subtlety

[round latch]

it will

[wispy pebble]

please take you meds dad...

[round latch]

dont have any children but ild be happy to have u man

[frosty bridge]

hopefully they will fix flurry and coup to 1 hit as well

then there is hope

[sullen pivot]

Again WAX is not being used, is it just the KR server?

[round latch]

[alpine wraith]

you can still use it

[keen dome]

I really hope they adjust the crest situation 'cos being full 619, and having 90 heroc rests and nothing to spend it on, sucks.

[alpine wraith]

if you are full 619 you can buy 15 gilded for 90 runed

[keen dome]

ye

[alpine wraith]

just it cant go over the cap

[keen dome]

It's still a pretty bad situation, though.

[steel zinc]

If your full 619 and can't time 9/10 keys or kill first 4 mythic that's a skill issue

[keen dome]

fuck off lol

[alpine wraith]

i will just let them pile up for when i need a craft in 2 weeks

[steel zinc]

Why? It's very obvious people want mythic gear without raiding mythic or doing actual keys.

Also last 2 hc award 30

Then exchanging awards like 15 that's 45 per week

[keen dome]

It's still a pretty frustrating return and massively bottlenecks everything.

It's not very fun, esp as a DPS, to get into 9's

[steel zinc]

You get 45 per week

[keen dome]

HAnsurek is still not doable in a pug.

Or, well, she is but it's still very frustrating.

[steel zinc]

Also m+ and mythic raiding is not a solo game its an mmo

[alpine wraith]

tbh if i didnt mythic raid i would just buy ansurek it is like 150k now

[keen dome]

I'm not really sure why you feel the need to explain it to me, when the system is dogshit.

[alpine wraith]

that is like 30 mins of flipping

[keen dome]

Yeah they're cheap. It's doable but it doesn't change how bottlenecked the situation is. Hero should go to 626 on just heroic crests

The absurd 20 iLevel gap between Hero and Myth is silly

[wispy pebble]

Getting into groups is the hardest part as sub lmao

[alpine wraith]

yea that is new on this expansion i think

they wanted a longer tail end of content

[keen dome]

Hero crests simply end too soon. If they went to 626 it'd feel a lot better.

[alpine wraith]

it'll take like 3 months to upgrade everything to 639 even if you have all the items now

[keen dome]

And by then the season'll basically be over. Great fun.

[alpine wraith]

not really new season is likely on december or january

[wispy pebble]

I think gilded should drop on +8

[jaunty heath]

Heroic items are really week

Tbh

[alpine wraith]

we have the mini wow event tho

[keen dome]

That'd be fine too.

[keen dome]

Absolutely, the gulf between Hero and Myth is massive this season and it's frustrating. 20 ilevels!

[alpine wraith]

hc items are weird normal items need lots of upgrades

[jaunty heath]

Jump from normal -> hc -> myth

[alpine wraith]

and mythic items drop and then you need 75 crests to upgrade

[jaunty heath]

There’s a huge gap between hc and myth

And ye

You can’t really spend on upgrading hc items either

[alpine wraith]

so my mythic gloves are a 4ilvl upgrade until next week

[jaunty heath]

Because you cuck yourself on glided crests

[keen dome]

Yep

[keen path]

Is trickster still the m+ spec or ds now?

[alpine wraith]

you can try ds

i wont

[jaunty heath]

And no Marko not everyone clears mythic on 619 ilvl

The guilds that get last week ce are also a thing

And they still wanna do content in reasonable time

[keen dome]

I've timed a 9. It took me hours to get into the group and do it. Absolutely dire and unfun, even as Ass.

[jaunty heath]

Idk

[alpine wraith]

i can get into 10s now but barely

[keen dome]

I don't realy want to sit around forever to get 12 crests.

[alpine wraith]

and i've already done 11s

and 10s

[jaunty heath]

That’s if you time it

[cosmic jetty]

1300 guilds has killed 4 bosses mythic already, late tier CE guilds are killing mythic bosses

[keen dome]

Yep

[jaunty heath]

Okay and?

First 4 don’t help the gearing situation LOÖ

[cosmic jetty]

It does?

[jaunty heath]

Not really no

[cosmic jetty]

You're complaining about not having crests available

[keen dome]

It wouldn't take much to fix this bottleneck situation. Hero crests to 626. Gilded a step or two lower. Bam, solved.

[cosmic jetty]

thats 60 gilded

[jaunty heath]

Im saying

You can’t upgrade heroic items

Because

You

Are

Nicking

Necking*

Yourself

Can we read

There’s a crest cap you know and if you spend on heroic items

[cosmic jetty]

well if you need more power now to kill a boss then you send some gilded on your hero items?

[jaunty heath]

Myth track is 6 tracks

[cosmic jetty]

If you don't need you hold to optimize for long term

[haughty mural]

Pugging as a nightmare I think as rogue atm

[keen dome]

The first boss drops stuff at 623. That's 15 gilded you waste if you take a hero peice to it.

You get 90 a week.

[haughty mural]

That’s the problem

If you have a team it ain’t that bad

[jaunty heath]

Pugging keys is horrible this season in general

In a team obv it’s fine

But for pugs it’s hell

[wispy pebble]

Being reliant on raid trinket drops also never feels good

[haughty mural]

I’ve timed my 10s and shit and still took me 1,5h to get into gb 8/9

[keen dome]

It's a pretty big step back from DF's gear accessibility and that's actively bad for the whole game.

[haughty mural]

Till my guys came online

[cosmic jetty]

because you expect to have the highest lvl gear already, they intentionally want gearing to take longer

[keen dome]

You are legitimately not understanding the problem

[cosmic jetty]

Was boring as hell being maxed out after a month in DF

[haughty mural]

I mean df s2 gearing was too easy

[wispy pebble]

Getting into 9/10 grim batol is borderline impossible because insane rio people will queue up for skaryns grace

[haughty mural]

But now it’s the opposite

[keen dome]

It's also boring as hell to sit around waiting hours to maybe not even get a full upgrade.

So like, why play the game

boring as fuck

[cosmic jetty]

You're not forced to sit around for hours?

list your own key

fills in minutes

[wispy pebble]

only if you accept the low rio tank that fucks 3rd pull then leaves because he finds another group in 20 secs

[keen dome]

Why can't Hero crests be used to take Hero peices to 626. That's really the crux of it.

[jaunty heath]

I can give you multiple examples of where that has not been true at all this season for me at least

[keen dome]

Why is so much gear progression now stacked at the top end.

[jaunty heath]

If you don’t have gb for trinket it doesn’t fill instantly at all

[keen dome]

The argument of "So it takes longer" doesn't fly because the higher you go the less people engage with the content.

