that's why you use sod/st while moving
#subtlety
lilac stag
tribal blade
looks like you can send on cd if you want
tribal blade
@lilac stag NO LAG ON OVI
I
AM
SO
FUCKING
MAD
HOLY
SHIT
i could have been playing sub on ovi this whole time with no lag
i'm also doing more damage as sub because not having lag when adds are out is a massive difference
vernal yoke
Random question, does anyone know if The Rotten makes both Shadowstrikes from a Weaponmaster proc crit? Or is it just the first
lilac stag
tell your melee to thank me as well
What’s nice is feint plus your vers basically negates a ton of the dmg
tribal blade
tell your melee to thank me as well
yeah one of the fury warrs on my team is so happy i'm sub on the fight
tribal blade
What’s nice is feint plus your vers basically negates a ton of the dmg
true i noticed i can actually get hit by puddles and not proc cheat now
or get 1 shot
lilac stag
my job here is done. Time for 
tribal blade
sub is bae again
lilac stag
I need to farm 20 crests tomorrow to make neck. fml
broken fern
should my first 2 sparks just be 2x weapons? or should i craft something else
lilac stag
tribal blade
should my first 2 sparks just be 2x weapons? or should i craft something else
if you're gonna craft weps don't make 2, just 1
tribal blade
I need to farm 20 crests tomorrow to make neck. fml
that's what, time 2 keys
lilac stag
should my first 2 sparks just be 2x weapons? or should i craft something else
Weapon and ring/writs
lilac stag
that's what, time 2 keys
2 too many
lilac stag
hahah
broken fern
and i should make 2x elemental focusing lense? or do they not stack
tribal blade
and i should make 2x elemental focusing lense? or do they not stack
dagger with ascendance is a very safe pick
it's decent everywhere
and you can use it on all 3 specs easily
broken fern
already crafted dagger with elemental, should i recraft it? or is 2x elemental fine
tribal blade
most likely fine, embels are quite low impact compared to before
so you can kinda run w/e and be mostly fine
tribal blade
no worries! obviously if you sim there might be a somewhat significant difference
but probably nothing too major
broken fern
hopefully not, i cba getting a recraft
lilac stag
I run focusing because I’m not weak like prophet giving into assa tendencies at every whim.
pliant topaz
based
lilac stag
No cap
lilac stag
It is
broken fern
sub is that perfect cool spec that is hard to play as well and i can really sink time into it and learn it
lilac stag
Right now trickster is fun. Outside of the RS bug
broken fern
whats rs sorry? and whats the bug?
lilac stag
we don’t talk about deathstalker
Replicating shadows. It’s causes a random time delay on your cp refund that can basically happen at any point during the gcd after the finisher.
You play a waiting game of do I or don’t I
broken fern
oh so true actually ive noticed that too
annoys me so bad
i thought i was just bad lol
tribal blade
I run focusing because I’m not weak like prophet giving into assa tendencies at ...
yeah RS bug is infuriating
no point running RS unless you're doing a key
and even depending on key level you can probably just not use RS and be fine
tribal blade
i watched that music video for the first time because of you guys linking it in here
lilac stag
song is an ear worm
tribal blade
not really my kind of music, but the visuals are hypnotic ngl
lilac stag
I’m a metal head. That damn tune is catchy and leaves me questioning my life.
pliant topaz
broken fern
I’m a metal head. That damn tune is catchy and leaves me questioning my life.
what song is it??
broken fern
oh yeah rip thats gonna be stuck in my head now
vale pine
I’m a metal head. That damn tune is catchy and leaves me questioning my life.
i am immune to it, didn't get stuck in my head
even tho stealthy tried rly hard by playing it in a loop during progress
lilac stag
2.2 billion views. https://youtu.be/8SbUC-UaAxE?si=sOZtijym7NPcxCcT
tepid trellis
even tho stealthy tried rly hard by playing it in a loop during progress
The war is not lost
median nacelle
i made a ticket about the RS bug, i'll keep you guys updated
alpine wraith
any day now
spark tusk
Pretty sure they're aware and have been since it was reported close to when it came out
spark tusk
2?
alpine wraith
yea it was bugged since df
spark tusk
wasn't it season 3 of df?
alpine wraith
nah it was before too
spark tusk
wait which bug I thought it was shadowcraft with rs bug
and shadowcraft was in season 3 df
is my brain cooked
spark tusk
oh
I see
you gave me a mini heart attack making me think seasons 3 df was 2 years ago for a second
native zodiac
🤝
sly shore
A trinket was literally the only slot I needed
tepid trellis
im 631.8 equipped we are not the same
keen dome
Another week, another set of tier shoulders in my vault. The game wants me to wear multiple shoulders..
sly shore
im 631.8 equipped we are not the same
Once I upgrade trinket I'll be 637.5 I think 💀
keen dome
That's a mighty powerful rogue
alpine wraith
this week i upgrade something and also craft head finally
keen dome
I think I can hit 628ish if I stop being very very lazy.
Realistically I probably don't stop being very very lazy.
haughty mural
Still nobody in here wants to spread dots, right?
solar charm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
haughty mural
Tonight I had a dream about a possible solution. 😛
Short: keep a dot to "maintain", which deals good damage (because finisher). But also remove multidotting from this spec (and possible solve RS bug at the same time).
idk if we are open for cooking atm in here.
vestal escarp
haughty mural
good ring i guess
vestal escarp
yup pick is ring
vestal escarp
with dawn ring i would have completed the neck-ring-craft ring offset
since i looted court neck
haughty mural
big
merry agate
Wait... The RS bug happens when im just specced into it? Every Finisher can get delayed?
