subtlety

[smoky goblet]

jw do you get a buff when you pop SoD for Supercharge? i dont see anything even though im talented into it

[lucid beacon]

!talents

[edgy zenith]

If you have 3x symbols specced you'd use a symbols+dance set where the [] is at ~45 seconds on the first rotation, then the next time around you'd hold off with it

[lament orchid]

Anybody tryna drop the spec?

[crimson wind]

WHERE THE [] IS AT 45 WHAT DOES THAT MEAN

what is []

[edgy zenith]

you'd use a symbols+dance set where the [] is at ~45 seconds on the first rotation

you good?

[crystal spear]

how are the changes

[hazy breach]

The brackets in the sequence above

[hazy breach]

Which is in your picture

[vestal escarp]

[The Heart]

[crimson wind]

nah i think im having a stroke

[jade urchin]

is the wowhead rota prio cooked or are we actually using sectec outside of dance now

[edgy zenith]

we think so too, it's alrigth buddy

[crimson wind]

you dont understand it either ^

[edgy zenith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fC2oke5MFg

[lucid beacon]

probably to proc the tier set

[trail glen]

shadow dance maybe?

[hazy breach]

Does this help?

[near rivet]

next time it would be better to simply post 2 rotation variations, with talent and without

[edgy zenith]

disagree

[lucid beacon]

so what are the new talents

for raid

[edgy zenith]

it's fine the way it is

[crimson wind]

no

its just a box bro

[hazy breach]

Its []

[ ]

The box youre looking for

[crimson wind]

yes empty array

ah yes emtpy array

quite indeed the empty array

[smoky goblet]

ok but... if its an empty array how do i add to the array 🙂

[sullen hare]

absolute value of a vacuum

oh wait no that's | |

[edgy zenith]

dude, he's trolling surely

[opaque marten]

its very clear in the image

the rotation

[crimson wind]

i swear im not

[opaque marten]

the image says it clearly

[crimson wind]

im glad you find it clear shaow

[opaque marten]

u use shadow dance and simbols in the []

[edgy zenith]

dude, that first image you posted has your answer to everything

[keen dome]

The paragraph under it explains what we put in the box depending on if we have two or three symbols

[edgy zenith]

are you ESL?

[opaque marten]

if u have the talent then in the rotation screen u use shadow dance and symbols inside the []

[vestal escarp]

[]

[crimson wind]

if i wrote documentation like this at work i would get fired

[jade urchin]

this box convo gotta be the funniest thing here today

[crimson wind]

i understand it now

[sullen hare]

gotta laugh to keep from crying

[crimson wind]

but its a pepega way of writing it

[edgy zenith]

everyone understood it, but you

[tepid trellis]

you write it then

[edgy zenith]

is it the writing, or you?

[near rivet]

just pretend you know batshit about coding stuff and its easier

[vestal escarp]

Maybe bro just had a bad day at work

[opaque marten]

prolly

[vestal escarp]

And is venting on []

[opaque marten]

english is not even my main language and i still understood what the rotation picture says xd

[crimson wind]

i asked a genuine question and you guys were being cringe so i got frustrated yes

moving on now

[sullen hare]

[ ], hero of the sub rogues

[vestal escarp]

You asked a genuine question and one guy answered legitimately 2 times

[crimson wind]

hey guys i dont understand "uhh i understand its pretty obious"

[near rivet]

[ ] kinda reminds me of shadowdust

[crimson wind]

hey guys i still dont understand "this guys obviously trolling"

[hazy breach]

Idk you asked what brackets it was refering to

I showed you a paint picture with arrows pointing at it

[jade urchin]

that is true

oh lord [] is typing

[golden totem]

[] isnt even on the sims yet

poor boy

[vestal escarp]

So ... Since tomorrow is leaving us.... Can we get a [] role?

[ornate current]

reading is hard its ok

[tepid trellis]

no need to keep piling onto him

go on with your days

ty

[crimson wind]

i promise you smell like shit

[honest saddle]

That's how serial killers grow up to be serial killers. We must hold him accountable.

[jade urchin]

this isnt about him anymore, a religion was formed honestly

[honest saddle]

all hail () I will never worship []

you sick fucks might, but not me

me? I am reformed

[willow fulcrum]

lmao

wtf is going on here

[edgy zenith]

praise []

[willow fulcrum]

just press ur shit on cd move on with ur life who cares

[sly shore]

praise []

[viral phoenix]

just to double check would the "single target cleave" version of this build be going trickster and maybe dropping shadow focus for imp shuriken storm?

[bleak wind]

sooooo is it time for the deathstalker bug to be considered intentional and put in the sims orrrr

[vestal escarp]

[]

[willow fulcrum]

real talk tho

with 3 symbols in keys

its just dance every symbols still right

[edgy zenith]

in keys, probably yeah

[willow fulcrum]

ok bet

[ornate current]

[ ]

[willow fulcrum]

i cbf looking up new changes im just going to play

[honest saddle]

is there any in game indicator that supercharger is up

[willow fulcrum]

i dont think it matters does it

[honest saddle]

I am not seeing an aura, and I don't use game combo points

[edgy zenith]

your combo points look different

[willow fulcrum]

we dont have to min max anything for it ?

[hazy breach]

Yes, default cp is using the same animation as ER did

[edgy zenith]

it doesn't give an aura, no

[hazy breach]

But ye it doesnt really matter

[willow fulcrum]

ye u dont have to land on a specific cp anyymore or anything

its just more dmg

[edgy zenith]

not sure how to track it with WA currently

but you don't need to

so

[willow fulcrum]

yea

i wouldnt bother

[jade urchin]

is supercharged combo just flat +2 on current points now?

no more minigame?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[jade urchin]

meh

[hazy breach]

thats correct

Or well

+3 if you specced into it

[willow fulcrum]

i just hate that we play shuriken tornado

shuriken tornado is cringe

[hazy breach]

Then dont

[edgy zenith]

alright, I hit a dummy for like 6 mins, honestly, I don't hate it

[sudden hill]

sup guys, i'm a new sub player
are the buffs from today relevant? how are we feeling about it?

