mastery crit 0 haste 0 vers matters
hazy breach
And roughly, inbetween your burst you rotate between 2 dances inbetween and 1 dance inbetween
So like burst > 2 dances > burst > 1 dance > burst > 2 dances etc
barren wolf
ye
hazy breach
And for symbols you need to make sure you hit sectech with supercharger
So that means using symbols when sectech has atleast 10s or less left
hazy breach
Since if it has 10s left your first eviscerate will reduce it down for the second finisher
hollow spear
idk how much being full mastery crit 0 haste 0 vers matters
0 haste is actually perfect, 0 vers the opposite
Crit isn't too bad, at least trickster likes it to a degree
barren wolf
DS gamer
lilac stag
idk how much being full mastery crit 0 haste 0 vers matters
It doesn’t matter as much as people think it does
Get transmitter. Pump.
still trellis
Get transmitter. Pump.
you lost me at the get transmitter part
vestal escarp
Get the radio
barren wolf
Get transmitter. Pump.
You lost me at pump
lilac stag
go back to assa then.
barren wolf
Good thing I'm there already
lilac stag
barren wolf
Sub the 1 boss pony
hazy breach
I play sub on court so i dont have to worry about accidently losing my mark as assa 
vestal escarp
Ovinax has parried my initial ambush
spark tusk
wtf is an ambush
plush roost
Sub on court feels very cozy
vale pine
ovinax is a sin angle sadly
keen dome
Ovinax is a sin 
vale pine
sub no parry gang
it iirc still applies to the entire raid team^^
plush roost
They should keep that
vale pine
Ovinax *is* a sin <:dracthyr_kek:1002454136706580620>
the performance of the fight def. is
vale pine
i like it too
spark tusk
it iirc still applies to the entire raid team^^
RISE UP 
keen dome
upper narwhal
gonna force my raidlead to recruit a sub onetrick so these piss bosses stop parrying my kingsbane
keen dome
Haha
plush roost
Lmfao, my only fatebound sin parses were on that week
upper narwhal
same lol
lilac stag
gonna force my raidlead to recruit a sub onetrick so these piss bosses stop parr...
Jokes on you. We’re all quitting or leaving rogue.
lilac stag
Don’t worry. Fuu will still be here saying it’s not that bad.
kind bluff
How's rogue looking next patch?
hazy breach
No changes
spice matrix
cooked
hazy breach
So about the same as now
spice matrix
whoops thought I was in sin channel
hot plaza
Hey guys just watched shindig on sub he has a talent where when he uses dance is seems to reset symbols cd which talent is this please? Ty ♥️
swift tinsel
no such talent exists
hazy plank
hazy breach
Lens or any of the lining ones
lilac stag
lense for m+?
hazy breach
hollow spear
Hey guys just watched shindig on sub he has a talent where when he uses dance is...
The video is outdated, that version of sub doesn't exist anymore
swift tinsel
Since tier set is borked atm, is there anything trinket-wise that would be beneficial to test?
Need something to do after work lol
grand wyvern
for fun you could test if any on use is actually better than transmitter not nerfed lol
hot plaza
The video is outdated, that version of sub doesn't exist anymore
Ok thanks mate ♥️👍
swift tinsel
Lingering from DS seems to be affecting shadow dmg trinkets but by inconsistent amounts
vestal escarp
streak never drops ofc it's getting fixed
vale pine
Lingering from DS seems to be affecting shadow dmg trinkets but by inconsistent ...
thats a known bug yes
swift tinsel
Does deeper daggers ever affect trinkets or just ability damage
Might see tier set stack rate in and outside of dance
edgy zenith
as long as I don't have to play Dark Brew and Finality bc of tier set next patch and can use 3 SoD charges, I am happy
trinket options do make me depressed though
heard that meteor trinket is blasting
vestal escarp
still no steroid for sub is gonna hinder it
edgy zenith
It's doing ridiculous damage atm
lmao wtf
swift tinsel
Depending on what the robot says I'm probably going Energy Drink + Gooners/Ratfang
swift tinsel
lmao wtf
It has no cooldown and is off the gcd, so you use @player macro every 10 seconds
if you use it during its 10 second accumulation window it just resets itself so you can just wait until you see it fall and cast again
I'm sure there's gonna be a WA for better timing
edgy zenith
what is the trinket called?
swift tinsel
Ummm
Garbagemancer's Last Resort
Static mainstat trinket with goofy on-use effect
Appears to be a Delve trinket
edgy zenith
are there literally no on-use 90s trinkets?
swift tinsel
Ratfang toxin will be good in st
grand wyvern
4 of which do damage
why do 4 trinkets need to be the same? that i don't get
lilac stag
as long as I don't have to play Dark Brew and Finality bc of tier set next patch...
gl with that
swift tinsel
bc its weird to literally everyone else
edgy zenith
gl with that
is tier set doing big dam on PTR?
swift tinsel
It's bugged with perma-10 stack
quite literally never drops
but the shadow damage amp doesn't work apparently
swift tinsel
Rogue tier set had zero QA before hitting ptr
Hoping to see a fix in a week or two
hollow spear
Unrelated question: how fun is Windwalker?
vestal escarp
I tried it the other day
I got energy starved mid ewf
A couple of times
No serenity sucks so much
swift tinsel
Unrelated question: how fun is Windwalker?