Thought it just happens with rupture 🫣
sly shore
it is just with rupture
pulsar mauve
is it ? I'm fairly sure I'm having the issue during CDs
and i'm not using rupture during them
sly shore
I haven't had that issue ever
coup is slightly delayed
but other than that all normal
merry agate
it is just with rupture
okay... read some old messages way up and it seemed like it impacts everything somehow 🫣
merry agate
is it ? I'm fairly sure I'm having the issue during CDs
having these issues sometimes as well.... in opener shadowcrat dosnt work even if symbols is up and all 🤔
pulsar mauve
Any reason why Lense on ring would be less good than lense on dagger ?
or it's just margin of error
sly shore
same thing, so margin of error
shy ermine
is it ? I'm fairly sure I'm having the issue during CDs
it happens on any finisher not just rupture
i don't know why some people experience it more than others, might be an input tolerance thing
lilac stag
Any reason why Lense on ring would be less good than lense on dagger ?
or it's j...
Only ilvl matters for lenses. It’s scales, but very poorly.
lilac stag
it is just with rupture
It’s finishers. Not just rupture.
pulsar mauve
okay i'm just getting baited by margin of error I guess then
lilac stag
okay i'm just getting baited by margin of error I guess then
Post sim?
sly shore
It’s finishers. Not just rupture.
very weird, not noticed it myself
pulsar mauve
ye i expected the 639 dagger to be bigger
hidden spade
Im so torn between equipping or selling right now haha
zenith hollow
sell now if you are going to it's only gonna get cheaper
hidden spade
yeah i think its too much gold not to
tribal blade
Im so torn between equipping or selling right now haha
depends what content you're doing tbh, if you're not pushing high M+ you don't really need it
zenith hollow
depends on your server too anyone who wants one can just go buy a cheaper one ~400k
hidden spade
well i mainly do M+ and just pug first 4m, and im on a very low pop server, guess ill check prices once ive finished raid
leaden prairie
it is just with rupture
armin told me it was every finisher
and i experienced it with every finisher myself
sly shore
Yeah I stand corrected, just not noticed it
but my spell queue window is like 120 or some shit
just pressing buttons frfr
vale pine
120 seems low
tribal blade
yeah it's every finisher while in symbols
i've tried playing around predicting when it's gonna refund, but it's basically impossible
so you kinda just have to eat the fact you're gonna waste CPs
i'm curious how much of a dps loss you guys think it is
lilac stag
120 seems low
I’m at 140 (6ms is my server connection)
vale pine
I’m at 140 (6ms is my server connection)
i tested low ones but haven't found any diffrence
tribal blade
i wish i had normal ms
lilac stag
well i mainly do M+ and just pug first 4m, and im on a very low pop server, gues...
Sell it. Getting a fancy ring in dot7
lilac stag
i tested low ones but haven't found any diffrence
I instantly notice the bug. So yeah I don’t think it matters
vale pine
200-250 is best one or default
tribal blade
is there any kind of special thing you can do with that if you play with ~200 ms
haughty mural
tribal blade
i tried messing around with it during DF but it completely screwed up my sense of timings
haughty mural
i could never
tribal blade
yeah it's pretty bad lol, but you get used to it
until you remember you're playing at a permanent disadvantage
just can't play the "it's because of lag" excuse on every little thing
lilac stag
Do the vpn connections help? Thought idk if that’s a tos thing.
tribal blade
someone on frostmourne told me they used a special vpn that gave them normal ms to NA
OCE > NA
but then someone else told me that it's basically bullshit, and there's no way to actually speed up the connection with a vpn
and i know nothing about this stuff so i have no idea who to believe
lilac stag
less routing is the hope I’m assuming
tribal blade
could be
he was using a paid vpn i remember him saying
a special one for gaming iirc
lilac stag
Which server cluster are you going to
tribal blade
i'm in hong kong and i play on NA stormrage
lilac stag
Yea there are gamer vpns
tribal blade
uhhh i think that's.. east coast
tribal blade
gotcha
it's definitely not LA
i made a character on proudmoore before which is PST (west coast), and my connection was better
vale pine
is there any kind of special thing you can do with that if you play with ~200 ms
200-250 makes the most sense for outlaw
tribal blade
the thing is recently one of the guys came to check out our internet and he discovered we were stacking router boxes on top of each other
which was basically cooking stuff
so now my internet is more stable and runs better
so that directly made my internet a bit better thankfully
vale pine
nicu
tribal blade
i also made some steps to try to put things in positions where they can get the most airflow possible
because we had a router in the closet, and that thing was just hot all the time
all places here are concrete, so it makes setting up internet connections really fucky apparently
lilac stag
i made a character on proudmoore before which is PST (west coast), and my connec...
Likely routing. That is an la server. I’d maybe look and see if vpns are ok and try one.
tribal blade
Likely routing. That is an la server. I’d maybe look and see if vpns are ok and ...
you know what it could be worth it
lilac stag
They each have different results if I remember.
I was looking at them when my isp was having routing issues.
I just don’t recall what the tos says.
vale pine
if you have issues with your isp, you can try what i suggested in #wow-general some days ago
to see if a public dns is better than your isp's
^ reference
tribal blade
I just don’t recall what the tos says.
i don't think it's against tos to use a vpn, but i could be mistaken
lilac stag
I just say it as a precaution to not get you banned. 
bliz weird with some shit and thier botting tech
I get some oce peeps with 150ms in keys at times so it def is possible.
vale pine
i don't think it's against tos to use a vpn, but i could be mistaken
vpn can cause performance degrations, a dns typically doees not
ill explain why
Your connections goes:
Your PC ⟺ Game Server
Adding a VPN:
Your PC ⟺ The Proxy/VPN server ⟺ Game Server
So your connection needs to go extra miles to reach the server and then back to you
tribal blade
ahh ok i see
alpine wraith
for wow it is actually better to use vpns because their routing is most of the time fucked up in many places in EU with telia cursed nodes and in NA with AT&T and comcast ones
vale pine
if you get better results, it can be for multiple things:
- The ping is calculated from the proxy endpoint, masking latency between you and the proxy
- your ispn has bad routing, and the vpn connects you with a better endpoint
alpine wraith
so wow is a special case kinda
vale pine
for wow it is actually better to use vpns because their routing is most of the t...
