ye that does work
#subtlety
hazy breach
young path
Is this overall? Does that include trash?
livid olive
so it is a me issue
stiff spear
Why am I seeing someone use Darkmoon Fireworks during a single target mythic boss fight
alpine wraith
are you using the macro¿
livid olive
yes sir
alpine wraith
can you show screenshot of it in the macro window
hazy breach
The old one also works hacha im just dumb and tried to spam it without realizing you'd need to wait for it to start resetting 
I didnt realize every press would reset it
alpine wraith
ahaha yea that is why putting a low number is the key
livid olive
lunar arrow
Guys what talents do we play i have no clue whats going on :D?
hazy breach
Thought you could spam it and it would use it every 2 seconds if i put 2 for example
livid olive
I think my brain isnt working unsure
gilded patio
Guys what talents do we play i have no clue whats going on :D?
same here, im so confused. should we go death or trick? 😦
for m+
short radish
trick
gilded patio
are we using tornado or not?
hazy breach
If you want to
gilded patio
could you plesae send the talent build?
hazy breach
It doesnt really matter
lilac stag
Why am I seeing someone use Darkmoon Fireworks during a single target mythic bos...
I have purple fireworks as a visual for Sectech
gilded patio
Eleem do you mind if i send DMs and ask you some questions?
hazy breach
id recommend checking the guides and the pins 
livid olive
can you show screenshot of it in the macro window
It's just my keybind i think
it's much harder to fuck up with the macro on a keybind that isn't mouse wheel
stiff spear
I have purple fireworks as a visual for Sectech
xD the things we gotta do to have some spell effects on our class
tidal python
grim
stiff spear
btw did Shadow blades get a visual update? Feels like it looks different
gilded patio
id recommend checking the guides and the pins <:Surebud:1083827360815665235>
but the pins are just showing Death and not trickster
lean roost
Should I macro symbols and dance?
alpine wraith
but the pins are just showing Death and not trickster
deathstalker has some bugs that hamper the dps so it ends up being almost equal to trickster
hazy breach
It does not
vestal escarp
Should I macro symbols and dance?
less now than ever
alpine wraith
and trickster gameplay is better mostly
vernal drum
@livid olive whats the issue i dont get it
lean roost
less now than ever
Oh shit can you explain me like I’m 5 when to use symbols then
vale lagoon
less now than ever
ngl it's nice to have symbols on its own bind
and then also have it macroed into dance
like there's never a time when u dance without symbols right
vestal escarp
Oh shit can you explain me like I’m 5 when to use symbols then
check second to last pin
rapid crystal
Hello, even though it might not be optimal, what would a Trickster build with Dark Brew look like now? Hope you can give me some guidance 😄
livid olive
<@281907353358565376> whats the issue i dont get it
Because i use mouse wheel up for symbols of death, when I use mouse wheel up it casts symbols twice instead of just once
the macro doesn't work because of how fast the input is being sent (i presume)
lilac stag
the macro doesn't work because of how fast the input is being sent (i presume)
Set a delay on your scroll wheel to 2 seconds
vernal drum
aah
livid olive
Can I do that with like AHK or
fair anchor
Aoe and ST opener should be the same now right ? Sim isnt spreading rupture until we're out of dance/sod
livid olive
just standard settings
broken grotto
So are we running 100% uptime on Symbols now?
lilac stag
Idk look at your mouse software
fair anchor
And using blades after SD like we do on ST
vale pine
but the pins are just showing Death and not trickster
both specs are in the sims
vernal drum
bloodmallet isnt updated
still trellis
wait do i see it correctly that replicating shadows is the suggested talent in ST? 
alpine wraith
it is mostly the same with the other alternatives
all are kinda bad
i recommend first dance tho makes your opener gnarly
although if there are adds replicating is better
still trellis
aight good to know
livid olive
#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null
/cqs
This one works for me now
onyx skiff
I like the feel of the spec currently but I am mega confused about CD management
tacit aspen
HUGE buffed lock pick
fast surge
this is for multi target trickster - I thought the point of Nimble Flurry was to spam Backstab for AoE, or is this purely for combo point generation?
patent crystal
sub feels way better in keys
hazy breach
Combo points are way more important than puny backstab damage, even if it cleaves
vale lagoon
this is for multi target trickster - I thought the point of Nimble Flurry was to...
backstab essentially has no dmg
just think of it that way
fast surge
mmm okay
vale lagoon
so if it isn't serving a bonus purpose, like extending symbols/proccing flawless
it is literally NEVER worth pressing
fast surge
yet there's so much downtime, it's being used a lot 
tacit aspen
rather than look at it specifically as a linear list like that, you can think of it as "shuriken storm, and only backstab to mainstain flawless form"
vale lagoon
like i'd rather leave my PC and sit on a cactus than press backstab when i dont need flawless or inev procs
fast surge
that's a colorful way of thinking about it, thanks!
vale pine
this is for multi target trickster - I thought the point of Nimble Flurry was to...
backstab damage makes a wet noodle look like a sledgehammer
means storm gets very quickly to a point of beating it due to the combo point benefits
keen zenith
is there a way to track the supercharged combopoints? if you're playing supercharger?
fast surge
is it even necessary to track it now?
vale pine
is it even necessary to track it now?
if you want to know how many charges you have left, yes
else, no
keen zenith
i'm not playing with the default art
vale pine
in terms of gameplay, there is no optimization around it
so its just "more information = more better"
vale lagoon
dang ig i get lucky for once for being lazy about my setup lmao
keen zenith
so they dont charge a specific point like ER did?
hazy breach
Correct
keen zenith
jus the next 2 finishers
ok gotcha
or 1, depending on how many points you talent i suppose
vale pine
it increases it by 1/2 or 3 combo points
depending on what you have talented
the talent gvies 2 charges
alpine wraith
yea basically reformat brain as if ER never existed
now blue cps is next damaging finisher has +3 cp
onyx skiff
- am I right in thinking holding Symbols for SecTec is probably fine since we can stack charges?
