assassination

[clear finch]

or were griefing

[zinc frost]

Yeah that’s just rough

[normal mist]

You gotta be pretty stupid

To do that

[pseudo hamlet]

Maybe they thought that they will be getting random part of the tier set or something

[mighty basalt]

quick question, is Sepsis when playing sin supposed to trigger shadowblades ?

[normal mist]

Yes

You have unity right?

After sepsis final dmg you proc A.R and S.B

[mighty basalt]

ah right haha, just swaped over and got abit confused

thanks!

[normal mist]

For like 10 seconds i believe

[mighty basalt]

yea, thought i was getting 2set bonus from sub for some reason

[normal mist]

[trim cairn]

How tf am I simming 1.5k dps lower on dungeonslice with Decanter of Anima-Charged Winds 278 ilvl and Ticking Sack of Terror ilvl 272 than with pvp trinkets xd

[limber lion]

link the sim

[trim cairn]

How do I link it?

[pseudo hamlet]

ctrl+c -> ctrl+v

[trim cairn]

Oh like copy paste the import data

[pseudo hamlet]

I mean, copy paste the link here 😄

[limber lion]

No

You just copy the link

and paste it here

[trim cairn]

I sim with the simulationcraft exe

[limber lion]

just like you would any other website xdf

[trim cairn]

Should I be using raidbots

[limber lion]

yes

[trim cairn]

ah

[limber lion]

you should never use the local tool unless you're an advanced user

and doing some very specific stuff

[pseudo hamlet]

I remember my PC crashing when I tried almost every gem combination possible when I had shitload of sockets with simcraft.exe

[trim cairn]

I miss shadowcraft

[gray crest]

https://tenor.com/view/ratatouille-memories-flashback-delicious-gourmet-gif-4971015

That's a name I haven't heard in a while

[potent dagger]

With the shift back to venthyr i'm wondering which trinket to pursue :x

[pseudo hamlet]

Phial is always good 🙂

(and the ones that sim higher)

[limber lion]

Trinket choices don't really change, other than IQD gaining a lot more value

Sigil + Phial still one of the better combos

[trim cairn]

ye on raidbots I gain 715 dps so it gave a wildly different result than the local tool

715 dps gain vs pvp trinkets was pretty depressing though ngl

[limber lion]

lol

[trim cairn]

255 pvp trinkets (cc removal + the nuke) vs Ticking Sack of Terror 272 and Decanter 278 xd

[pseudo hamlet]

How are we using the Sigil without the 4PC? Should I try to stack/macro it with Vendetta? I mean like - wait one minute more if the kill won't happen before 6,5 min?

[limber lion]

You should always use it together with Vendetta

And of course using it 20s before a fight ends, if that happens before a Vendetta pops up again

[gusty adder]

Would anyone care to look over these logs? I feel like im doing most things correctly, bu cant understand how quite a few is doing more than 1,5k dps more than me with simular gear/ilvl and killtimers.

• I had a few decent parses in that run, even though I know I made a few blunders, but I feel like im lacking the last edge - and cant for the life of me figure out why
  https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TWj2vwnFVpPMa8Qc/#fight=27&type=damage-done&source=1

[limber lion]

You have a lot of blunders throughout this kill, not just a few

You don't follow the logic of Flag - finisher/mfd/finisher - Vend after the opener at all

One time you did this, essentially wasting the MFD entirely

One time you did this, essentially wasting the first 7s of Vendetta and missing out on the haste snapshot throughout

You do a lot of small blunders here and there. You're just missing consistency

The bottom one is the worst example because you 1. miss out on the Flag haste and snapshot potential, 2. you use Vanish outside of the Flag window so you don't benefit from the CP gain of MA at all

[gusty adder]

Yea true - guess it was worse than I thought.

[trim cairn]

How do you get it to be linear like this and not just a wall of text like this https://gyazo.com/f73fe8902f52dff4c276272c212c6f9c

[hollow escarp]

I actually prefer the wall of text

[trim cairn]

https://gyazo.com/568c03e481ba8d6dbeb0c5e5f71ab323 this is on those tabs

[limber lion]

Yes

[trim cairn]

oh

nvm

[limber lion]

[trim cairn]

I'm fucking autistic

[limber lion]

for sure

anyways

@gusty adder otherwise it looks good throughout the entire kill, you just need to be more consistent with the windows

The entire build revolves around the snapshotting and if you don't abuse it every single time, there's no reason to play Venthyr

We cleared heroic yesterday as well and I killed HallyD and did around 15.7k dps

We have somewhat similar gear, so that should be your goal to reach

Hoping to see 15k+ next week

[gusty adder]

Thats like 1,1k dps higher than highest public log tho

[limber lion]

Sure is

You have all the tools in your toolbelt, just gotta get more consistent with it

[gusty adder]

And you're telling me, that apart from you not fucking up the vendt/flag/mfd windows, you play much the same?

[gusty adder]

yea, thanks alot

[limber lion]

Well it's hard to look at a log and know how you play the actual encounter

it just shows us what buttons you press in terms of rotation

[gusty adder]

Will take some time off on dummy before next raid

[limber lion]

but there's still other things to consider

Like movement, mechanics, downtime and whatnot

This is my damage breakdown for abusing every window properly

This is yours

As you can see, your bleeds are lagging a bit behind

Melee and poison pretty much the same

but bleeds are just a bit short

[gusty adder]

And I garrote too much apparently (considering casts vs rupture in the two) ?

[limber lion]

Well that's hard to say honestly

I wouldn't think about that too much

Just refresh in pandemic normally and you're chillin

My encounter was also quite a bit shorter than yours, so the uptime looks different

[hollow escarp]

yo, there's one public assa log on Halondrus

[gusty adder]

Yea. Feel like im overlapping garrote/rupture before pandemic almost every vendetta window tho - but I guess im meant to?

[limber lion]

Not during Vendetta

you only overlap the very last casts

to force the overhang

[gusty adder]

thats what i mean ye

[limber lion]

yup

[gusty adder]

Do you have any videos of your kills, and even better with a trufi-GCD tracker on?

[limber lion]

I do not unfortunately

I do have the thing showing up which buttons I press, but I very rarely stream nowadays because of my bad pc

[gusty adder]

Another question - in this example, I must have fucked up my MfD timing on the cast inbetween the two first vendettas, but is that SO bad, or do I still get the "full" value here, or loosing out on a bunch? I mean, obviously I shouldnt have popped vendetta just before the teleport/shield phase and loosing a few seconds of uptime, but disregarding that I guess

[limber lion]

It's not that bad, but it's definitely worse

But not that much

very miniscule

[ripe gulch]

cev, which absolutely bis trinkets should i farm

the 2 single best trinkets

[limber lion]

IQD and Phial

[ripe gulch]

iqd better than xy'mox bleed?