a custom dns should usually solve the problem too and does not require the potential latency costs from a vpn
alpine wraith
well most of the time it is packet loss and bad requests from nodes even if you resolve if the packets get hung you will still get annoying lag
best thing is try both and use the one that works best
vale pine
fair
alpine wraith
most vpn things have free trials i dont use any but it works well for many
vale pine
the free tiers of vpn's are typically slow
alpine wraith
yea i use my own things
vale pine
because what vpn providers do is basically offer a certain capacity to everyone but lock away the rest for the subscribing users
alpine wraith
makes sense big money
vale pine
so what happens is, if you browse its not that noticable unless the website has a lot of media
but its typical for gamers to be more pwoer users
so e.g. you use spotify or youtube music for audio playback
then you have a potentially twitch stream open on your 2nd monitor
and the twitch stream can already be enough to use the aviable bandwith
or even worse, wouldn't even load (stuck buffering)
alpine wraith
you have to kill both but tank will move them together
the one that hits tank is the one that can move you hit that one yea
short radish
thanks
dry plank
!up
wicked joltBOT
sly shore
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
plush roost
I played some sub in keys today
Nothing crazy just some farm 12s.
Is 1.86m overall bad or good
Mists and NW for reference
NW was lower, only 1.67m but I also trolled my cds a bit
vale pine
sub is not bad in mythic+
plush roost
Also tfd feels so good, i found myself with a second sec tech coming up on the tail end of it, send it? Or just wait for next dance?
Like the last global of tfd
If its like old trickster you just send it and immediately dance again right?
thick cedar
Hi Guys, I got a Myth Skardyn's in the vault, sims saying knife and transmitter at 619 are better, any ideas?
plush roost
2 min cd isn't ideal for sub timings
Phenomenal on Sin tho
So if you play that, i would take it
thick cedar
Nah Sub only. Thanks mate.
tepid trellis
but my spell queue window is like 120 or some shit
80 
sly shore
paper iron
80 <:basegcat:1107701282577334292>
0 or nothing
Actually i tried outlaw at 0 for fun Last season it Was legit unplayable. Gotta smash buttons harder
grizzled hornet
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hazy breach
Late response, but definitely run imp storm on ovinax, shadow focus is completely useless
Ye you wont storm parasites, but you can def get some storms on worms/spiders
tribal blade
Late response, but definitely run imp storm on ovinax, shadow focus is completel...
yeah stands to reason imp storm is just much better on that
well not much better, but like you said SF is complete garbage
hazy breach
SF is literally 0.3% sim dps
tribal blade
they need to do something about that node
they should either rework, retune or just make it a utility node
having talents that are extremely low impact like that is depressing
vale pine
they need to do something about that node
go back to 2nd vanish charge
so its a utility node
tribal blade
go back to 2nd vanish charge
i agree! we should get w/o a trace back
the big issue is the way blizz has redesigned subterfuge and put without a trace in that spot and the way it ties into outlaw and sin
means if they give it back to us they have to make a bunch of changes
i imagine
vale pine
just put a vanish cdr
tribal blade
true i forgot about that idea you had
vale pine
vanish is 1 min, 1 min 30 or so cooldown instead of 2 min
you can control the power level with the cooldown
tribal blade
i think 1 min vanish would be cool
vale pine
it would be a buff to both specs
if they want friction
they do something like 1 min 20
or 1 min 15
i know they love weird timings
or 1 min 25
sounds fun
tribal blade
nah weird timings is exclusively for sub 😉
weary kite
On court, if you cloak web vortex, do you still pair up?
hazy breach
No
alpine wraith
you break it
hazy breach
Ye but if you precloak it wont be applied
vernal drum
This way yes
But since it deal magic damage, and the third dash the raid need webers, it is interesting to tell the other side of how it work
fast surge
yes
sinful sluice
If i get fucked up by tomorow’s vault again i dont think i can hold it up anymore
Already got 12 tokens, wish me luck plz 💀
alpine wraith
im already capped on tockens
you can get gold because they dont even let you get half sparks unless you are behind
smh
i wish you could get gildeds instead
swift tinsel
Agreed, if you unlock Harbinger gilded conversion the token vendor should sell gilded crests
hazy breach
Agreed, if you unlock Harbinger gilded conversion the token vendor should sell g...
Doesnt it do that already
Like if you have all 639 achivement on your account it unlocks it for your alts i think
Since the other ones are based on that
swift tinsel
I thought it topped out at runed, don't have anyone at all 639 atm to check
like my mage has the ability to convert runed to gilded, but the token vendor still only sells runed crests for tokens
so it would take two weeks of taking tokens to get 15 gilded crests
fallow raven
is this tallent still bugged?
timid rivet
Hello sorry to bother but someone can help me ? I've started wow for the first time at the end of DF and since TWW release i wanted to learn more and improve myself on the game, i play mainly sub and i want to understand what i'm doing wrong for better parses and overall damage etc
my warcraftlogs : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/hyjal/chickn
sullen hare
is this tallent still bugged?
depends on what you mean by bugged. I've had it evade bug out the add on the ramps at the last boss of necrotic wake because it tried to snap to the tank so anytime I get to that boss I just click off tricks and move the ability off its keybind to protect myself from autopilot pressing the keybind
lilac stag
Tricks would do that regardless of so tricky if you had casted it for some reason when down there. That’s just snapping.
