subtlety

[keen dome]

I've just been lazy and I don't enjoy playing Assa

[pliant topaz]

I havent started pushing and im almost 100 io higher sin stonks!

i did however get kicked from a 10 after swapping to sub before key started - I was only 500 io higher than the lead

[keen dome]

Hahaha

[pliant topaz]

2450 lead doesnt belileve sub can do a 10

what cna i say

[keen dome]

If I saw that, I'd probably just go "Damn this guy is gonna be amazing if he's sneaking in here like that"

Alternatively: "this is going to be really funny"

[formal helm]

Tell me about it

The amount of keys I've been kicked from bc i play sub

[strange chasm]

I just fully swapped from sub tbh

It's more enjoyable even if I dislike sin

[mystic bough]

Thats pretty unfortunate lol

[surreal knoll]

It’s kind of wild, if I sim my character for keys (no gear changes from Sub itemization) sin is about 30% higher

[keen dome]

I'm tempted to just stick as Sub since I'm not pushing or going above 10 so who cares.

[strange chasm]

Like sub is marginally better on court then sin

That's legit all it has going for it

[pliant topaz]

is it though?

[strange chasm]

Marginally yeah it is better

[left ledge]

Don’t worry man I feel you, I get declined from groups without them even hovering me

[pliant topaz]

but is it though once trickster cant abuse tripple dance infinite dust cdr?

is it when trickster is like 10% behind deathstalker?

is it when trickster is like 60k behind live in a week?

[strange chasm]

Yeah next patch sub is definitely screwed lol

[left ledge]

Yeah I mean ngl

[strange chasm]

Then sin will actually just be better for everything

[left ledge]

I called this

When changes first released

I knew trickster was fucking over lmao

[pliant topaz]

dude i havent even started pushing but im getting into 13s pretty easily as sin. I cant get into 11s Q ing as sub

[strange chasm]

Because sin will benefit from the supercharger right?

[pliant topaz]

unironically /spit lmfao

[left ledge]

I don’t think sin wants that do they

Or is it auto replacing er

[pliant topaz]

oh yeh

they do

[strange chasm]

It replaces ER

[pliant topaz]

supercharger is very very very good for everyone

[left ledge]

Oh sick another sin buff

LMAO

[strange chasm]

I'm pretty sure it will be very good for sin

And you won't have to press thistle tea

[barren plume]

Good thing we play sub… am I right

[warm depot]

sub is dogshit

the devs are dogshit

i will doom until i see something tangibly good

[pliant topaz]

wanna see somethign funny with sin energy right now?

[strange chasm]

🙂

[void hound]

😭

[barren plume]

I do

[void hound]

look what they did to my boy trickster

[pliant topaz]

this is new sin with TTK

you press DM, your eneregy doesnt even move

[warm depot]

ROFL

[barren plume]

DM?

Dungeon master v

[pliant topaz]

youre like 50 energy higher than you were before I think

[warm depot]

deathmark

[strange chasm]

That's pretty pog

[left ledge]

Can we please

PLEASE

[barren plume]

No

[left ledge]

Get more sin buffs

Please

[void hound]

not happening

[left ledge]

Nerf sub

Buff sin

Let’s go

[warm depot]

just

[barren plume]

Nerf sub buff shaman

[strange chasm]

That also means thistle tea won't proc lol right

[warm depot]

remove sub and outlaw from the game

[barren plume]

Duh

[warm depot]

sin is the only spec

[strange chasm]

and you'll still have to press it?

[left ledge]

Can manually use it yeah

[pliant topaz]

turns out doubling dashing scoundrels energy regen by simply taking the new TTK talent

is pretty stonks

[left ledge]

Yes and you know what

[pliant topaz]

or not double, but increasing it by 40%

[barren plume]

Does sub have double dash?

[strange chasm]

I did enjoy sin in bfa when you had infinite haste lol

[left ledge]

Can we tie shadowblades to deathmark now

Can we just give sin shadowblades

Poison blades

How cool is that

Activates with dm

[barren plume]

I like that idea

[left ledge]

While active

[barren plume]

It insta kills the target

[left ledge]

Envenom fills your cp

[barren plume]

And removed the global of envenom

Removes

[left ledge]

Please

Fuck

I need that

[barren plume]

Yea I’d watch that on the sideline as sub

[left ledge]

Can we also remove sectec from the game

[pliant topaz]

already there bud

[left ledge]

I don’t like that sub rogue has a button

[pliant topaz]

sectech is not as high value anymore

just wait 1 more week

[left ledge]

No no

Remove it

Completely

[pliant topaz]

based based

bring back gb. and a talent that says if u are at 7 cp and u gb. empty your cps for a big gb. then delete everything else

we're so back

[barren plume]

Sub logs gonna tank hard where we use 2nd vanish before an intermission

What’s happening to sec tec next week that devalues it

[left ledge]

Fuck yes dude

What if they remove finishers

Don’t rework our mastery

And then it’s just gloomblade and snd spam (remove cttc)

Holy shit

Please can we get that

[dry plank]

Noice

[uneven scarab]

[keen dome]

Just give Sub all the abilities from Ky'veza

Don't tune them, just as is.

[steel horizon]

We're really down bad, huh

[tidal furnace]

Can I have someone give this log a gander?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mCPY9yT1dkzRNZVW#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=19

[topaz raptor]

your item level is extraordinarily low for mythic at this point

dry cold blood sec tech outside of dance at 0:34 doesn't sound right but i haven't played a lot of deathstalker

and then symbols and dance are desynced again at 1:05

to my knowledge, deathstalker is extremely straightforward with its usage of symbols and dance

[tidal furnace]

Right there's a gap after the opener where I have symbols + SD, but missing sectech

But i get out of line

Yea I've been doing this wrong

[topaz raptor]

if you look on lorrgs they just follow the rules

symbols and dance together before sec tech every time every 25s, do it twice when you have vanish

[tidal furnace]

Yea I guess I've been consistently trying to overthink the usage of this

Anything else that stands out?

besides my ilvl

lol

[gilded ferry]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[vale pine]

for another week yes

[tropic pier]

Is this talent for 1 hr tricks bugged? I have it talented but it only shows as 30s duration.

