assassination

[oak sky]

If it was great where was the conduit energy

Checkmate boomer

[gusty mirage]

I can’t take anymore boring tundra

[oak sky]

Definitely not playing wrath classic

[gusty mirage]

I might just to try to hit 80 and do the 5s arena shenanigans again

But chances are I’ll get to level 20 and quit like I did in regular classic

[spice spire]

Same

[gusty mirage]

Plus sin in wrath required extra hit rating for poisons

And that my friends is a yikers

[spice spire]

Wrath is the first expansion I missed altogether

[grizzled jay]

i basically skipped 80% of wod

[gusty mirage]

Check it out, experiencing ICC in wrath is sick

[oak sky]

I would only play if they made it to like mop

[grizzled jay]

did like first tier then was done

[gusty mirage]

Besides boring tundra, every other zone was really cool

[spice spire]

I skipped 100% of wod, 90% of legion, 75% of Bfa

[hollow river]

and 200% of shadowlands

[gusty mirage]

Just pretend nax didn’t exist as a raid and wrath was insanely good

[hollow river]

[gusty mirage]

Ulduar probably one of the best raids they ever made tbh

[spice spire]

I never got to do nax. Took a break after aq 40 (middle school) and never did it in wrath

[gusty mirage]

Yeah then you’d like wrath

[oak sky]

Took a break in aq40 (preschool)

[gusty mirage]

Nax was cool the first time around

[spice spire]

Don’t remind me agreon

[oak sky]

Stay woke

[gusty mirage]

You weren’t even alive when aq came out

[oak sky]

Yeah i was

[spice spire]

Oh no

[gusty mirage]

Do you know how much fucking runecloth I farmed

[spice spire]

I’d believe it

[oak sky]

I dont know what runecloth is

[gusty mirage]

I also farmed darnassus rep to get the sabers on my priest

I was a masochist

[oak sky]

Bro I'm older than wow ok

[gusty mirage]

You ever think how different your life would be without wow?

[oak sky]

Yes

[spice spire]

I’d literally have the cure for cancer

[gusty mirage]

Isn’t it crazy that this game brought you together with so many people?

[spice spire]

It truly is

[gusty mirage]

I’m still friends with my old GM/RL from vanilla

[spice spire]

I’m still friends with guildies way back when

[gusty mirage]

He’s married with 2 kids now. It’s crazy

[spice spire]

My oldest is cata

[gusty mirage]

He was like 3 years older than me lol

[oak sky]

[gusty mirage]

Meanwhile my ass is arguing with toddlers in ravenholdt

Yikes

[oak sky]

Hey

[spice spire]

Bro I turn 30 in a few weeks

Chill

[oak sky]

You guys only have like 10 years on me

We're practically in the same generation

[gusty mirage]

You never told me what you wanted for your birthday

[hollow river]

damn bro you were raiding like that in middle school?

[gusty mirage]

Didn’t your generation eat tide pods?

[spice spire]

Bill dipperly

[hollow river]

i was a clicker and all i could manage was pvp content and dungeons

[spice spire]

World peace. Or your practice to get a nice bit of business

[oak sky]

.

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-tears-tearyeyed-about-to-cry-gif-4917303

[hollow river]

jeez he could've asked for 1 million dabloons

[spice spire]

I raided with a laptop trackpad until I returned in 8.3.
Did heroic throne + vaults + BT 25, Aq 40 all working a trackpad

[hollow river]

how wholesome

[gusty mirage]

I’d give him everything he’d ask for. That’s my homie

Can’t wait to come visit for the wedding

[spice spire]

It’ll be a good time

[jaunty crystal]

Tfw 31 but didnt play until bfa 😦

[spice spire]

Official Proposal in October

[hollow river]

[gusty mirage]

I may have a plus one if things continue going well

[spice spire]

She gonna be surprised

[balmy condor]

world peace of deez nuts in your mouth

[spice spire]

Good stuff oxi

[spice spire]

That’s a good gift too

Bozo, get bent

[gusty mirage]

We need to @balmy condor to come out for it

[balmy condor]

you look like a farm hand on ketamine

[spice spire]

???

[gusty mirage]

Watch him get hammered and babysit him all night

[spice spire]

You’ve seen one photo of me ever hungover?

[gusty mirage]

Nothing in this sentence refuted his comment

[spice spire]

I don’t look like I do ketamine?

[gusty mirage]

I’ve never seen said photo

[balmy condor]

correct

[oak sky]

Thats so pog

[balmy condor]

you look like a farmhand who does

that's the difference

[spice spire]

No man

[gusty mirage]

He’s got you there

[spice spire]

I’ll farm your hand ong

[balmy condor]

do you have a drawl quake

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

You’ve been in VC with me

You tell me

[lunar gorge]

Hey. Im starting to play Assas but I feel like I might be missing something. Im kinda torn on what cov to go and the correct talents for tyran vs Fort

[oak sky]

Bro its the hookworms talking

[spice spire]

I think I don’t but the EU brothers think I do

[balmy condor]

always the same, always venth

[gusty mirage]

Damn whispyr beat me to it

I’m washed

[spice spire]

Hi, have you checked any guides out? If not they’re incredible helpful! I don’t mean a cop out answer, but it’ll always be venthyr, and essentially the same bones with a few changes. If you type !guide in chat there are three that help!

There’s also an insanely helpful #assassination-faq for some basic stuff 🙂

[lunar gorge]

I checked the FAQ and tried to look at pinned but nothing there 😦

[spice spire]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[lunar gorge]

My DPS is alright, my priority damage seems to be pretty good but my Overall is just not there 😦

[spice spire]

Pins are more for LATEST information.

[balmy condor]

so you're playing assassination?

[lunar gorge]

@balmy condor yes.

[balmy condor]

checks out

[gusty mirage]

Damn. This hurts because it’s true

[spice spire]

In keys that’s pretty normal; assassination is in its worst spot this xpac (outside of 9.0)

In m+

[lunar gorge]

im 262 with 4 set and i did 11k Overall in a 15

[gusty mirage]

Yeah sin is by far the most complex for less damage than the other 2 specs in m+

[oak sky]

I'm gonna be a slammer in df

[spice spire]

That’s about right, maybe slightly low, but it’s not like horrendously off

[oak sky]

Catch me getting the rank 1 title

[gusty mirage]

Like you’re putting in a lot more work for less damage than sub which is easier to play in keys

[balmy condor]

doing X damage in a random pug 15 depends on way too many factors but this doesn't seem too terrible

[spice spire]

Big thing is you want subterfuge and CT in keys.