hazy breach
It also doesnt snap immediately. He tries to run towards the tank first
sullen hare
yes, technically correct, so tricky just makes it more likely to happen
hazy breach
So if you see him running/not hitting you
lilac stag
kidney
hazy breach
Just send a kidney and then remove your buff
sullen hare
these are all possible workarounds yes
hazy breach
Tbf you could probably also just kill it during kidney with dance
strange chasm
The 1hr tricks buff doesn't work in raid right
vale pine
it does
strange chasm
Hm hasn't been working for me on queen I don't think
hazy breach
It does
You just need to proc it during your 30s window once
Its the 6s threat transfer thats changed to 60 minutes, not the 30s window before its applied
daring marlin
do you like not having a choice
hazy breach
Not sure what you mean
vale pine
boots can be catalysted
lilac stag
Casually ignoring the SG at 639. #nochoices
edgy zenith
you guys play at that high of spell queue window? I play at 85
but I was also palying Outlaw at the start of the tier
vale pine
you guys play at that high of spell queue window? I play at 85
either stay on default or use 200-250
there is no real reason to set it lower, as you lose all benefits
edgy zenith
i feel like with default I couldn't react to Ace procs on Outlaw
especially if there was some latency
vale pine
spell queue window has nothing to do with reaction time
lowering the spell queue window does reduce the chance of accidental casts
because 400 ms (the default) is half of your global during adrenalin rush
edgy zenith
yes, poor verbage
strange chasm
Also btw the finery's do not have a catchup mechanic. If you miss a week you are screwed
hazy breach
You sure you dont have some on any of your alts
strange chasm
I put in a ticket as I've gotten zero on any alt clears I've done
Was told it's limited to unique boss kills per account not character.
So I'm capped at 13 this week instead of being able to get 16
swift merlin
Did this Finery shit exist in DF? I didn't play last xpac
strange chasm
Which is strange because some people have said they've gotten 20 in a week
Meanwhile I missed last week and have only gotten 13
zenith hollow
when we go into dance we want to be empty on combo points and first global is shadowstrike into sectech not eviscerate like it used to be?
swift tinsel
Something is screwy with finery then bc I went from 8 to 32 after a heroic reclear, including 8 in my mailbox this morning
and I looted every boss
uneven scarab
when we go into dance we want to be empty on combo points and first global is sh...
Doesn’t really matter, you can be on full or empty
sour stump
How is sub performing in raid and m+?
swift tinsel
Quite well
uneven scarab
Its good
swift tinsel
in both
sour stump
Good stuff
strange chasm
Something is screwy with finery then bc I went from 8 to 32 after a heroic recle...
That's crazy. I'm confused how I missed a week and now I'm unable to obtain the buff this week
zenith hollow
Doesn’t really matter, you can be on full or empty
Is the first finisher still sectech noticed alot of logs doing that. Are we big evis damage instead of sectech now?
strange chasm
Seems unintended
swift tinsel
That's crazy. I'm confused how I missed a week and now I'm unable to obtain the ...
Acquisition is extremely inconsistent, when they first went live and I was only clearing on my main it wasn't getting the full amount each week
then I hopped on my rogue this week and got 24
shits weird
uneven scarab
Is the first finisher still sectech noticed alot of logs doing that. Are we big ...
Yeah sectech first
edgy zenith
nah, I swear on my life there is a massive difference between 85 spell queue and 250. like a positive gain from using 85. at 250 everything feels so sluggish and unresponsive
getting awful feeling slow globals on opener, press the macro to change to 85, INSTANTLY fixes it
at 250 they even like rubber band sometimes and don't go off if you like run out of range
feels horrible
uneven scarab
I think i play on default but ive never rlly noticed a difference
delicate cave
Do you rupture multiple targets in m+?
hazy breach
Yes
Outside of shadow dance you want to apply ruptures to anything that lives ~12s or so
(assuming the damage to them is relevant, so maybe not on the smallies on last boss grim batol for example)
jade canopy
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
swift tinsel
classic classic, so you can classic while you classic
vast basin
!wa
lilac stag
@pliant topaz had a blue and a purple parse yesterday. 
rng was working
pliant topaz
huge, we're so back
lilac stag
so few parses. it's a blood bath
muted agate
can we raid others houses as rogues
uneven scarab
We should be able to lock pick the house
wild hornet
deathstalker in pure st and trick for cleave/aoe right?
round latch
isnt dark ranger the super broken hero tree that got nerfed lately
swift tinsel
parts of it either don't do damage or were double dipping
and the double dipping got removed
round latch
yeah something like that,double dipping and doing silly stuff in arena
was malding on my mage how i can die that fast
swift tinsel
yeah black arrow was nuking
tender umbra
tips on things to cast before starting an mm+ ? triple sod works before starting ?
alpine wraith
only 1 SoD works
after key bergins you can use another one but not always it is worth
solar charm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
thick temple
I'm noticing that when I try to eviscerate a target I kinda magnet pull to them? I've died in keys due to this. What's the mechanic happening
I think it happens during dance the most
sullen hare
It's coup
thick temple
Man
uneven scarab
Yeah the coup evisc dashes you to ur target if you’re out of melee
Its nearly killed me many times
sullen hare
We call it getting cat memed in my guild because it's similar to how skull bash works
swift tinsel
liability during web blades lol
uneven scarab
Dude web blades is when its always got me squeezing my buttcheeks
thick temple
I trolled on siege 11 during that second boss when the adds are out
And there's like 40 swirlies on the ground
Coup came in clutch and dragged me to death D:
sullen hare
Or necrotic wake with the spine crush - that ones almost gotten me once or twice
thick temple
Idk ik I'm in tip off melee range still but that coup pull in wants me to be in the target's nuts idgi
sullen hare
Those are usually pretty safe because there's no reason to be out of melee range on goregrind I think
Unless it pulls you into the green muck on the floor 
young path
after key bergins you can use another one but not always it is worth
Necrotic wake… 2-3 storm ruptures while pull gathers… super charger first dance into sstrike sec tech sstrike evis (almost always a coup) into a flawless and macabre buffed bp tornado bp spam
Giga fun and ridiculously high dps, especially if u are willing to commit more super charger points that early during the tornado bp spam
swift tinsel
how many mobs are in that first pull?
thick temple
Wait u guys arent triple SoD'ing during ur first flag/transmitter burst
young path
Ask your tank to share route
(Usually 12ish)
swift tinsel
you'd probably be better off evisc over bp on the gatekeeper
young path
you'd probably be better off evisc over bp on the gatekeeper
Maybe maybe not… that tank buster mob scarier on the higher keys
warm ibex
I got 5$ cash for anyone to teach me how to play sub
young path
Gatekeeper ez… shield 1, link 2 cloak 3 if it lives that long
swift tinsel
in either case, more prio damage
lilac stag
I got 5$ cash for anyone to teach me how to play sub
I gotcha. Swap to assa and just press buttons on cd.
