assassination

[bleak sky]

with Cev's voice I don't doubt he stole his girl ngl

[thorn fjord]

watch.. They'll back pedal and give us back Vend

[spice spire]

I don’t but I’d have to play with it

[balmy condor]

it's just what is "duplicate"

twice the damage?

[spice spire]

That’s what I’m saying dude

[limber lion]

Have you heard @spice spire

[balmy condor]

literally 2 instances? does that work with the stacking bleed damage increase?

[fleet anchor]

Me reading Deathmark I mostly just translate it as "Vendetta that doesn't work on Envenom and Mutilate"

[limber lion]

man's got pipes for days

[bleak sky]

quake got that radio voice

[ebon notch]

i nutted bro

[spice spire]

That mf has a Texas vibe

[ebon notch]

mans hawt

[spice spire]

On god

Ain’t no way

[thorn fjord]

Southern Draw?

[rapid flame]

Amplifying Poison is Agonizing Poison but with additional steps?

[cold spoke]

@fleet anchor no vw + thistle tea heard it's tier s build

[balmy condor]

amp poison is envenom buffer

[limber lion]

How many points do we get on the class tree?

[ebon notch]

drawl

[limber lion]

@balmy condor

you probs know

[rapid flame]

sounds big with some gold blood envonem blast

[spice spire]

I don’t think so, but the eu boys do

[strange python]

Deathmark is literally what our 4p shoulda just been. Plus the 60 energy.

[thorn fjord]

I thought Cev was EU

lol

[grizzled jay]

Deathmark + Maim Mangle

[chilly marsh]

if it dont work with that talent it will be so bad...

[limber lion]

:3

[fleet anchor]

Yeah that's a good question. Sounds super jank if it's actually a second debuff. But we'll see.

[spice spire]

Wait

Dark timeline

[grizzled jay]

Also would Deathmark duplicate AoE Rupture and Garrote from Carnage?

[spice spire]

Double bleed with exsanguinste

[balmy condor]

on that target sure

[cold spoke]

[thorn fjord]

Dont you dare bring that into existence @spice spire

[fleet anchor]

Thistle Tea will double the APM of non-VW Assassination builds, don't hate on it.

[balmy condor]

from 2 to 4?

[fleet anchor]

Yes

[spice spire]

BASED

[fleet anchor]

🤣

[grizzled jay]

2 to 2.3

[balmy condor]

non VM non dashing assassination builds

very cool

[limber lion]

how many points can we use on the class/spec trees?

someone help

[strange python]

If there is a 4 APM spec...and it's competitive...i'm doing it.

[balmy condor]

idk like 60

[limber lion]

fak

[grizzled jay]

You know I'll play it in Alpha

[rapid flame]

Interested to see the values of Scent of blood, remember it was meh throughout all of bfa; value might be really big with deathmark on some fights, fun to play around i guess is the better way to look at it?

[balmy condor]

it was pretty okay in bfa actually

[tiny valley]

31 in rogue tree, 30 in spec tree

[balmy condor]

we stacked it 3x in season 2

[elfin valley]

u just needed a few of em right @balmy condor

[hollow escarp]

yeah, it wasn't meh at all lol

[grizzled jay]

SoB + Carnage is giga funnel

Gonna be lit

[limber lion]

https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AAB8AAAB6AA

wtf

wowhead already has a talent calculator for hunter

[balmy condor]

yeah

they're working on rogue atm

[limber lion]

that was quick god damn

[hollow escarp]

[limber lion]

okay so 31 class points and 30 spec points

[tiny valley]

hunter aint done either

[strange python]

someone's gotta plug the info into the display

[limber lion]

let's see what we can do

[oak pulsar]

Man I want a true poison build and feel like an assassin

[ebon notch]

cev trying to build a viable setup through tears and noccos

[thorn fjord]

copium

[chilly marsh]

Lethal Dose + Deathmark +Dragon-Tempered Blades = giga dmg?

ifi made math right its 16% dmg

[craggy oak]

I think sin tree might suffer from you want to take everything

[balmy condor]

that doesn't sound like suffer

[ebon notch]

its not even want to its have to

[balmy condor]

that sounds like what it's supposed to be

[icy nova]

Aoe burst damage be lookin THICK with indiscriminate carnage, improved garrote, bloody mess, scent of blood and poisoned katar

[chilly marsh]

actually 18% because deathmark is a bleed too

[rapid flame]

thats how its ment to be

[ebon notch]

i wish i didnt have to talent into fok in raid

[balmy condor]

it's supposed to be a choice, if you want to take everything it's working as intended

[rapid flame]

not this dogshit past 3 expansions u avoid 50% of the tree cause it gives less damage than not taking anything

[elfin valley]

i really like the idea of deathmark

[bleak sky]

I DON'T WANT MEANINGFUL CHOICES

[rapid flame]

Looks very nice for a lot of classes so far, here's to hoping cope

[thorn fjord]

me neither tbh

[violet tusk]

I hope you can build a nice Ass build for m+ <3

[icy nova]

Indiscriminate carnage 5 stack rupture vanish garrote fok fok fok crimson tempest

[craggy oak]

Carnage for m+ sounds nasty

[icy nova]

SPICY

[balmy condor]

the real question with indiscriminate carnage is "also apply", does that mean subterfuge?

[strange python]

Rip our fucking slice n dice uptime

[thorn fjord]

We're going to be forced to mythic prog with Pirate

i see it happening

[ebon notch]

imagine you pop carnage and it takes you out of stealth

[balmy condor]

why?

[ebon notch]

so you have to pre pop it

[balmy condor]

I belive it

[elfin valley]

mass subterfuge garrotes, in a massive pull

[limber lion]

I'm ready for raid

[hollow river]

Why does exsanguinate still exist

[ebon notch]

CT?

[chilly marsh]

no zodiac?

[cold spoke]

you left out sepsis

[limber lion]

yes and doomblade because of Lethal Dose increasing overall damage with every bleed/poison on the target

[oak pulsar]

I love that flag is gone I am so tired of it

[fleet anchor]

Your build looks good Cev

Probably the only good build 🤣

[chilly marsh]

[limber lion]

CT possibly changing to Sepsis, but that's about it

[chilly marsh]

:p

[limber lion]

With Venomous Wounds being so far right and all the good stuff on the left

there's not much we can do

[hollow river]

Guys this is way too many buttons. How will Fotmrogue be able to manage it all?

[ebon notch]

wtf

[thorn fjord]

Macros

[ebon notch]

calling me out like this

[chilly marsh]

if CT is good for ST its a extra 2% for letal dose 🥂

[hollow river]

[thorn fjord]

I dont want to continue having to press CT in ST tbh

[fleet anchor]

Man I can quit without even doing any sims for 10.0 if the talents stay this straightforward 🤣

Bring back the Excel sheets

[chilly marsh]

in raidbots we trust :p

[fleet anchor]

I do get a chuckle about Sepsis being haphazardly strewn across all 3 spec trees in random places

[chilly marsh]

do the math i will obey

[hollow river]

#assassination #ForeverFae

Oh it’s in all 3?

