assassination

[dark token]

But you dont

[marble hemlock]

obliteration vs icecap etc.

all of these have different implications on rotational gameplay

[half light]

that reminds me of deep freeze for frost mage

that shit was bonkers

[marble hemlock]

deathmark vs vendetta would literally be

1. singletarget cd that you press once, forget about it, and lets you deal more singletarget damage. no rotational impact.
2. singletarget cd that you press once, forget about it, and lets you deal more singletarget damage. no rotational impact. deals more damage than 1)

you can guess which is which

[dark token]

Give us a choice between deathmark and storm, earth, and fire and now we are talking

[balmy condor]

give us a choice between deathmark and deathirl

I prefer the second

[half light]

lmao

[marble hemlock]

basically, everything that vendetta does, deathmark does too. and deathmark does a bunch more. thats why it wouldnt be a choice to put them up against each other

[dark token]

I want some rogue ninja bleed clones to pop up and stack my lethal dosage to 100%

[half light]

yo imagine a talent that is like a soul cap

but for assa, deep wound or w/e

[dark token]

Now that would be a more interesting vendetta

[half light]

the better you build it, the more damage it deals, and when it pops it makes a bloody sound

[dark token]

Still 20% dmg amp

But make it store all dmg and pop

[half light]

yeah

like soul cap

[muted ivy]

more like soul

[half light]

though maybe it would have to be limited in how it interacts with externals and so

[muted ivy]

sry

[grave ivy]

Seli, have you gone to bed yet?

[marble hemlock]

what is it with everybody being concerned about my sleep

[dark token]

Shit I realized we are both in Europe

[half light]

cuz soul cap I remember was so freakin op if you used the leggo ring

and also got nice procs when using it

[dark token]

It was the double pop that was op

[grave ivy]

We care 🙃

[half light]

double pop?

[marble hemlock]

i dont, so why do you?

[half light]

ahh the leggo ring into soulcap

[chilly marsh]

^ this

[marble hemlock]

i wont get much sleep this weekend, it is what it is

[half light]

or viceversa, but you amplified the other, right?

[dark token]

If you popped a soul cappa into a legendary ring pop into another soulcap pop

[half light]

wtf

[grave ivy]

Fair 🙂

[half light]

yeah that sounds broken af lmao

[chilly marsh]

you guys remmeber the tyrant boss one shot strat?

[muted ivy]

now you're thinking with portals

[dark token]

Bring trash into it?

[chilly marsh]

yea

[half light]

lol really?

damn that was the boss I got stuck on when raiding hfc m

before prepatch

[marble hemlock]

soul cap was a mistake

garbage trinket

one of the worst trinkets in the history of teh game

[half light]

why 😦

[dark token]

I liked bringing out a target dummy in pvp, stacking a bunch of dmg and shadowstepping onto a target to instantly 1shot them from stealth

[tropic rover]

@marble hemlock how is the kitty

[dark token]

Great trinket

[marble hemlock]

together with rune of reorigination and draught of souls

[half light]

what was rune?

[marble hemlock]

worst trinkets in the game

[half light]

I remember draught that shit was a meme lol

fury warrs with it

[marble hemlock]

When your attacks hit you have a chance to trigger Re-Origination. Re-Origination converts the lower two values of your Critical Strike, Haste, and Mastery into twice as much of the highest of those three attributes for 10 sec.

[half light]

30 ilvl down and still bis for fury warrs

[marble hemlock]

basically would remove ALL your crit/haste to give you twice as much mastery, for example

insanely broken for any snapshotting class

[dark token]

Draught of souls was an interesting concept though, they should have more trinkets that add abilities

Like imagine dfa

As a trinket

[half light]

wtf yeah sounds broken af

you use it and leave a giga chad rupture

and garrote

and ago poison cuz why tf not

[marble hemlock]

it was worst with feral

cause they would extend their bleeds infinitely

so you would snapshot once

and keep the snapshotted bleed

[half light]

lmao really?

[marble hemlock]

even if the trinket runs out

🙂

[half light]

so you could use the other finishers without worry

must have felt awesome playing feral back then LOL

[green harbor]

i wonder how many simc profiles we'll end up with class-wide in the end

[marble hemlock]

but yeah anyway

interesting trinkets is one thing, but straightup busted trinkets that are twice as good as any other choice, are not good

[dark token]

Archimonde trinkets?

[half light]

wasn't the one for assa a flop?

and even worse on prepatch lol

[marble hemlock]

shes annoying

[tropic rover]

[chilly marsh]

blizzard misses some oportunites with trinkets too

Bottled Flayedwing Toxin shoudl totally be bis for sin

i mean what is the problem of making unique trinkets good for unique specs?

[marble hemlock]

its a balancing nightmare, for one

completely removes any gearing choices/options

as you just want 1 specific trinket and nothing else

[half light]

like artifacts?

[marble hemlock]

which creates more moments of frustration in day to day gameplay

you didnt have weapons drop all the time that no one could or wanted to use

[chilly marsh]

i still want sylvannas dagger cache of arms you know

frustrated the same every time didnt got one lol

[half light]

the cache from portal guy is nice lol

[tropic rover]

Cache is the worst trinket ever

Design wise*

[chilly marsh]

dont think it would be a balance nightmare if some trinket performed way better for only X spec

[half light]

draught of souls for fury warr lol

[marble hemlock]

legion had a lot of these and it wasnt good

[chilly marsh]

instead of everyone using the SAME trinket for every spec

[half light]

or the legendary max ilvl arcanocrystal

or the legendary that was pretty much an arcanocrystal with an effect

[marble hemlock]

shivermaws was bis for most classes that had a tank offspec and could get it from the weekly chest, eye of command was bis for all melee, whispers in the dark was bis for almost all casters, arcana crystal was bis for almost all casters, there was 10 other trinkets no one ever wanted.

[chilly marsh]

for me the problem is if the trinket is sooo god for everyone

[marble hemlock]

then we had the stint with DH wanting the moroes trinket

dinner bell

[half light]

whispers in the dark felt so nice as a caster tbh

[half light]

lol really? why tho?

[marble hemlock]

cause it gave a fuckton of mastery

[half light]

the one that left a permanent garrote?

ahh

[chilly marsh]

that is my point. instead onf ONE trinket everyone wants why not having some trinket ONLY 1 spec wnats because synergies

[marble hemlock]

cause inevitably some classes or specs wouldnt have an insane trinket that scales their damage in ridiculous ways, which means you have to bring up those classes baseline to make up for it

[half light]

just like prophecy of fear

[marble hemlock]

and then the next tier comes, and maybe that class now has a new trinket from raid that is really good, and suddenly this class or spec is super broken and you have to nerf it again or buff smth else

or maybe some of these trinkets are only acquired through the great vault, so do you balance around people having it or not having it?

