subtlety

[uneven fern]

losing a sectech cause you have to pop dn instead

[tulip gorge]

what do you mean by that? you hold CDs until cold blood comes back?

[vestal escarp]

kush playing one perception

[delicate steeple]

wasnt that the dark brew build on wowhead

[tribal blade]

sub feels like complete donkey dick w/o 2 points in death perception

[vestal escarp]

You're forced to one dance+sod between cds

[ornate current]

Wait, are the sim numbers in the fuu sheet with the DS bug or without it ???

[vestal escarp]

With

You cant take it out of simcraft without heavy tinkering

[ornate current]

Ok good

[alpine wraith]

it is without the bug

[ornate current]

It was without until now

[ornate current]

Yea ok thought so

[vestal escarp]

Erm

We're saying the same thing

[alpine wraith]

sims dont have the mark krangle

it will get fixed any day now

just trust

[ornate current]

At what point do we just treat it as a feature

Since they arnt fixing it again

[modest river]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

yeah it feels super bad when i tried it out

[ornate current]

I think you went the opposite direction

[vestal escarp]

Yeah mb but i meant the same

[tribal blade]

mm so i thnk DS is the play

in M+

seeing how much overall kush is putting up with it

[alpine wraith]

well it si actually more thematic to sub just the problem is the dmg comes mostly from passive things

instead of skills

and yea DS in m+ is likely the play

[vestal escarp]

Nah bro dont judge from one key

[alpine wraith]

you just take 2 off rotten and perception and get finality

but also you need bigger pulls

[ornate current]

How do they not just fix DS like wtf wasnt the bug created whent they were fixing it for assa echoing reprimand ?

[vestal escarp]

Also city is the one key i would never swap out of trickster

[alpine wraith]

for it to excel vs trickster

[ornate current]

Now that ER isnt a thing why not just fix it ??

[alpine wraith]

who knows

why would you prefer trickster in cot?

[tribal blade]

thing is BP is doing so much dam now

[vale pine]

bp on deathstalker is good

[tribal blade]

i think dawn would continue being a trickster key maybe

[vestal escarp]

Cdr between spies and being able to getting to press evis in first part

Like sure with bp you're padding on small roaches at all packs before first boss

But it's not my playstyle if i can avoid padding

Focus still too weak for prio

[ornate current]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vestal escarp]

Also as DS i would feel comfortable running keys with a bit more crit, meaning another item set

[tribal blade]

i actually have a bit more crit than the usual sub rogue because of the gear i've gotten

~25% fully buffed

[alpine wraith]

bp is around 85% of evis now

[mystic ether]

So what do we play in court now?

[alpine wraith]

and mark does a lot of dmg +witness etc

so yea sadly no super reason to play trickster

[tribal blade]

trickster still feels better

[tribal blade]

hunt them down too

[alpine wraith]

i still will play it in m+ tho who cares about dmg in weeklies

[tribal blade]

STUPID damage from autos

it's nuts

[alpine wraith]

hunt does dmg over super time

if thing dies in 3 secs

it does like at most 200k

[tribal blade]

yeah true

[alpine wraith]

mark can crit for 900k

a funny thing tho is sniping low hp mobs with a strike

[tribal blade]

it's a good thing i've done a fuckton of keys as sin

[alpine wraith]

and you get insta DN

[tribal blade]

i'm very used to playing with DS in keys haha

[alpine wraith]

if you want to do that in some bosses with adds

[tribal blade]

crystal boss in SV

that's a good one

[alpine wraith]

yea that one is a funny one also amarth

[tribal blade]

yeah that one too

although i think on amarth you just BP spam

[vestal escarp]

As trickster your cds sequence feels a lot better

[alpine wraith]

snipe is when they are low hp yea you can just bp mostly

[tribal blade]

true true!

[alpine wraith]

i mean feeling is good that is why i will still do trickster likely apart from the videos etc

but DS will do more dmg

it is what it is

unluck

[tribal blade]

i'm gonna try out DS in some keys this week

[gaunt vortex]

Yo are u supposed to supercharge your sectec during 2nd dance in cds on ds?

[tribal blade]

you always want sectec to be supercharged

at least i think so

[plush roost]

Tried DS on Sikran today for funsies, yeah that buff is pretty fat

[gaunt vortex]

Ye I was wondering how to pull it off on ds cuz on trickster it’s kinda natural most of the time if u hit coup b4 2nd dance, just gotta delay symbols then, I assume we want to get as much gcds during dance and transmitter window so 2nd sectec will end up as 3rd finisher most likely no?

[fallow nimbus]

So how do we use dance and sod between cds as DS now?

[plush roost]

Big dam

[alpine wraith]

im in court/queen jail

[tribal blade]

"i feel pretty straight right now" kush 2024

[alpine wraith]

from my tests you can kinda do 1 dance in between with cb

maybe you can sneak 1 SoD+sec tech but not 100% on that one

[keen dome]

I love this weeks affix. Love my 39% versatility

[fair anchor]

That sounds so boring 😦

[plush roost]

Doing sikran, 4 min kill timer. It was CDs+2dance+2dance between, CDs + 2 dance, then I had to hold a bit

Did a dry sec tec which didnt feel great

Snuck one last dance in as boss was dying

[alpine wraith]

also remember queen is back on the menu

use it on lingering

[plush roost]

Mandate better than void reapers you think?

[alpine wraith]

yes

[plush roost]

For DS

Interesting

[alpine wraith]

it gets buffed by 30%

[plush roost]

Same logic as before

Yeye

Maybe I'll dust off the ol heroic mandate

Next time i do an ST fight

[pliant arrow]

Do we hold sectec for SoD or hold SoD for sectech as DS? The cdr part is so cursed when used to trickster

[plush roost]

You use SoD with Dance/Sec tec

So you can supercharge them

[delicate steeple]

is that showing in sims? cause when i compare void reapers is still better

only beaten by egg

[plush roost]

They had to krangle some specific api string last time mandate was viable

Maybe the current sim isn't up to date with that

[stuck terrace]

Wanna play sub so bad but don’t have transmitter 😦 skardyns feels so bad with desync

[plush roost]

Yeah its kinda cursed

[tribal blade]

playing with mandate again? shoot me

[plush roost]

Only on DS

Which we play on 2 fights (if you decide to play sub on kyveza monkaS)

[tawdry kiln]

playing transmitterless since the start and for the next week too 😔

[alpine wraith]

well if you have hc mandate and mythic contract the diff is minimal

[vestal escarp]

chat i dont wanna press bp

[plush roost]

Then don't!