[balmy condor]

yeh

you get 3 garrotes from stealth

focus whatever you vendetta

multi dot otherwise

and then cry cause you don't do aoe damage

that's the sin m+ experience

[lunar gorge]

Master poisoner okay? I feel i did more with that over EP

[balmy condor]

master poisoner very bad

[spice spire]

It’s tuned pretty low this xpac

[lunar gorge]

L

[spice spire]

I’d still recommend ep personally

[lunar gorge]

So i assume im doing something wrong with that being my 2nd overall DPS

[balmy condor]

they do the same thing except one does it better

[balmy condor]

poisons are your second highest?

[lunar gorge]

Sadly

[balmy condor]

[lunar gorge]

I can show u the breakdown if u want

[balmy condor]

sure

[hollow river]

garrote should def be higher

[spice spire]

You’re not garroting enough

[balmy condor]

and rupture

[lunar gorge]

Cries

[hollow river]

and rupture too tbh

[balmy condor]

and melee

why is fan so high

what

[spice spire]

Tabnstäb is an accurate description

[hollow river]

because he got 1 cp every time the entire dungeon whispyr

[lunar gorge]

Prob because i wasn't tab target garrotes 😦

[balmy condor]

fan of knives is like CRAZY high

[drowsy crescent]

would prefer that melee (Loyal Stoneborn) be much higher

[hollow river]

biggest thing for assa is spread bleeds

[lunar gorge]

Im used to sub rotation so that could be why sadge

[balmy condor]

typically it's between 7 and 8% here's it's 11.5

[spice spire]

Yeah yeah

[lunar gorge]

I press to make crimson tempest go br

[balmy condor]

are you using fan on 2 targets?

[lunar gorge]

No

4+

[balmy condor]

excuse me

[spice spire]

3+ now

[balmy condor]

you're using it LESS than you should

[spice spire]

With that GIGA buff, it’s better on 3+

[hollow river]

overcapping combo points maybe?

[lunar gorge]

Yo yo yo don't @ me like that

[balmy condor]

and it's still so high

[spice spire]

No you’re good!

Better to ask and learn than always play incorrectly 🙂

[hollow river]

are you going to 5 combo points every time? @lunar gorge

[spice spire]

It’s definitely not the sun life

[lunar gorge]

Yes

[hollow river]

or are you stopping at 4 and using a finisher

[lunar gorge]

I overcap a little

[hollow river]

you should be stopping

[lunar gorge]

NGl

[hollow river]

max or max -1 combo points

try not to overcap if you can

[balmy condor]

I think the main thing is probably more melee hits, maintain slice and dice if you aren't, and tabbing more garrotes and ruptures

when vend/flag is up, just pump single target

[spice spire]

You’re constantly fanning, tabbing m, garroting when you can, and finishing when at max-1, usually rupture, you’ll maintain CT as a dot, and extend snds with envenom

[lunar gorge]

My slice and dice was 70% uptime

I have a 229 wep aswell, so that is probably a problem for melee hits

[balmy condor]

should be closer to like 97

[cedar otter]

one question guys : shiv on CD or wait a little to cast it with vendetta

?

[balmy condor]

on cd

[grizzled jay]

you only sync very last vendetta if boss is gonna die in that vendetta iirc

[lunar gorge]

What keeps S&D rolling tho?

[hollow river]

envenom

[grizzled jay]

cut to the chase

[spice spire]

Cut to the chase

[lunar gorge]

Oh

[grizzled jay]

our passive we've had since Cata

[spice spire]

Envenoming

[grizzled jay]

[spice spire]

We didn’t have snd for a while 🤨

[hollow river]

ahem

[grizzled jay]

:oldge:

[balmy condor]

and it was passive in wod

[spice spire]

And it was t reintroduced until 9.0.5

[lunar gorge]

Should I be spending a lot of CP on evenom?

[hollow river]

9.0 sad days

[grizzled jay]

you should look to keep 100% uptime on your 3 dots and then spend extras on Envenom

[spice spire]

Nah, just to extend snd as needed

And as a dump on st when your dots are good, and you’ve nothing else to do

[lunar gorge]

In ST is it Prio after Dots?

Ah okay

[grizzled jay]

prio envenom if snd is about to fall off

[lunar gorge]

Even over Dots?

[grizzled jay]

especially over crimson tempest ye

[lunar gorge]

Is it Stupid to put CT on a boss?

[spice spire]

No

[grizzled jay]

CT is good once you have 4-pc and double leggo

[ebon notch]

wait but snd in packs is not prio

[spice spire]

If you’re talented into CT, you want to maintain CT period

[ebon notch]

hold on i didnt read

and typed before i didnt read

im sry

[spice spire]

[lunar gorge]

Sounds like I got some work to do 🙂

Stat prio crit haste?

[grizzled jay]

haste raid crit m+

[hollow river]

a little mastery is good too

just sim yourself

sin kinda wants a mixture of all 4 stats but agility>all

don't prio lower ilvl gear just because of secondaries

[lunar gorge]

so uhhh, my SIM tells me to press ambush. Is that true?

[balmy condor]

technically yes

I wouldn't worry about it too much

[ebon notch]

i worry about you too much

[balmy condor]

same

[midnight reef]

Hows Sin doing in raids?

[balmy condor]

good

[midnight reef]

All i needed to hear 🙂

[slow marsh]

hi you are all cute

that's all

bye

[lucid brook]

o/ is garrote a part of normal dps rotation or is it more of a stealth opener against casters?

[oak sky]

you want to maintain garrote since its a dot

i would suggest checking out the #assassination-faq channel and the guides

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[midnight reef]

Sub or sin for raids?

Which is easier to handle?

[lucid brook]

Ooh so it's a separate bleed from rupture.. got ya

[balmy condor]

Completely depends on the person and how comfortable you are with either

Sin is generally better

[lucid brook]

Personally outlaw confuses me more often than not.. having to use a buff to do AoE? o.O

[balmy condor]

I feel like that’s the easiest part of outlaw

Press button, get aoe

[lucid brook]

I've been playing fury warrior for so long that my muscle memory is set lol, so not having a "spin fast do dmg" button is weird

[echo patrol]

Outlaw has so much other buttons to press and things to deal with, you will be very thankful that you don't need to change your rotation for multiple targets.

[balmy condor]

And then you equip blunderbuss

[velvet ridge]

lethal dose and vicious venoms are my 2 favorite talents, more of those plz dev thx

[deft flicker]

That's exactly what blade flurry does, you just press it less often

[lucid brook]

But it's not a spin2win attack like shuriken storm or fan of blades ;c

[tame stump]

We have like 15 other buttons to press that all do AOE damage, though

Technically, Blade Rush makes you spin and does AOE

[deft flicker]

Roll the Bones is our spin2win

[rocky sluice]

for cache trinket, do you want haste or wand? for pure ST

[balmy condor]

neither

!cache

[prisma monolith]

Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand

[rocky sluice]

oh okie

use axe on mythic jailer prog then?

