subtlety

[tepid trellis]

shadowed finishers + nimble makes a fucked up cocktail

[ornate current]

Someone said this a long time ago just gonna quote it "Ninjas ruined this spec"

[hard ember]

sectec is fine

[ornate current]

Can we just go back to armour reducing non shadow bs

[hard ember]

is FW working on it?

[tribal blade]

i'd like to see evis and BP turned into purely shadow damage

why not

[haughty mural]

yesyesyes

[hazy breach]

Lets assume fw is up on all targets and no fazed for the comparison:
Your eviscerate does 100 damage before armor, 50% of that will cleave.
So to your main target it will do 100*0.77= 77 physical
It will cleave 100 x 0.5 x 0.77= 38.5 physical

To your main target it will do 30 shadow damage (assuming no VT/DD/DB)
And because nimble is physical it will cleave 30 x 0.5 x 0.77 = 11.55

[hard ember]

ah

[ornate current]

Makse sense since nimble isnt a finisher it just takes all the dmg and 50% converts to physical

[hard ember]

i feel dumb that i've never thought about armor for this but does blade flurry work the same way

for outlaw

[vale pine]

i think nimble flurry damage should be shadow

problem sovled

[hazy breach]

Yes

[ornate current]

Honestly yes

If we went the Shadow dmg fantasy since legion than keep it up

Why even make it physical

Guess cuz outlaw shares the hero talent?

[tribal blade]

iirc for outlaw it just increases BF damage

[ornate current]

Wouldn't make much sense for them spec fantasy wise

[vale pine]

does not matter, nimble works diffrently for them

[tribal blade]

something like +15% bladeflurry damage or something like that

[short radish]

yeah

[vale pine]

even worse

[hard ember]

but also https://i.imgur.com/5PcFTEI.png

[vale pine]

11.0.5 increases blade flurry damage

*range

while it does not for nimble

[ornate current]

Ok than just make it shadow for sub

[hard ember]

LOL

[vale pine]

which seems like a oversight

[hard ember]

NO WAY

is it like a second on-hit

that's a separate dmg event

or something like that

[ornate current]

For outlaw it would have made MUCH more sense to make nimble increase the target cap of bladflurry by another 5~7 targets

[upper narwhal]

for some reason Nimble on Sub hits a second time based off post-mitigation damage and gets mitigated again

[ornate current]

They just don't wanna admit that all 3 specs have bladeflurry

[vale pine]

well assassiantions cleave works diffrently

but i am rly surprised why nimble isn't shadow

it would make sense for subtlety

[upper narwhal]

yeah it's uncapped

[ornate current]

It aint

[hard ember]

tbh yeah

[ornate current]

Isnt spatter caped

[upper narwhal]

"soft" capped

[hard ember]

5t sqrt

[hazy breach]

Soft capped at 5

[ornate current]

Yea

[hazy breach]

Which is worse than hard capped at 8 in most situations

[upper narwhal]

watching warriors pretend thie class is ruined going to soft cap at 5 is silly tho

[hard ember]

taht's how i explain it to my tanks/to my guildies etc, "mutilate in aoe flurries my poison dmg"

sure it's not exactly like that but effectively that's what it does yeah

[hazy breach]

Its undoubtably a big aoe nerf

[upper narwhal]

yeah but it opens them up for singletarget buffs

[hazy breach]

Its like -20% dmg to those abilities in aoe

[vale pine]

subtlety has BP which should hit noticably harder

[upper narwhal]

Fury has the Outlaw problem

[ornate current]

I find nimble fun for sub since sub has the best ST rotation but the way ita just a hard copy of actual BF is kinda lazy and 0 imagination

[vale pine]

so nimble is for sub only a in between

[ornate current]

At least the assa one is kinda diff

[wispy pebble]

Biggest nerf for warri was Add dmg being remnoved from logs lmao

[ornate current]

Its still bf but it has a cooler designe

[hazy breach]

At 13 targets soft capped at 5 is better than hardcapped at 8 btw

[hard ember]

when i first read it, i had the impression of "sectec activates blade flurry", wchih would have been cooler i think

like if sectec cast would have like started a flurry window or something

but as it is, it's just always on

[upper narwhal]

yeah I was not expecting the uptime on the buff to be this high when I 1st read the tree

[wispy pebble]

Btw hero talents being linked to non baseline talents is absolute disgusting design

[short radish]

i dont understand why sub needs to jump through so many hoops

just to get bflurry up

it's the actual theme of sub holy shit

[hazy breach]

What

[short radish]

having to prayge for proc

[ornate current]

Imagine if every stack of nimble was likea bomb that ticks cleve dmg based on the ST dmg you do and it speeds up its detonation the more dmg you pump into it, finally exploding and doing accumulative dmg to all mobs, kinda like tristana bomb from league if anyone knows what im talking about

[short radish]

or keep spamming it until you do

instead of pressing the button once

to activate

[wispy pebble]

tbh sectec forces prog its not that bad

[ornate current]

It's still bf but much more imaginative

[vale pine]

nimble has a high uptime

[upper narwhal]

not being able to track resets on backstab activations can be annoying

[vale pine]

so not rly that big of a deal

[hard ember]

yeah imo the uptime is too high

[wispy pebble]

what i dislike is that i cant track the cooldown of hidden blade

[short radish]

is it too high?

[hard ember]

I would have preferred it to be more powerful and to be limited

[short radish]

if its not 100%

i think thats too low

[hard ember]

yeah that's also true

[hazy breach]

Wouldnt surprise me if the backstab activation thing isnt even worth it anymore after the bp buffs

[upper narwhal]

probably not worth fishing

[hazy breach]

It was like 0.4% before

[hard ember]

like either it should be 100% or it should be like tied to some cd and reflect that in terms of dmg probably

[wispy pebble]

i dont fish anymore i just bp until 2 targets left then i backstab evis again

[hard ember]

it feels more natural that way, even if it's a loss

[wispy pebble]

tbh i think storm -> bp feels meh. I always energy starve

[hard ember]

well that depends on target count yeha

[ornate current]

Remember when backstab wasnt a wet noodle

I member

[hard ember]

i do find myself missing seal fate

like unless i'm completely tripping we had it for a portion of dragonflight iirc

i think it was where vigor is now or something

or roundabouts that area?

