subtlety

[hazy breach]

Didnt seem to work by just unspeccing it, if it works its probably with some sussy actions

[molten citrus]

Yeah I haven’t even tried it

Just had a few people tell me about it today

It could also just be bugged in arena or something weird

[strange chasm]

Yeah court is actually somehow worse btw

the spikes are snapping people

[hazy breach]

Ye im not discrediting it, but i cant seem to replicate it on dummies atleast

[vestal escarp]

court has like 5 desyncs

with abilities/visuals

kyves kills your ram every dash

ovinax eats up egg breaks every now and then

i think i didnt buy enough brontosaurus

maybe they need a couple more

[latent fog]

we can 't triple technique with trickster anymore right

wowhead just not uipdated?

[fossil holly]

we just dont use SnD anymore?

[spark tusk]

we cannot that is correct. See https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1271971289396936735 for some more details on opener

[latent fog]

oh thank god

ty ty

[spark tusk]

correct, eviscate casts it for us

[fossil holly]

ah i see

[molten citrus]

Either way that’s a good thing, hopefully there’s not another exploit

[left ledge]

sick

so now

queen has bugged web blades

that have a missing visual

and randomly do damage

greaaaaaaaaat

man i cant wait to prog through another buggy shit boss

thank god they dropped that bruto mount

[golden totem]

yea

that happens since patch

:)

[left ledge]

yeah its very fun

what a good game

[wispy bolt]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9F6wvZzNqmHLfP3G#fight=31&type=damage-done&source=15

is this the tech?

#3 on brood

(not mine)

[flint sundial]

my vanish has been not giving me stealth stance this patch too

[rugged condor]

before shadow dance was the limiting factor before for coup yeah? now it's blades?

[steel horizon]

what do u mean limiting factor?

[rugged condor]

like, before if we wanted to min max, we'd wait to use coup on dance

but now it's blades?

[steel horizon]

the only thing is to make sure the target is fazed before using it

as long as you use sectec as your first gcd in dance, you'll get a coup during most dances

i dont think that section of the guide is updated for 11.05

we get more cdr now with the extra symbols which means more sectec which means more coup

[nimble burrow]

holy!

[molten citrus]

[spark tusk]

[nimble burrow]

what should i take

[spark tusk]

Blessed Bac

[hazy breach]

If you only ever intend on playing sub the legs or the chest

[nimble burrow]

how to choose compare neck and grace to play both outlaw and sub

[hazy breach]

But if you want to play assa skardyn is really really amazing

And super hard to get from vault

[nimble burrow]

yea i am not good at sin atm and dont rly want to play, my major is sub/outlaw

so thats kinda stuggling

[short radish]

sub stonks rising

[ember hound]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[twilit phoenix]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns.
The following macros are an exception:yaml /cast Cold Blood /cast Secret Technique

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[twilit phoenix]

do you guys use separate CB + CB/SecTec binds?

[stark zealot]

Heyyyy i was curious how close are the stat values for sub if someone was just gonna play in Sin gear?

[short radish]

well... we might have to now

since it's a 0.5% dps increase to CB on your 2nd sectech in blade

[short radish]

sub cares about stats a bit more than assi

but you should be fine unless youre stacking haste and crit

[hazy breach]

#subtlety message
^ can read about some CB stuff here, i havent bothered making a pin for it or whatever

[stark zealot]

my stats

[hazy breach]

Key thing is that you'd have to line your dance+symbols+sectech precisely ontop of CBs cd, since any second youre delaying cb ends up meaning you delay flag.

Flag with <13s cd left of cb and you'll get it up for the second one

[short radish]

versa might be a bit low but /shrug

sometimes it is what it is

[tribal blade]

@pliant topaz i see you're pushing more as sub

[hazy breach]

And if you miss the cb window, just dont cb and hold it for flag

[short radish]

can just find some heavy vers jewelery

stats don't matter too much at the end of teh day anyway

[stark zealot]

big true!

[short radish]

• you have a lot of mastery

[twilit phoenix]

sub looks fun but a bit intimidating

[short radish]

sub is fun

try it out

[stark zealot]

i do have Skardyns too

[short radish]

oh

actually i think if you dont have transmitter

[hazy breach]

Get a transmitter

[short radish]

sub would feel kinda garbo

[stark zealot]

and spy glass

[hazy breach]

Spyglass is fine

[stark zealot]

When im able too

[twilit phoenix]

i feel like the game is telling me to go sub

[hazy breach]

But every trinket that isnt transmitter is bad in comparison

[twilit phoenix]

i got h trans + mandate

[stark zealot]

i hated transmitter on my arms warrior D:

[short radish]

dw

you can hate it on your rogue as well

[stark zealot]

[pliant topaz]

im playing it a bit yeah seems fun

[tribal blade]

i'm having more fun playing sub than sin in keys

[hazy breach]

Same

[pliant topaz]

same

[tribal blade]

the only thing i don't like is using transmitter

but that's only every 1.5 mins

instead of just hating life playing DS 24/7

[hazy breach]

If only blades worked on nimble so my aoe burst could be cracked

[pliant topaz]

could you imagine?

crazy

[tribal blade]

the damage feels really good

but stuff dies way too fast in 12s

for proper rupture spreading

[pliant topaz]

the only dungeon i cant really do too well on as sub is ara kara idk

[hazy breach]

After playing sin for a while and doing 750k on bosses

[pliant topaz]

specifically the first area

[hazy breach]

Its real nice to do like 1.2M as sub

[tribal blade]

i think because ara has so many big pulls maybe

[pliant topaz]

maybe. yeah its just that first area

[tribal blade]

i guess as trickster you can rupture as you go

with perma tricks up

that's what i used to od

[thick field]

dumb question - sometimes when i use a generator it sometimes gives me the cp and then an additional 2 randomly, is that shadow techniques? is it random? also sometimes when i cast a finisher i get all my points back but i cant figure out why or what the trigger to that is

[spark tusk]

Those are Shadow Techniques and Shadowcraft respectively

Shadow Techniques is a base effect passive in your spellbook. Shadowcraft is a talent in the bottom row

Take a look at those tooltips to understand more

[tribal blade]

you want a WA to track shadow techniques, helps a lot

to know when refunds are coming

[thick field]

gotcha, i was just confused when it says "attacks that can generate cp can expend those", but it seems like it only does sometimes. i have a tracker but sometimes it stacks to like 2 or 3 cp before my gernerators use them it feels like

but maybe im just missing it

[tribal blade]

basically when you have at least 7 cps during symbols your next finisher will insta fill your combo points

[short radish]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[tribal blade]

(7cps of shadow techniques)

[short radish]

any one of the weak auras should track it

[lucid jackal]

U got a fancy build or just the tornado one

[pliant topaz]

its just the normal trickster build but VT over tornado

[lucid jackal]

What's VT again

[pliant topaz]

Vetiled touch

[lucid jackal]

Oh so true

[spark tusk]

If you have stacks when you use a generator, it will use your stacks to grant you more combo points. It smartly uses them, that is it won't waste them when it doesn't need them (I.e. if you have 6 stacks, and 3 cp, and cast backstab, it won't drain all 6, it will only drain 3 stacks from the 6 because that will max you out).