[cosmic jetty]

Sounds like you just have excuses for everything lol

[fierce cedar]

lol

[keen dome]

man

[jaunty heath]

Lmfao

[tribal blade]

true listing your own key is faster

but inevitably it gets bricked at some point

and drops down

and the people you can find to run that lower key are worse

[barren wren]

Guy is already in defensive stance, cannot reason him…

[tribal blade]

so it bricks even lower

[lilac stag]

ez just brick it in guild

[cosmic jetty]

then play the 9?

[wispy pebble]

wish i would get gb once lmao. Its always Mists or NW

[wispy pebble]

atleast guild finishes the run

[fierce cedar]

me when i take in people at 610+ and they cant do a +4

[keen dome]

Excessively more effort for less reward with more reward locked at higher, gatekept levels. It's just unhealthy for the game.

[cosmic jetty]

like you just want the loot without the effort

[tribal blade]

and then the people you find to do the 9 are not good and brick it again

it's a hilarious cycle sometimes

[keen dome]

Nobody is saying that and it's disingenious to keep saying it

[gritty knot]

Why is Trickster still simming higher for me in dungeon slice than DB DS? And also on 5 targets dummies in dornogal I still do around 4 million with evisc trickster and with DB DS I do around 3 million burst with black powder.....Am I doing smth wrong ?

[lilac stag]

I’d just move on. A lot of

[wispy pebble]

what is the "effort" here? Spam applying to groups or listing your own group having to accept low rio people and praying ?

[jaunty heath]

Ur literally tanking most of your tens bro

[cosmic jetty]

On my main

[fierce cedar]

not to mention. isnt this season the most bricked season of all time?

[keen dome]

I haven't even mentioned Myth pieces. I think them being on 10 is pretty w/e. It's explictly the gilded crests + Hero going to 4/6 on Hero crests.

[cosmic jetty]

not on my alts

[wispy pebble]

im bricking more than i finish in 9/10 when i pug. With guilds its free

[tribal blade]

when i had to run my own key during S2 to get title (because not god comp) in the span of like 1 hour i would have my 27 get bricked down to a 24

[alpine wraith]

yea shit goes fast

i've had 13 go to 10 fast

[fierce cedar]

yeah same. i bricked so many keys yesterday its sad

[tribal blade]

i do not trust most of my guildies to actually time any of the non free 10s

[fierce cedar]

sure one shouldnt blame your party as its a group effort but when people die to the first pull or die to boss mechanics there is nothing i can do if ive used my utility to the best of my ability

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's a really big group effort.

[lilac stag]

mythic crests and portals being 1 key level away is hilarious. Hard stopping people at 619 as they’re trying to actively improve.

[keen dome]

Yeah

[fierce cedar]

i had 5 groups in a row where no one understood necrotic wake hook

even after explaining

[tribal blade]

it's kind of crazy

[wispy pebble]

Me watching my team miss 2 hooks on tyrannical stichflesh O.O

[fierce cedar]

and them watching us do it

[lilac stag]

it makes for an even more angry lfg

[frosty bridge]

there should 2 level between myth and portal

[keen dome]

Like I said earlier, it's shoving so much power into the top end and if you primarily play Heroic level content, you jsut get told "okay live at 619 / 620 fuck off for a few months"

[frosty bridge]

like it always was

[fierce cedar]

i also had a tank who stood in the way of the hook every time so we could never beat the boss

and he said this is how you do it in the pro scene

[keen dome]

Keys won't actually get easier over time like they should, 'cos so many people will be gear bottlenecked.

[wispy pebble]

ive unironnically timed more keys with the no pressure community than with pugs

[tribal blade]

in a way it's good that in order to get the max rewards possible you have to actually do hard content

but it's a bit too much atm

[fierce cedar]

yes we bricked

enough of my ranting

[clever delta]

so no bug fixes for sub?

[keen dome]

I don't disagree, yeah. But I do think you need gear accessbility / mobility.

[clever delta]

sub still dead,

[tribal blade]

in previous season people were getting max M+ rewards with doing completely trivial stuff

[keen dome]

Like you said people can't really work to improve their gear / play 'cos they get hard stuck

[frosty bridge]

2 weeks from now we will know for sure if it is dead

like for real if they didnt fix it in prepatch no more hope

[tribal blade]

but if half my raid team of mythic raiders still struggle in keys right now

then it's an issue

[fierce cedar]

what bugs

[keen dome]

It's a great change to get 15/15 Gilded from the final two heroic bosses.

[alpine wraith]

well maybe they tried to do a 12

that is the place of no return

most 11s are doable overgearing them

[keen dome]

Yeah

But it's gonna take a LOT longer for people to overgear them

As in the general population, I mean.

[alpine wraith]

well some people in my guild are already 631

[keen dome]

Not the people who push high keys / myth raid.

[alpine wraith]

just get lucky LUL

meanwhile im 623

this week i will get to 626 or 627 if i spend all crests

and craft

[sinful sluice]

when using 3 secret techs in trickster, is it normal that you dont have next secret tech on next shadow dance+symbols? in this case, do you just skip tech for next dance+symbols?

[alpine wraith]

most of the time you have 1 or 2 sec techs first dance

if sec tech just came last global of fist dance you use it

and use the second dance instantly

so that sec tech also gets buffed

then eventually you get another before third dance ends

[keen dome]

I also think it's worth keeping in mind where the majority of the people play in WoW. If content is too hard / unrewarding / inaccessible then they'll just stop playing.

It's def a balance, but right now it's very skewed.

[alpine wraith]

yea wow now is a seasonal game more than ever

expect a steep decline after the anniversary event is over

but blizz already expected it

that is why they are doing that event

so they can release new raid in feb

piggybacking from anniversary through christmas

[keen dome]

Yeah, I'm curious how it'll feel.

In DF, you had a lot of the population in very high iLevel going from S1 -> 2 and -> 3. less so in 3 due to the jump but it didn't feel very impactful. It was def a bit too quick / easy, but I don't think that's wholly as bad as this.

But now you've got this massive tail and challenge to gear so I'm curious what the median iLevel will be in N/H content once we hit S2 TWW and how big the climb will end up being there.

[tribal blade]

i hear people are fed up because of the new season of M+

[keen dome]

Also due to the changes, so much of the content quickly becomes pointless to do.

[tribal blade]

but the casual player retention is quite good right now too

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's interesting.

Just moving Heroic up a little bit would probably solve a lot of the firction.

[alpine wraith]

i mean most of the people angry are the people hardstuck but they will get used to the new m+ scheme

because +9 and +10 are old 18 and 20

[wispy pebble]

dont think they are fed up with the content itself but how much time you have to invest to play it

[alpine wraith]

the affixes are way easier too

[keen dome]

The affixes changes do feel very good overall.

