assassination

[oak sky]

gg

[timid cloud]

🧢

Feral is worse Sin.

Change my mind.

[oak sky]

i am THE sin zoomer

[fleet anchor]

Feral weaving Resto Druids doing more damage with Feral abilities than Feral does. Always a fan favorite.

[oak sky]

i can make it

[ebon notch]

They have raid utility

[timid cloud]

So does Sin???

[oak sky]

yeah bro innvervate in 10.0

[timid cloud]

Are you straight delusional?

Rogue Utility is #1

Boss die.

[fleet anchor]

Feral has always been worse. Feral is for sick people.

I wouldn't know anything about that. 👀

[timid cloud]

[fleet anchor]

I'm still mentally damaged from this

[timid cloud]

Different level of pain.

[fleet anchor]

lol man I forgot how wild the damage scaling was in HFC

[balmy condor]

Amen

[fleet anchor]

Rank 1 Zakuun parse in the 3rd week

64k

My highest parse at the end of the tier

223k 🤣

HFC was wild times man

[balmy condor]

Hfc felt like you always had an upgrade tho

Was sick

[oak sky]

bro im about to hop on agreonmoon

and show up koji

[ebon notch]

hitting bis is a super nice feeling tho

[fleet anchor]

HFC was honestly such a great tier. It went on too long for sure, but I can't think of many tiers that could have gone for that long without being toxic af

[bleak sky]

so you played rogue druid and rogue rogue

[balmy condor]

Yeah idk, I hit bis last season

[fleet anchor]

Even by the end I still mostly liked HFC

[balmy condor]

And I just sat there like okay what now

Why am I reclearing

[fleet anchor]

Bosses were really fun to parse on

[timid cloud]

That’s when you take alts.

[ebon notch]

to do big dam

once you hit bis

you know the only thing stopping you is your skill

and once you can only focus on yourself 100%

[timid cloud]

Hitting BIS is just the next part to hitting those 100’s

[ebon notch]

you just blast so much harder

[timid cloud]

[fleet anchor]

Like if I had to kill Sylv as many times as I killed Archimonde, I think I'd just start jumping off the edge on pull

[balmy condor]

The only thing stopping you without bis is also skill though

[ebon notch]

ofc

but most people cant focus on that when they dont have bis

they always make excuses like

"oh i dont have this piece"

[fleet anchor]

The only thing stopping you right now is 43 externals 😄

[ebon notch]

"im missing X mainstat"

once you can just lock in

[balmy condor]

Yeah and you know what we call that daps?

[ebon notch]

feels so good

[balmy condor]

A difference in construction

[ebon notch]

constructed alternatively?

[balmy condor]

Exactly

[ebon notch]

yeah i know i am

what of it

[balmy condor]

Once you free yourself of the earthly desire for gear

You’re free to skill check yourself

[ebon notch]

pin that

thats gospel

here

should be on the entrance of the covenant hall

[bleak sky]

yeah whispyr's second rogue

you need a druid named whispurr

[balmy condor]

I was singing in the shower today and found the resonant frequency while singing the halo theme

Was pretty sick

[bleak sky]

lean in on the catboy

[fleet anchor]

Doesn't get any better than that tbh

[ebon notch]

i love that feeling

[balmy condor]

Start hearing the shower door shake a little

That’s that good shit

[ebon notch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRG9KwvbVhk

this shit

80 guys 1 bathroom

goals

[balmy condor]

There’s like

25 people

That are tone deaf

[ebon notch]

true

theyre doing their best

[balmy condor]

Yeah it just kinda sounds like when you press down all the piano keys at once

[ebon notch]

ok its not that bad

[fleet anchor]

This actually physically hurts me on the close ups, but it sounds good from outside probably since it gets diffused

[ebon notch]

bruh how do i stop my plater from putting raid marks on the side

on friendlies

in oribos it doesnt do it but i walk into an instance and they shift

[glass tulip]

@viscid spear what is your toon again?

[strange python]

is axe better than wand for sin

for st

[oak sky]

yes

[glass tulip]

!cache

[prisma monolith]

Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand

[strange python]

:) ty

[bleak sky]

ashkitten on mg

[terse hinge]

Alright, fellas, here it is: strongest spec at this time?

[bleak sky]

yes

[terse hinge]

I've been gone for a year

What did I miss

Assassination's better now I hear

[oak sky]

not outlaw

[terse hinge]

Is outlaw bad now?

HELL YEAH

[glass tulip]

anyone know of PI value sheet like the WF one

[civic trellis]

pins in #wow-general

[hollow river]

Whatever you play better

Assa can be better for certain fights, same for sub. Sub is better in dungeons etc

[terse hinge]

Huh

never expected that sub would be better in dungeons

[hollow river]

Sub is insanely better than the other 2

[fleet anchor]

I played rogue druid then rogue rogue then rogue druid then blind rogue then rogue rogue 🤣

[hollow river]

Doesn’t really matter what you play unless you’re struggling to time the keys you’re doing

[mortal pike]

assa is poggers in raid

dont let the haters keep you down

[spice spire]

Brother?

[oak sky]

[spice spire]

You log watching, again?

[oak sky]

minalba is your humble student

the brazilian P.I.

