assassination

[bleak sky]

But then again I've no idea what to replace it with

[oak sky]

Something else thats bursty but actually good sounds cool

[sharp falcon]

ttb 1000% dmg got it

[bleak sky]

These pixels are very real Mr developer

[oak sky]

Kinda based

[bleak sky]

[oak sky]

How about ttb 2000%

Juice 1 finisher per 25s 😈

[sharp falcon]

why not 5000%?

brb gonna have to pack desk

[oak sky]

[bleak sky]

gz agreon you broke realz

[oak sky]

And we still have tb

Ttb

[bleak sky]

[sharp falcon]

tiny not-toxic blade

[chilly marsh]

i can KINGSBANE

[bleak sky]

Capstone: shiv and tb are now two separate spells

[spice spire]

Tiny extremely toxic blade

[oak sky]

Kingsbane is one thought but was that actually good or is it legion nostalgia

[hollow escarp]

it was good

[bleak sky]

No idea get the boomers in here

O hey

They came

[oak sky]

Good like strong or good like fun

[hollow escarp]

hey, I'm not 30 yet

[oak sky]

(Fun is always better)

[chilly marsh]

kingsbane WAS SOOOO GOOOD MAN

[spice spire]

Okay boomers

[hollow escarp]

some compare flag with kingsbane

but idk

[bleak sky]

Google kingsbane what it do

[chilly marsh]

Releases lethal poison within The Kingslayers and injects it into your target, dealing (81% + 81%) Nature damage instantly and an additional (52.92% of Attack power) Nature damage over 14 sec.

Each time you apply a Lethal Poison to a target affected by Kingsbane, Kingsbane damage increases by 15%.

[oak sky]

I dont hate flag but i also dont need it

Ye ive read kingsbane before

[bleak sky]

Each time you apply a Lethal Poison to a target affected by Kingsbane, Kingsbane damage increases by 15%.

[oak sky]

Ig it would count as another lethal poison

[chilly marsh]

it was a poison where you could build a big hit on last tick

[oak sky]

For lethal dose

😈

So its a 14s poisoj

[bleak sky]

Surely this isn't broken with shadow dance + 100% application from stealth

[oak sky]

Poison

[bleak sky]

SURELY

[spice spire]

[oak sky]

Would it affect our rotation at all

[bleak sky]

[oak sky]

Other than pressing it

[chilly marsh]

now imagine if you could time coldblood for a 100% crit on the last ticks of kingsbane

[bleak sky]

Looks pretty hassle free rotation wise

[oak sky]

I mean i dont mind slight changes you have to plan around

[bleak sky]

But for sure can't exist in a world with 100% poison app + shadow dance right

Like surely

[hollow escarp]

I don't see an issue with that

[chilly marsh]

this 100% poison app will be changed for sure

[bleak sky]

Right now it does nothing

[sharp falcon]

Kingsbane as choice node vs TTB is interesting but right now it's juuuuust possible to get that + Dragon Tempered Blades at the same time, and I'm not sure how to balance it with/without, it would be the ONLY way to play it

[toxic locust]

honestly i do like TTB, i just don't think it's exciting as a capstone

[bleak sky]

Name checks out

[sharp falcon]

If I add a required point in each path, Kingsbane becomes a more likely capper option in that row

[chilly marsh]

some kind of iternal cd for proc? to work as if only one letal

[oak sky]

Ttb definitely seems a little weak tho like its a damage buff on ONE ABILITY that you press every 25s

[strange python]

wouldn't it make some sense to replace TTB with some sort of execute related thing, since its under zoldyck

[gusty mirage]

hi im here

[strange python]

perhaps make it so shiv nature amp is like 50% in execute or something

just a thought

[bleak sky]

Did you like kingsbane?

[gusty mirage]

yeah it was cool

but I also played sub in legion

unlucky

[hollow escarp]

dfa enjoyer

[oak sky]

Fake one trick

[sharp falcon]

this type of solution totally reasonable in any circumstance where the benefits outweigh the costs, but at this point it sounds like a hidden "F U" to the player who thinks they thought of a cool combo =/

[chilly marsh]

realz while we are talking about ttb is it possible to split shiv dmg/ utility?

[sharp falcon]

I really don't want to

[oak sky]

Since kingsbane is a poison it would have synergy with zoldyck

[sharp falcon]

already too many buttons

I'd sooner delete the utility aspect than split them into two again

[hollow escarp]

raging assa keys

[gusty mirage]

assa keys

[oak sky]

Are we the only spec with shiv nkw

Now

[sharp falcon]

yes

[hollow escarp]

ohh

didn't even realize that

[oak sky]

Like the spec with the worst use of the enrage dispel is the one that gets it

Little awkward

[sharp falcon]

There was a version of the tree where Shiv was on both trees

so Assa had 2 charges

but none of the other specs liked picking it, felt like a dead button they had to path thru

[chilly marsh]

realz what if your non letal poisons had a % to dispel enrage ? too broken maybe...

[gusty mirage]

I can only imagine what busted combos people would come up with in pvp w/ 2 charges of shiv

[iron valve]

better shiv than garotte

[versed mica]

Lmao imagine 2 charge 20% poison damage oh my god

[sharp falcon]

enrage is a topic

[hollow escarp]

after leaving a 8 sec kidney, enjoy your 90% movement speed reduction

[sharp falcon]

8 sec Kidney OUT

[chilly marsh]

shiv could have 0 cd and every 20s the next cast is empowered?

[bleak sky]

2 shiv charges?

[oak sky]

Too complicated

[chilly marsh]

that way you could use shiv to dispel when needed and keep the 20% dmg

[bleak sky]

Sounds clunky

[oak sky]

Honestly i think all the solutions are worse than the problem

[sharp falcon]

novel idea but not worth the cost of buff/timer tracking, easier to just have a button that you can use when it's off CD

[bleak sky]

Tbf I don't mind removing soothe from shiv

[gusty mirage]

can we have a talent that makes people in here stop crying

is that a thing

[sharp falcon]

it's not crazy

[sharp falcon]

yes, but no one wants that

[gusty mirage]

pls save me

[sharp falcon]

ppl stop caring = ded gaem

[bleak sky]

Listen we got the first tree out of N trees

This is the time to cry

[gusty mirage]

if I hear kingsbane one more time

I'm changing your names

[bleak sky]

[sharp falcon]

kingsbane

[toxic locust]

kingsbane!

[sharp falcon]

u wont

[bleak sky]

He kinda got you oxi

[cursive summit]

Kingsbane plz

[gusty mirage]

[bleak sky]

Watchu gonna do

[strange python]

@gusty mirage thoughts on a talent named Bane of Kings replacing TTB?

[gusty mirage]

good idea

[sharp falcon]

hey i just want to add u on bnet whats ur id oxi

[hollow escarp]

garona's dagger perhaps

[oak sky]

Lmao

Oxi going big

[gusty mirage]

we should also replace shadow dance and call it sneaky shuffle

how about that one @strange python

[sharp falcon]

lol

[gusty mirage]

you can save me from reclears?