[fleet anchor]

Yes

[thorn fjord]

Everybody have their pirate hats ready?

[oak pulsar]

Is outlaw looking good?

I'm at work and cant check them all

[hollow river]

Kinda weird I thought it’d only be in assa

[fleet anchor]

Man the Outlaw and Sub trees are so much more swole than the Assassination tree

[kindred rapids]

some real sepsis enjoyers at bliz

[thorn fjord]

is that really a surprise though?

Blizz always hating on sin

[hollow river]

Did we get preparation back at all

o:

[rapid flame]

inb4 we're all forced pirate cause cdr for mage pyro and warlock infernals 😦

[hollow river]

Or anticipation? I forget

[thorn fjord]

its only a matter of time tbh

[grizzled jay]

Rogue trees will be a once over I'm sure

[fleet anchor]

Pretty clear which is better here

[thorn fjord]

LOL

[misty holly]

Please I hope Echoing Reprimand isn't going to be meta from the general tree.

[grim tangle]

it won't be for sin

[fleet anchor]

Seems like a large point investment on the class tree that is already really spread out

So I somewhat doubt it

[thorn fjord]

wonder what was going through their head with that one

[fleet anchor]

Assassination will have even less reason to use ER with the design on Deathmark since fuck Envenom damage I guess

[thorn fjord]

i feel like ER was overall the least favorite of all the abilities

Does anyone at blizz actually play rogue? lol

[misty holly]

Replace it with Bone Spike!

Someone write Metzen

[fleet anchor]

ER was really fun on Sub but it played the least consistent in terms of it being rather bad for Assassination

[wind dune]

God this tree looks horrible

[fleet anchor]

Flag would have been the most universally applicable

Since it was good for all 3 specs

[thorn fjord]

Yeah

[rapid flame]

glasses on dude wdym

[thorn fjord]

i personally didnt like ER even on sub

its not like you felt great pressing it

[sharp falcon]

didn't forget, each selection grants 1 charge, taking both = 2 charges

[elfin valley]

i actually liked ER as sin

[bleak sky]

sick in the head

[misty holly]

Is anyone able to time-out Tango for that comment?

[elfin valley]

;-;

[rain mortar]

Am I dumb or is rupture nowhere in the trees?

[fleet anchor]

I assumed that would be the case but feels super awkward, especially with Grappling Hook being such a high node for Outlaw with Shadowstep in a "required" tree for the class ability.

[balmy condor]

aight hivemind, we need help, I'm going to send an image, you're going to tell me what spell it is

[bleak sky]

bingus

[bleak sky]

thistle tea

[elfin valley]

exodia

[thorn fjord]

This swaps your spec to outlaw prepull

[bleak sky]

aimed shot

[fleet anchor]

Nerves!

[balmy condor]

minalba I will mute you

if you ping me one more time

[sharp falcon]

Yeah, it should probably move up to a more accessible location. It was easy to equate it in each row with other energy-related-bonuses, but VW realistically is more core/important. This is probably (obviously) not the final revision of the tree. Also the Assassin version of whatever stealth/Dance build needs a bit more incentive.

[misty holly]

First one looks like a paper folding representation of a bear - or maybe a frog.

[bleak sky]

o i forgot to mute pings mb

[toxic quail]

hi whisp 🙂

ol fine ass

[grizzled jay]

That's the DR icon

[balmy condor]

[fleet anchor]

Yeah this would definitely be good. VW is very core to the spec's APM and general feel/gameplay. Without VW Assassination honestly is pretty non-functional.

[grizzled jay]

Nerves of Steel

[balmy condor]

I need spell names that ALREADY EXIST

[velvet ridge]

what does deeper strategem mean? increased effects? is this new?

Deeper Stratagem: Gain 1 additional max combo point. Your finishing moves that consume more than 5 combo points have increased effects.

[indigo mulch]

I really don't understand deathmark.

[bleak sky]

vendetta

[balmy condor]

probably means it does more damage with 6cp than 5cp

[fleet anchor]

I would also say I still very very much object to Cheat Death being locked in the bottom right corner for similar reasons

[velvet ridge]

ah thats lame, i thought it ment like it applied another effect

[sharp falcon]

lol

[thorn fjord]

I feel like this will more than likely get changed

[indigo mulch]

?

[fleet anchor]

Cheat is one of the few "universal" Rogue talents/utility traits and putting it so deep in the "Sub" part of the class tree is very limiting

[bleak sky]

deathmark is vendetta

[fleet anchor]

And probably will just dictate a lot of builds

[thorn fjord]

I didn’t even bother looking for feint

Is it on there?

[indigo mulch]

Ahh, it makes posion and bleeds double tick i guess

[ebon notch]

yes

on the class talent

[fleet anchor]

Feint is top of class tree

[grizzled jay]

Rogue didn't get a single choice node lol

How is that a thing

[bleak sky]

tree is not final

[sharp falcon]

Early conversations help of course, but internal playtesting is already revealing how energy-starved Assa is without late-expansion haste and engines like VW... underestimated the economy, likely to adjust position (and probably back to either 7 or 8 energy like it has been at times in the past)

[bleak sky]

who knows what we get

[thorn fjord]

Doesn’t spending point on things like feint and CD feel kinda shitty though?

[grizzled jay]

Doubtful they add a choice node when there isn't one.

[cold spoke]

not really

[fleet anchor]

Yeah this is definitely a thing. Early on in SL it was propped by the SnD changes made in beta for Energy Regen. Then those got changed, but at a time when tuning happened, etc. VW has definitely been a core aspect and why it's so important to keep high DoT uptime, etc.

[pseudo hamlet]

Babe wake up, the new talents trees have arrived!

[verbal copper]

did they give us raid utility?

[limber lion]

Ya

[indigo mulch]

Yes.

I wonder if it will actually apply to all form of damage. Like AoE that the boss casts etc

Or if its just melee dmg.

[slim pebble]

What did they give sin!? I thought it was outlaw that got raid utility

[grizzled jay]

Sin got DR, Outlaw got CDR

[thorn fjord]

3% DR

[grizzled jay]

Sin has 3% raid dr. 3.6% with non lethal talent. 6%/7.2% with shiv

[tidal gorge]

I like the one that gives you aoe garrote and rupture, but I wish it lined up with vanish :\

[tiny ember]

what about sub?

[placid pagoda]

Dr = diminish returns?

[bleak sky]

damage reduction in this context

[sharp falcon]

just shadow dance ez

[placid pagoda]

Ah interesting

[tidal gorge]

Yes, the famed assassination ability shadow dance

[sharp falcon]

yea

[fleet anchor]

Hopefully the wowhead calculators will be working soon. Really need to play with some builds and the breakpoints before all this can sink in and I can write up my feelings in general.

