assassination

[oak sky]

what vendetta

[ebon notch]

QUICK YOU HAVE 5 SECONDS TO DOT UP 5 TARGETS

OH SHIT RUPTURE AND GARROTE FELL OFF

FIX IT

[oak sky]

are you talking about current playstyle

[ebon notch]

feels like ur a fireman catching babies falling out of trees

yes

[oak sky]

because thats exactly why sin sucks with tier set in aoe

its so unfun

[kind talon]

i love

[oak sky]

and also

[kind talon]

babies

and firemen

[oak sky]

im not talking about zoldyck in 9.2 im talking about it in any other time

[ebon notch]

[kind talon]

maybe i should play more sin

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/862728693699575819.webp?size=96&quality=lossless

[ebon notch]

you play kyrian dust outlaw

[oak sky]

that aint weirdga

[ebon notch]

ur a demon

[toxic locust]

nice emote image

[kind talon]

😈

[ebon notch]

i simmed it to compare

sims like 1.1k less than CB

[kind talon]

with your gear maybe

[storm onyx]

we arent a aoe spec, so i dont expect overall dmg presence to begin with, i play by 'enemy dmg taken' and have a peace of mind .lol

[ebon notch]

no shot its worse for you

[kind talon]

its way less loss

[bleak sky]

dekai on that welfare gear

[kind talon]

than 1.1k

[bleak sky]

that's why

[kind talon]

yeah

my gear is awesome

[bleak sky]

[ebon notch]

ok but how much of a loss

[kind talon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/862728693699575819.webp?size=96&quality=lossless

like 200 or 300 or 400

in pure st

afaik

[ebon notch]

????

those are all big numbers

[kind talon]

its like 2% i think

[bleak sky]

ye but those aint 1.1k homie

[oak sky]

being good in aoe is always subject to change

[ebon notch]

why u calling me out

smh

dont you have plantains to peel

[kind talon]

2.4% 389

dps loss

i only sim 16k daps

[bleak sky]

listen it's late here so I can't work anymore

[storm onyx]

DF talents will make things quite interesting tho seems, which is nice

[ebon notch]

[glass tulip]

@bleak sky when you come over for dinner can you make some pao de queijo

[bleak sky]

hell ye brother

[glass tulip]

they make them at the churrasco restaurant by my house

[bleak sky]

[oak sky]

holy

[ebon notch]

https://i.redd.it/xsscajc4dla91.png

[oak sky]

stream the dinner date

[bleak sky]

WHAT

delete final fantasy

[ebon notch]

its monster hunter

you uncultured swine

[bleak sky]

delete that too

[toxic locust]

delete final fantasy anyway

[ebon notch]

fk u

mhw is bis

[bleak sky]

I played it for a whole 2 hours

[ebon notch]

@glass tulip tell him

[oak sky]

@bleak sky whens dinner 💅

[ebon notch]

???

[bleak sky]

the combat is so fucking shit

it's unbelievable

[ebon notch]

are you fucking trolling

theres no way you tried all 14 weapons

[cobalt pelican]

how you still playin world wtf

[ebon notch]

in 2 hours

[balmy condor]

So how are we feeling about the new DN talents

[ebon notch]

havent played it in a long while

but i have over 600 hours in it or smth

[bleak sky]

I like them, they feel very sturdy

[ebon notch]

ofc i have iceborne

[cobalt pelican]

i reinstalled world a bit after rise launch for nostalgia

but didn't do much

[ebon notch]

bro beating nergigante

fuck me

[bleak sky]

i did daggers, big sword and hated both

[ebon notch]

that was a struggle and a half

[ebon notch]

ye no shit they both take actual hands to use

shouldve gone the anime sword

[oak sky]

i feel them all day

[balmy condor]

Haha Gottem I said DN for deez nuts that’s not the name of the expansion you fell for the classic prank oh my god you should see your face

[bleak sky]

when i'm in your state

call me ☎️

[oak sky]

💋

[ebon notch]

tell me more about DN

[glass tulip]

tell who what

[ebon notch]

exactly

[glass tulip]

the new ma talent?

[ebon notch]

what

[glass tulip]

ma balls

[ebon notch]

gottem

[bleak sky]

[balmy condor]

[ebon notch]

you play dota 2?

[balmy condor]

No but give it a couple years and I’ll play with your daughter 2

[ebon notch]

implying ill have kids

IN THIS ECONOMY

"COME ON SON TIME TO GO TO BED IN YOUR CARDBOARD BOX"

[bleak sky]

don't you live in a non-shithole country?