[strange python]

I prefer Umbral Waltz

[gusty mirage]

best wow dev ever

[sharp falcon]

i was more thinking banhammer but it was a bluff

[gusty mirage]

so saving me from reclears

[bleak sky]

The man wants to quit the game

[sharp falcon]

my name hasn't changed either so i guess you were bluffing too

[bleak sky]

You banning him is just a reward

[cursive summit]

[thorny pond]

Band of kings #assassination

[gusty mirage]

yeah I don't want whispyr to yell at me

[sharp falcon]

fair

me either tbh

[gusty mirage]

ask him about his frozen egg sometime

[sharp falcon]

is this a setup

[gusty mirage]

sadly no

I watched the man microwave a frozen egg

[quasi ledge]

Add smoke bomb back for PvE and then Assass has too much utility to also have an Enrage dispel so remove that from Shiv, fixed :)

[sharp falcon]

I'm ignorant, is that a bad idea

[thorny pond]

Have you ever had a microwaved egg?

[versed mica]

Depends, is the egg already cooked?

[gusty mirage]

honestly, I'm not sure. The sus part was when he cracked it open on his counter-top

[cursive summit]

????

[hollow escarp]

I'm gonna see myself out

[storm onyx]

Removing sooth from Shiv is a pvp downgrade tho

[toxic locust]

i've got this great idea for a new pvp talent

[gusty mirage]

is it kingsbane?

[quasi ledge]

Barely a downgrade

[strange python]

removing a soothe from a class entirely is also a dungeon design thing

[sharp falcon]

When I worked at a bagel shop, we had this carton of egg that you would microwave in a little cylinder container and it would fluff and solidify in the shape of the container, to then throw on a bagel sandwich or etc. It was exactly the 3/10 type of egg experience you'd expect

[versed mica]

Even better, make cold blood make the next ability you use that crits remove an enrage

[sharp falcon]

yes exactly, not something i can do on a whim

[thorny pond]

Exactly. So now add a frozen egg to this mix

[cursive summit]

Whatre the chances of Sin getting Kingsbane back?

[toxic locust]

exactly 3

3 chances

[cursive summit]

I'll take it

[hollow escarp]

tbf it's very unlikely that assa will have prio in m+ from the other 2 rogue specs, and they won't have soothe

[strange python]

idk about that lol

[sharp falcon]

chance #1, Eskwyre make the case, court is in session, you have 60 seconds to make your opening argument

[strange python]

the assa tree looks quite good for m+

[stuck knoll]

Cracked it open and stuck his fingers in

[toxic locust]

hurry @cursive summit

[cursive summit]

Kingsbane > Sepsis 😄

[gusty mirage]

LMFAO

[stuck knoll]

It was certainly an experience

[versed mica]

Bone spike > kingsbane > sepsis?

[gusty mirage]

As an actual lawyer, you'd be subject to discipline from the State Bar for bringing a frivolous lawsuit @cursive summit

[cursive summit]

I think Kingsbane fits more thematically than Sepsis

As it interacts with poisons

[hollow escarp]

they are 2 different things

[versed mica]

Sepsis IS a poison tho lmao

[cursive summit]

Also I just wanna see some obscene numbers from Dragon-tempered blades lmao

[languid crag]

Mayhaps a chance for a choice node

[hollow escarp]

poison bleed

[toxic locust]

choice node with dragon blades? 👀

[cursive summit]

it being a choice on the sepsis node would be fine

if people like Sepsis

[granite widget]

indiscriminate carnage seems like it'd be very fun

but imagine only doing aoe once every 1.5mins in keys

[sharp falcon]

the Judge has reviewed your case and dismissed it, Sepsis has the right to exist and its life cannot be cast aside so casually as such. The court would prefer that future arguments need not be baselessly rooted in Talent-on-Talent violence, and seeks a more harmonious solution. COURT IS ADJOURNED

[subtle tundra]

the court is mean

[cursive summit]

[strange python]

Kingsbane is as much cope for assa as dfa is for sub

we have to move on brothers

[toxic locust]

kingsbane from above

[hollow escarp]

[toxic locust]

the perfect talent

[sharp falcon]

the 'could be a choice node' is closer, but came in too late, 2 chances remain

[languid crag]

I like this Realz guy

give me BIG Hopium

[versed mica]

@sharp falcon do you work on the outlaw tree as well? Wanted to say kudos to who did, looks great so far

[languid crag]

for my alt in Dragonflight

[sharp falcon]

ye

[versed mica]

Based

[toxic locust]

i just wanted to say i think kingsbane would be a fantastic addition to outlaw

[sharp falcon]

I had some help from Vhell esp on Outlaw but I'm responsible for the tree

[gusty mirage]

I'll cut you

[languid crag]

then again rogue could be fun to main if shadow doesn't turn out well

[bleak sky]

have you seen the shadow tree?

[languid crag]

... Yes

[stuck knoll]

As an outlaw otp it did a great job of getting me excited

[cursive summit]

Outlaw looks really good

[sharp falcon]

we Outlaw chat now

[languid crag]

rogue in general looks amazing to me

[hollow escarp]

yellow names invaded

[bleak sky]

not again nooooo

[strange python]

here comes "can we keep 100% dance uptime pwease 🥺 "

[bleak sky]

first the outlaw people took over outlaw and I didn't care

[languid crag]

I like sin almost as much as outlaw but outlaw goes brrt atm

[bleak sky]

then they came for the sub but I didn't care

now they come for sin

[midnight mist]

no ty

[gusty mirage]

I still don't care

let the pirates roam free

[sharp matrix]

outlaw = BIG nerf before release

[bleak sky]

shut your boomer ass up oxi I'll cut your garlic supply

[toxic locust]

i saw the green pfp and the red name and i thought you were realz

[languid crag]

[sharp falcon]

tons of things will get nerfed, tons of things will get buffed, tuning very much TBD it's super early

[hot chasm]

[hollow escarp]

[languid crag]

Yea that's why I'm holding out hope

[gusty mirage]

My life is about to get ended

[bleak sky]

It's day 5 of the trees being released, why are they not perfectly tuned huh?

WHY MR DEV answer

[stuck knoll]

y'all talking a lot of smack about outlaw for people in muting distance

[bleak sky]

ronkles pirate enjoyer?

[languid crag]

o shi

[gusty mirage]

outlaw rogues smell like poop

[toxic locust]

well if the problem with kingsbane is dragon-tempered blades being too op with it, couldn't they be a choice node?

[stuck knoll]

Not you you have a free pass

[stuck knoll]

Indeed

[bleak sky]

Outlaw is great, I've always been a great proponent of outlaw

[stuck knoll]

I learned sin but my ADHD means I kinda zone out playing it

This is not a meme

[bleak sky]

fair

[cursive summit]

shhhh let it go through

it being 15% per poison is easily remedied by nerfing the 15%

[hot chasm]

I had alot of fun with outlaw in BFA but have become a sinner as of later

[bleak sky]

whispyr really do be typing up the bible huh

[hollow escarp]

new copy pasta

[gusty mirage]

it was nice knowing you guys

[chilly marsh]

the problem is that the talent need to stand alone and not be crap if not using tdb

[gusty mirage]

Realz gonna ban my wow account, whispyr's going to delete my existence

[bleak sky]

is that not all you ever wanted?