- is there any additional thought before sending Symbols/SecTec without Dance (like... hold SecTec for X seconds if Dance is coming back)?
- am I right in saying SecTec should be the finisher directly after Symbols?
- do we want to hold any particular charges of mini CDs like Symbols or Dance ahead of big CDs like Flag/Blades?
- is there any early Rupture refresh logic? would you refresh during Dance if it dropped or let there be downtime?
vestal escarp
they're the first so you always consume them
clever delta
so the coup bug is back, do we know if it work for sub or only outlaw
lilac stag
can you be more specific with which bug?
barren plume
Imagine blizzard didn’t make all these class changes mid season and instead fixed all of the bugs… crazy thought am I right
clever delta
you use coup on critter, respec to DS and have coup every finisher at max cp
there is so many major bugs that i dont think it will get fixed as quick as last time
lilac stag
i had coup lock up on me (perma) but wasnt triggering it
clever delta
nah this is different
lilac stag
and it dropped going into DS
alpine wraith
same as always please dont buggerino
vale pine
- am I right in thinking holding Symbols for SecTec is probably fine since we ca...
- yes
2, how many shadow dance charges you have and when your big cooldowns are up - the first finisher in dance usually, but does not need to be, you can use symbols/dance before secret is ready as long as you are able to use it at least 6th gcd in dance
- you don't send symbols if dance comes up soon
- i tried but got no win for adding a early refresh
tidal python
Imagine blizzard didn’t make all these class changes mid season and instead fixe...
Then we'd have all changes plus all the bugs next patch 
pliant topaz
- am I right in thinking holding Symbols for SecTec is probably fine since we ca...
In ordered I guess,
No - u can’t sod every secteh
That’s now how the logic works, u get a fixed amount of symbols/ dances every 1.5 minutes since sod is fixed cd.
-no would be nice if it was 1 of the 2 supercharger versions but delaying dances to get supercharger on sectech costs u a dance later in the fight so not worth. (Often it will be tho)
- yes u rupture before dance again if it current rupture will fall in dance
sinful sluice
what will be the main rotation after the patch? the opener is noted, we just tie dance+symbols everytime and other stuff stays the same?
also do we not tie transmitter to flag anymore?
alpine wraith
things change a bit because of how our krangled cdr works
eleem did a little writeup in the thread
the #tc-info one
and because we run out of SoD too
onyx skiff
1. yes
2, how many shadow dance charges you have and when your big cooldowns are...
ty love you
hazy breach
so the coup bug is back, do we know if it work for sub or only outlaw
Yes but dont, its very much in exploit territory
sinful sluice
sorry i only see tc-research ... how can i view that channel?
sinful sluice
thanks
fast surge
do we hold or send SecTec if Cold Blood still has 30+ seconds cooldown?
namely in the opener
after using it the first time
lilac stag
send
alpine wraith
yea first 1:30 mins you send sec tech every time it is up you just skip dance at 1 min
merry agate
Okay i take it all back just tried some bosses and sub is bussin 
alpine wraith
so it would be after cds at around 3x secs then 4x then dry SoD at 60 then cds back again in 1:30
terse ruin
Yooo guys, what are your thoughts about the new sub spec ? Fun ? Stronger ?
jade horizon
is it ok to macro symbols with ST? or is that dumb?
terse ruin
Rotation changes a lot ?
terse ruin
What a fantastic change to ER
ER ? Sorry I'm french haha
keen dome
Echoing Reprimand.
terse ruin
Thx
keen dome
It is now Supercharger
steel spindle
I was juts about to ask that whoa :0
dawn plume
yo guys should i stick to assa or play sub for pve i really like the playstyle of sub more but it seemed so weak before 11.0.5
(in pve)
dawn plume
i like what works
jaunty heath
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
steel spindle
thats weird cuz sub sims higher now than my ass builds
steel spindle
only with shuriken tornado for mythic+ build though. it's like a 200k diff in the sim.
jaunty heath
how come we go trickster in single target when ds sims higher?
dawn plume
we got ts in st??
thats crazy
would also like to know why
ah the pinned comment explains it
uneven scarab
ds only sims about 2% higher due to a mark bug iirc
hazy breach
But then it also has flensing knives
uneven scarab
Yeah good point
terse ruin
Black powder when more than how much target guys ?
alpine wraith
only played DS on those too
hazy breach
Pretty much every boss turns around a lot
alpine wraith
man what a god bless
on the others
wonder if we accept donations from other specs not getting parried
my paypal is open i will tell them
keen dome
Haha
sacred yarrow
so we throw symbols with flag and if flag on CD then with ST? just those conditions?
round latch
not the first time to be written as a question but is deathstalker's mark bugged for sub as well?
or its funcitonal
sry still at work,havent logged
alpine wraith
havent done m+ but if it bugs like assa we dont notice that much as it gets applied next strike
round latch
yup figured that much,but it drops as well
iron spear
I have to say, the spec now feels really good to play. That "rework" is a 100% in my book.
hazy breach
"rework"
round latch
dont like trickster but im willing to choke my pride and play it
coz rogue above all else
jade urchin
now that some time has passed, do we actually play the same talents for all bosses besides maybe deathstalker for pure single target?
steel horizon
lol @ whispyrs name
keen dome
Damn, that's a mood.
steel horizon
yea im sure most of the theorycrafter guys have lol
obvs must be annoying when people come in here and ask questions that can be answered in the pins or the wowhead guide
hazy breach
This channel is alright, because sub isnt very fotm
#assassination on the other hand
steel horizon
lol true
sacred yarrow
It’s bad here when it is
so many 
spammed in those times
hollow cobalt
I like how chill it is.
