assassination

[echo geyser]

jigachad

[bleak sky]

[gusty mirage]

ye but you're cuter

so

who really wins

[bleak sky]

maybe they're sbsing their friends on amogus phase

[echo geyser]

23 casts it says

but way more dmg

than my 28

must be not sending in gemstones storm phase

[ebon notch]

press shiv

and slam

sbs

into shiv

huge dam

[echo geyser]

oh wow it does like 40k if u crit in storm phase

thats why

[gusty mirage]

yeah

it cranks during storm with shiv

[echo geyser]

kk next time

[fleet anchor]

Are you casting on adds at all? Probably some of it will depend on if you cleave the add after it’s gripped during the start of damage phase

[echo geyser]

(sunday)

[fleet anchor]

Compared to hitting both bosses

[echo geyser]

yeah i tried to always do 1 sbs for dot and cp

on ghosty

[fleet anchor]

So like at the start of the phase even if you are targeting the boss you still may be hitting the add with your cleave

[echo geyser]

thats insta when it spawns (if i remember)

[gusty mirage]

also you wanna hit the add

for the free reset

[fleet anchor]

Once yeah

But not during swarm

[gusty mirage]

if it cleaves fine

yeah I was spiking it before it got gripped in

[echo geyser]

now that u say it

[gusty mirage]

just to make sure lol

[fleet anchor]

Sure but if you cleave the add instead of 2x boss you are just losing damage

[echo geyser]

im pretty sure i been dotting ghost or doing some globals when its storm phase

that gotta be horrible

[fleet anchor]

Yeah

[echo geyser]

ok next time 24k

[fleet anchor]

Only thing I did to the add was garrote it after the grip first right before

[gusty mirage]

nah nah nah you want 100% of your attention on the bosses

[fleet anchor]

Then garrote bosses

[gusty mirage]

I'd pre-spike it before it got gripped in

then vanish gar x3

then just focus bosses

[fleet anchor]

You’ll have energy saturation from 2T bleeds anyway so not really worth

Add will die fast anyway

[echo geyser]

also noticed i did 5 foks

he did 0

[fleet anchor]

Technically when 3T it’d be really borderline even with the damage amp

Doubt that’d make any notable difference

Gonna be some RNG too for Crit rates during Swarm and such

[echo geyser]

yeah crits must be huge in storm phase

its funny how sbs almost hits like an envenom

i had no clue it would do that dmg

[fleet anchor]

Like here's an unfortunate example of what I was talking about

Where it cleaved the Shadow instead of Mal'Ganis during Shiv at the start of Swarm

[echo geyser]

oh right

totally forgot about deathspike

[fleet anchor]

And crit too.. lost 20k damage there RIP 😦

[echo geyser]

lmfao

u actually need to hit 2x boss for big amp

[fleet anchor]

Yeah I dunno if there's a good way to ensure that other than waiting until the add is dead to dump SBS

But might run out of Shiv that way

Would depend on where your DK grips the add

[true pelican]

how does deathspike targeting work?

[fleet anchor]

If they gripped to the side or something instead of the middle you could probably force it on both bosses

Well it's basically by GUID order within the cleave range

But the cleave range is very small

In theory if the add was on one side and you targeted the far boss I think you'd get both bosses but it depends

[echo geyser]

man if u crit both bosses

its literally 80k per sbs

wtf

if u got 2-3 stacks and gemstones

its over

[fleet anchor]

Unfortunately because it's GUID order

If everything is within cleave range

You're just out of luck basically

So there could be some argument for delaying Shiv slightly and waiting on SBS dumping until the add was dead

(Or just run Shadowdust and get full Shiv coverage and delay SBS without any real problem)

I napkin'd out the Shadowdust stuff and it looked pretty interesting tbh. Probably close to Zold anyway

[true pelican]

whispyr had sims

[fleet anchor]

I mean kinda hard to really sim it

I had to weight things based on the percentage of damage within the vulnerability phases

[true pelican]

#assassination message

[echo geyser]

this is totally but wouldnt crit be more valuable on a fight like lord with that amp phase

just 5am thoughts

[fleet anchor]

I mean log analysis basically shows them as nearly identical anyhow so that's not really a surprising result

I roughed it out the other day

Looking at what percentage of the total fight damage is done during the damage phases. And multiply it by the additional modifier you'd get from the additional buff uptime. Since Vanish syncs with every vulnerability phase, this is pretty straightforward to do. Given the nature of the fight and the 2pc bonus, I think you could think of this as a a stronger Deathly Shadows right? Basically getting 9s of 40% damage boost to 80% of your damage. So 0.5 * 0.45 (9/20) * 0.4 * 0.8 = ~7% legendary. This is a bit better than the napkin math for Deathly which ends up being like ~5% last I checked with a similar approach.

Similarly, given the timings, seems like about 35-40% of the damage is done sub-30% for Zold for people with the legendary, which affects about ~70% of our damage in 2T. So Zold seems to end up around 8% or so? Seems like Shadowdust would be pretty close to Zold just from the 2pc but there could be other benefits for SBS charges and whatnot I guess.

Basically both will end up being 7-8% and the value of Zold will depend somewhat on if your raid pushes sub-30% before the 3rd Swarm

[echo geyser]

surely it has to be worth to always go in with 3 stacks of sbs in that phase right

idk if u will overcap a lot

[fleet anchor]

You should bank as many stacks as you can yeah

[echo geyser]

all this sin talk got me wanting to play sin now

[true pelican]

3? we are in 9.2

[echo geyser]

its 5am sorry

dude thats crazy

gemstones 5 stacks of sbs

hit all on 2x boss storm phase

5x 40k

its over

wait

no

5x 80k

[fleet anchor]

I think the slight advantage of running Dust for this type of optimization would be that you could easily delay SBS dumping until after the add was dead since you will ensure full Shiv coverage with the double Shiv

Or you can just bribe your tank to grip the add to the side

[true pelican]

you mean shadowdust right

[fleet anchor]

Yeah sorry

[true pelican]

i'll try shadowdust out, my guild barely gets the bosses to 30% during 3rd swarm anyway

[fleet anchor]

Like if we wanted to make the APL hyper optimized for vulnerability events would need to add SBS logic too and some other stuff

APL will dump too many charges on the opener Gemstone probably

[echo geyser]

yeah i bet

[fleet anchor]

Generally haven't really been a fan of trying to actually put this in though since it's only one fight and it's potentially a lot of work to maintain the conditions. But I might bake it into some variable checks at some point

[echo geyser]

its also mostly just for fun

cause dmg on lords is a joke to kill boss u just need raid to dodge the green p much

[fleet anchor]

Yeah basically

I mean also the SBS Carver's cheese seems hilarious

[echo geyser]

u mean on allies?

