assassination

[fleet anchor]

Or do lots of damage and be nearly unkillable and have required raid utility like Warlocks? 😄

[whole mason]

wonderful, but I dont want to see a patch stating rogue is removed...

[sharp falcon]

Rogue DPS bar 2x next highest: "That's just their raid identity in DoT comps, ok"

[gloomy knoll]

I’m ok with that but just st Dps

My class identity is stabbing the boss

[bleak sky]

This is when you pull a FF14 and ban details/skada/recount

[sharp falcon]

this is one of the most grass-is-greener things I've read in a while

[faint harness]

only warlocks are allowed to be warlocks

[bleak sky]

No one knows that you're doing 3x damage if you have no dps meters

[gloomy knoll]

Trueeee

[faint harness]

wait until they lose seed and soulshape

[fleet anchor]

More seriously, not really against "tradeoffs" but they get into somewhat dangerous territory in a raid environment because it assumes that all the classes/specs are balanced around the same concepts. Which they often aren't just as a matter of complexity.

[oak sky]

rogues favorite pastime is complaining about warlock

[gloomy knoll]

They are literally always good and I have data to back that up

[faint harness]

i dont get why there are so many complaints about warlock either, not like they steal slots from us

[fleet anchor]

The same issue has always come up with "niche" specs like in the past "ST niche" for Feral where realistically they never had enough of an advantage vs. other specs that had tons of AoE to actually make any sense.

[whole mason]

In addition, warlocks come with candy!

and gates.

[fleet anchor]

One designer may have an idea for some interesting trade-off idea

[gloomy knoll]

Fun fact rogue is also like top 4 classes to be above average a majority of the time

[fleet anchor]

And another designer will just make a well-rounded spec

[gloomy knoll]

Pure Dps class go brrr

[fleet anchor]

And that just ends up with the trade-offs being flat downsides

[bleak sky]

Tbh that should be the case with all pure dps specs

[gloomy knoll]

It mostly is lol

It’s like locks mages rogues and some1 else

[sharp falcon]

hunter

[bleak sky]

If you can only bring damage and you're not top/near the top, why even live

[gloomy knoll]

Sounds right

[velvet ridge]

the only classes with 3 dps specs.....

1 of the spec HAS to be good

[bleak sky]

Ya

[gloomy knoll]

U ok bro

[faint harness]

poor hunters man

no raid utility and just constantly on the floor

[bleak sky]

No I couldn't sleep and have an interview later today

[sharp falcon]

they had a pretty good expansion, idk

[gloomy knoll]

That’s what they get for mobility

[fleet anchor]

I mean, I don't really care since as Push mentioned they don't directly compete with Rogues for spots but it's not really that grass-is-greener. Warlocks have had the highest average raid performance of any class for like the last 5 xpacs, are super tanky, and have gate which is designed around. They have very few obvious weaknesses. It's a well-designed class, nothing wrong with that. But they easily outpace more one-dimensional classes regularly.

[gloomy knoll]

Yea they did

[oak sky]

bro hunters went mm mm sv

[faint harness]

i mean we still had to bench hunters simply because they couldnt live certain encounters and you have demo locks that just do more dmg and cant die

[oak sky]

crazy

[gloomy knoll]

Big oofs

[bleak sky]

And that's good

Real good

[cinder scaffold]

Can you sort out the guy who made the SV tree please. Tell him to spec into it and try play it before making the tree 😜

[gloomy knoll]

They literally sat gingi and before that had beacon on his ass cuz squishy

[oak sky]

poor gingi man

[faint harness]

player issue

[gloomy knoll]

Lmaooo

[bleak sky]

Yailor was pretty crazy early on

[fleet anchor]

And yes, data does exist for this. Warlock has had one spec with above average performance in raid literally 95% (not made up number) of the time since the start of Warlords of Draenor. 😛

The next highest class is 70%

[velvet ridge]

when was it not

[gloomy knoll]

Yea they were taunting people in my guild with that data a few days ago

[faint harness]

EN

[fleet anchor]

Briefly last tier

[gloomy knoll]

Everyone picks on the locks lol

[fleet anchor]

lol

[faint harness]

and they still complain about EN

remember that one time 5 years ago when we werent instantly brought to a raid taht was cleared in 16 hours by ruskis

[sharp falcon]

Answer: Buff all specs to have representation equal to historic Warlock

[faint harness]

give rogue gateway through grappling hooks

[gloomy knoll]

Give them the sub rogue treatment

[velvet ridge]

Ziplines

[faint harness]

zipline gameplay

[sharp falcon]

Outlaw Rogue can summon a boat, ppl ride the boat to where they need to go

[whole mason]

grappling hooks one group of players!

[gloomy knoll]

Orbital nuke them for an entire xpac to teach humility and the fear of god

[sharp falcon]

by 'boat' i mean 'pirate ship'

[faint harness]

oofc

cannonball barrage

can be used by members in the boat

[gloomy knoll]

I loved that ability in legion

It was so bad but it looked so cool lol

[velvet ridge]

sub rogue makes a shadow gate where they were when the shadow step, members can go through the shadow gate with them

[faint harness]

broken

[gloomy knoll]

So like the portal game

That’d be funny

[velvet ridge]

maybe we can hand out some crimson vials that restore hp to members

[bleak sky]

But back to reality: rogue good

[faint harness]

imagine if rogue had these like power up potions

that we could hand out

[gloomy knoll]

Oh shit yea

Dps pots

[faint harness]

[gloomy knoll]

But like not on the Cd with regular ones

[fleet anchor]

Honestly I'm all for the mass Shadowstep

[faint harness]

ye

[bleak sky]

Handing out spiked drinks with a random effect

[faint harness]

just extra pots

[faint harness]

beam me up scotty

[fleet anchor]

That's the real Smoke Bomb. Just move a group of people across somewhere. Neat.