It should do this every time, if it doesn't it may be lag

[pliant topaz]

i really dont think tornado works for trickster

and u lose a lot of st for it

[lucid jackal]

It also makes me upset

So love the sound of that

[short radish]

tornado is poop

[spark tusk]

glad to hear that

[pliant topaz]

sub feels really fun though!

I feel like i can compete with even enhance

on most keys

like on COT 14 I think i did 2.4M overall with aug and the enhance was at 2.5M

[spark tusk]

If weird things happen and I misplay my dance/symbols and I'm down charges where I should be by flag

should I hold flag until I get more stacks back?

or just send and eat the loss

[cold plover]

What's highest crit can sub rogue can do ?

[pliant topaz]

Pretty sure it depends on if you lose a flag/blades cast

[spark tusk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1301332426781495316/image.png?ex=672417c4&is=6722c644&hm=3e0873bae9716682113660d34795c8110c2b1dcd5ef6453a98d537127a7b7d04&

Those 3 hits are all one button press

[spark tusk]

I guess I'm mostly thinking about this for m+

so not like a tight raid encounter

but like, a chaotic pug m+

which is the case where things get messed up with timings

[warm aspen]

holy fuck what are your gears lol

I've gotten like 1.9 mil overall on pad maps like mist

but 2.4 seems fking excessive man

[edgy zenith]

I've gotten 1.9M natty (no aug), but never cracked above 2M without an aug

aug is actually pretty beans for Sub anyway

[mint moon]

I feel like Im going crazy

is there a LUNGE on eviscerate on trickester?

[rugged condor]

Coup de grace

[mint moon]

thats what i thought but its not in the fuckin tooltip andI just bricked a GB like that on 3rd boss lmao

or at least its not in the hero talent tooltiop

even the tooltip on my action bar doesnt have that it lunges

that is CRINGE

thats what I get for trying trickster sub in a GB i guess

[spark tusk]

yes it charges you to the target

[pliant topaz]

are you guys excited for 10.0.7 ptr stuff tmrw?

[warm aspen]

not as excited as i am to see ur character 😦

[spark tusk]

Is there anything that involves class stuff?

I guess I would be interested to see if I can sniff out any info about the ring

and if there's any profession tie ins

[bleak night]

damn this patch doesnt even work yet and they've moved on to testing the next one

[warm aspen]

lul yeah kinda pepega ngl

[silent condor]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[silent condor]

Hey guys, just started twinking around with my rogue. Only playing m+, if I check fuus spreadsheet, sub is not far behind. Why is the number of sub players so low then?

[tribal blade]

wait what's happening

[warm aspen]

first of all m+ sims are not for actual "how much damage do i do in keys"

more for "which item/spell deals more dmg in a key setting"

[silent condor]

Yep that's a valid point

[warm aspen]

yeah like ur dmg in SoB and in Mists are gonna be way different lol

[silent condor]

I play UH at the moment, big pulls big DPS, small pulls not as much. Depends on dungeon.

[warm aspen]

also, one is a dungeon with dmg amp 2 target boss + main stat buff, the other has dps lowering mechanics on every boss

so yeah

but also also

sub was straight garbage until anniversary patch droped

like actual unplayable dogshit

[silent condor]

Yeah that's a blizzard classic

[warm aspen]

and then the update came and this channel bust a collective nut

[molten citrus]

Isn’t it just a new mini zone and a ring?

[warm aspen]

dragonflight 2.0 xDDD

[silent condor]

So, is sin just overhyped or any drawback as a sub ?

[warm aspen]

nah sin still stronger

BUT sub's viable now

[silent condor]

1cm stronger or 20cm shlong stronger

[warm aspen]

like unless ur pushing +16s this week u don't have to swap sin

[silent condor]

Pushing with my friends in the 11-12 range

[warm aspen]

but before it's like if u play sub in 12+ ur a griefer

11s are almost boring now lol

[silent condor]

So sub seems like an option now, guess I give it a try

[warm aspen]

sub absolutely is an option

[silent condor]

We got some issues early season, so we came out behind. Still trying to catchup

[warm aspen]

oh i meant just in general

[silent condor]

😄

[warm aspen]

in 11s if u play with a full premade group of competent ppl

sometimes u wont even get to run ur full burst cuz mobs die too fast lol

tahts how poggers we are

[silent condor]

Got some sad runs yesterday as UH, if you require 7sec of setup, retri Pala+SV Hunter deleted the pack before you're ready

But yeah, happy that sub is viable. For me the rogue spec I like the most.

[warm aspen]

LUL yeah

new sub just full sends almost right away

like ur setup is like 5 gcd technically

but in m+ u always have snd up so it's more like 3 gcds including the first shadowstrike from stealth lol

actually feels like we're bursting now

and not knitting sweaters

[pliant topaz]

not sure. they just said ptr. but wouldnt be surprised if there was class updates with it

[silent condor]

Just scrolled over the guide, we do only use black powder in AOE outside dance ?

[warm aspen]

ngl

just remove bp from bar xD

[warm aspen]

yeah we are shadow outlaw now

[round latch]

thats the cringe part of playing trickster

[short radish]

bp in single target

backstab in aoe

[round latch]

watch ur mouth young one

[short radish]

lets go baby

[round latch]

pretty sure deathstalker bps like a normal specc right mr @pliant topaz ?

[pliant topaz]

yep

[shell lance]

Is good to use shiv in st or aoe?

[pliant topaz]

neither

only for soothe

[warm aspen]

tru u right at least they can go up to 8 target flurry

we hardstuck 5

[tepid trellis]

[pliant topaz]

nimbles also 8 what

[warm aspen]

wait

im stupid

[round latch]

[warm aspen]

BUT WE TAKE IT

[tepid trellis]

yep

[pliant topaz]

[warm aspen]

i'll accept being stupid

if it means i get to cleave 8 targets

poggers!