[short radish]

i cant remember when we lost it

[hazy breach]

I think seal fate is better of as an assa exclusive talent, but ye we had it for a bit

[haughty mural]

10.2

[hard ember]

yeh i think it's better assa exclusive

i just wish that like, 2-3t didn't feel so anemic

[short radish]

i wish for a lot of things 😦

[random hare]

OK

!

[raw wadi]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[fleet maple]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sinful sluice]

for the ST of dark brew build, do we always evis on full combo points? (for deathstalker mark)

I feel like i have to use way too much backstab to get full combo points which takes so much energy

[hazy breach]

If you have darkest night you need to get to 7 cp yes

[sinful sluice]

im lv 626 and can barely get 800k single target dmg on boss.. this should be normal right?

[fallow nimbus]

Storm should proc hidden blade and we would never worry about bs in aoe again

[wild vine]

you mean shouldnt

ig

[fallow nimbus]

It costs 45 energy, as much as strike, and is our aoe builder

[lilac stag]

Just let backstab die already.

[keen dome]

Every day I wish for Backstab to be gone.

[fallow nimbus]

Gb is right there

Why not baseline?

Like you start with bs then evolve it to gloomblade

[ornate current]

Its been long dead since legion

[keen dome]

ye, if only

You could do something very fun with BS for PvP, too.

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale lagoon]

is it possible for us to look at like

target dummy logs or something lol

been messing with DS on the 5 target dummy and im just casually 300k dps behind my sim

[hazy breach]

Ye dont be in dornogal or valdrakken

And its gonna match up better

For some reason theres some open world jankiness that makes some spells do less (like nimble or shadow blades)

[vale lagoon]

WHAT THE FUCK

HUH???

WHAT

how does that even work man

doing different dmg in different places

https://tenor.com/view/kevin-hart-wtf-what-the-fuck-what-confused-gif-16402042

[fallow nimbus]

Nobody knows, not even blizz

[hazy breach]

So ive been kinda lying because i was a silly goose and tested stuff like nimble on those dummies+some mobs outside to confirm it wasnt just dummies

[vale lagoon]

ngl tho i feel like im not doing that much dmg even in keys

[hazy breach]

But ye nimble is 50% in dungeons

[vale lagoon]

OOOOH

[hazy breach]

Not 40%, thats only on certain dummies and in the open world

[fallow nimbus]

Mobs have extra armor, we do less dmg, the aliens did it, choose yourself

[vale lagoon]

jesus christ

but again, even in dungeons

[hazy breach]

Its got nothing to with that, its just

[vale lagoon]

giant pulls with like 20 mobs

im doing 5 million dps with trickster and 5 million with DS

and i feel like that CAN'T be right

and i dont think im playing DS wrong right, like prioritizing DN unless im about to sectech, im facerolling bp at 6 cp

[fallow nimbus]

The illuminati did it

[vale lagoon]

i have deadly momentum and not follow the bug

idk

is it literally just tornado gap?

like DS will do the same big aoe as trickster

unless i drop inev + wm and get tornado?

[young path]

wait wut... ?

[vale pine]

flawless form does not work on nimble

*fazed

thats the bug

and its just complicated

because find weakness and fazed exists

[young path]

so all that "use the advanced code" stuff when simming we don't do then when dungeon slice simming trickster?

cause my trickster sims pull ahead of deathstalker, thats for sure

(and honestly plays 1 billion times more fluid)

[vale lagoon]

how the hell did u manage that

[young path]

well, haven't simmed in over a week, but lemme take a look, will share results

[vale lagoon]

LUL

yeah my ds sim is like

5% ahead of my trickster sim or something

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/sorry-oops-gif-18113744246722416205

[vale lagoon]

nvmnd

the wowhead m+ build is 8% behind ds db

lmao

im so done with sims

[plush roost]

Me when I spread misinformation :^)

Hehe how could you

[lilac stag]

The good news is there’s only like 40 people or less that are affected by this.

[plush roost]

How do I cope with my BBH log being less than I want though

[lilac stag]

Eat a snickers?

[plush roost]

Hmmm

Maybe a Mars instead

Not much for peanuts

[olive mural]

Seems I've picked a great time to try and get updated info on my sub alt that I haven't played in months

[vale lagoon]

i still wanna know why im doing 0 dmg with DS in keys man

[cursive vapor]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[vale lagoon]

like the sim tells me i should be doing 8% more than my trickster sims

that'd be like viable dps

[lilac stag]

TLDR still better

[vale lagoon]

not nearly on sin's level but mayb just a bit below ret

instead of abysmal 1.3 million overall in a +11

and it's just not there even on the huge pulls

i dont get it

[lilac stag]

strap it in, about to witness a meltdown.

[vale lagoon]

nah im just genuinely confused lol

[plush roost]

Could be a lot of things, spreading ruptures correctly, using DN correctly, ensuring you have FW up in big packs for BP value

[olive mural]

That may be numerically true but this toon is for the lulz atm

[young path]

well, DS simming higher now... I literally linked sims from a week ago comparing my trickster vs DS builds on dungeon slice showing trickster winning... Got told i was wrong and have to run some 40% advanced script, then DS won...

At this point, I've lost all confidence in any accuracy of the sims and will use my in-game performance details meters which almost always has DS losing in keys

[vale lagoon]

like how is me facerolling BP over and over with FW everywhere

the same dmg as cleaving 5 targets only

[vale pine]

does not metter, sub is cooler

[lilac stag]

Fun fact. Dslice (and sims) are not perfect. They are an effort to recreate something that has many variables. Typically dslice is great for gear choices and talent decisions.

With how krangled sub cds, cdr and gameplay is currently it’s not out of the realm of possibility that optimum talent choices maybe extremely difficult to generate via dslice.

[vale pine]

i think

[vale pine]

just a matter of opinion

but a big diffrence in a fight style

like

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[olive mural]

What's the verdict for Tuesdays updates?

[young path]

also 100

[vale pine]

here

[lilac stag]

you’re also taking one or two instance of details vs 5000

[vale pine]

^ is fairly obviouse that one of the specs might be a bit undertuned

[olive mural]

Good for sub? Seems overall good for rogue

[vale pine]

or that there is a problem with the fight style

[lilac stag]

Shit @vale pine

Whoops

Shit @olive mural

[vale pine]

XD

💩

[olive mural]

Rip

[lilac stag]

You snuck in and I fat fingered.