[fleet anchor]

yeah

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gDHcL1NQrGT2mkKB#fight=11&type=auras&ability=351414&source=1

Talked about it a bit earlier

[echo geyser]

oh i see, thats a lot of mastery

[fleet anchor]

yeah lol

I would assume it beats giving up a couple SBS charges

Since you get it the whole fight

[gusty mirage]

mythic rygelon is actually fun

[gusty mirage]

what a relief

[fleet anchor]

Yeah adding vulnerability pooling for SBS is definitely worth doing

That's a little more juicy

lol

Also does look like Kevin sync is probably better than Heirmir when SBS pooling

[rotund oak]

is this the outlaw channel

[ebon notch]

Wait shadowdust good?

[fleet anchor]

In this case it would kinda make sense because not only do you get the extra Shiv coverage (which kinda makes it neutral)

You get the extra SBS charge which will probably make sure you have 100% Kevin uptime during every vuln phase with pooling

[true pelican]

yeah but then you can't dot your whole raid for massive mastery

[fleet anchor]

Yeah I mean I think that strategy is probably very strong too but I can't sim that one 🤣

Kevin seems fairly neutral with Zold anyway. Potentially marginally better but pretty close to Bonesmith which was kinda the consensus

I'd imagine Carver's Eye on the add alone probably makes it really close to even on Zold

Wish I had had more time to look at this before we killed it but I wasn't even expecting to be in comp and just got subbed in last minute due to a Warlock missing 🤣

Not that 1% or 1.5% damage from a Rogue is gonna matter on that fight but would be fun

[rotund oak]

so,dust for lords it is..

[fleet anchor]

The tricky bit with it is that you'd need to sequence things a bit differently potentially

[rotund oak]

like holding ur VD for swarm?

[fleet anchor]

Like for example I was triple Garroting after the grip (with the add first) right before Swarm which you couldn't do with Dust

You'd need to get Shiv off first which means delaying the Vanish a little bit

Not a major change but slight

[rotund oak]

when is 1st swarm coming?

[fleet anchor]

50s or so I believe?

[rotund oak]

yeah thats no good

we cant VD

[fleet anchor]

Dust not Dusk 😄

[rotund oak]

and have it for swarm

yeah dust as invigorating shadowdust

[fleet anchor]

The goal of using Dust is simply getting an extra Shiv in Swarm

[rotund oak]

oh

[fleet anchor]

So you get nearly full coverage of the vuln phase with 2pc

[rotund oak]

yeah makes sense

u are insane

[fleet anchor]

This came from Cev I think originally but I was looking into it as a curiosity last few days

Does seem to generally check out at least with Kevin

[rotund oak]

thats why u said pressing it before pressing VD

which mens whispyr was wrong?

[fleet anchor]

I mean he showed it was about neutral

For a normal setup

Which is still accurate

But I added in SBS pooling to the APL and checking with the extra Kevin's Wrath uptime

[solid chasm]

i want to press CT so bad during amogus

[fleet anchor]

From both pooling+extra SBS charge from Dust

[rotund oak]

@burnt latch the moment u wanted

[fleet anchor]

That seems to tip it over

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9eh6hwpg4zoktVnWmZNqRo

Modified version of @balmy condor's sims with the SBS changes and also with Kevin variants

Also possible you could get better results than this in-game because it is possible to get Kevin's Wrath on multiple targets if you target swap, which we don't support fully in SimC atm

[fleet anchor]

Could in theory get Kevin's Wrath up on both bosses

[slow marsh]

new tech and still not even 30k

[fleet anchor]

But the timing of the refresh depends on the cast time of the pet

and is kinda annoying

[balmy condor]

how hard does it pool

[fleet anchor]

it's just in the dump line

actions.direct+="/serrated_bone_spike,if=set_bonus.tier28_2pc&variable.use_filler&master_assassin_remains<0.8&debuff.grudge_match.up&!buff.lead_by_example.up&raid_event.adds.in>5&(raid_event.vulnerable.in>(cooldown.serrated_bone_spike.max_charges-charges_fractional)*25|target.debuff.vulnerable.react=1)"

Basically will just always pool unless it'd waste a charge before the next event

Might be able to make this slightly better still but gets it mostly right

Probably not gonna put this in the real APL (although maybe? idk.. it's not too bad) so not too concerned about hyper specifics 😄

[balmy condor]

yeh

[fleet anchor]

Found another 0.2% by changing the expression slightly but yeah

Just a proof of concept anyway

All this work to go from barely beating a green parse SV hunter to maybe barely beating a blue parse SV hunter pog

🤣

[balmy condor]

on a boss that's like 70 pulls

[bleak sky]

300 dps diff for a leggo I don't have unlocked

[fleet anchor]

How will you play Outlaw if you don't have it?

🤔

[bleak sky]

outlaw gaming right there

[fleet anchor]

I already crafted this bad boy at the start of the tier before the doom and gloom set in!

Had to at least try the Outlaw spam build once haha

[bleak sky]

fair fair

seems too spammy for my fragile fingers

[blazing pumice]

do you keep using subter-garrote if it caps cp?

as in between pulls

[true pelican]

@fleet anchor you said that an advantage of shadowdust is that you will have shiv up for sbs dumping, wouldn't that only buff envenom which barely gets cast during swarm? or am i missing something

[fleet anchor]

2pc bonus

[true pelican]

wait does sbs instant dmg get buffed by 2pc?

