assassination

[vestal wren]

esp. now with the lower crit %

[ruby oyster]

because its low in the tree and will be picked often anyway, thats my guess

[kind talon]

it wouldnt extend MA

[dark token]

The reason there is confusion is cause MA existed as a legendary in legion

[vestal wren]

i know, just hypothetical

[kind talon]

subterfuge probably low value talent

[vestal wren]

the problem with subterfuge is that you need to invest 2 points to get to it

thats why it would potentially make sense to make it more powerful

interacting with ma could do that

[dark token]

Also if shadow dance didn't grant MA it would be trash for sin and never taken

It's not like this is a hidden op thing haha

[vestal wren]

ambush isn't that great for sin for sure

[ruby oyster]

i wouldnt mind not ever taking SD for assa

[toxic locust]

realz talked about wanting to add more incentive for a dance build for sin

[strange python]

One of the things i hate about sub is the reliance on it...i couldn't imagine that spilling over into sin

[kind talon]

i mean it would just give 32% damage with NS

which is like really good

[toxic locust]

sub is reliant on it because it has talents like enveloping shadow/dark shadow, plus 50% shadow damage buff on evis and black powder

[vestal wren]

vendetta + dance stacking

[placid cobalt]

did u guys notice we haven't got any of those "choose one" traits? is that intended or?

[toxic locust]

it is

here

[glass tulip]

Would have throughly enjoyed a choice for sepsis/flag/sbs

But overall tree looks pretty strong and definitely excited to get to play with it

[ebon notch]

at least a node that follows sepsis that empowers it

cause otherwise its just a dot

[glass tulip]

Who are you

[ebon notch]

at least on the outlaw tree they reduce its cd with restless blades

[glass tulip]

I only listen to my dapspman

[ebon notch]

im new here sry

[glass tulip]

Yeah outlaw CDR is scary

[strange python]

Who is Realz?

[sinful cradle]

Dev

[strange python]

ahh gotcha

[viscid spear]

No one is Realz
This is the Matrix

[subtle kiln]

@ebon notch daddy

[sinful cradle]

I heard daps got absolutely dunked on by Realz last night

[subtle kiln]

maybe

[sinful cradle]

[glass tulip]

what spot were they talking about

[ebon notch]

in my defense

how often deos a blizz dev ask my opinon

[toxic locust]

more often than the vast majority of players, clearly

[vestal wren]

i got quite some good alternatives for sub talents

[subtle kiln]

I enjoyed his interactions with all of us. not always the answer we wanted but had good explanations. hopefully felhammer was kind to him.

[toxic locust]

of the tens of millions of players wow has ever had, you're one of the few that a blizzard dev has ever asked an opinion of

[vestal wren]

in fact a post on wowhead with a lot of options 😛

[ebon notch]

yeah

unlucko

[subtle kiln]

➡️ #subtlety

[ebon notch]

at least we got good memes out of it

[vestal wren]

but tbh, i think the sin tree has some nice talents

[strange python]

Yeah i read back through - and I gotta commend him. I'm sure he involved us all because of his passion and love for the game...which is good to see. Restores me some faith anyway.

[toxic locust]

i never thought i'd say this but

hearing that realz is in charge of the dh tree made me look forward to dh tree

just a bit

[subtle kiln]

i think a lot of the old timers are just happy to see a near completely set of trees before there’s an alpha

[strange python]

I was sure that rogue trees would be announced dead last...and thrown together last minute.

[toxic locust]

yea, there's room for improvement but if it went live like this we'd be golden

[strange python]

Every build i do though, i want like 2-3 more points

Maybe they could take a page out of diablo immortal's book - and let us by 2-3 more points for like $100,000 USD each or something.

[subtle kiln]

havoc has had one of the most complete set of talents / moveable parts of any spec. demon hunters are just cringe

[toxic locust]

yea i just... never liked havoc

[strange python]

dh is the only class i've never even tried.

and i'm so tempted to use my boost on one

[subtle kiln]

momentum is fantastic. people just want to stand still.

so that word triggers the discord.

[toxic locust]

i've heard bad things about fel hammer

[glass tulip]

crayon eaters

[toxic locust]

sounds like the average DH player to me

[bleak sky]

this was just beautiful

[subtle kiln]

i’m very curious to see what, if anything, that was discussed gets implemented

legit some healthy discussion

[glass tulip]

all I know if that with DR poison I just have to be the best assassin in the guild and im in

[spice spire]

I think some will change.
Even if it’s just, venomous moved. He seemed interested in shrouded as well

[glass tulip]

one tricking pays off

[spice spire]

Would be kind of a goat move tbh

[toxic locust]

there was apparently some reason kingsbane didn't come back, but that he'd reconsider it

i miss kingsbane

[subtle kiln]

i think it helps max mentioning ss as well

since he’s an old pvper I do wonder if focus on sub will gravitate more that direction (ie no raid buff)

[spice spire]

I think the exact verbiage was “a lot of people were asking for this, why is it so beloved/powerful?”

Which is a good approach

They have a roar

[toxic locust]

sin has atrophic poison, sub has a roar and outlaw has restless crew

[strange python]

so we can use two poisons per weapon right - with the right talent?

[toxic locust]

yup

[subtle kiln]

i guess the roar is a buff lol

[strange python]

That sounds fun

[toxic locust]

so you can use deadly, amplifying, atrophic and wound poison or w/e

[strange python]

and i guess 5 total if we use leeching

[toxic locust]

yup

[subtle kiln]

double step as assa already goat

[glass tulip]

6 whenever we can get flayedwing toxin again as a trinket

[toxic locust]

sub and sin having 2 steps and outlaw having 1 step/1 hook is god tier

[foggy solstice]

Hey guys do u think assa rogue will be ok season 4

[subtle kiln]

sure

[vestal wren]

sub probably won't go 2 steps

while sin will have it almost always

what is kinda funny

[bleak sky]

@subtle kiln dev also seemed intrigued by kingsbane

[glass tulip]

yes, more than fine

[subtle kiln]

yea

[bleak sky]

so between moving vw up, tweaking with shrouded suff and kingsbane, tree seems real interesting

and after seeing the rogue tree i'm big hyped for dh tree

[subtle kiln]

@vestal wren without going too far into sub talk here, curious where number tuning will fall. all the builder spam and energy return. 🤢

[bleak sky]

and the dude typed a bunch in dh discord as well, ngl this is pretty damn nice

[toxic locust]

yea he's confirmed the dev for both rogue and dh

[bleak sky]

ya, priest as well it seems

[strange python]

does he actually play a rogue, do we know

[bleak sky]

said he does

[strange python]

that's nice

[bleak sky]

nvm, just rogue dh

[toxic locust]

you know, it just hit me that rogues have kick baseline

i didn't even realize

kick baseline, shiv gone

[strange python]

i mean imagine having to spend a point on it

[toxic locust]

for non sin specs

[vestal wren]

tbh, my main concern atm is the lack of intersection paths in the tree, the missing "multiple choice" nodes, the lack of strong non sl options and sin/outlaw having a raid buff (for sub)

[toxic locust]

multiple choices nodes will come back

[strange python]

i wouldn't get kick haha

[subtle kiln]

pretty sure he was in SK gaming 12 years ago

[bleak sky]

legit trolling

[subtle kiln]

i can see the different buffs as a way to avoid stacking rogues. idk. i’ve given up mentally in sub being a pve (raid) spec

[glass tulip]

good, if we collectively decide sub is bad for raid it will spread to the diseased RL brains who want you to "be able to play all 3 specs for progression"

[subtle kiln]

you should be able to

you have 1 job. dps

[strange python]

I can play 2 of the 3...i just don't dig the pirate stuff so

[glass tulip]

same ghost

no weapon = no pirate

[strange python]

I mean i've like put on pox and another good wep, and like did my dailies, built weakauras...it just feels off to me so.

