subtlety

[round latch]

definitely like more deathstalker,did some pvp on my orc rogue so ik how to cook them cds

idk im rly hyped to play sub now

will see how it ends,gonna hit the dummy and do some low keys,chatting is lost time

[haughty mural]

i mean even in the sheet (if thats completely up to date), its not even 100k

and what are 100k nowadays 😛

but i get what you mean buddy 🙂

[alpine wraith]

deathstalker can be easier for some people

[haughty mural]

try out both and decide

[alpine wraith]

if you still didnt get used to trickster

[haughty mural]

and yea this, esp if you're coming from sin i suppose

[alpine wraith]

i mean it is even so easy to do the opener

strike flag rupture storm rupture mousever then just go in

if you dont have snd evis instead of first rupture

[plush roost]

Are people feeling DS on queen at all? In my head its more boss dam, more spiderling dam. But loses cleave on shackles and acolytes in p3 to trickster. Thoughts? I haven't pulled boss yet just thinking

Trickster on the surface looks like a shoe in, but idk maybe theres some tech

[alpine wraith]

both have their annoying things

on one hand coup deaths

on the other hand cdr krangle and parries

[grizzled hornet]

i tried DS, the amount of parries you will see will make you hit respec

[round latch]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[round latch]

do we cook a sod WA to track stacks/duration or we dont care all that much

basicly nvm gonna make one myself

[alpine wraith]

not really you just use SoD when you are about to use sec tech again

as for cdr problems you kinda have to eyeball it i have some guidelines but they are not 100%

[round latch]

yup we want that boy going big

yeah im around that already

sub is fun

i dont like nado on trickster though

its weird

[alpine wraith]

yea tornado is not a biggest hit

[vague oar]

I'm lazy and I kinda just use sod in a macro with dance

[keen dome]

Same

[vague oar]

I just make sure sectec has <10s left b4 I dance

So it'll be either my first or second finisher always

[plush roost]

I like manual sod, it made getting triple dance before first charge on court more intuitive for me

[vague oar]

I liked triple dance. Kinda wish they didn't get rid of it

[plush roost]

Same

Who knows maybe next tier set will do something with dance cdr

[swift tinsel]

turns our shadow clones to goblins

[vague oar]

Make our next tier set be shadow reflections from wod plz

[plush roost]

Gta my friend

[vague oar]

Love that ability wish they'd bring it back

[plush roost]

Gamblin, tinkerin, launderin

[round latch]

first dance or mos if we ditch nado is legit right?

[alpine wraith]

you never take first dance off

so you kinda change tornado for vt

[round latch]

using the fuu build,has no first dance or vt

need to search deeper

archon it is

[hazy breach]

Tfd resets doesnt work in sims

Wm stinky, use tfd

[haughty mural]

prolly smth like that

[round latch]

ah i cyup thx

just as my sim is poping

checking the numbers as well

not a big deal anyway

so it goes down to nado vs vt

cool cool

[haughty mural]

yes

[warm depot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[round latch]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[lethal mesa]

the aoe build that is pinned in here is it more for aoe raid or M+?

[vale pine]

works for both

[lethal mesa]

is there a build more for m+ though or is that one pretty good on it

i did see people saying nado wasnt too good so i went with the other build on it

[hazy breach]

Not sure what the question is

Theres 2 different builds in the pins, one for m+ and one for raid, both for deathstalker

Oh i guess its because i worded it aoe and not m+

[lethal mesa]

all good ty

[lethal thorn]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[young path]

First dance and tornado give unbelievably high output in m+ if u ramp correctly, I really encourage people to try it

[vale pine]

the first dance is rly nice

[vestal escarp]

a bunch of minutes hitting 5 dummies as DB finality

the sustained pad in the form of rupture and CtB are not what i expected

[swift tinsel]

DB and Finality both buff rupture so its not entirely surprising

[quaint lodge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[maiden smelt]

So currently sub rogue is better in raid then assa? thinking to swap for sub for rest of the tier

[patent crystal]

about the same

[lucid jackal]

4sure better

but u gotta play it properly and have the gear for it the same way u do with sin

all 3 rogue specs do abt the same damage so it's just about playing well and having the right gear setup

[maiden smelt]

Understood. Thank you

[vestal escarp]

those you mentioned are low

[round latch]

as in better or worse?

coz my numbers say trickster is kinda better for m+ still

[stoic granite]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hybrid prism]

I use dark brew and finality over death perception and the rotten. I like the fantasy better and DB sims .05% worse for me. Plus when I play DP I get trigger happy and always overlap my symbols

[hazy breach]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[hybrid prism]

nifty

[vestal escarp]

i wanted to test a more sustained oriented build

sustained dmg is still a far concept for sub

[round latch]

yeah thats not a sub thing for sure 😦

we just exhale on our cds

[humble smelt]

how much better is sub than sin in raid?

[strange chasm]

Still gotta get DS down

Too used to slamming Cdr with trickster

DS is slower

[round latch]

DS hits much harder though

those evis hurt

[humble smelt]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[strange chasm]

Yeah. For DS what's the rule on dance with flag remaining cdr?

I find I send dances then don't have quite enough

[hazy breach]

Theyre about the same

[hazy breach]

Not sure what you mean

[swift tinsel]

Like when you stop dancing to have double for flag?

[strange chasm]

Like with trickster I know if I have 20s remaining on flag to hold a dance

And 40s on the 2nd charge

[mighty ravine]

o/ by curiosity, there is already any sim for new racial on 11.0.7 ? i know they arn't a big deal, but still curious :p

[hazy breach]

Maghar is slightly better than regular orc

But its

[mighty ravine]

i'm curious on what zanda and vulp :p (yea i'm weak on cuty vulp... @_@ they have a so funny big bubble head xD)

[vale pine]

or we just dwarfing for bleed removal

[mighty ravine]

yea, that the opti way, not fun 😄 and not on horde side ( 😢 )

look this little cuty shit, he say I will stab your toes !

[worn cape]

So, for the burst window I have been doing Flagellation -> Shadow Blades -> Shadow Dance -> Symbols of Death -> Shadowstrike -> Secret Technique. But from Eleem's video I just realized that both Shadow Blades & Shadow Dance give me full combo points, so using them right after eachother is kinda dumb. From the video I am gathering that I should do Flagellation -> Shadow Dance -> Symbols of Death -> Shadowstrike -> Secret Technique -> Shadow Blades -> Shadowstrike -> Eviscerate, is that correct?