[balmy condor]

always

[rocky sluice]

thanks

[balmy condor]

np

[strange python]

Do you guys know if we can like ...
Make a build in Dragonflight, and then SAVE that build so we can just revert to it later?
Such as: one named Raid, one named M+, one named PVP?

[late birch]

Yes, I do believe so

[strange python]

I really hope so

[late birch]

I think a picture showing something like that was shown during the announcement

[strange python]

good...I couldn't imagine trying to remember what all points to change on the fly...since I change up what content I'm doing so often.

[late birch]

Yep, it would be insane if blizzard didnt include that into the talent system

[midnight mist]

yeah they said we will be able to save and share "loadouts"

[strange python]

Awesome, thanks

[late birch]

Can anyone clarify what makes going shadow dance so strong for the new talent system, is the one charge with no CDR on it still good?

Or is it just for the application of Find Weakness?

[balmy condor]

Dance is 10% damage amp, nightstalker is a 20% damage amp, and it's currently thought to work with Master assassin for 30% crit during the duration, as well as improved garrote

find weakness on top of that makes it essentially an aoe vendetta but stronger

[late birch]

Damn, didnt look that much into it. That's insane

[marble hemlock]

We all knew that from the start and none of us here belittled shadow dance pickers

Right whispyr?

Why are you still awake

[balmy condor]

10.0 Talent Tree Previews:
With the sheer mass of talent possibilities, I will be trying to maintain a spreadsheet with the current theorycrafted concepts and ideas. This spreadsheet will compile trees and feedback from across the community as it pops up and is discussed. If you have any feedback on the spreadsheet, please tell me what improvements you would like to see.
View the spreadsheet here: http://tiny.cc/3rftuz

Attached are also some standard Raid/M+ trees that should feel familiar to any returning assassination player.

[balmy condor]

that's why

[marble hemlock]

No exsang

[balmy condor]

there's a tree with exsang in the spreedsheet

:)

[marble hemlock]

M+ tree has tight spenders instead of night stalker

[balmy condor]

seli fuck off

[marble hemlock]

Make me

It's in the picture okay

:(

[balmy condor]

yeah well it's 4am and I'm not changing the picture right now I'll fix it tomorrow or something idk

can't be fucked

just finished spreadsheeting for the last 5 hours

[marble hemlock]

We don't deserve you

Well oxi does

[strange python]

we dont

whis is a lord

[balmy condor]

sleep time for some demonic 4 hour power nap and then podcast yep

[strange python]

Said it himself, Demon Hunter spy

[bleak sky]

POGCAST?

[balmy condor]

2/3 this week

this entire week is just writing resources and podcasting for me

[bleak sky]

share link

[balmy condor]

Links will all be in spreadsheet

I even have the coming soons

[bleak sky]

[balmy condor]

It’s all set up already

[marble hemlock]

Wanna add 3 days of mdi to it?

[balmy condor]

Not particularly :)

[marble hemlock]

Ngl im glad the talents came out this early but damn if this isn't a really bad time with all the other shit going on atm

[balmy condor]

Having to organize 4 podcasts in a week on a 2 day notice

Is not the most fun I’ve ever had

[marble hemlock]

Whispyr probably busy all week wondering which dress to pack to look cute for our irl date

[balmy condor]

I can’t decide which pair of cat ears so I’m bringing both

[strange python]

send pics of the ears

[marble hemlock]

More important to bring the tail

[strange python]

and we can vote?

[balmy condor]

Most importantly I need to be up in 5 hours

night night assassination

Don’t ping me with dumb talent questions or I will eat all your mayonnaise

[bleak sky]

nn king

[marble hemlock]

@balmy condor what kind of mayo?

[bold heron]

[spice spire]

@balmy condor go to sleep

[shell ivy]

In what occasion is there a meetup?

[spice spire]

Not a normal one

[slim estuary]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[ebon notch]

Who is gonna be on the podcast

[subtle tundra]

They need to invite varas, he has based opinions

And brilliant build ideas

Fuck forgot to swap to my alt

[vestal wren]

seli, guy and whisp as always

and one guest

[empty hinge]

is it a surprise guest

[vestal wren]

koji

[midnight mist]

ah thats cool

[ebon notch]

Gotta love koji

[prisma gorge]

so just trying to make sense of ass - i feel like im maybe not getting enough envenoms off - during vendetta should i be focused on keeping all 3 off or is letting dots fall a little ok to get a couple envemons

[violet jackal]

envenom is just a maintenace filler for slice and dice, bleed upstime is the most relevant thing, priority on garrote and rupture

[jovial adder]

NGL I hope they pull a sylv and burn part of the rogue tree down

[bleak sky]

why is that

[vestal wren]

he likely has pyromania and like things to burn

[twilit hollow]

I'm just sad about the lack of legion stuff in the tree

[vestal wren]

kingsbane?

or what exactly do you miss

[gusty mirage]

Wdym poison bomb is there

[spice spire]

Kingsbane being mentioned

[twilit hollow]

Bring back agonizing

[vestal wren]

no, thanks

[twilit hollow]

[strange python]

I mean - i'll take the trees over:

• current trees
• conduits
• soulbinds
• soulbind trees
• legendaries

They don't seem that bad to me. Couple things maybe out of place -- "fan of knives" maybe?

[gusty mirage]

It’s a first iteration, and a damn good one at that

We’ll be fine

[dark garnet]

Cant you build to barely ever press fok?

Auto and mut aoe dmg

[gusty mirage]

Not if you want cut to the chase

You have no choice but to pick fan of knives

It may be that CttC isn’t worth the dps loss of picking another talent

[strange python]

i mean fok isn't inherently bad - when you get it for free haha

[gusty mirage]

We’ll have to see how things shake up in the next 5 months

[strange python]

i love having it

yeah

[bleak sky]

how

[gusty mirage]

But anyone seeing this first draft of the trees and not being excited is kinda weird. especially considering how we’ve gotten more than we had in almost the entirety of alpha/beta for SL

[spice spire]

Yes man

Compared to 9.0

[dark garnet]

Talent below shiv

[spice spire]

This feels like a legitimate embarrassment of riches

[strange python]

I just remember when blizz first pruned the trees with some statement like
"A lot of the talents are traps for beginner players. A talent doesn't sound that great, but is responsible for a lot of your damage."
But I mean I see that again - which really isn't a concern for anyone in here anyway.