[subtle kiln]

practice

[strange python]

sin is just too smooth man

[subtle kiln]

venthyr bussy is fun

[strange python]

it's like d3 - once i played dh, i couldn't play anything else. I feel that way about sin and wow.

[subtle kiln]

a lot of rogues just want one spec to do everything and only play it. i understand

[bleak sky]

playing other specs can help with your main one

[strange python]

I don't dislike sub at all

and if sin failed to exist, i'd play it

[keen tree]

Is assassination going to be competitive with sub and outlaw for M+ in s4? I’ve not been keeping up with things.

[uneven hamlet]

The dude actually talked with us like a normal being, that is neat

[subtle tundra]

if no tuning, no

its playable ofc but not at the highest level

[keen tree]

Damn 😦

[subtle tundra]

no aoe does that to a mf

[keen tree]

God I just want to play sin in m+ … I don’t raid.

Like ghost I’m not a fan of pirates

[subtle tundra]

well

are you currently doing 29s+?

[subtle kiln]

you can play it

[subtle tundra]

i assure you i could time 30s with assa

[craggy oak]

Varas you hyped for the sin m+ dream so far?

[keen tree]

No 15-20 is my range but a)community perception will be an issue as I pug and b) I’d like to do well on dps meters

[subtle tundra]

but i'd rather plays whats better

[subtle tundra]

if youre a good player you will outdps any pug at that key range

[subtle kiln]

if people are playing arms warrior in m+ you can play assa

[subtle tundra]

the player skill at 15-20 is very low this season

[keen tree]

Me too so I need to learn another spec for m+.. outlaw I guess? /shudder

[subtle tundra]

youre doing 15-20s....

no need 🙂

[craggy oak]

Sin aoe is also just much harder to get the most out of than the other two spes

[keen tree]

Need is a very subjective word…. Technically no need… but I don’t like to know I could be playing something better

[subtle tundra]

i mean

[craggy oak]

Outlaw performs worse the lower you go

[subtle tundra]

i can assure you, you being outlaw/sub wont time more keys in low keys

as a person who has pugged thousands of assa keys

like literal thousands

[bleak sky]

survival 🤝 destro

varas

[subtle tundra]

and i think i've been kicked from a group cause i was assa around 5 times over the course of 2 expansions

[keen tree]

I’m not the best player so I just figured gimping myself even further with a less than optimal spec might be a bad idea but I take your point.

[subtle tundra]

i think playing what you enjoy matters most when youre not pushing the highest possible

[strange python]

I run most of my m+ as sin

My goal is only 20's so

Heck i did them all last season on 22-23

I just got a late start this season

like 3 resets ago late start...

[keen tree]

I have the same goal but I’d like to be competitive on meters. But I understand what you guys are saying and that is encouraging.

[strange python]

i mean you're gonna do just fine on the meters in a 18-20

I've been top dmg done in a 18 and timed it by like 6 mins

[keen tree]

Oh ok that’s the upper end of my current ambition!

[strange python]

any time someone is doing more dmg than me, i just get really happy

[subtle tundra]

mate... the player skill is very low in that key range

[strange python]

yeah

[subtle tundra]

like those people dont do good damage

[keen tree]

I am one of those low skill players 🙂

[strange python]

as long as 66% of your dps knows what they're doing you're fine

dmg-wise

[keen tree]

Honestly - I have the ambition but not the skill. I’m gonna try harder this season.

[strange python]

i mean start low

you gotta remember that like going into this season, i've probably run 500+ m+ as assasination you know

everywhere from 0 to 23

[keen tree]

I got my surv hunter to 2.85k rio but got bored and fell in to my usual altoholic trap

[strange python]

it just takes time to get used to the pulls and the timings and everything

[keen tree]

Fair point and good advice

[strange python]

well that's what i did at the start of this season

[subtle tundra]

like i was gonna start playing feral for fun

[strange python]

i played a priest...cause my guild wanted me to heal...

[subtle tundra]

but season ends soon unfortunately

[strange python]

i mean i'm really good at healing but

it's just NOT fun outside of actual raid environment so

[keen tree]

I ended up getting ksm on 5 classes because I keep skipping around. I’ve been doing this since vanilla but I really want to stop doing it

[strange python]

lol yeah - nothing worse than like earning the veiled augment rune on a toon...then switching and beind like 27,000 rep back

[keen tree]

Yup that’s exactly it

I thought maybe something that can heal and dps would be best but rogue was my first love so it’s always on the list for being my main

[strange python]

lol that was me last season

[keen tree]

I’ve been anti non-dagger since combat rogue days.. maybe I should try outlaw …

[keen tree]

Holy cow

[strange python]

I mean people were just playing sub though

[keen tree]

Still!

[strange python]

I'm at best like 90% parser...i mean i get my 95's and such but

[keen tree]

In s1 I started to get half decent at sin thanks to poor old @balmy condor humouring my 90k questions and being patient enough to coach me to an ok lvl .. i might do that in s4 🙂

Or - I might try and learn whatever is the meta spec for my m+ range

[strange python]

I mean there's nothing wrong with playing meta

You gotta play what you enjoy at the end of the day

If you enjoy meta, then play it.

[keen tree]

Were you saying outlaw isn’t it for 15-20?

[strange python]

oh i dunno - i just play sin so...but i think i saw people say that outlaw is better in like 2-3 of the dungeons than sub

otherwise sub is better...but they're both super good i'm sure

[keen tree]

Oh i might learn sub then. I remember that as a pvp spec 🙂

But at least it uses daggers

[strange python]

i mean it's not hard at all to m+ as sub

[keen tree]

In legion I remember trying to learn a stupid long opener

For sub

[strange python]

finality and venthyr ... and just like never save your cds unless you have a good reason to be saving them.

[keen tree]

I’ll give it a shot (before returning to sin)

[bleak sky]

what difference does it make

[keen tree]

Class fantasy

[strange python]

I feel the same way - it's just like a "connection" to the character, for me.

[keen tree]

I need to race change. At some point I became a fat orc and I regret it. Will return to undead or maybe go belf for the slutmog

[strange python]

it's like on my shaman, i hate having a dagger lol

belf super pog

[keen tree]

Totally agree but love dagger on my lock

[keen tree]

Yah but in 2004 the chat rang with the sound of ud rogue lfg haha I miss that so undead is always on the list

[strange python]

undead is fun

[keen tree]

But the tmogs look shit compared to belf

[cedar otter]

undead dont work with mogs

[minor tiger]

the pins and faq says crit>mast for m+, but for highers keys, do we stack vers at all? and what about haste? at what point do you stop going for crit and/or mastery?