[delicate steeple]

i was simming mythic vs mythic

[plush roost]

Press FoK envenom

[tribal blade]

OH thank god

i have a mythic contract

[alpine wraith]

i mean it also depends on kill time

[tribal blade]

doesn't really matter that much for me because my guild is gonna be locking out for a while on court

and queen

[plush roost]

Ye a 4 15 kill time probably sucks for mandate since its delayed 30 seconds

[alpine wraith]

well on court mandate is bis

[thorny ridge]

How ds in m+? Can /cancelaura on night?

[timid reef]

Black Powder damage increased by 20%. is that in trickster aswell or only death?

[vestal escarp]

for sub

[timid reef]

ty

[tribal blade]

if you do that don't you lose your mark

you just consume it

[alpine wraith]

dont ever cancel DN lul

[lilac stag]

We done hit silly mode

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[winter python]

No need to do that, you can apply a new Mark from Stealth while you have DN active.

I was confused about that at first as well due to the way I setup my UI.

[keen dome]

That's my secret. I'm always silly.

[delicate steeple]

why is it even vanishing here

[sonic ermine]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Bugs - Subtlety Rogue

[tidal python]

Why don't we have separate profiles for trickster and deathstalker on simc?

[short radish]

i am free

fuck DS

[keen dome]

Hell yeah!

Well done

[short radish]

thx

0 for speed ranking so cooldowns were so fucked lmao

[delicate steeple]

jesus

[short radish]

9:20 kill

[delicate steeple]

technically first tho

[short radish]

ye

[delicate steeple]

if you look the other way

[keen dome]

A kill is a kill

[sonic ermine]

am i misremembereing of was there a bug that fks with DS sims kinda?

[alpine wraith]

yes by around 2-3%

the mark bug

[hazy breach]

Premed

[sonic ermine]

so it sims 2-3% higher than it should right?

or lower

[alpine wraith]

yea might want to recheck witness thingies and protect premed from it

[delicate steeple]

ah right ty

[alpine wraith]

it did a goof there because of it likely

[hazy breach]

I did, it doesnt matter

[alpine wraith]

no i mean it vanished storm

[hazy breach]

Thats why i havent changed it to strike

Because its a bunch of extra text in the APL that doesnt do anything

[delicate steeple]

is there a big diff between vanishing there and just going flag rupture into cds

[alpine wraith]

i did think about using storm stab to get to 5 then vanish strike and go into dance

but tbh opener is whatever

just crit

[hazy breach]

Theres a big difference between a 2cp rupture and a 7cp one ye

[delicate steeple]

no i mean

like ss flag rupture cds

[winter python]

How does it have clear the witness from 2nd gcd, am I dumb?

[delicate steeple]

like just skipping the evis in the opener

[hazy breach]

Then you lose a lot of cp

Since no SnD

[alpine wraith]

you get clear the witness when applying mark

[delicate steeple]

gotcha ty

[alpine wraith]

i changed a bit to strike flag evis storm stab rupture vanish strike then dance but the diff is not super big i just like big number on evis and sec tech unga bunga

[crisp cradle]

is sim just drunk? why meld into shuriken

[alpine wraith]

that is a funny one yea

[delicate steeple]

probably like what eleem said earlier for premed no? does it work off meld

[fallow nimbus]

What's wrong with strike flag evisc vanish strike rupture cds

[alpine wraith]

you need to enter stealth

[delicate steeple]

or i guess in aoe its redundant

[alpine wraith]

not much wrong

[crisp cradle]

I asked yesterday about meld and premed and it not work like that

[alpine wraith]

you just dont get charger on DN evis

you can get premed from meld but need to enter stealth so only on pulls

not bosses

[delicate steeple]

been a void elf since legion so

[hazy breach]

I mean ye meld doesnt do anything in aoe

But it probably shouldnt

[fallow nimbus]

What do you mean? Do you sod before rupture?

[winter python]

You won't consume CTTW

[hazy breach]

Its fine to not

The strike and ctw does about the same damage

It doesnt matter

[sick jackal]

Guarantee crit maybe?

[keen dome]

Dumb question time but: Would we supercharge BP in AoE situations as DS in a key?

So instead of Evis you'd Sectec -> BP or?

I guess ideally you'd just line it up with DN

[stuck terrace]

Can pvp trinket be potentially good
Alternate for transmitter ?

[alpine wraith]

yea in aoe you would charge BP likely

nah pvp trink has lower budget

and also no 1:30

[keen dome]

Yeah. PvP is like 6k agi, Transmitter is 14k at 619

[clever delta]

okay so im simming 50k more than assa

[fallow nimbus]

With the fx highlight on wowhead, does coup have a animation in melee now?

[clever delta]

that cant be real

[alpine wraith]

it is the same animation we have now

just some wailing

the new one is for mark

[fallow nimbus]

I know but it's only when charging

[alpine wraith]

you also do it on melee

[fallow nimbus]

I swear my bloodelf didn't

[alpine wraith]

be human then animation class

first

[glacial hinge]

are the pinned talents the go to? or we playing DB again

[opal mantle]

you can just macro flag and sb nowadays no ?

[alpine wraith]

we dont play db no

no you dont macro flag to blades

[opal mantle]

oh okay

[alpine wraith]

you use blades after consuming premed and a finisher

[opal mantle]

ok

ty

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/apt-rosé-blackpink-bruno-mars-gif-1539050173426684783

Hell yeah

[wise scaffold]

is the general opener - Evis to proc Mark --> vanish --> ss, flag, rup? - CDs etc....

[alpine wraith]

opener does not change as DS generally

unless you like big numbers like me

[hazy breach]

Evis to proc slice and dice

[sly shore]

SS > Flag > Evis > Vanish + SS > Rupture > Dance

[alpine wraith]

also you flag before evis yes

[hazy breach]

Prob BP over DN but it doesnt matter that much, just make sure it hits sectech

You dont want to scuff your timings because of it

[keen dome]

Nod Makes sense, thanks.

[mystic bough]

DS with mandate, how would we align those cds? I assume we always want to use it into lingering darkness?

[sly shore]

just on cd

and not if ur going to transmitter

[glacial hinge]

on fuu we are going for DB for now go for pinned right?

[sly shore]

use the one in pinned

for st and aoe

[hot plaza]

Outside of dance is sub meant to feel a bit energy starved in aoe or is it something I’m doing wrong? Ty 😩

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[vivid zenith]

hey guys,i had a sub rogue in one of my keys and he was wearing a fist weapon in off hand.. is this a thing ?

[keen dome]

It is not a thing, no.

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[hot plaza]

Thanks mate answers my question perfectly ♥️👍

[short radish]

no worries

it's all me

[mystic bough]

I assume that is the warp blade? Think he just wanted to try out the buff from contract

but no its not a real thing lol

[lilac stag]

During lingering. Don’t screw up transmitter cd.