[languid crag]

yeet me off this mortal coil

[gusty mirage]

shut up, they might not do it if they realize it's what I want

[cursive summit]

true

[languid crag]

or something like that

[cursive summit]

whispyr stopped

[hot chasm]

Did he backspace it all?

[versed mica]

He went afk to get his shotgun before finishing

[stuck knoll]

Yeah imma head out you guys hf with Whispyrs deathnote

[chilly marsh]

just a idea but what if kingsbane did increased dmg not from poison apply but every X energy spent?

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/nipple-hussle-im-in-danger-gif-13918867

[versed mica]

HES BACK

[languid crag]

[cursive summit]

https://tenor.com/view/here-it-comes-tornado-meme-gif-23054073

[versed mica]

[gusty mirage]

bro there's no way you're still typing

discord can't hold that many characters

[cursive summit]

Has he fallen asleep on the keyboard?

[bleak sky]

He's a 50wpm typer ok

give him a break

[toxic locust]

he's about to drop a whole ass essay

[languid crag]

[balmy condor]

hi it's clown #2 back from hibernation, but what if you gave poison bomb 2 ranks, with the second increasing the proc chance, that would get you the point you're looking for to block KB and Dragon-tempered, would just hard-lock you out of it. If you still want the Dragon-tempered+carnage duo, you can then cut a point out of scent instead to balance it back out. Yesterday writing the spreadsheet I came up with sorta this idea Change zoldyck to a single point and swap with poison bomb. Give Poison Bomb 3 ranks instead which increases proc chance as an option to minimize the variance on the effect. When poison bomb procs, change it to put a debuff on the enemy instead of a ground effect. Which if we're trying to get another point in, could just be a zold 2-pointer right.

So instead of image 1 like now, you would get image 2 where now you added a point into that middle row and cut off the kingsbane. If you put scent to 2/2, you could then still have this image 3 thing going on with both.

(graphic design is my passion)

[cursive summit]

I SEE KINGSBANE, 10/10 I WANT IT

[versed mica]

https://c.tenor.com/DAFlmuvQi4kAAAAM/wind-windy.gif

[hot chasm]

[languid crag]

o shi

[oak sky]

Based

[cursive summit]

Yeah, I do agree with Whispyr, as much as i'd love the DTB + KB, it would absolutely be too ridiculous

[balmy condor]

would also help with the issue (in my opinion perceived) of having zold be stuck in such a nightmare column with no prospects in life

might make the middle row too strong though

dunno

[cursive summit]

that can be fixed with tuning i'd think?

[balmy condor]

I mean it's kinda hard

dashing is already at 1 energy per crit, and you can't really make dragon-tempered give half a poison or something

[cursive summit]

could make the secondary poisons 50% weaker?

[balmy condor]

or make kingsbane pump buckets so you want to take it

[strange python]

think putting zoldyck execute there would overload the middle no?

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

especially a 1 point zold

[bleak sky]

half poison for the inevitable partial partial ticks

[cursive summit]

1 point Zoid but nerfed a bit?

[sharp falcon]

i'd prefer to leave zoldyck in the same (left) row as blindside, it's sort of the generic nature + execute row atm, sepsis fits that, ttb fits that (i know it's not loved but yeah), and Kingsbane would fit that

[balmy condor]

makes sense

[sharp falcon]

making bomb better and 2pts is interesting and at least solves the immediate problem as stated

I don't have the bandwidth to change the function, but I'm interested in the suggestion regardless, why is that change desirable?

(debuff vs ground effect)

[balmy condor]

the issue with poison bomb right now is it's kind of a tiny aoe

so if the boss/mob is moving, you can just straight whiff

[sharp falcon]

ground effect is flavorful and technically aoe which tends to be welcome?

it pure misses?

[cursive summit]

having it tied to RNG, and having m+ affixes like sanguine, and being a tiny aoe makes it kinda aids in m+

[bleak sky]

Mobs move way too much for it to be effective in an aoe scenario and even in raids

[stuck knoll]

I think you should add an ability called swirl the poison that gives assassination one of 5 random buffs with the chance to get multiple

[harsh anchor]

What if pb has poxstorm passive or something similar tied to it so when the pool goes out, it spreads a little pox dot on everything

[cursive summit]

no plz

[stuck knoll]

And have it be a finisher

[bleak sky]

go back to the outlaw sewers

[chilly marsh]

what if PB still had a ground effect that made anyone entering it get a dot?

[balmy condor]

they increased the tick rate to try and help it out, the full effect doesn't miss, but it's fairly common for things on the edge just to get half the ticks for example. Putting the range up is another solution, but the tldr is just it's very inconsistent

[sharp falcon]

I'll look into what it would take to increase the aoe slightly (assuming and assuring it doesnt break CC), and changing functionally isn't out of the question but it has to be a backlog, low prio, thing

[balmy condor]

you don't really have a control over when it procs or where it places it

[cursive summit]

I think this is a good middle ground?

[hollow escarp]

could also have a visual ground effect while applying poison bomb debuff on target

[balmy condor]

you might tab to a mob on the edge of a pack

and get a proc

and then you're like well great, half this pack just isn't in it

[sharp falcon]

anyone entering the bomb while it's up getting a dot is also an interesting suggestion

i like it even, but still have to set it aside for now

[bleak sky]

[thorny pond]

Make the bomb atomic sometimes and then it covers 50yds

Clipping issues be damned

[sharp falcon]

fel toy but PB

[bleak sky]

Clipping is one of my favorite bands they have no issues

[balmy condor]

make it a poison cloud with verticality and then have it turn the entire instance groups screen green like when you try to go into the blighted lordaeron

fumigate the whole raid

[cursive summit]

lmao

[bleak sky]

mustard gas rogue

[strange python]

[hot chasm]

What about target that gets hit by bomb gets a debuff that radiates dmg to mobs around it, so it kinda follows if the boss moves

[thorny pond]

New horde balancing racial

[hollow escarp]

that's a plague

[versed mica]

If you're undead and PB procs, make you yell dialogue from wrathgate cinematic

[sharp falcon]

🙃

[cursive summit]

Yeah, change it from Poison Bomb to Plague Cloud lul

have it follow the mob it procs on

[balmy condor]

anyways, shitposting aside

please delete ttb do not want ty mr dev

[cursive summit]

whats ttb and whats the problem with it?

[kindred rapids]

have it follow you like a stink cloud

[thorny pond]

Tiny Tim buttons

[sharp falcon]

i'm more interested in tuning it appropriately, and putting it up against a compelling active as a choice node

[versed mica]

Tiny toxic blade

[cursive summit]

oh is that the shiv thing?

[sharp falcon]

moreso than deleting it outright

[toxic locust]

the noodle you press every once in a while does slightly more damage

[subtle tundra]

Omg just like real life

[thorny pond]

Yea current vault Lego

[cursive summit]

I understand

[kindred rapids]

too real?