[hazy breach]

You need to proc tricks

The threat redirect is 6s by default, with that talent its 60 minutes instead

[tropic pier]

Ah thank you, I missed that.

[surreal knoll]

Did they release full .5 patch notes yet?

[pliant topaz]

Yeah like 2 weeks ago

[golden totem]

wait

patch is next reset?

[vale pine]

i compiled them in one post

[surreal knoll]

Oh awesome!

[barren plume]

Terrible changes hate it

[vale pine]

haha, its not even out

try to test it before you hate on it

(it won't make it better, but at least its a good argument)

[surreal knoll]

I’m too stubborn to learn sin, so I’m stuck here no matter what

[vale pine]

thats fine, we suffer together

[surreal knoll]

Are there preliminary talent recommendations for the patch, or should I yolo raid next Tuesday?

[vale pine]

we will have pins, guides will be updated

just wait

[surreal knoll]

Roger that, thank you for your service 🫡

[merry agate]

Oh nyo guys...
Just realized if we play supercharged we'll have to pick recuperate

[vale pine]

don't worry

[merry agate]

[vale pine]

we woll forgo soothing too

which also has been halfed in benefits for sub

[merry agate]

Guild mates couldnt believe when i told them it basically does nothing since its Release in shadowlands

[vale pine]

it does something but just very little

[merry agate]

Yeah sometimes the odd tick here or there 🤔

[gaunt tiger]

can we run grace and transmitter or does the trinket cd cause issues

[keen dome]

At least Recuperator is in it's natural state and it won't do anything unexpected

like work

[vale pine]

you can

[vale pine]

[merry agate]

The devil i do know vs the devil i dont?

[keen dome]

The day Reupcerator works will be a very confusing day. "Where is all this healing coming from?!"

[vale pine]

for trinket combos

just sim how good it is

[spice matrix]

God recoupe sucks so bad

[merry agate]

While were at healing... what are you guys thinking about the Lifesteal back enchant?...

Its 5s 250k heal isnt listed in logs or Details... does it work?

[surreal knoll]

Unfortunately I can’t sim not being able to see the transmitter ball 🤣🤣

[vale pine]

oh

ball is def. the worse one

[left ledge]

You get used to it

I always turn so that I’m facing parallel to the boss and then hit transmitter

Always spawns forward and right

To where you’re facing

[vale pine]

it bugs out in underwater dungoens

so you can't collect orbs

well delves

[topaz raptor]

isn't that the out-of-combat one?

it won't show in logs if it only works out of combat

[pastel rampart]

yeah combat logging unfortunately does not log th stuff that isnt in combat

otherwise it would be logging and not combat logging o7

[formal helm]

In gb and nw it has a chance to go into narnia too

Fucking floated in air

Same in mists

[vale pine]

i might be harsh

but it is one of the worse trinket designes we had

[formal helm]

Ye

The thing where you have to stand

Spawned in water for me on last boss sieg3

Not even the part where you can stand...

It's just frustrating

[empty plume]

I’ll fuckin jump off a cliff to catch my ball

[azure mauve]

such a contrast to s1 dragonflight

s1 DF trinkets are goated imo

[empty plume]

The stand-on-the-circle proc is bis af, comes with free %aoe DR

[azure mauve]

namely grieftorch and boon

[merry agate]

Well shit just checked and its out of combat only

Okay reading is Important

And my ass was sittin there;
Holy shit this is kinda strong

[sullen hare]

that reminds me I need to be AFKing in dornogal pressing it on cooldown in case it spawns the toy add

[tardy badge]

hows sub looking after the shadowdust removal? is it out on ptr?

[barren plume]

You see the Deadpool wolverine movie? Sub looks like the dog

[brave escarp]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen dome]

that dog is pretty cool though

[barren plume]

Yea never said we weren’t cool

[sullen hare]

bad news folks, I got a myth track skardyn's in my vault. I may be forced to go assassination

[lilac stag]

How is that bad news?

[barren plume]

I can’t imagine any better news other than sub getting a real buff/rework

Give rogue that shaman and mage treatment

Shaman this season I mean not classic shaman

[topaz raptor]

the good news is that 639 skardyns is like .3% dps above 619 skardyns

[formal helm]

Huh?

[lilac stag]

Assa got that treatment.

[crimson wind]

Wax or whetstone

[lilac stag]

Stone

[vestal plover]

Myth Set gloves vs empowering crystal, I have hero shadowbinding dagger and void reaper contract - I think i take the crystal right

[lilac stag]

I think you sim

and do so at max upgrade.

[formal helm]

^

[sullen hare]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=226810/infiltrators-shroud

[upper summit]

Does the tooltip on Lingering Darkness just bugged?

[sullen hare]

it's bad news because I want sub to get the treatment 😦

[hazy breach]

Yes, the talent works

Just tooltip issue

[vale pine]

the trinket has a "hidden" bonus.
It can if you are not in dungeons/raids spawn a rare mob you get a toy from if you kill it

[formal helm]

Oh
I have that

[vale pine]

but its fairly small chance, e.g. took me 2h to get it to spawn

[upper summit]

Does it work with Mandate Trinket, I am getting the samish dmg with the buff or not the buff. Or Does it not scale with it in the first place?

I assume Shadow Dance / Symbol / Deeper Daggers / Lingering Darkness worked with the trinket to give it a 78% dmg amp

[hazy breach]

No all of those do not work

[upper summit]

Damn

[hazy breach]

Lingering darkness used to be bugged and worked on mandate atleast

Maybe its been fixed

Generally specs talents and spells only affect the spells of the class itself except when they give you flat our stats (like +10% crit or something)

Anytime that is not the case its a bug

[upper summit]

MM gets so much scaling with it from Unerring Vision and Dark Ranger.

