subtlety

[hazy breach]

Ye lmao youre actually right

[rugged ginkgo]

what a circus

[sage cloud]

Omfg i was wondering in Arena, Yesterday it felt much stronger

[swift tinsel]

ahahaha they're killin it with 11.0.5 fixes

so many strays from hotfixes

[marble quartz]

10 sec CDR is still working on evis tho

with supercharger

on secret

But dmg wise it's definitely bugged

[hazy breach]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[keen dome]

Lmfao seriously

[wind canopy]

Is it just eviscerate or sectec too? Guessing not on the latter

[sage cloud]

Is it already confirmed?

[hazy breach]

Sectech works

Just not eviscerate

Maybe bp too, idk havent checked

[alpine wraith]

oh no

[keen dome]

I'm going to hope it's fixed when I wake up tomorrow (it won't be)

[wind canopy]

Still, it’s not working on eviscerate…

[keen dome]

I wonder if it's just trickster evis?

[wind canopy]

AaaAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaAAAAAAaaaAaaAaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaAAAAAAaaaaaaAAAAAAAAaaaAaAaaaAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaAaaaaaaaaaAAaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAaaaaaAAAAa

[keen dome]

Does it apply properly on ds, maybe?

[uneven scarab]

[lone scarab]

was just on a dummy trying to see why it felt weird, and I know it's not perfect data but a super-charged and a non-super charged non-crit both hit for the same, around 240k

(evis I mean, full CP)

[half comet]

i have read there is a replcating shadows bug but unsure of what it is and why we run it in ST

[uneven scarab]

all the other options suck

basically

[wind canopy]

Scroll up. Or go here: #subtlety message

[viral phoenix]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[topaz egret]

Does sub feel good or bad now any based takes

[uneven scarab]

Sub feels good

i like

trickster ofc

[keen dome]

Feels really nice to play. Big sectec hits

[hazy breach]

Feels good for raid, still overshadowed by assa for keys

[uneven scarab]

Raid feels really good

[topaz egret]

Sub is unplayable in m+ as long as shadowcraft replicating exists

[uneven scarab]

[woeful egret]

I was doing keys yesterday and consistantly bursting 3-4m dps on trash pulls

around 1m dps for boss fights, felt pretty good in m+ to me. Sin is better, but I don't feel like I'm throwing anymore

[hazy breach]

This is a big global

I like big globals and i cannot lie

[uneven scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/buddy-elf-big-one-gif-27174870

[topaz egret]

DongerJ

[viral phoenix]

yo btw are hero talent rules around coup de grace / clear the witnesses still being played?

[gritty knot]

Sub in Keys is okayish but if u play with a ret or ele shaman or even both and u don't talk about timings of CD usage u will get fucked over easily by wasting CDs. Also If Tanks pull like idiots and completely unpredictable u ll get fked over too. But u can def play+11 and even some +12 s Keys as sub for sure. I did ++11 Ara and ++11 dawnbreaker as sub today and it was okay

[weary kite]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

we just noticed a kinda oh no bug on supercharger not working with evis

so uh

time to go to sleep and pray

[oak portal]

Bets on how long till blizzard fixes this

[alpine wraith]

it went from not working on shadowed to not working at all kekw

[gritty knot]

Nah this is not even funny anymore with all these Bugs...I am happy tho These idiots made millions by recycling an old model mount and give it a mailbox guy. That's all they Care about nowadays

[tidal furnace]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[novel plaza]

anyone have a macro where u macro SD and symbols together but doesnt spam symbols if i press it again?

[molten citrus]

They nerfed my new pvp build I’m crying

-# (this is a joke)

[alpine wraith]

yea they saw us blasting with our 60% nerfed finishers

and decided to just snap the tatlent from existing

[ruby portal]

back to stratagem build then

[hazy breach]

Surely this gets fixed

[molten citrus]

It was already bugged for Outlaw since patch launched

Was definitely working for Sub

And as far as I can tell it’s still working for Sin

[mortal bane]

G

[empty plume]

I saw a macro for this that uses castsequence and goes SOD -> null

And the null part of the sequence prevents a recast

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[empty plume]

Probably this just with a
/cast shadow dance
In front

[prisma herald]

This is related to shadowed stuff?

[hazy breach]

Well now the shadowed finishers from supercharger match what they should be

Because now neither the phys hit nor the shadow hit benefit from the +3 cp

[lilac stag]

Oof

[prisma herald]

Ohhh I see

[lilac stag]

Can’t have one fucking day

[prisma herald]

This was working earlier since reset too? Or has been broken like crackshot BTE supercharged too

[lilac stag]

It was working

[prisma herald]

Hmm

[molten citrus]

they aren't supposed to benefit?

[prisma herald]

How do things that work keep disappearing after hotfixed

[lilac stag]

Sarcasm

It’s all outlaws fault.

[prisma herald]

Definitely

[bleak wind]

oh no another fix for a different spec that somehow sub suffers for it

[prisma herald]

Scummy outlaws

[lilac stag]

Fucking degens

[fallow nimbus]

What advantages does the /cqs bring?

[prisma herald]

Let’s you swap your spell queue for something else

[pliant topaz]

dont worry it fucks outlaw too

[bleak wind]

justice

[prisma herald]

We always fucked nothing new

[bleak wind]

means it 'might' get fixed

[wraith sphinx]

lol

[prisma herald]

How’s sub with the dust free life

[brazen talon]

They work in Trigger the Bug again

[hazy breach]

Its good

[prisma herald]

Is it better in m+ since 11.05? Haven’t had the chance to play it yet

[woeful egret]

outside of supercharger being broken

ye

[prisma herald]

Damage wise and such

Trickster the m+ spec then?