[spice spire]

When it sims worse

Is a cop out answer but accurate

Our sims are done very well thanks to constant refinement, so when it starts simming that you want different stats, you go different stats

[minor tiger]

right but dungeonslice is shit for simming isnt it? so how exactly would you sim for m+?

[subtle tundra]

@balmy condor what about no seal fate + er build?
same no seal fate + er + shadow dance full mastery m+ build

omg im a genious

[echo geyser]

Is sin new meta in dragonlands?

[fleet whale]

Seems not good

[subtle tundra]

yes, nothing will compete

[fleet whale]

Yeah it’s the meta in DF

[echo geyser]

[subtle tundra]

cry about it

[echo geyser]

I am locking in now

Cant change spec

[subtle tundra]

my ideas will revolutionize the world of warcraft

[echo geyser]

[subtle tundra]

y'all will see

my full garrote

build

[minor tiger]

inb4 garrote 50% of damage in DF

[subtle tundra]

0 crit 1000000000000 mastery

mobs will melt

[echo geyser]

you will no longer garret1 garret 2 garret 3

It will only take 1 garret

[subtle tundra]

i will garret 1 RUPTURE

garrete 2 garrete 3 RUPTURE

[echo geyser]

Deadge target

[toxic locust]

[subtle tundra]

garrete 4 garrete 5 garrete 6 RUPTURE

cause ER

im so smort

all will bow to my intellect

(CAP)

[echo geyser]

9 garret if nelf

[subtle tundra]

i will make assa work

king of aoe

[cursive summit]

Kingsbane would have made a nice addition instead of Sepsiz

Sepsis

Maybe a choice on the Sepsis node of sbs, sepsis, or Kingsbane

[cedar otter]

at multi targets content, worth it garrote 3 targets + vanish + other 3 targets before start rotation ?

do we have enough energy for that ? lol

[thorn fjord]

I wish they brought back kingsbane

[limber lion]

We do have the energy because the garrotes start ticking quickly and you'll be at energy saturation before you know it

but it's not worth it

You should just save your vanish for utility/defensive usage instead of damage.

[cedar otter]

Nice, ty !

[red tinsel]

Yeah WTB Kingsbane back

[cursive summit]

Kingsbane or sepsis would be a nice choice

[vestal wren]

sepsis is in the tree

below doomblade

[toxic locust]

kingsbane is the one thing i really felt was missing

that and shrouded

10/10

[cursive summit]

I know, it should be a choice node

Sepsis or Kingsbane

[vestal wren]

oh

ye, i hope we get some choice nodes

[tropic rover]

This is so true lol

As a DH main. Talents are actually fine, the tuning on our borrowed power this tier was just super unfortunate.

[tropic rover]

I was so excited reading the garrote damage buffs before I realized it wasn't just shrouded coming back :(

[toxic locust]

well, it's most likely coming back

[tropic rover]

I hope so

[toxic locust]

realz's idea was to move VW up and replace it's spot with shrouded CP gain

[lilac haven]

The dev said he's willing to add it without the extra damage. So just the increased cp

[toxic locust]

which is the important part anyway

[lilac haven]

Yeah

[toxic locust]

once that's done, if kingsbane got put somewhere it'd be a perfect tree imo

[tropic rover]

Happy with that for sure

[cursive summit]

Great way to add a choice node to Sin is bringing back Kingsbane

Yo, that talent that makes poisons always apply on attacks when stealth would be kinda whack with Kingsbane

And 2x lethal would add so much damage to Kingsbane

[storm onyx]

Kingsbane instead of Exanguinate was discussed; sounds better imo

[cursive summit]

I kinda like Exsang tho, just wish it was competitive without borrowed power

[storm onyx]

Issue is; Kingsbane was ommitted as a possibility for a reason, not stated why

[brave gyro]

So I wanted to take a crack at a build that's not around ambush / shadow dance, and this is where im at
Depending on tuning, you can drop CT or even go more into execute if you want (and pick extra envenom duration instead of the bottom extra set of poisons talent)

or for even more relaxed gameplay drop a couple nodes for Cut to the Chase

[fleet whale]

Well, were probably not going for shadow dance as sin

unless if ambush damage is like super tuned

[brave gyro]

Wrong screenshot, no cheat death **** xD

altho if u wanna go cheat-less ...

[limber lion]

Yeah the second one looks decent, except you're missing Cut to the Chase on the right side which is a massive dps increase and something we would always pick.

But yeah, looks pretty similar to what we have in the pins :P

[brave gyro]

oh, didn't even see pins hah

Well regardless, feelcrafting with the boys

[fleet whale]

yeah, the sin tree is pretty intuitive i think
of course we don't know the raw numbers, put it seems pretty easy to figure out what talents are ideal

[brave gyro]

Assa and Outlaw seem like the big winners from this

the Sub one is a bit wonky (still better than feral tho )

[cursive summit]

Druid and DK need some iterating on design-wise

Kinda bad compared to the rogue trees

[fleet whale]

those were the two early ones, so I assume blizz is already working on them

[cursive summit]

Can only hope

[brave gyro]

yeah, idk about the whole spec-ing into interrupt and stuff - DK general class tree feels very bare-bones

[blazing totem]

I wish Cut to the Chase was a bit lower since we also pick elaborate, it limits your choices a bit

[limber lion]

nah it's perfect up there

because you want to pick it

and you need to spend points to go down

otherwise you'd have to spec into something dumb that you don't need just to fill up the quota needed to go down the tree

[brave gyro]

same with Shiv and FoK - wish they were swapped around a bit - but I understand why they put it like that.
They need to have aoe spells for leveling

[limber lion]

like Internal Bleeding

[strange python]

if you have to spec INTO your interupt - imagine how many people won't take it

[indigo mulch]

The only thing i'm worried about is assa going back to being a 25apm spec. 😦

[blazing totem]

as demonstrated on the pic above, those 2 points in the upper sections are overkill, would be much better lower

[indigo mulch]

I hope that wont happen but its really really not fun pooling all the time.

[blazing totem]

since you can path down even without picking up cut

[strange python]

What leads you to believe that sin will be 25 apm lol

[storm onyx]

Tbf, 1 slower spec out of 3 is good, we have 2 specs to play if we want to go Spam-fest

[strange python]

I mean I could see an option to be like 50 and an option to be like 70

[limber lion]

Sure, but what would the position change at all

We're still picking CTTC no matter where it is

Doesn't matter if it's 2 points up high or 2 points down the tree

Having it so high up just allows you to do different things like not spec into the middle raid buff tree during m+

[hollow river]

would you really take dashing and extra poison over zoldycks?

[limber lion]

Yes

[strange python]

dashing - i miss so much

[limber lion]

Zoldyck has always been bad in terms of throughput

[indigo mulch]

I don't believe anything. Its way to early. I personally don't enjoy the pooling gameplay. It may or may not exist, but when our haste is low the APM has a tendancy to be very low. Specially early in the first tier. :p

[limber lion]

It's only good for AoE or execute-scenarios in particular

[hollow river]

yeah it just can be good for certain bosses with a tight p3

yeah

agree

but adding wound poison?