[opal mantle]

and with dance comes everything ? (trinket pot sb)

[mystic bough]

So that measn we delay our cds a bit to get mandate off cd?

[hazy breach]

no

[alpine wraith]

you use transmitter on pull kinda

so you have time to get ready to do the quest as you sec tech

[hazy breach]

Id recommend using transmitter with flag

So you have a few second to do the task

[opal mantle]

and pot with sb and sd then

[fallow nimbus]

What's your opener and why does it produce a bigger number?

[opal mantle]

after the vanish

[alpine wraith]

the only change is getting charger on DN evis always but numerically does not change much

opener is whatever

[fallow nimbus]

But using sod after rupture should always land charger on sectec and dn

[alpine wraith]

yea that is why i said not much changes

[opal mantle]

and last question do you ever press SD symbols without sec tech ? feels homeless to not do it with ds

[hazy breach]

No you always sectech in dance

Nothing is forcing you to use a dance+symbols

Just hold until sectech is ready

[opal mantle]

yea ok

[slate marlin]

We bp on 2t as ds even with no finality?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[alpine wraith]

yea

[opal mantle]

im not loosing dances by doing that

[alpine wraith]

bp is big now

[hazy breach]

As deathstalker BP does about 85% the damage of eviscerate

On pure ST

[clever delta]

i think raidbot is funny, wanna take me haster mastery ring over crit mastery

hows that

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ntYygw6QXvpXiyqfcyS2eV

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker

Crit stinky

[tribal blade]

damn crit is that stinky where it wants haste instead?

that's rough

[hazy breach]

yes

[clever delta]

i was checkin stat weights and crit was still above haste tho

[fallow nimbus]

Passive dmg enhanced by haste

[hazy breach]

Youre already critting with CB, rotten and darkest night anyway

[hot plaza]

Yo guys why do we storm inside flawless pls when flawless buffs finishing moves? Ty

[tribal blade]

you storm in aoe so you generate a lot of combo points

if i understand the question correctly

[fallow nimbus]

Outside dance

As trickster

[hot plaza]

Yeah Ty mate but why when flawless is up so more cp points gives more finishing moves yeah?

[fallow nimbus]

Man, with DS a thing again the questions must always start with "as spec xy do i...?"

[tribal blade]

rule is during dance you do your ST rotation in aoe

[fallow nimbus]

As trickster

[tribal blade]

outside dance you use storm to build>finish

[merry elbow]

Whats the command for finding weakauras?

[fallow nimbus]

[tribal blade]

and then when flawless drops you backstab till you get it back up again

then continue using storm

[tribal blade]

this is gonna be breaking people lol

i already had to sit on the target dummies for a while today to retrain myself to be able to do the DS aoe rotation

w/o wanting to strike>evis all the time

[alpine wraith]

you still strike once for premed remember at least

[tribal blade]

true! once to consume premed

but that part's easy at least since we've done that for a while

[alpine wraith]

you could save the premed strike for DN

so you dont need to count targets

to storm

might not be a sim gain but a sanity gain

[tribal blade]

the biggest problem i have is building -1 from max with DN up

and incorrectly thinking i'm at full

and then evising

and then big pain

[alpine wraith]

yea if you saved the strike

that one goes to 7 always

[tribal blade]

true

[alpine wraith]

but yea even on st sometimes i have to think harder

the clincher is getting to 6

then having to strike again

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[tribal blade]

that's colossal pain

whoever designed the DS tree

is a sadist

insert dark knight gif

some men just want to see the world burn

[fallow nimbus]

I guess that's one point for 11.1 that sees change

5 cp for marks is ok but why does dn need full cp?

And why does it gets more when we talent more cp?

[hot plaza]

Thanks for the help mate should I wait for the 5 stack flawless to use storm or storm on 1 stack of flawless? Ty

[hazy breach]

What

[tribal blade]

it doesn't matter how many stacks you have

i hope you didn't mix up storm with a different spell and i've been telling you to do something mega cursed lol

[hot plaza]

I was definitely reading a wrong talent sorry mate my bad 🤣🤣

[tribal blade]

i thought so haha, no worries 😉

the questions were so bizarre, there was no way

[lilac stag]

Transmitter with flag. Mandate after CDs

but if you snipe something, the reduced cd can interfere with next flag/ transmitter if you’re not careful.

[idle aurora]

This is why I hated mandate on a diff char

Sniping feels good and also bad

When you are pressing a big cd and your trinket is scuffed

I would do anything to get a transmitter lol :0

[tawdry kiln]

don't have it and I did a sim just to see what Im losing not having it...

[west arch]

What crafted equipment should I make for the raid suti? and with what decorations

[idle aurora]

It’s depressing

Isn’t it

[tawdry kiln]

It's a challenge ☝️ 👴

[idle aurora]

I’m in a weird place….i have an absolute cracked enhance Shaman I love and I started sub rogue and I love it so much I can’t stop playing it…..much to my friends irritation 😄

Part of it is how weirdly friendly this discord is

[short radish]

yeah its a jarring experience going to other class discords

paladin pins are absoultely useless and just memes

[gritty knot]

@alpine wraith where did Blizz say that Mandate was buffed 30%? I saw u wrote that some time ago

[fallow nimbus]

just tested it now. as blood elf i have no coup animation in melee

[alpine wraith]

read lingering darkness

from deathstalker

[idle aurora]

lol I just had this conversation class discords like have their own personalities. Monk discord all specs is like a straight up Fortune 500 business. Fire mage is like Albert Einstein and Steven Hawking discussing black hole math. Beast master and ret paladin is like 4chan at 3am lol. Here is like the most chill im just sitting with my grandpa on a porch while he tells me old stories and teaches me about life.

[alpine wraith]

because we are all old

🦖

[idle aurora]

Lol im probably one of the oldest

[keen dome]

Haha, yeah, Rogue discord is exceptionally chill and well run. And everyone is very friendly.

[patent crystal]

We just chill guys fr

[tribal blade]

i think it has to do with the theorycrafters here being extremely invested in sub, and they've created a good environment for discussion

and most sub players are also pretty die hard

we've been maining sub for a long ass time haha

[keen dome]

Haha, yeah

The ability to glow purple is paramount to my enjoyment in WoW

[uneven fern]

sin channel is good too we just get horny sometimes

outlaw is the problem child 🕵️

[timid reef]

U do BP on aoe now? Im still playing trickster, or u still do evi and shadowstrike?