[velvet ridge]

assassination has a vial/apothecary spec line in there tree, our vials debuff targets physical and magical resistance

[gloomy knoll]

Extra pot that your rogue makes from poison and shot he found in the sewer

[bleak sky]

5% chance to be disconnected from wow; 95% chance to get mainstat proc

[fleet anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/smokebomb-im-out-ready-to-fight-gif-15479694

[faint harness]

this is what black powder felt like early SL

[fleet anchor]

lol

[gloomy knoll]

Also it’s completely fucking rng

And the pot has a 1% chance of no Dps and just making your character smell bad

[velvet ridge]

smoke bomb works like darkness in pve

[faint harness]

i think the idea of a shroud "roar" is quite cool

actually

[bleak sky]

It sounds great in m+

[velvet ridge]

everyone stealths, boss resets

[bleak sky]

Makeshift wo drifter

[vestal wren]

i like the idea too

[steel ridge]

like a wormhole after stepping?

[vestal wren]

we can make mass teleport for sub only

so we have 3 specs with unique raid benefits

[oak sky]

bruh i would rather have mass step than raid DR

[steel ridge]

that would be crazy

not a big fan of the shroud movespeed thingy... theres already enough group speed ups

[copper hazel]

the smoke bomb party teleport is cool idea. Throw first smoke bomb at location you want everyone to go to, stack the 5 man group on the rogue, rogue throws down second smoke bomb at the parties feet and BAM all teleported to first smoke bomb location

[vestal wren]

a aoe teleport instead of shrould would also open up unique gameplay for keys

[limber lion]

I can already see it; you mass-step and the tank with Neural Silencer on just gets left behind and dies

[copper hazel]

loooool

[vestal wren]

well

[copper hazel]

his loss

[marble hemlock]

Mass step everybody to their death at .3% boss HP

[vestal wren]

https://tenor.com/view/leave-me-alone-to-die-lilo-gif-15443905

^ the one who didn't get in

[marble hemlock]

"Woops miss click"

[limber lion]

Then you tell everyone to take Neural Silencers off, then you have people trolling people with swapblasters

[copper hazel]

the trolling of my guild melee i would do with that, holy shit

[vestal wren]

neural silencer already can be painful with tott

[copper hazel]

pugs with it, so annoying

[simple gyro]

Or prot pally during divine steed.

[viscid spear]

"Cannot be cast on a mounted unit"

[jade abyss]

I hate this

[viscid spear]

I did a Streets last week where the tank was still mounted when the run started and the first trio activated, and I hit my Tricks and opened on all three, just to get punched into the ground because I was too busy getting ready to open

[strange python]

oh god yes i hate when tanks literally stay mounted forever

I just quit trying eventually

[balmy condor]

Our Podcast Tricks of the Trade is finally getting it's long awaited fifth episode! We'll be live right here at:

<t:1657990800:F>

Tell a friend and I hope to see you all back in <t:1657990800:R>!

https://discord.com/events/124169701881282560/996296122723213363

[balmy condor]

Now we pray that people read pins

And not just mute the announcement

[viscid spear]

Sucks, gotta do the hard assignment in my job tomorrow, can't listen to the podcast

Reception deadzone

[balmy condor]

Painge

[viscid spear]

So have it up for replay asap

[balmy condor]

That’s entirely up to how much twitch wants to suck ass and how quickly @stuck knoll and @gusty mirage can have it up in places

[subtle tundra]

Sucks to suck tennocon will be going on

[balmy condor]

Last podcast the twitch thing was a disaster

And wouldn’t let me download vods

So I had to wait for it to clear

And then manually splice sections together

Was awful

[whole mason]

If I have time, I'll try to do translation to Chinese community.

[balmy condor]

You should get together with @true condor

He’s re-streaming it to the Chinese community

[whole mason]

Yes. I know that.

[balmy condor]

Ah I see

I’m not familiar with who knows who

Sorry

[whole mason]

Or maybe we do record and translate the video. 1am not really a good time for east time zone.

[whole mason]

no need to apologise.

all good.

[balmy condor]

The vod will be up, should be able to download it

I’ll get a link for you guys

[whole mason]

Great

[velvet ridge]

How do I see the past podcasts

Listen to

Watch

[balmy condor]

Spotify and YouTube links are in #podcast-chat pins

[stuck knoll]

I'll try getting it up asap

Because I'm going away for a week next Thursday

[strange python]

If we play venthyr and MfD - we just hold MfD for the next flag, or we send it?

[spice spire]

MFD on opener > in between > MFD with flag > in between > rinse and repeat

[strange python]

ok got it - i'm gonna read the guide that whispyr wrote a little better too

[spice spire]

[strange python]

Alright...I guess I'll try venthyr tonight on Sausage...hope i dont regret trying it.

I just look over the logs and the differences are astonishingly high for people that play venthyr.

I can be in top 5 dps in the raid as necro (which is arguably easier)...so i'd hate to go in as venthyr and just suck or keep messing it up.

See...but this is where i get messed up...

If Dreamweaver is only like 400 dps less than a perfectly played nadjia - and it's also easier...why not just play dreamweaver.

[spice spire]

Dreamweaver assumes 100% field uptime

[strange python]

Or heck niya if you're worried about standing in the circle

yeah what about niya - maybe that's just super easy

[spice spire]

Which isn’t always possible

How much of a loss do you take with niya though?

[strange python]

that's just from whispyr's guide so

not my wim

*sim

It stands to reason playing Niya is like super easy compared to all the snapshotting and stuff from venthyr.

[bleak sky]

can you link your sim?

[strange python]

oh yeah lemme go find one i did this morning

i think i have one with venthyr and nf

[bleak sky]

[strange python]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sXKyWKgVUiJ9tM3HUn3goC

14,930 as venth - and then dreamweaver is 14,745 (assuming niya is just a bit lower than dreamweaver)

[spice spire]

Talents off

[strange python]

MfD was 18 dps higher btw than DS

See, that's the other part of the equation - i'm not sure comfortable with DS and using CT either lol...that's half the reason I'm thinking of just going Niya

[royal lantern]

yeha but muh additional keybinds????