[viscid spear]

"The rogue community is getting restless, throw out some random trees and we'll come back to it two weeks before launch"

[tidal gorge]

Oh you're not memeing, I didn't notice they made it an all rogue talent

[worn sorrel]

Why is cold blood in assa? is it normal? (new assa player)

[tidal gorge]

lol

[velvet ridge]

is atrophic poison mean that we will be taken to raids now

[worn sorrel]

Like I guess it works well with fan or mutilate but it feels weird, no?

[indigo mulch]

Depends on how it works though

Imagian if its only melee boss dmg. Then noone will care tbh

[grizzled jay]

Yes it was always in sin tree

[winter vapor]

I suspect its just the hangover from classic as @grizzled jay said

[worn sorrel]

Oh it seems like the typical ability you use to burst and not to build

[grizzled jay]

Like in Classic and such

[bleak sky]

@limber lion assa tree is live
https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AACDAAACCAA

[grizzled jay]

Well it was in Sin at a time when you would cross-talent

[indigo mulch]

I wouldnt call it live 😄

[velvet ridge]

vicious venoms! exciting, i love it

[limber lion]

not quite lol

[worn sorrel]

How would it be used? to get cp faster?

[grim tangle]

also can we not get energy back from targets dying with rupture anymore?

[worn sorrel]

And thistle tea looks cool for assa

[bleak sky]

I didn't see the right side was fucked up 💀

[marble hemlock]

class one works

assa is coming next it seems

[violet jackal]

that sure it a lot of ?s

[balmy condor]

indeed

should be in like 15 min

[worn sorrel]

Is hunter already done?

[balmy condor]

yes

[worn sorrel]

Or they started with rogue

oh cool

[balmy condor]

hunter should be working

but if you find issues let me know

[wild lion]

wait assa with shadowdance meta?

[limber lion]

Nah

[balmy condor]

definitely not

[limber lion]

Not much incentive in picking it

[tidal gorge]

The meta will obviously be tiny toxic blade

[worn sorrel]

In m+ to spam garrote?

[indigo mulch]

So wait

[worn sorrel]

Like 8 target garrote

[cold spoke]

assa tree on wowhead

[indigo mulch]

you can get shadowdance as assassination? o.o

[worn sorrel]

yeah check class tree

[bleak sky]

we don't know if it works with subterfuge

[elfin valley]

@worn sorrel we dont know if thatll make subt work

[cold spoke]

sums up assa tree tbf

[worn sorrel]

Yeah I see

[bleak sky]

but even then it doesn't seem all that great

[worn sorrel]

If it did, would it be good?

I see

[grizzled jay]

SD won't proc Subt because stealth isn't breaking with SD

But you'd still go Subt cause you can SD Ambushes with the extra CPs from talents

[trail mica]

No echoing blades... I'm so sad

[balmy condor]

does anyone know what CURRENT ITEM/ABILITY has this icon

[worn sorrel]

Improved Garrote: Garrote deals 50% increased damage and has no cooldown when used from Stealth and for 3 sec after breaking Stealth.

We dont need subterfuge¿

[cold spoke]

wait where is shuriken combo

[half light]

what do you think of indiscriminate carnage

[worn sorrel]

Shadow dance should 100% work for garrote then no?

[limber lion]

I would have personally preferred a raid dmg, like 5% crit, as our raid buff but it is what it is

I don't think us reducing the bosses damage is very rogue-like

[viscid spear]

Blizz killed the ninja fantasy

[strange python]

so what's our buff - 3% decreased dmg done by a boss

[limber lion]

Still think it's weird how it's not centralized in the tree, like PI is for priests

[limber lion]

Yes.

[strange python]

i mean whatever - better than nothing.

[grizzled jay]

3% raid dr. 3.6% with non lethal talent. 6%/7.2% with shiv

[strange python]

oh god

now our RL will call out our shivs for us

[half light]

that sounds like shiv is gonna be a raid cd lol

[strange python]

rerolling feral

[balmy condor]

very good

[tidal gorge]

These trees probably need a lot of work. I haven't been watching other class trees, but do others have something like sepsis, which is in all the spec trees instead of the class tree?

[sharp falcon]

yes, any combat bonuses "while stealthed" should equally work while Shadow Dance is active

[limber lion]

That's the issue

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/Ja8ma/3bc85bbbdd.jpg

cough

[half light]

I like the way it sounds Indiscriminate Carnage, it reminds me of Lock's seed of corruption in some way

[limber lion]

Shiv increasing our damage, but also being tied to the raid buff is terrible design

[grizzled jay]

Every spec got some covenant power yeah

[marble hemlock]

i dont like this

at all

say goodbye to having any defensives at all. whatsoever.

[strange python]

it was terrible when it inc our dmg and dispelled an enrage haha

[marble hemlock]

bye cheat, by elusiveness

[grizzled jay]

I noticed we don't get any tree toppers too lol

[limber lion]

Shiv is one of our main cooldowns and should be sent on cooldown to maximize damage

[marble hemlock]

hope cloak works :))))

[pseudo hamlet]

I like the new talents, but I think they'll make the rotation overcomplicated.
I am not that excited, because I know that they'll probably balance it just as it is now...

[violet jackal]

That what I also settled on

[grizzled jay]

@marble hemlock thoughts on Ambush CP talent + SD? Or giving up too much on left?

[marble hemlock]

i was thinking about it just now as well

what the fuck is coldblood doing on the left side tho

and mfd on right

[thorn fjord]

Glass cannon baby

[marble hemlock]

lemme fix up stream for this, my brain is melting

[sharp falcon]

Legacy reasons, but swapping them isn't out of the question and makes at least some sense

[limber lion]

There's some things that look good and some that are just very, very bad.

[half light]

it's also up for changes, no?

[limber lion]

Yeah, anything can happen.

[bleak ledge]

Scent of blood is a callback all the way to Wrath assa isnt it?

[limber lion]

Scent of Blood was an azerite trait in BFA.

[half light]

so we should play the alpha to give feedback, right?

[thorn fjord]

Totally

[bleak ledge]

ahh i was thinking of Hunger for blood

[half light]

lmao

[wild lion]

wait garrote mor crit dmg?