[woeful egret]

it's viable to 8+ and beyond

[prisma herald]

Oh lol

[candid field]

outside opener do you evis before st to get another stack of danse macabre? or is it better to send st for cd?

so dont play around danse macabre

wasnt sure which did more

[sly shore]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sly shore]

@hazy breachhow many targets to bp as trickster

[hazy breach]

12 or something

Could be lower if you have like full fw uptime, but on average 12 is what the sim wanted

[steel horizon]

Wait.. so now when u cast evis with supercharger, you're essentially wasting the charge?

[hazy breach]

But thats also assuming you dont care at all about prio so

[pliant topaz]

i swear u just play trickster and never bp in like 5/8 keys. dea thstalker on 2. trickster + bp on a few

[mighty delta]

question - on wowhead i see the m+ build now takes tornado. Is the m+ opener more like "strike - evis - storm - flag - rupture - tornado - dance - CDs - Sectech - powder - powder" - etc.

because i see on the rotation page it doesnt utilize tornado

[umbral apex]

If supercharger isn’t working do we just take tea instead for now?

[woeful egret]

since patch i've noticed when you gain combo points the timing feels inconsistent, so I don't use it

[hazy breach]

Thats most likely due to replicating shadows

It makes the refunds from shadowcraft be able to be procced for the entire gcd after your spender instead of right as you finish

[woeful egret]

sometimes the combo points come back faster than I can spend them or what feels like twice as long

[hazy breach]

Yesnt, it doesnt work on the phys part

Yes

[woeful egret]

it's not a bug, it's a feature ok?

[steel horizon]

It doesn't work on phys nor shadow right so blowing evisc while supercharger active is just a waste im assuming?

[woeful egret]

small indie company doing their best tbh

[balmy anchor]

but you have a super mount for sale

🙂

[woeful egret]

cost more than the xpac

[balmy anchor]

and the next one also

KEKL

[woeful egret]

I bet that mount has bugs too

[steel horizon]

I wonder if it works with coup

[woeful egret]

I can buy it, but I'm not going to

[wind canopy]

I mean, you got supporter packs in POE that 200 times cost more than the entire game 🙂

[woeful egret]

I'd rather buy another game lol

poe is very good, when poe 2 comes out d4 might die alot

their dev team tries alot harder than most game companies

I don't think it's the devs specifically, it's executives and management that get in the way

devs don't make the rules, they just develop what they are told

no, they are doing just fine as long as people keep buying wow tokens and AH mounts

[civic orbit]

is elusiveness+bait and switch additive (1-0.2-0.2) or multiplicative (0.8 * 0.8)

is it 40% damage reduction on magic or 36%

[woeful egret]

pretty much, hate to say it but as long as share holders are happy they are winning. Bobby was bad for wow in many ways, but he grew the company profits year over year so he stayed

[wind canopy]

The latter, so yeah, a 1000 hit would be 1000 * 0.8 * 0.8 = 640

[civic orbit]

makes sense, thanks for confirming

[woeful egret]

you don't need one, just choose not to participate or accept what is

[balmy anchor]

I'm here for it

100% french blood

Assa feels so bad on Silken mythic

Idk if I keep play this or switch to sub

[wind canopy]

I swear some people make the weirdest fucking comments in here

[woeful egret]

buying and using their products despite your feelings is what keeps them in the positions they are in doing what they do

[mighty delta]

so we playing with tornado in m+?

[wind canopy]

You don't have to.

[woeful egret]

it costs less if you use the full year, but it also locks you in paying a full year instead of unsubbing in 3 months, you almost got played

[mighty delta]

im cool with it just wondering if we use it like last szn opener

[uneven scarab]

actually insane to finally feel whole for a minute just to get another bomb dropped literally the next day

typical

[woeful egret]

it did feel great

how much of a dps loss is the bug do we think?

it has to be substantial, juiced up evis is most of our dmg

[hazy breach]

2-3% if i had to guess

[woeful egret]

wasn't the estimated buff change roughly 4%?

I think the changes made it more playable in m+ which increased my dps alot personally

[rough geyser]

Went from hitting 3mill evis yday to 700k, whats poppin

[prisma herald]

If they were to fix it you would only be able to find out via testing if they did a stealth hotfix or is there a way to easily see this elsewhere? Having trouble keeping up with bug fixes without needing to constantly test stuff on dummies in dornagal every few hours

[balmy anchor]

A MILLI

[pastel rampart]

supercharger bugged out and potentially finality also (but needs testing)

[rough geyser]

Finality works

On the shadow dam part

KEKW

[hazy breach]

I'd recommend not testing on dornogal dummy because theyre silly and extra buggy

[rough geyser]

in pvp atleast

[hazy breach]

Nor valdrakken

[rough geyser]

I do more dmg without finality than with

Nahj also tested it on stream

And he says crit modifiers got messed up

Cos rn on live i hit more noncrit than crit

Normal sec tech hits around 1m, cold blood tech hits 600k

[pastel rampart]

OHHH i get it

[rough geyser]

Same with evis

[pastel rampart]

you clearly didnt buy the mount lmfao

[rough geyser]

HAHAHAHAHAH

[pastel rampart]

theres a 50% crit multi in the mailbox

[rough geyser]

i havent

i mustve forgot that fk

[woeful egret]

I like how intuitive it is, new players easily being able to understand that cold blood actually reduces your damange instead of increasing it

[rough geyser]

im gna go swipe my card hope to see my spec be nonbugged

I cant do the DF rework bugs again man

My mental cant handle that

[hazy breach]

Fwiw the finality and cold blood stuff is only pvp. Its obv still fucked that it happens but you know

[rough geyser]

im gna reroll feral man

[woeful egret]

peekaboo did already

[pastel rampart]

yea we just play the minigame smoge

[rough geyser]

dropped from 2400 shuffle cr to 2200 cos my spec does damage from last xpac now

love to see it

[mental comet]

pvp

[weary kite]

Does feint work on Kyveza dash?

[prisma herald]

no but you can cloak it

to immune queenbane entirely

feint will work on regicide though

very good for intermission

[wispy bolt]

why am i doing so much less damage than tuesday

ur joking

bug or intended>

[hazy breach]

It doesnt buff shadowed finishers

it just doesnt work on evsicerate

[wispy bolt]

wait so it just doesnt work>

?