[spice spire]

Nah homie

[bleak sky]

my man

the day has 24 hours

[hollow river]

Stop demonizing the art of the log watch plz

[bleak sky]

sleep for 6, logwatch for 18

[hollow river]

😈

[oak sky]

bro i wish this was me fr

[spice spire]

Sin chat after dark

More demonic than MakeitQuake

Damn

[oak sky]

i needa make less time for school and more time for logwatching

[hollow river]

[bleak sky]

you do pomodoro

work for 25 min, logwatch for 5

EZClap

[hollow river]

I need to quit my job

[spice spire]

Mfers got a spread sheet of rogue + all Alts + guild Alts

On god

[hollow river]

Log watch and farm gold

[spice spire]

Bet minalba got a whole ass house arthas spreadsheet

[bleak sky]

[spice spire]

Updated every hour on the hour

[bleak sky]

I would never write a bot to check House of Arthas WCL page and give me info every few hours

[hollow river]

Dude ain’t fuckin around

[oak sky]

bro whos at the top of the logwatch list

[hollow river]

Gotta make sure he isn’t missing any damage. Even on his 2nd warlock

[bleak sky]

some clown named Agreonr

[oak sky]

top of mine always been vel always will be

[spice spire]

It’s been a slow tier then

[oak sky]

vellaena-stormrage

[spice spire]

Man’s been kept down by the government

[hollow river]

Hmm

[spice spire]

And taxes

[oak sky]

not to worry quake i been getting some inside info

[hollow river]

Honestly

Seliathin

[oak sky]

vel may make a return in farm

[hollow river]

Because he’s very ethical

On prog kills

[spice spire]

That’s because seli has to full on rl

[hollow river]

The other rogue in his guild does the same

I tend to check their timings before my prog

[oak sky]

bro i make my own timings

im a savant fr (arcane mage main)

[hollow river]

Their guild has very similar kill timers as we do

Typically

[oak sky]

ours are usually slow

[hollow river]

So I just check em out as a guide line

Yeah ik

[oak sky]

i dont usually think about other peoples timers i just do my thing and do as much dam doing as a dam doer can do

[bleak sky]

agreonicy

not frost mage

[oak sky]

i should go arcane

just confuse everyone

[spice spire]

BRO

[bleak sky]

we keep tabs

[oak sky]

do you know any of my other guys

ayo wait my skolex ilvl parse slammed

[bleak sky]

just agreonchizus

[spice spire]

He knows ur monk

Ye

[bleak sky]

yea

[spice spire]

That ones whatever, we ran a key tho

Mfer keeping tabs fr tho

Name all quake toons rn, mister minalba

[oak sky]

bro wait for the dk to pop up ok

[spice spire]

Gonna see if you got em on lock

[bleak sky]

I did a cn lfr wing with agreonicy

[oak sky]

hes on the rise

oh you did

i remember

that was for my leggo

[spice spire]

I did a DN LFG wing with agreon

[bleak sky]

you got the bois

makeitquake, quakewar, quakethree, quakepapi, quakenboots, || makeitpantsgrabhyper ||

[spice spire]

You’re missing two

[bleak sky]

there's more characters lying around

[oak sky]

quaketwo

[spice spire]

Nah

[bleak sky]

they're probably NEGLECTED AND ABANDONED THOUGH

[spice spire]

Doesn’t exist

[oak sky]

ill leak all my guys once

ok?

[spice spire]

And somewhat yeah

[oak sky]

take notes logwatchers

agreondk will face a rename before being used

be warned

[bleak sky]

evoker gotta be dragreon

[oak sky]

we shall see

some of these guys are giga banned though

[bleak sky]

[oak sky]

moon and spear

banned

[bleak sky]

why though

agreonspear should be blasting

[spice spire]

Amen

[oak sky]

i was playing it mm

because i got bored of spear

and then i got bored of mm

so i gave up leveling

[bleak sky]

i see i see

[oak sky]

(hunter stinks)

moon being banned is self explanatory

[ebon notch]

you know you can just buy those right

[oak sky]

you know this was months ago right

also my mage definitely had 0 korthia resource

[ebon notch]

its not korthia resource lmao

its a vendor in zerith mortis

smh tbqh

[oak sky]

again

this was months ago

zm didnt exist

[ebon notch]

[oak sky]

you

[ebon notch]

timeframe simeframe

pshh

[oak sky]

bouta get my last vamp renown on mage

[carmine dawn]

[glass tulip]

I got mavvdragon

bad dragon rp'er

[zinc frost]

Sounds like a pain in the ass

[hexed root]

ooooo I should figure out an evoker name

[vast loom]

Uwuoker

[muted condor]

EvokeyWokey

[timber fable]

mainly running mythic+. using subterfuge. is this opener fine for boss pulls? why no CT? dont have set gear yet. running double lego

[polar sinew]

hello where is a weak aura that show me my DoTs on one specific target when i target it or focus it ?

[bleak sky]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[oak sky]

yeah you should ct in single target for keys and that opener is fine, but you normally have snd rolling already so you would just do another ambush or a finisher

[timber fable]

So after this opener start cast CT to maintain it?

[oak sky]

yeah pretty much

ct is just a little higher prio than envenom

[timber fable]

mainly just envenom to keep snd up? and when u shiv i guess?

[oak sky]

yeah, and any time none of the other dots are in pandemic

[polar sinew]

i would like to use Tricks of the Trade as mousover on health bar in my group and not on the player is it possible ? i wanted to use it "/cast [@mouseover]" but it's not enough to target only the health bar

[balmy condor]

That should work

I use that macro

[strange python]

Why am I top damage in every key this shit is brutal

I'm perfectly happy with my 15k on small pulls

But why is the lock and hunter at 11k

[balmy condor]

It’s actually
/cast [@x]
/cast [@mouseover]
/click autotankmisdirect

[polar sinew]

ty !

[gusty mirage]

because they suck

[strange python]

So I can't up my own keys, and I can't get into pugs because there's a million others applying with 3300 io

How get conduits

[gusty mirage]

I just played with people I know

I rarely pug anymore

because you're going to get 3k hunters and warlocks who suck balls

who legit got that rating because they play hunter or warlock

[strange python]

I haven't been back to the game v long and my tanks only run with their out of guild push groups

[gusty mirage]

pushing rain of fire is difficult

also very cool that the relics randomly knock us out of stealth

[strange python]

Delete m+

[gusty mirage]

what a dogshit affix

[strange python]

V fun

[gusty mirage]

the range on that stupid fucking ability is like 60 yards too

[strange python]

Love getting flamed by a 16k DPS mage because I did 15.5k and he says "rogue is op how did I beat you"

[gusty mirage]

KEK

yeah bro they buffed your FoK dam by 30%

why aren't you doing 20k overall

wtf

[strange python]

I was sub to be fair

[gusty mirage]

just make sure your xymox trinket is off CD sooner than 3 minutes

and is always on axe

ez

[strange python]

But also was doing explosives because our healer "has to soothe"

[gusty mirage]

was the mage frost?

