That works for a hunter too for different reasons 😆
#subtlety
wraith granite
I imagine them having 1 button on their keyboard, but the number 1 has faded, and now they have a conundrum what to press
keen dome
lilac stag
I’m ok with this. Assa gonna get nerfed at some point
keen dome
11.1 is the year of Sub
lilac stag
Nice. I want to test the new blink. It sounds like a nice improvement.
sly shore
I’m ok with this. Assa gonna get nerfed at some point
assa straight up doubles the damage in aoe
on average sized pulls
but its stupidly far behind on bosses
vestal escarp
(they have strong aoe talents)
lilac stag
I can’t imagine splatter staying as is, but who knows
tame stratus
spatter ends up lile psychic link
vestal escarp
It already got nerfed
lilac stag
m+ tuning always sus
tame stratus
every 2 Weeks it goes up and down 5%
sly shore
considering sub basically loses 0 dps to go "aoe"
lilac stag
it’s not exactly a nerf when you’re increasing damage on other knobs
vestal escarp
The spatter argument is always a bit sketchy, it's like saying blade flurry is too strong for ol
sly shore
spatter is too strong
lilac stag
bosses still seem to be more of a cock block than trash but idk. Just from watching higher keys
sly shore
for a 1 point talent that is basically free
it's doing more than capstone put together
lmao
vestal escarp
Spatter too strong cause enve too strong
lilac stag
Splatter + unlimited energy is a problem. ol had same issue when they could ignore resources.
sly shore
spatter is just tuned too high
it's the simplest nerf without nuking their ST
same as crimson tempest
shit fucking blasts
vestal escarp
Which already happened
sly shore
yeah, and it is still problematic
I think other classes should be brought up though
not assa brought down
vestal escarp
Yep
lilac stag
they took a soft nerf to it (good for not hammering it). It’s still a significant outlier
vestal escarp
Assa to do that aoe loses a ton of st
lilac stag
looks at ghuun 2.0. Kekw
shell lance
Splatter + unlimited energy is a problem. ol had same issue when they could igno...
Where is this spell?
vestal escarp
Anyway if they nuke assa we're back to playing ol for keys so I'd rather defend it than freeze
Like DF s3
Very fun
lilac stag
yep
tepid trellis
sub be goated frfr
lilac stag
he enjoys outlaw so more power to him
worthy escarp
Queens mandate + transmitter our bis for st right ? Then void reaper - transmitter for aoe ? Or am I wrong
tribal blade
Queens mandate + transmitter our bis for st right ? Then void reaper - transmitt...
i dunno about contract, it does no damage every time i use it
maybe there's something weird about it, but it sims quite well but i'll check the damage after and it's really low
worthy escarp
Hmm fair, because I sim 10k higher but I feel stronger with queens mandate
What trinkets do you use ?
keen dome
It did about 10m damage for me on Kyveza last night. Contract,t hat is
And 13m on Ovinax.
sly shore
it has agi
tribal blade
it has agi
that's a very good point, i was just about to say
the damage is probably lower because it's agi stick
sly shore
most trinkets seem to have secondary stats + damage on use or agi this tier
keen dome
Ye
keen dome
If I had it, I'd probably run transmitter + contract, or transmitter + queens. But i've yet to get either so I just run skardyn + contract.
worthy escarp
Rly hard to decide since I got all 3 of them
keen dome
Oh yeah, that's a nice trinket too
worthy escarp
Had some luck on my side
Had to hard swap back to rogue mid season because guildys left, so I am not 100% comfortable with what’s best atm and shit. Ty lads
timid isle
He's playing both
meow
lilac stag
round latch
<a:Meow:963457817451307029>
irrelevant but eating snitzel+alfredo pasta with mushrooms
keen dome
That looks tasty
gritty knot
This picture ist nun Eigentum der Bundesrepublik Deutschland
hardy falcon
!wa
sour chasm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
static juniper
is it a good idea to macro SoB into shadowdance?
tepid trellis
nope
lilac stag
watch speed curse himself out for hitting sod and then his macro on the queen kill
fallow nimbus
For me the shadow dagger at 619 sims better than 626 queen 
tulip gorge
It’s weird how sub has so many buttons off the gcd 
lucid lily
For me the shadow dagger at 619 sims better than 626 queen <:monkahmm:5857340845...
Same and I find it hard to trust that
lilac stag
knife still good. Mastery good.
hazy breach
And queen doesnt have agi passively so all of your bursts without it are gonna be weaker
lucid lily
Makes sense, I just feel bad seeing mandate chilling in my bag 😅
gilded ferry
time to ask the real questions
which one of the 3 options of transmitter you guys prefer
i hate the jumping one
lucid lily
Jumping is for sure the worst one
hardy tusk
lucid lily
Fucks up the whole flow of the opener
tribal blade
all 3 are bad for different reasons
at least the jumping one if you have it you can activate it no matter what
you won't lose it
lucid lily
Orb is the best though
tribal blade
i dunno about that
you have to hit it directly, and under players and targets and mechanics it can be really hard to see
plus it just wanders away sometimes
climbs up stuff
lucid lily
Idk I never have a hard time seeing it and snagging it quickly
It’s really just personal preference. I won’t miss any of it when it’s gone, that’s for sure
tribal blade
yup this trinket is aids, i really don't like using it
but what can we do, it's just that good for sub 😉
shell lance
For ui elvui or tukui?
tribal blade
never used complete ui replacements, seems like a hassle
lilac stag
yup this trinket is aids, i really don't like using it
Place it better.
hazy breach
I dislike the circle the most
tribal blade
Place it better.