[half light]

that would be a nightmare

[marble hemlock]

its just a nightmare, and thats why balancing around a certain threshold and making sure most trinkets are somewhere around that threshold, is just much easier

[half light]

cuz there's always people with bad luck

[chilly marsh]

can't see it being different from having a sylvanas dagger or an anduin ring

[whole mason]

why they change vendetta's name...

[chilly marsh]

looks easier for me to balance a trinket that is garbage for everyone but X spec. thant balance a arconocrystal that affctes everyone

[marble hemlock]

neither of which were particularly great for balance

and having or not having a dagger week 1 or 2 made a massive difference in performance

[half light]

wasn't sub still good with m sylv daggers at the start of SofFo?

and for some time too

[chilly marsh]

its still good

[half light]

I mean, I don't think that's great lol, it's like draught of souls in some way

[chilly marsh]

you remove your 285 dagger for de silvanas one in execute

[half light]

lol wtf

[chilly marsh]

lower hp = more dagger procs

[muted ivy]

would be pretty sweet if we had a sylv dagger like effect for one of the final points in the sub tree

[chilly marsh]

cant wait to buy a 285 silv dagger in s4

that shit os broken lol

[half light]

that would make sense fantasy-wise

since we certainly have the upper hand as assassins lol

[spice spire]

It’ll be 311 tho

[marble hemlock]

what if he buys a 285 one just to spite you?

[balmy condor]

what if he just doesn't play season 4 at all because he's scared of numbers over 300

ever thought bout that?

[spice spire]

I hate (not really) both of you

[oak sky]

but you love me

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

check dm's mr agreonR

[drifting imp]

Uh... Do we even have one single of these choose talent nodes in any of our trees or am I just blind?

[oak sky]

we have none rn

might change

[fallen raven]

#assassination message

[drifting imp]

Ahhh thank you so much :) nice that the actual tree guy shows up here, what a Chad

[pure mauve]

Hi is vicious venom affected by mastery?

[balmy condor]

Who knows

[pure mauve]

Deathmark works with dots and bleeds applied b4 using deathmark?

[balmy condor]

Probably? Maybe?

[pure mauve]

Hope so!

[lucid birch]

[balmy condor]

It’s day 1 of a talent preview for an expansion not in alpha

Deathmark might not even exist in 3 months

[cold spoke]

anyone else was coping kingsbane was on talent tree

but then saw sepsis and went like

[pure mauve]

About amplifying poison is a 3rd poison that we can use or it remplaces deadly poison?

[oak sky]

it replaces deadly unless you talent into dragon tempered blades

then you can have both

[balmy condor]

I don’t think it replaces deadly

[oak sky]

not replaces

sorry

[balmy condor]

Atm it doesn’t look strong enough

[oak sky]

you can use it instead of deadly potentially

as an option

[balmy condor]

With dragon tempered it would replace instant poison

[pure mauve]

The talent says: Dealing nature damage. SO it's good for Deathmark and other talents that buff poisons

Does doomblade work with mastery??

[oak sky]

it just works with your mut damage basically

[kind talon]

But what if it just didn’t replace instant poison

[balmy condor]

then it would be very weird

[balmy condor]

no

doomblade is just whatever the mutilate damage is, 30% of that

[oak sky]

he really wants to go a double poison aoe build

[balmy condor]

he can

[kind talon]

I really want to play instant poison deadly poison aoe build

[balmy condor]

that's literally what my talent tree in the pins does

[lucid birch]

pins?

[balmy condor]

I'm lost

what's the issue?

[kind talon]

I just want to play with instant poison and deadly poison at the same time

That’s all

[balmy condor]

yes

[oak sky]

yeah thats what hes saying

that was his joke

[balmy condor]

okay

well

you can do that!

[kind talon]

I just think it’s cool and quirky

[balmy condor]

[kind talon]

Yep

[oak sky]

until they remove venom rush

[lucid birch]

[pure mauve]

New vendetta seems worse than previous

[kind talon]

Also @balmy condor why would you not take NS for m+ build

[balmy condor]

probably marginally better

but NS sucks

and the energy regen thingy is good for single target

probably up to choice type deal

[kind talon]

You could just remove um

[balmy condor]

[kind talon]

Improved sprint, master poisoner, gouge

2 of those 3

For 2 points NS

[oak sky]

im kinda sad we lose recuperator

rip my healing parses

[balmy condor]

I don't think dropping master poisoner is worth

[lucid birch]

They were good I remember

[balmy condor]

but you could probably drop sprint for ns, sure

[oak sky]

itll be my claim to fame as long as i play this game

[kind talon]

NS just seems too good not to take with dance

Cause it’s already giving you 30% crit

[lucid birch]

Whispyr got into healing parses around guardian

[kind talon]

And 10% damage

[oak sky]

did he take notes from me though

[kind talon]

Another 20% to top that off ooooh mama

[lucid birch]

Possibly!

[oak sky]

i should be the healing cf

[balmy condor]

I did not, my rank 1 healing on guardian was bloodfang MP leeching

[kind talon]

You should be the trolling cf

[oak sky]

whens that charlatan spec i saw on r/wow coming out the devs love listening to those guys great ideas

i love r/wow

[kind talon]

Point proven

[lucid solar]

Willl assa rogue still be a Single target specc or can we expect to Perform well in something like m+

[oak sky]

wait for tuning

[balmy condor]

roll a dice, 1-2 is sin, 3-4 is sub, 5-6 is outlaw

choose accordingly

[oak sky]

what if he rolls a 10

[balmy condor]

the universe will guide you to the correct path

[oak sky]

(moonkin)

[bronze pike]

<feral>

Fixed it for u

[oak sky]

whats a feral

never seen one

[lucid birch]

Me I am feral

[bronze pike]

Unironically a sleeper spec

[oak sky]

@kind talon dont bring up mitch ( )

[kind talon]

Baihu white tiger of the east level 15 stripper 😭

(No one but us will understand that one 😏 )

[calm wigeon]

CT + poison bomb and Indiscriminate Carnage 😀 . I might be able to play assass again for m+

[balmy condor]

it's gonna be weak poison bomb

not legion poison bomb

just so we're clear

[woeful marlin]

is there a place to link meme builds ?

[balmy condor]

would be here

[woeful marlin]

i made one i like to call "bleeding io"

[calm wigeon]

stop ruining my fantasy!

[woeful marlin]

am i good to link it ? or will i get in trouble ?