[marble hemlock]

that doesnt work on garrote

[balmy condor]

assassination calculator is live

[half light]

I'm serious haha, I'd really like to have assa working for dragonflight

[marble hemlock]

[fleet anchor]

I think this may be an option too

[viscid spear]

[subtle tundra]

mfd deeper

wow

[grizzled jay]

Works on Ambush if we are casting that a lot with SD + Blindside

[tidal gorge]

We have lots of examples of feedback being listened to during beta. It usually just isn't addressed until x.3

[marble hemlock]

idk bro

deeper that only does smth at 6cp

[subtle tundra]

wait mfd deeper vigor build

[marble hemlock]

is gonna be cancer as fuck

for assa

[half light]

I see

[fleet anchor]

I mean you can skip it potentially but it's probably still ok

[grizzled jay]

Yeah it seems very bad in that regard lol

[worn sorrel]

We actually even more st

[fleet anchor]

For Cheat I mean

I misclicked that one

[grizzled jay]

Skip DS and go SD + Cold Blood instead

[fleet anchor]

That's more what I was thinking

[balmy condor]

I was thinking this

[fluid crystal]

If you skip getting Feint and Cheat Death you can get more damage Omegalul

[subtle tundra]

i hate that you have to sacrifice dps for defensives...

[half light]

who needs to survive if you can kill your enemies faster

[subtle tundra]

just shitty game design for an mmo

[thorn fjord]

I guess its kind of cool that we can spec for each specific fight losing things we dont need to gain stuff

[balmy condor]

I hate how we have to go down

[wild lion]

are bleed effected by armor?

[balmy condor]

no

[half light]

so find weakness would only affect ambush/muti/env?

[bleak ledge]

garrote sems so out of place as a baseline talent when the other 5 in rows 1 + 2 are defensive

[fleet anchor]

Assassination honestly has almost no use for any of the bottom tier talents in the class tree which is funny

[vale oasis]

No dance for Improved Garrote ?

[fleet anchor]

Unless FW/Dance ends up being worth

Which is certainly plausible

[balmy condor]

envenom is magic damage

I go over this in the pins

[half light]

oh lol

[limber lion]

Any no Cheat gamers

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

Bless up

[half light]

forgot it's nature, my bad

[thorn fjord]

No tricks either

eee

[limber lion]

tricks very useful in raid yes

[marble hemlock]

assa tricks is whatever anyway

lol

[thorn fjord]

😛

[grizzled jay]

Very memey but something like this. On mobile and can't be assed to go too hard lmao

[limber lion]

I'm gonna die so many times, it's disgusting

[thorn fjord]

lolol

[indigo mulch]

I wonder if we will be bullied into taking MP for the dmg reduction poison :c

[balmy condor]

no shot you're taking 4% vers and random junk over tricks, step, energy cost reduction, mfd, and cheat

[thorn fjord]

might not need mfd

but yeah we want cheat

[limber lion]

Acrobatic Strikes

[grizzled jay]

I like the Ambush cp talent + SD

[thorn fjord]

gate keeping ass talent tree

[violet jackal]

assassination side is live

[sour wraith]

2% dr + damage, dont need cheat

[limber lion]

But yeah I think there's only one real way to build the class tree

and it's to ignore the middle branch entirely

[half light]

lmao

[limber lion]

and go down both sides

[onyx sandal]

hey guys, just checking in, did Sin basically get a raid wide defensive possibly?

[half light]

I didn't like echoing that much so that makes me happy

[onyx sandal]

3% damage reduction, master poisoner, shiv

[grizzled jay]

3% raid dr. 3.6% with non lethal talent. 6%/7.2% with shiv

[strange python]

If echoing reprimand is necessary - i'm just flat out quitting the game.

[half light]

I liked it as sub tho

[grizzled jay]

It won't be necessary

[half light]

but I prefer assa

[onyx sandal]

you have to go HEAVY into outlaw for echoing reprimand

[strange python]

it's just in the plain rogue tree no?

[balmy condor]

@limber lion

how bout that

[worn sorrel]

Scent of Blood: Rupture increases your Agility based on your character level. You may gain this benefit for each enemy suffering from your Rupture. Three Rank Talent, ranks increase Agility gained

This is so cool!

[balmy condor]

it's an old azerite trait

[royal lantern]

this is bfa!

[marble hemlock]

why does your assa tree work

and mine doesnt

hacks

[indigo mulch]

You have to reselect the assassination tree to make it update @marble hemlock

[worn sorrel]

What do you feel about this?

Indiscriminate Carnage: Your next Garrote and your next Rupture also apply to all enemies within 10 yards of the target, dealing reduced damage beyond 8 targets. 1.5 minute cooldown.

[strange python]

refresh

[half light]

just got updated

[strange python]

f5

[marble hemlock]

tried

doesnt work

[sour wraith]

you don't think dragon tempered will be useful to get DP + amp?

[indigo mulch]

F5 did not work.

[onyx sandal]

lethal dose + dragon tempered blades looks very strong, that means your poisons alone = 8% more damage

[marble hemlock]

guess i have to clear cache

[limber lion]

Probs taking the middle trait at the bottom on the Assa tree instead of CT or Mangle, but looks pretty dank

[willow saddle]

where are the interactive talent trees?

[half light]

select it from the rogue dropdown

click it then pick assa

[strange python]

what a mess this is gonna be to swap for different encounters

[fleet anchor]

Doubt VR is worth more than 2nd poison

[balmy condor]

whoops

[thorn fjord]

They better let us swap using tomes

[balmy condor]

that's an old screenshot

with a typo

[fleet anchor]

https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AACGNFVERBERWAhFzZAACKNVaoFRUJgQBQwQA

[marble hemlock]

Lemme swap os so i can actually stream

[fleet anchor]

This is my initial stab but who knows

[oak sky]

Wqit

Did we actually get new stuff

I just flipped through

[spice spire]

Yes

Vendetta gone tho

[oak sky]

Wtf

I saw thqt

[half light]

but weren't we going to be able to have some more slots saved?

[oak sky]

Deathmark

Wack

[marble hemlock]

Least survivable spec in the game now

Ez

[balmy condor]

I don't think there's a world where sprint cd + recup is worth over virulent poison

[half light]

wtf Deathmark

[oak sky]

Im gonna deep dive look over this stuff later

[fleet anchor]

Yeah probably right

[oak sky]

Im with friends rn

[fleet anchor]

Honestly though

The reason I initially went down there

[marble hemlock]

Friends lol

[fleet anchor]

Is I think the Vers talent might just be better than Seal Fate

[balmy condor]

I also think MP worth over gouge in raid as well

[fleet anchor]

4% Vers could potentially be better than Seal Fate for Assassination

[strange python]

we'd def take thistle tea over master poisoner?

[subtle tundra]

cringe cringe cringe

[tidal gorge]

Assassination without seal fate? That sounds so jank though 😐

[subtle tundra]

shouldnt be an option

[sour wraith]

i feel like you also drop master poisoner for cd

or gouge

[fleet anchor]

I did

After I edited 😄

[sour wraith]

ah i missed it

[half light]

where is virulent poison?

[fleet anchor]

But yeah

[fleet anchor]

Without Vers talent I think dropping Recup for Virulent makes sense

[strange python]

god we're always like 3-4 points short...what is this nonsense

[half light]

thanks!