Second favorite dps spec behind sub
quite fun
hollow spear
Will prepare an alt, just in case 11.1 is as doomed as people act it will be 😄
pliant topaz
11.1*
hollow spear
Apparently I am ahead of time
swift tinsel
That's my plan atm
backup ww/mw flex
Or main, depending on what state things are in when it goes live
Maybe dps warrior
Press Big Red Button, get killed by boss
keen dome
Maybe dps warrior
What flavour of DPS warrior?
swift tinsel
I kinda like fury, with new Reckless Abandon it feels way smoother
Arms is also good
keen dome
Well, I'm counting it as more evidence for my Sub Rogue to Arm's Warrior correlation.
tranquil stump
sup fellow sub enjoyers, any tip where to check rotation for pure ST? is the wowhead one aight? returning to rogue for season 2 so just wanna check out how things are 
swift tinsel
I get assigned mechanics a lot though so I wanna pick something that can play well around that
keen dome
WoWhead's guide is very good, ye
But also asking questions in here if you need anything clarified or are curious is also very good.
swift tinsel
I think arms warrior was the first dps spec I played decently well lol
tranquil stump
aight thanks, yeah i was digging a bit in here, found out that sub is completely bugged as always lol, but just wanna see how it feels now
keen dome
!guide
keen dome
If you wanted to look at the others, too. They're all very good resources.
tranquil stump
great, thanks a lot broski
hot plaza
Hey guys probably a stupid question but why can’t I black powder during dance and symbols pls soon as I pop them cds BP icon backs out? Ty ♥️👍
swift tinsel
Can you provide a screenshot or video? You should be able to use it, assuming you have energy/combo points available
hot plaza
f12 on my action bar black powder goes black mate?
swift tinsel
Stealth bar
hazy breach
When youre in stealth you get another bar
Aka the stealth bar
So put your spells on there too
hot plaza
Awesome thanks so much guys ♥️👍
void hound
please god let this go through
void ocean
so if I understood correctly recent pins, we know jack sh*t about how viable rogue is gonna be in s2, amirite?
spark tusk
don't forget thew eek after that
pliant topaz
also rogues gonna be viable idk what that even means
spark tusk
We have no meta predictions nor would we at this time
void ocean
Im totally out of sync, havent rly tuned in much, played this expansion for a month
so no tier lists? 😄
molten citrus
tier list bad
pliant topaz
oh boy
void ocean
I know
lilac stag
aight thanks, yeah i was digging a bit in here, found out that sub is completely...
DS feels like shit. trickey is fun.
pliant topaz
rogues gonna be good enough to clear all raid content and gonna be fine enough to do close to title range keys if thats what you care about
will it do rank 1 keys? prob no
will it be highest dps in raid? prob no
lilac stag
be willing to play assa
pliant topaz
does that matter? prob no
lilac stag
Maybe
pliant topaz
also taht
lilac stag
this is wrong place to come for positive vibes. Hahah
pliant topaz
im pure positivity wym
void ocean
all Im interested in to be competitive with players of the same skill on different classes
pliant topaz
if by competitive you mean within 5% then yeah youll be fine probably
void ocean
I hate when I have to turn on godmode just to do 50% of what a warlock does with one button 😄
pliant topaz
migiht need to play sin for that instead of sub, but eh
dont think thats happened in a long time now ngl
pliant topaz
except enhancement in m+
hazy breach
Its only good enhances
lilac stag
who cares about m+. Kekw
hazy breach
Fwiw
lilac stag
Sadists
void ocean
migiht need to play sin for that instead of sub, but eh
just checked Whispyr's pin on sas channel, got depressed 😄
lilac stag
we’re worse than that take
pliant topaz
Its only good enhances
not sure how you can fuck this up
lilac stag
So is 1/2 the dps tier sets
hazy breach
not sure how you can fuck this up
Well pooling the tempests correctly
Does require some skill
spark tusk
not sure how you can fuck this up
swift tinsel
the second part at least
lilac stag
not sure how you can fuck this up
You get blinded by all your fancy visuals and forget to press keeb
void ocean
https://tenor.com/view/cat-crazy-cat-keyboard-cat-fast-gif-5753018
this looks like an embodiment of one of Hacha's rotations 😄
pliant topaz
Well pooling the tempests correctly
maybe they still play that thing in m+ but atleast in raid they dont even have the tempest thingy anymore. its litearlly pur rng fiesta just proc a reset and your totem go brr. from what ive seen/been told totemic almost involves 0 thought. just get lucky and press shiny button when shiny
hazy breach
Well ye i was talking about m+
pliant topaz
just checked Whispyr's pin on sas channel, got depressed 😄
i mean its just ptr. things are gonna be broken and probably get adjusted. patch is more than a month away so eh.
hazy breach
But ye theyre heavily changing it
void ocean
i mean its just ptr. things are gonna be broken and probably get adjusted. patch...
ye, Im just not aware of current stage of ptr
soz
lilac stag
rogue same status as always. No dev notes, shit is broken. Assa likely to get attention before other two.
pliant topaz
patches usually go live in awful state fwiw
but thats a all specs thign, not jsut a rogue thing
swift tinsel
permanent Vanish Super Stealth
lilac stag
the ptr developers are also stealthed
Nah they’re fel rushing
sick jackal
permanent Vanish Super Stealth
thats outlaw
kind bluff
I take it we aren't looking great on ptr?
keen dome
We still glow purple. So that's a positive.
swift tinsel
Potential for fixes
lilac stag
I take it we aren't looking great on ptr?
We don’t look great now. We’re hanging on by a transmitter thread, tier set and trickster. 2/3 def going away.
start your 
circles
sick jackal
how are the former bugs on ptr? any fixes on the delay?
lilac stag
nothing fixed
Probably more if you look at them fucking up previous hotfixes (needing 12 delves for vault)
swift tinsel
If they can at least get the tier set to work right we'll be in decent shape
kind bluff
So from logs I'm seeing the second dance and sod inside of our cd windows being offset. Where I've been using a dance/sod macro. How much or an impact is that?
lilac stag
you don’t macro dance and sod
swift tinsel
Yeah, you're better off having separate binds bc there's times you SoD but don't dance
lilac stag
Sod it critical for Sectech. Dance is critical for getting cdr back. They are not paired necessarily.
there are times you send dance ahead of symbols if you’re watching closely.
and there are times you send SoD only with Sectech (no dance)
kind bluff
Fantastic ty
Just went sub so working out all the kinks.