[vale pine]

burst window every 1.5 minutes is
flag first then 2x dance/symbols/secret, dance casts back to back

[hazy breach]

You would want to rupture (or eviscerate if you refreshed rupture right before)

after the flagellation

Before you go into dance to have a couple extra flag stacks

[teal olive]

Hi deathstalker in M+ is now ok, but we play more with Suriken et Black powder ?

[lilac stag]

Yes. Tricky still marginally better in m+

[alpine wraith]

yea for the general public trickster and deathstalker are almost the same

only big pullers into bosses deathstalker comes ahead

[teal olive]

but tricktser play around Nimble flurry. DS is only playing around Shuriken and black powder ?

[lilac stag]

Tricky plays around nimble and black powder

evis is more prio, bp is more aoe

You just don’t shuriken a lot

[teal olive]

Yes but powder is worth for big pulls, 5 targets i play evis

[hazy breach]

5 targets you bp

4 targets evis

But you gotta use a rotten charge on storm to apply find weakness

Then you keep striking (this is all for trickster)

[teal olive]

ok but DS is only around Shuriken and bp

[hazy breach]

And eviscerate with darkest night ye

[teal olive]

both hero specs are doing fine in M+ so its a good news for Sub

[lilac stag]

Nah. can be taken out back and shot.

Fucking awful

[teal olive]

You play Trickter in raid ?

[lilac stag]

Yes

[swift tinsel]

Its beautiful

Trickster called to wish me a happy birthday, Deathstalker left a flaming bag of poop on my doorstep

[sinful sluice]

what do you guys think of ovinax ring on sub

super high mastery but haste is just bad for the talent right?

[worn cape]

Does it matter at how many combo points?

[hazy breach]

Ideally full

[worn cape]

but if it would take multiple backstabs to get full CP, then not?

[hazy breach]

Well if youre at 0 its fine to just send

But you should try to be at full

(aka just dont eviscerate if flag is ready)

[worn cape]

Right, get full CP, then flag and then eviscerate

[alpine wraith]

not that good but there are worse

[vestal escarp]

kekstalker

[alpine wraith]

ideally you play boe ring and the one from dawnbreaker

or a crafted one

[sinful sluice]

yeah

im just using high vers boe ring + crafted

[lilac stag]

Ring getting replaced in 12 days

[alpine wraith]

or not if they dont buff it

[sinful sluice]

what did ya guys vote on ulgrax logs?

[alpine wraith]

what vote

[sinful sluice]

i think if we exlude adds dmg no ones gonna ever do dmg to adds = cancer

they are doing a vote on wow logs

[jaunty heath]

You can vote on add dmg across the raid

[sinful sluice]

whether they should remove adds dmg or just remove from allstarts

[jaunty heath]

Cringe as flip

[sinful sluice]

i just did allstars tho

theres vote about queen ansurek tombs as well

[clever delta]

rogue masterrace, 4x rogue setup on silken 😄

got the neck:)

guys its only me or someone have this that sometimes forget to jump 3rd time with trans 😄

[paper siren]

I’m new to sub and I downed mythic uglrax but I’m trying to figure out I’m doing so bad (parsed a 20)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/z8TWqLH1YJDvwVg2#fight=16&type=damage-done

[swift tinsel]

You're not supercharging your sectech which is a big loss

[still trellis]

delete me suck ignore

but you need an on use thats for sure (skardyns or transmitter)

[hazy breach]

Just transmitter

[swift tinsel]

You're also sending blades without flag

[hazy breach]

LFR transmitter is better than mythic skardyn

[sinful sluice]

Ive got a question regarding the deathstalker opener

[worn cape]

Should I do LFR each week to try to get transmitter? 😮

[sinful sluice]

after the regular opener(ss-flag-evis-vanish-ss-rupture-dance symbol-sectech-SB), i dont have second sectech back soon enough to use it on next symbol/dance

[paper siren]

So I should use blade with flag always?

[sinful sluice]

should i hold my dance/smbols a bit ? cuz this feels quite wierd

[swift tinsel]

Yes, you should aim to cast blades after flag in your cd windows

there's a few times you're sending secret technique without symbols of death up as well

[swift tinsel]

this scuffed sequence def cost you damage there and down the line

Some target dummy practice with lining things up will def help

so you get a better feel for how the moving parts and cooldowns work together

[paper siren]

Ok ok I really appreciate the help

[swift tinsel]

Sure thing! There's also a log review thread you can start if you want people to look at them more in-depth but I think for now spending some time practicing with any of the wowhead/icy veins/method guides will help

because with sub especially, properly lining up your major and minor cooldowns makes or breaks your damage entirely

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[swift tinsel]

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1271971289396936735 also very helpful

[sinful sluice]

in this kind of sitation i should hold my dance+symbols a bit until i get my sectech back for supercharger right?

[plush roost]

Yes, you want your first finisher in dance to be sec tec

Thats the lull in sub, backstab for cdr

[sinful sluice]

is it only me that i have to wait about 2 secs in first opner in order to use second sectech with supercharger

something seems really off but cant find out why

[turbid saddle]

u use the second super charger for sec tec

[sinful sluice]

i use second dance when first dance is over, and symbols when first symbol is at 3secs

yeah but still, i end up doing two evis in a row to get sectech back

[turbid saddle]

its abit of a eyeballing thing depending on the unmber of procs u get and gcds u miss or not

generally just symbols when ur next gcd gets ur sectech back

u would still have symbols on u active

this would be around when ur symbols is around 2 or 1

[sinful sluice]

so its normal that its kinda tight right?

[turbid saddle]

wdym by tight

[sinful sluice]

i barely have sectech back for superchargers

or id have to wait ~2secs for sectech to get back for supercharger

https://youtu.be/hBERhXOdiYg?si=qc9H9yCMqDjA5tb4

so its like this

this time it was bit better but sometimes i have to wait 2~3 secs

[turbid saddle]

first thing i noticed is dont shuriken storm like that

[leaden prairie]

yo

wtf are these sounds

crazy

[turbid saddle]

xd

[sinful sluice]

its maplestory rogue soundpack lol

[leaden prairie]

[sinful sluice]

so do i ignore the clear the witness proc inside cd window?

[hazy breach]

You'd delay symbols

Yes

Storm only replaces backstab, strike is better

[sinful sluice]

oki

i guess ill modify the WA to not pop during shadow dance

[turbid saddle]

clear outside of symbols

[sinful sluice]

and for delaying the symbols, do i not cast it in 3 secs pandemic window of first symbols?