[gray crest]

Also what about sigil

[mossy mulch]

have we an assasination spreadsheet ?

[bleak sky]

pinned

[mossy mulch]

oh sorry, thanks!

[trim raptor]

How do you avoid getting execute/mana with iqd then when bosses are low?

Ive been using sigil over iqd for that reason

[mossy mulch]

How much dps do I gain with windfury totem? anyone knows?

[gusty adder]

Targeting yourself with the macro should do just that afaik

[bleak sky]

pinned in #wow-general

[late birch]

Just me or does Spiteful feel like the worst affix for assa D:

[limber lion]

A lot, the Xymox trinket is not great in ST. Only good for padding

[limber lion]

Spiteful is super great as Necro, a bunch of free resets

[limber lion]

Sigil is on-par with IQD, they do different things and work for different fight lengths

IQD only as Venthyr

[late birch]

yeah thats sick, but neverget a chance to stealth :\

[limber lion]

You don't need stealth

Stealth is not that big of a gain or necessity as you might think

[late birch]

I guess. I played MA last key so jsut felt bad that a talent going to waste

[limber lion]

yep

[strange python]

Iqd over sigil?

[limber lion]

Eventually yes

[strange python]

Gross

[ebon notch]

I can upload a vod if you'd like. I got a bunch from our mythic kills yesterday for review

[ebon notch]

Sigil is only 1 DPS increase over mythic cache for me

[limber lion]

That's a good thing

that means you can just play the sigil

[ebon notch]

But it also means I can only get it in vault

I can't argue for it off loot council cause everyone wants it

[gusty adder]

Would love to see that

[ebon notch]

I even have trufigcd installed

I'll DM you when I get it uploaded

[gusty adder]

Sounds so good, thanks alot mate! 🙂

[glass tulip]

trufi is a lifesaver in vod review

[gusty mirage]

You’re a lifesaver

[spice spire]

He’d be more of a lifesaver if he succumb to anvil gaming

[gusty mirage]

Why do you hate him

[spice spire]

Bro wdym

He’s be climbing wr

Anvil will he world 20th trust

[glass tulip]

well right now im funding my character boost so i can learn to play warrior or something lol

need a new character to play in weekend raid

[spice spire]

Learn to play warrior

Both specs pretty simple

Even this brain dead egg grasped it

[gusty mirage]

Button light up, press it

Also you’re morally obliged to say nothing but “blululululu” over comms while bladestorming

[glass tulip]

hm can I get a sound byte of that

[gusty mirage]

Yeah I got you, next time I zug zug keys I’ll strim it and clip it for you

[spice spire]

Warrior also stupid fun in keys

It’s weird having aoe cooldowns

[gusty mirage]

Pro tip, stand in your spear regardless of what’s on the ground

You’re a warrior now, act like it. Mechanics don’t matter

[spice spire]

AMEN

[glass tulip]

[gusty mirage]

I’ve died more in the 5 keys I’ve run on my warrior than I died all season on my rogue

[spice spire]

Yes man

[gusty mirage]

The one spires I ran I was 9 of the 10 deaths in the key

[spice spire]

Just something about ground effects

They start to not exist

All I see is meter

[gusty mirage]

Just die by the sword and blululululululululu

[spice spire]

“Rallying this”

“Why?”

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

Insta -100 iq for anyone playing warrior iswtg

[bleak sky]

buddy they don't have enough to drop 100 iq

[gusty mirage]

[glass tulip]

what about 6

DS is a thing quake

[spice spire]

Can’t run it

Not enough brain cells

Sorry king

[muted ivy]

[spice spire]

5 max

[regal cape]

Just spec your brain for deeper strat

[muted ivy]

Respec: -1 to wisdom +1 to intelligence

Confirm (Y/N)

[spice spire]

Can’t have -1 wisdom. Has to be at least 0, can’t even do that

[muted ivy]

bro what do you think Respec means

[spice spire]

(Can’t lose what you don’t have is the joke)

[bleak sky]

guess they're at 0 int going into -1

[ripe gulch]

for mythic vigilant guardian

necro sin or kyrian sub and tunnel boss?

[muted ivy]

doesn't matter, boss flops as long as you do mechanics right

go with whatever you're gonna be using for the boss after lol

[spice spire]

^

[gusty mirage]

Sure you can, finishing at 5 is okay

[spice spire]

You coming on to me?

[gusty mirage]

No shot, hearth out after while they death run and be like “lol gotta change covenants sorry”

[muted ivy]

i keep getting this OutOfBounds error when i finish above 5 tho

[open arrow]

so on lords your suppose to do like normal 2 target rotation right? just singel target one of them and keep bleeds on both of them including crimson tempest? and that's the same during entire encounter right?

[autumn frost]

Yes

Especially with the change. Save cds for the cloud burst window.

[thorn fjord]

with DW vent should be up every cloud burst

vend*

[open arrow]

and you should still use dusk on it if you dont have 4 set yet? or is zoldyck better?

[spice spire]

Zoldyck’s generally better without 4set

[brazen zodiac]

good morning

[bleak sky]

gm gm

[autumn frost]

I thought it would be dashing is generally better. Unless there's aN important execute phase without fourset and double lego

[limber lion]

With 2p and without 4p Zoldy is better

on 2t

[normal mist]

How diff are dreads and ryg hc?

From normal

[limber lion]

Not much

Rygelon is a bit harder with soaks

but Lords doesn't really change in any way

[drifting cloud]

yeah rygelon isnt really a boss in normal

[normal mist]

So I'd say it is easier to pug dreads hc than ryg right?

[limber lion]

Well, both are a bit aids

Lords is awful because of the Among Us phase

which cannot be auto-solved with the Pieces weakaura anymore

And Rygelon is a bit aids because it requires coordination

[normal mist]

They are my last chance at 4/4 this week 🥲

[limber lion]

But yeh Lords is the same fight

everything just hurts more

[normal mist]

About 4/4... when we vendetta, all we do is refresh dots on vendetta target + CT, and re apply them 1 last time before vendetta expires right?

Even in aoe/cleave scenarios?

[brazen zodiac]

the voting system weakaura works pretty pog tho in pugs for lords

[thin imp]

I think that explains why WA didnt work yesterday

[brazen zodiac]

patched.

[thin imp]

WA wise or blizzard wise? xD

[brazen zodiac]

well i think blizzard just patched it is all, unsure what you mean by WA wise or blizzard wise haha

i've heard of blizzard killin other weakauras in the past so

[rocky sluice]

hey guys, which nercolord soulbind do you all recomend for Lords of dread?

[thin imp]

wondering if you meant that blizzard patched it so that WA doesnt work anymore or that the WA creator patched it to make it work again, clear now tho!