[strange python]

And also wasting all my dances to spam cheap shots

Yes

[gusty mirage]

oh, if only they had an ability that naturally cleaved

that'd be neat wouldn't it

yeah I don't do any of that anymore bro

I just spam BP

fuck funnel fuck doing the dirty work

[strange python]

I'm so tired of being utility bitch and also being too damage

Top

[gusty mirage]

I don't funnel urh at the beginning of a pack

don't care

not my problem, we keep getting Wo? unfortunate

[strange python]

You've become the evil

I'm not far behind

[gusty mirage]

I'm just over doing all the bitch work in a key and then getting shit on for not doing "big dam"

I don't care to push this season, and I won't

I got my 3k io, got my conduits, now I just do my 8 15s-20s and move on with my life

[vestal wren]

huh?

[gusty mirage]

which bis profile are you referencing

[gusty mirage]

like the one used by bloodmallet for sims?

[vestal wren]

thats the bis from my spreadsheet

with the change in apl

[whole mason]

yeah, referencing the old ones in bloodmallet

[gusty mirage]

Oh, yeah I'm not sure who's in charge of those tbh

[whole mason]

didn't check your spreadsheet for a while...

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[whole mason]

ok, never mind then

[vestal wren]

i can do it over the weekend maybe

i have updated tier profiles for a while

but the simc formating needs some changes i need to make to put it in

[gusty mirage]

do you know who's in charge of the herodamage ones?

[vestal wren]

i can ask aethys to re-run it

[loud light]

is the 17206 just the 17018 profile with the new APL?

[gusty mirage]

[whole mason]

wait, cannot see the 17206 in the sheet..?

[vestal wren]

because of apl updates etc

but probably should update the tier profiles before that

because both bloodmallet/hd use them as baseline

[gusty mirage]

Yeah the apl updates legit just got into the nightly

[whole mason]

could you post the link, please?

[vestal wren]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cgDnoUn5af8JPK67Xc8XG8

but its the same as on the spreadsheet

just re-run

the only change is the apl update koji made

but the apl update could also mean slight changes in the profile gear

so i need to re-run some combinations too, to see if thats the case

[hollow escarp]

/m

wrong chat

[gusty mirage]

[whole mason]

ah, i forgot the race thing

items should be almost the same

[gusty mirage]

278 IQD should in theory be better than a phial now, no? @vestal wren

[vestal wren]

maybe

it is also possible that stats change

apl changes can have impact on it, thats why every a bit more impactful change means i need to re-run a lot of stuff

[gusty mirage]

true, everyone's favorite time a new apl change that throws everything out fo the window

[glass tulip]

Sigil is just straight better than cache right?

[hollow escarp]

depends on fight timers

[glass tulip]

1 vs 2 use for sigil?

[hollow escarp]

it's also just vers

[gusty mirage]

it's a fuck ton of vers though

[glass tulip]

Like over 1000 right?

[vestal wren]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/heAJezWcAZrW5QfhB6Bhck

[gusty mirage]

[hollow escarp]

yeah, but crit iqd during lust opener

[vestal wren]

i am actually surprised how good cache is

[gusty mirage]

[vestal wren]

maybe i should look into sword buff

[gusty mirage]

yeah I think sword buff is probably giga with how aggressive we are at taking advantage of the snapshot

[hollow escarp]

man, the sword is so sad when you press it by accident

[gusty mirage]

why

[hollow escarp]

even worse on sub in m+

[gusty mirage]

it's legit so much haste

[gusty mirage]

TRUE

[vestal wren]

ye, but if you can snapshot it with vendetta

it might be rly nice

[gusty mirage]

"oh shit wand's up" hits bind last second change to sword "FUCK"

[hollow escarp]

kinda hard to sync, unless you do the pull timers

also sometimes cache rotation resets on pull

[vestal wren]

the idea would be to sync it only if possible

[gusty mirage]

still trying to figure out why this happens

[hollow escarp]

mhm

[vestal wren]

so its not a "always use sword" but "if it works out well"

but would need to look at the trinket line

and test

[gusty mirage]

yeah I'd assume sword during vendetta would be nice

[hollow escarp]

I see, just like how the wand can be the better option in some situations

like if the boss is about to die in 20 sec or less

idk

[vestal wren]

ye, but wand is more a single target option for sub

and wand gets worse with higher haste levels too

[gusty mirage]

I wish we could just like pick what buff we want from it

instead of a rotation

[hollow escarp]

for how rng it is, the trinket is kinda interesting

[vestal wren]

iirc i did set haste to 1000 for sub and axe/wand did become almost similar

ofc you can't get 1000 more stats with current gear

so it is a artificially created situation

[gusty mirage]

I need to hit the dummies to prep for prog as sin

[balmy condor]

don’t scare me

[gusty mirage]

1 opening WM proc in 3 hours of halondrus prog

fat 2 cp snd

very fun

[hollow escarp]

in 200 pulls of Halondrus the venthyr rotation becomes as boring as good old sin

[gusty mirage]

wtb 278 dagger in vault blizzard PLEASE

using double EoN still hurts my soul

[hollow escarp]

loot it from Skolex 😎

[gusty mirage]

wanna know what I got from skolex?

[hollow escarp]

no

not the

BEEEELLS

[gusty mirage]

if you guess the haste mastery cloak

you'd be right

[hollow escarp]

not bad

[gusty mirage]

I've gotten 2 drops in mythic, that cloak and the ring off guardian

[hollow escarp]

that ring

[gusty mirage]

21 kills

2 pieces of gear

[hollow escarp]

my first mythic drop as well

[cobalt hemlock]

didnt see the first sigil there i heard it was good for a long time

[loud light]

all of those profiles have first sigil in the other trinket slot

[cobalt hemlock]

ah i see so with the cache we would be using double on use trinkets?