[willow fulcrum]

what should i ru instead of nado

[drifting fable]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jade urchin]

can only go veiltouched else no?

cause of flag path

[willow fulcrum]

ah ye

true

ur right

[sullen hare]

Quick question: Is there any point to take soothing darkness over leeching poison? I know the pin sims take soothing but why?

[hazy breach]

Neither are very strong

Do whatever your heart desires

[sullen hare]

I figured as much

[edgy zenith]

rip that one defensive talent, that shit was OP as fuck and I don't even remember its name

[wind canopy]

My heart desires bug fixes

[still crystal]

anyone know where the heroic timewalking cache quest is for this new classic TW shit

[flint umbra]

builds updated on wowhead?

[pulsar mauve]

This is not the current mark bug is it ? You are talking about another one ?

[sudden hill]

anyone?

[pulsar mauve]

4% buff, basically same relative power compared to assa. Gp change is personal. If you were playing dust you have less defensive capabilities

[sudden hill]

thanks!

[edgy zenith]

also, why are we running Trickster for keys? we still Nimble Flurrying?

thought BP was OP

[flint umbra]

BP?

[jade urchin]

black powder

[flint umbra]

oh duh

did it get buffed?

[barren gulch]

I don't exactly know why, but flurry is feelin pretty good rn

[jade urchin]

it got 35% (?) buff like 2-3 weeks ago

[barren gulch]

it also supercharged I guess

I haven't looked at the DS build yet

[graceful crown]

i will die on trickster hill

[flint umbra]

do you never cast slice and dice again?

[sullen hare]

essentially

[flint umbra]

sick

[jade urchin]

u can always just evisc over pressing slice and dice

which u do anyways with trickster

[graceful crown]

god bless trickster 🙏

[sullen hare]

someone hold me, I'm scared. I've had slice and dice bound to mousewheel up since 2005

[dire saddle]

We're still playing Deathstalker for ST raid?

[sullen hare]

I already miss it

[jade urchin]

fuu posted this earlier, deathstalker vs trickster single target

[woeful egret]

i've bound it to mousewheel down

[dire saddle]

Thanks goat

[sullen hare]

I'm retiring mousewheel up's jersey

[graceful crown]

somehow that's not too bad or different what

i expected it to be super lopsided

[jade urchin]

trickster has natural cleave in it too

[flint umbra]

you guys happy with the changes?

hows the damage

[jade urchin]

so outside of pure single target its probably better

which is only 2 / 8 fights

[edgy zenith]

huh...
my old slice and dice weak aura is currently loading even when never load is checked

wtf is going on

[woeful egret]

i'm trying to test tornado dance but the lag is being dumb

[edgy zenith]

don't hit dummy in Dornogal, go SW or Org

[woeful egret]

you do same dmg to them?

[edgy zenith]

ye

[sullen hare]

I'm not happy that they took tea out back and shot it but like any changes I suppose I'll just get used to them. I wish I was excited

[flint umbra]

whats wrong with tea?

[delicate prawn]

You can still use manually just auto triggers at 30 energy.

[sullen hare]

it was changed to automatically use a charge when you dip below 30 energy

[barren gulch]

^

[charred sandal]

john sub present at the function

[sullen hare]

you can still manually use it as Sicarius said but I'm just not a fan of the auto consume being tacked on

I'm not a consoomer

[vestal escarp]

John subtlety

I wonder what he thinks of his spec

[upper haven]

Does Sub perform as well as sin in m+ or is it just raids where they can be competitive?

[vestal escarp]

Bottom performer in m+ and flavor spec for raid

[upper haven]

Said in the pins it was competitive guess it was just talking about raid. That's unfortunate

[ornate current]

you play trickster

for all content

all target counts, since DS is bugged those are sims without the bug

[vestal escarp]

On st its not that behind sin

[fallow nimbus]

It could have been a choice node

[vestal escarp]

Its even a thing

At least two trees i dont remeber which have the same exact talent on a choice node with just a minuscule difference

Earthquake on ele i guess and another one

[thick temple]

is there an updated graphic for our 90 second window? Not sure how to proceed after the opener regarding rotation. After flag is it still 2 Dances/1 SoD then 1 empty sod then 1dance/1sod -> loop?

[hazy breach]

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1271971289396936735

Has some, but its not terribly pretty

[ornate current]

and dont ask about the [ ]

[sly shore]

[]

[sullen hare]

eleem has a writeup #1271971289396936735 message

[ornate current]

you dont wanna know

[thick temple]

oop

is the [ ] a meme or what

[hard plaza]

mage got nuked?

[jade urchin]

praise [ ]

[worn cliff]

anyone else having issues with their builder macro?

#showtooltip Shadowstrike
/cast [bonusbar:1] Shadowstrike; Backstab

[woeful egret]

like 1%

[thick temple]

is it still tbd or something?

[jade urchin]

oh no

not again

[analog grove]

quick question
did they change transmitter mini game?

[ornate current]

#subtlety message

start reading from here and have a laugh

[jade urchin]

[thick temple]

well

funny

[ornate current]

all praise the [ ]

[thick temple]

although im not sure what "if you have 3x symbols specced" means, am i having a stroke too

[ornate current]

the talent

[fallow nimbus]

What do you mean? Is it different now?

[ornate current]

we got

[jade urchin]

its a 2 point node

[ornate current]

you can have 3 symbol charges

[thick temple]

my wa is outdated ingame it is not showing in game for me

but makes sense i see

thats NEAT

[normal marten]

Anyone got a new raid talent spec and a m+ one yet?

[thick temple]

on wowhead

[normal marten]

just use those crap ones?

[thick temple]

idk didnt fuu make em are they really crap

[normal marten]

Im just gonna cry in Sub

[jade urchin]

being eu is lowkey peak rn

i can wake up in 8 hours and have everything solved probably

[thick temple]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[steel horizon]

That's probably because your WA is not set to show stacks/charges on symbols

[ornate current]

and non of em are updated that quick

wait a bit

or just add the argument to the SoD Wa thats tracking it

[steel horizon]

Takes 3 seconds to add another text element to the WA with %s (stack/charge count)

Literally add text element > type %s > press ok

[young path]

uhhh.... this is substantially higher than last week trickster

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8WthjZa7fhBe6sp9xn1Kr9

what did i do wrong?