[alpine wraith]

as trickster you dont need to bp unless you have a lot of targets

[timid reef]

so above 8 targets BP?

or whats the cap rly lel

[hazy breach]

Currently cooking

But it seems like if youre using the second rotten charge for storm to apply FW it seems to be worth to BP on 5/6 targets as trickster

[gritty knot]

Hell ye. That's nice. I just wonder rn how u can make use of that for example at First Boss in Mists with mandate but I don't see any possibility rn. Maybe I am just too tired tho

[uneven shard]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

yea that bug is annoying but hey at least second charge does something

a funny thing is that witness is uncapped

on cds critting all mobs for like 400k is so funny

[kind bluff]

Do we ever use sectech without symbols?

[alpine wraith]

as trickster you can but be very careful

i have an explanation on my sheet but you want enough cdr to get a dance on time next time

[kind bluff]

What's the general rule around buff usage I keep getting my sec9nd buff windows misaligned

Where is said sheet sir 🙂

[tribal blade]

yeah it's doing beefy damage in aoe

[alpine wraith]

and fatal intent also procs on AoE

LUL

big stonks

[kind bluff]

I guess the bigger question is do we ever hold cds. I have been full sending every time sectec comes up

[slate marlin]

rotten and dark brew simming withing 1.5% of each other in dslice for me

[hot plaza]

Can I make a macro with flag-shadowblades-trinket and pot? Ty 👍👍

[swift tinsel]

Generally wouldn’t recommend

[hot plaza]

How comes as there both 1.5 min cds?

[alpine wraith]

because of premed

you are wasting cp

and quality blades time

[hazy breach]

Flag is 24 seconds

Blades is 16

[swift tinsel]

You want them to end at the same time, not start

[alpine wraith]

also sec tech does not work with blades fully only first hit

[hot plaza]

Ty guys ♥️👍

[opal mantle]

so blade after sech tech ?

[cinder axle]

No^^

[cinder axle]

sorry i read it wrong y u can do that

but u can Macro Blades, dance and symbole together if u want

ur losing one global but its not a big loss because ur opener is easyer cause of less buttons

[hazy breach]

Sure you can, but you'd want them bound seperately anyway

So for me it doesnt really make any sense to do it

[cinder axle]

And often u want to use sec tech as ur second finisher and then u want blades on before that

[opal mantle]

and is sectech always first spell used in sd ?

cause of tierset

[cinder axle]

No not every time it depends on what hero talant u play

[hazy breach]

Pretty much yes

[cinder axle]

in trickstar its sometimes the second

[hazy breach]

If you have darkest night up you'd use that before

[opal mantle]

oh okay yeah

makes sense

cause top logs are confusing me

[cinder axle]

u looking for death stalker or trickster?

cause trickster minmaxing is more complex^^

[opal mantle]

is it

nah ill play deathstalker

first time i play sub in tww but i love ds in assa

[cinder axle]

Trickster is way mor fun then DS for me cause black powder in AOE feels bad to press

But in pure ST its w/e

[cinder axle]

On Assa it feels good cause ur spender is aoe as well

[opal mantle]

ye even in st tbh

[hot plaza]

How do we know to if it’s first or second pls?

[cinder axle]

U have different buffs u need to track like flawless form or unseen blade

or if coup de grace is up or not

example: U have Coup and enter Dance + Unseen Blade is on ur target = U use Coup first to get 5 Stacks of flawless form before u use ur Sec Tech

so it hits harder

Example 2: U Have coup and enter dance but Unseen Blade is NOT on ur Target = Sec Tech first to get Unseen Blade on ur Target to use Coupe to get the 5 Stacks of form

[tawdry kiln]

but you still use SoD to buff sectec ?

and not coup

[cinder axle]

If u use Dance u use Symbols

there are scenarios where u use sybole without dance but it dosent happen that often

like if u pool for ur big cds

[tawdry kiln]

ok so Dance + SoD and coup as 1st finisher if unseen blade and coup are up

[hazy breach]

Supercharger buffs coup and eviscerate by the same amount

Every extra combo point is worth the same amount of damage

[cinder axle]

Y but u want 5 stacks on form to hit with tech

[hazy breach]

So 7 > 10 is the same damage increase as 12 > 15

[slate marlin]

think ill play db for now, dmg seems higher on zuldazar dummies

[cinder axle]

Y but not my Point xD

[hazy breach]

So it doesnt matter if you supercharge coup or not

As long as you hit sectech

[hot plaza]

Thanks for that mate 👍 is unseen blades the same as fazed?

[hazy breach]

During your blades+flag window you'd want to sectech first anyway

[cinder axle]

Well y it does because otherwise u cant hit flawless from buffs for tech

[cinder axle]

Y i mean fazed

[hazy breach]

What

[cinder axle]

we are talkin about 2 diff topings

[hazy breach]

#subtlety message Continueing from this:
Even though it wastes one unseen blade charge you get your sectech up earlier in the burst window which means you get more 4p value so its still worth it

[tawdry kiln]

😮

[hazy breach]

Yes were talking about different things, which is why im not qouting you

[tawdry kiln]

forgot about that

forgor 🐒

[honest dome]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[cinder axle]

Dunno if that is more valu then the buffed tech with form but totaly get ur point!

I forgot about the cd u get

[plush roost]

The cdr is important

Very

Important

[hazy breach]

Also it allows the 5 flawless stacks to last until your second sectech

Instead of the first one

[cinder axle]

yy but we are just talkin about ur Big CD window right? otherwise with just dance and symbole it should be like i said

[hazy breach]

And the second one does way more since youll have CB, more flag stacks and more flawless stacks in general

[cinder axle]

Outside of flag i mean

[tawdry kiln]

cdr and 4p is still a thing even outside of flag, hmm 🤔

solution : dance with no SoD > SS > coup > SoD > SS > pray for 7 cp Sectec (idk how bad is this sequence)

[cinder axle]

Well it depends if that one finisher u Buff with the Tech is stronger then the Sec Tech you would buff with Danse Macabre

[tawdry kiln]

I stop doing theorycraft or I will drag down the sub community 🏃

[swift tinsel]

You’d never dance without SoD

[cinder axle]

y maybe its better to not overcomplicate it and juse use it as it comes

[tribal blade]

it was already not great to dance w/o symbols

but now with supercharger

it's really bad to dance w/o symbols

[swift tinsel]

^

[tribal blade]

because supercharger makes your sectec and 1 other finisher do WAY more damage on top of the several dmg amps during dance

which means you're absolutely giga juiced layering SoD and dance together

[cinder axle]

so do you hold CB for ur second sec tech and dont send it with the first to get it roling?

[hazy breach]

Its better to only ever use CB on your second sectech in your flag window yes

[cinder axle]

aw ok i macroed the 2 and never gave that a thougt

[crisp cradle]

why would going in shadowmeld give me are guaranteed crit from shurikens? I don't have silent storm either
I think it's just sim bug, or idk

[edgy zenith]

I think DS has a lot more min/maxing than Trickster. but maybe I'm just not used to it yet

feels like there is more to think about

Ephemeral Bond or Exhilarating Execution btw

which one is better?