[ebon notch]

well the government just fell apart

so we'll see if the new one is less fucked up

who knows

[bleak sky]

surely a less fucked up one

[ebon notch]

surely

cant wait for the next election

[glass tulip]

a couple

[ebon notch]

gonna yeet these fucking conservatives into the fucking sun

all i want is some borderline communist flamboyant individual

to give me cheap fibre

[oak sky]

esra has a cannon

[ebon notch]

and a place to live

and lower fucking education fees

[bleak sky]

communist flamboyant individual

[ebon notch]

like fuck me man

i said borderline

[bleak sky]

that's someone in here for sure

[ebon notch]

communism aint that great

[bleak sky]

nah bro they just haven't implemented REAL communism

[ebon notch]

lets not start that

[bleak sky]

sorry forgot this isn't OT #2 anymore

[oak sky]

mr fil wheres my ubi

[bleak sky]

new expansion new #assassination

[ebon notch]

i wrote my dissertation on why communism failed in russia but not in china

[bleak sky]

dm me

[oak sky]

sin players like economics TIL

[toxic locust]

sin players get time to think about these things since the spec's apm is so low

[bleak sky]

I had a future in politics

[ebon notch]

i also have a degree in economics

i double majored in history and econ

[bleak sky]

aight I know who to geek out with over econ shit now

[oak sky]

yeah

i knew

minalba liked econ

[bleak sky]

daps is not my friend he's your friend

[oak sky]

and daps had an econ degree

masters right

[ebon notch]

nah undergrad

[oak sky]

but u have a masters

right

[ebon notch]

i did my masters in chinese politics, history and econ

[jaunty crystal]

my first degree was in econ too.

[oak sky]

not too fond of the social sciences

[ebon notch]

i wish i was more of a maths guy

i wanted to be an engineer

but my brain no worky so good with number

[jaunty crystal]

ye I realized I wanted to do CS but I was already going into my last year

so I just finished econ, then went back a year later to study CS 😛

[bleak sky]

econ big math

BIIIIG math

[ebon notch]

i managed to skate by on pure econ theory lmao

the maths i was like

[oak sky]

i took a decent amount of math

[jaunty crystal]

I minored in math which made econ like 100x easier

[oak sky]

done with it tho

[bleak sky]

course was basically math with a few sprinkles of history and polsci

was great

[jaunty crystal]

my course wasn't too math heavy tbh, depending on which classes you took.

some students could skate by on real limited knowledge

[ebon notch]

i had to take quantitive methods 1 and 2

mandatory

[bleak sky]

bless

imagine not taking those

[ebon notch]

bruh

i sat there first day like

[oak sky]

what are those classes

[ebon notch]

"im gonna fail out on god"

[jaunty crystal]

ye those were mandatory for us as well. our text was called "the math of economics" or something like that lol

[oak sky]

im in stem so ive just had to do like multivariable calc and differential equations and stuff

[bleak sky]

based

[ebon notch]

fuck

i just used the word simmed instead of submitted in a sentence

this discord has ruined me

anyway i submitted a paper on some sort of maths that basically lifted out of the textbook and reworded

and i got a 70

idek bro

[jaunty crystal]

what stem field @oak sky

don't think CS goes that high on the maths

[oak sky]

started in engineering

biochem now

[jaunty crystal]

ye makes sense

[oak sky]

engineering actually had to do linear algebra too

but i decided i was gonna swap before i took it

[bleak sky]

i deadass almost failed lin algebra

💀

[oak sky]

only class ive almost failed is ochem 3

[jaunty crystal]

econ was smooth sailing

cs was a lot harder, at least for me. Barely passed like 3-4 classes.

like operating systems lmao

[bleak sky]

different strokes different folks eh

[lucid birch]

[ebon notch]

bruh assa chat so educated actually on god

outlaw just have frenchies like @midnight mist

qu'es-ce que tu fais??

[jaunty crystal]

slow fingers but bigger brains over here

[bleak sky]

study between gcds

[oak sky]

this is fake

[bleak sky]

[lucid birch]

none of this is real

[bleak sky]

we're all living in a dream

[lucid birch]

a nightmare really

[oak sky]

day n nite (nightmare)

[bleak sky]

nightmare for some, dream for others(not me)

[midnight mist]

[ebon notch]

[bleak sky]

outlaw has all the french people

and french canadian

[oak sky]

flowr

skip

[bleak sky]

coincidence? I think not

[ebon notch]

their fingers shake from nicotine withdrawal

[oak sky]

dj and dadsen dont play wow

[ebon notch]

makes it easier to react to priority lists and procs

[oak sky]

Suske

[midnight mist]

wait is skip french?

[bleak sky]

canada

[oak sky]

canadien

[ebon notch]

french canadian

so not really

[bleak sky]

guy is also canada

[oak sky]

skip is moroccan actually i think

[oak sky]

dont think hes french part tho

[midnight mist]

crazy

[bleak sky]

all of canada is french trust me bro i'm canadian

[midnight mist]

we should just write the outlaw guides in french at this point

[bleak sky]

agreed

[oak sky]

s / canadian / brazilian

I am minalba

[bleak sky]

yeah duh we're melee

[ebon notch]

what does this mean

im stroking out

[bleak sky]

type on your chat right now s / mean / text

no spaces

[oak sky]

You shouldve responded with discord sex

[bleak sky]

actually those types of jokes are not allowed in #assassination

[oak sky]

Oxis out in the wilderness he cant hurt you

[bleak sky]

he's tracking all my movement

can't

[lucid birch]

[ebon notch]

guys look

i finally won at something

[plush delta]

what does everyone think of the new class tree overall ?

[balmy condor]

the class one is a little weird

dance and ER are kinda awkward

but the rest is good

assassination tree is a banger

oh and thistle is dogshit please remove

[plush delta]

the left one seems pretty odd.. and I guess all rogue specs getting garotte now? if they want evasion lol

[balmy condor]

why is thistle tea a thing

[clever hollow]

Looks fun, atrophic poison is problematic, deathmark and double poisons are neat.