[round latch]

outlaw too strong in you fam

[warm aspen]

brain fully rotted

BUT I TAKE IT

8 targets woo hoo

if only sectech wasn't neutered to secondary targets tho

[ember hound]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[round latch]

so basicly trickster had no gains from the bp buff

[warm aspen]

i swear it's negative gains

bcuz now u bp more in st?

[round latch]

for danse stacks

[warm aspen]

and it min-maxes dmg at the cost of our will to live

[round latch]

we wanna send the nuke fully buffed

[warm aspen]

ngl tho i feel like i'd rather just turn off brain and send

unless dance is like a few gcds away

[round latch]

u most likely do more dmg that way coz rng and tanks being completely brainrot

this is on a vaccuum

when u have tanks chainpulling 3 mobs everything is irrelevant,u wont do dmg

[warm aspen]

lul

yeah

[silent condor]

Hadn't played sub since early DF. Fully buffed 5-6 stacks ?

[warm aspen]

this is like

0.5% optimizations

[round latch]

if u can yeah,the more buffed the better,should read Fuu's guide,stealthi's also solid

they say the same things but stealthi is more subtle

we like racoons

[warm aspen]

subtle for subtlety rogues? we like

[molten citrus]

yeah hopefully they do some more stuff

[tepid trellis]

[round latch]

[warm aspen]

yo this is a RLY good price right

[round latch]

with that amount of gold u could lvl up 2 proffessions and make millions

fully stacked

fully stacked JC and Blacksmithing

sending everburning forges for alloys and frameworks and wpns

[warm aspen]

prefer selling some keys lol

[tepid trellis]

based

fuck professions

[round latch]

💀

noobs

[tepid trellis]

my gold will come from boosting or not at all

aint no way im finna play around with profession, id rather go drink a bucket of paint

[round latch]

im almost at 20mil by generating passive gold now

i jsut exist

[warm aspen]

idk lol treating professions as anything more than some free pots and some herbs to gather while i wait for keys to form

just kinda kills my passion for the game

[round latch]

its not like i treat them as anything more than that

[warm aspen]

im a zug zug dumbass lol, anything other than combat is just super boring to me

[round latch]

basicly do 30min a day some cds and generate gold

i dont even bother,gold is on my mailbox every morning

ive farmed at patch launch now im chilling

[tepid trellis]

i log in when i have to raid, and log out once its over

[round latch]

ye but u are quitting anyway

[tepid trellis]

no?

[round latch]

u said so idk

im happy if u dont

[tepid trellis]

im just gonna do what i always do when prog is over

raid log

and play other games

[warm aspen]

cant tell if ironic but this is basically me with keys lol

delves are just dead to me now that i got trinket

[tepid trellis]

nah i dont play wow outside of guild stuff

[warm aspen]

raiding fills me with rage

i just live in keys and guild chat lmao

[tepid trellis]

i dont enjoy m+ anymore i dont enjoy pvp

all i wanna do is progress raid

[warm aspen]

LUL

[tepid trellis]

rest is boring af to me

[warm aspen]

i swear blizz treats pvp with as much care as fishing or archeology

[round latch]

its on a better spot but its weird now

im pvping

[warm aspen]

pvp progession just seems like it's a lot less effort than the pve track

[tepid trellis]

last time i remotely enjoyed pvp is 8 years ago

[warm aspen]

and don't all the old bg maps have like stories

nowadays pvp has less story relevance than some toy questliens xD

[round latch]

its not like we are binded by sparks or anything,its linear progression and much faster

u just need to play the game

[tepid trellis]

im like an anti lore goblin

i dont even know who the hell Ansurek is

im just here to stomp spiders

[round latch]

guns blazing

[tepid trellis]

wow is just the only game that does raiding like this

so thats why im playing it

[round latch]

kill stuff loot it

[warm aspen]

murder hobos xD

[tribal blade]

it's kinda weird, i'm huge on story in movies and tv shows, but in games i don't really care

just skip every single cutscene, wanna play the game

[warm aspen]

imo most games don't let me choose the kind of story i care about lol

idk if it's like that for u

[tribal blade]

it's mostly i enjoy playing games because of the actual gameplay

i like doing things in games

[warm aspen]

that too

actually moving the characters right

as opposed to losing control of ur avatar

[tribal blade]

movies and tv shows are different because you're just chilling and immersed in the story 😉

[tribal blade]

yeah i get really tilted every time i get a cutscene

or have to do stupid RP

[warm aspen]

lul yup

worse when it's like part of a fight in relevant content

right

[round latch]

I dont mind the lore stuff but cutscenes are annoying

like u kill stuff u wanna check the loot and something weird happens

(i like jaina though,and she needs babies,facts are facts)

[warm aspen]

dont ntr arthas bro

Kalecgos is bad enough

[round latch]

ild never simp for anything,u got my word

btw i like her voice more than anything,she is

good stuff

[warm aspen]

laura bailey the goat

her version of akali was also far superior

[round latch]

the voice actor u mean?

yeah she is a piece

[warm aspen]

yup

[bleak night]

oh i didnt realize she voiced jaina

idk how i never noticed

[warm aspen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDj2aaxixxo&ab_channel=WorldofWarcraft

peak story

[round latch]

i liked more pride of kul tiras

[warm aspen]

that bit with arthas man

[bleak night]

man looking through big voice actors roles is always funny as fuck

[warm aspen]

after they turned jaina into a scalie, arthas into SL currency, and sylvanas into actual hitler, yeah i rly don't think im gonna be into the game's story anymore lol

[bleak night]

stuff like "president of the united states" in saints row to gotenks in a dbz kinect game

[round latch]

sylvanas did perform a genocide

[bleak night]

warchiefs do tend to turn into hitler

bit of a nasty habit there

[warm aspen]

feels so bad to lose sylvanas tho lol

how long was garrosh around for?

[bleak night]

idk i only started playing in late cata

"only"

christ im old now

[warm aspen]

was he already warchief then?

[bleak night]

yes

[warm aspen]

i leveled my first ever toon dong like classic quests and shit in WoD

[bleak night]

think he became warchief in cata

[warm aspen]

the OG forsaken campaign

sylvanas was such a cool character back then

[half comet]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[sinful sluice]

how do we send out 1.4m tech? im 631 but my tech only does max 2m~ dmg

[cold plover]

Any Dracthyr here ?

[glossy junco]

As a sub rogue in PvP, is having a sword off-hand a big dps loss?