[fleet anchor]

Yes

[true pelican]

huh i see, ty

[fleet anchor]

Like ideally you dump right away but the positioning of the add could make it difficult

Not a huge deal but if we're talking about optimizing it is relevant

[blazing pumice]

does that apply to zoldyck?

[charred finch]

i should use ambush in opening when i'm stealth and in the 3 seconds of subterfuge over mutile? or still prefer mutilate?

[oak sky]

yeah ambush

[charred finch]

thanks

[random fossil]

i thought ambush was dead?

[oak sky]

Na

[regal cloud]

Nobody have try blood fang leggo?

Is it terrible or really terrible?

[spice spire]

Really terrible

I did on PTR because it’s a whatever premise

And it was not good still

[regal cloud]

Was thinking "yo is this gushing wound?"

But look like it's a Grey item gushing

[uneven summit]

the pins still says open with mutilate, am i missing something

[spice spire]

You don’t use ambush as venthyr

But if you’re running subterfuge as the question asked

You’d ambush there

Because venthyr wants the extra CP for flag, so you’d be using MA anyway

[uneven summit]

yeah but subterfuge is NF/Necrolord, and at least for necrolord pins still say mut?

[spice spire]

There’s only one instance of NL in pins - and it’s aoe and it opens with garrote sbs garrote (this is for 2t) and mutis out of stealth later

But ambush is stealth only

[trail orchid]

Hey everybody, quick WA / Snapshot question. Do you use special icons to track, how much snapshot you got on a bleed or do you just track that by memory?

[viscid spear]

Ceverion has a WA for the 4pc bleeds

[trail orchid]

for instance, rupture icon, with small red square top right indicates that it was casted with vendetta

[tight ginkgo]

Ceverion made one you can find here to track that https://wago.io/rk2kEs76d

[trail orchid]

nice, thank you. ill try it out

what buffs are snapshotting? also agility potion for example? vendetta for sure, but what about other buffs to look out for

[violet jackal]

haste - power infusion, bloodlust

[trail orchid]

so flagellation for example

[violet jackal]

that too

[trail orchid]

agility buffs from pot?

[violet jackal]

mmmm fuu would have to confirm thatone

[trail orchid]

is posting links allowed?

[spice spire]

Yes

[trail orchid]

alacrity, euhporia should be buffing my bleeds too right

[spice spire]

Yes

[trail orchid]

thanks alot ❤️

[wild cargo]

Is there any particular way to use the Scars trinket? Just press it on cd constantly, or line the last rune with cds or stay at 4 or something?

[violet jackal]

use on CD and ask for 5 power infusions, @sand sigil discovered some tech and set a rank 1 he would have the best insight

[sand sigil]

[sand sigil]

kill halondrus, equip scars, kill anduin, unequip scars. that will be $5 thx

[wild cargo]

lets change the take: how does the raidbots apl handle the trinket?

[violet jackal]

Probably just uses on Cooldown, I believe when you sim it creates a combat log

[charred finch]

why?

[granite dock]

what are you doing here

[wild cargo]

Trying to learn

to play this joke of a class. Heil arcane

[granite dock]

This is the way

[violet jackal]

Assassination is a vibe (I think that's how the kids say it)

[prisma monolith]

All slots are close in output.
The best non tier slots across all specs are Belt or Wrists.
The best possible slot is likely Hands, Legs or Head.
Use a simulation to evaluate for your gear situation.

[blazing pumice]

!unityfix

[prisma monolith]

If you have issues with UNITY not working try the following:

• Log out and in again
• Close down World of Warcraft and clear the wow cache (delete Cache folder in WoW/retail)
• Unequip the Legendary and equip it again
• Change Soulbinds/Covenant

To prevent this issue in the future:

• Make sure to avoid putting two different unity legendaries on different gear sets. If you swap saved gear sets with different unities, it will break.

[gusty mirage]

Based

I’m glad you did find a use for it though it was looking grim for that trinket

[ebon notch]

i tried using it in keys on my warr

its completely fucked lmao

i remember hearthing out at the end of a key and dying to the bleed in oribos

[thick briar]

assass vs sub in m+, whos better? 🙂

[subtle tundra]

me im better

[ebon notch]

sub

[violet jackal]

different roles 🙃

[ebon notch]

yeah one goes in raid one goes in keys

[tired falcon]

i dont have sin gear so im wondering if anyone did any sims with tirathon?(as in, was it better than trinkets such as 272 phial?

[violet jackal]

https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/trinkets/1t-t28-assassination probably not. it not even on our list

oh wait bloodmallet has it simmed https://bloodmallet.com/chart/rogue/assassination/trinkets/castingpatchwerk

[vestal wren]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[vestal wren]

my spreadsheet has trinket combinations, tirathons is on the list too

[hardy dagger]

No joke this itteration of assa is really Nice to play

[echo geyser]

venthyr?

[hardy dagger]

Ye

Necro is fun aswell

Bit dry on 1t tho

[echo geyser]

yeah i think its just pantheon + lords u go necro right

rest is venthyr?

[hardy dagger]

Ye

I did went necro on ruge

Ryge

But dunno IF it's better

[echo geyser]

i still havent played venthyr sin in raid

only on a dummy once

[tired falcon]

too big brain for me

[whole cypress]

does anyone know if you can still cloak the halondrus bomb debuff off and pick up the bomb a second time?

[echo geyser]

u cant cloak it off

u can

cloak before picking up, then drop before cloak drops off (this is just buying u some extra seconds to replace bomb)

unless u wanna cheat death

[whole cypress]

ok thank you

[violet jackal]

You can achieve huge Kevin uptime with all the resets so there a world where necrolord could be better on rygelon

[echo geyser]

venthyr also has mfd resets but not the same i guess

kevin big juice

[gusty mirage]

In Kevin We Trust

[hardy dagger]

On mythic u get 100% uptime easily

[umbral sandal]

This our opener?