I will repeat myself again, but the sub discord is top tier
keen dome
Oh, no doubt. This discord in general is incredibly well run and really comfy to be in.
Also why is the game threatening me:
hollow cobalt
Oh, no doubt. This discord in general is incredibly well run and really comfy to...
True
sacred yarrow
did you guys manage to get the castsequence macro working?
alpine wraith
yes
sacred yarrow
whats it looking now? 👀
lilac stag
/castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null
/cqs
whats the cqs
alpine wraith
i use pick pocket just for the giggles
lilac stag
clear spell que
sacred yarrow
oh, nice! thank you very much
young path
i use pick pocket just for the giggles
And u get a shot at a bismuth lockbox if u double mash lol
pliant topaz
<#316923750073499648> on the other hand
It’s kinda funny that even when sub was form this wasn’t happening thank god
lilac stag
remember when havoc was shit and sub was just spamming shadowstrike finisher? it was toxic af here
hollow cobalt
I love the fact that we're so few to play that spec
alpine wraith
it can have its drawbacks
pliant topaz
It wasnt really fotm
Season1/2?
uneven scarab
I love the fact that we're so few to play that spec
28 other sub rogues at my ilvl on heroic rash according to my parses 
alpine wraith
assa sill more popular
uneven scarab
ghost town spec
keen dome
It does create a good level of comradery. you see a Sub rogue in the wild and you just know. A tip'a the hat. A polite wave.
uneven scarab
It does create a good level of comradery. you see a Sub rogue in the wild and yo...
so true
alpine wraith
we have not been top spec in number of representation since like legion
but that does nto mean it has not been strong
lilac stag
@pliant topaz fix mandate in APL so eleem doesnt have to
alpine wraith
of course
pliant topaz
Should be fixed idk
lilac stag
pliant topaz
Works for me with the custom apl
lilac stag
sure it is
pliant topaz
Oh
fossil blade
So, have there been any changes sinces yestarday? Im a little lost
fathom meadow
anyone tell me why i just hit an evis for 14.2mil?
hollow cobalt
It does create a good level of comradery. you see a Sub rogue in the wild and yo...
Honor among thieves
alpine wraith
anyone tell me why i just hit an evis for 14.2mil?
maybe you have the coup bug
relog
lilac stag
anyone tell me why i just hit an evis for 14.2mil?
if you swapped from trickster to ds you're likely bug abusing
spare oar
Whats the Coup Bug?
alpine wraith
wont tell how to replicate
fathom meadow
more bugs.... 
alpine wraith
but basically all your evis are like coup de grace
uneven scarab
Wtf
barren plume
I mean, blame blizzard they should fix bugs before punishing people for playing the game as is
lilac stag
like locus
alpine wraith
they dont punish people for these kind of bugs tbh
uneven scarab
Oh youll notice
barren plume
Abuse the shit out of bugs and just fucking pump so we get nerfed
alpine wraith
we just dont like to tell people how to bug abuse
lilac stag
they dont punish people for these kind of bugs tbh
well rwf got a warning lol
spare oar
Ye sure
alpine wraith
i mean the spellslinger one was ehehe
but they abused 2 or 3 other bugs we all know too
barren plume
How many rwf guilds had bots playin for them
fair stump
Did you get the chance to record the video of the rotation, Hacha?
hazy breach
Its gonna get fixed very shortly, just like last time
barren plume
Yea fixed in no time. Just to bring back another bug
soft summit
```#showtooltip Symbols of Death
/castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null
/c...
What does this do exactly?
hazy breach
Prevents you from accidently pressing symbols more than once
soft summit
Great, now how do we add this to a shadow dance macro?
hazy breach
Well you cant dance while dance is up
lilac stag
shadowdance doesnt get a macro
hazy breach
So its in by default
lilac stag
you bind sod and dance seperately
topaz raptor
Sub is looking very alive on the famous wcl statistics, is that the bug or just a small data set?
near rivet
topaz raptor
Or is sub alive
alpine wraith
sub players are just blasters
if you play sub you are likely to perform well
basically
we cull the grey loggers
our grey loggers are big bois
soft summit
you bind sod and dance seperately
Why? Don’t we use sod with every shadow dance?
keen dome
I def felt like, in Heroic content, I did WAY more damage than I did last week. The changes felt pretty mid until I played them and I honestly like the flow now.
alpine wraith
What is this showing
total number of parses
keen dome
I'm sure most of that is down to Supercharger
alpine wraith
basically sub is 20x less popular than assa
barren plume
Nice
sacred yarrow
evis
wispy pebble
So sub logs are only big because of evis bug then?
uneven scarab
well no not everyones abusing
wispy pebble
well no not everyones abusing
But the ones that do will push average quite high no?
hearty fog
wait, I had a weird moment this morning while doing the world bosses where the 4 stacks of unseen blade were not disappearing, is that what you guys are talking about?
pliant topaz
But the ones that do will push average quite high no?
thats not how percentiles work
steel spindle
can we macro flag and sblades together now
hearty fog
(i have absolutely no clue how i triggered that shit)
pliant topaz
bugs push the max, maybe 99th percentiles
but thats about it
outliers dont affect medians
uneven scarab
wait, I had a weird moment this morning while doing the world bosses where the 4...