[versed mica]

Or ttb increasing the poison damage increase debuff by 300%

[hot chasm]

replace it it with bonespike

[bleak sky]

is it out of the question to make ttb buff poisons even further

[toxic locust]

presenting ttb as a passive alternative to a cool active is better than having it be the sole capstone yea

[chilly marsh]

or we forget everything and make ttb do 2000% dmg for the fun

[balmy condor]

yeah I'm only sorta joking about deleting it, but I think the philosophy just is different. I'm just overdosing copium that shiv isn't a utility AND damage button at the same time and that it could still get separated out into toxic blade/shiv like they did with between the eyes/kidney shot

[toxic locust]

realz already said it ain't happening

[cursive summit]

Too much loaded into Shiv

[balmy condor]

yeah

I know

[toxic locust]

down with the copium

[balmy condor]

it makes me sad but it is what it is

[cursive summit]

raid utility, sooth, and dps boost, kinda dodge for a single button

[subtle tundra]

Just not gonna talent into shiv on raging ez

[balmy condor]

I also find it weird that shiv is like a button that does 0 damage and then seeing 500% on the talent tree is just... what?

[cursive summit]

They changed feral spirits because of it being a dps and defensive cd

[thorny pond]

TTB should just empower envenom then to make it ST focused still.

[bleak sky]

delete the soothe and we're good

[balmy condor]

if it's a rotational damage button, then I feel like it should at least do some damage baseline

[cursive summit]

Shiv might get a damage boost in DF, won't know till Alpha, or Realz spills the beans lul

[balmy condor]

right now with tiny toxic it goes from 0 to a million

yeah

[sharp falcon]

If I add another button by splitting them back out again when it was a pretty successful (even if not perfect) change... someone might just throw me out the window

[thorny pond]

Then it’s just a raging blow-esque button for sin

[bleak sky]

was it a successful change though? asking honestly

[sharp falcon]

yes, the moments where it clashes meaningfully are few and far between

[arctic hare]

Can't wait to try out the energy reduction on all of our finishers, gonna be pretty nice

[cursive summit]

Making atrophy poison exempt from shiv would also help

[balmy condor]

I can respect that

but yeah

[sharp falcon]

I personally was just happy for -1 button tbh

[balmy condor]

atrophic would create that clash

much more often

[sharp falcon]

on assassin 99% of the time just used it for amp, even in pvp, cuz how much am i really missing out on? not much

[bleak sky]

Since the introduction of the tier set shiv wasn't really a soothe for sin anymore

[chilly marsh]

i like the -1 button but i hate it when the party need that enrage dispel and i cant because its on cd =/

[sharp falcon]

and other specs it was ignorable unless you just so happened to need to minusEnrage

[kindred rapids]

The only reason it didn't clash more was because you never played sin in M+

[balmy condor]

you also didn't play sin in m+ where you needed the soothe

[hot chasm]

Having to hold shiv during vendetta because a big boss dmg comes 30 sec later

[thorny pond]

But maybe TTB should be an amp to another spell to move the spec towards poison fantasy, opposite the bleed build on the other side of the tree

[gusty mirage]

sounds like they shoulda brought a hunter or druid

[bleak sky]

I sure did bozo

[strange python]

I for one am happy to lose Shiv and gain Garrote on sub

[gusty mirage]

you're a bozo

[bleak sky]

yes?

[toxic locust]

depends on what happens here honestly

[bleak sky]

we can both be bozos there's room for everyone

[balmy condor]

amping what?

[thorny pond]

Counterbalance TTB by being a never used m+ talent such that the soothe portion isn’t impacted

[toxic locust]

if the suggested garrote talents end up making garrote a fun button for outlaw/sub, then i'd rather have that over shiv

[subtle tundra]

Raging shard? Sorry. Dps loss. Wait 10 more seconds.

[balmy condor]

isn't it already a poison button

[gusty mirage]

wanna raid for me tonight, just teleport into my body so we don't break tos

[bleak sky]

buddy I don't want to raid my raid

[sharp falcon]

Personally, yeah that's probably right, my M+ play was mostly Outlaw in SL, sin for raid/pvp (and a lil sub pvp)

[bleak sky]

what makes you think I want to raid yours?

[gusty mirage]

because you love me?

[bleak sky]

I do but that's too much to ask

[strange python]

wdym

[balmy condor]

also I had a fever dream about a choice node between crimson tempest and serrated bone spike

[thorny pond]

I mean it’s hard because we don’t have many poison active buttons. Shiv in raid is never utility but making it impactful in ST with a talent feels awkward. If it’s just utility soothe without the talent then you aren’t missing the damage in m* and can hold for when needed

[balmy condor]

but idk if that's kosher

[bleak sky]

I had tons of fun with sin in season 2, but even then holding shiv felt really bad. Since the tier set introduction it was really really dead.

[cursive summit]

👀

[languid crag]

[gusty mirage]

that'd actually be great for cleave vs aoe situations

[midnight mist]

dont you think its a problem to remove shoothe with the way dg are designed right now ? you almost cant do a dg without the required utility button (thinking shoothe in raging, dispell/decurse), making some classes mandatory for some dg wich feel bad if your party doesnt have one of those class

[bleak sky]

Isn't deathspike riddled with bugs / weird shit

[toxic locust]

if the suggested garrote talents end up making garrote a fun button for outlaw/sub, then i'd rather have that over shiv
if that makes sense?

[gusty mirage]

disenrage?

[granite widget]

shiv is sin only in df?

[toxic locust]

yup

[granite widget]

(tentatively?)

[balmy condor]

yes

[sharp falcon]

for now yes

[subtle tundra]

Good

[versed mica]

I played some sin in M+. It's hard getting yelled at by your warlock for not holding shiv for enrage, saying "you do shit damage anyways just hold it"

[subtle tundra]

Keep it that way thanks

[strange python]

no im like taking garrote even without stuff in my tree for it, and were probably getting interaction with it

garrote sounds sick

[sharp falcon]

but specifically the enrage conversation could change that

[kindred rapids]

tbf, I also meant the plural you. Very few reasons to play sin in M+ over sub or outlaw.

[subtle tundra]

No no no

[balmy condor]

all the outlaw dent brains crying over not being able to sim the perfect condition to use shiv for +0.089% dps in single target

[cursive summit]

mob enrages every dungeon in DF confirmed?

[thorny pond]

It’s called “raging” affix. We have that now

[bleak sky]

sanest sub/outlaw player

[toxic locust]

could it be possible to put shiv on a choice node?

to avoid adding a button

[cursive summit]

ignoring that

[balmy condor]

shiv on a choice node seems hard

[subtle tundra]

I want reasons for assa to be chosen over the other 2 specs

[kindred rapids]

esp when the other specs don't have to worry about holding shiv

[sharp falcon]

possible yes, worthwhile idk

[thorny pond]

Undying rage 2.