[hollow escarp]

double on use not that bad with iqd/sigil and cache

since you can pop cache anytime

[gusty mirage]

yeah considering sigil has a 17 hour cd

you get like 1 use maybe 2 an entire fight

[hollow escarp]

not sure if it's fair to compare but I remember using the plume from Kings Rest for quite some time

and it gave similar numbers of vers at that time

I think we had a higher stat budget in BFA though

[gusty mirage]

sure did

plume def didn't give 30% vers

[vestal wren]

sigil is in the first slot, thats why its low, running 2x sigil does not work well

so all combinations are sigil + x

[whole mason]

does the snapshot of vend only snapshot haste? or it also snapshot other buff like crit from IQD?

[vestal wren]

it snapshots haste

[whole mason]

thanks.

now the question is when the bug of shiv is going to get fixed.

[gusty mirage]

I wouldn't hold my breath

[whole mason]

you think it is not going to get fixed..?

then i can never play sin this patch

[hollow escarp]

glad I can't reproduce the bug

the other rogue is sub

[gusty mirage]

you guys run 2 rogues?

bold

[hollow escarp]

not on all bosses

we didn't kill Pantheon at all

[whole mason]

2 rogues at m7 isn't considered normal../

[hollow escarp]

and will probably both get benched on Anduin

[gusty mirage]

you're not missing anything dw

[hollow escarp]

only sigil

[gusty mirage]

nah

fuck it

[hollow escarp]

[gusty mirage]

not worth the emotional pain of that fight

[empty hinge]

[hollow escarp]

yeah, I can live without it

cache + phial is comfy

[whole mason]

but im sure that the bug is reported, right?

[hollow escarp]

[gusty mirage]

it is, but I'm just not very confident in blizzard's focus on fixing the bugs with the tier sets

[hollow escarp]

wish they had public Known Issue Posts at blizzard

because it feels so weird to report something in game

[gusty mirage]

sub's tier set just randomly breaks your ability to generate combo points

[hollow escarp]

and have no clue if it's tracked

[vestal wren]

tbh its a fairly simple bug so should be a quick fix

[gusty mirage]

outlaw's tier set is just one giant nest of bugs

[vestal wren]

!bugs

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Bug tracker: https://github.com/SimCMinMax/WoW-BugTracker/labels/Rogue

[whole mason]

can we summon scary to this issue...?

[vestal wren]

^ we usually try to have our bugs on the tracker

[hollow escarp]

I guess they do have some sort of KIPs

[vestal wren]

they do have a ticket system internally from what i know

[hollow escarp]

but it's not that centralized as this community made github page

ofc

[vestal wren]

i mean, if somehting is missing on the tracker, you can just open a issue

[gusty mirage]

yeah they sure rushed to fix garrote and shiv not applying deadly poison

[vestal wren]

some bugs i would say are fine to exist

e.g. i don't mind the finality bug, or the er ones

[hollow escarp]

tbf, that's what I do for work and I know that some bugs can sit in queue for engineers for 6+ months

because the impacted users are not that many as for other bugs

so warlock bugs > rogue bugs

[vestal wren]

i think its more about things that break the game

[hollow escarp]

yeah, those have prio for sure

[vestal wren]

if something has higher impact it is more likely to be fixed

[gusty mirage]

true, they did patch exsang breaking the servers w/ SBS pretty quickly

[vestal wren]

also just saying, there are more warlocks than assassination rogues

[hollow escarp]

exactly

poor outlaws

[gusty mirage]

It is legit a Sadge, no rogue spec deserves that

[whole mason]

It seems the shiv tier set bug is not there?

[vestal wren]

no, but i can quickly open a ticket

[gusty mirage]

it has been reported to blizzard already though

[vestal wren]

^

still probably good to have it on the tracker, even if its redundant

[whole mason]

great, but it is Saturday. I'll then be playing sub tonight

and the other rogue is playing NF

cannot even share the new venthyr stuff with him

[hollow escarp]

speaking of bugs, I noticed there was a bugged quest in Blade's Edge Mountains and it had a post on blizzard's website that will get fixed in 9.2, turns out there is a similar quest in Zereth Mortis so they just waited on that to fix them together

[gusty mirage]

the daily for the simon says quest?

[hollow escarp]

ye

[gusty mirage]

yeah that shits been broken for a while lmao

[whole mason]

oh, the sweetness of venth sin... I have to say this venth sin is so engaging! really love it.

[balmy condor]

It’s like 4:30 what are you doing

[onyx raptor]

What shiv tier set bug?

[balmy condor]

The pin

[onyx raptor]

Oh damn sry i'm blind

Well i guess it does bot affect me if i'm the only rogue in the raid

[glass tulip]

Classic

[balmy condor]

There’s been a couple good memes about me

That’s a good one

[glass tulip]

Sorry the crop on the first one made my eyes bleed

I open these up every once in a while, shit always has be crying

[balmy condor]

[glass tulip]

Going sin at 4pc...

🧢

[balmy condor]

Yeah and then venth existed

[glass tulip]

Me when I forget to hang a rupture

[balmy condor]

And also none of the fights that we thought would be sin fights ended up being sin fights

Which was fun

We were like oh maybe halondrus with the movement and then you couldn’t miss and sub slapped

And then like oh but maybe anduin cause the burst and just nope

And oh maybe lihuvim for the add damage

Which is like… kinda?

Idk

It’s a sad sin tier

[glass tulip]

I am actively recruiting a sub rogue to our guild to bench myself for anduin

I refuse to be a funnel andy

[hollow escarp]

that small adds still need to die

[limber lion]

[marble hemlock]

Most of them we can't post on Rh though

[balmy condor]

[glass tulip]

Well the memes, yes. The source videos, no

[limber lion]

@fleet anchor yeah, I added the CT thing in the pin just because people kept asking about it, but it's true that it's not super accurate. I'll edit the pin in a bit and make it clearer.