Nah this is just overworld coup not working shit
left ledge
What evis bug are people mentioning
lilac stag
11.0.5 the no macros except sectech spec
uneven scarab
had the same happen to me
hearty fog
Oh okay, nvm then
dawn plume
escalating blade literally gets stuck bruh
harsh socket
!guide
vale pine
```#showtooltip Symbols of Death
/castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null
/c...
does that work in instanced content
lilac stag
Yes
vale pine
eleem mentioned complications
hearty fog
guess the open world lag is to blame for that one
lilac stag
The cqs takes care of it
vale pine
oh interessting
dawn plume
guess the open world lag is to blame for that one
could be
lilac stag
Just tested 2 delves
vale pine
perfect then
surreal siren
@vale pine Hi Fuu! I have maybe a stupid question. I was simming gems in my gear, Culminating Blasphemite with all kinds of gems (mastery+vers, vers+mastery, crit+vers, haste+vers etc). And I found out that raidbot suggests me to put all the gems on haste + vers. I'm confused, I've expected mastery+vers or vers+mastery to be a top recommendation, just as you wrote in the guide. Why could it be this way?
alpine wraith
depends on your gear
flint umbra
anything i can drop for improved shadow techniques
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> Hi Fuu! I have maybe a stupid question. I was simming gems...
haste isn't extremely bad
pliant topaz
anything i can drop for improved shadow techniques
that thing sucks
flint umbra
really would like the more forgiving energy
pliant topaz
improved shadow techniques that is
alpine wraith
anything i can drop for improved shadow techniques
improved shadow tech is not huge anyway
pliant topaz
u litearlly wont even notice it exists
flint umbra
im noticing rn that my energy is kinda iffy
alpine wraith
it will always be
uneven scarab
outside of cd’s?
flint umbra
outside of cd’s?
yes
uneven scarab
yeah thats how it plays
pliant topaz
!design
left ledge
Wait the coup bug when u swap to DS is still there
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
flint umbra
no shot i can get vigor?
alpine wraith
it came back
left ledge
HAHAHAHA
alpine wraith
got fixed fast before
left ledge
That’s funny ngl
pliant topaz
left ledge
Still never playing DS
dawn plume
escalating blade gets stuck so randomly though i have no clue when and how to control it so i dont think its abuseable
surreal siren
haste isn't extremely bad
I just didnt expect to get this result at all, since I have Sureki Zealot's Insignia, which gives me more haste than I could imagine...
left ledge
I love that one
wispy pebble
is there is there any amount of time id delay SoD to match with Sectec or SD or both
alpine wraith
but does nto hapen a lot in raid at least
earnest prairie
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
sinful sluice
how long did you guys wait until the server open when patching for 11.0.5 on NA?
estimated patch hour is 7
cant wait that long to play new sub 💀
flint umbra
kinda confused why the st DS build doesnt take dark brew
isnt dark brew insane for it
pliant topaz
not reallt
dawn plume
but does nto hapen a lot in raid at least
why it seems to stay forever
spice escarp
eu was up after 4 hours i think
steel spindle
do we ever use black powder
uneven scarab
why it seems to stay forever
I had it happened in the anniversary zone and when i went back to dornogal it worked fine
vale pine
I just didnt expect to get this result at all, since I have Sureki Zealot's Insi...
once you got a shaman, you don't rly need haste anymore
its interessting tho if your sim suggestes it
fair stump
do we ever use black powder
if you have coup and you're close to having cds, you use BP
vale pine
how long did you guys wait until the server open when patching for 11.0.5 on NA?
eu downtime is usualyl fairly short
fair stump
fuu, someone yesterday said that we should hold buttons when we're at about 30 seconds from having cds
In order to have 2 stacks of symbols
Is this the play?
fair stump
do we want 2 stacks of dances as well?
uneven scarab
2 dance 2 sods yes
vale pine
you shouldn's send your symbols charge
uneven scarab
U dont actually need 2 dances tho
vale pine
if it isn't up with flagellation again
surreal siren
once you got a shaman, you don't rly need haste anymore
do you mean shaman as a player in my party or? 
vale pine
do you mean shaman as a player in my party or? <:peophammer:590832416138985472>
yes totem is big
ornate current
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
surreal siren
yes totem is big
noted Thank you
trim ridge
honestly after trying the spec in raid its weird but not unfun
vale pine
it is fresh, something to get used to
surreal siren
its interessting tho if your sim suggestes it
so I suppose it remains a mistery for both of us 
vale pine
its possible that a bit more haste gives you an extra cast in your gear
which can lead to a bit more gain from the stat
most likely explanation
surreal siren
its possible that a bit more haste gives you an extra cast in your gear
Hmmm 
I'll look in this direction in simulations then, thanks
fair stump
its harsh having to move from assa to sub, the loss of silence really hurts
hazy breach
nvm i cant read
pliant topaz
What
hearty fog
Wait what
pliant topaz
why do you have to move from sin to sub
trim ridge
its harsh having to move from assa to sub, the loss of silence really hurts
they lost garrote silence?
steel spindle
How do I use shuriken tornado
fair stump
why do you have to move from sin to sub
cause I want to play sub
steel spindle
where i do I use it i guess to say
hazy breach
they lost garrote silence?
No, he meant that sub doesnt have it
fair stump
^
fair stump
sub had aoe kidney?
slow isle
How do I use shuriken tornado
AOE list of spell prios
uneven scarab
sub had aoe kidney?
start of df they tried to give it to us
didnt go over too well
fair stump
What the fuck
was using 5cp on it worth it?