[spice spire]

You’re also missing CT yeah

If you’re worried about it, my honest advice is to dummy practice for a bit

To get comfortable with the keybinds

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vpeQdhY7y3PBLRmeK9Hff9

[strange python]

yeah i'd have to move my warlock portal thing to get mfd back on my bars

[bleak sky]

sim running might take a while

[strange python]

oh wow yeah 15,161 hrmm

[spice spire]

I just did a quick couple of changes

[bleak sky]

makeitquake fastest simmer on NA

[strange python]

lol

[bleak sky]

mf got that mimiron raidbots

red = fast

[spice spire]

I’m sure minalba has a lot more in his

[bleak sky]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1nR31hkPWjPazuCvZRZNPq

[spice spire]

(I don’t even have swiftsim)

[strange python]

I probably have a 272 IQD

[bleak sky]

so goes even higher

[strange python]

didn't realize it was that good

[bleak sky]

iqd strong

[strange python]

wow

[spice spire]

IQD is juiced

[royal lantern]

i mean, seriously now, cant you just put that thing somewhere at a 4th sidebar above your bags and click it

[spice spire]

Wait that’s cursed

[royal lantern]

not like as if you use warlock gates 20000x druing a fight

[spice spire]

IQD + SGT 💀

[strange python]

I rarely use the lock gate thing anyway haha

only really loved it on m pain

[bleak sky]

hey it could be iqd phial

iqd stronk

[spice spire]

Yeah IQD + phial is a 14 loss

[strange python]

worth it to me to not have to have two on use

[spice spire]

Just SGT > phial seems cursed

[bleak sky]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pmDviMrqjQgLeK1tcaM5xu

but yeah 272 IQD kinda nice if you can upgrade it

and you can keep phial

because they're about the same damage

[strange python]

yeah i probably have it at 272 already - and i think i have like 9k valor anyway

well thanks guys

i'm gonna try this out a bit today before raid

[spice spire]

No problem papi

[bleak sky]

so while nf isn't downright trolling, it's a good ~750 dps behind venth theo

I just realized I didn't sim nadja with dauntless duelist

💀

I forgor

[spice spire]

💀

[bleak sky]

ran another, ~700 dps from nadja

[spice spire]

I was like “damn theo is really ahead wtf”

[strange python]

thanks

[bleak sky]

[dark garnet]

So if issue with kingsbane is dtb being too strong with it, why not make those 2 a choice? Would also make sense being in the poison path

[royal lantern]

why would kingsbane be to strong?

it doesnt even exsist

[dark garnet]

Been a lot of discussion here with the dev about adding it, but this issue is one of the biggest reasons not to

[royal lantern]

i mean, its wow

[dark garnet]

Since you would always pick them together

[royal lantern]

its all just a question of "how will you adjust the numbers"

if you make the numbers that its more or less supposed to be played togheter, why would it be to strong

[subtle tundra]

my opinion that there are too many buttons already still stands

[royal lantern]

what

[dark garnet]

You would end up either picking both or none of them, which isnt what talent trees are for

[subtle tundra]

(on the df tree)

[bleak sky]

given that we have very few buttons, i think it's fine no?

[subtle tundra]

not when you add 5 more

like 2 is fine

[bleak sky]

+5 = we are current outlaw

[royal lantern]

i mean, the reality is gonna be that everyone is gonna play the mathematical best tree on the 2nd day of DF going life anyway lol

dude, assassination is not big on buttons

[bleak sky]

but you're really just adding exsang/carnage/dance/MAYBE kingsbane, MAYBE gouge (?)

[royal lantern]

mut, both bleeds, envenom, FoK, did i miss something in the assassiantion only kit there?

[dark garnet]

Its about builds being close enough where different damage profiles or preferences can be expressed

[royal lantern]

everything else tends to either be talents, or general rogue stuff

im sorry man, but there is close to 0 chance that this will actually be the reality of how it will end up

the reality will be that we have 1 general playstyle that is just better then everything else, and you can swap 2-3 things max

[subtle tundra]

i believe in a world where i can play my no seal fate + er build

[hollow river]

Making assa great again, one keybind at a time

The thing is most of the extra abilities have a decently long CD @subtle tundra

[royal lantern]

^

[hollow river]

Dance and Cold Blood are like 1 min ya?

[royal lantern]

and assa is low on rotiational stuff

OUTLAW suffers from getting to much new stuff cus its allready playing piano sometimes

[hollow river]

Mfd is 30sec which is a little meh, I agree

[bleak sky]

cb 45, dance 1

[royal lantern]

but assa? eh, you can just do a shift modifer on your normal abilitys and its done

[hollow river]

Gsw is a button on alpha with no CD

Shit is bugged af

[royal lantern]

almost like an alpha

[hollow river]

Yeah

[royal lantern]

[hollow river]

[royal lantern]

+you also need to remember that there is a high chance for some stuff to just go away

[hollow river]

What else does assa gain?

[royal lantern]

the current tree is the first ALPHA VERSION we have

[hollow river]

Sepsis maybe

[royal lantern]

they can just say "oh, dance for all specs is a mistake(and pls do it cus it is a mistake lol)" and its gone and replaced with something else

[subtle tundra]

nah

realz said he likes it

[hollow river]

I really don’t think it’s a mistake tbh

I like the idea

[subtle tundra]

and so do i xd

[dark garnet]

Sublaw looks really interesting

[royal lantern]

do you like the idea or do you like that it is broken af right now?

honest question

[hollow river]

More stealth ability time is good for all specs

[subtle tundra]

its 1 min cd so not very much sublaw

[hollow river]

I simply like it thematically

[royal lantern]

everytime somone says sublaw, a puppy AND a kitten dies

horrible

[dark garnet]

Well ambush build

[subtle tundra]

i dont think its gonna work out with outlaw since they dont have burst to fit in 9 seconds every 1 min

[hollow river]

I like the idea of a 1 minute bit of burst outside of our regular 2 minute burst

[subtle tundra]

assa maybe will

[dark garnet]

Building cto in dance and then pop keep it rolling

[hollow river]

CTO procs tho

Would be stronk

[royal lantern]

honestly, my problem is that sub allready had a idenity crisis for 5+ years, and now they decided"everyone gets to play sub now!"

wich is weird af

like, dance and the burst it gives is supposed to be the sub thing

[subtle tundra]

shadow dance is 1 min cd with no cd reduction

[hollow river]

Imo sub should play with 60-80% Dance time

[royal lantern]

fuck no

[hollow river]

Lol

[bleak sky]

that's a lot of dance

[hollow river]

Yeah

Sub r purple boys

[royal lantern]

make sub a BURST spec again

go away with that shity 1-1-2 spam

much gameplay

strike strike evis

[hollow river]

Sure but do it by giving it better CDs other than dance

Backstab is lame af

[royal lantern]

meaningfull dances should be the goal, not the current dance spam

like WoD sub had

[subtle tundra]

so you will do 1-1-1-2 with backstab or?