Will there ever be a time I send sectec without sod?
swift tinsel
Rarely
as long as you can have sectech back up for flag and also guarantee 2x SoD/Dance in cooldowns
won't be as strong bc of no supercharger tho
kind bluff
So holding sectec is OK to make it line up for cds. Just felt funny holding sectec at all.
swift tinsel
You'll hold it when flag has ~20 sec left on its cooldown
and hold sod/dance with respect to that too
kind bluff
Perfect
swift tinsel
You can get away with having 1x SoD ready and the cd of the 2nd charge having ~10 sec left, and 1 charge of Dance with ~30-40sec left on its 2nd charge
kind bluff
That right there is what I needed.
swift tinsel
when you're sending flag
kind bluff
Gotta work out some ui stuff to track all that easier but that answers the few things I was running into
Ty!
swift tinsel
There’s some wiggle room with those timings once you get used to how the different pieces fit together
Main thing is 2x sod/dance and spending supercharger on sectech
And there will be differences in when you can use sod/dance between cooldown windows based on if you’re playing trickster or deathstalker
Due to differences in cooldown reduction, as trickster has more because of Coup and 10% sectech cdr talent
near junco
Is wrest AOE? does feint reduce it?
hazy breach
yes
ripe flame
!wa
bleak wind
please god let this go through
sick jackal
rogue tier impressions are up this will be fun
vestal escarp
istg i cant play sin at last 2 bosses
vale pine
then play sub ^^
vale pine
rogue tier impressions are up this will be fun
nice, sadly not that much to talk about because most stuff does not work atm
vagrant fulcrum
I’ve not been less excited about a tier set bonus in a long time
formal helm
nice, sadly not that much to talk about because most stuff does not work atm
average rog ptr situation
vagrant fulcrum
I miss DF S3 bonuses 😭
formal helm
I’ve not been less excited about a tier set bonus in a long time
same
feels so incredibly boring and uninspired
bet that chatgpt could come up with a better one
swift tinsel
The inconsistent stacking in a spec that's built around meticulous cd uses feels like too big a clash to be excited for
molten citrus
I miss DF S3 bonuses 😭
i miss shadowlands 
pliant topaz
i miss shadowlands <a:Smokege:1059258853499355146>
i miss you :3
still trellis
i miss shadowlands <a:Smokege:1059258853499355146>
agree
pliant topaz
i no lie
sick jackal
i miss shadowlands <a:Smokege:1059258853499355146>
We are thst bad huh
sick jackal
nice, sadly not that much to talk about because most stuff does not work atm
Hope it doesnt release that way
small juniper
i see u are on the usual copium @vale pine
im sure sub rogue will see changes within the next month and a half
vale pine
^^ always on
tranquil garden
stupid question from a new sub rogue. does coup de grace ever just bug and not get consumed? I just went through a whole dungeon where it was stuck on 4 stacks, with the icon highlighted in my action bar, and I could not ever spend it
eviscerate just never flipped to coup de grace at any point
next time I'll manually cancel the buff but like...I didn't see it in the list of known bugs; wtf was that?
lilac stag
Yes. Just die.
gritty knot
The inconsistent stacking in a spec that's built around meticulous cd uses feels...
Why? That's perfect for sub. I will look forward to smash everything with my 10 stack backstabs and natty eviscerates only to not pay attention and loose all stacks for my next burst window
tranquil garden
well that's frustrating, I'll make a cancelaura macro I guess and leave it on my sidebar for the next time it happens
gritty knot
Well do we loose all stacks? Or just 1? Is that Info available? Atleast that's how I imagined that T Set Bonus
vale pine
we currently don't lose stacks, the tier set is not working correctly on ptr
swift tinsel
well that's frustrating, I'll make a cancelaura macro I guess and leave it on my...
pretty sure you can't cancelaura coup
tranquil garden
guess I'll just hope it doesn't do that again when I'm doing something actually important
swift tinsel
relog, die, or somehow change talents to ds then back
hazy breach
From what ive heard its either due to some sort of lag in the middle of it
Like if your internet scuffs out in the middle of it
idk
spark tusk
It's happened to me a couple of times
and by couple I mean like exactly 2
it's very rare but obviously catastrophic
And if memory serves correctly it did in fact correspond to a lag spike each time
honest saddle
Just here to remind you they gave coup a charge
so that on Queen when you get knocked in the air for the circle
if you eviscerate you charge down to her and die
FLAME BLIZZARD
BURN THEM TO THE GROUND
viral girder
For the life of me I cant find the 649 quest
jaunty umbra
do the weekly objective
bleak wind
For the life of me I cant find the 649 quest
last week's one? if so try in the storm zone
viral girder
I dont know how to enter the zone.
hazy breach
Shouldnt be last weeks one anyway, its the current weekly one
The previous ones you get from just killing rares n stuff
viral girder
Like I got my 645 upgrade from the looting the boxes
I dont know where the next one is
hazy breach
Do more stuff
jaunty umbra
^^
uninstall this shit game
rocky ocean
And insta download it back
void hound
<:besad:507266809431326729>
gg
long sun
in raid as trickster during cds right as my my first dance ends i find im often 3 finishers away from my next secret tech. So once dance ends my upcoming finisher order might be something like evis-> coup-> sectech. Is it correct to delay pressing dance by 1 finisher so the sectech is supercharged? So it would look something like:
1st dance ends -> evis -> 2nd dance -> coup -> sectech
round latch
tepid trellis
in raid as trickster during cds right as my my first dance ends i find im often ...
you wouldnt delay dance really, you just delay the symbols cast
alpine wraith
some of them are decent but nothing crazy
haughty mural
i see
void hound
surely rogue dev notes are coming
surely we wont start into a big patch with 2 lines of changes
tepid trellis
void hound
😭
thorn acorn
Why though? In my noob hands, it feels like we are in a good spot
thorn acorn
But that would not necesarrily be in the dev notes no?