[balmy condor]

atrophic ain't that problematic

[plush delta]

and am i reading it wrong or have they actually remove vendetta

[echo geyser]

u have all items now?

[clever hollow]

At a certain point for raids that becomes required

[echo geyser]

missing 2nd 285 dagger

probably

[ebon notch]

no

chest and ryg dagger

[plush delta]

sadge

[clever hollow]

if all rogues could get atrophic and sin had some special version or something it'd be better, but I hate raid buffs in general

[echo geyser]

how is raz not higher ilvl than u

[ebon notch]

for "bis" for outlaw i need 285 gloves

[plush delta]

and no shrouded suffocation why man

[ebon notch]

outlaw set

[balmy condor]

by that logic, having a priest/warrior/dh/monk/mage is also required

[echo geyser]

[ebon notch]

if he logged out in his raid set he would be higher

[balmy condor]

that's just the world we live in

[ebon notch]

raid assa**

[echo geyser]

raz plays all specs i think

[limber lion]

outlaw using 259 dagger and 272 ring

[balmy condor]

not sadge, this is much better than vendetta

[clever hollow]

MOAR DOTS

[echo geyser]

sin using ring too

but 259 eon yeah drags down

[limber lion]

daps isn't.

[balmy condor]

vendetta is omega boring and locks you to one target

[limber lion]

:-)

[balmy condor]

this has interactions, and allows you to swap

it's v gud

[echo geyser]

he trolling

[ebon notch]

[echo geyser]

next time big grind mark the date

17 august

298 ilvl

enjoy

[ebon notch]

"hey ram can you come help me farm the ring!!!"

"no lmao"

[clever hollow]

How does it swap?

[balmy condor]

dev said he's thinking about it

[ebon notch]

mofo was running the same key all day every day ANYWAY

[echo geyser]

i invited u at some point

[balmy condor]

the flat damage is almost for sure not happening

but the cp might

[plush delta]

i think it could be good with a couple other benefits.. one of the good uses of vendetta was ability to see stealth targets and the energy regen

[echo geyser]

i mostly made full grps that look for keys

or 5 man with rerolling

[plush delta]

in pvp anyways

[balmy condor]

vendetta sees stealth targets?

[echo geyser]

at least s4 will be instantly uncapped valor

[balmy condor]

[clever hollow]

XD

[echo geyser]

so u can probably just do +2s, but CoS dungeon is so easy u can just do +15 anyways

vault is the annoying one

[plush delta]

yeah enemy can't restealth with vendetta applied as it allows you to see them

[balmy condor]

PvP garbage effect I sleep

[ebon notch]

@echo geyser

you werent lying

[echo geyser]

this fake if its my profile

[plush delta]

why does deathmark allow target switching soryr

[echo geyser]

or is that u

[balmy condor]

because vendetta was 30% to the target for the duration

[clever hollow]

@balmy condor How does deathmark allow you to target swap?

[balmy condor]

deathmark lets you press the button, it applies all the dots

and then you can swap

there's no damage increase naturally attached to it

[ebon notch]

that is hwo many keys me and you did together

[balmy condor]

so you don't lose anything hitting something else

[ebon notch]

during legion timewalking

[clever hollow]

But you only double mark the target

oh I get what you're saying

long as you keep you extra bleeds/poisons up you're not missing out on much

[echo geyser]

u actually grinded pretty hard

respectable

next time do 100

[ebon notch]

fk u

[clever hollow]

god, remember when combo points were per target?

[echo geyser]

u did like 65 its pretty good no cap

[plush delta]

i feel like some shit needs to be baseline how the fuk can u play assa without venemous wounds and seal fate

you are forced into those

[ebon notch]

i grinded just as many hours as you did and i had to have ur stream open in the background so i didnt feel lonely

[ebon notch]

a bunch didnt log

it was over 75

[balmy condor]

before it was "oh I want to tab over but I can't cause this target has vend for 15 more seconds and anything I do is just 30% better on this target"
now it's "oh I want to tab over, that's fine cause my ability will do the same thing regardless of what I'm hitting"

[balmy condor]

venomous wounds is moving into the top of the sin tree, and you definitely can play sin without seal fate. Probably not in m+ but in raids for sure

[echo geyser]

yeah legion tw dungeons have a tendency to not always show, at least at the time, maybe now months months after it does idk

[balmy condor]

seal fate isn't that strong for raids

[echo geyser]

🥶

[ebon notch]

can u not doxx me pls

[echo geyser]

i follow u on wowprogress

[ebon notch]

no shot

[echo geyser]

highest ilvl rogue EU west

[ebon notch]

[echo geyser]

[ebon notch]

actually its all of the west

not just eu west

[clever hollow]

272 Phial

[ebon notch]

would you like me to magic another trinket out of my ass

[echo geyser]

fix the belt mog tho

[ebon notch]

done

update me

i relogged

[clever hollow]

Yea I'll trade you for whatever duped bullshit I get tuesday

[echo geyser]

🥶

[ebon notch]

night elves are too tall compared to belf bro

[limber lion]

ram can you give me some gear please

daps refuses to help a brotha out

[echo geyser]

i still dont know what im gonna take to raid tomorrow

[ebon notch]

my guy

they separated us

i already committed a ryg dagger to him as well

[limber lion]

screenshotting this

[ebon notch]

[spice spire]

Mfs threatened by you Cev

Daps an opp

[ebon notch]

@spice spire how you doin

i paid for your asmr tier on onlyfans

when you delivering

[spice spire]

I am a man of god

You think I have THE SITE?