[woeful egret]

it works just fine

[hazy breach]

It doesnt do the extra damage on eviscerate

[woeful egret]

it just doesn't biff your damage

[hazy breach]

(this is a new bug they added today after fixing the coup bug)

[wispy bolt]

does it work for ST, Rupture and BP?

[daring dawn]

Hey sorry if it's a very general question but why this patch are rogues outlow doing like 2m or more in single target? Thanks in advance

[hazy breach]

Yes

[wispy bolt]

is this just crossfire from outlaw hotfix?

[hazy breach]

They exploited and a bunch of them are getting banned for it

[daring dawn]

Oh thanks I thought it was weird doing 4m in ovinax or 2.3 in sikran

[tulip trail]

99 bugs in the rogue
99 bugs in the rogue
Take one down and patch it and then
137 bugs on the rogue

[delicate ridge]

[wispy bolt]

what are the odds it gets fixed HAHA

[hazy breach]

Decently high

[trim ridge]

Since the bug takes dmg away instead of giving it we will get it fixed in 10 years

💀

[tulip trail]

Nah they'll get to it in 5 weeks just like the 4 set logs in s4.

[wispy bolt]

It nuked my dps by over 500k on brood

Im playing the exact same doing so much less damage

[trim ridge]

Dont tell me that

Fuuuu

[hazy breach]

** NEW BUG FOUND **
The +3 combo points from supercharger does not buff the damage of eviscerate (you still get the CDR, it just does damage as if it was a regular eviscerate). Hopefully it gets fixed quickly but in the meantime you should probably use your non-secret technique supercharger on Coup de grace or rupture if its refreshable.

It still works on rupture, secret technique, coup de grace and BP. Just not eviscerate.

[wispy bolt]

Not having it for coup seems to be so substantial

[hazy breach]

I guess i can word it differently, i dont mean rupture during dance

I mean symbols > rupture > dance

[trim ridge]

dw guys it will be a whole ass month before we get a fix, but hey new 78 euros mount!!

thtats why i pay my sub

letsgoo

[molten flare]

When has a negative rogue bug been fixed within a day?

Im saying 2 weeks

[woeful egret]

what if they hotfix it tonight?

$240 to fix a bug, I wonder if blizz will just put that request in the store for future

[trim ridge]

everytime i see the price something inside me dies

i swear

[woeful egret]

community goal, if players "buy" enough it will be fixed

[vestal escarp]

if only

[trim ridge]

fixin bugs? na, implementing mounts? fuck yes

[woeful egret]

think about all the idiots who farmed 5 mil gold to buy the other one

[trim ridge]

how much less damage gives this bug?

10%?

[trim ridge]

imagine

[woeful egret]

laughs in rich person

[trim ridge]

and 5 million gold is actually for than 80 euros

wuth 1 million gold u buy 4 tokens and buy the mount

[candid field]

i feel like most didnt farm the gold but bought wow tokens or 3rd party gold

[steel horizon]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/45jXwVakCqq64W5EHWQG3r

someone wanna tell me why scroll of momentum is still my best simming trinket?

[tulip trail]

I mean the 90 dollar mount isn't as greedy as they could be. At least they didn't announce a 30 dollar mount bundle right after... oh wait.

[short radish]

what the flying fuck is wrong with blizzard holy shit

how are these bugs a thing

[woeful egret]

diablo 4 had a ton of bugs too with spiritborn, I wonder what's going on at blizzard

[short radish]

i farmed atal dazar leather for like 2.5 months

3-4x a day

im so madge right now

[woeful egret]

I didn't mean to offend you

[short radish]

(i'm also buying the new one)

[woeful egret]

but I can't help but mention it lol

[short radish]

dont worry blizzard already offended me

[trim ridge]

i mean it would be easier to farm this one

[short radish]

on one hand i get it

on the other hand

[trim ridge]

oh wait token skyrocketed mysteriously

[short radish]

they said

[trim ridge]

LMAO

[short radish]

limited edition

[tidal python]

this seems very low for the ilvl

[trim ridge]

shit was 270k yesderday

[woeful egret]

forget the mount, I'm buying wow tokens

[short radish]

do you know how fucking annoying it is to walk 15 seconds from the crafting station to the mailbox?

[steel horizon]

its a target dummy sim. all buffs disabled

[molten citrus]

it's been going up like 20k/hr on NA

[trim ridge]

HAHAHAHA

how does that even work

[tidal python]

oh that makes more sense

[molten citrus]

tokens are supply and demand. they can sell out.

[trim ridge]

ppl buying tokens to get shop items ig

[short radish]

yeah that one guy who bought all the tokens for diablo4

[woeful egret]

it's only 257k in na right now

[short radish]

for now*

[trim ridge]

it was like that yesderday on eu

a scarablord with the new mount

[steel spindle]

[trim ridge]

also the mount is pretty unique ah plus mail is like

fucking amazing

[short radish]

well its 50% unique

like i said

i hate walking to the mailbox

at the crafting station

[pliant topaz]

@leaden prairie any updates on the ban? ive been waiting

[lethal thorn]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[trim ridge]

just add crafting station to the mount and make it 100 euros

😎

[short radish]

do not give them ideas

please

we know devs read this

[leaden prairie]

idk continue waiting i gues

s

[short radish]

they might not action everything but they do read it

[wind canopy]

Did you get banned?

[trim ridge]

doubt it a lot of documented bugs that didnt get fixed

if they really read this they are ignoring it then

XDD

[leaden prairie]

not yet

[hazy breach]

Why did blizzard give us a shiny new lego figurine (supercharger) and then after a day turn it into a playmobile figurine so its no longer compatible with my toys

Atleast they couldve released it bugged to begin with so we didnt get attached

[trim ridge]

playmobils were fun!