[brazen zodiac]

oh haha, they said they'll take a look at it once they actually fight the boss this week

unsure if they did it already or not

[thorn fjord]

Any of the boiz willing to take a look at my top gear to see if theres anything i'm missing to squeeze out some more ST dps? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aRKZaqhWcH4AGRfZQjcF4g

custome APL is for haste tea

[kindred rapids]

yeah you need a better weapon

[pure moth]

What other trinkets do you have?

I thought bells was not one to go for .

[spice spire]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fdh8xQe7cEweShKCmCDU9E

+9

You need better trinkets for sure

[ocean cipher]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[spice spire]

Earth breaker is good, but phial, totem, lot of decent 262-272 options

Even IQD

[pure moth]

You would think sgt and phial would sim better on a patchwerk sim

[spice spire]

At 252 fusion amp is pretty good

[peak bobcat]

What soulbind do we use for panth mythic?

[spice spire]

Heirmir or marileth are fine.
Leaning toward heirmir. But whatever sims best

[thorn fjord]

Fusion amp is showing lower

[spice spire]

(+9 is within variance)

[thorn fjord]

Guess this is the best i can do with what i have currently... did the same thing with Sub and was able to get 1.3k more out of sims with Kyr still using both Sylv daggers

[spice spire]

Well yeah

Sylv daggers are really really good for sub

[thorn fjord]

Thought it would be the same for both specs

TiL

[spice spire]

Nooooooooooi

Deeper daggers also affects blight

[thorn fjord]

i did not know that

[spice spire]

It’s shadow damage

Also more finishers on sub = more banshee’s blight

But there’s also the dagger swap tech

[thorn fjord]

Yeah i saw that today

you swap at less than 25% or something like that?

[spice spire]

Ye

[autumn frost]

Can you explain to me the rationale?

[spice spire]

Of?

[autumn frost]

Do i need to macro weaponswaps?

[spice spire]

Are you playing sub?

[autumn frost]

The dagger swap tech.

[spice spire]

As in subtlety

Not subterfuge 😛

[autumn frost]

Occasionally

Ill go check the sub channel

[spice spire]

Yep

Tl;dr banshee’s blight stacks quick below 25% and then you’re doing things

[autumn frost]

Thx

[gusty mirage]

I hate this emote

Make it stop

[thorn fjord]

[spice spire]

No

[viscid spear]

[fleet anchor]

Don't need to weapon swap if you can't get a Mythic dagger drop

[sturdy merlin]

Hey guys is raidbots up to date with the new venthyr stuff ?

[fleet anchor]

😛

[fleet anchor]

There are some small changes that still need to be added to the APL, but nothing that would change the evaluations of anything

[sturdy merlin]

So sims are accurate enough right now ?

[viscid spear]

So we're really living the "friendship ended with Dreamweaver, now Theotar is my best friend" meme?

[vestal wren]

yes

[sturdy merlin]

Good good thanks

[limber lion]

The rotation is scuffed, so just stick to the rotation in the pins and always sync Flag/Vendetta together

[viscid spear]

My 999 score is off-putting

[spice spire]

I’m ready for the move to be over so I can help people with keys more

[modest glen]

How long should you hold shiv to line up with vendetta/flag?

If the 3rd one is like 10 sec off

[strange python]

Rhen hold it

Then

Its a 25 sek cd. So you should hold it for every vend.flag

[viscid spear]

You'd think a 263ilvl would be more enticing, unless that's considered low for 15s

[spice spire]

262s drop from 15s so in the public’s eyes

That’s 10 ilvl too low

[viscid spear]

+10 Streets been sitting at 1/1/1 for 8 minutes

[spice spire]

[pure moth]

Ill never pug a streets again... was awful

[kindred rapids]

I've only done it once but it didn't seem too bad

[pure moth]

Its not bad at all... its just the people i got.

[spice spire]

Eh, I kinda hate streets

[subtle tundra]

whats pandemic for ct??

cant do math

:((

[timid cloud]

30% of 12. I’m actually struggling…

Ya boy also bad at math…

[viscid spear]

I preferred History in school

[limber lion]

4 is fine

[spice spire]

3.6, or as Cev said, 4.

[gusty mirage]

everytime you fail to maximize pandemic, ion buffs warriors

so get to practicing

[subtle tundra]

[unborn needle]

So looking over parses on Warcraft logs, it's hard to find many, if any Assasination Rogues anywhere in the top 50/100 in any fights in this raid. Is Sub really that far ahead that even the top performing Assas rogues barely make it on the list?

[limber lion]

Sub is ahead on some bosses, so a lot of top end players tend to swap to Sub

[muted ivy]

Sub gets a lot more dmg than Sin from Sylv daggers, but the gap should close more the later the tier goes

[limber lion]

Assassination is not that far behind honestly

And there's some big boy assassination players who are private logging

[bleak sky]

easier to perform on sub;
people not aware of venth tech;
community perception;
private logs (cev)

[muted ivy]

but ya shouldn't be a huge difference, especially for non-RtWF guilds

[hollow river]

Sub still sims over 1k dps more than sin for me

[loud hearth]

With the changes to LoD (100% damage) is it worth to play Zoldycks and hold Vendetta for each dmg phase or play Duskwalkers and just send Vendetta on CD

[hollow river]

Dusk

[unborn needle]

I did my search using heroic pulls, since a lot of Mythic pulls are still just top end guilds only with a limited sample size. I also excluded anything but rogues. Basically just walk after walk of sub rogues for all bosses. Once you get to page two or theee, you might see one or two sin rogues.

[hollow river]

You should be able to line Vend up with the amp phases mostly

Depending on how long amongus takes your raid

[loud hearth]

would you hold on pull?

[hollow river]

No

[muted ivy]

if you use Zold would you hold on pull?

[spice spire]

Probably?

I ? Because I’m not totally sure

But I’d think so

[kindred rapids]

Did you know it's only 3 if you ct at 4 cp?

[spice spire]

Yes

[kindred rapids]

Your WA won't tell you that though

[spice spire]

I place it at 2.9

And 2 for Vendetta. No real perfect way to fix that, my WA doesn’t highlight CT for pandemic tho

[kindred rapids]

So many people fail to pandemic for this reason 😩

1.5 w/ vendetta

I've modified my WAs to use CP

[spice spire]

Based on 4, sure.
But I did light modification 🙂

[coral sierra]

my ww monk sucks at single target, but is oh so juicy at aoe. Is rogue the way to go?

[spice spire]

Is rogue the way to go for what?

[coral sierra]

single target dps*

[oak sky]

Casual flex

[kindred rapids]

NO

demo lock is the way to go

you're welcome

[kindred rapids]

Private logging is cringe

[coral sierra]

demo lock with PI*

[limber lion]

it is what it is

[kindred rapids]

There were only 83 sin logs on dassusy when we killed it

rank 17 was only a 79% 😩

It's getting lonely out there for sin players

[bleak sky]

so raid environment?

demo is not really playable with no PI in raid right

though they don't need any buffs to absolutely shit on rogues in M+

[unborn needle]

So apparently all the top Sin players log privately to even make the warcraft logs make sense and match up with the consensus that the two specs are close.