[barren plume]

How we lookin

[candid field]

New to simming but by default does the sim use a flask of versatility or food? If not how can I add them

[prisma stump]

sub is the new busted spec

lezzz gooo

[hazy breach]

By default it uses alchemical chaos, which sims slightly higher than any of the other ones

But its in the options at the bottom of raidbots

[candid field]

thanks!

[thick temple]

thanks!

im back baby

[barren plume]

Sub is actually busted?

[vestal escarp]

All in all it's a crazy strong spec for 30s meta

[languid wharf]

Not for keys

Raid looking good

[edgy zenith]

wait, Sub was kinda cooking in keys

ngl

[fresh trail]

So what dmg are subs looking like now for m+? The loss of vanish reset sucks

[young path]

my sim went from 1.5mil dung slice, to 1.8...

[sweet summit]

sounding like we are so back

?

[steel horizon]

When you did your other same last week, did you also have all buffs enabled?

[young path]

HAHAHAHA

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2w4NYTM6CUmvNn59YXhqfE

assa sim

LOL

[sweet summit]

hopefully rotation gets updated soon

[young path]

somethings got to be broken here

[hazy breach]

Wdym

[sweet summit]

i wanna c optimal rotation im still learning

did it not change ?

[young path]

trickster really about to top assa in dungeon slice?

[sweet summit]

we dont SND anymore ik that

is that all that changed ?

[hazy breach]

Yes subterfuge isnt being used well in the default apl

Its gonna get fixed soon but assa still better by a long shot

[steel horizon]

Even before today, my sub always simd higher than sin and I just assumed it was because I have like 7 million vers

[edgy zenith]

Eleem, we still BP at like 5+ targets on trickster or?

[young path]

...just lie to me please... i need that rn LOL

[hazy breach]

no

[thick temple]

small quirk, supposed to be %2.s so it displays how many charges whilst SoD is active.

[edgy zenith]

never press BP as trickster?

[sweet summit]

fuck im just gonna forget everything i knew and wait for 2 days for things to get tested lmao

[steel horizon]

Ahh ok. Thanks for letting me know

[hazy breach]

Wowhead and https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1271971289396936735 both have the new info

[velvet idol]

what is bp?

[hazy breach]

[sweet summit]

inshallah i will learn

[young path]

i mean thats a technique, but i wouldnt recommend that

[hazy breach]

Technically at like 12 or 13 you could BP and it would do slightly more

But practically it doesnt really matter

[edgy zenith]

is it that weird FW shit?

still?

like 8+ FW targets or whatever?

[teal night]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gritty knot]

So seeing that 1,8 Million DMG sim, I wonder If that's just buggy or what happened? Because they didn't change too much did they or did they actually fixed some Bugs finally? The Changes should be around a 4% DMG increase only right?

[vague oar]

is tripple dance dedge?

[jade urchin]

yes

[vague oar]

[gritty knot]

I would actually love to Play Sub again in Higher Keys since I will have a lot more versa again in comparison to playing assa with my 3% Vers rn 😂

[uneven scarab]

Idk if this is a me thing but coup wasnt working at all on the world bosses in anniversary zone

[vague oar]

so i guess we just perma hold symbols for dance now since we have charges?

[jade urchin]

it works in dungeons etc, its kinda bugged in overworld

[uneven scarab]

Thanks blizz

[jade urchin]

its explained in the tc thread

[young path]

282k 7pt evis plus nimble hitting for 141 upto 8 (1.2mil)... versus 7pt BP hitting for 160k (1.28 mil) upto 8

[jade urchin]

here

[young path]

BP only even at 8 targets

[vague oar]

ty solo ily

[young path]

goes up w/reduced effect beyond

[hazy breach]

What are these numbers even

Youre ignoring like half of the things that affect it

[young path]

my in game evis tooltip

[hazy breach]

Ye tooltips are inaccurate as hell

[young path]

would those same things buff bp too?

[uneven scarab]

You legit cannot go off tooltips

they are not to be trusted ever

[hazy breach]

You wont have 100% uptime on find weakness on every target

[young path]

thats fair... just like nimble was 40%? lolz

[hazy breach]

You wont have 100% uptime on fazed on every target

[young path]

who can we even trust anymore!

[jade urchin]

the sims soon hopefully

[steel horizon]

The assassination dev

[young path]

well my sim has trickster substanially beating assa... so... make it make sense

[jade urchin]

thats why i said soon and not right now

cause lord knows if thats an accurate statement

[vivid cobalt]

did something happen to make trickster better in m+ again

[candid field]

shadow blades after secret technique?

[young path]

no idea, i just listen to fuu... occasionaly armin

but he gets prickly

[jade urchin]

its to get second sectec in the flsg window iirc

[candid field]

does it not do more doing it before?

[hazy breach]

Shadow blades do not work on secret technique anyway. But its to make sure you get enough cdr for sectech to be able to be used in your second dance

[candid field]

didnt know thanks!

[hazy breach]

Good for you

[uneven scarab]

why have we been forsaken

[hazy breach]

Its never worked

Its not a new bug

[uneven scarab]

well i know but it should

It makes 0 sense that it doesnt

[civic lake]

why is it blades after tech now?

[sweet summit]

when 2 send transmitter ? same as before ?

[prisma stump]

any talent changes for us?>

[pliant topaz]

I personally listen to you

[jade urchin]

it says in opener i linker 10 ishmessages ago

wait it doesnt

but it does on wowhead

opener is updated there already

[summer lynx]

Are we going trickster or death for single target?

[young path]

i take your advice too

[jade urchin]

deathstalker sims 2.5% higher st rn

so go what u prefer kinda

[bitter gate]

Just discovered mad queens has a cast time!? Guess we don't use that during burst windows then? feels so clunky

[summer lynx]

Okay I wasnt sure if the bug was in the sim or in game that was mentioned in the pin so.