i want to press trinket and not think 😦
the issue with the circle is if it spawns in a bad area, it's there for good
lilac stag
Back to assa you go
tribal blade
Back to assa you go
nah i'm actually timing push keys as sub 😉
lilac stag
Legit takes a moment to turn your facing directing
tribal blade
timed 13 CoT today as sub
lucid lily
You can pre-position to place the orb/platform not in stuff
lilac stag
instead of meatballing it
tribal blade
but sometimes things are extremely hectic
lilac stag
tribal blade
like the pulls before last boss of mists
tribal blade
btw i think i prefer doing some keys as sub, just feels way better
feel tankier
feels less stressful
more boss dam
tribal blade
yeah i like it
hazy breach
Boss damage difference is insane
lilac stag
Plus the absorb
hazy breach
The loss of prio damage can def be felt though
tribal blade
maybe i'm doing something wrong (probably am) on sin
lilac stag
Assa is all details. Sub is all kill the fucking boss
tribal blade
but no matter what i do i can't get good numbers on pure ST
lilac stag
I wish I enjoyed keys more
hazy breach
Like in nw assa demolishes necromancers because funnel
tribal blade
Like in nw assa demolishes necromancers because funnel
yeah i feel really strong against those mobs as sin
but then you get to 3rd boss and it feels so bad
tribal blade
yeah last boss pretty bad too
hazy breach
Gotta hold DN for shield, gotta hold DN for exile
Never do any damage outside of the buff from coming up
tribal blade
they really need to do something about losing your mark
it shouldn't be this much micro managing around it
hazy breach
Apparently augs wont get sent down anymore
tribal blade
that's fucking insane
hazy breach
Which is honestly worse
hazy breach
Ye and then we wiped
tribal blade
the add also takes a bit to die
hazy breach
Because aug+tank+healer couldnt break shield
tribal blade
i had to use kingsbane on it 1 time
hazy breach
No 14 for me
tribal blade
i finally got it timed on 13 today
hazy breach
Probably just have him swap deva before last boss honestly
tribal blade
i was doing pretty big aoe dam
haha everyone has to zone out to swap
rogue zones out to swap to sub
aug zones out to swap to dev
tribal blade
you zone out before the 2 mobs upstairs come out right
at least i saw casual zone out then
tribal blade
i saw him do it in a 15 or something i think
he was sin for the first half, then hearthed to an inn in bastion
swapped to sub and flew back
hazy breach
Ill just portal out
tribal blade
oh true portal
his might have been on cd from doing it earlier
how bad is it playing sub for the first half of NW
less prio, no iron wire and target capped
hazy breach
Not that bad tbh with standard pulls
tribal blade
well not target capped if you BP
lilac stag
Didn’t feel bad on 10
hazy breach
But my group typically pulls gatekeepers instead of bigger first pull
tribal blade
the 1st pull is hell on earth for the tank
hazy breach
Specifically because ill destroy it as assa
tribal blade
yeah all the tanks i've played with want to pull gatekeepers now
so the pull is slightly smaller and a bit easier to manage
hazy breach
It usually dies before its second cast
hazy breach
Ye and sub wont nuke it as hard, but probably still hard enough
tribal blade
but iron wire is just fucking so good too
i've started playing w/o a trace
so 2 vanish charge sin
it feels really good
tribal blade
hehe
hazy breach
Its fine now
lilac stag
I haven’t touched assa since .5
tribal blade
so you just take out that point and put it in 2 vanish charge
hazy breach
Before when subterfuge was useless it was really bad
tribal blade
subterfuge with MA is pretty nice
hazy breach
Now its mostly preference
lilac stag
Makes sense
tribal blade
also you can get pulled out of stealth before a pull
and still apply your mark
which is so good
hazy breach
First boss cot without subterfuge 
tribal blade
haha i guess if everyone is close enough
to the boss on pull
he doesn't do the suck in
or it doesn't do damage i think
1 of those
a group i was in tried to do it but someone was too far out and we still got sucked in and damaged
tribal blade
i have no idea, i have yet to see it
hazy breach
Havent wiped to it and tried to continue abyway so ive always had DN up anyway
tribal blade
not sure from that because he attacks immediately on pull
but i think they don't take damage
oh ok he says it before "get close so the drag doesn't do damage' so yeah i guess it does still pull you out
hazy breach
<@212854714197344256> https://youtu.be/6a5Pc00xbow?si=0Ku__5I-xiBaxidn&t=224
Int dagger looking aaah pov
vale pine
haha, the good old int dagger craft
sly shore
First boss cot without subterfuge <:despairge:975807482490421329>
stand close to boss before it's pulled
hazy breach
The pug i did yesterday the tank leaped and changed when we were very far away
sly shore
then basically get fucked I guess
hazy breach
And we managed to take two ticks before getting into the circle
So 3 people died
And then we left
💀
tribal blade
Int dagger looking aaah pov
the true gamer god cares not
sly shore
the true gamer god cares not
leaden prairie
you zone out before the 2 mobs upstairs come out right
You have to press insta btw
The portal cast time is just short enough
If the 2 dudes spawns you get global combat
tribal blade
If the 2 dudes spawns you get global combat
oh shit i didnt know that, good to know
short radish
@tribal blade thoughts on value of sitting afk to proc TFD before a pull
vale pine
sitting afk is worse
short radish
damn
okay
im still gonna do it though if i fuck up and don't have 2 dances for flag
tribal blade
yeah fuu's probably right, the afk time you spend could be worth a few globals of rupture spreading
tribal blade
maybe if you're only sitting afk for like a second yeah
tribal blade
i haven't been tracking it because i don't want to get tilted if i don't manage to proc it
short radish
where im like... JUST A FEW MORE SECONDS PLEASE
tribal blade
so now it's a nice "hey, i have a TFD dance"
lilac stag
yeah fuu's probably right, the afk time you spend could be worth a few globals o...
depends how quickly shit gonna die imo
cedar rock
how is sub feeling in keys after 11.0.5? alot better?