[limber lion]

The m+ tree is still a bit out there, we're not super duper sure what we we'll do

[limber lion]

Huh?

[hollow river]

dragon tempered blades

[indigo mulch]

I still feel like fok/ct on the left side while all the multi stuff is in the right side is kinda weird.

[hollow river]

wouldn't that just give you all 4 poisons?

[limber lion]

Just take Instant Poison

[hollow river]

or?

[limber lion]

Don't have to take Wound

[hollow river]

oooho

[limber lion]

also not sure which is better in terms of dps in M+/AOE, Twist the Knife or Amp Poison

[strange python]

I kinda hate seeing all this choice - and then knowing that everything is just gonna be mathematically decided for me anyway

[limber lion]

But Amp Poison has a really, really strong case for it because of other factors.

[strange python]

like i can't get excited

[storm onyx]

How big of negative impact on Zoldcyk; if grp is consistent of other execute classes; by lowering the dmg window where affect is active. Its nice on paper but thats the issue i had witht hat legendary

[strange python]

be nice if it was 100-80 and 20-0

[hollow river]

is assa going to have instant poison?

👀

[cursive summit]

What lethal poisons are there again? Is it deadly and instant?

[limber lion]

In raid it really just depends on the encounter design. Some encounters don't favor execute at all, and some rely on massive execute. Like Sylvanas didn't care for it at all and neither did any other boss in the instance. But Sire was heavily reliant on execute damage because p3 was on a timer, which is where Zoldyck can be good, especially on prog.

But generally you probably don't want it over the other choices.

[limber lion]

Deadly, Instant, Wound and Amp

[cursive summit]

Amp is lethal?

[limber lion]

Yes

[indigo mulch]

Is AMP the only thing that actually increases envenom damage now? Since we don't have vendetta anymore.

[storm onyx]

Yea, Only encounter I remember playing it this expansion is Sire tbf

Not even M+

[cursive summit]

Oh amp, derp. I thought you were talking about the 3% dr poison

[strange python]

what about shiv?

[cursive summit]

Yeah, of course amp is lethal

[limber lion]

Improved Shiv, Elaborate Planning

[indigo mulch]

True, shiv and ep

[limber lion]

Dashing increases the crit chance of poisons after using Envenom

so technically it's increasing the damage you do with that button

but you won't see a bigger Envenom number with that :P

[indigo mulch]

sadge

[limber lion]

It's very good

Deathmark is super strong

We love it.

[indigo mulch]

I agree. It seams super good

Double ticks etc

[limber lion]

Who knows, maybe the Amp Poison being applied twice means you get double the Amp stacks for double the Envenom damage

probably not

but hey

[indigo mulch]

Kekw

I like those 36~40k crits with envenom when the stars align. :c

[storm onyx]

I would guess it would stack up faster only; Counting towards total

[limber lion]

We don't really have big Envenoms nowadays which imo is a good thing

It's not exactly a spec that pops off with big crits

Just play Feral for those 150k Ferocious Bites

[indigo mulch]

roflmao

Their damage breakdown makes me sad inside.

[limber lion]

36k Envenom doesn't feel that big when compared to that

[indigo mulch]

Everything is just them biting the boss. 😒

like 90% of their damage is from that one ability.

The only thing i don't want to go back to is the whole pooling part. I really don't like not being able to press my buttons cause its actually a dps loss 😄

[cursive summit]

I prefer Sin when it's mostly about the dots than the big envenomz

[velvet ridge]

i love pooling

its unique

shows skill expression

[indigo mulch]

I feel like there are other classes that pools aswell though. Its not only assa.

[cursive summit]

I pool on frost dk for remorseless

Because so much of the kit interacts with remorseless it does big dam if you have the resources

[indigo mulch]

I'm sure there are plenty of people who enjoys it. I personally don't like the playstyle. Not waiting for my energy to pop over 80 so i can use an Envenom.

its all personal preference 😄

[velvet ridge]

same, i love when all the dmg is bleeds, poison, i dont like mutilats auto atks or envenoms (other than the nature buff)

[cursive summit]

In bfa you used to pool energy on your pet for unholy when DT was coming up

I had it set up to turn off pet autocast when DT was coming off CD because it was a dps increase lul

Kinda degenerate gameplay

[pure mauve]

Hi is thistle tea bad talent?

[toxic locust]

ye

[storm onyx]

Even in old we had stopped using it in pve; but opens up a lot of possibilities in PvP tbf

[cursive summit]

Thistle tea should give 50 energy and fill your combo points

[fleet whale]

I mean who knows tea could be decent in very early game

[pure mauve]

yes where haste is lower maybe it could fill the ST rotation

Seeing how deffensive cd's are scattered in the talent tree we will have less survival than previous xpac

[harsh anchor]

but more dmg, if you die, healer problem

[vestal wren]

tea could be nice

but there are a lot of energy talents in the tree

[compact wing]

how do we feel about this tree I've done up?
https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AACTNFVFBBARGghFzZAACKNVWoFQUJgVBEwQA

[strange python]

is 1/2 cut to the chase enough?

probably that over sepsis

[limber lion]

No.

We need both points

[compact wing]

My thought is that if Sepsis does count toward being a poison than it might outweigh it

[limber lion]

You also cannot play Assassination without Venomous Wounds

It is the single biggest and most important talent in that tree.

[strange python]

so probably drop sepsis and doomblade

[compact wing]

Even with vigor and alacrity?

[strange python]

sadge

wait that says requires lvl 69?

so we get one more point?

[limber lion]

Doesn't matter what points you have

You need Venomous Wounds

on every single build

Assassination is not playable without it

It should have been baseline

[storm onyx]

Mutilate energy cost and Venomous Wounds are quite linked to each other; we would be starved bad

[limber lion]

If you want to try playing without Venomous Wounds

[cursive summit]

Nah last point for spec tree is 69

[limber lion]

go hit a dummy without poisons

Your apm will drop to 10

very poggers.

[fleet whale]

not only is it a talent

but its also nerfed to 5 energy

[strange python]

what is it now

we gonna be so slow with 1st tier haste and that haha

[fleet whale]

8 energy per bleed tick

[cursive summit]

Think of the interaction with deathmark tho

[strange python]

dashing will be pog

[cursive summit]

Venomous wounds + deathmark is gunna be big

Deathmark also doubles up your lethal poisons? Or is it just the damage procs?

So 2x deadly poison dot

[strange python]

no

wait yes

i thought you were talking about the one that you could use two poisons

ignor eme

Hi rotational question. with 4 pcs, do I do garrote rupture (full duration) - shiv then vendetta then mutilate into enveom? or do i put garrotte rupture envenom then vendetta into shiv and then mut into envenom

[storm onyx]

Will Master Posioner cover Athropic Poison? it reads it would but...

[stray ivy]

so all rogues have to do that stupid anima charged combo point in DF?

[strange python]

zero chance i'm using that

[cursive summit]

Can avoid it for the most part

[stray ivy]

oh ok

[cursive summit]

I'm not gunna touch it

[strange python]

if it's 800 dps loss, i'm still not touching it

[stray ivy]

i didn't like slice and dice's return in SL, but it is what it is

[strange python]

i mean...you hit it once

[limber lion]

#assassination-faq has all your rotational questions covered.