[muted ivy]

well a lot of top rogues will just go with Sub even if it is close

[oak sky]

The problem is more community perception i think

Usually a lot of people like sin

[muted ivy]

• Sub can pad a lot easier than Sin

[unborn needle]

I think people want to think Sin is closer/better than it is. Atleast from what the data is currently showing.

[limber lion]

lmao

ok you believe that

[muted ivy]

Warcraftlogs isn't empirical

[frosty cedar]

sub is 4 plebs

[muted ivy]

it can be heavily influenced by community perceptions

[oak sky]

Build change means a lot of sin players arent gonna be doing as much damage as they could be doing if they havent adapted yet

[kindred rapids]

ppl still suck at using 4pc

[oak sky]

And some people dont have it yet

[kindred rapids]

it does so much dmg though

[hollow river]

[spice spire]

First night with it last night, I know I did.
Didn’t help I was also rling cuz our rl had to offrole last night

[muted ivy]

the earlier in the tier the more sub is favored tbh

[oak sky]

Its funny because starege is literally me rn i have dark circles rn

[hollow river]

You get 4p this week bro

I feel it

[oak sky]

Next week

[loud hearth]

Am I correct that with 4set, all pandemic timers in Vendetta are just 50% of regular? Just updating my WAs

[hollow river]

[hollow river]

Ye

[oak sky]

Unless i can find it off normal anduin on sunday

[muted ivy]

i feel it

[spice spire]

Any other bosses you need mister agreon?

[oak sky]

My token is just really bricked it is what it is

[spice spire]

Guild doing alt normal on Saturday iirc

[oak sky]

Nah ive already done lords

Those are the 2

[spice spire]

F

[muted ivy]

Zenith token is straight TRASH

never drops

[oak sky]

Yeah p much

[spice spire]

Our zenny is pretty nice rn

[hollow river]

Get more monks and warriors

I have 5p

[muted ivy]

meanwhile fuckin Mystic/Dreadful

[solid venture]

does anyone have numbers on xymox cache trinket with 4p? better to save the haste proc for vendetta /flag or just send when axe comes up?

[spice spire]

!cache

[prisma monolith]

Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand

[spice spire]

Oddly enough

Our mystic has been hard fucked

Dreadful looking crisp tho

[hollow river]

Our GM is organizing little funnels for whatever particular bosses people need

[kindred rapids]

What do you mean?

[spice spire]

I am too

[oak sky]

Thanks for the offer tho :)

[hollow river]

Trying to get our new hpal and Druid pieces

[oak sky]

Always appreciated

[spice spire]

Quakewar comes in for anduin to gift helms

[hollow river]

[bleak sky]

HUGE warrior

[viscid spear]

We all have at least 2pc now, don't we?

[spice spire]

And he’s in for lihuvim because every single zenith person has hands

[spice spire]

On our shard, yes

[hollow river]

My warr is still 1p

[muted ivy]

we've started swapping people that can't trade H tier tokens to try and help people

[spice spire]

Warr is 2p

My rogue is a rat 4p

Lfr legs

[viscid spear]

I do like 2pc

[timid cloud]

Lol

[kindred rapids]

This doesn't do anything unless they can swap to alts that can trade

[hollow river]

Yep

More people=more tier chance anyway

[spice spire]

It drops the prospect of picking a dead piece of you have a weird number like 23 tho

[strange silo]

u guys play with 4p? kek 2 piece is the way to go till catalyst

[muted ivy]

i mean like dropping people out of the group

[hollow river]

You kinda want 20 people

[spice spire]

30% for a third

[hollow river]

At least

[kindred rapids]

does nothing

[spice spire]

Is odd

[muted ivy]

???? to make sure it can be traded it does

[hollow river]

I mean

[muted ivy]

or at least the best chance to be traded

[kindred rapids]

no

[viscid spear]

I do feel bad, I accidently initiated the achievement on HC Lihuvim

[hollow river]

Your entire raid will get less tier lmao

Overall

[kindred rapids]

every player adds 10% chance to get tier and has 10% chance to loot it

it evens out

[hollow river]

Better to just let people loot their own heroic pieces

[bleak sky]

there's no point in getting pieces from a token that's already fully 4p

[spice spire]

^

[bleak sky]

so if you can drop players and not fuck with the guaranteed drops, do it

[spice spire]

Ngl that was pretty funny

[muted ivy]

if someone has 4pc and can't trade it's a dead token basically

[spice spire]

“Wtf is neo?!”

[hollow river]

Ye if it doesn’t fuck with the guaranteed drops sure

[kindred rapids]

Even if a token is useless to you, dropping ppl does not help your overall chance to get useful tier

[muted ivy]

as long as you don't drop under 20 ya

[spice spire]

Not everyone runs exactly 20

[viscid spear]

I wanted to drop jeeves to repair and the button's right next to the Reaves battery

[hollow river]

We usually run 20-24 for regular heroic full clears

[spice spire]

If the person has a piece. And no one needs it, and that shard is good. If you drop them, they can’t get said piece

[hollow river]

10man specific bosses for Normal pieces

At this point

[viscid spear]

[kindred rapids]

??

[viscid spear]

me when it spawned

[hollow river]

We don’t full clear normal as a guild anymore

[muted ivy]

if you remove the chance for failure, you can't fail

[spice spire]

If all zenith people have 4 set and gloves drop is needed for mystic.

You drop 2 zenith people to twenty so it’s a higher chance for mystic

[hollow river]

Just don’t remove your chance to succeed

[spice spire]

1/22<1/20

[kindred rapids]

it's not a higher chance

[hollow river]

Yes it is

[bleak sky]

my man

[hollow river]

What quake just said

[kindred rapids]

no it's not

[viscid spear]

Shame there's not a failsafe that prevents unnecessary tokens from dropping

[hollow river]

Is correct

[spice spire]

IF YOU GET ZENITH AND IT IS DEAD IT IS BAD.

SO YOU DROP ZENITH

[muted ivy]

https://tenor.com/view/kingsman-explode-head-gif-19085723

me rn ^

[bleak sky]

it's not that complicated to understand I feel

[hollow river]

It’s not

[kindred rapids]

The chance of getting tier piece X is 10% times the number of X players in the raid

[hollow river]

Bro

[kindred rapids]

independent of what other players are in the raid

[bleak sky]

Yes. And if a token drops for a fully 4p tier, you lose a tier piece.

[hollow river]

We’re talking about a 100% guaranteed 2 pieces

[muted ivy]

we're not talking about the number of tier pieces dropping

[bleak sky]

so you drop those players.

[hollow river]

If zenith token people DONT NEED IT

[bleak sky]

so they don't get a token they don't need.