tribal blade
Why though? In my noob hands, it feels like we are in a good spot
sub is in a good spot but far from perfect
i mean look at all the pages upon pages of notes on mage and shammy
they're in good spots too, yet continue to get iterated on
thorn acorn
I think I have to disagree on mages. But from my perspective it is mostly flavor wise that we are lacking behind, as evident by the perhaps three most boring hero specs in the game.
tribal blade
I think I have to disagree on mages. But from my perspective it is mostly flavor...
the top 10 keys this season so far
thorn acorn
That is only frost mage though, the other specs are kind of fried
tribal blade
true
haughty mural
point is also lack of communication - while others might get it explained with lines
why they are doing what they are doing
tribal blade
but i don't know if 1 round of changes to sub makes up for so much ignoring
thorn acorn
Oh yeah for sure. I think we have like 10% of a dev dedicated to rogue
tribal blade
like it's been a REALLY long time where we haven't gotten good attention
haughty mural
what they think where they wanna have go with the spec and so on
tribal blade
i think people are a little blinded by the fact that sub is way better now than before
but it doesn't mean it's completely fixed
barren wolf
the top 10 keys this season so far
those are fucking chinese groups who exploit
i wouldnt really count
but still
thorn acorn
Yea that is a good point. We are not rly viable in m+ either
haughty mural
we kinda get 2 powder buffs slammed without any word
barren wolf
rogue good, dk good
tribal blade
those are fucking chinese groups who exploit
i don't follow any of the chinese teams so i had no idea
barren wolf
it has been some drama in the high key place
thorn acorn
Rogue for sure feels like an after thought
I just can't dedicate myself to one of the beloved hero classes, they don't hit the same dopamine receptors
tribal blade
it has just been very frustrating as a sub main for so many years
watching the steady decline
i think the atmosphere about that all isn't so great in here because we had quite a lot of problems after the DF rework
nothing got addressed, and then going into TWW 0 attention
keen dome
BfA is a good example of it. A major change to the spec at the last possible moment with no warning. Highly frustrating. And then no replacement or change made to accomidate it for the entireity of the expansion.
tribal blade
so in the macro sense it's not enough
tribal blade
BfA is a good example of it. A major change to the spec at the last possible mom...
that was so bad /cry
thorn acorn
Completely understandable. I just don't think anything is going to change unless they hire more people dedicated to this. But from a pragmatic viewpoint, why should they?
long sun
you wouldnt delay dance really, you just delay the symbols cast
ah! ok thanks. i was running an illegal shadow dance + symbols macro which is why it came about, i now c why its not good to do that
tribal blade
the general consensus is they just don't want to pay attention to a spec of a class that has the lowest playrate
keen dome
Because they should have a good spread of development over all classes. I don't know if it's a resource issue, a design issue, a manpower issue. It's weird.
tribal blade
because why work on sub if you can work on specs that actually have a big playerbase 😉
haughty mural
i mean you could actually just lie and put a note "We are aware that RS is miserable to use occasionally, we are working on it."
tribal blade
but i feel like we can't go into the next tier with virtually no notes, that's just bonkers
surely something
keen dome
I'm sure there are a lot of good reasons, and I suspect it's a thankless job with a whole host of spinning plates and deadlines. But yeah, precisely Oz. A tiny bit of communication
"We're aware. We'll do something when we can"
haughty mural
even if they do nothing for a year after that
keen dome
Ye
haughty mural
they actually showed us they know we are here
keen dome
Communicaiton goes so far
haughty mural
then 50% in here would be silent
aye
know its just like ... "are they even aware this exists since 10.2 
"
(only an exxagerated example btw)
plush roost
Dont worry they'll fix RS introducing a new bug with the tier set that somehow fixes RS
Only for it to return after the tier set goes away
haughty mural
Pog
molten citrus
blizzard to the rogue community rn:
"you guys don't have paladins?"
keen dome
haha
molten citrus
"everyone has a paladin"
haughty mural
"play survival, they have camouflage"
tribal blade
need to gaslight more people into playing sub so we bump up our playerbase numbers
tribal blade
it's been interesting to watch people as a whole both terrified and very reluctant to touch sub
over the years
it's the arcane mage effect, but for rogue
plush roost
Sub is pretty unintuitive
thorn acorn
Dont worry they'll fix RS introducing a new bug with the tier set that somehow f...
guys what is RS x) pls help
plush roost
Especially DS rn haha
plush roost
guys what is RS x) pls help
No meme? Replicating shadows, a talent that bugs CP refund
thorn acorn
thx
tribal blade
it's bugged right now and delays shadowcraft refunds
and it's so unreliably bugged that you can't play around it
if it was delayed consistently you could play around it
thorn acorn
I was not aware lmfao
plush roost
50/50 the 7 stack shadowcraft procs xddd
tribal blade
i've sometimes played around it successfully
and then sometimes i'll miss a gcd or 2 trying
and then figured it's just not worth
plush roost
And sometimes it delays, then a sht proc occurs as you accounted for delay, using shadowstrike only for the cp to be eaten up xddd
tribal blade
And sometimes it delays, then a sht proc occurs as you accounted for delay, usin...