[hazy breach]

You can, but you dont need to

Since we have charges you dont lose anything by delaying it

And if you gain a supercharger on sectech by delaying, theres no reason not to

So you wouldnt symbols unless sectech has ~10s or so left of its cd

[sinful sluice]

damn i just realized how thoughtless ive been playing on sub

there was so much more to care about

e.g i just sent out dance/symbols even if i dont have angle for supercharger sectechs

[turbid saddle]

@hazy breach u dont use cb in normal dance/sectech if u know it wont be back for 2nd sec tech later in flag right?

[sinful sluice]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns.
The following macros are an exception:yaml /cast Cold Blood /cast Secret Technique

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[haughty mural]

You will get there buddy

[hazy breach]

Ye

[turbid saddle]

i wonder how big it actually is

since u prolly get more cb casts by just using it on every sec tec thats ready

[hazy breach]

The difference between only using it on second sectech in burst and macroing it is roughly 0.5%

[turbid saddle]

is that like a 5 min sim

[hazy breach]

Yes

[sinful sluice]

do i have to manually track CB for maxing my dmg as well?

[turbid saddle]

ok thats p good still

free id say

[sinful sluice]

ive been just macroing with sectech and never cared

[turbid saddle]

i mean as Eleem just said its 0.5%

u can just ignore it and play with cb on sec tech macro

most ppl do that anyways

[sinful sluice]

alright

[turbid saddle]

oh is also deathstalker only or trickster?

[hazy breach]

both

[turbid saddle]

oh ok

thought trickster would be prolly bit higher

anyways ty

[sinful sluice]

imma bout to use DS for everythig except bloodbound horror and court

time to test out new black powder

[bleak wind]

DS better for second boss imo

[alpine wraith]

unironically tornado boss

and i hate it

happy i got my good log while no degen DS was possible

[sinful sluice]

so everyhing except court?

[alpine wraith]

you could play DS on court but it will be annoying

same as in queen

[sinful sluice]

yeah ive been doing assa DS on court

and juggling DS stacks is kinda aids

and sometimes have to use vanish for that

[alpine wraith]

as sub you can just strike

but still annoying

[sinful sluice]

so on bloodbound horror do i just torando - powder inside?

that seems quite chill

[bleak wind]

I would play trickster for queen as well

[sinful sluice]

ive heard queen is easier then court now

hopefully we can kill court this week and get to queen asap

[alpine wraith]

im playing trickster on queen

fuck DS

no parries in this town

[bleak wind]

DS felt very shit

also you wanna see something sad

https://gyazo.com/2746abfcb55cbfb7ff0a2bba744d5c88

I was dead for 40sec

[alpine wraith]

aaaay

[bleak wind]

lost like 100k+ probably

[sinful sluice]

what does that mean

92.59

[bleak wind]

that is uptime

[alpine wraith]

time alive kinda

[sinful sluice]

ahh

still got you 100

👍

[bleak wind]

ye but could've been miles ahead

[alpine wraith]

what boss was that

[bleak wind]

queen

missed entire second platform

[sinful sluice]

im planning to run sub this week for the raid

any tips for using cds outside the gimmicks?

its kinda cancer to stop dmg on cd window

should i just hold until its confrimed that im not the one

[hazy breach]

What stop damage

[sinful sluice]

so for example

on kyveza queensbane

if i use cds before and i get selected

[lucid jackal]

Its just 1 queensbane right

[sinful sluice]

i have to stop dmg for few secs right

[lucid jackal]

do u even lose a cast

[hazy breach]

Depends on killtimers, but mostly no

[sinful sluice]

so i was wondering if i only cast symbols+dance when its 100% safe to use

[hazy breach]

The only scuffed one is the pop at 3 min

But since you should probably hold onto your 4:30 pop for potions anyway might aswell delay the 3 min one so you cant get screwed over

[lucid jackal]

Theres only like, 1 awkward time with cds

[lucid jackal]

ye exactly

CUz otherwise u lose potion

[sinful sluice]

im looking at logs rn

i never tracked potion tbh, do you guys use potions manually?

[lucid jackal]

nop

[sinful sluice]

ive just macroed it with flag

[lucid jackal]

Yep

U should just make sure that ur cds lineup with potion is all

matters on a few fights

[sinful sluice]

i kinda miss no brainer assa rogue rn

[lucid jackal]

play it then

[sinful sluice]

nah

[lucid jackal]

ALl 3 rogue specs r good rn

[sinful sluice]

i wanna get better at sub

maybe 1 month of headbutting into raid will make me better

[hazy breach]

The pot thing applies to assa as well fwiw

(or any spec in the game for that matter)

[fair stump]

Maybe I'm just bad but I'm parsing less as DS than trickster on princess lol

[alpine wraith]

that can happen but it is less likely

3% is kinda on the rng factor too

same reason i went mastery instead of vers

more rng

just CRIT

[fair stump]

Not just parsing less, doing more or less the same amount of dmg than I did 10 ilvls ago

[alpine wraith]

skill issue likely

also i found a thing a bit

if you are outside cds and have 1 mark left

it is worth to build to 5 then pool until almost full energy

so you can do a double finisher kinda and not lose mark uptime

[fair stump]

Oh, 4 ilvls ago, not 10

I'll just stick to trickster, DS is too much skill issue for me

[little saddle]

Can i play sublety with dagger and sword

¿?

[hazy breach]

Technically yes, but you'd do significantly less damage

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[little saddle]

ok thx 🙂

[clever delta]

why ppl still hating on sub, my 20 rank parse on silken is like 93 meanwhile rank 20 as assa would give like 98

[coarse agate]

Should I just Macro SD to SecTec?

[sinful sluice]

i dont think you can

you can macro CB

[hazy breach]

Would not recommend as you often end up striking after dancing, but yes sometimes you sectech right after dancing

But during your burst you can also end up using eviscerates, so theres no good spell to macro together

[coarse agate]

I see.. thank you.

What about Symbols of Death?

[hazy breach]

Also not ideal

[coarse agate]

I'm thinking about how to use Supercharger better

[hazy breach]

Its less bad than the previous suggestion, but if you'd do you would not supercharge one of your sectechs in the opener

Because ideally you dance and delay symbols a global or two

[coarse agate]

I see!