lilac stag
mmhm
twilit phoenix
might be a bit stupid, but how are people timing transmitter in burst phases
pressing it after flag?
and collecting before first sec tech?
vivid cobalt
they should really make TFD proc as soon as you drop combat
no reason for it not to work that way
vale pine
agree
vivid cobalt
its just grief rn
also is it just me or would adding a 3rd charge of dance just fix the spec
cedar rock
i have a auestion about that bp rule. So if flawless form is up wo dont black powder at all?
vale pine
i have a auestion about that bp rule. So if flawless form is up wo dont black po...
thats correct
you technically can bp again on very large pulls
but you rarely pull like 13 mobs
vale pine
12+ ye
cedar rock
so basically were never using bp lol
cause flawless is pretty much up
all the time?
coarse nexus
yeah
vale pine
yes
vivid cobalt
i only use it when ive fucked up cooldowns and we pull a pack with no dance and i cant et fazed to proc
vale pine
and suffer by using BP on 2+
cedar rock
whats the diff between tick and death in keys?
trick*
like dmg wise. Is it griefing to play death?
vivid cobalt
deathstalker feels like ass
vale pine
the diffrence is
trickster performs noticable better in cleave and low target
trickster offers better burst
and has lower trade offs between single target and aoe
deathstalker has technically better funnel
and stronger sustained aoe
cedar rock
oh fr huh
twilit phoenix
https://tenor.com/view/more-dots-most-moredots-moardots-gif-5729348
new black powder animation?
vivid cobalt
i feel like its important to note that u pmuch never see that sustained aoe use case in keys tho unless ur overall dps is really low and u over pull
cedar rock
i like deathstalker as a theme ngl but i only play 11/12 keys max anyways. So ill stic with trick. Playing around coup is fun too
also another question are we playing anything different with the rotten talent?
like do we always wanna save sec tech for it after a symbols?
vale pine
i feel like its important to note that u pmuch never see that sustained aoe use ...
yes, its kinda always better to just play trickster
vivid cobalt
also another question are we playing anything different with the rotten talent?
rotten only buffs shadowstrike dmg
round latch
^ so you enjoy spreading your ruptures
covert pine
how to improve when we fall into the no energy part? I can backstab once every 6-7 sec 💀
sly shore
that's normal
hardy falcon
Yo guys, slowly picking up Sub again. I've played it a bit both in raid and in m+, I have a few questions.
For raid I understand the fact that everything revolves around SecTec (and obviously Flag and SB).
Is that also true fro M+ ? Speaking mainly about Symbols and Shadow Dance use. Are we more "generous" in M+ or do we follow the exact same rules ?
Also in M+, are we suppose to use often Black Powder ? Just got of Bora 10 and I didn't use the spell a lot at all
sly shore
!energy
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
sly shore
Yo guys, slowly picking up Sub again. I've played it a bit both in raid and in m...
black powder 12+ targets, rules are same for aoe as st
covert pine
mm aight so I'd wait full energy at this point
hardy falcon
black powder 12+ targets, rules are same for aoe as st
ok, make sense I didn't use it then, we went slow and steady
muted agate
dark ranger rogue
strange chasm
Is both sub and sin fine for queen?
vale pine
yes both is fine
young path
Is deathstalker still bugged? I’d like to give it a go tonight but only if the marks (or whatever tf was wrong with it) was fixed
Hard enough getting keys done as sub and really don’t want to embarrass myself lol
(Or the spec)
vale pine
deathstalkers mark is still buggy but its not that dramatic of a impact
just means both hero talents perform about equal
twilit phoenix
so we always want our 2nd finisher in dance to be sec tech?
vale pine
you basically want to use it first during big cooldowns
to get it back for the 2nd dance you use back to back
but outside of that, yes
(big cooldowns = flagellation + shadow blades)
honest saddle
can we a get a sub rogue protest until coup doesnt grip us in
I will lead the charge
no pun intended
thick field
you basically want to use it first during big cooldowns
@fuu wait only during big cds? why not the other dance outside of big cds for our tier set?
vale pine
its fine as first, but 2nd too
you often use symbols before secret is ready to then dance-finish-strike-secret
honest saddle
mainly because you dont go back to back shadow dances outside of big cooldowns, so there is no benefit to going first for more cdr
thick field
but there is the 4 set benefit of going first
topaz raptor
i have died way more than i expected i would have
from coup
i thought it wasn't gonna be that bad but it really is that bad
honest saddle
but there is the 4 set benefit of going first
thats why it doesnt matter
you lose macabre for 4pc
its pretty much the same
thick field
ah okay so macabre stack vs 4 set tradeoff is pretty even is what we're saying, so first or second is fine
dumb question then why do we want it first for big cds but its okay eithe rway outside of that?
thin lion
For big cd's u want so send sectech first so that you have it ready for the Second SD
When I remember IT correctly😄
pliant topaz
because otherwise it wont be up in time for the 2nd dance during cds
^ thats for deathstalker
thick field
oh wait maybe thats why im confused, i've only been playing trickster and it feels like its nowhere near a tight window for getting a second sectech in
pliant topaz
for trickster its first to stack flawless forms faster
thick field
ohh okay
pliant topaz
and push up coup
thick field
okay i gotcha
thin lion
Do we hold CB for the Second sectech because of flag and flawless stacks?
wind canopy
I think there’s a slight optimization for that. Eleem mentioned something about it
honest saddle
I am sure it's more damage, but in order to do that you would have to manually do CB always
and that seems like a bad idea
one fuck up ever in the fight and you wasted everything
or have a special keybind for non CB
I guess you could do that 1x, then go macro the rest
spark tusk
Apparently it's very tight and maeks you shift your sectec slightly
I don't know if it's worth the brainpower
if if you're big brain and can always remember it
probably
I'm not going to, I'm just keeping mine macroed
honest saddle
I macrod dance and sod all last expansion
not optimal
I have #1 parse in world
sometimes
it's better to play the simple way
than try to min max for .1%
but if you can do it
go for it
sand patio
I macrod dance and sod all last expansion
wait, not everyone use this macro?