[lucid birch]

Only time will tell

[royal lantern]

if your meme build is not approved, the punishment will be severe

[woeful marlin]

https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AACTPFVAVQEUUIIUzRCBAACKNUaIERVJkAETMEA

it's alright it'll be good for me to get used to being shunned

i imagine that's all this build will be good for 😛

[balmy condor]

I mean looks pretty standard

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/my-belt-belt-taking-off-gif-15824004

[balmy condor]

exsang is obviously a pretty funny choice

but the rest of it is.......... fine

ish

[woeful marlin]

had to go with all the bleeds

[balmy condor]

yeh I see that

[lucid birch]

ha ha

[coarse tusk]

I can see exsang being good

[balmy condor]

that makes one of us

[woeful marlin]

i thought it might be alright for it so you can do something on bosses

[balmy condor]

I would suggest picking probably anything else

[lucid birch]

Exsanguinate is one of the funniest baits ever created tbh

[coarse tusk]

Squeezing double set of bleeds, poisons into a 30% damage and 30%crit 10 window seems like it could be strong. Especially with a good trinket.

[balmy condor]

I've been explaining why it's not viable under normal conditions for almost 4 years now

and it just keeps coming back

[coarse tusk]

and you can save exsang again for another 1 minute sd window

[balmy condor]

and I just keep explaining

and it keeps coming back

and then I write a wowhead article about it, and it's quiet for a month

and then it shows back up in a 10.0 tree

and we're back to square one

[royal lantern]

but having 2xmore bleed ticks is good???????

im sorry

[lucid birch]

It’s the same ticks

Just less time

[balmy condor]

fuck you're right I didn't think about that

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/not-getting-the-joke-dog-throw-joke-you-gif-5205878

[woeful marlin]

if you refresh the bleeds will it continue to faster tick speed ?

[royal lantern]

@lucid birch

[balmy condor]

no

[woeful marlin]

ah that's kinda lame

[lucid birch]

I’ve been watching this unfold all day I have brain rot

[woeful marlin]

uhh i need it for the shadowdance burst window ? 😛

[balmy condor]

that would actually make it a viable talent

if you could perma extend it

[fickle herald]

perma extend, but you get bomb on jailer and then you want to kill yourself because you dropped dots

[balmy condor]

you drop dots when you get a bomb?

[fickle herald]

or some other mechanic that requires downtime

[balmy condor]

that shouldn't be happening my guy

you refresh before you go do the downtime

[lucid birch]

I think he’s saying if Exsanguinate was happening

[west garnet]

Doomblade is prolly another bleed for Lethal Dose; shame it's in an awkward spot and doesn't..really..do much on its own

[balmy condor]

we have a 20 second exsang on vendetta right now and it doesn't happen

[balmy condor]

it's following main line branch?

[woeful marlin]

will be interesting to see how it interacts with deathmark, like will the exsanguinated dots duplicate or will it just put another x combo point rupture on the target

[lucid birch]

o

[balmy condor]

doomblade is right here

[west garnet]

I just mean where it is compared to stuff you can otherwise get, it doesn't seem worth it

[balmy condor]

literally accessible for 1 point

[west garnet]

UNless they actually make Mutilate do damage but it hasn't done any for like...over a decade at this point

[royal lantern]

huh

[balmy condor]

are we playing the same game

[royal lantern]

doomblade was good because mutilate actually does decent dmg

its not your #1 dmg, but its 1 of the better generators in the game dmg wise

[balmy condor]

doomblade was one of our best legendaries for like the whole expansion now

[west garnet]

Idk, post like...mid-wrath it never felt like it really did anything on its own; it was just a really good poison applicator that also very efficiently generated CPs, but didn't do any damage on its own

[steel ridge]

assa is really doubling down on dots but the tree looks kinda uninspired

[balmy condor]

double dose in bfa?

nothing?

[west garnet]

I mean that's not actually mutilate, but fair point

[royal lantern]

thats some jumps you are doing there rn buddy

[balmy condor]

neither is doomblade?

I'm gonna lose it

the last 20 minutes in here has just been one fever dream after another

[lucid birch]

[steel ridge]

deathmark probably not interacting with sepsis tho, right master whispyr?

[balmy condor]

yeh

very doubtful on that one

[steel ridge]

since its no "lethal poison"

[balmy condor]

if it would've just said "poisons"

then maybe an argument could be made

but "lethal poison" is specifically the stuff you put on your weapons

[steel ridge]

exsang seems like a dead talent again tho xD

[balmy condor]

the most sane assassination player I've seen all day

[echo patrol]

I don't play assassination, might try it. Is this talent tree cringe?

[royal lantern]

inc: the first tier set gives us some weird interaction with bleeds again that makes exsang good and whispr ages by 90years

[balmy condor]

kinda yeah

[lucid birch]

We’ve found a prophet

[steel ridge]

😄

[woeful marlin]

im a pure warrior main if that explains anything 😛

[lucid birch]

[steel ridge]

as long as it doesnt actually increase anything its staying like that

[balmy condor]

the cringe about this is the lack of alacrity next to mfd, taking thistle tea, and going tiny toxic/zold instead of blitzing it down the right side for venom wounds

otherwise seems fine

[coarse tusk]

i don't see how you can't see how strong exsang can be

its like not competing against alacrity

[royal lantern]

thistle tea is such a big" looks great on paper, but is actually bad if you think about it" talent possible

[balmy condor]

uno reverse

[royal lantern]

WHOA 100ENERGY FOR FREE!!!!!

[balmy condor]

I don't see how you can see how strong exsang can be

[royal lantern]

yeha, no

[steel ridge]

thristle tea and tiny toxic blade are the two talents that absolutely shock me

[coarse tusk]

maybe cause i raided in nyalotha

[balmy condor]

bruh

[woeful marlin]

it doesn't do anything is this issue i think

[west garnet]

Weird thing about thistle is that over time, it's really bad energy, but the fact that it's all at once, on demand is interesting. I don't think "interesting" is enough to be "good" but yeah

[steel ridge]

i mean, what even are those

[balmy condor]

nyalotha had 3x shrouded, vita, galecallers, and expedients

where is that now

[blazing totem]

while comparing the other class trees to rogue tree, I feel like Deathmark will be a “pick one” node, maybe we will get old Vendetta as a choice there? definitely gonna be some choices there

[woeful marlin]

it just halfs the time one lot of bleeds last for

[balmy condor]

point me to the part of the tree

that giga buffs bleeds for 10 seconds

[coarse tusk]

deathmark is pretty much expedient

[lucid birch]

Time for bed while whispyr fends off the hyenas

[royal lantern]

tbf, that would be really boring cus then its really just a "what sims higher" node

[balmy condor]

I actually hate you

[coarse tusk]

with doubling the tick rate

[royal lantern]

and not a actuall choice

choice nodes should be both viable in different ways options

[coarse tusk]

then you have 30% shadow dance and 30% crit for 9 seconds

[royal lantern]

and not"is vendetta or deathmark simming higher this patch?"