@balmy condor Can you help a peanut brain here

[tired falcon]

[winter vapor]

whats confusing you about it specifically @umbral sandal

[umbral sandal]

flag as our first spell to hit? dunno, i'm a sub main and haven't touched this spec since early SoD. Maybe i'm just understanding this wrong

[winter vapor]

so with Venthyr we take MA talen

which means that preceeding thing you open with Mutilate -> SnD -> Mutilate -> Garrote

which should give you 4/5 cp to then cast Flag and go with the above

[umbral sandal]

Okay so the opener is the same as in SoD

[winter vapor]

yeah 🙂

[umbral sandal]

Cool

Ty

[winter vapor]

no worries

[zinc frost]

It is until up until you hit flag

[oblique wasp]

guys I just wanted to say thanks for yesterday, I am blasting Assassination and it is like the sweetest thing ever 😗

[tight ginkgo]

Blasting… Ass?

[oblique wasp]

yeah its my most favourite one

[glass tulip]

If anyone knows beeslol-illidan guide him to the light

Ran a key with him and he wasn't running CT

[glass tulip]

Under appreciated joke and I want you to know that I appreciate you.

[oak sky]

Bro i saw some rogue in leveling dungeons that had ct and some key guy didnt do it? Aint no way

[zinc frost]

“Oh dang poison bomb on the ground, sounds like some sick aoe”

[oak sky]

Pb gone in dragonflight

[pastel onyx]

[pure moth]

months ago, someone wanted me to try poison bomb in a key. I called them nuts.

[ebon notch]

just shout "BIG DPS BRO" every time it procs

and theyll stop asking

[pure moth]

works for me

[glass tulip]

274 btw

Then 270 hpal let us die on 2nd boss and left group

[oak sky]

insane

[late needle]

is sepsis bad?

[bleak sky]

bad? no

the best option? no

[zinc frost]

^

[balmy condor]

Poison bomb, just like survival bombs

Survival bombs do damage

Poison bomb surely does as well

[zinc frost]

Makes no sense mechanically why we can’t. Like what do we just accidentally drop one of our poison vials and it spills on the ground

[lucid birch]

Poison Bomb W

[balmy condor]

Makes the ground slippery, the mobs start sliding like a cartoon banana peel

[indigo totem]

I'm sure there's a weak aura for the cartoon slippery sound 🤣

[spice spire]

Another banger

Another banger from mister mavverick

[glass tulip]

yeah okay trevor

[zinc frost]

https://tenor.com/view/mommy-milker-mushroomhead-gif-20196341

[glass tulip]

is mr quake a smosh fan?

[spice spire]

Nah I dabble in nonsense tho

Watch enough cooking the algorithm recommends josh, then smosh

[flint pond]

you save ven for every swarm on mythic dreads?

if running zoldyk

[drifting cloud]

yes

[flint pond]

cool ty

[drifting cloud]

theyre like 2:20 apart

and first one is :50

[solid chasm]

how cringe is necro sin in keys

i just need a 15 pf for the conduit

[ebon notch]

Why would it be cringe

It's good for aoe

[oak sky]

not cringe

[solid chasm]

i assume talents change from what im using on lords

i just wanna blast a 15 rq

[oak sky]

nah

same as lords

[solid chasm]

no pantheon groups up rn

sadge

[oak sky]

subt deeper ct

play marileth maybe 100% uptime kevin

[spice spire]

You 100% run marileth for a 15

Uptime should be nutters

[violet jackal]

If kevin uptime is less than 100% you are doomed to re run till perfection is attained

[solid chasm]

i had 98% uptime sadge

also i just realized

you prob dont want zoldyck for keys do you

[violet jackal]

no

[solid chasm]

LOL

that felt like such shit

[strange python]

how is sin feeling rn in raids?

[zinc frost]

Very good in raid

[hybrid vale]

It’s good for quests

[zinc frost]

??

Definitely good for more than just quests

[brazen zodiac]

lmfao

[hybrid vale]

Pet battles?

Transmog

Rp

[livid temple]

erp

[zinc frost]

[bleak sky]

[subtle tundra]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THEY BUFF MONK AGAIN NOOOOOOOO

NOOOOOO

[balmy condor]

And outlaw

[oak sky]

new main

Agreonchizus might come in off the bench

[subtle tundra]

Yea but 10% buff out of 15k overall doesn't mean anythinf

[balmy condor]

1.5k dps

[zinc frost]

Gotta break Varas out of monk jail

[subtle tundra]

Surely folyr kills jailer next week and gets 285 two hand

[zinc frost]

If Folyr gets 285 two hand you’ll be a peak of serenity regular

[subtle tundra]

Nah I looked there and haven't seen a sim of the buffs yet

Maybe I missed it

[umbral sandal]

hahhahah

[teal geyser]

hey guys, what would u recommend for jailor mythic progession, assa or sub?

[vestal wren]

whatever you are more comfortable playing

both work well on the fight

[teal geyser]

never played sin this tier, excapt lords but iam an average sub tbh...

[vestal wren]

well give it a try

and see if sin works for you, if it does not you can always switch back to sub

[teal geyser]

roger, thanks mate ❤️

[scarlet sequoia]

np

[prisma laurel]

can anyone send me a list of palumors assassin t mog i want to make the list as a to do list to get in the game

[vestal wren]

probably better to ask in #transmog

[steady dome]

which covenant will give me more dots ? if so is it a reliable ? i know other classes have a specific one that is superior but dont know if Sin is the same way or is good with any Cov. Thanks a lot new to the class and spec.

[bleak sky]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[bleak sky]

^good place to start

[cerulean nest]

did Cev ever update his overhang weakaura with garrote cd timer?

also how sim bait is IQD?

[tired falcon]

Bc it can give mana and hp

And will likely give mana on later parts of fight

[cerulean nest]

so likely that it's not a great choice?

[tired falcon]

I mean

It’s not bad

There’s some tech to not give mana and hp I’ve heard

[slow marsh]

Yeah it's called git gud

[ebon notch]

its good if you wanna parse on quick farm fights

like heroic or smth

cause you will get 2 uses and its almost guaranteed that theyll be stats

[cerulean nest]

for sure

on prog a cache/sigil + phial probably the better move then

[violet jackal]

necrolord will give you one more dot, it is very reliable as it last infinite or till dead

[drifting cosmos]

they still tick after your dead

[cerulean nest]

how rough is pantheon p3

considering sub just for the two button mash

[violet jackal]

bleed things, dodge things, cleave evenly, do your mechanic assignments not very hard

[steady dome]

nice to know as they are my favorite looking one

[violet jackal]

it's what I play in all content

[cerulean nest]

what are the conditions for using FoK?