[alpine wraith]

remember fucken necrotic or bolstering in a 20?

first weeks

SKIP WEEK

[keen dome]

I don't want to, do not bring the trauma back

[wispy pebble]

Spiteful still gives me nightmares

[alpine wraith]

spiteful was whatever for sub

i hated sanguine and explosive the most

[tribal blade]

it's mostly about how miserable it is trying to actually get 10s in

[alpine wraith]

yea think im only getting into mists or dawnbreakers lately

[tribal blade]

the jump in difficulty is too much for most players

[alpine wraith]

not even city of threads

someone needs to make a cool video about how rogue is useful

[wispy pebble]

exactly. Rio should just be hidden and you should only be able to queue for dungeons where you timed the previous difficulty already

[keen dome]

@tribal blade I'm curious about your thoughts on the gearing scale. What do you think would work better?

[sinful sluice]

wait im kinda confused on trickster opener, with one flagellation you use 3 techs right? in this case, do you use 2 dances or three for last secret tech?

[tribal blade]

i'm honestly not sure

[wispy pebble]

3

[sinful sluice]

ahhh i see

[tribal blade]

but i agree with you, the gilded crests dropping off the last 2 bosses of heroic is a great change

[fierce cedar]

oh it does?

lets go

[sinful sluice]

so if i use 3 dances, its normal that i have to wait 4-5 secs to match dance+symbols right?

[frosty bridge]

it is 100%

[tribal blade]

i did have a thought that maybe M+ gear should only be good in M+, kind of like pvp gear

[wispy pebble]

you do 1 symbols blank cast after the tripple dance

[tribal blade]

so like M+ gear would be lower ilvl in raid/pvp/open world

[keen dome]

Yeah, I've seen that idea talked about before and it's interesting.

[sinful sluice]

okok

[tribal blade]

you step into a key and it jumps in ilvl

it would make it so raiders don't feel forced to do keys

[keen dome]

But I think the issue is you'd end up carryign multiple sets of gear around which isn't the best, right?

[tribal blade]

because there are so many people who only care about raid

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

and call M+ a minigame

quite a few on my raid team who think that way

[keen dome]

And there are the oppisite too who just wanna run keys

[wispy pebble]

wouldnt you be even more fckd then if you dont win rolls?

[tribal blade]

i wouldn't mind it either because then it would mean there wouldn't be the mad scramble at the start of every season to do as much M+ as possible

[keen dome]

I think they should have parity between the modes, but I think that's an interesting solution.

[tribal blade]

yes it would be much harder to gear for raid for sure

there could be a different track for raiders to augment their gearing

like you could get M+ pieces just to help a bit

[keen dome]

What about if everything capped at Hero, and then you had gear which went up ilevel in Mythic or M+ or PvP?

[tribal blade]

and then raid could drop valor/some currency that allowed you to buy raid pieces from a vendor again

[keen dome]

Yeah, that'd be great.

"bring back currency and deterministic gear" is probably the best fix toa lot of these issues

[tribal blade]

it would also make it so M+ers wouldn't feel fucked for not raiding

[keen dome]

Which would be very good

[tribal blade]

because a lot of bis gear drops from raid

[frosty bridge]

cool idea to make it like pvp indeed raid is best one and pvp\m+ just scale inside

[keen dome]

I don't think raid being best is good, though.

[frosty bridge]

easier to balance stuff

[tribal blade]

i like doing M+, but i have to say sometimes i just wanna chill in this game and mostly raid, but keys exist

[keen dome]

Because you then still create these issues. But having the pillars have their own progression and scaling off their gear does solve a lot of problems.

[wispy pebble]

wish there wouldve been a fall back to get transmitter ngl. i did lfr normal and hc princess basically every week and got it today in vault. Thats quite long for a trinket that gives me 40k dps

[tribal blade]

and you have to spam keys at the start of every tier

[keen dome]

Ye

[tribal blade]

or else your entire raid team talks shit about you

[keen dome]

I think Blizz should get rid fo the Mythic raid ID lock, too

It's a huge pain point in trying to pug it.

[wispy pebble]

wouldnt be an issue to play a lot of m+ if i didnt have to spam apply and cancel for 30 mins just to brick it in 5 mins and repeat

[lilac stag]

Just give people a reason to run 7-8. Split crest rewards between heroic track and mythic track

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, that'd be a good solution

[lilac stag]

8 mythic 4 heroic.

ez

hire me blizz

[keen dome]

It also does rais ea good point. What happens to 6/7/8 keys? There's no reason to run anything below a 9. Prior seasons you had a reason to run 6's or 8's for weekly stuff.

But now with the massively stacked reward structure, those are 'dead' keys once you can time 9's

[lilac stag]

I’m way being my IO this season, mainly due to health issues. Trying to run 7-8 keys for a small io bump is harder than the 9s

hopefully fixing up this week

[wispy pebble]

also remove the reason for high rio people to run lower key numbers. make gilded crests be convertible into more runed crests than actually running runed difficulties

[keen dome]

Hope you feel better soon, buddy.

[tribal blade]

damn i'm sorry to hear that

[lilac stag]

thx. Fibromyalgia not fun at times.

[keen dome]

Urgh, that's real rough 😦

[lilac stag]

we carry on

[tribal blade]

i don't think you're missing too much haha

[wispy pebble]

catching up in rio is a massive pain because some keys are just oversaturated with high rio high gs people for their bis slots. Why would they accept someone else

[tribal blade]

you'd be on the hard stuck under 12s gang

[keen dome]

Yeah - falling behind is def worse this season too.

[lilac stag]

I just want to be fill vault gang

Which is a struggle

[tribal blade]

good point!

[haughty mural]

aw damn - get well soon buddy
feel ya

[native zodiac]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

you're right as well, doing 7-8s is rough with the kind of people in those keys

[lilac stag]

we ran my 8 dawn to a 10 mists. Fucking missed it by 30 seconds as we didn’t realize no one could do the skip.

[wispy pebble]

"oh look a 2222 rio sub rogue for my +7 grim batol but there is also a 2600 rio aug. Wonder who i will chose"

[graceful crown]

its not even funny how i picked up assassin for a key for the first time, and topped the meters without realising it..............

[lilac stag]

clown car folly proceeds

[tribal blade]

i'm hell bent on making sub work

[keen dome]

I believe in you

[wispy pebble]

Same. CT and wounds just do shit on their own

[keen dome]

the hero we need.

[lilac stag]

If only blizzard was too

[tribal blade]

wiser words never spoken

[haughty mural]

if only ...

[frosty bridge]

press garrote rupture same target twice and tunnel same target gg you are top1

[haughty mural]

"take 3 sod charges"

[lilac stag]

legitimately they toss out a random buff. Eleem runs 8 billon sims. Oh thanks blizz.