[brave gyro]

depending on tuning it could already be different (gloom build with a lot of modifiers for juicy dmg in-between dances

[hollow river]

I do agree with you, but I don’t think Dance should be that burst

[brave gyro]

there is also the vanish cdr potential build with rotten that gives you extremely high uptime on SoD

[royal lantern]

almost as if sub is in dire need of a full rework for quiet some time now, right?

[subtle tundra]

no, fuck sub

[royal lantern]

yes, you fuck subs

thats the thing

[subtle tundra]

i only care for assa 😏

i only care for ass 🥺

[brave gyro]

idk, i like my class as a whole, if i can play all 3 specs, noice

[royal lantern]

spec 1tricks are icky

true chads play all specs and prefer 1

[subtle tundra]

NO. FUCK OUTLAW. FUCK SUB.

😠

[brave gyro]

[royal lantern]

aka: be like me and only play assa 80%of the time anyway

[deep dagger]

Holy shit, the new DF talents might actually make me go Rogue in DF

[limber lion]

That's me, but I do still think I'm an Assa onetrick even though I consider myself pretty decent on all 3 specs.

[subtle tundra]

i honestly just hate rogue players/outlaw 1 tricks cause most of them played it in bfa and only played outlaw and are just obsessed with outlaw. if outlaw isnt meta its the end of the world for them

[royal lantern]

played outlaw for Nathria cus SL launch assa was unplayable garbage, and did a 50/50 mix during uldir

[subtle tundra]

and those being the high m+ rogue players

[deep dagger]

For insane AoE capabilities, while still having Death Mark + Exsanguiate for Single-target funneling

Thoughts?

[royal lantern]

exsang is a meme

forget that ability pls

[bleak sky]

not great

[deep dagger]

For single-target funnel in m+ though?

[brave gyro]

I mean you sound the same, but for assa xD you're lucky its been meta for raids

[royal lantern]

and hope blizzard forgets it aswell

[bleak sky]

nope, not great

[deep dagger]

Where else would I put the point tho

[limber lion]

I played all 3 in CN, but mainly Sub for prog. Assa on every tier since 7.3 otherwise.

Outlaw SLG, Assa Sire, rest Subberino

[subtle tundra]

i've been playing assa for 6 years while being non-meta

and not caring

[bleak sky]

Highly doubt we ever play ER; you likely want dragon-tempered blades; you want seal of fate for m+; you want alacrity

[subtle tundra]

X - er good

[bleak sky]

varas no trolling

[subtle tundra]

• 2 gdkp no more loot for you

idk what gdkp is

[bleak sky]

good boi points for showing up to the raid and not fucking up

so you get to use your good boi points to "buy" items from the raid loot / go up in the prio list (back when master loot was a thing)

[limber lion]

[deep dagger]

Even more than Shadow Dance though?

[bleak sky]

you want shadow dance

too good not to pick right now

[brave gyro]

you'd do better with something like this

[deep dagger]

So no Reprimand?

[limber lion]

You don't go middle tree on Assa

[bleak sky]

no reprimand

reprimand bad

[limber lion]

Left and right trees

[subtle tundra]

:(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

this is catastrophic

[limber lion]

What Punz linked is pretty solid

[bleak sky]

ya

[deep dagger]

How come Twist the Knife, rather than Amplifying Poison?

[brave gyro]

and if u want u can sbterfuge and drop the crit

[limber lion]

Some things would be different in an ideal build, but it's decent

Like we wouldn't take 3 points in Alacrity f.ex

[limber lion]

TtK serves AoE better than Amp

Amp is likely much better in ST

[deep dagger]

Isn't it just 1 Garrote opener, due to Indiscriminate Carnage?

Garrotes everything + silences everything for 3 seconds

[limber lion]

Yoy use IC to spread Ruptures

[subtle tundra]

doesnt empowered garrote allow for 3x garrote?

[limber lion]

For SoB

[deep dagger]

But it spreads both

[subtle tundra]

so you dont need subterfuge

[limber lion]

Read again

[deep dagger]

Next Garrote and Rupture

[bleak sky]

I think this is what I'd run for now in the very alpha stage

but yknow

alpha

very volatile

subject to change

[brave gyro]

yes true, forgor 💀

so yeah, what i linked originally

[limber lion]

Well it is interesting wording for sure

[deep dagger]

Yeah, IC isn't Garrote or rupture

it's bothj

[limber lion]

Who knows how it'll actually work

[subtle tundra]

should be both so i can spam CT afterwards

[deep dagger]

Cause if IC is both, then we'd not want to triple garrote opener

[subtle tundra]

welllllll

[dark garnet]

When ic is up

[subtle tundra]

hmmmmm

[deep dagger]

Click 3 buttons, everything in AoE has garrote + rupture

[subtle tundra]

you dont always have ic, its 1.5min cd

[deep dagger]

Into 1 FoK, into 1 CT

[limber lion]

I'd imagine it's either or, but who knows.

[brave gyro]

depends on your pulls - IC is a CD

[bleak sky]

mobs need to be gathered, you don't always have carnage up, some other variables

[deep dagger]

Ofcourse, and when it's not up we triple garrote

But I'm just purely talking a CD-ready M+ opener

[brave gyro]

its probably still worth it, because u get to extend

[bleak sky]

I think in this one the wording is clear, next garrote AND next rupture spread

[deep dagger]

Yeah

The wording literally can't be anymore specific

[bleak sky]

tbf tooltips in wow aren't great

[deep dagger]

Fact

[subtle tundra]

omg you arent great

[deep dagger]

Fact

[bleak sky]

also true

[limber lion]

Maybe, would be dope

[bleak sky]

the real question cev is: will cold blood work with bleeds?

[limber lion]

But yeh, we still spread garrets because packs usually live longer than 18s or you don't have IC up

[bleak sky]

realz seems to be undecided yet

[subtle tundra]

it will be omega cringeeeeeeeeee

[brave gyro]

he said it'd make sense, but as usual - nothing confirmed and its mostly thinking out loud

[bleak sky]

imagine the repercussions of dance -> cold blood -> carnage -> garrote (?)