Back then kidney was 6 seconds, right? damn
uneven scarab
Probably i don’t remember exactly how it worked
vale pine
5 or 6 cp finishing is not much diffrence
vale pine
so don't overthink it
uneven scarab
But it was still insane
fair stump
5 or 6 cp finishing is not much diffrence
more like no difference, kidney is capped at 5cp
hearty fog
the changes around Symbols of Death makes the spec very... weird to play
left ledge
It’s just dust
But crappier
I can’t really tell that much of a difference outside of blades being delayed ngl
strange chasm
Sin just does too much more damage now than sub I feel
vale pine
more like no difference, kidney is capped at 5cp
oh for kidney specific, ye
lilac stag
then play assa
hearty fog
But crappier
pretty much my thoughts, yeah
haven't gotten used to it yet but the opener feels somewhat slower/less "explosive" than it was
toxic sleet
is sub harder than assas / outlaw to learn i am new. on it never touched it
nimble burrow
May i ask a stupid question? Like Flawless Form increase Finisher dmg but we don't cast BP in that buff, i can understand that maybe its number diff but the storm doesn't effect from flawless form, why we cast storm when form is up?
pliant topaz
I can’t really tell that much of a difference outside of blades being delayed ng...
Idk dude, trickster sub i played last night was the most fun version of sub ive ever played
keen dome
Hell yeah
lilac stag
new stuff feels weird. shocker
uneven scarab
Idk dude, trickster sub i played last night was the most fun version of sub ive ...
I had a blast ngl
It felt good
rigid iris
Mmm few questions about the updated rotation (from Wowhead) for Trickster multitarget prio:
- Are we meant to use SecTec over Evi during Dance even when Coup is up?
- What also puzzled me was the combo builder change outside dance part: without Flawless up, we really only BS despite the target count? Referring to the "Use Shuriken Storm on 3 or more targets with Flawless Form up." so if it's not up, we don't SS at all?
keen dome
Hell yeah, blasting though
uneven scarab
Hell yeah, blasting though
Bigtime
lilac stag
Ghost town spec tho
does that mater?
uneven scarab
Nope i just think its hilarious
alpine wraith
the exploiters will even make us look good
and even then they are not topping
smh
keen dome
oh no they're gonna get us an aura nerf (not really)
half galleon
my friend sent me logs picture i told him cant even beat a shaman with bugs
lilac stag
the exploiters will even make us look good
i'm worried we wont get a buff because of it
keen dome
It's a known bug they fixed before so I think it's pretty likely they'll fix it
pliant topaz
i'm worried we wont get a buff because of it
its just 1 boss/maybe 2
fair stump
what exploit?
lilac stag
nothing
fair stump
were people dealing more dmg as sub?
fathom meadow
cuz sub is kewl
steel horizon
Mmm few questions about the updated rotation (from Wowhead) for Trickster multit...
This isnt a change. You use BS without flawless form up in order to proc flawless form again
hearty fog
Idk dude, trickster sub i played last night was the most fun version of sub ive ...
out of curiosity, what's making it this fun to you? I haven't tried it in raid - will in like 2 hours from now - and only trained on a dummy for like 15 minutes. Aside from actively managing Symbols of Death, nothing seems to have changed that much, or am I wrong?
(maybe i'm missing something since I just traded blows with an inactive dummy without any raid buffs/skyfury)
lilac stag
the pacing is nice, you have some control over when you're launching cds
hearty fog
gotcha
proper fulcrum
lilac stag
if you have to hold at dance before flag is up, it's not terrible which I think was a concern
rigid iris
This isnt a change. You use BS without flawless form up in order to proc flawle...
Ohhhh, I've then understood it wrong previously, thanks for this
keen dome
The coup CDR is super nice
hearty fog
i'm guessing i'm just gonna go full trickster tonight lmao
vestal escarp
I like the guaranteed crits-increased crit chance of DS
just that tho
it's cool that you can leave crit behind when you gear because your talents take care of that
pliant topaz
out of curiosity, what's making it this fun to you? I haven't tried it in raid -...
basically what scath said. theres a lot more skill expression in proper use of sod with regards to actual dance timing/ naked sods/ naked sectechs/ proper use of super chargers etc.
but other than the skill expression theres also the options you now have. previously you were tied down by flag/bladaes where if u delayed sod by a few seconds u either would lose an entire dance cast, or u would have to delay blades/flag by like 15-20 seconds which could cost u a cast so you have very little freedom. but now you have alot more freedom in moving the dances around between major cds.
in aoe, you also have a lot more options, it actually solves a lot of aoe problems for sub, super charger brings in impressive burst with sectech, dungeons feel like a blast having multiple sod charges between packs and farming cd while runnint to next pack
overall i dont think dust was healthy for the spec. its too hard to balance a spec around that, its much more healthier to give it the freedom to move around dances instead of major cds
fair stump
also 6% more dmg for symbols :D
hearty fog
alright, thanks!
feels like i'm gonna shit the bed tonight but let's fucking go
lmao
pale spear
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
mental comet
sub still meme in M+?
fair stump
Does this mean we are better at ovi'nax now?
alpine wraith
we are a bit better now
fair stump
sub still meme in M+?
imp garrote alone makes sin utility go through the roof
you have to compensate with dmg
vale pine
basically what scath said. theres a lot more skill expression in proper use of s...
still funny that we kinda created dust 2.0
pliant topaz
trickster super fun. ds not so much
pliant topaz
still funny that we kinda created dust 2.0
i think its a more interesting/ healthier dust tbh
last night on ovinax i vanished after flag/blades out of habit
vale pine
it has less extremes
vale pine
ye
sinful sluice
whats up with trickster build?