With we could get the treatment for scaling too then

[hazy breach]

Well in aberrus in dragonflight they purposefully removed all of those effects from working on items

Now theyve just added more of them and forgotten to block non-class spells on them

If class effects work on items they end up being useless for everybody that doesnt have big amps or turbo op for ones that do

Instead of being alright/good on everybody

[lilac stag]

That’s a whole lot of disappointment waiting for you

[upper summit]

Yeah, I saw sub loving Mandate and I am like that makese sense because of Shadow / Dmg amps... but like if trinket does not scale with then why haha

[hazy breach]

It doesnt love it

Its just a fine trinket, its about as good as void reaper

Just more burst

[sullen hare]

I've tried to hold on for so long though

[wispy pebble]

I hope next tier has trinkets that actually feel good to use

[soft summit]

It would benice to have a PTR sub discussion thread so we can theory craft and stuff

[topaz raptor]

I am hoping we get a trinket that spawns an NPC that you have to choose the correct dialogue option for

[soft summit]

lol!

[wispy pebble]

Don't give them ideas

[soft summit]

sounds like something bliz would love to implement

[wispy pebble]

I swear to god

[pale burrow]

yo sub dudes

long time no see

how are yall doin

seems like you guys are right infront of extinction

[thick temple]

Being told to switch to assa everyday

[pale burrow]

That's something that not sin players can relate to I gues

[thick temple]

Is it recommended to stack versatile onyxs as much as you can for sockets or is it supposed to vary for the focusing lens?

Like sapphires n such

[near rivet]

do focusing lens dmg stack with unique gem count?

[hazy breach]

No

It just picks a random one

[thick temple]

Gotcha

[near rivet]

stack the purple ones

[thick temple]

Lots of word hard for me

[near rivet]

to roll shadow dmg to be amped with lingering

*not an gearing advice
just sim urself

[hazy breach]

Even without that full vers+mastery is usually fine, the crit gem thing is so extremly minor

That its probably more worth to grab movespeed

Maybe not on rogue but on slower classes its 100% more worth

[placid jacinth]

im not a fan that i switched to sin from sub with sub stats and instantly gained 100k dps from sub :{

[rigid pasture]

switching to assassination

[hollow cobalt]

Wondering why Coup doesnt have animation

[sullen hare]

better to not have one than animation lock me, imo

[pale burrow]

you know you can't make a comeback as sub then

[pale burrow]

no animation > animation

would wish to delete ambush animation

[sullen hare]

does your raid have a shaman? mine doesn't 😦

[oak hearth]

is sub gonna be good next week or what

i hate sin

send help

[topaz egret]

Sub will be 10% better than Assa next week

I'll all scenarios

[hazy breach]

[oak hearth]

you fr or u bullshittin

bros cappin

[pale burrow]

[oak hearth]

bros gotta be cappin

LOOK AT THE EMOJIS

[topaz egret]

I would never lie on the internet

[oak hearth]

FUCK

KUSH

WHY YOU GET MY HOPES UP MAN

[pale burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/21-cafers-uma-musume-nishino-flower-gif-3828755736912554284

[topaz egret]

Honestly though I think dark brew sub will go hard in m+ next week

[haughty mural]

Next week all our bugs are fixed

[oak hearth]

why are yall forsaken me

if if i switch all my gear to sandbag ima cry man

[haughty mural]

Shadow blades duration will be 24sec

Finality will get doubled

Blizzard told me

[oak hearth]

im inciting a riot

for this

bringing all the dk players here

wait is pv still gonna be around next week

#1 PV Hater

[topaz egret]

Whenever replicating shadows get fixed sub rogue is playable

[oak hearth]

replicating shadows is broken?

what

ggs

[haughty mural]

Since 10.2

[topaz egret]

Yea only for 2 years now

[oak hearth]

that's when i quit

that's actually insane

the fuck

i had my issues w replicating shadows but it being broken is insane

whats wrong with it

[topaz egret]

It makes shadowcraft proc when it's not supposed to

[haughty mural]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Bugs - Subtlety Rogue

[topaz egret]

Eats combo points

Tldr

[oak hearth]

oof

[haughty mural]

Yea shadowcraft interaction is cursed with it

[oak hearth]

rough

[wise badger]

bro sin is so op

[topaz egret]

I wish sub was op

[pliant topaz]

its op you havent heard? dust exists = sub turbo super stonks op

[steel zinc]

[pale burrow]

why is no one switching law?

always sin here sin there

[sly shore]

cos it's not assa

[pliant topaz]

cuz fuck outlaw

[wise badger]

I'm 606 mostly versa/mastery and was doing around 900k in NW with sub

[pale burrow]

dont you guys like pirates

[sly shore]

no

[pliant topaz]

no

[wise badger]

I just did 1.32m as sin wtf

[wise badger]

don't even know how to play it

[pale burrow]

[sly shore]

you just do more damage as assa

in the same gear

[wise badger]

so op i swear

[pale burrow]

be smart and go law

[charred sandal]

[pale burrow]

trust

big big dam

you guys dont believe

[pliant topaz]

we believe

we just hate outlaw

cuz fuck outlaw

[pale burrow]

[haughty mural]

https://tenor.com/view/tonight-doom-gif-19873326

[charred sandal]

jack sparrow lookin ahh

[pale burrow]

armin

u

seem

[topaz egret]

I looted a mythic warpblade 3 weeks ago, never used it

[pale burrow]

biased

[pale burrow]

your law bad anyways

zeross could out dps u

without his redbull

[topaz egret]

Okay

I asked

[haughty mural]

[hazy breach]

Kush has unearthed hidden sub technology that will make it OP next patch for sure

[lilac stag]

All hail Kush.