EB for raid, EE for M+?

[hazy breach]

Typically heal in raid and shield in m+

[edgy zenith]

gotcha

[sweet trench]

How far behind is sub in st and aoe from assa?

[cinder axle]

ST we good

AOE we kinda meh

thing is assa blasts in aoe even without the big cds

we only blast when we got cds

[hazy breach]

Not that far behind

[sweet trench]

I ask because i saw the % increase from recent buffs

[edgy zenith]

eleem, you running the AoE build in the pins for M+?

[hazy breach]

Id recommend to still run trickster

But yes i'd run the one in the pins

[cinder axle]

but tbf i havent played with the patch yet so dunno if we are a bit better now

[vale pine]

single target ahead, aoe probably closer now

[edgy zenith]

just for ease of play or do you think it's still jsut better?

[cinder axle]

wym with ease, isnt ds just spaming powder in aoe? xD

[edgy zenith]

isn't trickster the same rotation everywhere?

[cinder axle]

don´t judge me I havent played it

[edgy zenith]

DS you have to think about target count, trickster you don't

and having mark go on a wrong target can be catastrophic if you aren't paying attention

[cinder axle]

no there are many dif rotations like we discussed before if u scrole a bit up^^

[edgy zenith]

i mean, there aren't really lmao

[inner glen]

sub new m+ meta?

[gaunt charm]

fuck assa hell, ill go back to sub now

[hazy breach]

I mean not really

Its "is there more than 1 target"

[cinder axle]

Well if ur off ur fazed target as trickster u dont deal cleave so its the same

[edgy zenith]

whereas trickster is literally "..."

is my point

[swift tinsel]

Nimble cleaves regardless of if you're targeting a fazed target

bc its tied to flawless form

[edgy zenith]

this is not even true, right?

fazed just increases dam

[swift tinsel]

and in aoe you're likely to have everything fazed from sectech

[clever delta]

can the DS actually fit two dances betweens next cds

its kinda tight with cdr right

[swift tinsel]

it felt super close trying it out last night in raid

[edgy zenith]

it is, yes. but it works with Skyfury and okay RNG

[cinder axle]

ah sorry i meant if i dont have form but ur right i get it easyer!

[pseudo fiber]

so i guess we're not forced to play DS in m+

cause it feels like im gonna puke

[final wasp]

@alpine wraith what happened to the guild homie

[wide magnet]

u wouldn’t be forced to play it even if it were 5% ahead

because it’s not sin

[pseudo fiber]

i mean, im enjoying Sub too much. started with sin, but ... it gets boring really quickly

[hazy breach]

Youre checking that as trickster too for storm anyway

Its not like it matters much

[crisp cradle]

So, outside of dance, we do shurikens on 2+ targets right ( DS )?

[hazy breach]

For both yes

[haughty mural]

is there a rough % diff between DS and trickster m+ right now ?

[crisp cradle]

If shuriken tornado talented, we are using during lingering darkness even on ST right

[edgy zenith]

I suppose that's fair

[idle aurora]

Am I ok not taking tornado in m+ it feels so jarring to play as a new player for some reason

[hazy breach]

Yes, nado isnt that big

[cinder axle]

and it feels so bad xD

somehow its clunky and i feel like i cant press my buttons

[hazy breach]

Yes

[wide magnet]

its energy cost is too high

[edgy zenith]

free and off GCD, nado would go hard

(this will never happen)

[wide magnet]

i don’t think it needs to be ogcd

it fires at 1s intervals and rogue gcds are 1s

it just Feels too fast

but it’s not

[tawdry kiln]

you usually have to wait a bit more than 60 energy right ?

[edgy zenith]

honestly, they should just make it so that the next 5 finishing moves spent shoot out a shuriken storm after

[swift tinsel]

using the tick weakaura helps get used to it too

[edgy zenith]

same effect, without the clunkiness

[wide magnet]

ya something like that

shuriken tornado is clunky cuz you’re playing it reactively instead of proactively

[swift tinsel]

^

[wide magnet]

i.e. instead of knowing it will fill your combo points ahead of time you’re reacting to it doing so

and thus it feels significantly harder to pick a finisher

[swift tinsel]

well, you can predict when you're going to get them though

[wide magnet]

but the low gcd of the class means the intent is for you to p much always push the same buttons

[swift tinsel]

yeah, it just kinda feels disruptive in general as a cd

[wide magnet]

yeah i’m explaining the failure in gameplay

[swift tinsel]

getting the extra cdr is nice-ish

[edgy zenith]

my only gripe is the waiting for the first one to go off basically. after the first global it feels fine.

[swift tinsel]

for sure

[wide magnet]

yeah fair enough

i think stornado feels great when you press it at 100 energy and you have both energy talents :^)

[swift tinsel]

Like people were saying yesterday, it doesn't really fit with sub all that well anymore and should be looked at/reworked/removed

[cinder axle]

did anyone play keys today as DS with Tea and likes it?

[swift tinsel]

Make BP that hits rupture do something like nightblade amp

[wide magnet]

i don’t think players enjoy pressing rupture

on sub

[swift tinsel]

agreed, which is why it should do something interesting

bc I don't ever see it getting removed from sub

[wide magnet]

mm

sub rupture is very silly

[cinder axle]

You just press it if u got nothin to do while out of cds

or at the start of the gather

[swift tinsel]

Agreed, I'm nostalgic for nightblade obv lol

[wide magnet]

i didn’t play rogue at that time so i have no opinions

[swift tinsel]

and the scope of what they can do with rupture is a bit limited without it feeling like its getting copied from sin because they actually interact with it

[fallow nimbus]

man it's hard to relearn bp spam

[wide magnet]

i feel like blizzard could relearn a lot from riot games

albeit a bit different paradigm bc wow is less complex than a moba

[haughty mural]

Nightblade - Only useable on one target at a time. Finishing move that infects the target with shadowy energy, dealing massive Shadow damage over time. Deals its damage faster while Shadow Dance is active. If an enemy dies while afflicted by your Nightblade, you regain energy based on its remaining duration. Lasts longer per combo point.