hearty fog
Coup de Grace has proper CDR now so it's looking smoother than it was prepatch I believe
pliant topaz
^ the extra cdr
- the energy
- the freedom to play around when you have good "gos"
- the big burst
- the big sectech damage
Last night im pretty sure i had a 15M sectech
with no amps
sinful sluice
ahhhhhhh cant wait!!
i have midterms tmrw and cant study shit cuz im so hyped for the patch
pliant topaz
kekw i had 2 last week i have one next week. we game for now
uneven scarab
Dint think any of my wa’s were updated for supercharge so i was just kinda blind blasting with it
Definitely felt it though
clear scroll
how are the changes to sub, is everything on fire?
vale pine
how are the changes to sub, is everything on fire?
needs a bit to get used to
the 3 symbols dynamic feels ncie
but thats for the enthusiasts of us ^^
clear scroll
haha
vale pine
it migth be confusing for many
lucid lily
but thats for the enthusiasts of us ^^
Isn’t that all that’s left?
sinful sluice
whats the main purpose of 3 symbols?
so we use 2 on the burst and save other for dance+symbols?
nocturne rose
Hilfe please
nocturne rose
How 2 sim for dummies?
lilac stag
Hilfe please
nightly and reload the page / clear cache
lilac stag
youre on an old cached version of the site
uneven scarab
in the opener
hearty fog
i nuked it outta my bars tbh
hazy breach
Hilfe please
Remove your old custom APL
vale pine
Hilfe please
du benutzt immernoch die alte apl unter custom apl
(you need to remove the custom apl)
vale pine
fixed ^^
fair stump
Last night im pretty sure i had a 15M sectech
what the fuck
lucid lily
Did I read that right? Is trickster close enough in ST that we can just play it everywhere? I really hate deathstalker
uneven scarab
Might’ve been my highest
fair stump
clone hit for like 7M
from the 15M or aside from the 15M?
fair stump
Did I read that right? Is trickster close enough in ST that we can just play it ...
yes
trim ridge
Did I read that right? Is trickster close enough in ST that we can just play it ...
isnt ds slightly better on onet arget fights?
uneven scarab
based option is playing trickster everywhere cuz ds smells bad
hearty fog
sure hope they plan to rework that shit at some point
swift tinsel
wait does the new prio actually say that sectec during naked symbols is on the table bc that feels dirty
uneven scarab
we do have a naked symbols cast so yeah
hearty fog
instead of working on yet another paladin/mage rework for some reason 
fair stump
we do have a naked symbols cast so yeah
just one?
uneven scarab
1 min mark you naked symbols
fair stump
I seem to have enough cdr on dance to always be dancing with symbols
sinful sluice
2 dance + 2 symbols on burst and just use leftover alone?
uneven scarab
I seem to have enough cdr on dance to always be dancing with symbols
Yeah but at 1:30 youll run out of dances
fair stump
Oh, true
uneven scarab
Atleast in st
fair stump
why would aoe change that?
fair stump
due to shuriken?
hearty fog
think it goes somewhere along the line of 2 dances on the opener, 1 dance + symbols on like 40 or 45 seconds in, naked symbols on 1:00, then you pool until your cds
and you go again
uneven scarab
think it goes somewhere along the line of 2 dances on the opener, 1 dance + symb...
This is the way yeah
hearty fog
(at least that's what i got on a target dummy LMAO)
I'm guessing Skyfury will inevitably speed up the CDR process with all those additionnal combo points
But that's why we got 3 symbols of death i guess
uneven scarab
Im so glad we have like 4 people in my guild obsessed with shaman
Probably would be playing ass if we didnt ngl
reef elm
i noticed in Dungeon Slice it rarely uses black powder- is that just a target count thing from Dungeon Slice or do we really be using Storm->Eviscerate alot?
warm depot
my buddy is a shaman doomer and keeps complaining that theyre gonna get stricken into the ground after this patch LMFAO
hearty fog
my buddy is a shaman doomer and keeps complaining that theyre gonna get stricken...
tbh I saw one random guy going over the 20M mark on 5 targets
uneven scarab
They’ll be fineee
hearty fog
That's not fucking normal lmao
warm depot
im of the opinion that they only need light nerfs but spymasters needs to be gutted
spymasters enables too much imo
sinful sluice
reason why i dont like BP for mythic is it is so damn trash on ST/or 2-3 target situations
it does dmg below tanks 😢
tidal python
i noticed in Dungeon Slice it rarely uses black powder- is that just a target co...
As trickster you just cast evis and cleave off of it most of the time
sinful sluice
is mythic+ any better on new patch
reef elm
As trickster you just cast evis and cleave off of it most of the time
offff nice okay
bitter gate
!wa
pliant topaz
u get more dnace cdr in aoe
deft oar
devlin's WA is goated
pliant topaz
but sod cd is constant
reef elm
do i need to do anything really special to keep the nimble flurry cleave thing up
hearty fog
Keep track of Flawless Form
That's it
If you don't have it on you, you just Shadowstrike/Backstab to trigger it
ivory fractal
light imp
**__Subtlety WA's:__**
Class packs:
> ### <:fuu:1184251947352608768> [Fuu's](<ht...
you people actually play like that? i could never lol
uneven scarab
wdym
trim ridge
we are specced into shuriken tornado on the trickster m+ build, do we ignore the button?
lilac stag
you can likely do etiher
trim ridge
60 energy on 1 button when we have 100 feels bad
hearty fog
Yeah but the finishers are more or less « free » through relentless strikes
So it works out
uneven scarab
Tornado is nice for cdr
sinful sluice
when using tornado, do we just use finisher 4 times even with low combo points
or wait till it gets 7
uneven scarab
think you wanna finish everytime
daring raptor
!talents
anyone know the talents for raid and m+?