Nah

[ebon notch]

i mean ur here my guy

[spice spire]

[hollow river]

ramfam pushing glad before seasons over?

[echo geyser]

thats daps, hes in a different league

[bleak sky]

daps pvps?

[spice spire]

Daps has a WoW problem

[strange python]

Better than a basketball problem

I heard he got dunked on

[ebon notch]

i hit 1950

i can go higher but

it makes me want to die

[hollow river]

why

[plush delta]

rogue tree also has no decision option nodes (the octagon ones)... need some of those

[bleak sky]

dev thinking about it

[wide ridge]

wait youre right

[ebon notch]

because i dont have the muscle memory/logic for pvp

i havent built it up

so stuff that i want to do is actually just garbage

and makes no sense

[limber lion]

I just personally dislike WoW PvP

I enjoy PvP in other games, but not a fan of WoW PvP

[ebon notch]

pvp me irl

[limber lion]

GW2 PvP great

ArcheAge PvP amazing

[limber lion]

[bleak sky]

i got 50 on daps

[ebon notch]

thats my boy

[spice spire]

Ain’t no way

My mans SERGEANT Cev is losing this

[ebon notch]

hes gonna finger me to death

on god

[spice spire]

Putting the house on Cev

[bleak sky]

[spice spire]

Ayo?

🤨

[ebon notch]

wow

unsubbing from ur christian onlyfans

[spice spire]

My brother In Christ, that’s the Bible

And I’m a member of that onlyfan

[hollow river]

ah true that

i've been wanting to get into pvp if i get back into the game in s4

been taking a break

[blazing totem]

is this official?

[balmy condor]

the dev mentioned it

realistically it makes no difference to anyone who isn't going to level a new rogue though

would help if you're like level 20

[strange python]

Hear me out. Skip atrophic poison, get more dpd

Dps

[balmy condor]

the parse fiends are going to go nuts

"why the fuck would I take feint, that's a dps loss"

[lucid birch]

makes sense

[strange python]

Zoldyck and doomblade over atrophic. Yuge

[thorny pond]

Not like we bring much utility now

They won’t notice if we skip our new one

[kind talon]

oh shit its beach

been a while bud

[green harbor]

ironically, in current game, venomous wounds is level 40-ish and assa is practically unplayable until then

[oak sky]

You say my name?

[bleak sky]

You're taking and not using, it's different

[hollow river]

Cold Blood+TTB gonna be op in pvp

[bleak sky]

pvp I schleep

[hollow river]

kinda surprised ttb made it in as a capstone

[oak sky]

Surprised isnt the word i would use

Maybe disgusted

[hollow river]

my VERY HOT TAKE on a sin build

[oak sky]

🔥

[bleak sky]

I just don't see how we don't take Dr poison

[hollow river]

parse whoring

[bleak sky]

I really want to run this build but can't justify it

[hollow river]

in farm

[bleak sky]

For farm for sure

[thorny pond]

Still skips sepsis

[oak sky]

No ct but also no maim and blindside

[hollow river]

pure ST

also taking dance+maim or doomblade is somewhat questionable

[bleak sky]

Sepsis

[oak sky]

Oh you took dance

[thorny pond]

#assassination will do anything to remain ST chads only

[hollow river]

ya LOL

i want to ambush more

kek

[oak sky]

Wdym i play carnage in st

[thorny pond]

Shadow dance exsang press garrote harder

[hollow river]

YES

i want all the hot takes

whatever makes more fun

[thorny pond]

Uber high haste

[oak sky]

If you want hot takes actually take ttb

[latent dew]

subterfur maybe=?

[thorny pond]

Exsang dance NS

[hollow river]

would have to lose good stuff to take

[thorny pond]

Unironically make us a 2min spec

[latent dew]

I just think deathmark+sub would be fine

[oak sky]

Exsang

[latent dew]

Maybe cold blood for that "loss"

[bleak sky]

Exsang apologists

[hollow river]

would have to lose 20% poison damage or 2 points in alacrity to get subt

[oak sky]

Imma be real witcha i dont even want dance

[thorny pond]

Exsang should have been aborted but both blizzard and my mom made poor choices

[hollow river]

same kinda

since we can't CDR dance

it's kinda ehhhh

[bleak sky]

Same
I want big fucking fat mutilates

[hollow river]

really good for outlaw for CTO procs

but for us it's meh

[latent dew]

Also it seems like dance would benefit from sub no'

?

[oak sky]

I would kinda assume thistle tea either gets replaced or becomes something better

And we probably play that

[oak sky]

So hype that outlaw got cto back

[thorny pond]

Helps in opener or recovery in target changes

[hollow river]

yeah but we wouldn't have dance up enough for it to matter

[oak sky]

I mean it was expected but its still hype

[hollow river]

same same

[thorny pond]

Outlaw is in ruins right now

[hollow river]

what\

their tree is insane

[thorny pond]

All ambush builds

No I meant the channel

[bleak sky]

Subterfuge?