[subtle tundra]

45s cd cb + 1 min cd shadow dance + 1.5 min cd ic

[limber lion]

Would be a tuning hassle I'd imagine. Probs not worth

[subtle tundra]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[bleak sky]

oh absolutely

would be fun though

[deep dagger]

What about our raid builds though?

[brave gyro]

or CB > Stepsis

[bleak sky]

sepsis costs 2 points

[brave gyro]

but its doomblade, for raids it'd be good probably

[bleak sky]

and gated behind doomblade which I don't really want for m+

[subtle tundra]

i want IC to be 1 min cd

i hate 1.5 min

its very very cringe to play in m+ with 1.5 min cds

😬

[bleak sky]

honestly don't know? something like this maybe (?)

this would be my take on it, I like the idea of doomblade and maim mangle

[deep dagger]

I thought Exsan was meme?

[bleak sky]

there are some trees flying around in here though, I'm sure you can search in:assassination has:image on discord and things will show up

[brave gyro]

i'd take 2 points in EP over exsang

[subtle tundra]

samesies

ep is HUGE

[bleak sky]

as is exsang looks stronk

[deep dagger]

What I think will be the play

[bleak sky]

whispyr and seli made a compelling argument: with the amount of damage amps you can get, exsang doesn't look half bad

[deep dagger]

Either this, or 2x Alacrity, 0 Strata, and then have 2 in Seal Fate

[main blaze]

yeah I think you will need the seal fate

[bleak sky]

idk

who knows

[deep dagger]

I'd hate raiding without the 8 energy refund when Mutilating from Venom Rush

[subtle tundra]

wat

[bleak sky]

we've been doing this for a while now

like sure the talent is nice

[deep dagger]

I haven't played rogue for a while, so I'm out of touch currently

[bleak sky]

but we can live without it

[brave gyro]

this

deeper strat no longer give u extra finisher dmg

2 points is plenty to keep stacks up

[bleak sky]

while I agree that maybe we don't need deeper strats, we also don't know what this means

[brave gyro]

seal fate is useful both in aoe and st

[deep dagger]

By how it's written, I'd expect it to just scale to 6 and 7 points

[bleak sky]

7 is sub/outlaw only

[subtle tundra]

could be big in m+ potentially

[deep dagger]

6 sorry*

[brave gyro]

that's new, they added it with yesterday's update?

[subtle tundra]

no

[bleak sky]

no

been there day 1

[brave gyro]

i still think it just means 6 p > regular upscaling from 5

[main blaze]

Yeah thats what I take it as

[brave gyro]

rupture is duration, envenom dmg/duration etc

[bleak sky]

idk

we don't know

can't really know

[subtle tundra]

go on the alpha and test dumbo

[bleak sky]

[strange python]

Honestly based on realz chat yesterday I think the tree will change enough that talking about specific builds at this point feels pointless

[bleak sky]

yes

[brave gyro]

well we can kinda guess from Outlaw, since they moved the 5% dmg to dispatcher

i doubt they'd give free 5% on finisher

[bleak sky]

but it's still something fun to do

people are interested, it's good

[bleak sky]

then you'd see something similar on eviscerate and rupture and etc etc no?

[strange python]

I agree. Just saying focusing on specific point allocation probably a waste of time, compared to general ideas

[bleak sky]

we can't know

[copper hazel]

it all helps realz make decisions as well though, more points of input on stuff, etc

[subtle tundra]

lets gaslight him

nvm

[bleak sky]

bad varas

[spice spire]

All hell gather is rogues are boomers obsessed with kingsbane and dfa tho

[subtle tundra]

i know what kingsbane is and i dont care about it

😏

[bleak sky]

flag but poisons

kinda

[subtle tundra]

i litearlly said i know what it is

[bleak sky]

but not really but kinda

O

I read "idk and idc"

[subtle tundra]

wow you cant read

[copper hazel]

make PB do dmg again and we all happy bois

[bleak sky]

[bleak sky]

no i cant read stop being racist to me

[subtle tundra]

boring ass talent

no thanks

[copper hazel]

what if it spread multiple pools with a talent

[viscid spear]

Defile mechanics?

[limber lion]

Realz said it's not increased damage because of balancing.

[copper hazel]

ye like defile kinda thing would be interesting

[bleak sky]

o i missed that ty cev

[copper hazel]

maybe too DK style

[spice spire]

Most sane assassination rogue

[subtle tundra]

a 6cp rupture gets put on a 2nd target POG?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[viscid spear]

Shame they only use Defile mechanics on bosses so they can show off floor clutter

[copper hazel]

trueee

[subtle tundra]

a 6cp envenom adds to the duration of rupture/garrote??!?!?

😭

a man can only dream

[copper hazel]

"your envenom re-tears the rupture and garrote bleeds on a target, extending the duration by 0.5seconds per 6 combo points used"

[subtle tundra]

it tears my assssssssss

[copper hazel]

can call it "Tearing Wounds"

[viscid spear]

Envenom: your target gets COVID
Rupture: summons baby vampires to lap up the blood
SnD: Vince Offer appears and brags about nuts

[pure bane]

How much of a detriment to aoe damage is venthyr > necrolord in m+?

[viscid spear]

AoE =/= Cleave

[pure bane]

Ahh perfect

I didn’t want to feel like I was missing out on the fun, but yeah there are other specs for big big pulls

[gusty mirage]

[burnt latch]

hey

i just wanted to wish everyone who reads this a wonderful day

[bleak sky]

good evening cieft

you're too kind

[ebon notch]

evening?

[bleak sky]

idk man

[burnt latch]

its kinda evening for me tbh

[bleak sky]

what time is it in northland

[burnt latch]

16 is evening right

[bleak sky]

oh it's just 6

afternoon king cieft

[burnt latch]

not 6, 16

[ebon notch]

16 is late afternoon

[bleak sky]

+6

I mean

[burnt latch]

ah east coast baby

[bleak sky]

timezones

[ebon notch]

almost mid afternoon tbh

[burnt latch]

when does evening start

6pm?