you just made me cry a little
haughty mural
it makes you wanna punch your screen
tribal blade
Its why i played DS this week LOl
i just run imp sht in raid instead 😉
although even WITHOUT rs i'm still getting delays
and CP fuckery
plush roost
Its always
tribal blade
so it's all a buggy mess
tribal blade
yeah i thought there was something wrong with my sht WA after the rework
haughty mural
7 sins of holding onto sub
plush roost
I got a purple parse on queen this week after having horrendous green and greys
tribal blade
losing entire 7 CP finishers to a bug is maddening
my guild got her to ~25% this week
plush roost
Ah you're close to the home run thebn
tribal blade
if we stop having people chain die in P1 we kill her next raid night
plush roost
I mean if it makes u feel better
We've been reclearing since november
And we still have like an hour of p1 wiping
tribal blade
hahaaa amazing
plush roost
Theres always some random thing that goes wrong man
tribal blade
i get it though, sometimes blades are out and you're safe, then suddenly a wave is about to hit you
plush roost
I play perfectly the whole night, then 3 pulls in a row i fuck shadowstep on wrest lmfao
tribal blade
i stopped trying to step adds in P2
because we have so much damage now it's unreliable
just stepping our bdk
plush roost
Rip
tribal blade
i also had brain lag the other night
my RL was telling me during the shield i had to backup someone for a portal
and then i completely missed the wrest going out and didn't even run out of melee
plush roost
Haha information overload
tribal blade
i felt pretty dumb haha
plush roost
I feel that, learning sub timings and also the fight is challenging for sure
tribal blade
he literally said after that happened "Hey prophet guess what, you don't need to back up after all because you're dead"
this guy i swear
plush roost
I yolo played sin last week and it was like maroon 5 all night
tribal blade
haha i can't be assed, just playing sub 😉
vale pine
there is !help
which is similar, not sure if it is perfectly updated.
I thought about auto parsing and just creating a list of commands, so you get a message like
!sheet, !rupture, ....
but haven't had time or motivation to do so
wicked joltBOT
The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png
plush roost
Yeah makes sense
alpine wraith
yea also the elusive !pedro
keen dome
Haha
Hey, at least that'll be useless next season! I say, crying into my coffee. Knowing the truth of the matter. Despair.
uneven onyx
Hi, for DS and trickster, but above all DS, according to Wowhead guide, it seems strange to me that we have to SS at 5 cp in dance, because it is **always **better to finish at 6+. Is that true?
lilac stag
nah we put purposely fake information in guides people are paid to write.
fallow nimbus
lilac stag
haughty mural
alpine wraith
you strike once to proc premed
because it gives a stack of DM
but you dont really storm at 5 if you just landed on it
in 1 gcd
lilac stag
Where did storm come from?
lilac stag
Very creatively named and designed spec.
alpine wraith
same
lilac stag
I just use dn since it makes me laugh
alpine wraith
true DN
lilac stag
@tribal blade I’m so over court progression
alpine wraith
the reverse stun seed
tribal blade
<@146180393941336064> I’m so over court progression
damn court prison 😦
lilac stag
we got to p3 with me evasion tanking. Hahaha
keen dome
rogue tank?!
tribal blade
huge!
lilac stag
progress, but man fuck this fight
keen dome
the legends were true
I hope you get it soon, it seems like a really awful fight to be on.
lilac stag
blue side going out for drinks, red side doing all the heavy lifting.
keen dome
My very casual guild managed to get AotC last night, which was nice. It'll be the first AotC for a lotta people raiding with us.
lilac stag
Nice. Gz
keen dome
My second kill 'cos pugging that boss was such a nightmare I just gave up after killing it in week 2 lmao
lilac stag
keen dome
Nah, nightmare.
P1 is still a disaster area. Most people just will not do mechanics or think further than 3 seconds. Best way to it is to join a 630+ curve group but you still get absolute terrorists.
I try every week in my own pugs, and it's always like 5 pulls of people refusing to place pools right, people not popping, people dying to the acid goop, etc. Every wipe people leave, so you just get into a nonsense cycle. Sucks.
I think only 14 - 15% of accounts have AotC this tier too, which is down compared to a lot of DF which I find interesting.
lilac stag
Yeah pugging is rough
tribal blade
mmmm interesting
lilac stag
we even had one off week that it was all alts and we just said fuck it
keen dome
Everything you think is simple in an organized group is comical clownshoe in a pug, it's great
lilac stag
and the dps is way lower so you aren’t. Pushing past mechanics
keen dome
Well, you can. Kind of?
lilac stag
dispels carry the pug raid
keen dome
You can have 2 - 3 carry DPS pretty easily. But on Ovinax, court and queen you just have no control over the worst mechanics
Although my priest buddy I do my pugs with is getting really good at pulling people on ovinax when they try to break the wrong eggs.
Ovinax is the biggest pug killer outside of queen and it's always the same. People breaking the wrong eggs. You can explain, repeatedly, how to do 3-4-4 and someone will still run to the wrong platform, not break, or just break random stuff. And pugs can't recover quick enough to adapt most of the time.
Sikran is also, surprisingly, the one people cannot do well.
And this on heroic so god knows how dumb it'd be on Mythic pugging
lilac stag
AOTC def an achieve this tier for heroic guilds
keen dome
Ye, I'm real proud of my raiders for making a bit more effort. Esp for a casual group.
lilac stag
Sikran is also, surprisingly, the one people cannot do well.
I think most just see mechanic and spread, vs get out and stay “close”
keen dome
Probably, yeah
lilac stag
Ovi mythic is just WA boss and praying people use defensives like candy
keen dome
I am glad I never have to experience it, honestly
lilac stag
court is giving me anduin flashbacks with people greeding orbs
haughty mural
alpine wraith
court is funny because you have diff strats too
lilac stag
You get lulled to sleep after doing the same dance over and over just to get maybe 15-20 seconds further in the fight
void hound
court is growing on me, doing damage is almost entirely in your hands which i like
hollow spear
Depends on how hard you get bodyblocked by the other group I suppose
My problem is not fumbling transmitter before the amp phase 
Half of the time I lose my orb in the scarab fiesta
lilac stag
It’s only useful for after vanish when vanish can bug out. Basically don’t worry about it.
hot plaza
Hey guys why does it matter so much for sectech to be first finisher inside dance please? Ty
lilac stag
Read your tier set bonuses
first or second finisher for supercharger and getting everything back on cdr asap
mighty crow
i have a question how big is thee DPS difference between sub and assassin atm?