[hollow river]

oh

[hollow river]

ye

[thorny pond]

Too many talents

[oak sky]

The ambush builds have really cool synergies and stuff tho

And they also have keep it rolling

[thorny pond]

And I have to explain to my mouth breathers why outlaw won’t take restless crew

[hollow river]

[thorny pond]

Sorry no tyrant for you

[oak sky]

Restless crew is for sure getting reworked bro

[thorny pond]

I need that point

I hope it gets buffed

Really put peer pressure on us to take it

[bleak sky]

Dance won't proc subterfuge

[hollow river]

umm

it does in game

for sub

or no?

[thorny pond]

Sin doesn’t stealth enough for subt to make sense

[hollow river]

exactly

[thorny pond]

Outlaw it’s insane. Positive synergy

[thorny pond]

Subt for outlaw is for vanish

Dance is for ambush spam

They like it regardless but thank you for the clarification

[hollow river]

we no longer get subt garrotes either

just carnage

[bleak sky]

Yeah but unless I misread someone was thinking about dance benefitting from subterfuge right

Anyway

[toxic quail]

hey im new to rogue, is assa bis in DF? i wanna gear mine up now for 10.1 raid.

[thorny pond]

Yea if we got big garrotes maybe. Dance for sin is kinda bleh

[bleak sky]

Yes

[hollow river]

ITS TOO EARLY FOR THAT OPTION

[bleak sky]

Good to see a shaman main coming to rogue

[toxic quail]

hahahah enhance gonna be dead in the water

i already know itr

[thorny pond]

Shaman rerollers are just boomkin rerollers

[toxic quail]

so back to rogue baby

[hollow river]

shaman bring totem

totem good

[toxic quail]

this was my 1st tier not playing rogue and i got CE as a new enhance so ill take it

and i was top melee on our kill

so i was poppin off

[hollow river]

oo congratz

[thorny pond]

They always come back

[toxic quail]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/naB41GkCfPNbD8mg#fight=10&type=damage-done

[thorny pond]

We’re the abusive ex who shows up with flowers

[toxic quail]

Minal got me hooked on Outlaw BB though

[thorny pond]

But will spit on your fries during the first date

[toxic quail]

i hate snapshotting so no ass for me

[thorny pond]

Weakaura for that

[toxic quail]

ill watch on the side like a gentleman

[hollow river]

outlaw bb is giga fun

[toxic quail]

oh i got weakauras. i just think its outdated shit mechanics

[bleak sky]

Outlaw bb pew pew pew

Good stuff

[hollow river]

ye i enjoy it

[thorny pond]

Outlaw BB is straight up crack and when they remove it, there will be riots

[hollow river]

i dislike the snapshotting stuff too

i'm glad i learned sub decently this tier

[toxic quail]

like im the biggest assa simp and think its the best rogue spec for days. but i cant support no snapshot. i barely deal with it on my feral.

[latent dew]

I still think its a posibility due to the tooltip from the talent

[hollow river]

from Deathmark?

kinda doubt it

feel like it will be made to not overhang

[bleak sky]

Subterfuge with shadow dance? Is that what you're referring to?

[latent dew]

ye

[hollow river]

oh woops

[latent dew]

but in an aoe situation

Not st

[bleak sky]

@latent dew

[hollow river]

why would aoe situation matter

[thorny pond]

If we get a sick M* build and a good raid build… I’ll be so happy

[latent dew]

m+ lol

[hollow river]

no i meant

what difference does that make

with the talents

[bleak sky]

What he means is there's no diff between AOE and st

[latent dew]

Breaking my dreams a bit, but dunno

[hollow river]

oh just from restealths?

[bleak sky]

That's the dev

[latent dew]

😦

[balmy condor]

This is actually disgusting

Ambush nodes? No blindside
Rather take dance than seal fate vigor

[hollow river]

disgustingly GOOD

[strange python]

Dance being in the base tree is gonna cause some weird shit

Like outlaw spamming ambush with dance subterfuge

[thorny pond]

That’s fun though

It has opened up conversations and theories we otherwise wouldn’t have

[bleak sky]

New stuff, new interactions

Good change

[echo geyser]

sin has double step now right (dragonlands)

[deft flicker]

Outlaw spamming shadow dance with like 15s cooldown and full dice

[thorny pond]

Even if half of it gets nuked or sucks it’s still a big leap from where we are

[bleak sky]

Aye aye captain

[echo geyser]

comfy

[balmy condor]

Dance on sin feels questionable to me atm because the nightstalker points are weaker than the finisher energy points for sure

But without it the dance doesn’t really do anything

Not really sure how to tie it together meaningfully

[hollow river]

yeah i prob wouldnt actually take dance

its just a meme build that i think would be fun to play

[thorny pond]

Is there even good ambush synergy for sin?