[coarse tusk]

and you don't think there's no chance we could get an on use haste trinket?

[blazing totem]

yeah I know, but I think something like that will happen anyways

[balmy condor]

not as strong as galecaller, no

[steel ridge]

deathmark is actually our recent tier set without the snapshot and hectic side of it 😄

[royal lantern]

and tbf, i like deathmark way more then vendetta cus it actually seems like a assassination ability

[steel ridge]

and the damage amp is kinda baked into other nodes that increase our damage depending on dots

[royal lantern]

vendetta was good, but its also just a REALLY generic"you do more dmg now" ability

[coarse tusk]

so much power of death mark is in our bleeds now

[balmy condor]

you're also completely ignoring the absolute trash you have to take in order to get to dance

[coarse tusk]

doesn't seem like have to give up that much

[blazing totem]

one thing I like about deathmark is that it is bleed itself, otherwise I liked old vendetta don’t kink shame me

[kind talon]

Find weakness and cheat?

[balmy condor]

this guy just deleted feint

[royal lantern]

actually based

[lucid birch]

Told you

[blazing totem]

the strongest spammable defensive in the game

[royal lantern]

feint sucks anyway

[blazing totem]

who needs that crap

[lucid birch]

Healer issue

[royal lantern]

you lose dps for defensives?

fking lazy healers should wake up

[balmy condor]

I mean I can't argue with that honestly

[coarse tusk]

i use feint pretty often but you can do that

i hate that we could be forced down this path

[balmy condor]

if you remove the strongest defensive in your kit

you do get more dps

[royal lantern]

stand in fire, dps higher baby

[balmy condor]

that logic is infallible

[blazing totem]

to be fair that is entirely along blizz’s logic 😂

[gloomy knoll]

bruh farm is gonna be degen as fuck

literally 0 utility 0 defensives

for like +300 dps lol

[royal lantern]

farm is always degen as fuck sooooooo

[gloomy knoll]

true

how is that worse than 47 external grand prix

lol

[balmy condor]

reminds me of the old 140 corruption gamers

[west garnet]

What are you talkin' bout, whenever people have been allowed to do that that's exactly what they've always done

[balmy condor]

running double stars

trying to rng that shit

[gloomy knoll]

i think i ran like 80ish

[kind talon]

Haste haste haste haste

[gloomy knoll]

for most of reclear

[kind talon]

Exsang

Coggers

[gloomy knoll]

i was doing some crazy stars build on the dog boss

that was fun

[royal lantern]

just kill the boss before thing from beyond kills you

[sterile jackal]

did they say how many talent pages we will have?

[twilit hollow]

That one Chad with 15 ranks of tentacles getting 5 procs in opener

[blazing totem]

rogue was actually pretty good for insane corruptions

[gloomy knoll]

i enjoyed corruptions

the balance was nonexistant but the effects were fun

[blazing totem]

you had tools to delay the onslaught of everything

[twilit hollow]

Kill boss before second eye of corruption the size of the arena kills you

[royal lantern]

i was the chad that killed nzoth pre-vendor with not a single offensive corruption

[west garnet]

Corruption was great tbh, they just should've made how we got them at the end how we got them from the beginning

[royal lantern]

[cursive summit]

Wonder if Exsang will also work on all the extra bleeds that were given go Sin

[west garnet]

If it'd been targetable and such right away people would've hated it a lot less

[gloomy knoll]

yea

like the builds you could do with it needed to be balanced a bit but they were really neat / fun

[west garnet]

Like once I could target getting 9x ineffable truth on my Hpaladin, fun times

Before that? Fuuuuuuck that noise

[blazing totem]

fire mages will never forget corruptions, that’s for sure

[west garnet]

Perma-wings and hardspamming 50k holy shocks every global was the funnest shit I've ever done as a healer, RIP

[royal lantern]

glimmer was and still is a mistake

🙂

kill glimmer allready

[coarse tusk]

they have made crazy haste trinkets this expansion

its just warriors got it

it could easily be an agi trinket

[twilit hollow]

One haste trinket does not make exsang

[west garnet]

They just need to make holy two specs, one melee healer and one "traditional" healer like it was for ages

[blazing totem]

well that’s just holy priest

[royal lantern]

holy pala and priest work entirly different, what are you smoking

[west garnet]

It wasn't just big haste trinket, it was big haste trinket whose haste was being increased by like 90-110% on top of haste from gear

[coarse tusk]

i know this but its one piece in the puzzle that could actually bring exsang up

[royal lantern]

hpriest is way more CD/aoe focused

hpaladin in the "Normal"playstyle is a ST healing nuker

[twilit hollow]

Now find the other 80% haste from expedient missing baseline

[coarse tusk]

think of deathmark as 100% haste

because that's what it is

[royal lantern]

everytime somone in this channel says "exsang" whispyr ages by 4years

[coarse tusk]

and shadowdance as vendetta

[blazing totem]

[coarse tusk]

and then we get subterfuge

and ma

[twilit hollow]

Ah yes the cd haste

That's not raw base haste

[coarse tusk]

why do you think haste is good?

it increases our tick rates

[gloomy knoll]

does anyone actually dislike exsang

[twilit hollow]

[gloomy knoll]

because i saw realz saying earlier it was really polarizing

and some people hated it

[coarse tusk]

you would need liek 100% haste to double our tick rates

[gloomy knoll]

but it's like

i've never seen anyone say anything but i wanna play exsang so is that just because it's a popular opinion

[royal lantern]

its a bad ability that doesnt really interact with the kit at all, and when it works its only because of some weird outer sources

[gloomy knoll]

or does everyone actually enjoy it

[royal lantern]

exsang by itself is really REALLY fking bad

[gloomy knoll]

oh i get that it's shit

but like the playstyle

[west garnet]

If exsang actually made the bleeds do more damage in any way it'd be more interesting, but it just makes the same damage happen quicker which...does...basically nothing.