[lilac stag]

DS sims are also inflated

[young path]

(odd sense of humor and addicted to playing sub... sorry)

[hazy breach]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/srKxEAs2mM29tuozK2vK7k

[lilac stag]

Gottem

[young path]

got what? thats awesome

(if it was real)

[hazy breach]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-gif-26460616

[lilac stag]

The previous was surprised at how big their sub sim was. Keep up.

Assa dwarfed it. Same gear most likely.

[edgy zenith]

listen to Eleem, fuu, and Armin. solo sometimes (love you bud)

[lilac stag]

solo only hangs out in pirate channel

[proven plover]

Solo is gone

[jade urchin]

solo is here

[proven plover]

Oh

Ok

Imposter

[hazy breach]

Green solo banned himself for a forced vacation from here

[steel horizon]

Wait, what did u change from his?

[hazy breach]

It do be like that sometimes

[lilac stag]

Specs

[honest saddle]

why do we blades after the first sec tech

[lilac stag]

Way to confuse the fuck out of half the sub player base @hazy breach

[honest saddle]

wouldnt we want the initial hit to benefit from blades?

[lilac stag]

No

16 seconds

[hazy breach]

Swapped to a better talent build, but also added some parts of whats linked in #1065730164077645916 for updates to how the Aoe sim handles subterfuge, which is getting looked over and should be defaut fairly soon

[hazy breach]

No i responded to his assa sim. Because he was saying how it was lower than the sub one

[jade urchin]

@honest saddle

[lucid jackal]

why am I randomly getting combo points now, did something change

[lilac stag]

Hah. I missed that one.

[honest saddle]

thanks

[hazy breach]

Like completely randomly?

[edgy zenith]

you mean coup shadowcraft or?

[hazy breach]

Or is shadowcraft giving refunds when they shouldnt

[steel horizon]

I noticed this too over the past couple days lol

[lucid jackal]

Like Ill be at 3 combo points and then I'll gain +4 randomly

[edgy zenith]

oh, I did notice that on opener sometimes actually

[hazy breach]

No idea

If it isnt WM

[edgy zenith]

only ever happened during opening shadowstrike

for me anyway

[jade urchin]

shadowcraft stacks from previous opener attempt?

for dummy opener

[edgy zenith]

nah

I'll smack a dummy for a bit and see if I can get a clip

[jade urchin]

[prisma stump]

bro sub feels so slow now without dust

wtf

[smoky goblet]

i assume theres basically no DPS loss at this point if you hold vanish i assume? its just for a quick CP gain

[ivory swallow]

!build

!talent

I've tried hahaha

[barren plume]

Changes super good or what

[jade urchin]

speeds up opener and with deathstalker gives easier mark reset outside of dance

but ye pretty much free to use especially with trickster

[edgy zenith]

I actually kinda like it, ngl. kinda feels less clunky than last patch

[steel horizon]

Yeah it's for the opener pretty much

[edgy zenith]

not sure why, but definitely feels a little better imo

[jade urchin]

cant wait to try it tomorrow

[woeful egret]

It felt good to me, we won't talk about how it compared to my dps as sin >.>

[edgy zenith]

and I was a big time trickstter dust enjoyer

but I kidna like this more

[jade urchin]

from my feeling reading the changes it feels like a lower cd sin with deathmark kingsbane windows no?

does that make sense

[plush roost]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[edgy zenith]

also I've been hitting dummy for like 10 mins, no dice on that CP bug Forever was talking about

but I know it's a real thing, because I had it happen to me once as well

I think it's something to do with Supercharger

but that's just my tin-foil hat idea

[jade urchin]

its ER interactions all over again

[edgy zenith]

literally

yeah

[jade urchin]

hopefully they get fixed bit faster this time

[edgy zenith]

kinda feels like havoc DH in a weird way

if you've played current Havoc

[jade urchin]

i havent

ive been stuck on rogue for like 1 year ish

but i assume eye beam meta windows is what u mean

with big meta

[edgy zenith]

yeah basically

[jade urchin]

yeah makes sense

[edgy zenith]

very similar damage profile

and the whole like sigil of flames being 30s, but you hold for your EB, but sometimes you can just send your sigil natty if the pack is almost dead

you can kinda do the same thing with Symbols and Dance

[honest saddle]

do we think its smarter to treacherous when we flag

so we have time to gather it

[edgy zenith]

I macro flag and transmitter, yes

[honest saddle]

the sim assumes we get it insta

which isnt real life

[lilac stag]

Prepull. Collect with flag

[edgy zenith]

you want it on your first evis now?

[jade urchin]

slice and dice keybind freed

might as well use it for tribket now

[hazy breach]

Nah the sim uses it on flag but picks it up when dance is up

And then theres a 1-3 second random delay before it gets the buff

[edgy zenith]

I was using with Flag still, and as long as you insta jump 0.1s after flag, you can get the next 2 jumps off before sectech

and if it's collect, you can easily get before sectech

[young path]

no, didnt respond because i was in a key

[hazy breach]

Huh

[young path]

but here I am!

[wind canopy]

[]

[honest saddle]

need to macro flag to jump

[edgy zenith]

praise be []

[jade urchin]

[ ] indeed

[plush pilot]

this is probably a noob question, but i wanna make sure before i pick from vault. can i use two of the same dagger?

[jade urchin]

yes

[edgy zenith]

as long as it doesn't say "unique"

[plush pilot]

yeah sick. cheers!

[lilac stag]

you sure about that?

[jade urchin]

true but i dont think theres any unique daggers rn

[edgy zenith]

look like two lines down

it'll say treacherous transmitter again

that's the collect

[lilac stag]

it uses it on pull, not on flag

i'm not talking about the collect

[edgy zenith]

oh, yeah sorry

[jade urchin]

i mean as long as u get it before first sectech its all gucci prolly

[lilac stag]

the pickup is dance so yeah it's whatever

[pliant topaz]

its either coup or RS

[lilac stag]

I think it's RS

[pliant topaz]

they both do it

[lucid jackal]

OH REPLICATING
thats it

Why does replicating do it

[lilac stag]

which is kinda funny, everything smooth because of it

[lucid jackal]

I dont understand

[hazy breach]

Say youre at 5 cp and use eviscerate - no shadowcraft refund
But then you auto attack and proc sht so you go to 7 with 0.2s left of your gcd, then youll get the refund 0.2s before your next gcd instead of when you used eviscerate

Why? Because who knows, its been the case since 10.2

And its really annoying

[royal bronze]

I thought they were removing SnD as a finisher and making it passive in this patch? Did that get revoked?