Haha

Happy Saturday.

[vale pine]

subtlety is not bad or terrible

it gets a marginal buff in 11.0.5

still behind sin in m+

also because sin is honestly just overtuned

and sub possibly undertuned

but fear not

i discovered the pinacle of gameplay for sub

[opaque marten]

in raid will do better than now?

[vale pine]

find weakness waving seems to be a thing

at least on 2 targets

[vestal escarp]

uncertain if sin is overtuned, there are a couple of specs that can easily surpass it in overall

[keen dome]

oh no

[vale lagoon]

wow

insane numbers

[vale pine]

also only on trickster

its 0.8 iirc after some other changes

[vale lagoon]

wtf is fw waving

[vale pine]

even

waving is a other word for tab targeting

means

you keep find weakness up on multiple targets

because its only worth on 2

in any situation you play trickster and have 2 targets

[vale lagoon]

o that's 2 target patchwerk sim?

[vale pine]

its a small optimization, so nothing to do by default

yes

[vale lagoon]

[vale pine]

trickster is quite a bit better on 2 targets

🙈

[lilac stag]

Please delete this.

[plush roost]

On 2 target its not a big deal, even 3. Tab targetting FW at 4+ targets is cursed tho

[vale pine]

sure will do

[plush roost]

LOL

[olive mural]

Tab targeting on that many targets generally sucks lol

[vale pine]

you are correct, i should post the correct (up to date) result and not the one i run earlier

https://tenor.com/view/pikachu-cute-petting-pokemon-gif-23277346

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/pikachu-oof-dead-startled-purnya-gif-17571191

[plush roost]

This is why Im playing sin rn smh

On my knees in a walmart

[vale pine]

i mean, we still work on the sim

so take anything with a grain of salt in terms of optimizations

[plush roost]

Yeah I'm just shitposting ngl

[vale pine]

also welcome to #subtlety

we always find some nice edge cases

and if you follow the chat you have the burdon of knowlage

[hazy breach]

Plays mostly like non-dust did before the update, numbers slightly up

[plush roost]

Lambos and knowledge

[vale lagoon]

wish we could get a % lol

even if it's REALLY rough

[hazy breach]

4

[vale lagoon]

👍

[plush roost]

Plays worse does more basically

[hazy breach]

#1271971289396936735 message

[ornate current]

yea and how much did sin get ???

6

lmao

what a joke

[hazy breach]

Enhancement got like 25%

so

Theyre gonna hotfix stuff right after release anyway

[vale lagoon]

yeah so im going to kms soon

or worse

swap OL

[olive mural]

Fdk is getting like 7-8% st with the deathbringer changes

[vale lagoon]

can blizzard just send out their employees to actually shoot us sub players in our homes already

bcuz at this point that seems like what they WANT to do

and they're just being phony and disingenuous

[hazy breach]

Idk people overreact too much, raid balance is good right now

[vestal escarp]

enha already ahead of everything with fdk

[hazy breach]

And it almost always is

DK st isnt amazing, its very mid

Theyre cleave is what makes em good in m+

[vale lagoon]

...but raid isn't even the main mode anymore

[olive mural]

Fdk st is terrible

[vale lagoon]

it's to fill out specific slots like trinkets

[vestal escarp]

i meant m+

[vale lagoon]

and they're hard failing M+ balancing

[olive mural]

Its strength is in cleave and aoe

[hazy breach]

Its literally middle of the pack on a boss like kyveza though

Thats kinda the definition of mid innit

[olive mural]

Tends toward lower and I think that's because kyveza has a bunch of stuff to feed rp through ams

Was just looking through wcl data

[vestal escarp]

timers for kyveza might just be nasty, first dashes are mid pillar

[olive mural]

You mean Sikran? That fight is ass with the movement

Kyveza is nicer

[ornate current]

iamgine being shit on ST and AOE

oh wait

we dont have to imagine it

[topaz egret]

What specs are those I need to know

[wild vine]

people like to say fdk balance unholy and enhancer, yet I'd still have to see any of those except fdk dealing really high dmg overall

a friend mentioned he had an unholy with 2.6m overall on a stonevault without aug

but duh stonevault ig

[olive mural]

Unholy needs big pulls to excel

[wild vine]

yeah but thats kinda what people are doing whenever possible

I kinda hope they go for some buffs instead of nerfs this time around tho

[fair stump]

Isn't enh topping the raid charts?

[hazy breach]

[vestal escarp]

you play with em

[topaz egret]

wät

[vestal escarp]

enha fdk boomie

you play with enha

[topaz egret]

no class does even close damage to assa from my experience

[hazy breach]

Even if you lose overall by a slight amount, the prio assa does is insane

[pliant topaz]

i dont think its posssible to lose overall as assa eleem

[tepid trellis]

in higher keys prolly not

only thing i could see be slightly up there would be Fdk / enhance

[pliant topaz]

the only thing stopping assa from turbo gapping others is keys not being high enough

its litearlly spriest in s4

once keys get high eough you cant even get close to it

[timber nimbus]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

I agree

[pliant topaz]

the only time i feel gapped as assa is in pure pure single target fights vs an arcane mage

and even then if i get a good kill timer im chilling

[vale pine]

but prio is our niche

[hazy breach]

https://tenor.com/view/sure-grandma-lets-get-you-to-bed-yes-grandma-gif-6683134261581381982

[vale pine]

[wild vine]

they dont really seem to care too much about high keys, so its whatever ig

[hard wren]

how much better is sub next patch ST and AOE?

[strange chasm]

Yeah I've very rarely been beaten as sin in a key on the overall

[hazy breach]

A couple of percent, sim ST is up about 4%

[wild vine]

thats roughly as conclusive as "ive never been hit by a car"

[hard wren]

AOE still not competitive with ass then

[hazy breach]

Definitely not

Nothing is

[hard wren]

does ass get more benefit than others from aug?

[hazy breach]

Not really

[hard wren]

like BM gets a lot from PI

[hazy breach]

Well PI is haste

aug is mostly just +dmg

[hard wren]

guess the fly thing goes well with deathmark

[hazy breach]

Aug doesnt really matter though

Like youre not playing something because its better or worse with aug

[hard wren]

I see

[hazy breach]

Theres tons of top keys without aug

[hard wren]

is there m+ achievement for +15 right now?