[tribal blade]

has blizz done anything about the people who abused the outlaw bug yet

[molten citrus]

ye

[haughty mural]

Yes

[vale pine]

only the extreme abusers

[tribal blade]

interesting

there's a rogue on my friendslist who is 2900 and has a 15 GB timed

which is a rank 1 key

and when i looked at the run he was the only dps, so they 3 manned the key

[vale pine]

lol

[tribal blade]

i'm a little upset they didn't do more to curtail this

it's kind of bs

[vale pine]

blizz is overall fairly inconsistent with punishment

you see this even in major events

e.g. this race limit had their mage stream abusing a obviouse mage bug/exploit

yet nothing happened, it incentivizes people to abuse what they find if its not massively broken

now it depends who you ask

[tribal blade]

i really think they should have looked deeper into it

because it means a lot of people are going to get away with it

[vale pine]

liquid max did essentially say people who complain about it are unreasonable

[tribal blade]

i guess it would take a lot of time

[vale pine]

but this discussion happens every time there is a exploit or similar

[tribal blade]

hm, i think i hard disagree with him

i really despise cheating

[vale pine]

e.g. echo cheated everyone out of a great push competition with a bug exploit

winning a money price

echo also had a weakaura that could circumvent parts of private auras

i have no idea how much it was used, but the potential that they used it for anything gets people angry

and there are a lot of cases like this

going back for years now

[tribal blade]

it's just sad when people who don't participate in these kinds of exploits and want to play fair are shafted

oh well

not much can be done

[vale pine]

e.g. a good example is legion

or mythic+

People in early Legion used a exploit to get unreasonable amounts of AP fast

people got banned iirc 24h or 48

but kept their AP

but Ap was a weird system, where you only got a very short term benefit, so your "gain" was useless because every other player had the same nearly for free in a week

[tribal blade]

ahh i didn't know that happened at the start of legion

[vale pine]

or in raids

for helya people did purposefully spawn adds outside of the boss area

meaning you removed some of the core mechanics of the fight, giving you a lot more room to work with

this was ruled by blizzard as "clever use of game mechanics"

Ghuldan had the time stop zones, which multiple classes could exploit to get infinite uptime on buffs

or for mdi/great push

mob snapping is basically a exploit

towards this

[tribal blade]

yeah this kind of thing does seem different, i agree with blizz there

it's not quite as egregious an exploit

[tribal blade]

i feel like if blizz really wanted to make snapping not a thing then the mobs full resetting once they evade from trying to snap should be a thing

[vale pine]

i think they banned certain things like snapping more in recent times

[vale pine]

the problem is

the adds spawned void zones

so by having none of them in the boss area

you had a massive amount of freedom in movement

basically think of it like this

any fight you play against the time where the room fills up

[tribal blade]

true, good point

[vale pine]

you discover a strategy to have the mechanic dissabled 50% of the time

suddenly you have twice the amount of time to kill the boss

if you think about it that way, it suddenly does seem like a exploit

i am not saying the decision was wrong here, the fight was incredibly hard even with the strategy

[keen dome]

The frog thing in Remix was their funniest, weirdest slapdash punishment.

People who did say, 2 - 3 hours of grinding getting the same punishment as people who did 200+ hours.

[vale pine]

or next xpac

bfa

everyone remembers zul

but most forgot just how many exploitation we had in that raid

e.g. mythrax

[keen dome]

What was the mythrax one?

[vale pine]

you had a stone everyone stand on so mobs spawned all in one place

magic stone

[keen dome]

Hahaha

[vale pine]

basically means you had to never deal with adds

because you could just nuke them

[keen dome]

I hadn't heard of that, but that's funny.

[vale pine]

ghuun is also why shadowstep got a lot of restrictions

because you had to run sides and could speed it up by using shadowstep

thats not rly an exploit, but it shows how fights can have long term effects on core spells of a class

just like feint got energy cost increases and a cooldown because it was used for multiple tiers as utility in legion

[keen dome]

Yeah

[vale pine]

shuriken storm was compretely purged because of one fight

or cheat death was massively nerfed multiple times

[keen dome]

Also how a single area of abuse can get something removed / restricted forever: Gliders in instanced content after the mad Rogue grind of Neltharus Lair..

[vale pine]

oh yes that too

or items you can shadowstep to

[keen dome]

Yeah

[vale pine]

i might or might not ended up being responsible for at least 2 of them getting banned

there is still one ^^

but point is, punishment many times ended up inconsequential

e.g. in bfa you had exploits you could abuse phasing to generate absurd amounts of certain items

this completely crashed the economy

and made a few people multiple gold caps within a short amount of time

iirc the players got banned for 24h to a week

but from what i know, they kept the gold

[keen dome]

I recall the worst offenders got rolled back but, I don't remember fully.

[vale pine]

possible

its too long away, i remember hearing from some that they made a LOT of gold and got not much punishment

[keen dome]

Yeah

[vale pine]

and this is a good trade off

you essentially can buy gametime and xpacs from it

for a short ban

and thats the problem

you have no clear ruleset of what falls under exploitation

and consequences can be non existent

e.g. the "exploit early, exploit much" isn't even a meme

iirc it was max but i could be wrong and it was one of the other raid leaders from top world ranks

but made the statement

"its easier to appologize than not exploit"

this was obviousely not ment to be used with a bit of thinking

but essentially is saying to exploit everything that falls in the in between area of "obviouse harmfull exploit" and "clever use of game mechancis / not big enough to be punished"

i think this has partly changed too because blizz gives them more ressources and direct contacts during the wfr

ideally you would have a clear framework you know whats allowed and whats not

it does not need to be perfect but good enough defined that you can judge the majority of cases by default

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's often very arbitary. I think the Frog thing in Remix is a good example of just how arbitary it can be.

[vale pine]

the frog farm was just a mistake on blizz end

they forgot to remove certain things from the drop table, and it became a extremely potent grind strategy

[keen dome]

It was also mirroring the actual player behaviour during MoP, which was funny.

[vale pine]

i also think the problem wasn't frog farm but the power level curves of the game mode

you gained months worth of grinding in a few hours

[keen dome]

But the punishment was a blanket reduction to everybod over a certain threshold, but the threshold was pretty low. So the guy who did it for 200 hours didn't feel it as they would've been so far in front. So it only impacted the very low grinders who did a few hours.

Really silly because it compounds "exploit early, exploit often" as the message isn't "I shouldn't have done that" but "I should've done that more"

[vale pine]

i didn't like the event

because of how power level worked

[keen dome]

I had fun, but the frog stuff soured me pretty heavily. I got hit by it and did very minor grinding on it. Then had a ton of stats taken away I'd gained in other areas outside of that grind.