[fleet anchor]

That is in "we have to sim it" territory

I think

[half light]

was looking at assa spec lol

[fleet anchor]

If you drop Seal Fate you actually gain 3 points because lol Leeching

[fleet anchor]

Cold Blood could honestly be shit for Assassination too tbh

[balmy condor]

get your dance out of here bozo

[fleet anchor]

Unless it snapshots into bleeds

If it's just for Envenom who cares

[sour wraith]

you get three finishers in a row though with this build

[fleet anchor]

With Deathmark not amping Envenom

[balmy condor]

required

[sour wraith]

finish -> cb+mut (5 cp with SF) -> finish --> mfd finish

[limber lion]

I think it's either this or removing Sepsis and EP, and moving those points into Vicious Venoms and Maim, Mangle

:---)

[meager granite]

Why is venomous wounds so deep in the tree ?? it is so mandatory for the spec it's not fun

[limber lion]

No one knows.

[balmy condor]

this seems reasonable too but deeper over 2/2 seal?

[fleet anchor]

Honestly also worth considering we may not need max points into Alacrity

Only changes the % atm

[muted ridge]

is Tea OGCD?

[fleet anchor]

Not the buff?

[balmy condor]

oh wtf

[limber lion]

Yeah I was contemplating them both, not sure honestly

[balmy condor]

yeah

then we just take 1

[limber lion]

oh

true

[burnt latch]

deathmark + dance + zoldyk + sepsis

[fleet anchor]

1 or 2

[indigo mulch]

2

[burnt latch]

is insane excecute dam

[fleet anchor]

2 might be needed for earlier gear levels

[worn panther]

This I was thinking as well, we have so stupid % of getting alacrity max stacks either way

[subtle tundra]

dont get seal, go 0 crit build, get cringe

[balmy condor]

something like this then

[indigo mulch]

14% i feel like 7% isent good enough

[sharp falcon]

it's your lucky day, all talent choices are optional

[strange python]

cold blood and mfd

[limber lion]

Not a fan of Gouge personally

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean you can move it

I just didn't really find a place for that point

[limber lion]

thistle tea

[sharp falcon]

easily dropped based on preference, you do you, boo

[fleet anchor]

Would need to math it out but I think something like this could potentially be an option too

[balmy condor]

nightstalker

I guess

[subtle tundra]

nightcringe

everything is cringe

[indigo mulch]

I think thistle tea can be great specially in opener D:

[subtle tundra]

i am cringe

[balmy condor]

not taking sealfate just feels so wrong

[subtle tundra]

this bad!!!!!!!!!

[fleet anchor]

Yeah I know but

Will CP even matter for this build?

It's all poisons and bleeds

[balmy condor]

yeah true

[strange python]

oo

[viral locust]

My brain hurts from all the possibilities in this talent tree.

[balmy condor]

aight well

[trail mica]

I feel like i am always 2-3 points short

[fleet anchor]

But this is sim territory for sure

[grizzled jay]

Any TTB enjoyers

[fleet anchor]

Like really hard to quantify some of this for edge case tradeoffs

[spice spire]

This is cursed

[fleet anchor]

But either way we're along the same lines mostly

[marble hemlock]

No max point alac is gonna feel atrocious

[fleet anchor]

14% per CP is more than enough tbh

[balmy condor]

it's 14% per cp

[sour wraith]

no way you don't get venomous wounds

[fleet anchor]

70% with 20s window

You'd have to be mega unluck

lol

[grizzled jay]

Seli will

[marble hemlock]

Have you seen my poison procs

[spice spire]

Dudes really out here skipping venomous wounds for checks notes tiny toxic blade

[viral locust]

that's okay, you can have 4 poisons.

[fleet anchor]

You want to take Amplifying Poison imo if you have Dragon-Tempered Blades. TtK isn't very good

[viral locust]

one will proc, probably.

[grizzled jay]

Watch Sims soon 🙂

[viral locust]

[steel ridge]

Is the tiny toxic blade talent for real?

[tidal gorge]

We could spec into all the cooldown skills and drop VW to go for the world record lowest APM spec

[half light]

if you take Dragon Tempered blades, what other posion you would get?

[fleet anchor]

Honestly if the TTB talent was reachable due to VW being moved

It would be really good

[half light]

wound?

[grizzled jay]

Instant

[half light]

ohh

[grizzled jay]

We'd have Deadly and Instant

[half light]

oh damn

[fleet anchor]

Nothing wrong with TTB at all

[muted ridge]

Subterfuge Shadow Dance Assa M+ God

[violet jackal]

Anthorpic and numbing

[limber lion]

Absolutely! The Rogue tree looks looks fine, but the spec tree having the raid buff being tied to poison (and to Shiv, which is a major dps cooldown for Sin) and Venomous Wounds being so far down right are weird choices. VW should be baseline or much easier to access

[fleet anchor]

Getting TTB+Zold would be ideal

[limber lion]

And Shiv should not affect the raid buff

at all

[fleet anchor]

But VW position makes that impossible

[balmy condor]

aight trying to get a pin out just as a general guideline for now @fleet anchor @marble hemlock @limber lion, do we generally agree on this as a base

[limber lion]

[fleet anchor]

Yeah I think so

That's probably the sensible default

[fallen plover]

man it feels bad that cheat death is gonna be a dps loss now

[marble hemlock]

Assuming mp still doesn't work on numbing, that point is useless

[hollow oasis]

so sad we lost flag 😦

[grizzled jay]

If we yell enough Cheat can be moved

[sharp falcon]

VW likely to move up to a much more accessible location, can agree there. If you want to pretend Stealth-Poison-Guarantee is actually VW instead, that would be a reasonable thing to... pretend

[balmy condor]

it works on atrophic

[muted ridge]

we need to spam forums to make it baseline

[marble hemlock]

That's still only 3%

[half light]

I mean it makes sense for an assassin to know how to cheat death

[marble hemlock]

Or do you think it goes into decimal

[fleet anchor]

I mean it doesn't need to be baseline but like

[half light]

so we have fantasy on our side

[balmy condor]

decimal for sure

[fleet anchor]

it could be where Recup is atm or something

[balmy condor]

what do you suggest that point goes into instead

[fleet anchor]

Should be central

[trail mica]

I'm mega sad we don't get echoing blades... these fan of knives talents all sound bad tbh

[limber lion]

That sounds amazing and would make so much more sense. If we were to pretend, that is.

[marble hemlock]

Tight spender over ns?