[spice spire]

But it’s a 0% for the players it’s bad for if they’re not in

[hollow river]

But Mystic people DO NEED IT

You can drop zenith people

[spice spire]

[hollow river]

For a batter shot at mystic pieces

[kindred rapids]

dropping zenith players does not increase your chances of getting mystic

[hollow river]

Instead of zenith pieces

[spice spire]

My dude

[viscid spear]

[spice spire]

It is an example

[hollow river]

Holy guacamole

It does

[bleak sky]

[kindred rapids]

You don't understand probability if you think it does

[bleak sky]

You don't understand loot it seems

[spice spire]

The players that it’s dead for, are out. So it’s live for every other shard

[muted ivy]

i've successfully derailed the Sin channel now, mb bois

[hollow river]

It’s not about a shot at chance of 3 pieces

[solid venture]

if you have 100% chance of 1 piece of loot with 10 raiders and all of those are on the zenith token, what do you think is gonna drop?

[kindred rapids]

It might reduce variance somewhat but it doesn't increase your expected number of mystic tier pieces

[viscid spear]

Implying we've ever been on the rails, son

[hollow river]

If you stacks ONLY MYSTIC TOKEN CLASSES IN A RAID

What tokens will drop?????

[spice spire]

An example is all that was

[hollow river]

MYSTIC

[spice spire]

Since you were showing density to not understand the basic concept of dropping

People

[kindred rapids]

sure it's an example. Under no circumstances does it actually increase the expected number of usable tier to drop people.

[muted ivy]

it's not a big deal anyways

[hollow river]

[viscid spear]

A group of just Druids, Hunters, and Mages

[spice spire]

I’m clearly explaining this concept poorly.

[balmy condor]

I have 3 apples, 4 oranges, and 3 pears, you pick one at random. What’s the odds you pick an apple at random

[hollow river]

7.7777777%

[muted ivy]

[kindred rapids]

??

[stray mural]

Roughly less than 30%

[viscid spear]

I choose grapes

[kindred rapids]

Point is dropping a player reduces the expected number of tier drops by 0.1

so it evens out

[balmy condor]

Can you answer the question

[stray mural]

But if you have 10 apples you have 100% chance of pulling an apple lets go

[viscid spear]

Apparently there might be an orange or two in there, according to Manwich

[muted ivy]

but if the expected number of live tier drops is bigger than .1 then dropping that player makes it more likely

[spice spire]

That wasn’t even the concept I was bringing up.
Zenny is packed. And stacked and doesn’t need the piece.
You drop zenny players so zenny can’t get a pieces that’s dead. And other shards can

That’s it, that’s the concept

No guarantee it’s ideal

[kindred rapids]

Yes and it doesn't help your expected value.

that's what I'm saying

[balmy condor]

You’re actually trolling this

Holy fuck

[bleak sky]

I was about to start drawing to explain this

[balmy condor]

Fuck the chance at dropping loot for a second, that doesn’t change

[stray mural]

@kindred rapids have you ever seen a class loot another classes tier token

[viscid spear]

So if a group has:
2 Guardian Druids
2 Resto Druids
2 Feral Druids
1 Survival Hunter
1 BM Hunter
2 Frost Mages
What tier drops?

[balmy condor]

If you have 4 people on a token that is worthless, everyone has loot

That gives you 4 people with a chance to drop useless tier

[spice spire]

So you have 4 zenith people in a 20 man heroic.
2 loot pieces drop to zenith.
Both dead.
You have 16 instead, 1 drops to non zenith.
EV = positive

How does that not help?

[balmy condor]

Replace them with people that don’t drop useless tier

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

And you now have less useless tier

[bleak sky]

Echo and Liquid were target looting but that didn't increase their odds bro learn some math

[drifting cloud]

and 60% to get 2 quake

[balmy condor]

Regardless of what the probability is

[muted ivy]

we need a statistics classroom thread

[viscid spear]

[drifting cloud]

yuge value

[kindred rapids]

Lets say you run with 10 mystic players. You get 1 guaranteed mystic drop. If you run with 10 mystic and 10 zenith you get 2 guaranteed tier drops, each with a 50% chance to be mystic so your expected value for mystic tier is still 1.

[viscid spear]

I'm going back to being declined for M+

[spice spire]

Exactly, I’m low rolling for a positive here

[drifting cloud]

just dont lose coinflips

[void karma]

What

[muted ivy]

https://tenor.com/view/wrong-answer-oh-okay-confidence-school-gif-7457759

[balmy condor]

You’re not running 10 vs 20 bro what

[kindred rapids]

If you think about adding a single zenith player they have a 10% chance of looting zenith but they have will add an overall tier piece 10% of the time.

[bleak sky]

Sorry, I hope you have a wonderful day Sir Manwich. Please let me know if you have found the tier in question, that you so graciously asked for, by opening your calculator. Inbetween all the other tokens and gear you have packed for a wonderful day at Sepulcher of the First Ones, you may happen to find the token. They are so wonderfully hard to calculate if one doesnt have a probability and math degree. Hahaha, I understand your plight however.

[viscid spear]

I think we're missing the important information here
||he plays Outlaw||

[kindred rapids]

causing the expected values of other tier pieces to remain unchanged.

[kindred rapids]

This is just a simplified example to help people understand the math

[uneven hamlet]

my brain is too small for the ongoing coversation

[drifting cloud]

yes and its better to just coinflip the extra tier piece than a useless player looting

[spice spire]

Please read.
For the love of all that is holy, please just read the reply above, that’s a real scenario.

I’ll bark

[drifting cloud]

its not a big difference, but its not the same

[kindred rapids]

Lets say you have 20 mystic players and 1 zenith player. The expected number of tier drops is 2.1. The expected number of zenith drops is 0.1. Therefore the expected number of non-zenith tier is still 2.

[drifting cloud]

and when youre dealing with small sample sizes its better to just play it safe

[spice spire]

Okay but you get 2 drops and one goes to zenith

[bleak sky]

or you could drop the zenith player and be guaranteed to not drop a zenith

[spice spire]

?

[bleak sky]

[kindred rapids]

Yes, it increases variance

[viscid spear]

What if Mystic needs more tokens and Zenith has 4pc? Why bring the Zenith?

[kindred rapids]

but not expected value

[bleak sky]

so

you agree with us

[kindred rapids]

that's all I have been claiming

[bleak sky]

that you should drop the useless playeyrs

to not fuck up the tier

and drop useless loot

[balmy condor]

Let’s say you have 100 raiders in the raid at the same time, and they all kill the boss

[subtle tundra]

lets say penis

penis

[muted ivy]

and reducing variance in small sample sizes is good

[bleak sky]

penis

[spice spire]

So you’re being obtuse on a subject you’re in the wrong on, based on verbiage?