[dark garnet]

Maybe im high and read it wrong

[bleak sky]

?

[dark garnet]

Ah i read it as 50% dmg on all targets affected by poisons

[gusty mirage]

I mean yeah it’s true that there are some talents that at first glance sound kinda meh and are actually huge

But unfortunately with this style of talent trees it’s inevitable

[strange python]

agree

[bleak sky]

lethal dose

it's just 2%

[gusty mirage]

But this kind of tree does allow for some cool shit to be put in

So it’s kind of a trade off

[spice spire]

Surely just 2% :clueless:

[bleak sky]

oh no quake

you don't have a clueless?

[spice spire]

No

[gusty mirage]

Idk I’m hyped about wow for the first time since essences lol so I’m happy with them especially knowing the dude’s in here reading feedback and that he’s played rogue for years

[dark garnet]

How many different poisons and bleeds do we get?

[icy agate]

is this vicious venoms intended to be enough to want to FoK to spread poisons and then go ST generators? or is it just for Mutilate procs of some sort? low targets?

[strange python]

I think 5 poisons - plus leeching so 6

[vestal wren]

we will see, i mean in the end if some things get implemented that seem wanted that is fine already

[bleak sky]

4 usable poisons, rupture, garrote, ct, doomblade(?), replicating dots and poisons with deathmark

[gusty mirage]

Yeah, like I said as a first draft that will inevitably change by December. We’re sitting pretty

[stiff frost]

HELMANS !!!!! or olive oil may

[thorny pond]

Being an early talent tree means more time for feedback too

[gusty mirage]

Yuppers

[thorny pond]

Good spot to be

[bleak sky]

I just want to play with the new trees for a bit

gimme alpha

[spice spire]

All in all

[bleak sky]

or beta

[gusty mirage]

AFAIK venomous wounds is going to get moved further up the tree already

[spice spire]

Rogues looking good

[gusty mirage]

So like, it’s huge

[spice spire]

Give sub better utility tho

[strange python]

Imagine being a shaman and having to wait til 2 weeks before release to even have a talent tree

[gusty mirage]

They can feel our pain in shadowlands

[thorny pond]

Imagine being a shaman

[spice spire]

God bless

[gusty mirage]

Announced the pre-patch for SL and we still had TBD talents in our trees

[strange python]

I think they purposely meme on shamans now or something

[thorny pond]

Biggest tier for them in a while

[spice spire]

9.0 was our beta

[gusty mirage]

And flag just didn’t work at all

Like

[spice spire]

It worked

[gusty mirage]

It didn’t do anything

[spice spire]

But you could like

[gusty mirage]

No

[thorny pond]

Flag wasn’t flag though

[spice spire]

Just not press it again

[gusty mirage]

In beta it didn’t work

[thorny pond]

We were kinky bois

[spice spire]

And no change

Oh I’m talking 9.0

[thorny pond]

Slaughter was it right?

[gusty mirage]

Like the button did nothing

Yea

[thorny pond]

Old code iirc

So flag didn’t work

[icy agate]

it changed so many times

[spice spire]

It was coral but bad

[strange python]

I'm gonna miss stepsis doing 90% of someone's health

[gusty mirage]

Then I was hit with a PREPATCH INC SL READY

And I’m like wut

[spice spire]

Double global

[gusty mirage]

How

[thorny pond]

SL was not prepared

[gusty mirage]

Also, really enjoyed those crimson vial pickpocket buffs we were promised at blizzcon

[spice spire]

No ones prepared for the beachpatrol tho

[gusty mirage]

[thorny pond]

They put the frozen pizza that was the expansion, in the oven then set the temp

[strange python]

lol think next xpac will have some pockets to piock

[spice spire]

What’s blizzcon?

[gusty mirage]

Where people go to stalk streamers apparently

[thorny pond]

Like less than a blizzard but more than a flurry

[spice spire]

Nice

[gusty mirage]

Too soon?

[spice spire]

Didn’t that person get indicted like, yesterday?

[gusty mirage]

He took a plea yesterday

[spice spire]

Nice

Good timing on the joke (I knew nothing of it until yesterday)

[gusty mirage]

I’m waiting to go to blizzcon and have @bleak sky stalk me

[bleak sky]

[spice spire]

Buddy, minalba is gonna have to hide from @lucid birch

[bleak sky]

I'm ready to go to blizzcon (haven't showered in the past 3 weeks)

[gusty mirage]

No, snow gets his own Brazilian rogue

Minalba’s mine

[spice spire]

(That’s still better than a lot of mtg cons)

[bleak sky]

that famous mtg convention reddit post

[spice spire]

Dude’s a homie

[gusty mirage]

But yeah our trees are kinda sick rn

And can only get better

[thorny pond]

Kinda?

Don’t sit on a fence. They’re great

[gusty mirage]

Mfd to CD makes me a sad boy

[vestal wren]

you like all 3 trees?

[thorny pond]

I hate mfd

[vestal wren]

and also the general tree

[gusty mirage]

I skimmed through the sub one, seems a little scatter brained but honestly there’s a lot of cool stuff in there

Converting nature damages to shadow is enormous

[vestal wren]

30% of its damage

what just means adding fw to it

[gusty mirage]

Just cool thematic stuff tbh

[vestal wren]

interessting

[stiff frost]

damn I have been playing rogue wrong just got back into wow and havent played rogue in a while and I wasnt playing around CT properly my bad

[vestal wren]

i mean, i think the tree has some cool choices

[gusty mirage]

I read outlaw’s and saw “long arm of the outlaw” and closed it

[strange python]

To me, sub seems easy to balance on paper (hitting a target dummy)...but it loses so much depending where you lose uptime or have movement or hit intermissions, etc.

[stiff frost]

I will hand in my membership card

[thorny pond]

It’s a “scale” ability

Don’t shoot

[vestal wren]

but i also think the sub tree needs a lot of work

sin seems quite good already

outlaw in between, but atm just has way to much strong interactions

[gusty mirage]

Sub tree just needs some stuff moved around. Right now putting deeper behind aoe stuff is kinda sus

[icy agate]

i think its a good start and only sub needs a lot of work, the class tree needs something better for garotte. outlaw needs some changes to restless blades

[brave gyro]

that's strange, i'd say the rogue trees have been pretty good for a first iteration - worst is sub for sure, but outlaw and assa have a solid start

[gusty mirage]

But it also kinda makes sense that black powder benefits the most from deeper

[strange python]

I mean what is wrong with balancing sub off of a lot less uptime on shadow dance.