[sinful cradle]

https://i.imgur.com/TzWPUbk.png This for sure

[fleet anchor]

I assume Tight Spender will be quite a bit better for us than NS

[half light]

another point on alacrity probably? tbh I'm not sure, nor do I think I'm knowledgeable enough to make a good choice there

[balmy condor]

that was my assumption as well

20% NS seems not great

[fleet anchor]

Unless we end up with a lot of energy from somewhere

[limber lion]

Yeah I'd imagine so as well

[toxic locust]

so what do sin mains think of the tree

[subtle tundra]

ff

[balmy condor]

I think we generally agreed alacrity 2 point would be fine

[subtle tundra]

go next expac

[strange python]

i like

[sour wraith]

probably something like this for m+ yea?

[fleet anchor]

I think if we're taking Atrophic having MP is kinda ok as a default but it can clearly by flexed

[subtle tundra]

i like the aoe dot spreader but 1.5m is cringe for m+ pulls

[balmy condor]

aight @limber lion @marble hemlock @fleet anchor whip out the raid sin trees I'm on

[fleet anchor]

Flex CT for Doomblade for pure ST if you are minmaxing I guess.

[marble hemlock]

I'm streaming rn, trying to keep up with disc

[fallen plover]

i think you'd probably want SD for m+ so you can get much higher uptime on empowered garottes

[marble hemlock]

Looks good though

[regal tundra]

Amplifying vs TtK and taking Instant poison as 2nd letal ?

[sour wraith]

yea i was considering that too

[balmy condor]

yeah I assume that as well but CT seems good to just have in general

[fleet anchor]

Agree

[sharp falcon]

Yeah I honestly regret its placement at this point. In hindsight, anything below row 4 is trolling. Fortunately, there's still time to change things =p

[hot chasm]

I'm to tired to make sense of the talent trees right now lol

[limber lion]

Maybe one point in Doomblade instead of the Muti damage one?

@balmy condor

[limber lion]

bless

[balmy condor]

which one is that sorry

[limber lion]

Vicious Venoms

row 6

[balmy condor]

need 2 to get to doomblade

[fleet anchor]

Yeah thanks for the info Realz, appreciate it. That's definitely a lot more flexible

[balmy condor]

oh

that's not doomblade

[limber lion]

Yeah one out of Vicious Venoms to get Doomblade on the right

which is just an overall damage increase via Lethal Dose

[fleet anchor]

Well if we pretend the talents swap like Realz mentioned

Don't we just drop VW in the tree as it is for Doomblade?

[limber lion]

True

[balmy condor]

yep

[limber lion]

That sounds great to me

[fleet anchor]

Think that's a fairly solid base build

However VW not being deep on the right does mean left tree is an option too tbh

Lethal Dose does seem pretty strong though

[white orchid]

Echoing reprimand yuck lol

[violet jackal]

what are the odds premium raid bot going to be mandatory to be able to sim all your talent options

[trail mica]

i like the idea of vigor+stratagem but im not sure it will be played...

[white orchid]

No echoing blades sad lol

[fleet anchor]

Deeper likely gets ignored for Assassination without the 5% finisher damage

We don't really care too much how many CP we spend with

And our generation is low

[chilly marsh]

M+ maybe

[trail mica]

Ye, if it is only a 6th combo point bonus, guess it's dumpster time

[limber lion]

Yeah, I didn't realize DS didn't have the 5% earlier. Screw that :P

Probs still good for Sub/Outlaw, but we don't really care for it

[white orchid]

Sounds like we just got a bunch of stuff from shadowlands

[hollow oasis]

so, why we have fan of knifes and then a single target talent? i hate that they doing that

[winged ravine]

okay i'm mad excited to main swap to rogue in DF, idc how bad they are, sin and outlaw look like they have some crazy good ||fun|| potential

[white orchid]

Vendetta sounds whack too lol

[hot chasm]

Hopefully with some good feedback they can move some of these around

[trail mica]

outlaw has some really cool things going for it, can't wait for the talent calc

but im more excited about sin

[strange python]

Raid be like?

[balmy condor]

@fleet anchor I can't get a m+ tree working

zold is so far away

feels really weird having all the fan of knives/CT stuff on the left and then having to go through 3 points of mutilate talents to get to zold

[trail mica]

this is my +15 build

[winged ravine]

I mained feral as a one trick for like 12 years and my friends pestered me in to trying sin in SL because they said feral was just a poorly made copy of sin now and i have not had this much fun playing wow since legion. these talent trees have me even more stoked

outlaw is so fun too, wish i'd have tried it earlier

[kindred rapids]

no time like the present

[trail mica]

flying daggers seems like a waste

[balmy condor]

okay hear me out

[spice spire]

Bless up Nate

[indigo mulch]

🙏

[viral locust]

Does Amp Poison really seem that poggers?

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/Ja8Jz/76612d338d.jpg

[indigo mulch]

But you can't have deadly and amp poison at the same time right? :c

[balmy condor]

need to take a point to get down to dragon tempered

[balmy condor]

dragon tempered lets you

[viral locust]

Yeah I figure as much.

[marble hemlock]

thoughts whispyr? :>

youd still mut in dance

[balmy condor]

keep yourself safe

[marble hemlock]

for NS damage

[indigo mulch]

OH that's pretty poggers

[marble hemlock]

with doomblade/vicious venoms and maim mangle multipliers

free ambushes giving 4cp

[balmy condor]

seli thoughts for this for m+

[marble hemlock]

think youd go ttk over amplifying

[balmy condor]

but then you lose a lethal poison yeah?

[oak sky]

But why is snd still in the game

[balmy condor]

for lethal dose

[marble hemlock]

im honestly interested in your thoughts tho

on the non-assa assa

[balmy condor]

let me hop in your stream for it

I know you're probably talking about it

[fallen plover]

i dont think we would take vigour anymore with VW and VR that sounds like way too much energy

[indigo mulch]

Can never have to much!

[chilly marsh]

would be nice to watch a stream discussing possible builds

[indigo mulch]

Specially early exp

[balmy condor]

seli is live atm

but we will have a podcast on this

[thorn fjord]

Max is going through rogue builds right now too

It kinda sus

[balmy condor]

Max doesn't know shit about rogues

don't listen to him

please for the love of god

[tidal gorge]

lol

[drowsy crescent]

Do ya'll think we can get away with only one point in Cut to the Chase?

[thorn fjord]

lol that’s why I said sus

[balmy condor]

probably not

[thorn fjord]

He plays a rogue too 🤣🤣

[drowsy crescent]

feelsbadman

[balmy condor]

plays is a strong term

[chilly marsh]

looks like mine :p

[mossy sable]

Whispyr I got one question

Will any of Sin make it faster

Cause I may consider playing it if it did

Slow spec make me sad...

[tidal gorge]

Sin not slow. Sin methodical. Like serial killer.