are wer running ds for m+ or trickster ?
vestal escarp
uneven scarab
Pins
uneven scarab
Raid and m+ build in there
fallow nimbus
damn, if you keep yourself from pressing sod on cd and mostly watch just sectec and flag then it doesn't play as horrible as i thought
hazy breach
An exploit
pliant topaz
yep
sinful sluice
i think evis does more dmg rn or smt?
fallow nimbus
oh
gritty knot
and how do u trigger that? just curious, i dont wanna get banned anyway
fallow nimbus
is it in logs just coup then?
pliant topaz
and how do u trigger that? just curious, i dont wanna get banned anyway
then dont worry about it kekw
that one blizz did say "do not do"
sinful sluice
has it been live for a long time?
uneven scarab
Outlaw’s about to go to jail fr
sinful sluice
or just came back this patch
uneven scarab
Big abusers
pliant topaz
or just came back this patch
it was fixed on mythic release i believe. but not pushed to ptr
and on .5 they merged ptr with live
so all the fixed bugs are back
uneven scarab
pliant topaz
thats also why non of the buff/nerfs/hotfixes they did were working
so they had to bring all those back too
sinful sluice
they are gonna ban these ppl right...?
honestly didnt see anyone getting banned by using expolits i think
pliant topaz
sinful sluice
only for autos/gold trading
pliant topaz
for the coup abuse bug they did specifically warn RWF people not to use it
void hound
so do we cast symbols pre pull or what
daring raptor
for the coup abuse bug they did specifically warn RWF people not to use it
What is this bug you are talking about ?
hollow patio
Hello guys!, testing some of the info that eleem typed in the thread about the opener, somebody having issues getting to the [ ] (SD & SOD) at 45 seg?
sinful sluice
i think its triggered by killing smt with coup and chaning talents or smt
hollow patio
its like i cannot get enough cdr on dummy to be able to SD at that time
sinful sluice
just not worth using dont wanna get banned
uneven scarab
its like i cannot get enough cdr on dummy to be able to SD at that time
you should have plenty after the opener
hearty fog
What is this bug you are talking about ?
basically you have a permanent coup de grace instead of Eviscerate as Deathstalker
daring raptor
basically you have a permanent coup de grace instead of Eviscerate as Deathstalk...
wait what how ?
hearty fog
You don't need to know bro
uneven scarab
It doesnt matter
hearty fog
If you abuse it, you're gonna get banned for exploiting
uneven scarab
rwf was warned to not use it even
daring raptor
kk still good to know what not to do
uneven scarab
Its pretty specific so
hearty fog
well if you see yourself get up to 2M DPS on ST
vivid cape
Why Premedition over Planned execution?
hearty fog
you'll know
uneven scarab
just wouldn’t worry about it
hollow patio
you should have plenty after the opener
Hmmm, actually you use x2 SD+SOD in opener, and then another round at 30sc, then it is supposed that if you have 3 SOD talenteed, there should go there another round of SD+SOD at 45 sec
daring raptor
well if you see yourself get up to 2M DPS on ST
i do on every pull the what? that is normal on opener
hearty fog
on opener
not on a 5 minutes long fight
A sustained DPS of 2M is like 500k over what the sims are predicting so
daring raptor
ahr okay
vivid cape
anyone know why Premedition over Planned execution? in the pinned talent build? 🙂
alpine wraith
premed is quite important now
vivid cape
Does it work with shadow dance?
vivid cape
Oh i see why then 🙂
pliant topaz
yea
wispy pebble
crazy that this outperforms the other stuff lmao
pliant topaz
yea
hearty fog
anyone know why Premedition over Planned execution? in the pinned talent build? ...
i'm wild guessing tbh so someone else would need to confirm that, but I'm guessing it has to do with Supercharger and getting off a fat fucking SecTech whenever you Shadow Dance
vale pine
it is more
that most talents in the row
arn't that good
means there is a lot more choice
also means the first dance is decent
wispy pebble
so we literally use the same tree for everything?
wispy pebble
nono i like it haha
lilac stag
Imp storm and TFD in keys maybe possibly
uneven scarab
I can see TFD being good in mists/gb without actually playing it
would be fun to try
trim ridge
what does tfd stand for
small furnace
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
uneven scarab
The first dance
vale pine
tfd is def. good
i just don't like it as a standard suggestion atm
without testing it more
vale pine
6 sec is just a very weird requirement
small furnace
!sims
wicked joltBOT
Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
vale pine
!sheet has sims
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
daring raptor
What do we do now with trinket?
vale pine
same as before
vale pine
oh
uneven scarab
you can probably use it even before flag
vale pine
so you macro transmitter to flag
daring raptor
when you are to your second flag window
do we wait to use flag until trinket is uop
up*
or just use flag without trinket second time ?
daring raptor
that is not what i am asking
daring raptor
i use my transmitter on pull
vale pine
transmitter has 1 min 30 cd
vale pine
happy to help
also
/castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null
/cqs```^ somone tested this macro seems to work
highly recommend to use instead of regular symbols
daring raptor
what does it do +
vale pine
i did a worldboss just some minutes ago
half galleon
vale pine
and it lagged a bit so i send 3 symbols charges at the same time
small furnace
what does it do +
I was just about to ask that too lol
daring raptor
why not juse macro symbols into your dance ?
vale pine
can do too
just dont spam the button
symbols has no security mechanism
and it only pandemic refreshes
so if you spam a key with symbols
it could be that you send multiple charges
kinda annoying
silk glacier
so does this ensure that if the buff is active above 2 secs it wont cast?