[vale pine]

because there is just a certain conflict in it

you played the event to get currency for cosnetics

but in order to get them more efficiently, you need to grind currency

[keen dome]

Yeah

[vale pine]

so you had to spend your hard earned currency

[keen dome]

Having a single currency for both was such silly design.

[vale pine]

to be able to grind more currency

and this is why i didn't like the event

[keen dome]

Ye, I think it was a major flaw of it.

[vale pine]

you had a break even point

[keen dome]

The most optimal way to do it was to ignore the rewards you wanted until you were max iLevel.

[vale pine]

but e.g. my gf upgraded everything

and overall spend like 2 days more of /played

and in the end

had the exact same amount of currency

while i did little upgrades

having the upgrade form like this also did mean you couldn't participate in certain content types without enough upgrades

because you just died to regular raid mechancis

so even with 3 days /played or more

you didn't get enough thread or passive gains to e.g. do i think it was heroic even

[keen dome]

Ye

It was meant to be a power fantasy silly thing but for a while was just a grindy mess. I think they eventually got it into a very good shape though. Just.. eyah

[vale pine]

oh, my gf and others enjoyed it

but it also created a artificial wall

where you couldn't contribute enough to your group

so you ended up being boosted more or less if you did higher content

incentivising you to spend your currency on gear

or you wouldn't be allowed to do certain content

it is this weird obsession with gatekeeping thats all over wow

and as such is suddenly part of a completely for fun game mode

[cosmic cairn]

how much of a gain is it to use the ST as a second finisher in SoD windows?

I saw that you use it as a first finisher in dance sod while flag is on

i guess the main thing is hitting on supercharger right?

[vale pine]

you essentially use it like this

during flagellation

you finish first as secret

then during 2nd dance

when it comes up again

after that, you usually use it as 2nd finisher

you can do that easy by using symbols/dance already before secret comes up

[near rivet]

if you have both coup and sectec ready, you should go with sectec first thou

[cosmic cairn]

for cd reduc ye

[near rivet]

some people say that flawless form buff on sec tec comoensates it in terms of dmg

they might be right

personally, i like the cdr and they stays kinda aligned

[vale pine]

yes

you usually want to secret first

but then again, you can dance finish-strike finish

and get secret back on the first finisher

it gives you the option to not waste cdr on secret

which is your main limiting factor

[cosmic cairn]

also

before u start dancing again

do you let sod come of again?

the buff

[vale pine]

you usually refresh it within pandemic

so with 3 or less seconds left

of the buff

[cosmic cairn]

i meant it like

u have like 3 seconds of on sod

and you can start dancing again with the remaining buff of sod

i guess you just spend points and go dance sod in pandemic then

[shy ermine]

As long as you’re buffing a secret technique with supercharger you can sod when it’s in pandemic

[cosmic cairn]

okok

coz sometimes i got coup and my cdr was lining up really nicely

and was like if i should dance earlier

but i dont think it matters coz you cant fit more STs in between flags anyway

its like 4 or something

[keen dome]

Someone managed to take the M+ buff outside of a dungeon. Massive lagspike in Dornogal, and I got a stack of it, lmao.

I assume it has infinite range and is applying to every single player.

[sinful sluice]

this feels really handy on dawnbreaker

[keen dome]

Oooh that's clever

[sinful sluice]

if i had to go far away for this i lost so much dps

[lilac stag]

Yeah just jump down and step back

[vale pine]

nice trick

[shell lance]

What WA is this?

[tribal blade]

oh tf did they fix that, i tried doing it at the start of the season and i would get stuck down there

and have to run all the way around

[alpine wraith]

you have to step before hitting the ground

[tribal blade]

mmm i see

[alpine wraith]

or maybe it is an angle issue

will try it when i can from another side

[tribal blade]

eh i'm not having issues on that boss just placing it close to melee

that boss isn't really that hard

[vestal escarp]

Nah i drop and step back

Takes even a couple of seconds

[tribal blade]

they might have fixed it

because i had the same idea during week 1/2 of the season

and would legit get stuck down there not able to step back

[cold plover]

Nice heirloom weapon done for sub leveling

[haughty mural]

is the dungeon pool for season 2 finalized ?

*yet

[lilac stag]

No you don’t

[alpine wraith]

yea read above

[lilac stag]

Just make sure you’re back far enough for sight

[keen dome]

Don't think we've had any info about it at all

[lilac stag]

If you’re too close the wall blocks line of sight

[haughty mural]

just wanted to check if i missed smth

[keen dome]

It's gonna be ALL HALLS though

[haughty mural]

checking for trinkets

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade by chance are you playing a short race?

[magic ruin]

What are the chances sub gets buffed due to being so underrepresented in m+? Is it even that trash in m+ anymore? I just avoid griefing my group and go assa

[lilac stag]

Better chance assa gets nerfed

Sub isn’t griefing, it’s just not broken

[magic ruin]

oh yeah probably

[lilac stag]

No reason you can do 12-13 as sub. Idk maybe higher. I just fill vault and I’m quite happy with my overall

[haughty mural]

i'm not - i'm washed

[short radish]

12 cot with a wipe on 2nd boss

should be a bit higher

[haughty mural]

[short radish]

but yeah

sub feels nice

blowing up stuff with CDs

[haughty mural]

my enhance buddy blows stuff up while i'm in my cds

[short radish]

less rupture more blast

blow stuff up before he can

ecks dee

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/yoda-star-wars-learning-gif-14395199

[haughty mural]

maybe i get transmitter next week and match him

or i'll get it s2

[shell lance]

So for embellishment wrist belt or everforged dagger and nerubian dagger?

[brittle shard]

If you need dagger make dagger

Everything else is kind of a waste of crests

[lilac stag]

Most do a dagger for vers mastery and eventually makes for a good offhand.

[shell lance]

Or wait for the ansurek dagger

[fallow nimbus]

There is no endboss dagger

[shell lance]

Sorry i would say the ky’veza dagger

[fair anchor]

Ew haste on my dagger

[shell lance]

@vale pine i have check for the problem of the spell in the whisper and if i make a solo quest don’t make this problem but when I am in raid or dungeon yes i delete all weakauras and put a new weakauras

[vale pine]

oh, i thought it was a macro problem

[shell lance]

Probably

Shadow dance + thea and cold blood + another spell that i don’t remember are the two macro that i have @vale pine

[sinful sluice]

Which one? That tells boss patterns?