[hazy breach]

Well eviscerate procs it

So you dont have to cast it

But you can still cast it

[royal bronze]

Ohhh

Weird design choice, but okay

[jaunty heath]

what weakauras are up to date

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[hollow needle]

With 10 tries i'm 10 for 10, after vanish, I'm still in combat and no SS goes off it's a backstab.. Do I need to get the no combat vanish macro now?

[modern marten]

Does it always proc it and does it have to be at certain combo points? idk if im lagging or something but sometimes SnD doesn't proc

[hazy breach]

Dont think coup procs it

But regular eviscerates should always

[honest saddle]

whats our benefit to vanish global 4

extra cp from something?

[hazy breach]

premed

[honest saddle]

thanks

[hazy breach]

Its also why we can delay blades

[edgy zenith]

coup does not proc it, correct

[hazy breach]

Because we get full cp from the vanish strike and the dance strike anyway

[barren plume]

how bigs the change for sub i see you all talkin im finally at my pc

[lilac stag]

4% from previous. Nothing changed since Sunday

[edgy zenith]

okay, but we should not play DS rn currently, right?

because bugs?

in any content?

[honest saddle]

really don't like that sod can overwrite sod

bad qol

[edgy zenith]

wdym?

[honest saddle]

DS is still best for ST

just because it has bugs, its still better or on par with trick

[edgy zenith]

you can use SoD if current SoD has less than 3s left

[honest saddle]

you can no longer have it on a mouse wheel keybind, too risky

[edgy zenith]

wat

[honest saddle]

you risk using 2 charges

[edgy zenith]

you were putting SoD on mouse wheel at some point?

that is fucking WILD

[honest saddle]

why?

[edgy zenith]

it's not ironfur, blood

[honest saddle]

you were putting ironfur blood on mouse wheel at some point?

that is W I L D

don't you know that cloak is best used on mouse wheel click

and feint has to be tilde?

[edgy zenith]

yep, not up on that one

mb

[umbral apex]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mJpqcFCxZ1wDatkH#fight=6&type=damage-done hollyyy, 1.9mil on sik 😮

sub is back for us casual players?

[lilac stag]

Heroic and sub have always been fine.

[umbral apex]

yayyy

[edgy zenith]

im so glad I raid Wed so I can see the logs before raid 🙂

you guys be the guineau pigs 🙂

[honest saddle]

I mean its a 2 minute fight

[edgy zenith]

I mean still, top log was 1.5M last patch

now it's 1.9M, and this probably wasn't perfect play

[young path]

jeez, u guys just cant let anyone be excited ffs... lol

[edgy zenith]

unless Keoni is just different

seems like Sub is kinda banging

[umbral apex]

oh that's not me

I was just looking at sub logs

[edgy zenith]

oh, well this guy is definitely not playing optimally

looking at casts

so, Sub will go even higher than that

[umbral apex]

hyped!

[young path]

just moved some gear around and almost matched @hazy breach 's fake assa sim for me... came in like maybe 40k less as trickster

[hazy breach]

?

[edgy zenith]

holy shit eleem is this true

are you faking sims

[craggy quest]

7 mil evisc in that log

is that normally lol

[tidal python]

Same person also has the rank 1 (all specs) parse on Bloodbound horror right now

[young path]

i dunno... https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xgKSWKxe1TriHyUmJZzVqH

plz tell me what im messing up (which I also, already asked)

fake assa one was what... 2.04?

[old anchor]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[half comet]

is sub slighty worse with no dust on silken since its harder to fit in sec tecs in dmg amp

or does it rly not matter

[lucid jackal]

Why do sims suggest RS but shadow techniques sims higher?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ff5wwyn1n3q6gSN88vKvre

[surreal siren]

guys, how could it be that sims advices me to have haste+bit of vers gems instead of mastery+vers? Do we have necessary cap for haste or?

[pliant topaz]

because with the gear that the best profile was made improved sht < RS

[lucid jackal]

What gear makes that difference

[hazy breach]

RS is for aoe, thats singletarget no?

[edgy zenith]

I had a 3M on a dummy rn unbuffed no pot

[hazy breach]

But also idk something got updated and the default profile sim went down like 150k

[hazy breach]

Idk probably just misspasted code or something, idk what fuu was cooking there

[pliant topaz]

RS did sim better

like 0.2% better than improved sht

[hazy breach]

Wasnt that only for aoe

[pliant topaz]

nope

pure single target

[lucid jackal]

What part of the gear makes the difference there though

[craggy quest]

[hazy breach]

Dont think anything did, raidbots is just funky, you shouldnt be simming 1.1m

Baseline profile when i simmed like 20 mins ago was at 1.5m but now its at 1.341 for some reason with no changes

[lucid jackal]

I have no custom APL if I'm suppose to

[hazy breach]

No

[lilac stag]

on a dummy i've not been energy starved at all using rs

[lucid jackal]

I just do what sims tell me to

[surreal siren]

can anyone help me to sort this thing? Im just about to follow sims and put haste gems

[hazy breach]

Cant even use a custom APL because it tells me death_perception is not a valid talent anymore

Something got scuffed with versions

[pliant topaz]

ill check

[lilac stag]

i had to use ptr sim

[bleak wind]

what does swift death even do with new timers?

[hazy breach]

Ye enabling ptr fixes it

[lucid jackal]

Can u check my sim again with that on?

Pulling queen now

doubt it really moves the needle either way

[pliant topaz]

gets u more sods

more cdr

more dance

more cps

[tribal blade]

wow crashes literally every single time i try to open it

i love this game

[hazy breach]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b4bLbmsjBpU3GunEDAbU5H

RS still shows as better ye, but probably not worth it either way

[pliant topaz]

nightly works for me too

[hazy breach]

Because of the refund bugs

[pliant topaz]

it is. trust

[bleak wind]

ye but which sod is the extra one? looking at the timers it just pops every 30 sec

[pliant topaz]

if u can learn to play with the bugs its a lot btter

u legit dont ever notice improved sht's energy

i havent in the 2 dungeons ive done

[silent cairn]

why are we Sec Tech before SB now in Wowhead opener?