: )

HAHAHAHAHHAA

you are my idol

[leaden prairie]

im not crazy tho

it worked before right

[hazy breach]

Yes

[leaden prairie]

trickz was saying it never really worked on dispatch/evis

but i dont htink torough tests were done

[hazy breach]

Or well, atleast im 100% sure it did on ptr

Lemme check a log

[leaden prairie]

i se

e

well i knew what to expect

but im still disapointed

[hazy breach]

No

[leaden prairie]

at least it works on cdr and stuffs like that

so there is that

cant complain right

honeslty im more surprised they managed to have all the interactions work (cdr/ruthlessness/ace proc chance)

and not the basic thing of just doing damage

but oh well

[tribal blade]

finally timed a 12 SV, the nightmare is over

with a tank single pulling trash

yeah

[trim ridge]

he is the chosen one

[tribal blade]

we chatted after, he agreed he needed to pull bigger

as sin 😉

iron wire is really good in SV

[trim ridge]

a traitor in the mists!

[tribal blade]

REALLY good

i'm not going in the sin channel

sub channel has all my homies

[molten citrus]

it worked on evis

day 1 for sure 100%

[leaden prairie]

eleem

are you here cuh

[molten citrus]

i started seeing that evis was doing less dmg yesterday

from people

[hazy breach]

ye

[molten citrus]

but i didn't test until today

[leaden prairie]

why the delay on blades

[hazy breach]

You have premed anyway, so blades doesnt do anything

Gotta use as much of flag as possible

[leaden prairie]

oh i see you are right

[rugged ginkgo]

should you not still press it before sectec?

[gentle temple]

!wa

[hazy breach]

Doesnt matter

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[hazy breach]

Blades doesnt work on sectech, never has

[trim ridge]

huh

really?

xd...

[molten citrus]

lmfao

[trim ridge]

but sec tech is one of our bigges font of damage

and its not fixed....?

[leaden prairie]

I like that opener, start fast

very cool

me i like fast

[hazy breach]

Yep except on ansurek i instead get this banger of an opener > go

So i can have vanish for web

[leaden prairie]

oh ye

[wind canopy]

[leaden prairie]

i dont like that opener cuh

very slow

im a sub main again now

[hazy breach]

And i also cant really time the transmitter pickup well if its not jump

[wind canopy]

What happened with outlaw?

[hazy breach]

Since the web comes immediately afterwards

[wind canopy]

@leaden prairie

[hazy breach]

Not really a fun boss ngl

[leaden prairie]

i cant kill nw third boss

and mist first boss

as outlaw

[wind canopy]

Mmm yeah...

[leaden prairie]

keys are too high for me to play outlaw on these bosses now

[wind canopy]

RIP in pepperinos

[leaden prairie]

so do the start of mist as sub, swap back outlaw after boss

and for nw i swap before the 2 crafters dude at the top

[trim ridge]

is outlaw that bad? xdd

[leaden prairie]

and do the end of the dungeon as sub

[leaden prairie]

on these type of things ye xd

outalw = deplete

but also its just a thing of high keys

[wind canopy]

Game's changed

[leaden prairie]

you prolly have other specs that cant deal with these bosses

but if i play sub i can carry so

if i play outlaw i need the other 2 dps to carry

and i play with bad people

so this wont happen

[tribal blade]

i saw casual doing that

[leaden prairie]

ye casual always copying me smh my head

[tribal blade]

haha!

[leaden prairie]

you will see him on outlaw soon no cap

[tribal blade]

uncap BF

and you'll see him playing pirate

[pastel rampart]

they just pushed some changes to BRD, can someone do a check to make sure this doesnt break another 4 rogue talents

plsthx

[fierce cliff]

u can vanish opener do gnome cloak gnome and vanish 4th

[tribal blade]

oh so this bug with evis+supercharger must be quite a big loss in damage

[short radish]

but when its fixed

stonks up

in time to get a nerf

[sweet summit]

surely its fixed soon yes

[short radish]

2 months? thats pretty optimistic

[leaden prairie]

you can play outlaw and vanish first vanish second vanish third and vanish 4th

let me know what you think of the rotation

[sweet summit]

pls tell me they know about it

[tribal blade]

honestly gonna be interesting to see when the bug gets addressed

i can see blizz just not doing anything

[sweet summit]

: (

[tribal blade]

yes

which is why it's in the realm of possibility they straight up leave it like that the entire expac

[sweet summit]

: (

this shit is sad

surely its fix soon

[uneven scarab]

does recoup work yet

?

[tribal blade]

but i think it's a bigger bug than replicating

[leaden prairie]

outlaw have huge gameplay bugs that were never adressed since s3

[tribal blade]

so it might get addressed

[leaden prairie]

i wouldnt be surprised

[tribal blade]

no way, which bugs?

[leaden prairie]

like you cant restealth during subterfuge

adr will tick down

and crackshot will stop working

[tribal blade]

oh that's cursed

[leaden prairie]

mega cursed in m+

also now adr break stealth

because they tought that would be funny

[tribal blade]

yeah losing adr is really big

[leaden prairie]

combo of these 2

is quite fun

[tribal blade]

HAHA no way

omfg that's so bad

ok that's way worse than replicating bug haha

replicating bug is more annoying than anything

but still playable

i think an issue with sin right now is DS

you can just lose your mark randomly right now

[leaden prairie]

ye i mean i understand its annoying to have these type of bugs, but in the end it doesnt impact gameplay its just damage

[tribal blade]

it's happened to me a few times

[leaden prairie]

which im more fine about

damage can be tuned around anyway

I just really have bugs that impact gameplay

even if the impact to your damage is null

[tribal blade]

losing adr sets off a chain reaction around the entire outlaw rotation

huge loss

[leaden prairie]

ye iu mean you can play around it, like if you break stealth you wait till subt expire to restealth basically

so you stand there

or you just insta go pack with a scuffed subt

depends

but ye

no fun

nono

[tribal blade]

i hate it when i get pulled out of stealth randomly

[leaden prairie]

ye

[tribal blade]

like when you enter a new maze room in mists

[leaden prairie]

something with shaman

heal

[tribal blade]

that bug is still there

[leaden prairie]

break stealth rn

[leaden prairie]

really

doesnt break me out

maybe its cause i have subt and you dont ?