[balmy condor]

what would improved shiv do

or tiny toxic

there's talents that depend on that choice

[thorny pond]

Shiv in node then has to be beefy

[cursive summit]

or that super saiyan thing the mobs in gambit use

[thorny pond]

Or be utility only

[subtle tundra]

You stun those bozo

[cursive summit]

not my point haha

but you do, yeah

Undying rage being the premier use for shiv if no druid/hunter

[balmy condor]

man you know the tree is really good when I'm sitting here just thinking about critique about the stuff already brought up and I can't think of anything

what a weird feeling

[cursive summit]

feelsgoodman

[gloomy knoll]

When you envenom a shiv target it shivs 6 near targets for 60% dam and if it doesn’t cuz st then it does 140% it’s normal dam

[strange python]

no the assa tree is fucking amazing lol

first time excited for anything assa

[hot chasm]

Fan of knives needs to be moved tho

[thorny pond]

But anyways, TTB would only be a raiding talent for ST since the other side is M+ focused essentially. Maybe make it have a funnel mechanic? Increased damage for every poisoned target?

[hot chasm]

swap with cut to the chase

[balmy condor]

let the submissives have their funnel

we don't need it too

[strange python]

no

carnage + scent

sounds so sick

and then explode 1 guy

[subtle tundra]

Yea, fok doesn't matter when you play er no seal fate

[subtle tundra]

Sexual

[strange python]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-cum-spongebob-mayo-spongebob-cum-shot-cum-shot-gif-24453237

wait

[chilly marsh]

cant we just change the 20% buff to envenon ? make a aura every 20s your next envenenon is empowered and does 20% more poison dmg. now shiv can be only enraged dispel

[strange python]

lmao that link

[cursive summit]

???

[balmy condor]

interesting embed

[strange python]

LMFAO

i never saw the embed

before

[gloomy knoll]

[thorny pond]

Spit balling. But it needs to add something that impacts ST heavily to counter the utility portion in m+ maybe strip shiv down more, add its dps component to TTB and buff the damage baseline?

[toxic locust]

why did i try to click on this after reading what it said

[cursive summit]

same

curiosity

[strange python]

i thought it was gonna post the gif and saw the embed first time im dying

[sharp falcon]

NSFW channel now? D= aight ttyl

[balmy condor]

[bleak sky]

Now?

Where have you been buddy

[strange python]

you should see this place after hours

[subtle tundra]

NSFW and off topic

[strange python]

horniest spec channel

[lucid birch]

After hours 🙂

[balmy condor]

very NSFW spongebob gif

[hot chasm]

404

[cursive summit]

ye 404'd for me

[strange python]

but ye anyway

[balmy condor]

aight calm down

[strange python]

exsang + dance

sounds too fun man

[bleak sky]

exsang carnage dance yep

[balmy condor]

exsang dance scent carnage

yeh

[sharp falcon]

no changing mind, exsang haters only

[balmy condor]

oh I still hate it

[strange python]

exsang is usually cringe

[cursive summit]

I want exsang to be good

[balmy condor]

don't you worry

[thorny pond]

Bring back legion exsang

[strange python]

but the interaction that it has with dance

[bleak sky]

bad and strong = we take it

[balmy condor]

but I can't deny it sounds really good

[strange python]

I love it so much lol

[thorny pond]

And add Agonizing Poison please

[cursive summit]

legion pre-patch exsang 400% tick rate

[strange python]

condensing your bleeds to fit inside the amp and crit window

while its giving you more energy to fill the globals

so much synergy i love it

[sharp falcon]

ye

[subtle tundra]

[lucid birch]

They love exsang but it’s a forbidden love

[strange python]

please keep that if its the one thing you keep in that tree

[sharp falcon]

and ppl were asking me why i had to go and nerf MA =*(

no choiceeeee

[cursive summit]

i thought MA didn't work with dance?

[balmy condor]

well okay to be completely fair that's on you because MA has never worked in dance

[obtuse robin]

cold blood exsang dance scent carnage. i fixed it

[sharp falcon]

well ok the choice would be going back on having Dance in core tree

[balmy condor]

and you just decided to say haha now it does

[bleak sky]

all in stealth effects work with dance now

[toxic locust]

NO

[cursive summit]

oh lord.

[sharp falcon]

i didn't decide this, it was decided in advance, that's just how dance works

[bleak sky]

[strange python]

is that even an option realistically

[gloomy knoll]

Ayo

[strange python]

removing dance off class tree

[gloomy knoll]

That’s pog

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

feel like you would have to completely remake all of the trees

[gloomy knoll]

Wait so does subterfuge work with dance then

[cursive summit]

keep dance

[sharp falcon]

i adjusted MA accordingly, but misjudged stealth poisons tbh

[balmy condor]

no

[cursive summit]

stealth poisons strong?

[hot chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/why-whatever-gif-23592041

[bleak sky]

in stealth, not exiting stealth

[gloomy knoll]

Ah gotcha

[sharp falcon]

do you mean the "garrote dmg while stealthed" part? if so, yes

[balmy condor]

"in stealth" = dance
"after stealth" = no

[kindred rapids]

exiting dance then?

[sharp falcon]

if you mean the "3 sec after leaving stealth" then no, because you're leaving Dance, not Stealth

[cursive summit]

dance ending = after stealth?

ahh

[balmy condor]

so now dance is just like vendetta but a buff on your character, but also 30% crit

[toxic locust]

the cooler vendetta

[lucid birch]

That’s insane

[cursive summit]

dance kinda OP

[balmy condor]

30% buff for 9 second every minute
30% debuff for 20 seconds every 2 minutes

[spice spire]

Vendetta was just the dance we have at home

[balmy condor]

minor technicalities

[sharp falcon]

Shadow Dance has always read that it grants all combat bonuses of Stealth

well not literally always

[balmy condor]

yeah and then it didn't do it

[sharp falcon]

but in this case i mean the most recent version

[balmy condor]

[chilly marsh]

buff dance to 10s to balance the universe

[toxic locust]

dance and deathmark are both missing something crucial: letting you see stealthed targets

[sharp falcon]

I already gave the +1 sec baked in to core dance wtf

from 8 to 9

[cursive summit]

Dance is already insane

[balmy condor]

okay 12 seconds and we have a deal

[spice spire]

Give me perma dance please

I’d like to be rping on council of blood 24/7

[lucid birch]

Let’s give mutilate and ambush an execute component too

[sharp falcon]

but yeah final tuning TBD on everything, not to say I want to take away fun but obviously if some interaction makes that build 600% better than all other builds, something has to change

[bleak sky]

quiet monk

[balmy condor]

that's called blindside

[spice spire]

Of course, if we were omega OP, then we were hypocrites for clowning warlocks

[cursive summit]

I can see Sin doing ridic dps with the current talents

[strange python]

im still waiting for some outlaw rogues to rationalize 100% dance uptime

[sharp falcon]

if rogue is doing great dps i'm pretty happy

[hot chasm]

This is normal wow balancing

[gloomy knoll]

Hopefully it’s tuned well but regardless sin looks fun

[sharp falcon]

this might as well already be dead

[gleaming fable]

not again pls

[strange python]

LOL

[spice spire]

LMFAO

[cursive summit]

[obtuse robin]

they to busy thinking the world is over with restless crew

[cursive summit]

Outlaw in shambles

[strange python]

wdym restless crew is their saving grace

[gleaming fable]

Dancelaw without dance on RB is still going to be cracked with current talents

[strange python]

their pass into the raid

[sharp falcon]

sub should have the most uptime, most flexible Dance

[spice spire]

that’s what I like to hear

[chilly marsh]

if you win the stormwind AH dance day you should have 100% dance for that week :p

[strange python]

my guild already telling me im relegated to outlaw to simp

[sharp falcon]

yeah, i think there's plenty of incentive to try a build for it without needing it on RB

[gloomy knoll]

Lmao

[obtuse robin]

law chat thinks it will to to good so = low dps to balance or it will be tuned to weak and then dead talent

[balmy condor]

thoughts on triple covenant, zero dance sub?