[ebon notch]

ye

idk if theres an official term

but thats when it feels like it to me

[grizzled jay]

i just wanted to wish evewyone who weads dis a wondewfuw day

[burnt latch]

yeah around 6pm feels like an appropriate time for evening

[ebon notch]

die

ingame

[bleak sky]

the words I want to type are redacted

unfort

have a great day tmb

[subtle tundra]

its literally 4pm

[ebon notch]

its literally 2pm

[subtle tundra]

youre literally trying to gaslight me

[ebon notch]

ITS LITERALLY 2PM

[subtle tundra]

im blocking gaslighters

[empty hinge]

I’m sorry but it’s 16:16

[subtle tundra]

a true man

[bleak sky]

bro I had to open fucking google maps

[grizzled jay]

Euros

[bleak sky]

I didn't know you were closer to me than cieft

nvm

I can't function right now

read 4pm -> surely 4pm = 14h = 2pm

[subtle tundra]

you literally have a clussy pfp

stfu

[gusty mirage]

[ebon notch]

ur meant to prevent this

smh

[bleak sky]

and im cringe

[ebon notch]

oxi just a podcaster now

[gusty mirage]

I’m waiting

[ebon notch]

smh tbh

[gusty mirage]

One big purge

[ebon notch]

[gusty mirage]

Mutes all around

[ebon notch]

please mute everyone

[gusty mirage]

[ebon notch]

would be top memes

everyone wondering what they did wrong

[gusty mirage]

Lmao

[bleak sky]

I'm speedrunning shadowblades any%, can't be muted

wait not shadowblades, shadow

[gusty mirage]

!log @bleak sky

[prisma monolith]

Warnings: 0
Mutes: 0
Bot-Filter: 3

[gusty mirage]

[bleak sky]

I know what those 3 are

[vestal wren]

!log @gusty mirage

[prisma monolith]

Warnings: 0
Mutes: 0
Bot-Filter: 1

[vestal wren]

[ebon notch]

OH NO HE DIDN

[gusty mirage]

I know what mine is too

[ebon notch]

do me do me

[burnt latch]

!log @burnt latch

[vestal wren]

!log @ebon notch

[prisma monolith]

Warnings: 0
Mutes: 0
Bot-Filter: 5

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

!log @vestal wren

[prisma monolith]

Warnings: 0
Mutes: 18
Bot-Filter: 13

[ebon notch]

wtf

[vestal wren]

but we should move that to #off-topic

[ebon notch]

AHHAAHHA

[ebon notch]

NOTHIN TO SEE HERE

[grizzled jay]

Don't be upset clussies don't want Euros

[copper hazel]

fuu's a bad boi

[bleak sky]

surely was just testing the filter functionality

[burnt latch]

!ban @ebon notch

[vestal wren]

shadowblades are not on the bot filter 😉

[burnt latch]

have you guys thought about updating the Shadowblades term to something more inclusive

"Blades"

Shadowblades seems oddly specific

[verbal mantle]

pls use #bot-spam thanks

let OT alone

[gusty mirage]

Yeah it’s almost as if it’s related to rogue lore or something

Insane concept

[burnt latch]

u can lore this

[gusty mirage]

[burnt latch]

[viscid spear]

"Blades" is the name of that loser faction in Skyrim.

[gusty mirage]

You offering?

[burnt latch]

u know i am bb

[spice spire]

I was stuck in traffic and saw a meme opportunity, traffic quickly ended.
But yeah, it’s all testing. Shadowblades can have full on gamer moments and not be filtered (but they won’t because they’re trusted)

[viscid spear]

We can trust you to be untrusting

[violet jackal]

Please stop discording and driving quake you are not replaceable in this community 🫂

[spice spire]

Non-moving traffic. The second it goes, I drive. I’ve seen too many accidents to fully discord/text and drive. Will end the non-wow memes here, but don’t text and drive

[strange python]

Sounds like la

[boreal cedar]

what are the recommended legendaries for assa in pvp, seems to be pretty mixed in the pvp ladder

[bleak sky]

check #pvp

[boreal cedar]

ok mb, thought this was for discussion, ill just google it and use the same wowhead article as they have pinned in PVP

[bleak sky]

it's for discussion yeah but mostly PvE focused

but the pvp channel should be good

[spice spire]

Yeah, unfortunately this channel is for PvE andys

[bleak sky]

though @gusty mirage is pretty decent at pvp

he could help for sure

[gusty mirage]

You playing 3s or 2s?

[boreal cedar]

nothing so far, just gathering mats for legendaries

but i'll continue in the pvp channel, so not to muddy up this one

[gusty mirage]

I’d just craft a haste vers duskwalkers then

You can get away with other stuff in 2s esp if you play double dps

But dusk was super viable pre tier set and now it’s just too strong with the tier

[boreal cedar]

alright thank you

[hollow river]

Master assassin is good as well if you’re trying to go for a more bursty NF set up. Would only recommend that for 2s though

[violet jackal]

In theory Potion of Power is going to be better for us right?

[hollow river]

Compared to Ultimate Power? Or compared to all the other options

[oak sky]

All the phials look garbage though

[bleak sky]

unlucky because there are no flasks

[oak sky]

Well ye the phials are flasks

There might have been an aoe one thats tood

Good

But the st one is the stand still one

Which is for sure garbage on melee

[gusty mirage]

Any aoe potion they’ve ever tried making ended up sucking

[oak sky]

Yeah idk

I just want a boring flask again tbh

The rp of putting it on is enough for me

[violet jackal]

Imagine asking melee to not A-D-A-D during their burst window

[oak sky]

Or jump

Or a fire mage to not jump

[unique kettle]

do you not use ambush as sin?

[bleak sky]

very rare cases

rare = talented into subterfuge

and even then it's a very very small optimization to do so

[unique kettle]

can i get a reasoning as to why?

[woeful meteor]

there is a command for it but cant remember which one

!ambush

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[lucid birch]

Minalba should try ! test

[bleak sky]

ambush just does more damage

slightly

the command you want is !mut @woeful meteor

[woeful meteor]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used with non-venthyr builds using subterfuge
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3) and it's interaction with Flagellation.
You also have to consider the additional poison application chances. Ambush is not considerably worse or better in any situation, so you aren't losing out on much if you don't use it.

[unique kettle]

so mutilate crits give 1 extra combo point?

[spice spire]

They give up to two additional combo points

[bleak sky]

mutilate can crit with both weapons so it can roll 1 extra crit yeah

[spice spire]

One for each strike

[unique kettle]

mm ok ty

[bleak sky]

but i'm pretty sure venthyr builds with subterfuge also ambush

and the only real use case is m+ single target

or cleave

[viscid spear]

The strafing, it does nothing!