[topaz egret]

Yeah for sure I will use dark magic to summon some blizzard devs

[haughty mural]

Something with

[pale burrow]

Ain't Realz a sub enjoyer tho

[lilac stag]

no. Havoc enjoyer

[sullen hare]

he's got a weird way of showing it

if he is

[pale burrow]

yall cooked

[topaz egret]

I mean sub = submissive, which has a strong overlap with sadomasochism

It does make sense

[pale burrow]

[lilac stag]

so we need a mami and not a dev?

[haughty mural]

We need Jesus

It’s all g ! We get 3 sod charges

[dry yarrow]

[tepid trellis]

wanna make a demon summoning circle just incase?

[formal helm]

I'm in

[lilac stag]

just start pinging realz. I’m sure that will work. No problems what so ever.

[ebon tiger]

these monkey paw changes are darksided already. I'll take my chances with a demon

[tepid trellis]

i could just.... uknow

dm him

[formal helm]

Pog

Do it

[lilac stag]

he’d have to respond

[pliant topaz]

dont u need a sacrafice for that? oh im down we can sacrafice #outlaw

[tepid trellis]

last time i did

it

he did respond

[lilac stag]

so do it?

[formal helm]

👀

[lilac stag]

Or are you happy with the changes?

[pliant topaz]

yeah

[tepid trellis]

at this point

[pliant topaz]

gives him more lost ark time

[tepid trellis]

i do not care

[haughty mural]

What did he respond ?

[formal helm]

There's no way anyone is happy with them lmfao

[haughty mural]

Did he delete dust because ur dm ?

[lilac stag]

so you can try to help but nah fam fuck it. Got it.

[haughty mural]

*of

[pliant topaz]

but like, he cant though

[lilac stag]

I know you meant the 🦝 but I’m going to go with you meaning realz

[pliant topaz]

well i meant racoon so

i dont even know if realz can help either tbh

what if hes told by his boss that pays his salary to work on mage instead?

[tepid trellis]

he cant just change an entire spec by the whim of a discord being madge

[pliant topaz]

is he gonna say: nah mr boss fuck you my racoon friend is sadge

[lilac stag]

change a spec? Maybe just look at the damn bugs

[haughty mural]

Replicating

[tepid trellis]

he knows they exist

but he is just one guy

[jade canopy]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tepid trellis]

not much the man can do if the job isnt relegated to him

[haughty mural]

yea it’s not fair to blame him tbh

He did so much good in the past

[pliant topaz]

thats my point yea

if his boss said -> remove dust put something in there for now and thats it. u have 2 hours

whats he gonna do? it is what it is

i blame management if anything than actual devs

[tepid trellis]

sometimes it feels like people think that the devs somehow enjoy shit being bugged, or that people are unhappy

[haughty mural]

people tend to point fingers if they get frustrated

[pliant topaz]

although I will say it is very very weird whats going on with sub. litearlly look at most class changes posted during ptr.
hunter got some slight tuning changes, they got a dev note that said blablabla we wanted to buff their aoe without buffing single target so this.
mage slight change -> they got a dev note saying the purpose
but then rogues like -> dust removed note? flag back t 1.5 note? deaths perception to give you litearl aids and somehow more uptime requirement than outlaw-> note?

[sullen hare]

one day goremaw'll go missing and I'm not sure anyone will notice

[sturdy moat]

How is sub in m+ post black powder buffs ?

any meaningful shift

[lilac stag]

Nope

play assa

[sturdy moat]

dont mind if i do

[sweet summit]

does LE or anyone else have just the tts transmitter weakaura

or is it in a whole pack of stuff

[smoky goblet]

jw in opener, why do we rupture before popping SD then use ST as the first finisher? instead of SD > Rup > ST?

[gilded ferry]

you mean this one?
https://wago.io/MuSsmjIcR/2

[sweet summit]

lets gooo

[pliant topaz]

because rupture doesnt do instance damage so its just a fully wasted gcd if casted in dance - it gives 1 dm stack so 6% damage but thats not enough to offset the damage loss from the wasted gcd)

[sweet summit]

question from u guys, i have elv ui and WA and want to get rid of one to make game more lightweight do i just drop elvui ?

i like my elvui its clean and sexy but i can just remake it in WAs kinda right

[lilac stag]

Delete elv

[smoky goblet]

ty, was just curious it thought we were supposed to build the stacks of DM w/ it, so was confused

[lilac stag]

Don’t use was for the interface

[sweet summit]

shii standard blizzard interface time

[rigid pasture]

delete elvui and dont add weak auras that add models

[ivory salmon]

i mean if you have to remove one of them its pretty easy you cant play the game without weakauras

[sweet summit]

ive been playing without WAs on most of the time but ur prolly right

rip my sexy clean UI

[gilded ferry]

if you have the time

i have a long ass tweet for you to read

from elvui dev himself

[sweet summit]

send it

[gilded ferry]

https://x.com/Luckyone961/status/1843256715917050331

Luckyone (@Luckyone961) on X

Performance issues in raids

Since everyone and their grandfather appears to be an expert on social media when it comes to FPS and frametime issues, let's have a little realtalk, explanations and recommendations.

1.) Currently known bugs in the game

- Models and modelscenes

Twitter · Oct 7, 2024, 11:47 AM

[sweet summit]

wait is this from elvui or from WA

[gilded ferry]

elvui

[sweet summit]

cuz the model thing is a weakaura thing right ?

[gilded ferry]

i should have been clearer

[sweet summit]

with the fps drops and everything

[charred sandal]

Some was also fps dropping (allegedly)

[steel horizon]

Oh shit. This one actually differentiates between orb and platform?

[hazy breach]

Not really

Or well, it does tell you when you stand in the platform, but before you run into the platform it doesnt know if its orbs or that

[charred sandal]

Yall think im being a fool if i believe blizzard would give 1 free race change with the upcoming drakthyr thing

[hazy breach]

Why would they, or rather why would you want to swap

We're not priests

[charred sandal]

Reasons: visage form looks cool, double jump, double jump (2 times), %mastery (placebo), double jump, knock back funny moments

Also: double jump

[sullen hare]

you make a convincing argument for switching, but not for blizzard giving it away 😄

[charred sandal]

Guess ffxiv brainwashed me, those mfs giving out free racechange everytime minor visual update comes out ☠️

[south seal]

!sim

[jaunty heath]

Sorry for ping, do you by chance know if they fixed the issue with DS Mark while having 2 rogues in your raid?