$5
young path
in either case, more prio damage
That’s not always the answer… but I’m almost always confused so there’s that
alpine wraith
Necrotic wake… 2-3 storm ruptures while pull gathers… super charger first dance ...
never use chargers on ruptures
you go directly into flag sec tech
young path
never use chargers on ruptures
Subjective but don’t necessarily disagree
jaunty heath
Hey guys, long time rogue player, mained ass for some time but want to pick up sub for raid - is the ST build in the pins still the go to? Or should I refer WoWhead? Cheers!
alpine wraith
the trickster one should be ok
tender umbra
with aug in raid, is this trickster on every boss pretty much ?
sullen hare
It's pretty much trickster every boss anyway at this point
tender umbra
k k
young path
Wago is has a really good one
sullen hare
The tts one on wago is what I use. I modified it to say "pad or ball" though
because I didn't like whatever it says by default
haughty mural
else there would also be the fuu one just in case
did LE add one to her pack ?
i usually like her stuff very much
young path
you go directly into flag sec tech
3 ruptures (6 out total) while gathering costing 2 super charger points versus not doing any damage awaiting pull to gather before full sending… I think is an extremely fair trade is all
I couldn’t imagine a m+ scenario holding in that manner would be good
6ish globals feels like an eternity
Especially when the rest of your group is popping off
alpine wraith
in nw the first gather is trash mobs that die in 4 secs
ideally tank goes directly to the big necro guy then does a right and comes after then you can get 2 good ruptures at least
but yea you would still strike flag rupture then go into dance cds
you still get 5 decent chargets and 2 ruptures i guess
young path
in nw the first gather is trash mobs that die in 4 secs
What key level u speak of? Wish they died in 4 seconds
And no, step harvester and tank buster
topaz raptor
what are you doing step-harvester??
young path
Sprint.. then sstrike from stealth
While targeting harvester
I mean, who knows… I’m always wrong
alpine wraith
i mean you might be doing more dmg to the harvester that is not always bad
generally ruptures are worth if mob survives 12 secs problem is that supercharger makes them last longer only
young path
Overall plays just as much as an impact as prio in high keys
alpine wraith
so you are losing a 4x% amp on an evis for like nothing
swift tinsel
yeah thats like a 40sec rupture
swift tinsel
if sub had sudden demise
alpine wraith
you get sec tech back doing 1 or 2 ruptures then go back into third and fourth dance
and because those are not charged the 12 secs rule or so applies well
young path
If I can, I’ll post a video tonight … u may just broaden your perspective
(Of that pull)
Think I’ve tried about a million different versions trying different ways… I’m just sayn there always better ways to skin a cat
alpine wraith
yea it just does not last long enough on what i've done if mobs last long rupture is always good and it is not like you are wasting a lot of time anyway
zenith oriole
Would someone take a look at my log? And see what im doing wrong?
austere ridge
thoughts?
pliant topaz
its a slightly worse version of current db
plays worse, is also weaker than the tandard builds
also deathstalker. so turbo eww
austere ridge
what is standard build atm?
pliant topaz
ah yeah pvp is different for sure
idle aurora
Also @alpine wraith I tried macroing sod into shadow like you said wasn’t super smart but could be done. And I actually hated it. Seems better to manually keep it up, but you were right the timer thing on flag being under 2 and pooling went hard to figure out.
When I macroed it in I ended up accidentally blowing two symbols sometimes 😦
alpine wraith
yea only macro i have is the sec tech + cb one and i also have a normal sec tech
idle aurora
It’s actually jarring to think when to manually use vs not use
Vs always manually using
umbral apex
Alchemy trinket gamba is so insane. I had it proc back to back on opener and was pure blasting and the next SB cycle it didn’t proc until SB ended 😂
livid olive
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
What the hell is up with bloodmallet insane trinket sims :0
There are no talents in the profile and he’s not updated it from simc apl
Use !fuu
alpine wraith
all the pulls where it procced we wiped
idle aurora
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
idle aurora
Ohhh yeah ok I see name on it now lol I just saw follow-up of alchemy trinket lol
lilac stag
Wait do I want to go alchemy and craft that crazy trinket lol
Basically transmitter + whatever
Knife from delves really good
def worth if you can pull a heroic one in vault.
alpine wraith
alchemy stone can be really funny tho
pulsar mauve
is there a way on details or WL to see damage to bosses on court ?
small juniper
np
alpine wraith
np
remote shuttle
myth ulgrax, 1st kill with chill guild raid grp 🙂 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7B4zg6qXNcKGRLfC#fight=last&type=damage-done
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2301145238
lilac stag
myth ulgrax, 1st kill with chill guild raid grp 🙂 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/...
Grats on the kill. Self promoting kinda frowned upon
remote shuttle
Grats on the kill. Self promoting kinda frowned upon
ty buds XD
fair stump
myth ulgrax, 1st kill with chill guild raid grp 🙂 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/...