5 pages of bugs later

they ain’t doing shit

[graceful crown]

im sorry, i've been bitching so much, but this black powder buff forcing us into deathstalker just feels so fucking dry and bad, and does nothing compared to asssassin pressing garrote + rupture + mutilate and then spamming enveonom

[keen dome]

It's very frustrating. Sub is an amazing spec, but it's just in such a sad spot.

[tribal blade]

this is the issue of playing a spec that gets no dev time

[keen dome]

I did my heroic clear today with my Assa buddy and they just constantly out DPS'd me 😦

[lilac stag]

I ran assa in our heroic

[tribal blade]

haha i've become that guy in raid too

[lilac stag]

Gapped boss dmg on queen

[tribal blade]

i'm starting to run mostly sin now

[keen dome]

I was raid leading so I wanted to play my comfy spec.

I did hit 4.5m burst on Court which made me happy

[frosty bridge]

but sin still won

[wispy pebble]

i always am like 3rd on dmg meter in raid then execute window happens and suddenly im gone

[keen dome]

I was dead for most of that pull because someone got webbed to me in P2 and chased me around the entire room

[frosty bridge]

cause of execute phase

[keen dome]

Which was incredibly funny

[lilac stag]

I’ve got the special neck and mandate in my vault. I’ve never been so torn with a choice before.

[tribal blade]

damn that's a tough choice

[alpine wraith]

the neck is good for assa but for sub it is not that good

[tribal blade]

the neck actually sims quite well for DB sub

surprisingly

[alpine wraith]

yea rupture is big for db

not that surprising tho

[wispy pebble]

imo trinkets are better choice most of the time

[keen dome]

I would take big neck because I like gimmick items

[lilac stag]

Manadate was a no brainer 2 weeks ago

[tribal blade]

i was a bit shocked when i first saw the sim until you guys educated me why

[lilac stag]

now it’s like what helps raid more

Idk how good the mana is for healers. Have to look at logs

[tribal blade]

neck is at max ilvl right

[lilac stag]

Ye

[alpine wraith]

drops at 626

[tribal blade]

i dunno if that changes anything

[lilac stag]

Not really

[tribal blade]

you get some free upgrades

ah

[keen dome]

It's pretty big for Heroic level stuff at least

Same as the cloak, since it's a free 30 crests

[alpine wraith]

cloak is even bigger on mythic

and neck too

you save 75

[keen dome]

Yeah, huge

[lilac stag]

Yea

[tribal blade]

a warr in my guild got it on myth track with leech from vault today

[keen dome]

Huuuuge

[alpine wraith]

damn that is nutty

[tribal blade]

that is some luck right there

[keen dome]

lmao that's a big leech number too

[haughty mural]

all their needed haste in 1 item

[tribal blade]

but i got myth track tier legs with avoidance from vault 😉

so i'm happy

[lilac stag]

if I don’t think I’d be assa on almost every boss I’d pickup queens ezpz

[wispy pebble]

we dropped hc advisor with socket last weak and it went to our heal. Im still sad

[tribal blade]

and then heroic tier chest with avoidance 1 hour later

[alpine wraith]

i can choose between hands or shoulders or legs M

but no tertiary

smh

[lilac stag]

well you can buy shoulders now

[tribal blade]

the first sub boss after rashanan would be silken court

[alpine wraith]

maybe in 1 or 2 weeks i buy them

with leech or smth

[tribal blade]

ovinax and princess sin is the play

[alpine wraith]

right now they are like 8 million

[keen dome]

Isn't Rash'anan still Sin?

[haughty mural]

queens also really good on assa still

[keen dome]

Since execute

[haughty mural]

but thats not helping, i know

[lilac stag]

Haha

[tribal blade]

yeah sin too, i just didn't count it since it's the last "easy" boss

[keen dome]

Very true

[tribal blade]

the first 4 bosses on mythic aren't that bad

[keen dome]

Yeah I'm gonna start pugging them this week or next.

[tribal blade]

and then you hit ovinax and the jump in difficulty is steep

[keen dome]

I think 2 are super doable in pugs

It's just the dumb gamble every time though because of the lockout

[lilac stag]

idk what happened but somehow I was able to upgrade offhand after crafting MH.

[tribal blade]

ngl the first boss is actually a hella long fight for a first boss

[keen dome]

9 minutes or something dumb?

[lilac stag]

did that change this expansion?

[alpine wraith]

it is a bug

but oh well not a surprise

[lilac stag]

well I was surprised

lol

[tribal blade]

not sure how long 1st boss takes now, but first 2 weeks of mythic that boss just took forever

[hazy breach]

If you craft 2 different versions of a weapon/ring/trinket it counts as 2 different items

[haughty mural]

there are bugs in this game ?

[hazy breach]

Like if you swap embellishments

[lilac stag]

I didn’t though

[keen dome]

haha, wow

[alpine wraith]

yea i recrafted for ascencion then got free upgrades ez

[keen dome]

Damn I gotta do that on my 636 dagger

[lilac stag]

I crafted. Then activated outlaw for the first time all expansion.

[hazy breach]

[alpine wraith]

it also has to be from someone else

[steel heart]

Quick question catching up with the BP buff, will we play DS in keys now?

[alpine wraith]

you can try

best of luck

[lilac stag]

and all of the sudden weapons cost nothing

[keen dome]

I'm gonna activate Outlaw.

[lilac stag]

haha

I was so confused.

I recrafted from focusing to ascension from 606 to 619

but that was forever ago

[keen dome]

Outlaw is not the secret, alas.

[lilac stag]

rip

[keen dome]

I should probably put ascension on my dagger anyway

Been running two focusing lenss ince I run them in PvP, and have had terrible ring luck.

[solemn viper]

I mighta be blind but can’t find it anywhere. Are there any embellishments/crafted items we want to go for or we just craft the item that’s the lowest ilvl?

[haughty mural]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[crimson wind]

!craft

!spark

[fierce cedar]

overall damage in a dungeon. i suck ass

[graceful crown]

its ok my first key as DS went so bad i did 300k dps less than usual

x)

[keen dome]

Well, recrafting something to add an embellishment didn't actually let me upgrade my other weapon. sad.

[graceful crown]

cuz everything died b4 i can even start rotation

[alpine wraith]

you need to log off

then on again

[lilac stag]

Bottom of pins. TLDR crit if you do assa and sub in keys and raid. Ascension for both in raids. Focusing for sub.

They’re all very minimal.

[alpine wraith]

if you dont get hit duskthread is the best but

[keen dome]

lmao, yep

this did it!

[alpine wraith]

tbh the diff is so minial

exploit early exploit often

think blizz gave up on this one

[keen dome]

I noticed it actually changed the "made by" which is interesting

In DF a recraft didn't.