honest saddle
nope, it ended up clipping sod by like 1-2 seconds
and people did it manually
talking about 15% damage on 1 global every like 1 minute.
not worth the squeeze imo
sand patio
I see
wind canopy
honest saddle
.5% is kinda a lot...
pliant topaz
Do we hold CB for the Second sectech because of flag and flawless stacks?
for 0.5% yea
pliant topaz
Apparently it's very tight and maeks you shift your sectec slightly
thats only if you want to get an extra CB cast every 1.5 minutes. which could be okay
but u can litearlly ignore cb and only ever cast it during flag 2nd sectech and thats 0.5%
so u would lose 1 cast every 1.5 minutes but its easier.
pliant topaz
also cb is bugged and doesnt work with evis anyways, and has to be sent on cd, so not likely to use it on sectech
pliant topaz
but requires an extra bind
shrimply bind it to backstab ngl
or macro idk
actually never mind LMFAO
spark tusk
I mean I wouldn't make a bind for cb
I'd just make 2 sectec binds
one with one without
pliant topaz
yea
jaunty heath
What does CB stand for
hazy breach
Cold blood
merry agate
wind canopy
wind canopy
so u would lose 1 cast every 1.5 minutes but its easier.
That was Hacha's question in tc-sub, wasn't it?
sonic cedar
Fellow subs, is there a guide for sub rogue thats updated? Cause im kinda lost and its been 2 expansions since i played it
pliant topaz
That was Hacha's question in tc-sub, wasn't it?
no idea
pliant topaz
Fellow subs, is there a guide for sub rogue thats updated? Cause im kinda lost a...
!guides
wind canopy
Yeah, was trying to see if I could get CB ST in between every Flag/SB and that seemed way too difficult despite the timing of CB and it able to be up in between 😐
sonic depot
doesnt ticks macros work? like having a specific player on it. idk why mine isnt working rn
hazy breach
It should, might need to specify their server as well if theyre not from your realm
pliant topaz
It should, might need to specify their server as well if theyre not from your re...
hi where are 11.0.7 sims? 
hazy breach
pliant topaz
voidelf stonks soon?
wind canopy
11.0.7 sims? 
strange chasm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vivid cobalt
Wait was there news or something
lilac stag
vestal escarp
Just big ring coming back
lilac stag
VE stonks 📈
twilit phoenix
we're not using cold blood outside of our 1.5 min burst, right?
lilac stag
Why are you holding a 45 second cd for 90 seconds?
wind canopy
Why are you holding a 45 second cd for 90 seconds?
It’s the CB usage on second ST discussion in burst windows that was brought up again
lilac stag
It’s the CB usage on second ST discussion in burst windows that was brought up a...
sure but you can still toss a random CB in on whatever on CD
unless we've got some magical time dilation
wind canopy
Yeah but it’s very tight
wind canopy
That’s what you’d assume yes, but could be hit later than 45 because ST won’t be up by then
lilac stag
wut?
twilit phoenix
ya that's what I'm running into
lilac stag
just spend the 45 on anything instead of holding it
if youre that concerned about the flag CB
wind canopy
Well, yeah, but CB is bugged with evis apparently so… sure, can hit anything but that
twilit phoenix
CB rup 
idle aurora
Jesus I am not sure how the hell you play sub. Having 5 cooldowns within cooldowns is making my brain effing explode
Do I just stand at a dummy for like 4 hours or does hekili help learning initial rotation
I may have chosen a spec too stronk for my smooth brain :/
wind canopy
But yeah, the simplification of all that CB usage was just 1.5 min 
tawdry geyser
Hekili’s good for building some muscle memory but (I personally found) the best way to learn it was to just do some reading and understand the Why of the buttons you’re hitting
lilac stag
Do I just stand at a dummy for like 4 hours or does hekili help learning initial...
It adjusts to your mistakes so not really a great solution. If you show enough of the planned abilities it may help you recognize what’s coming up and building some muscle memory.
fallen crescent
Hekili’s good for building some muscle memory but (I personally found) the best ...
^ reading is key
tawdry geyser
Yeah like as soon as I finally sat down and just read through all the guides I could find things started clicking way more
alpine wraith
you can still send cb at around 45 secs
twilit phoenix
Do I just stand at a dummy for like 4 hours or does hekili help learning initial...
i've just been gooning at the traning dummies for the last few hours
tawdry geyser
Between that and just building some familiarity with the spec it becomes a lot less daunting lol
lilac stag
you can still send cb at around 45 secs
lol in circles the conversation goes. 
twilit phoenix
waiting for hachadino's video
alpine wraith
mainly because on most bosses you have things to do in the 1:30 so can use the other cb a bit later
but the dmg diff wont be big anyway
so just crit the non cb ones
EZ
lilac stag
just macro it and say fuck it
idle aurora
Yeah I’ll watch some more video and stand at dummy then. But more or less it’s handle the three different burst windows and normal rotation right? Except the weird coup de grace thing where you have to black powder waiting for 4 stacks right?
wind canopy
I wouldn't worry about those small optimizations. Just get the main rotation down and then think about things like that (though not sure if that BP thing is a thing anymore).
lilac stag
Yeah I’ll watch some more video and stand at dummy then. But more or less it’s h...