[clever delta]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[plush roost]

Well not everyone has a sub set. If you're gearing primarily sin, you won't have much verse

Ik i wouldn't play sub if i was rocking 14% haste, 4% verse and 27% crit

[alpine wraith]

that would be interesting yea

[clever delta]

idk i did not gear for any spec specially, you dont have much of chooose from

[plush roost]

I mean kinda same, but if i had to choose between bis sin setup or subpar sub I'd just play sin

[fair stump]

Huh, really?

I always danced + symbols with 7cp for sectec

Not as a macro, but since I press them at the same time

[alpine wraith]

second dance you cant do that

[hazy breach]

Well your sectech isnt ready when your first dance ends

[fair stump]

I always assumed we didn't dance unless we had sectec

[hazy breach]

Well you want sectech in every dance yes

But you also want your dance inside blades and transmitter

And you can fit the sectech anyway, just not the first global

[fair stump]

So you keep dancing in cds?

I just waited the sectec cd

[hazy breach]

You dance twice backtoback yes

[fair stump]

And then danced

You hold symbols though, right?

[hazy breach]

Yesnt

You can use symbols when sectech has 10s left

Since one eviscerate is gonna make it be ready anyway

[fair stump]

So sectec would be the second charge?

Huh

[hazy breach]

Yes

[fair stump]

That will change my rotation a bit

I hope its a dps improvement

[quaint lodge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dawn hinge]

do you guys recommend elusiveness or cd for kyveza

[sinful sluice]

for me elusivness felt super OP

cloak queensbane, feint intermission swords, use evasion on last 10 secs of intermission

cant die

[tribal blade]

you're trolling if you don't run elusiveness

[short radish]

+1 to the above

sub is so comfy on kyveza

you just dont die

[lucid jackal]

cd doesn't work on the boss so

Run elus

[dawn hinge]

yeah, felt like that with the execute, but wanted to check before diving headfirst

ty all

[small juniper]

np

[alpine wraith]

np

cheat is quite useless on the last 3 bosses

[clever delta]

i mean cheat save you on last boss from lot of fuck ups

blades waves or balls

[pliant topaz]

cheat also saves you on kyveza from her execute...

and queensbane doesnt do shit to you anymore

unless your healers litearlly dont have fingers

[clever delta]

true

but im playing on kyveza with two tanks

so its always spicy

with DH on my left

[tribal blade]

10 mists, not too shabby

muscle memory starting to sink in a bit more

[sinful sluice]

#showtooltip symbols of death
/cast symbols of death
/cast shadow dance

how to i put castsequence in this macro in order to prevent casting multiple times?

[alpine wraith]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[alpine wraith]

you cant put it with dance

[round latch]

u can put it into sod though

its just stilly complicated

and its not worth it

the general idea behind cast sequence is the reset time as a ''block'' factor u put on the action

its something like

/castsequence [options] reset=condition1/... action1, action2, ...

[sinful sluice]

i have that macro on my sod but wanted to make it for my opener too

well if cant thats fine

[round latch]

from my experience,i woudl advice u,dont ever put dance on any short of cs macro

u can pact it,its a thing in pvp,even there ppl avoid it coz it backfires

[upbeat sorrel]

DS or trickyster

[tribal blade]

trickster 😉

i'm practicing the BP rotation

[upbeat sorrel]

same its a little tricky outside of dance

i keep scuffing it

[tribal blade]

it's just the muscle memory of alternating between strike and BP is weird, it's never been a thing before

so mostly just trying to get it to the point where i can do that w/o thinking

[upbeat sorrel]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[upbeat sorrel]

outside of dance as trickster in aoe/m+, do i use BP or is it dependent if i have flawless form up

[sinful sluice]

idk why haste is simming better

thought it was dogwater stat for sub no?

both of those sim better then double kukuri suprisingly

[wind canopy]

It's not great, but it's not completely dogwater.

[sinful sluice]

#showtooltip Symbols of Death
/cast shadow dance
/castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null
/cqs

would this work? ive been testing it and seems like its working tho

[round latch]

u have put dance over a cs sod macro which makes unable to activate sod twice if u spam the same macro

u basicly put this

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[round latch]

into a /dance

still not recommended but if u think its fine sure

[sinful sluice]

i guess ill just stick to whatever i have rn

thanks for helping

[round latch]

the sod cs macro isnt the same as complicated cs macros btw

u can add many skills in a sequence,hence a sequence..

[sinful sluice]

i might just fix my entire keysettings tbh

its really random since ive started wow this season and didnt know shit back tehn

then*

[round latch]

idk my man,this is kinda deep dive into macro/binding.Ive spend years on perfecting my binds n stuff but tbh i ditched pretty fast cs macros

[sinful sluice]

so i have opener macro on shift+q / evis on q

[round latch]

cool,thats awesome,bind to ur own comfort

thats binding all about

[sinful sluice]

yeah it might take some time for me to get used to it

but i really gotta do smt about them

haha what a mess i dont even use 3,4...

[round latch]

it might take time,takes practice but elevates ur control to a complete diff lvl

ye this has to be fixed

u can compress all those to mod macros

[sinful sluice]

cuz when ur new to game u kinda just fit everything on blank spot right

and i just got used to that cursed settings

[round latch]

yup

e.g u have shift- c for sap and c for flag which might be once moded

u can double mode it

use alt

😉

e.g ive got F => Feint,shift-F =>Clos,Alt - F evasion

all in one mod macro

also ctrl- F for tricks

but im not using last,im using a mofus macro to constantly swap focus and throw stuff from focus

kicks and all

[grave mist]

just double checking, is bubbling wax still comparably good as it was at the start of the expansion?

[tepid trellis]

its aite but it is worse

but we are talking so little

difference

[grave mist]

Ah so just stick to whetstone per usual then

for m+ btw

[round latch]

irrelevant question but did u see the final fantasy world race thingy?

you did,didnt you

[tepid trellis]

nope

[tribal blade]

do you guys think we see 20s being timed with the ring on the new patch

i heard one of the chinese dks say they likely time a 20, but seeing how incredibly difficult it is to time 19s already i'm not so sure

[keen dome]

Maybe, it's gonna be interesting to see how strong the ring is and how long it takes to get to that point.

[tribal blade]

yeah might see some 20s being timed, but i suspect it'll be just as rare as timing a 19 is right now

[haughty mural]

man i wish pugs could time 10s on a regular basis

but yea i could see 20s times with the ring

[haughty mural]

how you like it after playing it a bit ?