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
plush roost
You can look at this sheet for sim numbers
In practice they have very different damage profiles and uses, as well as different functionality in aoe
lilac stag
i have a question how big is thee DPS difference between sub and assassin atm?
Fight timings matter more. Does it favor 2 min or 90 seconds.
Assa way easier for most to play as well
mighty crow
ah. i would like to play sub more than assassin but if its gonna be that big of a difference hm
iv always played sub tbh
plush roost
Then play sub
lilac stag
tbf if you’re asking it doesn’t likely matter in the content you’re doing.
Run what you find fun
random mason
If you're more comfortable on sub you're gonna do better damage
plush roost
Unless you're doing title level keys or bleeding edge(like HoF) content you're not required to play sin over sub
Even then, you could get away with it if you're good enough
Like bistre
mighty crow
i would like to push over a 10 eventually yea lol
plush roost
Eleem played sub all the way to 17s iirc
random mason
Yeah max key for sub is 17, for assa it's 19 atm
mighty crow
im guessing above a 17 is a no go?
random mason
Are you gonna get to 17s in the next.. 6 weeks or so?
mighty crow
probably not though ill be trying to push
plush roost
Have you done anything like that on other classes
plush roost
Oh 17s and 15s are quite different haha
But yeah you can play sub in 15s just fine
Finding a group might be a pain, but it's definitely fine
mighty crow
hm. all right then i prefer sub so i guess ill stick ot it
silent ruin
Transmitter n flagellation etc don't reset on wipes? Is there a hack around it
alpine wraith
nope
lilac stag
Nope
silent ruin
But dance resets right?
alpine wraith
and if they decide to go onto the monocycles
silent ruin
What's logic of 1 minute reset but not 1.5
alpine wraith
nope dance and SoD dont either but they have less cd
silent ruin
Ok
hot plaza
Guys should my combos points be changing to show me which ones are super charged as nothing seems to be changing at the moment? Ty
vale pine
they charge to show you how many charges you have
if you use symbols you get 2 combo points lighting up, the first and 2nd one
but there is no minigame anymore
your next finisher will just add +3 combo points to its calculation
and remove one of the empowered points
it is a bit confusing if you know the old system, but it is simply just showing how many times you get the extra combo points to your next finisher added
hot plaza
your next finisher will just add +3 combo points to its calculation
Thanks so much appreciate that 👍♥️
hot plaza
Is is much dps difference if coup de grace is inside symbols or not guys obviously ill try my best to but if a few get missed a big problem? Ty
swift tinsel
Its okay if its not, just make sure Fazed is up
hot plaza
Ok thanks 🤩 👍
worn ivy
Deathstalker ST rotation is kinda feeling diff
compare to Trickster right?
i feel like im loosing 1 sectech
sending it without dance
alpine wraith
you lose more than 1 yea because of less cdr
alpine wraith
they buffed it 11 times
so it does more dmg
mostly because of dmg procs
like hunt them down and mark dmg
lime wigeon
So you think trick Is Better for raid st?
hazy breach
whats the benefit i mean
Your auto attacks does way more damage 
alpine wraith
and using a finisher pops your mark that randomly does 1m dmg while in dance
why? because the vision
vestal escarp
That tree has 2 half good ideas and 20 bad
lilac stag
It mimics sub’s spec tree
alpine wraith
yea it even has a talent that belongs to more than 3 expansions ago
fatal intent would be fire in WoD
imagine ALMOST 1 mil dmg in like 5 mins
blackhand would get rolled
uneven scarab
fatal should hit for like 10x that and i wouldnt wanna see it deleted
Otherwise just put a cdr talent there pls
hazy breach
Its a shit talent either way
If it does damage we would want to save dance and stuff for when the boss hits 20%
Because it works on it 🙃
alpine wraith
and lingering
edgy zenith
anyone know any good guild recruitment discords?
using warcraftlogs, but is there a discord community that's active too?
random mason
silent ruin
If transmitter says jump three times, or sitting on the ball, do we wait for collection before dance?
vestal escarp
Optimal timing is sending sectech when you get the steroid buff
silent ruin
Steroid you mean trinket ?
pallid mauve
Man I'm coming back to my level 70 Rogue after a year and it feels impossible to understand Sub rotation even with a guide 
vestal escarp
The buff from the trinket yes
silent ruin
Ok so that would mean waiting right?
vestal escarp
It means timing the completion of the minigame with sectech
You do you honestly but could say yeah
Send trinket, see minigame and complete it while sending sectech
silent ruin
Hmm ok
edgy zenith
Man I'm coming back to my level 70 Rogue after a year and it feels impossible to...
watch videos, they are way more helpful imo
it's hard to write a Sub guide honestly. even if fuu does a good job
terse spindle
have any 11.1 sims?
vestal escarp
uneven scarab
Do you mean 11.1? 
terse spindle
y
uneven scarab
ya nothing yet dont think
honest void
@vale pine you doing testing?
honest void
well it says today at 8 cest but i don't think many people know that
- it's just one boss
silent ruin
Is there a pre emptive way of knowing if my next finisher doing SoD will guarantee another shadow craft finisher
Or just got to be on one's toes
edgy zenith
if you have 7+ shadow technique stacks, you will full reset
so yeah, just track your Shadow Technique stacks
vale pine
+ it's just one boss
on interessting
silent ruin
But that doesn't guarantee, I could do a finisher at 6 stacks, n after finishing have 7 stacks that refreshes all cp, but muscle memory not ready for that
So end up shadow striking , n wasting cp
silent ruin
I mean in shadow blades it's always 7
uneven scarab
well yeah but with rs delay bug
silent ruin
During blades how will I tell that a particular finisher will refresh me
edgy zenith
i think you're experiencing the RS bug
silent ruin
What is RS bug
uneven scarab
Replicating shadows(the talent)
Sometimes causes a delay in ur cp gain
and will only give you 5-6 cps
when you should have 7
Even during blades
silent ruin
You're saying with RS this situation should not arise ?