Just send coup
Worry about sod with sectech
idle aurora
It’s more the different this burst window has 5 buttons this one has 3 this one has 2 then this one with vanish
That’s killing me
wind canopy
EZ
And yeah, it's small, not like game-changing. I'm just sticking with the CB/ST macro and not thinking about it
wind canopy
That’s killing me
There's the big CD window, and then it's just outside of it, which can incorporate Dance, SoD, and/or ST. Not the five.
idle aurora
I don’t know where to start building the muscle memory 😄
alpine wraith
And yeah, it's small, not like game-changing. I'm just sticking with the CB/ST m...
yea same unless there are some bosses where you can make it better
there are always those things to think about
idle aurora
But I should only be using backstab and evisc and rupture right outside of window?
In aoe
wind canopy
Are you playing trickster?
Should be using storm when you have flawless, backstab when you don't. Eviscerate/Rupture to finish.
static juniper
Can someone please elaborate on this.
Isn't flawless form a buff on the player?
grave abyss
probably means fazed probably means you want to eviscerate if you have flawless
static juniper
is there a moment where flawless form is not up tho
static juniper
tbf not pressing BP is turbo fun
cant wait to get into actual content and try the spec
vivid cobalt
VE stonks 📈
Explain yourself
tame terrace
ok
pliant topaz
seems to be down to the second <:kekw:610125925413289985>
problem is what do u use it on?
tame terrace
so last boss NW
perma tricks
does it bug out the add
if u get sent down
cuz it just did for me
evade bug
lilac stag
Disable it
pliant topaz
youre not likely to always have sectech or coup up the very second its up to immediately use it.
tame terrace
Disable it
well no duh
pliant topaz
so your choice is either a random evis or a backstab
backstab is kekw
evis cb is bugged
so ...
lilac stag
The holding is just stupid
pliant topaz
okay but what else would u use it on?
lilac stag
I said what I said
pliant topaz
based
hazy breach
You can have dance+sectech for it but its a bit complicated
pliant topaz
i guess u can just use it on a backstab 
pliant topaz
You can have dance+sectech for it but its a bit complicated
i tried it, but its really tight and hard. needs a lot of practice
lilac stag
so how big of a loss is it if that second flag sectech cb doesn’t come back up in time due to kill time?
Vs just doing it every 45 ST
ie have we manufactured a condition where it’s a lot for little gain and only applicable with x amount of time
novel plaza
during SD window , when do i press blackpowder for multitar situation?
lilac stag
Never
hazy breach
i tried it, but its really tight and hard. needs a lot of practice
Ye its fine on dummies but pretty hard in actual content
alpine wraith
does it bug out the add
yes also i kinda never play tricks so avoid using it on nw or just cancel it before pulling that boss
mortal snow
Hi, does anyone have a shadowstep + interrupt macro with mouseover?
slate marlin
mists 13, im improving
silent condor
hey, maybe someone can give me a feedback on this. First Dungeon - looks like right direction, distribution wise?
(fresh 590 gear)
old socket
how?
viral phoenix
silent condor
ty
tame terrace
yes also i kinda never play tricks so avoid using it on nw or just cancel it bef...
yea i just had to cancel it before getting sent down
i ddint realize it bugged it
until ithappened lol
sly shore
is atrophic stacking fixed @vale pine
steel zinc
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
ornate mica
!wa
sinful sluice
when do we shuriken instead of backstab on m+?
i feel like when cds are down and theres like 5~ targets shuriken storm gives more cps so i just spam it
wind canopy
when do we shuriken instead of backstab on m+?
Only when flawless form is up and out of dance
vale pine
is atrophic stacking fixed <@194804407706189824>
i would say no, but could always be
only way to find out would be to test
hazy breach
when do we shuriken instead of backstab on m+?
Everytime you have flawless form up and theres 2 or more targets
sinful sluice
Isnt flawless form up everytime? I thought it was triggered by one backstab or SS
sinful sluice
Oki
torn island
Sorry if this is hella late but shadow dance got cut by two seconds?
Or am I having technical issues
hazy breach
No, you likely just forgot to spec improved dance
torn island
So 12 with first dance
prisma heron
eh.. I havent played sub since DF... do we just not use the old shuriken/black powder anymore? those details reports are throwing me lol
wind canopy
You don't if you're playing trickster
hazy breach
No bp if trickster ye
torn island
How yall feel about double vanish 12 stack macabre combos?
hazy breach
What
torn island
With death stalker
alpine wraith
what
hazy breach
No idea what youre referring to
torn island
I try to do damage by getting my full stacks of dance macabre and make sure my biggest damage dealers are towards the end
hazy breach
No idea how you'd get 12 stacks of macabre, nor why vanish would be used for it
torn island
I can get them, vanish would be to escape and do it again
torn island
I know
Vanish would just be to escape after getting the 12th stack
@alpine wraith what would be ideal?
hazy breach
A. You absolutely should not try to get 12 stacks of macabre (nor is it possible)
B. Still have literally no idea what vanish would do
The only thing vanish does is proc premeditation
torn island
I already did it get 12 stacks
When you see the number on the icon that means the next ability gets that’s bonus correct?
I made it hit 13
did I just put my secret sauce?
Guys?
lol
hazy breach
Again, i dont understand what youre even talking about
torn island
lol
runic sequoia
torn island
I was just asking what your opinions are on using Max stacks for damage
hazy breach
Well to get more stacks you would have to use spells that do no damage
Which is worse than using spells that do damage
Like why use cheap shot to buff your eviscerates by 100k when you could do a 200k shadowstrike
Strike probably even does more than that
It does like 1M with rotten
alpine wraith
yo why does it says duskthread lining but in the sims its focus lense
duskthread with good uptime is better
wind canopy
Like why use cheap shot to buff your eviscerates by 100k when you could do a 200...
I swear this should be a command nowadays. Seen you post this like 100k times
torn island
Ok, that makes sense, essentially it would be sacrificial to get the max bonus, with a max stack rupture you do 4.4 mil over 28 seconds
wind canopy
Max stack rupture?
hazy breach
Rupture doesnt snapshot the bonus
uneven scarab
hazy breach
Once dance ends the effects stops
torn island
Well then how I do 4.4 mil damage?