[stray ivy]

exactly, so why even have it

[toxic locust]

i think it's fine for outlaw and sub

for sin it's really just recuperate

[stray ivy]

i rather that one button be kingsbane

[toxic locust]

yea

[stray ivy]

but i dont mind it too much.

but i do hate charged combo point mechanic

[limber lion]

We won't play it.

You don't have to take it

ever

[stray ivy]

even in DF tho?

[limber lion]

bruhj

yes

[uneven hamlet]

that ER could 100% be a SBS

[stray ivy]

Indiscriminate Carnage = Sin good in m+?

[limber lion]

who knows

[stray ivy]

i need beta already

seems like they tried to give both Bm and Sin some better aoe options in these new talents

"Oh shit M+ is pretty popular, we might have to somewhat balance it!"

[cursive summit]

Spreading poisons with FoK and then using Carnage is gunna give a shit ton of energy back in m+

[cursive orchid]

and shitton of agi

[cursive summit]

Yeah

[hollow river]

[brave gyro]

i wonder if you Carnage > Vanish > Garrote - would it aoe silence? especially if you are spec-ed into the 6s one

[cursive summit]

That would be kinda insane, can test it in alpha if it actually releases Thursday

[brave gyro]

would be pretty nutty for M+ - especially since its not AoE capped - in theory you can pull a few packs, and big bleeds

[slim siren]

quick question for the talent tree in pinned. is there a reason vicious isnt being used in the mythic plus tree? is it just because multilate isnt used much and is the row 4 posion really that good i dont see why 3% is meaningful to most tanks

[brave gyro]

even more, if you are spec-ed into Poison Bomb, and you carnage > rupture - does each rupture have a chance to proc it? If yes, that would be the biggest overlap ever

[cursive summit]

Max asked that last night on his stream. You are technically applying 5-7 point ruptures on everything

But until people are able to test, we don't know rn

[strange python]

i dont got a lot of keybinds left...

[worn sorrel]

It says it deals reduced damage past 8targets I think

[brave gyro]

now that would be a poison artillery strike if it actually worked xD

[cursive summit]

Yeah it's softcapped

[worn sorrel]

So they can also soft cap the procc

[cursive summit]

I think it's almost guaranteed to proc per Carnage if its per rupture applied

[worn sorrel]

Or just not make it work with aoe rupture?

[cursive summit]

Which gives Carnage even more value in m+

[brave gyro]

Yes, there are better things you can get for AoE in M+ spec

[worn sorrel]

I dont know if its because they are more polished, but both hunter and rogue talents seem very cool

In comparison to feral for example

[strange python]

the only other class spec i could see myself playing is bm hunter...and i dunno why

[brave gyro]

i havent spend much time on hunter, but more experienced hunters than me seem to be satisfied only with the BM tree, and don't like MM and SV

[slim siren]

yea they really feel more polished. my dk and druid friends were mad about how nice ours looked

[slim siren]

some are also mad we get 3 cov abilitys and they only get their worst one

[brave gyro]

but we dont get the best one

[frosty bridge]

sadly we dont get our coolest one

[slim siren]

yea tho im not to mad for sepsis for pvp

[brave gyro]

and we get shitty version of Flag one only on the one spec that has 0 use for haste xD

[strange python]

it wont be nearly as strong (stepsis) right

[brave gyro]

ive seen some ppl make Sublaw builds where they also go with sepsis and whatnot

[strange python]

yeah but that conduit really boosts it up right

[slim siren]

honestly this was a perfect time to add kingsbane instead of sepsis

outlaw got dreadblades back after all

[brave gyro]

i wouldn't mind if we have a kingsbane / SBS choice node

and if they won't make flag give vers, its kinda dead

[limber lion]

1. Yes, we don't use Mutilate as much.
2. The raid buff is very, very meaningful and the DR increases with stuff like Master Poison and Shiv.

[slim siren]

i cant say i like that they are incentivizing crit i absolutely hate that stat

[slim siren]

ah ok do you know what % it will be with all buffs?

[brave gyro]

in raids, its mandatory pretty much - its not just 3% - its 3.6% with master poisoner, and each time you use shiv, it jumps to 7.2% dmg reduc, which could be the difference between wipe and kill

[slim siren]

hm fair enough but only one rogue needs it per raid right? so you just make the lowest dps rogue take it

[surreal palm]

IF you have 2 sin rogues sure probably

[cursive summit]

Wihh Outlaw and Sin getting such strong raid/party buffs you're gunna want 1 of each

[hollow river]

outlaw likely becomes a mandatory bring

[cursive summit]

With

[hollow river]

so having 2 assa rogues may be more rare depending on your guild obv

[slim siren]

really, i havent looked at the talent tree much but why? also my guild does have 2 sin rogues in our raiding team and we both hate outlaw xD

[cursive summit]

Restless crew

[brave gyro]

well, that depends how many rogues u have and what you need:

• assa brings damage reduction
• outlaw brings party CDR
• sub brings aoe movement speed (shroud with 50% ms)

[cursive summit]

The best part of subs roar is it lasts twice as long as druid roar lmaooo

[brave gyro]

do you even get the full duration? does it not drop if u leave shadow dance?

[slim siren]

interesting. and im guessing main stats are still gonna be crit/mast? or do we have no idea stat prio yet

[brave gyro]

not yet

[cursive summit]

Probably but I imagine if the full duration is needed you burn 2 charges of SD for it

Even with using 1 SD, it lasts 9 seconds right?

So it still lasts 1second longer haha

[brave gyro]

well if the whole raid is running away, likely it won't be a big uptime (dps-wise) so its fine

[cursive summit]

Max reckons if it existed during halondrus progression they'd have killed it in 25 less pulls

[strange python]

lol give rogues utility that they have to spec into...
Suddenly no rogues take utility...
cept the ones that are forced to by their RL

[brave gyro]

ngl tho, i kinda wish cheat death was somewhere higher in the tree - it kinda forces all 3 spec to deep-dick into the sub side

[hollow river]

outlaw gets a WFT type party buff, that gives CDR to their party

on just their main dps CD i think

but it's still going to be good from what it looks like atm

[strange python]

who needs Cheat Death when you can Podtendie

[brave gyro]

just sip some tea right?

[strange python]

or that

[brave gyro]

[strange python]

Didn't we used to MAKE thistle tea

tf did it have to become a talent ffs

[brave gyro]

well, that was like 17 years ago? xD

[strange python]

Ever since they removed First Aid, i think sub numbers have gone down. js

I dunno, i'm old so

[brave gyro]

wait nvm, thistle was mop i think

[strange python]

There used to be a "Track Humanoids" thing too but...is that still in game?

[brave gyro]

but shared CD with pot, so never viable 😦

[slim siren]

then we could buy it in legion

still sucked

[craggy nimbus]

Man, here I was about to whine a bit since my damage is badshit bad in m+ but then I looked at the assassination faq and realised that I've been doing quite much wrong 😅
I'll try out all the stuff I've been missing but if anyone would like to help out with pointers on a log later tonight/tomorrow that would be great. If my dps doesn't skyrocket^^

[balmy condor]

Yep feel free to ping or dm me whichever you’re more comfortable with I can take a look after my date today :)

[cursive summit]

Date Pog

[strange python]

humble brag

i see you though

[balmy condor]

Nah the humble brag would be that it’s my girlfriend of 7 years

[slim siren]

unhumble brag

[strange python]

Can you write us a guide?