[hazy breach]

No

Rewards stop after 10

[vale lagoon]

man i dunno wtf im doing wrong

ret is still a middle of the pack spec right

im 625 ilvl, i should be doing more in overall no?

[edgy zenith]

ret is OP as fuck in keys

you won't beat a ret in overall ever if the ret has a brain (impossible challenge)

[jaunty heath]

do same thing every pull this time it somehow hits me

[vale lagoon]

but like i shouldnt be that much lower right

[edgy zenith]

i mean, what key was that?

[lilac stag]

as your spec is what you're doing wrong

you can't beat tuning

[edgy zenith]

yeah, just pick assa do double everyone else while also having never played the spec before

[pliant topaz]

hes obviouly beaming with his buttcheecks

[lilac stag]

legit not saying it to be cute or edgy. I'd love to be playing sub right now and not feel like I'm an inting asshole

[vale lagoon]

NW

[edgy zenith]

looks about right for an overall

Sub just sucks bud

[vale lagoon]

[vale lagoon]

but like there are sub rogues doing +12s rn no?

are they just doing that with this dps?

[vestal escarp]

Third wheeling most likely

[hoary lotus]

Just wait next week

Sub stonks rising

[keen dome]

We'll hit so hard the boss will explode.

[pliant topaz]

bro thinks hes a shaman

[keen dome]

explode

[pliant topaz]

this goes hard

[violet torrent]

I feel like high keys require some nice pulling around sub cds

[lilac stag]

There are BM hunters getting carried in 12s too

ain’t no way I’d pug keys as sub. If you can orchestrate pulls probably in better shape but shit is rough.

assa just slaps which makes it even more inting

and you’re losing whatever extra defensiveness you had as sub in a few days.

[timber breach]

I must have missed something. It feels like sub was doing well in raids and has since fallen off. Sin seems to have gained a lot of ground looking at the heroic raid dps parses

was there some tuning buff that I missed?

[violet torrent]

Probably just time and gearing

[jaunty heath]

the bosses that majority of playerbase get to

[edgy zenith]

Sin got a ST buff, Sub didn't.

[bronze turret]

Didnt sub get a minor dps increase from the changes?

[pliant topaz]

u mean 0.5?

[alpine wraith]

yea something like 3 to 4%

[lilac stag]

Assa got some tuning. It’s pinned in that channel. Sub wasn’t exactly blasting, but defensively it was better. Raid nerfs & the defensiveness was less needed.

[alpine wraith]

but the changes are a bit a loss on some bosses

[old socket]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale lagoon]

feelsbadman

worst part is, that pali is my bro lol

it's 2 of us against the world and im falling further and further behind every reset

[pliant ledge]

is deathstalker worse numerically in m+?

[alpine wraith]

nice

[vale lagoon]

im looking at this shit rn https://www.archon.gg/wow/tier-list/dps-rankings/mythic-plus/10/all-dungeons/this-week

[sly shore]

3 minutes late

[vale lagoon]

and i can't help but feel like this is bullshit lol

[jaunty heath]

boss dam doe

[strange chasm]

Did you have to change to gnome

[sly shore]

ur loot basically the same as what we got

[jaunty heath]

yes

[alpine wraith]

you need to next week

anyway

[strange chasm]

Why next week?

[alpine wraith]

no double vanish

rn you can vanish cloak vanish vanish

you lose some p2 dmg

but it is whatever

after patch it is donezo

[sly shore]

you're never going to do that

[strange chasm]

With the sin buffs

Ima just be playing sin

[alpine wraith]

that too

[alpine wraith]

of course not if you are gnome

[jaunty heath]

yea hopefully the roots are fixed when i we rekill in 1month+

[alpine wraith]

or just sit last one kekw

[sly shore]

you get benched or go gnome (you go gnome)

[alpine wraith]

pray to alla

[jaunty heath]

there were like one or two

non rogue kills no?

[strange chasm]

We get another 2% buff next week or the week thereafter

[jaunty heath]

for queen

[sly shore]

ours had no rogue

I was benched

😄

[alpine wraith]

yea some had none

[jaunty heath]

L

idk

i dont think its that bad

[sly shore]

3 minutes faster than you

[jaunty heath]

yea

its fine anyway

my last best was like 109 wrank

[sly shore]

[drowsy stone]

So sub is effectively dead in 11.0.5?

[alpine wraith]

not really the standing wont change much just more annoying to play

oh and way more squishy

[pliant ledge]

how did they manage to make it worse xD

[sly shore]

It's an achievement

[alpine wraith]

yea they try their hardest

[lilac stag]

They’re only putting attention to assa while throwing random shit at sub. One of the dagger specs works. Good enough for the 2nd to last played class.

[alpine wraith]

think rogue is only ahead of evoker because you can have more than 1

[pliant ledge]

isnt realz around these days to give an explanation?

[alpine wraith]

he came here when death's perception was revealed

we indicated it was too weak and needed more

so now you get some % extra dam

[pliant ledge]

so basically, no

I dont know, rogue changes make 0 sense

[alpine wraith]

rogue changes make sense

they want you to play sin

[pliant ledge]

This is something that i will never get

why blizzard plays favorites in terms of specs

why is feral so neglected

[pliant topaz]

do they make 0 sense?

like u really thought about it and came to the conclusion they dont make sense?