My damage sustains at that rate even after it ends
wind canopy
Do you have a log to prove that?
wind canopy
...
uneven scarab
torn island
💁🏽♂️
uneven scarab
i think you may be confused sir
hazy breach
Also i have no idea how you'd get 12 stacks as we only have 9 abilities that proc it
torn island
Gooday
hazy breach
10 with gauge i guess
alpine wraith
nice to see we have our crazy people
wind canopy
Curious what he was hitting his sectecs for because I'm guessing he's waiting until the last minute to hit them thinking they snapshot with dance with the stuff he was talking about.
wind canopy
lol
13 abilities when you don't have that many as rogue. Trying to get 13 stacks when you don't have enough GCDs in dance outside the first dance (and assuming w/TFD)...
wind canopy
If he posted a screenshot of DM going to 13, maybe
Unless he was talking about Flawless?
torn island
If you bug me I’ll try and get the screen shot of the 13
swift tinsel
technically the burden of proof falls on you
torn island
But I 100% have been at this since dragon flight
Oh I mean technically yeah, but I also don’t need to prove myself for self gain. I was simply asking what the thoughts are in it
uneven scarab
bad
bronze hatch
i think, monkey shakespeare
torn island
lul
alpine wraith
getting a 16m sec tech pogg
keen dome
It'd be worth seeing some logs of it.
But I doubt it's worth it, even if it was possible.
torn island
So answer me one question cause getting the 12 is a 100%
wind canopy
I mean, ultimately, you can do whatever you want. Your gameplay, but until you can provide proof with logs/screenshots/etc it actually does more damage than just saying "I can do 4.4 mil ruptures", it's gonna fall on deaf ears.
torn island
Idk if I can get the 13 again if I didn’t record it
hazy breach
So answer me one question cause getting the 12 is a 100%
Then show us
Whats giving more than 1 stack
bronze hatch
ss or i had to poop
torn island
If there’s 11 stacks of dance macabre, does that mean the next ability used get 6% x 11 bonus?
hazy breach
While in dance yes
torn island
ok
wind canopy
Or prove the sequence of abilities you'd use to get to 13 stacks of DM
torn island
So you’re completely right with the snapshot as far as the 13th (or possibly 12th now that it’s more clear) I don’t recall if I tried rupture or sec tech
But in my current adventures, I’m trying to run a combo and get to 12 on the number of stacks before dance runs out
I mean you probably opted out of some abilities which would limit your stack gaining ability
For example I use shiv
wind canopy
Again, name the abilities you'd run to get there. And doing so with 8 seconds of Dance, with each GCD consisting of 1 sec.
hazy breach
Ig if you use shiv and goremaw
ember trail
how important is it to get your coup in symbols charger combo point? or doesnt it matter as long as sectech uses the charger points
hazy breach
But like bruh
hazy breach
how important is it to get your coup in symbols charger combo point? or doesnt i...
It doesnt matter, as long as sectech gets buffed
ember trail
sweet, thanks
torn island
It would be 12 seconds of dance with the first dance bonus
And then I guess I only get 11 stacks
Not 12 😦
I have to try and find that 13
Honestly might be deleted though
Since I couldn’t keep her I just sent her on her way 😦
Made that go to 13 :’(
charred sandal
backstab, shadowstrike, evis, cheap, kidney, rupture, gouge, shiv, shuriken, storm, blackpowder and sec tec
12, but idk bout that
torn island
I’ll try and recreate the 13 and come back and post it so you guys can tell me how bad I am for going down that rabbit hole xD
charred sandal
torn island
You would have to space out your cheap and kidney
wind canopy
backstab, shadowstrike, evis, cheap, kidney, rupture, gouge, shiv, shuriken, sto...
Technically could take Goremaw's as well. But that least alone has like four zdps abilities
charred sandal
Technically could take Goremaw's as well. But that least alone has like four zdp...
thats the 13 
torn island
Well actually
wind canopy
Yeah, and that's like four seconds of doing no damage, so what was the point of taking TFD then?
torn island
Slice and dice does extend when you use it with dm stacks
okok I’m out to try and replicate the elusive 13 but I see my play style is frowned upon
lol
charred sandal
Yeah, and that's like four seconds of doing no damage, so what was the point of ...
let him cook 
wind canopy
I mean, people have been trying to milk out DM stacks since it came out using sub-par abilities. Not sure why it'd change now
charred sandal
that was the good ol DF days
charred sandal
i mean it cant be worse than the combo point broker who was only using builders
grave abyss
but I get so much builder crit chance / crit damage from talents
why would I use anything else
fair zinc
If I already converted 2 conquest pieces to set with the catalyst, am I cooked if I wanted to gear for pve now?
Or does that not matter too much
fair stump
Since what m+ level does vault drop mythic gear?
tawdry frigate
old socket
did we hit 13 stacks of danse?
topaz raptor
623 wouldn’t be that strong, 619 in all slots is free and then you’re just gated by gilded
lucid jackal
Any new M+ meme build today
warm aspen
623 wouldn’t be that strong, 619 in all slots is free and then you’re just gated...