[slim siren]

honestly im going out tonight and need a guide whispyr can you have it done in 5 hours

[balmy condor]

Yeah so do marching band in high school, get hit on by the cutest clarinet player, get together summer break before junior year, and then just afk for 7 years

[slim siren]

well shit guess that content was taken out of the game for me

[balmy condor]

Yeah it’s a limited time event

[slim siren]

acting like classic naxx /cry

[ebon notch]

wheres the netflix adaptation

[balmy condor]

Super OP honestly not sure how the devs let it go live

[brave gyro]

instructions unclear, marched into the army, where I got hit with a clarinet into a coma afk-ing for 7 years, no girlfriend and still no DF alpha

[slim siren]

idk if its op the chance of getting hit on is like what 0.00001?

[craggy nimbus]

Or do like me, I found my wife when I was 14, we started listening to Linkin Park together on one CD Player during math, invited her home for a random family get-together, we kissed and suddenly planned on spending the rest of my life with her. Celebrating 20 years together next year :>

[slim siren]

the most unhumble brag...but grats

[cursive summit]

Better love story than Twilight

[slim siren]

yall where dating in highschool? i was just grinding for a number 1 parse in HS

[craggy nimbus]

Thanks man, I've been playing my rogue since two weeks into vanilla but I fell out of touch with her a few weeks ago. I don't wanna let her go just yet so I'll look around the faq and ping you if I have some thoughts in the days to come

[balmy condor]

Sounds good

[balmy condor]

Giga chad

[craggy nimbus]

Dating while grinding honor to become Commander for the mount in Vanilla while raidleading and being classleader for rogues plus surviving school. phew

[fleet whale]

am i the only one who doesn't think that sub's "shroud roar" talent is that good?

[slim siren]

xD, life peaked when i saw that number 1 on the side dont think even a wedding will top it xD

[craggy nimbus]

Now I'm struggling to raid twice a week while working 90% and having four kids ranging from the ages two to nine. It ain't easy but making it work somehow xD

Although we're only raiding heroic content so the pressure isn't that huge^^

[cursive summit]

Can't wait till my kids are older and I can get back into raiding

[limber lion]

so you think it's good?

[cursive summit]

I'm just an m+ bot atm

[fleet whale]

sorry i meant to say that i dont' think its good

[limber lion]

yeah was a weird sentence, wasn't sure

a lot of negatives

double negatives hit hard

[craggy nimbus]

I'm not sure how many raids I've spent with my youngest one sleeping on me while I've been laying down in my computer chair, trying not to die to random shit in the raids

[cursive summit]

It's good, just not 3% dr or party cdr good

3-7.2%*

[limber lion]

@fleet whale but yeah, it's basically just Stampeding Roar with a visual indicator lol

[fleet whale]

idk, seems really janky to me, like you have to be in the circle

[cursive summit]

Won't it be really good for m+?

15 seconds of 50% ms and invis

[ebon notch]

i mean indoors i guess

but you usually mount in shroud

[balmy condor]

Nope, I think it’s pretty useless honestly

[strange python]

Sin gonna have so many new buttons 😵‍💫

[fleet whale]

All rogues specs are going to have new buttons

[crisp steppe]

what are you guys thinking for rogue tree for m+. vigor+sub to setup energy regen or does that suck

[fleet whale]

but losing our two covenant abilities will free up two buttons

[strange python]

Never used door anyway tbh

Lmao

Most concerned about cold blood

just another thing to think about

No flag is a bit more relaxing tho

[fleet whale]

well if cold blood is off the gcd

it won't be too bad

[strange python]

Interested to see if shadow dance becomes good

[uneven hamlet]

The thing that most concerns me is being obliged to play a spec cause of the "raid utility/dps buff"

[strange python]

Just get an outlaw and a sin 😎

[fleet whale]

eh, I don't see dance being that great for sin

[strange python]

they put it on the m+ tree tho

[fleet whale]

plus you have to waste points into find weakness to get it, which is a dead talent for sin

[strange python]

Guess we will find out

[uneven hamlet]

And never play sub ever again 😎

[strange python]

Lmao idm sub

But

TBD with raid utility

[limber lion]

m+ tree?

[glass tulip]

on the m+ in the pins it has dance

in the rogue tree

[fleet whale]

i assume he/she means the tree in the pins

[strange python]

The general m+ tree on the pins

[fleet whale]

but note all of these trees are speculative

[strange python]

yeah ofc

[limber lion]

Oh right

[strange python]

I was just wondering

[inner token]

https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AACTPFVUVBFRSoBBwJAQAACKNVaoFQUJgRBQwQA my single target build for assa just an idea

[glass tulip]

thats a fatty middle row on the rogue tree, whats your thought on anything below gouge

[fleet whale]

no alacrity is a no go for sin

[subtle kiln]

how is anything a dead talent when it’s all just speculation and assumptions on tuning. lol

[fleet whale]

I would be surprised if 4% verse>10% haste for sin

[subtle kiln]

just wait until the tier bonus is buffed by vers.

[ancient sonnet]

im at no kingsbane ngl

[inner token]

kingsbane was the shit i miss legion assa

[fleet whale]

I mean it may end up being a talent still

trees are far from complete

[ancient sonnet]

[inner token]

hope dies last

[ancient sonnet]

its blizz tho, so chances are it can only get worse

[cursive summit]

Still hope it could come back

[inner token]

maybe when alpha is out next week the sims will go crazy so many variables

[cursive summit]

as a choice node, i'm hoping it goes with Sepsis, Sepsis or Kingsbane

[balmy condor]

Dance on the m+ tree is a curious choice for sure but seems interesting to have for garrote spamming

Probably doesn’t interact with the garrote powers

But it’s just a general idea

Those 3 points can be put somewhere else

[subtle tundra]

yea but what about my er shadowdance no seal fate build

full mastery

[fleet whale]

what about ambush build

[marble hemlock]

no seal fate in m+

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

oshosi fanboys

[marble hemlock]

thats even more cursed than my ambush build

[fleet whale]

what about shadow poison sub rogue build?

[subtle tundra]

why need seal fate when you dont fok?

or you use as filler

[balmy condor]

Because poisons do a fuck ton of damage

[subtle tundra]

im a bit craycray

[balmy condor]

And you’re doing 0 aoe

[marble hemlock]

how are you applying poisons to all targets if you dont fok?

[subtle tundra]

uh

melees

[spice spire]

This mf going for the clussy

[subtle tundra]

when multidoting

[fleet whale]

I guess he doesn't fok

[marble hemlock]

that sounds like some great venomous wounds proc management

[subtle tundra]

thats what assa is all about

[balmy condor]

Varas plays windwalker once

[ancient sonnet]

imagine if they bring back SS too

[balmy condor]

And he’s just off the deep end

Tabbing auto attacks to sustain poisons

[subtle tundra]

[balmy condor]

[subtle tundra]

idk i just want to get rid of entirely rng cp gen in aoe

[strange python]

They got raid buff now ?