uneven scarab
(If this happens just finish)
edgy zenith
if you have RS talented, this happens
edgy zenith
which y ou more than likely do
silent ruin
No, I think we're talking of two different things
uneven scarab
replicating shadows
Is what we are talking about
Which legit every build takes i believe
edgy zenith
you SHOULD be able to react to shadowcraft, even without a tracker
your global is quite slow
silent ruin
In blades I will finish anyway, I'm asking say I am finishing, n I am at 6 stacks shadow technique, n while finishing it goes to 7, so I should finish again cause I'll be refreshed - is there some predictive tracker for that
edgy zenith
no different than any other spec getting a proc
uneven scarab
no not really
edgy zenith
nah, just react
silent ruin
Ok understood
uneven scarab
you just kinda have to trust your judgement
silent ruin
Thanks
edgy zenith
there is a shadow technique tracker that jpc used to use
but it's not like 100%
it just shows probablity of next auto giving one basically
if number is 3, next auto will give a proc
type beat
silent ruin
Ya I get that, I was asking about guarantee
sick condor
tricks
twilit phoenix
bruh eleem's mythic parses are insane
small juniper
bro hows the top log on broodtwister 5 mil as assa
what kind of asian sorcery is that
uneven scarab
Some very unethical gameplay going on im sure
edgy zenith
nah, super ethical honestly
look at his boss dam too
top boss dam log
the Assa funnel goes brrr
small juniper
im just gonna come right out and say it
the way assa does aoe
is by doing boss dmg
uneven scarab
Well yea
twilit phoenix
bro hows the top log on broodtwister 5 mil as assa
that dude is EU lol
it's kush's log
it was a giga group
kush got the top parse overall, not just assa
the other rogue in that group (zac) got 3rd parse overall
he's like 1mill+ ahead of the next law rogue
vestal escarp
bro hows the top log on broodtwister 5 mil as assa
Parasite infest
Dont die to it anymore
tepid trellis
thats actually beyond cringe
vestal escarp
dry burrow
Which of the PTR trinkets are looking good on sub atm, anyone know?
small juniper
it's kush's log
kush is in a guild called cyclical on a french server?
vestal escarp
vale pine
kush is in a guild called cyclical on a french server?
wait kush is french, didn't know
thougth he is swedish
twilit phoenix
oh wait you're right
maybe I'm spreading minsinformation
yeye mb that's some other dude
grand wyvern
anyone will stream ptr test?
twilit phoenix
bruh this CN rogue did an 18 DB as sub
vestal escarp
3 dps
vale pine
the boss seems fairly simple, no?
which boss is it they are testing
oh, there is a kind of bullet hell mechanic
hazy breach
bruh this CN rogue did an 18 DB as sub
Sub is fine, most routes are just centered around enhance so cooldown timings end up being kinda sus for 90s
silent ruin
if i cold blood on second sec tec, sometimes cause of mechanics i find i'm off by 1-3 seconds on transmitter expiring , doesn't this end up being an overall dps loss - compared cold blooding first sec tec
edgy zenith
you have to min/max your transmitter timing to easily get it in the window
if you're trickster, should easily work every time
DS is a little tighter
but still possible if you min/max the transmitter
this is assuming you have shaman buff
silent ruin
hmm, ya i get what you are saying - ideally with trickster at what seconds remaining does the second one go off
2-3 seconds right ?
edgy zenith
like 2-4 depending on procs, yeah
silent ruin
so, ya, if mistakes are made in shadowcraft refills, you lose a gcd, and screw that timing, correct ?
edgy zenith
mistakes will absolutely scuff it, yeah
silent ruin
sigh, make it 20 second trinket 😄
edgy zenith
you need like a min of 2 or 3 shadowcrafts I think
think it's 2
which is almost guaranteed with shaman buff
without, you'll get unlucky like 1/6 times
silent ruin
hmm
ok thanks !
but my followup / original question, if the CB squeeze can't be done with transmitter, isn't it better to CB on first sec tec ?
kind bluff
Wait are we not supposed to CB the first sectec on opener?
silent ruin
no
you want to sec tec with transmitter + flag max stacks on the second one
but unless you have full uptime, it's hard to replicate within transmitter window
within flaggelation window is ez
by replicate - i mean do it consistently
wind canopy
Wait are we not supposed to CB the first sectec on opener?
It's a 0.5% gain iirc
edgy zenith
you want to sec tec with transmitter + flag max stacks on the second one
it's more about flawless form stacks than flag
but ye
kind bluff
Cool deal, I was working off the wowhead guide which had it on first ikk swap it.
wind canopy
I mean, it's not a complete loss to do it first. One less keybind for that
silent ruin
ya but swapping looks like a bad deal, unless you got flawless fingers 😄
which is why ive been asking around about it
edgy zenith
but my followup / original question, if the CB squeeze can't be done with trans...
and it's hard to quantify which one is better if you fuck it up, because if you crit the last sectech, it doesn't matter.
you're already losing your last sectech in the transmitter window which is a big loss regardless
silent ruin
what do you play good sir 😄 first cb or second
silent ruin
which ones ?
edgy zenith
ansurek for example
silent ruin
i see
random cairn
how are we suposed to play betwen dances?
edgy zenith
3rd root set, first sectech CB is better
first flag in P3 second is better
just depends on the situation
btu generally speaking, send it on the second is best
edgy zenith
yeah, I would send:
- [pull] second,
- [1:30] first
- [first platform] second (ONLY IF your guild allows you to get the 2nd sectech on platform 1)
- [start of p3] second
- [end of fight] second (ONLY IF you're sending last flag on last mini spider (infest) set; if using on last big add set, use on first)
wind canopy
how are we suposed to play betwen dances?
Just plan. Check for if CDs are coming up, if so just chill.