[pliant ledge]

constantly bugged, think of how coup was in the beginning, the removal of acrobatic strikes from outlaw that needs to be constantly hitting something, as if ret isnt literally ranged

and theres more

like there are constantly SO MANY bugs

[pliant topaz]

so when they removed acro and ALL other range increasing abilities that was a rogue only thing?

or like, rogues the only class thats buggy?

have you seeen the 11.0.5 enhancement interactions?

like, im as unhappy with the dev team as anyone here

[pliant ledge]

im not saying that only rogue changes dont make sense, a lot of changes dont make sense

[pliant topaz]

but like, the changes made sense why they were made

its just that they didnt spend any time fixing the spec once the changes were made

[pliant ledge]

fine, still plenty of reasons to complain

[clever delta]

im just reading tc post by eleem and i got the feeling im not playing sub this tier again

[alpine wraith]

as for the no ned to min max before boss pull

you can still SoD at 20 pull timer for 2 rotten charges

[clever delta]

i find it hilarious how they make already chill spec more chill and the one more "complex" fucking dogshit 😄

[alpine wraith]

well as you get used to it not a huge change

the surv hit you notice fast tho

soothing was kinda good

[clever delta]

look very cursed on paper

[alpine wraith]

this is a random nexus princess kill i looked for

losing 10m healing

[clever delta]

yeah idk our hps is so low dat it barely matter i think

[alpine wraith]

you notice it

play on ptr a bit vs tank dummy

and then on live

you die like 1 or 2 mins earlier

also idk why this guy had no exil execution but maybe 8% healing was big for him

this is one with exil

either way we lose like 20k+ hps

thanos snapped

[clever delta]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[toxic knoll]

Will DS be better in m+ after anniversary patch or trickster Will come back?

[alpine wraith]

trickster dead

10%+ behind

unluck

also coup has weird bugs with charger

havent confirmed all of them

[vale pine]

trickster is not dead

its more like 3% between the two

or 4

but deathstalker still benefits from the ds mark bug in sims

so they are even closer

[alpine wraith]

really when i put it on the situations you would use trickster for

it got rinsed

dont need to do much just hit the 5 by 5 dummies a bit on dorn in ptr

or the 3 by 3

trickster should be better on 2 targets tho

one thing is true DS is still annoying to play

[vale pine]

use og dummies

the other ones are buggy

[alpine wraith]

damn now even dummies are bugged

[vale pine]

thats actually nothing new

we had this problem in bfa and sl with dummies

just means we might draw wrong conclusions if we don't use the main city dummies

[tight bison]

Hello peeps!
I am going to start Mythic Progging and i can choose between Sub Rogue and Feral Druid. Got and tips what to do? I am REALLY torn..

[vale pine]

practice

[lilac stag]

Change spec to

[willow shadow]

at this moment sub is pretty weak

[tight bison]

Ye Ofc… But what are the benefits of Sub? Sin? Na, not my jam

[lilac stag]

Sub dps is mid at best. Assa is top boss dmg.

[tight bison]

Ye But its not as fun 🙂

[alpine wraith]

sub is a little more durable than assa

but not for long

[lilac stag]

If you only care about fun no one in here can help you

[alpine wraith]

so enjoy it while it lasts

you have 3 to 4 days

[tight bison]

And Sub is getting buffed on the 20 anniversary right?

[lilac stag]

Fun is subjective.

[alpine wraith]

well it will do some more damage if played correctly

but playing it is a bit more complicated

[tight bison]

Ok so play better = do better xD like it should

[willow shadow]

honestly i have been playing feral recently, and its funny as hell to play, imo

the druid of the claw hero talents are awesome, not very strong but i have been having a good time running keys

[tight bison]

Would u say its more fun than sub?

[tight bison]

How Will it be more complicated btw?

[vale pine]

its okay, you can play it in raids

[willow shadow]

similar playstyle, harder to play in my opinion but funnier than sub atm

in my opinion

[hazy breach]

It is not really that complicated really

Its just 1 naked symbols every rotation

Except the first after opener

[vale pine]

i do like sub

[abstract skiff]

i think it plays fine as it is now except for the flurry being the opposite of what i wanna do and deathstalker feeling super underwhelming

oh and coup de grace feeling like youre having a lagspike

[vale pine]

trickster is probably the most fun

[abstract skiff]

yeah i think so

[vale pine]

11.0.5 plays a bit diffrent

some things simpler, others more complicated

overall still very much the same tho

[abstract skiff]

how is the damage profile

similar?

[willow shadow]

guys i have a question

do you still use cold blood only with tech or do u use it also with coup

?

[pliant topaz]

sectech

[vale lagoon]

imagine if that realz person somehow comes thru for us against all odds

and at least patches us up with a 5% aura buff or somehting next reset

just to make us playable for now

[alpine wraith]

well 5% would help but i dont think many people would be happy with that

because almost no one "plays" sub

[pastel rampart]

yea i think if ur happy with an aura buff you should just reroll to a meta spec

[alpine wraith]

they just go into it if it is better than assa or outlaw

[pastel rampart]

cause ur priority is on dmg over gameplay

[clever delta]

im not happy about sub after dust removal

[alpine wraith]

like we are not happy with these changes

[clever delta]

and i was big sub enjoer

[alpine wraith]

it is a 3% buff or 4% buff to dmg

but

that is it

[clever delta]

ijust rarther play assa where its even

[alpine wraith]

we lose agency surv and fun

and for normal people it is impossible to know

you want to use x or y bug to do more dps

[bleak wind]

I have a feeling sub will just go back to BFA levels of players

that new playstyle looks horrid

[alpine wraith]

likely it is like that on player count but tuning a bit better

we were 20% behind assa in bfa

we are now midpack or whatever after the changes

[barren wren]

Guys, do you think it’s worth switching to assa for broodtwister prog ? I have no stats at all…

[alpine wraith]

you will do more dmg likely

[strange rover]

trixter sub might be actually decent in m+ with changes ? thoughts

[alpine wraith]

nope

[rough sigil]

Just tried assassin, why does envenom do over 1m and Eviscerate does almost nothing, I know we spam it, but overlal they can spam env too with multi target, I am confused.