[gloomy knoll]

do people actually enjoy playing with exsang or is it just a popular opinion so people parrot it

i enjoyed it the very little i played with it in bfa

is a neat ability

[cursive summit]

I like it, just wish all it did was double the tick rate and not reduce the duration of the bleeds as well

[royal lantern]

people like beeing strong, when exsang is strong cus of shit like tier sets/corruptions its REALLY strong, so they get the mindset that exsang is insane and wanna play it, when in reality it does nothing at all

[gloomy knoll]

makes sense

always feels good topping meters

i like the juice bleeds feel where everything just starts burning and your dps shoots up so

i guess that was a part of it

[cursive summit]

Exsang in legion Pre-patch was insane then blizz mega nerfed it

[royal lantern]

it always helps to remember that 99,9999%of the time people say X was fun, it was only "fun" because it was strong or broken

[rugged moss]

https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AACTOFVFQBEBSoBRzJEAACKMUWIEQUJhVFDxA
what you guys say to this build?
full single target raid setting.

[coarse tusk]

yeah

exactly

[gloomy knoll]

yea alot of times things that are

just generally ok

[royal lantern]

they could make a new class that has only 1 ability that says "do 20000000000000000k dmg, 1sec cd"

[gloomy knoll]

become fun because they're really good

[royal lantern]

and people would tell you how its the best desinged class ever, so much fun

[gloomy knoll]

lol

[coarse tusk]

it did increase your energy regen

big burst and faster gameplay

[gloomy knoll]

i loved the burst

[coarse tusk]

that's actually fun to me

[gloomy knoll]

especially with the vendetta bleed talent

on short fights

[royal lantern]

and then you just put it into the same bleeds again cus you still gained the same amount of energy

[cursive summit]

You gained it quickly though

Speeds up the rotation while active

[coarse tusk]

so im still able to hit more buttons because of it

i don't care if i have to refresh

[gloomy knoll]

it is nice feeling fast for a bit

[royal lantern]

i mean, if you wanna spam buttons, assassination is PROBABLY not the right spec choice tbh

[gloomy knoll]

nah

it's about that juice

[royal lantern]

more energy just means "wow, i can do mut-mut-envenom 2x more!"

[coarse tusk]

i play the spec that is the best at the time

[gloomy knoll]

where like you get that spike

[bleak sky]

Good morning sin chat

[gloomy knoll]

and you're blasting

and then you go back to normal

so u can really feel the diffy

morning fam

[bleak sky]

Why am I waking up to a feintless build

[gloomy knoll]

bruh ignore

those

LOL

not talenting into raid utility

not talenting into feint

people just mad

[royal lantern]

DEFENSIVES ARE FOR WEAKLINGS

DONT LET THE BIG SHADOWBLADES INFLUENCE YOU, THEY DONT WANT YOU TOO SEE THE TRUTH

[gloomy knoll]

ain't no way in hell i'd ever give up feint or cloak lol

evasion sure but the other two

[royal lantern]

REMOVE ALL DEFENSIVES, GAIN MORE DMG, KILL BOSSES FASTER

[gloomy knoll]

not a chance in hell

cloaks actually a dps cd

people just don't know it

[royal lantern]

just get priest wings

[gloomy knoll]

true

and beacon

[coarse tusk]

if the fight calls for feint i can just move some talents points around

no big deal

[royal lantern]

btw, if you think that dps will go a bit degen for a bit more dmg

wait for the tanks

[rugged moss]

the only defensives you take are the ones you need to get higher in the tree

[royal lantern]

that barely survived a boss during progress once

[coarse tusk]

i don't see any rogues suggesting going down the middle for elusiveness

[royal lantern]

and then go "yeha, i removed 2deffensive abilitys and passive armor for a bit more dmg!!!" on the 2nd clear

[rugged moss]

look i spend some time creating the ULTIMATE single target throughput build

[royal lantern]

[rugged moss]

https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AACTOFVFQBEBSoBRzJEAACKMUWIEQUJhVFDxA

[royal lantern]

cus evasion is actually a ussules ability overall that almost never has any use

except for the weird minigame mode that is better ignored

[gloomy knoll]

i mean elusiveness is legit insane as fuck

it's just so good it's overkill

[coarse tusk]

are you crazy?

[royal lantern]

wait

shit

[gloomy knoll]

you just don't need that much of a defensive

[royal lantern]

elusivness

[coarse tusk]

i can't believe you even said that

[gloomy knoll]

think about it

[royal lantern]

i had evasion in my head

EVASION

i mean evasion

[gloomy knoll]

lmao

[bleak sky]

Every fight, got it

[royal lantern]

the 100%dodge chance that never does anything shit

[bleak sky]

And every m+

[royal lantern]

not the feint is actually good thing

[coarse tusk]

every fight does not call for feint

[bleak sky]

Sure they do

[royal lantern]

remember sludgefist where rogue had no deffensive at all?

[bleak sky]

Wdym

[deft vault]

Rogue had feint for the pillar smash every time

[bleak sky]

Feint didn't work on pillar breaks?

[coarse tusk]

it did

[sweet zealot]

tbh sin rogue talent tree looks rly good

[bleak sky]

Idk what tryan is trying to say then

[deft vault]

Feint is giga busted

[gloomy knoll]

feint is busted

[bleak sky]

Yeah feint is nuts

[gloomy knoll]

best defensive in the game

by far

and it used to have no cd

[royal lantern]

im somewhat sure it didnt work with either the pillar or the roar

[echo patrol]

Actual meme ambush build.

[coarse tusk]

id argue spell reflect is on that level

maybe better cause no gcd

[gloomy knoll]

yea spell reflect is pretty close

[deft vault]

Doesnt work on physycal stuff tho plus longer cd

[coarse tusk]

very few fights where you need feint cd on cd

[royal lantern]

i wanna play sub rogue

we have sub rogue at home

sub rogue at home:

[balmy condor]

the seli tech

[gloomy knoll]

yea that's why i said

there's almost nothing in the game that actually requires using elusiveness

instead of you just doing mechanics or positioning better

[echo patrol]

Bruh, sub rogue is sub rogue at home. Sublaw is way stronger.

[gloomy knoll]

it's literally just overkill

[coarse tusk]

no there are things where elusiveness would be good

azerite beams

that isn't feintable

[bleak sky]

Not having feint is a very very dumb decision imo

[royal lantern]

we litearlly dont have any numbers at all, where do you guys pull that stuff from lol

[gloomy knoll]

there are niche cases where elusiveness is good when feint doesn't work

but in general

fights aren't made with damage mechanics where you would need it

[royal lantern]

they can just say"ambush does 0 dmg on outlaw" and the entire dance outlaw thing is dead as an example

[gloomy knoll]

if you could play better

[royal lantern]

its all tuning in the end

[gloomy knoll]

like i played elusiveness in ataldazar a bunch

in high keys in bfa

just because feint didn't work on the bosses

[balmy condor]

I feel like you aren't a believer

[gloomy knoll]

and you couldn't avoid or play btter

the damage

[royal lantern]

i only belive in the harsh truth of sim numbers

[balmy condor]

have some hopium

[royal lantern]

btw, get to work sim slave

[balmy condor]

nothings implemented take the L furry fuck

[bleak sky]

Yeah whispyr go sim with no numbers

[royal lantern]

ask fuu to hack blizzard and get the numbers

[gloomy knoll]

hack into blizzards servers

[royal lantern]

stop beeing lazy

[gloomy knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/zach-mdx-mandala-exchange-gif-21603734

[echo patrol]

Ofc they could just dumpster the whole build with numbers, but mechanically speaking, it is permanent Shadow Dance + Dreadblades + 6 RTB buffs.