Which is probably where this is stemming from.

[gilded ferry]

dino and scath

this newfound bug

changes our build for m+?

[lilac stag]

From assa? No.

[alpine wraith]

you can try DS

it makes me nauseous so you do it

[lilac stag]

eleem pinned a build to try

[gilded ferry]

fuck

[onyx hare]

After playing trickster all tier DS feels like ass in keys

[lilac stag]

if it make 🦖 nauseous, glhf

[alpine wraith]

mouseover ruptures and using tornado

is a recipe for disaster

[gilded ferry]

i mean, dino is kind of a sick man

[alpine wraith]

also no dust

[gilded ferry]

remember when he was the only one playing the rotten in DF?

[lilac stag]

I want to mess with non-nado setups. I think there’s some better prio options

But have to wait. Time for another doctor

[alpine wraith]

just remember ER reverb is only like 1% worse than CB

problem is nimble is bugged so it is actually a bit worse than 1% kekw

man this game

[gilded ferry]

i guess ill stay gearing my monk

[lilac stag]

Override is in pins for that as well. lol

[alpine wraith]

im not going to APL reverb for like 2 weeks

it has left

i dont remember if it was ever pushed too

to vanish after ER instead of sec tech and using SoD when ER is off cd

on the third dance

zzzzzzzzzz

or about to be off cd if you have sht and can tank 1 strike

[haughty mural]

hoping for good news there

[pulsar mauve]

So for all the dumbfucks like me who will keep on playing sub in m+, is DS interesting now ? Or we are still trickster ? It probably depends on the dungeon and your tank ?

[lilac stag]

pins

[graceful crown]

DS is better than Trick for every scenario but 2 target cleave

which is never

so

yeah

hee hee

[pulsar mauve]

Well tuning is bad but at least we get to change gameplay every few weeks

That's something \o/

[graceful crown]

yeah, you're right

playing assassin till then will be a nice change of pace

[keen dome]

this is the kind of positive thinking I like!

It's only up from here.

Or slightly to the left or right

[pulsar mauve]

I mean since tww we played mostly trickster. Now we play mostly DS for 2 weeks. Then when patch 11.0.5 is out we are going to play goremaw for sure

What a time to play sub guys !!

[graceful crown]

are we actually

i dont even remember what that ability does

since legion

LOL

idk why it's even back

[pulsar mauve]

Idk man, it's just meme talent at this point ?

[vale pine]

XD

[mental comet]

Lol flurry is bugged ???

[alpine wraith]

yea instead of 50 it is 40

[graceful crown]

apparently it has been bugged for a while now

[mental comet]

That’s insane man

[vale pine]

11.0.5 checklist
☑️ lose the 2 minute damage niche
☑️ lose a lot of defensives
☑️ lose dynamic cooldown alignment
☑️ worse talent diversity
but:
☑️ keeps the 1 min 30 damage niche

[alpine wraith]

likely the intern in india that was going to do the change resigned that week

[graceful crown]

has any other hero talent bugged out half as much as trickster sub?

[alpine wraith]

and no one bothered to update it

[hazy breach]

What

[lilac stag]

Gain more things not working with shadow dmg

[keen dome]

I'm still on the typo angle

[pulsar mauve]

What defensive are we losing ?

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker has significantly more

[vale pine]

we play 1 vanish charge

and soothing darkness does not work on shadow dance anymore

but got buffed to compensate

we used dance every ~25 secs

[frosty bridge]

and we dont pick shield from vanish

[mental comet]

You also lose the cdr on defensives too cuz no dust

[vale pine]

so we got 4+ triggers per vanish

[pulsar mauve]

Ow ye. We'll be below Aug in 11.0.5, won't we ?

[vale pine]

• one additional vanish

[frosty bridge]

so vanish will become useless

just to dodge mechanics

[pulsar mauve]

Just when you think sub can only improve, you have Fuu that puts you back in the dirt

[bronze hatch]

You never use vanish to dodge mechanics now

[pulsar mauve]

Noiice

[alpine wraith]

you will use vanish on the opener anyway

otherwise you have to stab 2 or 3 times

[hazy breach]

Damage is probably going to be fine either way

[bronze hatch]

You only use it when u need a bunch of attack cds or a specific attack cd back

[hazy breach]

Supercharger is really really good

[vale pine]

so before the patch:

• 5 triggers of 15% HP = 75% hp return
  is now
• 1 trigger with 30% Hp = 30% hp return

[alpine wraith]

and mostly overheal

[tidal salmon]

finally

[pulsar mauve]

To the moon

[tidal salmon]

finally i can do frost dk numbers

[alpine wraith]

so now soothing is fighting with DARK HEART

and non working slice talent

but wait there is a secret

[frosty bridge]

they still didnt fix it?

[alpine wraith]

if you dont vanish the slice talent does not bug

[pulsar mauve]

What other things could go wrong ? Flagellation buff moved from mastery to haste maybe ?

[alpine wraith]

so maybe that is the strat for healing

just dont vanish

[tidal salmon]

sounded like a reroll to assa instantly

fuck sl flag

[vale pine]

don't give them ideas

[frosty bridge]

flag will give random stat from now on

[pulsar mauve]

They don't read this discord anyway do they ?

[frosty bridge]

[vale pine]

sometimes

[haughty mural]

based

[barren plume]

Lol wait are we getting worse with the big patch comin?

[vale pine]

so you can be lucky

[tidal salmon]

ds aoe goes wild btw, but dmg profile seems soooooo shit

[vale pine]

depends

number wise potentially even or slightly better

[hazy breach]

Why would it be

[tidal salmon]

i tried a nw and we had to fight big hp boiz forever

since the party was me ret and aug also 😄

[pulsar mauve]

The only thing where we'll be better is that the amount of sub logs on WL will go closer to 1

And 1 is gold

[hazy breach]

DS does significantly more prio damage than trickster, like 10% more

[vale pine]

dust was also giving more cloak/evasion

just saying

[barren plume]

We fucked

[spark tusk]

It's wild that DS has taken over I've gotta try it

[vale pine]

we are not fucked

some things get better others worse

[tidal salmon]

so you say my dumass just spammed bp too much on the first key lol

[vale pine]

it is just not a clear win

[hazy breach]

Well if you dont use darkest night obviously not

[vale pine]

like for other specs/classes

[tidal salmon]

i did use them, almost all of them on dance also without fuck ups

idk maybe the issue was ret + ds sub

[spark tusk]

I'm assuming for the dungeon build in pins we still hold flag for blades yeah?

[hazy breach]

Idk DS does good prio damage

[tidal salmon]

i felt like if i was trickster big mobs would have way less hp when the pack is dead

[frosty bridge]

yeah flag always with blades flag alone is bad

[vale pine]

yes

[hazy breach]

And im saying thats not the case

DS does more

To the big guy

not less

[steel horizon]

but thats only if you choose to consume darkest night right? if you ignore it, are you gonna do more overall?