[hazy breach]

Because you use premed for the cps before it

So you can effectively have "more" uptime of blades, now that theyve reduced the duration of it to 16

[pliant topaz]

blades 16 sec so u delay sectech to maximize effective blades gcds (sectech isnt one of them since it doesnt work with blades, and premed wastes the cps )

[pliant topaz]

are u sure? it shouldnt one sec

[pliant topaz]

are u using the new apl?

[hazy breach]

It should be default on raidboys (not editing the typo)

[bleak wind]

I just glanced over some samples, could just be misreading it

[sweet summit]

this shit feeling kinda smooth

thoughts

[dire geyser]

are any of the brd trinkets/weapons good?

[hazy breach]

Nop

[dire geyser]

dam ok

[fleet sparrow]

Is the brd stuff same ilvl /tracks to np?

[hazy breach]

Regular items are fine, theyre just hc items

[lucid jackal]

Dude this new sub feels so good

[bleak wind]

also is the evis doing insane damage bug back or something looking at the hc logs, that damage on evis does not look ok

[lucid jackal]

Imagine doubting Supercharger

[hazy breach]

Ye idk looks like theres some of that going on

Sims have evis at like 33%

Those logs have it at like 45%

[bleak wind]

the dude is hitting 7 mil evis

[lucid jackal]

if I can't vanish in opener for queen how should I play it do you think?

[bleak wind]

on sikran

[fleet sparrow]

So the the tldr is still shit but feels nicer?

[edgy zenith]

yeah, it's always his first evis after his second dance

does liek 2x damage

not sure

I'm hitting a dummy and not getting anything like that

around 3M

[fleet sparrow]

Does supercharger interact with coup?

[hazy breach]

strike > evis > (optionally cry) backstab until 7 > flag > resume as normal

[craggy quest]

gotta account for the uhhh

[lucid jackal]

Just delay flag got it

tyty

[craggy quest]

2.25% buff but i doubt its helping that much

[jaunty heath]

how does it even work, the "supercharged" points arent showing up for me

[hazy breach]

It only does with default ui

[lucid jackal]

Theres no reason to track it anyway so

its just ur next finisher after symbols is bigger

that's all it does

but it helps with CDR

And the charges of SOD feel super nice

[pliant topaz]

@bleak wind it sods very fast

[left ledge]

huh wait a minute

i just realized something

[edgy zenith]

yeah wait, wtf is going on with Sub logs. these Evis's in these logs do not make sense. there is no way DPS pot and full raid buffs makes me do 7M from 3M, right?

[left ledge]

ive spent over 100 dollars just paying to be able to play this game since the expac launched, and one of the specs in the game is still infested with bugs

[craggy quest]

it would be pretty funny if the bug from before was brought back

[left ledge]

yeah haha how funny would that be

it would also be pretty funny if they just completely ignored the fact that some of these talents havent worked since DF

[craggy quest]

What if deathstalker got fixed

[bleak wind]

those are just a side effect of having multiple charges though right? is it the same later in the fight

[lilac stag]

deathstalker can fuck off

[fickle sequoia]

Hey Guys one question for American players how is the Sub rogue in 11.0.5. Does is feel stronger

[left ledge]

are you too far into prog to just go assa

[pliant topaz]

yeah it just holds longer later in the fight

[lilac stag]

it feels 4% stronger

[left ledge]

because give it another week and assa might get another 6% buff

they need it

[fickle sequoia]

im mean if the other spec is trash atleast make the spec busted

[vale lagoon]

man

am i stupid

i can't figure out the custom apl thing

[left ledge]

im already some dumbass gnome for queen because i have no faith for this spec

[hazy breach]

You dont need to

[vale lagoon]

oh i can just sim normally now?

💕

[hazy breach]

Use nightly on raidbots

Latest seem to have something wonky going on

[vale lagoon]

pog

and yeah nightly sims are kinda making sense

spyglass simming almost a whole percent higher than sacbrood tho

kinda crazy

[smoky aspen]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[lucid jackal]

Need p1 first platform damage

and the 1 web set

Literally all I do on the fight

[edgy zenith]

it feels quite a bit different than live. I like it. don't know about numbers, did a couple keys and it was quite a bit better than trickster keys I was doing last week

[fickle sequoia]

ahh nice to hear

[craggy quest]

just did a sikran and this was my highest hitting evisc

[ivory swallow]

/wa

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[left ledge]

i fear i may tweak if this becomes my job

[lucid jackal]

Got some bad news bud

[left ledge]

surely it wont be

we kill court this week

SURELY i wont have to play this version of sub rogue

[lilac stag]

youre a p1 bitch have fun gnomie

[vestal escarp]

We talked about this

[pliant topaz]

idk man its kinda fun

[left ledge]

yeah...

[hazy breach]

You gnome or nah

[vestal escarp]

Raid leader has to paypal all the queen roster the faction/race change

[lucid jackal]

Yeh

[left ledge]

i tried it out

just feels like dust but more ass

[left ledge]

im sadly also gnome now

tragic

[hazy breach]

Ima try not being gnome since we have to break like 3 people out anyway

But im probably just gonna end up needing to go gnome anyway

[left ledge]

you dont even have to be a gnome

if you hold vanish

[hazy breach]

You do

[left ledge]

what why

[hazy breach]

Vanish first > cloak second > ??? > Vanish 4th

[lilac stag]

good news. character services are on sale in the wow shop

[left ledge]

oh ok

my third one

we kill

so idk

[hazy breach]

Ye

Thats what im saying

[left ledge]

i wasnt assigned to gnoming that anyways

but i guess yeah

if you wanna get all 4

[hazy breach]

Well if you dont gnome earlier

[vestal escarp]

Houdini

[left ledge]

i mean im just gnome anyways hoping to god i can play assa on the fight and actually do boss damage

[hazy breach]

You could also play assa with 2x vanish charges

[left ledge]

that

sounds cursed as fuck

[hazy breach]

And not have to be gnome

Its like -2% compared to standard build

[vestal escarp]

Huge MA

[left ledge]

yeah -2% if you're using the vanishes

LOL

[hazy breach]

Where 1-1.2% of that can be regained by being orc

What

[left ledge]

you would have to use both vanishes for root break

and not be able to use them for dps

[hazy breach]

The first one lines up fairly well anyway

[left ledge]

really?

its that early?

i didnt really look at timers i assumed it was similar to heroic timers for tombs

[hazy breach]

17 seconds in, so you'd have to hold a little bit

[left ledge]

oh

thats actually not bad at all

wtf lmao

and the last set is ~2 mins after right

like 2 min 5 sec?