[cursive summit]

👀

[sharp falcon]

missing a cov

[balmy condor]

well

that's your fault

[strange python]

okay no

[sharp falcon]

howdare

[strange python]

keep spike out of sub

[subtle tundra]

My only problem with stealth effects is that usually bcs outlaw can get them more often, they are quite weak(vanish legendaries currently). Don't think it will be a problem though cause it's just assa only stuff now.

[balmy condor]

if you would've given me a fourth covenant

I would've done it

[sharp falcon]

spikers no spiking (in sub) got it

[cursive summit]

spikes potentially returning?

[sharp falcon]

idk

[chilly marsh]

about coves theres a reason why spike didnt make the cut realz?

[strange python]

unless you like make it 1 use every 1 min and it does a bunch of cool stuff

but that button was really bad in subs rotation in SL

[gloomy knoll]

Spike was pretty buggy

[strange python]

it was basically -backstab +spike use

not very epic

[sharp falcon]

the reason I left it out is mostly because of flavor, partly because of very tricky bugs

[lucid birch]

Work smarter not harder I like it

[hot chasm]

Removing spikes totally would be a travesty, most fun covenant

[strange python]

careful you'll summon seliathan speaking of spike bugs

[balmy condor]

no shot he's still awake

[fair current]

spike always felt like it had the least interplay with any of the rogue specs

[strange python]

seli when he hears spike bugs

[fair current]

it just existed as a cool aoe bleed

it didnt really interact, assass prob had the most interaction

[balmy condor]

spike is also by far the most beloved covenant

[strange python]

i disagree it mostly didnt work in sub

[fair current]

i was a little surprised not to see it assass specific and sepsis everywhere

[strange python]

it flurried in outlaw and was good cp gen and assa had the whole bleed thing going

[fair current]

i dont mean didnt work, i just mean didnt interact

[sharp falcon]

Sepsis, ER, and Flag (well, for Sub only) all are pretty reasonable things to carry on post-SL as something that still feels vaguely Rogue-ish, fantasy-wise

[fair current]

like it worked for outlaw

but all it did was make you SS less, which made you interplay with ur normal leggos less

gave you less procs

[subtle tundra]

I hate it. It's only tolerable now cause of unity

[fair current]

thats what i mean

it was a fun spell

[toxic locust]

realz, i know this is outlaw and not sin, but isn't dreadblades gonna be kinda... dead without flagellation?

[cursive summit]

could you not just rename it? Like Outlaw got animacharged combopoints without having ER?

[gleaming fable]

can we get flag to give a different stat than haste tho pls ❤️

[sharp falcon]

but SBS is like... a bone spike? I don't get it, that's a huge divergence. I get it though, it was my favorite to play with, all were decent but it was my fave

[lucid birch]

I didn’t really want to see this many covs making it to DF period tbh

[toxic locust]

i think they're fine

[obtuse robin]

it fits the undead rogue fantasy which seems to potray rogue aslot

[lucid birch]

Thought it would be like a handful lol

[storm onyx]

SbS turns spec quite spammy; tbf one slower spec out of 3 is nice

[toxic locust]

ER especially added very nice gameplay

[hot chasm]

Throwing a big spike at someone that puts an eternal debuff feels kinda assasinationy

[sharp falcon]

I've heard this concern, it resonates, but I have to think about it more and ask around as well. It would make more sense for the talent tree version since it's in Sub only, but my hesitation is making two different versions... they should continue to mostly match 1-to-1 whether you are currently in the SL or not

[fair current]

i think moving animacharged cps onto several other sources was pretty cool

Er in the class tree feels pretty weird tho

[gloomy knoll]

Meh I’m tired of Er

[fair current]

maybe its just cause subs giving everyone dance

very kind of them

[hot chasm]

Wait, flag gives haste, when did Sub need much haste

[balmy condor]

if we're gonna move into just sub talk

I would prefer if it moved into the right channel

[gloomy knoll]

It doesn’t that’s just what flag has always done

[sharp falcon]

the mechanical identity is a fine match, but a bone spike is so specifically SL and hard to imagine as a core Rogue fantasy. That said, the whole idea of retaining Cov abils is "learned from the denizens of the SL" so in a way... why not SBS, regardless of what it is? Still thinking about it, probably as a choice node vs Sepsis if anywhere

[balmy condor]

so it's not invisible to people who don't care about sin

I know it's hard though

conversation and all that

[toxic locust]

personally while i can see sepsis and flag as rogue spells, echoing reprimand seems more kyrian than rogue

so i think SBS also being there wouldn't be too much of a concern for me

[subtle tundra]

Nooooooo stop making him put sbs in the tree

Nooooo

[fair current]

ER really sticks out to me. maybe just because its in the class tree and a capstone

[subtle tundra]

😭

[fair current]

feels very odd there

[lucid birch]

If ashen makes into DF I will scream

[gloomy knoll]

You can just not pick it

Lol

[strange python]

its a choice node

[fair current]

moving animacharged cps to spec specific abilities seemed like the good choice for sure

[strange python]

just... dont take it?

[sharp falcon]

Ppl won't have to take it... cept u, I will make u take it. What's ur BNET ID again?

[fair current]

ip locked to SBS

[chilly marsh]

talking about echoing... realz give us back Echoing Blades !

[fair current]

😰

[subtle tundra]

I will cry

[balmy condor]

that's probably dead

[subtle tundra]

Brb

[balmy condor]

there's a lot of fok buff already

and carnage exists

[strange python]

carnage>echoing blades

[chilly marsh]

Echoing Blades >> flying dagger!