[violet jackal]

3+ targets

[cerulean nest]

cool

[cerulean nest]

also what's the logic for vendetta overhang stuff on multiple targets

[balmy condor]

The same as single target

Sin aoe is literally just single target on multiple things

[cerulean nest]

I just mean in the final few seconds of vendetta would you want subt to quick reapply garrote? or just like pick a target and refresh the two as normal

[violet jackal]

vendetta only applies to one target you would refresh on that one mainly

[spice spire]

Well you want Vanish on CD ASAP to continue lineups, however, If you’re venthyr you’re running MA anyway

[cerulean nest]

vendetta on one target duh. been playing sub too long jesus

nvm lol

[spice spire]

Oh you meant aoe

Me one trick sin brain

Cd = st only

[cerulean nest]

yeah im talking like pantheon p3, or say mid-phase anduin + adds or Lords etc etc.

moments where youre among several targets

[violet jackal]

rail one target for 30 seconds and then continue on to AOE procedures

[cerulean nest]

say less

[ebon notch]

assa chat been kinda dead recently

[vestal wren]

all chats are less active atm, it is a side effect of people doing other things

[ebon notch]

side effect of survival/ww being broken

[vestal wren]

possible too, but i am not sure how many people switch classes

[gusty mirage]

poe league bro

we're playing a slightly less shit game

[hollow river]

[last rover]

william christianson alt account

[oak sky]

Outlaw getting all the traffic rn

[gusty mirage]

[ebon notch]

true

outlaw popping rn

[zinc frost]

Seen some juicy 16k sims already

[ebon notch]

werent those bis sims as well lmao

[zinc frost]

Yeah lmao, outlaw stocks on the rise

[echo geyser]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hm1E5VRF6Te8N6dmdoC6x8 @ebon notch

theres also some finish at -1 rule thats like 80dps apparently

[oak sky]

Weapon master shit

??

[echo geyser]

ss buffed

tt blunder stonks

[zinc frost]

Pirate arc inc.

[odd heath]

1 less button to press stonks

[oak sky]

Maybe i better get on outlaw

[zinc frost]

I need a 1 hander first

[ebon notch]

I accidentally looted from first boss lmao

[oak sky]

Oh yeah forgot about the 1h

Does outlaw rygelon offhand or sylv

[zinc frost]

Yeah I think sylv offhand is still BIS for outlaw, even a heroic one

[oak sky]

Sad

At least i have it

[ebon notch]

another leggo

pog

also no cos ring so big pog

[oak sky]

Oh wait i forgot playing outlaw would mean more legendaries

Yeah uhhhh

[echo geyser]

just crafted 4 more legos for fun

[oak sky]

Gold isnt a big problem for me but if i try to make that many leggos it will be

[bleak sky]

Agreon has 8 (eight) gold

[oak sky]

I gotta get back into the m+ sale grind

Some of my guildies want me to play outlaw so i might be able to get a group together sometime

[zinc frost]

Full zoomer mode

[oak sky]

Tbh i should probably work on my sub more first

[echo geyser]

• wearing 2 ofc

[oak sky]

I mean i have 2 for sub 2 for sin 2 unity

[zinc frost]

All these leggos just to play hunter/mage in premades

[oak sky]

I have some old sin leggos too come to think of it

[zinc frost]

Yeah I found a random doomblade cloak in my bank still

[ebon notch]

@echo geyser

[echo geyser]

i had to make use of my 30k flux somehow

[ebon notch]

its ribs time

[obtuse robin]

whats the line to sim p3 pantheon again?

[echo geyser]

enjoy

[ebon notch]

what you having for dindins

[echo geyser]

i had salmon with potatoes n sauce

[scarlet sequoia]

on a char without honored

down bad here

[turbid harbor]

how have you done this

[scarlet sequoia]

rbg mate

[turbid harbor]

fair enough

[scarlet sequoia]

u get 435 per win

[turbid harbor]

and my man likes to win

[scarlet sequoia]

naturally

[echo geyser]

how many chars u got

[ebon notch]

wtf gourmet shit

[scarlet sequoia]

3

[ebon notch]

any pics? 👀

[echo geyser]

435 is very nice tho

[scarlet sequoia]

its just pvp chars tho

rogue and dh for raid

dh is depressing as fuck to play tho ngl

[strange python]

why does venthyr use crimson tempest but other covs dont?

[balmy condor]

Because venthyr has haste and other covs dont

[ebon notch]

dots go brr

more dots = more dots to go brr

[tall cove]

so is this basically just misdirect for rogues?
i'm new to rogues, and obv it says that, but does it work just like it? i'm just confused by the wording

[spice spire]

Yes

It’s is md for rogues

Any attack you hit in the next 30 seconds after popping (assuming you use prepull) will start the 6s MD

[tall cove]

so will any aggro i had come back after those 6s?

[spice spire]

Yes if the tank doesn’t touch the target

[tall cove]

ah, alright cool. thanks!

[gusty mirage]

quick question, how much haste do I need to make assassination work?

[zinc frost]

Between 1-69 percent

[gusty mirage]

[zinc frost]

Preferably the sex number tho for optimal bleed uptime and juicy goodness

[gusty mirage]

[ebon notch]

You didn't hit the 420/69% breakpoint??

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/nice-south-park-gif-17950420

[spice spire]

More than0%

[drifting cosmos]

any hope for sin S4?

tried sub but just couldnt like it

[zinc frost]

What content are you looking for? Raid it will remain strong as it is now, m + unfortunately highly doubt there’ll be any changes made to make it competitive with sub in keys until next expansion (unless sub is unnecessarily nerfed)

[tall cove]

what is the overall best poison for M+?