[vestal wren]

the right upper part seems easy to fix

[gusty mirage]

Yeah needs some more cohesion

[vestal wren]

the main problem is that if you add a skip to the aoe stuff you also can go very deep into all 3

so your "choice" is lower

[gusty mirage]

Only thing I don’t really agree with is why ER/Resounding is in the general tree

[icy agate]

assassination needs venomous wounds right up top but they've already noted the energy issues and working on it

[vestal wren]

given that you skip a certain amount of points always

[gusty mirage]

Seems like an odd choice

[stiff frost]

so let me get this straight we keep up CT and use envenom as a filler to extend SnD at 4+ cp

[vestal wren]

agree

[brave gyro]

the aoe stuff being early on is also for leveling purposes - they want to make what abilities you get smooth

[thorny pond]

Yea can we trade in stepsis and ER for SBS?

[icy agate]

'supercharging' being a capstone is okay to me, i think it could be a choice capstone though with sepsis and move some more thematic skill into the spec trees

[gusty mirage]

Honestly, flag makes the most sense for all 3 in the general tree

[vestal wren]

i mean, its fine to have it seperated, but if you exclude the points and are able to spend it deeper you can go down a lot

[spice spire]

I’m 99% sure sbs won’t be returning

[strange python]

I mean without the conduit and legondary - i can't imagine stepsis will even be that good anyway

[bleak sky]

even non-obedience flag?

[spice spire]

I love it, but with all of the bugs

[thorny pond]

Don’t tell me this

[vestal wren]

and unless you take optional nodes, you probably won't have a lot of build variance

[spice spire]

still

[vestal wren]

besides some of the capstone nodes seem a bit meh

[gusty mirage]

I mean, just cake in the 0.5% vers per stack

[spice spire]

It makes sense to leave it

[stiff frost]

https://tenor.com/view/mind-blown-amazed-explosion-space-omg-gif-10279314

[brave gyro]

i agree, just understanding why they did - and why they can do it better

[thorny pond]

Fuu, you know we’re all skipping defensives and utility for dps

[gusty mirage]

I want thistle tea to be good

But I don’t think it ever will

[vestal wren]

sin tree has a low amount of utility traits

^^

[thorny pond]

Exactly

[strange python]

I'm taking cheat death and leeching 😄

[icy agate]

supercharge fits with things like seal fate more than some cd bloat that should be in the spec trees imo

[thorny pond]

Don’t feed

[strange python]

and recuperator

[brave gyro]

ah, the days where recup was refunding energy and we had also combat readiness

[fierce hill]

I really dont know why it was put in on the last node feels so rewarding to go all the way down there NOT.

[violet jackal]

place holder most likely

[torpid fulcrum]

How are people getting those insane Sepsis dots? Does it scale with something I should combine it with?

[bold heron]

Master Assassin + Unity and Set

[gusty mirage]

The conduit + tier set usually

Unity doesn’t affect the damage sepsis does

[torpid fulcrum]

I'm off to oneshot some people

[strange python]

we call it giving people the stepsis

[violet jackal]

[ebon notch]

might also be that bug where it does all its damage in 2.5s

[torpid fulcrum]

Oh, that's a bug?

[ebon notch]

the 4 set does speed up the dot

but theres a bug where if you macro them together it goes even faster

so your sepsis does all of its damage in 2.5s

[pulsar apex]

Ello. Returning player. New to Rogue. Any pro/con to levelling as Sin vs Sub?

[viscid spear]

Sub has Soothing Shadows

[strange python]

How parse on lihuvim and anduin without cache

[red plaza]

Reroll warlock or surv hunter

[spice spire]

[misty holly]

Is this for real?? I get killed by other sin rogues and their Sepsis is absolutely trucking me.

Mine never seems to do as much

[bleak sky]

same damage, shortened window

[misty holly]

Well when its stun, and dead in 3 seconds it makes a difference hehe

[stiff frost]

what slot is everyone putting unity on

[gusty mirage]

I have mine on bracers, but that’s also because I’ve yet to drop any bracers at all this tier

Plus bracers was the safe pick early on

[craggy nimbus]

Anyone that knows if we can buy Sylvanas dagger from the currency in s4?
Atleast a dagger without the proc so just the mog perhaps?

[violet jackal]

Head

[violet jackal]

yes

[craggy nimbus]

Really? With the proc aswell or just a regular dagger?

[violet jackal]

You will be able to trade a whole token for a whole sylvannas dagger

[hollow river]

With proc

[pulsar apex]

anything more helpful?

[violet jackal]

sublety has better healing I think, no real difference in terms of leveling

[pulsar apex]

ty ty

[soft tapir]

I've only played sub and outlaw, why does my deadly poison do like #4-#5 in st when I hit dummies

but then #1 by far in sims

am I not pressing shiv enough or something?

[daring kraken]

I believe the instant and dot are combined in sims, press the arrow somewhere around there and it will split them into the two parts

[soft tapir]

oh I see ty!

[shy dust]

What’s the macro

[ebon notch]

its just vendetta and sepsis together

[pulsar apex]

is sin "simpler" than sub for a newbie? i know thats probably not a very helpful question

[gusty mirage]

I’d argue sub is probably more straightforward, especially while leveling

You just dance shadowstrike eviscerate

vs trying to put up bleeds and waiting for energy

[pulsar apex]

i getcha

and poisoned knife/throw shuriken isnt a go to rotational button?

seems a non-mention in any guides

[gusty mirage]

Nope, it’s kind of useless for boss stuff. You’d only ever press it on a boss fight if you have a mechanic that requires you to run out

[pulsar apex]

ok so its not getting a premium keybind

ty for all the help btw

[gusty mirage]

No problem at all, that’s what we’re here for

[craggy nimbus]

That's a bit crazy :>
Another reason to actually play in s4. Was planning on skipping altogether^^

[gusty mirage]

Yeah it’s super nice to be able to have that available. I hope they keep something similar moving forward

Some kind of bad luck protection like that

[viscid spear]

Gotta say I'm glad I went back Horde and moved servers, because my Alliance guild basically stopped caring until the next expansion.

[lucid birch]

I’m here for other reasons

[bleak sky]

[spice spire]

What reasons

[lucid birch]

[spice spire]

Bro?

[viscid spear]

[brave gyro]

you also get free shadowstep every time you restealth (shadowstrike)

[hybrid vale]

What if I wanna attack from a distance ( acrobatic strikes + long arm of the outlaw….)

[bleak sky]

then you play outlaw

because one of those talents is outlaw specific

(:

[strange python]

Does Doomblade count for Lethal Dose?

Isnt it better for st to get rid of ct instead of doomblade for 2% dmg amp?