[sharp falcon]

echoing blades was 3 funky 5 me

[strange python]

but the sound effect

[toxic locust]

echoing blades was awesome but yeah

[gloomy knoll]

But engaging gameplay like spam fok no finishers

[subtle tundra]

It's fine. I can play my no seal fate + er + shadow dance build anyways

[balmy condor]

all gas no brakes

[storm onyx]

SBS transforms the spec very spammy; we already have 2 very high apm specs; 1 slower spec makes sense. Also Flag for Asssination felt the best even with no obedience

[bleak sky]

you really chasing that 1k io huh

rank 15000 sin enjoyer

[chilly marsh]

legion fok rogue LOL they needed to do a enermegency buff to mut xD

using fok st was fun for the 2 days it lasted lol

[balmy condor]

no no no don't say this he'll bring hidden blades back from the depths of hell

Hidden blades most powerful row of talents is the darkest timeline

current tree is the light

[strange python]

[sharp falcon]

I loved it, I know I'm not alone, and that doesn't invalidate your position... no Cov abil was a 100% win. Even if it returns (very uncertain), it will be off the main highways and/or a choice node, and so very optional. Trying to permit some amount of preference is an important part of the trees in general, hopefully more than 1 such preference gets to all 'win'

[toxic locust]

tbh it'd just be satisfying to have all 4 covenant abilities as part of the class

[balmy condor]

yeah it would really help my ocd

[hot chasm]

Didnt really feel SBS made assa more spammy imo so I would love to have it as a choice

[sharp falcon]

Sub potentially having 3 at the same time already discomforts me, though

[toxic locust]

covenant master

[sharp falcon]

I think Assassin is the only one that i'm even remotely considering adding SBS to, and only as a choice against another Cov abil

[toxic locust]

honestly, i'm completely fine with that

[balmy condor]

sub having 3 at the same time is thematic, we defeated the jailer and are now using the newfound power of the combined shadowlands to overcome the newest threats in the world

[fair current]

sub won shadowlands is what ur saying

the devs are telling us

[lucid birch]

Silence @balmy condor

You are silly

[strange python]

overcome the threat of having a low amount of keybinds?

[subtle tundra]

They get to keep sylvanas daggers

[fair current]

true actually when sub is still using s4 sylv daggers in the next raid tier

all the theme will fit

blizzard is 4d chessing that spec

[balmy condor]

I think ER/SBS choice would be pretty compelling for what it's worth

[strange python]

ER for assa?

[balmy condor]

I don't think there's much in the way of current trees that are hyping up ER

[strange python]

or in the gen tree

[chilly marsh]

how said we will not use sylv dagger in DF ?

[balmy condor]

gen tree

[strange python]

ye i can see that

[gloomy knoll]

Remove flag and give an ability that soaks finishers and explodes pls

[sharp falcon]

SHADOWBOMB

[balmy condor]

soul cap enjoyers

[gloomy knoll]

Ayo that sounds lit

[balmy condor]

[gloomy knoll]

I like this guy

[strange python]

nah thats too good to be true

[fair current]

wait thats the truest statement

[strange python]

[fair current]

soul cap 🤤

[sharp falcon]

but no, not today, it's an idea though

[fair current]

what you really need is two of those explosions, one a cd one rng

[balmy condor]

soul cap was a very balanced trinket with no issues at all

[gloomy knoll]

[fair current]

so you can get the legendary ring soul cap thrilling gameplay

[sharp falcon]

also Sub channel --->

[gloomy knoll]

Lol

[strange python]

exsang channel

[balmy condor]

damn realz, you should have my job

[sharp falcon]

no pls, im stressed enough =p

[hot chasm]

Sub channel is

[balmy condor]

I just called being a discord mod a job

oh god

it's happening

[strange python]

nothing to discuss

all the issues are known

[sharp falcon]

perfect Sub trees, ez

[toxic locust]

but what can we discuss about sin

[strange python]

perfect

[balmy condor]

sin tree is good

we just like talking to realz

[sharp falcon]

sin tree is only good when VW moves up the tree

what a blunder

[chilly marsh]

sin tree is good but have ttb :p

[balmy condor]

implied change

[strange python]

i like how sin tree is like actually immaculate

[hot chasm]

longer bleed times so I don't have to refresh all the time. 4set have given me reapply PTSD

[strange python]

and people crying about ttb

[toxic locust]

there are two things to cry about

[strange python]

hurts my soul

[toxic locust]

and those are ttb and the lack of a certain bane

[balmy condor]

ttb is the stain on your table that you can't get rid of

and once you see it

you just can't un-see it

[strange python]

just ignore it

[chilly marsh]

i mean rogue is in a good spot

[strange python]

your gameplay is shaping up to be absolutely godly fun

[gloomy knoll]

Sins never looked more fun

[chilly marsh]

i like both tree can only complain about ttb and tea

[balmy condor]

I'm greedy though

[gloomy knoll]

Imo

[toxic locust]

how can i have fun when every time i hit shiv i remember i had to talent into ttb

[gloomy knoll]

No cap best iteration of sin

[chilly marsh]

if we can fix ttb and tea on rogue tree i think its perfect

[toxic locust]

oh yea tea

it sucks

[hot chasm]

Only there for nostalgic reasons

[chilly marsh]

ideas : ttb> kingsbane
tea >> ?

[toxic locust]

tea >> shadow dance again

[sharp falcon]

sin tree was first to get made so it had most time to marinate and get feedback + iterations, outlaw 2nd and most time spent overall on the design side, and sub was last but got more design collab time

[balmy condor]

we ask daps what to do with tea

[sharp falcon]

tea is a good topic

[balmy condor]

daps I heard has all the answers

[bleak sky]

[balmy condor]

delete this

[hot chasm]

Tea could increase energy restoration instead of flat amount, but then its just adrenaline rush

[bleak sky]

[chilly marsh]

tea > spike ? LOL

[sharp falcon]

my current thought is wait and see and hope tuning with existing knobs is all it needs... but if absolutely necessary, another layer to the effect is possible

nah i don't think that's the play

[subtle tundra]

Tea? More like pee

[strange python]

lil damage amp after you use tea

mayhaps

[toxic locust]

that's boring tho

[strange python]

it is

[subtle tundra]

Too many buttons already

[strange python]

idk how else to help it though

[toxic locust]

it's mututally exclusive to dance

or at least it should be

[balmy condor]

make tea give you an increased maximum for a short period

[toxic locust]

i think if it had another effect it should also be related to energy

[chilly marsh]

im trying to remmeber some old rogue skill we could replace tea

[balmy condor]

like you drink tea

[sharp falcon]

this was one i considered

[balmy condor]

and then you start tripping actual balls

with 1000 energy

[toxic locust]

so like, baking vigor into it kinda?

[sharp falcon]

probably not literally 1000 but this is definitely one direction i considered (am considering?) if it becomes necessary

[storm onyx]

Adds to the pool instead of replenishes it? interesting

[hot chasm]

Tea makes it so abilities dont use energy for x amount of seconds

[toxic locust]

nahh

[gleaming fable]

It would do both

[subtle tundra]

Yea but what do you do with all that energy if you're capped anyways

[chilly marsh]

but that is like vigor too

[balmy condor]

[languid crag]

free abilities is spookers

[hot chasm]

gcd will still limit you kinda

[gloomy knoll]

Could make tea consume energy to give dam instead

[toxic locust]

no that's not thistle tea then

[strange python]

maybe tea shorten your gcd's for a bit?