[tribal blade]

it's not so bad once i'm not completely inting the rotation!

trickster still feels better than DS, even with the buffs to DS

trickster's synergy with sub is just so good

[haughty mural]

yea i somehow beginning to like it that way tbh

It really does

[lilac stag]

Just add in the BP with tricky.

https://tenor.com/view/blackpink-rose-blackpink-rose-hearts-rose-blackpink-heart-rose-blackpink-smile-gif-23293297

[lilac stag]

ethical sub dps is a relic of the old republic.

How’s court prog?

[tribal blade]

not too bad! we're basically almost done, just need to kill the boss

we're getting a lot of deep P3 pulls

[lilac stag]

sweet

[tribal blade]

it's usually dispels getting messed up on the final set wiping us

and people panicking in general

[lilac stag]

Ngl. 40 minutes of princess pulls were the happiest I’ve been in game in weeks.

[tribal blade]

haha dude i was so happy to prog princess

after the clusterfuck of ovinax

princess is also a super chill boss for rogues

[haughty mural]

just kill it

[tribal blade]

REEEE

[lilac stag]

I’ll take my blue prog parse and wear it proudly.

[tribal blade]

i'm looking forward to doing queen

[lilac stag]

especially for ignoring assa all tier.

[tribal blade]

i'm kinda over people killing me on court

i think court is honestly one of the most tilting bosses you can do in some ways

[lilac stag]

Queen looks easier than court now

[tribal blade]

if you're actually doing mechanics

[lilac stag]

Court looks like some Final Fantasy transplant into WoW

[tribal blade]

it's just very tilting when other people are messing up and it murders you

[lilac stag]

Can imagine

[tribal blade]

btw tip for court prog

is be very vocal about people not doing orb soaks

the drive bys are easy to fix because it's so obvious what happened

the orbs are less obvious

[short radish]

so many people seem to hate princess for some reason

but its such a nice chill fight

maybe its the 30% DR talking though

[lilac stag]

I may have went into drill sergeant voice on last egg break when someone was 1 yards away from the break

[tribal blade]

i don't get it, it's so easy for rogues, i legit dealt with the queensbane debuff 1 time during prog

[short radish]

yeah ikr

[tribal blade]

one time on court on my side we had 2 orbs about to go off, and i had 2 stacks

i called it and pinged it

then ran to get 1, the other went off and so i had 4 stacks and died

[lilac stag]

I have to figure out the defensives but even with my messed up eyes I’m enjoying it

[tribal blade]

i told my RL to check what happened, turns out 4 people next to the orbs had 0 stacks

so legit call people out

court is such a shitty fight when you have people who are either lazy or just plain bad

or trying to parse

[tribal blade]

it's mostly use your feint charges as you get lines during intermission, then evasion for the last set

[lilac stag]

People trying to purple on first kills makes me menty

[haughty mural]

the worst

[tribal blade]

it's really bad when melee are trying to greed uptime on court

they drop double orbs

which is fucking horrible

the other side on my raid has all the melee and tanks

[lilac stag]

I have a funny feeling we will be no melees again.

[tribal blade]

and they've got a bunch of fucking parse monkeys there

so i'm constantly soaking doubles

[upbeat sorrel]

Our first court kill and general prog was pretty clean no one getting too greedy

I think we were just tired of pulling the boss

[tribal blade]

that's awesome

[upbeat sorrel]

Sometimes I didn't even have orbs to pick up everyone already got them all lol

[tribal blade]

I WISH I HAD THIS PROBLEM

on my side i'm constantly calling and pinging

[lilac stag]

the first kills always seem to be super clean or like 3 people left alive holding on for dear life with a rogue trying to time use of evasion to tank.

[tribal blade]

and then usually ending up getting to 3 stacks

[upbeat sorrel]

Doing queen prog now its a bit tough but less overall mechanics I guess

Our damage was good though we skipped the last combo set of dispel and charge

Killed it during the dispel

[lilac stag]

Nice

[upbeat sorrel]

The determination buff makes it easier lol

[tribal blade]

apparently hpals can't really do orbs too

so the hpal is on our side and he's basically soaking almost none in P1

[lilac stag]

Our ovi kill lust felt wasted at the 6:15 mark or whatever it was.

[upbeat sorrel]

Our team is too ethical sometimes there is an orb a bit further out and like 3-4 people are all running to it

[tribal blade]

dude i would take that any day

[lilac stag]

I would as well

[tribal blade]

than me dying to being at 3 stacks and an orb going off

me and the dh on my team have been really on top of orbs, and it's killed us many times

[short radish]

speaking of hpal. make sure you dont put the disc priest and hpal on the same side for p2 when you get up to queen

[tribal blade]

good looking out!

[lilac stag]

Easier to tell one person to stop playing sweeper and just pump, then pull someone off pumper mode

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

why is that btw

[short radish]

because they cant heal when theres no adds

its just really awkward

[tribal blade]

ahhhh gotcha

[short radish]

we had both of htem on same side for some reason

and only after a night of prog was it

yeah can we swap sides

[tribal blade]

haha cool i posted that in our queen channel

[short radish]

glgl

[tribal blade]

now hopefully we actually kill court quickly on the next night

and it's not another 3 hours of wiping followed by a last pull magic kill

[lilac stag]

Just disc? Or is holy fine with hpal?

[short radish]

yeah just disc

as long as you dont have the two healers that require the ability to do damage

on the same side

[lilac stag]

Our priest is normally holy, but good to know

[dry plank]

On previous week we had like god pull 19% and on this wed it was like we first time pulling

[tribal blade]

haha yeah court has a way of doing that

[keen dome]

Just have every pull be the last pull.

[dry plank]

So many wipes on p1 even calm people start to tilting

[tribal blade]

so many ways to wipe

it does just take 1 person making a mistake to cause a wipe

it's wild

[dry plank]

I love this boss and enjoy prog tbh

Coz I can play sub omg

[lilac stag]

#lastpullenergy

[tribal blade]

T R U E

[vale pine]

is the last pull the best or the worse?

[alpine wraith]

usually

[raw wadi]

In imaginations it will be the best but most of the time it end up the worst

[tribal blade]

my guild actually has quite a few last pull magic kills

our best one was killing rasz on the last pull of the night to get HoF

and i think we were like one of the last guilds to make HoF that tier, just barely squeaked in

[vale pine]

nice, we often end on a good pull even tho we could do one more with little overtime

the last pull you didn't know was the last pull ^^

[tribal blade]

that's good for morale yeah 🙂

[lilac stag]

yes.

[keen dome]

Ending on a good pull, even if it isn't a kill is def the best way to do it. Makes people feel good.