that's kinda the point lol
we'd be gated by crests but raiders would still want our heads
strange chasm
Any new M+ meme build today
Yeah go to specializations and press assassination
near rivet
regarding that danse macabre stacks
i think you guys forgot that pressing dance initially gives you FIRST DM stack
wind canopy
True, for his argument's sake
lucid jackal
Yeah go to specializations and press assassination
blocked
lucid jackal
Yeah go to specializations and press assassination
Don't care + Having fun + Playing
hoary sun
Assa would have done 2.8 eta gg
lucid jackal
Assa would have done 2.8 eta gg
strange chasm
Don't care + Having fun + Playing
Just joshing you
gritty knot
Oh, ye. And here I thought u cracked the code and blasted some 13 stack Danse macabre super duper Combos 😂
jaunty umbra
thats the tech
play with shitters
lucid jackal
I mean this spec does damage
But in a low damage group u can just eat more of the damage up
Since this spec in CDs is broken
mists has mega downtime too so u get to afk on cds a bunch
strange chasm
Yeah it does very similar damage to sin sim wise for dungeon slice
gritty knot
I just recently went to Ara Kara +13 tonight and asked if they mind if I play sub or stay assa. I played Assa. First Boss the ret dies two times. Last boss hallway Tank dies, we wipe. We all run back and Shaman Heal falls through a hole in those webs and dies again. Until then I didn't fail or die a single time. Last boss I get killed by this poison wave shit accidently and healer dies shortly after too. Key depleted. One guy writes in group Chat: "Mr rogue u shouldn't play either Assa or sub. U have some srs other Problems." Like what da fuck 😂😂 That Shit hurt and still does 😂 Always blame rogues I guess
hazy breach
I mean this spec does damage
Ye sub does good damage, probably slightly less than assa on overall but its fine because the damage is a bit different
It actually does damage to bosses instead of doing like 750k
Mostly im a big fan of pressing my cds and seeing the boss HP just plummet
lucid jackal
Ye sub does good damage, probably slightly less than assa on overall but its fin...
Yeah its really satisfying to just kill something
Crazy, tornado is bad, and dust is removed and sub is so fun to play again
It's also funny that giving a spec blade flurry just makes it so much more fun to play
short radish
hazy breach
Tfd
lucid jackal
Just keep veiled touch
lucid jackal
Makes sense
hazy breach
(the WM extra strikes doesnt flurry btw :^) )
short radish
!wa
hazy breach
Eh, maybe but i figured you would mostly just get tilted by it
lucid jackal
LOL
hazy breach
It has a buff tied to it
hazy breach
So dont need a out of combat timer
short radish
but yeah TFD is kinda busted when you have it up
hazy breach
Just track the ticking down buff of it if you want
hazy breach
No
short radish
damn
hazy breach
Brother its not even close
short radish
i didnt do any math
this is why im not smart
dunno sometimes it feels you can just chain 3 dances with it though
probably shouldnt
hazy breach
You can do that without tfd
Since youll be having blades you dont actually get any more cp from tfd
Its just more damage
Or well technically i guess its like 1-2 strikes after blades end
gilded ferry
Greenparsing is so sad
hazy breach
But its mostly just the damage
short radish
gilded ferry
Im washed bros
short radish
just hit some dummies
gilded ferry
its time to accept retirement
lucid jackal
So dont need a out of combat timer
Yeah I just usually only have my weakaura show in combat
so I just have to add it so this one shows out of combat
hazy breach
Yeah I just usually only have my weakaura show in combat
Speaking of satsifying things to kill, looking at guardian damage on the first platform of queen during our wipes
And seeing an enermous yellow bar at the top since im the only one popping anything there 👌
gilded ferry
for some reason, i cannot break the barrier of 1.1M of DPS
uncut bloom
You think you’re the drink, you’re not even the cup
supple verge
skardyn
tulip token
Don't care + Having fun + Playing
Yo this is what I meant. Sub has the damage and people literally don't even know. They think its "dead". I will say assa having ironwire is nice af util. Nice damage tho ❤️
tulip token
Double nice
lucid jackal
Sin is boring lame and cringe tho
I also just hate sin in low keys
Esp doing like, 5 main guild run 10s it's like
U gotta ramp
and then when ur ramped
The target ur focusing dies
At least with sub U can just move the bag to another target and still do good damage
No stupid, gotta reapp rupture/caustic
spark tusk
Yeah sub just goes
hazy breach
Sub feels a bit bad in that aspect as well since your cds are like 20s long so stuff can be dying before its over
But its way better than assa in that aspect
hazy breach
Ye
lucid jackal
Yeah its only when the entire pack dies
But idk
Just way more satisfying to play
Just fun to blow shit up
Been skipping last phase 2nd miscaller boss with sub cds + another person in disc to coordinate
Kinda funny
I'm struggling how to navigate flag tho
I think that's the thing I'm fucking up the most
pliant topaz
subs a fucking blast rn
lucid jackal
is it important to do Flag > finisher
cuz like
I keep instintually doing flag > finisher > shd/sod stuff
pliant topaz
not sure what you mean, you said u do flag> finisher both scenarios
lucid jackal
I just mean like
I see the sim sometimes do flag > backstab backstab finisher
I'm just unsure if its important to do flag finisher
tepid trellis
most important thing is to just get 2sectechs inside of flag / transmitter
pliant topaz
^
Flag backstab does sound like its wasting flag gcds which is weirdge. would need to look into that later and see whats causing it.
but yeah just get your entire burst during flag and youre chilling
torn island
did we hit 13 stacks of danse?
I deleted the footy and I’m not near a computer rn but I’ll try and recreate
flint parrot
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hazy breach
hi where are 11.0.7 sims? <:sitmadge:1098972930605588491>
Theoretically though maghar should be decent and probably better than orc
jaunty heath
Maghar 
hazy breach
It being unable to give haste or crit makes it way better
charred sandal
is veiltouched better than planned execution?
hazy breach
Ontop of being actually just a bigger number than the orc one
jaunty heath
Im curious about VE
hazy breach
Depends on what "proc activation rate adjusted" means
Im fairly sure it means that its no longer a 60s ICD that procs immediately, but is instead a regular rppm proc
Which would probably make it worse, but hopefully the change the how it functions allows it to work on sectech, not holding my breath though
pliant topaz
Theoretically though maghar should be decent and probably better than orc
i saw that too... depends on the stat values ig
hazy breach
Its like 6.5k
pliant topaz
oh that coculd be decent for sure
hazy breach
Also the numbers on stat stuff on the new ring seems ass, but maybe spell data is scuffed and/or wrong
halcyon ridge
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hazy breach
Like the total number of stats you'd get from slotting all of the stat bonuses doesnt add up to more than another ring of the equivalent ilvl, but maybe the ring is just silly high ilvl?