[mossy sable]

Me barbarian

Me smash button

[balmy condor]

kinda? no clue if it'll be good though

[mossy sable]

I mean if it doesn't make me thousands of DPS lower

Doesn't bother me much

[fallen plover]

well we have a ton of energy regen options now

so i assume you'll be able to spam muti/envenom quite a bit now

[hollow oasis]

give me corruptions idc

[gusty breach]

is anima charge thingy really not viable?

ik it was a pvp for sub thing

[bleak sky]

we know nothing yet

[thorn fjord]

We’re all just dreaming the dream right now

[gusty breach]

chances are, i am getting acrobatic strike

that is such a quality of life

[quaint sequoia]

why aint shrouded suffocation back, makes me sad

the only talent I wanted

[white orchid]

Same no SS

Or echoing blades

[outer cairn]

I wondered about the Death Mark and then Exsang. Clearly probably still a troll pick, but double the bleeds and then speeding them up or is Exsang a passive thing now based on that

[indigo mulch]

I don't know if amp poison is worth it though

It dosent feel like its worth it D:

[toxic locust]

cold blood amp poison let's go

[white orchid]

Death mark sounds cringe lol

[toxic locust]

envenom oneshots??

[limber lion]

Massive Cold Blood Amp Poison Envenoms

[indigo mulch]

Butttttt

Is it actually worth it :c

[limber lion]

Yes

[toxic locust]

it'll probably work in pvp if anything

[indigo mulch]

PvP sure! but pve!

[limber lion]

Yes

[indigo mulch]

Fine.

[onyx sandal]

So, it looks like Sin will now have Shiv or Exang for their major cd, and not vendetta. Is it bad....this makes me actually interested in Sin?

[toxic locust]

more stealth incentive for a dance sin build sounds great

sublaw looks to be an actual thing rn

[balmy condor]

deathmark replaces envenom

[bleak sky]

it's vendetta

[toxic locust]

deathmark replaced vendetta

[onyx sandal]

my issue with vendetta is it was a "do more damage" to a target, and, well, that's it.

Deathmark sounds like a good replacement imo

[quaint sequoia]

"Row 4 - poison katar must take m+" why is it must take in m+?

[balmy condor]

because you will not do damage otherwise

[hollow oasis]

15% more damage on FoK and 5% crit changce

[quaint sequoia]

misread it 😅

thought it was just for throw shit

[blazing totem]

am I stupid and blind or does assa have no Vendetta anywhere?

[hollow oasis]

no more vendetta

deathmark now

[blazing totem]

I liked the icon so much tho

[quaint sequoia]

srsly if they make ShD best for sin I will have to change class

[hollow oasis]

better yet: macro every ability to vendeta icon

[blazing totem]

this is the way

[quaint sequoia]

also hate how MfD seems mandatory in rogue tree

[onyx sandal]

Odd they changed the big cd, instead of just changing what vendetta does

[grizzled jay]

We did it

[grizzled jay]

No TTB no thanks

[blazing totem]

I bet it's cuz of the name, Blizzard is going all-in on censoring anything even remotely controversial

[kindred rapids]

wut

[thorn fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-gif-23918002

[tidal gorge]

More likely they just didn't think the name thematically fit with the new behavior

[toxic locust]

this

[blazing totem]

I know it is stupid, but it is nothing new, there already has been changes in games that had the term "vendetta"

[onyx sandal]

probably

[blazing totem]

apparently italian word referncing mafia is bad in today's world

[toxic locust]

i just think it's funny that we have

marked for death and deathmark

as separate spells

[onyx sandal]

tbh I hated Sin as a spec because vendetta was a whole cd of "do nothing but wait". I know you paired it with other cds, but, so much downtime.

I feel the new talent tree gives great options to circumvent this

deathmark + exang looks juicy

[tidal gorge]

Also doesn't stick us to the target for the entire duration, yeah? If so that's a plus

[grizzled jay]

I'm really digging the tree with VW being higher up

[onyx sandal]

I mean, it still somewhat does, but less so. you can put the dots on the target, and leave them

Does doomblade atm work with exang as a bleed? Also, I wonder if things like Internal Bleeding and/or doomblade will work with Lethal Dose

[balmy condor]

doomblade loses no damage due to pandemic

[teal kettle]

the sin m+ dream is rising

[balmy condor]

so while it might work for exsang (currently doesn't)

it wouldn't do much

[onyx sandal]

right but does it tick faster with exang? Just generally curious

[teal kettle]

I wanted 3 combo pt garrotes from stealth but that carnage talent will have to do

[balmy condor]

right now it does not

but with 4 piece it does

[onyx sandal]

I wonder if Deathmark will work with doomblade

[quaint sequoia]

I feel real bad about this talent tree tbh

[toxic locust]

what??

explain i'd love to know why

unless it's the "they're putting our baseline stuff in the trees!" thing

[bleak sun]

wow just woke up first thing i read is the final talent Sin tree Indiscriminate carnage-> Pog

[onyx sandal]

I feel Sin's tree looks pretty great

[toxic locust]

outlaw looks amazing too

[onyx sandal]

did you see Dragon Tempered Blades + Lethal dose + deathmark?

sin giving a raid wide defensive potentially is crazy

[quaint sequoia]

my main problem is that shrouded suffocation isn't back

[toxic locust]

yeah...

[fallen plover]

outlaw has a few duplicate talents which is weird

[toxic locust]

there's some other really cool stuff tho

[toxic locust]

deeper strat is confirmed to stack twice

so you can get 7 CP if you pick it twice

[quaint sequoia]

also don't like how you have to pick MfD for cheatdeath

[grizzled jay]

We have Imp. Garrote, SD, or Subt so it basically is lol

[quaint sequoia]

still aint 3cp right?

[grizzled jay]

CP isn't there correct.

[hollow oasis]

3 cp was too strong tbh

[quaint sequoia]

that's the main thing I miss from shrouded suffocation

it felt so good rotation wise

[chilly marsh]

thats a 8s stun in pvp lol i think those double skills in class and spec tree are only place holders lol too busted

[subtle tundra]

give... garrote... 2cp... from stealth...

😬

not hard

[toxic locust]

are there any other double skills?

there's step and dance for sub to get a second charge, deeper strat in outlaw for 7 CP...

[velvet ridge]

I don't think it's a placeholder

[hollow oasis]

second charge on shadowstep for assa too

[velvet ridge]

They are worded in a way to stack

[toxic locust]

yeah they're definitely not placeholders

[grizzled jay]

Deep isn't that good without the static 5% boost for Sin

[jade minnow]

damn... theory crafters and simmers got no life now

[bleak sky]

zero point in simming stuff now

[chilly marsh]

theres acrobatic strikes and long arm too for 6y melee

[jade minnow]

I meant people who make sims work 😄 blizz made this to prevent sims

[limber lion]

Nah

We'll be cruising in no time

[chilly marsh]

its soo lazy to make you pick same talent in both trees because path

[limber lion]

You don't need to do that though

[quaint sequoia]

I really don't get how FoK is not baseline

[toxic locust]

baselines don't exist anymore

the talent tree is your spec

just think about it as learning FoK at level 14 or whatever

except instead of straight up getting FoK you get a talent point

[cursive summit]

https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AACTPBRVBVQVEgJFDYCBAACKNVaIEQVBgFBQ8UA

I kinda like the look of this build, mainly going all in on bleeds/poisons

[limber lion]

We don't really need/want Shadow Dance/Exploit Weakness.