[alpine wraith]

it is worse but hey

[abstract skiff]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaa why am i cleaving as a sub rogue

[bleak wind]

remove dust which was press vanish every 1min 30 which was confusing people apparently to the playstyle of juggling symbols charges with naked symbols and holding symbols

[strange rover]

is it though pretty high uptime on symbols + supercharged cps kinda benefit most sub out of 3 specs

[abstract skiff]

i hope it plays better than it sounds

[glad marten]

hey guys, haven't really checked in in a long time here but i was curious if anyone thinks sub will be viable in m+, i really enjoyed the gameplay in bfa, shadowlands and DF, but now it feels like way too much effort for little payoff

[strange rover]

it is viable rn dependin on range of keys u doing if you are fine with being 3rd on meters

[glad marten]

well i swapped to assa then i kinda stopped because im not a huge fan of the playstyle, just got keystone master today on a different char

[strange rover]

yeah i hate assa playstyle too but before patch assa is ahead of sub by miles not sure if patch will change something

[glad marten]

yeah, i saw that in m+ this week there were like 6k assa rogues and 27 sub

i'm not even expecting it to go #1 dps, i just don't want my mid burst top dps to be lower than my assa overall dps

[vale lagoon]

lol it's the onlly thing that's remotely possible man

u think they gonna fix how shit dance alone feels in like

3 days

fact is they don't care about us so im hoping they at least slap on bandaid on the stab wound

[wind canopy]

@tepid trellis

[pliant topaz]

it is an interesting change that is probably better for the longterm health of the spec

[hazy breach]

Idk maybe i should reword the post

Because i dont think its as confusing as people seem to think

[pliant topaz]

maybe but naked sods could sitll be confusing

or like "dance if u can fit a sectech in your dance but also sod on darkest night" could be confusing

[hazy breach]

Ye i guess

[pliant topaz]

trickster is quite confusing tbh

because you also have the <20, >40 rules

u have the extra stack rules

[bleak wind]

its definitely more confusing than vanish after blades

[pliant topaz]

but regarding the changes and dust

i think its easier to tune the spec without dust

[hazy breach]

Well ye but then you get to fights where we pull blades to flag or the opposite

And its back to being very confusing

[pliant topaz]

but also, adding the sod charges gives you freedom on when to dance insetead of having to dnace on sod cd

you can move things around. specially with the new sectech rules

[bleak wind]

that is a good nieche that made it more interesting imo, that you can pull your last blades if the boss is dying

[hazy breach]

Or whenever we get back to having a 2 min trinket

And we do that all the time

[pliant topaz]

it is also a niche that breaks the games concept of balancing

[hazy breach]

Interesting and confusing often overlap

[pliant topaz]

and u end up with right now. where its really good on heroic, and some mythic fights, and awful on others

[hazy breach]

I agree with you fwiw

[jaunty heath]

Taking out dance cdr would’ve helped more than removing dust I feel

Im also dumb so i could be very wrong

But having a button that reduces a flat amount sounds easier to manage than variable cdr

[pliant topaz]

idk depending on the button that reduces the flat dance/sod/sectech cdr it could be very problematic

and very confusing

[bleak wind]

its also if you get a new player on rogue 90% of them will choose assa or outlaw and will think sub is hard / confusing, and I feel like its gonna be even more confusing without dust

[jaunty heath]

Dunno I meant that being paired with looking at those cds I guess

[shrewd lantern]

Sub has always had cdr

its just you generate much more nowadays with shadowcraft

and blades

throw a brick at whoever designed the lingering/pv/gloomblade side of the tree

[jaunty heath]

Ye idk the cdr being tied to cp generation and cp generation being pretty different pull to pull is something I had many problems with when I started playing sub

It gets easier over time for sure

[shrewd lantern]

Like in my eyes sub’s design has gotten problematic

ever since they started making

sustained damage talents

for a burst spec

[pliant topaz]

i do agree that having multiple charges of dance and sod

and dyanmic cds of dance and sectech

and needing to align these

is very confusing

[bleak wind]

I think they need to do a little bit more for double dance, if anything dust made that feel good to do

[pliant topaz]

like if we didnt have the sims to test things we would never know

[shrewd lantern]

I just want to go back

to post legion rework sub

is that too much to ask for

I seriously dont think they thought blades and shadowcraft rework

with dance cdr

[haughty mural]

I don’t think charges are the problem

Worked really good before

[pliant topaz]

i dont think it did

[vale lagoon]

bullshit lol

[pliant topaz]

when did u have multiple charges of sod?

[vale lagoon]

multiple charges of dance = having to deal with how many charges to send and when = cancer

[haughty mural]

I mean dance charges

[pliant topaz]

having just multiple ance charges is very very very different

than multiple dance AND sod

[haughty mural]

That I agree with

[pliant topaz]

like its not even similar in concept

[haughty mural]

That’s why I think the sod charge talent is a horrible bandaid

[pliant topaz]

thast why i disagree though

i thnk its healthier for the spec to be able to move dance around with more freedom

than to move flag and blades around

i think sod charges create a really unique and interesting (and a bit more complex) playstyle

specially for trickster

my issue is with the placement of the talent

and the profile it creates

[haughty mural]

Fair point

[vale lagoon]

i think if we ever want to change the situation where ppl bitch about having to learn sub whenever it's at all viable

making us send everything on cd like OL is the nly way

[haughty mural]

You mean to make the spec more appealing for more people?

[bleak wind]

with dust you essentially had double sod with blades/flag and it seems that is what they were trying to do with the sod charges but it just doesn't really work the same way

[shrewd lantern]

i mean they did that in sepulcher

and i hated playing sub

every minute of that

[pliant topaz]

if u had 2 sods that probably is what you would do. but weith 3 sods it creates an entirely different dynamic

[shrewd lantern]

legion sub your dance was up roughly every 30

[pliant topaz]

but even with 2 sods, the idea of having multiple sods during cds, but also freedmoe to send your extra dance outside depending on when u want is a good idea

[vale lagoon]

i mean make it so ppl dont actively hate us lol

i remember df s1

ppl were SO salty that sin wasn't hard shitting on sub in keys

and that sub was even an option

[bleak wind]

yea thats what I mean, but even with 2 sods it 'kinda' works but you still have to hold

[pliant topaz]

thats just tuning on deepening

but also kinda works out well

[vale lagoon]

conspiracy theories are usually cringe but like

[pliant topaz]

because u would need to hold sod anyways

to pool charges for cds

[vale lagoon]

i rly feel like blizz is purposely keeping us dogshit

to appease the bigger playerbase

lke there is NO WAY they dont have time to give us a quick aura buff to at least make us not completely worthless

[pliant topaz]

okay but like thats kinda cope tho

is sub so bad it needs an aura buff here?

what about here?

its only really bad on mythic and m+

[bleak wind]

holding symbols is the most horrible thing you can do with current sub, you might as well go afk, you do negative damage outside of sod/dance

[pliant topaz]

m+ is kinad design problem / kinda tuning but also they dont really tune for m+

mythic is hwoever, stuck because sure its the worst spec in the game, but also its doing really well on normal and heroic.

and why should they tune for mythic when more players play normal and heroic?

and this disparity in performance is caused by dust, which theyre removing

so they can tune the spec

(this is my cope they might just be aasking chat gpt for what to do next i cant know - but this is my thought process if someone was taking logical decision in there)

[pliant topaz]

realz said hes fine with that. I disagree with a lot of his opinionis on the spec but hes deciding, and just because i disagree doesnt mean im right.