No-way they let it be perma shadowdance on live though. But we might as well discuss the balance with what we have and know, not by what things could or should be.

[drifting cosmos]

Feels like there are a lot of tuning required

Which is something they suck at

[royal lantern]

it always is

tuning is, has been and always will be something that makes or breaks a talent or spec

doesnt matter how interesting a option is, if the "ability does x%more dmg" ability is better, its better

[drifting cosmos]

They should prob develop AI to help

[royal lantern]

@vestal wren we need you robot man

[drifting cosmos]

At the moment you often feel like they can’t keep up

[royal lantern]

be the AI to help them

[drifting cosmos]

With tuning

Look at this 4 Cov thingy for each spec, big lol

[echo patrol]

Anyways, assuming the exact numbers is close to what it is now, is right side of the sin tree just objectively stronger?

[drifting cosmos]

🤔I also don’t understand how they determine meta specs, draw tickets inside blizzard? To see which spec’s dev is lucky and get to make their spec super op?

If anyone know please share 🙏

[echo patrol]

I think they genuinely try to make things balanced, but if one spec has been too meta for too long, they hit it with a hammer intentionally.

[bleak sky]

That's tuning right

Bring something down a bit, get others up a bit

[vestal wren]

whats the question?

[cursive summit]

That 3% poison can be buffed by shiv and the 20% stronger non lethal talent right?

[balmy condor]

yes

[cursive summit]

So like 6-7% and with the 0 CD shiv would make it permanent, seems kinda strong

[balmy condor]

0 cooldown shiv

would indeed be very strong

if that were to exist

which it doesnt

[bleak sky]

0 CD shiv

[balmy condor]

spread shiv manually to all targets with 0 cooldown

assassination 2 piece at home

[cursive summit]

Doesn't the tiny shiv talent make shiv have 0 CD or am I misremembering

[bleak sky]

500% damage costs no energy

[cursive summit]

Ahhh no energy

Okay my b

[balmy condor]

tiny toxic blade (derogatory)

[bleak sky]

Based

[worn sorrel]

What do you think of the aoe rupture garrote?

[balmy condor]

carnage is good

these are good

these are not

[royal lantern]

[worn sorrel]

And it seems exsanguination is completely dead?

[oak sky]

pb is bad

[balmy condor]

correct

[worn sorrel]

Sad

[kind talon]

zoldyck is good >:)

[worn sorrel]

I dont think we are getting any borrowed power so rip exsanguination

[balmy condor]

YES

HE GETS IT

[sturdy merlin]

Zoldyck not worth for M+ ?

[balmy condor]

zoldyck itself or zoldyck where it is on the tree

[gusty kestrel]

@balmy condor what about exsang tho

[oak sky]

not with venom rush and the talents before it

[balmy condor]

zoldyck itself is worth

but you have to swim through a billion points of trash to get there

so it's not worth

[worn sorrel]

How does assa look for m+?

[balmy condor]

very good must take talent

[royal lantern]

tier sets:

https://tenor.com/view/allow-us-to-introduce-ourselves-veggietales-veggie-larry-the-cucumber-bob-the-tomato-gif-21074601

[sturdy merlin]

Okay i get it

[balmy condor]

stronger but duno

[gusty kestrel]

ty sir just what i thought

[royal lantern]

it makes your bleeds tick 2x more often, ofc its good

/s

[true pelican]

wow deathmark + lethal dose seems sick

[bleak sky]

Can't say without numbers

[gusty kestrel]

there is 0 chance lethal dose stays like that

[balmy condor]

okay but what if it did

[worn sorrel]

I think I prefer the new "vendetta", we are not locked to one target with this one (I think?)

[balmy condor]

[kind talon]

LETHAL DOSE DOUBLE DIP DEAHTMARK OMG

[gusty kestrel]

way too strong with those numbers

[oak sky]

can they just call it vendetta

[balmy condor]

I mean I guess not, it'll just have twice the dots

[worn sorrel]

Im more talking about gameplay

Cause most people here dont play assa in keys cause it sucks

But I dont if its only because of numbers

[bleak sky]

Yes because the numbers are bad

[gusty kestrel]

also cause its way too much effort compared to other specs to even do remotely good damage

[bleak sky]

I really do enjoy sin in keys but good god it's bad

[worn sorrel]

I see

I dont know how I feel about the aoe rupture but at least you will have to reapply it yourself

[bleak sky]

Garrote and rupture

[royal lantern]

gerret1

[bleak sky]

It's also 10y range, not exactly large

[gusty kestrel]

ure a melee

having 10yds is already plenty

[worn sorrel]

It should be enough for most pulls no? Maybe a problem when we fight jumpy things

[bleak sky]

Melee auto range is 5yd right?

[royal lantern]

fighting jumpy things is always a problem for melee

so idk why the aoe bleed thing should be different for that now

[bleak sky]

Aoe bleed good

Good talent

[worn sorrel]

I really like new vendetta

But you dont keep perma double bleed right?

You can only maintain one

[balmy condor]

yes

[worn sorrel]

Is there any way we can use thistle tea?

[bleak sky]

Tea bad

[gusty kestrel]

yea if u spec into it

[balmy condor]

yeah you can take it off your bars

that's a decent use

sorry

BIG ASSASSINATION ROGUE BURST META TRIPLE TEA INFINITE ENERGY BUILD

[bleak sky]

Good, that's good you make the YouTube vbucks

[worn sorrel]

Yeah it seemed bad but i find it cool as an ability

[pseudo hamlet]

It's too soon to be excited or even disappointed, because DF isn't even on Alpha

There will be plenty of balance and fixing, so for now I am treating the new trees as a cool sandbox to play with

[royal lantern]

wdym "too soon to be disappointed"

we talk about the wow community mate

its never too soon to get angry

[pseudo hamlet]

Haha yeah

Though I am kinda scared, because I chose Assassination because it was kinda chill spec with low APM

The new abilities /synergies seem fun, but I hope they won't overcomplicate the rotation and overall Assassination gameplay

[royal lantern]

i really really doubt we will go far beyond the ussual"keep bleeds up, use envenom and maybe 1-2 other abilitys to dump cp" gameplay

[drifting cosmos]

Is it same gameplay for keys?