Didn’t have to think about it until now because my co rogue plays law but he wants to play sin for brood prog after 1 night of law

[hazy breach]

Yes

Not sure if it was ever on live

[jaunty heath]

Perfect thanks

[hazy breach]

Mightve been for like the prepurchase weekend or something, but it was fixed a long time ago

[jaunty heath]

Yeah I wasn’t sure because I never bothered checking since we never had to think about it

But Ty sir

[gaunt tiger]

Random question, but I was looking at !fuu to see how down bad we are and Outlaw sims higher across the board. Except logs dont seem to support that, is Outlaw just better on paper, but in raid falls off?

[pliant topaz]

outlaw is very uptime requirement and gets punished a lot when it loses uptime

so mechanics really hurt it in raid

also outlaw cant blow up ads super fast to pad as hard as other specs can

[twilit phoenix]

if they made a tier with no mechanics outlaw would be so good

no mechanics and 8 target boss fights

poggers!!!!!!!

[gaunt tiger]

lmao a static hydra fight

[soft summit]

It’s pretty clear though none of the devs in charge actually play sub rogue anything higher than a mythic 2 or 3

[vestal escarp]

finished a GB weekly with more evis casts than bp

Dn

[vale lagoon]

im confused though, i think it makes perfect sense that realz wouldn't get the greenlight to completely redesign sub, but if he literally has a list of unintended bugs, would they really just tell him not to fix them?

because while all the shadowed finisher sutff might be hard to fix

flurry itself is literally just a value change right

[teal night]

its becuase its not outlaw blizz best boy

[vestal escarp]

one dev lurking here is a bonus and shouldnt be this much of a topic

if you gotta point the finger do it at blizz, safest option

either way blue posts are not multi-signed

[tepid trellis]

Highly likely that not many of the devs actively plays wow. I know I wouldn’t if it was also my job

[brazen steppe]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[onyx hare]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[hazy breach]

Hey do you guys like "needing" restealths as assa?

Then get ready because the first dance seems really really strong

[pliant topaz]

:3

[vestal escarp]

[merry agate]

Yes i sure do love to spend 1 talent point for a one time 4 second longer SD

[vestal escarp]

it's restealth + any amount of sitting packs to get to 6s

couple it with the sluggish rupture spread

[merry agate]

True big stonks in m+

[hazy breach]

Its unironically pretty close to PE and WM in a standard ST sim

Not better, but close

[merry agate]

Oh the humanity

[vestal escarp]

even overpowered in the 30s meta

[pliant topaz]

turns out if your talents are as dogshit as they are. 4 extra seconds of dance over a 5 minute fight is pretty good HAHAAHAHAHA

[vestal escarp]

you're not catching up to opener dps anyway so...

[humble fjord]

so is deathstalker the play now for m+?

[wispy bolt]

did we get nerfed? im doing less damage in raid this week than last...

or am i just dogshit today

[patent ermine]

Well raid DMG is also dependent on your raid group

In a sense

Maybe the fights are just lasting longer or something or lining up bad w. CDs?

Or going faster and you don't get that last CD

[soft summit]

I don’t understand what these upcoming changes are going to do? Literately our rotation is the same. Our shadow dance up time will be the same. Our downtime will be the same. The trickster bugs will still be the same.

[lilac stag]

!dot5

[wicked jolt]

The power level of the spec stays about the same but the changes are generally a downgrade.
Things that get worse in the patch:

• Talent diversity
• Defensives
• Gameplay
  This does not meant he patch is bad, just that it isn't a great update to Subtlety.

[soft summit]

What will we be doing differently come next week? And how great an impact will it be?

The bot lists all bad things happening with the patch with zero good things. Then says “not a bad patch” lol

[lilac stag]

Periods matter in paragraphs.

[short radish]

respeccing assi permanently for this tier.

impact will be pretty good. your damage will increase as well as the amount of control you can provide in m+

[wispy bolt]

i did 30k less dps on sikran, no messups i can remember. exact same fight length and im higher ilvl 😦 shit feels weaker

or i feel off

something

[patent ermine]

I just perma respec frost DK, it's great

And I get to keep cloak of shadows basically

And cheat death

[sinful sluice]

whats the best simc setting for cleaves? do i just go dungeon slice

[smoky goblet]

!log

[vale lagoon]

bros

[barren plume]

!log

[vale lagoon]

aint no way

they legit turned NW into SBG

it's so free now

[barren plume]

SBG?

[vale lagoon]

shadowmoon burial ground

from df s1

i had that timed on 24 when everything else was on 21/22

[barren plume]

Ohh

The nerds hit stitch that hard?

Nerfs

[vale lagoon]

its the way they nerfed it man

now ur only allowed to use 1 spear

and u only NEED 1

so u get a spear for every other boss too

[barren plume]

Interesting

[vale lagoon]

yeh almost 2 chested it on 11 just now

previously my score from that dungeon was a +7 lmao

man i'd like to see some math as to how much of a M+ buff next tuesday will be tho

i feel like we're so raid-focused in here

[hard ember]

imagine it's quite a bit ahead in aoe then

[limpid lynx]

Are we using 2nd / 3rd dance during the subrefuge with trickster dust build or do we start after it runs out ?

[tribal blade]

there's no fucking way

that is just tragic

how bad our talents are

fun fact, i'm able to spam FoK 12 times while not in combat w/o running out of energy

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[tribal blade]

@spark tusk are my WAs fucked, i can't see the clear the witnesses buff from your WA pack anymore

i tried getting the standalone one but that one also isn't showing

[spark tusk]

are you sub?