[hollow river]

not really

we have mut synergy

[thorny pond]

So it’s a mutilate replacement

[hollow river]

there's 1 node in outlaw class tree

[thorny pond]

In stealth

[hollow river]

that gives ambush dmg

[thorny pond]

Yea outlaw it makes sense

[hollow river]

no

[thorny pond]

Sin I couldn’t see a reason

[hollow river]

its in the class tree

[thorny pond]

Right

[hollow river]

but down the middle

improved ambush

[thorny pond]

I’m saying outlaw ambush makes sense

Sin ambush does not

[hollow river]

ehhh

kinda

[thorny pond]

But it’s not like sin gets some buff or synergy from ambush was what I was getting at

It’s just a stealth damage builder

[balmy condor]

ambush is significantly weaker than it is now based on current tree I think

[deft flicker]

Sin gets some garrote stealth synergy though which can be used with shadow dance

[thorny pond]

If they gave sin ambush some soul of the forest talent that may be cool

[hollow river]

blindside talent

[balmy condor]

I mean I simply don't think blindside can keep up

ever

[hollow river]

yeah i agree

[thorny pond]

Ambush needs another effect for sin

[balmy condor]

this doesn't work on ambush

and so it instantly just makes ambush gutter trash

[hollow river]

it's either blindside or zoldycks practically

[balmy condor]

maim is mut

doomblade is mut

[hollow river]

(without using middle row at all)

[balmy condor]

venom rush is mut

mut has like 4 or 5 direct buffs

that make it go bonkers

and ambush has like

blindside and +1 cp

[thorny pond]

Yea it’s just not competing. Shadow dance garrote for cleave AoE I guess

[balmy condor]

very cool

[balmy condor]

yeah this was the TC idea as well

but even that is like

ehhhhhhhhhh

[thorny pond]

Sounds clunky

[balmy condor]

there is no guarantee that this works with dance

[thorny pond]

And give up too much to get there

[balmy condor]

I would actually wager to say it probably won't work with dance

so then what

you get nightstalker?

[marble hemlock]

if they add some connectors to the center path of the tree so you can more easily pick up the 4cp ambush node, then blindside would be pretty decent value imo

smth like this

[latent dew]

Man it would feel monotonous then

[thorny pond]

Dance shouldn’t have to work with all 3 specs super well

Sin being worst dance spec is honestly fine

[hollow river]

yes it should

if its in the main class tree

there should be synergies 100%

[deft flicker]

Based on what they said about Outlaw’s similar talent (Haste in and after stealth) dance will only give the “in stealth” part, not the “after stealth”

[thorny pond]

You can take it and use it but it doesn’t have to have big synergies. It will allow garrote spread and that avenue

But it doesn’t mean it needs to be our best

[balmy condor]

the alternative would be you get a 9 second subterfuge every minute instead of a 3 second subterfuge every 2 minutes

which sounds a little crazy to me

[marble hemlock]

depending on the AP tuning for garrote, 2 extra garrotes (one at the start and one at the end of dance) every minute already seems pretty solid

nothing groundbreaking ofc

[balmy condor]

like the way I see dance on the sin tree

is you take nightstalker

and then dance is just a damage buff for 9 seconds

[marble hemlock]

ye

you have it every second deathmark

[balmy condor]

(no that does not make exsang good)

[thorny pond]

Which is solid around our two min rotation

[latent dew]

its crtazy itself, but make it feels a bit better to play ti i think

[marble hemlock]

you get to deathmark imp garrotes and NS ruptures

like, thats not too shabby

[latent dew]

Also with that one which maskes aoe garrote

[marble hemlock]

main issue is that whispyr is hardcoping on tight spenders

[thorny pond]

That’s like a damage amp spec

[marble hemlock]

cause he really likes that 1 extra mutilate every 2 minutes

[balmy condor]

well yes, of course it feels better you're literally buffing subterfuge by 600%

who new that crazy more damage felt better

[thorny pond]

Fight design kills a lot of potential fun with it

[latent dew]

#MakeSinGreatAgain

[balmy condor]

where is your ambush damage boomer

sin is great again

what are you on

this tree is great

[marble hemlock]

why do you love tight spenders so much

its so... garbage

gives you like 1 extra mutilate a minute, if were being generous

[latent dew]

i mean top spec xd

[balmy condor]

what in your definition is a tight spender

[latent dew]

Just dreaming around

[marble hemlock]

the talent

15% energy cost reduction

of finishers

[balmy condor]

oh

[marble hemlock]

dumbo

[balmy condor]

cause energy is good

[hollow river]

[marble hemlock]

yeah but like

4energy every envenom

3 every rupture

[balmy condor]

me and koji looked at and insta were like "yeah that's good"

[marble hemlock]

how often do you finish a minute with shit crit and shit haste

so you gain what

[bleak sky]

I don't need a minute to finish

[marble hemlock]

maybe 30 energy a minute?

if you finish 10times a minute

[bleak sky]

[balmy condor]

sure

[marble hemlock]

how is .5energy/sec "good"

[balmy condor]

because 20% nighstalker is "bad"

[marble hemlock]

but with the new subter talent you can gain NS benefit on both rupture and garrote each deathmark

[hollow river]

[balmy condor]

no you can't

because that's not how subterfuge works

ya dingus

[thorny pond]

NS will only be first ability

Subt allows stealth abilities

[marble hemlock]

oh i thought the new split of imp garrote/subter changed it

to make stealth last 3sec

mustve misremembered

NS is still better than half an energy regen

[balmy condor]

not according to me and koji

[marble hemlock]

who?