[glass tulip]

Tfw rogue does less damage than the tank

In a 12min NW

[balmy condor]

Not enough 4piece procs

[hollow escarp]

because they use shadow dance for cheap shots

[vestal wren]

i am not even sure if rogue is a mandatory choice or just a established pick

but lets us be happy that everyone else thinks we are the most op class in the game

[hollow escarp]

safe pick, since you don't need 4 damage dealers, 3 is enough

[glass tulip]

It is probably nice to have some control over funnel

As opposed to go wacky, go stupid SV, destro, dh

[vestal wren]

i had some discussions about it in our guild recently

as they think rogue is the most op shit in raid, pvp and m+

[glass tulip]

Also just noticed naowh did twice as much healing as the healer too lol

[vestal wren]

and i was like

[glass tulip]

Does your guild play the same game as us fuu?

[vestal wren]

yes, but what they say is just inherently reflecting the bubble outside of rogue

or how the more casual oriented playerbase precives balance

[glass tulip]

I think rogue is obviously really versatile in being a pretty preferable choice in at least 2/3 of the main types of content

So that does make it "strong"?

[vestal wren]

well they did specifically say OP

not strong

[glass tulip]

Well especially if the phrasing is OP then that is super odd, to me at least

[vestal wren]

i have no idea about pvp, so i can't comment on that

[glass tulip]

I feel like the ceiling of potential for rogue is far lower than the others

[vestal wren]

i don't think we are op in raid or m+, tho rogue def. is good in m+ for it versatility

[fast nacelle]

i miss the times, where you see a rogue topping wclogs at 1-2 bosses

[vestal wren]

it is for me a interessting conversation tho

[fast nacelle]

its seems like rogue can be okay.. but never be the gigachad

that bothers blizzard somehow

[glass tulip]

Ceverion typing another essay

[fast nacelle]

if rogue would be strong like in tomb

[vestal wren]

i think we did quite good in sanctum

[fast nacelle]

oh yeah.. on eye of the jailer and guardian!

[vestal wren]

(also to add, given most of them watch the mainstream content creators, i think it might reflect some of their opinions)

[fast nacelle]

not too bad though - i forgot. but that came after progression with bis gear

to be fair - fights like pantheon anduin and lords of dread bring us down quite a bit

on the more single target/cleave side we are doing quite good

[vestal wren]

just looking at the sanctum logs

all 3 rogue specs are on top

but even with that strong position, rogue was not seen as mandatory in any raid group

[fast nacelle]

the issue is - it always depends when you are looking at it
this is def post progression endgame farm with bis gear

[vestal wren]

it def. is interessting to observe trends over time

e.g. sub rogue was this tier super strong early mainly due to sylvanas daggers impact

and now we are mediocre because well... we actually get less value from gear upgrades due to them

[fast nacelle]

assa rogue with frost rank 5

[vestal wren]

frost did work rly well on sin/outlaw

[fast nacelle]

to be fair this tier rogue wasnt too bad aswell
dausegne double shadowstep
artificer cloak/shadowstep
lihuvim funneldmg/burst/cc

halondrus obviously... and rygelon/jailer

only useless bosses for rogue were pantheon (even there dmg was fine first id with assa necro)

anduin (cause others were stronger)

and dread - which is hc boss anyway.. even on mythic

other than that cloak/shadowstep gave a lot of bossuptime on some fights

[vestal wren]

anduin is one of the key fights of the raid

halondrus too

so rogue beeing rly good on one but terrible on the other one might make the position discussable

[fast nacelle]

rogue is still good for anduin - if you look at the kit

like - really good
it was just that you wanted to abuse other classes like sv

[vestal wren]

yes, but a lot of rogues are neverless

[fast nacelle]

yeah cause sv is the better subrogue

if there was no sv you would have 2-3 subrogues in

[muted condor]

whats the talents we shoudl take on 2 set? in raid 😛

[limber lion]

16.3k

It's honestly fine. Theotar is kinda ass unless you get super high uptime on Soothing Shade. I will likely resort to playing 3p Nadja everywhere and using a tome to swap to DD for Skolex/Dausegne/Rygelon

[rotund oak]

💦

[timid cloud]

What’s the 3p?

Poison Katar?

[drifting forge]

may i request a link

[glass tulip]

Wps

[timid cloud]

Oops, I meant 2nd.

[glass tulip]

Ls, lp

[timid cloud]

Hmm…

I guess that makes sense.

[limber lion]

Not on the pc atm

[vestal wren]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jd37HXq6jxhFD2rjcp7kpz

^ i am so free and post the one i found in your message history

[drifting forge]

thank you very much Fuu

[limber lion]

Yeah that's about right, just slap in the apl changes coming in tomorrow and it's around 16.3 :)

[solid venture]

mastery gems

[drifting forge]

I'm stuck just below 15k so was wondering how the hell you go to 16.3

[hollow escarp]

no DD on Halondrus or is 3p better there?

[rotund oak]

Mythic sigil 🤤

infexious says its not good though

there was some kind of comparison to iqd on a recent vid of his

kinda left me thinking

[ashen scroll]

Good or bad apl changes 👀

[zinc frost]

Good changes

[rotund oak]

elaborate plz

whats the new tech

[zinc frost]

Second pin

[rotund oak]

roger 👌

[willow eagle]

I just saw the newest pin

refrain from running more than one sin rogue

[ashen scroll]

Pog

Fugma, i can't go sin for crab now

2 rogues, 1 sin 1 sub

[glass tulip]

Unless you become the alpha sin

Force them to go Offspec instead

[ashen scroll]

Me and him are essentially equal players

[glass tulip]

Just be more confident

Or louder

[ashen scroll]

He swapped to it first so I'll just stick to sub i guess

Or i could grief my raid and play pirate xd

[glass tulip]

Find a log where you cast 1 more shiv than them and use it as proof you get more value

[ashen scroll]

LOOL

[rotund oak]

Alpha Assa mode activated

[vestal wren]

i think it works well, cev seems to use it successfully

[rotund oak]

thats what i think as well 😅

[vestal wren]

i mean, i encourage everyone to double check/test stuff. So if a content creator makes you thinking/testing stuff i think that's a good thing

[ashen scroll]

Probably very fight dependant tbh

5 min cd is weird to use

I bet it's bis for lords tho

[vestal wren]

a long cooldown can def. be a trade off on certain fight lenghs

[rotund oak]

iqd could potentially be better on a prolonged fight but thats relative as well

since u press sigil at start and hit again at 5min mark

the amount or raw dmg increase is ridiculous

[vestal wren]

you can get the bad effects of iqd

so keep that also in mind

[rotund oak]

yup,thats another disturbing side of that trinket

[empty hinge]

Saving meta for 1 minute to lineup with trinket

[limber lion]

Yeah go DD, I forgot HallyD exists

[ashen scroll]

If you have only enough time left in vendetta to do 1 finisher and 1 generator, would you just stall and last second finisher for extra bleed time? I encountered that scenario often this week

[limber lion]

No, you do not want to stall/pool/wait AT ALL during Vendetta.