Replicating Shadows - Periodic Damage from your Nightblade erupts, dealing 20% damage to nearby enemies. Reduced beyond x targets.

no multidot spec anymore

RS bug fixed

your welcome

[wide magnet]

but riot cares a lot about relaying intent through gameplay loops

and i’m not sure if wow has cared about that since mop

[fallow nimbus]

target lock is a big no no

[swift tinsel]

I'd be very okay with this, or something close

[haughty mural]

it is no target lock

[fallow nimbus]

one reason DS feels shit to play

[swift tinsel]

So have replicating allow 2 targets to split dmg

and tune accordingly

[fallow nimbus]

if it's just a big dot with cleave then it's fine i guess

[haughty mural]

yes thats what it means

[wide magnet]

one of the big issues with rupture is that outside of very thematic dots like garrote dots are just not allowed to deal damage

[haughty mural]

they want us to keep smth like it as maintenance

[wide magnet]

you are playing a cast efficiency game with rupture vs another finisher

instead of incentivized to press rupture because it does a lot of damage

[fallow nimbus]

man marks on ourself, mark bug fixed, rs fixed and it could be a nice spec

[swift tinsel]

have it store % dmg during dance and pop at end

[alpine wraith]

another one to the pile of corpses

[final wasp]

[wide magnet]

marking targets atp is a failed concept

[final wasp]

Drama or just tired of content?

[haughty mural]

then make flag a selfbuff aswell while we are at it

[alpine wraith]

think officers just burned out

smhj

[lilac stag]

Just make everything auto attacks while we’re at it

[fallow nimbus]

an assa rogue told me how he has to juggle marks at court and queen. you must be out of your mind to play that of your own free will

[haughty mural]

[swift tinsel]

its not as bad as sub on court but queen felt space aids

[haughty mural]

buff hunt them down by 200%

[alpine wraith]

auto them down

like an AK 47

[wide magnet]

dsm should probably have its own button in addition to proccing conditionally

[lilac stag]

Melee attacks and give sub killing spree

Spec fixed

[haughty mural]

subtlety the true auto attack spec

[swift tinsel]

I want my autoattacks to proc autoattacks

[alpine wraith]

time to unban autoattakk

[swift tinsel]

and refill my cp's with autoattacks

[haughty mural]

make our mastery increase auto attack dmg instead

[final wasp]

The day i die, sure

[lilac stag]

I think this went over most peoples heads

[swift tinsel]

it used to increase attack speed

give back recoup finisher

and burst of speed

[vale pine]

i did hear wow mobile might be not that unrealistic, so flowi is also waiting

[alpine wraith]

man i forgot about him

[keen dome]

WoW mobile......

I can get declined from keys while in bed! Bring it on

[fallow nimbus]

old snd was enhanced by mastery

[swift tinsel]

that with sht would be nice

[fallow nimbus]

this should come back

[swift tinsel]

Hundy P

[alpine wraith]

yea i never understood why they took htat one out

[hazy breach]

With hunt them down you mean

[fallow nimbus]

i have like 20k vers and sim wants even more vers

[lilac stag]

What could go wrong by last tier with your mastery at 75% in s1

[alpine wraith]

WoD lvl of pre pull

with mastery set

[keen dome]

Wonder how high we'll be in S4 of TWW

[alpine wraith]

brrrrrrrrr

[vale pine]

i wouldn't mind if sht gets reworked

[swift tinsel]

it can be 15% of my damage instead of 7 lol

[vale pine]

and tornado

[fallow nimbus]

more autohits, more sht, more cp, more dance, more fluid rotation

[keen dome]

Let us use fist weapons OH

or swords

[lilac stag]

clearly s2 we need to return to GB/SS spam

[keen dome]

it would be cool and I live by the rule of cool

[lilac stag]

Delete all finishers but snd

[swift tinsel]

Bring back hemo

[lilac stag]

Hemo DN

[hazy breach]

It would also require somebody to put any amount of effort or thought into fixing something on subtlety

[swift tinsel]

pshhh

[hazy breach]

Which is unrealistic to expect

[swift tinsel]

Realz shadowbanned himself from here

[cinder axle]

Feels like bliz dosent get its own classes sometimes

[keen dome]

[wide magnet]

think sht needs heavy cost nerf and heavy damage buff

[keen dome]

I'm going to believe.

[wide magnet]

it should also absolutely be a 45s cd

[swift tinsel]

I wanna be a HaT rogue on retail

[lilac stag]

We don’t need another “apply to targrt” maintenance. If you’re bringing hemp back something needs the axe.

[hazy breach]

Tbf we people on here are sometimes a bit [this word was removed by a moderator]

So it makes sense that he cant be arsed interacting

[keen dome]

They're gonna add ethereals and rework sht and remove tornado and uh. Posion toggle.

[lilac stag]

Gonna fix RS too

[swift tinsel]

Yeah it was kinda funny watching all the creeps come out of the walls when he'd pop in during 10.2 rework stuff

[keen dome]

We can't ask that much.

[lilac stag]

just back to normal creeps now

[swift tinsel]

I can't imagine what Fel Hammer was like for him

[hazy breach]

Or people DMing him death threats Very fun

[swift tinsel]

that place is a brainless warzone

[lilac stag]

Fuck now I want crepes

[leaden prairie]

[keen dome]

[swift tinsel]

lmfao what

[keen dome]

People can't be normal online 😦

[lilac stag]

They were your hooligans. Even drove solo off

[leaden prairie]

I would also be ashamed of talking in here if i had released these hero talents

[swift tinsel]

Based

AF

[hazy breach]

DMing realz death threats seems like an appropriate response to adding the haste cap on outlaw dont you think? ./s

[swift tinsel]

dont forget removing Acro

[wide magnet]

i do wonder who comes up with and enforces these systems,, hero talents, azerite

[leaden prairie]

swear it wasnt me

[lilac stag]

Your clone

[swift tinsel]

[lilac stag]

[keen dome]

Bring back the carrot animation.

[swift tinsel]

wait what carrot animation lol

[leaden prairie]

but i mean any rando would have done a better job at making haste relevant than what they did so

[keen dome]

In the early Alpha build, Coup's animation was a carrot appearing on your target

Hence

[swift tinsel]

ahahahaha

[keen dome]

It was really funny

[leaden prairie]

back wehn rogeu had one cool animation

[keen dome]

coup de carotte

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/name-french-french-ass-name-damn-hold-up-gif-5006048

[lilac stag]

Carrot is the most work they’ve put into rogue animations in 3 expansions.

[tawdry kiln]

ky'veza like animations

[keen dome]

That's not true, they put a ton of work into our queen Princess Ky'veza, the ideeal Subtley rogue

[wide magnet]

different teams

[keen dome]

And we're going to get them as SecTec animations any day now

With our poison toggle.