[hazy breach]

No

Darkest night is better in all cases

[steel horizon]

ah ok

[frosty bridge]

imagine dn will work with bp as well

so we can choose how to use it

[tidal salmon]

if it would beat trickster prio, it would be like %20-25 higher overall compared to trickster due to the aoe blast

i didnt felt %20-25 stronger, maybe 2-2.5 lol

[near rivet]

what % of dmg does bp do to 1 target compared to evi? its like 55% of evis dmg now?

[tidal salmon]

shouldnt talk based on a single nw run tho, gotta try it more

[bleak wind]

you mean with using BP with evis on darkest night or just sending evis on main target

[rigid pasture]

is there any fight i should play trickster today on todays mythic reclear? XD

[hazy breach]

BP+darkest night

Just regular aoe

[bleak wind]

interesting

[tidal salmon]

i apologise all laws btw, trickster gameplay was better than this shi

[haughty mural]

probably your ret just only used dstorm instead of doing prio dmg

[hazy breach]

Obviously if you do eviscerates you do slightly more prio

[haughty mural]

and its not about DS

[hazy breach]

But you do no aoe

[graceful crown]

way better and more interesting

[bleak wind]

its certainly not intuitive as to why that is, since trickster would just spam evis

[hazy breach]

Hunt them down, mark, darkest night

[graceful crown]

not unless you got a coup which you had to link with fazed target + dance

[tidal salmon]

after i do a key with war monk sham and aug i'll change my mind again pretty sure 😄

[graceful crown]

and you changed your gameplay according to number of shit, so much more to track

[steel horizon]

thats what im curious about. at what pack size does it become better to just ignore darkest night and continue BP spam for more overall dam?

[hazy breach]

None

[steel horizon]

or does it never

[rigid pasture]

you will but keep in mind that would propably have like 400k more overall as assa at the very least

sub is so ass in keys

[graceful crown]

none you lose your hero talent if you dont use that ugly, clanky evisc mid BP spam

[steel horizon]

true. it just feels so damn awkward lol

[graceful crown]

it's hideous

[steel horizon]

especially after getting used to trickster in keys

[raw ivy]

when you start a pack as a DS DB rogue do you jump on the big guy of the pack rupture him, switch target tu spread to 4 targets or you stay on big guys and spread rupture to just 3 target?

[graceful crown]

im practicing the rotations on both sin and sub rn with DS, i reach up to 2.3 mil on sub and up to 3 mil on assassin

with sub i fall down to 2 mil

with sin i stick to 2.7 mil

so fun

[rigid pasture]

you just cant play sub on 11+ is just too ass

your burst window is not enough

i mean you can in certain keys or comps but thats it

[quartz prism]

Good thing im a +7 andy atm

[bleak wind]

ye I guess, but trickster also has things to boost its damage like flawless form on paper looks so much better for that also unseen blade itself would be somewhat similar to hunt them down (or mark)

[rigid pasture]

i can see people swapping to sub for necrotic third boss or mists

[ornate current]

do we BP on 2 targets as DS now ?

[graceful crown]

in a way i'd be a lot less salty if we had fatebound as sub as an option

[hazy breach]

Yes

[vestal escarp]

With follow untalended?

Big gamble

[rigid pasture]

I mean sub has been meta for the past years when it comes to keys I guess its about time that changes, even though sub is the sole thing that makes me play the game

Assassination is so fucking boring

[ornate current]

thx, i hate it

[hazy breach]

Why

People complain about sub aoe being bad, then we get a massive aoe buff and yet were still complaining

Smh my head

[lethal thorn]

Im a otp sub player at this point

[vestal escarp]

I guess to make out some dmg out of DS you would have to build some more crit

[frosty bridge]

wasnt it outlaw?

[ornate current]

ngl i liked nimble more than BP spam

[hazy breach]

Apparently using our aoe spender in aoe is the worst thing

[vestal escarp]

Fw + activating momentum

[ornate current]

but i also dont like that every rogue is just bladeflury now

so

[hazy breach]

Its literally not BP spam though

[rigid pasture]

im not rly saying subs aoe is bad im just saying the spec sucks for keys

even though still the aoe is not the best lol

[lethal thorn]

Issue is that they buffed sin and outlaw making any sub buff irrevelent

[pastel rampart]

i hate tornado it is very cringe to use
i also not like the mouseover rupture it very annoying :(

i do not care if we off meta i just like the spec

[hazy breach]

Then dont mouseover

And dont use tornado

[pastel rampart]

but dmg

[haughty mural]

lmao

[lethal thorn]

Youre there to atrophic not dmg

[rigid pasture]

that sounded depressing af but its true

[pastel rampart]

im there to sectech and go GUHHHH in voice when it hits

[hazy breach]

Not in keys though

[edgy zenith]

i need a build for broodtwister prog, help

[pastel rampart]

and then complain that pull lives too long

if my dmg isnt highest

o7

[vestal escarp]

Also about follow > momentum i'd have to guess the crit amp works with shadowed finishers unlike follow, would be hard to explain why momentum is stronger otherwise

[hazy breach]

In most cases numbing is going to be more worthwhile in keys

[rigid pasture]

im parsing pink on sikran mythic and like #8 on dps, with blue and green parses above me

shits depressing

[pastel rampart]

they should bring back dust

[lethal thorn]

Was the same in bfa when spec is just the otp left

[rigid pasture]

lol yeah pretty much,especially from today and on any meta slves will be playing assa propably

[bleak wind]

@hazy breach is the better prio with the aoe build? and how does it compare to just playing dust full ST?

[lethal thorn]

Just look number of parse xd

[hazy breach]

Ye

Dust deathstalker is not a thing in aoe

[bleak wind]

how is boss damage with that build though

[hazy breach]

#subtlety message

Like 4% worse than trickster dust

DB is almost as good as dust for deathstalker on ST anyway, its like 1.5-2% behind with the best ST setups

[gilded ferry]

so, the game plan in keys is to proc the DS, use the 3 finishers with bp and then evis darkest night to reproc the 3 stacks?

[bleak wind]

how do you even play without dust, do you ever send double dance on ST?