[spice spire]

It adds damage

[viscid spear]

Brain damage, maybe

[spice spire]

Silence mage main

(Main because more geared than rogue)

[violet jackal]

it shows dominance during spread mechanics

[viscid spear]

You know what would help? Killing Rygelon

I'ma have to pug it I guess

[spice spire]

Don’t remind me

[viscid spear]

[spice spire]

Shouldn’t have to be there

Just need tanks to not die

[viscid spear]

Rygelon had a hateboner, smh ong

But I don't know who is more geared now, they're very close at least

[oak sky]

Nah bro mages jump or strafe so they dont hardcast pyro in combust by mistake

Theyre just like me fr

[spice spire]

I never bust by mistake

[viscid spear]

We'll take your word for it

Because I bust all the time

[oak sky]

Arcane looks kinda lit

Assuming the changes in df are all good

My saul viewing about to start 🛩

[bleak sky]

safe travels

[slow marsh]

too real

[remote heath]

have they said why there isnt any choice nodes in any of the rogue trees compared to something like druid

[thorny pond]

druid is a mess of a class that's why

[oak sky]

Just a design thing, pretty sure we're gonna get a few later on

I would think the idea is to give us as much of our kit as possible without choice nodes and then use choice nodes to add on extra shit if needed

[thorny pond]

"Choose between CoS and Cheat Death"

[hollow river]

If you check out the pins, a couple choice nodes have been discussed and might be getting added

[hollow river]

You’ve been busted

🚔

[spice spire]

[hollow river]

We’ve had you under heavy surveillance I’m not gonna lie

Our log watchers are the best in the business

[spice spire]

@bleak sky ong

I swear

But yeah

Lackin this tier

[slow marsh]

same bro

its ok

[spice spire]

This mf quit the game but became a patron

Damn

[slow marsh]

If i'm not supporting the homies in game I do it in the front office bro

[spice spire]

You can support my front office, bro

[slow marsh]

uwu

[viscid spear]

The back entrance is where the business is done

[spice spire]

[slow marsh]

[viscid spear]

[hollow river]

Bazoinga

[spice spire]

Shaboyken

[ebon notch]

ayo?

[violet jackal]

New parsing trinket, sacrifice your carries(I mean lacking raid members) one at a time

[subtle tundra]

perfect for jailer!

[lilac haven]

On jailer is it worth it to hold cds for the first blood soak or just use on pull?

[violet jackal]

Send

[lilac haven]

Okay thank you

[ebon notch]

you use on pull and save sigil + pot

then on your second cd set at 1:20

you use all with pot and sigil

cause you will also be blood soaking there

[violet jackal]

Logs show a heavy consencious of First Sigil+Combat Potion+Vendetta at the 2nd blood soak

[lilac haven]

Okay that's what I've been doing but just wanted to double check

[ebon notch]

heres what it looked like for me

[lilac haven]

Thanks !

[cerulean nest]

these talents are looking v fun

[ebon notch]

@spice spire ディーズナッツ

[spice spire]

FUCKING GOT ME

[ebon notch]

its ok i got got

@bleak sky ディーズナッツ

[spice spire]

Damn

we truly live on a society

[bleak sky]

[ebon notch]

its too easy

[strange python]

Is there a special channel for simc help / tutorial?

I don't wanna go off topic

[balmy condor]

Would just be spec channels

There is also

[strange python]

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/shadowlands/profiles/Tier28/T28_Rogue_Assassination.simc

[balmy condor]

!simguide

[prisma monolith]

Guide to Simming yourself: https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-raidbots-sims-stat-weights

For more accurate results you should always sim yourself using Top Gear for gear you already have in your bags
or Droptimizer to see which content drops the biggest upgrade for you. Do not use Stat Weights sims to evaluate gear.

[strange python]

Gotcha

Cna you tell me what i'm looking at there?

[balmy condor]

Idk how advanced we need to go

[strange python]

like eli5, what "is that"?

PS I appreciate it

[balmy condor]

Yeah that link you sent is the default profile

A profile is basically the same as a character

This one doesn’t exist irl

[strange python]

ok i got it - this represents a "character" that is a mechagnome, etc

I was hoping this was the "APL"

[balmy condor]

But it’s the one that simulationcraft uses for the big chart

[balmy condor]

It includes that

[strange python]

ahh ok

[balmy condor]

If you look under the renown

It’ll say consumables

And under that chunk

It’ll start talking about action priority list

[strange python]

ahh yes: # This default action priority list is automatically created based on your character.

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[strange python]

ok cool thanks - the top part was throwing me off i think

[balmy condor]

And everything under that is the APL

[strange python]

gotcha

applies to ALL covenants

[balmy condor]

Yes, there’s conditionals for each covnenant and stuff

[strange python]

ok great, thanks man

[balmy condor]

If you do a sim on raidbots, there’s a “full html” button on the right

That can also take you to the apl

[strange python]

ahh yes i have clicked that before

[balmy condor]

Because it sends you to the raw simcraft report

[strange python]

perfect, this'll keep me busy for a while

[balmy condor]

Yeah it’s pretty interesting but honestly not that useful

[strange python]

who builds these, you do?

[balmy condor]

Well they were originally built with the first simcraft builds in mop/wod

And then just iterated on every time someone found a gain

[strange python]

Now there is an "engine"

where food=feast_of_gluttonous_hedonism

[balmy condor]

These days that’s mostly me, but it’s all open source, so people like cev help out

[strange python]

means something - obviously it gives the "actor" the food buff

[balmy condor]

Yeah

The engine is a spooky place

[strange python]

that's all in here too right

[balmy condor]

I don’t touch that

[strange python]

gotcha - but if i wanted to find all that code, that's all in here?

[balmy condor]

That would be in the GitHub yes

[strange python]

cool

thanks man

i know you're busy

[balmy condor]

Well

Im just waking up atm

Not too busy yet

[strange python]

Where you live?