[haughty mural]

surely

[lilac stag]

That’s the same copium people have for murlocs as a playable race

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/sukuna-malevolent-shrine-copium-gif-17048246567311451549

[keen dome]

Any day now

[swift tinsel]

Sure grandpa

[wide magnet]

ethereals charging through the pack in a triangle would be very cool

[keen dome]

Yeah

[swift tinsel]

you could actually see them too

what a world

[keen dome]

Playable ethereals are something I'm confident is gonna happen

So if I'm right about that, I'm right about the rest. that's just logic. 🫡

[wide magnet]

heh i can’t imagine wanting that

[unique nest]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[haughty mural]

we got the tool

[keen dome]

Tool?

[alpine wraith]

if you play transmitter in the open world

you can get a toy

and be an ethereal

[keen dome]

Oh, that. Yeah.

[swift tinsel]

whaaaaat

[alpine wraith]

you ahve all the animations kinda

[keen dome]

I've been using it a lot and yet to get the toy.

Someday...

[alpine wraith]

@vale pine also knows the pain he got his first proc stolen

[haughty mural]

yea i meant toy not tool

kek

[wide magnet]

what’s the toy

does it function in combat?

[vale pine]

[hexed bluff]

I appreciate all of you and your effort to share you knowledge with us ❤️

[wide magnet]

yw

someone has to do it.. 🗣️

[alpine wraith]

hmm

[upbeat sorrel]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[edgy zenith]

it's so interesting that letting Clear the Witness procs fade is a gain. I would imagine since dance CDR is so bad, we would munch up the procs whenever we could for the extra points

also, what is the reason for not using Clear the Witness in symbols? i understand for dance, bc SS, but why not in symbols? isn't symbols just a flat % damage increase?

Inevitability is the only reason?

[fair stump]

Huh, I've been using CTW every time it pops

That was wrong?

[edgy zenith]

ye, only supposed to send outside of symbols

[iron fjord]

aight i think we were dooming too much

it doesnt feel that horrible

but certainly worse

[upbeat sorrel]

Just got transmitter yesterday do I macro it to flag

Or do I want it before flag

[iron fjord]

not macroing is better as you get more control on the position of the trinket spawn

[edgy zenith]

you don't have control of the trinket spawn ever. but it always spawns at the same location

macroing to Flag is fine and won't lose you any damage

[upbeat sorrel]

how do i know where it spawns

[iron fjord]

i meant the position, sometimes you want to turn around and use transmiter

[upbeat sorrel]

was trying it out first time on court prog yesterday it was awful couldnt find it half the time

[iron fjord]

which you cant when it's macrod to something that needs to be used on a target in front of you

[iron fjord]

always top right of you

[edgy zenith]

always spawns NE of whatever direction your character is facing

[lilac stag]

!transmitter

[wicked jolt]

The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png

[tidal python]

World of Roguecraft

[upbeat sorrel]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-patrick-star-weast-gif-13411644

cool ty

[coarse nexus]

with kush build (no cb) do you just tea during dance?

[vale pine]

sub got buffed

so yep

[hazy breach]

Macro it with dance yes

[upbeat sorrel]

outlaw good again? time to get arthritis

[edgy zenith]

was kush playing sub this morning?

[fair stump]

Sweet

[hazy breach]

Although id say just stick with cb

[fair stump]

We're getting nerfed

[hazy breach]

"Subs singletarget is a bit too strong, we better nerf eviscerate"

[fair stump]

Eleem, do you play the aoe build on some raid bosses?

Or stick with the ST one?

[coarse nexus]

feels nice having 200 energy tho

[hazy breach]

I mean theres very little difference, just make sure you have imp storm if theres ever any adds

[warm marlin]

The eternal problem with making half the specs in the game cleave blade flurry based

[hazy breach]

Well deathstalker isnt

[fair stump]

DS is the one outperforming

[warm marlin]

Ye I know ur referring to pressing BP instead in st

[hazy breach]

But the problem is if you nerf eviscerate, BP is gonna become better in ST

[fair stump]

Which means trickster is doomed

[hazy breach]

Sure but it doesnt do anything

[iron fjord]

wait that's exactly what everyone wants riiiiight?

[edgy zenith]

man, it's crazy that none of these black powder buffs/DS buffs would have been needed if they just fixed the bugs

DS would have been better in ST, Trickster would have been better in AoE

[hazy breach]

Tbf trickster has a lot of bugs too

[fair stump]

What bugs

[hazy breach]

But it feels good so its alright

[hazy breach]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e2w0iHBCVp8K7hdSk1T8RKtUK9lr4FsRqFWd68FCQnk/pubhtml?gid=579089422&single=true

[fair stump]

Man, sectec not benefitting from SB is a bug?

[vestal rover]

Sub is viable again? with the buffs?

[fair stump]

Sub has been viable since a while

[vestal rover]

nah I wanted to ask if i's even compared with assa in M+

[hazy breach]

Call it what you want, but its clearly not intuitive based on the tooltips that it doesnt work on it

[vestal rover]

Do we play deathstalker on sub now?

[alpine wraith]

sec tech is a bit special yea

[edgy zenith]

wait wtf, Trickster made parry not exist for all raid members?

that's OP as fuck

2 raid buffs

holy

and top dam in raid

rogues have had it good for too long

[fair stump]

BP has been buffed by 65% at this point, I think?

[vestal rover]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vestal rover]

!pins

[fair stump]

what do you drop in favor of imp storm?

[hazy breach]

Gloomblade and shadow focus

Shadow focus does nothing

[fair stump]

What else do we get in exchange for SF?

Oh, RS

[hazy breach]

imp sht or rs, but anything really

All of them suck ass

[fallow nimbus]

Damn with DS parry is back

[sick jackal]

what is that build?

[coarse nexus]

something like this

[alpine wraith]

a bit diff you dont really go for PV

inev and DD are better even if you end up only with 2 finality

also tfd is important

[coarse nexus]

this is what he played

not saying its good or w/e

[alpine wraith]

if you want to play tea this should be better likely

[lethal gale]

Anyone have a good wa for when DN is up? for some reason I think one I tried to make isnt working right

[upbeat sorrel]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fallow nimbus]

I have a mark/dn icon

[tidal meadow]

Do we start using BP now that its buffed? Or is it still evis in aoe aswell?

[alpine wraith]

if you are trickster it is likely you still evis until higher target count

[young path]

Yes, 100%

[hazy breach]

Yes

You gotta make sure to use a rotten charge with storm to apply FW, otherwise its not worth

[tidal meadow]

5+ targets bp?

[hazy breach]

Ye

Its about equal on 5

[tidal meadow]

just getting back into sub, havent played it since SL s2

[hazy breach]

As deathstalker you BP at 2 (while still using evis for darkest night)

[tidal meadow]

And trickster is still bis?