uneven scarab
basically you cant spam the button and for 2 seconds after its cast it wont let you cast again
vale pine
it just means you can't use it again for 2 secs
silk glacier
OHHHH
daring raptor
just macro it into shadow dance then ?
small furnace
@vale pine have you been playing sub in dungeons/if so how is performing (in a practical sense, not necessarily sim "perfection") compared to sin? I'm kinda bored with sin and would make the switch if it's comparable
uneven scarab
Anti-spam macro
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> have you been playing sub in dungeons/if so how is perform...
sin is completely op in keys, so comparing it is unreasonable
small furnace
Fair
vale pine
for what its worth, sub does good burst, better than sin
light imp
<@194804407706189824> have you been playing sub in dungeons/if so how is perform...
i just did a +10 and a +11, i wasn't far behind people with 5 ilvl on me
vale pine
aoe is still not the best
but the flexibility with 3x symbols feels nice
trickster plays actually decently well
light imp
This was a +11 AK with some wonky pulls (im 618 ilvl, the shamans were 620+)
small furnace
I respect the name
small furnace
Nice
small furnace
They are busted and easy to play, must be nice
Sims for raid don't seem that far in comparison to sin which seems nice, don't even care about outlaw though. Bummy spec lol
light imp
wish DS would get some sorta buff or big fix. honestly was enjoying that over smooth brain trickster
small furnace
Target switching for DS is a pain sometimes though
light imp
i consider them both extensions of priority target, but yes, it is
prio target cleave*
half galleon
just to see if im in the right track we do still have that 1 naked symbols right or do we just have enough cdr to send all of them with dances
light imp
i only symbols when i have sec tec up (in m+ havn't raided yet) and find that i need to naked SD sometimes due to CDR on sectec burning through SoD
runic sinew
!wa
vivid cobalt
pure musk
They are busted and easy to play, must be nice
I fucking played ret the other day
After making fun it for being braindead
and lowkey was so fucking fun
slate nest
Dungeon splice on sin (left) vs sub (right) HOLY SHIT
vale pine
anyone got any logs or something from m+ on sub vs on sin?
sub is good but
uneven scarab
well i imagine you’re in full sub gear
vale pine
sub likes vers/mastery
slate nest
Secondary is vers
vale pine
sin likes a good spread
uneven scarab
yeah sin def wants alot more crit and alot less vers
trim ridge
thats sub enjoyer ststs
trim ridge
which patch was mop?
stable island
Fuu I tried sub a bit in raid last night and have a much better understanding of why you hit me with the xd yesterday 😂
trim ridge
5.0?
trim ridge
been sub enjoyer since then
stable island
The timings are something else
trim ridge
good ol times
slate nest
I was sin since mop till 7.3
trim ridge
when a big eviscerate meant something
chonked ppl hps
also ur fillers dealt real damage
elfin haven
Quick Q - Any of the event trinkets doing good?
uneven scarab
not rlly unfortunately
trim ridge
Quick Q - Any of the event trinkets doing good?
there was a pin or something for the trinkets
muted agate
did they fix nimble flurry
vestal escarp
never was 40%
gaunt tiger
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
steel horizon
Dungeon splice on sin (left) vs sub (right) HOLY SHIT
Most likely something wrong with your sin tree's here
The difference is no where near that big
slate nest
I redid sim
fair stump
!wa
steel horizon
Yea that sounds about right. Should be close to the same or within 100k of each other
slate nest
Forgot to update ya'll on that
But it is cool seeing sub being actually same level as sin
we may not get that much util with aoe silence but we got dmg
steel horizon
Blizz also said there would be more class tuning on friday. Hopefully they squeeze us in there lol
vernal drum
whats the new best spec for sub raid ?
vale pine
trickster
vernal drum
can u link me a tree
steel horizon
Check pins
vale pine
hazy breach
Ive been doing some sus things with the coup charge now 💀
keen dome
Question about that tree: Why replicating? Just the best choice over the other potential options like Improved Sec Technique, etc?
vale pine
Ive been doing some sus things with the coup charge now 💀
same ^^
hazy breach
Question about that tree: Why replicating? Just the best choice over the other p...
Everything kinda sucks, replicating is fine, sht is fine, tfd is fine, gloom is fine
keen dome
Coo', that's what I was wondering. Thanks 🙂
uneven scarab
The horrors
half comet
keen dome
A little tombstone with dust on it.
solar charm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
vale pine
i think its fine
the symbols charges feel good to play
its just a bit less intuitive
keen dome
I'm legitimately surprised by how much I like it.
vale pine
it feels not bad
uneven scarab
I was dooming hard until i played it ngl
steel horizon
Death perception sure feels nicer than how dust felt when they added it
uneven scarab
and then went oh im dumb this feels good
vale pine
I was dooming hard until i played it ngl
we made it work
once again subtlety did it
!
uneven scarab
i never doubted!!
keen dome
Hell yeah Sub is unkillable
hazy breach
the blades change is still unnecessary imo
uneven scarab
sub always cookin
keen dome
Ye, 100%
vale pine
the blades change is still unnecessary imo
make baldes passive during dance
uneven scarab
Yeah the blades thing seems dumb
keen dome
YES
uneven scarab
yes
vale pine
would slap soo hard
keen dome
Yeeees
uneven scarab
literally YES
hazy breach
Like ye sure blades needed to be weaker, but they could lower the damage it did instead of the duration
vale pine
there are a lot of bad things still
i am just happy we figured out a way to make it fun
even with the change
uneven scarab
It still kinda feels like how trickster dust did