[twilit lagoon]

I was looking at something similar to that, but giving up feint feels rough.

[chilly marsh]

for raid you will need athopic

[tidal gorge]

Would 2x CTTC be necessary? I haven't really mathed out whether 1 point is enough to sustain

[cursive summit]

I took it because of Stealth Poisons

[vapid lantern]

Looks like they’ve given us some m+ talents that could make us more viable there?

[balmy condor]

Sample Trees

PLEASE STOP SUGGESTING I CHANGE X TALENT FOR Y TALENT CAUSE IT MIGHT BE 20 DPS BETTER YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT I WILL NOT RESPOND
These are all obviously speculative, but we (theorycrafters/prominent assassination figures) generally agree this looks to be a good general starting point before tuning. There are some quirks such as taking some defensives instead of damage, or dropping things like CT for example for single target raid, which are choices that would need to be made on the fly.

Some notes for the raid tree:
This stuff is all kind of normal regular stuff. Two point in alacrity should be enough. You might want to drop vigor, or gouge, etc, but it's a good general idea of how sin will play. Twist the knife/Amp Poison is a choice that will need to be simmed as well

Some notes for the m+ tree:
There's some slightly questionable stuff to take here. Dance/Find Weakness really depends on how things work, but in theory can be used as a longer vanish to apply a lot of garrotes when carnage is on cooldown. M+ is a lot less cut and dry. If you take the dance away, you would be left with 3 points that don't really fit anywhere. The best option we see here is a versatility bonus of 4%, or taking subterfuge instead. It remains to be seen how that shakes out.

Be aware that we are not yet even in alpha, things can and will change. I hope you're all excited for dragonflight!

[balmy condor]

all the pins

lots to read

[cursive summit]

Almost exactly what I took haha

with a few slight changes

[quaint sequoia]

whats the point of making the tree bigger if its mostly baseline fillers, dont get that

[limber lion]

So many fresh pins

let's goo

[cursive summit]

for m+

[balmy condor]

@limber lion come shower time babe

[quaint sequoia]

MfD on both builds, feelsbadman

[gritty quiver]

Which missives for assa. leggo?

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

haste/crit

[gritty quiver]

ty

[rigid tartan]

yo guys, am i missing something or is Vendetta missing from the talent trees. Is it not in baseline?

[balmy condor]

oh

[rigid tartan]

for dragonflight

[balmy condor]

one more pin I guess

[hexed root]

max/jpc going over talent tree now on max's stream

their raid tree is a bit different it looks like

[balmy condor]

DEATHMARK REPLACES VENDETTA

It has been confirmed that it adds instances of the dot. 2 garrotes and 2 ruptures and 2 poisons on the target at the same time. This will interact will all the passive effects on the tree as well.

[subtle tundra]

whats a deathmark

[rigid tartan]

thank you Whispyr

[hexed root]

maybe they're talking m+

[toxic locust]

cooler vendetta

not to be confused with marked for death

[subtle tundra]

calling cap

[balmy condor]

not to throw shade but max does not know hot to play rogue and jpc hasn't really had premiere takes on theorycrafting

[subtle tundra]

nothings cooler than vendetta

[zenith cairn]

why gouge > 3 alacrity point?

[pallid bough]

JPC said that MA works with Shadow Dance... oh boy

[balmy condor]

alacrity point only increases chance per combo point and not the actual haste

[toxic locust]

double bleeds and poisons

[hexed root]

he's more listening to JPC. It's always interesting how people can like... play better than the people that figure out the thing

[balmy condor]

[pallid bough]

Yep

I was referring to that Whisypr lmao

[zenith cairn]

oh i should learn reading

[left relic]

He mentioned talking to you as well but wanted to give more people a few days to play around with the tree

[pallid bough]

also

[balmy condor]

good good

[pallid bough]

he mentioned that double DS is good because its giving you a juiced 8 second kidney... @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

I'm sliding in those dm's don't worry

[rigid tartan]

its like with musicians. some have the coolest ideas and new sounds and stuff... but the guys that can actually play and perform the most exciting and best actually get the whole hype train in mainstream

[balmy condor]

I mean it's any sport

[blazing totem]

why don't we like exsanguinate? isn't it basically the current sin tier set?

[toxic locust]

realz said kidney's gonna get capped to 5 CP right?

[pallid bough]

it is

[balmy condor]

do you think tom brady doesn't have coaches?

[pallid bough]

its always been capped

[toxic locust]

oh, nice

[hexed root]

also whispyr

Exsang was 100% used in 9.0

[balmy condor]

tom brady has a whole team of people behind him, but they aren't better quarterbacks than tom brady

[hexed root]

wowhead wrong

jeez

[pallid bough]

only thing that used to amplify Kidney shot was WoD Combat with Revealing Strike.

[burnt latch]

Who tf is tom brady

[balmy condor]

according to what

[hollow river]

You can 6 cp kidney

[burnt latch]

[hollow river]

?

[pallid bough]

rn?

[hexed root]

a ton of people were using exsang in CN

maybe not whole tier

[hollow river]

Yes

[pallid bough]

pretty sure you cant

[hexed root]

but at first. 🙂

[hollow river]

Yes you can

[pallid bough]

I have definitely tested it out and it didnt

[balmy condor]

you're fried as hell

[pallid bough]

maybe I was fried

[hexed root]

???

[pallid bough]

as fuck

but I remember it not working

[cursive summit]

I miss 400% exsang

[limber lion]

NO ONE used Exsanguinate in Castle Nathria

[hexed root]

I 100% remember exsang being the meta at one point in shadowlands.

[subtle tundra]

LOL

[limber lion]

That's super incorrect

[blazing totem]

I mean I understand not taking exang when it was competing with other talents but rn it seems like a free pick without deviatiing from the tree? why not take it on ST?

[limber lion]

You're super duper fried my guy

[hexed root]

was it meta in Nyalotha?

[limber lion]

Yes

[strange python]

I dont remember a SINGLE person using or recommending Exang for CN

[tidal gorge]

It was meta in nya'lotha yeah

[balmy condor]

it was nyalotha

[hexed root]

Okay maybe I'm getting them mixed up

[balmy condor]

exsanguinate has seen 0 play in shadowlands

[hollow river]

[strange python]

Yes, because stupid amounts of haste (and shrouded)

[frosty cedar]

no shot or full shot

[balmy condor]

(because of shrouded not the haste)

[tidal gorge]

That was also when ST CT degeneracy started