[hazy breach]

Ye during blades

And a natty symbols without dance later on

Unless you have adds to cleave of

Probably worth playing deathstalker even before this bp buff tbh but we just never checked that nimble actually was 50%, we just assumed blizzard saying it was increased to 50% meant that it was 50%

[vestal escarp]

? Sorry to bother

[hazy breach]

Yes but also shuriken crits apply more fw

[vestal escarp]

And this is mainly thanks to silent storm

[hazy breach]

What

[steel horizon]

Do we bother using Shadow strike in aoe now? Or just ss bp ss sectec

In dancee i mean

[vestal escarp]

Storm critting

We're going around with embarrassingly low amount of crit

[hazy breach]

Thats why silent storm is good ye

[pastel rampart]

do we prefer carrot or broccoli

[barren plume]

We prefer to not be getting fucked by blizzard

[vestal escarp]

Broccoli

[small crown]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vestal escarp]

Goota say tho aoe DS is quite smooth

You're spamming marks away with bp even when momentarily forced to swap target

[keen dome]

Broccoli if it's roasted with garlic and lemon, carrot if it's with a bit of salt and honey

[vestal escarp]

And you can freely choose to dn another dude at any time

Cause sub is less constrained by prio target uptime stuff like kb ramp, spatter and such

Obvious problem is drastic prio dmg break

[haughty mural]

oh marks pop when you target away ?

[worldly wasp]

Anybody else do a lot better on aoe with trickster than DS?

i feel like its so much better in keys for me

[vestal escarp]

Yea a 5+ finisher on market target pops one

So bp pops target always

[haughty mural]

yea ofc makes sense
tbh last time i did spec into ds as sub was in beta

using ds as assa all the time but thats a tad dif obviously

[vestal escarp]

Yeah your main spender is enve so you notice it less

Too bad: sub in keys

[maiden agate]

I do more damage with DS in AOE now, feels less satisfying to play though

[haughty mural]

yes ofc

man how the turn tables

[steel heart]

Seems like DF sub now 😛

[haughty mural]

i'd argue trickster is more like that

[steel heart]

I mean, not cleaving but using BP instead, optimize a bit better Macabre stacks, using tornado again etc.

[haughty mural]

i thought you were referring to 2 button spam

[strange chasm]

Still sub probably doesn't keep up to sin. I'm doing almost 2 mill overalls on sin end of dungeon

[vale pine]

think trickster is just simpler

whats good

[willow fulcrum]

wait so i have to play DS now

in keys

black powder

shuriken tornado

[gaunt tiger]

i mean you dont have to

[willow fulcrum]

how much better is it

[onyx hare]

Still worse than sin

[willow fulcrum]

ye

obv

[vale pine]

you don't need to play x or y

both are options

[willow fulcrum]

yea but if DS is considerably better my brain makes me have to play it

[gaunt tiger]

i simmed ~6% higher on dslice, but mileage will vary

[haughty mural]

@vale pine you have follow the blood in your suggested talents on wowhead

[vale pine]

oh, let me fix that

thanks

[haughty mural]

[willow fulcrum]

it feels weird pressing double dance in cds and not having 2 symbols of death rolling

i've played nothing but shadowdust lmao

[trim ridge]

better start getting used to it

since its going away

lmao

[weary kite]

we get two symbols charges with death perception if we run it

[trim ridge]

btw is assa now better than sub in ST after the buffs?

or are we still on top

[alpine wraith]

yes assa is better

[fierce cedar]

lol

we aint having anything now

[near rivet]

assa doesnt require knowledge of 37424 bugs and workarounds for them to stay competetive

[willow fulcrum]

i feel like i press barely any ST comopared to trickster

[vestal escarp]

They still have a bunch of those

Rog is rog

[trim ridge]

💀

[vale pine]

this weeks buffs give you no real reason anymore to play sub

unless you like the spec

which is still a very good reason to play it

[trim ridge]

i refuse to drop sub

i'll die on this hill

[void hound]

wonder how silken court shapes up

sub vs sin

[vale pine]

i wonder too

i guess silken might be a exception

[alpine wraith]

you wont see any public logs

[lilac stag]

Gonna go assa is my guess.

[alpine wraith]

maybe next week

[vestal escarp]

||if usage drops we might get awareness||

[vale pine]

||You act like we are not already the least played in Raid and Mythic+||

[steel horizon]

11.05 will save us guys dont worry

[vale pine]

11.0.5 could be a small numerical buff

[void hound]

surely copium

[trim ridge]

11..5 doesnt solve de core issues of the spec design

buffin some numbers wont do shit

[grave delta]

what does the aoe dance window look like in the pinned m+ build do u evis with darkest night still

[void hound]

i take buffed numbers for a start

[trim ridge]

11.0.5 was a good moment to get the rework tbh

[lilac stag]

||They tossed out a random buff and hoped a TC would figure out find amazing tech out of it in sims. 💀||

[trim ridge]

we'll have to wait for 11.1 kek

[vestal escarp]

||sabotaging might or might not be a solution||

[vale pine]

BP does not seem like a random buff

[trim ridge]

this is copium as fuck

[void hound]

BP was underwhelming for a long time now

i think the buff is good

just sad to see no ST buffs

or bug fixes

[lilac stag]

Zero thought behind it except hey they’re not pressing it.

[trim ridge]

i mean no one liked bp when it was meta

or am i wrong?

[vestal escarp]

Yeah bp buff was aimed, the point is that the priority of it was weird

[void hound]

a lot of people liked the simple BP rotation of df season 1 and 2

(not me)

[trim ridge]

bp rotation is mindnumbing

[lilac stag]

You’re gonna spam stem + finisher unless they change more

[keen dome]

I'd rather have bug fixing first than random tuning, though.

[trim ridge]

for sure

[void hound]

why not both.jpg

[keen dome]

Valid and true

[vestal escarp]

The tuning was not random

[trim ridge]

at this point the bug is on the tooltip instead of the skills lmao

[keen dome]

I'm still hopeful but also sad.

[vale pine]

the BP buff makes sense

its just that the spec has a lot of open wounds

[willow fulcrum]

man

i still did good damage

[keen dome]

Sure, that's fair. I'm sure there's a very good reason for it but from my perspective, with the volume of bugs and other critical issues it just feels and looks random.

[willow fulcrum]

but it feels like im doing fuck all

[void hound]

yeah the spec is perma ruptured you could say

[willow fulcrum]

like double dance 1 symbols cds

like half the ST i press on trickster

feels like im doing 0

[vale pine]

compare a dungeon as sub vs. a dungeon as sin

[trim ridge]

stop

lmao

[lilac stag]

It’s just a deeper dagger in the wounds.

[vestal escarp]

Yes as i said the bp buff priority was misplaced

[lilac stag]

I’ll see myself out.

[willow fulcrum]

@vale pine good damage, in terms of what i was doing as trickster

[keen dome]

I could def see it as part of a bigger push and it's just been put it in now because it could be put in now.