[shell lance]

Yes

[vale pine]

make sure

you don't have a space

before the /cast

[shell lance]

Ok i check but probably there is no space but i check @vale pine

[lilac stag]

That dagger is trash for sub, esp as offhand

[shell lance]

Ok thanks

[lilac stag]

You can use droptimizer, but from my foggy memory there are no vers/master daggers outside of pvp

the 639 is about a 10k upgrade over a 636 crafted as a Main Hand

[tribal blade]

yeah i'm playing a dwarf

stoneform op

but i can't stand the way it looks 😦

[shell lance]

@vale pine one shiv build for st or aoe or both is good?

[vale pine]

we don't play shiv on sub

sin can play with one shiv charge just fine

[arctic isle]

Is there any tips on how to deal with delayed shadowcraft procs? I've been missing some GCDs due to it

[keen dome]

Forgo abilities. Embrace fashion.

[tribal blade]

unfortunately stoneform is just way too busted

[shell lance]

I am dark iron dwarf sub 1 level and i am 80

One question about BRD when I am 80 all rewards in the vault I can reclaimed?

[sinful sluice]

Its bigwigs / littlewigs

[wraith granite]

1.64m dps? what sort of gear, aoe is that? that's crazy

Im in 588 and im happy if i can do 400k dps 😆

[lilac stag]

My guess is you can’t see boss with short race. Move out further or try ninja or pirate consumable.

My BE has no issue

In Dawn with the step on last boss.

[tribal blade]

oh my fucking god if that's the actual reason

i'm gonna scream

[lilac stag]

It’s like leap and grapple

You have to have some visual path

[tribal blade]

they really need to fix that

[lilac stag]

short fuck toll

Enjoy your stoneform

[tribal blade]

haha

well that boss isn't exactly difficult

so it's not really a big concern

[lilac stag]

sexy toon gets to jump around

[tribal blade]

my remix rogue is void elf

[keen dome]

It's very funny how model height is still a thing

[lilac stag]

but try it next time

[tribal blade]

wish that could be my main

i'll try it in a non score key

[vestal escarp]

Wait it works because im belf?

Belf privilege?

Lezgo

[tribal blade]

might have something to do with height

[vestal escarp]

[tribal blade]

because i have a race that's vertically challenged when i drop down i los myself from the boss

[lilac stag]

it works because you’re over .6 meters high

[vestal escarp]

Dwarf rerollers

[tribal blade]

laughs in stoneform 😉

[lilac stag]

that’s my educated assumption

[tribal blade]

you're probably right

oh r.io isn't updating keys with the new timer on challenger's peril

so it shows any key that's over the 1.5 mins every key has extra now as being over

i just discovered this looking at my sub IO

[vale pine]

some skips don't work on certain races

[tribal blade]

this 13 mists is technically timed

[vale pine]

i remember the court of stars skip not working on:

• gnomes and similar small races
• female undead

[tribal blade]

when are they going to remove racials from the game

i just want to be a good looking race again

[lilac stag]

Be a dragoon?

[tribal blade]

nahhhh void elf or belf 😉

probably void elf because my guild is alliance

[lilac stag]

I’m still BE since enchanting

[vale pine]

i think they should put the racials as togglers

can give some rly minor unique things to each

but both dps and utility should just be selectable

ob btw. just to mention this because we haven't yesterday

[slate marlin]

Undead supremacy

[vale pine]

the 11.0.7 zone is a unused bfa island

which actually means, all content in 11.0.7 is re-used content

[keen dome]

It can't be re-used content if it was unused!

It was never used!

[vale pine]

haha fair

[keen dome]

Aaaaaa

[vale pine]

got me there

[weak flame]

Hello, why do we evis first over rupture ?

[vale pine]

to apply slice and dice

[slate marlin]

Slice n dice

[weak flame]

oh ye makes sense

[vale pine]

from cttc

[weak flame]

thx

what are the rules for dance ?

[keen dome]

Arguably 11.0.7 has MORE unique, new content than 10.0.7 'cos of forbidden reach being in 10.0

[weak flame]

should i hold everything when flag is comming up under 30 sec ?

[vale pine]

you hold symbols for 25/30, other cooldowns it depends.

[lilac stag]

It was never used. If you have stuff developed that wasn’t put to use and can be this is a smart move. Allocate resources elsewhere.

[weak flame]

i guess i dont use dance / secret withouth symbol right ?

[vale pine]

i didn't say its bad to re-use content

[vale pine]

you won't

[lilac stag]

It was never used though. Lol

So how is it reused?

[vale pine]

point is

[lilac stag]

re-used implies a negative connotation.

[keen dome]

Majority of game development is re-use of assets because original stuff is super time intensive.

[vale pine]

the content was designed with diffrent design philosophies, years ago

[keen dome]

Like the Legion caves.

[lilac stag]

Recycled. Whatever you want to call it.

[vale pine]

so it might not fit the narrative or art style of the game anymore

[lilac stag]

a map got datamined… or was there more?

[keen dome]

If it was 1:1 I thik that's a good point, Fuu. But they made it pretty evident that it's had a load of work done on it.

[arctic isle]

still wondering if it's better to wait a bit before pressing another SS near 7 stacks or something else cuz replicant bug

[vale pine]

agree on that

[cinder axle]

Hey guys i have problems to get 3 stacks of escalating Blade before entering my shadowdance to get a buffed Coup into the supercharged window. Does it feel clunky for you too?

[keen dome]

You can look at the datamine and the footage in the trailer and it's clear they're using an old, never used asset as their basis. And actually incorporating that into it's story

[vale pine]

it is def. a cost saving method

[keen dome]

https://bsky.app/profile/marlam.in/post/3l7qqnncpq327 https://bsky.app/profile/keyboardturner.bsky.social/post/3l7rl7uxtey2t

[lilac stag]

We’re getting a ring. With gems. Re-used. Shadowlands coming back to haunt us.

[vale pine]

its more 10.0.7

or remix

choose your poison

[lilac stag]

I’m talking the gems of power

Kekw

[keen dome]

I personally think it's really good to see them using this stuff rather than letting it languish on a drive somewhere. Blizz also do little hackathons every now and then, and that stuff is eventually used in some form or other.

Like those bikes we're getting were probably from one of those.

[lilac stag]

Give me islands 🏝️ 2.0. Those were 🐐

[keen dome]

Game dev is super heavy on asset re-use 'cos it saves so much time. Making bespoke stuff is so time intensive.

It's why a lot of games use shared asset libraries for sound or physix interactions or whatever.

[vale pine]

think they have a lot of wod stuff too that got cut

they can re-use

[keen dome]

Yeah!