[balmy condor]

thistle tea a gcd reduction

[strange python]

great minds

think alike

[bleak sky]

[sharp falcon]

I like this concept (but agree with the below, misplaced)

[hot chasm]

gcd removal

[bleak sky]

gcd reduction

[gloomy knoll]

Or make it increase energy costs for dam

Since deathmark gives energy anyways

[strange python]

that might just like

brick a lot of things lol

[balmy condor]

make thistle tea do the temporal speed up effect from chronomatic anomaly and elisande from nighthold

[gloomy knoll]

Could be

[balmy condor]

ez done

[sharp falcon]

there are some specs that have overflow energy moments and I was trying to come up with an energy-dump effect targeted for those builds... but it's hard to make it feel right, it might spend when you don't want it to, or not spend when you do want it to, etc

[languid crag]

Just make it give you a hat, cane, and monocle so you become a proper fellow drinking tea.

[gloomy knoll]

Yo that mechanic was so fun lol

[chilly marsh]

Hemorrhage

what about a kind of Hemorrhage?

[toxic locust]

hemo sounds like the name of a garrote talent

[subtle tundra]

Extra energy spending for aoe where you have infinite energy

[hot chasm]

Prolly some thorghast ability we can make tea do instead

[lucid birch]

Hemorrhage sounds like a synonym for exsanguinate

[chilly marsh]

Rips a gushing wound in the target, dealing (104% of weapon damage) Physical damage and increasing Bleed damage from your abilities on the target by 25% for 20 sec.

[toxic locust]

i dunno i like the idea of thistle increasing your energy cap

[languid crag]

letting you gen energy past the cap and giving you some sort of bonus while above the cap idk

[chilly marsh]

could be used to make new builds work

exang + Hemorrhage

could open ways

[balmy condor]

I'm scared about this being actually dumb op

[cursive summit]

Remove damage boost from shiv bring back hemo

[balmy condor]

seal fate is basically required m+ for us

[gleaming fable]

that would probably only be good for assassin specs though, it needs to be general enough for all rogue specs to use

[balmy condor]

and tea is then 1 point

[languid crag]

Think the bonus would have to be fairly minor

[balmy condor]

and you press carnage

and then like

huge

[languid crag]

but sufficient to warrant the point

hard balance

[balmy condor]

yeah the issue is anything that's rewarding based on energy sucks in single target when you have none, but is crazy in aoe right

[hot chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/experimenting-origins-explained-laboratory-mixing-chemicals-scientific-testing-gif-17222519

[languid crag]

Yea exactly

[hot chasm]

this is us making this trea

[storm onyx]

oh no, no hemorrhage

[hot chasm]

tea*

[gloomy knoll]

I don’t wanna drink whatever tea they serve at your house

[hot chasm]

Its adding the thistle

[fair current]

every 100 energy overcapped brews you some thistle tea

that you can drink whenever to regen energy over time

[balmy condor]

yeah

something like that

[rose narwhal]

Make envenom one of those new hold-down buttons that dumps more energy + gets more damage if you want an energy dump button

[fair current]

recycled tea

[balmy condor]

would be ass in single target

[fair current]

already been genned tea

[gloomy knoll]

Thistle good for the liver

[hot chasm]

instead of overcap, it brews after x amount of combo points spent

[gloomy knoll]

:nodders:

[balmy condor]

that wouldn't change the issue of aoe

it's already useless energy gain in aoe

would be a single target only talent

[toxic locust]

not the worst thing in the world?

[balmy condor]

but we already are questioning whether seal fate is worth in single target with dance existing

you can't get both

which I guess is fine

but idk, doesn't seem that great

also would make thistle really strong for a spec that generates more cp

(every other spec)

[gloomy knoll]

Would be bussin for sub

Could maybe use some of our symbols overflow

[languid crag]

Maybe further specialize it for ST?

something involving only ST finishers maybe?

[subtle tundra]

One of my big problems with how things might end up is that we will have to sacrifice a lot of ST for aoe

Which would suck big time

[hot chasm]

Thing with the trees is that you spec for the situations

[chilly marsh]

red ink from torgash

[subtle tundra]

Yea and in m+ there's aoe and st

[hot chasm]

Tyrannical weeks to go more ST heavy, and more AoE heavy other

[languid crag]

it's fine to lose out on one to make the other stronger

[subtle tundra]

I don't think you really can

[languid crag]

Just as long as the loss isn't horrible

[subtle tundra]

If the st dps is balanced around a shadow dance build which you can't do in m+ then you might end up in a situation with horrible st in m+

[languid crag]

Have to think beyond raw dam in most situations, numbers are easily tuned

mechanical stuff is where we're at atm

[subtle tundra]

Easy to say but balancing numbers isn't blizzards strong point

[languid crag]

Ok fair but even so, numbers can't be focused on atm

[hot chasm]

Looking at the trees I feel i have more options for speccing towards the different dungeons then before

[storm onyx]

if bulk dmg is squeezed in 9 secs; then it would feel quite off yea

[hot chasm]

Not really worried we will have to be a brick in ST to do good AoE or the other way around

[subtle tundra]

Well, im just voicing my concerns cause if you want to go aoe you might have to go full aoe build to do decent aoe and not have any st afterwards

[sharp falcon]

aight im out, prob read more later

[languid crag]

it's been... real...z

[hot chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpsons-see-ya-later-retire-away-gif-11940513

[languid crag]

I'll see myself out

[chilly marsh]

good night realz

[eager plaza]

hey in m+ do you maintain CT on single target? and do you envenom with 4 cp to avoid over capping?

[bleak sky]

finish at max-1

use ct on single target, yes

[oak sky]

@bleak sky is it weird that im just vibing out the reclear and not going for logs n shit

[bleak sky]

nah you're having fun

enjoy it

[oak sky]

its probably my last raid with the boys

[bleak sky]

I was in raid rn but had to quit because wow is fucking lagging

[oak sky]

https://tenor.com/view/feelsstrongman-motivating-happy-pepe-clap-gif-20345482

[bleak sky]

normal ms, giga lag

half my gcds missing very pog

[brazen zodiac]

minal!

[bleak sky]

pour one out for the boys

waddup vita

[brazen zodiac]

relearning rogue xDD

[bleak sky]

[oak sky]

low key i have tomorrow too so its allg

[cedar otter]

is the skill] damages right ? it was a +15 mists

[balmy condor]

rupture looks kinda low

other than that looks good yeah

[viscid spear]

[meager granite]

Hey whispyr, i was going through the talent spreadsheet you made. Don't you thin that the tree 2 you designed will end up making you very energy starved out of deathmark/exsang window?

[viscid spear]

Make em bleed

[balmy condor]

raid tree 2?

[balmy condor]

yeah

that gets energy from vigorous wounds and dashing with double poisons

[meager granite]

but very low CP generation due to not having sealed fate, so means higher usage of mutilate incurring highher energy usage

[storm onyx]

Will double poisons trigger double VW?

[balmy condor]

venomous wounds is bleed ticks on poisoned enemies

not poison ticks on bleeded enemy

[storm onyx]

ah ah, yea, got confused a sec

[balmy condor]

maybe yeah, but dance is every minute so I don't think it's too bad

the entire idea is big burst

so much of your damage is poisons/bleeds

as long as you can sustain dots and get an envenom every now and then

shouldn't be an issue

[meager granite]

if the idea is for burst only i get it