pliant topaz
Also the numbers on stat stuff on the new ring seems ass, but maybe spell data i...
probably similar to onyx annulet
that thing was turbo ass too
then they overbuffed it
hazy breach
Hopefully we can end up using the mastery stuff on it if thats the case and not be the proc gods
But since we have so much vers thats probably not gonna be the case
pliant topaz
its kinda interesting that thye learned and were like okay this things really bad for specs that want stat and really good for crit vers monkeys
now theyre doign both
im curious if they can figure it out
lilac stag
Where dot7 race sims?!?!
lunar bluff
can someone tell me how to paly sub in keys now, im so confused
insert yellow name joke here
lilac stag
Aggressively. Line up sod with Sectech. Try to pool 2 dances & 2 sod for flag go.
steel spindle
is Mad Queen better for us than sims say? Mine puts it down pretty far compared to other trinkets.
I have a queen 619, a transmitter 626, and a spyglass 626, void contract 619, and skardyn 619
warm aspen
Which would probably make it worse, but hopefully the change the how it function...
i love how they go thru so much pains to give convoluted updates to stuff like VE
meanwhile forsaken passive is sitting at like 0.0000000001% of overall dmg
kekw
steel horizon
is Mad Queen better for us than sims say? Mine puts it down pretty far compared ...
2nd trinket slot is kinda funny. for me, scroll of momentum is my best 2nd slot
in ST at least
steel spindle
for me its a 619 shadow bindings
oblique grove
wind canopy
is there a way to do TTS with bigwigs
I don’t know if BW can, but you can make a WA that tracks that BW event and do it there
tribal blade
I don’t know if BW can, but you can make a WA that tracks that BW event and do i...
oh i think i found out you need to have a seperate addon for it
wind canopy
Oh, that works too lol
tribal blade
hm it seems to activate the voice for every single ability in bigwigs
how do i test this
wind canopy
Just run test bars and see how they respond?
tribal blade
oh is that a thing
wind canopy
There should be an option for them
unkempt trench
Just crafted a 636 mainhand dagger and i still have 90 more gilded crests, should i craft an offhand 636 or upgrade my other pieces first?
the rest of my gear are all 619
not sure how important ilvl is on sub rogue's offhand compared to ilvl on my tier sets and other equipment
warm aspen
Just crafted a 636 mainhand dagger and i still have 90 more gilded crests, shoul...
offhand is trash slot
tribal blade
no don't craft an offhand
tribal blade
offhand is trash slot
this
unkempt trench
kk offhand literally just stat stick?
warm aspen
yup
unkempt trench
what do u guys craft for 2nd piece? bracers?
warm aspen
stat stick, except it has less stats than fking boots xD
tribal blade
you get more value out of upgrading myth track pieces
myth track items are very valuable right now
tribal blade
tribal blade
i have a 636 dagger and i'm still using a 619 free heroic crest 2nd embel
this
crafted this with a free heroic crest i got from something
unkempt trench
i might craft 636 bracer then since its bis and put elemental lens on it
tribal blade
and i'm just using all my crests to upgrade myth track pieces
warm aspen
i might craft 636 bracer then since its bis and put elemental lens on it
bracer is okay
ring's always gonna be a good slot
bcuz even if blizzard decides to fucking sodomize you with rng in ur next vault ur not wasting anything
tribal blade
you can put your 2nd embel on a slot that is the best place to put it how your gear is currently at
warm aspen
unlike if u craft like helm or somethin and then get myth track helm very next vault
unkempt trench
and is treacherous transmitter still bis? i checked on bloodmallet and its all the way at the bottom now
warm aspen
transmitter bis, bloodmallet is like
tribal blade
keep in mind we're getting the new ring in the patch
warm aspen
flat earther of rogue data site now
warm aspen
keep in mind we're getting the new ring in the patch
tru
unkempt trench
so top 2 are transmitter and mad queen?
tribal blade
i think mad queen's is not as good as before
tribal blade
mad queen's isn't simming as well as it used to
tribal blade
because we have a fuckton of damage in cds now
tribal blade
yeah he right, so long as you have transmitter you can kinda put w/e in the 2nd slot
w/e sims best out of what you got
unkempt trench
transmitter worth upgrading to 626?
unkempt trench
shit wow lmao
tribal blade
transmitter worth upgrading to 626?
depends
i dunno if it's worth sending gilded crests to upgrade a hero track piece
unkempt trench
i literally paid 100k to buy the hero version off some dude last week cuz my vault been trolling me since week 1
tribal blade
you kinda need to play the long game with crests
don't just send upgrades on random stuff
warm aspen
transmitter alone is kinda worth it tho
unkempt trench
well i have a whopping 0 myth track piece
unkempt trench
will get one next week
tribal blade
so my transmitter is still 619 because i haven't gotten a single myth track trinket yet
warm aspen
see i think the difference between us is i dont even clear the raid on heroic lol
my RL bro finally let me go from his cringe heroics andy first time player raid
now i just have to carry keys to keep my 10k repairs/day
tribal blade
ahhh gotcha
warm aspen
so game just got less unfun, but i also just don't access raid loot anymore
tribal blade
i honestly don't know how to spend crests if you don't have access to a lot of myth track pieces
warm aspen
funny thing is, they set up gearing pretty well in that regard
unkempt trench
so u guys still use wowhead for bis gear?
warm aspen
if u get a good piece in vault u just max it that week and ur 90 is gone
unkempt trench
or iceyvein