Just because something is in the files doesn't mean it's planned to be used. I imagine sometimes it's shoved into their internal build to see how it works and acts and then it goes into a corner for the future.

[lilac stag]

as long as they’re updating for current implementation of the game, let’s go. Use all the abandoned stuff.

[keen dome]

There was a pet added in DF that never showed up, and then in TWW it's just a random wild battle pet 'cos I presume someone threw it in as they had the assets

The TP is another exmaple of really clever asset re-use.

Really good place to throw random shit that never got used into the game for players.

It's no Dragon Age 2 though

With it's 1 cave.

[vale pine]

it is usual

for game studios to create content without a clear use case

[keen dome]

Ye

[vale pine]

to be used once they fit

[lilac stag]

old dungeons in m+ is reusing. Resurrecting unused assets I’m more than good with.

[keen dome]

Also, sometimes when artists are done with their current pipeline they'll make some cool stuff for fun.

No project to work, time to design a funky hat.

[vale pine]

i mean they also updated them, so its fine?

[keen dome]

I bet that's how the molemen hats got made

[lilac stag]

Debatable.

[vale pine]

why, i think its not too diffrent

[lilac stag]

we’ve run those dungeons enough already

We’ve never seen this content.

Very differnt

[slate marlin]

I love having old dungeons, doing the same 8 dungeons for 2 years was not it

[lilac stag]

Neither is a good option

[keen dome]

I like and dislike it. I think it's a better solution than just doing the same 8 for 2 years. but it's also very hit and miss.

[vale pine]

mythic+ only updates old dungeons

the more modern ones stay similar

[lilac stag]

reusing I think is the least of 2 shitty options

[keen dome]

Agreed

It's also just, again, good use of assets. Something WoW had been terrible with for over a decade was letting a huge amount of content just sit un-used.

Bringing old dungeons forward is a fun way to cut development time down, and keep it fresher.

[lilac stag]

But why can they not add 2-4 dungeons each season?

assets are similar to the current expansion

I rather that then all the effort put into a mega dungeon.

[slate marlin]

Agreed, i dont get why zereth or dream had no dungeon

[keen dome]

Megadungeon is effectively 'two' dungeons but ye I agree.

Legion was really interesting in that it added triumviate.

AND Karazhan as a MD

[lilac stag]

Ye

[vale pine]

they can do 14 dungeons a xpac, including a megadungeon

that was showed in legion

[keen dome]

Yeah

[lilac stag]

I know. That’s why I’m asking

[vale pine]

so 8 dungeons + 1 megadungeon

[lilac stag]

They don’t need to be 30-35 min dungeons either

[keen dome]

I imagine they have a general timeframe of building a single dungeon, and have figured that 8 is probably the 'sweet' number? but I'd love to know their process.

[vale pine]

they in theory can manage another 5 dungeons

[lilac stag]

A 20-25 min banger would be nice

[keen dome]

Dawnbreaker is a cool example of a smaller dungeon, actually

[lilac stag]

Yep

[vale pine]

the problem is, dungeons are deisgned diffrently now

[lilac stag]

Minus the bugs, dawn is a+

[keen dome]

Yeah

[vale pine]

so it might take longer to design one

also their team is probably smaller now

[keen dome]

I imagine it's a lot of work, yeah

[sinful sluice]

do we run trickster for all bosses now?

[keen dome]

But using a world space like CoT / Dawnbreaker is a cool idea and I bet that'd result in something cool if you had one per zone like that.

[vale pine]

what isn't rly a good argument, because wow has no reason to cut cost on devs

[vale pine]

yes, you can

[keen dome]

more money to the developers

[lilac stag]

nah. 65milli as a bonus to M$ CEO

[keen dome]

😠

[sinful sluice]

theres 2 versions right, does it really matter whether i take enhanced SS or not

[keen dome]

Give that bonus to whoever implements a posion toggle.

[lilac stag]

hahah

Double it to whomever fixes RS

[keen dome]

Haha

[vale pine]

thats a diffrent problem

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/priorities-priority-procrastination-procrastinating-sorted-gif-4172546768745853013

[keen dome]

It's part of the whle, imo. The priority of it always goes to the top.

The enshittification principle

[vale pine]

its more a design problem, where its possible to have pay raise disproportionally to the effort and responsibility

mostly a problem for the US

[slate marlin]

Tbf blizzard ultimate goal is profit

[vale pine]

but money that goes to ceo's is rarely something that would else be used to pay other workers

[keen dome]

I can talk at length about it, but it veers into current affairs and capitalism which probably makes it unsuitable for this discord. But also eat the rich etc.

[lilac stag]

Wealth distribution is very much a problem, but that’s got sooooo many other worldly issues attached to it.

[keen dome]

Pay developers more. They do the work and they make us fun hats.

[lilac stag]

profits never enough.

Cut labor is the lazy answer

[vale pine]

yes, but thats not a wow exclusive problem

[keen dome]

Enshittification. Every year must be a record breaking profit and therefor.....

[vale pine]

thats a cultural problem in the US

its unfair to point at blizz and say its their main problem

[lilac stag]

it’s not just here now

[keen dome]

It's an issue with capitalism globally.

[vale pine]

when many other game studios don't have this problem

besides similar structures

[lilac stag]

blizzard is a passion project. It’s like working for peanuts to help a small business except blizzard is a golden goose

[keen dome]

The pursuit of the maximum profit+1 will always result in examination of where to find it. Higher prices, worse products, less people working on them. All in the name of increasing the profit margin with no regard. For no reason!

[vale pine]

the entire industry has this problem

[keen dome]

Absolutely

[vale pine]

this is my point

[lilac stag]

any retailer as soon as sales are slightly down to unrealistic forecasting…. Labor cut 25%

[vale pine]

no need to point it out for spec specific if its not the deciding factor in quality

[keen dome]

When I worked retail, we were the most profitable store by a huge margin and they kept trying to cut stuff and staff to make us more profitable lmao

[lilac stag]

blizzard just has a way bigger warchest where they could be addding more development.

[keen dome]

Ye

[vale pine]

this is basically the blizz problem atm

[lilac stag]

self inflicted wound

[keen dome]

Pretty much, yeah. I'd always pick them taking more time over having the content now.