[tribal blade]

not as much as before, but it's happened a few times at the start of the season

[leaden prairie]

its diffferent

[tribal blade]

they might have fixed it

because i don't remember it happening recently

[leaden prairie]

ye idk doesnt happen to me

[trim ridge]

when the tirna scythe laberynth mobs spawn

[tribal blade]

or different talents yeah

[trim ridge]

and break stealth

a classic

[leaden prairie]

oh but maybe its cause mobs spawn earlier now ?

like when you are close to a door they are already spwaning

[tribal blade]

i'm not sure, maybe it has to do with when you enter the new maze room

[trim ridge]

yep

u have to be spaced

like a dumbass

[leaden prairie]

back in sl it was when mob spawned

but now idk ?

[tribal blade]

if you enter before the mobs spawn it does seem like you get broken out

[leaden prairie]

i never got it to broke this season

[tribal blade]

now that i think about it i tend to hang back and wait for the mobs to spawn now before entering

that's prob the fix

[woeful egret]

it happend to me yesterday in pvp

I was following a group of the alliance and randomly I unstealthed then get ganked

[trim ridge]

i swear

on pvp it breaks randoml

a lot

[woeful egret]

my feral druid's stealth works great though

[trim ridge]

i dunno

[molten citrus]

certain abilities randomly break stealth

for feral too

[woeful egret]

if it does, I never noticed it or it hasn't happend enough for me to be annoyed with it

[tribal blade]

btw do we have any more confirmation about fazed parry debuff applying for the entire raid

[hazy breach]

It does work

[woeful egret]

sick, rogues have an external cd for tanks now

[tribal blade]

yeah i was planning to go sin for kyveza, but since this is a thing sub might be better

[trim ridge]

wow token almost 400k on eu

token goes brrr

[woeful egret]

We can't afford anything in the US, so prices are rising slower

[trim ridge]

wish i bought some tokens with gold before the jump

would be profiting rn

[molten citrus]

New supercharger bug actually makes sub unplayable in pvp

Super fucked

[woeful egret]

just switch specs to feral, you'll be alright

[molten citrus]

Bro

I already did that

Wanted to keep playing sub after the patch

It was actually better then feral for a whole day

[trim ridge]

was supercharged played in pvp? the builds i saw didnt take it

[molten citrus]

It was. Don’t know what builds you saw

[woeful egret]

they should have

[trim ridge]

ig they werent updated

[molten citrus]

Sub is basically unplayable without it

[trim ridge]

to the 11.0.5

[woeful egret]

it was busted, getting hit for 3-4mil evis in pvp was stupid

[trim ridge]

felt weird to me

[trim ridge]

wait

[molten citrus]

You mean my old pinned builds?

[trim ridge]

evis was hitting hard?

[trim ridge]

nah iirc it was icy veins

[molten citrus]

I was hitting 5.5m

[woeful egret]

omg was it hitting hard

[trim ridge]

might have trolled going there

yikes

[woeful egret]

I was playing in bgs and every rogue was killing people in cheap shot lol

[molten citrus]

Yeah usually with pvp you can’t trust sites or YouTube

[trim ridge]

well when it gets fixed it will go back to that right=

[molten citrus]

Either get it from a r1 streamer or maybe in #pvp

[woeful egret]

maybe blizz stealth nerfed it because sub players were starting to be happy

[trim ridge]

yea was gonna check but since i was focusing on pvee i didnt bother lol

will check

[molten citrus]

No

[stark zealot]

Hey guys! just leveling my rogue to 80 . how does sub size up to other melee in raid and M+???

[molten citrus]

Hopefully, unless they throw in a nerf with the fix

[trim ridge]

wasnt pre supercharger sub kinda low on dmg?

[molten citrus]

Low overall, somewhat decent burst

[trim ridge]

rememberbefore arenas came out i played a lot of bgs and damage was underwhelming

idk

[molten citrus]

But you had Dust so it was still kinda cracked

[trim ridge]

true

[molten citrus]

Utility was very good

Now you’re kinda forced to play Supercharger and Flag

[trim ridge]

wait

flag in pvp?

LMAO

[molten citrus]

Yes

[trim ridge]

pve spec pog

[molten citrus]

How else are you going to hit 5m evis

[woeful egret]

flag did feel weird to pick

[trim ridge]

fuck i'll have to hit some friends and come back to pvp

well not now

since it doesnt work

xd...

[molten citrus]

It just takes getting used to

We used it for a time in SL when the shit gave haste

[trim ridge]

I REMEMBER THAT

after kyrian got gutted

spitte

spitted and thrown to the ground

[molten citrus]

Yeh

SL was a wild ride

[trim ridge]

went from hitting 18k to 2k

[short radish]

[trim ridge]

whata a fucking nerf

[trim ridge]

stonks

[molten citrus]

Can you really just buy tokens with gold and hold

[woeful egret]

but when it worked it was fun oneshotting people left and right every 45 seconds

[trim ridge]

guys imagine a buckler rapier type spec who can tank

[molten citrus]

Then resell with no penalty

[trim ridge]

would be fun

[molten citrus]

?

[trim ridge]

yep

[hazy breach]

Pretty sure you cant sell it

[trim ridge]

a lot of ppl buy tokens at the start of an exp

and sell them iirc

[molten citrus]

Well that isn’t asking for abuse lmao

[woeful egret]

not too loud, blizz might tax unrealized gains

[silent geode]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[molten citrus]

You can’t resell them for gold?