[balmy condor]

California

[strange python]

gotcha

[subtle tundra]

damn

so sorry

hope it gets better @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

Ain’t nothing wrong with cali

[strange python]

Some of my favorite "youtube cyclists" live in cali - beautiful place

[subtle tundra]

i have a friend who lived in cali... he moved to arizona

[balmy condor]

Oh so he’s a dumbass

[subtle tundra]

you stoopid

cali bad

[balmy condor]

No one moves to Arizona willingly

You’re insane

[velvet ridge]

Cali is a desert, I hate it

[subtle tundra]

(this is the opinion of an european poopoo man that has no clue about the US)

cali bad

[ebon notch]

food desert or smth

[spice spire]

I have bad news about Arizona then buddy

[strange python]

rofl

I think arizona is more of a desert than cali?

but I'm an east coaster

[spice spire]

Yes

[balmy condor]

Arizona is actually full desert yes

[velvet ridge]

Lol I ain't going to Arizona either

[subtle tundra]

he had deer in his yard at some point(cute)

[strange python]

Cali has beautiful mountains and stuff...I think people "hear cali" and think San Fransisco

[subtle tundra]

that cant happen to me when i live in a big capital, the best i've had was rats

[velvet ridge]

The Beach water is too dam cold to go in too

[strange python]

Not that there's anything wrong with SF but - cali is large and awesome in some places.

[balmy condor]

I live in the South Bay so honestly it’s pretty much that

[strange python]

I've never been to the west coast - and probably never will.

[balmy condor]

Unlucky

[strange python]

It's weird - any time we go to the beach - the sun is over the ocean in the morning - and it's opposite for you.

[balmy condor]

I’m never getting a hug

[subtle tundra]

how far is the beach

[ebon notch]

i can give u a hug

[bleak sky]

cali expensive but cali looks pretty

(opinion from a shithole man that has no clue about cali)

[ebon notch]

cali kind of a dump ngl

ive been twice

way too many homeless people

[balmy condor]

I can be at the beach in about 30 minutes, driving north or south

[bleak sky]

bruh

aint nothing but a scratch

[ebon notch]

like

i had to go through a town of homeless people

[spice spire]

BRAZILLLL

[ebon notch]

it was really not pretty

[bleak sky]

IDK MAN

[spice spire]

RDJ is like really bad iirc

[bleak sky]

can't be that bad

[ebon notch]

[bleak sky]

did I want to cry every time I left my house to go to the grocery store? yes

do I still want to? yes

[spice spire]

[bleak sky]

daps contributing to the APL when

that's the real question

[violet jackal]

New Phial 👀

[bleak sky]

man is a sim FIEND, has to give back

[ebon notch]

ive been banned from apl'ing

[spice spire]

I’ve seen some daps attempts

They make me look good

Practice only helps tho papi

[balmy condor]

He’s worse than you?

[spice spire]

(No one will ever get anything from me unless I know it’s a gain for sure)

[bleak sky]

hold shiv for 50 sec

[spice spire]

Yeah that’s a stretch

[bleak sky]

slandering my boy quake?

[ebon notch]

ive never messed with the APL

[spice spire]

Daps demonic

[bleak sky]

I will not accept that

[ebon notch]

ill be honest

[spice spire]

“Hey is this a gain”

[ebon notch]

so y'all fake hoes

[spice spire]

I’ve seen some of those

[spice spire]

Can’t be slander if he’s right

[drowsy crescent]

any new revelations/discoveries from the alpha?

[balmy condor]

The discovery is that nothing is implemented

[drowsy crescent]

🤔

[gusty mirage]

trash

[drowsy crescent]

so the trees are there, but nothing is working?

[balmy condor]

Correct

This is the havoc tree currently for reference

We have the actual tree

But most of the nodes don’t do anything

[drowsy crescent]

ahh, that's what i figured

i just saw a screenshot of the talent UI, takes up almost the entire damn screen lol

[spice spire]

Damn papi

[ebon notch]

😦

[harsh anchor]

that bangs

[glacial bough]

i rock w/ that

[cerulean nest]

the mummy wraps underneath are sick lol

[lucid birch]

Know what else bangs

[strange python]

Yoooooo rogue set looks sick

[spice spire]

U

[lucid birch]

[hollow dirge]

Pretty sick, would prefer a bit more rogueish shoulders. These ones look a bit monky monk

[strange python]

The concept art in grey/black looks very rogue-y.

Might be difficulty differences

[lucid birch]

There are more texture packs they haven’t skinned on yet

[white orchid]

I guess we have to go outlaw

[violet jackal]

that's a warglaive

[white orchid]

Some reason I read sword sheeeesh

That would’ve been nutty

[violet jackal]

It does have a sword like name but unforunately it is not

[white orchid]

I think there’s a trinket that does exactly that effect I wonder if it stacks lol

[violet jackal]

There a one handed STR sword that double swings I thought it would be a nutty outlaw weapon but uh turned out they can't use it 🙃

[viscid spear]

Stop being nutty

[white orchid]

I don’t think they ever made a dagger with an effect from dungeons.

[violet jackal]

vanilla had one

[cerulean nest]

i missed the chat on the new trinkets I assume happened yesterday. any thoughts?

[white orchid]

Well I mean in recent times like since BfA

[hollow dirge]

Yeah

[winged basin]

ROGUE TIER LOOKING CLEAN BOYS WOAH

[viscid spear]

[winged basin]

you aint rockin with it? @viscid spear

[royal lantern]

concept art almost always shows the mythic version

wich always also has more effects and stuff

[viscid spear]

Gonna mog on goggles and a different shoulders but otherwise nice

[winged basin]

You can't go wrong with goggles, but I do wish the helm wasnt so huge. Streamline it a little bit and I think its pretty dang sweet.

[royal lantern]

turn head off

[lucid birch]

No head?

[ebon notch]

https://tenor.com/view/anger-angry-break-gif-19098093

[viscid spear]

https://tenor.com/view/durarara-drrr-celty-anime-headless-gif-12284925

[thorn fjord]

Hey guys... my browser cache is screwy and i really dont want to delete it lol... I'm getting 2 different results for the same gear set with no APLs and the same stuff chosen... Anyone mind running a top gear for me? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kLcZTytRaJoH2yJDzWN2X9

was mainly trying to find optimal gem/enchant

[grizzled jay]

hello Sin channel

[cursive orchid]

hello tmb

[balmy condor]

What’s the other sim

[grizzled jay]

how are you all doing

[slow marsh]

So like do people really hate mfd that much?

[oak sky]

Yeah