[slate marlin]

If the company always has record profit +1, then the ceo job is safe and investors are happy

[vale pine]

the company can produce quality but not in the quantity needed

so we now get content paced diffrently, less content even but more regularely

[lilac stag]

and I’m willing to guess, if they did better pay / retention they’d stop wasting time brining people up to speed on development practices effectively making the entire process smoother

Vs the bugged shit we have now

[vale pine]

in an attempt to frame things diffrently, to be able to extract more money

[lilac stag]

Imagine all the 11.0.5 raid bugs lasting this long in RWF

they stopped giving a shit after that was over

[vale pine]

11.0.5 is at the end of the day

still a irrelevant patch

if your class is good or op in the patch

unlucky

you likely get nerfed

[lilac stag]

I’m not talking specs. I’m talking actually bugs impacting mythic raiding

fix your fucking shit

[vale pine]

11.0.5 was a showcase of their problems of versioning

e.g. why wouldn't you sync chanegs between live and the ptr for the next patch

[lilac stag]

Just cause you’re not getting 200k streamer views don’t let it impact the raid community this much

[vale pine]

this comes back to bite them

because they had to port all changes back to the ptr version after release

[lilac stag]

I can’t wait for the coup bug to be back in 11.0.7

[vale pine]

it is why the outlaw bug everyone is so outraged about returned

[keen dome]

I'm really curious about that yeah

What will 11.0.7 bring.

[lilac stag]

Their project management still leave so many head scratching questions

[vale pine]

thats software development for you

[keen dome]

Super complex spaghetti made by sixteen different chefs and none of them are around.

[vale pine]

good projects are handled carefully and tooling is build to avoid mistakes

[lilac stag]

I would have been shit canned if I let this happen while I was a construction PM

[vale pine]

but for every "good" project there are like 1000 bad ones

and projects can go bad over time if not well maintained

because people keep adding stuff without considering impact on the system

[rain smelt]

Where is that from?

[vale pine]

it is just that gamers have a lower tollerance for problems

[lilac stag]

it makes me sad because I’m pretty sure none of the devs working there are just there for a paycheck

[vale pine]

quick sim, raidbots

[vale pine]

whats perfectly fine

[lilac stag]

but that’s just taking advantage of a persons passion, and eventually beats it out of them

[keen dome]

I'm sure everyone is doing their best, and working on a project they like a lot. And it's just.. complex, rushed, etc. But who knows. I just hope they're having some fun doing it.

[vale pine]

you need to realize that working at a game studio is as much a passion project than anywhere else

you are there to bring value to the company, and as long as you do your job mindfully i don't think your statement is any negative

[mint swift]

Maybe if blizzard didn’t lay of or do the things to most of their employees we would have QA

[vale pine]

i absolutely wouldn't want to spend most of my free time thinking about my job

[mint swift]

Yea, I get it but

When bugs have been around for a while it’s bad, games still fun so idm

But people getting DCed mid pulls (and having completly fine internet) is dumb

[vale pine]

or working overtime without pay or for little pay, just because thats a stigma that is looked up as good in society

[keen dome]

Yeah, that kind of worker mistreatment is awful.

[vale pine]

so yes

everyone works for their paycheck

not a negative at all

people blame qa layoffs, but i think it is more a problem of their tooling and development cycles

[keen dome]

Ye. One place I worked tried to condition us to be thankful for the company. Bad pay, but good 'benefits' so it was great! Also a big cultrue of "being a team player" lmao. Nah fuck that pay me.

[vale pine]

we see history repeat too much so to say

[mint swift]

But yea, the working environment needs to be good
And if people have to go into work scared about what will happen to them
What they make not being of quality isn’t their fault

[keen dome]

Def agree with tooling. Esp documentation and development 'bibles'

Like common design issues being well documented.

[vale pine]

e.g. a simple thing

we see again and again the same mistakes with spell data

a lot of that should be avoidable

you can do so in tooling or simply by putting a Notice or something

"whoever changes this spell field, MAKE SURE TO CHECK if you chanegd value x and not y"

[keen dome]

I think another good example is quest doodad design. Pick up 5 items. Each item is a shared spawn and has a 3 minute cooldown. Absolute bottleneck, terribly unfun. But it keeps happening.

[vale pine]

i quest a lot with my girlfriend

and if we quest

there is a high chance that the gameplay flow is interrupted because:

• There is a collect quest with already close to no items, you don't share progress.
• Quests might bug out at certain points.
• (lately) Npc's disappearing and only appearing again after you re-did the quest.

you sometimes need to leave the party to complete a quest, or relog/redo

it absolutely kills momentum

but i think thats less problematic

because its only a small part of endgame, and doing it in a group is a even smaller part of it

[keen dome]

I agree, it's less problematic but I think it's a good example of how they may lack a consistent guide or something

Common issues that should be 'solved'

[vale pine]

many problems should not come back

11.0.5 is just a shitshow

[keen dome]

Ye

[vale pine]

the raid was already laggy for people

the patch broke most encounters

and people try to find solutions to the problem

[lilac stag]

between rs bug and input lag in raid I swear I’m inting myself so many times.

[vale pine]

e.g. top guilds start to kick ALL socials out of their guilds

[keen dome]

Huh

[vale pine]

because of warbands, which cause lag if people use them a lot or relogg too much

for raid, e.g. transmitter trinket is assumed to cause disconnects on certain fights

so people start to ban the item

[keen dome]

Yeah, it was currency right?

[vale pine]

yes

yesterday

we also asked people to stop using the trinket

[keen dome]

I noticed if I do currency exchange, I cause my entire guild to lag and then the UI to push their login notifications immediately

[vale pine]

and we killed the boss after

without disconnects

but

[keen dome]

Weird

[vale pine]

because its like 1 boss/kill

is it rly transmitter?

or was it just coincidence

[keen dome]

Ye

Impossible to really tell

[vale pine]

and being in this situation sucks

[keen dome]

Speaking of MMO bugs. Did anybody ever play SWTOR at launch? It had some incredible ones.

[vale pine]

you shouldn't fight the game

[haughty mural]

i did

[keen dome]

Like the raid boss of the first raid just.. leaving.

[haughty mural]

this game was the definiton of unfinished

[keen dome]

He'd float off slowly in the final phase and despawn outside a wall.

[haughty mural]

had so much potential tho

[haughty mural]

i remember it

[keen dome]

It sticks in my memory 'cos it was so funny

[vale pine]

and its also incredibly hard for the dev team

image working on a project people feel negative about

[lilac stag]

@vale pine the apl stuff discussed in tc thread going back to 10/24. did any of that get pushed to live apl?

[vale pine]

because of technical problems

[keen dome]

Yeah, it must be really crushing.

Esp as bugs can be wholly unintentional or complex to fix.

[vale pine]

what specific one do you mean?

[lilac stag]

any of the stuff that was discussed. Not that much

[vale pine]

the change eciu mentioned for 0.2% dps

to bp