[balmy condor]

it wasn't even an argument when we saw it

we just insta wrote it off

in aoe? in m+? sure

yeah

you have energy

you don't care

that's fine

[marble hemlock]

sec

need to kill a big turtle

[thorny pond]

So CT is back on the ST menu?

[bleak sky]

If good sure

If possible I'm not taking it

[thorny pond]

I hate CT ST

[balmy condor]

yes

[thorny pond]

Make PB legion again

[balmy condor]

currently it is

maybe venom rush is strong enough

[bleak sky]

Wasn't it rng fiesta?

[balmy condor]

but I don't think so

[thorny pond]

PB should totally RNG my way to #1 ability

[balmy condor]

if you drop CT you get venom rush

that's the trade

[bleak sky]

Dev said something about buffing venom rush right

[thorny pond]

Frick

[balmy condor]

not that I know of

[thorny pond]

I hate VR

[bleak sky]

Maybe I'm mistaking it for buffing VW

Instead of VR

[balmy condor]

he didn't want to buff that either

he wanted to move VW higher into the tree

[bleak sky]

:hmm:

Yeah and returning to old value or something like that

Found

[balmy condor]

yeah I see

but yeah VR at 8

is actually quite good

this sentence scares me

buffs to dance are pretty closely related to buff to exsang

[obtuse robin]

[balmy condor]

[lucid birch]

buffing exsang.....

[bleak sky]

How to fit dr poison in here

[lucid birch]

[marble hemlock]

dunno, the more i think about it, the more i like dance for assa

[bleak sky]

I don't feel like dropping anything on this tree

[balmy condor]

remove doom/maim

[bleak sky]

No I want those

[balmy condor]

then quit bitching about not having the raid util idk

[bleak sky]

Big Mut good

[balmy condor]

I think it could be interesting

but if it ends up just being a big damage buff and 30% ma

[marble hemlock]

with 4cp ambush

[balmy condor]

then I'm fucking out

[marble hemlock]

thats some good builders

and deathmark should give enough regen with VW

to be able to spam ambush

during dance

[balmy condor]

it's pretty cute of you to think ambush is gonna ever roll 4cp

with what crit

[marble hemlock]

2cp base, +2 with talent?

[balmy condor]

+1 with talent

[bleak sky]

Seal of fate delivers for sure

[echo geyser]

maim

[balmy condor]

talent is 2 points, 50% chance, 100% chance for 1 additional cp

[marble hemlock]

reading is hard

[lucid birch]

ambush dead

[bleak sky]

But my mutilate mr streamer

[echo geyser]

what the heck is venom rush again

i see u put 1 point

[bleak sky]

-8 cost of mutilate

[echo geyser]

i see

[marble hemlock]

yeah ill be honest, half of these talents are uselesss

if they dont change it so they work for mut+ambush

[echo geyser]

wait u didnt even take CT

[bleak sky]

No

[limber lion]

He did tease that possibility.

[echo geyser]

i thought ct was good with this

[bleak sky]

We all in on mut for this one ram

[echo geyser]

[marble hemlock]

ye i know

[balmy condor]

it is

[bleak sky]

Good build comes later

[marble hemlock]

venom rush at least needs to wrok with ambush

[strange python]

First time in months I've seen sin channel more active than sub

[limber lion]

Shit talent, doesn't matter

[marble hemlock]

idk

[echo geyser]

how is ur base rogue tree looking with this

[marble hemlock]

people love tight spenders

and venom rush is just a point away

[bleak sky]

I didn't build it

Let me think sec

[balmy condor]

this is the wrong move

most of your ambush value is blindside

ambush doesn't need to cost less

it needs to be better

[echo geyser]

@marble hemlock what are u thinking about cheat death situation?

[balmy condor]

blindside currently is worthless and those ambushes are -50 cost

[limber lion]

Cheat is a must have

[strange python]

Chest death dead and gone

Cheat

More DPS always

Fuck cheat fuck dr poison

[limber lion]

Dead dps = no dps

[strange python]

Only dmg ook ook

[lucid birch]

yeah dont need feint either

[strange python]

Yep

Just don't get hit

4head

[limber lion]

The chad move is picking feint on the talents but not binding it

[echo geyser]

i hate not being able to go up from here to acro

[strange python]

I do think it'll be funny to see people swap out of cheat, feint, and DR poison for more damage in farm

[balmy condor]

they can't swap out of feint

[echo geyser]

should work with atro poison right

[strange python]

Sure ya can. Master poisoner :)

[balmy condor]

that's not damage either

[marble hemlock]

i mean

[strange python]

But it's not feint

[marble hemlock]

MP doesnt work with numbing so

[strange python]

So when I take damage I can say I don't have feint

[echo geyser]

what

[balmy condor]

why the fuck are we feint haters now

[strange python]

Because I want to have no buttons on my bars except damage

[marble hemlock]

i dont care about cheat

[balmy condor]

then play a different game idk

[echo geyser]

jigachad

[marble hemlock]

depending on the overall tuning of dps to player health, 12% leech is pretty solid

[balmy condor]

raid will have nothing but one shots

and seli can leech from the floor

[marble hemlock]

anyway

basically, the way i see it, ambush is fine enough of a button, its just that it doesnt have any synergies, currently. if it does, i dont see how blindside would be bad, we played it early in CN because our resource gen is low, and free resources are nice

[bleak sky]

Unsure if trolling or actual 2head take

[marble hemlock]

3cp ambush+2cp mut, even without sealfate, gets you full CP as well

[limber lion]

That's the thing Seli

[marble hemlock]

so thats pretty decent

[limber lion]

Blindside is good, Ambush is bad.