[plush roost]

My magic end of night pulls have always been with me floor pov to something

Maybe thats the secret

I just need to die

The guild I'm trialing in had to reprog court a bit cause a few new people and the pull we kill is ofc the pull I get gunned down by a random red teamer haha

I guess i body guarded some of my blue teamers xd

[mental flume]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

it blows so hard when the pull you die is the kill pull

what'll tend to happen is you play perfect the entire night

and you die once- that's the kill pull (because fuck you)

[worn cape]

Dying on a kill is the worst

[keen dome]

[sage pond]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[plush roost]

My first Fyrakk kill was a floor pov die to firestorm in p3 pull too xddd

[glad raven]

Or you wipe when you're pumping

[vale pine]

it happens, boss is dead so nothing to worry about

[quartz tartan]

hello should i save flagellation for my second shadow blades or just use it on cd and should i have 2 shadow dance for shadow blade windows?

[turbid saddle]

is there any amount of target count that u would ignore evis with darkest night for bp?

[wind canopy]

Should always be using Flag in the same windows with SB. And you should have at least ~1.5 (or a little more) dances ready for each Flag/SB window.

[wind canopy]

No

[turbid saddle]

is that cus of prio dmg or just generaly its more loss? to just bp without getting deathstalker up

[wind canopy]

Prio damage.

What's the point of playing DS if you're never gonna reapply the mark?

[turbid saddle]

nah im talking abt sitautions

where shit lives very little

[hazy breach]

Overall damage too

Even though it feels bad, the eviscerate actually does a lot of damage

[quartz tartan]

say that i have 30s left on my shadow blade and 1 charge of shadow dance can i use it and still have time to get 1 and a half back when shadow blade gets of cd, hope you understand what i am trying too say

[hazy breach]

And if you dont use the eviscerate your mark wont work properly (even if you strike to apply it its buggy when darkest night is up)

[hazy breach]

As long as you can comfortably back to back dance during blades&flag its fine

But generally no if your dance cd just came up its unlikely youll be able to fit it with 30s on ST

[quartz tartan]

when should i wait with pressing shadow dance when i have 30-40-50 s left on shadow blade

[hazy breach]

It kinda depends

But 40s should be fine

Sometimes you can fit it though, you'll just have to get a feel for it. It also depends on how many targets you have and if you have to do mechanics and stuff

Ontop of cp regen being rng to begin with

[quartz tartan]

alright and 1 more with should i play trickster or deathstalker in m+, saw that top loggers in raid have switched to deathstalker

[hazy breach]

Id recommend trickster

[quartz tartan]

alright:)

[lone ore]

are there any good video guides for PvE subtlety? or a good mythic+ content creator for subtelty

[sullen hare]

Hachadino is

He's in here all the time too when it's not raid time

https://youtube.com/hachadino

[alpine wraith]

yea you can always @ me i dont really care that much

[sinful sluice]

Should i prepare my own rotation taking account of our raid guild’s killtime

[wild hornet]

is the parse secret to pad adds with sectec

[charred kestrel]

Is it pad if they have to die to?

[alpine wraith]

whole raid stacking in rasha nan to spawn 80 adds

100/100

[vestal escarp]

Wcl fussing about kardashian web traps

But still not doing something for rashanan adds

[leaden prairie]

rash aint on all stars

[old scroll]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[plush roost]

I got my 99 on rash, now i just play internal bleeding and kill the boss haha

[left ledge]

I hit boss

At all times

I don’t even know how to parse anymore

I’m too old now

Washed up

[plush roost]

Kill boss, get good log on reclear mhm mhm

[left ledge]

Hell nah

[plush roost]

Wait

[left ledge]

Just get me out of the reclears asap

[plush roost]

Wtf you profile pic just swapped

[left ledge]

Yeah probably from tien to a gloomblade

[plush roost]

Wildin

[left ledge]

Discord bug

My server pfp is diff than normal

So sometimes it loads weird

[plush roost]

Ahh that'll do ot

[left ledge]

I forget when I even last parsed

I think first DF raid

Sub rogue needs more players man

[lilac stag]

too big brained for most dps players

[plush roost]

Blizzard just needs to make buttons light up

You pressed symbols? Oh look sec tec lit up lets press that button

[hazy breach]

Boss dps enjoyers

[lilac stag]

boss dmg + big hit = winning

If only we had some decent spell animations.

[plush roost]

All i want

Is a purple flourish from darkest night

And a real animation for coup

CtW could have a cloud of shadow dust or poison dust pop out

Unseenblade is fine

Idk just smthn

[lilac stag]

Coup has a real animation. You just don’t see it unless you charge

[forest furnace]

what even is causing the dash

[hazy breach]

Coup de grace

[wide magnet]

i hate the coup dash so much

[forest furnace]

i literally had no idea it had a dash to it until a few days ago. says nothing about it on the tooltip i just figured i was being gripped by priests or something lmao

[hazy breach]

Ye its odd, but it is what it is

[pliant topaz]

after getting hit by 3 web blades ebcause of it I too am a coup dash hater

[edgy zenith]

how depressed are we if we supercharge rupture? don't do that or?

[tepid trellis]

on the naked symbols its aite

should under no circumstances happen in the other ones

[quaint orbit]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[tribal blade]

tragic 😦

[sinful sluice]

is it ok to not use rupture before cd window?

like theres ~7 seconds left on flag, and i have 0 cp, rupture is about to go off, but i have darkest night on

do i just rupture first and use darkest night stacks later

[tepid trellis]

if you arent in a hurry to get the cds off id consume the DN first

then rupture

then cds

[sinful sluice]

so is it okay to leave flag for like 5-6 secs then?

cuz ill have to backstab x3-4,evis,shriken storm,backstab,rupture and then flag

[tepid trellis]

it being "okay" is the wrong word id say

its the best you can do in the situation you have put yourself in

ideally it shouldnt happen

cuz then you werent thinking far enough ahead

in an ideal scenario the finisher that gave you that DN shouldve been a rupture if it was that close to falling off

[sinful sluice]

hmm ok

i was focusing only on using rupture on 9 secs or less

[quaint orbit]

aw

[jade urchin]

god damn trickster with reasonable black powder target count feels fun

[spiral marsh]

Hey guys, I'm trying to implement this into a macro. But when testing, it doesn't really work the way I'd expect it to. It never really reactivates symbols after the specified amount of time. Is there something wrong I'm doing?

[tribal blade]

this read like you expect symbols to reactivate itself after 2 seconds like the macro has, is that correct?