[sharp falcon]

hi, let's say theoretically stealth-guarantees-poisons ceases to exist, because you know why

are we already at the stage where people are mad at losing an imaginary thing that didn't even exist yet, j/w

[sharp falcon]

yes, also Lethal Dose is OP, expect nerf or change

[strange python]

u get 18% dmg amp while deathmark is up

pretty much ye

[midnight reef]

Which is bis leggy for Sin in raids?

[brave gyro]

depending on CT tuning, you might wanna keep both

[lucid birch]

@bleak sky answer question

[bleak sky]

hello snow

[bleak sky]

duskwalker

[strange python]

if you play with dashing + amplifying posion u want to spend ur finishers with envenom I guess

idk where to put ct it doesnt even dupilcate while deathmark

[oak sky]

dont think anyones losing too much sleep over this but I guess it would be better for it to be baked in somewhere

[bleak sky]

honestly shouldn't be an issue

[brave gyro]

again, it depends on tuning, we might not need to pick it for st

[midnight reef]

@bleak sky Thank you!

[bleak sky]

np

Realz, DH tree is still far away yeah?

[oak sky]

doomblade loses a bit of value with ct because you press envenom less with ct, hard to say

[bleak sky]

i know we're in rogue disc but you're here so

[oak sky]

what do we have now like 6 trees i would assume theyll release a couple every week or 2 now

dh cant be that far off

[sharp falcon]

yes

[bleak sky]

[sharp falcon]

under construction, do not hold breath, "when it's ready"

[bleak sky]

ye ye

[sharp falcon]

but yeah, the 'stealth/dance build' or whatever that means to assassin, shouldn't also be the best poison build probably, and stealth guarantees poison turns a totally ignorable old effect into an insane powerhouse that is difficult to tune around if it continues to exist

[brave gyro]

Realz, can u confirm if the 8 point requirement is for first 3 rows? since the mockup images and talent calc are after 4th

[sharp falcon]

Punz, that was the intention, but I'm keeping an eye on builds people make and seeing if they use the broken/wrong trees to make ones that dont have at least 8 in the first 3 rows... so far i havent found a single one

if that continues to be true, i'll probably just move the gate down to where most classes have it (where it is now on wowhead calc) and change nothing

[brave gyro]

roger that, appreciate the answer

[strange python]

I don’t think the 8 point threshold that you intend really interferes with much

[bleak sky]

seems really hard to make a build that doesn't pick up 8 points on the upper threshold

[lucid birch]

Isn’t the powerhouse just squeezing cds together like shiv exsang and DM

And dance

[sharp falcon]

if i see a lot of unintended things happening that undermine the desired restriction and choices to be made across the tree, then it'll say first 3 rows

[spice spire]

No, the mitochondria is the powerhouse

[brave gyro]

i think its mostly for raid specs that ignore one side in the general tree

but its still early, im not worried

something like this @strange python

[strange python]

ah yea none of my builds went like this

although I can see people doing that

[brave gyro]

another example will be if u go assa side, u want to pick maybe both the crit and poison dmg

and u dont wanna go down lets say outlaw colum

[bleak sky]

don't think that's an issue punz

[oak sky]

other things are bigger fs

[sharp falcon]

Yeah, that tree buys a lot of extra power, in fact it should definitely take Vigor 15% energy regen over 2% versa (or 7% finisher cost? unsure)... but yeah, it's a good example of something I don't want, the point budgets for bottom-of-tree should be pretty balanced and the gate being in the wrong place can potentially change that (basically +2)

or maybe it can't because that's what it needs for 20, didn't count

yeah it is

filling out all of the row 5 dps stuff is not really the idea, it's okay to do it but it should be competing with deeper talents to do so

[jovial adder]

🥂

[chilly marsh]

that tea at the end too dont give us any incentive to spent points that way

[balmy condor]

tea can be okay for like pvp openers I guess but with current thought process, there's some questions about whether we even want seal fate in single target anymore, where the tea would be most useful

and in aoe where we absolutely want seal fate, tea is a questionable pick

[oak sky]

im not sold on cold blood

[jovial adder]

Maybe make cheat death baseline and fill that spot with something else 🥸

[bleak sky]

same but I kinda want lethality

so gotta path through it

[chilly marsh]

coldblood only make sense for me if you have a heavy hitter

like in the LK classic cominig i miss a lot opening some priests and mages with a ambush for 40% their lifes

but sin dont really have a good hit for coldblood

[balmy condor]

Neither am I, maybe realz can comment on whether it’s supposed to work with dots

But with envenom taking a backseat as a filler

It’s a little questionable

[chilly marsh]

coldblood makes way more sense for sub

[balmy condor]

I can see cold blood -> CT for aoe

[bleak sky]

big mut crit trust

[balmy condor]

But that seems kinda rough

[hollow river]

thistle tea, tiny toxic blade... unbuffed exsanguinate which will probably never be taken

i don't even mind cold blood, especially if it will work with dots

[oak sky]

idk it just seems like symbols but worse right

[hollow river]

but Tea and Tiny Toxic Blade hardly make sense as capstone traits

[chilly marsh]

if coldblood gave us 100% crit for 3-4s on all or dots it would work

[oak sky]

like a 45s cd for 1 ability to crit is what cold blood is right

idk

[chilly marsh]

but as a one use its just meh

[oak sky]

and then we also have MA

[storm onyx]

could ColdBlood give 100% crit on DD and X% crit on dot affected by it; it would be interesting; Like an on demand MA for rupture without covering the totality of duration

[oak sky]

which makes our vanish a crit steroid

[balmy condor]

Exsang seems really strong with current dance

[oak sky]

so then we have 2

[chilly marsh]

what if marked to death changed places with coldblood?

sub can use coldblood better and we could use markerd

[oak sky]

i mean

isnt cold blood just what symbols is rn but worse

[hollow river]

symbols of death?

[bleak sky]

yes that one

[hollow river]

i guess i could see the comparison

[oak sky]

yeah

i mean it works on finishers

but like

it definitely feels at least to me that they share a good portion of spell identity

[hollow river]

will believe it once i see numbers, as i've gotten nothing but memed on for wanting it to be good

[storm onyx]

MA getting toned down to 30% apparently; couse it affacts dance? So its not we are getting sure crits anymore

[oak sky]

we already didnt get sure crits and it felt ass

[hollow river]

i don't think MA affects dance stealth does it?

[oak sky]

everything works in dance supposedly

but break stealth like subt is different

[hollow river]

just not actual "leaving stealth" abilities ya

[storm onyx]

I like the on demand crit Cold Blood brings; without sacrificing vanish. Remember how peaple were compaining about MA forcing Vanish as dps cd?