[gusty mirage]

deadly always

as for non-lethal

mind numbing unless your tank needs a slow

[tall cove]

sounds good, ty

[manic walrus]

okay time to buckle down and learn sin, were about to kill anduin so i gotta practice for lords, how much haste would i need cuz rn im at a cool 4%

[gusty mirage]

stats don't really matter, just top gear your gear and see what plays best for you

more haste would be good and synergizes with 4pc

but it's not absolutely necessary to go farm a bunch of valor upgrades for example

[marble hemlock]

It's 30 seconds, actually

And the aggro will return regardless

So 6 sec before the next tricks is ready, you regain all the threat you misdirected on the previous cast (which is 30 seconds after the first one triggered). Usually doesn't matter, but there are situations where being aware of this can prevent overaggroing.

[brave gazelle]

sorry guys probs tired of being asked this, but whats the best slot to put unity if tier isnt an issue

[vestal wren]

probably head or legs, but best is to sim it for your gear

[violet jackal]

!unity

[prisma monolith]

All slots are close in output.
The best non tier slots across all specs are Belt or Wrists.
The best possible slot is likely Hands, Legs or Head.
Use a simulation to evaluate for your gear situation.

[ebon notch]

Why does it work like this? Is it a coding issue? Seems counterproductive to regain all the threat even if it's not a problem in most cases

[vestal wren]

the tank usually has enough thread generated during that time frame

[echo geyser]

last msg at 9am

outlaw was on fire last night

[vestal wren]

i hope so, outlaw didn't have the best of a patch so far

it is nice to see some incentive for people to experiment with it

[terse talon]

so will outlaw now compete with sin/sub in ST?

[vestal wren]

yes

!fuu the spreadsheet has updated simulations

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[vestal wren]

but keep in mind that the changes are not even on live servers and are fairly fresh

[gusty mirage]

Still a teeny bit behind sin, but all 3 are viable af now. Only took them 3 months

[terse talon]

ok thats cool 🙂 I prefer sin/sub but nice for all pirates!

[vestal wren]

it gets fairly good in cleave now, what could make it an interesting choice for m+

[gusty mirage]

Should be solid for lords too tbh

[vestal wren]

def. better than sub, not sure how it compares to sin with zold

[gusty mirage]

Problem with zold is it does fuck all for 70% of the fight

[vestal wren]

it sims higher for my estimate, but i didn't adjust the apl for any of the specs what makes it not perfectly representative

[subtle tundra]

what about sin with shadowdust?!?!?!

[gusty mirage]

What about it

[subtle tundra]

is it better??

[vestal wren]

oh true

dust is marginal better than zold

[gusty mirage]

I mean yeah

[bleak sky]

you know what's better
your monk getting fucking gear

[gusty mirage]

Ay yo stop bullying varas wtf

[bleak sky]

show boots

show boots right now

[subtle tundra]

this run for sure

[gusty mirage]

I don’t like who you’ve become

[bleak sky]

I haven't gotten my sleepies in yet

so I'm a tiny itsy bitsy grumpy

[gusty mirage]

Unlucky

I took a fat nap

[bleak sky]

im sorry varas you're my favorite in here

[gusty mirage]

Solid 4 hours

[subtle tundra]

what im witnessing in 17 pugs

is incredible

im sorry for all people down here

[gusty mirage]

Yeah it’s not pretty

You ever wipe to first boss in wake on a 15?

[subtle tundra]

yes

[gusty mirage]

Yeah I was doing alt shit and watched a full wipe in a 12

And not to the worms

[viscid spear]

You ever wipe 8 times to the last boss in Wake because your healer doesn't understand the dispel?

[subtle tundra]

wasnt the run

[ebon notch]

whats wrong with feet

[spice spire]

Illegal

[ebon notch]

this is my name in another server

[spice spire]

Absolutely fucking based

Holy

[ebon notch]

they were sharing pics of their feet

i didnt know shrek feet existed in real life bro

[gusty mirage]

[subtle tundra]

shrek feet sounds like leather feet

can i have?

trade

[gusty mirage]

bro?

[subtle tundra]

my monk is desperate

[gusty mirage]

someone get this man a pair of boots

@ebon notch yalla

[ebon notch]

no he has to funnel me

[plain onyx]

lol

[abstract yacht]

!snapshot

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of snapshotting

Bleeds update their tick rate dynamically, which means that if you get a haste proc (which increases our tick rate) from somewhere during the encounter (ie. Flagellation, Euphoria), the bleeds would automatically tick faster, but the second your haste goes back to normal, the tick rate goes back down as well.

Snapshotting refers to getting that haste proc, reapplying bleeds at the faster tick rate, but instead of the bleeds going back to a slower tick rate when your haste drops, they would continue ticking at a faster rate until they expire or are reapplied.

[subtle tundra]

i told my gm i swap mains from rogue to monk and he started flaming me :/

💀

[vestal wren]

that is because you spelled warlock incorrect

[subtle tundra]

monk objectively cooler

[vestal wren]

true

[spice spire]

You’ve changed

[ebon notch]

IM CHOKING BABY

BOSS DIES TODAY AND IM CHOKING OUT OF MY MIND

LETS GO

[subtle tundra]

choke on deez nuts

[subtle tundra]

hey, i meant to compare to warlock

not rogue

rogue coolest

[ebon notch]

hof

😎

[vague leaf]

question gamers

are we sharpening stone gamers

wasn't in the faq

Unless I'm blind

[red plaza]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[vague leaf]

ty sir

[vestal wren]

usually stones

[glacial steppe]

dang, lihuvim feels cringe as sin

idk where to use vendetta

[solid venture]

pain

[glacial steppe]

F bro

you got it champ

[solid venture]

300 wipes

im about to

[glacial steppe]

felt the same at azshara after 300 :D

[winter vapor]

does feint work for jailers tank soak?

[violet jackal]

yes

[winter vapor]

ty

[solid venture]

we did it last pull of the night

[vestal wren]

gz

[brave gazelle]

Gz bud

[ebon notch]

gzgz

@subtle tundra you can make as much fun of me as you want

at this point

i have nothing else to say

[subtle tundra]

im not laughing at anyone, its just friendly banter

and i shouldnt be the one to laugh

[ebon notch]

idk im just like

out of juice

but the store is closed

i cannot acquire more juice

but i must pull boss

[subtle tundra]

i wiped the raid on a kill pull for hof so i shouldnt talk

[echo geyser]

no more juice left in the juicebox?