[hazy breach]

I dont think so, but i could be wrong

[trim ridge]

you can

since u can buy tokens adn exchange them for gold

[molten citrus]

In osrs they tax people that do that

Hard

[trim ridge]

no tax here

[molten citrus]

But it’s still profitable if you do it right

[wind canopy]

Talking OSRS… #off-topic

[hazy breach]

A token costs 15€ though and you only get 13€ for using it

[trim ridge]

costs 20 euros

not 15

[molten citrus]

I’m talking about buying for gold and reselling for gold

[hazy breach]

Then its even worse

[molten citrus]

Just to merch gold gains

[trim ridge]

the idea is buying them with gold

not real money

[hazy breach]

Well ofc

[trim ridge]

euro to gold ratio is pretty bad most of the time

uncless the token is at 600k

which sometimes

happen

[crimson dagger]

are sims accurate for mad queen's mandate and void reaper's contract?

[hazy breach]

Yes, sims are accurate

Bloodmallet isnt, because its running without talents

[crimson dagger]

kk passing on the mandate

[trim ridge]

mandate is still beter than contract

isnt it?

[hazy breach]

Not really

Theyre about the same

[trim ridge]

huh

the more u know

ive both

which is higher tho

[crimson dagger]

id sim it but probably contract

[buoyant dust]

I can’t tell with all the chaos of this patch but it looked like sub was in a above mid spot for once for pve? Will that be the case after the dust settles?

[trim ridge]

maybe

[hazy breach]

Idk depends on how the dust settles.

[trim ridge]

mages are still configuring their heads around the new rotations

we are too

[hazy breach]

There was an exploit that some used that made it look way better than it is

And then when they fixed the exploit they also bugged supercharger

[inner glen]

sub now viable?

[short radish]

dust has been deleted from the game with the new patch

[hazy breach]

Hopefully they fix supercharger not working with evis, if so then were definitely good

Were probably alright even without it, but it would absolutely suck to have to game around that

[buoyant dust]

I see, well thank you for all the replies. Time will tell.

[woeful egret]

before bug I thought for sure I wasn't playing sin anymore

[trim ridge]

how much dps do we lose on that bug?

[ornate berry]

Sub feels better post patch, Death Perception+Rotten feels so nice

[hazy breach]

My guess is around 3%, possibly up to 4%

But its mostly gameplay wise, feels really ass to not use the superchargers on evis

[sweet summit]

feels good now we just need tuning to fix this bug

[hazy breach]

And have to either use them on rupture or coup

[buoyant dust]

This patch has been a mess.

[ornate berry]

o thats cooked

[sweet summit]

yea

surely this bug is fixed among the hundreds of other new bugs right

: )

[buoyant dust]

I’m just a casual Andy these days but it’s still half deflating half hilarious to watch

[ornate berry]

That explains some Evis hitting like noodles

[hazy breach]

The frustrating part is that it was working before today

[sweet summit]

yepp

felt good

real good

[hazy breach]

Or well

[delicate ridge]

Well yea fix 1 bug create 10 more repeat till you have sub rogue

[hazy breach]

Mostly working

[woeful egret]

"mostly" except the part that was good

[hazy breach]

It didnt work on shadowed finishers evis, but thats better than not working at all

[hazy breach]

The phys part is the main hit

[trim ridge]

huh

[ornate berry]

You cant triple Sec Tech in Flag/Blades anymore can you

[trim ridge]

nope

[ornate berry]

thank god

was fun but way too cooked, any lag was so bad for that

[sweet summit]

wow when more than 5 characters on screen

[hazy breach]

How you'd expect it to work:
Baseline: 100 dmg evis ~44 shadow evis
Supercharger: 143 dmg evis ~63 shadow evis

How it actually worked:
Supercharger: 143 dmg evis ~44 shadow evis

How its right now after the bug:
Supercharger: 100 dmg evis ~44 shadow evis

[wind canopy]

[hazy breach]

The same bug applies to a ton of other stuff like follow the blood, symbolic victory and darkest night

Where it only buffs the phys part and not the shadow part

[sweet summit]

[hazy breach]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e2w0iHBCVp8K7hdSk1T8RKtUK9lr4FsRqFWd68FCQnk/pubhtml?gid=579089422&single=true
Heres a list with bugs

Although they did fix flensing knives, so i can remove that

[craggy quest]

but added a new one

:)

[civic swallow]

Deathstalker or Trickster for Queen?

[hazy breach]

Trick

Any form of cleave generally means trickster

[dire geyser]

How much weaker is sub compared to assa on brood M

[hazy breach]

Quite a bit

[trim ridge]

why make evis

phys and shadow

and make modifiers not work with part of it

[hazy breach]

Assa is just really insane on brood

Pretty good aoe but insane boss damage from funnel

Assa is the funnel spec

[dire geyser]

[astral dagger]

are the 2 cantrip daggers from BRD worth it?

[hazy breach]

Nop

Nothng in brd is worth chasing after

[trim ridge]

thats sad

[lucid jackal]

Its p good for alts

theres some hero track gear, just on a vendor

Might be "bad stats" or whatever but its kinda nice early

[crimson dagger]

currently for sub are still doing a naked symbols after cd's? or are we linign up one symbols with every dance?

[lucid jackal]

You line up Symbols with Sectec

If you have dance, you also dance

[wispy bolt]

Is there a blizzard forum post / bug report for supercharger + evis?

[lucid jackal]

Working on getting it fixed

Does anybody have logs or screenshots of it

Does it always happen

Or is it only sometimes

[molten citrus]

always

it feels like more than supercharger is bugged

like more damage is missing than just that

[trim ridge]

its funny how 10cp evis now hit less percentually than 5p evis 10 years ago

[molten citrus]

my evis are doing like 60-70% less damage on physical hit

[wispy bolt]

it affects coup as well I believe (as it’s just evis)

Feels like it at least

[molten citrus]

like 5-6m evis are doing 2m now

[woeful egret]

oh wow, I just tested it and I'm bursting 1m less dps than I was yesterday on the 5 target dummies lol

[molten citrus]

something else has to be broken

[trim ridge]

fuck hope its fixed before raid weekend

or i'm going to goof around

[wispy bolt]

I was doing 500k-1M less dps on brood in raid

[woeful egret]

omfg I used flag and blades too, I was doing more than what I just did without cds lol

[crimson dagger]

gotcha and otherwise just line up one dance with each symbols? sorry just having a tough time wrapping my brain about all the changes

[gilded ferry]

im kinda having a hard time tracking when to use a naked symbols or hold

is there any tip for that?