Am I seeing an almost 12m sectec?
wind canopy
Eleem posted a 16 mil a week or two ago
glossy turtle
do you just wanna keep shadow dance on a cd at all times? so meaning first running shadowdance´+symbols then Shadowdance at last shadowdance+symbols, kinda that pattern
for st raid 🙂
hazy breach
You never want to dance without symbols
And you want to make sure you always can use 2 symbols and 2 dances during flag+blades
glossy turtle
So I just wanna burn em all?
hazy breach
Which means you need roughly ~35-40s left on your second dance charge whenever you press flag
glossy turtle
And you want to make sure you always can use 2 symbols and 2 dances during flag+...
is there a good video guide I can watch perhaps. and might I just be accidentally sending symbols on cd, or is that a feature?
Might have some weird macro that I dont know about
light imp
is there a guide to which class buffs are best for sub rogue in M+?
hazy breach
Not sure if its implemented
But should be better
Based on my napkin math
Maghar/orc/dark iron
All fine
None of them are 90/180s cd though which is kinda cringe
But you'd still hold em
lucid jackal
Yeah
I am just over being a gnome
esp with this tomb nerf
Also whats the best crafted slot do u think
I have crafted cape atm
and just real bracers
But theres like 0 bracers
hazy breach
Its kinda fine wherever tbh
half comet
hazy breach
The differences are just so small
half comet
👀
hazy breach
But ye bracers+cloak prob
lucid jackal
Oh you ditch weapon?
hazy breach
Ye but it just doesnt really matter
lucid jackal
yeah lol
rustic geyser
just go undead for god tier mog
hazy breach
and dog tier dps
rustic geyser
I mean it's not like it REALLY makes a difference
lucid jackal
What triggers the replicating shadows refund to happen
Is there any way to play around it effectively
hazy breach
What triggers the replicating shadows refund to happen
Getting 7 sht stacks
lucid jackal
IT feels ike it only happens sometimes though
hazy breach
Ye
Idk sometimes it doesnt refund at the start of your second dance either way
Even without replicating
Its just wonky
rustic geyser
working as intended™
pliant topaz
Is there any way to play around it effectively
its 2 bugs combining together.
theres a stealth/dance bug baseline that makes it so that shadowcraft doesnt refund at all
and then theres the RS bug itself
so yeah sometimes u get one, sometime the other
lucid jackal
Is it munching CP when it delay refunds
tribal blade
i think so, seems like it does
tribal blade
sometimes i see my refunds munch CPs
but not 100% sure
thing is shadowcraft gives you so many resources during symbols
so it's still mandatory even with all the bugs n shit
delicate cave
Scroll of Momentum is simming higher for me than Shadow-Binding Ritual Knife, is that just sim bait?
tribal blade
Scroll of Momentum is simming higher for me than Shadow-Binding Ritual Knife, is...
i've never simmed the 2 against each other, but i have a hard time believing it's better than knife
oh they're actually very close to each other in ST, interesting
knife is marginally better for me, like ~2k dps
rustic geyser
scroll does have some level of pay attention and input involved mind
I mean it's just "hit sprint" but like
it's still a thing you have to do
tribal blade
oh yeah then i wouldn't use it
strange chasm
So is void
tribal blade
if you need to do additional bullshit to make it good
knife is just better in every way
rustic geyser
sin is the easiest
swift crest
its becoming the boringest tbh
outlaw to fast pace for my vibes i think
i will play some sub in raid tnight
tribal blade
i would enjoy sin a lot more if i didn't have to play deathstalker
left ledge
Is it even a DPS increase then if its munching CP
Even if it wasn’t a dps loss
I think the mental damage
Isn’t worth it
If only we had another talent to pick
Lmao
rustic geyser
you can play fatebound sin
it's very good
unless you're talking like dungeons and shit
but on the st bosses FB is fine
tribal blade
yeah i mostly play sin in keys
i'm not gonna play sin in raid anymore since don't need to anymore
rustic geyser
it's just the fact taht we have to apply and deal with the mark in the way that we do
it feels so much more fluid on sub
but then on sub we have tricks
hazy breach
Is it even a DPS increase then if its munching CP
On ST maybe not worth
But on aoe its definitely worth it regardless
lucid jackal
yeh assumed so for aoe
half comet
Theres a bunch of classes you can step on
quick question as well did u feint on liquefy or the pops
hazy breach
Whenever you feel unsafe
idle aurora
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
idle aurora
Well I got a detachable fang from vault was hoping for dagger thing meh
hazy breach
!update
wicked joltBOT
Updated.
hazy breach
!guides
barren wadi
Does it matter if I use 2 daggers or 1 dagger 1 mace?
hazy breach
Yes
You effectively need 2 daggers
Otherwise you lose out on ~8% of your energy and combo points.
!oh
wicked joltBOT
Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.
barren wadi
Cool thanks
left ledge
gratz! youre free
its so lame man lmao
this prob the least fun ive ever had in a tier
left ledge
oh i never couped into blades but
we had delayed blades on our prog
:)
the visual bugged out
and you wouldnt know when it was going off
silent osprey
is there a dagger durability bug?
i seem to be flying through my daggers durability
barren wadi
i really hate the transmitter gameplay is it really that substantial of an increase over void+queen's
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
steel sierra
swift tinsel
Is there a general benchmark for how many charges of SoD/Dance you should have when flag cd is ~30sec?
brain is somewhat krangled atm
lucid jackal
U need like 1.5 dances to do your cooldowns
So u stop using CDS at 30 seocnds until flag/blades
swift tinsel
Ah, thanks. That's kinda what I was thinking but wasn't sure if it was mathed out
azure mauve
short radish
how?
edgy zenith
noticed the simulationcraft APL is using SB before sectech, also it's not doing the CB on second sectech thing
is this normally (especially the SB thing) or just new APL not implemented?