[bleak sky]

probably, but who knows

[sand gyro]

I haven’t touched Sin since 9.0 but these talents are making me want to play it again…

[balmy condor]

good! they're exciting

[sand gyro]

As a mainly M+ player the aoe options are looking nice

[balmy condor]

I agree the m+ options are super nice

We lucked out on aoe stuff this time

[autumn shoal]

Yes, the aoe build are looking very nice, i'm a bit sad to see sepsis but no kingsbane...

[balmy condor]

Basically everything we asked for

[balmy condor]

The dev was open to the idea

We’re definitely seeing some stuff move around

[autumn shoal]

I hope so, i prefer the spell and the mechanics around

any chance you know if garrots will be buffed by shadowdance?

i mean, the 50% parts

[balmy condor]

Unlikely

It’s possible

[autumn shoal]

Maybe way too strong but i like the idea

[balmy condor]

But I wouldn’t expect it to

[sand gyro]

I’m waiting for the Havoc talents before I make a decision but if it’s bad I’m going back to Rogue for DF

[viscid spear]

Suffer with us, surely they will reward us.

[balmy condor]

[oak sky]

Havoc has the same dev so you might end up lucky

[balmy condor]

I wouldn’t play a dh simply for the fact that I wouldn’t survive in fel hammer

[oak sky]

[balmy condor]

I have been there twice in my life

And each time was a traumatizing fever dream

[bleak sky]

wait for real?

[oak sky]

Dude im like scared to go to any other class discords

[bleak sky]

I thought the dev only played priest/dh/rogue

[viscid spear]

[bleak sky]

not that he was doing dev shit for them

[oak sky]

Havoc is dh

Nah he said hes doing dh i thought

[bleak sky]

[balmy condor]

He’s doing dh yeah

[bleak sky]

I will simp for this man

or woman

or them

[oak sky]

Hey chill

No changes have been made yet

Dont plan the party

[balmy condor]

If it’s anything like sin it’ll be a banger

[empty hinge]

Give me a name I want bloodlet

[balmy condor]

Anyways sleep time now you all be good discord kittens

[bleak sky]

holy shit his messages in fel hammer

poor fella getting hammered by DHs

[oak sky]

Dev for the talents for next expansion not dev for current class design

[bleak sky]

[bleak sky]

nn

[viscid spear]

You know I'm the only kitten here and you also know I'm bad

[sand gyro]

Who is the dev?

Looking at sample trees no Blindside in raid ? 😦

[hollow escarp]

it's available on the tree

[stoic ferry]

am I hard coping or does assa get pretty good prio raid spot thanks to atrophic poison? 3% dmg reduction, amped up by master poisoner, and then on demand further improved by shiv would be pretty valuable? Big raid wide aoe, have your rogue hold shiv for it to add to the stack of healing cds?

[sand gyro]

Yeah ur gonna take at least one Sin as it stands I think

Maybe one Outlaw too to put in a party with your Warlocks/Mages and Restless Crew

[strange python]

sub in the mud

[vestal wren]

just add a raid buff to sub

so you have 3 rogues mandatory

def. sounds like something healthy

[drifting cosmos]

looks like we will have a lot of buttons to press

🤨 cold blood taken by every spec?

[steel ridge]

cold blood is a very weird talent

[subtle kiln]

until you just start macroing stuff together

[drifting cosmos]

seems like a pvp talent to me, but it is in very weird spot, kinda had to get it for downstairs talents

[steel ridge]

cannot wrap my head around how i would use it other than just bind it to some macro and be done with it

if it empowers a whole garrotte on the other hand....

[hollow escarp]

use it with vanish so you guarantee a crit because new master assassin is shit

[drifting cosmos]

🤔 unless snipe it for some invis stuff big dot dmg?

[steel ridge]

the entire assassination tree looks very uninspired and dull

[drifting cosmos]

master assassin % lowered by expansion

after DF it will be removed i think

[steel ridge]

its littered with passives and obnoxious things like amplifying poison

[drifting cosmos]

i think it has potential, just need to swap a few things out or reposition

[steel ridge]

like passive passives... +x% damage

[drifting cosmos]

👻 that's always the way of sin

[subtle kiln]

it got discussed with the dev and some possible changes tossed at it

[steel ridge]

out of the 3 specs, the assa tree is the worst imo

[drifting cosmos]

🤔 with other crit % increase it might be ok, not sure, but it feels bad that it is lowered again

[hollow escarp]

sub is worse

[indigo mulch]

I think assa tree looks okay, i don't know what people expected out of it. Besides it's not really done yet.

[subtle kiln]

no one cares about the dmg, just the cps which got brought up

[steel ridge]

sub is weird, but its somehow not turning me down as much

[hollow escarp]

idk what were you expecting when all other classes just got their spellbook + talents + some returning spells in the talent tree

[tiny ember]

Not gonna lie i kinda want RogueFlight now cause the trees all look amazing maybe not sub that much

the only issue i find is that you will always have to play assa rogue on prog with the DR

[steel ridge]

i mean its probably fine for blasting a raidboss and the carnage talent looks spicy aswell

[tiny ember]

maybe have the assa raid utiltiy in the rogue tree

[steel ridge]

but its just so narrow and not much horizontal choices

i mean its good that you can basically opt out of any AoE there is 😄

full on ST attack dog

[hollow escarp]

pretty sure you have to take fok

[steel ridge]

yeah fok is mandatory

i mean you get dashing scoundril, zoldyck and doomblade at the same time, which is quite alot of legendary power

and i have no idea what TTB is supposed to do

got a feeling they meant to put the conduit there, either lethal poisons or toxic blade

[alpine garden]

Stab things

[steel ridge]

or whats it called, the one that increases nature damage even further

maybe the intend to increase shiv damage by alot so it actually does something 😮

[alpine garden]

I'm intrigued by deathmark/exsanguinate

[steel ridge]

not really, lethal dose increases your damage to the target based on how many dots you have

why would you want them gone sooner?

i mean you will probably reapply garrotte and rupture at the end of deathmark to get another set of duplicates that last another 30 seconds or whatnot

just to have max lethal dose gain

deathmark is really cool, but exsanguinate remains weird on its own

[alpine garden]

Yeah for sure

[steel ridge]

having duplicated lethal poisons sounds interesting for pvp with wound poison tho

[alpine garden]

Subtlety getting flagellation and all rogues getting shadow dance is not a twist I was expecting

[steel ridge]

for extra healing reduction

[steel ridge]

yeah shadowdance being in the class tree is really irritating ngl... might even be to powerful to give it to outlaw

cant see it being all that useful for assassination tho

[indigo mulch]

I can see SD with garrote spamming in m+ being very good

lol

[steel ridge]

yeah ok i give you that

but with indiscriminate carnage you get massive aoe garrotes and ruptures anyway

and assa has no cdr for shadowdance like the other two

[indigo mulch]

1min SD's are good enough

Vanish 2min

You can use one on each pack pretty much

[steel ridge]

ye but thats what subterfuge is for right?

you would have to spend alot of points to get it and you cannot make much use of find weakness

[indigo mulch]

No, thats what improved Garrote is for.