[lucid jackal]

Okay am I stupid

The damage on evis seems, proper?

How do I see its wrong

[woeful egret]

just did this, 1 dance

my ilvl is a little low though, 517

[molten citrus]

my supercharged evis do literally the same damage as non supercharged

the physical dmg

[gilded ferry]

oh, yeah thank you

but which one is the best one to follow though

guy said to follow sectec

all this while holding 2 charges for flag, right?

[woeful egret]

lmfao I untalented supercharger

[gilded ferry]

gotcha

that thing before the 21s of flag

i do not use a dance

ok

seems easier to me

[molten citrus]

@lucid jackal

thats supercharged

that's non supercharged

with no other modifiers

only 3% from symbols

that's no crits, no dance, no nothing

supercharged did less dam

lmao

brother i don't pve

ofc there's logs

i haven't combed through logs in like 2 years

i don't plan to start now

[woeful egret]

you could probably look at the website

[sinful sluice]

Hotfix came out

[trim ridge]

fixed ds

but not evis

LMAO

[woeful egret]

too bad the issue isn't deathstalker's mark

[uneven scarab]

i have tuesday logs

[trim ridge]

gonna sleep

wish tmrw is fixed

[uneven scarab]

in raid atm

[mental comet]

Rip flensing

[sinful sluice]

Wait evis is bugged?

Why is there so many bugs this patch

I mean we pay to play this game and server lag just makes unplayable and theres like 3M bugs

[lucid jackal]

Evis fix will be soon

It's not cope

[molten citrus]

[lucid jackal]

U wanna bet?

I mean tbf this bug doesn't really do anything

It's just damage right

The CDR portion works properly

It's just ur evis is doing less than it should

well I mean

If u aren't doing damage now it feels like more of a u problem

[molten citrus]

it's hyperbad for my minigame

[woeful egret]

in m+ I was bursting over 3 mil on pulls as sub, it was beautiful

[molten citrus]

and all the store mogs

i'll drop a stack

[woeful egret]

trash pulls*

I had a big shit eating grin on my face the entire time I was playing lol

I did this run as a test as sub and felt special

[lucid jackal]

Idk if itll be tomorrow but soon tm

[gilded ferry]

i mean

guy raided queen with sub like these

so is stealthi

so

its ok

[molten citrus]

this bug started today

[lucid jackal]

I also cranked the boss

With all these negative bugs

[gilded ferry]

stealthi was raiding today too

but i think he was using a dif node?

idk

ohhh no, i believe the bug he was referring earlier was with DS

[molten citrus]

i think Symbols damage buff might be fucked as well

in those ss i posted earlier i did less damage with Symbols active

[viral phoenix]

for st between cds i've been getting about 1 dance + symbols + sec tech, 1 sod + sec tech, then 1 naked sec tech about 20 seconds before flag

ddoes that sound about right

[gilded ferry]

naked sectec?

[lucid jackal]

I think u guys are thinking too hard about sub

You line up Symbols with Sectec
If you have dance, you also dance

send 2 symbols 2 dance with cooldowns

That's the spec rn

[viral phoenix]

hypothetically if u get good cp return u can naked sec tech ~ 25 seconds before flag though right

but obvi if u use symbols u wouldnt have 2 for the cd windows

[leaden prairie]

im ngl new sub kinda have a good flow

[spark tusk]

so you're saying. cooldowns make sense now?

I'm just now looking into sub after the changes, looks neat

[leaden prairie]

im mad they stole our newly found niche of having on demand damage whenever we wanted tho now that you have charges on everything

[crimson dagger]

?

[pliant topaz]

not really true for trickster. but close enough for deathstalker

[viral phoenix]

im not crazy that we sec tech naked every now and then with trickster right

or is that cooked

[pliant topaz]

we do

[viral phoenix]

ha! cool

[spark tusk]

Is cb still macroed to sectec?

gotta be

[lilac stag]

Yes

[pastel rampart]

so the fix to darkest night + supercharger doesnt mean anything for normal evis + supercharger right?

still BUGGED

[crimson dagger]

gotcha thanks i can figure it out doing that any idea how many charges of symbols and dance we want at to go into flag and blades with?

[lucid jackal]

whats not true?

[rigid quail]

do we still use Symbols on cd?

[crisp pond]

when are the hotfix going through anyone know?

[sinful sluice]

rip old brutosaur users

[pliant topaz]

u dont always sod if u can. u dont always dance on sods. u do send naked sectechs. theres some consideration of how to play with coup in mind etc

but close enough

[crisp pond]

im awarre of that but they already posted they adressed it

but

it didnt change shit

lol

we all are waiting for evis to be fixed and when they fix there just gunna nerf us tuesday

everyones gunna go back to crying

because sub has damage again lol

[lilac stag]

just wait for assa nerfs

[lucid jackal]

Can u go into detail on the specifics cuz thats what I did for queen

[molten citrus]

the posted hotfixes are in already

[crisp pond]

Here you'll find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to World of Warcraft: The War Within, Cataclysm Classic, Season of Discovery, WoW Classic Era, and Hardcore. Some of the hotfixes below take effect the moment they were implemented, while others may require scheduled realm restarts to go into effect. Please keep in mind that some issues cannot be addressed without a client-side patch update. This list will be updated as additional hotfixes are applied.