[hazy breach]

2:16

[left ledge]

i mean

can still vanish it i guess

[vestal escarp]

Escape Artist

[left ledge]

if you perfectly time stuff

but im a gnome so

[vestal escarp]

Little Human

[lucid jackal]

Yeah idk symbols charges are such a game changer, I already liked the spec before but the awkward trickster perfect globals 3 sectec shit was super annoying

[ivory swallow]

Still using death to full single right?

Deathstalker?

[lilac stag]

[left ledge]

not necessarily

just go trickster

deathstalker is bugged

[vestal escarp]

Tie for ST

[left ledge]

deathstalker is SUPPOSED to be ahead in ST

[wind canopy]

This is like you IRL except short

[pliant topaz]

okay but can you test something? the set you were vanishing because you were in cds, cant u just feint (since its off gcd) and blow up the tomb with cds so u keep vanish for a different set?

[mighty delta]

whats up with the changes do we no longer need to apply slice n dice in the opener?

[leaden prairie]

armin are you here

[leaden prairie]

ty armin i went to whospar instead

[trail cave]

does the crit strike dmg buff from momentum of despair work for all crit dmg? or just bp and ss?

[hazy breach]

Just BP and SS

[tribal blade]

hey i need help, i'm having this issue with mac

and i do have custom fonts loaded

question is, do i just delete the entire fonts folder?

this folder

[rain meadow]

is supercharged working with darkest night?

[wispy bolt]

nimble flurry isnt casting. its up and it just keeps glowing through evis and never castss

just started. i even restarted

[steel horizon]

u mean coup?

[runic sequoia]

speaking of supercharged, it just works like ER right? my ui shows 6 out of 7 CP are supercharged lol

[hazy breach]

I assume you mean coup, but ye thats an old bug that happens sometimes

Relogg usually fixes it

[wispy bolt]

yeah coup

my b

i restarted already and its persisting

[steel horizon]

damn we really not running imp shuriken storm on the raid cleave build? muh find weakness though?

[hazy breach]

Nah run imp storm over sf

SF doesnt do much

[steel horizon]

thats what i thought yea

replicating shadows in st is a funny one though lol

i guess there isnt much better

[delicate ridge]

the fact that supercharging a full bar is possible seems like a prepull nightmare but hopefully not

good ol sanctum using tomes in the opener

[hazy breach]

It resets to 2 on boss pull

[delicate ridge]

ok thank fk

[silent cairn]

so 2 SDs and two SB during opener, third symbols at 40 should match up with a SD on trickster or is it still naked with death perception and stuff

i miss the little time table graphic on the symbols optimization it was my savior lol

[dire saddle]

What's the DM bug?

[mighty delta]

overall are we better in mythic + at all

[rough sigil]

I can only log on right before raid, can someone give me the tldr on the new rotation if any?

[tropic pier]

Is it just me or this routing in the spec tree looks insane to me. I've played a lot of different classes and have never seen a perimeter route like this through the spec tree.

[stiff spear]

Looking at the new ST opener in the guide, what's the reason we're using Shadow Blades after the first SecTec now?

[hazy breach]

We use premed for the earlier finishers

And shadow blades doesnt work on sectech anyway

Mostly because blades is shorter now

[frank bobcat]

was taking a look at simc and the TC thread - are we alternating 3 cds (SD+Sod, SD+Sod, SOD alone) and 1 cd set (SD+SOD) after our big cds

[stiff spear]

ah, fair. Thanks

[mighty delta]

i would like this too pls

[rough sigil]

where did you see new opener? I may have missed it

[stiff spear]

It's up on WoWhead under Rotation

[mighty delta]

its on wowhead, i dont understand that either tho

[rough sigil]

oh ok thank you

[stiff spear]

this is gonna take some muscle memory unlearning

[rustic goblet]

so, if I were to decide to make the switch to sub, how competitive is it in m+ is it middle of the pack?

[stiff spear]

dunno how it is now with patch but it's been down bad

imho

[rustic goblet]

okay, when you say down bad, what do you mean by that?

but yeah, I've been eyeing it up because it just seems like a really cool version of sub

[lucid beacon]

we should have 5 dances

and 10 charges of sumbols

[fiery fog]

just make dance be active all the time

its that simple

[stiff spear]

I only played Sub keys in like... week 1 so take it with a grain of salt, but it didn't feel good , didn't do dmg outside of cds which you didn't have every pack and Assass is comparatively SO much easier

[vague oar]

Does anyone have an issue where they're using 2 charges of symbol on pull when it should be using 1?

Idk if I'm just like spamming the button on accident or not

[tame stratus]

@hazy breach you think patch is a net gain or loss for sub on silken court?

[frank bobcat]

its definitely a gain

but understanding why and where you use cooldowns is gonna take some time

[tame stratus]

you loose a cd use during amp

[frank bobcat]

oh if your asking about a certain fight, i just meant in general

my b

[tame stratus]

only silken court

[vague oar]

I know it's just heroic but I fucking piped court. Did 1.8m dps. A lot higher than I was last week. Idk about mythic tho

[frank bobcat]

yea silken gonna be weird

[dire saddle]

This new opener feels so weird to do

[rustic goblet]

it is, but at the same time, I am a casual player, not looking to get title, so if it is middle of the pack, I am completely fine with that, but if it's at the very bottom, I don't want to grief my keys

[trail glen]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[stiff spear]

can always give it a try in some low keys, see how it feels for ya!