[steel ridge]

since all your damage bypasses armor anyway

[cursive summit]

Shadow dance would be like a mini dps CD when paired with that Sin talent that causes poisons to have 100% chance to apply while stealthed, no?

[alpine garden]

Generally feels like there's going to be more buttons to press

[indigo mulch]

Its going to be a lot more buttons to press i think

[kind talon]

@steel ridge shadowdance is 32% increased damage if you take nightstalker

if you take MA it gives you 30% crit for the duration as well

[steel ridge]

yeah i know and i 100% doubt thats staying 😄

[kind talon]

ye idk

[steel ridge]

its very weird with shadowdance being there

opposed to THISTLE TEA lmao

[alpine garden]

Haha yeah

[steel ridge]

they must have been absolutely baked when they put that there

give that to mistweavers for mana reg

and put bone spike there lel

or the raid buff

or something that actually does something

[ruby oyster]

is MA supposed to work with shadow dance now?

[kind talon]

Yes

[drifting cosmos]

hybrid sin and sub

👻

[kind talon]

MA is while stealthed and shadowdance gives you the benefits of stealth

[ruby oyster]

how do we know that? devs said something already?

[kind talon]

You would most likely only play this build in dungeons though

[drifting cosmos]

it kinda takes identity away from sub

[ruby oyster]

thats not how it works now tho? unless blizz said something, why do we think MA will apply to shadowdance?

[kind talon]

“combat bonuses while stealth is active also work while Dance is active, as a general rule”

#outlaw message

[kind talon]

Of course it’s not how it works now sin doesn’t have shadow dance 💀

[ruby oyster]

thats the same text as current tooltip

and currently MA doesnt work with shadow dance?

[woeful meteor]

It isnt the same tooltip

[kind talon]

Sin doesn’t currently have shadow dance?

[woeful meteor]

and this

[kind talon]

So how do you know that it doesn’t currently work???

[ruby oyster]

MA is a legendary

[pastel onyx]

?

[kind talon]

Holy

[pastel onyx]

top right corner

[kind talon]

also is only 30% in dragonflight

[toxic locust]

sub can get MA in it's legendary form

[ruby oyster]

obv its a talent for assa but its also a legendary which doesnt work with SD and iirc, it didnt work in legion as well with shadow dance that is

[slim estuary]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[pastel onyx]

there is only one way to know for sure

wait

[ruby oyster]

sure but i think that its safe to assume that it doesnt work with SD, unless said otherwise, i would be really surprised if it did

[pastel onyx]

actually

sounds logical

yee

[kind talon]

this is the dev

this is the talent

[pastel onyx]

ye thats the guy

who made

trees

[brave gyro]

MA was changed back in legion very early on to not work with SD, and it never worked for SD since, idk if that was the confusion

[vestal wren]

master assassin does not work

with shadow dance

[pastel onyx]

[vestal wren]

because shadow dance is not true stealth

[ruby oyster]

ok i see i didnt know that, but the SD tooltip on live is "and grants all the combat benefits of Stealth for 8 sec" while DF tree is "and grants all the combat benefits of Stealth for 9 sec" so literally the same and we know that it doesnt work on live

[vestal wren]

else you would see people run arround with ma a lot more on subtlety

shadow dance on sub has atm a 60%+ uptime

[kind talon]

yes

[vestal wren]

would mean 100% crit for 60% of the fight

[kind talon]

current master assassin legendary doesnt work with current shadow dance fuu

but as per the dev's wording

on the tree

and in discord

unless he explicitly states otherwise

[pastel onyx]

Will bleeds snapshot if u press SD

[kind talon]

the assassination talent Master Assassin on the dragonflight tree should work with Shadow Dance

[pastel onyx]

with dmg amp

[ruby oyster]

seems like he was answering an outlaw question so i dunno

[pastel onyx]

sd + nighstalker for example

[vestal wren]

i don't think he would change fundermentally how dance works

but maybe he did re-write the spell

who knows

[toxic locust]

it might be fine for sin since it won't have deepening shadows or restless blades

but

[vestal wren]

sounds unlikely to me

[pastel onyx]

sd still gives u 30% dmg amp if u talented into nightstalker right

[vestal wren]

could also be that stealth handling is diffrent for sin

[pastel onyx]

or it works only on abilities

[vestal wren]

so that it actually procs ma

[dark token]

Pretty sure the reason master assassin is at 30% now is cause it works with dance now

[vestal wren]

but i wouldn't go with the base assumption that it does

[dark token]

Based on his comments he cleaned up dance to proc all stealth effects

[vestal wren]

ahh fair

does subterfuge also proc ma or procs from dance?

[ruby oyster]

it didnt in the past

or rather it did, and then didnt lol

[vestal wren]

it didn't

you just could protect stelth with dance

[dark token]

No cause that's not stealth

[vestal wren]

but subterfuge is a combat effect?

so it would proc from dance?

[kind talon]

subterfuge is

"you can use abilities that require stealth for 3 seconds after breaking stealth"

"breaking stealth" -- explicitly coming out of true stealth

[vestal wren]

so subterfuge does not work i assume

[dark token]

My assumption of how this works reading his comments:

• Dance procs MA now as dance = stealth
• Subterfuge does not = stealth, it just allows you to use stealth abilities

[kind talon]

dance = stealth but ending dance =/= breaking stealth

[dark token]

Which would explain the lower crit chance and short duration of MA

[kind talon]

if that makes sense fuu

[vestal wren]

yes, but also weird that dance works diffrently now

[dark token]

Why else neuter MA if you weren't making it work with more things consistently

Well they are reworking a lot of things to be different now from previous expac

It literally is a talent revamp

[vestal wren]

subterfuge would be a nice choice if it extended ma tbh