[weak plover]

Penis

[muted ivy]

COCK

[kindred rapids]

bringing that zenith player could hurt you by causing you to loot a useless tier but it could help you by allowing you to loot 3 non zenith pieces

[viscid spear]

Manwich at his computer right now

[solid venture]

holy mother of doubling down

[spice spire]

[kindred rapids]

These effects equal out when you look at expected value

[fleet anchor]

I mean there are actually times when leaving people in can push you over a threshold for getting a higher chance of a piece in general and it's still better EV to leave them in

We've had to do this math a few times this tier

[void karma]

So why bring the zenith player? Literally risking a dead drop for no reason

[spice spire]

Sure, if you have 2 zenith people to make 26, yeah, makes sense

But let’s say 5 in a 20 man

[muted ivy]

that 3rd piece tho

[next dune]

Obtuse zenith penis mystic

[balmy condor]

Does this change if it’s a full moon and Saturn is in prograde

Asking because my guild lead is a psychic

[fleet anchor]

Definitely a lot of cases where the risk of the dead drop is lower than the gain of tokens in flex

[spice spire]

I think it matters if Saturn is in pomegranate

[viscid spear]

Naw, Uranus is in retrograde

[fleet anchor]

I mean the whole thing is kinda silly

Arbitrary breakpoints is rarely a good idea

[spice spire]

I agree that there are outlier cases where yes leaving in is a good thing, but this was just an off hand comment that got sent down the ackshually hole

[steep hamlet]

is MFD really essential for this vent build or can I be lazy and take something else for minimal loss

[balmy condor]

Less bad tokens = less chance for bad tokens = higher chance for good tokens

Easy peasy

[spice spire]

It’s pretty essential

[balmy condor]

Play fae

[steep hamlet]

sadge

[balmy condor]

:)

[kindred rapids]

In practice, it could make sense to remove some variance by dropping players. What gets me is the whole discord not understanding probability and claiming it increases your expected value.

[bleak sky]

honestly true bestie

[fleet anchor]

I don't expect people on Discord to be good at statistics

[balmy condor]

Literally no one said that, you just started arguing expected value when everyone was saying you do it to curb the variance

Being obtuse doesn’t make people bad at math

It makes you an asshole

[kindred rapids]

People literally did argue that

I've said the entire time I was talking about expected value

[muted ivy]

it really doesn't matter anymore

[spice spire]

??

[fleet anchor]

I would say that people have a natural tendency to think that reducing variance is better even though it's often not. In some specific case maybe if the EV is identical, reducing variance "for free" is good, but there's plenty of cases where people are inclined to reduce variance despite lowering EV which is often not a great idea.

[kindred rapids]

Agreed, I think if somewhat casual guilds are doing this they are probably just misunderstanding the overall effect on your chance of looting tier.

Reducing variance is such a minor thing it's not worth thinking about for 99% of guilds

[autumn frost]

This is bad statistics. It is treating a single incident as an average. Its like saying the average value of a lottery ticket is a dollar.

[fleet anchor]

I mean you see this with sims too, with people claiming X spec is better because it's lower variance, but the reality is that if the average DPS is even moderately higher, there's rarely a benefit in reducing variance just for the sake of it.

[timid cloud]

All I'm sayin' is...we ran 24 & got a 3rd token, so...doesn't matter...

Just remove tokens that are straight up not needed & call it a day, musical class chairs, if you will.

All of our PPS token is all 4 setted, we still need HMD, WMR, DDL

[muted ivy]

often times reducing the variance in a situation where emotions are involved just makes people feel better

[timid cloud]

We keep getting dead PPS, then what is the point...

[muted ivy]

even if the EV doesn't change or even lowers

[kindred rapids]

people tend to prefer something that's guaranteed

[fleet anchor]

I mean this is obviously the real reason to do it, people get triggered 😛

[bleak sky]

yes

[autumn frost]

Statistics for a single incident vs a population or average need to be treated differently

[bleak sky]

guaranteed loot >>>> having a chance to drop useless loot

[timid cloud]

Fuck, my instant gratification main character syndrome isn't being hit enough what am I gonna do!?

[fleet anchor]

We can equally point to the case where we kept a number of people in, got an extra token, none of them were the bad token.. if we had dropped them we would have gotten 1 fewer token so we gained significantly from leaving them in. But if 2 of them had gotten tokens by bad luck, everyone would be like "TOLD YOU SO" and get upset. 😄

[kindred rapids]

But unless you're actually able to stack raids to the point you can guarantee the tier you want, just bring in ppl who can trade the tier you want and bother with trying to drop ppl who can't.

[muted ivy]

Negative emotions >>>>> outweigh positive emotions

[timid cloud]

No point on getting mad about shit you cannot change, it's pointless.

[bleak sky]

just be happy 4head

[timid cloud]

Exactly.

[muted ivy]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-dance-happy-weekend-party-hard-lit-gif-16583545

[fleet anchor]

Hard to be happy when the loot system is garbage, but we try 😄

[vestal wren]

just be lucky

worked well for me so far, 3 chests from guardian, 2 necks from artificer and 3 rings from lihuvim on heroic

[fleet anchor]

Soulblade Leggings in 3/4 of my vaults, gotten 3 Soulblade Leggings drop. I'm a Soulblade Leggings factory. But we've only seen 1 Shoulder drop ever for Zenith. lol 🤣

[balmy condor]

or you could just replace people with a better token and not rely on luck but apparently that’s bad math yep

[vestal wren]

also my vaults so far

[fleet anchor]

So much repeat loot all the time

For basically everyone

We've been tracking it this tier for our raid

It's actually awful

[vestal wren]

the thing is

if you think about it, if you always get the same loot from a tier boss, thats great

because you can trade tier

but getting 3 times the ring from lihuvim instead of tier

when tier set has a far higher loot chance due to 2 tier pieces of 4 pieces of loot

i find a lot of joy in that so far

[oak sky]

Ive gotten vg ring 3 times

[vestal wren]

guardian chest for me

[muted ivy]

i've gotten like 4 Anduin necklaces

-_-

literally joked about one dropping but with a socket last night, and then it happened.....

[sonic schooner]

Nice vault fuu, i m a bit jealous i didnt get any of those very rare mats

[vestal wren]

like.. its fine. give me lihuvim tier, treasure cache on artificer or even a dagger/tier/or even legs on lihuvim

so like 50% of the loot i can get from this bosses is actually useful (somewhat)

[restive falcon]

you play necrolord on mythic pantheon?

[vestal wren]

enough complained, i hope to get tier set traded today so i get my 4p

[restive falcon]

and if so is the assass faq still correct?

[oak sky]

Yes

[spice spire]

Bless mister fuu. You got this

Also no tier from vault. Lucky drops at least but all normal tier except for lihu gloves

And lfr legs

[fleet anchor]

I was very happy to get a helm from Mythic Pantheon last night that will set in my bags for 2 more weeks until I can Catalyst it lol

[spice spire]

[hollow river]

I have gloves helm and chest ready for catalyst

[oak sky]

Correct for what about necro?