[spiral marsh]

My goal was to set it macro'd to dance and strike in a way where if I spam the macro, it won't burn all my symbol stacks

I remember someone mentioning a macro for shiv and thistle tea for sin rogues so they wouldn't burn all of their tea uses, and wanted to try the same for symbols

[tribal blade]

ah ok, i'm not sure how you would implement it in combination with dance and strike macros

i know some people in here do though

[spiral marsh]

I think ever since they introduced 3 charges of symbols, it made it harder to spam said macro :/

[tribal blade]

yeah it's a bit frustrating

[spiral marsh]

if anyone does know a workaround for this, I'd appreciate the help 🙂

[hazy breach]

Dance and strike cant be macroed anymore

They (accidently?) added a small delay before you enter dance so it wont register you as being able to strike in tww

[spiral marsh]

Damn that sucks 😦

So if I try to work around that and spam the macro instead (Dance, symbols, strike), is there a way to make it so not all 3 symbols get burned by spamming?

[hazy breach]

I dont see the need for the macro, but you would do something like this ig #assassination message

[sinful sluice]

💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀

classic coup wipe

[rocky ocean]

the leap mechanic isn't even mentioned in hero talents 💀

[still quartz]

hidden feature

[radiant umbra]

I'm practicing sub opener on the dummy and im noticing that in the evis -> vanish -> ss sequence, sometimes my stealth breaks for no reason or doesn't work and im not able to ss even though vanish goes on cd. Anyone know what might cause this?

[spark tusk]

It happens in towns mostly

i've had it happen to me on target dummies pretty regularly

hasn't been a problem for me in actual raids tho

[hybrid prism]

Bro that leap mechanic has almost killed me before. So stupid lol

[tribal blade]

it does happen sometimes, it's very annoying

[short radish]

dont worry it'll kill you eventually

you haven't raided as sub until you've wiped/died to coup

[bronze turret]

Maybe coup will silence the ppl wanting dfa

[lilac stag]

Nope

[sinful sluice]

eleem did you do webs on your court logs?

i might just copy your rotation

[wild hornet]

Question: If im about to pop sdance and symbol, should i do sdance - evi spend - symbol - sectec spend instead of sdance and symbol - evi - sectec (with the cp gens respectively)

[wild hornet]

I think the vanish sstrike works if you spam them at the same time

In city

[vale pine]

thats easy especially on queen

[short radish]

my first wipe was on rashanan 🙂

where i had the poison wave going down the entire raid

[leaden prairie]

Coup is so stupid

Only thing it does is makes you look stupid when you eventually die or wipe the raid to it

[haughty mural]

Atleast the charge does have an animation

Die in style

[leaden prairie]

No idea why it had to be a charge

When these things are universally hated

And most often were removed from other things

I guess they never learn tho

It will probably get deleted in a while

[sinful sluice]

litearlly the feature no one asked for lol

sub is stuck to target anyways

why does it need a dash

can always shadowstep if needed

[haughty mural]

Clearly they had outlaw in mind with that

Since it’s just Blade Rush

[tribal blade]

i have literally not had a single situation where the charge was actually useful

in a meaningful way

[vale pine]

it safed me once in the 20 year raid from falling down

[tribal blade]

wait i'm lost, what's the 20 year raid

[vale pine]

blackrock depths

there are quite some mechanics which throw you away, and it can be deadly sometimes, coup charge can prevent you dying if you got lucky timing

[tribal blade]

OHHH right

i have yet to have coup save me in that way 😉

[void hound]

it happend twice to me that i used coup mid air and it dashed me to the ground into the venom nova

its like i was using DFA

[tribal blade]

so back when i was playing outlaw it led me to develop this really weird tick where i needed to be pressing a button to fill every gcd at all times, and it led me to start spamming my character page sometimes

here is the c button on my keyboard i wore a hole into

thanks outlaw

[vale pine]

poor C button had no chance of survival

[tribal blade]

this is a good PSA on the hidden dangers of playing outlaw

[velvet nova]

C is such a good keybind tho why waste it on character panel

[vestal escarp]

because it's the character panel bind

🫏

[spark tusk]

My character panel is y

Real talk tho

I did that because I wanted to free up the c key

for buttons because it makes sense as a good bind

[vale pine]

shift + c

[spark tusk]

...........and then I never ever ever put a bind on it

so it's just sitting there unbound

for years

[vale pine]

lol

[clever delta]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[wild hornet]

i mean

you can still use shift c

i either use a movement ability or i open my character panel

[vale pine]

i have the character screen on shift + c and use c rotational

[wide magnet]

c is for sprint

alt for ui binds

alt c alt y etc

then my nameplate binds are on u where rep would be

shift u friendly ctrl u all

[upper narwhal]

objectively wrong, c is for kiCk

[uneven girder]

nah thats mouse wheel down

[cursive vapor]

Vanish is v

[wide magnet]

c is for cick

1 is for 1charge

[velvet nova]

wrong, C is for King's Bane which tops the (C)harts

[worn cape]

C is for Feint, because my keybindings make no sense.

[vale pine]

v is for sprint

[half comet]

unfortunately its Z

[cursive vapor]

Sprint is when i swing my mouse

[wheat edge]

c is for character pane (most pressed keybind)

[shy ermine]

C is for cloak

R is for rupture

[cursive vapor]

same with this one

[worn cape]

Sprint is middle mouse button for me

[wide magnet]

v is push to talk

cloak is ctrl f

rupture is 1

[vale pine]

thats interessting

i usually put stuff i need frequently easy to reach

[wide magnet]

1 is hard for me to spam

bc of carpal

i think 1 is a really bad bind actually

recently i’ve been swapping to moving spam buttons on 234

2 - ss
3 - backstab
4 - evis

i move qwe so i find control f easy

[vale pine]

q and e is good

1 and 3/4 is easy for me to reach, but probably depends on your keyboard and hand size

[mystic bough]

Damn I use alt-1 for sprint

[wheat edge]

as a league player, Q was the most natural spam button

and R big spender

[wide magnet]

yea my symbols is on r and my dance is on a

[glacial tartan]

So I wanted to ask because I didn't think about this, does Supercharger further reduce SD becuase you're technically are gaining 2 more combo points.

[hazy breach]

Yes

[glacial tartan]

Oh cool, thank ya. I honestly didn't even realize it till doing a dungeon.

Also, is there just a M+ BiS for Rouges

[vale pine]

you want mastery/vers independent of content

[glacial tartan]

Ahh okay thank you. All the guides had kind of a mix of Raids/M+. Is the 4-set worth it for me by the way?