[left ledge]

there it is

the prepull

+100 dps

[bitter gate]

any tips for using mad queens? finally got it but that cast timer.... oof

just wait till downtime? like 25 seconds in?

[void mesa]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[stone raptor]

is there any reason to not just macro flagellation and shadow blades together?

[hazy breach]

Theyre not used together

Or rather not at the same time

[stone raptor]

ahh I see

[vague oar]

ok i'm def double tapping it. is there a way to macro symbols to not double tap?

[left ledge]

#showtooltip
/cast !Symbols of Death

that should work

nvm

it dont work

copy the breath macro

from fdk

[smoky aspen]

did they hotfix getting supercharged combo points before pull? 20 minutes ago I could but now its not showing up

[hazy breach]

Does it remove all of them now? Used to reset you down to 2 on ptr

[tribal blade]

committing to the assassination

[barren wren]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[hazy breach]

Gz

[molten citrus]

/cast Pillar of Frost
/cast !Breath of Sindragosa
/cast Raise Dead
/use trinket```
this?

don't think that works

for symbols

[left ledge]

yeah

ofc it wouldnt

[left ledge]

no

you still get 2

im on court rn doing it

[pliant topaz]

sry was in raid whatsup

[molten citrus]

i think he went to bed

[vague oar]

yea i think the breath macro just makes it so u don't accidentally cancel breath

guess if anyone can think of a way to make it so you don't double tap it just lmk cause its super annoying rn

[wise oracle]

how do they keep making sub feel worse

i hate this

[bitter gate]

It does seem to feel worse to me now. Probably because you cant macro shit together anymore

[tribal blade]

ok lol spinner neck is way better in dslice for sin over special neck

[vague oar]

honestly i kinda like it more now. only thing thats anoying me is i k eep wasting symbol charges

[silent cairn]

so is the naked symbols at like 30 ish now?

im so used to 10 40 65 90

[wispy bolt]

brood is so hard on mythic, not because its hard, but because the server/game lags so fucking bad

they make a WA required fight and the WA makes the game unplayable

[molten citrus]

i don't believe it's possible

[vague oar]

qq

[molten citrus]

i think symbols pandemics still

but that's still not optimal for pve i'd assume (i'm a pvp main these days so no idea)

[vague oar]

my problem is just

i press my buttons like 4 times when i need to use something

so i end up just using all of it at once

[steel sierra]

Are we ideally using SecT on the supercharged combo point each SoD?

[pliant topaz]

yea

kinda

[molten citrus]

you don't have to hit the charged point directly

[pliant topaz]

ideally yes. realistically no

depends on builds

[ivory swallow]

Parses on princess...

[molten citrus]

just gotta be careful to hit it once >_<

[ivory swallow]

WTF?

[solemn sonnet]

dang we don't have shadow cloak for every shattering sweep on sikran anymore

[pliant topaz]

nope

[solemn sonnet]

nearly died reclearing it

[topaz hedge]

Is anyone else getting this CD for shadow blades? I linked it in chat and everyone saw 1.5 min, but when I activate it's as 72 second CD. I may be missing something, but I don't see any other CDs having reduction and no talents affecting it

[rocky carbon]

!WA

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[molten citrus]

you're pvp talented into Thief's Bargain lol

[topaz hedge]

Ah I'm dumb, I forgot I was in WM

ty haha

[molten citrus]

i'd drop that as a pvp talent if you pvp at all, just fyi

[runic panther]

damn EU up already

[topaz hedge]

I haven't pvp'd at all with rogue in years, but I was gonna get started trying this season. TY for the tip. I never played Sub before now at all so idk what's good from just lookin at it

[manic island]

so were sticking with DS this patch right

[soft summit]

Do you macro symbols of death with anything and if so, how do you stop it from blowing extra charges as a button spammer

[soft summit]

i was hoping so but wowhead is saying use trickster

[manic island]

i keep hearing different shit so im kinda confused

[molten citrus]

ah word, well if you do and ya need anything #pvp

[molten citrus]

i don't think you can

[vale lagoon]

yo is it just me

or is sub playable in keys now lol

cds actually feel kinda nice now

[manic island]

what you playing tricks or DS?

[keen path]

I did a key as trickster before and it felt amazing tbh

[vale lagoon]

trickster

my overall a lot higher

or a bit higher

not a lot

[muted agate]

this elemental damage

is illegal

bro

[manic island]

so tea is dead?

rip

[lethal thorn]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[muted agate]

i removed tornado for veiltouched

hehe

[vale lagoon]

same

fk tornado

[umbral apex]

just tried some trickster keys

it does nindeed feel very nice

[stone raptor]

Is supercharger supposed to have any visual indicator, or is it just an invisible buff?

[manic island]

i just did a 5 to test

wasnt bad

felt better for sure

[alpine wraith]

for supercharger you get the shiny combopoints like if ER was up

[vale lagoon]

AK 11+2 ez for me

cds are real comfortable now

even tho dmg is still a bit low overall

[bronze hatch]

hi hello im the problem it's me

the sky is not falling and sub is fine

[ivory fractal]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Bugs - Subtlety Rogue

[young path]

Curious what u came in at… a lot has to do with pull size

[deft oar]

doing the transmitter jump puzzle as a dracthyr sucks kek

[lucid jackal]

Dude sub feels

Absolute Cinema right now

They really cooked

Supercharger goat

[vale lagoon]

almost 1.7 mil

[rough sigil]

Yea I was coming in here to say I def enjoyed my raid night tonight. Need to see the dmg in dungeons but otherwise I am enjoying the changes, still confused on when to use the other symbols though

[rough sigil]

enjoying it for sure

[vale lagoon]

we only ahd 1 big pull

[umbral apex]

how do we deal with the orb affix this week? I've tried blind but it only works on 1 orb

[deft oar]

target a regular mob

then it will cleave

[proper fulcrum]

blind an actual npc, not the orb and it should mass blind

[umbral apex]

thanks!

[minor seal]

where can we find updatd talent builds for sub with the changes?

[lucid jackal]

They fixed literally all the issues of the spec I had

[vale lagoon]

tbh i think there's one issue left