[ebon notch]

all outta juice

[echo geyser]

well nerfs are coming on wednesday right?

or u still doing more raids before

[ebon notch]

tomorrow and tues

[echo geyser]

we didnt even kill anduin tonight on reclear

[ebon notch]

i wish i could stream

[echo geyser]

so no lords for my hunter

[ebon notch]

havin the homies to banter with while wiping would be fuckin goals

[subtle tundra]

youre only reclearing 1 day?

[echo geyser]

yuh

chill but b ad if we dont 1 shot everything

[subtle tundra]

we reclear 2 days

until we get comfy

[ebon notch]

its better for peoples mentals

[echo geyser]

bunch of new alts

[subtle tundra]

-.-

[echo geyser]

we got a bunch of raid loggers

[subtle tundra]

im trying to convince my gm to get folyr in

[echo geyser]

i did halondrus on hunter first time

was bit sketchy

i miss having 24% avoidance on rogue

[subtle tundra]

but you have mark all the time

• just feign on cd

[echo geyser]

yeah its just not up for all those circle thingys

[subtle tundra]

on monk i probably can just defensive every mechanic

lol

[echo geyser]

also monk is a vers stacker

[subtle tundra]

yea tru

i have 31% vers on mine

[echo geyser]

just get 20% avoidance and u good to go

+42 keys

[subtle tundra]

MAN ill always mention the back my tank took

with avoidance

smh

when he had 278 boe

and he's a tank

[echo geyser]

at least leather has nice boes

can buy legs head

big avoidance gains

[subtle tundra]

NO MONEYS

[echo geyser]

i am in 1.5mil debt indeed

[ebon notch]

to who lmao

guild?

[echo geyser]

no i just borrowed from a friend

for boes

[unreal kayak]

Got 15% avoidance 0 gold spent

[echo geyser]

lucky

[ebon notch]

how much interest

[echo geyser]

no loan for u

[ebon notch]

[echo geyser]

i got my rogue dh and hunter boe'd up

Ram Bank 📉

just need a few more mil for boes on mage and wl

[viscid spear]

[echo geyser]

i am part of the problem

[ebon notch]

at least 25% of this is rams boe addiction

[viscid spear]

Aliens finna come collect

[ebon notch]

can i borrow some gold

i need boes

[echo geyser]

[ebon notch]

ur just jealous im getting so good at jailer

[echo geyser]

hope u get freed from jail soon

must be going crazy soon

[subtle tundra]

"soon"

[ebon notch]

("soon")

[echo geyser]

u said u could raid a lot

(hardcore)

[ebon notch]

yes but even jpc is saying we raid too much

(help)

[echo geyser]

[balmy condor]

Amount of raiding makes up for skill

Or so im told

(We added a raid day this tier)

[ebon notch]

if we raided 9 days per week

we'd be better than liquid

(slight hint of copium)

[drifting cloud]

[ebon notch]

this is a RH emote

[gusty mirage]

what's wrong with 3 day raiding?

[glass tulip]

the fact that we havent killed jailer yet

[spice spire]

I find mfs like u real interesting

[hollow river]

[swift lodge]

So i know Marked for Death is the recommended talent, however, as i am just relearning assassination at this point im looking for one less key bind to use, would it be better to go vigor or DS for that?

[bleak sky]

Why relearn the bad talents

Make a lil effort and run mfd

[oak sky]

Like mfd is a button you press every 30s its not exactly a huge commitment

[drifting cloud]

damn playing pb is actually -300 dps for my char

didnt think it was that much

[echo geyser]

[swift lodge]

Fair enough, im just not sure where to throw it into the rotation i guess

Am i religiously keeping it up like garrotte and rupture?

whoops

Thinking crimson tempest here

[violet jackal]

Probably play a different covenant then if you don't want to have the extra button

[gusty mirage]

yo thats crazy

but I don't remember asking

[oak sky]

I did

[hollow river]

Check the rotation in the faq channel

You use once after pressing flag, and you can use it once between every flag window for a free finisher

[spice spire]

@oak sky did

So get bent idiot!

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/did-you-know-no-one-gif-24072009

[drifting cloud]

nothing sir carry on, just wasnt aware whispyrs guild also added a day

[gusty mirage]

(save me I want to cry)

[drifting cloud]

(your suffering is just about to start)

[oak sky]

I raid 3 day too

3 days of anduij

N

[drifting cloud]

food for thought @gusty mirage , you were flaming alliance hof

but you are aware r100 alliance guild is still higher rank than your guild

in the sense that well, if they dont kill jailer in a month for example you probably wont aswell

[oak sky]

Ye they were all done with andy before oxi

[hybrid vale]

Alliance are turds, they say things like FOR THE KALDOREI

[gusty mirage]

damn dude that's crazy

so what you're saying is if we swapped ally

we'd have a shot at hall of fame

[ebon notch]

#goals

[gusty mirage]

[ebon notch]

im finna do that oxi ty

[drifting cloud]

basically, but I think theres some cooldown if you do that isnt there?

or was that only m+

[gusty mirage]

no clue

I'll never be a hall of fame raider

I'm just not good enough

I'm "mid" as @bleak sky likes calling it

[ebon notch]

wtf @bleak sky u flaming?

[gusty mirage]

he called himself mid

and I'd like to think he's better than me

[drifting cloud]

I dunno im just finding it so hard to gauge how wr500ish guilds will perform on jailer

[gusty mirage]

so

[drifting cloud]

I guess well know in like 2 weeks

[gusty mirage]

I'll keep a journal for you

[oak sky]

I'm mid af

Frfr

[ebon notch]

no ur lazy af

frfr

[drifting cloud]

but maybe they will just nerf him a little bit every 2 weeks aswell

[oak sky]

U wanna be my agent and manage my wowprog for me?