You want to use 20 GCD's inside the 20 seconds, or as many as you possibly can

Losing out on one is a bigger loss than waiting for 1s to get 1s extra bleed time after Vend

Same goes for Shiv, do not pool during it.

[ashen scroll]

Ok pog ty

[rotund oak]

How many years have u been practicing to understand assassination to this extend u freak 😄

are u even human

[limber lion]

5ish years

Getting there

[zinc frost]

‘Getting there’

[limber lion]

Helps to research the spec actively every patch drop, doing a lot of sim work, practicing a lot in-game, analyzing logs a bunch and so on

[oak sky]

i just noticed it says 6s of garrote left

thats a lot of time on garrote

[limber lion]

Rupture as well

8s Rupture, pandemic is 3.6

6s Garrote, pandemic is 2.7

[oak sky]

garrote you cant ever really refresh that early anyway

because of the cd

[limber lion]

Yeh

Which is what I mentioned below

In the main takeaways

[oak sky]

lmao

i just hadnt noticed the timing was so long i got the gist of it anyway

[limber lion]

Yeah, the important part is taking notice of the "less than" on both statements

So it's completely fine to press garrote at 2s Vend/6s Garr, or 1s Vend/5s Gar

if the CP logic falls better for either

If you're at 3CP and at 2s, you should probably garrote

if you're at 4CP and at 2s, you should probably finish first then gar

[oak sky]

yeah right

[limber lion]

Just glad to have some real numbers for the overhang now

[oak sky]

yeah that really helps me honestly

[limber lion]

Instead of "idk just reapply everytime"

[oak sky]

any time theres set rules i feel like i can play pretty close to perfect

[limber lion]

"what if I just reapplied Rupture like 3s before?" "idk probably don't then"

Yep

My opener is 90% of the time the exact same

It changes a bit during the middle of an encounter though

Which is when it's more important to take notice of stuff like that

[oak sky]

one of the reasons i enjoyed sylv was because my rotation would be the same every pull

like you would have in your head timings of when stuff should happen

[limber lion]

but because of frost shards, the dps would also fluctuate 0-5K every way

[oak sky]

yeah

so annoying

[limber lion]

Same rotation everytime, but dps would just randomly jump up or down

not fun

[oak sky]

worst thing about the frost set for sure

[limber lion]

Glad our current tier set/DL combo has very little variance

[oak sky]

that and KA abuse

[limber lion]

Yeh fo sho

[oak sky]

of course i got to partake in some KA

[limber lion]

I never ever got KA

[subtle tundra]

i did in keys

[limber lion]

Missed out on some fun times I guess

Probably fun to pump hard af

[oak sky]

i got it on a few bosses but never a full clear

so i only had like 4 unethical logs

[limber lion]

Yeah, BF is pretty annoying tbh because it jumps around and sometimes you don't get any value out of BF, but your log still gets marked because a priest healed you

[oak sky]

yeah i have one of those this tier already

[limber lion]

I got BF for 0.3 seconds and my HC Rygelon log was marked because of that

0.3 seconds is not enough to get any value out of it

but it is enough to mark the log

BF is also pretty bad for us because we want to follow the Flag/Vend sync logic

Probably fine for NF/NL, but not at all for Venthyr

[oak sky]

the log is telling me on lihuvim i had 0% uptime on faeries with 1 cast

[subtle tundra]

fuck9ing priests

[raven knoll]

Hello, is it possible when tabing when spreading garrote to not target the relics?

[limber lion]

wait

I'm not #1 asp in heroic anymore

who dares

[oak sky]

probably gonna have to click my man

[raven knoll]

🥲

[oak sky]

i havent done heroic in a couple weeks

[limber lion]

Me neither

[oak sky]

also havent killed jailer yet

actually come to think of it

most of my kills were without tier

most of my logs that is

[limber lion]

Yeah okay I'm not gonna beat Lolae on heroic

Oh well

I've only ran heroics with full pugs of 250-260ilvl

[dense herald]

Is this advanced stuff updated in a guide? Can you point me towards somewhere to read up on this stuff?

[limber lion]

he did a full clear where everyone was 270+

[oak sky]

welp

[limber lion]

and got some PI's on some kills

oh wells

Kinda don't want to do any kills either, it would just ruin my median

ripperino

[oak sky]

my medians probably bad

dunno

i just want the halondrus mount and to do good dam in mythic prog

then hopefully get to do at least part of the raid on my mage in farm

[limber lion]

Mage

😓

[ashen scroll]

Mage is fun

[limber lion]

yeh

I used to play a mage alt

don't anymore though

[oak sky]

im just playing it for now

its a fun alt

[ashen scroll]

I played mage for 2 tiers before i swapped to rogue. Gotta say I prefer melee tho

[limber lion]

I'm not a big fan of casters

[oak sky]

i like melee a lot too but i think having a ranged alt is a nice change

[ashen scroll]

Ye the change of pace is fun

Everyone is going to alt dragon next xpac tho

[oak sky]

yep

[limber lion]

I've enjoyed MM hunter a bit in keys

Pretty dank rotation

[oak sky]

yeah man

rather spam blizzard and ice lance thanks

or aoe comboost

[ashen scroll]

Fatty 150k+ barrage

[oak sky]

i havent messed around with arcane much

[ashen scroll]

Its fun until you realize its entirely crit dependant and you're back to frost shard sin again

Then its Sadge

[oak sky]

im probably gonna put together some weak auras for mage tomorrow/today after i wake up after i sleep and then i can play better on it

[limber lion]

Okay the implement Koji landed on was Rupture<8, Vend<3; Garrote<7, Vend<3

I'll change the pin to reflect that

[oak sky]

❤️

[limber lion]

Pretty much the same thing, just offsetting the garrote to have the same 3s condition on Vendetta

[limber lion]

What do you mean?