quick swan
So practicing the sub opener and idk why but on my first vanish it doesnt actually put me into stealth so I cant do another shadowtrike lol
cant figure out why
spark tusk
yeah it's a bit buggy especially in town
it happens a bunch on target dummies
I'll vanish in dornogal and it'll just immediately break before I can strike
heady quartz
Is downtime normal for sub in keys ? Like I would have periods where theres nothing I can do except backstab
spark tusk
!design yeah, sub has high highs and low lows
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
spark tusk
Yeah seems dorno training dummies are laggy af
dorno been real bad since 11.0.5, bit better in the last week but still bad
quick swan
Cheers for confirming that Im not going mad
Was convinced I had some weird macro somewhere lol
pliant topaz
dorno been real bad since 11.0.5, bit better in the last week but still bad
last weekend i could dc the server with sin on dornogal dummies.
shrimply go to the 5 ones, get spatter and singular focus and deathmark and kb running
heady quartz
Thanks for the explanation, having alot of fun on this spec lol, crazy dmg in dance and sigils window
pliant topaz
and server would lag so hard people would dc
spark tusk
native zodiac
So practicing the sub opener and idk why but on my first vanish it doesnt actual...
Just need to know when it happens and backstab instead, you will still get full cps
Its annoying but you will get used to it
quick swan
Yeah thats not what I was saying, thanks though ahah
vale pine
last weekend i could dc the server with sin on dornogal dummies. <:Surebud:1083...
thats what you get from playing assassination
pliant topaz
i was just testing someting :p
vale pine
wind canopy
i was just testing someting :p
Uh huh
thorny kestrel
on st, why do we have to use shadowblades AFTER sec tech. also is it big dps loss if we don't use it after
autumn flame
Holy moly they really gutted ansurek
cloud rover
I mean if you think about it
its only 2-3 months left
till next raid
and most guild will prolly kill it mid december
alpine wraith
on st, why do we have to use shadowblades AFTER sec tech. also is it big dps lo...
because of premed
to not waste cp
also sec tech does not work with blades too
jade canopy
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
thorny kestrel
because of premed
oh right, thanks. yeah it seems minor but makes sense to just switch it there
autumn flame
Dunno ansurek is probably easier than silken now
cloud rover
Dunno ansurek is probably easier than silken now<:KEKL:715356556811829248>
I mean cant really nerf silken
except maybe dmg intake?
autumn flame
They can make dispells easier
tribal blade
35 energy storm when
RS bug fix when
deepening buff when
any more to add to the list?
vale pine
bugfixes for coup
willow fulcrum
i knoww you use mandate during symbols
but do u guys use it
toward the end?
when you wont fit another finisher or something
or send at start
tribal blade
bugfixes for coup
bugfixes for coup when
vale pine
or send at start
outside of cooldowns
vale pine
outside of dance
willow fulcrum
ok bet
fierce minnow
2nd key with new rework <a:Thinkge:978090588920508456>
sub is pretty good and fun
but getting invited to keys while not specced into assassination is kinda harder
even at 637 ilvl 😄
rugged condor
whats the rule for using coup? inside dance or just with fazed?
thorny kestrel
with treacherous transmitter, do you use it early way before your sec tech / pot, so you could do the jumpy / collect / stand thingy and get the buff for sec tech hit
alpine wraith
yes
thorny kestrel
k ty
so for opener, it would be strike, flag, evis, van, strike, rupture, Treacherous transmitter, dance/symbol/pot macro, strike, cb-sec tech macro, shadowblades, etc?
bitter dagger
A lot of people, myself included, have macrod transmitter to flag
thorny kestrel
makes sense. thanks!
steel zinc
Dunno ansurek is probably easier than silken now<:KEKL:715356556811829248>
Most likely
hoary bloom
!guides
tepid trellis
how many maidens tho?
round latch
how many maidens tho?
vale pine
haha
tulip gorge
sub is so much fun, wish it had more aoe damage
and 45 energy shuriken storm is a bit criminal
vale pine
agree with both
tulip gorge
is deathstalker supposed to have better aoe than trickster?
vale pine
it technically has
but you need to multidot
and stuff needs to survive for quite a while
lilac stag
Just ignore deathstalker. Your sub life gets better.
bronze turret
real
steel zinc
Just ignore deathstalker. Your sub life gets better.
This trickster is also good on pure st
Not having to deal with parry is really nice qol and I think a sim can't show
lilac stag
if you have attentive melee in raid, they notice it.
jade canopy
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
native zodiac
Not having to deal with parry is really nice qol and I think a sim can't show
This so much man, not getting parry popups saves my mental
Remember my kingsbane getting parried a few times bc boss turned as i pressed it 
grim cosmos
is skardyn still good on sub rogue? Wanna try some dungeons out as sub but got full bised out assa 😛
And if so, do i bind it to some of my cooldowns or whats the best move to do here?
alpine wraith
skardyn is not as good as transmitter but it is not bad
just use it with flag
or well after sec tech
grim cosmos
Ah alright, noice
lilac stag
And if so, do i bind it to some of my cooldowns or whats the best move to do her...
Individual binds except for sectech cb
trinket with flag
grim cosmos
Ty lads
hazy breach
Yes
lilac stag
It is what it is. If you’re only testing the spec out it’s fine. Everything outside of transmitter you could say is bad.
jaunty heath
Deathstalker or Trickster?
steel zinc
Deathstalker or Trickster?
Trickster imo alle content
jaunty heath
Alright cool
I’ve played Assa to 80. I wanna switch to Sub and try that out
Any suggestions?
steel zinc
Any suggestions?
Wdym by that? Talent choices? We are pretty locked into what we play
jaunty heath
Hmm. So I should talent into the open world build right now while doing new content. Then switch to raid or mythic build when I do those.
I’m still trying to gear im at a 561 as a level 80.
Siren isles will be coming out shortly
wild hornet
If i have a ready sectec and no sdances ready, should I pop vanish into sectec?
lilac stag
Hmm. So I should talent into the open world build right now while doing new cont...