I'm specifically hiding it if you are sin with VV

Or if you're in dance while sub

[tribal blade]

OHHH that's it ok

i'm an idiot

[spark tusk]

all good, you're not the first to ask]

[tribal blade]

yeah i knew yours is hidden depending on situations, but never noticed it's hidden when talented into VV

[vale lagoon]

lmaooooo

peak comedy

[warm depot]

LOL

[wanton perch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[flint sundial]

!bos

[little epoch]

send link

[vale lagoon]

https://raider.io/characters/us/illidan/Boneçherry

my CoT score is still from a 6 I did on the 1st week lmao

or was it the 2nd

forgot

[light imp]

wish i could even find groups for +11s

[muted agate]

BRUH!!!!

[wind canopy]

Two coins ain't too bad

[lilac stag]

Lucky you!

[light imp]

HEH

[vale lagoon]

...dunno if thats good or bad lol

come next week...

[light imp]

2m cd, rip

wont even match up with dark brew anymore

[vale lagoon]

yeah rly sucks

bcuz i kinda

rly wanted that trinket over transmitter

[light imp]

oh yeah transmitter is a troll

but im finding that the ball and platform always spawn to NE of whichever way your character is facing

in the same spot and distance, i've pretty much gotten the muscle memory down to just run to that spot instinctively at this point

[vale lagoon]

minigame = autmatically bad gameplay

[lilac stag]

Just play assa. lol.

!transmitter

[wicked jolt]

The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png

[vale lagoon]

it's honestly tempting

im rly starting to feel how subpar the spec is

[frosty bridge]

assa is da way for now, sub just pity

[lilac stag]

Sub is flat out inting

[frosty bridge]

went assa no regrets, press garrote twice same target and rupture do same dps like sub

[vale lagoon]

im just high on copium waiting for the 11.0.5 changes

[lilac stag]

except you have energy to do more

[vale lagoon]

thinking it somehow skyrockets us into like

maybe b tier

[lilac stag]

You’re fucking high. Lol

[vale lagoon]

just meeting the bare minimum of being middle of the pack maybe

:(((

[short radish]

who knows

maybe they will also throw an aura buff in

[vale lagoon]

last second bugfix?

[light imp]

i thought the 11.0.5 changes were basically a nerf

lol

yknow cause blizz likes to salt the wound and kick while down

[vale lagoon]

man i kinda dread having to drop vigor and tea tho

[alpine wraith]

idk never played them this expansion

it is kinda useless for sub

[vale lagoon]

idk, they sim well and feel good in keys

like rn tea + dust is like

way closer to dark brew DS

[hazy breach]

Numerically its a buff

But instead of every symbols being symbols+dance+sectech like dust DS is now on St

We end up with a naked symbols without dance and our second dance during bursts frequently wont have 2 sectechs, especially not during keys without skyfury

Idk playstyle feels worse, defensives are worse, talent diversity looks worse

[vale lagoon]

even with wm + inev?

[summer mica]

devs did a good job

[hazy breach]

Yes

[vale lagoon]

jeez

[tepid trellis]

[vale lagoon]

4 seconds off of shadow blades is that bad?

dang

[hazy breach]

Current db would hold of on the second dance by 4 seconds to farm cdr

Now you have to send immediately or it wont be in blades

[vale lagoon]

wait what

oh

but does it matter that it isn't in blades

[short radish]

huge ocarina

[vale lagoon]

the blades bonus doesnt even work anyway KEKW

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter for sectech

But the rest of the dance

[vale lagoon]

oh i see

[hazy breach]

Its better to send in blades+transmitter and miss sectech

Than holding for sectech

🙃

[vale lagoon]

but man that's rough

with the numbers sub is pulling

i feel like we wouldn't be game breaking even if we just had the full blades

at 1:30

imagine if they made death perception extend blade duration instead

like that legion legendary lol

or maybe the rotten can do that

[light imp]

are you serious....

for shits and iggles i swapped to ass with the M+ build from wowhead

5 target dummies, 2 garrotes 2 ruptures and a crimson tempest, 2m dps

[tepid trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[light imp]

brb finding some rope

[frosty bridge]

exactly, on sub you need to sweat to do the same

or worse :x

[tepid trellis]

you would need to sweat more

and do less

hf

[vale lagoon]

btw guys

weird question about flag

so when it comes up in the middle of a fight

and u go to use it again, but u dont need to refresh rupture

[frosty bridge]

you hold flag for blades always

[vale lagoon]

do u still throw out a random evisc first after u flag

b4 going into dance

or do u just full send?

[frosty bridge]

ah it is not that question lol 😄

[vale lagoon]

bcuz ur building up the mastery for sectech right

[tepid trellis]

full send

[vale lagoon]

pog ty

[tepid trellis]

you just go flag-dance+finish

[vale lagoon]

k so sending on cd

is more important than building a few stacks for sectech

got it

[light imp]

really? even tho flag is 24 seconds and SB is 20, getting that extra CDR of mastery isn't ever so slightly better than not? since SB will end before flag

[tepid trellis]

depending on the hero talent you would either sectech first or as 2nd finisher

but 1 finisher before going into dance

would only give you 19% mastery from flag

[alpine wraith]

yea you wont need to bother much next week because you need to send sec tech instantly

otherwise you dont even get a second one on the second dance kekw

[tribal blade]

take the ocarina you coward

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hard ember]

drinking horn cover but for blades

https://i.imgur.com/0NgIhbX.png

[fickle meteor]

!wax

[wicked jolt]

Bubbling wax:

• Can be pickpocketed from kobolds in e.g. The Ringing Deeps. (needs The Final Candle questline completed.)
• Only use it on one weapon. (does not stack)

[young path]

Oh it’s so blatantly imbalanced… assa in keys is ridiculous for overall vs sub

[tribal blade]

just lost a 12 NW that we were steamrolling to ragnaros tank dc

classic

[young path]