Do maintenance stuff, get some hits in when you can
edgy zenith
again this is SUPER min/max-y @silent ruin
silent ruin
ok noted, thanks ! we're just past shield break but nothing after arriving at platform
edgy zenith
but that is the ideal CB usage above
random cairn
Just plan. Check for if CDs are coming up, if so just chill.
But we still send Sectec with SoD+SD every time? I'm finding myself out of charges for second Flag window
wind canopy
But we still send Sectec with SoD+SD every time? I'm finding myself out of charg...
That's why you plan. If you know you're having CDs come up, you chill.
Sometimes, you'll send ST with SoD/Dance. Sometimes, just ST with SoD. Sometimes just with Dance. Sometimes, just ST.
It's not like sin where you have a 2 min CD and a 1 minute CD.
kind bluff
Any good trackers for dance and sod?
lilac stag
What are you trying to track?
random cairn
Okey, on dummy i saw that between first and second flag i had to Sod+tech without SD, and after that maybe i was missing a SoD and staying at 2 SD charges, maybe there is the SD+sectec without SoD?
man this is interesting
kind bluff
We stop using sectec at 30ish second to flag right?
edgy zenith
depends, but mostly yes
you can send it with a Symbols if you can afford it
but if you don't have symbols, don't do it
that's only for ST too
on AoE that number is slightly different (lower)
kind bluff
Yea aoe ot comes up faster of course
edgy zenith
it's better to undersend sectechs that aren't in CDs than oversend
delaying flag like 10s is worse than missing a naked sectech cast
that goes for symbols and dance too
undersend first, then learn if you can send an extra later
making your 90s burst as good as possible is the most important thing
silent ruin
Hey, @edgy zenith , could I message you privately about queen, please
edgy zenith
yeah
kind bluff
Just to double check we shadow blades after sectec to make it line up with the second sectec correct?
small juniper
no
hazy breach
You dont need to shadowblade earlier
Since premed gives you full CP anywya
So delaying it 2 globals doesnt actually lose you much, it just gains you 2 seconds later
wheat edge
randomly in a mythic pug on my noob sub rogue, do I play trickster or deathstalker on ulgrax or does it not matter?
hazy breach
It doesnt particularly matter, play whichever you want
grand wyvern
is it better to send cb on cd with the first sec tec available or should i hold it for the big sec tec in major cds?
hazy breach
It is better to always have cb on the second sectech yep
grand wyvern
yeah but what i mean is do i send one in between cds or just hold?
hazy breach
If you can use it almost immediately when its ready its fine to send inbetween
But every second you delay cb is a second you need to delay flag, which typically isnt worth
grand wyvern
thanks got it
small juniper
anyone else done 3.4 mil dps on broodtwister
hazy breach
So typically you'd want a dance right as cb gets ready so you can sectech
But if you miss that then gg hold
bleak wind
anyone else done 3.4 mil dps on broodtwister
how are your all stars looking like?
small juniper
how are your all stars looking like?
no idea, private logs
bleak wind
you can't see it?
vale pine
people/guides still private log?
wheat edge
If ur not liquid echo or method why would you private log 
Looking at parse numbers is like 50% of the fun to be had
alpine wraith
you just spawn extra parasites
tepid trellis
anyone else done 3.4 mil dps on broodtwister
atleast you didn't do a 300 parasite spawn run xD
vale pine
guilds might be afraid that other guilds steal their players
i did hear about that problem quite a bit
hazy breach
i did hear about that problem quite a bit
Idk seems like cope to me, if people want to leave and join another guild theyll do that regardless
But ye tons of people say that
edgy zenith
well it's more like poaching
edgy zenith
the point is: it's harder to poach if logs are private
hazy breach
Marginally maybe
small juniper
top guilds dont rly look at the logs
slightly maybe
but ye its more just reputation etc
bleak wind
if you wanted to leave your guild you will link your private logs anyway if you are being poached then you wanted to be poached
edgy zenith
Marginally maybe
lil bro is CB on second sectech and is saying "marginally"
alpine wraith
always have logs as personal private just in case
hazy breach
lil bro is CB on second sectech and is saying "marginally"
Huh
edgy zenith
my point is: if it's better, why not do it
bleak wind
a good reason is because it might be very inconvenient for a small gain and could lead to other mistakes effectively making it a loss overall (as to why you wouldn't do the marginal thing)
hazy breach
Point is if people are willing to get poached they'll probably leave soon anyway
So it doesnt really change much
edgy zenith
that's not true. people are much more incentivized to leave if someone else is already wanting you elsewhere
people are lazy as hell
small juniper
impossible to go past a certain point as well unless u want to make raiding ur entire life
basically every guild in top 10 is 7 days now
top 20 even
hazy breach
Theres so many "3 day guilds" that raid 4 or 5 times the first 2-3 weeks too in the top 100 range
Inflation hits hard
small juniper
yeah ofc
and a little non mandatory heroic run on a non raid day
if u dont show up u get kicked tho
steel zinc
basically every guild in top 10 is 7 days now
no
project doesnt
actually know that for a fact
they have probably the best none day raiders in the game rn
small juniper
thats why i said basically
theres a few rly good guild
s
project is one
ethical is good too
most of the other ones raid past their schedule
steel zinc
I mean I get it if you had the queen at like 20% and you raid 2 days and hof closes and you said cmon lets try to get it on the last day I think thats fine
but some are just cooked raiding as 3 day guild 4 days for 6 weeks
bro thats kinda joking
hazy breach
https://x.com/otpoliceoce?lang=en
This shit was good content back in the day
Twitter
steel zinc
or arguing we take a day off during xmas or have xmas holidays thats why we raid 8 days in prog 😄
tulip gorge
steel zinc
No u should do it
bleak wind
0.6% is a bit ambitious
upper narwhal
i thought i read 0.6% somewhere could be lying for fun tho
bleak wind
nah its like 0.1 maybe 0.2 at best
hazy breach
The 0.6% is if you only ever use it for the second and never inbetween
upper narwhal
ahh