[spice spire]

Folyr main

[subtle tundra]

so might aswell go 1 cp fok y'know

[balmy condor]

Subtlety

[fleet whale]

sounds trash

[hollow escarp]

rng cp > 5 fok for full cp bar

[subtle tundra]

you just cant comprehend its greatness

[ancient sonnet]

just dont take seal fate, then you dont have to rely on rng

[toxic locust]

just get 100% crit?

i don't see the problem

[fleet whale]

nimble fingers vs gouge
what talent is better for dps?

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

SURELY WE TAKE ONE POINT OF NIGHTSTALKER OVER GOUGE

HELLO MR ORANGE NAME

[fleet whale]

you know this is gonna be asked all the time

[balmy condor]

WHY IS IT DAY 2 AND THE TALENTS ARE NOT PIN POINT OPTIMIZED FOR RAZOR EDGE DPS

[spice spire]

Be the change you want to see In The world

[balmy condor]

[toxic locust]

i'm taking gouge purely out of spite

[fleet whale]

"why are we only taking 2 points of alacrity?"

[spice spire]

Minute one of a build being pinned

[balmy condor]

MR ORANGE NAME SIR WHY ARE YOU TAKING SPRINT COOLDOWN REDUCTION THATS ZERO DPS

[fleet whale]

"why is x streamer using a different talent?"

[subtle tundra]

i hope they make the dot spreader 1 minute, thats literally my only request

[marble hemlock]

orange names are only moderating the discord anyway

true knowledge comes from the green names

[spice spire]

I’m a green name

[marble hemlock]

not you

never you

[spice spire]

Checkmate mister sbs apologist

[marble hemlock]

ill give you a special bone spike if you keep this bratty-act up

[fleet whale]

there was a bold sub rogue build i saw posted with only one point of alacrity

that's kind of risk

[marble hemlock]

sub has much higher cp gen, higher max CP as well

[toxic locust]

sub and outlaw can get away with 1 alacrity

[fleet whale]

I could still see it being kind of annoying, even with a 7 cp finisher

it's less than 50% chance you get a stack

[marble hemlock]

its about the frequency of finishers

as in, can they maintain it with 1 point due to how often they finish within a 20second window

[subtle tundra]

i also finish within a 20 second window

[craggy nimbus]

Not sure if anyone is still here from my last discussion about my (lack of) dps and me finding out I've been doing everything wrong but I'll ask anyway. The picture from the assassination faq shows the vendetta timings but how does that work with necro instead of venthyr as the picture shows?

[cursive summit]

truuuuuuuuuuue

[craggy nimbus]

And it says "opening with all cd's", playing vendetta first, rupture, CT etc but we still go for garrote on three targets, get snd off and THEN start the all cd's rotation?

[subtle tundra]

i want dubler shadowstep

[balmy condor]

It doesn’t

[balmy condor]

Yes

The picture is for single target

[craggy nimbus]

Alright so that's only ST and burst I guess

[burnt latch]

so many messages

has there been any extra spicy takes today

[craggy nimbus]

Roger that, thanks. So with necro and m+ there isn't much need or actually anything to sync vendetta with except shiv?

[violet jackal]

with necrolord it's easier just hit the button no special line ups

[burnt latch]

@balmy condor im still hurt by the insults u threw at me in the middle of the night

[craggy nimbus]

Line up vendetta with shiv and vanish for a nice burst with envenom?

[violet jackal]

you can get tissues from your local dollar store to wipe away the tears

[burnt latch]

dollar

fake currency

[violet jackal]

if the difference is roughly 8 seconds or less hold between those 3 buttons , if not just send it.

[craggy nimbus]

Alright thanks. Since we don't raid anymore I won't bother with learning the ST one right now atleast, it'll change well enough in Dragonflight when I'll do anything more serious with my rogue^^

[violet jackal]

you still single target bosses in dungeons 🤔

[craggy nimbus]

Still, giving m+ a more serious go now and perhaps some in s4, we'll see.

[bleak sky]

At least you weren't roasted by the dev

[burnt latch]

true

feels dapsman

[bleak sky]

I need an emote like that right now

[craggy nimbus]

Yea, but if I'm staying necro then it won't matter. I'm only doing 15-17ish m+ but if I for some reason go higher I'll learn it by heart^^

[bleak sky]

@ebon notch make feelsdapsman happen

[burnt latch]

redeem yourself

gain your name back

[craggy nimbus]

Christ I need new trinkets. Cache at 265 and a Bottled Flayed at 278

Or one new atleast

[bleak sky]

Flayed is trash yeah

But you don't need anything special to run 15s

[ebon notch]

cant

i already suggested assa killing spree and whispyr didnt like it

my idea was it would throw poison bombs on the ground on every teleport

[craggy oak]

This ^^

We need this

[bleak sky]

I can see why he didn't like it

[burnt latch]

yeah okay you have no chance at redemption

[ebon notch]

idk its sick in my head

and has so much flexibility

[burnt latch]

youre sick in the head

[ebon notch]

yeah yeah retired raider

[glass tulip]

We can trade names

I'll take on your shame

[marble hemlock]

cause its trash

[marble hemlock]

cause youre sick in your head

the spec is called assassination. an uncontrollable jumping around skill doesnt exactly align with the idea of a lethal assassin

[glass tulip]

I want an ability to kill NPCs

Poison cups at the tavern

[bleak sky]

rp

[glass tulip]

im an rp andy what can I say

[velvet ridge]

Hard agree, pls no killing spree meta

[ebon notch]

just be more stealthy about it

honestly as long as its fun who cares about thematics

[velvet ridge]

I care

[ebon notch]

then dont talent into it

[bleak sky]

Agreed it's just that PB is bad

Omegabad

[ebon notch]

tru

[bleak sky]

Pb sounds tho

[ebon notch]

tru

[lucid birch]

Yo

[marble hemlock]

why are you trying to force one of the most disliked outlaw abilities into another spec

[ebon notch]

force?

i have 0 influence

was just a shitty idea

[marble hemlock]

aight

saying stuff like "then dont talent into it" makes it sound like you think it should still be in the game just cause you like it :/

[bleak sky]

The problem with ks is just the your character model actually moves around right

[marble hemlock]

ye

[bleak sky]

If it were fixed position like blade dance it's dope

[bleak sky]

Hello my lover

[lucid birch]

Hey king

[marble hemlock]

itd make more sense for the spec to get some weirdass draught of souls like channel that just throws vials at everyone like a crazed alchemist

but it still wouldnt fit the theme of rogue at all imo

[bleak sky]

I don't see that playing out nicely yeah

But take killing spree, make it shadowsteps and apply bleeds on the targets

[ebon notch]

oh that would be super nice actually

[bleak sky]

Now it's not as outlaw-like, fits the theme and does something aight

[ebon notch]

"buff your next shadowstep to fully dot up your target"

[jaunty lotus]

Are you guys getting rtb?