[gusty mirage]

can they nerf him so my mental health won't suffer

[ebon notch]

i already tried doing that

[gusty mirage]

idk if they have that kind of nerf in their toolbox

[drifting cloud]

cuz like jailer is alot harder than sire and sylvannas, even next weeks version

[bleak sky]

imagine me, a wr 1200 raider being better than Oxi, Ravenholdt's Esquire

just isn't true

[drifting cloud]

but at the same time hes not really a boss you can wipe 500+ wipes on (if you started prog today for example)

[ebon notch]

i cannae believe it

[oak sky]

Bro this is so me

[gusty mirage]

I saw what minalba looks like

he's hot af

[oak sky]

Used to be his pfp

[gusty mirage]

he hangs out with the hottest dudes

[oak sky]

Bangs*

[ebon notch]

bangs the hottest clothes or smth

[gusty mirage]

nah nah that pfp doesn't do him justice

[gusty mirage]

this man copypastas

[oak sky]

Hangs out with the hottest women bangs the hottest dudes

Idr the whole thing

[drifting cloud]

anyways oxi if it makes you feel better for me the first 5min on jailer as rogue

are pretty chill

so you can just brain off and wait for ranged to learn slurps

[ebon notch]

the entire fight

is chill

[drifting cloud]

worst part is if you run like 5+ melee when you get dumb ass back left bomb

[ebon notch]

if you jump into the back right hole too late

you get launched so high up

you cant step back to the boss

[drifting cloud]

oh yeah that aswell

[gusty mirage]

they still count hpals and mw as melee?

[ebon notch]

ye

[gusty mirage]

sick

[drifting cloud]

or well I guess we have a bomb weakaura that has prio assignments

[gusty mirage]

yeah we'll do that too

finding the hole is a problem for us

[ebon notch]

bro we fcked up bombs like

two times back to back

[drifting cloud]

daps do you get alot of b2b bombs?

[ebon notch]

and i so bad wanted to say "i wonder why so many talented gamers keep going into the wrong hole"

[ebon notch]

literally never

unless there are lots of people dead

[drifting cloud]

never? fuck my charid

I get it every 3rd pull

[ebon notch]

what

like

[drifting cloud]

with 20 alive

yes

[ebon notch]

when you get a bomb you get semi immunity

you can get alternating

like 1st 3rd

but ive never gotten 1st 2nd

[drifting cloud]

bro ill link log if I can figure out

what to look for

[ebon notch]

like if you want to get bombs

you want 2nd and 4th

cause you do them and your cds come up immediately after

[drifting cloud]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wf2Q4BrYC7jdWAvT#type=auras&spells=debuffs&ability=360281&source=62&fight=36 here you go back to back bombs

[hybrid vale]

Difference between mid and top tier raider: best custom wa pack

[ebon notch]

thats crazy lmao

[drifting cloud]

like I said its every 3rd pull or something

[ebon notch]

is it every 30s?

[drifting cloud]

ofc not 🙂

[ebon notch]

no i mean

the interval for the bombs

[drifting cloud]

yeah step is still on cd

[ebon notch]

i found this

[ebon notch]

step is 25 no?

with conduit

[drifting cloud]

yeah but first and 2nd are less than 25 apart

[ebon notch]

if that happens ill just ask for a grip

[oak sky]

27 with conduit

[crude mortar]

In M+, on a smaller, standard pull of 4-5 mobs or so, how many ruptures should i be putting up before the first crimson application?

[drifting cloud]

looking at his cast timeline he seems to cast them, 35s, 58s, 1:24, 1:53, 2:20, 2:38

[drifting cloud]

0

[crude mortar]

crimson first?

[drifting cloud]

afaik yeah

[crude mortar]

so basic opener in that situtation would be like: garrote x3, s&d, fan till Max cp-1, Crimson?

assuming S&D isn't still running?

[glass tulip]

@gusty mirage You can be HoF as a mid level player

just gotta put in the hours. If you smash your face into the bosses for 5-6 raid days per week you get it easy

with like double the pull count as average

[drifting cloud]

I mean theres not that many guilds like that 😛

[glass tulip]

I'm good friends with a guild that is exactly like that

speak any spanish?

[drifting cloud]

sure, but its still a minority Id say

[glass tulip]

well I didnt say that's all that rank is

just that it is possible

[drifting cloud]

people dont stay in those guilds that long, they can find better ones

depending on tier you can have decent 4day guilds that miss hof, same as how you have good 3day guilds that make hof

but in the west so many of top100 private logs so its hard to say something what the average pull counts would be across the raid

[glass tulip]

it sure as heck is below 527 jailer pulls

[ebon notch]

Kek

Me irl

[drifting cloud]

just because I know a wr30 guild killed jailer in 190 pulls doesnt mean the average wasnt over 300

[glass tulip]

ryler I hear you bro, no need to white knight those guys

they suck each other off enough

[drifting cloud]

well 527 is alot

but maybe they were wr40

or did they make hof by 1 day

makes a big difference aswell

[glass tulip]

that's not the point though, but doesnt matter

I was making a joke at the expense of people I know, not trying to generalize everyone :)

[drifting cloud]

yeah I get it but everyone is allowed to int a boss here or there

[ebon notch]

I feel generalised

Why you hate me

[drifting cloud]

unless youre gonna tell me they had 400 + halondrus, 400+ anduind aswell and maybe 300 rygelon on top of it

[glass tulip]

but you arent part of the hof group so how could it be about you

[ebon notch]

HAHAHAHAH

I go cry

[drifting cloud]

hof is also not THAT small a club

I think if you called a guild that gets top50 every tier for multiple xpacs a hof guild they might feel a little insulted 😛

[glass tulip]

halon 300
anduin 300
rygelon 200
jailer 500

that is a lot and you cant tell me otherwise

[drifting cloud]

its not insanely high

[bleak sky]

wow ego is that fragile huh

[glass tulip]

yep, thanks for your viewpoint, I will hold it, cherish it, but I'm done on this topic. quite tired tonight

[drifting cloud]

was just an example

[ebon notch]

If they're pre nerf then it's w.e

[glass tulip]

REEE I wasn't saying more pulls = bad

but yes

[drifting cloud]

but yeah this tier is quite something alright

[glass tulip]

if only it ended on aduin

and then we got crucible of storms v2

[echo geyser]