[wet echo]

oh god

[bleak wind]

nah, blank symbols is somewhat fine

holding it though

cursed

[pliant topaz]

i guess, but i dont think he sees that as problematic either

he was fine with holding flag

he likes the friction usually

[shrewd lantern]

idk

i hated df s1 and s2 sub

[wet echo]

df s1 was fine imo

[shrewd lantern]

it was outlaw

with daggers

[bleak wind]

holding flag is not as impactful, playstlye wise, its symbols and dance that affect your gameplay

and blades I guess

[vale lagoon]

what lol, are we saying herioc andys deserve balancing lol

[bleak wind]

holding symbols makes you press backstab for a minute

[vale lagoon]

not tuning for M+ when M+ is where most of the gears come from

is pretty bad imo

[bleak wind]

while probably being the slowest class in the game for that 1 min

[pliant topaz]

most player base also raids normal and heroic only

most player base will only do < 10 keys

and sub can easily do 10s

so like, by the defenition of what theyre aiming for. specs fine

[vale lagoon]

by definition of what they're aiming for they literally don't need balancing lol

u can crush heroics with ilvl

and +10s too

like so what if sub is dominating in heroic raids lmao, are heroic andys gonna be forced to reroll over it

pretty sure and heroics only RL demanding that would be laughed out of the room no

[pliant topaz]

now youre getting it

[vale lagoon]

yeah so balancing only exists for ppl trying to push 3k+ anyway

and that's where sub's having massive issues

[pliant topaz]

thats not true...

if youre doing heroic raids and u see a sub rogue doing a billion dps and they get buffed

youre not gonna be happy

it has nothing to do with rerolling

you play the game to feel reward for your good play

[vale lagoon]

they should just go into a mythic raid for once in their life no

[pliant topaz]

and if u dont get that, youre unhappy

[vale lagoon]

idk

[shrewd lantern]

m+ is a stupid game mode

cringe forced content

[vale lagoon]

lol

raid

is a 20 year old mode and it shows

[tawdry belfry]

!STAT

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility > Critical Strike > Haste

[bleak wind]

one good thing at least is that with sod charges downtime would be a bit less punishing

[vale lagoon]

honestly as cringe as Riot nerfing champions for gold and below lol

[shrewd lantern]

sub design is just terrible

half the tree doesnt make sense

[vale lagoon]

yeah but we obviously dont have the player count to justify a full rework

so again

[shrewd lantern]

sin actually has a coherent tree

[vale lagoon]

slap a bandaid on our stab wound now

so we arent literally forced to rr if we wanna go anywhere beyond rick fox low

[shrewd lantern]

i mean

being an otp on a pure dps
class

is weird

[vale lagoon]

dont get ppl swapping all the time

change is cancer

[shrewd lantern]

They literally change how the spec works

like every patch

[vale lagoon]

which is why i've oinly played like 1 tier per expac since legion lol

rly fking annoying

[shrewd lantern]

well thats on you

I havent enjoyed any iteration of sub truly

since legion

[tribal blade]

what if they made M+ it's own content

so M+ gear scaled like pvp gear

[vale lagoon]

what if ppl just accept that having to get 20 ppl together is fucking cancer and nobody even wants 20 friends irl

beyond ppl who are like 40+ years old xDDD

[tribal blade]

and all abilities could be tuned seperately between raid, M+ and pvp

[tribal blade]

it's more realistically like 24-25

because if you don't have a bench if 1 person calls out of raid you're boned

[shrewd lantern]

yep

[vale lagoon]

would honestly prefer raiding to be purely for cosmetics lol

[tribal blade]

i think my raid team right now is 30

[shrewd lantern]

we had a 21 roster in legion but like

almost every player had

[tribal blade]

and it means doing heroic queen fucking blows with the fps

[shrewd lantern]

perfect attendance

so

also why you dont play tank

[tribal blade]

that's really rare

[shrewd lantern]

lowkey

[vale lagoon]

i mean the basic fact of society is that

[shrewd lantern]

and technically a downside of playing the 1 of raid buff classes

[vale lagoon]

the more ppl you involve in an effort

[shrewd lantern]

like dh

[vale lagoon]

the worse it feels

therefore fuck raiding

[shrewd lantern]

That’s also a consequence of social media

[vale lagoon]

nah

[shrewd lantern]

people want more instant gratification

nowadays

there are much better games for if you only have

20-30 mins to sit down

and play something

[vale lagoon]

lol didn't armin JUST say that ppl wanna play games to be happy

so all gratification should be instant lol

nobody wnts to sit on a call with 20 other ppl and wipe for hours

let me get into a key and give it my best shot

[shrewd lantern]

”No one”

you just equated your own enjoyment to instant gratification

some people literally play just to level alts

or flip the ah

[vale lagoon]

are u trying to say ppl who lvl alts or flip the AH enjoy raiding lmaoooo

also there's literally nothing wrong with instant gratification lol

it's not like keys are loot pinatas with 0 effort

[shrewd lantern]

Yes but its not everyone’s cup of tea

and there’s much better genres of games for that

[vale lagoon]

being able to see the results of your effort sooner

[shrewd lantern]

armin is right that most of the playerbase raids normal or heroic

at best

[vale lagoon]

is most people's cup of tea

[shrewd lantern]

and realistically same logic can be applied to higher keys

the content doesnt change at all

only numbers go up

[vagrant sinew]

alot more people raid mythic than than the amount that does high keys so you just cant see past your bias

[shrewd lantern]

I can see how keys with the same 4 people can be rewarding

but if you’re a pug hero

you’re really just a moba player

in the wrong game genre

[vale lagoon]

who tf pugs lol

beyond streamers trying to use it as a badge of honor

[shrewd lantern]

most people in m+

thats why they circlejerk meta so much

the people who say you cant get title as a “B tier spec”

most certainly do pug

[wanton bronze]

not true

at least in a bricked key im not locked into an hour-long campaign of suffering with a heavy leaver penalty