[balmy condor]

^

[limber lion]

If Ambush was better, Blindside would be a lot better as well

[marble hemlock]

its mostly an issue of opportunity cost, since most of the talents that you would consider to be synergetic, are on different sides of the tree

[bleak sky]

But unsure what to finish with ram

[balmy condor]

blindside currently is an energy gain talent

[bleak sky]

And idk how to make the tree GOODER for big mut

[balmy condor]

if you want it to do damage

you need to buff ambush damage

[echo geyser]

@bleak sky

[strange python]

Lower feint/vial cost over MP?

[marble hemlock]

i.e. if the 50% nature conversion thingy and doomblade work with ambush, its nice. if we get 8 energy back from a free ambush cause it works with venom rush, thats nice

[echo geyser]

hows that exactly what i have

30/31

[bleak sky]

1 point is useless

Pepeladf

[marble hemlock]

people are drooling over 15% energy cost reduction on finishers, which gives you like half an energy a second overall, but feel like 8energy return would be bad? i dont get it

[deft flicker]

Get the tea

[strange python]

More alacrity

[bleak sky]

No lmao tea is fucking bad

[balmy condor]

who said venom rush was bad

[marble hemlock]

id drop a cttc point to get venom rush

i mean, we currently dont pick it

in our raid tree

[strange python]

You're 2/3 alacrity

[limber lion]

That's pretty spicy

[marble hemlock]

and cev called it a shit talent

[bleak sky]

Pretty sure you don't need 20% to keep it up 100%

[balmy condor]

I mean it's pretty boring design

[limber lion]

It is pretty boring

[bleak sky]

So there's nothing else on the tree

[marble hemlock]

oh for sure

its super bland

[strange python]

Then drop cheat for deeper

[balmy condor]

but it is numerically pretty good

[marble hemlock]

but its also really good

[deft flicker]

Yes but when the raid wipes you can press vanish and have something to drink while everyone runs back

[marble hemlock]

the only reason we didnt play it up until now is cause it competes with alac

and its a single point

[bleak sky]

Listen I'm inting by making a big mutilate tree, in not gonna double dip on the int and drop cheat

[marble hemlock]

and honestly

i really dont like the left side tree

[strange python]

Idk. Memes aside I think the "cheat is mandatory" stuff is overblown

[marble hemlock]

the class tree i mean

it has a bunch of useless talents

[bleak sky]

It's not for me, I'm not a perfect player

[strange python]

Many other melee don't have cheat or a cheat equivalent and have had to adjust

[balmy condor]

you're talking about the cold blood side?

[marble hemlock]

ye

[bleak sky]

And cheat allows you to greed if you want to

[balmy condor]

are you smoking crack

[marble hemlock]

only good thing about it is 20% wepaon poison

and vigor

[bleak sky]

Staying alive is good

[marble hemlock]

fuck crit

fuck sealfate

[limber lion]

Wtf

[strange python]

Seal fate giga??

[limber lion]

[echo geyser]

do i have to get 2 points cut to the chase ? i gotta drop doomblade then

[strange python]

Cold blood meh tho

[balmy condor]

what you taking instead seli? fucking dance and 4% vers

gtfo

[echo geyser]

can i just have 1 more point

[limber lion]

Yes, one point is not enough to maintain Slice

[marble hemlock]

looking at the new assa tree, i see the value of mastery and haste rising pretty hard. going "full crit" like we used to all expac just to make that shit line work, when we have decent alternatives now because we can potentially find non-sealfate builds, seems like a good thing to me

[echo geyser]

doomblade would work with this?

[strange python]

Theoretically but who knows

[bleak sky]

I think so yeah

[limber lion]

Probs

[bleak sky]

Doomblade is another bleed right

[balmy condor]

you realize that taking crit nodes makes crit less important yes?

[strange python]

I'm curious if a CT, Doomblade, Maim build would be good

[echo geyser]

yeah i member from castle nathria

[marble hemlock]

not needing high cp gen also makes crit less important

[bleak sky]

I think you have to drop maim for this build, not enough points to get it all

[balmy condor]

from where seli

[limber lion]

Yes, not sure about Maim though.

[balmy condor]

blindside?

[marble hemlock]

ttk exists now

9sec envenoms should alleviate the need for high cp gen quite a bit

[balmy condor]

what

[obtuse robin]

does fok count as a melee attack?

[marble hemlock]

we can jump on voice and i can explain my thought process if you want

[balmy condor]

I mean I get your thought process

I just think you're wrong

[marble hemlock]

GET OUT OF MY HEAD

[lucid birch]

we could get on voice and talk about our feelings

[marble hemlock]

i have none