I haven’t played it since DF and just timed a 12 ara as mut

But maybe now I’ll get invited as sub w/a 12 timed…

Like a ninja 😆

[tribal blade]

it's really hard, wouldn't count on it

[umbral topaz]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[oak idol]

just sign up as sin like I do on outlaw ;)

[alpine wraith]

WE DID IT BOYS

[oak idol]

big sub trinket

champ :(

[tepid trellis]

[alpine wraith]

so happy for you

finally unleashed

[alpine wraith]

biggus cloakus

or neck

[sly shore]

cloak probs

[tepid trellis]

lost two on kills

guess i just gotta vault it

[jaunty heath]

no one wants the court neck

and youre never getting the rare cloak so id say cloak

[tepid trellis]

cloak and catalyze it kieron

DO IT

who plays assa anyway

[sly shore]

Neck kinda big on assa even

[tepid trellis]

cloak is bait anyway

does fuck all

just a tiny lil bonus

[sly shore]

I don't get vault this week so

I will decide later

[tepid trellis]

this will prolly be my last one as well

[vale pine]

we have 2 channels you can discuss:
#1 - #subtlety
#2 - #1065728795455266888
there is no reason to seperate ptr from regular discussions

[alpine wraith]

!transmitter

[wicked jolt]

The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png

[sly shore]

pretty sure neck is bait

just cos I have m+ 619 necks

that are just as good

for assa

[alpine wraith]

im using cloak because the extra effect is quite nice

5% avo

[alpine wraith]

also well it was a metric ton of agi

[sly shore]

as expected

so cloak for sure

[keen dome]

Bad vault, terrible vault. At least 15 'free' gilded is nice to another piece I guess...

[alpine wraith]

i got mythic tier chest

[keen dome]

Jealous. It's so pretty looking.

Myth twin fang instruments, which means I can take my Skardyn's to 623 for free at least.

[alpine wraith]

twin fangs is not super bad on m+

but on st is meh

[keen dome]

Yeah. Also 2 minutes.

I dunno what I'll end up using come the 22nd

[round latch]

wings or that neck(its kinky for sin at least)

ah nvm u figured it out

[sacred cedar]

on fuu's sheet, why is the ST assasination trinket sim done with tricksterfatebound?

[alpine wraith]

assa does not have trickster

[sacred cedar]

sry my mistake, fatebound

[alpine wraith]

no idea maybe it sims better

[sly shore]

It sims slightly better, a matter of a few thousand dps

But deathstalker defensive are broken

[sacred cedar]

So thats why its not played at all

interesting

[round latch]

its that deathstalker is just better overall

[vale pine]

currently

its whatever

11.0.5

yes

deathstalker is better in all content

[sacred cedar]

gotcha

[sick jackal]

With the 11.0.5 what % dps does sub gain?

[alpine wraith]

almost nothing

it is actually a sad day next week

[hazy breach]

3-4%

But idk

[vale pine]

!dot5

[wicked jolt]

The power level of the spec stays about the same but the changes are generally a downgrade.
Things that get worse in the patch:

• Talent diversity
• Defensives
• Gameplay
  This does not meant he patch is bad, just that it isn't a great update to Subtlety.

[vale pine]

^

[oak idol]

goated vault

wings

surely

[sick jackal]

Is it just me or does our dmg feel bad atm

[alpine wraith]

yea it is not that good

[wild vine]

Id pick the tier head brother

Trust me

[alpine wraith]

we dont use tier head

[wild vine]

Unlikely you wont ever get it again on that ilvl in vault

[wild vine]

But its 584

[rain smelt]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rain smelt]

So Sikran isn't really that bad on M+? Surprising

[vale pine]

congrats

[sick jackal]

Got mine from normal today aswell lets go

[light imp]

is there a reason M+ trinket sims using trickster, or would that not effect the results much

[sick jackal]

Is a tier myth shoulder better or a hero transmitter from vault?

Wont be able to get a myth shoulder from mythic any other way

[lilac stag]

Personally I’d take the shoulders cause you’re not getting that any other way.

That being said, what are sims telling you at max upgrade for both assa and sub?

also do the weekly 4 dungeons first if transmitter is the winner

You’re also clearing heroic for awhile. Since dmg buff is individual and not raid based.

[sick jackal]

i did do heroic today no transmitter i am afraid but shoulder sims higher

[lilac stag]

I know. It sucks but also sub gameplay getting worse.

[sly shore]

Boe is very cheap

[sick jackal]

its a shoulder angle i think aswell

[lilac stag]

Boe is an option too

[sly shore]

480k

[lilac stag]

They’re still 800k here

[formal helm]

Nah, surely they cook up smth

[sick jackal]

are you us or eu?

[lilac stag]

NA

[sly shore]

Omeg

[sick jackal]

i am eu will check AH

[sly shore]

575k on NA

https://www.wowpay2win.com/?tier=nerub-ar-palace&region=eu&boes=225722&ilvlRange=629,638

[lilac stag]

I guess crafting shoulders an option too

[sly shore]

the name of the website is misleading hahahah

[formal helm]

Don't think you should link it here...

[sly shore]

It's just a tool that scans the AH and shows the prices

[sick jackal]

if only i could turkey cant buy tokens

[formal helm]

Oh ye

[formal helm]

I opened it now

Still shit name

[sly shore]

based name

[raw wadi]

!up

[alpine wraith]

oh leech shoulders already down to 1 mil

ring stands strong at 1.5 tho

the only 1.3 was already sold

and the 1.4 seems too

[lilac stag]

That site name is actually amazing

I think the heroic queen ring is like 17k dps upgrade (on assa) for me.

Almost crapoed myself after running droptimuzer.

[formal helm]

Had queen trinket in vault (hc) but just went for myth tier head

Can't get it any other way

[alpine wraith]

we dont even use tier hed

unless you are a betrayer

[formal helm]

Didn't see hands drop yet

[lilac stag]

so yes we use tier head.