[willow fulcrum]

im the same, about 2m on sin, 1.5 on sub

[trim ridge]

i can point u to the exit

[vale pine]

we just need some bugfixes

for numerical improvements

[trim ridge]

and then a whole ass rework

LMAO

[willow fulcrum]

this was my first key as DB DS

never played it b4 this in a key

[vestal escarp]

The biggest push is ptr and there's very little problems solving there

[willow fulcrum]

my mark is probably shit

[trim ridge]

cursed

[lilac stag]

It was needed in 10.2

[willow fulcrum]

i wasnt even trackign it

[keen dome]

Yeee.

[void hound]

whats the overall

and what key

[willow fulcrum]

1.46m , +9 NW

[trim ridge]

that isnt bad?

[willow fulcrum]

i do 1.9m the same key as sin

but yea

i was doing abt the same on trickster

[trim ridge]

oh...

[willow fulcrum]

maybe trickster was like

[keen dome]

Hey, it's better

[willow fulcrum]

1.7

in a good run

bc shit loads of ST in big packs

[keen dome]

oh.

[willow fulcrum]

but i was finding here like

[vale pine]

a rework would be reasonable if they want to improve the player experience

[vestal escarp]

10.2 needed the same jesus sub needs now, if they pushed a 35% on s3 df rog would have still been behind outlul and and sin in keys

[vale pine]

but looking at the last year of changes

[willow fulcrum]

i barely ever had shuriken nado on big packs

[vestal escarp]

Gap was BIG

[willow fulcrum]

and judging it to old sub

[vale pine]

i am not sure there is such a big value set on that

[void hound]

10.2 sub was kino+

just need to iterate

[vale pine]

10.2 was overtuned

[trim ridge]

yea i understand that, why would u invest resources on reworking a spec no one plays

[vale pine]

we ended up played because we didn't get nerfed

[void hound]

yes but also the gameplay was good

[kindred thunder]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[willow fulcrum]

idk, i just feel like im doing nothing compared to trickster but trickster is just more uptime bc of shadowdust

[vestal escarp]

Not even that much, just guys like smold and tindral liked us

[willow fulcrum]

u have cds more often so it feels better

lol

[vestal escarp]

Same situation fury warr is facing

[willow fulcrum]

2m shadowblades feels cringe

[trim ridge]

so used to brew build on m+ i dont feel the pain

[willow fulcrum]

lmao

yea

it feels like shit compared to trickster

it feels like im never in cds

every 2nd pack on trickster u have blades and ur in dance for the entire pack

[trim ridge]

dust withdrawal is real LMAO

[willow fulcrum]

on brew im like

bro

my symbols 15s

then nothing

trickster 30s symbols

i look at my weakauras and feel like im doing something wrong

bc i have no symbols

[void hound]

ok but what if they just made dance big

like really big

bigly dances you could say

[willow fulcrum]

like seeing my weakauras with dance up and no symbols in cds

feels wrong

[vestal escarp]

Well turns out having dmg more often is good for keys color me surprised

[trim ridge]

No more damage multipliers please

on top of damage multipliers on top of damage multipliers

fix the core

[void hound]

multiply the core

[trim ridge]

AAAAAAAA

[keen dome]

But we're the Sub spec, not the Multi spec.

[barren plume]

Delete the rogues!

[lilac stag]

And they nearly all ignore shadow dmg amps

[void hound]

true and real

[trim ridge]

yea somme of them dont even work properly

GUYS I KNOW

LETS MAKE ANOTHER CD THAT DOESNT ALIGN WITH THE OTHERS

thats what we need

[vestal escarp]

Gwb

[lilac stag]

Secrtevh should be a 69 second cd. Nice.

[keen dome]

47.5 second cooldown

Just add a randomized cooldown

Sometimes it's 1s and sometimes it's a week

[trim ridge]

that would be

So funny

just make it so when u change to sub a big message pops up from blizzard telling u to swap specs

[keen dome]

"Alright guys my big damage went on CD for a week, sorry"

[gilded ferry]

tested the DS build

[uneven scarab]

Anytime you press secret tech it specs you into assa

Real gaming

[gilded ferry]

doesnt feel as bad as it would look like

[uneven scarab]

I did pretty bad compared to what i normally play

Like 200k-300k less but im just so used to trickster dust

[gilded ferry]

@alpine wraith you should stop with the nonsense and try it out also

[trim ridge]

wasnt the trickster brew performing better than dust?

[uneven scarab]

No idea but dust feels way better

i thought dust won out depending on the key

[trim ridge]

that might be true

[restive venture]

Dust does feel better. Why don’t you run dust trickster?

[trim ridge]

never bothered running it for keys

[uneven scarab]

It really is just the double symbols in burst

feels way better

[willow fulcrum]

thats what im saying

[uneven scarab]

yeah man

[willow fulcrum]

only having 1 symbols in blades

feels fucking bad

[uneven scarab]

it feels so much better

[willow fulcrum]

it feels like im playing wrong

[uneven scarab]

Yeah it does

[willow fulcrum]

and i guess, note the obvious

u dont have cds up for the packs you would hvae as trickster

so that also makes it feel bad bc i've played nothing but dust

[restive venture]

The new talents in 20th anniversary patch give more charges of SoD

Right?

[willow fulcrum]

yea

[uneven scarab]

i think the anniversary will make it feel better since we will be hard 1 min 30 but man

[willow fulcrum]

comparably i did similar damage tho

didnt feel that way

its gonna be like old sub

need big pack so black powder go brr

[uneven scarab]

Also having to consume dn when you wanna be spamming bp

Kinda wack

[restive venture]

So are these changes aimed at making a better flowing spec?

[uneven scarab]

Its aimed at simplifying it

[restive venture]

With 1min 30 and no need for dust anymore?

[uneven scarab]

Because people freak out when they read dust

even tho it wasnt really complicated if you understood

The use case for it

[trim ridge]

some1 said dust??

[willow fulcrum]

nah dust is easy af

honestly

[restive venture]

Its intimidating when you’re learning

[young path]

I was rather impressed with trickster dust build last night, did the typical trickster opener for first dance, then rolled into second dance with tornado and giga stacks of flawless

Out did a fdk in 11 SV

[mental comet]

dust bad for noob

[uneven scarab]

like i said, understanding the use case makes it simple af

we turn our spec into 1 min 30 instead of 2 min

Pressing bp as trickster doesnt feel that bad either when you pull giga

actually felt kinda good

[young path]

Cannot overstate how much I want that change

[young path]

💯

[uneven scarab]

yeah 2 min dont really work for us

we are just worse assa rogue at 2 mins

[young path]

You can ramp some pretty crazy numbers

[restive venture]

2min feels really bad when your other main cd is 1min 30

[uneven scarab]

Cool thing about dust is you can force burst

[limpid lynx]

do we have any news and numbers regarding what is better to play now ? trickster or stalker after the buff to bp

[sly shore]

[lilac stag]

assa

[trim ridge]

i love these images