is what blizz just posted

[molten citrus]

this should already be in according to whispyr

idk if sub was dealing with the same Deathstalker's Mark bugs

it doesn't fix Supercharger evis damage

it's just fixing the combo point interaction

and the Mark/Darkest Night bug

at least they're fixing stuff

and not letting us play with it for the entire expansion

i assume they will never fix Singular Focus or Nimble Flurry bugs for the entire expansion

which really pisses me off

[pliant topaz]

its just the last 2% ish worth of min maxes

the main idea for trickster is to furhter push cdr and flawless forms tacks etc with as many sectechs and coups as possible

so u do use them outside of dance to further push and the goal is to try and carry coup ff stacks into dances

[lucid jackal]

So how do u evaluate anything then

[pliant topaz]

the main anchors are flag/blades cds

you dont dance/sod if their cd < 30

u also dont sectech if their cd < 20

now, as for when to dance around sectech, the goal is when sectech < 8

the other idea is its not force delaying coup to get it in dance with like bp or w/e but generally it will line up that when you dance you should be able to coup relatively close to it so the ff stacks get carried into dance

u wanna supercharger sectech

[lucid jackal]

Is that not more or less what I said I dont understand

I just didnt mention the last stuff about "holding CDs" for flag/blades

[pliant topaz]

sure thats why i said its like 1-2% extra

like the positioning of the sectech being 8 is actually important

if u wait till sectech is up

thats a relatively large loss

[lucid jackal]

U mean with 8 seconds left on its CD?

[pliant topaz]

extra naked sectechs are again worth like 1%

yea

the reason is because u lose casts at the end of the fight because of it

u lose a lot of cdr when u sit on the 8 seconds after a few times

[sweet summit]

what do u guys sim at ST ?

[pliant topaz]

sure

those 3 seconds are probably a thing to consider for stacks of unseenblades

[spark tusk]

I didn't know about this, so you dance before sectec is ready and you pull in its cd during dance and then use it during dance right?

[pliant topaz]

rupture being refreshable etc

[pliant topaz]

yep

u do this for both trickster and deathstalker

[spark tusk]

sectec a big boi

gotta make em big

and have lots of them

[lucid jackal]

So r u just saying to "Start your symbols when sectec is 8 seconds left on CD"

or am I missing something

[pliant topaz]

yeah kinda

like the main idea for it is kinda simple in pure single target format

but theres a lot of little things u can do to minmax for anotehr 1-2%

sure, but u also dont need to have low cp to enter dance.

[sweet summit]

are those specifics written down in guide or somewhere ?

[pliant topaz]

technically its natural to finish on 3+ if u have supercharger

but thats my whole point

[lucid jackal]

wdym kinda

what Am I missing

[oblique grove]

Did I wake up to darkest night fixes

Or am I dreaming

NIGHTMARE NIGHTMARE NIGHTMARE NIGHTMARE NIGHTMARE

[sweet summit]

https://tenor.com/view/bugs-reopen-resolved-daffi-duck-bugs-bunny-gif-15871969

[uneven scarab]

did you only play sub on queen? cuz with the roots u have a bunch of extra dance cdr and can basically just send dance/sods everytime as trickster, atleast it felt that way to me

but normally you'd have to hold a dance charge and send naked sod before cd's

[rustic raven]

sub rogue ansurek experience

[still crystal]

what exactly is the "DM bug"

tried to search in discord but cant find a solid response

[deft oar]

killing nexus princess but then getting a 3 parse because there's only 12 logs kek

[edgy zenith]

where use defensives in kyveza?

I'm currently fainting and crimson vial if I get targetted by charge at any point

fainting all of dot and initial hit

then evasion for first half of intermission when I get targetted

and then cloaking last 7s

good or do something else?

am ahving trouble living charges

have to healthstone a lot of the time

stfu

feint*

also, leeching poison or that vanish healing talent

[willow fulcrum]

so going by wowhead

if no dances, we symbols only with ST?

if we have dance we just send symbols+dance as normal

[edgy zenith]

depends on how many dances you have

and how close SB is

[willow fulcrum]

we just want 2 dances

for SB

right

[edgy zenith]

yeah

[willow fulcrum]

and we cant macro dance symbols anymore

bc of 3 charges

[edgy zenith]

so if you JUST got a dance charge back, don't send dance with symbols if the next symbols cast is going with SB

yeah, you shouldn't macro them

[willow fulcrum]

ok ok

[short radish]

Play with the feint DR
cloak if you get QB so you send out one less set of lines
Feint regicide
evasion + feint last regicide

you shouldn't die if you're on more than like 80% hp

If you're dying tell healers to heal better (unironically)

[edgy zenith]

oh interesting, so you are cloaking a charge?

[short radish]

yes

[edgy zenith]

to get rid of explosion orb thing?

[short radish]

yes

[edgy zenith]

I was seeing people cloak last 7s of intermission

[short radish]

im being ethical so i don't send out orbs (and i can dps more on the boss)

i mean you can

but like

also healers can heal

[edgy zenith]

though tit was more so for space

so you can sit in pie slice

and use more space for last set of regicides

[short radish]

unless youre running like

10 melee

you should be fine

[edgy zenith]

alright

sounds like a plan

thanks

[short radish]

or if youre stacked on someone

then maybe you dont have space

[edgy zenith]

yeah, I'm stacked with another melee

[short radish]

either way, you shouldnt be dying to intermission unless you dont receive healing

[edgy zenith]

right, I wasn't really using the cloak for myself, just as a raid help

[short radish]

or you take double hits

[edgy zenith]

more space for everyone

[short radish]

fair

then use cloak then

i didnt have to double stack so i guess i could play a bit greedier

in your case maybe you do have to cloak last 7 seconds

but then even still

healers heal

[edgy zenith]

but for living a charge, feint and crimson veil

[short radish]

unless youre eating 2regicide a second

[edgy zenith]

and then slam the complain if I die?

[short radish]

yah

[edgy zenith]

amen

thanks

[short radish]

when are you dying?

1st 2nd or 3rd?

[edgy zenith]

2nd mostly

actually, 1st more

I think

let me check

[willow fulcrum]

also

do we just send mandate on cd

[edgy zenith]

the set at 40s is killing me