[alpine wraith]

kek

no one can take my engi helmet from me next week

[formal helm]

Legit have 606 hands from delves.

[alpine wraith]

2k mastery

🦖

[formal helm]

Legit
Should craft it next week

[alpine wraith]

also ER hits for 4.2 mil with transmitter

sadge to see it go

[formal helm]

Xd

[lilac stag]

I just want the ilvl at this point to try to make weekly 8 lfg less painful

[formal helm]

Dw we get first dance and 3 charges of sod

[hazy breach]

First dance is unironically pretty strong

[formal helm]

I'm still not capped with gilded
Legit impossible to get into keys

[lilac stag]

Madqueen still seems strong on assa

[formal helm]

Shit gameplay tho

[hazy breach]

Wdym

Longer dance

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-smile-happy-gif-16653971636788853276

[hazy breach]

Its pretty close to being good on singletarget

On a standard 5 minute st sim

[lilac stag]

This patch has turned Eleem into Hatcha trying to find the most krangled fucking thing possible

[sly shore]

what playing sub does to a mf

[hazy breach]

Thats every patch

[sly shore]

https://tenor.com/view/statue-sculpture-spongebob-gif-15573392

[narrow oak]

Cast Shadow Blades on cooldown, paired with Flagellation as often as possible, is what icy veins says. but are there situations that i cast flagellation alone?

[hazy breach]

No

[narrow oak]

im very very new

ok thanks

[lilac stag]

sub is group as many cds together as possible (for the most part)

[formal helm]

I'm like half way to cap xd

[fair anchor]

We got the same vault i see :p i will go for the shoulder i think, not that big of an upgrade from 619 transmitter to 626

[plush roost]

Is there rng to these silken favor drops (for the raidbuff) or am i unlucky

Or bugged

15/16 cleared heroic twice full and first 4 myth last week

Surely this is a bug

Not having the buff while my entire raid does is hella cringe

[thick temple]

dungeon slice

[narrow oak]

are there any sublety weakauras or platers out there?

[sacred yarrow]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[sacred yarrow]

there you go

[narrow oak]

thank you love

[rough badger]

Do I want my first global in dance to be Evis or SS?

[alpine wraith]

it is 1 per boss

no matter diff

so yea buggo

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/me-too-bro-pc-principal-south-park-s19e8-sponsored-content-gif-20622198

[rain smelt]

Anyone has a link to the 11.0.5 class changes?

[lilac stag]

!dot5

[wicked jolt]

The power level of the spec stays about the same but the changes are generally a downgrade.
Things that get worse in the patch:

• Talent diversity
• Defensives
• Gameplay
  This does not meant he patch is bad, just that it isn't a great update to Subtlety.

[hazy breach]

Doesnt matter

[lilac stag]

There’s also this

[rain smelt]

That was what I was looking for thanks. Looks like a Wowhead post?

[lilac stag]

No

Fuu photoshop

[rain smelt]

Oh

Well thanks!

[lilac stag]

Np

[rain smelt]

Definitely som QoL improvements coming

Like Cut to the Chase and Feint no longer using a GCD

Still hate the Thistle Tea change tho

[haughty mural]

everytime i read that 16 seconds i want to scream

[lilac stag]

There’s a couple bits of that’s nice. Then there’s sub.

[tepid trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/private-skipper-rico-penguins-of-madagascar-smile-and-wave-gif-15715831

[alpine wraith]

i have bad news about cut to the chase kekw

[haughty mural]

[tepid trellis]

blizz when they pretend than any sub rogues are happy with 90 % of the changes

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/joker-smiling-gif-7281079

[alpine wraith]

thx to a bug we still use snd

on the opener

[rain smelt]

You are kidding right?

[haughty mural]

am i surprised ?

[alpine wraith]

i wish

[lilac stag]

No

[haughty mural]

[rain smelt]

🫠 🫠 🫠

[alpine wraith]

and if they fix the bug we actually lose quite a bit of dps

so lose/lose

[rain smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/april-fools-joke-dog-its-fine-this-is-not-gif-1750056094467610487

[haughty mural]

3 things are certain:
death, taxes, more bugs with every patch

[alpine wraith]

i will try more things on friday

but yea

[haughty mural]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Bugs - Subtlety Rogue

[alpine wraith]

also using 1 backstab in dance may come back because of first dance

man i love this wild ride

[lilac stag]

that’s cause we all loved that gameplay.

[hazy breach]

Sure does

[lilac stag]

Bliz took note of it missing this tier.

[haughty mural]

[alpine wraith]

also did some tests and almost 100% of the time it is better to do storm instead of bs for the low cp snd

witness hits hard enough

[lilac stag]

I got the special vers neck last night. So there’s that.

[alpine wraith]

even more if we ditch wm

actually haste is better than crit

[lilac stag]

Guess we’re using tier helm.

[alpine wraith]

so sikran neck is kinda fine

likely engi mastery helmet

or vers

or well if you get enveloping or the other one from vault

those

[lilac stag]

Was a joke

Too early. Hah

[haughty mural]

warning signs angle

[alpine wraith]

nope

[haughty mural]

[alpine wraith]

they actually made premed work

making everything suck

and first dance too

[lilac stag]

how is TFD actually working on ptr. I have to reinstall it.

[slate nest]

Make Sub Great Again, m+ leaderboards make me sad on rio

[haughty mural]

tell your tanks not to chainpull because you need 6 seconds out of combat

[lilac stag]

Ain’t happening

[hazy breach]

Exactly as the tooltip says

If youre out of combat for 6s, your next dance is longer

[lilac stag]

What about raid?

[slate nest]

wait what?

They nerfed us EVEN MORE??

[hazy breach]

Youre not out of combat

So you wont get more than 1 longer dance in the opener

[lilac stag]

kek

[haughty mural]

yes

[hazy breach]

Its not intended to be good for raid

Thats completely fine

[slate nest]

They are making us an only pvp spec again?

[hazy breach]

No?