[vale lagoon]

would love to see the fking metric on that lol

insane ppl are that inbred

even in league u always duo to rank up no

[wanton bronze]

i mean

[vale lagoon]

having 1 guy who you KNOW isnt a dog on ur team

is a big deal

when the team is only 5 ppl total

[shrewd lantern]

look at people asking

[wanton bronze]

i have a mythic raid team, a full guild, and a static i run keys with on my tank

[shrewd lantern]

what is meta in m+

[wanton bronze]

but i pug on my MW monk and rogue

[shrewd lantern]

most of those people are pug andys

like i genuinely think m+ with a real constant team is rewarding

but get help if you’re pugging m+

[wanton bronze]

most people do pug and realistically having a static just isnt in the cards

[shrewd lantern]

for anything besides gear

[wanton bronze]

5 people with the same goals and gaming schedule can be tough

but i imagine it doesnt seem that way if youre young or have few responsibilities

[shrewd lantern]

honestly in some cases

raid rosters are easier imo

if your healer for m+ has an emergency

yoy cant just slot someone else in

usually

[wanton bronze]

yeah 2-3 days a week at set times to raid, whereas keys are just when everyone happens to be online with no other priorities

[shrewd lantern]

its not like key teams

ever have a bench really

[wanton bronze]

but yeah i dont duo climb in dota

[vale lagoon]

if 5 ppl is tough

[wanton bronze]

it can be counterproductive

[vale lagoon]

then raids are undoable lol

[wanton bronze]

nah its just that raid takes priority and you have ways to hold people accountable

people want to have a structured raid team with a schedule

nobody wants that shit for m+ unless youre literally just a key hero and nothing else

[vale lagoon]

lol are you not playing for title if ur focused on M+?

[wanton bronze]

and if im already raiding 2-3 days a week, i dont really want to commit 2-3 more nights to run keys

[snow girder]

Should authority of the depths used on both weapons. from what i can tell you dont get 2 separate dots with 2 enchants.

[shrewd lantern]

it just does more damage

with two

[vale lagoon]

what if we dont have to commit 2-3 days a week to raids

[wanton bronze]

i just mean its usually 1 or the other

[vale lagoon]

and just play the mode where you need less ppl who are willing to follow the structure

[shrewd lantern]

the comparision would be alot easier if all raid teams ran on only 20 members

[snow girder]

does the actual dot get stronger?

[shrewd lantern]

which is never the case

[shrewd lantern]

yes

[vale lagoon]

indeed

the comparison is even better becuz u need even more than 20 ppl for non dog level raiding

[wanton bronze]

i think in reality most people pushing high keys like 12+ arent pugging more than 1 or 2 people per run, if that

but thats like 2% of the playerbase if i had to guess

[wind canopy]

Very much less than 2% of the player base

[shrewd lantern]

thing is, people post when they cant make it

in any respectable guild

m+ its hella flakey

understandable when m+ gives literally nothing

for non title players

tbh

[vale lagoon]

lol making it in a guild

[shrewd lantern]

This sounds like you’re projecting

[vale lagoon]

Has the prerequisite that u dont want to shoot everyone present when it's a bunch of ppl talking at once

[shrewd lantern]

your own time commitment issues

or you’re antisocial

idk

[vale lagoon]

bottom line is

why do u think ppl play MMOs nowadays lol

[shrewd lantern]

The fact you immediately think

you’re going to dislike people

[vale lagoon]

is it rly to work together with others, or is it so they can have people to beat

[shrewd lantern]

Means there’s likely something with you that’s the issue.

[shrewd lantern]

There’s alot better games for the latter.

pvp games namely

[vale lagoon]

dont shit on wow lol, this game is insanely comprehensive in terms of what u can do

[shrewd lantern]

comprehensive he says

[vale lagoon]

u play any fighting game, ur only options are faceroling and changing skins

[wind canopy]

Yeah, at some point, if you're constantly struggling to find a group to be a part of and going from guild to guild or group to group, might need to change your standards/perception on things

[shrewd lantern]

while insisting on playing one patch of a spec

the entirety of the game

LOL

[vale lagoon]

meanwhile u get to fking beat a key and then go do fishing

or play literal pokemon

in this crazy game

[shrewd lantern]

I feel most fighting game players who dedicate their time to it

would disagree

extreme bias is showing

[vale lagoon]

they'd disagree that they don't have nearly as much options in a fighting game as they would have in WoW?

seems pretty cope lol

[shrewd lantern]

i mean if you ask better players they will say most specs in wow

play very similar

[wind canopy]

I mean, fighting games, you're playing for like championships and prestige. And a lot more money

[shrewd lantern]

when super simplifying it

[vale lagoon]

and the thing is it's always easy to find a few buddies to play m+

but idk

there's always a few ppl i want dead in every guild lol

[wind canopy]

Can just queue up in fighting games in ranked

[shrewd lantern]

Then why arent you doing it

[vale lagoon]

wait what

[wind canopy]

This is a fucked up statement btw.

[vale lagoon]

did u think i pugged my way to where im at

[shrewd lantern]

Hasnt this always been the case

[vale lagoon]

exaggeration lol, sry if it doesn't come thru in typing

[wind canopy]

Sure, but there were other modes/ways of going about it

[wind canopy]

"Exaggeration"

[shrewd lantern]

Socially inept zoomer

is all im getting tbh

[vale lagoon]

yeh i say i wanna kill my little brother too

but in a verbal conversation i can make goofy noises as i do to give context lol

[wind canopy]

Yeah, pretty much Xiani

[shrewd lantern]

idk in any game like this there are always builds or specs that are

numerically better

[vale lagoon]

also idk why social skills should factor into gearing of a game at all lol

[shrewd lantern]

there are games where its not relevant

[vale lagoon]

kinda disgusting

there should be no games where its relevant

BUT ur absolutely right that there's always gonna be a shittiest spec and a greatest spec

just saying blizz can always respond to it with an aura buff for now, and then get back to true gameplay overhauls later

i personally dont see the negative repercussions of them doing that

[shrewd lantern]

i mean sub’s problem is the design

[vale lagoon]

ofc

it is

but liek FOR NOW

[shrewd lantern]

like i literally called sin being the best spec