[bleak sky]

https://tenor.com/view/xdrzero-daniel-oliveira-sad-eyes-gif-14561159

[toxic locust]

where would killing spree be?

if it's in the class tree instead of like, ER it wouldn't need to change that much thematically

[bleak sky]

No clue, just throwing ideas around

[toxic locust]

the problem here would be the awful animation lock

[glass tulip]

@lucid birch I think our champions must fight to the death

[marble hemlock]

i mean, we already have carnage so

[chilly marsh]

shadowstep aplying poisons + garrote all enemies would be sick

[toxic locust]

carnage is fucking sick

[marble hemlock]

just wish wed have a way to spend all that energy we're gonna hard overcap during that time

[ebon notch]

true

give us a channelled ability that costs tons of energy

and just fucks everything in ian aoe

[limber lion]

wtf is with all this channelled bullshit

fuck that shit

why do you want channels

[marble hemlock]

could honestly put it into thistle tea

[ebon notch]

cause usually more powerful abilities are channelled

[marble hemlock]

instead of tea giving you energy, it could make your abilities cost more energy but deal more damage

[ebon notch]

make it stackable seli

so you can chug all 3

[marble hemlock]

so youre just roiding up

[hexed root]

all that theorycrafting for alpha talents. lets go

[ebon notch]

and do insane dam

[burnt latch]

mind sear would like to have a chat

[marble hemlock]

tranq

[ebon notch]

mind sear

@next vapor thoughts?

[next vapor]

[limber lion]

like what?

[next vapor]

Begone thot

[burnt latch]

daps been a storm of bad takes the last 24 hours

[next vapor]

You can keep mind sear

We don't want it

[burnt latch]

we neither

we doesnt include daps

we disown him

[ebon notch]

you guys are just pussies

[bleak sky]

CT will be powerful enough to spam it

[ebon notch]

not willing to have bad ideas

throw out crazy shit and boil it down to something useable

[limber lion]

still waiting for the powerful abilities

[burnt latch]

[ebon notch]

bladestorm

[marble hemlock]

or ya know

[bleak sky]

channel a big fat envenom for 10 sec instantly killing the boss

[marble hemlock]

instead of spending all this energy on bad ideas

[limber lion]

you don't even press it on arms

[marble hemlock]

just spend more of it on a good one

🙂

[ebon notch]

im not as talented as you

😦

[marble hemlock]

thank god theres a talent rework

[ebon notch]

you do in keys

and as a filler sometimes maybe

[limber lion]

Sure

don't think it's super duper powerful though

Ancient Aftershock is better

[ebon notch]

true lots of its power was locked behind bonegrinder

[limber lion]

that's not channeled

[strange python]

The longer we hold envenom button, the more it charges up...then unleashes

[ebon notch]

imagine warriors without that singular conduit

[ebon notch]

then the boss moves

[limber lion]

"hold up guys, I need 5 minutes to charge my Envenom before we pull"

[ebon notch]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[burnt latch]

dude this discord

[ebon notch]

add voice detection for that also

[burnt latch]

is just full of takes

[ebon notch]

for true roleplay

[strange python]

in arena, you could get 5, 6 combo points...

[hexed root]

what do you mean a discord where people talk about a class has takes?

[strange python]

Vanish...then just charge envenom til someone walked infront of u

[hexed root]

that's weird

[burnt latch]

this talent rework has brought out some unholy takes

[hexed root]

let people have their opinions, jeeez

[burnt latch]

hahaha thats a good one

got me there

[oak sky]

I think sin should lose mutilate rupture and envenom

This is a correct take

[burnt latch]

i think sin should be ranged

[hexed root]

I think outlaw should be full ranged.

[limber lion]

how about instead of that, if you hit someone with a charged up Envenom, you instantly kill them and all of their party members and win that game, as well as the future game that you would have played but because you charged up your Envenom so much, you killed that party too

[hexed root]

assassination doesn't make sense ranged, where as outlaw can. Jeez.

[strange python]

Can't complain about that.

Throwing daggers

[burnt latch]

yeah but u wouldnt play assa cuz have u seen outlaw raid buff???????

[oak sky]

That isnt going live

[hexed root]

whats outlaws buff? better than 3% dmg reduction?

[burnt latch]

nope

[worn sorrel]

Cdr on burst party wide

[ebon notch]

its aoe priest fae

[hexed root]

which ability?

[strange python]

I must be the only one that feels like 3% dmg reduction sounds stupid.

[oak sky]

Its incredibly strong

[ebon notch]

stupid broken

[shadow tulip]

It's HUGE

[hexed root]

it sounds stupid but it's still raid utility for progression/raiding

[limber lion]

It doesn't really fit the Assassination theme, but it's super strong

[hexed root]

It's HUGE for progression/raiding.

[ebon notch]

its honestly a good filter for who mythic raids and who doesnt

[burnt latch]

its bad for reclears late prog, its absolutely insane for actual hard bosses

[strange python]

til healers wanna parse

[hexed root]

^

[bleak sky]

@ebon notch why can't you think of good talents like this one

[ebon notch]

if they think its weak then you can tell

[limber lion]

Would have made more sense on a healer/tank instead of a class with 3 dps specs.

[burnt latch]

i cant take anyone who says its bad seriously

[oak sky]

I mean it is a poison

[hexed root]

which talent is it in outlaw tree?

[worn sorrel]

I agree that 3% dr on assa is weire

[oak sky]

Oh like paladin for example

[limber lion]

But it makes for some good spicy screenshots later down the line when raid leaders notice 2 months into the tier that their Assassination rogue never spec'd into the talent.

[toxic locust]

why is it weird

[hexed root]

you're an assassin, you can't assassinate a boss, so you make him weaker. logic.

[fleet whale]

Cdr reduction for the raid is outlaw

[strange python]

Why .. the poison can just sap the enemies strength and make them not hit as hard

Makes sense to me

[toxic locust]

poisoning your targets and weakening them seems perfectly on theme

yea

[hexed root]

which talent on the outlaw tree is the cdr?

[fleet whale]

Restless crew

[toxic locust]

restless blades?

[burnt latch]

boss one shots someone -> open up logs and see if rogue greeded shiv for damage

its still better than not being in the raid tho

[hexed root]

?

[strange python]

There's zero chance i'm saving shiv for when the RL calls for it.

ever

[limber lion]

I honestly don't think that we'll see Assa rogues holding Shiv for the DR. Like at all

[fleet whale]

No no that one

[limber lion]

It's still gonna have a lot of uptime for most things

[bleak sky]

self cdr is this

[worn sorrel]

Imo shiv should be split into 2

[fleet whale]

The one Below it

[limber lion]

9s Shiv, 25s CD

[burnt latch]

theres going to be a mechanic where we will

1 boss in the 3 tiers

[toxic locust]

dispel shiv should be split from toxic blade and class baseline

[hexed root]

restless CREW found it

[bleak sky]

it will just line up nicely

[limber lion]

You'll have the Shiv debuff on the target 36% of the time if you send it on cd on the boss.

so 36% of the time you get a bigger dr

pretty nice

[strange python]

well since you put it like that...and it's what 6% or 7.2% or something

[hexed root]

that's pretty dumb, every finisher = 1 sec cdr?

[burnt latch]

theres going to be a big boss hit on a 30 sec interval which will hurt like fuck

and we will be holding on that

[hexed root]

major offensive ability

[chilly marsh]

they could make shiv have 0 cd but every 20s your next shiv is empowred

[hexed root]

hmm