I've updated the pins that should give you all the information you need. Unless you're talking about advanced simming, which is a different topic.

Not sure if guides reflect the advanced mechanics of 4p, but the pins should have all the info you need.

[dense herald]

Yeah I’ve had a good read -
I’m just a bit confused though about the whole pandemic refreshing thing so maybe you could help clarify?
So I get if you’re reapplying you do it in pandemic, but wouldn’t you always want to cast a garrote/rupture on the last 2 globals of vend (regardless of pandemic) to get the longest possible buffed dot?

[limber lion]

That's what the pin is literally talking about

The second pin

And when you want to do that

You want to reapply Rupture if its remaining duration is 8s or less when Vendetta has 3s or less left.

And you want to reapply Garrote if its remaining duration is 7s or less when Vendetta has 3s or less left.

You do not want to reapply Rupture if its duration is 9s or longer.

This means that if your Rupture is at 9s when your Vendetta is at 3s, you would want to use 1-2 different abilities before reapplying Rupture, when it drops to 7-8 seconds

However you do not want to hold, stall or pool during Vendetta - ever.

[dense herald]

So if rupture is on 10s and vend has 1 global left and you’re on 5 combo points, and garrote is nicely refreshed, what would you use that combo on, env/CT?

[limber lion]

CT or Env, you follow normal pandemic rules for CT

[hollow dirge]

If ct is within pandemic, ct

[dense herald]

That’s just what surprises me I thought no matter what you’d want to end with the highest duration of rupture on the last global of vend given it’s damage is so high, - regardless of pandemic

Handy to know

[limber lion]

Yeah but you lose a lot of value from constantly reapplying Rupture as it doesn't do any damage instantly

You doing Rup - Muti - Muti - Rup

is a massive loss

You're just wasting finishers and combo points constantly reapplying Rupture

[dense herald]

Yeah okay that makes sense

[limber lion]

Ruptures duration is like 16s at max during Vendetta, meaning that you would literally have to use b2b Ruptures to get into your scenario that you specified

which is just not optimal

[dense herald]

So a global spent elsewhere is more valuable than say getting 5 extra seconds of a buffer rupture if you refreshed it at 10-11s

[limber lion]

Yes

You getting 4s extra rupture outside of Vendetta for the cost of 4-5 combo points is just not worth it

compared to using a finisher during Vendetta

[hollow dirge]

You can look at it this way- The gain of the hasted buff is energy post vendetta, energy you use so you can do more finishers. But wasting finishers when you already have benefit of 9 s rupture , means you’re wasting the gain you got with it in the first place

[dense herald]

Yeah sweet makes sense 👌

Ty guys

[limber lion]

Gl

[tacit pebble]

im really enjoying the venthyr sin playstyle, nice breath of fresh air from the spec being the same for 2 xpacs lol

4p is pretty cool

[limber lion]

Yeah same, I love it.

[brazen zodiac]

good morning

4pc rocks

[viscid spear]

It's Ashkitten - Mal'ganis

[hybrid vale]

4pc alone is quite cool

[viscid spear]

having a naming convention to your characters

I mean, who would do that?

[echo geyser]

yeah sin kinda likes all stats

dunno about vers but its prob not bad

[winged moss]

what buff are we using on cache trinket with assa??

[subtle tundra]

axe

[echo geyser]

!cache

[prisma monolith]

Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand

[echo geyser]

does any class in game even use the sword?

[limber lion]

Sword is actually better for us in some cases

But it's easier to just recommend Axe :--)

[echo geyser]

u up to no good cev

[spice spire]

Cev been up to no good

Looking for demonic .x% gains

But you gotta respect the grustle

The man’s an innovator

[vestal wren]

huh, did cev find another increase?

[spice spire]

Sword recommendation inc on cache, fuu

(I’m joking)

[karmic crystal]

Enh shamans

[subtle tundra]

dhs in st

[spice spire]

Actually?

[vestal wren]

unsure, maybe casters would if they used it

[subtle tundra]

nope

but i do a bit of trolling

[spice spire]

You troll

[subtle tundra]

cry about it

[spice spire]

I saw ur anduin p3 I know

[subtle tundra]

afk assignment

[spice spire]

“Just sit there man”

[vast loom]

during vendetta your pandemic windows change, this WA https://wago.io/rk2kEs76d will change the pandemic window based on vendetta.

yeah i didnt either its a game changer for my vendetta windows

lol

[strange python]

Bruh my weak aura just shows non 4p pandemic during vend

[spice spire]

Yeah, you gotta adjust

[vast loom]

make sure you test it. when i was editing my WAs it was a lot more finniky than i expected

[ebon notch]

@snow crag 👀

[empty hinge]

I don’t get any haste\crit gear in raid

RL says: you play sub on most fights

[rotund oak]

ur RL is dangerously ignorant

[limber lion]

That's not correct. Pandemic within Vendetta window halves, so Garrote pandemic is 2.7s and Rupture is 3.6s

[winged moss]

is it must have to align shiv with vendetta?

[limber lion]

No.

[winged moss]

or after opener i just pop shiv on cd

[limber lion]

Feel free to send Shiv on CD. It should allign pretty well with every other Vendetta if you send it on CD

[winged moss]

thx

[royal lantern]

so just like most RL lol

"play the FotM spec!!!! Idc if you actually will perform worse for most fights and that dmg is not even a problem for us, wowhead log comparisons said it does 0,0004%more dmg!"