[restive falcon]

still run duskwalkers on pantheon as necrolord

[oak sky]

Yeah

[spice spire]

I wouldn’t

[restive falcon]

run zoldyck?

[oak sky]

I played dashing venth yesterday

[spice spire]

It’s a lot to deal with, and p3 only phase that matters

Yeah I’d run Zoldyck

[oak sky]

Nah i think dusk is good tho

Oh wait

[restive falcon]

hmmmm ig i can craft a zoldyck

[oak sky]

Wrong boss

[muted ivy]

bro

[oak sky]

Duh

[spice spire]

Pantheon

[oak sky]

I was thinking lords for some reason

Yeah for sure pantheon zoldyck

100%

[spice spire]

Lords is 100% dusk

[slow marsh]

eh

i think pantheon is dusk still but

[muted ivy]

what's your garrote CD

[spice spire]

Too long

[oak sky]

You play subt on those bosses

[restive falcon]

should i get rid of Mfd and go Vigor

or keep mfd

[limber lion]

Always MFD as Venth

Always DS as anything else

Never Vigor

[slow marsh]

there's literally no reason to ever play vigor in raid

[restive falcon]

for necro cev

[limber lion]

DS

[slow marsh]

DS

[restive falcon]

necro mythic pantheion

[slow marsh]

jinx

[limber lion]

DS

Necro Skrillex?

DS

Necro Pantheon?

DS

Necro m+?

DS

[oak sky]

Necro dn?

DS

[slow marsh]

always deeper for dn wtf

[balmy condor]

@limber lion daily reminder that venthyr isn’t a real covenant

[muted ivy]

the ultimate mobile game device Nintendo's DS?

[limber lion]

#buffnightfae

[oak sky]

L+ cope+ sub main

[balmy condor]

Sub is better on pantheon dude we live in a cursed timeline

[slow marsh]

every tier has an axcuse why he not playin sin

[oak sky]

[muted ivy]

VENTH ISN'T REAL

[oak sky]

10.0: i dont like the rework

[balmy condor]

How does sub do more 4 target than necro zold sin

What a fucking stupid balancing

[spice spire]

🎰

[slow marsh]

idk blame ya boi

[oak sky]

Because sub is extra p8ggers with the sauce

[muted ivy]

shoulda made Vend also an AoE aura

[slow marsh]

make vendetta a self buff

and it instantly breaks sin

[vestal wren]

i need the pants tho

pants or chest

[limber lion]

@balmy condor gibe string for overwriting umbrella proc chance/uptime

ty

[spice spire]

Have you done lfr?

[limber lion]

:))

umbrella legit dog

[balmy condor]

I’m at work atm

[spice spire]

I went through dark channels to get mine

[oak sky]

Nerf other cds

[vestal wren]

yes

[limber lion]

oh okay have fun

[vestal wren]

3 times

[limber lion]

make those gains

monetary gains

[spice spire]

3rd was the charm for me

[violet hemlock]

I can trade both of those 😄

[vestal wren]

we have 2 warriors

[spice spire]

We run heroic halo Monday

[slow marsh]

can i get a pair of 12s

[balmy condor]

No

[slow marsh]

and some nachos

[spice spire]

Monk - warrior - 2 rogues

[vestal wren]

one of them has a fucking mythic weapon, 2 mythic tier sets iirc and 2 heroic

[balmy condor]

That’s the food court not my problem

[vestal wren]

thats like... 👀 nice

[limber lion]

Only?

[spice spire]

Yo @balmy condor can I get a pair of 14s tho

[limber lion]

[slow marsh]

ZAMNM 14s

[muted ivy]

[spice spire]

Big feet homie

[vestal wren]

we haven't touched mythic yet, so thats kinda insane

[spice spire]

Pops got the 15s tho

[oak sky]

Bro half my guild has alts with tier

[limber lion]

luckernoob

[vestal wren]

but i am happy that both of our warriors have full set

[oak sky]

So fucking annoying

[vestal wren]

means i might get sth traded again in normal

[balmy condor]

Yep

[spice spire]

Ty papi

[balmy condor]

We carry up to size 18

[slow marsh]

wow

[oak sky]

You bigfoot lookin ass mfs

[spice spire]

You have the same amount of tier as quakewar

[slow marsh]

im reporting you for refusing service to a white male

[spice spire]

I played ball with a pair of twins that wore 16s and 19s

[spice spire]

You’re red homie

[bleak sky]

you were kinda blasting lihuvim huh

[fleet anchor]

Hey, I checked in an APL change last night that buffed 4T by about 1% for Assassination 😮

[oak sky]

Holy bruh

[limber lion]

full boss dam

only r4 speed

:(

[oak sky]

Oh did the stream happen

[spice spire]

Yeah they were some big boys.

[slow marsh]

am sad i dont get to play the pantehon prog tonight

[bleak sky]

next reset r1 speed

[slow marsh]

=\

[spice spire]

In colour? Oh buddy, you’re taking it too easy

[bleak sky]

idk watching push

[spice spire]

Or whatever that officer said to push that one time

[balmy condor]

So only….. 6% to go?

[limber lion]

we need to change strats for that

[bleak sky]

ok so maybe not

[oak sky]

Omegaluliguess

[fleet anchor]

But Sub is higher variance

[spice spire]

Venom rush coming in

[limber lion]

to many padders

too

:(

[spice spire]

The darkest of techs

[balmy condor]

[slow marsh]

but sub ease of use cancels out the variance arguement

oximorons the lot of them

[fleet anchor]

2 buttons is hard

[oak sky]

Haha bp go brrr

[slow marsh]

its like DH's complaining about eyebeam rng

like my guy

[fleet anchor]

Although the redesign of Pantheon is probably worse for Sub

[slow marsh]

you literally press 6 buttons for your entire rotation

[fleet anchor]

28% less DPS in P3

More of the fight 2T

[bleak sky]

and yet the spec feels like shit

[spice spire]

“Guys, I pressed storm in a pack, what should I do next?”

[oak sky]

Oh they made you able to overpush on pantheon right

[bleak sky]

ye

[slow marsh]

ik xD

that why i made my hunter my main alt not my dh

[fleet anchor]

Pantheon was changed to 40% push now yes

[slow marsh]

once i found out that meta cdr was a joke

[spice spire]

Remove the alt buddy

[bleak sky]

meta isn't even a cd anymore

[kindred rapids]

Okay I'll bite. Lets say you have a raid of 5 of each token class. What is your probability of looting at least one mystic token? 1 - (15/20)(14/19) = 44.736%. Now lets say you add one more zenith player to the raid, how does your probability to loot at least one mystic token change? It is now 0.9(1 - (16/21)(15/20))+0.1(1-(16/21)(15/20)(14/19)) = 44.360%. So if you drop that extra zenith player, congrats, you've increased your probability of looting a mystic piece by a whopping 0.375%. In the meantime you've also reduced your chances of looting 2 or 3 mystic tokens. Not really worth excluding players over for 99% of guilds.