[sharp falcon]

just catching up briefly

discussing whether or not Cold Blood should work on DoTs, in spirit I want it to but make sure that's okay, historically it hasn't

[chilly marsh]

realz about choice one is it intentional for rogue tree not having any?

[balmy condor]

I mean dance on the tree atm is 30% damage, 100% poison chance, 30% crit chance, ambush, and subterfuge, all at once

That’s kinda busted

[sharp falcon]

that said, why would an effect that says, "Your next Rupture deals 20% increased damage" work, but not "Your next Rupture has 100% increased critical strike chance" ?

[storm onyx]

#assassination message

[bleak sky]

it working on dots could have interesting repercussions on indiscriminate carnage eh

[thin trout]

Yet killed jailer

Cant believe i played outlaw for like 5 nights om this boss

[chilly marsh]

in that case all rupture ticks would crit? could be goood

[thin trout]

Its like this fight was made for assassins rogues

[sharp falcon]

as for Cold Blood + MFD positioning, I might try swapping them for now, even if it does work on dots it matches mechanical identities better that way (MFD in assassin-land, and CB in big evis mastery sub-land)

still, I'm starting to sour on the idea that either-or are MUST TAKEs... if I come up with really good passive alternatives, I wouldn't mind making one or both of them into choice nodes

[bleak sky]

a choice for those 2 would be neat

[oak sky]

i was gonna say a lot of sin rogues would really hate mfd being required

this channel hates keybinds

[sharp falcon]

they can be fun for sure but there's a lot of medium-CD stuff floating around, even if some of it is optional

[bleak sky]

stop talking about oxi like that

[oak sky]

yo i dont mind mfd

[balmy condor]

I just don’t like when it competes with vigor/deeper

[oak sky]

im speaking for the crowd minalba

[sharp falcon]

well it doesn't compete with those anymore =p

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s why I’m not complaining

Me be quiet

:>

[sharp falcon]

vigor/deeper obviously stayed direct competitors, but MFD moved out

in any case, i gtg will read more later, whispyr read my question from ~20min ago GOODBYE

[bleak sky]

cheers realz

[balmy condor]

There was a question?

[chilly marsh]

ty for your time realz !

[bleak sky]

whispyr donowalling the dev

💀

[oak sky]

might be the stealth poison thing

or wait how long ago was that

[bleak sky]

hi, let's say theoretically stealth-guarantees-poisons ceases to exist, because you know why

are we already at the stage where people are mad at losing an imaginary thing that didn't even exist yet, j/w

[lucid birch]

I tried to ping you but your name didn’t pop up so I pinged minalba

[balmy condor]

Oh

No we don’t care

Stealth poisons is quality of life atm

[bleak sky]

I'm next in line whispyr watch your throne

[lucid birch]

LOL

[bleak sky]

[balmy condor]

The dance interaction is the strong one

It’s a neat idea

[oak sky]

fixing the poison bug though 👀

[balmy condor]

But I don’t think anyone cares too much

It used to be a passive from true stealth to make the opener not painful with venomous wounds if you get crushed

By application rng

Could just do that again

If you really want the QoL

[chilly marsh]

it could be a simple poison passive anyway. change it for the 1° hit while in steath and its solves he problem

[storm onyx]

Dono, ColdBlood added with X% crit chance per tick would be neat

[balmy condor]

But on the necessity ladder I think stealth poisons is fairly low

[bleak sky]

doesn't read super good to me tbh

because ticks are weird

[oak sky]

half ticks

[bleak sky]

partial ticks

[chilly marsh]

i got here a little late did realz told anything about venomous woulds being changed to early tree ?

[oak sky]

think its assumed to be going where stealth poisons are

[bleak sky]

mentioned it on tree release day but nothing is set in stone

[storm onyx]

That would be the same as the affect we had before that made some rupture ticks hit twice; that was a good one.
Also affected by Deathmark and Carnage too

[obtuse robin]

@balmy condor watching the podcast your on what a cutie

[oak sky]

this seems to imply vw going in the stealth poison slot

this wording

[obtuse robin]

[oak sky]

stealth-guarantees-poisons ceases to exist, because you know why

just my interpretation

[chilly marsh]

needing a talent point for it is just silly too

[hollow river]

i got that feeling too

[oak sky]

it is something that we had but it does seem a little weak in terms of power equity

[chilly marsh]

should be a passive of poisons to help opening life before

[hollow river]

[chilly marsh]

your first steath hit apply your poisons

dont matter if youre steath for 10 minutes its only the first hit

[hollow river]

wow Lethal Dose actually does read quite strong

[oak sky]

its a little more than strong

[hollow river]

if you take Dragon-Tempered Blades, and if Lethal works with Doomblade/Sepsis/Deathmark

yeah you def take Dance/Nightstalker/Exsang with that

biiig burst windows

[chilly marsh]

SD is too broken not to take

[hollow river]

Dance? nah

only powerful if there's enough synergy

we don't get CDR and we only get 1 charge

[oak sky]

dance with nightstalker is pretty strong

[hollow river]

ye i agree

but without reason to take it, it's kinda w/e

imagine pressing Cold Blood-Sepsis or Deathmark

[chilly marsh]

sure its the combo but the other pieces are fine alone

if you nerf everything so SD stays good sin is dead

[oak sky]

would definitely be nice to have thistle tea be stronger or something juicier

but whatever works

[hollow river]

what are your thoughts on Tea turning into Shrouded Suffocation

[obtuse robin]

what if cold blood works with sd mass goarrote spread carnage deathmark

[storm onyx]

Exsanguinate was being considered for that afaik

[hollow river]

nvm i see what you mean Black

(:

[chilly marsh]

not that good

[obtuse robin]

but it is one

[hollow river]

no way lol

why would exsang be on the class tree o.O

[hollow river]

why

[storm onyx]

No, No SS was being considred to be put in place of Exan...

[hollow river]

oh

i dislike that idea

[oak sky]

that could be good or ss can go somewhere on the spec tree whatever

[obtuse robin]

you would have to change or remove improved garrote

to bring in ss

[hollow river]

yeah true

[chilly marsh]

because of it limited uses

[hollow river]

i like the idea of exsang and it being optional

don't mind it where it is tbh

i'd like to see TTB go

[storm onyx]

Also SS is a spec thing imo

[obtuse robin]

having ss in the class tree would work if they want to make garrote more apealing for law and sub

[hollow river]

^

[chilly marsh]

for SS to work you would need to take subterfuge for m+ too

[obtuse robin]

which they do realz already said

[chilly marsh]

way out of the path

[hollow river]

no you don't

improved garrote is in sin's tree

[oak sky]

dont know if ss is strong enough to be a capstone

[hollow river]

stronger than thistle i'm sure ya?