I just sit in raid build for just about everything. There’s really not a lot to mess with.
jaunty heath
That’s what I like to hear
lilac stag
If i have a ready sectec and no sdances ready, should I pop vanish into sectec?
Why are you vanishing for sectech?
Vanish Strike for full CP.
You should not have dry sectechs. You done made a mistake someplace else.
jaunty heath
Gonna have to study the priority.
But I think I’ll like the spec fantasy more than adds
Assa*
lapis junco
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Bugs - Subtlety Rogue
haughty mural
@alpine wraith did you solve it before or after flag cast ?
hazy breach
Ideally you solve it as you sectech
alpine wraith
yea as i sec tech
the most annoying one is the ball
but you get used to it
i do show how to do the 45º trick on the showcase i have
that way the ball comes to you and the platform is not that far from boss
or well it is more like 60 instead of 45 but you get the memo
wicked joltBOT
The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png
thick field
how much of a gain is it really to use vanish into flag/symbols bursts? would i be losing much if i save that for the utility/defensive and just flag->rupture->cds?
haughty mural
need to memorize a bit to kinda "change my script"
just got it yesterday for the first time
hazy breach
how much of a gain is it really to use vanish into flag/symbols bursts? would i ...
Its only really during the opener
lilac stag
how much of a gain is it really to use vanish into flag/symbols bursts? would i ...
However many back stabs it takes for rupture. It’s just the opener.
hazy breach
But in keys for example you would already have slice and dice up from previous pulls
So then it doesnt matter much
thick field
oh true the evisc for slice and dice is why its good in opener
okay makes sense, thank you guys
hazy breach
Its still extra cp (from premed) during the rest of your rotation so its still worth to press if you can
But the difference isnt big outside the opener
And on queen for example i was backstabbing since i need to save vanish for the roots, its not horrid, its just not great
lilac stag
Still need to save it with nerfs?
thick field
okay yeah that makes sense then
I'm still learning the ins and outs of every button press and the effect it has. like i didnt think of premed or snd from evis
hazy breach
Still need to save it with nerfs?
The timings are still the same im afraid
Might be able to have it be bursted down on the first one but you'd still need to hold vanish
lilac stag
Bummer
hazy breach
Since its ~17s, ~50s and ~95s or something like that
Is when you get rooted
So we can only break 2 with vanish+cloak either way
round latch
Why is Kush playing sin in rashanan 
hazy breach
Execute strong
wild hornet
Why are you vanishing for sectech?
Well is using sectec in sd solely for the sstike CP?
rapid warren
Well is using sectec in sd solely for the sstike CP?
sd increases damage
wild hornet
Yeah that was my initial idea for vanishing for sectec
plush roost
Vanish doesn't apply shadow dance damage bonuses
verbal slate
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lunar bluff
Why is Kush playing sin in rashanan <:monkascheme:585734083590750219>
sin destroys the boss on that fight
round latch
sin destroys the boss on that fight
lilac stag
Well is using sectec in sd solely for the sstike CP?
SD increases dmg. Vanish only increases / benefits Shadow Strike.
jaunty heath
So what when it comes to organizing my bars would I put basically the same priorities on both my stealth bar and my out of stealth bar?
Cuz all I really need in stealth is shadow strike right?
jaunty heath
Gotcha
swift tinsel
Besides that, they should be pretty close to mirrored
lilac stag
shroud someplace as well
Some addons will allow you disable the stealth bar which some rogues will do as well
swift tinsel
I think my shroud is F2 or F3 lol
lucid lily
I just have my cheap shot in the same place as kidney shot on my stealth bar. Sap and distract are on modifiers off of the main bar
wild hornet
Some addons will allow you disable the stealth bar which some rogues will do as ...
I just made my hotbars identical
Kek
My shroud is on 0
swift tinsel
Shift-5 is always my stun so that's where I've got kidney
wild hornet
Shift-5 is always my stun so that's where I've got kidney
By stun u mean cs or kidney
swift tinsel
By stun u mean cs or kidney
Kidney, HoJ, dk pet stun
any non-stance conditional stun
wild hornet
Damn
swift tinsel
I keep Dance on 3 though and I don't remember why
swift tinsel
I try to keep my binds mostly homogenized between classes. Like F is non-cd or short cd AoE ability/finisher like BP or Divine Storm, Q is main CD, E is kick
1 main builder, 2 main spender
I don't W move hardly at all so its easy
wild hornet
I try to keep my binds mostly homogenized between classes. Like F is non-cd or s...
Yeah thats good if u play multiple classes
The only thing i keep the same is human racial on shift 9 and kick on mouse4
Everything else i just throw randomly where i deem fit
swift tinsel
I'm slimming down this xpac though, only playing one main and one alt
wild hornet
Hence i have to throw my hands all around to do a rotation
swift tinsel
Was going to start as rogue main in tww but I wasn't loving the state of sub and I don't love sin, and we were really short on ranged and didn't have a mage so I ran with that in prog
swift tinsel
It's been one of my favorite specs since probably cata when I first started playing it
wild hornet
Wanted to play something else besides ret (dont kill me just yet)
swift tinsel
Lol paladin was my first class ever so I get it
wild hornet
I still never touched more than a class trial on half of the characters
swift tinsel
I played all of them super casually as an LFR hero until SL when I got into a guild and actually got into heroic/some mythic raiding and m+
wild hornet
I still wanna show you how atrocious my general hotbars are
Unfortunately the subway isnt subwaying
swift tinsel
I used to play on a 2007 Macbook using 1-5 and J,K,L,; without a mouse, it was truly cursed gaming
spark tusk
I used to play on a 2007 macbook too
doing illidan progression in my friend's basement, the whole god damn laptop was a heatsink and it overheated constantly so in between pulls I would open the fridge we had down there and place the laptop in there between pulls
Probably not the best idea but I was an idiot teenager