[hazy breach]

even for prio damage for deathstalker bp is better

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker for ST, probably trickster for m+ still, but unsure

Its atleast way closer than before

[bleak wind]

I would assume DS for stonevalt or arakara at least

[young path]

Iron wire is phenomenally good in keys though, so you’re really competing with 2 things imo

General WoW public that probably doesn’t know much about rogues and sees a tier list saying assa is the only viable spec

Secondly, I speculate groups that want iron wire for add management

I’ve ran a few 12s and 13s with equitable io assa rogues and haven’t lost in overall yet (pre BP buff)

[stiff spear]

What would a Deathstalker build for Add fights like Ulgrax or Bloodbound Horror look like?

[hazy breach]

I dont think its as simple as big pull = deathstalker and vice versa. Tricksters burst is way better

Deathstalker has better priority damage though

[young path]

Casting BP w/trickster has it’s moments, it can be quite gigantic I can assure you

[bleak wind]

oh also @hazy breach could black powder for danse stacks be a thing now

in ST

[hazy breach]

Seemed neutral when i checked

[stiff spear]

Just use ST build and cast BP? Feels like full AOE isn't worth with how fast adds die

[fair stump]

I managed to break 6m dps on the first pull of tirna due to spamming BP as trickster

Its insane

[iron fjord]

did anyone of you try ds in keys a bit? how does it feel

[vale pine]

we are one bp buff away from shananigans like this

[wet summit]

feels great honestly

[vale pine]

ds feels fine, i like trickster more

[fleet maple]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[iron fjord]

more deeps than trickster?

[wet summit]

Do we still play trickster ST or do we play DS now?

[wet summit]

Uhm i've managed to pull bigger numbers but alot of it is pad basically

[soft stump]

So with break the meta announced how much vers should i try to aim for? I know i gotta swap out rings, neck, and a trinket atleast. I have a few pieces i kept with vers so i didnt have to farm for a pvp piece lol. Is ascendance good on offhand?

[hazy breach]

Its not really pad though

[clever delta]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Honestly quite the opposite

[wind canopy]

!stats Whatever you can get.

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility > Critical Strike > Haste

[bleak wind]

we are one bp buff away from not needing evis

[fair stump]

What is break the meta

[wet summit]

oh really, interesting i think it feels great to press BP tbh. so i'd recommend trying it out to people.

[hazy breach]

With the mark, darkest night and singular focus its way better priority damage than it might feel like at first glance

[soft stump]

something raider.io is hosting where you play off meta picks for m+ in a competition

[fair stump]

65% dmg buff in the last month is crazy

[ornate quest]

I watched a video on the youtube's about class tuning or something that said deathstalker would become better than trickster and I'm confused on how.

[hazy breach]

Its numbers went up by a lot

[alpine wraith]

yes

[ornate quest]

so will it be worth changing hero talents?

[alpine wraith]

if you want to do more dmg sure

but your mental may take a hit

[ornate quest]

I'm already mentally insane, I started WoW playing Rogue and now other classes make no sense to me.

[fair stump]

Same but I played PvP when I got into this damned game

[honest grail]

Hey guys, first time playing sub tonight

[weary kite]

Goodluck

[alpine wraith]

eviscerate does damage

[honest grail]

Any pitfalls I should avoid in terms of rotation?

[median nacelle]

what do i pick here (m+ only player) - i have crafted wep and a mythic track dagger already and my gloves are hero track so btw gloves mythic track or daggy offhand myth track

[alpine wraith]

try to fill all the globals of dance

[weary kite]

Dagger

No questions.

[median nacelle]

really that big of a deal on oh?

i forgot to mention lol

[fair stump]

No

[median nacelle]

dagger has avoidance

[hazy breach]

No offhand super unimportant

[alpine wraith]

you would upgrade it to 639 and use it on mainhand

[ornate quest]

what would be the best Deathstalker hero talents? I've got bait and switch, momentum of despair, shade-walker, and lingering darkness. are these the best options?

[fair stump]

He already has a mythic dagger tho

[median nacelle]

ya i have one alrdy

[ornate quest]

get 2

[median nacelle]

ill go with daggy since avoidance

[fair stump]

You could sim having both mythic daggers, I guess

[median nacelle]

ya

easier to get gloves again i think ?

[timid reef]

is it worth to use Thistle tea in trickster build? or u still wanna go with cold blood?

[weary kite]

double mythic daggers always, fuck a sim.

[median nacelle]

fuck the sim confirmed

[weary kite]

if you have embel dagger, move it around.

[weary kite]

big

[small hemlock]

is !sims updated for the new sub buffs?

!sims

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[small hemlock]

!fuu i mean

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[honest grail]

Does the gameplay come down to sending everything on cd or

Like I send flag on cd at max cp, along with shadowblades, and send symbols and dance whenever

[lilac stag]

No

[short acorn]

I switch to Subtlety to deal with the 3rd and 4th bosses in The Necrotic Wake. Is Deathstalker better for single target?

[fallen crescent]

No. I would check Hachadinos spreadsheet and try to figure it out because it is not intuitive.

[short acorn]

I am not a native English speaker so the grammar may be wrong.

[lilac stag]

You’re holding to max cds with sectech

[slate nest]

DS is better for ST yes

[honest grail]

Where could I find this

[hazy breach]

It makes it look way more complicated than it really is

It mostly doesnt matter much exactly when you use your non-flag dances+symbols

[lilac stag]

DS higher ST. Trick better burst.

[hazy breach]

If you can do it with cold blood then go ahead, if timings dont align then just dont

[fallen crescent]

Thats an opinion. Im more of a visual learner and it helped me out. Seeing the times and what cds to use depending on the timeline.

[slate nest]

Okay, what about pvp? I see everyone playing deathstalker but idk how good it is on aoe pvp scenarios

[lilac stag]

#pvp

[weary kite]

Yo Eleem you got a cook on a what sub is running for DS in keys>

[short acorn]

hm... what is DS and ST..?

[lilac stag]

Death Stalker. single target

[short acorn]

death

ohohoh okok

[median nacelle]

what mastery u guys chillin at?

rating

[short acorn]

thank you everyone

[lilac stag]

Almost 80%

[median nacelle]

sheesh im 71%

[honest grail]

At what flag remaining cd should I hold dance/symbols?

[lilac stag]

626 knife helps

[hazy breach]

Roughly 20-30

[small hemlock]

experiment 626?

https://tenor.com/view/stitch-lilo-and-ohana-hi-gif-1390638291661412267

[uneven scarab]

Wish i had a 626 knife dayum

[hazy breach]

The rule of thumb is to have 1 charge and atleast 40s left on your second charge whenever you press flag

To have 2 during cds

[honest grail]

Right so I should always have 2 during CD's

[uneven scarab]

2 dance 2 sod during flag+blades

[hazy breach]

You should always use 2 during cds yes

But you dont need to have 2 charges when you press flag