[obtuse robin]

o.o

ofc it is

[chilly marsh]

and you can only use once

[hollow river]

no

"has no CD for 3 sec after breaking stealth+50% damage"

[obtuse robin]

ss is stronger then er

and tea

and if u sd its not even close

[oak sky]

im just not sure if it fits instead of thistle tea or not

[chilly marsh]

true forgot sin tree one

[hollow river]

sin has no need to take Subterfuge in class tree whatsoever

yeah

unless you want to ambush for some god forsaken reason

[obtuse robin]

it already fits in what realz wants to do

[storm onyx]

Apart from Pvp yea

[obtuse robin]

make garrote more apealing for the other 2

[hollow river]

then what could replace TTB

[storm onyx]

a lot of discussion in here we are ignoring Pvp aspect

[chilly marsh]

but SS would be good for m+ and bad for raid i think

[hollow river]

would Kingsbane work in place of TTB or na

[chilly marsh]

pvp will have their own talents right?

[hollow river]

i kinda disagree

SS buffs garrote damage and makes it give 2cp iirc

[obtuse robin]

hard disagree

[storm onyx]

They wont have a saparate class tree

[hollow river]

would be fine in raid

[obtuse robin]

3 cp

[bleak sky]

Read dance as a 1 minute cd

[hollow river]

3cp? oh shit

[bleak sky]

And not as perma uptime as is the case with current sub

[obtuse robin]

imagine ss night stalker amped deathmark

[hollow river]

thats what i was trying to explain loil

[bleak sky]

Dance is insanely powerful

[obtuse robin]

giga dmg

[bleak sky]

Even if there isn't cdr

[chilly marsh]

2 cps is nice and all but when you open with mfd i dont think it matter a lot

[oak sky]

the big thing was making it give 3cp not the damage

[hollow river]

why would you open with mfd

?????

[obtuse robin]

yea u dont do that

[chilly marsh]

pre buff snd

[storm onyx]

We should not forget any interaction we break just thinking by PvE aspect will limit utility/function of whole class in PvP

[hollow river]

yeah we don't do that

lol

i could see why you might if you have mfd anyway

but even then it's ehh

[obtuse robin]

whats being broken in pvp

[hollow river]

i don't see how anything we're discussing negatively affects pvp tho?

if anything it would be even better for pvp

honestly

[chilly marsh]

pvp have profiles anyway. skill does X less in pvp

[bleak sky]

And pvp can be tuned while leaving PvE alone

Wouldn't be concerned

[chilly marsh]

they can just balance pvp after with those

[hollow river]

it's not like thistle tea is some insane utility for pvp tbh

this isn't BC or WoTLK

[chilly marsh]

if it was it should be a pvp talent too

[obtuse robin]

yea grabing all the utility up top might be worth more then tea

in pvp

[hollow river]

it likely is

utility usually trumps damage in pvp

stuns, DRs, survivability and peels

etc

[obtuse robin]

having crimson vial/iron stomachj/rushed setup and prey over tea

[hollow river]

pvp build will take Elusiveness as well i'm sure

[obtuse robin]

yeah

[hollow river]

so pvpers prob won't even make it to the bottom of the tree unless going for big burst Dance

@balmy condor

[obtuse robin]

[hollow river]

what are your thoughts on TTB and thistle tea

i'm curious 🙂

[obtuse robin]

he wants ttb gone

[spice spire]

ttb

[obtuse robin]

i think he wants tea gone 2

along with exsang

iirc

[hollow river]

i'm in no way trying to complain about em, i just want em to be choices we would want to take in some situation

[oak sky]

ttb

right

[hollow river]

tree is dope otherwise

[oak sky]

yeah not a huge fan of ttb

[chilly marsh]

tea just dont make sence vigor would give you more energy anyway lol

tea is what ? 2 energy per sec ?

[obtuse robin]

makes sense like in the first 5 sec

then what

[chilly marsh]

60s cd for 100 energy is 1.6666 "energy regen"

[hollow river]

it does say max 3 charges

[obtuse robin]

its gone during lust tho

prolly

[hollow river]

so if it has 3 charges in opener it could be more in first minute

just don't see you being 0 energy ever

what are you gonna do with extra energy anyway

[chilly marsh]

this

[hollow river]

spam 1 more envenom?

[chilly marsh]

its probe a 70-80 energy on use

[hollow river]

[storm onyx]

3 charges; 1 min cd; its 400 energy in 1 min. no??

[chilly marsh]

no because you will only get 1 charge per minute

[storm onyx]

it would be just 1 min CD if that was the case; no charges

[chilly marsh]

its like SD now

you start with 2 charge and get one back

[hollow river]

all charge abilities still have a CD per charge regen

so it'd still be 1 charge per min

[storm onyx]

Yea, at start it will be 3 charges; 300 enegry banked; at end of 1 min, 1 more comes...

[hollow river]

yes

[storm onyx]

ah....

[chilly marsh]

if the tea cd was 20s

we would have 3 charger por minute

now that starts making me interested

[bleak sky]

Why

You're likely not energy starved

And you can't generate enough cps to be starved really

[chilly marsh]

also true

but with a shorter cd the skill cold be situational good

right now is just garbage

[storm onyx]

so its 400 energy at start of fight, then 100 each minute. Its value drops as fight goes longer

[bleak sky]

400 at the start?

[storm onyx]

3 charges and 1 more at 1 min mark?

[bleak sky]

Sure but

I don't see how having that much energy is good

[chilly marsh]

i think he mean your own 100 + 3 uses of tea

[bleak sky]

Sure you're a little starved on the opener and have to wait 0.5sec to apply garrote

But after that?

[storm onyx]

Unrestricted finishers until tea charges are done ; Its envenom based likely

[bleak sky]

With what cracked up cp generation?

[storm onyx]

400+yur regen is quite bit of energy for burst

[bleak sky]

Cp generation

Not energy

How are you getting cp to spend them

[storm onyx]

Do you think I am stating we will envenom only during that time?

[chilly marsh]

i dont kwon how our energy will work yet

[storm onyx]

Please dont argue just to argue?

[bleak sky]

What

[chilly marsh]

Venomous Wounds is goign from 8 to 5 too

[bleak sky]

Dev said vw is likely getting buffed

And moved up

Next

[chilly marsh]

nice didnt know about the buff

it just makes tea even more pointless

[storm onyx]

DF one getting upped to 8?

cool

[chilly marsh]

i mean if they buffed tea x3 what it is now it would still be bad if we dont need more energy

[sharp falcon]

ctrl + f "ttb" HMM

[chilly marsh]

[bleak sky]

ttb