[oak sky]

Was it ever a cd

[spice spire]

You’re a survival main now

[fleet anchor]

Meta is an AoE CD for Venthyr, that's about it

[slow marsh]

sure it is, how else will you do damge in aoe

[bleak sky]

oh yeah for sure

but for raid it kinda stinks

and 3:15 cd in keys

[slow marsh]

my 226 polearm says otherwise

[spice spire]

Unlucky then

[viscid spear]

Missed a Shroud in ToP

[oak sky]

What about dropping players that have 4p already but cant trade a certain piece

If they steal 5p

Its useless

[gusty adder]

what stats do we value on guardian? (and how do you guys sim for guardian?) :b

[kindred rapids]

that's what I'm saying, assume that extra zenith player is a dead piece

[slow marsh]

crit mast

[kindred rapids]

that's how the math changes

[bleak sky]

you don't sim for guardian because it's a worthless fight kinda

[slow marsh]

just play necro and dot everything while keeping dots on boss too

[hollow river]

Someone went down a google rabbit hole

[limber lion]

damn ya'll are cray

[gusty adder]

Aight, first night here, just wanted to prep accordingly :>

[oak sky]

Also yeah bro why the essay

[slow marsh]

you're good

[subtle tundra]

mad?

[spice spire]

Now imagine a world where each other shard except zenith needs it and not just mystic that was used to oversimplify the situation

[hollow river]

Because sub dumpsters sin and he’s upset about it

[bleak sky]

Dang yo. Sorry that happened or congratulations

[limber lion]

?

[muted ivy]

DONT BITE

[balmy condor]

I’ve had to delete like 6 messages so far because they’re all derogatory this literally isnt worth my time trying to argue about

[slow marsh]

Cev is a musician not a mathematician. Can't be talkin probabilities and stuff

[balmy condor]

I said replace and you just added a player and said look probability small

I actually

Do not have enough time in the day

To vent my anger

[kindred rapids]

I've also said from the start that adding more players that can trade the tier you want is the only thing that really matters.

[slow marsh]

People still arguing over trying to get 4p these days?

[subtle tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/good-soup-good-soup-meme-meme-adam-driver-gif-22924425

[kindred rapids]

But that removing players does not really help.

[subtle tundra]

good soup

[limber lion]

I feel like a math genius whenever I watch Mizkif's Schooled

[slow marsh]

too true

[balmy condor]

That’s literally what I just said dude

I said you should REPLACE players on dead slots

[oak sky]

[next dune]

No, just the one guy is. And people keep responding to him for some reason

[balmy condor]

So you can trade more pieces in slots you need

[oak sky]

If i dont get tier next week im actually quitting

[bleak sky]

Good argument! However:

I did your mom

[oak sky]

Cant deal with having to wait 1 more week for catalyst

[muted ivy]

[oak sky]

Have fun all your parses will be 1 place higher everyone

[muted ivy]

jk ily

[spice spire]

Bro that’s crazy, but I took your mom out to a nice seafood restaurant and never called her again

[ember mural]

[slow marsh]

bro honestly who hasn't these days

[kindred rapids]

This is what I said at the start of this conversation. Obviously if someone can switch to an alt that can trade the tier its beneficial.

[subtle tundra]

eyo

wtf

my mom

...

isnt a public domain

[muted ivy]

penis

[oak sky]

Its great guys my OT arc is coming soon

[subtle tundra]

she has prices

[oak sky]

(Off topic)

[bleak sky]

soon you'll be colorless like the rest of OT

[limber lion]

dw tier useless lmao haha

[oak sky]

Lmao xd acquisition only affects rwf lol

[viscid spear]

I don't recall Manwich being a stubborn troll, it's bizarre

[muted ivy]

not like it's a huge dps gain or anything

[kindred rapids]

Also unless they're actually switching to an alt, just leave them in and bring in the ppl that can trade.

[ember mural]

this is what tier sets do to people

[kindred rapids]

There's no reason to replace.

[muted ivy]

https://tenor.com/view/modern-family-spray-squirt-annoyed-irritated-gif-4445288

[alpine latch]

Is anyone here pushing reasonably higher keys as Sin? 25+?

[muted ivy]

STOP

[balmy condor]

Please stop talking to me

[limber lion]

there isn't a single +25 key completed as sin

so probably not

[alpine latch]

I didn't look, sorry 😦

[viscid spear]

I feel that; had 252 gloves for a while and my 2nd piece was 265 gloves
But then I got 252 helm the following week so
Waiting on the ability to transform stuff into tier

[bleak sky]

varas is your best bet stilll

and varas is playing sub

[alpine latch]

bah

I was really, really hoping Sin would get better in m+ this tier

[limber lion]

Sin is fine

[slow marsh]

i mean it is better than last tier

[bleak sky]

same place as last tier I guess

not suited for high high keys

[alpine latch]

I mean, yeah - I know that. But my group is still going to tell me to go Sub because it's just better

[bleak sky]

[slow marsh]

but everyone else also got better except outlaw so

[oak sky]

0 🧊

[bleak sky]

is your group doing 25s?

[slow marsh]

grats we went from 3rd spec in m+ to 2nd

[oak sky]

Nah blade flurry got buffed bro outlaw is saved

[alpine latch]

That is our goal, yes. At least 1 timed 25 this tier. The highest we did last year was 20s but we also didn't even really attempt higher than that

[bleak sky]

he doesn't even show up in top 20 sin world

[viscid spear]

Well I'm not a super pogger player but Sin is what I know so I go with it

[signal pier]

did a 20PF as a sub, and had a sin in my grp, we rolled the dung

[alpine latch]

I think we may have failed a 21, maybe 2. But the highest we timed were 20s

[bleak sky]

later on in the season 25s are gonna be much easier than they are now so sin will be fine

idk

[spice spire]

Double rogue kinda yuicy in PF ngl

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I know I can always wait. I almost have 2500 as Sub so I'm knocking out 2500 on Sin immediately after

[limber lion]

I +2'd a 20 SD

[alpine latch]

I want to pick up the Sin leggo anyway because I want to be able to swap for bosses when I need to

[limber lion]

and I was top dps

so it's probably fine

[alpine latch]

Yeah but you're legit one of the best rogues there are

[bleak sky]

at 20 stuff still just dies anyway

[signal pier]

our overall was the same in the end, but i bet he played way better than i did

[alpine latch]

I'm like 73% of you on my best day

[limber lion]

Yeh true, but even then it's just to show that the higher you go with a coordinated group, the better your odds are that you'll get more value out of assa

[muted ivy]

AKSHUALLY