[vale pine]

you always want the 4 set

[warm aspen]

hi guys, haven't played in a few weeks, saw some weird buff that i could've sworn happened once already b4 the anniversary patch?

but trinket stuff still didn't change any right

[small juniper]

yes

[warm aspen]

lmao tier's joever for me then

[small juniper]

why

[warm aspen]

still haven't made my peace with transmitter

if this playstyle is here to stay then im just gonna get the ring thing set up and wait for next tier

[vestal escarp]

Use radio 10 times and it becomes fine

[tulip token]

Thought you guys might appreciate that my sub IO has just leapfrogged my assa xD

[barren narwhal]

What build you running 👀

[tulip token]

Just the same ol trickster build.

[tulip token]

This was from a 13DB we just flew through with 0 deaths

[worn cape]

That's some nice dps!

[small juniper]

surely ds is better

[barren narwhal]

I been playing DS in keys and I think it is better but I don’t enjoy it as much playstyle wise

The pop off potential is much higher, big CDs in big AOE you can hit insane numbers

But averages out around the same, 1.8-2m overall in 12s and 13s

I am yet to hit 3k though

[small juniper]

do u do more dps in a 10 or a 13

[tulip token]

Currently I just don't play better on DS. That is the only reason I havent made the swap. I might try it more soon but I am doing good with trickster

[barren narwhal]

Your dps is almost entirely dependant on how well your group plays

I usually play in a big stack and if your tank is playing around your CDs you’ll do insanely higher dps

If your tank pulls gigantic while you’re in downtime then your overall is cooked

[small juniper]

really

feel like u do decent dmg as long as u have a dance + symbols ready

[barren narwhal]

Yeah sub is a lot more CD dependant than most specs in the game

The downtime is really really low dps

[small juniper]

mhm

[barren narwhal]

I’d definitely recommend u give it a go, think the potential is just higher

But playing what you like is hella valuable 🔥

[small juniper]

idk my gear is fking awful, only recently started pveing again

but do decently in the 10s ive done

with ds

[tulip token]

I am seeing 7-8mil burst on trickster in some packs. Finished the first pull of dawn at like 4.5? I was at 1.99m overall going into final boss

[small juniper]

u can do that as ds as well

[tulip token]

I see why and how DS might be more though. I will say tracking the mark is annoying

But I did it on assa so it is what it is

[small juniper]

how is it annoying?

[tulip token]

If you swap targets to spread ruptures you just gotta remember to swap back to the OG target when sending

[barren narwhal]

DS plays much smoother on sub than it does on assass since you have much more reliable access to shadowstrike

With DS you just mash black powder though, so you don’t need to keep amazing track of your mark

[small juniper]

not rly if u bp u dont have to worry about target

[barren narwhal]

On assass you need to keep much better track

[tulip token]

True. I need to send some keys on it then. I have only played it like 2 times? And that was like over a week ago

[barren narwhal]

I’d say top burst you can get with high ilvl and ds build is like 12m at highest

In gigantic pulls and stuff like NW and stonevault

But its just a high number lol the overall ends up looking quite similar

I’m 634 ilvl and those are the kinda numbers I see in good keys

[tulip token]

Do you spread ruptures before sending when you see these?

[small juniper]

surely the same rules apply as usual

[barren narwhal]

Just 2 casts tbh

[small juniper]

u apply ruptures while tank is gathering the pull

otherwise u just get into cds asap

and u can rupture outside dance assuming shit lives unless target count is too high

sub has played the same way for the last 8 years

[tulip token]

I only ask cause surely the “burst” would be higher if you slammed on pull. But if you don’t spread ruptures then your overall will be worse

[vestal escarp]

Raz why tf are you playing DS

[small juniper]

its best 100%

[vestal escarp]

[small juniper]

im 626 now owning it up

what dps is good to do in a mists 10 overall

thats the only thing i have to compare to

[vestal escarp]

What kinda question is that

[barren narwhal]

DS bis surely

[tulip token]

I would have to go back and look but for a 10 Mists I’ve finished around 1.98m before or something stupid close. I remember being mad I didn’t hit 2m cause I want an overall of 2m without Aug

[small juniper]

@vestal escarp is trickster actually better

link the trickster raid spec so i can sim myself real quick

[vestal escarp]

It defo feels better, and imo it's a case of feeling better actually translates into performing better

[tulip token]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tulip token]

That sheet has DS simming worse in dslice but archon has DS doing more in high keys. I wonder how close it really is

DS is only winning on archon in GB and MISTS

[barren narwhal]

Surely dslice is fake

Idk why but I was always taught not to trust d slice

A lot of top key performance will be down to individual players

[tulip token]

dslice is good for rogue

Bad for a lot of other classes

[barren narwhal]

Since there are like 10 sub rouges playing and 7 million assass rogues

Much easier to tell what’s good from a much bigger sample

[tulip token]

Yeah finding out what is actually good for sub is like finding a needle in the haystack. There isn't a lot of representation

[small juniper]

theres a grand total of like 5 good sub rogue players

so probably hard to measure

[barren narwhal]

Hard to turn down a much stronger spec like assass that uses the same weps and everything

And is generally just better in all cases

Fuck assass tho all my homies hate assass

Yucky spec

[hazy breach]

I would not recommend deathstalker

[tulip token]

My goat has spoken

[small juniper]

why

[hazy breach]

For keys that is

[small juniper]

why

[tulip token]

You are breaking his heart

haha

[hazy breach]

Because i dont think it does more damage

It hasnt when ive tried it.

[small juniper]

prob shouldnt do more unless its insanely big pulls

[vestal escarp]

You can pad with BP as trickster

And with form stacks up it hits hard

Like really hard

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker does more at sustained damage aoe, so theres for sure situations where it does more

[plush roost]

Its boss dam is also a bit better no?

[hazy breach]

But the ST is worse, unless you play the build ive linked, in which case the sustained aint that great either

[small juniper]

ive just played the raid aoe build

in m+

only done weekly 10s so its irrelevant

was just curious

[hazy breach]

But its definitely fine

[plush roost]

The build you linked in pins? Rotten?

That's what I've used in the first bits of Mists and end of NW

Maybe I should try trickster again some time, I've always felt that DS was doing more boss dam with the rotten setup

[small juniper]

yes

[vestal escarp]

On on key bosses trickster also playes nicer unless fight is less than 2 min, in which case theres not really a difference