[rotund oak]

cant argue with that

[limber lion]

Our RL is pretty tryhard, man spends ungodly amounts of time prepping bosses, and because of that gets frustrated when people show up without researching stuff beforehand

Which makes sense to be fair

[royal lantern]

there is a difference bettwen a RL that prepares really good and is frustraited it the raiders dont prepare at all

[limber lion]

But we're allowed to play whatever specs we need, unless it's super omega int

[royal lantern]

and the RL that shits on your spec choice when you perform good lol

[limber lion]

"when you perform good" is a good addition

[rotund oak]

Stuff evolves,even if u spend all the time in the world,they still evolve

[royal lantern]

RL asked me why i dont play sub like the other rogue, said i do more dmg then the sub, never mentioned it again

[limber lion]

Because that's not necessarily true for everyonr

:p

[rotund oak]

models change,thats reality 😄

[hybrid vale]

Do rupture and garrote snapshot with vendetta?

[limber lion]

My choice of spec has never been questioned because of how well I play it.

[limber lion]

All bleeds do

They snapshot when you apply Vendetta and everytime you reapply the bleed

[subtle tundra]

i can play all 3 and hate my life doing it

[hybrid vale]

Wait so I gotta reapply it inside the window and at the end?

[limber lion]

You just reapply normally following normal pandemic logic

But force a reapplication towards the end

[past bobcat]

Can you play sin rogue with sub stats?

[hybrid vale]

Oh ok so while it’s up its fine to have a pre existing rupture

[royal lantern]

no, if you do that daddy ion will come to your home and kick your pets

[rotund oak]

Dont think anyone can question u for ur specc as a rank 1 assa logger 😅

[hybrid vale]

But you can have a 30% rupture after it’s over

That makes sense

[rotund oak]

only a madman would do

[limber lion]

You can, but it's definitely recommend to sim yourself and change gems/enchants/rings/necks accordingly

[royal lantern]

we had a surv hunter that was in the top10 for 2expacs in a row and people STILL questioned him lol

[hybrid vale]

CAuse 1/17 isn’t that great

I mean it is kinda great but these 16 others could be role playing furries in the raid who knows

[rotund oak]

well ''questioning'' gets two meanings,u can literally question him how does he do that or u can be (insert offensive word)and just dismiss his ability to be top 10

[past bobcat]

And with the venth build still going duskwalkers?

[hybrid vale]

Ya

On the ring

And the leggo on wrist ( I think it depends on what your set up is tbh I see unity in different slots for different cats)

Unity

You should grab Zinsignia second, it looks better in some situations

[deft scroll]

hey guys. do i understand the pin correctly? i hold vendetta till flag is rdy?

[fair vector]

New to rogue. Just want to confirm I understand the "pandemic window". I can reapply bleeds or poisons when they hit 30% of time left and it will be added onto the new dot without losing uptime or resources. That correct?

[limber lion]

Correct.

[limber lion]

Correct.

!pd

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[ebon notch]

btw cev have you noticed that its kinda rough to overhang all 3 bleeds without decent mut rng?

like rupture/garrote is w.e but getting the CT also

it feels like i need to stall just before 3 seconds to make everything line up

it especially feels rough if you just pandemic'd a bleed before you get to your 3s overhang window

[pure moth]

I noticed that.. doesnt happen often though

[strange python]

The CT isn't that important to overhang because it's so short and because it doesn't give the energy regen

And depending on Mut rng yeah, it just might not happen

[ebon notch]

its for the damage

CT pumps

[strange python]

To get CT to actually overhang you'd have to basically not have garrote and rupture be your last casts, or at least have rupture at 4s and then get the Mut crits. I'm not positive it's optimal to always get a CT, though obviously nice when you can. Crits would have to line up

[limber lion]

Read the pin again.

CT upkeep does not matter and you don't need to reapply it for the overhang at all.

CT dropping is completely fine.

You never want to stall during Vendetta, just spam buttons

[strange python]

Tbh you'll probably lose DPS trying to force that last CT by not getting a longer garr rup

[subtle tundra]

just play better bucko

its that easy

[limber lion]

You will.

[ebon notch]

misread it

[ebon notch]

you could always rupture>mut>garrote>CT

but thats rng with mut proc

[limber lion]

Yeah but this only works if your Rupture is within pandemic range there, as you do not want to force the reapplication of it 4s before.

[ebon notch]

yes

[lean fossil]

@limber lion during vendetta what's our pandemic timers for rup, gar and ct?

[gusty mirage]

3.6s for rupture, 2.7 for garrote, should be around 2s for CT

[lean fossil]

ty

[brazen zodiac]

oxi so cool

[limber lion]

and so hot

🥵

[gusty mirage]

[brazen zodiac]

you too

🤤

[gusty mirage]

TRUE

Cev's beyond a snack, he's a whole ass meal

[brazen zodiac]

just a meal? brother he a god damn buffet

[gusty mirage]

I finally got enough valor to get my jeweled signet to 268

[brazen zodiac]

lmfao

when did u even get it was it the last day

[gusty mirage]

it was saturday morning

you told me I have a court come

and I was like nah and you insisted lmao

[brazen zodiac]

oh right

i forgot

arent u glad im such a persistent little bitch

[gusty mirage]

my other gear is stuck at 262 because I'm out of valor

[brazen zodiac]

lol i just upgraded a cloak yesterday, think im in all 272+ now

i lucekd out with getting 4 mythic tier pieces haha

all that luck gone never gettin 278 phial now tho

[gusty mirage]

I'd rather have a 272 phial and 4 pieces of mythic raid gear

tbh

wasn't worth

well it was, because everything else was terrible

[balmy condor]

Nice IQD bozo

[brazen zodiac]

ngl phial hasnt simmed high for me at 272 cuz i already have a 278 decanter lul

[gusty mirage]

nice cock bozo

[brazen zodiac]

iqd like 150+ tho zzzz

[balmy condor]

Thanks

[brazen zodiac]

sup whisp

[gusty mirage]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bwGk2vyGpMQqa6dMnHLRR4

[balmy condor]

My dick after oxi talked to me

[brazen zodiac]

now what if i told you